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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33979	A supplement to a little book entituled, A reasonable account why some pious nonconforming ministers cannot judg it lawful for them to perform their ministerial acts in publick solemn prayer, ordinarily, by the prescribed forms of others : wherein is examined whatsoever Mr. Falconer in his book called, Libertas ecclesiastica, and Mr. Pelling in a book called, The good old way, have said to prove the ancient use of forms of prayers by ministers : and it is proved, that neither of the two aforementioned authors have said anything that proveth the general use, or imposition of such forms of prayer in any considerable part of the church, till Pope Gregories time, which was six hundred years after Christ, nor in any church since the reformation, except that of England, and (which is uncertain) some in Saxony.	Collinges, John, 1623-1690.; Falkner, William, d. 1682. Libertas ecclesiastica.; Pelling, Edward, d. 1718. Good old way.	1680 (1680)	Wing C5343; ESTC R18940	53,644	120

to those Numerical words or syllables Luther and Calvin's use proveth it not I hope but yet we think we may lawfully use any form of Gods prescription the question is Whether we may use no other nor that with the least variation Our Brother's second argument is yet weaker The Disciples said Lord teach us to pray as John taught his Disciples What then was it not an apposite answer for him to tell them That now they must call God Father and pray that his Name might be sanctified his Kingdom come his will be done c. unless he set them a form of words to which they might not add nor diminish The Disciples did not say Lord tell us what words and no other we must use in prayer But thirdly saith our Brother our Saviour gives in the phrase of prayer but doth this conclude so do we sometimes give our Children forms which we desire not they should use as forms but directions to speak to the like purpose For Cyprian Tertullian and Gregory who lived 300 400 800 years after Christ they were not like to know Christs intention in this more than we and for their use of it as a form We do not think it unlawful to use those intire words and phrases as a part of our prayers nor indeed any other Scriptural forms of words that are proper But on the other side are they not two great presumptions that our Saviour never intended it as a form 1. That we never read in Scripture that it was so used afterward 2. That the name of Christ in whose name Joh. 16. we are commanded to pray is not in it unless by implication as it hath been in all prayers of the Church since the Ascension of Christ the prayers concluding for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ To compremise this business I believe it was as a form given to the Disciples being then but children and not perfectly instructed to the Kingdom of God and they might or might not use it as a form until they should be more fully instructed and inabled but not with any obligation upon them or the Church after them necessarily to use those numerical words in that order nay that after Christs Resurrection it was their duty to add something more to their prayers asking plainly and expresly in the name of Jesus Christ For he tells them Joh. 16. 24. Hitherto you have asked nothing in my name how could that be true if they had used the Lords-prayer till then and the petitions there had been so put up in the name of Christ as appears to have been his will now vers 23. Our Brothers next instance is pag. 103 104 105. from the example of the Jewish Church here he tells us That the Jews did use prayers with their sacrifices and had their hours of prayer These things he proveth well from Lev. 1. 10. Act. 3. 1. and that Aaron was to confess the sins of the people over the live-goat Lev. 16. 21. What is all this to the purpose none doubts but that Priests and people prayed under the Old Testament as well as the New But the question is Whether by stated forms or no 2. He tells us there are evidences in Scripture of such forms 2 Chron. 29. 30. The King commanded the people to praise God with the words of David and Asaph That is with such and such portions of holy writ do not all men grant that some parts of holy Writ may be sung in publick Worship The Nonconformists will allow no other he instanceth in Joel 2. 17. Hos 14. 2. Deut. 21. 8. Deut. 26. 3 4 5 13 14. It is true in all these Texts there are some short very short forms of prayer as they lye before us they are so But 1. can our Reverend Brother think so short phrases or sentences as some of them are were ever used as the only solemn prayer used at that time 2. Is there any Record that they were ever syllabically used 3. Is it said you shall use these words and no other 4. Is it not ordinary for us in our Sermons directing people only to what sense to pray in our Sermons to say Go to God and say c. and then give them a short prayer which we never intend they should use as a form 5. Is it not reasonable to think this was all intended in these passages when we consider the length and solemnity of the Prayers recorded in Scripture of Solomon Ezra Daniel Hezekiah Jehoshaphat For the practice of the Jews in later days I shall only say this 1. That he knows how little credit is to be given to any testimony of the Rabbins and what time the earliest writings of theirs appear'd 2. How ill their practice can be pleaded who our Saviour saith worshipped God vainly teaching for Doctrines the Traditions of men 3. That I observe Luk. 4. 