Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	elder_n	learned_a	pastor_n	3,338	5	11.0499	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A00639	A defence of the reasons of the counter-poyson, for maintenance of the eldership against an aunsvvere made to them by Doctor Copequot, in a publike sermon at Pawles Crosse, vpon Psal. 84. 1584. VVherein also according to his demaunde is proued syllogisticallie for the learned, and plainlie for all men, the perpetuitie of the elders office in the church.	Fenner, Dudley, 1558?-1587, attributed name.; Stoughton, William, fl. 1584, attributed name.; Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624, attributed name.	1586 (1586)	STC 10772; ESTC S112582	18,117	32

well_o the_o question_n between_o we_o which_o be_v one_o these_o word_n of_o s._n paul_n in_o 1._o tim._n 5._o the_o elder_n which_o rule_v well_o be_v worthy_a of_o double_a honour_n especial_o those_o which_o labour_n in_o the_o word_n and_o doctrine_n we_o say_v this_o place_n mention_v two_o sort_n of_o elder_n one_o which_o do_v only_o govern_v in_o the_o church_n the_o other_o which_o also_o be_v occupy_v in_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o word_n he_o deni_v this_o and_o say_v it_o mention_v only_o two_o sort_n of_o preacher_n some_o which_o preach_v well_o and_o some_o which_o take_v great_a pain_n in_o it_o than_o other_o thou_o see_v the_o question_n between_o we_o good_a reader_n wherein_o thou_o may_v thank_v master_n copquot_n as_o we_o also_o do_v for_o make_v his_o meaning_n plain_n without_o any_o fear_n for_o it_o argue_v a_o good_a courage_n open_o at_o paul_n cross_n to_o justle_v out_o the_o archbishop_n interpretation_n to_o bring_v in_o his_o own_o 626._o the_o archbishop_n understand_v it_o of_o two_o sort_n of_o minister_n some_o that_o be_v minister_n but_o preach_v not_o some_o that_o preach_v and_o labour_v in_o the_o word_n and_o doctrine_n well_o do_v master_n copquot_n consider_v that_o it_o be_v far_o from_o the_o true_a meaning_n of_o the_o apostle_n which_o never_o will_v account_v a_o ignorant_a minister_n unsaverie_a salt_n a_o blind_a watchman_n a_o dumb_a dog_n and_o a_o idol_n shepherd_n worthy_a either_o of_o double_a honour_n or_o the_o name_n to_o rule_v well_o well_o also_o do_v he_o consider_v that_o it_o be_v a_o small_a piece_n of_o government_n to_o read_v a_o few_o prayer_n or_o part_n of_o the_o liturgy_n and_o to_o do_v all_o as_o he_o be_v prescribe_v upon_o good_a reason_n he_o leave_v that_o corrupt_a meaning_n i_o will_v he_o have_v as_o easy_o receyve_v the_o full_a and_o proper_a meaning_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n but_o let_v we_o come_v to_o the_o matter_n in_o hand_n he_o think_v himself_o injury_v that_o he_o be_v charge_v to_o have_v learn_v his_o answer_n of_o the_o jesuite_n which_o he_o have_v he_o say_v from_o holy_a father_n and_o prophet_n if_o you_o bring_v the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o prophet_n for_o you_o we_o will_v put_v our_o hand_n to_o our_o mouth_n and_o give_v glory_n to_o the_o truth_n and_o to_o you_o although_o we_o must_v still_o acknowledge_v that_o we_o read_v it_o in_o the_o jesuite_n paper_n before_o we_o hear_v it_o out_o of_o your_o mouth_n but_o how_o be_v it_o that_o we_o hear_v a_o sound_n of_o prophet_n but_o find_v the_o sentence_n only_o of_o father_n let_v we_o examine_v they_o notwithstanding_o to_o see_v if_o they_o discharge_v you_o from_o be_v the_o jesuite_n scholar_n the_o sentence_n which_o be_v allege_v make_v nothing_o for_o you_o some_o be_v express_o against_o you_o the_o first_o 2._o be_v make_v to_o say_v such_o priest_n be_v worthy_a of_o double_a honour_n as_o do_v rule_n well_o admit_v they_o say_v it_o but_o do_v they_o say_v this_o place_n make_v two_o sort_n of_o preacher_n which_o be_v the_o question_n have_v you_o no_o other_o father_n than_o these_o first_o yes_o augustin_n cyprian_n ambrose_n chrisostome_n these_o be_v worth_a the_o hear_n let_v they_o speak_v s._n augustin_n say_v they_o only_a non_fw-la bene_fw-la praesunt_fw-la which_o do_v not_o labour_v in_o their_o call_n ergo_fw-la the_o place_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o preacher_n only_o not_o of_o govern_v elder_n i_o be_o not_o worthy_a for_o learning_n to_o bear_v doctor_n copquot_n book_n yet_o i_o know_v the_o man_n who_o he_o now_o seek_v to_o confute_v will_v laugh_v at_o such_o a_o reason_n for_o all_o that_o i_o will_v vouchsafe_v a_o answer_n augustine_n in_o give_v no_o more_o for_o the_o interpretation_n of_o these_o word_n which_o rule_n well_o then_o that_o they_o do_v it_o which_o labour_n in_o their_o call_n do_v apply_v it_o no_o more_o to_o preacher_n only_o then_o to_o deacon_n king_n yea_o shipmaister_n who_o all_o must_v labour_v well_o in_o their_o call_n nay_o by_o use_v so_o general_a word_n in_o interpret_n the_o first_o part_n of_o the_o verse_n he_o manifest_o declare_v that_o he_o