that hath but common reason in him will see it is to no purpose at all But that other happily may stand him in stead and the scope of that is to declare the interest of Christs Church to all things according to the Scriptures direction alwaies provided And what then then people may make themselves the Church of Christ or pretend at least so to be and then they are so interessed forthwith in all things The Romish Church can make as large claim as they in this matter and speak as much for themselves surely if persons in earthly cases could do the like there would not be a few found in such claimes and pretences but they would by wise men be thought sitter for Bedlam then any place else In further answer I say that was spoken of the Church of Corinth and so is true of all other Churches gathered and instated by Christ in an orderly way by such means and instruments as had authority from him But what is this to persons that want this jnstating by such instruments in such a way Truly no more then it could for those that called themselves Jewes and were not or then it would have availed Rev. 3. 9. the Heathen of old to have injoyed the priviledges with the Jewes in Gods holy things in particular of building the Temple to whom it was told it was not for them to build c. It cannot be imagined that such large priviledges should according to due order Esr 4. 3. appertain to such the Scripture being wholly silent concerning their right It is but usurpation for such to challenge such a condition of being called to be Christs Church as it was in them that said they were Apostles and were not as these in like kinde are Rev. 2. 2. not the Churches of Christ rightly gathered and constituted whatever they pretend to be I suppose it will also appear to the Reader that this Scripture serveth nothing at all to purpose in the matter in hand But J. S. supposing to have made some proofe in the aforesaid matter saith that by vertue of this union they have with their head Christ the body thus joyntly considered hath the power and authority of Christ within themselves to chuse or make use of any one or more of her members as occasioa offers to administer Baptisme upon the whole body and so upon themselves in the first place as a part of the same This is the great conclusion drawn from the former premises but it is onely said for alas that before is no proofe at all of the matter what precept or example is there in the Scripture for the warrant of this certainly none at all for this is unwritten tradition and I dare say as pure popery as any can be for men thus to faine cases and then to give authority in such cases as the holy Scripture is altogether silent in But saith he further if any please to take his word for it such may be as truly said to be sent and authorized by Christ thus as of old by Christ in his humane body even so now in his divine and spirituall body that is this unbaptized company pretending to be a Church Now I marvell whether there be any so simple as to beleeve such doctrine as this that a company of unbaptized persons are Christs divine and spirituall body and that so as what they order persons to doe in the matter of ordinances in particular of Baptisme though it doe not concurre with the Scriptures is as true and reall a mission and as full authority as the holy Apostles had that were sent of Christ himselfe and beside that such high termes of divine and spirituall should be proper to this fained body and onely the term humane should belong to Christs person when he was manifest in the world it is sure very much and at least sheweth plainly how wonderfully hee is conceited of his owne Idea This strange doctrine he will prove by a reason thus Wheresoever a Church doth rise in her true constitution I aske from whence is this rising from the bottomlesse pit I never heard of Hierusalem Revel 19. 2. but comming down from heaven But Babylon and this little Teret of it may rise happily from the earth Againe in her true constitution I say it is likely to be a very true constitution without Baptisme There he saith are her ordinances Yes but in an orderly way they must be acted it is not for Saul to sacrifice But saith he there is power also to administer the same but sure not without right or lawfull instruments God is the God of Order But the 1 Cor. 14. 37. reason that killeth all dead before it and concludeth the matter fully is this That where a thing is wanting there must be of necessity a beginning to reduce the thing again into being this is the conclusion of all And is not J. S. come to a faire Haven after his sore travell and great hazzard Necessity hath no law But where is that due order and orderly way of seeking of God which he before spake of Truly it is a sad case that any by their erroneous judgement and following their own way should bring themselves into such a snare or straight and then plead necessity to doe that which is not lawfull for them and think necessity will beare them out Disobedient Saul by his evill course had brought himselfe into a great straight whereupon he adventured to doe that which did 1 Sam. 13. 12. not appertain to him to doe but for all he pleaded necessity it would not serve his turne for he was told by the Prophet from the Lord That hee had done foolishly and that to obey was better then sacrifice v. 13. Thus saith he I have shewed my judgement that if Baptisme be wanting where it is to be had namely in the holy Scriptures Secondly how from thence to be obtained by Gods calling an unbaptized people into an holy fellowship with Christ from whom though unbaptized they have power to assume as a Church so the Ordinance of Baptisme upon themselves Now courteous Reader this is the sum of the matter consider of it and see if it be not a faire judgement and well grounded and whether thou canst judge this to be any other then Popish divinitie which the Romanist can say in the like kind for their course for cannot they say as much for making Christs reall body in the Eucharist by hoc est corpus meum as these can say for making his divine and spirituall body as they call it for they pretend the Scriptures as these doe they assume to themselves such a state to be Christs Church and to have such power in what they doe even as these doe but truly as theirs is onely pretended and not reall Even so in like is this meerely faigned and not otherwise But he saith he will cleare up this matter Indeed it needs clearing for it is yet