16. that when our Saviour at Nazareth went into the Synagogue the Clerk did not bring him any Common-prayer-book but the book of the Prophet Isaias which he made use of § 6. Let us now leave these pretences of more ancient proof and come to consider what hath indeed been the practice of the Church since the Apostles times for our Reverend Brother thinks it probable that while the miraculous gifts of the Spirit continued Prayer was performed by them For the time succeeding the Apostles it must be divided into three periods 1. The first is the purer period of it before the Bishop of Rome got fully into Saddle this as to Doctrine held to a great degree for 500 years but as to Rites and Ceremonies scarce half so long as we shall possibly shortly shew 2. The second is the depraved period of it which was for a 1000 years as to Doctrine 1200 and more as to some matters of Rites and Government 3. The Reformed period of it which was from the year 1516 and is yet going on For the first of these Periods we have not so full and clear an evidence of what was the practice of the Church as we could desire For though it was after the year 600 that the Bishop of Rome got the Title of Vniversal Bishop and some years after that before the Church of Rome was furnished with all her present accoutrements and 1200 before Transubstantiation was setled Yet betwixt that and 1500 they had time enough to burn all the Writings of the Ancients from which the practice of the Primitive Church might appear to us or so to correct them and interpolate that we might see little or nothing that could be made use of to shew the Novelties of their Doctrine and practice yet Bernardus non vidit omnia some things scaped their eye or correction of which our Divines make good use Let us see what our Reverend Brother produceth for the first 300 years which all Divines say was the most pure times of the Church It is not our part to prove the Negative it lyeth upon our Brethren to

and ignorant as to the generality of their Ministers they made it their business to put out and put in to the Writings of the ancients what they pleased to forge Writings to be theirs which were not so and suppress others that were so which is evident from the Writings of Papists as well as Protestants Sixtus Senensis Possevine Bellarmine were all Papists so was Erasmus Rivet and Cocus were Protestants they have all books extant to teach us to distinguish betwixt the true Writings of the Ancients and those pretended to be theirs but not so And there is no doubt but it was through meer carelesness if they left a word or line in the ancients against any point of Doctrine any way of Worship any Rite or Ceremony in credit at Rome or used in their Church 5. From them came Justin Martyr Ignatius Clement Tertullian Ambrose Augustine in short all the Writings of the Fathers we have except possibly some two or three of the Greek Fathers yet the most famous and common Editions of them are all Popish and come out to us with their puttings out and puttings in what they pleased 6. From hence will appear what little credit is to be given to any thing in any of the books published under their names any further than it is agreeable with the Scripture and bottomed there 7. Allow me the Editions of the Fathers and Councils which the Papists have let us have I hardly know one Doctrine of Popery or one Idolatrous or Superstitious Practice Rite or Ceremony at Rome but I will bring as good proof for as either Mr. Faulconer or Mr. Pelling have brought for the Antiquity of forms of prayer generally used 8. From hence it follows that those who lay such stress on this point of Antiquity in the case are but doing the Papists work laying a foundation for the Papists to build all their abominable Doctrines Idolatries and Practices upon and he is half a Papist that is resolved to believe all those things true which may be found in the ancient Writings as we have them We have so much charity for those great and holy men as to believe they never wrote any such things though some Popish Monks and Fryers have fathered them upon them 9. If any will yet believe what they find in their Works as we now have them he stands obliged not to do it rashly but to read 1. what both Papists and Protestants have wrote as to that book of theirs out of which the Quotation is 2. Then to consider what was the signification of the words Liturgy Merit Offices and an 100 more in that age and whether we have not put a new sense upon them not known in their times 3. To consider how far in the judgment of Protestants the Church was corrupted in the times when those Fathers wrote 10. This I take to be a tedious work the Prophet Isa 8. 