understand_v it_o be_v general_a to_o both_o sort_n of_o elder_n both_o teach_n and_o unteach_v and_o so_o he_o may_v apply_v it_o to_o which_o soever_o sort_n of_o elder_n he_o have_v occasion_n to_o speak_v of_o the_o same_o answer_n may_v serve_v the_o word_n which_o he_o say_v be_v cyprian_n who_o yet_o can_v not_o be_v find_v either_o so_o much_o as_o to_o allege_v that_o place_n much_o less_o full_o to_o interpret_v it_o and_o if_o he_o think_v that_o cyprian_n be_v such_o a_o enemy_n of_o unteach_v elder_n let_v he_o read_v again_o his_o epistle_n and_o he_o shall_v find_v almost_o in_o every_o epistle_n that_o he_o be_v a_o great_a friend_n unto_o they_o he_o will_v say_v peradventure_o those_o elder_n be_v preacher_n we_o answer_v it_o be_v not_o credible_a that_o in_o one_o church_n there_o can_v be_v so_o many_o as_o he_o there_o name_v and_o paint_v out_o especial_o in_o the_o time_n of_o persecution_n but_o to_o put_v the_o matter_n out_o of_o doubt_n his_o own_o word_n be_v allege_v where_o he_o say_v 22_o he_o with_o the_o elder_n teacher_n and_o reader_n give_v the_o degree_n of_o a_o teacher_n unto_o optatus_n or_o if_o you_o will_v have_v the_o read_n as_o it_o be_v new_o cast_v in_o a_o popish_a mould_n quando_fw-la cum_fw-la praesbiteris_fw-la doctioribus_fw-la lectores_fw-la diligenter_n probaverimus_fw-la optatum_fw-la inter_fw-la lectores_fw-la doctorem_fw-la audientium_fw-la constituimus_fw-la when_o with_o the_o lharneder_n elder_n we_o diligent_o try_v the_o reader_n we_o make_v optatus_n among_o the_o reader_n a_o teacher_n of_o those_o who_o hear_v it_o shall_v make_v yet_o more_o against_o you_o because_o here_o elder_n be_v not_o only_o distinguish_v from_o cyprian_n the_o bishop_n of_o that_o particular_a churchy_n as_o from_o the_o pastor_n &_o from_o the_o teacher_n and_o reader_n but_o also_o from_o some_o other_o unlearned_a elder_n who_o although_o for_o government_n they_o be_v apt_a man_n yet_o be_v not_o so_o learned_a as_o either_o they_o be_v fit_a to_o read_v in_o the_o church_n or_o judge_v of_o those_o who_o can_v read_v and_o pronounce_v word_n and_o sentence_n according_a to_o their_o just_a measure_n and_o proper_a grace_n we_o have_v sift_v cyprian_n let_v we_o look_v in_o to_o chrisostome_n he_o be_v make_v to_o say_v a_o good_a pastor_n lay_v dew_v his_o life_n for_o his_o sheep_n he_o do_v so_o say_v but_o the_o 20_o name_n of_o shepherd_n both_o in_o holy_a and_o profane_a write_v be_v common_a to_o governor_n both_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a as_o well_o as_o to_o teacher_n further_o if_o one_o do_v well_o mark_v the_o course_n of_o chrisostomes_n commentary_n in_o that_o place_n he_o shall_v find_v he_o against_o you_o poet._n because_o when_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o first_o part_n of_o the_o verse_n he_o urge_v no_o necessity_n of_o doctrine_n but_o come_v to_o the_o second_o he_o show_v that_o those_o kind_n of_o elder_n which_o be_v occupy_v in_o the_o word_n be_v most_o to_o be_v honour_v because_o they_o sustain_v great_a labour_n in_o teach_v his_o word_n be_v quid_fw-la est_fw-la autem_fw-la bene_fw-la praeesse_fw-la audi_fw-la dicentem_fw-la christum_fw-la pastor_n bone_fw-la animam_fw-la ponit_fw-la pro_fw-la ovibus_fw-la bene_fw-la igitur_fw-la praeesse_fw-la hoc_fw-la est_fw-la nulli_fw-la parcere_fw-la illorum_fw-la regiminis_fw-la gratia_fw-la maximè_fw-la inquit_fw-la qui_fw-la laborant_fw-la in_fw-la verbo_fw-la &_o doctrina_fw-la ubi_fw-la modo_fw-la sunt_fw-la qui_fw-la dicunt_fw-la sermone_fw-la &_o doctrsna_fw-la non_fw-la opus_fw-la est_fw-la &_o hos_fw-la omnium_fw-la maximè_fw-la iubet_fw-la honorari_fw-la causamque_fw-la addit_fw-la dicens_fw-la nullum_fw-la enim_fw-la laborem_fw-la sustinent_fw-la that_o be_v what_o be_v it_o to_o rule_v well_o hear_v christ_n speak_v or_o tell_v it_o a_o good_a shephearde_n lay_v down_o his_o life_n for_o his_o sheep_n therefore_o to_o rule_v well_o be_v this_o to_o spore_o none_o or_o nothing_o for_o the_o sake_n of_o their_o government_n especial_o say_v he_o those_o which_o labour_n in_o the_o word_n and_o doctrine_n where_o be_v they_o now_o which_o say_v there_o be_v no_o need_n of_o the_o word_n and_o doctrine_n and_o he_o command_v that_o these_o be_v chief_o honour_v and_o show_v the_o cause_n say_v because_o they_o sustain_v much_o labour_n by_o all_o which_o be_v manifest_a first_o that_o the_o first_o part_n of_o the_o vers_n he_o understand_v onli_v of_o government_n for_o give_v the_o full_a sense_n of_o it_o he_o make_v it_o to_o be_v to_o spare_v none_o in_o respect_n of_o their_o government_n &_o so_o make_v with_o we_o elder_n which_o govern_v only_o and_o elder_n which_o also_o teach_v

