setting down things more obscurely There is no particular point of Doctrine in the holy Scripture so manifestly set down as that concerning the Church and the Markes thereof nothing set down more copious and perspicuous then the visibility perpetuitie and amplitude of the Church So that Saint Augustin did not stick to say that the Scriptures were more clear about the Church then they were about Christ. Let him answer for it He said so in his book de unitate Ecclesiae and this he said was the reason because God in his wisedome would have the Church to be described without any ambiguity that all Controversies about the Church may be clearly decided wherehy questions about particular Doctrines may find determinations in her judgement and that Visibility might shew the way unto the most rude and ignorant and I know not any Church to whom it may more justly be attributed then to the Church of Rome whose Faith as in the beginning was spread through the whole world so all along and at this day it is generally known among all nations Next to this I prove the Catholick Church to be the Romane because a lawfull succession of Pastors is required in every true Church according to the Prophet Esay his Prophecie concerning her viz. My Spirit which is upon thee and the words which I have put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seed nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed from henceforth for ever This succession I can find onely in the Church of Rome This Succession they onely can prove none else offering to go about it This Succession Saint Augustin sayes kept him in that Church viz. a Succession of Priests from the very seat of Peter the Apostle to the present Bishop of his time And Optatus Milevitanus recons all the Romane Bishops from Saint Peter to Syricius who then was Pope and by this he shewed and made it his Argument that the true Church was not with the Donatists bidding them to shew the Originall of their Chayre this no Protestant did or ever can do The Romane Church gave the English Bishops Commission to preach the Doctrine of Christ as they have delivered it unto them but they never gave them any Commission to preach against her Religion which Bishops being turned out for observing the depositum wherewith they were instructed and new Bishops chosen in their room by her who not contenting her self with being a nursing mother thereof must needs be head of the child and moderatrix in the same Church wherein by the Apostles precept she is forbidden to speak the Succession was broke off the branch cut off from the body becoming no part of the tree sit for nothing but to be chopt into smaller pieces and so fitted for the fire this proofe of Succession the Bishops of England thought so necessary for proving their Church to be the true Church that they affirmed themselves to be consecrated by Catholick Bishops their Predecessors wbich never proved argues the interruption and affirming it shewes how that in their own opinion the Succession could not hold in the inferiour Ministers as indeed it cannot for as there is a continued supply of Embassadours in all places yet the Succession is in the royall race so though all vacancies are replenished by Ministers of the Gospel yet the Succession of the Authority was in the Bishops as descended to them from the Apostles according to our Saviours rule I will be with you alwayes unto the end of the world Which Affirmation of theirs argues that their calling is insufficient without it and in that they would faine derive it from the Church of Rome it argues that that is the true Church and yet they would forsake her supposing her to have errors when that Reformation it self was but a Supposition for seeing they hold that their Church may erre they can be certain of nothing and whilst for errors sake they forsake the Church of Rome the Church of England in forsaking her may be in the greatest error of all where there is neither Succession nor assurance I must leave her to her self and Your Majestie to judge Next I prove the Romane Church to be the true Church by her unity in Doctrine for so the Apostle Paul requires all the Churches children to be of one mind viz. I beseech you that all speak one thing Be ye knit together in one mind and one Judgement 1. Cor. 1. Endeavouring to keep the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace Ephes 4. 3. The multitude of them that believed were of one heart of one soul Act. 4. 32. Continue in one spirit and one mind of one accord and one judgement Phil. 1. 27. Phil. 2. 2. So our Saviour prayeth that they may be one So Joseph forewarned his brethren that they should not fall out by the way knowing that whilst they were with him he could order them when they came to their father he could order them but having no head they should be apt to dissentious This Vnity I find no where but in the Church of Rome agreeing in all things which the Church of Rome hath determined for Doctrine whereas the Protestant Doctrine like the heresie of Simon Magus divided it self into severall Sects and to that of the Donatists which were cut into small threds in so much that among the many Religions which are lately sprung up and the sub sub subdivisions under them each one pretending to be the true Protestant excluding the other and all of them together no more likely to be bound up in the bond of peace then a bundle of thornes can expect binding with a rope of sand In vaine is their excuse if non-disagreement in fundamentalls for they dis-agree amongst themselves about the Sacrament for the Lutherans hold Consubstantiation but the Church of England no such matter Some that Christ descended into hell others not The Church of England maintaine their King to be the head of the Church The Helvetians will acknowledge no such matter the Presbyterians will acknowledge no such matter the Independent will acknowledge no such matter Concerning the Government of the Church by Bishops some Protestants maintaine it to be Jure Divino others to be Jure Ecclesiastico others no such matter Some thinks that the English translations of the Bible in some places takes away in other places addes and other-some places changes the meaning of the holy Ghost and some think it no such matter or else the Bishops would not have recommended Lincol. min. to K. James pag. 11. 13. it unto the people Lastly they are so far from agreeing about the true meaning of the word of God that they cannot agree upon what is the word of God For Lutherans deny the second Epistle of Saint Peter the second and third Chem. Ex. Contr. Trid. part 1. pag. 55 Also Eucher p. 63. Epistle of Saint John the Epistle to the Hebr.
penknife of Apoccrypha Ruffinus challengeth him for so doing and tells him of the gap that he hath opened for wild beasts to enter into this field of the Church and tread down all ill corn Jerom gives his reasons because they were not found in the Originall Copie as if the same spirit which gave to those whom it did inspire the diversities of tongues should it self be tied to one language but withall he acknowledgeth this much of those books which he had thus markt in the forehead Canonici sunt ad informandos mores sed non ad confirmandam fidem how poor a Distinction this is and how pernitious a president this was I leave it to Your Majestie to judge for after him Luther takes the like boldness and at once takes away the three Gospels of Mark Luke and John Others take away the epistle to the Hebrews others the epistle of Saint Jude others the second and third epistles of Saint Peter others the epistle of Saint James others the whole book of the Revelation Wherefore to permit what the Church proposes to be questionable by particular men is to bring down the Church the Scriptures and the Heavens upon our heads there was a Church before there was a Scripture which Scripture as to us had not been the Word of God if the Church had not made it so by teaching us to believe it The preaching of the Gospel was before the writing of the Gospell the Divine Truth that dispersed it self over the face of the whole earth before i'ts Divinitie was comprised within the Cannon of the Scripture was like that Primeva Lux which the world received before the light was gathered into the body of the Sun this body so glorious and comfortable is but the same light which was before we cannot make it an other though it be otherwise and therefore though the Church and the Scripture like the light that is concomitant and precedent to the Sun be distinct in tearms yet they are but one the same no man can see the Sun but by it's own light shut your eyes from this light and you cannot behold the body of the Sun Shut your eyes against one and you are blind in both he never had God to be his Father who had not the Church to be his Mother if you admit Sillogismes a priori you will meet with many paralogismes a posteriori cry down the Churches Authoritie pull out the Scriptures efficacie give but the Church the lie now and then and you shall have enough will tell you the Scripture is false here and there they who have set so little by the tradition of the Church have set by halfe the Scriptures and will at last throw all away wherefore in a word as to denie any part of the Scripture were to open a vain so to question any thing which the Church proposes is to teare the seamlesse Coat of Christ and to pierce his body King My Lord I see you are better provided with Arguments then I am with memorie to run through the series of your Discourse satisfie me but in one thing and I shall soone yield to all that you have said and that is concerning this Catholick Church you talke of I know the creed tels us that we must believe it and Christ tells us that we must hear it but neither tell us that that is the Church of Rome Marq. Gratious Sir the creed tells us that it is the Catholick Church and Saint Paul tells us in his epistle to the Romans that their faith was spread abroad through the whole