This place proueth not that the Priests lips euer did keepe knowledge though it be thus read in a Cōmandement but teacheth what his duty was to doe For the next verse following telleth vs what the priests then were But you haue departed out of the way and haue scandalized many in the Law Vers 8. Therefore he made them contemptible and base vers 9. 2. This text maketh for euery Priest without exception but will they haue euery Priest in his teaching to be without error and his word the rule of faith 3. This telleth vs what the people are to seeke for to wit the Law but this as before is proued was written X. Proposition That the Church is no where in Scriptures taken for the inuisible Church Confuted by their owne Bible Heb. 12. 23. ANd the Church of the first borne which are written in Heauen which in the former vers 22. he calleth Mount Sion the city of the liuing God heauenly Ierusalem and the assembly of many thousand angels Is this the visible or inuisible church doth mans eye looke vpon this heauenly company Reu. 14. 1 3. There is the Lambe with his company redeemed from the earth vpon Mount Sion hauing his Fathers Name written in their foreheads Mat. 16. 18. Rom. 8. 29. Eph. 1 22. and 5. 23 32. Col. 1. 18. 1 Pet. 2. 5. Reuel 21. 10 In which places is to be vnderstood the inuisible Church and wheresoeuer it is vnderstood of the mysticall body of Christ it is there the inuisible Church Contraried by Antiquitie The Ancient Fathers found in Scripture an inuisible Church Saint Augustine in Psal 92. concion 2. part 2. of the same Psalme maketh onely the elect from Abel to the worlds end to be the Church this Church is inuisible to man Saint Cyprian saith in Epist 55. That those are the Church which abide in the house of God But can man see who will abide therein Origen in Math. 16. 18. vnderstandeth the Church of such as fall not away but doe ouercome and are not ouercome of those gates of hell but such are knowne onely to God and not discerneable by men nor seene with bodily eyes Saint Gregory in Hom. 19. in Euang. calleth the Catholike Church the Lords Vineyard from iust Abel to the last of the elect in the end of the world Doth Gregory vnderstand this of the visible Church What mortall eye can see this Church of the Elect On Iob cap. 9. in l. moral 35. Hee writeth that Christ and the Church the Head and the Body are one person But who euer saw this with his eyes Gregory therefore found in the Scripture an inuisible Vineyard and Church of Christ Gainesaid by their owne men Caietan taketh that of Mat. 16. 18. for the congregation of the faithful Ferus expoundeth it of the Elect now the Elect are visible to the eye Our Aduersaries alleadge many places to proue the Church most properly to bee called visible as Num. 20. 4. 1. King 8. 14. Act. 20. 28. and 15. 3 4. and 18. 22. and many other Scriptures Answ 1. All these are of particular visible Churches and not vnderstood of the Catholike the former we affirme to be visible but not this 1. The places contradict not this which we hold that the Church somewhere in holy Scriptures is taken for the inuisible Church which they by bringing places to proue a visible Church doe not gainesay XI Proposition That the Church is euer gloriously conspicuous to the world What wee meane when we say that the Church is sometime hidden WHen we speake of an inuisible Church we meane the Church Catholicke in our Creede which we doe beleeue and doe not see nor can see for faith is the ground and euidence of things not seene Heb. 11. 1. also faith and sight are opposed 2. Cor. 5. 7. but wee onely beleeue the Catholicke Church as in our Creed we confesse and therefore is it inuisisible partly in heauen triumphing partly here on earth militant knowne onely to God 2. Tim. 2. 19. and not discerned of men because they be only the Elect of God This is the Church spoken of Heb. 12. 22 23 24. Rom. 2. 28 29. Mat. 16. 18. Eph. 1. 22. and 5. 23. Col. 1. 18. and the hidden ones Psal 83. 3. Besides this Catholicke we hold also a particular Church visible For beginning in Paradise we may finde such a visible Church till the flood from thence to Moses from him vnder whom it mightily increased into thousands of families till the same was planted in Canaan where it became a Nationall Church and neuer wanted some degree of visibility in more or fewer of the members thereof vnto the comming of Christ who taught the people and gathered Disciples which professed him and after his Ascension were the first of those which after were called Christians all being then together in Ierusalem for a time and the only visible Church of Christ vpon earth which visible Church through persecution began to be scattered abroad and the Apostles and Teachers being also dispersed this one Apostolicall Church spred farre and wide into the world neuer being any more entire at once in one place as before it had beene in Ierusalem but from that time to this day hath beene and is in seuerall Congregations which are called Churches euery one bearing the denomination of the whole because all of them doe make but one Church as also for that euery one of them should liuely represent that first Church in Ierusalem from whence these other came into the world in doctrine of the Apostles fellowship Sacraments and prayer with one accord Act. 2. 42 46. This Church taken in a generall notion for all those that professe Christ any where in any sort hath euer beene visible in the world also to the world to Iewes Turks and Pagans But thus taken in so superficiall bare and naked apprehension it comprehendeth all sorts of Assemblies professing Christ whether purely or impurely Orthodoxally or Heretically vniformely or Schismatically and so hath seuerall names Sometimes taken from the City where such Assemblies be as the Church of Ierusalem Antioch Corinth Ephesus Philippi Thessalonica and Colosse Sometime according to the Countries as the Churches of Galatia So we say now The Church of France of England Scotland Sometime from the Sect-Masters names as Arians Macedonians Eutychians Nestorians Donatists as now Brownists Separatists c. Sometime from the People according to their Countrey where they were borne though dwelling elsewhere as wee haue here in London and some other coasts of England the Dutch the French and Italian Churches Sometime from the Coasts as the East and West Church Sometime from the Language vsed in the publike worship as the Greeke Church and the Latine Church Sometimes from the opinions held as Anabaptists Vbiquitaries and Familists And thus come we and our Aduersaries to be diuersly named though we be all in generall called Christians yet wee call them that are yoaked vnder the B.
Dutie common to other of inferiour ranke This word feede therefore will helpe them nothing for the Supremacie The word my pulleth downe Peter from Soueraignty For first Peters charge is to seed not his owne but Christs sheepe So then Peter is not a Lord but a Seruant-Shepheard to feede the chiefe Shepheards flocke as Peter himselfe calleth Christ who knew no other chiefe Shepheardship either in himselfe or in any other but in Christ 1. Pet. 5. 3. And wee reade how the flocke is called Gods Act. 20. 28. 1. Pet. 5. 2. but no where Peters As also by Christ himselfe wee are taught that there is but one fold and one Shepheard of that fold to wit but one generall Shepheard and that is he himselfe Ioh. 10. 11 14 16. and not Peter and that by Peters owne acknowledgement in the fore-quoted place 1. Pet. 5. 3. The word Lambes or Sheepe considered with the rest of the words and as it is commonly taken wipes away Peters Supremacie For first the words are not spoken vniuersally Feede all my Lambes as if hee had been charged with all of them For this had beene a charge First which hee could neuer haue performed secondly which he neuer did attempt to performe Now God neuer imposed any impossible charge vpon him and Peter would not haue been found faithlesse But it is spoken indefinitely to feed here and there whom he could and where hee could at any time Therefore hee is not here the vniuersall Bishop Secondly Lambes or Sheepe are not Apostles Prophets Euangelists and Pastors These are neuer so called but in relation to Iesus Christ onely Mat. 26. 31. and neuer in reference to any man But if vnder these Lambes and Sheepe bee comprehended all and euery one of the Church and flocke of Christ then by their account all the Apostles and the rest must bee sheepe and Peter their Shepheard and so a Shepheard ouer shepheards Which vaine conceit without proofe who can giue credit vnto And yet Bellarmine makes a difference betweene Lambes and Sheepe The Lambes forsooth must bee the Laitie and the Sheepe the Apostles when as the words are vsed indifferently Math. 10. 16. Luk. 10. 3. Act. 8. 32. And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christ though he vse two words yet doth not make any such difference For the two words to feede are applyed also indifferently to either of them So that taking sheepe for the Apostles Peter must not onely rule as they would haue it but also teach the Apostles when Apostles are all immediately from Christ and taught of Christ and by his holy Spirit Galat. 1. 1 12. and needed no instruction from man in the worke of the Ministerie Math. 10. 20. Ioh. 14. 26. and 16. 