a_o defence_n of_o the_o reason_n of_o the_o counterpoison_n for_o maintenance_n of_o the_o eldership_n against_o a_o answer_v make_v to_o they_o by_o doctor_n copequot_n in_o a_o public_a sermon_n at_o paul_n cross_n upon_o psal_n 84._o 1584._o wherein_o also_o according_a to_o his_o demand_n be_v prove_v syllogisticallie_o for_o the_o learned_a and_o plain_o for_o all_o man_n the_o perpetuity_n of_o the_o elder_n office_n in_o the_o church_n 1586._o to_o the_o christian_a reader_n i_o must_v gentle_a &_o christian_a reader_n declare_v two_o thing_n for_o justify_v of_o this_o treatise_n follow_v first_o why_o it_o come_v not_o out_o before_o then_o why_o it_o come_v out_o now_o before_o the_o truth_n be_v the_o author_n of_o the_o counterpoison_v never_o can_v get_v the_o answer_n in_o writing_n as_o now_o i_o have_v get_v they_o he_o see_v note_n of_o they_o take_v by_o a_o doctor_n of_o the_o civil_a law_n which_o as_o he_o then_o say_v make_v he_o rather_o think_v how_o to_o contemn_v they_o then_o to_o answer_v they_o so_o this_o be_v the_o cause_n the_o author_n let_v it_o alone_o since_o that_o time_n i_o myself_o have_v fall_v upon_o the_o whole_a sermon_n in_o writing_n so_o that_o it_o seem_v it_o go_v from_o hand_n to_o hand_n among_o those_o who_o delight_n in_o it_o it_o may_v be_v some_o perceyve_v not_o the_o weakness_n of_o the_o answer_n it_o may_v be_v some_o believe_v the_o slander_n and_o lie_v make_v in_o it_o both_o against_o the_o cause_n and_o the_o person_n wherefore_o to_o show_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o cause_n and_o her_o strengthe_n against_o all_o her_o enemy_n new_a or_o old_a continue_a or_o relapse_v to_o clear_v the_o truth_n from_o old_a &_o new_a slanderer_n i_o have_v make_v the_o defence_n follow_v the_o author_n of_o the_o counterpoison_n i_o be_o sure_a will_v take_v it_o in_o good_a part_n this_o defence_n the_o author_n of_o the_o answer_n may_v confute_v if_o he_o can_v thou_o may_v judge_v of_o both_o as_o evidence_n of_o reason_n shall_v lead_v thou_o the_o lord_n grant_v we_o first_o to_o understande_v his_o will_n then_o to_o practice_v it_o ¶_o that_o part_n of_o his_o sermon_n which_o concern_v discipline_n but_o what_o be_v say_v of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n true_o that_o it_o be_v no_o church_n but_o after_o a_o sort_n and_o why_o because_o it_o lack_v discipline_n for_o so_o say_v the_o papist_n that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n but_o secundum_fw-la quid_fw-la after_o a_o manner_n but_o what_o of_o this_o this_o be_v but_o a_o slander_n give_v to_o the_o church_n by_o they_o as_o a_o city_n can_v not_o stand_v without_o wall_n no_o more_o can_v a_o church_n without_o discipline_n yet_o say_v the_o holy_a father_n master_n gualther_n write_v upon_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o corinthian_n for_o lack_v of_o discipline_n no_o man_n ought_v to_o depart_v from_o the_o church_n the_o same_o father_n write_v upon_o the_o epistle_n unto_o the_o galatian_n which_o be_v apply_v to_o james_n king_n of_o sicily_n ego_fw-la si_fw-la quis_fw-la disciplinae_fw-la formam_fw-la interrogat_fw-la in_fw-la omnibus_fw-la gentibus_fw-la eandem_fw-la constitui_fw-la non_fw-la posse_fw-la existimo_fw-la i_o do_v think_v that_o if_o any_o man_n do_v ask_v of_o the_o form_n of_o discipline_n that_o the_o same_o can_v be_v appoint_v in_o all_o country_n and_o nation_n through_o the_o world_n in_o a_o catechism_n print_v here_o at_o london_n not_o long_o ago_o the_o scot_n catechism_n the_o question_n be_v ask_v what_o may_v the_o eldership_n do_v in_o the_o church_n the_o answer_n be_v make_v again_o admit_v unto_o the_o sacrament_n and_o exclude_v from_o they_o according_a to_o god_n his_o word_n now_o as_o concern_v priest_n it_o be_v say_v that_o they_o be_v worthy_a of_o great_a praise_n which_o do_v their_o office_n justly_o and_o saint_n paul_n say_v in_o his_o 5._o chap._n 1._o timoth_n the_o elder_n that_o rule_v well_o be_v worthy_a of_o double_a honour_n especial_o they_o which_o labour_n in_o the_o word_n and_o doctrine_n we_o say_v the_o place_n be_v understand_v of_o the_o preacher_n of_o the_o word_n peter_n verides_n and_o nicholas_n emingius_n in_o the_o 133._o pa._n of_o their_o book_n say_v that_o such_o preiste_n be_v worthy_a of_o double_a honour_n there_o be_v one_o note_v that_o when_o he_o be_v about_o the_o same_o matter_n and_o business_n that_o there_o be_v speak_v of_o he_o affirm_v the_o testament_n of_o ream_n never_o come_v into_o his_o hand_n and_o in_o deed_n i_o dare_v be_v bold_a to_o say_v it_o do_v not_o for_o he_o inteprrete_v the_o place_n that_o they_o which_o labour_n be_v worthy_a of_o double_a honour_n but_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o any_o minister_n save_v only_o they_o which_o preach_v the_o word_n sincerilie_o therefore_o he_o speak_v and_o make_v difference_n between_o preacher_n &_o preacher_n i_o say_v not_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o testament_n of_o ream_n but_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o holy_a father_n or_o prophet_n which_o the_o apostle_n do_v note_n s._n augustine_n