world King That was the Faith which the Romanes then believed which is nothing to the Roman Faith which is now believed Marq. The Romane Faith then and now are the same King I denie that my Lord. Marq. When did they alter their Faith King That requires a librarie neither is it requisite that I tell you the time when if the envious man sowes his tares whilst the husband-man was asleep and afterwards he awakes and sees the tares are they not tares because the hushand-man knowes not when they were sown Marq. And if it please Your Majestie in a thing that is so apparent your similitude holds good but in the differences between us and the protestants are not so without dispute as that it is yet granted by the major part of Christians that they are errours which we believe contrary to Your Tenents and therefore the similitude holds not but I shall humbly intreat Your Majestie to consider the proofes which the learned Cardinal Peroone hath made concerning this particular in his answer to Your Royall Father his Apologie to all Christian Princes where he proves how that all the Tenents which are in controversie now between you and us were practised in the Church of Christ within the first three hundred years wherefore I think it would be no injury to reason to require belief that that which hath been so long continued in the Church and so universaly received and no time can be set down when those Tenents or Ceremonies did arise must needs be Catholick for time and place and Apostolical for institution though we have no warrant from the Scriptures to believe them to be such For the Apostle Saint Paul commanded Timothy to keep fast the things which he had delivered unto him as well by word as by writ Wherefore if we will believe no tradition we may come at last to believe no writings King That was your own fault wherefore I blame your Church for the way to make the Scriptures not believed were to adde unto them new inventions and say they were Scriptures Marq. If the Church of Christ had so mean esteeme then as amongst some she hath now certainly the former books received into her Cannon would have been much prejudiced by the admittance of the latter wherefore if the Church be questionable then all is brought in question King My Lord you have not satisfied me where this Church is and as concerning the Cardinals book I have seen it and have read a part of it but do not remember neither do I believe that he hath prov'd that which you say Marq. It may be the proofes were in that part of the book which Your Majestie did not read and as for my proving the Romane Church to be this Church by which we should be all guided I thus shall do my endeavour That Church whose Doctrine is most Catholick and universall must be the Catholick Church but the Romane Church is such Ergo. King My Lord I denie your Minor the Romane Church is not more universall the Grecian Church is far more spreading and if it were not it were no Argument for the Church of the Mahumetanes is larger then both Marq. First This is no Argument either for an English Man or a Protestant but for a Grecian or Mahumetane not for an English Man because he received his Conversion from Rome and therefore he in Reason should not
in Jul. orat 2. wax tapers in sign of joy for the certainty of their future resurrection The Church then had the picture of Christ and of his Saints both x Euseb de Vita Const out of Churches y Paulin Epist 12. Basil in Martyr Bar and in them and upon the very z Prudent in S. Cassian Altars not to adore them with God like worship but by them to reverence the Souldiers and Champions of Christ The faithfull then used the a Tert de coron milit sign of the cross in all their Conversations b Cyril Cont. Jâ—l l 6. painted it on the portal of all the houses of the faithfull c Hier in Vit. Hil. gave their blessing to the people with their hand by the sign of the cross d Athan cont Idol imployed it to drive away evil spirits e Paul Ep 11. proposed in Jerusalem the very cross to be adored on good fryday Finally the Church held then f Tert de praescrip Iren. l. 3. c. 3. l. 4. c. 32. that to the Catholick Church onely belongs the keeping of the Apostolicall tradition the Authority of interpretation of Scripture and the decision of Controversies of faith and that out of the succession g Cypr de unit Eceles Conc Car 4. c. 1. of her communion of h Hier Cont Lucif Aug de util cred c. 8. her Doctrine i Cypr ad pub Ep 63. ad mag Ep 67. Hier. ad Tit c. 3. and her ministery there was neither Church nor Salvation Neither will I insist with you only upon the word then but before and before and before that even to the first age of all will I shew you our doctrine of the reall presence and holy Sacrifice of the Masse Invocation of Saints Veneration of Reliques and Images Confession and Priestly absolution Purgatory and prayer for the dead Traditions c. In the fift Age or hundred of years Saint Augustine was for the reall and corporall presence a Aug Conc 1. in Psall 33. In the fourth Age Saint Ambrose b Lib 4. de Sacra In the third Age S. Cyprian c 5. and l. de iis qui misteriis initiantur c. 9. c Serm de Coena Dom. prope init In the second Age or hundred of years S. Irenaeus d l. 4. c. 32. infin And in the first Age e Ep ad smirnum uâ— cit a Theod Dial 3. S. Ignatius Martyr and disciple of St. John the Evangilist Concerning the honour and invocation of Saints In the fifth age we find S. Augustine f Serm. de Verb Apost prope init medit c. 40. li. de loquutionibus in gen prope finem praying to the Virgin Mary and other Saints In the fourth age we find Greg. Naz. praying to S. Basil the great g In Orat 20. quae est in laudem Basil mag And St. Hier Cont Vigil 13. initio In the third age we find S. Origin praying to Father Abraham h Initio sui lamenti In the second age Justin Martyr i Apol 2. ad Anton pium Imper non longe ab initio And in the first age in the Liturgy of S. James the lesse k Ange Med. For the use and veneration of holy Reliques and Images and chiefly of the Holy Cross In the fifth age Saint Augustine l Tract 118. in Joan fine In the fourth age Athanasius m Ad Antiochum principem In the third age Brigin n Hom 8. in diversos Evangelij locos In the second age S. Justin Martyr o Ad quaest 28. Gentilium And in the first age St. Ignatius p Epist ad Phil ante Med. Concerning Confession and Absolutions In the fifth age St. August q Hom 49. ante Med. In the fourth age S. Basil the great r Sui regulis brevior interr 288. In the third age St. Cypr. Å¿ Serm de lapsis In the second age Tertull. t l. de poenit c. 10. And in the first age St. Clement u Clement Ro Epist 1. Now concerning Purgatory and Prayer for the dead in the fifth age St. Augustin a De Civit. Dei li 26. c. 24. and also Ser. 41. de sanct prope init also Serm. 22. de Verb Apost In the foutrh age St. Ambrose b Ambr. in 1. Cor 3. S. Hier. in Com. in cap. 11. proverb In the third age St. Cypr. c Epist 5. ad Anton post med In the second age Tertull. d li de animae c. 58. de Corona milit c. 3. 4. And in the first age St. Clement l Clem Ro Ep 1. de S Petr prope fin Concerning Traditions in the fifth age St. Augustin f l. 4. de bapt Con. Donaâ—… c. 24. In the fourth age St. Basil g li de Sp Sancto c. 27. In the third age St. Epiphanius h Heref 61. In the second age St. Irenaeus i li 3. c. 4. And in the first age St. Dennis k Areopag c. 1. Eccles Hierar Now suppose that all these quotations be right The saving of a soul of your own soul of the soul of a King of the souls of so many Kingdomes and the gaining of that Kingdom for a reward which in Comparison of these earthly ones for which you so often fight somuch strive and labour so much for to obtaine your tetrarchate would be a gain for you to lose it so that you might but obtain that would be worth the search and when you have found them to be truly cited I dare trust your judgement that it will tell you that we have not changed our Countenance nor fled our Colours nor fallen away nor altered our Religion nor forsaken our first love nor denied our principles nor brought novelties into the Church but that we do antiquum obtinere whereby we should be forsaken of you for forsaking our selves but rather that we should winne you unto us by being still the same we were when we wonne you first unto us and were at the beginning And is it for the honour of the English Nation famous for the first Christian King and the first Christian Emperour to forsake her mother Church so renowned for antiquitie and to annex their Religion as a codicell to an appeale of a company of Protesters against a decree at Spira and to forsake so glorious a name as Catholick and to take a name upon them wherein they had neither right nor interest and then to take measure of the Scotish Discipline for the new fashion of their souls and to make to themselves posies of the weedings of that Garden into which Christ himself came down a Cant. 6. 1. upon which both the north and south-winds do blow b Cant. 4. 16. in which is a well of living waters and streams from Lebanon c Cant. 4 15. about which is an