20. hath taught me a nearer and safer course To the law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them Does any say but how will you know the sense of the Scriptures I answer from my own conscience and reason comparing things spiritual with things spiritual and hearing the judgments of others before I determine Will they say but you may be deceived it is true so might the Fathers but in things necessary if I use prayer I have a promise The Spirit shall lead you into all truth I am sure I can from Scripture be as certain of the Will of God in any case as I can be that any one leaf of the Fathers were ever written by them and if it were I am sure they were fallible men as well as I and in many things did err The pressing and laying so much stress as men do some men on authority and antiquity is in truth nothing but a mighty facturing for Popery and it is impossible but learned men must understand so much Besides not one often who talks so much of the Fathers and antiquity regards what Edition he quotes or makes use of and all know that where there is one of the Ancients to be got so much as of Erasmus his Edition who was a Papist but seemeth just and honest there are ten of filthy and most corrupt Popish Editions where the Reader can safely trust nothing And thus much shall serve for Mr. Pelling for I am not concerned as to what he saith for the English Liturgy let it be as fine a thing as it will if it be unlawful for me to use any in my Ministration in prayer it is most certainly unlawful for me to use that and at that boundary I stick till better reason than I have yet met with removes me from it FINIS For the Reverend his very Worthy Friend c. SIR YOU must think me either very regardless of the Obligations you have laid on me or which I had rather chuse very inconcerned in the New Argument for Forms of Prayer from Matth. 26. 44. that I should put you to the trouble of a second Letter to mind me not to overlook it and particularly to give you my thoughts upon it Indeed Sir the Argumentation from it savours fo little of a Scholar or a rational man that I did not think you in earnest But calling to mind that the Gentlemen we have to do with think they have a conclusive argument in the case from the ●… Apostles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 command that prayers should be made for all men 1 Tim. 2 which surely may be made by each Minister for his Congregation and shall not need be prescribed in a book and what your self told me that you heard a late Bishop of Bath and Wells say That it was very probable that the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Parchments left at Troas which St. Paul took such care Timothy should bring were the Church-prayers or Liturgy forgetting as you well note that there St. Paul prayed some time without them I began to assume some more deliberate thoughts of that Text Mat. 26. especially reading what you write that you had once met with it in Print and had often heard it in Sermons and Conferences For Sermons men now-a-days use more Rhetorick than Logick but methinks in Prints and Conferences they should be more Logical Let me therefore consider the Text Mat. 26. 44. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we translate it saying the same words so saith Mark 14. 39. Luke mentioneth but one prayer Now Sir how 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 can be translated the same words judg you it must be the same word if any thing ●nd we know though our Saviours prayer were very short yet there was more than one or two words in it But Sir this Topick speaks either a very great ignorance or a wilful design to lead others to mistake in those that use it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth not signifie always a syllabical word but the thing

is granted but whereas our Author saith That we may as well conclude from our Act of Vniformity as from these Councils that they gave the first original to forms of Prayer because they are thereby established We answer If in England we had not had the use of forms of Prayer established by the Canon-law in times of Popery and by Acts of Parliament in the time of Edw. 6. and Q. Elizabeth under favour we think we might have concluded that the Act of Vniformity 1662 had given the first original to such an imposition or use And till our Author which he hath not yet done can bring us any Canon of ancient date that commands such an universal use of forms of Prayer in any considerable part of the Church we hope we may conclude that this was the original of such commands or usage and this was in the fifth Century when the truths in matter of Doctrine as well as Rites were in a great measure corrupred as I may possibly shew hereafter But for this Council too It is true there was a Council held at Mela 402 years after Christ in the time of Pope