he_o ask_v the_o question_n qui_fw-la non_fw-la bene_fw-la p_o 〈…〉_o sunt_fw-la but_o they_o which_o do_v not_o labour_v in_o their_o calling_n chrisostome_n say_v bone_fw-la pastor_n vitam_fw-la ponit_fw-la pro_fw-la ovibus_fw-la a_o good_a pastor_n will_v lay_v down_o his_o life_n for_o his_o sheep_n and_o again_o say_v cyprian_n boni_fw-la &_o fideles_fw-la dispensatores_fw-la duplici_fw-la honore_fw-la digni_fw-la sunt_fw-la s_o ambrose_n say_v praesbiteri_n &_o qui_fw-la bene_fw-la praesunt_fw-la vita_fw-la &_o doctrina_fw-la duplicem_fw-la moerentur_fw-la honorem_fw-la à_fw-la subiectis_fw-la quibus_fw-la praesunt_fw-la presbyter_n and_o they_o that_o do_v gowerne_v well_o both_o in_o life_n and_o doctrine_n do_v deserve_v double_a honour_n of_o those_o subihcte_n who_o they_o rule_v so_o that_o here_o we_o may_v see_v he_o do_v understande_v the_o place_n of_o the_o preacher_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n but_o they_o say_v if_o we_o shall_v so_o expound_v it_o we_o shall_v make_v the_o apostle_n to_o go_v backward_o and_o not_o forward_o sure_o nothing_o less_o for_o this_o be_v the_o sense_n that_o they_o which_o labour_n be_v worthy_a of_o double_a honour_n they_o which_o do_v not_o be_v worthy_a of_o none_o so_o that_o here_o we_o may_v see_v that_o the_o interpreter_n do_v not_o expound_v this_o place_n after_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o of_o ream_n but_o s._n ambrose_n chrisostome_n and_o augustin_n here_o we_o see_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v seem_v to_o make_v two_o kind_n of_o miinster_n the_o one_o which_o be_v occupy_v in_o the_o word_n but_o not_o well_o &_o why_o shall_v that_o seem_v strange_a to_o make_v two_o kind_n of_o preacher_n or_o minister_n for_o my_o part_n i_o wish_v with_o all_o my_o heart_n that_o all_o that_o be_v place_v in_o england_n be_v better_a than_o myself_o and_o that_o it_o be_v so_o through_o all_o nation_n where_o the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v preach_v and_o i_o pray_v to_o god_n that_o the_o gospel_n of_o jesus_n christ_n be_v preach_v throughout_o the_o whole_a world_n the_o apostle_n say_v that_o in_o his_o time_n there_o be_v many_o which_o labour_v not_o so_o much_o as_o he_o i_o thank_v god_n say_v the_o apostle_n i_o labour_v better_a than_o they_o all_o yet_o they_o deserve_v honour_n but_o not_o so_o much_o as_o he_o because_o they_o labour_v not_o so_o much_o as_o he_o for_o god_n have_v not_o give_v to_o every_o one_o the_o self_n same_o gift_n furthermore_o they_o define_v this_o word_n labour_n be_v speak_v to_o all_o as_o well_o that_o be_v able_a to_o do_v most_o as_o those_o that_o be_v able_a to_o do_v least_o therefore_o the_o apostle_n write_n to_o the_o thess_n call_v they_o labourer_n although_o there_o be_v some_o which_o be_v wicked_a amongst_o they_o furthermore_o they_o add_v this_o distinction_n be_v dissolute_a and_o clean_o void_a of_o true_a discipline_n if_o they_o be_v but_o minister_n and_o take_v not_o so_o great_a pain_n yet_o they_o be_v worthy_a of_o honour_n though_o not_o so_o great_a as_o the_o rest_n but_o of_o the_o honour_n of_o widow_n and_o he_o speak_v of_o honour_n of_o widow_n in_o chap._n 5._o ver_fw-la 1_o 2._o honour_n the_o elder_a woman_n as_o mother_n the_o young_a as_o sister_n honour_n widow_n which_o be_v widow_n indeed_o the_o apostle_n say_v rom._n 12.6.7_o see_v then_o that_o when_o we_o have_v gift_n etc._n etc._n and_o again_o in_o epist_n 1._o cor._n cap._n 12.28_o god_n have_v ordain_v some_o in_o church_n as_o first_o etc._n etc._n therefore_o they_o say_v there_o must_v be_v presbitery_n in_o the_o church_n but_o i_o do_v not_o allow_v of_o this_o their_o argument_n as_o they_o have_v elder_n in_o the_o church_n then_o so_o it_o must_v be_v now_o for_o the_o learned_a father_n

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elder_n without_o who_o counsel_n nothing_o be_v do_v in_o the_o church_n which_o by_o what_o negligence_n it_o be_v wear_v out_o of_o use_n i_o know_v not_o unless_o perhaps_o by_o the_o sloth_n of_o the_o teacher_n or_o rather_o their_o pride_n while_o they_o alone_o will_v seem_v to_o be_v somewhat_o the_o second_o be_v manifest_a by_o his_o interpretation_n of_o the_o 1._o cor._n 12._o which_o we_o allege_v he_o have_v set_v in_o his_o church_n governor_n of_o which_o word_n his_o whole_a interpretation_n after_o he_o have_v speak_v upon_o the_o former_a word_n of_o the_o teacher_n be_v sunt_fw-la &_o gubernatores_fw-la qui_fw-la spiritualibus_fw-la retinaculis_fw-la hominibus_fw-la documento_fw-la sunt_fw-la there_o be_v also_o governor_n which_o with_o spiritual_a bridle_n order_n man_n where_o in_o say_v there_o be_v also_o he_o show_v beside_o the_o teacher_n there_o be_v also_o ruler_n and_o such_o as_o rule_v with_o spiritual_a bridle_n not_o with_o the_o civil_a sword_n thus_o the_o father_n be_v heavy_a friend_n to_o this_o interpretation_n it_o may_v