look beyond Rome or the Doctrine that Rome practised then when they converted England nor for a Protestant because he is as far distant from the Grecian Church in matter of opinion as from the Romane and therefore he need not look for that which he hath no desire to find besides the Greek Church hath long ago submitted to the Church of Rome and there is no reason that others should make Arguments for her who are not of her when she stands in no competition her self besides there is not in any place where ever the Greek Church is or hath been planted where there are not Romane Catholicks but there are divers Countreys in Christendome where there is not one Professour of the Greek Church neither is there a place in all the Turks Dominions where there are not Romane Catholickes nor in any part of the world where there are not multitude of Romanes neither is there a Protestant Countrey in Christendome where there are not Roman Catholicks numberlesse but not a Protestant amongst the Natives neither of Spanie or Italy Shew me but one Protestant Countrey in the world who ever deserted the Romane Faith but they did it by Rebellion except England and there the King and the Bishops were the principall reformers I pray God they do not both suffer for it Shew me but one reformed Church that is of the opinion of an other ask an English Protestant where was your Religion before Luther and he will tell you of Hus and Jerom of Prag search for their Tenents and you shall find them as far different from the English Protestant as they are from one another run to the Waldensis for your Religions antiquity and you shall find as much difference in their Articles and ours as can be between Churches that are most opposite Come home to your own Countrey and derive your descent from Wickliffe and search for his Tenents in the book of Martyrs and you shall find them quite contrary to ours neither amongst any of your moderne Protestant shall you find any other agreement but in this one thing that they all protest against the Pope Shew me but any Protestant Countrey in the world where Reformation as you call it ever set her foot where she was not as well attended with sacriledge as usher'd by Rebellion and I shall lay my hand upon my mouth for ever King My Lord my Lord you are gone beyond the scope of your Argument which required you to prove the Romane Church more Catholick then the Greek which you have not done you put me off with my being English and not a Grecian whereas when we speak of the universality of a Church I think that any man who is belonging to the universe is objectum rationis And if that be the manner of your Election then I am sure most voices must carry it for your alleaged submission of the Greek Church unto the Roman I believe it cannot be prov'd but it may be the Patriarch of Constantinople may submit unto the Pope of Rome and yet the Greek Church may not submit unto the Romane Marq. Sir it is no dishonour for the Sun to make its progress from East to West it is still the same Sun and the difference is onely in the shadowes which are made to differ according to the varieties of shapes that the severall substances are of East and West are two divisions but the same day neither can they be said or imagined to be greater or more extending one or other and the one may have the benefit of the Suns light though the other may have its glory and I believe no man of sober judgement can say that any Church in the world is more generally spread over the face of the whole world or that her glory shines in any place more conspicuously then at this day in Rome King My Lord If externall glory be the Sun-shine of the Gospel then the Church is there indeed but if internall sanctity inward holyness be the Essences of a Church then we may be as much to seek for such a Church within the Wals of Rome as any where else Marq. Who shall be Judge of that I pray observe the Injustice and Errours that will arise if every man may be admitted to be his own judge you of the Church of England left your Mother the Church of Rome and Mother to all the Churches round about You forsook her and set up a new Church of your own Independent to her there comes a new generation and doth the like to you and a third generation that is likely to do the like to that and the Church falls and falls untill it falls to all the pieces of Independencie It is a hard case for a part to fall away from the whole and to be their own judges Why should not Kent fall away from England and be their own judges as well as England fall away from Christendome and be their own judges why should not a Parish in Kent fall away from the whole County and be their own judges why should not one Family fall away from the whole Parish and be their own judges why should not one man fall away in his opinion from that Family and be his own judge If you grant one you must grant all and I fear me in doing one you have done all So that every man dispiseth the Church whilst he is a Church to himself rayles against Popery and is the greatest Pope himself dispiseth the Fathers and will enthrone his own judgement above the wisdome of the ancient refuseth Expositours that he may have bis own sence and if he can start up but some new opinions he thinks himself as worthy a member of Christianity as if he were an Apostle to some new found land Now Sir though some do take the Church to be the Scriptures yet the Scriptures cannot be the Church because the Scriptures send us to the Church audi Ecclesiam dic Ecclesiae others take the Elect to be the Church yet this cannot be for we know not who are elect and who not that which must be the Church must be a visible an eminent societie of men to whose Authoritie in cases of appeale and matter of judgement we are to acquiesse and subscribe And I appeale to Your Royall heart whether there be a Church in the world to whom in these respects we ought to reverence and esteeme more then the Church of Rome and that the Church of Rome is externally glorious it doth not follow that therefore she is not internall holy for the Kings daughters clothing was of wrought gold as well as she was all glorious within and though she had never so many Divine graces within her yet she had honourable women without her as her attendants and for the question whether this inward glory is to be so much sought for within the gates of Rome is the question and not yet decided King My Lord I l'e deale as ingeniously with you
power to seize upon its prey but is endued with a lively spirit able to overcome the greatest ignorance yet there is a quick sented assistant called Ecclesia or Church which is derived from a verbe which signifies to call which must be the Jack-call to which this powerfull seeker after this prey must joyn it self or else it will never be able to find it out and when we are called we must go soberly to work untill by this meanes we have attained unto the true understanding and sight thereof and then let the Lion like the Eagle Maher-shalal-hashbaz as the Prophet Esay cap. 8. v. 3. tells us make hast to the prey make speed to the spoile Saint Paul confirmes the use of this Etimologie writing to the Corinthians viz. To the Saints called and the Ephesians cap. 4. he tells us if ye would be in one body and in one spirit and of one mind you must be as you are called in our hope of your vocation and in his Epistle to the Colossians cap. 3. he tells us that if we will have the peace of Christ to rule in our hearts that is it by which we are called in one self body where we must allovv a constitution or Societie of men called to that purpose and whose calling it is to procure unto us this peace and unitie in the Church or we shall never find it Thus when dissention arose between Paul and Barnabas concerning Circumcision their disputations could effect nothing but heat untill the Apostles and Elders met together and determined the matter there must be a society of men that can say bene visum fuit nobis spiritui sancto or else matters of that nature will never be determined vvhich societie is there called the Church vvhich Church we are to find King I pray my Lord what do you meane by the holy Catholick Church do you meane the Church of Rome Marq. I do so King My thinks it should be inconsistent with it to be both universall and particular Marq. No more then it is inconsistent for the Generall of Your Army to be Generall of all Your Officers and Souldiers and yet a particular man By the word Roman we intend not the particular Church of Rome but all the Churches which adhere and are joyned in Communion with the Roman Church as by the Jewish Church was not onely meant the Church of Judah onely but of all the other Tribes which had Communion with her the word Catholick is taken in three severall sences formally causually and participatively In the first sence the Societie of all the true particular Churches united in one self-same Communion is called Catholick Causually the Roman Church is called Catholick for as much as she infuseth universalitie into all the whole body of the Catholick Church wherefore being a Center and begining of Ecclesiasticall Communion infusing unitie which is the form of of universalitie into the Catholick Church She may be called Catholick Participatively because particular Churches agree and participate in Doctrine and Communion with the Catholick King You have satisfied me why the Church of Rome in your sence may be called Catholick but you have not yet satisfied me why other Churches may not be called causually as much Catholik as she being the Greek Church hath infused as much universalitie into the wholy body of the Catholick Church as she did and was both center and circumference as much as ever she was Marq. Sir as to this point I shall refer Your Majestie to the learned reply that the profound Card. Peroon so respectfully and learnedly made to Your royall Father his Apologie wherein this point is largely and to my apprehension fully answered But will Your Majestie either give or take either let me shew you this Church or else do Your Majestie shew it me King My Lord if you can shew it me I shall not shut mine eyes against it But at this time truly my Lord I can hardly hold them open My Lord I pray will you set down your mind in writing and I will promise you it shall want no animadvertion and that I will give you my clear opinion concerning it Marq. O Sir Literae scriptae manent I do not like that what I speak here to Your Majestie I can promise my self so much from Your goodness that no bad Construction shall be made of what I speak But if my writing should come into other folkes hands I may justly fear their comments wherefore I desire to be excused King My Lord I hould it more convenient so to doe I will promise you that I will let no eyes but mine own view your Paper and I will returne it to you again by the Doctor