please So as it must be the want of his new Baptisme or nothing and then I leave it to him to judge whether that be not the form of the Church necessarily according to his ground that gives the being thereunto Secondly if by such he meanes those he was an opponent of in the former matter of the Churches continuation and likewise Baptisme under Popish defection I shall adde a little in the way of defence First granting that such hold indeed no Church to wit rightly constituted as a right or lawfull Ministeriall Church without or before the matter of this Church is baptized Secondly denying that in so holding they make Baptisme the form of the Church as he inferreth and so make Baptisme the form there is more goeth to the proof of a matter then so His five Reasons might well have been spared by which he would prove Baptisme not to be the form of the Church till he had made that to appear to be of necessity the right consequence which sure he is never able to do for there was no right Ministeriall Church of old without Circumcision yet Circumcision was not the form of that Church an uncircumcised person was not to be admitted a member much lesse an officer Circumcision was then an externall qualification of the matter as in like manner is Baptisme now In this matter we shall have recourse to the first beginning of the Church of the new Testament and of Baptisme John the Baptist the forerunner of Christ sent of God to prepare the way of his Son according to Commission baptized much people as did also afterward the Disciples of Christ our Lord to him repaired our Lord to be baptized that righteousnesse might be fulfilled It may be observed by the way that this was in the Church of the Jewes Of these thus baptized was the Church of the new Testament begun whether the initiation of it be referred to the time before the passion of our Lord as to himself and the twelve with whom he brake bread or whether it be referred to the time after his resurrection when he gathered the 120. together and blessed them as is most Acts 1. proper let him take his choice and refer to which he will it was begun of the aforesaid baptized matter which is certainly to the life of the matter in hand in discovering that the matter of the Church was fitted by Baptisme before it was laid together As was the Church at the first rise of it so was the proceed those 120. baptized those that joyned with them being not before baptized as it is written they were baptized and added to the Church This first Church scattered by persecution became the instrument of increase and the first matter of many Churches which Churches by their instruments baptized such as received the faith and joyned into the Lord and thus was the Church and Kingdome of Christ spread throughout the World as the holy history doth shew And let J. S. or any of his way shew that there was ever any unbaptized Church or Congregation of the new Testament or that ever any unbaptized person was received into fellowship or that ever any unbaptized person after Baptisme was a foot in the World baptised or was authorized for to do it And lastly let him tell me whether the order of the new Testament as in another case he asked be not as strict in this case of Baptisme as it was in Circumcision of old when no uncircumcised might have part in the Church or fellowship in the Ordinances much lesse act Ordinances Esek 44. in way of dispensing of them to others And let him tell me whether a precept or example be not as necessary in all those cases as in that of baptizing Infants And lastly whether his practice of raising and beginning the Church of unbaptized persons do agree with the primitive practice of our Lord and his Apostles that began the Church of baptized matter as before J. S. propoundeth a second Reason of his opponents thus The Scripture speaketh of no Church before Baptisme To which he answereth as he did to that of the Gates of Hell not prevailing against the Church He must distinguish he saith A meer shift to blind his Reader and avoid the truth there needs no distinction at all in the case He would not take it well if any should distinguish in case of Infants Baptisme But what is his distinction it is betwixt the truth of the doctrine of Baptisme and the administration of it just as he did in the fore-named case as much as if he had said He must distinguish betwixt the Scripture that teacheth Baptisme and Baptisme or washing according to the Scripture In this first sense Baptisme or the doctrine of Baptisme as much as if he had said the holy word of God is before the Church What this is to the purpose is beyond my judgement nor yet that which followeth no Church according to the order of Christs Testament without it or before it No Church without or before the Scripture how this is to the matter in hand and what clearing or rather darkning there is in this