13. Thus we see there is not the least footing in any word of this Text for Peters Supremacie aboue all other on which yet they settle it But if here Peters Supremacie could bee proued yet what 's this to the Pope He feeds not by preaching Christs Lambes but rules or rather rauages like a roaring Lyon ouer Christs Sheepe hee is like a Lambe but speakes like the Dragon Reuel 13. Lastly that here is no Headship giuen to Peter it appeareth in verse 17. where it is said that vpon Christs third time questioning him he was grieued Now may wee reasonably suppose if Peter had conceiued of Christs words as Popes doe that a Supremacie was therein bestowed vpon him that hee would haue beene grieued Doe men grieue at high preferments offered especially hauing contended for the same as the Apostles had done Who seeth not therefore that Peter perceiued no such glorious preferment nor high Dignitie out of any thing that Christ here spoke as our Aduersaries doe From all this it is cleere that Peter from hence hath no Headship aboue others XX. Proposition That Peter was the onely Vicar of Christ here on Earth Confuted by their owne Bible FOr Vicaradge vnto Christ properly so taken it teacheth vs That Iesus Christ going out of the world promised to substitute in his roome not any Peter nor any man but such a one as could bee euery where with his Church in his bodily absence which was his holy Spirit Ioh. 15. 26. 16. 7. And by this would hee be euer with them Math. 28. 19 20. 18. 20. to remember them of all things Ioh. 14. 26. to guide them Ioh. 16. 13. and to dwell with them Ioh. 14 17. Rom. 8. 9. which a Peter could not doe Secondly it telleth vs that according to this promise when Christ ascended hee sent downe his Spirit Act. 2. by which Gods people are still guided and taught Rom. 8. 1 5 9. 11 14 26. 1. Cor. 2. 10 12. 1. Ioh. 2. 20 27. which beareth witnesse to our spirits that wee are Gods children Rom. 8. 16. Gal. 4. 6. by which wee are sealed to eternall life 2. Cor. 1. 12. Ephes 1. 13. Thirdly it declareth vnto vs that when Christ ascended hee was mindfull of his Church and gaue gifts vnto men Some to Ephes 4. 12. be Apostles some Prophets some Euangelists some Pastors and Teachers but among these no one generall Vicar or Head ouer all If there had beene such a one Paul had as good reason to haue mentioned him as the rest But his Vicar generall was Gods Spirit and no man And note that the Apostle shewes a threefold vse of these afore-named 1. For that they were the consummation of the Saints 2. For the worke of the Ministerie 3. For the edifying of the body of Christ Now if a generall visible Vicar on earth had serued for any of these purposes hee had been giuen of Christ but he needed not and therefore this needlesse gift was not giuen to any As for a supply of Instructers Guides and Lights in the Church Militant wee deny not but Christ hath left many Vicars and doth still send dayly Embassadours to his Church to reconcile vs to God And so our Bishops and other Ministers of the Church by the Keyes of power and knowledge open the way of Heauen to Christian people which they doe in Christs stead and therein are his Vicars or Deputies lawfully called But this Vicaradge is too small a portion for Sir Pope Contraried by Antiquitie Tertul. de violand Virgin The Lord sent the Holy Ghost that mans mediocritie not being capable of all things at one time might by little and little bee directed orderly disposed and brought to perfection by that Vicar his holy Spirit Also in his Booke de praescript hee saith that Christ taken vp into heauen sent the power of his holy Spirit as his Vicar to conduct the faithfull Wee see in these dayes who was held the Vicar of Christ Gainesaid by their owne men Aquinas in Opusc 20. calleth all the Apostles the Vicars of Christ Tolet. in Ioh. 20. 21. saith that Christ instituted his Apostles his Vicars How then was Peter his Vicar for their cannot be a Vicars Vicar If Peter was then the
erre in this way hee doth not say The Church or the learned Church men or men in holy Orders for are these fooles but wayfaring men though fooles shall not erre Here is a promise that the simple Laytie shall not mistake their way which Popish Teachers cannot abide to heare of Neither shall any vncleane passe ouer this way but they teach that their Church Catholike consists of elect and reprobate both good and bad cleane and vncleane Therefore in a spirituall sense the words are to be vnderstood of the onely sanctified by Gods Spirit here trauelling in this World as wayfaring men and though esteemed as fooles yet are so guided in their holy profession as they shall not bee suffered to wander out of the way of life neither totally nor finally But he will say If these shall not erre then much lesse shall the Church True who denies it we doe not say that all the whole Church and all the holy that euer haue been such as this place speaketh of haue all erred this thousand yeeres as the Gagger beares his Reader in hand making him beleeue that we so teach Here the Prophet speakes of the Lords redeemed separated from the vncleane in a spirituall estate in and by Christ but in our dispute we speake of the visible Church of cleane and vncleane good and bad and of a mixt company III. This verse and the whole chapter speakes in the first place of the returne from Captiuitie which the Prophet doth expresse in figuratiue speeches to set out the comfort thereof most liuely and so it is nothing to the purpose for which the Gagger brings it In a high sense it sets out the spirituall happinesse of the redeemed by Christ partly here begun and fully to be perfected in the day of the Churches perfect redemption IV. It speakes not here of the Churches teaching but rather of the Saints trauailing towards Heauen But the word not erre made the Gagger thinke he had obtained his purpose and an expresse text for not erring in Doctrine when the words speake of a way a high-way of trauailing men and others not passing ouer it and of the redeemeds walking vers 9. Then being vnderstood of not erring in life it cannot be taken absolutely for error of life is in the best but they erre not to finall destruction Ephes 5. 27. That hee might present it to himselfe a glorious Church not hauing spot or wrinkle or any such thing but that it should be holy and without blemish Answ 1. Our dispute is of the visible Church and mixt company this is to be vnderstood only of the body whereof Christ in the most proper sense is the Head and Sauiour vers 9. which hee nourisheth and cherisheth vers 29. betweene whom and Christ thereis such an vnion as it is called a great Mystery vers 32. which cannot properly be meant of visible Churches consisting not onely of Elect but also of Reprobates who are not clensed nor nourished or cherished as members of his body nor made euer glorious II. The Apostle speakes heere of the Church either as triumphant or if as militant then as it is in preparing and as it shall bee hereafter in Heauen for in this life it is not altogether spotlesse without wrinkle or blemish Cant. 1. 5 6. III. This place doth serue rather to prooue her puritie in life then infallibilitie of iudgement in teaching this latter is hence farre fetched the former may seeme more apparant But will any beleeue that Gods Church for life and conuersation is in this life without spot wrinkle or blemish 1. Tim. 3. 15. The Church of the liuing God the ground and pillar of truth Because this place is much vrged by others and the last of this Gaggers I will more fully make answer vnto it Hence hee would conclude that the Church cannot erre he meaneth the Church of Rome the Pope at least the virtuall Church for they defend not now any Church from errour but their owne But this they can neuer proue out of the place I. Saint Paul wrote to Timothy how he should behaue himselfe in the Church 1. Tim. 3. 14. So his Epistle that is the Apostolicall written Word was made to be Timothies rule to guide him from erring and not the Churches determination S. Paul for all this his praise of the Church sent him not to Her but prescribed him a written Word to direct him in gouerning of her which hee would not haue done if by calling the Church the pillar and ground of truth he had meant she could not haue erred II. Saint Paul speaketh thus of the then present Church of Ephesus where Timothy was chap. 1. 3. built vpon the foundation Ephes 2. 20. and yet she soone left her first Loue Reuel 2. 4. and after fell away III. The word Church comprehendeth all the faithfull together at Ephesus so the Church of Ephesus is taken Reuel 2. 1. But our Aduersaries will not haue the people as the Apostles allowed Act. 15. 22. with their Bishops and Pastors to be the Church and with them to approue of matters of Faith For the Romish Clergie thinke of the people as did the hypocriticall Pharises that they know not the Law and are cursed Ioh. 7. 49. Except they allow the people also with the Teachers to be the pillar and ground of truth this place doth not serue their turne IV. If the word Church bee taken for any other particular Church to which Timothie as an Euangelist might goe after the Apostles planting of them then from hence the Papists cannot conclude that which they would for first they acknowledge that particular Churches may erre Secondly its euident by Scripture in the Churches of Galatia Gal. 1. and 3. 1. and 4. 10 11. by historie and by experience Now the Church of Rome was neuer other then a particular Church in the best spirituall estate thereof Saint Paul writes to it no otherwise then to a particular Church V. If it be taken for the Vniuersall Church this helpes not them For first theirs is not the vniuersall but a particular Church as is proued after in the sixteenth question Secondly it is absurd to reason from that which is not questioned nor can euer assemble together to come to the triall if it were questionable VI. The intituling of the Church to bee the pillar and ground of truth wil not afford the conclusion of not erring and that for these Reasons First because the words are metaphoricall and a similitude must be extended no farther then is in ended Now the Church is called the pillar and ground not because shee cannot erre but first for that she hath the Apostles writings committed to her as were the Oracles of God to the Iewes Rom 3. 2. which Apostles writings are saith Irenous the pillars and supporters of our faith the proofes foundations Li. 3. ca. 1. and the grounds of our cause as Saint * De vnit Eccl. ca. 16. On this 1. Tim. 3.