Innocent the first if we may believe Caranza Chytraeus and others it was held when Arcadius and Honorius were Emperours That Province was as to the Ministry unmeasurably tainted with Pelagianism their eight first Canons are against his Doctrine it will not be amiss to give the Reader the sum of those Canons from whence he may judg That it was reasonable that until the Church could be purged of that leaven considering the great corruption of the Ministers such a restriction should be put upon the Ministers of that Province as to their publick prayers Can. 1. It pleased all the Bishops met together in this Synod to ordain what things were defined in this Synod That whosoever shall say that the first man Adam was made mortal so as whether he sinned or no he should die not because of the merit of sin but from a necessity of nature Let him be Anathema Can. 2. It also pleased them That if any shall deny that young Infants are to be baptized or shall say that they are baptized for the remission of sins but they draw no such original sin from Adam which should be washed away in the laver of Baptism from whence it followeth that in them the form of Baptism for the remission of sin is not tru ' but false Let him be Anathema Because what the Apostle saith can be no otherwise understood than as the Church hath always understood it Rom. 5. By one man sin entred into the world and death by sin and so death passed over all men because all had sinned For by reason of this rule of faith little ones who have actually committed no sin are therefore truly baptized for the remission of sins that the filth contracted by Generation may be cleansed away by Regeneration Can. 3. It also pleased them c. That if any one say that the Grace of God by which we are justified by Jesus Christ our Lord was only of force for remission of sins which are committed and not also for our assistance against future commissions he should be Anathema Can. 4. If any one shall say That the grace of God through Jesus Christ doth no further help us against sinning than as it revealeth to us and openeth our understanding to understand the commandments of God that we may know what to desire and to avoid and that it is no effect of grace to enable us to love and to do what we know we ought to do let him be Anathema For whereas the Apostle saith Knowledg puffeth up Charity edifieth It is impious to believe that there is a word of the grace of God for that which puffeth up and none for that which edifieth both being the gift of God both to know what we ought to do and to love to do it that through the edifying of love our knowledg may ●…t puff us up As it is written concerning God That he teacheth man knowledg so it is also written Love is from God Can. 5. It also pleased them to Decree That if any shall say that we are therefore justified by Grace that we may more easily by Grace fulfil what we are commanded to do by the power of our own will although if grace were not given though it would not be easie yet it would be possible to fulfil the commands of God let him be Anathema For our Lord speaketh concerning obedience to Gods commandments when he saith Without me you can do nothing He doth not say Without me you cannot without difficulty do any thing Can. 6. It also pleased them c. That whereas St. John saith If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves and the truth is not in us whosoever shall say this is the sense That out of humility we ought to say we have no sin Let him be Anathema For it followeth and is added by the Apostle But if we confess our sins he is just and righteous to forgive them and to purge us from all iniquity From whence it is plain that the Apostle speaks not of speaking in humility but speaking in truth For the Apostle might have said If we say we have no sin we extol our selves and there is no humility in us But he saying We deceive our selves and there is no truth in us he plaine●● sheweth that he who saith he hath no sin did not speak truth but what was false Can. 7. It also pleased them c. That whosoever should say that the Saints in the Lords-Prayer praying Forgive us our sins do not speak it for them for it is not for them necessary but for other sinners in the congregation and therefore the several Saints do not say Forgive me my sins but forgive us our sins that the righteous man might be understood not to put up that petition so much for himself as for others Let him be Anathema For St. James was holy and righteous when he said In many things we offend all Why doth he say all but that his sentence might agree with that in the Psalm Enter not into judgment with thy servant O Lord because in thy sight shall no flesh be justified And that in Solomon's Prayer There is none that liveth and sinneth not And that in Job He sealeth up the head of all men that every man might know his infirmity Vpon which holy and righteous Daniel speaking in his Prayer in the Plural Number saith We have sinned we have done wickedly c. What he speaketh there he speaketh both truly and humbly and that none might think as some now do that he did not speak of his own but of his peoples sins he afterwards saith When I pray'd and confessed my sins and the sins of my people unto the Lord our God He would not say our sins but my sins and the sins of my people as a Prophet foreseeing there would be some arise

