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church_n doctrine_n rome_n transubstantiation_n 3,441 5 11.1236 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A64381 A true account of a conference held about religion at London, Septemb. 29, 1687 between A. Pulton, Jesuit, and Tho. Tenison, D.D. as also of that which led to it, and followed after it / by Tho. Tenison. Tenison, Thomas, 1636-1715. 1687 (1687) Wing T723; ESTC R18602 49,387 102

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time_n to_o run_v otherwise_o than_o now_o it_o do_v in_o the_o roman_a missal_n and_o to_o assert_v that_o the_o element_n be_v christi_fw-la the_o figure_n of_o christ_n body_n sècond_o for_o the_o testimony_n of_o s._n cyril_n it_o be_v not_o that_o cite_v thus_o in_o the_o speculum_fw-la s._n cyril_n alexandrinus_n etc._n etc._n for_o mr._n p._n speak_v of_o s._n cyril_n of_o jerusalem_n and_o though_o he_o do_v not_o produce_v the_o word_n yet_o he_o say_v they_o be_v those_o in_o his_o four_o mystagogical_a catechism_n i_o say_v now_o as_o i_o then_o do_v that_o the_o place_n be_v long_o ago_o full_o answer_v 52._o the_o place_n of_o s._n cyril_n be_v by_o a_o romanist_n m._n w._n thus_o render_v though_o you_o see_v it_o to_o be_v bread_n yet_o believe_v it_o be_v the_o flesh_n and_o the_o blood_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n doubt_v it_o not_o since_o he_o have_v say_v this_o be_v my_o body_n and_o for_o a_o proof_n instance_n christ_n change_a water_n into_o wine_n 237._o the_o answer_n be_v this_o and_o it_o be_v a_o true_a one_o we_o acknowledge_v thou_o the_o word_n of_o s._n cyril_n of_o jerusalem_n be_v true_o cite_v but_o for_o clear_v of_o they_o we_o shall_v neither_o allege_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o lessen_v the_o authority_n of_o that_o father_n though_o we_o find_v but_o a_o slender_a character_n give_v of_o he_o by_o epiphanius_n and_o other_o nor_o shall_v we_o say_v any_o thing_n to_o lessen_v the_o authority_n of_o these_o catechism_n though_o much_o may_v be_v say_v but_o it_o be_v plain_a s._n cyril_n design_n in_o these_o catechism_n be_v only_o to_o possess_v his_o neophytes_n with_o a_o just_a and_o deep_a sense_n of_o these_o holy_a symbol_n but_o even_o in_o his_o four_o catechism_n he_o bid_v they_o not_o to_o consider_v it_o as_o mere_a bread_n and_o wine_n for_o it_o be_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ._n by_o which_o it_o appear_v he_o think_v it_o be_v bread_n still_o though_o not_o mere_a bread._n and_o he_o give_v elsewhere_o a_o very_a formal_a account_n in_o what_o sense_n he_o think_v it_o christ_n body_n and_o blood_n which_o he_o also_o insinuate_v in_o his_o four_o catechism_n for_o in_o his_o first_o mystical_a catechism_n when_o he_o exhort_v his_o young_a christian_n to_o avoid_v
all_o that_o belong_v to_o the_o heathenish_a idolatry_n he_o tell_v that_o on_o the_o solemnity_n of_o their_o idol_n they_o have_v flesh_n and_o bread_n which_o by_o the_o invocation_n of_o the_o devil_n be_v defile_v as_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n of_o the_o eucharist_n before_o the_o holy_a invocation_n of_o the_o bless_a trinity_n be_v bare_a bread_n and_o wine_n but_o the_o invocation_n be_v make_v the_o bread_n become_v the_o body_n of_o christ._n in_o like_a manner_n say_v he_o those_o victual_n of_o the_o pomp_n of_o satan_n which_o of_o their_o own_o nature_n be_v common_a or_o bare_a victual_n by_o the_o invocation_n of_o the_o devil_n become_v profane_a from_o this_o illustration_n which_o he_o borrow_v from_o justin_n martyr_v his_o second_o apology_n it_o appear_v that_o he_o think_v the_o consecration_n of_o the_o eucharist_n be_v of_o a_o like_a sort_n or_o manner_n with_o the_o profanation_n of_o the_o idolatrous_a feast_n so_o that_o