distinction I leave the Reader to judge But now for the second part of the distinction Namely the outward administration of Baptisme that ever followeth the Saints joyning in fellowship by mutuall faith and agreement in the Doctrine wherein consists the stating of the Church in her conjoyning in Covenant which ever goes before in the administration of Baptisme and gives power and authority for the same so saith he in the first sense the Church is not before Baptisme but in the last it is Answ The summe and scope of this whole matter amplified and enlarged is utterly false being referred to the purpose for which J. S. doth bring it namely to prove an unbaptized Church or the Scriptures speaking of such Alas this is farre from proving the matter no not in a seeming way In this case it may be truly said from the beginning it was not so The matter of the Church was fitted outwardly by Baptisme as is before declared And the Scriptures give no president of such Church officer or member at any time such a proceed being cleane besides the Scriptures 2. J. S. deceiveth if not himselfe yet others in what he setteth down in referring that to the initiation of a Church which is onely true of the proceed The Church stated and on foot in the world according to God of baptized persons baptizeth others in way of proceed in a orderly way of administration so it was at the beginning and to begin otherwise is not according to the pattern So as not taking notice of the difference between right beginning and orderly proceed he is clean out and beside the truth and his distinction will appeare to be vain and to no purpose unlesse to deceive for as he setteth down that Baptisme ever followeth in regard of the administration of it the Saints joyning in
head and husband that all this time of her backsliding did not renounce her In short she was approved to be but not approved as pure in that her being And surely so is the case of the Church where Antichrist sits as God 2 Thes 2. 4. The matter so considered let J. S. when he awaketh make the most he can of it The second part of the dream is this that this is a part of the same I suppose he meaneth corrupt as the whole is To which I answer though it be corrupt yet it is no part of the corruption there being difference as before betwixt a thing and the corruption that attends it the Israelites were a part of the Schisme of Jeroboam The seven thousand were a part of the ten Tribes which went astray In a diverse 1 King 19. 18. sense persons may be of the Church of God and members for their parts and yet in a way of Idolatry and in that way none 1 Cor. 12. 27. compared with 1 Cor. 5. 1. 1 Cor. 25. 12. of Gods as may be further seen by the case of Manasses as also of the Priest that went astray that went along with the Israelites in their Idolatry sure there is little in this part of the whole But in the third place in his deep charge he saith this is to look for a man in the Moon Answ Just as J. S. did look for the Church and Baptisme in the Scriptures Indeed Eliah thought as his complaint sheweth that he was left alone but God told him otherwise for sure to Rom. 11. 3 4. minde a Church as retaining her being though in a corrupt estate is no looking for a man in a Moon though he for want of other matter and better proofe is pleased out of his sick stomack to say so against the truth and such as stand for it Fourthly saith he It is to suppose a Church to consist in such matter as is destructive to it self Sure J. S. cannot make out this in any rationall way it is but a part of his dream to hold a Church to consist of matter corrupt and degenerate as was the Idolatrous Israelites and as was the lukewarme Laodiceans is not to hold amisse is not to hold the matter destructive to the form or being The faithfull City becomming sometime a harlot Indeed such matter is against Esa 1. 21. the well being of the Church but that is not our question the matter of the Church ought to be holy and pure but it is often otherwise Fifthly he saith to hold a continuednesse of the Churches being though not of her well being his term is here succession of truth but he meaneth sure the Churches being It is against the light of nature Answ A marvellous high ascent and sore charge but it is but rashly spoken as one in a dream that loveth no inferences But however it is well it is not against the light of the holy Scriptures J. S. hath left them and is gone to the light of nature but how doth the light of nature teach that a Church and Ordinances of which is our question cannot continue their being if corrupt or greatly corrupted Truly no more then in the case of Job that he should not or could not be a man because corrupt Job 2. 7. The folly and weaknesse of this fifth part of the dream I suppose any weak judgement will be able to see and I will say no more In the sixth place to bring up the reare he addeth a charge of a foule nature That to hold a continuance of the Church and Ordinances under the apostacy of Antichrist Is a keeping of the Pope upon the throne of Christ whether he will or no But how doth this appear truly as all the rest because he saies so I would ask J. S. or any other if the holding the Israelites of the ten Tribes to be Gods people and their Circumcision to be Gods Ordinances did thus keep up that apostacy and the Calves at Dan and Bethel perforce as in the place of God and his waies Againe doth J. S. and those of his way because they hold the continuation of the same Scriptures and which is more translated by Antichristians in their sense and so successively from Pope Jone doth he or they in thus doing keep the Pope upon the throne of Christ whether he