as now who would ill understand it Can. 8. It also pleased them c. That if any should say That the words of the Lords Prayer Forgive us our debts are only used by the Saints to signifie their humility not to express a truth Let him be Anathema For how can one be induced in prayer to lye and that not to men but to God with his lips desiring that his sins might be forgiven him when in heart he thought he had no sins to be forgiven I have been a little more large in this story because I am pretty confident and dare challenge all our adversaries to give us but one proof that any part of the Church before this time assembled in any Council took upon them to impose Forms of Prayer to be used by all Ministers within their Jurisdiction If some men made themselves Forms and used them they yet served God in their Ministry in the use of their own gifts this signifieth just nothing to our case who have known divers worthy men do the like We have now the case here was a Council of worthy men all relating to the Province of Numidia who met at Mela. The occasion of their meeting was the woful spreading of the Doctrine of Pelagius who denied Original Sin Assisting Grace or that justified persons could sin or need beg the pardon of sin Many if not the greatest part of their Ministers were tainted with these Opinions In this distress to stop the diffusing this venom and that the people through the error ignorance or carelesness of their Ministry might not be without any to go before them in publick prayers who could or would put up due confessions or necessary petitions for them having first in eight Canons condemned the Doctrines of Pelagius they make their twelfth Canon in these terms It also pleased them c. That those prayers or Masses or Prefaces or Commendations or Impositions of hands which shall be approved in the Council be used of all and that no other be used in the Church but what shall be treated on and approved in a Synod lest perhaps something should be composed contrary to the true faith either through ignorance or carelesness I observe 1. That this Canon extends to all Ministerial services not to prayers only as to all they were limited to forms 2. That it was not to any forms that before this time had been enjoined or used in this or in any other Church but such as should first be treated of and approved in a Synod or Council 3. That it was done in a case of woful distress when the Ministers were known to be so corrupted in their judgments that they could neither put up such confessions or supplications as they ought they could not confess original sin nor pray for assisting grace nor for pardon of sins renewing after Justification 4. I observe this was in the fifth Century and if we will believe Vossius it must be after 505 for he saith Histor Pelag. l. 1. c. 3. that in that year Chrysostome being in banishment and near his death he first spread his Doctrines Others make it 402. It must be in the Popedom of Innocent 1. who was not Pope 18 months for Aurelius was President there in the notion of his Legate Take this story in its circumstances it 's far from a justifiable authority to maintain that it was the judgment of the Church in the purer ages That forms of prayer might be lawfully enjoined all Ministers whether under such circumstances or no. Their ends were that the poor people might have due prayers put up for them and be taught the Doctrine of Original sin the impotency of mans will to what was spiritually good the need of assisting grace that they sin seven times a day and had need beg pardon That original sin might in prayer be confessed and the impotency of human nature to that which is truly good with their daily renewing sins that so pardon might be beg'd for them and assistance of Divine grace against them and unto spiritual duty How should this end have been obtained in that corrupted state but by set-forms of Prayers and Sermons too Should they on the sudden have turned out all these Ministers it is not probable they on the sudden could have found enough fitted for the work Because in this exigent this Council judged it lawful shall it therefore be concluded to b● the judgment even of those few Bishops in that Council That it is lawful for any in any state of a Church to do the like Besides what hindred but that according to this Canon every Minister might compose his own prayers and bring them to be approved in a Council § 11. The truth is this proved a sad president all know how long Peldgius his Doctrine spread a very great part of the Church how many Councils assembled against it 'T is very probable other Churches followed this Canon not in force of it for it could oblige none but the Province of Numidia but as