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A70556 A briefe or generall reply, unto Mr. Knuttons answers unto the VII. questions, about the controversie betwen the Church of England, and the separatist and anabaptist briefly discussed. By John Mabbatt. Mabbatt, John. 1645 (1645) Wing M112; ESTC R223722 35,933 39

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vaine in that they villifie and reject one of his Ordinances as matter of no worth or efficacy A. Let it be examined who speaks blasphemy and what else here is said he that speaks truth as the Truth is in Jesus or hee that reproacheth the Saints for speaking the truth as it is in Jesus it is Blasphemy to reproach the Saints Revel 13.5 6. Revel 2.9 Revel 3.9 And who is it that takes the Name of God in vaine he that speaketh Truth or he that beareth false witnesse Who nullifies the Ordinances he that priseth it from pertaking of the preciousnesse of Christ is subjected to it or hee that priseth it in Christ remote from it he that injoyes the inward life and spirituality of that Ordinance in Christ Jesus or he that sees or discovers no further then the out-side of what might agree with Circumcision whose Circumcision may be counted to him uncircumcision and so in an nullity to him Rom. 2.25 Ob. They discover hipocrisy in that they made profession formerly of the Covenant made with God in Baptisme but now since their separation disclaime it A. Let it be examined who discovereth hypocrisy he that from the grace of the Covenant of God in Christ is carried forth to professe his Covenant and Name in obedience to his Truth manifested to him or he that professeth that which hath no being or reality of it in him nor from any manifestation from God to him it should be so which they doe which professe such an Ordinance or Worship to be Gods that is not Gods nor of his appointment Isai 58.2.5 or himself in such or such a Relation unto God in such or such a thing that hee is not so in Relation unto him in as he professeth is Hypocrisy And neither in both these respects it doth not appeare First to professe that Ordinance and Worship to God which his Word hath not made out to us to be his Ordinance and if the baptisme of Children be not so 2. It holds out a profession of that thing to be which cannot appeare so to be nor is not manifested from God so to be neither by his Word commanding nor by his grace manifested that the party the Infant to be in relation unto Christ by Faith according to Mark. 16.16 beleeve and be baptized And hypocrisy by profession doth appeare most palpably in such a thing as this in that forme used in the baptisme of Children this is required of the Childe by way of Question Dost thou beleeve 〈◊〉 an Infant that hath not knowledge nor capeable of understanding nor no sensiblenesse of will to assent unto any thing Wilt thou be baptized in this saith Will your severity in this thing be acquitted before God Gal. 6.7 Ob. This their opinion is but New and upstart there is good reason they should disclaime it and be humbled for it A. The Apostles were in their time charged for new and upstart Doctrine by some should they by good reason therefore disclayme it and be humbled for it and so have denyed Christs doctrine and Truth which was not new but from the beginning Joh. 1. 1 2.1 Joh. 1.1 2 3. so might the Church of Rome have said if they did not so against Luther and others though they brought forth the Ancient Truths of the Gospel of free Justification and renouncing Transubstantiation of Christ reall presence of his flesh and blood in the bread and wine in the Supper they were counted new and upstart shall we say so and that they should have disclaimed the doctrine of free Justification and their renouncing of Transubstantiation and repented of it it was woefull in the instance of Francis Spira who owned the Doctrine of free Justification taught it yet for the feare of them that took part with Rome renounced it who was terrified in his Conscience and cryed out there was no mercy for him Again it is not new nor an upstart opinion but it is as old as the Gospel Churches who in this path walked of whom it is said in Act. 2.41 42. then they that gladly received the Word were baptized 42. vers and they continued stedfast in the Apostles Doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in Prayer Acts 8.12 QVESTION VI. Whether is it lawfull to seperate from all the publike Ordinances and Christian Assemblies in our English Church because there are some defects in Disciplin and in other things amongst us F. I Conceive it is absolutely unlawfull to relinquish Gods holy Ordinance and the Assemblies of Godly Christians in this Church of England because of our mixt Congregation and because of some defects in our Disciplin R. These two things must be made good before it can be absolutely unlawfull to relinquish First that it be a Church Assembly of Saints 2. That the holy ordinances of God are there enjoyed First for a Church Assembly of Saints such a Church Assembly as are stiled Saints by calling 1 Cor. 1 2. and as they are the matter of the Church Assembly they professe holinesse and godlinesse Rom. 1.7 But the Church of England doe not so assemble together as from a holy Call to a holy according together First called then exhorted to walke worthy of their holy Calling Ephes 4.1 and a holy according in Assembling of themselves together in holy fellowship is one thing pertaines to walking worthy the Call Ephes 4.3 1 Pet. 2.17 Heb. 12.23.24 But for that Assembly that gathers together after the Rudiments of the World and not after Christ is not the Church Assembly of Saints Collos 2.8 And that Assembly that gathers together without faith in according together in Jesus Christ after his Word Whether this be or not be is after the Rudiments of the World and therefore that Assembly which is one with the World in the worldly consideration of its Assembly of it is that from which God hath alwayes called and separated his people out of it unto himself Joh. 15.18 19. 2 Cor. 6.16 17 18. Act. 19.9 And for that where the holy Ordinances of God are injoyed is there where Christs presence is and that is where his are gathered together in his Name according to his Word Mat. 18.20 And Christ is said to walke in the mid'st of the seven Golden Candlesticks Revel 2.1 which Candlesticks are interpreted by Christ in the Revel 1.20 to be the Seven Churches and in his Church hee holds forth his Ministery and Ordinances Ephes 4.11 12. Ephes 3.10 But as in the former part of the book the Ministery of Christ that which is of his sending was considered either immediate of himself or mediately in his Church was not such In the Church of England neither there his Ordinances according to his Institution injoyed as in Reply unto Mr. Knuttons Answer unto the first and third Question in his book nor this Ordinance of Baptisme according to Christs Institution Ob. Because Jesus Christ leaves us 〈◊〉 for our defects and weaknesse Ans It is the great