Marq. Vpon that Condition I am contented I have one request more unto Your Majestie that You would make one Prayer to God to direct You in the right way and that You would lay aside all prejudice and self-interest and that You will not so much fear the Subject as the Superiour who is over all and then You cannot do a miss King My Lord all this shall be done by the Grace of God Whereupon the Marquess called upon me to help him so that he might kneel and being upon his knees he desired to kiss His Majesties hand which he did saying Sir I have not a thought in my heart that tends not to the service of my God and you and if I could have resisted this motion of his Spirit I had desisted long ago but I could not wherefore on both my knees I pray to his Divine Majestie that he will not be wanting to his own Ordinance but will direct Your understanding to those things which shall make You a happy King upon Earth and a Saint in Heaven And thereupon he fell a weeping bidding me to light His Majestie to His Chamber As the King was going he said unto the Marquess My Lord it is great pittie that you should be in the wrong Whereat the Marquess soon replyed It is greater pittie that You should not be in the right The King said God direct us both The Marquess said Amen Amen I pray God Thus they both parted and as I was lighting His Majestie to His Chamber His Majestie told me that he did not think to have found the old Man so ready at it and that he believed he was a long time putting on his armour yet it was hardly proofe To which I made answer that I believe his Lordship had more reason to wonder how His Majestie so unprepared could withstand the on set The King being brought to His door commanded me that before I brought him his Lordship Paper I should peruse it and give him my opinion of it Which I promised to obey and so returned to the Marquess whom I found in the dark upon his knees whom I did not disturbe but when he rise he said unto me Doctor I will tell you what I was doing I was giving God thanks that he had preserved the use
of my memory for so good a work and imploring a blessing upon my endeavours To which I made answer My Lord no question but you think it a good work or else you would not implore Gods blessing upon it Whereupon my Lord said Ah! Doctor I would to God you thought so too And waiting upon him into his Chamber he further said unto me Doctor Bayly you know I am obliged not to speak unto you in this nature yet I hope I may say thus much unto you without any breach of promise you may be an Instrument of the greatest good that ever befell this Nation I say no more Good night to you The third day after he gave me this Paper to deliver unto His Majestie which I did The Marquess his Paper to the King IT must be granted by all that there must be alwayes in the world one holy Catholick and Apostolique Church one that it may be uniforme holy that it may be certain Catholick that it may be known and Apostolick that it may succeed this Church must be either the Romane or the Protestant or else some other that is opposite to both It cannot be any Church which is opposite to both because the Church of England did not when she separated from the Romane joyn her self to any not to the Grecian for that houlds as many Doctrines contrary to the Church of England as doth the Romane nor to any else because she agrees with none no reformed Church under the Sun that is or ever was hath the same articles of beliefe as hath the Church of England and from any other Church besides the Romane she never had a being and with any other Church besides the Romane she never had Communion She cannot be that one because she is but one nor Catholick because she agrees not with any nor Apostolick because she hath acknowledged such a fine and recovery that has quite cut off the entaile which would have otherwise descended unto her from the Apostles neither can she be holy because she is none of all the other three Now if these Attributes cannot belong unto the Protestant Religion and do clearly belong unto the Roman then is the Church of Rom the Catholick Church And that it doth I shall prove it by the marks which God Almighty hath given us whereby we should know her And the first is Vniversality All Nations shall flow unto her Esa 2. 2. And the Psalmist The heathen shall be thine inheritance and the uttermost part of the Earth for thy possession Psal 2. 2. And our Saviour Matth. 20. 14. This Gospel of the Kingdome shall be preached in all the world as a witness to all Nations c. Now I confesse that this glory is belonging to all Professors of the Christian Religion yet amongst all those who do profess the name of Christ I believe Your Majestie will consent with me herein that the Romane Church hath this forme of universality not onely above all different and distinct Professors of Religion but also beyond all Religions of the world Turkes or heathens and that there is no place in the world where there are not Romane Catholicks which is manifestly wanting to all other Religions whatsoever Now I hope Your Majestie cannot say so of any Protestant Religion neither that Your Majestie will call all those who protest against the Church of Rome otherwise then Protestants but not Protestant Catholicks or Catholicks of the Protestant Religion being they are not religated within the same Communion and fellowships for then Religion would consist in protestation rather then unity in Nations falling off from one another rather then all nations flowing to one another neither is it a Consideration altogether invalid that the Church of Rome hath kept possession of the name all along other reformed Churhes leaving her in possession of the name and taking unto themselves new names according to their severall founders except the Church of England who is now herself become like a Chapter that is full of nothing else whose founder was such a one whose name it may be they were unwilling to own For antiquitie if we should inquire after the old paths which is the good way and walk therein as the Prophet Jeremiah adviseth us if we should take our Saviours rule Ab initio autem non fuit sic if we should observe his saying how the good seed was first formed and then the tares If we should consider the pit from whence we were dug and the rock from whence we were hewen we shall find antiquity more applicatory to the Church of Rome then any Protestant Church But you will say your Religion is as ancienâ— as ours having its procedure from Christ and his Apostles so say the Lutheran Protestants with their Doctrine of Consubstantiation and many other sorts of Protestants having other Tenents altogether contrary to what you hold how shall we reconcile you so say all hereticks that ever were how shall we confute them a part to set up themselves against the whole and by the power of the sword to make themselves Judges in their own causes is dealing that were it your case I am sure you would think it very hard I wish you may never find it so For Visibility Our Saviour compares his Church to a Citie placed on a hill according unto the Prophet Davids Prophesie a Tabernacle in the Sun It is likewise compared unto a candle in a candle-stick not under a bushell and saith our Saviour If they shall say unto you behold he is in the desart go ye not forth Behold he is in secret places believe it not forewarning us against obscure and invisible Congregations Now I beseech Your Majestie whether should I betake my self to a Church that was alwayes visible and gloriously eminent Or to a Protestant Church that was never eminent and for the most part invisible shrowding their defection under an Apostolicall Expression of a woman in the Revelation who fled into the wilderness for a thousand years as if an allegory could wipe out so many clear texts of Scripture as are set down by our Saviour and the Prophets concerning the Churches invisibility And I could not find any Church in the world to whom that Prophesy of Esay might more fitly appertain then to the Church of Rome I have set watch-men upon the walls which shall never hold their peace day nor night which I am sure no Protestant Church can apply to her self It is not enough to say I maintaine the same Faith and Religion which the Apostles taught and therefore I am of the true Church ancient and visible enough because as I have said before every heretick will say as much but if you cannot by these markes of the Church set down in Scripture clear your selves to be the true Church you vainly appeal to the Scriptures siding with you in any particular point for what can be more obsurd then to appeale from Scripture setting things down clearly unto Scripture