as_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o one_o remain_v still_o unchanged_a so_o also_o according_a to_o he_o must_v the_o substance_n of_o the_o other_o remain_v or_o if_o this_o will_v not_o suffice_v they_o let_v we_o see_v to_o what_o else_o he_o compare_v this_o change_n of_o element_n by_o the_o consecration_n in_o his_o three_o mystag_n catech._n treat_v of_o the_o consecrate_a oil_n he_o say_v as_o the_o bread_n of_o the_o eucharist_n after_o the_o invocation_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v no_o more_o common_a bread_n but_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n so_o this_o holy_a ointment_n be_v no_o more_o bare_a ointment_n nor_o as_o some_o say_v common_a but_o it_o be_v a_o gift_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o become_v energetical_a of_o his_o divinity_n and_o from_o these_o place_n let_v it_o be_v gather_v what_o can_v be_v draw_v from_o s._n cyril_n testimony_n and_o thus_o we_o have_v perform_v likewise_o what_o we_o promise_v and_o have_v give_v a_o clear_a account_n of_o s._n cyril_n meaning_n from_o himself_o from_o who_o own_o word_n and_o from_o these_o thing_n which_o he_o compare_v with_o the_o sanctification_n of_o the_o element_n in_o the_o eucharist_n it_o appear_v he_o can_v not_o think_v of_o transubstantiation_n otherwise_o he_o have_v neither_o compare_v it_o with_o the_o idol-feast_n nor_o the_o consecrate_a oil_n in_o neither_o of_o which_o there_o can_v be_v suppose_v any_o transubstantiation_n i_o will_v at_o present_a add_v only_o three_o or_o four_o note_n about_o this_o place_n of_o st._n cyril_n first_o that_o the_o romish_a translator_n grodecius_fw-la c._n have_v as_o shall_v seem_v to_o help_v this_o matter_n in_o his_o way_n render_v the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d by_o sub_fw-la specie_fw-la panis_fw-la &_o sub_fw-la specie_fw-la vini_fw-la under_o the_o show_n of_o bread_n and_o under_o the_o show_n of_o wine_n instead_o of_o in_o the_o type_n or_o figure_n of_o bread_n and_o in_o the_o type_n or_o figure_n of_o wine_n second_o that_o just_a before_o the_o word_n cite_v in_o favour_n of_o transubstantiation_n he_o use_v these_o but_o in_o the_o new_o not_o law_n as_o the_o translator_n have_v it_o but_o covenant_n the_o heavenly_a bread_n and_o the_o cup_n of_o salvation_n sanctify_v soul_n and_o body_n as_o the_o bread_n agree_v to_o the_o body_n so_o the_o word_n to_o the_o soul._n it_o shall_v hence_o seem_v that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n mean_v by_o st._n cyril_n be_v the_o word_n and_o that_o both_o bread_n and_o the_o word_n be_v receive_v by_o the_o communicant_a three_o that_o st._n cyril_n three_o catechise_v of_o the_o illuminate_v or_o baptize_v open_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o four_o mystagogical_n catechise_v for_o there_o he_o speak_v in_o a_o very_a high_a strain_n of_o consecrate_a water_n and_o advise_v the_o person_n to_o be_v baptize_v 〈◊〉_d to_o come_v not_o as_o to_o common_a water_n but_o as_o to_o the_o spiritual_a grace_n give_v together_o with_o the_o water_n four_o it_o be_v much_o to_o be_v doubt_v whether_o this_o be_v the_o book_n of_o st._n cyril_n of_o jerusalem_n for_o beside_o that_o gesner_n say_v he_o see_v that_o book_n in_o the_o ausburg_n library_n under_o the_o name_n of_o john_n of_o constantinople_n the_o author_n forbid_v his_o hearer_n to_o be_v frequenter_n of_o spectacle_n in_o theater_n or_o of_o horse-race_n in_o hippodrome_n for_o this_o there_o be_v no_o occasion_n at_o jerusalem_n since_o it_o have_v become_v christian_a there_o be_v especial_o in_o his_o time_n no_o such_o sport_n and_o place_n there_o that_o i_o have_v ever_o read_v of_o so_o in_o three_o quotation_n the_o two_o first_o be_v take_v out_o of_o suspect_a author_n