will or no It concerns him to see to it and to renounce and cast away those Antichristian Scriptures as he hath done his Baptisme and so seek new Scriptures too lest not being true to his owne principles hee should become guilty of keeping the Pope upon the Throne of Christ whether he will or no. Experience the School-mistris of fooles hath shewed the contrary of this charge in the Reformed Churches who have almost unthroned the Pope of whom J. S. and those of his way as if they had some compassion have busied themselves in making a little Terret Throne for him to sit upon and inhabit in namely their Babel practise And certainly their erroneous practise and way doth more help to keep the Pope upon the Throne of Christ then any other thing that pretends opposition to it as that course doth of which a little more hereafter and for the present I shall onely here aske J. S. whether he doe think the Pope doth sit upon the Throne of Christ yea or no if he say yea then sure hee sitteth in the Temple of God in the Church for Christs Throne is there He proceedeth after that great charge thus But to lay the chain of succession of truth this way namely through the Popedome of Rome as all such must doe that hold a personall succession of a Church Ordinances to consist in the same from the Apostles untill now What will such doe and where will their succession of truth lye when they come to the woman Pope of whom the Papists themselves are ashamed In answer I retort it thus to lay the chain of succession of truth this way namely through the Popedome as all such must doe that hold the writing or the letter of the Scriptures to have continued from the Apostles untill now in a way of personall succession in that defection what will such doe when they come to the woman Pope of whom the Papists themselves are ashamed truly J. S. hath cause to be ashamed of his foolish reason which if it were true he would finde himselfe to be at as great a fault as his oponent But further I say such as hold the continuation of the Church and Ordinances through Popish defection or under the state of the Popedome will doe well enough with their tenent notwithstanding Pope Jone who could never reach the Churches being to cause it to cease nor yet Baptisme of which in speciall is our question all the coined words of J. S. put upon the matter will not doe it as his chain of succession of truth in stead of continuation of Baptisme again hold
a personall succession again where will their succession of truth lye All these being returned home to J. S. their master he will see or at leastwise any indifferent person will be able to see that Pope Jone will help nothing in the case to hinder the continuance of the Churches being nor yet of the being of Baptisme with which Pope Jone medled not nor was any way concerned this matter at the most is but a relique of the dram before I. S. further tells us that when he speakes of personall succession of truth as in reference to Church and Church Ordinances he looks upon this in the power and authority tbat beares the same Answ Now J. S. seemeth something to awaken out of his dreame and to speak sense what ever sense he have in it his personall succession of truth set aside when he speaketh of the Church and Ordinances their continuance he looketh upon this in the power and authority that beares the same Now surely the power and authority that beares the Church and Church Ordinance up is the power of him that beareth up all things by his mighty power Jesus Christ our Heb. 1. 3. Lord against the gates of hell that preserves his Church as hee did his Arke when Dagon fell in his owne Temple Is it not a wonderfull Matth. 16. thing that he should conceit that Antichrist should by any power of his support Christs Church and the Ordinances thereof that with all his might and force indeavoureth their destruction and ruine but in vaine for Christ is stronger that with his mighty power supports them But J. S. looking awry cannot see any other bearing up the Church and Ordinances then by Antichrist and the Pope that are trampling it down what they can fitting there as God for by no meanes will he be brought to distinguish and put difference betwixt Gods Temple and the Man of sinne sitting in it but like Nicodemus he will say How can it be Joh. 3. For saith he To hold a Church to be true in regard of being you must mind and not of purity and the Ordinances their administred the true Ordinances of God and to leave this and to set up a way of worship apart from it and to deny communion with it is in his darke understanding a meere Schisme and the overthrow of all Order in Religion Answ I am both glad and sorry Glad that J. S. is no Apostle so as we are not bound to beleeve his bare word unlesse we will Sorry I am that he hath so dark a judgement and understanding as in this he doth discover For first I say a Church may be true and the Ordinances true that is Gods and yet both corrupt so as they cannot be partaken with all without sin In such a case there is to be a with-drawing from them in regard of particular communion in as much as we are to keep our selves pure not doing evill for good ends Yea a Church in regard of membership may be left and that without the said Churches consent as plainly appeareth by the example of the Apostles and others that left the Church of Israel of old and that while it was a Church And God himselfe calleth his people out of Babylon Rev. 18. 