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A31663 An impartial account of the Portsmouth disputation with some just reflections on Dr. Russel's pretended narrative : with an abrigdment of those discourses that were the innocent occasion of that disputation / by Samuel Chandler, William Leigh, Benjamin Robinson. Chandler, Samuel.; Leigh, William.; Robinson, Benjamin, 1666-1724. 1699 (1699) Wing C1933; ESTC R24745 96,620 125

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we have a rule Now Mr. Chandler if you please you may take the Part of an Opponent And prove our practice to be agreeable to Scripture Mr. Chandler turns Opponent Arg. 1. Chand Visible Church Members ought to be baptized But some Infants are visible Church Members Therefore some Infants c. Rus. Adult believers may but not Infants Rob. What 's this to the purpose we are upon Which of Mr. Chandlers propositions do you deny Rus. Let him repeat his Argument Chand Visible Church Members ought to be baptized according to Christ's Commission But some Infants are visible Church Members Therefore c. Rus. I deny the Major Chand That all visible Church Members are to be baptized according to Christs Commission I prove thus If there be no Precept or Example in all the Word of God since Christ ordain'd baptism that makes any other ordinance the visible means of encring a Person into the visible Church then visible Church Members ought to be baptized But there is no c. Therefore Rus. This is to say Because they are Members therefore they are to be made Members Chand No. Because they are Members they ought to be solemnly Recogniz'd as Members Like the Coronation of a King He is a King before he is Crown'● but he is Crown'd that he might be own'd as King VVill. If baptism be the initiating ordinance into the Church then they were not Church Members before Chand I say baptism is the solemn investing sign Rus. That baptism is an initiating ordinance I grant Rob. This Argument was brought to prove that visible Church Members ought to be baptiz'd VVill. I deny that Infants are visible Church Members in their Infancy L. I 'll prove that some Infants are Church-Members in their Infancy Suffer little Children to come unto me for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven Mat. 19.14 Hence I argue Those that belong to the Kingdom of Heaven i. e. the Church-Militant here upon Earth are visible Church-Members But some Infants belong to the Kingdom of Heaven i e. The Church-Militant here on Earth Therefore Will. I deny the Minor That text proves it not L. If the Kingdom of Heaven cannot be taken any otherwise in this Text to make good sense of the Text then it must be so taken i. e. For the Church-Militant here on Earth But it cannot be taken any otherwise to make good sense of the Text. Therefore c And this I prove by an Induction of particulars There are various acceptations of this Expression The Kingdom of Heaven in the Word of God Sometimes it signifys The Laws and Promises of the Kingdom it doth also signify the Graces by which we observe those Laws and believe those Promises Thus it 's represented by a grain of Mustard-seed Sometimes the Kingdom of Glory And sometimes it signifies the Church-Militant Hence therefore I thus argue If in this place it can neither signify the Laws and Promises of Gods Kingdom nor the Graces by which we observe those Laws and Embrace those Promises nor the Kingdom of Glory then it must signify the Church-Militant here upon Earth But it cannot signify either of the former Therefore it must signify the last viz. the Church-Militant Will. I deny the Minor I say it signifys the Kingdom of Glory L. If it be nonsense so to understand the words then they are not so to be understood But its nonsense c For then the Kingdom of Glory must consist in part of poor little weak things such as Infants are Whereas after Death all are perfect in the Kingdom of Glory whatever they are here on Earth Will. I thought it had been to such belongs the Kingdom of Heaven Chand Mat. 19.14 In the Greek it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of such is the Kingdom of Heaven L. That is of such it consists in part If we mention the Kingdom of England or France and say of such is the Kingdom c. It 's to be understood In part it consists of these Will. I deny that the Visible Church in part consists of these If they are neither Members of the Universal Church nor of a Particular Church then the Church doth not in part consist of these But c Therefore c. L. I Answer Now you relinguish my Medium But farther If they are Members of the Church at all then they are Members of the Universal Church visible But they are Members of the Church Therefore c. VVill. I deny the Minor i. e. That they are visible Members of the Church L. There are two sorts of Members of the Universal Church There are Members in foro Ecclesiae and Members in foro Caeli In which of these senses do you deny they are Members of the Church VVill. If by the Church you mean the visible Church I deny your Minor Here for about four or five lines there is great confusion in what our scribes have written But this I take to be the sense of it L. If they are Members of the Church in any sense then they are Members of a Particular or the Universa● Church and if of a Particular then of the Universa● which includes it and therefore they are Members of the visible Church But they are Members of the Church in some sense and for Proof hereof I return to my Argument which you have not been able to Answer Of such is the Kingdom of Heaven i. e. The Church Militant VVill. I distinguish as to the Kingdom of Heaven It 's there meant of the Kingdom of Glory L. If of the Kingdom of Glory then it 's nonsence But by the way the Kingdom of Glory either is put for the Happiness or Subjects of the Kingdom of Glory If the Happiness then the words must run thus Of such little Children is the Happiness of the Kingdom of Glory If the subjects then thus Of such little Children are the subjects of the Kingdom of Glory Now neither of these is sense Therefore cannot be meant but my first interpretation stands good still VVill. I distinguish between a right Title and Possession Here is a vacancy Three things It 's true faith gives a right to baptism according to the Commission a profession of that faith gives a right to the Administration of that ordinance and it 's the Commission that authoriseth the Administrators Rus. This Text you produce hath no Relation at all to the Commission nor is Baptism in the least intended in the Text. L. Mr. Russel I 'll propose this question to you Whether both what Christ said and did together with what the Apostles said and did be the best explication of Christs Commission And then whether I may not argue from Christs own Words For visible Church Membership and so for baptism Rus. I do allow that what Christ said and did and what the Apostles said and did is a very good interpretation of the Commission of our Lord. And I do say that only adult Persons are intended in the