a Noune appellatiue and the other a proper name 3. The present alteration of the speech from Peters person to some other thing will not admit him to be the Rocke For it is not said as it in plainenesse of speech should be if indeed the Rocke had been Peter Thou art Peter and vpon thee will I build my Church but Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke c. Where the Pronoune this hath Relation to some other thing then to Peter euen to his confession that Iesus was Christ the Sonne of the liuing God vpon which Rocke Christ would build his Church For no where the Scriptures thus vary in a Relatiue if the intendment of the speech be to one and the same person neither doe any thus vse to speake nor may wee thinke that Iesus Christ would haue thus doubtfully spoken if he had purposed to haue had Peter held to be the Rocke III. The words following I will build my Church remoueth Peter from being the Rocke First Church here is to be vnderstood the whole Church militant and Triumphant How can Peter be the Rocke on which it is built Could he be the Rocke of the Church Triumphant when he was here militant Or can he be the Rocke now of the Militant and he a Saint in Heauen Triumphant Or how the Rocke of both then and now as hee that is the Rocke must be For on the Rocke is the Church built not a part of it but the whole and not for a time but euen for euer For will all or any part of the Church once built vpon the Rocke bee remoued off from the Rocke Or will the Rocke cease to bee the bearer vp of the Church Then either is Peter now the Rocke or he neuer was the Rocke at all But how can he now be whose bodie is turned to dust Can his Soule be the Rocke As for a Rocke by succession it is but a fantasie Christ speakes of an euerlasting sustaining Rocke and but of one Rocke and not of one Rocke after another dying and decaying Secondly the Church and this Rocke are two things for Christ saith he will build his Church vpon this Rocke Now Peter was one in and of the Church here a principall member militant and now a Saint triumphant He must therefore bee one built with the Church vpon the Rocke he cannot therefore himselfe be the Rocke for so himselfe should be built vpon himselfe Thirdly Christ speakes of his Church and saith my Church Had he no Church but that which was built vpon Peter Had not he at this very time when he spake these words a Church Was Zachary and Elizabeth Iohn Baptist Ioseph and Mary Simeon and Annah the other Apostles the 70. Disciples and many others following him not of his Church If they were were they built on Peter Did they know Peter to be the Rock Or were they of the Church not built as yet vpon the Rock For as yet Peter was not the Rocke by Bellarmines confession Fourthly Christ here made himselfe a Builder I will build saith he my Church He built while he did liue by his Word and Spirit But did his Word and Spirit gather any to Peter Did his Word and Spirit build his followers vpon Peter Christ built his Church by his Apostles for they are said to build and Paul speaketh of himselfe as of a wise Master-builder 1. Cor. 3. 10. But vpon what did they build Euen vpon Christ alone 1. Cor. 3. 11. Ephes 2. 20. in whom all the building is knit together verse 21. They built not vpon Peter nor he on himselfe but vpon Christ 1. Pet. 2. 4 5 6. Did any of the Apostles preach Peter Paul saith he preached not men but God Gal. 1. 10. Or did Peter preach himselfe to be the Rocke If he was the Rocke why did they not preach him If they did not who can beleeue it Fiftly if Peter now was made the Rock and Head as Aquinas Turrecremata and many other Papists auerre though Bellarmine saith it was but here promised how came this Rocke by and by after in Mathew to be called Satan Mat. 16. 23 Is it like that Christ would call the Rock on which he will so firmely build his Church Satan Lastly if it were granted that Christ built his Church on Peter yet is it not spoken exclusiuely as on him alone secluding the rest of the Apostles for elsewhere he conioynes them with him Ioh. 23. 23. Ephes 20. 20. Reu. 21. 14. Mat. 28. 19. IV. These words and the gates of Hell shall not preuaile against it will ouerthrow Peters being the Rocke For this Rock beareth vp so powerfully the Church that Hell gates shall not preuaile against it Whence followeth that this Rocke must needs be stronger then Satans power and policies But what power can that be but the power of Christ and of God For who but God can resist Hell gates Therefore from all the words of this Text it is cleare that Peter cannot by it bee the Head of the Church nor the Rocke on which it is built and yet this place is one of the chiefest for his Headship The words in the next verse 19. I will giue thee the Keyes are answered before Ioh. 21. 15 17. Iesus said to Simon Peter Simon sonne of Ionas louest thou me more then these Feed my Lambes Answ 1. Here are no expresse words of Headship neither can any such thing be concluded out of this place by any well framed argument and yet this is the very principall place which they alledge to vphold it Secondly Christ here calleth him not Peter for that name is vttered by the Euangelist but onely Simon the sonne of Ionas as thereby preuenting the conceit of Headship which our Aduersaries dreame of from the name of Peter Which our Sauiour here mentioneth not nor the name Cephas because of his fearfull deniall of him so lately as now therefore vnworthy of that name Thirdly he is here questioned concerning his loue which he so much boasted of before Christs taking and soone after seemed to haue lost by forswearing Christ And three times hee is asked to remember him of his three times deniall of Christ it being now also the third time of Christs appearing to them verse 14. Also the question is with a comparison Louest thou me more then these What if hee meant it of the 153. great Fishes with the Ship Nets and other things therein for he leaped into the Sea hearing of Christ and cast off all respect to the ship and Fishes verse 7. till Christ willed them to bring of the fishes ver 10. 11. And therefore might Christ demand thereupon this question neither is any thing in the Text against this For Christ was by the fishes and the question was after dinner But conceiue it of the rest of the Apostles as it is commonly vnderstood for Peter had preferred his owne loue before all of them before Mat. 26. 33. Luk. 22. 23. Which here Christ by
when hee liued on the earth Thirdly if but so what is this to proue that Saints then and so now doe know euery mans estate particularly and what passeth here vpon earth Ioh. 5. 45. There is one that accuseth you euen Moses Answ 1. By Moses is not meant his person but his writings among them as the verses 46. and 47. doe declare Secondly it is absurd to make the Saints in Heauen accusers Papists will haue them Intercessors whose propertie is not to accuse in any sort but to pray for them which pray to them Thirdly Christ saith they trust in Moses Will a Saint in heauen bee so displeased with them and so faile them that trust in him that hee will goe and accuse them vnto God Such then become miserable Patrons Doth their Legend afford any such examples Fourthly Christs saying that they trusted in Moses must not be vnderstood of his person but of his writings For the Iewes did not beleeue in man A curse as is before deliuered they knew to be pronounced against them which trusted in man Reu. 12. 10. The accuser of the brethren is cast downe which accused them before God day and night Answ In the former they make Moses an accuser of some and so in that respect a companion with the diuell heere Is not this a wise Gagger But how can they proue hence that Saints in Heauen know what is done here Because the diuell knowes what euils are here done A goodly reason But doe not wee know that the Diuell is here on earth that hee compasseth the earth to and fro Hee stirres vp Dauid to number the people hee is author of much mischiefe hee must then know many things And will it hence follow therefore that soules which remaine continually in heauen must know what is here done in earth 2. King 6. 12. Elisha telleth what words the King of Syria spake being farre from him So 2. King 5. 26. Elisha saw what passed between Naaman and Gehezi 1. Cor. 12. Saint Paul was rapt vp into the third Heauen Act. 7. Steuen in earth saw Christ in heauen Answ 1. These places tell vs that these things were so Let them bring vs Scriptures which will affirme as much of the soules in heauen heere seeing things in earth and we will beleeue But this these places proue not Secondly these were extraordinarie reuelations and giue no warrant of ordinarie knowledge In such things from extraordinarie acts to ordinarie is no sound arguing For the Prophets did not know all things Elisha knew not the cause of the Shunamites comming 2. King 4. 27. nor Samuel when he went to lesse his house whom God would chuse 1. Sam. 16. 6. Thirdly all these are instances of knowledge in men on earth of things done on earth or of things which being on earth they saw in heauen but not a word what those in heauen saw here vpon earth which is the onely point in question The Gagger quoteth moe places As Mat. 19. 28. But this is nothing to purpose And the place is meant of all appearing before Christ at the last day whom the Apostles shall then see Reu. 2. 26. 1. Here is a promise accomplished in Christ See D. White his last booke p 309. 310 311 312. in answer to this as also to Reu. 3. 12. 1. Cor. 13. 9. 5. 10. not cited by the Gagger Psal 2. in whom the Saints haue this power See Augustine Beda and many other cited by Fulke on this place for this sense Secondly this is to bee vnderstood of the Saints power ouer those out of the Church For here they are to bee ruled with a rodde of iron and to be broken in pieces But the Saints departed Papists make Protectors of others and not breakers of them to shiuers Act. 5. 3. This was an extraordinarie manifestation of Ananias his hypocrisie to Peter If they can proue that God doth reueale mens actions here to Saints in Heauen wee yeeld 1. Sam. 28. 14. Here is the Diuell appearing in Samuelt likenesse what hence this Gagger will gather for Saints knowledge in heauen I know not III. Scriptures obiected that Saints departed doe pray for vs particularly answered Reu. 5. 8. The 24. Elders fell downe before the Lambe hauing euery one of them Harps and golden Vials full of odours which are the prayers of the Saints Answ 1. This was in a vision and traunce and the words allegoricall and therefore cannot bee the ground of Doctrine of faith Secondly here is not meant the Saints departed but these foure and twenty are the type of the whole Church here on earth verse 10. Thirdly these prayers of the Saints which Saints are on earth chap. 8. 3. may be the prayers of the foure and twenty Elders themselues yet called the prayers of the Saints as if they were the prayers of others First for that these represent the whole Church verse 9. which consists of Saints Secondly because a Church or Congregation of people gathered together pray not onely for themselues but for all the Saints of God and so their hearts here being as Vials full of the grace of Prayer as it were odours are esteemed the prayers of all Saints Fourthly Tho. Aquinas Rich. de Sco. Victore Haymo Beda and other doe expound this place of the Church militant 2. Mach. 15. 14. Then Onias answered c. Where he telleth how Ieremy prayed for the people Answ 1. This is an Apocryphal Booke Secondly this speech of Onias touching Ieremies praying was but Iudas his dreame For it is said in verse 11. that he told the souldiers al this as his dreame to encourage them to fight It is weake architecture to build vpon a dreame doctrines of faith Thirdly neither did Iudas much regard the helpe of Ieremies prayer For in the same Chapter hee himselfe did pray verse 21 22 23. but intreated not Ieremy to pray for him but made his suite onely to God Ier. 15. 1. Though Moses and Samuel stood before me c. Answ 1. These words are spoken onely by way of supposition as if God had said If Moses and Samuel were now before mee as they were when they liued on earth praying for these people I should not regard them Is it good reasoning from a suppositiue speech to a reall act indeed Secondly they themselues say that all the Fathers that were before Christ were in Limbus Patrum and so could not know our affaires in particular to pray for vs. Baruch 3. 4. Heare now the prayers of the dead Israelites Answ 1. This booke is Apocryphal Secondly were not these in the place called Limbus Patrum How could they then see all things in the face of God from whose presence they were kept Thirdly heere is mention of the prayers of dead Israelites but not for whom they prayed It is not said they prayed for others on earth They might pray for themselues in Limbo Fourthly by dead Israelites are not here to bee vnderstood such as were departed