4. though the Church and Ordinances have a being there in as much as there can be no remaining there but there will be a partaking in sinne So as leaving particular communion and personall relation of membership I conceive is very necessary and according to God after the manner of all the Reformed Churches that have come out of Babylon renounced communion with her in the things of God because of the evills attending of them lest they should be defiled As on the other side they have drawn nigh to God in the purity of his wayes and worship as those did that left Israel in the time of their Apostacie and came to the Lord and his pure worship in Judah But thus to doe namely to leave a Church and Ordinances greatly polluted and defiled and to worship God together purely apart from that corrupted estate with-holding fellowship is in his dark judgement a meer Schisme alas poor dark judgement such a Schisme as he hath oft made and those of his way are full of in their own sense The holy Apostles and beleeving Jewes were Schismaticks in his account and all the Reformed Churches and Christians that have forsaken Babylon and are come out of her are all Schismaticks in his dark judgement But no marvell he so accounteth of these latter seeing by his reckoning they are not baptized Christians Truly he and those of his way by light and cleare judgements will be discerned to be even such themselves for doing as they doe Now to that latter part of this charge That it is the overthrow of all order in Religion I aske him which way it appeareth so to be sure he cannot tell for if it be well minded it will be found to be a speciall meanes of the preserving of religion decayed and a repayring of it and of reducing it to the first purity and an utter putting away all rust and defilement and therefore the Apostle giveth in charge having forewarned of the great defection of Antichrist not to begin a new but to keep the old Ordinances according Thes 2. 15. to the purity they were delivered to us J. S. his course I suppose is guilty of the overthrow of all order in Religion not onely what is of God remaining and afoot in the world but even of that also which is held forth in the Word in erecting a new Church and dispensing new Ordinances without a new Commission which never any did before After this he tells us of his learning Christ which sure is very little in regard of order as his way and course doth shew So far faith he as I have learned Christ men are to stand in their places and use all means to reclaim and reform corrupt Churches he meaneth by the word of truth Very good But what if they will not reform and all means which we can use availeth not This being done saith he so as of necessity I must leave off communion with them So as it seemeth communion may be left with a Church that is Gods because of evill and obstinacie in the same Then in such a case he thinketh for he onely giveth us his thoughts without Scripture he must disclaim them and separate from them To which I say it is but upon the condition of their non-repentance which challengeth sometime of waiting but that such a Church he ought to disclaim and separate from he holdeth First I would know whether he may do this while it remaineth a Church of Christ If he say yea then I ask him What is become of that which in his dark judgement was a meer Schisme But if he say nay not till the Church ceases to be Truly that will be a very hard matter for him to
immediatly from God that sent him to prepare the way of his Son Secondly concerning Iohn the Scripture testifieth That he was a Prophet and more then a Prophet But how or what or whether or Matth. 11. 9. no concerning his particular Baptisme it is altogether silent It is not for men to be over wise or meddle above what is written but let the body of Moses alone Last of all I will put it upon this Issue In the judgement of indifferent men whether they think it will follow that because Abraham and Iohn Baptist were the first beginners and actors in Circumcision and Baptisme by vertue of speciall Commission to them personally that therefore it was lawfull of old in case of Circumcision for any of the heathen to have also circumcised themselves and families or in the case of Baptisme for others at that time by vertue of his example to have baptized also as he did without any Commission at all for if in those times it was not lawfull for them so to do but of necessity they must go as our Lord did to the Baptist then in as much as length of time can give no warrant to a thing not warrantable at the first I conceive it will be given and concluded that Instance is invalide and of no force to warrant a person to baptize himself or others being himself unbaptized Which he in the case of Baptisme saith was written for our learning and teacheth us what to do upon the like occasion To which I say supposing the occasion he here speaketh of is not that of necessitie that hath no law but leaveth men at liberty to do the best they can which is the last refuge of I. S. and those of his way There is I say no such occasion as in the case of Iohn there being no Scripture to be fulfilled by sending a messenger before to prepare Christs Matth. 3. 3. way There is no such occasion for that there is no new Commission nor any new Ordinances to be set on foot Again there is no such occasion for that there is baptized persons in the world to repair unto that as Christ our Lord went to Iohn so we might go to them Besides what is not written cannot be for our learning Now it is not written when or where or by whom or whether at all Iohn was baptized so as none of any such things can be for our learning unlesse we will go beyond our Lesson But this is written that he was sent of God and had speciall Commission to do what he did that we might learn not to run before we be sent but to be obedient in going when we are bidden and doing as we are commanded as he did Further I. S. saith for the continuance of the Church from Christs words The gates of hell shall not prevail against it Here by the way I take notice that he hath laid aside his succession and personall succession and speaks now plain English namely the continuation of the Church Matth. 