be_v notwithstanding_o he_o can_v so_o confute_v our_o reason_n bring_v against_o his_o misinterpretation_n as_o we_o must_v of_o force_n yield_v it_o into_o his_o hand_n for_o trial_n sake_n therefore_o we_o come_v to_o his_o answer_n wherein_o observe_v two_o fault_n which_o be_v general_a than_o you_o may_v the_o better_a deal_n with_o the_o particular_a deceit_n of_o his_o answer_n the_o one_o be_v that_o he_o clean_o pass_v by_o one_o principal_a reason_n which_o be_v make_v against_o he_o and_o it_o be_v this_o if_o the_o apostle_n have_v mean_v to_o have_v make_v two_o sort_n of_o preacher_n he_o shall_v have_v say_v they_o which_o rule_n well_o in_o word_n and_o doctrine_n be_v worthy_a of_o double_a honour_n especial_o those_o which_o labour_n in_o it_o or_o labour_v more_o th●n_v other_o but_o the_o apostle_n have_v no_o word_n nor_o circumstance_n to_o make_v the_o word_n &_o doctrine_n 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17._o ergo_fw-la copiazein_o to_o take_v great_a pain_n can_v not_o be_v assign_v of_o the_o apostle_n as_o a_o cause_n of_o especial_a honour_n in_o some_o sort_n of_o preacher_n we_o will_v now_o expect_v his_o answer_n although_o without_o cavil_n he_o can_v hardly_o answer_v it_o thus_o we_o have_v behold_v the_o common_a virtue_n of_o his_o answer_n let_v we_o look_v into_o the_o proper_a strength_n in_o the_o particular_n to_o the_o second_o reason_n his_o answer_n be_v that_o be_v this_o interpretation_n they_o do_v nothing_o less_o than_o make_v the_o apostle_n go_v backward_o and_o not_o forward_o for_o this_o be_v our_o meaning_n which_o we_o give_v say_v he_o that_o they_o which_o labour_n be_v worthy_a of_o double_a honour_n they_o which_o do●_n not_o be_v worthy_a of_o none_o a_o sound_n answer_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o himself_o and_o touch_v not_o the_o force_n of_o that_o object_v against_o he_o show_v the_o first_o it_o be_v manifest_a by_o that_o which_o after_o he_o say_v that_o this_o place_n be_v mean_v of_o such_o as_o preach_v well_o and_o of_o some_o that_o in_o preach_v well_o take_v more_o labour_n than_o other_o here_o he_o understand_v it_o of_o those_o which_o take_v any_o pain_n and_o set_v they_o against_o those_o which_o take_v none_o so_o he_o make_v the_o high_a degree_n of_o honour_n due_a to_o that_o which_o if_o it_o be_v not_o do_v he_o say_v be_v worthy_a of_o no_o honour_n how_o can_v that_o deserve_v or_o have_v a_o excelencie_n of_o honour_n which_o be_v common_a to_o all_o that_o may_v have_v any_o honour_n in_o their_o office_n beside_o this_o contradiction_n which_o be_v evident_a in_o his_o own_o word_n he_o touch_v not_o the_o force_n of_o the_o objection_n the_o objection_n be_v whatsoever_o sense_n make_v the_o apostle_n in_o the_o second_o member_n of_o the_o verse_n give_v more_o to_o the_o part_n then_o in_o the_o first_o to_o the_o whole_a make_v he_o go_v backward_o nor_o forward_a in_o his_o word_n 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&_o worthy_a of_o honour_n a_o other_o evil_a which_o take_v no_o pain_n worthy_a of_o no_o honour_n so_o that_o this_o have_v no_o degree_n of_o comparison_n which_o be_v manifest_o express_v in_o s._n paul_n word_n can_v not_o so_o much_o as_o resemble_v the_o sentence_n of_o the_o apostle_n much_o less_o interpret_v it_o his_o meaning_n here_o peradventure_o be_v as_o after_o that_o all_o that_o do_v it_o well_o shall_v have_v double_a honour_n but_o they_o especial_o who_o take_v yet_o more_o pain_n in_o do_v it_o well_o this_o his_o meaning_n have_v two_o foul_a spot_n in_o it_o as_o fair_a as_o he_o will_v make_v it_o the_o first_o be_v against_o the_o rule_n of_o reason_n because_o he_o beg_v the_o question_n for_o to_o prove_v his_o denial_n of_o the_o conclusion_n of_o our_o reason_n he_o bring_v this_o meaning_n of_o he_o which_o be_v the_o question_n we_o dispute_v about_o the_o second_o fault_n be_v against_o plain_a deal_n in_o interpret_n the_o scripture_n &_o that_o in_o 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without_o great_a blame_n if_o he_o look_v not_o to_o it_o add_v to_o the_o word_n of_o the_o apostle_n for_o all_o the_o force_n of_o his_o interpretation_n stand_v upon_o a_o addition_n to_o the_o word_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o be_v to_o make_v he_o say_v he_o that_o take_v more_o great_a pain_n than_o they_o which_o preach_v well_n all_o which_o word_n more_o than_o other_o which_o do_v it_o well_o be_v neither_o in_o the_o apostle_n in_o express_a word_n nor_o in_o any_o of_o like_a force_n to_o they_o neither_o have_v he_o or_o can_v he_o with_o any_o syllogism_n conclude_v it_o out_o of_o his_o word_n if_o he_o can_v let_v he_o show_v his_o cunning_n the_o word_n copiazein_o which_o signify_v to_o take_v great_a pain_n will_v not_o here_o help_v he_o for_o it_o do_v not_o include_v a_o comparison_n with_o other_o 5.12_o for_o it_o be_v common_a to_o all_o