this life but such as were accounted as dead as going downe to the graue for so Baruch speakes to Israel verse 9 11. And hee speakes of such dead Israelites and their children which had sinned before God and had not hearkened to him verse 4. expressing their deserts worthy death Doe men aliue requesting God to heare for them the prayers of the dead vse to moue God with telling of the Saints sinnes and their rebellion against him Is this a Romish prayer Heare Lord the prayers of the dead for mee for they haue sinned against thee Will any be so madde to alledge such a reason Therefore Baruch makes confession of the liuing Israelites being then through distresse as dead men and beggeth pardon for them as followeth in verse 5. Fiftly their Doway Annotation on this place is this Men in sinnes and miseries are as if they were dead verse 11. yet by Gods mercy may receiue new grace of spirituall life They then take these for men aliue and not dead as this foolish Gagger doth Reu. 2. 26 27. This is answered before and nothing concerneth the prayers of the Saints departed Luk 16. Diues in hell prayed for his brethren on earth much more then will the Saints in heauen Answ 1. This is but a supposed speech a parable and therefore nothing thence to be gathered but as is intended in the scope of the Parable Secondly if there bee such all-knowing vision and all-helping charitie in Heauen it is maruell that in all the Scripture it should no where as clearely be mentioned as this charitie of one damned in hell Reuel 6. 9 10. And I saw vnder the Altar the soules c. and they cryed with a lowd voice How long Lord holy and true doest thou not iudge and auenge our bloud on them that dwell on the earth Answ 1. This was seene by Iohn in a vision and is not to bee interpreted according to the Letter to establish a doctrine of faith Secondly though it be taken after the letter yet here is no proofe that Saints pray for any in particular but for the Church militant in generall Thirdly their Prayer is not for other in the Church they intercede not for other but the request they make concerneth themselues Fourthly their cry is literally for iustice and reuenge vpon their enemies persecutors and sheaders of their bloud Doth mindfulnesse of iniuries remaine in Saints departed They then are lesse charitable then Saints on earth Steuen at his death prayed for his enemies This place proueth not that Saints departed pray particularly here for vs on earth but rather they pray against the enemies of the Church 2. Pet. 1. 15. I will endeuour after my decease to haue remembrance of these things Answ This is not meant by his intercession to God after death but of his then present and diligent writing to them while he was aliue whereby they might bee made to remember after his decease what hee had taught them by word of mouth or writing while he liued 1. King 2. 13 19. Adoniah had a suite to Solomon and used the helpe of Bathsheba to him Absalom vsed Ioabs intercession for him to Dauid 2. Sam. 14. So should we goe vnto God by Saints intercessors for vs. Answ 1. Similitudes are for illustration but doe not proue any thing especially thus detorted absurdly Secondly the case is not alike as betweene man and man so betweene God and vs in this case Hee is God and so euery where and not as man circumscribed in a place To man wee cannot speake when and where we would but to God wee may whose eyes and thoughts are not like to mans Esai 55. Man through pride will not or through carelesnesse regards not or through ignorance knowes not or through businesse is hindered so as hee cannot helpe such as come for helpe or his attendants about him may keepe Petitioners from him so as they cannot speake to him But there are no such lets in God The Simile therefore is not fit Thirdly this is voluntarie humilitie which caused the worship of Angels by certaine Heretikes which the Apostle condemneth Col. 2. 18. Fourthly wee need no Saints to goe to God for vs for wee haue appointed by God himselfe a Mediatour of intercession betweene God and vs his Sonne Iesus Christ by whom boldly with confidence we may goe to God Ephes 3. 12. Heb. 4. 16. 10. 22. 7. 25. Fiftly as for any to goe betweene Christ and vs wee neede it not For he is the Head and all wee the members of his bodie as well those in earth as those in heauen wee here on earth being as deare to him as those in heauen Hee sitteth in heauen to request for vs and is a most mercifull High Priest touched with our infirmities Heb. 4. 15. Therefore hee tooke our nature vpon him Heb. 2. 16. to be a faithfull and mercifull High Priest verse 17. Steuen made no meanes to him but prayed immediately to him Act. 7. 59 60. and so did Iohn Reuelation 22. 20 21. Christ willeth vs himselfe to come vnto him Math. 11. 28. And we reade not that any of the Apostles or holy men praying mentioned in Scripture did euer goe to Saint or Angell to make request for them Also to answer the Simile Is there any of vs hauing a great mans Command in all our needs to come to himselfe giuing his faithfull word and promise to heare our suites requests very readily at any time and none appointed by him to heare suiters when they come but onely himselfe attending mercifully in his owne person for vs in open place without let of any that would goe first to any of his seruants and not forthwith rather to himselfe with all gladnesse I appeale to mens owne hearts in this Lastly this putting of Saints betweene Christ and vs is to make an Intercessor and to hold Saints departed if wee were sure they could heare vs which yet is very vncertaine to bee more louing more tenderly affected toward vs then Iesus Christ himselfe who hath with his owne bloud bought both them and vs. Scriptures obiected that wee may pray to God to haue our Petitions granted in fauour and merit of Saints departed Exod. 32. 13. Remember Abraham Isaac and Israel thy seruants to whom thou swarest c. Answ 1. Here is no merit of Saints vrged Secondly their persons are mentioned by Moses not for their owne worthinesse but for the Couenant which by oath God confirmed to them which Couenant Moses vrgeth not their deserts For Moses speakes of Gods act to them but not a syllable of any thing that they either did or spake note it well 2. Chron. 6. 16. Keepe with thy seruant Dauid my Father that which thou hast promised Answ 1. Here is no word no worke of Dauid remembred and therefore no merit of his vrged Secondly that which Salomon alledgeth in his prayer it Gods promise made vnto Dauid So in 2. Chro. 1. 9. in 1. Chro.
keepe and attend sheepe in the Countrey my furniture is rather the Crooke and Scripp then the Sword or Sling Yet if wilde beasts range and rauage among our flocks we are awaked to stretch forth our hands and rescue our Lambs And well may wee answer with Dauid Thy seruant kept his fathers 1. Sam. 17. 34. Sheâ—pe and there came a Lyon and likewise a Beare and tooke a Sheepe out of the Flocke and I went out after him and smote him and tooke it out of his mouth Plaine Shepheardly Dauid had he trusted in his owne strength and not rather in the goodnesse of his cause being Gods quarrell might easily haue been discouraged not onely by the braues and threats of the Philistine but much more by the checks and snappes of his elder brother Eliab who perhaps being better furnished with abilities both for warre and for Court thought to frowne his rurall brother out of the field But God is pleased to aduance his truth and cause the rather by plaine and weake meanes For my part nothing hath moued me to this encounter but the zeale of Gods truth and desire to instruct the meaner sort and establish our lesse learned Christian brethren As for curiosities and subtill contemplations I leaue them vnto others or rather to be left of all others so farre as they tend to engendring of strife among our selues and preiudice to our Church And accordingly in pressing the passages of Scripture and vindicating the same from violent and absurd interpretations I haue laboured to deliuer the plaine true and natiue exposition arising out of the literall sense and naturall context together with the circumstances thereof Which manner of interpretation as most sound and solid hath in all ages and will find approbation with the iudicious As for the stile and words of Scriptures I desire as this aduersarie dealt with vs by way of repercussion so to repay him in coine of his owne stampe and therefore I still pleade out of their owne vulgar English Translation of the whole Bible written and perfited by the Seminary Priests at Rhemes as appeareth by the first words of their Preface to the New Testament printed there Though the other part thereof being the old Testament was afterward printed at Doway and thereupon is commonly called the Doway Bible The Rhemists Priests for making any Translation at all of the Bible into the English tongue though out of the vulgar Latine though obscured by affected phrases and distorted by their corrupt Annotations yet are said to haue bin beshrewed by their owne more subtile Masters and Superiours as hauing thereby layed open to the people the nakednesse and deformitie of their Romish doctrines And therefore haue I the more willingly produced the same against themselues the power and lustre of Gods Word though clouded and disguised by their purposed obscuritie and improprieties yet competently shining forth for their conuiction by this vnwilling wounding of Rome by the out-workes of Rhemes Vnto the places cited out of their Bible I haue added not onely sutably to the Gaggers proofes the testimonies of diuers ancient Fathers and Doctours of the Church but also for ouer-measure the consent of diuers moderne Writers very passable and laudable in the Romish Church Lastly in handling this Popish Gagg varyed and furbished in diuers Editions I thought it not worth the while to goe thorow euery particular question some being friuolous or of small moment or weake and naked enough of themselues but haue rather chosen to insist vpon those which are most pertinent and weightie The discussing whereof might tend to seasonable edification The iudgement of which my poore labours I humbly submit to our Reuerend and blessed Mother the Church of England And so Christian Reader I commit my endeuours to thy charitable acceptation and withall desire to haue my part in thy deuout and brotherly prayers resting Thine in the Lord R. B. The Contents of this Counter-Gagg Three Principles premised for deciding Controuersies THere is one onely Rule of Faith page 1. 