yet_o i_o will_v allow_v the_o catechism_n to_o be_v ancient_a and_o to_o be_v ascribe_v to_o st._n cyril_n by_o sophronius_n and_o st._n hierom_n yet_o they_o note_v that_o he_o compose_v they_o in_o his_o youth_n composuit_fw-la 3._o touch_v the_o quotation_n out_o of_o justin_n martyr_n it_o be_v this_o in_o english_a and_o read_v out_o of_o the_o abovesaid_a sheet_n call_v speculum_fw-la ecclesiasticum_fw-la by_o mr._n p._n s._n justin._n etc._n etc._n i_o suppose_v in_o charity_n that_o antonio_n for_o antonino_o be_v the_o mistake_n of_o the_o printer_n but'tis_o a_o mistake_n of_o some_o body_n else_o when_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v translate_v as_o the_o word_n of_o god_n jesus_n christ_n our_o redeemer_n be_v make_v man_n etc._n etc._n instead_o of_o by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n or_o the_o divine_a spirit_n jesus_n christ_n be_v make_v flesh_n etc._n etc._n 98._o but_o to_o pass_v to_o something_o more_o material_a i_o observe_v first_o that_o the_o forego_n word_n of_o justin_n which_o be_v very_o considerable_a be_v omit_v viz._n that_o at_o the_o end_n of_o the_o eucharist_n the_o minister_n distribute_v to_o every_o one_o present_a that_o he_o may_v partake_v of_o the_o consecrate_a bread_n and_o wine_n and_o water_n etc._n etc._n justin_n call_v it_o bread_n after_o consecration_n as_o st._n paul_n do_v before_o he_o i_o observe_v second_o that_o justin_n interpret_v himself_o whilst_o he_o say_v it_o be_v not_o common-bread_n as_o if_o he_o have_v say_v it_o be_v bread_n in_o its_o nature_n but_o be_v consecrate_v and_o make_v the_o figure_n and_o pledge_n of_o christ_n body_n it_o deserve_v a_o high_a name_n and_o indeed_o this_o be_v a_o key_n to_o the_o expression_n of_o most_o of_o the_o father_n and_o particular_o to_o st._n cyril_n as_o have_v be_v already_o show_v and_o it_o be_v plain_a to_o those_o who_o read_v the_o father_n with_o attention_n that_o they_o use_v such_o language_n in_o relation_n to_o the_o water_n in_o baptism_n as_o they_o do_v in_o reference_n to_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n in_o the_o eucharist_n without_o teach_v a_o substantial_a change_n so_o greg._n nyssen_n despise_v not_o the_o divine_a wash_v nor_o make_v light_n of_o it_o as_o commmon_a b._n i_o note_v three_o that_o justin_n affirm_v of_o the_o consecrate_a bread_n and_o wine_n that_o they_o nourish_v the_o body_n and_o that_o therefore_o he_o be_v no_o teacher_n of_o transubstantiation_n which_o remove_v the_o substance_n which_o nourish_v the_o body_n and_o now_o how_o far_o be_v it_o from_o the_o true_a art_n of_o think_v and_o the_o sincere_a love_n of_o truth_n to_o draw_v a_o proof_n for_o a_o pretend_a article_n of_o faith_n from_o the_o high_a and_o hyperbolical_a phrase_n of_o the_o ancient_n by_o the_o same_o reason_n if_o the_o world_n shall_v last_v 14_o or_o 1500_o year_n man_n may_v conclude_v that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n teach_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o corporal_a presence_n as_o well_o as_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n she_o have_v use_v these_o word_n in_o the_o office_n of_o the_o communion_n at_o the_o consecration_n of_o the_o element_n grant_v that_o we_o receive_v these_o thy_o creature_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n according_a to_o thy_o son_n our_o saviour_n jesus_n christ_n holy_a institution_n in_o remembrance_n of_o his_o death_n and_o passion_n may_v be_v partaker_n of_o his_o most_o bless_a body_n and_o blood._n a_o account_n of_o doctor_n tenison_n be_v and_o doctor_n celgat_n be_v go_v to_o the_o savoy_n to_o mr._n pulton_n upon_o october_n the_o 3d._n 87._o dr._n tenison_n and_o dr._n claget_fw-ge go_v to_o the_o savoy_n about_o five_o at_o night_n after_o have_v find_v mr._n pulton_n the_o jesuit_n in_o his_o lodging_n there_o dr._n tenison_n desire_v he_o to_o call_v to_o they_o any_o one_o of_o his_o friend_n that_o he_o may_v hear_v the_o discourse_n which_o he_o be_v about_o to_o offer_v after_o be_v twice_o or_o thrice_o press_v to_o it_o by_o dr._n tenison_n he_o call_v one_o in_o the_o habit_n of_o a_o jesuit_n a_o grave_a and_o civil_a person_n his_o name_n be_v not_o ask_v then_o dr._n tenison_n apply_v himself_o to_o mr._n