and this not onely is but must be the meaning of Saint Gregory for he thus explicates the matter himself lib. 4. ind 13. ep 32. viz. The Care of the Church hath been committed to the Prince of all the Apostles Saint Peter and yet had Saint Peter called himself the Vniversall Apostle in the first sence seeing that Christ Jesus made other Apostles as well as him he had been no Apostle himself but Antichrist and yet this hindred not but that the care and principality was committed unto Peter Whereby you may plainly see how he ascribes a head-ships over the Church whilst he denies the Vniversalitie of Episcopacie Wherefore having shewed Your Majestie my Church I humbly beg that You will be pleased either to give me a few lines in answer hereunto or else to shew me Yours The Kings Paper in answer to the Marquess MY Lord I have perused your Paper whereby I find that it is no strange thing to see error triumph in antiquitie and florish all those ensigns of Universality Succession Unitie Conversion of Nations c. in the face of truth and nothing was so familiar either with the Jews or Gentiles as to besmeare the face of truth with spots of noveltie for this was Jeremiahs case Jerem 44. 16. viz. As for the word which thou hast spoken unto us in the Name of the Lord we will not hearken unto thee but we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouths to burn incense unto the Queen of heaven and to powre out drink-offering unto her as we have done we and our fathers our Kings and our Princes in the Cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem as we have done there is Antiquitie we and our fathers there is Succescession In the Cities of Judah and Jerusalem there is Universalitie so Demetrius urged Antiquitie and Universality for his goddes Diana viz. That her temple should not be despised nor her Magnificence destroyed whom all Asia and the world worshipped So Symacchus that wise Senator though a bitter enemie to the Christians Servanda est inquit tot seculis fides sequendi sunt nobis parentes qui feliciter sequuti sunt suos we must defend that Religion which hath worne out so many ages and follow our Fathers steps who have so happily followed theirs So Prudentius would have put back Christianitie it self viz. Nunc dogma nobis Christianum nascitur post evolutos mille demum Consules Now the Christian Doctrine begins to spring up after the revolution of a thousand Consul-ships But Ezekiel reads us another lecture Ne obdurate cervices vestras ut patres vestri cedite manum Jehovae ingredimini sanctuarium ejus quod sanctificavit in saeculum colite Jehovam Deum vestrum Be not stiff necked as your forefathers were resist not the mightie God enter into his sanctuarie which he hath consecrated for ever and worship yee the Lord your God Radbodus King of Phrygia being about to be baptized asked the Bishop what was become of all his ancestors who were dead without being baptized The Bishop answered that they were all in hell whereupon the King suddenly withdrew himself from the font saying Ibi profecto me illis Comitem adjungam Thither will I go unto them no lesse wise are they who had rather erre with fathers and Councels then rectifie their understanding by the word of God and square their faith according to its rules Our Saviour Christ saith we must not so much hearken to what has been said by them of old time Matth. 21. 12. as to that which he shall tell you where Auditis dictum esse antiquitis is exploded and Ego dico vobis is come in its place which of them all can attribute that credit to be given unto him as is to be given to Saint Paul Yet he would not have us to be followers of him more then he is a follower of Christ 1 Cor. 11. 1. Wherefore if you crie never so loud Sancta mater Ecclesia sancta mater Ecclesia the holy mother Church holy mother Church as of old they had nothing to say for themselves but Templum Domini Templum Domini the Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord we will crie as loud again with the Prophet Quomodo facta est meretrix Vrbs fidelis how is the faithfull Citie become a harlot if you vaunt never so much of your Roman Catholick Church we can tell you out of Saint John that she is become the Synagogue of Sathan neither is it impossible but that the house of prayers may be made a Den of theeves you call us hereticks we answer you with Saint Paul Act. 24. 14. After the way which you call heresie so worship we the God of our fathers believing all things which were written in the Law and the Prophets I will grant you that all those marks which you have set done are marks of the true Church and I will grant you more that they were belonging to the Church of Rome but then you must grant me thus much that they are as well belonging to any other Church who hold and maintain that doctrine which the Church of Rome then maintained when she wrought those conversions and not at all to her if she have changed her first love and fallen from her old principles for it will do her no good to keep possession of the keyes when the lock is changed now to try whether she hath done so or no there can be no better way then by searching the Scriptures for though I grant you that the Catholick Church is the white in that butt of earth at which we all must aim yet the Scripture is the heart centre or peg in the midst of that white that holds it up from whence wee must measure especially when wee are all in the white We are all of us in gremio Ecclesiae so that controversies cannot be decided by the Catholick Chruch but by the Scriptures which is the thing by which the nearnes unto truth must be decided for that which must determine truth must not be fallible but whether you mean the consent of Fathers or the decrees of generall Counsels they both have erred I discover no Fathers nakednesse but deplore their infirmities that we should not trust in armes of flesh Tertullian was a montanist Cyprian a rebaptist Origin an Anthropomorphist Heirom a Monoganist Nazianzen an Angelist Eusebius an Arrian Saint Augustine had written so many errors as occasioned the writing of a whole book of retractaions they have often times contradicted one another and some times themselves Now for generall Counsels Did not that Concilium Ariminense conclude for the Arrian heresie Did not that Concilium Ephesinum conclude for the Eutichian heresie Did not â—hat Concilium Carthaginense conclude 〈◊〉 not lawfull for Priests to marry Was not Athanasius condemned In … cilio Tyrio Was not Eiconolatria established In concilio Nicaeno secundo What should I say more when the Apostles
and whose opinions are most approved of by the Primitive times Fathers and what ground your late Divines have built their new opinions upon and then I shall give your Majesty an answer to the objection which you make against our Church viz. That she hath forsaken her first love and fallen from the principles which she held when she converted us to Christianity But first to the removall of those rubs in our way and then I shall shew as much reverence to the Scripture as any Protestant in the world and shall endeavour to shew your Majesty that the Sctiptures are the Basis or foundation upon which our Church is built Your Majesty was pleased to urge the errors of certain Fathers to the prejudice of their authority which I conceive would have been so had they been all Montanists Rebaptists all Anthropomorphists and all of them generally guilty of the faults where-with they were severally charged in the particulars seeing that when we produce a Father we doe not intend to produce a man in whose mouth was never found guile the infallibility being never artributed by us otherwise then unto the Church not unto particular Church-men as Your Majesty hath most excellenly observed in the failings of the holy Apostles who erred after they had received the holy Ghost in so ample manner but when they were all gathered together in Councell and could send about their edicts with these capitall letters in the front Visum est spiritui sancto nobis Acts 15. 28. then I hope your Majesty cannot say that it was possible for them to erre So though the Fathers might erre in particulars yet those particular errors would be swallowed up in a generall Councel and be no more considerable in respect of the whole then so many heat-drops of error can stand in competition with a cloud of witnesses to the divine truth be no more prejudiciall to their general determinations then so many exceptions are prejudicial to a general rule Neither is a particular defection in any man any exception against his testimony cept it be in the thing wherhin he is deficient for otherwise we should be of the nature of the flies who only prey upon corruption leaving all the rest of the body that is whole unregarded Secondly Your Majesty taxes generall Councels for committing errors If Your Majesty would be pleased to search into the times wherein those Councels were called Your Majesty shall find that the Church was then under persecution and how that Arrian Emperours rather made Assemblies of Divines then called any generall Councels and if we should suppose them to be generall and free Councels yet they could not be erroneous in any particular mans judgement untill a like generall Councel should have concluded the former to be erroneous except you wil allow particulars to condemn generals private men the whol Church all generall Councels from the first unto the last that ever were or shall be maks but one Church and though in their intervails there be no session of persons yet there is perpetuall virtue in their decretals to which every man ought to appeal for judgment in point of controversie Now as it is a maxim in our law Nullum tempus occurrit regi so it is a maxim in divinity Nullum tempus occurrit deo Vbi deus est as he promised I will be with you alwaies unto the end of the world that is with his Church in directing her chief Officers in all their consultations relating either to the truth of her doctrine or the manner of her discipline wherefore if it should be granted that the Church had at any time determined amiss the Church cannot be said to have erred because you must not take the particular time for the Catholick Church because the Church is as well Catholick for time as territory except that you will make rectification an error For as in civil affairs if that wee should take advantage of the Parliaments nulling former Acts and thereupon conclude that we will be no more regulated by its lawes we should breed confusion in the Common-wealth for as they alter their lawes upon experience of present inconveniences so the Councels cange their decrees according to that further knowledge which the holy writ assures us shall encrease in the latter daies provided that this knowledge he improved by means approved of and not by every enthusiastick that shall oppose himself against the whole Church If I recall my own words it is no error but an avoidance of error so where the same power rectifies it selfe though some things formerly have been decreed amiss yet that cannot render the decrees of generall Councels not binding or incident to error quoad ad noâ— though in themselves and protempore they may be so As to Your Majesties objecting the errors of the holy Apostles and pen-men of the holy Ghost and Your inference thereupon viz. That truth is no where to be found but in holy Scripture under Your Majesties correction I take this to be the greatest argument against the private spirit urged by your Majesty its leading us into all truth that could possibly be found out For if such men as they indued with the holy Ghost inabled with the power of working miracles so sanctyfied in their callings and enlightened in their understandings could erre how can any man lesse quallified assume to himself a freedome from not erring by the assistance of a private spirit Lastly as to Your Majesties quotations of so many Fathers for the Scriptures easines and plainnesse to be understood If the Scriptures themselves doe tell us that they are hard to be understood so that the unleaned and unstable wrest them to their own destruction 2 Peter 3. 