thinking it lawful till at length as the Grandieur of the Romish Bishops required a pack of ignorant and sottish Ministers of which there was a remarkable plenty in the sixth and seventh age it crept into a custom and a piece of Ecclesiastical Common Law But we shall hereafter shew that the practice of the visible Church after 400 years in Rituals is not very imitable by those that will make the word of God a light to their feet but we must go back a little to consider what our Author insinuates p. 105. of the Liturgies which the Papists have invented in all probability and intituled St. Peter St. James and St. Mark and St. John too as also those which they have intituled St. Chrysostome St. Basil and St. Ambrose to● § 12. For the former our Reverend Brother speaketh thus pag. 105. And I yield it most probable though even Protestant writers herein differ that the ancient Roman Jerusalem and Alexandrian Offices were called the Liturgies of St. Peter St. James and St. Mark because of their certain early use in the Churches where they presided though it is not certain they were composed by them this being mentioned by no ancient writer of the first Centuries Nor do I doubt but the Liturgy or Anaphoca of St. John and that of the twelve Apostles are supposititious From which I observe 1. That if during the time that the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost lasted the Ministerial Services were by the Apostles performed by them it is very absurd to say Peter James Mark and John who all were possessed of them prayed by prescribed forms 2. I observe our Reverend Brother I hope unadvisedly hath granted here the Papists a great point That Peter was the first Bishop of Rome for he calls Rome the Church where he resided for we know James resided at Hierusalem Mark at Alexandria this is both a liberal and groundless grant Magni hoc mercentur Achivi 3. Did Saint

be used and of our opposing our judgment against the concurrent judgment and practice of the Church of Christ in so many several Ages and Nations and against the determination of God himself under the Old Testament and our blessed Saviour under the New These words are not the words of Truth and Soberness nor do they savour of that spirit of Truth and Love which we always had thought did dwell in our Brother For if he means that the Ministers and Christians of all ages have thought it lawful and expedient to draw up forms of Prayer that by them the weaker might be taught to pray nay that those Ministers or People who have not attained that gift may use them still coveting and labouring for that gift until they have attained it none will deny it But all this is nothing to the purpose I know no Nonconformist will deny it but say Let them be in the Church and for that use still The Nonconformists in their Debates upon his Majesties Commission would never have tendred some Emendations of our Liturgy to the Bishops much less a new Liturgy or form if they had been of this mind But if our Reverend Brother means that they have been in the Church required to be used by all the Ministers in their publick Ministration in all ages or in those ages before the Corruptions Idolatry and Superstition of the Papists crept in there is not the least proof made either by our Reverend Brother or any else that we could ever see of a word of truth in the assertion § 17. Let us now take a view of the State of the Church from the year 500 to the year 1500 and see whether the Church was then in such a State that we may conclude all lawful that was during that time admitted in practice All Protestants will deny it especially from the year 700. But let us examine a little In the 5th Century they had got Images into Churches at Constantīnople The Image of the Manger which Chrysostome complains of and of the Virgin Mary saith Nicephorus they had got Altars also Augustine Chrysostome and Salvian often mention them they had also got in Candles using holy Water in Baptism they had also got in Vnction and the custom of giving the Lords Supper to children after Baptism together with the wearing of a white garment after that Sacrament They in many places mingled water with the wine in the Supper Exorcisms were also crept in as Augustin tells us lib. 20. de Civ Dei Lent also crept in in this age as we learn from Augustine Cyril Chrysostome and Maximus Nicephorus tells us also of abundance of Reliques now in fashion Monks and Monasteries began in this age to be very thick The Doctrine of the Church was miserably invaded by Pelagius They began in this age to put only single persons into Ministry in the Latin Church as we may learn from the Council of Toledo from Augustine and Leo. They had now also brought in many new orders of Ministers Acolecthi Exorcists Subdeacons c. From the year 500 to the year 600 we shall yet find a stranger face of the Church the Doctrines of Freewill Justification by works Prayers to the dead Satisfactions for sin Purgatory c. were in this age preached In this age came in the Dedications and Consecrations