keep_v my_o word_n of_o send_v my_o first_o copy_n to_o you_o and_o have_v not_o send_v abroad_o one_o single_a line_n but_o after_o your_o receipt_n of_o this_o see_v you_o have_v begin_v on_o this_o manner_n i_o will_v let_v the_o world_n know_v the_o whole_a truth_n so_o far_o as_o my_o memory_n with_o all_o due_a help_n will_v serve_v i_o and_o from_o truth_n i_o will_v not_o willing_o swerve_v a_o tittle_n for_o the_o story_n of_o my_o go_v to_o the_o savoy_n to_o ask_v your_o pardon_n it_o be_v make_v very_o common_a though_o i_o do_v not_o charge_v you_o with_o it_o and_o if_o you_o be_v curious_a about_o place_n and_o person_n i_o will_v name_v some_o of_o they_o to_o you_o i_o never_o say_v i_o come_v to_o give_v you_o a_o second_o challenge_n nor_o do_v i_o come_v to_o beg_v of_o you_o to_o forbear_v your_o talk_n of_o this_o matter_n in_o your_o pulpit_n but_o to_o expostulate_v with_o you_o about_o the_o unfitness_n of_o that_o way_n and_o to_o understand_v whether_o you_o will_v keep_v to_o the_o method_n you_o agree_v on_o at_o the_o end_n of_o our_o ramble_v talk_n rather_o than_o conference_n and_o to_o tell_v you_o that_o in_o my_o judgement_n it_o be_v most_o become_a the_o jesuit_n your_o witness_n do_v not_o differ_v from_o i_o in_o this_o opinion_n nor_o doctor_n claget_fw-ge who_o be_v i_o i_o do_v purpose_n as_o i_o tell_v you_o to_o send_v something_o to_o you_o about_o your_o account_n but_o have_v peruse_v it_o i_o perceive_v you_o may_v by_o compare_v it_o with_o i_o see_v what_o you_o omit_v what_o you_o mistake_v and_o what_o as_o to_o i_o it_o seem_v you_o sometime_o add_v i_o will_v therefore_o save_v you_o the_o trouble_n of_o my_o note_n upon_o your_o narrative_n though_o perhaps_o in_o due_a time_n i_o may_v help_v other_o who_o may_v not_o carry_v my_o account_n in_o their_o head_n with_o such_o animadversion_n i_o believe_v in_o this_o as_o you_o do_v that_o it_o may_v be_v fit_a to_o print_v the_o whole_a for_o the_o quiet_v of_o people_n who_o be_v as_o yet_o in_o suspense_n and_o see_v you_o put_v i_o in_o mind_n of_o it_o i_o resolve_v by_o that_o way_n to_o ease_v myself_o of_o the_o trouble_n of_o transcribe_v copy_n you_o have_v my_o letter_n and_o i_o you_o and_o your_o account_n and_o with_o this_o i_o send_v you_o i_o together_o with_o a_o pursuit_n of_o my_o discourse_n about_o your_o three_o first_o quotation_n do_v with_o they_o what_o you_o please_v and_o write_v what_o you_o please_v further_o and_o i_o will_v take_v the_o like_a freedom_n my_o stationer_n which_o i_o do_v but_o just_a now_o know_v of_o be_v at_o oxford_n so_o that_o i_o must_v elsewhere_o apply_v myself_o but_o this_o i_o promise_v you_o that_o as_o soon_o as_o i_o send_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o press_n i_o will_v give_v charge_n to_o the_o printer_n to_o convey_v to_o you_o by_o way_n of_o due_a notice_n the_o first_o sheet_n that_o shall_v be_v wrought_v off_o all_o thing_n on_o my_o part_n shall_v be_v fair_a and_o i_o be_o not_o your_o enemy_n unless_o which_o god_n forbid_v you_o will_v account_v i_o so_o for_o tell_v the_o truth_n but_o can_v still_o very_o heraty_o subscribe_v myself_o sir_n your_o friend_n as_o far_o as_o oblige_v by_o the_o gospel_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n tho._n tenison_n mr._n pulton_n be_v