16. and if the Scripture tells us that the Eunuch could not understand them except some man should guide him as Acts 8. 13. and if the Scripture tels us that Christs own Disciples could not understand them untill Christ himself expounds them unto them as Luke 24. 25. and if the Scriptures tell us how the Angel wept much because no man was able either in heaven or earth to open the Book sealed with seven seals nor to look upon it as Apoc. 5. 1. then certainly all these sayings of theirs are either to be set to the errata's that are be hind their books or else we must look out some other meaning of their words then what Your Majesty hath inferr'd from thence as thus they were easie id est in aliquibus but not in omnibus locis or thus they were easie as to the attainment of particular salvation but not as to the generall cognisance of all the divine mystery therein contained requisite for the Churches understanding and by her alone and her consultations and discusments guided by an extraordinary and promised assistance only to be found out of which as to every ordinary man this knowledge is not necessary so hereof he is not capable First we hold the reall presence
you deny it we say his body is there you say there is nothing but bare bread we have Scripture for it Mat. 20. 26. Take eat this is my body so Luke 22. 19. This is my body which is given for you You say that the bread which we must eat in the Sacrament is but dead bread Christ saith that that bread is living bread you say how can this man give us his flesh to eat we say that that was the objection of Jewes and Infidels 1 John 6. 25. not of Christians and believers you say it was spoken figuratively we say it was spoken really revera or as we translate it indeed John 6. 55. But as the Jewes did so do ye first murmur that Christ should be bread John 6. 41. Secondly that that bread should be flesh John 6. 52. And thirdly that that flesh should be meat indeed John 6. 55. untill at last you cry out with the unbelievers this is a hard saying who can hear it John 6. 60. had this been but a figure certainly Christ would have removed the doubt when he saw them so offended at the reallity Joh. 6. 61. He would not have confirmed his saying in terminis with promise of a greater wonder John 6. 62. you may as well deny his incarnation his ascention and ask â—ow could the man come down from heaven and go up again if incomprehensibility should be sufficient to occasion such scruples in your breasts and that which is worse then naught you have made our Saviours conclusion an argument against the premises for where our Saviour tels them thus to argue according unto flesh and bloud in these words the flesh profiteth nothing and that if they will be enlivened in their understanding they must have faith to believe it in these words it is the Spirit that quickneth John 6. 63. They pervert our Saviours meaning into a contrary sense of their own imagination viz. the flesh profiteth nothing that is to say Christs body is not in the Sacrament but it the Spirit that quickneth that is to say we must onely believe that Christ dyed for us but not that his body is there as if there were any need of so many inculcations pressures offences mis-believings of and in a thing that were no more but a bare memoriall of a thing being a thing nothing more usuall with the Israelites as the twelve stones which were errected as a sign of the children of Israels passing over Jordan That when your children shall ask their Fathers what is meant thereby then ye shall answer them c. Josh 4. there would not have been so much difficulty in the belief if there had not been more in the mystery there would not have been so much offence taken at a memorandum nor so much stumbling at a figure The Fathers are of this opinion Saint Ignat. in Ep ad Smir. Saint Justin Apol 2. ad Antonium Saint Cyprian Ser. 4. de lapsis Saint Ambr. lib. 4. de Sacram. Saint Remigius c. affirm the flesh of Christ to be in the Sacrament and the same flesh which the word of God took in the Virgins wombe Secondly We hold tbat there is in the Church an infallible rule for understanding of Scripture besides the Scripture it self this you deny this we have Scripture for as Rom. 12 16. we must prophesie according to the rule of faith we are bid to walke according to this rule Gal. 6. 16. we must encrease our faith and preach the Gospel according to this rule 1 Cor. 10. 15 this rule of faith the holy Scriptures call a form of doctrine Romans 6. 17. a thing made ready to our hands 2. Cor. 10. 16. that we may not measure our selves by our selves 2 Cor. 10. 12. the depositions committed to the Churches trust 1 Tim. 6. 20. for avoiding of prophane and vain bablings and oppositions of sciences and by this rule of faith is not meant the holy Scriptures for that cannot do it as the Apostle tels us whilst there are unstable men who wrest this way and that way to their own destruction but it is the tradition of the Church and her exposition as it is delivered from hand to hand as most plainly appears 2 Tim. 2. 2. viz. The things which thou hast heard of us not received in writing from me or others among many witnesses the same commit thou to faithfull men who shall be able to teach it to others also Of this opinion are the Fathers Saint Irenaeus 4. chap. 45. Tertull de praescr and Vnicent lir in suo commentario saith It is very needfull in regard of so many errors proceeding from mis-interpretations of Scripture that the line of propheticall and Apostolicall exposition should be directed according to the rule of the Ecclesiasticall and Catholike sense and saith Tertullian praescript advers haeres chap. 11. We do not admit our adversaries to dispute out of Scripture till they can shew who their Ancestors were and from whom they received the Scriptures for the ordinary course of doctrine requires that the first question should be from whom and by whom and to whom the form of Christian Religion was delivered otherwise prescribing against him as a stranger for otherwise if a heathen should come by the Bible as the Eunuch came by the Prophesie of Esay and have no Philip to enterpret it unto him he would find out a Religion rather according to his own fancy then divine verritie In matters of faith Christ bids us to observe and doe whatsoever they bid us who fit in Moses seat Mat. 22. 2. therefore surely there is something more to be observed then only Scripture will you not as well believe what you hear Christ say as what ye hear his Ministers write you hear Christ when you hear them as well as you read Christ when you read his word He that heareth you heareth me Luke 10. 16. We say the Scriptures are not easie to be understood you say they are we have Scripture for it as is before manifested at large the Fathers say as much Saint Irenaeus lib. 2. chap. 47. Origen contr Cels and Saint Ambr. Epist 44. ad Constant calleth the Scripture a Sea and depth of propheticall riddles and Saint Hier. in praefat comment in Ephes and Saint Aug Epist 119. chap 21 saith The things of holy Scripture which I know not are more then those that I know and Saint Denis Bishop of Corinth cited by Eusebius lib. 7. hist. Eccles 20. saith of the Scriptures that the matter thereof was far more profound then his wit could reach We say that this Church cannot erre you say it can we have Scripture for what we say such Scripture that will tell you that fools cannot erre therein Esaiah 35. 8. such Scripture as will tell you if you neglect to hear it you shall be a heathen and a publican Mat. 18. 17. such Scripture as will tell you that this Church shall be unto Christ a glorious Church a Church that shall be