elder_n much_o more_o good_a preacher_n for_o the_o apostle_n in_o make_v comparison_n say_v en_fw-fr copois_fw-mi in_o labour_n more_o abundant_a and_o so_o by_o add_v the_o word_n of_o comparison_n to_o it_o show_v it_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o very_a word_n itself_o 11.23_o in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o third_o reason_n where_o he_o make_v three_o sort_n of_o preacher_n and_o even_o those_o that_o do_v it_o not_o well_o worthy_a of_o some_o honour_n for_o defence_n he_o say_v he_o see_v not_o why_o such_o as_o take_v pain_n may_v not_o have_v a_o honour_n such_o as_o be_v dew_n to_o widow_n wherein_o first_o he_o trifle_v flee_v from_o the_o matter_n in_o hand_n to_o another_o for_o he_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o his_o interpretation_n give_v not_o a_o single_a honour_n to_o some_o which_o do_v not_o preach_v well_o second_o he_o be_v contrary_a to_o himself_o before_o he_o say_v here_o be_v understand_v only_o two_o sort_n of_o preacher_n good_a and_o evil_n after_o he_o say_v good_a and_o excellent_a now_o three_o sort_n be_v understand_v single_a one_o such_o as_o may_v have_v the_o honour_n of_o widow_n double_a one_o such_o as_o may_v have_v double_a honour_n and_o treble_a one_o which_o may_v especial_o have_v double_a honour_n wherefore_o as_o the_o author_n of_o the_o counterpoison_v say_v before_o so_o i_o say_v again_o this_o be_v dally_v &_o not_o interpret_n and_o what_o soever_o he_o say_v this_o discipline_n of_o he_o be_v dissolute_a ●or_a if_o man_n preach_v well_o they_o be_v worthy_a of_o double_a honour_n which_o be_v more_o than_o the_o widow_n honour_n if_o oteerwise_o they_o be_v worthy_a as_o he_o say_v before_o of_o none_o his_o answer_n follow_v to_o the_o last_o reason_n out_o of_o roma_n 12.6.7_o where_o the_o elder_a for_o government_n only_o be_v make_v a_o proper_a member_n of_o the_o church_n differ_v in_o his_o proper_a action_n from_o the_o teacher_n exhorter_n distributer_n and_o out_o of_o the_o 1._o cor._n 12._o where_o god_n be_v say_v beside_o all_o other_o ministery_n and_o gift_n to_o have_v ordain_v governor_n in_o his_o church_n whereunto_o he_o say_v he_o deni_v the_o argument_n there_o be_v such_o then_o therefore_o there_o shall_v be_v such_o now_o because_o as_o m._n gualther_n say_v we_o must_v first_o prove_v they_o have_v such_o gift_n of_o prophesy_v do_v of_o miracle_n and_o diverse_a such_o like_a as_o be_v there_o mention_v to_o all_o which_o we_o reply_v first_o with_o thanks_n that_o he_o yield_v to_o the_o truth_n &_o grant_v that_o such_o be_v ordain_v of_o god_n in_o the_o second_o place_n we_o will_v prove_v they_o be_v perpetual_a and_o then_o that_o it_o be_v unreasonable_a to_o demand_n of_o we_o to_o prove_v that_o now_o they_o have_v such_o gift_n as_o he_o speak_v of_o we_o maintain_v out_o of_o these_o place_n that_o they_o be_v perpetual_a first_o because_o they_o be_v member_n ordain_v of_o christ_n have_v action_n for_o the_o profit_n of_o the_o whole_a body_n for_o unless_o he_o can_v prove_v god_n have_v repeal_v they_o who_o shall_v cut_v they_o off_o from_o the_o body_n second_o the_o apostle_n in_o the_o 12._o to_o the_o rom._n reckon_v up_o none_o but_o perpetual_a as_o teacher_n exhorter_n ruler_n distributer_n now_o himself_o i_o dare_v say_v will_v acknowledge_v the_o gift_n of_o doctrine_n exhortation_n ability_n to_o distribute_v &_o govern_v with_o the_o action_n proceed_v from_o they_o to_o be_v perpetual_a &_o still_o necessary_a if_o they_o the_o proper_a action_n as_o the_o apostle_n there_o speak_v of_o the_o member_n be_v perpetual_a shall_v the_o member_n be_v momentary_a do_v christ_n now_o give_v doctrine_n 28_o exhortation_n government_n and_o not_o doctor_n feeder_n and_o governor_n or_o do_v he_o give_v teacher_n for_o doctrine_n and_o not_o governor_n for_o government_n 28.19_o further_o if_o the_o church_n daily_o need_v these_o for_o government_n and_o seek_v orderly_o for_o they_o and_o yet_o have_v they_o not_o how_o be_v christ_n present_a with_o his_o church_n to_o enable_v she_o to_o do_v all_o he_o command_v in_o the_o second_o place_n do_v not_o s._n paul_n say_v he_o have_v set_v governor_n in_o his_o church_n how_o can_v any_o man_n set_v they_o out_o then_o they_o will_v say_v he_o say_v there_o also_o he_o have_v set_v apostle_n which_o yet_o be_v not_o perpetual_a it_o be_v true_a there_o be_v mention_v also_o teacher_n and_o helper_n which_o be_v perpetual_a so_o this_o objection_n minister_v we_o occasion_n of_o a_o double_a reason_n the_o one_o by_o equal_a comparison_n as_o the_o teacher_n office_n whereof_o the_o gift_n &_o necessity_n be_v perpetual_a for_o that_o cause_n remain_v and_o the_o church_n ought_v continual_o to_o call_v for_o man_n which_o be_v fit_a for_o it_o because_o god_n have_v set_v they_o in_o his_o church_n so_o for_o the_o elder_n office_n see_v their_o gift_n of_o watchfulness_n