Commission And that the Apostles never did baptize any other than adult believers L. Then I hope we may argue from Christs own Words Did he speak pertinently or impertinently If pertinently how comes he to say of such is the Kingdom of Heaven unless he meant the visible Church which alone makes sense of the Text. But is this an Answer to my Question to say that Adult believers are only intended in the Commission Rus. Yes if your question relate to water baptism L. If the Kingdom of Heaven in part consists of Infants then Infants ought to be baptized But c. Therefore c. Rob. Pray Mr. Russel which of Mr. Leighs propositions do you deny L. Give me an Answer directly Rus. I demand an Exposition What do you mean by the Kingdom of Heaven L. I mean the Church and Kingdom of God here on Earth Rus. I deny your Minor L. I prove it from the forecited Scripture If by the Kingdom of Heaven Mat. 19. is signified the Church visible here on Earth Then Infants do in part make up the Church But c Therefore c. Rus. I deny your Minor L. If we must make good sense of Scripture then it must so signify But c. Rus. I deny the Consequence of your Major L. If the Kingdom of Heaven cannot be taken in any other signification to make good sense of it in that place then it must so be taken But it cannot c Therefore Rus. I deny your Minor L. If you can produce no other good Interpretation that can make good sense of that Scripture Then c. Rus. I deny the Consequence of your Major It doth not follow because I cannot do it that therefore it cannot be done L. Then I say if neither you nor any other person can produce any other good Interpretation that can make good sense of that Scripture Then c. Rus. Is this a good way of arguing If it be then it was so in me as well as you Rob. Mr. Leigh It was not fair therefore not allowed them You must not put the Proof upon the Respondent Leigh I was not driving them to Proof but going to prove my Assertion by an Induction of Particulars as I have already done and that I shall do again If the Kingdom of Heaven here signifys neither the Laws nor Promises of the Kingdom nor Graces by which these Laws and Promises are observed and embraced nor Jesus Christ's Management of his Kingdom nor the Glory of Heaven nor the Subjects of Glory then it must signify the Church-Militant here upon Earth But it signifys neither of the former Therefore the last Rus. I deny the Minor L. I prove it by a Recapitulation of those Particulars Of such little Children are the Laws and Promises of the Kingdom of such are the Graces by which we observe and embrace them of such is Christs Management of his Kingdom of such is the Kingdom of Glory of such is the Happiness or Subjects of Glory Now is there any good sense in all this Rus. It s meant of the Kingdom of Glory L. By the Kingdom of Glory you must mean either the Happiness or Subjects of the Kingdom If it be taken for the Happiness of the Kingdom of Glory then I ask whether little Children are the Happiness of Heaven If for the Subjects then I ask whether of such consists the Subjects of the Kingdom of Glory when every one belonging to that Kingdom i.e. as distinct from the Church-Militant immediately upon his expiring is compleat even an Infant 3 days old Rus. This is very uncharitable to exclude Infants from Heaven I would rather incline to say and I am sure the contrary to it Mr. Leigh can never prove that all Infants belong to the Kingdom of Glory than that none do L. Yes we know your Judgment of that matter well enough But you wilfully misrepresent my sense I do not say that none who dy Infants go to the Kingdom of Glory but that none are Infants when they come there But the Text says Of such is the Kingdom of Heaven This therefore is what I assert that it is absurd to say that the Kingdom of Glory is in any part of it made up of weak imperfect things as little Infants are And therefore that the Kingdom of Heaven here spoken of must mean the Church-Militant here on Earth which is in part made up of such Here Mr. Russel was silent for a considerable time Rob. What Mr. Russel have you no reply to make to all this Pray if you have any thing to say let us hear it Otherwise be so kind as to tell the People you can give no Answer that we may go on to some what further Rus. My Answer is this That whereas you have undertaken to prove that Infants are the Subject● of Baptism according to Christs Commission you bring a Text for it that hath neither the word Baptism in it nor the Commission of our Lord. L. Very well then If we prove from any Text of Scripture the right of Infants to Baptism it must not be allowed unless we find it in the close of the Evangelists where is what you call the Commission or unless the word Baptism be in it Rob. Mr. Russel They are not obliged to have the mention either of Baptism or the Commission of our Lord in the conclusion of every Syllogism They had it in the first They then told you That such as were Members of the Church-Militant on Earth were to be Baptiz'd according to the Commission of our Lord. And this was the case of some Infants You denyed any Infants were Members of Christs Kingdom or Church-Militant here on Earth and to prove this they brought that Text. And I suppose the whole company was satisfy'd that it doth sufficiently prove what it was produced for And now you dare not deny the Major if you do I doubt not but they are ready to prove it VVill. If Church Members have been denyed Baptism then Church-Membership is not the ground of Baptism but c. L. I deny the Minor VVil. If Church-Members came to Iohn to be Baptized and were denyed then Church-Membership is is not the Ground of Baptism But c. L. I deny the Minor VVill. I prove it Mat. 3. When he saw the Multitude and many of the Pharisees and Sadduces come to his baptism he said to them O Generation of Vipers c. L. I deny that they were de jure Church Members whatever they were de facto Their being a Generation of Vipers is sufficient to prove they were not Church Members De jure And we are speaking of rightful Church Members VVill. I have proved that Church Members were denied baptism L. I deny it and distinguish between Church Members De jure De facto Will. I will not meddle with your distinctions Rob. And can you think that the word Church-Members cannot possibly admit of more senses than one L.