thy Covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is water by this pit could not be meant the place of the damned for they have no share in the Covenant neither are they Christs prisoners but the devils neither could this pit be the grave because Christs grave was a new pit where never any was laid before The Fathers affirm as much Saint Hier in 4. ad Ephes Saint Greg. li. 13. Moral ca. 20. Saint Aug. in Psal 3. 7. v. 1. We hold purgatory fire where satisfaction shall be made for sinnes after death you deny it we have Scripture for it 1 Gor 3. 13. 15. The fire shall try every mans work of what sort it is if any mans work shall de burnt he shall suffer losse but he himselfe shall be saved yet so as by fire Saint Aug so interprets this place upon the 37. Psalme also Saint Amb upon 1 Cor 3. and Ser 20. in Ps 118. Saint Hier lib. 2. chap 13. ad vers Joan Saint Greg li 4. dialog ca 39. Orig. hom 6. in ca 15. Exod. Lastly We hold extream Vnction to be a Sacrament you neither hold it be a Sacrament neither doe you practise it as a duty we have Scripture for it James 5. 13. Is any sick among you let him call the Elders of the Church and let them pray over him annointing him with oyle in the name of the Lord and the prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord shall raise him up and if he have committed sins they shall be forgiven him Neither any nor all the Sacraments were or could be more effectual mens good nor more substantiall in matter nor more exquisite in forme nor more punctuall in designation of its ministry other Sacraments being bounded within the limits of the souls only good this extends it self to the good both of soul and body he shall recover from his sicknesse and his sins shall be forgiven him and yet it is both left out in your practise and acknowledgment The Fathers are on our side Orig Hom 2. in Levit S. Chrys lib 3. de Sacerd S. Aug in speculo Ser 215. de temp Vener Bed in 6. Marke and S. James and many others Thus most Sacred SIR we have no reason to wave the Scriptures umpirage so that you will hear it speake in the mother language and not produce it as a witnesse on your side when the producers tell us nothing but their owne meaning in a language unknown to all the former ages and then tell us that shee saith so and they will have it so because he that hath a Bible and a sword shall carry away the meaning from him that hath a Bible and ne're a sword nor is it more blasphemy to say that the Scripture is the Churches off-spring because it is the word of God then it is for me to say I am the sonne of such a man because God made me instrumentally I am so and so was shee for as saith S. Aug Evangelio non crederem nisi me Ecclesiae authoritas commoveret I should not believe the Gospel it self unlesse I were moved by the authority of the Church There was a Church before there was a Scripture take which Testament you please We grant you that the Scripture is the Originall of all light yet we see light before we see the Sun and we know there was a light when there was no Sun the one is but the body of the other We grant you the Scriptures to be the Celestiall globe but we must not grant you that every one knowes how to use it or that it is necessary or possible they should We grant that the Scripture is a light to our feet and a lanthorne to our paths then you must grant me that it is requisite that we have a guide or else we may lose our way in the light as well as in the darke We grant you that it is the food of our souls yet there must be some body that must divide or break the bread We grant you that it is the only antidote against the infection of the Devil yet it is not every ones profession to be a compounder of the ingredients We grant Your Majesty the Scripture to be the only sword and buckler to defend a Church from her Ghostly enemies yet I hope you will not have the glorious company of the Apostles and the goodly fellow ship of the Prophets to exclude the noble Army of Martyrs and the holy Church which through all the world doth acknowledge Christ wherefore having shewen Your Majesty how much the Scriptures are ours I shall now consider Your opinions apart from us and see how they are Yours and who sides with You in Your opinion besides Your selfe and first I shall crave the boldnesse to begin with the Protestants of the Church of England The Church of England WHose Religion as it is in opposition to ours consists altogether in denying for what she affirmes we affirme the same as the Real presence the infallibility visibility universality and unity of the Courch confession and remission of sins free-will and possibility of keeping the Commandments c. all these things you deny and you may as well deny the blessed Trinity for we have no such word in Scripture only inference then that which ye have already denied and for which we have plaine Scripture Fathers Councels practise of the Church Whereas matters of so weighty concernment as delivering of mens souls into the Devils hands should not be executed but upon mature deliberation and immergent occasions and not by any but those who have the undoubted authority lest otherwise you make the authority it self to be doubted of that which ye hold positive in your discipline is more erroneous then that which is negative in our Doctrine as your maintaining a woman to be Head Supreame or Moderatrix in the Church who by the Apostles rule is not to speak in the Church or that a Lay-man may be so what Scripture or Fathers or custome have ye for this or that a Lay-man as your Lay-Chancellours should Excommunicate and deliver up soules to Sathan a strange Religion whose Ministers are deny'd the power of remitting sins whilst Lay-men are admitted to the power of retaining them and that upon every ordinary occasion as non-payment of fees and the like Whereas such practises as these have rendred the rod of Aaron no more formidable then a reed shaken with the wind so that you have brought it to this that whilst such men as these were permitted to excommunicate for a three-peny matter the people made not a three-peny matter of their Evcommunication The Church of Saxony NOw for the Church of Saxony you shall find Luther a man not only obtruding new Doctrine upon his Disciples without Scripture or contrary to Scripture but also Doctrine denying Scripture to be Scripture and vilipending those books of Scripture which were received into the Canon and acknowledged to be
diligently read it over not without choller when I perceived what manner of writing very many let me not say for the most part but all doe use in the Churches of the reformed Gospel who would seeme notwithstanding to be Pastors Doctors and Pillars of the Church The state of the question that it may not be understood we often of set purpose over-cloud with darknesse things which are manifest we impudently deny things false we without shame avouch things plainly impious we propose as the first principles of faith things orthodoxall we condemn of heresie Scripture at our pleasure we detort to our own dreams we boast of Fathers when we will follow nothing lesse then their doctrine to deceive to calumniate to rail is familiar with us so as we may befend our cause good or bad by right or by wrong all other things we turne upside down Oh times Oh manners e Zanch epist ap Jo Sturm this in fine Ii 7. 8. Missellan It is no marvell that Mr. Sutcliff saies that the Protestant writers offered great violence to the Scriptures expounding them contrary both to antient Fathers History and common reason f Sutclif answ Cal pet p. 141. It is no marvell that Cambden tels us that Holland is a fruitfull province of heretiques g Elizah p 300 It is no marvell that Your royall Father tels us that both Hungary and Bohemea abound with infinite varieties of sects h King James his Works p 371. It is no marvell that he said he could never see a Bible well translaed into English and that the worst of all was the Geneva whereunto were added notes untrue seditious and savoring too much of dangerous and traiterous conceits i Page 45 46. It is no marvell that He protested before the great God that you should never find among the Highland or Border theeves greater ingratitude more lies and vile perjuries then with those phanatick spirits k King James his Works p. 161. It is no marvel that M. Bancroft said that the puritans of Scotland were published in a Declaration by His Majestie to be un-naturall Subjects seditious troublesome and unquiet spirits members of Sathan enemies to the King and the Common-wealth of their owne native Country l Dang posit 2â— And lastly because your Church of England most followed Calvins doctrine of any of the rest I shall shew you what end he made answerable to his beginning and course of life written by two known and appoved Protestant Authors viz. God in the rod of his fury visiting Calvin did horribly punish him before the fearfull hour of his unhappy death for he so struck this heretick with his mighty hand that being in dispair and calling upon the Devil he gave up his wicked soul swearing cursing and blaspheming dying upon the disease of lyce and wormes increasing in a most loathsome ulcer about his privie parts so as none present could endure the stentch these things are objected unto Calvin in publick writing in which also horrible things are declared concerning his lasciviousnesse his sundry abhominable vices and Sodomiticall lusts for which last he was by the Magistrate at Nayon under whom he lived branded on the shoulder with a hot burning iron And this is said of him by Schlusberg m Theolog. Calvinist li. 2. fol. 72. She which is likewise confirmed by Joh. Herennius n lide vita Calvini It may be your Majestie may taxe me of bitternesse or for the discovery of nakednesse But I hope you will give me leave to look what staff I leane upon when I am to look down upon so great terrible a precipice as hell and to consider the rottennesse of the severall rounds of that ladder which is proposed to me for my ascent unto heaven and to forewarne others of the dangers I espie their own words can be none of my railing nor their own accusations my errour except it be a fault to take notice of what is published and make use of what I see Ex ore tuo was our Saviours rule and shall be mine There hath not been used one Catholick Author throughout the accusation and I take it to be the providence of God that they should be thus infatuated as to accuse one another that good men may take heed how they rely upon such mens Judgements in order to their eternall Salvation As to Your Majesties Objection that we of the Church of Rome fell away from our selves and that you did not fall away from us as also to the common saying of all Protestants bidding us to returne to our selves and they will return to us we accept of their offer we will do so that is to say we will hold our selves to the same Doctrine which the Church of Rome held before she converted this Nation to Christianity and then they cannot say we fell away from them or from our selves whilst we maintaine the same Doctrine we held before you were of us that is to say whilst we maintain'd the same Doctrine that we maintained during the four first Councels acknowledged by most Protestants and during Saint August time concerning whom Luther himself acknowledged that after the sacred Scriptures there is no Doctour of the Church to