2. This Rule is and euer hath beene the Word of God p. 3. 3. This Word of God is now no where to be found but onely in the Holy Scriptures p. 6. Principal popish errors refuted in this Counter Gag by expresse Texts of the approued English-Rhemish Bible as also by Testimonies of Antiquity and of their owne Writers 1. That the holy Scriptures are not the only Rule of our Faith and life in all matters necessary to saluation p. 13. 2. That the Scriptures are imperfect insufficient to instruct vs in all things necessary to saluation p. 21. 3. That the Scriptures be obscure and hard to be vnderstood euen in things necessary p. 29. 4. That the Script doe not interpret themselues and that the true sence may not be fetched out of themselues p. 40. 5. That the Scriptures are not to be allowed to be read of the people nor heard by them in a knowne tongue p. 44. 6. That the common liberty for all to reade the Scriptures doth breed heresies p. 50. 7. That the Scriptures cannot of themselues be knowne to be the Word of God vnlesse the Church doe giue witnesse vnto them that they are so p. 53. 8. That Traditions which they call the vnwritten Word are the Rule of Faith p. 60. 9. That the present Churches determination is the absolute vnquestionable Rule of the peoples faith on which they are to rest beleeuing their teachers without farther inquiry p. 70. 10. That the Church is no where in Scripture taken for the Inuisible Church p. 77. 11. That the Church is euer gloriously conspicuous in the world p. 79. 12 That the Church cannot erre p. 88. 13. That the Church of Rome cannot erre p. 106. 14. That the Bishop of Rome cannot erre p. 109. 15. That Councels may not erre being confirmed by the Pope 115. 16. That the Church of Rome is the Catholike Church p. 120. 17. That the Church of Rome hath euer bin in perfect vnity within it selfe p 127. 18. That Saint Peter was Prince of the Apostles and had a primacy of power and authority aboue all the other Apostles p. 130. 19. That Saint Peter was Head of the Church p. 137. 20. That Peter was the onely Vicar of Christ heere vpon earth p. 152. 21. That the publike Seruice of the Church ought not to be in a vulgar and knowne tongue p. 155. 22. That Images are to be in Churches that not only for instruction but also to be adored p. 159. 23. That the Lords Supper is to bee administred to the people in one kind onely p. 170. 24. That these words This is my body are to be taken literally without any figure the Bread being transubstantiate and Christ there corporally the substance of Bread being taken away and Christs true Body in the roome thereof though the accidents of Bread remaine p. 177. 25. That Prayers are to be made to Saints departed and Angels p. 183. Scriptures obiected for
of Rome Papists for their Pope and Romanists from their City but they themselues vsurped the name of Catholikes They call vs Lutherans and Caluinists but we make none saue only Christ the autor of our faith commonly we are called Protestants because we continue our protestation against the enemies and abominations of the Romish Church Such a Church thus taken in this generall manner professing Christ vnder one name or other hath euer bene visible euen to the world Thus we teach that the Church is euer visible one where or other and neuer wholy hidden at any time But here in the question the name Church we take more strictly for a companie wheresoeuer assembled in publique together worshipping the true God in Iesus Christ as God himselfe onely hath prescribed by his Word whereto outwardly they professe conformitie both for doctrine and conuersation also in good measure This true Church of God we say is visible First in respect that it consists of men making open profession Secondly in respect of the place being publique where such obtaine liberty to meete together Thirdly in respect of the externall actions in and about the worship of God Thus this Church is visible but not alike gloriously coÌ„spicuous at al times in euery place where God planteth it This Church we affirm not to be at any time inuisible but we only say it is sometime hidden neither yet do we meane hereby that it is so hidden as not to be found any where of theÌ„ that seeke after it by due means as if it were vtterly extinguished nor so hidden as not to be seene of any in any place for such a hiding we neuer dreame of as our Aduersaries interpret falsely against vs but when we say it is hidden we meane that it is not acknowledged but contemned by the euill ones which loue not the truth by reason of the fewnes of the followers Mat. 10. 23. and 23 34. Heb. 11. 38. Act. 1. 13. and 12. 12 and 20. 7 8. thereof and their secret meetings in time of persecution and their decay of outward gouernment and publique exercises in open places For these reasons she is said to be hidden and this hidden estate of the Church commeth to passe 1. For that she consisteth of a mixt companie the worser sort sometime and for a long time comming to be the greater and a preuailing faction 2. As they preuaile so they diminish the number weaken the credit of those professing the truth and do bring cunningly their owne will their owne inuentions and wayes into estimation with the worldly minded 3. This preuailing faction and greater number increasing engrosse and arrogate to themselues the name of the Church and so encroach vpon credit to their owne deuices as vaunting to be the onely true Church and their profession and practice the onely true and sound Religion 4. Hereupon they condemne the other as Schismatiques and Hereticks and their way as heresie and so raise vp against them persecution inhibiting their meetings in publique scattering their Assemblies punishing their Teachers and making them to be generally euill spoken of and putting by-names vpon them full of reproach to cause theÌ„ to be the more detested of the worst and distasted of indifferent minds by forging many lies and falsities vpon them both in life and doctrine 5. By this it commeth to passe that now they are glad to flie away to hide themselues to meete in secret places where they may with any safetie come together till God raise such as be in authoritie to afford them publique meetings againe In the meane space they are as it were hidden and this is all we meane when we speake of the hidden Church which is not so hidden but that the members of her are seene one to another See D Whites te aâ—d cable obâ—eruatiâ—ns of the Church i◠〈◊〉 Reply to Fisher pag. 51. and do often meete together yea some of them are espied by this preuailing faction sometime whom they cruelly persecute and put to death if they do not recant and turne to them Their assertion that the Church hath beene euer to the world gloriously visible is most false Confuted by their owne Bible 1. By Propheticall speeches foretelling that the Church shall lose her glorious conspicuousnesse to the world 1. Chr. 15. 3. And many dayes shall passe in Israel without the true God and without Priest and Teachers and without the Law Osea 3. 4. Many dayes shall the children of Israel sit without King without Priest without Sacrifice without Altar and without Ephod and Teraphim See also Mich. 3. 6 7. and in Mat. 24. 24. Christ foretelleth that false Christs and false prophets shall arise and so farre seduce as to deceiue the verie elect if it were possible which could not be if the true Church should be euer gloriously conspicuous S. Paul 2. Thess 2. 3 4. telleth vs of such a reuolt as Antichrist shall be exalted and sit in the Temple of God And S. Iohn in the Reuelation Chap. 9. 2. telleth of such a darknesse that should obscure the Sunne and Aire of such an oppression of the Church as she should be trodden vnder foote Chap. 11. 2. of such a persecution as she should be glad to fly into the wildernesse Chap. 12. 6. and lastly of such a preuailing of the Beast that enemie as the whole earth should adore and follow after him Chap. 13. 7 8. Which Word of God must needs be true And therefore the Church is not euer gloriously conspicuous to the world as an earthly Monarchy or estate 2. By Historicall narration 2. Chron. 15. 3. Heb. 11. 37 38. Iudg. 6. 2. in the kingdom of Iudah in Ahaz his dayes in the dayes of Manasses his reuolt from God for then was there no glorious conspicuitie of the Church any where What a low ebbe was Gods Church come to in Israel in Eliah his dayes About the time of Christs suffering what glorious face of the true Church weâ— there then Christ was condemned the Apostles were sted 〈◊〉 scattered Peter forswore Christ Was heere a glorious true Church in the eye of the world We see then the Church hath not euer beene in a pompous visibilitie Contraried by Antiquitie S. Augustine Epist. 80. ad Hesych towards the end and Epist. 48. ad Vincent saith When the Sunne shall be darkened and the Moone shall not giue her light and the Starres shall fall from heauen as is prophesied Reuel 6. and 9. 1. then the Church shall not appeare for that then the vngodly persecutors See more of this his opinion in Enarrat in Psal 10. de bapt also contra Donat. lib. 6. cap. 4. shall rage out of measure S. Chrysostome on Mat. Hom. 49. saith that since the time that Heresies inuaded the Church it can no wayes be knowne which is the true Church of Christ but by the Scriptures onely in this confusion it can no otherwaies else be knowne This sheweth then that the true Church of