of Churches the Consecration of Wells for Baptism the Oyl and Chrysm the Consecrations of Altars Cups Corporals the Mass offerings for the dead the seven Letanies Rogations the seven Canonical hours In short almost the whole fardel of the Popish Superstitions It is no great charge to any conscientious man to say he differs in some things from the Ruling part of the Church 5 or 600 years after Christ and that he judgeth it both inexpedient and unlawful for him to do what they did in 40 particulars We must now take our leave of the Romish Synagouge from whose practices at this time all Protestants in the world differ in a multitude of things both as to Doctrine Worship and Discipline we must go seek for the true Church the next 1000 years in the Valleys of Piedmont in France in the Provinces of Languedec Provence and Dauphiny amongst the Albigenses the poor people of Lions and the Waldenses indeed mostly in the Valleys of Piedmont where we shall find them coopt up in the time of Innocent the Third after St. Dominick had fired him to engage Simon Montford with the French Kings leave to destroy some hundred thousands of them those that escaped went to their Brethren in the Valleys of Piedmont some of them possibly got into Bohemia amongst the Taborites Piccards c. Nor could I ever meet with any that could give me account of any Liturgies they used or which were imposed on them or by them nor do I remember that the Piccards when they came to Luther about 1520 or the Deputies of those of Piedmont when they came to advise with Oecolampadius 1530 though they gave him an account of their Faith Rites and Order yet ever mentioned any thing of Liturgy yet these two bodies of people are the only visible Church we can give any account of retaining any Degrees of Purity in Doctrine Worship or Discipline for a thousand years which is double the time that the Church kept any degrees of Purity after Christ We will freely grant that after the year 600 the Mass-book was Canonically imposed by Pope Gregory and within 200 years more by Charles the Great and except in the Valleys of Piedmont and in Bohemia the Priests generally both used that and after 1200 made their Maker worshipped Images prayed for the Dead and prayed to Saints said their Service in Latin But I hope it is no prejudice to any Protestant that he owns no relation to the Church that did so for a thousand years together and doth so still And now our Reverend Brother sees what his concurrent testimony of the Church in all ages comes to till the year 1520 or thereabouts for ten of those fifteen ages we hope our Reverend Brother agreeth with them no better than we and if he will leave Rome and follow the Woman into the Wilderness where God hid her for 1260 days he will find no Liturgy she carried with her or commanded all her Ministers there to use If our Brother will resolve to abide with the Red Dragon that hath seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns after he hath with his tail drawn down the third part of the Stars of Heaven we mean no more than keep his eye only upon the stately company at Rome that after the year 600 call'd themselves falsly the true Church the only Catholick Church we cannnot help it We believe that all along God had his number of hidden ones within the challenged Jurisdiction of that Church but for the visible governing part of them we leave them soon after Gregory's time believing them far more like a Synagogue of Satan than a

Author saith next wherein he undertakes a thing beyond all men viz. to prove That in the Apostles times and in the interval betwixt the burial of the Jewish Synagogue and the setting up of the Christian Church set-forms of Divine Service he should have said of Prayers for all Ministers were allowed also Aude aliquid brevibus gyni carcere dignum Si vis esse aliquis I know none hath undertaken this neither Dr. Hammond nor Mr. Faulconer this Notion is but a Probationer to the world Let us examine what Arguments he hath 1. His first proof is from the Apostles going to the Temple to worship and pray Acts 2. 46. Acts 3. 2. and 2. the Apostles justifying themselves Acts 25. 8. 24. 12. 28. 17. that they had nothing against the temple or the law and 3. the Jews tenaciousness of their Rituals all which are proved well enough p. 63 64. But how will our Author prove that the Jewish Ministers in their Temple-service used any prescribed forms of prayer which others had made for them and enjoyned them who were no inspired Prophets or Penmen of holy Writ He hath not yet proved this Or how will he prove that the Apostles themselves in the Temples or Synagogues ministred at any time by such forms we will prove they sometimes preached there but it lyes upon our Author to prove they read prayers for that we find not and we grant they may hear prayers that are forms if the matter be good It is a sign of an ill cause or a weak Disputant to pack on proof where none needed but bring none where all the pinch and stress lay Our Author here takes it for granted what is most notoriously false That the Apostles constantly attended the Jewish Service both in the Temple and Synagognes only met together in other places for the Sacrament and such service as they could not joyn with the Jews in but that is not to our purpose nor yet to examine how well by his Dial he hath rectified the Sun translating 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Acts 2. 