paper_n send_v in_o his_o first_o letter_n with_o dr._n tenison_n be_v animadversion_n upon_o it_o mr._n pulton_n paper_n as_o the_o concern_v i_o have_v that_o the_o truth_n may_v appear_v to_o a_o soul_n that_o be_v in_o search_n of_o it_o make_v i_o willing_a to_o enter_v on_o a_o discourse_n of_o that_o subject_a with_o you_o so_o i_o humble_o beg_v that_o nothing_o but_o charity_n and_o a_o true_a sense_n of_o zeal_n may_v appear_v in_o what_o may_v happen_v to_o be_v write_v by_o either_o of_o we_o not_o to_o the_o scandal_n but_o to_o the_o edification_n of_o all_o such_o as_o may_v peruse_v our_o paper_n you_o have_v therefore_o be_v please_v in_o our_o late_a conference_n to_o assign_v the_o holy_a scripture_n for_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n i_o desire_v of_o you_o the_o favour_n to_o know_v what_o assurance_n you_o have_v that_o the_o volume_n you_o call_v holy_a scripture_n be_v the_o undoubted_a word_n of_o god_n and_o this_o have_v be_v the_o main_a point_n of_o our_o four_o hour_n discourse_n i_o humble_o crave_v a_o more_o clear_a and_o positive_a answer_n than_o i_o can_v then_o obtain_v you_o be_v please_v to_o say_v the_o bible_n have_v be_v hand_v down_o to_o you_o from_o the_o apostle_n then_o i_o desire_v the_o favour_n to_o know_v who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v so_o hand_v it_o down_o to_o you_o you_o reply_v the_o universal_a church_n whereupon_o i_o demand_v what_o you_o mean_v by_o the_o universal_a church_n you_o answer_v that_o you_o mean_v all_o those_o several_a body_n who_o make_v up_o the_o number_n of_o christian_n then_o i_o far_o press_v to_o know_v whether_o all_o these_o make_v up_o one_o true_a church_n or_o no._n you_o say_v there_o be_v something_o true_a in_o each_o of_o they_o but_o will_v assign_v none_o void_a of_o great_a corruption_n upon_o which_o i_o reply_v that_o the_o volume_n which_o whole_o rely_v on_o corrupt_a authority_n can_v have_v no_o assurance_n of_o be_v the_o pure_a true_a and_o certain_a word_n of_o god._n and_o here_o we_o stick_v near_o 2_o hour_n i_o never_o be_v able_a to_o obtain_v a_o satisfactory_a answer_n i_o humble_o therefore_o crave_v to_o be_v satisfy_v 10._o whither_o receive_v the_o scripture_n from_o the_o universal_a church_n you_o have_v receive_v a_o canon_n common_a to_o all_o distinct_a body_n of_o christian_n if_o not_o that_o you_o far_o explicate_v what_o you_o mean_v by_o take_v the_o scripture_n from_o the_o universal_a church_n 20._o how_o the_o universal_a church_n consist_v in_o member_n disagree_v in_o faith_n can_v give_v you_o a_o true_a and_o certain_a rule_n of_o faith._n 30._o if_o when_o you_o begann_v you_o pretend_a reformation_n there_o be_v 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mr._n p._n may_v please_v to_o answer_v dr._n t._n in_o this_o point_n about_o the_o church_n of_o the_o literal_a israel_n beside_o which_o there_o be_v then_o no_o other_o church_n and_o enlighten_v he_o by_o the_o resolution_n of_o this_o query_n whether_o there_o may_v be_v a_o reformation_n in_o a_o church_n without_o leave_v of_o it_o the_o learned_a dr._n jackson_n say_v it_o long_o ago_o 870._o that_o our_o church_n be_v in_o the_o romish_a church_n before_o luther_n time_n and_o yet_o in_o it_o neither_o as_o a_o visible_a church_n altogether_o distinct_a from_o it_o nor_o as_o any_o native_a member_n of_o it_o to_o his_o argument_n and_o explication_n at_o present_a i_o refer_v mr._n p._n though_o there_o be_v other_o of_o other_o kind_n of_o equal_a weight_n and_o clearness_n for_o the_o rest_n the_o aforesaid_a account_n of_o the_o conference_n will_v show_v how_o far_o this_o paper_n of_o mr._n pulton_n be_v true_a and_o whether_o it_o contain_v a_o fair_a proposal_n 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