Wolfe lodging with the Lambe the Leopard with the Kid the Calfe with the young Lion the Cow with the Beare and the Lion eating straw like an Oxe c. and yet these be Prophecies Esay 11. 6 7 see chap. 60. 20 21. and many other places speaking of Christs Kingdome and spirituall comforts thereof Esay 61. 9. And their seede shall bee knowne among the Gentiles c. Answ Here is spoken of the Churches seede to bee seene among the Gentiles but whether openly or secretly is not mentioned but the very text saith All that see them shall acknowledge them Marke all that see them So first here is no speech of the whole Church but of her seed Secondly that they are to be knowne and seene but this may be as well in secret as openly And thirdly of all that see them To some then they are not seene Wee confesse that all that by faith see the Church to them is she spiritually visible And this is all that this text affordeth XII Proposition That the Church cannot erre THe Church here taken for the visible Church consisting of a mixt company wee say may erre This their opinion taught and beleeued of the people is the mother and nurse of all the mischiefes in that Romish Synagogue which arrogateth the name and priuiledge of Gods Church and that Church only is intended by this peruerse Teacher For this is the Mystery of iniquitie and secret Cabala of the Roman Rabbins when they giue the glorious title of inerrabilitie to the Catholike or generall Church they all the while meane none other then their Mistresse the Lady of the seuen hilled city and other Churches as subiugated to her and made her hand-maides or rather slaues But wee will follow this question in the generall stile and appellation of the Church as it is here propounded in termes Confuted by their owne Bible First we find in it the Churches defection foretold by Moses Deut. 31. 16. This people meaning Israel the Church of God then will fornicate after strange gods forsake me c. Foretold by the Prophet Azariah 2. Chron. 15. 2. Many dayes shall passe in Israel without the true God without Priest a Teacher and without the Law Foretold by Saint Paul 2. Thes 2. 2 12. where he speakes of a reuolt and such a reuolt as thereby the Man of sinne gets vp to seate himselfe in the Temple of God drawing to him such as haue not a loue of the truth Foretold by Saint Peter 2. Pet. 2. 1. In you lying Masters which shall bring in sects of perdition By Saint Iohn in his Reuelation where the Church is foreshewed to proue a bloody Whore Chap. 17. Now what is foretold certainely doth or shall come to passe Therefore the Church may erre Secondly wee find in their owne Bible that the Prophets in old time found the Church guiltie not onely of morall crimes but also of errors in doctrine Esay 48. 4 5 8. and in Ezech. 16. 15 35. where she is set out as a lewd Strumpet And in Chap. 20. 8. raxed for idolatrie aforetime The Prophecie of Ieremie condemneth the Church in his time for many abominations committed in Ierusalem and in Egypt Our Sauiour found the Church at his comming corrupted with false doctrine the leauen of the Scribes and Pharises warning his Disciples to take heed thereof Mat. 16. 6 12. How the Churches of Galatia did erre and were bewitched Saint Paul telleth vs Gal. 1. and 3. and 4. And the Churches in Asia as Pergamus and Thyatira are taxed and found fault with Reuel 2. Thirdly we find in their Bible by the historie thereof that the Church hath erred euen from the very beginning I. In Paradise our first Parents the first Church that euer God had and the most perfect for knowledge holinesse and righteousnesse yet this Church erred and fell fearefully in adding to Gods Word in taking from it and in beleeuing the deuill before God What Church is it then which may not erre II. After their casting out of Paradise till the Flood the Church that is the sonnes of God went vnto the daughters of men by which mixture the whole earth became corrupted Gen. 6. which error in fact came out of a dogmaticall error in iudgement III. From the Flood to Abraham in which space we reade of open rebellion against God Gen. 11. and that there was idolatrie committed in the Church by Thare and Nachor in Mesopotamia from amongst whom Abraham was called out Iosh 24. 2 14. IV. From Abrahams comming into Canaan till Israels comming out of Egypt In this space idolatrie was crept into the Church into Iacobs Family Gen. 35. 2. And Israel is taxed for committing idolatry in Egypt Iosh 24. 14. and for being obstinate therein Ezech. 20. 8. and 16. 15 35. and 23. 8. V. In Israels going into Canaan during their aboade in the Wildernesse they erred in heart alwaies they knew not the Lords wayes but mightily prouoked him Psal 94. 9 10 11. and they committed horrible idolatry both Aaron the chiefe Priest the Heads of the people besides the rest Exod. 32. 4 5 8 31. They were a peruerse generation of which reade Psal 77. 8. 10 16 17 18 19 36 40 41 56 57. the whole Psalme sheweth that they greatly erred VI. In Canaan in the dayes of the Iudges how often fell they into horrible idolatry seruing other gods and doing what liked themselues Iudg. 2. 10 11 12 13. and 5. 8. and 6. 25 26. and 8. 33. and 9. 4. 27. and 10. 6. and 21. 25. In Ely his time was a miserable state of the Church and Religion 1. Sam. 2. In Sauls time men did not seeke to the Arke of God 1. Chron. 13. 3. VII From Salomons reigne to the captiuitie were great abominations Salomon set vp or fauoured in others the setting vp of idolatrie the remainders whereof continued vnto Iosiah his dayes The ten Tribes fell to idolatrie and neuer returned Iudah often committed great wickednesse as in the dayes of Rehoboam Iehoram Amaziah Ioas Ahaz Manasses Amon and other Kings which succeeded godly Iosias and the people are often complained of to haue done corruptly and to haue sinned against God euen in good Kings daies 2. Chron. 17. 2. and 33. 17. and 36. 14. for which God heauily plagued them 2. Chr. 28. 6. For more euidence of the euils in this space reade the Prophets Esay 48. 45. and 56. 10 11. Ier. 2. 27 28. and 3. 1 2. and 5. 31. and 6. 14. Ezech. 69 11 12 15. Hosea 2. 2. VIII From thence to Christ The Priests as Malachi witnesseth had departed out of the way and made voide the Couenant Mal. 2. 8. had despised and polluted his name Mal. 1. 6 12. they did not lay to heart his commandements Mal. 2. 2. Iudah is accused to haue transgressed and that abominations were done in Israel and in Ierusalem that they had contaminated the sanctification of the Lord and had the daughter of a strange god
come to them and blesse them Chap. 20. 24. to be high aboue all Nations to praise name and honour to be a holy people Deut. 26. 19. to circumcise their heart and the heart of their seed to loue him with all their heart and soule Deut. 30. 6. to be with them not to leaue them nor forsake them Deut. 31. 8. yea he promised that no new god should be among Psal 81. 9. them nor they to adore a strange god Psal 80. 10. Mount Sion was not to be remoued but to abide for euer and peace to be on Israel Psal 105. 1. whom he would redeeme from all Psal 1â—â— 1. Psal 13â— 8. Psal 132. 13 14 iniquities Psal 129. 8. He chose Sion and that to be his rest for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psal 13â— 13 14. their way was to be the way of Holinesse and so direct that fooles should not erre by it Esay 35. 8. and such as erred in the Spirit should know vnderstanding the mutterer should learne the Law Esa 29 24. and they should haue Pastors according to the Lords owne heart which should feed them with knowledge and doctrine Ier. 3. 15. To conclude Israel had a promise to be saued with eternall saluation they should not be confounded and ashamed for euer and euer Esay 45. 17. yea that we may know that the promises were not to the people then liuing onely the Lord saith I will powre out my Spirit vpon their seede and my blessing vpon thy stocke Esay 44. 3. and touching the Temple thus saith God to Salomon I haue sanctified this House to put my Name there for euer and mine eyes and my heart shall be there 1. King 9. 3. alwayes 3. Kin. 9. 3. Yet for all these so gracious promises she erred she hath fallen away and remaineth in her sinnes We haue heard out of their owne Bible First how the Churches defection hath beene foretold Secondly how she also hath beene found guiltie Thirdly the same proued by Historie of the Bible from the beginning in Adam and Eue till Christ though the Church of Israel had admirable meanes to vphold it to which I do adde this last From Christs comming till Iohns being in Pathmos In this space we may finde errours in the Church The Apostles themselues before Christs Ascension were in an error touching Christ his Kingdome dreaming of a temporall kingdome Act. 1. 6. Luk. 24. 21. of restoring the kingdome to Israel and redeeming them so as they did striue among themselues which of them should be greatest Luk 22. 24. and hereupon it was that the mother of Zebedees children desired of him for her sonnes that one might sit in his Kingdome on the right hand and the other on the left Mat. 20. 20 21. Their knowledge was very imperfect for it is said often that they vnderstood not many things Mat 15. 16. Luk. 9. 45. and 10. 34. Ioh. 12. 16. and 29. yea so slow of heart and dull of hearing they were that Christ telleth them that he had many things to say to them but that then they were not able to beare theÌ„ Ioh. 16. 12. their faith was verie weake as appeareth by his calling of them Ye of little faith Mat. 8. 26 and 16. 8. Slow of heart to beleeue what the Prophets had spoken Luk. 24. 25. Also by their forsaking him and flying from him when he was taken Mat. 26 56. After Christs Ascension and the comming downe of the holy Ghost they were ignorant for a time in this that they did not thinke it was lawfull to go to the Gentiles as we may see in Peter Act. 10 15. 20. and the other Iewes vers 45. compared with Cap. 11. 2 3 18 19. The Churches of Galatia erred so as S. Paul said that he feared lest hee had laboured in vaine Gal. 4. 11. I neede not here speake of errors and Heresies creeping in troubling the Church and deceiuing many as in Act. 15. 2. 1. Tim 1. 3 6 7 19. 20. 2. Tim 2. 18 19. 1. Cor. 15. 12. Ephesus fell from her first loue Reu. 2. 4 Pergamus had in her such as vpheld the doctrine of Balaam and of the Nicolaitans Reu. 2 14. Thyatira tolerated Iezabel to reach and seduce Christs seruants Reu. 2. 20. Sardis was an hypocriticall Church and in a dying condition and Laodicea luke-warme rich in conceit but miserable naked blinde and poore in condition Reu. 3. 2 16 17. S. Paul telleth Timothy that all that were in Asia were departed from him 2. Tim. 1. 15. Thus was the Churches state euen in the Apostles dayes By which we may see the Church subiect to erre and to hold the contrary that she cannot erre Antiquitie is against Contraried by Antiquitie Origen Hom. 6. in Ezek. The Citie of God as long as she erreth not or doth not sinne hath God to her Father but when she beginneth to erre her father is an Amorite and her mother an Hittite he then thought she might erre Ierome complaineth in Dialog aduers Lucifer That the whole world groaned and wondered to see it selfe Arian Did not he thinke then that the Church might erre Aug. lib. 2. cap 18. Retract speaking of the Church on earth saith that by reason of ignorance and infirmities of her members the whole Church hath cause to say euery day Forgiue vs our trespasses Basil epist 70. telleth vs that Satan had in his time begun to sow the seedes of Apostasie in those places where the Gospell of the Kingdome first arose vp striuing to spread it into the whole World He speakes of Apostasie which is more then erring What meant Hilarie cont Auxentium when he said The Church is lost and wee are fallen into the time of Antichrist whose ministers do transforme themselues into Angels of light without all feeling or conscience of Christ Vincent Lvren aduers profan Nou. ca. 4. hath said that not only some portion of the Church but the whole Church it selfe is blotted with some new contagion Gainesaid by some of their owne Pope Innocent saith in the Canon Law The Churches Iudgement Decret Greg. li. 3. de sent excom ca. 28. A nobis est saepe Super 5. de sent excom Anobis 2. oftentimes followeth opinion which many times falleth out both to deceiue vs and to be deceiued it selfe Panormitan thus writeth A generall Councell representing the whole Church may erre in excommunicating him that should not bee excommunicate If in a matter of this nature where proofes may bee brought before sentence pronounced how much more in points of a higher nature without the Scripture for the guide A generall Councell is called the whole Church representadue If therfore this erre theÌ„ may the Church erre for how can the Churches voyce else be heard except in Can. 6. the Scriptures But by their owne confession generall Councels haue erred for the first Councell at Nice of 318. Bishops made the Bishop of Romes gouernment no more then that of Alexandria That at Ephesus of 200.