ability_n to_o admonish_v and_o to_o advise_v and_o govern_v do_v remain_v the_o church_n be_v continual_o to_o call_v man_n fit_a for_o the_o same_o office_n into_o it_o because_o god_n have_v set_v they_o in_o his_o church_n further_o as_o no_o authority_n of_o man_n can_v have_v remove_v the_o extraordinary_a unless_o god_n have_v deny_v their_o extraordinary_a gift_n and_o call_v so_o no_o man_n can_v remove_v these_o where_o the_o gift_n remain_v &_o a_o ordinary_a way_n of_o examination_n &_o election_n do_v remain_v for_o their_o call_n three_o the_o apostle_n write_v unto_o timoth._n do_v give_v as_o general_a a_o charge_n for_o this_o sort_n of_o elder_n and_o their_o continuance_n as_o for_o the_o other_o which_o be_v ●●aching_v therefore_o if_o you_o can_v prove_v one_o perpetual_a you_o may_v also_o prove_v the_o other_o to_o be_v so_o likewise_o for_o the_o precept_n for_o their_o honour_n their_o reasonable_a immunity_n from_o

accusation_n their_o just_a rebuke_n their_o careful_a ordination_n be_v set_v down_o as_o common_a to_o both_o sort_n though_o as_o in_o the_o first_o of_o honour_n so_o in_o the_o rest_n the_o teach_n elder_n be_v especial_o to_o be_v regard_v last_o they_o can_v find_v no_o commandment_n reason_n or_o other_o ground_n in_o the_o scripture_n why_o the_o pastor_n in_o his_o place_n shall_v be_v perpetual_a but_o we_o will_v bring_v the_o like_a for_o the_o elder_a in_o he_o one_o be_v more_o necessary_a we_o grant_v but_o not_o more_o perpetual_a than_o another_o as_o the_o eye_n or_o the_o tongue_n or_o the_o hand_n be_v more_o necessary_a they_o the_o foot_n the_o right_a one_o more_o than_o the_o left_a yet_o alike_o ordinary_a &_o perpetual_a these_o be_v our_o reason_n to_o prove_v they_o perpetual_a which_o be_v set_v down_o for_o the_o unlearned_a more_o gross_o we_o will_v also_o set_v they_o down_o with_o some_o other_o in_o syllogism_n that_o he_o may_v the_o better_a deal_n with_o they_o out_o of_o rom._n 12._o no_o member_n of_o christ_n body_n have_v action_n for_o the_o profit_n of_o the_o whole_a may_v be_v thrust_v out_o or_o put_v to_o a_o end_n by_o any_o humane_a authority_n the_o elder_n and_o deacon_n be_v such_o member_n rom._n 12.4_o 8._o ergo_fw-la all_o office_n who_o gift_n and_o proper_a action_n be_v ordinary_a and_o of_o perpetual_a use_n they_o be_v perpetual_a the_o office_n of_o elder_n &_o deacon_n be_v such_o as_o who_o gift_n of_o ability_n to_o govern_v &_o distribut_n &_o action_n of_o distribution_n and_o government_n be_v perpetual_a by_o their_o own_o grant_n ergo_fw-la they_o be_v office_n perpetual_a out_o of_o the_o 1._o cor._n 12.28_o no_o office_n which_o god_n have_v once_o set_v in_o his_o church_n may_v be_v put_v to_o a_o end_n by_o humane_a authority_n but_o the_o office_n of_o elder_n &_o deacon_n have_v be_v once_o set_v in_o the_o church_n by_o god_n ergo_fw-la they_o may_v not_o be_v put_v to_o a_o end_n and_o consequent_o be_v perpetual_a whatsoever_o office_n have_v the_o same_o cause_n of_o continuance_n be_v alike_o perpetual_a though_o not_o alike_o excellent_a the_o office_n of_o teacher_n &_o of_o church_n governor_n &_o deacon_n have_v the_o same_o cause_n as_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n the_o continuance_n of_o their_o gift_n &_o of_o power_n of_o the_o church_n to_o call_v they_o 1._o cor._n 12_o ronvere_n 12._o ergo_fw-la they_o be_v alike_o perpetual_a whatsoever_o have_v the_o like_a cause_n of_o cease_v and_o remain_v the_o cause_n of_o remain_v be_v continue_v they_o remain_v as_o the_o cause_n be_v cease_v they_o cease_v but_o the_o office_n of_o church_n governor_n &_o deacon_n with_o the_o office_n of_o apostle_n worker_n of_o miracle_n have_v the_o like_a cause_n of_o cease_v &_o remain_v to_o wit_n the_o will_n &_o ordinance_n of_o god_n in_o continue_v the_o gift_n and_o the_o ordinary_a and_o mediate_v call_v of_o the_o church_n for_o the_o one_o and_o his_o will_n in_o withhold_v the_o extraordinary_a gift_n and_o immediate_a call_n of_o the_o other_o ergo_fw-la they_o do_v by_o the_o like_a cause_n remain_v that_o the_o other_o be_v take_v away_o whatsoever_o have_v the_o same_o general_a commandment_n and_o rule_n of_o examination_n traill_o ordination_n abdication_n honour_n repose_n without_o special_a exemption_n for_o any_o be_v alike_o perpetual_a but_o the_o office_n of_o teach_v and_o unteach_v elder_n and_o of_o deacon_n have_v the_o same_o general_a commandment_n etc._n etc._n 1._o ti._n 5.3_o 10._o 1._o tim._n 5.17.18_o etc._n etc._n ergo_fw-la they_o be_v alike_o perpetual_a whatsoever_o office_n be_v necessary_a in_o every_o congregation_n for_o discipline_n after_o the_o second_o private_a admonition_n they_o be_v perpetual_a otherwise_o the_o remedy_n christ_n have_v appoint_v for_o sinner_n be_v not_o perpetual_a but_o a_o assembly_n of_o governor_n in_o express_a word_n of_o christ_n be_v necessary_a in_o every_o congregation_n for_o discipline_n