46. in the house not from house to house nor at home as Beza But he is not satisfied that in the Christian Assemblies in the Apostles times there were no manner of forms Who says there were not There was a form of sound Doctrine which the Apostle tells us of there were Psalms Hymns and spiritual Songs in forms they are the three titles of Davids Psalms we have nothing to do with any thing but forms of prayer made by some particular Ministers or Church Officers to be used by all other Ministers He comes a little to the point p. 67. His first pretended proof is what divers have touched upon before him 1 Tim. 2. 12. we grant him from that Text 1. That the several sorts of prayers are there mentioned 2. That these several duties were to be done prayers of these several sorts to be made for offices observed that term seems to suggest something else not in the Text But whereas he goes on and tells us in the third place p 68. That it is as clear that the whole Church of Christ hath conceived and taken it for granted in all ages that the Apostle in this place did intend to fix a rule of Devotion and did order a Platform and Model to be observed in all publick Services and especially at the celebration of the holy Communion if he means a platform of words and phrases not to be varied from It is so far from being clear that no proof can be brought of it nor do as himself confesseth the Apostles words inforce any such belief nor his following quotations out of Chrysostome Ambrose or Augustine prove the least of it All rests upon the practice of the Church since for which indeed much may be said after 600 years after Christ but nothing of any weight or moment before that time And for the Churches judgment in Pope Gregory's time as to Rituals it is a very ill proof of what was done in the Apostles time in all Protestants judgments Our Author goes on still and will not say it is demonstrable but he tells us it seems very probable that the Apostles themselves did in their ordinary Ministrations observe forms of prayer notwithstanding those extraordinary assistances of the spirit which they were blest with Strange the Apostles what men that received not their Ministry of men nor by men but immediately from Christ then he must give them their forms men that hath those extraordinary effusions of the spirit Surely there is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 some Divine thing in prescribed forms or those that speak thus must use the same Art with us to perswade us to their Lure that Romulus used with his silly Romans who to perswade them to accept his Laws made them believe that he had them from the Goddess Ageria Well but our Author doth not believe they used a book we thank him for that the Parchments that St. Paul left at Troas then shall not rise up in judgment against us though his Cloak may nor doth he think they tyed themselves to words but this they must if they used forms of words all that he will assert that they used a certain method and the matter and substance of their ordinary services was for the most part the same We thank him for nothing then Nonconformists use forms of prayer as well as Conformists we shall never need examine his reasons when we grant the thing for if they be strong it is but to confirm what none doubteth if weak it would be but to expose an Author whose book seems to be calculated for his reputation Thus far I have examined all the pretended proof from Antiquity rather ex abundanti and to satisfie some peoples curiosity than for any other reason And in the close let me give my Reader a caution against this kind of arguing which I doubt not but will appear very reasonable 1. The Reader must know that Printing hath not been known in the world yet 200 years before that time all was in Manuscripts 2. The most of the Manuscripts were in Papists hands and from them it is that the Copies came which were printed indeed the Bible was in the Jews hands as to the Old Testament we were infinitely acurate in preserving the purity of it keeping account both of the numbers of lines in pages and how often the same letter was used in each line the New Testament was in the hands of the Greek Churches as well as the Papists so that they could not well deprave that 3. That as the Church was debauching in some rituals before 300 years after Christ was expired so ever since 600 it hath been debauched much in Doctrine more in matters of Worship Rites Ceremonies and Government 4. That from the year 600 to 1516 the generality of all ancient Manuscripts being in their hands and that Church all along growing worse and worse more sottishly idolatrous superstitious