the Church at Colosse Col. 1. 4 6. for their stedfast faith loue and fruit of the Gospell and for their order which the Apostle ioyed to behold cha 2. 5. What shal I speak of the praises of the 1. Thes 1. 3 6. 2. 13 14. 3. 6. 4. 10. 2. Thes 1. 3 4. 2. 13. Thessalonians for their worke of Faith growing exceedingly their labour of loue their patience of hope their abounding in charitie being followers of the Apostles and the Churches of God in Iury receiuing the Word of God as the Word of God in much tribulation with ioy of the holy Ghost To which prayses the beleeuers at Rome did not then attaine though they had their prayses and those great too Rom. 15. 14. but not comparable with those Churches Lastly in shewing how the Apostles honoured some other Churches by their writings As Corinth by two Epistles so Ephesus by one from Saint Paul by another from Saint Iohn Reuel 2. 1. who wrote to that Church in the first place the heauenly booke of the Reuelation in like sort were two written to the Thessalonians and but one to Rome 5. It is cleare by their own Bible that Peter whō they claime falsely for their first Pope wrote two Epistles which are called Catholike but neither of them was written to Rome as the Catholike Church neither maketh he any mention of it And S. Paul writeth to the Saints at Rome as to a particular company and not as any Head-Church before and aboue other The Thessalonians are commended for being followers of the Churches of God in Iudea but not for following those at Rome to whom when Saint Paul wrote hee saith Rom. 1. 6. that they were called among others that in other Nations were called but it is not said aboue other Nations 6. Their Bible telleth vs that S. Paul wrote his Epistle to them that were in Rome called Saints and beloued of God so that they were within that City or there-about but the Catholike Church was then dispersed for the Gospell at that time had gone into all the World and was preached to euery creature vnder Heauen Col. 1. 6 23. In their Bible is mention Acts 2. made of thirtie Kingdomes and Countries ten Ilands and almost three score famous Cities out of Iury in and amongst the Gentiles where the Gospell had been preached among whom Rome was but one and had obteined at the most praises common with other Churches Their titles were Saints Rom. 1. 7. beloued of God also brethren Rom. 10. 1. and 12. 1. and 15. 14 30. Their faith the same that was among all Nations Rom. 1. 5. called the common Faith vers 12. and therefore spoken of throughout the whole World vers 8. Their obedience was published to euery place Rom. 16. 19. Not for that their Faith and obedience did surpasse others for the words are deliuered barely your faith your obedience not with prayses as the Faith and obedience of the Colossians and Thessalonians accompanied with loue and aboundant charity with patience and ioy of the holy Ghost in great afflictions and so forth but for that Rome was the sease of the Empire and the publishing of their faith and obedience might bee a meanes to draw on others which dwelt in other places Contraried by Antiquitie We may reade that the chiefe of the Church of Rome was but at first a Bishop and his Church but a Drocesan Church Then hee became an Archbishop and so his Church but a Prouinciall Church After he got to be a Patriarch and so his Church but Patriarchall as some other were then equall with him as that of Antioch Alexandria Ierusalem and Constantinople All this time he was no Vniuersall Bishop till bloody Phocas gaue him that title and so his Church not Vniuersall till she also became the great whore and so might well be common the kings of the earth committing fornication with her as was foretold Reuel 17. It is said that Athanasius as Liberius confesseth was separated Epist ad Vrsac Valent. in Baron Annal. to 3. Ann. 357. n◠44. from the communion of the Church of Rome But may we iudge so holy a man and so valiant a Champion for the truth to be therefore separated from the Catholicke Church Polycrates and the Easterne Churches did not condiscend to the Church of Rome in the keeping of Easter did they therefore dissent from the Catholicke Church who was he in those dayes that had so much as a dreame thereof S. Ierome in Catal. Fortunat. reproueth the custome of the Church of Rome and Epist ad Euagr. he preferreth the custome of the Catholicke Church he held not Rome then the Catholicke Church but distinguisheth them asunder one from another The title of Catholicke was long before it came to be added to the Church and when it was vsed many Churches were so called The Romane Church then was not the Catholicke Church Gainesayd by some of their owne Aeneas Syluius who was Pope writeth That before the Epist 30 1. Councell of Nice small respect was had to the Church of Rome Now it cannot be imagined that all the time before the learned Fathers and holy Martyrs should be said to haue had small respect to the Catholicke Church the mother of euery particular Church because they had small respect to the Church of Rome If Aeneas Syluius saith true then was not Rome held the Catholike Church of those who so smally respected her Pighius lib. 6. ca. 3. de Eccl. Hierarch saith Who did euer yet by the Church of Rome vnderstand the Vniuersall Church He then at that time had not learned this point to hold the Church of Rome for the Catholicke Church Francisc Picus Theorem 13. saith The Church of Rome is a particular Church The obiected Scriptures answered Psal 2. 8. Aske of me and I will giue thee the heathen for thine inheritance c. Luk. 1 33 He shall reigne ouer the house of Iacob for euer and of his kingdome there shall be no end Answ Who is read in Scripture but knoweth these to be spoken of Christs Kingdome and not of the Popes iurisdiction Where is here Pope or Rome expressed But the Gagger proueth hereby the Church of Christ Catholicke which we acknowledge But saith he None of these promises haue beene so much verified as they haue beene in the Church of Rome and therefore is she onely the Catholicke Church In that he saith Not so much verified as of Rome he grants it to haue beene verified of other Churches though not so much he cannot therefore from a higher degree conclude that she is onely the Church whereof the promises are made The words are spoken of Christs Kingdom in plain termes expressed And is his Kingdome now become the Romish Iurisdiction onely His Kingdome after he assumed our nature began before the Church of Rome had a being And can any thinke that Dauid in the Psalme or the Angell speaking the words
to his Mother in Luke did dreame of a Pope-holy Father and his Churches iurisdiction Christs Kingdome was not nor is not of this world Ioh. 18. 36. but the Popes is therefore he vndertakes to be chiefe Iudge to diuide inheritances and to dispose of kingdomes which Christ refused to intermeddle in Luk. 12. 14. Moreouer his Kingdome should extend to the vttermost parts of the earth but so did neuer Romes Iurisdiction Many Christian Churches neuer subiected themselues to her many farre remote know her not nor her Pope whether a man or a woman Pope Ioane Lastly The Romish Church cannot be Christs Kingdome for that the Pope is Antichrist whose character set forth in the Scripture he seemeth so liuely to expresse that his best abetters cannot free him of that title For my part I haue laid the dogge so neere his doore that I hope hee and his Parasites See also the Answer of B. Downame vnto Leon. Lessius de Antichristo cannot beat him away See more in my poore labours vpon the Reuelation Coloss 1. 5 6. Yee heard before in the word of the truth of the Gospell which is come vnto you as it is in all the world and bringeth forth fruit c. But saith the Gagger No faith or Gospell hath or is so dilated in all the world nor hath fructified as the faith of the Romane Church hath done Answ 1. Where is in the Text Rome or the Romish Church Secondly by saying no faith or Gospell hath or is so dilated speaking in the time past and present hee playeth the deceitfull Merchant by making two different things one 1. For by the time past and most ancient must bee meant the faith and Gospell in the Church planted in other places as well as at Rome in the Apostles dayes of which this place of the Colossians speaketh and by the time present is vnderstood the faith and profession of the now Romish Church greatly differing from that which the Apostle commended then as before is manifested out of the Epistle to the Romanes Thirdly in that he saith no faith meaning this present faith for which hee onely striueth hath not been nor is so dilated in all the world fructified and growne is not true For first the true faith beginning at Ierusalem went farther being preached to euery creature vnder Heauen Col. 1. 6 23. Secondly this our present faith the very same with that Ancient faith as I See my Booke Looke beyond Luther haue proued is dilated fructified and growne more then theirs It is in both the East and West Indies it is in more Kingdomes in Europe then the Pope hath full iurisdiction in as in England Scotland with all the adiacent Ilands belonging to both Kingdomes which bee many in Ireland in Denmarke Norway Sweden Poland Lapland and in other Countreys vnder those Kings in Pomeraine in the Low Countreys in Dukedomes Princedomes and in other places in Germany Besides that it is in France and some other places of the Popes Iurisdiction So that for spaciousnesse wee be little behinde Rome Hereto are to bee added the Russian Greeke and Abyssine Churches as large as the European In those the Papacie is either vtterly vnknowne or abhorred as vehemently as by vs. Thirdly the faith and vnbeliefe of the Mahumetane Religion is beyond the Romish present faith Therefore as the Text helpeth him not so his boasting is vaine and false Rom. 1. 8. I thanke my God through Iesus Christ for you all that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world The Gagger hauing cited this place saith that Saint Paul in expresse termes calleth the faith of the whole world or Catholike faith The faith of the Romanes that is to say of the Romane Church Therefore it is onely the Catholike Church Answ 1. Note here that hee concludeth the Catholikenesse from the faith of the Church where therefore that is which then was commended must needs bee the Catholike Church holding the Catholike faith as we doe Secondly but what is this to the Romish Church now For their present faith is not that which Paul commended then This should they proue Is this good reasoning Such a mans word was of singular credit formerly with euery man Ergo it is so still when hee is growne Bankerupt Ierusalem was the ioy of the whole earth ergo it is so still Let this Gagger proue their faith now the same with that then else this place will doe them no good but rather vpbraideth their Apostasie 3. In this application of the words hee erreth grosly or rather if it be not his error through ignorance then it is wicked deceite and so worse in calling it the faith of the Church of Rome as if originally it had flowed from thence and gone out thence into the world when Saint Paul mentioneth not any going forth of this Faith from thence but that it was spoken of which is to be vnderstood of their receiuing of it as it was receiued of other Nations as is euident in Rom. 1. 5 6. where Paul speakes of the Faith among all nations among whom saith he they were called So as those at Rome were partakers with others of the common faith preached in the world and not otherwise beholden to Rome for their faith as this Gagger would insinuate to his credulous Schollers This text therefore makes Rome no more the Catholicke Church then Corinth Philippi Tessalonica c. which had receiued the same faith though their receiuing of it was not perhaps so much spoken of for the reasons afore alleadged XVII Proposition That the Church of Rome hath euer beene in perfect vnity within it selfe Confuted by their owne Bible FOr euen in the Apostles dayes when Saint Paul wrote his Epistles there were in the Romane Church some which then made dissentions and scandals contrary to the doctrine which they had learned which serued not Christ our Lord but their owne bellies Rom. 16 17 18. as yet they now doe at Rome There were vncharitable contentions and iudging of one another about things in themselues indifferent about eating and not eating as also about superstitious obseruing of dayes Rom. 14. in and about which two things a great deale of their Religion consists to this day And if shee hath beene in such vnity alwaies within her selfe how is it happened that she is become the great Whore Reu. 17. and that her Head the Pope is become that Man of Sinne 2. Thes 2. and that Antichrist the beast like a Lambe which speaketh as the Dragon Reu. 13 Contraried by Antiquity I. There is no vnity betweene the Popes and Peter whom they make their Predecessor See for this Catal. Test verit pa. 27. 62 c. Saint Peters life and the Popes compared Saint Peters Doctrine in his Epistles and the Popes Decrees together II. Not betweene Pope and Pope Not in iudgement for Martin the fift held with the Councell of Constance and Eugenius the fourth with Ferrara and Florence against the