16. 18. Now what saith he to this He confesseth the same But in so doing he overthroweth his new way and course for if the Church continue and hath continued what need is there of new beginning and baptizing by persons unbaptized surely none at all And therefore he maketh his acknowledgement with a proviso that is by a distinction that indeed is either a non-sense or else a flat deniall The distinction is thus That this Church is to be considered in her instituted State as it lieth in the Scriptures in the rules of the foundation See what expressions are here Instituted State Rules of foundation Lying in the Scripture as much and no more then this according to the pattern set forth in the Word Or otherwise in the second place in her Constitation or constituted form in her visible Order As much as if he had said in her outward being Now of the pattern is not our question for as the pattern of the Temple was one thing and the Temple built or to be built was another thing so it is here But see what J. S. saith having made such a distinction as before to darken the truth Thus he saith Against the first hell gates never prevailed This pattern standing sure in the Scriptures as of old the pattern of the Temple might remaine when the Temple was destroyed But against the Church it self which is the second part of his distinction it hath prevailed So the summe is as much as if he had said hell gates never prevailed against the Scriptures but against the Church built according to the Scriptures it hath Now let any man excuse the irrationalnesse of I. S. if he can thus to grant in shew and deny in substance and truth with one breath the continuation of the Church according to the Word and ptomise of Christ made to the Church and not to the Scriptures And I say unto thee thou art Peter and upon this rocke Mat. 16. 18. to wit himseif I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevaile against it to destroy it For why it was built on a sure foundation not to be moved for ever Now this Church the continuation whereof he granted before having deceived himself and his Reader by a groundlesse distinction he denieth the continuation now and saith Hell gates hath prevailed often against it But whence is it that he is thus contrary and I and no Saith he For the Church hath been often in her outward order scattered through persecution and the like Sure this is a very weighty reason thus to over power a man what if the Church hath bin scattered through persecution must it then follow a destroying by hell gates though the Church hath been greatly scattered through persecution yet she continued her being and was so far from being by hell gates prevailed against as that they overcame by suffering Rom. 8. the gates of hell and were more then conquerers The blood of the Martyrs being the seed of the Church and the Church the more oppressed the more growing and increasing J. S. saith in this sense of being scattered she is said to be overcome To which I say that this is not the sense of Mat. 16. 18. nay it is against the sense of the Scripture that by afflictions the Church should be overcome when as in all afflictions the Church hath been more then conquerers through Christ that loved her I. S. citeth two or three places Dan. 7. Rev. 12. Act. 8. 1. For that in Daniel it is utterly against his sense for speaing of the Kingdome of Christ his Church it saith it shall not be destroyed vers 14. 27. As for that Rev. 12. it plainly declareth the prevailing of the Church and not her being overcome or destroyed and that they overcame by the blood of the Lambe and that the Dragon was cast out It indeed speaketh of the womans fleeing into the Rev. 12. wildernesse but there she
rise againe Nay doth not this prove plainly that death had dominion over them and that they were thereby destroyed for otherwise how should there be place for their rising again And indeed the restoring of the Church to her being doth necessarily imply the losse of her being otherwise there would be no place for restoring If all men had been destroyed at the deluge of Noah a new creation had been necessary Happily he may think their is something in that that God is not the God of the dead but of the living in as much as all live to him Indeed this may prove the soules immortality and living with God But what sense it hath in regard of the Church is beyond my thoughts for certainly if it hath reference to the Church it will enforce the being and continuace of the Church of the Jewes and the Patriarchall Churches which ceased long agoe To imagine their continuance what can be more vaine But further if because all live to God therefore the Church alwayes hath a being where is place left for her death and cessation Truly this is a matter too far fetcht to prove any thing in this matter that may stand him in any stead for if any thing be gathered from it it must be that as Abraham and so other Prophets dyed and left the world so the Church of Christ dyed also and was destroyed out of the world But if he shall say Abraham and the rest lived notwithstanding The answer is they lived indeed another way not in regard of their mortall bodies but in regard of their immortall soules Their outward visible bodies were destroyed and in the dust so the outward visible Church is destroyed and ceases to be but the inwardnesse of it the life and soule to wit Jesus Christ is in heaven with God what this maketh to the matter in hand I leave the Reader to judge And this way saith J. S. I suppose Christ may have and enjoy as good a wife ever as any can be preserved for him under the defection of Antichrist Answ This way is a meere supposition without reason and against sense That Christ should have sometime a wife and sometime none and then one againe and yet he should have ever one preserved It were good to lay aside such senselesse suppositions and to beleeve the Scriptures that tell us that the man of sinne sometime sitteth in the Temple of God and that Gods Temple 2 Thes 2. 