after_o the_o second_o private_a admonition_n mat._n 18.17_o ergo_fw-la such_o a_o assembly_n be_v perpetual_a whatsoever_o office_n be_v ordain_v for_o ordinary_a and_o perpetual_a government_n of_o the_o church_n under_o the_o law_n &_o have_v continue_v from_o moses_n to_o christ_n have_v as_o the_o other_o office_n of_o teach_v &_o exhort_v be_v new_o increase_v and_o augment_v by_o christ_n to_o the_o church_n under_o the_o gospel_n those_o be_v perpetual_a because_o there_o can_v be_v no_o cause_n so_o great_a find_v of_o alter_v office_n of_o ordinary_a gift_n and_o use_n since_o christ_n as_o be_v between_o christ_n and_o moses_n but_o the_o office_n of_o govern_v elder_n adjoin_v to_o teacher_n and_o exhorter_n be_v such_o ergo_fw-la the_o assumption_n be_v prove_v by_o these_o place_n levit._fw-la 4.13_o 14_o 15._o where_o the_o elder_n as_o bear_v the_o person_n and_o sin_n of_o the_o whole_a congregation_n be_v distinguish_v from_o the_o priest_n &_o the_o magistrate_n jere._n 19.1_o where_o the_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a elder_n be_v distinguish_v 2._o chron._n 19.8.11_o where_o for_o the_o matter_n of_o god_n to_o the_o priest_n and_o teach_v levite_n be_v adjoin_v elder_n hesr_n 10.8_o where_o the_o counsel_n of_o the_o elder_n for_o excommunication_n be_v join_v though_o distinguish_v from_o it_o with_o the_o counsel_n and_o decree_n of_o the_o prince_n touch_v confiscation_n of_o good_n nehem._n 8.5.8_o where_o the_o elder_n in_o govern_v the_o assembly_n be_v distinguish_v from_o the_o priest_n and_o teachinge_a levite_n for_o counsel_n they_o be_v adjoin_v even_o with_o the_o prophet_n 2._o reg._n 6.32_o out_o of_o the_o new_a testament_n the_o place_n be_v pregnant_a and_o many_o act._n 4.5_o &_o 6.12_o &_o 5.21_o act._n 13_o 15._o &_o 18.8_o so_o that_o this_o prove_v the_o ordinance_n and_o continuance_n of_o they_o from_o moses_n to_o christ_n that_o christ_n continue_v they_o and_o augment_v they_o with_o gift_n as_o he_o do_v the_o office_n of_o teach_v and_o exhortinge_v the_o place_n of_o mat._n 18._o tell_v the_o assembly_n and_o if_o he_o hear_v no●_n it_o let_v he_o be_v a_o heathen_a and_o publican_n do_v prove_v it_o for_o by_o use_v express_a word_n proper_a to_o that_o order_n of_o they_o he_o do_v manifest_o establish_v it_o the_o place_n which_o have_v prove_v they_o ordain_v in_o the_o church_n prove_v this_o point_n also_o last_o themselves_o grant_v christ_n ordain_v such_o only_o they_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v perpetual_a now_o if_o they_o demand_n humane_a witness_n what_o can_v they_o have_v more_o clear_a than_o that_o ignatius_n who_o as_o they_o say_v be_v s._n ihons_n scholar_n write_v to_o seven_o church_n in_o every_o epistle_n speak_v only_o of_o such_o office_n as_o be_v ordinary_a and_o perpetual_a bishopp_n elder_n and_o deacon_n do_v say_v as_o have_v be_v allege_v that_o no_o church_n can_v be_v without_o her_o eldership_n and_o lest_o any_o man_n shall_v say_v he_o mean_v teach_v elder_n let_v they_o mark_v that_o he_o define_v their_o office_n to_o be_v a_o senate_n of_o counsellor_n and_o assistant_n to_o the_o bishop_n in_o every_o church_n over_o which_o bishop_n he_o acknowledge_v no_o church-officer_n but_o christ_n without_o which_o bishop_n it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o administer_v the_o communion_n baptism_n or_o perform_v any_o action_n in_o the_o assembly_n his_o word_n be_v these·_a what_o be_v the_o eldership_n but_o a_o holy_a senate_n the_o counsellor_n and_o assistant_n of_o the_o bishop_n and_o a_o little_a before_o the_o elder_n be_v as_o the_o senate_n of_o god_n and_o the_o hand_n and_o sinewe_n of_o the_o apostle_n of_o christ_n without_o these_o the_o elect_a church_n be_v not_o no_o congregation_n of_o saint_n without_o these_o epist_n 2._o ad_fw-la tralles_n here_o the_o office_n be_v define_v as_o consist_v only_o in_o government_n that_o in_o the_o sacrament_n they_o may_v only_o assist_v the_o bishop_n and_o not_o administer_v they_o or_o do_v any_o public_a action_n be_v manifest_a by_o these_o word_n it_o be_v not_o lawful_a with_o out_o a_o bishop_n either_o to_o baptise_v or_o to_o offer_v or_o to_o prepare_v the_o offering_n in_o the_o communion_n or_o perfect_v the_o gift_n or_o distribution_n but_o that_o which_o seem_v good_a to_o he_o according_a to_o the_o good_a pleasure_n of_o god_n that_o what_o soever_o you_o do_v may_v be_v safe_a and_o sure_a ignat._n epist_n 2._o ad_fw-la smyrnaeos_fw-la and_o in_o the_o same_o epistle_n therefore_o let_v all_o thing_n be_v do_v of_o you_o according_a to_o good_a order_n in_o christ_n let_v the_o lie_v man_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o deacon_n epitilem_fw-la the_o deacon_n to_o the_o elder_n the_o elder_n to_o the_o bishop_n the_o bishop_n to_o christ_n as_o he_o to_o his_o father_n in_o the_o time_n of_o cyprian_a they_o remain_v ambrose_n when_o they_o