merit of the Saints If all this were true and euidently cleere out of Scripture yet will it not follow that wee therefore may pray to them For prayer is a part of Gods worship to bee made onely to God as precepts dobindlys the patterne of all true right praying directeth and holy mens examples doe teach vs So this answer might suffice Yet that their proofes from Scripture may not deceiue the vnconsiderate I wil produce the places for all foure and make answer thereunto I. Scriptures obiected That Angels pray in particular for vs answered Zach. 1. 12. And the Angell of the Lord answered and said O Lord of Hosts how long wilt thou not haue mercy on Ierusalem and on the Cities of Iudah c Answ 1. This was a vision in the night to the Prophet verse 8. and chap. 4. 1. and so an extraordinarie thing and being so and also but a representation for the present to instruct the Prophet a reall and ordinarie act cannot bee concluded from thence Secondly these words are not a Prayer but a kinde of enquirie after the Lords purpose touching the future estate of the Church that he might enforme the Prophet thereof as by the present ensuing answer may appeare in verse 13. and the charge giuen to make the same knowne to the Church verse 14 15. for her comfort in restoring her to glory and peace verse 16 17. Thirdly grant it a Prayer it will not proue that Angels pray for vs because this Angell is not a created Angell but Iesus Christ who is often called in the Old Testament an Angell as before is shewed And that this Angell is so to bee taken is euident For first the Prophet calleth this Angell his Lord vers 9. chap. 4. 4 5. Secondly the Text calleth him the Lord and maketh this Angell and the Lord all one verse 19 20 21. Thirdly to this Angell the other gaue an account verse 11. Fourthly before this Angell stood Iosua the High Priest chap. 3. 1 3. and he is called the Lord verse 2. The Lord said vnto Satan The Lord rebuke thee Satan Tobie 12. 12. I did bring the remembrance of your prayers before the holy One Answ 1. He that is here brought in for an Angell of God in chap. 5. 12. told no better then a lye for he said he was Azarias the sonne of Ananias a mortall mans sonne He could not then be an Angell or if an Angell a lying one And as hee made a lye therein so might he doe in this chap. 12. 12 15. Secondly this place doth not proue that Angels pray for vs. For he saith not that he prayed for them but if the lyer may be beleeued he brought their prayers vnto Gods remembrance and presented them vers 15. as one taking a Petition of another man to present it to a King he is the presenter of it but not the Petitioner Thirdly this Booke is Apocrypha and suspected of idle fables such as learned Papists doe meanely esteeme of Reu. 8. 4. And the smoake of the Incense which came with the prayers of the Saints ascended from the hand of the Angell before God Answ 1. Here is no created Angell but Iesus Christ which is cleere by these reasons First from the allusion to the Priests office seruing at the Altar who was a type not of a created Angell but of Christ Heb. 9. 11. Then from the place where this Angell stands which was at the Altar to offer vpon the golden Altar which was before the Throne but the Angels are in the out circuit of the Church chap. 5. 11. as her guard to keepe her Psal 34. 7. Secondly it is not said that hee offered vp the Saints prayers but he offered vp Incense with their prayers It accompanied the Saints prayers verse 4. and the smoake of the Incense ascended vp with the prayers of the Saints Christs Spirit goeth with the prayers of the Saints like Incense and the vehemencie thereof teaching vs to pray with groanes that cannot bee expressed Rom. 8. is like smoke ascending vp before God or the Incense is Christs own intercession the smoake the efficacie thereof accompanying the Saints prayers vnto God for when wee pray he then prayeth for vs. Thirdly most of the Papists which doe write vpon this Text doe hold this Angell to be Christ Peter Bullenger Thom. Aquin. Rich. de Sancto victore Haymo Dion Carthus Viegas and many other This is nothing then for Angels praying for vs. Dan. 8. 15. When I Daniel had seene the vision c. and chap. 9. 20 21. while I was speaking in Prayer c. Answ 1. The former Text speakes nothing at all of any Angels praying but of the Angels instructing Daniel at Gods commandement chap. 8. 16 17. This was also a vision in a deepe sleepe verse 18. From whence Doctrines of Faith are not to be concluded but soundly to be taught from the literall sense of other holy Scriptures II. The latter Text sheweth that Daniel praying to God chap. 9. 20. the Angell of the Lord was sent to him verse 21. but no mention of any prayer made by the Angell for him Whether Angels pray for vs the Scripture teacheth not If wee yeeld that they doe it followes not that we should pray to See D. White his last booke in answer to Luk. 15. 10. pag. 315 316. to 1. Cor. 4. 9. pag. 317. them The Angels are sent out by God for vs they are often with vs they are helpers and by comming and going at Gods bidding they doe know our affaires here But should wee therefore pray to them it is a part of Gods worship and Angels themselues as before is proued forbid to be worshipped II. Scriptures obiected to proue that Saints departed know what is here done on earth answered Luk. 16. 29. They haue Moses and the Prophets let them heare them Answ 1. It is a Parable and a thing supposed onely not a literall History For after the very letter some things in this Parable cannot be true and therefore they cannot hence conclude a Doctrine as out of a Historie If this place will serue for Saints knowledge from Abraham how can the Papists looke on this Text hindring the people from the Scripture When first Abraham exhorts to the hearing of Moses and the Prophets Secondly denyeth the sending of the dead to instruct as Papists haue beene instructed for their feigned Purgatorie Thirdly he affirmeth that they which will not heare the Scriptures written by Moses and the Prophets will not beleeue such as rise from the dead Thus he confirmeth the authoritie of the Scriptures against wandring visions apparitions Secondly the Papists say that before Christs Ascension Abraham and the rest of the Patriarks were in the place called Limbus patrum How could Abraham know what was done in Earth when he was in the prison Perhaps by enquirie made of other Soules which came thither how the Church did and what other meanes of instruction she had then
fit this Shrift is for bawdry If any desire more reade Bishop Vshers last booke wherein is cited Gratian Iohannes Semeca Michael of Bononia Iohannes de Selua Also let him look into Doctor Whites way of the true Church of the Papists differing opinions about this pag. 440. 441. in quarto digress 55. Num. 8. and D. Whites last booke p. 190 191. Ans to Fisher 192. citing Iohn Medina Gratian and Caietan Iansenius Vasques Mich. Palacius Gloss on Gratian Gerson Panormitan Maldonat and others Scriptures obiected answered Math. 18. 18. Whatsoeuer ye shall binde on earth c. Answ 1. Here is not a word of confession in this place of Scripture but rather of accusation by another For in the words foregoing the notice giuen to the Church is from the partie not offending but offended If thy brother trespasse against thee c. tell it to the Church But all Auricular confession is supposed voluntary whereby a man accuseth himselfe and in priuate not publike as here Ioh. 20. 23. Whose sinnes ye remit c. Answ 1. Here is no mention of confession of sinnes to them Secondly the authoritie giuen here to the Apostles was exercised in the publike Ministerie preaching of the Word though they heard no priuate confession as the Papists dreame of Therefore the Apostle Saint Paul calleth the preaching of the Word the ministerie of Reconciliation 2. Cor. 5. 18. Thirdly Christ saith there As my Father sent mee so I send you Now he was not sent to heare priuate confessions and thereupon to giue them absolutions but by preaching to binde vp the broken hearted to proclaime libertie to the captiues and the opening of the prison to them that are bound Esai 61. 1. Luk. 4. 18. Neither did he binde any to priuate confession nor sate to heare the same Therefore such as he sendeth are not tyed to doe otherwise neither hath heere Popish shrift any ground Fourthly Caietan on this place saith that the Sacrament of penance hath here no commandement Act. 19. 18. And many that beleeued came and confessed c. Answ Here is mention indeed of confession but this proueth not imposed priuate confession secretly in the Priests eare For first this is of a confession voluntary not enforced Secondly of many that did it but not of all Thirdly publike and not in S. Pauls eare For as they shewed their workes and brought their bookes and burnt them before all men verse 19 So was this confession open for the Text maketh no difference of these actions Fourthly Here it is said they confessed but no particular enumeration of sinnes with circumstances Fiftly Caietan a Cardinall in his Commentarie hereof holdeth that this place is not meant of Auricular confession Iam. 5. 16. Confesse your faults one to another Answ This is nothing for the Popish confession For first it is as generall as prayer one for another But Prayer is a dutie common to all Secondly he saith not the prayer of the Priest but of a righteous man And I hope that others beside Priests are righteous men Thirdly here is not a word of absolution but a promise to the prayer of faith not to the Priests words to saue the sicke and to haue his sinnes pardoned verse 15. Fourthly confession commanded heere is not confined to a Priest but may extend to any other This Saint Iames speakes to all to whom he wrote his Epistle And this place is to be vnderstood one of these three wayes First either of Priests and people and then are the Priests bound to confesse as well to the people as the people to them For it s said Confesse one to another that is mutually or reciprocally Secondly or heere is vnderstood onely of Priests among themselues and then is there nothing to the people Thirdly or onely of the people among themselues and then is this nothing to the Priest to take authoritie hence to bind the people to confesse to him Fourthly confession here is not of secret sinnes in heart against God or sinnes hidden from men but of trespasses or offences one against another as the word in the Originall sheweth and is so taken in Marke 11. 25 26. Vpon which grieuances mutuall confession or acknowledgement of wrongs is here enioyned as a fit meanes of brotherly reconciliation and preseruation of peace among themselues To which they must adde prayer one for another that their mutuall confession reciprocally for reconciliation may bee blessed vnto them Of which practice happy are they which make conscience and blessed should we be if to this euery man would submit himselfe A harder taske then to whisper his sinnes in a Priests eare secretly Lastly the Rhemists say vpon this text that it is not certaine that S. Iames speaketh here of Sacramentall confession Wherevpon others in alledging Scriptures for Auricular confession leaue out this place as not to the purpose Mat. 3. 5 6. Then went out to him Ierusalem and all Iudea and all the Region round about Iordane and were baptized in Iordane confessing their sinnes Answ This sorteth not with Popish Auricular Confession and that for these three reasons First this was publike not in a corner of the Temple or of a Synagogue but in the place where he baptized them in Iordan before all the people Secondly this was at their first conuersion receiuing Baptisme and not yeerely at set times Thirdly it s not certaine what sinnes or how many whether in generall or particular they confessed Fourthly it was impossible for Iohn to heare euery mans priuate confession with enumeration of circumstances seeing all Iudea and all the Region about Iordane and Ierusalem went out to him meaning very many and multitudes of people Leuit. 13. 2. 14. 2. The Leper shall bee brought vnto the Priest c. Answ 1. Here is no mention of confession of sinnes but of one brought to the Priest to take a view of the Plague of Leprosie vpon the body verse 9 10. All the argument therefore that can hence be drawne is onely typicall not conuicting Secondly the partie was not to come and confesse himselfe a Leper to the Priest but the Priest was to iudge him so and to pronounce him a Leper chap. 13. 3 11 44. Then should the Leper cry and confesse not to the Priest but to the people that hee was vncleane verse 45. Thirdly this iudgement of the Leprosie by a plaine Law here belonged to the Priest But where can they shew a Law onely for their Priests to heare priuate confession after their Popish manner Fourthly the Priest looking vpon the partie was not in priuate betweene them two but before other for hee was brought vnto the Priest by others to bee viewed Fiftly the Priest did not alwayes professe the partie cleane vpon shewing his malady as the Popish Priest doth euer the Confitent vpon shewing his sins by confession but the Leuiticall Priest put the partie apart from all others a time for a tryall Leuit. 13. 4 5. and after