4. remaineth and hell gates shall not prevaile against it Though the Church Christs wife may goe astray and be corrupted yet he Matth. 16. 18 that is her husband will not forsake but will reform her and refine her and put new garments on her sure he hath read what God said of old to his Spouse Thou hast played the harlot with many Jer. 3. 10. 22. lovers yet return to me saith the Lord I am thy husband and thy maker But happily if he had then lived hee would have supposed Esa 54 5. that Christ might have had or have made to himselfe a new as he in this case endeavoureth to doe for him as good a wife as that that was so corrupt and defiled The truth is there is more rich grace and free mercy in Jesus Christ then to take advantage and to refuse and put away for he is the Lord that changeth not and therfore his Church is not destroyed no notwithstanding the evils she Mal. 3. 6. falleth into for he hateth putting away It were more sutable for J. S. and those of his way to professe Mal. 2. 16. the doctrine of workes which is sutable to their other opinions then the doctrine of free grace unlesse they would be more true to their principles as in this particular more especially wherein they hold corruption dissolveth the marriage bond and maketh the relation to cease and causeth the everlasting Lord to change and his Covenant to faile for evermore Psal 77. 8. The following complaint and story by which it is illustrated I have spoken unto it before in which matter of guilt if hee and those of his way should take water and wash their hands they would notwithstanding be no lesse guilty then Pilate was of Jesus blood But after this he telleth of his feares and that is that men put more in Baptisme then doth of right belong to it that doe preferre it before the Church and all other Ordinances besides Answ Is not J. S. and those of his way sick of this disease and that as dangerously as those he is in such feare of how otherwise should it be that they should be so often baptized over and over and over againe and make a Church that they may make Baptisme I leave the Reader to judge 2. How doth this appeare which he so feareth in others that they preferre it before the Cburch and all Ordinances beside Answ It is onely to the qualification of the matter externally that it might be sutable to the rest of the building Ephes 5. 26. But yet this charge is not altogether true for they doe not preferre Baptisme before the Word and the publishing of it by which faith comes Nay they doe not preferre it above or before the Church the Church being the pillar and ground of truth that is of the truth 1 Tim. 3. 15. of Ordinances and divine worship and so of Baptisme in the proceed of it in a right way which Church the matter of it at the preparing of it by John was first baptized and after laid together in the building So of this matter thus by Johns preaching prepared and by his washing in the second place fitted was in after time gathered and laid into a holy building to the Lord which Church way begun and setled in the world augmented and encreased those washed washing others according to Christs appointment never any unwashed person being added or laid into the building since the Church begun it being necessary that the matter of the Temple be outwardly fitted that it may sute with the rest of the building being laid thereon So as J. S. may be satisfied that his feares in the first place are causelesse the Church being on foot according to God Baptisme in administration followeth But in further declaring the reason of his feares he saith For they can erect a Church take in and cast out members elect and ordaine officers administer the Supper and all anew without looking after succession any further then the Scriptures But as for Baptisme they must have that successively from the Apostles though it come through the hands of Pope Jone what the reason of this is that men can doe all from the Word but onely Baptisme and that must come by man even by the man of sinne Answ To balance the thoughts of J. S. I will present a case to his consideration supposing he had lived in the Apostacie of the ten Tribes yea of Judahs Apostacie and returning to the Lord
and his pure service as those of the ten Tribes that went from Israel to Judah had other Priests and Ministers of the Law and service of God and a pure way of serving of God onely that of circumcision they would continue that though according to his conceit in the case of Baptisme it came from the two Calves What would he have said or thought of it in this case I would faine know If they did well it is good for us to imitate them in a like case 2. I say as before more fully I have shewed that this Church and Ordinances are but new in regard of purity the other being corrupt so all this he calleth new is not like their new raising of the Church and Ordinances as if those before had lost their being and were not at all In this their case which he so excepteth against there is expresse warrant 2 Thes 2. 15. keep the Ordinances as they were delivered unto you that is purely 3. Baptized persons in the case of their returne from idollwayes and Apostacie to the pure service of God are to look after Baptisme no otherwise then circumcised Jewes did in the like case when they returned unto the Lord Ezek. 44. 9. They were not to circumcise themselves or be circumcised again yet the Heather comming along with them they must be circumcised In like manner Gods people comming out of Babylon according to the call of God Rev. 18. 4. are not required to be again baptized though the Jewes and other Heathen that imbrace the faith of Christ are required to doe it which I would wish I. S. and those of his way to consider of 4. For the continuation of the Church and Baptisme the outward qualification of the matter the Scriptures fully give witnesse unto as before is shewed so as is no need of beginning them a new in any sense unlesse of purity but other Ordinances are by negligence laid by and out of use something in the room of them and so are by the Church to be restored to their places when the Church is purged and made pure Lastly for this of Baptisme comming through the hands of Pope Jone and from the man of sin It is a false and scandalous reproach it cometh no more through the hands of Pope Jone and the man of sin then the holy Scriptures did or then Circumcision did through the hands of the two Galves of old J. S. may be ashamed so to reproch Gods holy Ordinance by his good pleasure preserved to this day I would wish him to call to mind his complaint story before And now in regard he is up with Pope Ione again to disgrace the truth and those that stand for it whereby to make persons afraid and do they know not what which after they undo again and so Gal. 2. 18. make themselves every way trespassers by destroying what they before built I will note some particulars wherein those of his way shake hands with Pope Ioane and the man of sin and leave the Reader to judge who may be most justly taxed for affinity with Pope Jone the reformed or separated Churches or those of the new way of Baptisme First those of that way of Baptisme hold generall or universall redemption with the man of sin and Pope Jone 2. Free-will 3. Falling from grace 4. Conditionall Election that men may be saved if they will themselves 5. They hold an universall Church and generall ministery with power universall 6. That Antichrist is not yet come and shall be a particular man and shall continue but three years c. 7. They hold with Pope Jone and accordingly censure all the reformed and separated Churches for meer Schismaticks 8. They hold with Pope Jone dipping in Baptisme I do not say that J. S. or all of that way hold all these particulars but this I am sure that all these are held by persons in that way in practice they also shake hands for as the man of sin hath made a Church so they also have made a Church onely the man of sin and Pope Jone have succeeded better in their work for they have made a Church of a large structure whereas theirs is yet but a little Terret of the like nature 2. As Pope Joane hath sent out her messengers to preach and baptize namely the Friers and others the Moors and Indians so in like manner these send out their messengers to preach and baptize also 3. As Pope Jone and the man of sin give authority to their instruments and ministers to act things without the cognizance of the Scriptures so in like kinde do they namely authorizing an unbaptized person to baptize others In this and one thing more they exceed in irrationalnesse Pope Ione to wit of giving mission to unbaptized persons to baptize 2. In Baptizing them that were before baptized I will forbear to adde other particulars Now let them shew if they can any such doctrines held or courses taken by the separated or rightly reformed Churches in way of affinity with Pope Jone and the man of sin I say no more but leave the Reader to judge In the end of this Sexion he uttereth divers high Notions so undigested unsound and contradictorie as a man that should weigh them could not but wonder First he saith that we are to know that the truth depends not upon Churches nor any mortall creature but onely upon the immortall God who by his Word and Spirit reveals the same when and to whom he pleases This is the first of his wonderfull Notions which we are to know that the truth of Ordinances and right serving God of which is our question depends not upon Churches Where then is J. S. his orderly way he proposed according to God by the Church and her assignement of one or two of her members to begin Baptisme being lost c. Secondly This that he would have us to know is directly contrary to that which God teacheth us to know in his Word 1 Tim. 3. 15. The Church of the living God God himself saith is the pillar and ground of truth that is of Religion and divine Ordinances as we said before Thirdly If I. S. say he do not mean truth of Ordinances truly he is then beside the matter in hand deceiving and being deceived Fourthly If he mean as in the former is specied with whom then doth he contend Do not all confesse the truth as Doctrinall to have God for the Authour of it and to depend on him What high words doth he here use to amaze the Reader as The truth depends not upon any mortall man Who ever held so But upon the Immortall God Who ever held otherwise But this immortall God reveales the same by his Word and Spirit What doth God reveal new Ordinances of Religion by his Word and Spirit Sure this is some dark non-sense He questionlesse meaneth some other thing What Revelation he herein intendeth is not hard to guesse however he is beside the