be compared a Luth. loc com Class 4. p. 45. thereby excluding himself and all his associats from being preferd before him concerning whom Mr. Field of the Church writes that Saint Aug. was the greatest Father since the Apostles b li. 3. fol. 170. Concerning whom Covel writs that he did shine in learning above all that ever did or will appear c Covel in his answ to Jo. Burges Concerning whom Jewell appeals as to a true and orthodox Doctor d In his challenge at Pauls Cross Concerning whom Mr. Forrester Non. Tessagraph cals him the Fathers Monarch e In proem p. 3. and Concerning whom Gomer acknowledges his opinion to be most pure f Gom. spec verae Eccles Concerning whom Mr. Whitaker doubts not but that he was a Protestant g Whit. answ to f. Camp in the cont fol. a. 2. parag 28. And lastly concerning whom Your royall Father seemed to appeal when he objected unto Card. Peron that the face exteriour form of the Church was changed since his time and far different to what it was in his dayes wherefore we will take a view of what it was then and see whether we lose or keep our ground and whether it be the same which you acknowledged then to be so firm Our Church believed then a true and reall presence and the orall manducation of the body of Christ in the Sacrament as the prince of the Sacramentarians acknowledged a Zwingl li. de vera falsa relig cap. de Eucharist in these words from the time of Saint Augustin which was for the space of twelve hundred years the opinion of corporal flesh had already got the masterie And in this quality she adored the Eucharist
enclosure of brotherly affection d Cant. 4. 12. Cant. 2. 1. Will you forsake the Rose of Sharon and the Lillie of the Vallies for such a nose-gay for I shall make it apparent unto Your Majestie that the Doctrines which Protestants now hold as in opposition unto us were but so many condemned heresies by the antient and orthodoxall Fathers of the Church and never opposed by any of them as for example Protestants hold that the Church may erre this they had from the Donatists for which they were frequently reproved by St. Augustin a Passim cont Donat. Protestants denie unwritten traditions and urge Scripture onely This they had from the Arrians who were condemned for it by St. Epiphanius and St. Augustin both b Epiph. Her 75. Aug cont maxim li 1. c. 2. ult Protestants teach that Priests may marry this they had from Vigilantius who is condemned for it by St. Hieronimus c Con. Vigilan c. 1. Protestants denie Prayer for the dead this they had from Arrius for which he is condemned by St. August and Epiphanius both d Aug haer 53. Epiphan haer 75. Protestants denie Invocation of Saints this they had from Vigilantius for which he was condemned by St. Hieron e Hic Cont Vigil c. 3. Protestants denie Reverence to Images this they had from Xenias for which he is reproved by Nicephorus f Hist li 16. c. 27. Protestants denie the reall Presence this they had from the Carpenaites who were saith St. Augustin the first Hereticks that denied the reall Presence and that Judas was the first Suborner and Maintainer of this heresie g Aug in Psal 54. and 55. Protestants denie Confession of sins to a Priest so did the Novatian Hereticks and the Montanists for which they are reproved by St. Ambrose and St. Hieron h Ambr i de poenit c. 7. Hier Epist ad Marcle 54. Protestants say that they are justified by Faith onely this they had from the pseudo-Apostles for which they are condemned by St. Augustin i Aug de fide oper c. 14. Lastly as I have shewed Your Majestie that Your Church as it stands in opposition to ours is but a congeries of so many heresies to which I could easily make an enlargement but that I fear I have been too tedious already So I shall make it appear that our Church as she stands in opposition unto yours is true and right even your selves being witnesses you shall find our Doctrine among your own Doctors First the Greek Church whom you court to your side as indeed they are Protestants according to your vulgar reception being you call all those Protestants who are or were in any Opposition to the Church of Rome though in their Tenents otherwise they never so much do disagree For the Greek Church with which you so often hit us in the teeth and take to be of your faction she holds Invocation of Saints Adoration of Images Transubstantiation Communion in one kind for the sick and many others Master Parker confesseth that Luther crossed himself morning and evening and is never seen to be painted praying but before a Crucifix a Against Simb part 1. C. 2. sect 30. p. 105. See Jo Crevel refut Cerem miss p. 188 Jo Manl Loc Com. p. 636. As touching the Invocation of Saints saith Luther I think with the whole Christian Church and hould that Saints are to be honoured by us and invocated b Purgat quorund art in Ep ad Georg. Spal Inever denied Purgatorie saith Luther and yet I believe it as I have often written and confessed c Tom 7. fol 132. adversus bullam See him also in disp Lips c. de purgat resolut de indulg Conclus 16. See likewise Zwingl Tom 2. fol. 378. If it is lawfull saith Luther for the Jewes to have the picture of Caesar upon their Coins much more is it lawfull for Christians to have in their Churches Crosses and Images of Mary d Luth in Consolat prolab Ii 6. See this cited forth of Luth by Hasp Hist Sac p. 2. f. 33. and lastly he maintained the reall Presence e See Zwingl Tom. 2. fol 375. f p. 2. 16. g Pag 209. But let us go a little further and consider what they held whom ye call your Predecessours under whom ye shroud your Visibility and on whom you look beyond Luther for your Doctrines Patronage viz. First upon the Hussites who brake forth about the year 1400. they held seven Sacraments f Transsubstantiation g the Popes primacy h Pag 217. art 7 8. and the Mass i Luth in Colloq Germ c. de missa as Fox in his acts and monuments acknowledgeth Let us go further and consider Wickliffe our own Countrey-man who appeared about the year 1370. he maintained holy water k Wick de blasphem cap 17. worship of Reliques and Images l Idem de Eucharist c. 9. Intercession of the blessed Virgin Mary m Idem in Ser. de Assump Mariae the rites and Ceremonies of the Mass n Idem de apostasia c. 18. all the seven Sacraments o Idem in postill sup c. 15. Marci Moreover he held Opinions contrary and condemned both by Catholick and Protestants as that if a Bishop or Priest be in any mortall sin his Ordaining Consecrating or Baptising is of no effect p Acts and mon p. 96. a art 4. He condemned lawfull Oaths with the Anabaptists q Osiand Epist Hist Eccles p. 459. art 43. Lastly he maintained that any Ecclesiasticall Ministers were not to have any temporall possessions r Act mon p. 96. This last Opinion was such savoury Doctrine that rather then some of those times would not hearken to that they would listen to all as the greedy appetites to Bishops Lands make some now a dayes to hearken unto any thing that Cryers down of Bishops shall foment To go further yet to the Waldenses descended from the race of one Waldo a Marchant of Lions who brake out about the year 1220. These men held the reall Presence Å¿ In Epist 244. p. 450. for which they were reproved by Calvin These men extolled the merit of voluntary poverty they held Transubstantiation t Illiricus Catalog Test p. 1498. and many other opinions which most Protestants no way allow And lastly I shall run your pedegree to the radix and utmost Derivation that the best read Herauld in the Protestant Genealogy can run its line and that is to the Waldenses and to Berengarius who broacht his heresie in the year 1048. and he held all the points of Doctrine that we held onely he differed from us in the point of Transubstantiation And for this cause they took u Idem Catalog Test pag. 1502. him into the name and number of Protestants and Reformers nothwithstanding he presently afterwards recanted and died a Catholick So it ends where it never had beginning Finally if neither prescription of 1600 years possession and continuance of our Churches Doctrine nor our evidence out of the word of God nor the Fathers witnessings to that evidence nor the Decrees of Councels nor your own acknowledgements Be sufficient to mollifie and turne your royall heart there is no more meanes left for truth or me but I must leave it to God in whose hand are the hearts of Kings THis Paper was finished and delivered into His Majesties hands at a very unfit time either for perusall or answer being at the time when Bristoll was delivered up unto the Parliament and the Court in great distraction the King being in a study rather to know which way to goe then how to answer papers Yet His Majesty vouchsafed to run over the leaves rather then the lines with His eye and finding the Paper of some length and full of Quotations His Majesty said To answer this Paper requires a great deale of that which I want and that is time besides I perceive that to make due enquiry into these particulars it will require a great deale of search which if leisure would give leave I believe industry might find a great deale of foul play and mis-quotations Oxford would have been a fitter place for me then Ragland Castle to have entertain'd such an Incounter where the same place that is my Souldiers quarters is his Jesuites Colledge yet I pray tell him I returne his Paper to him againe and shall take another time to answer it when opportunity shall give me leave To morrow I shal ease his Lordship of a heavy burthen and this day will be time little enough for us to consider what course we are to take I prayed God to bless His Majesty in all His wayes and to direct Him in all His consultations The King having as it seem'd fixt His eye upon that place in my Lords Paper where he charged Luther for saying that he received his Doctrine from the Devil asked me what was Luthers meaning thereby or whither or no Luther said any such thing Whereunto I made answer that to my knowledge Luther had written so but I believed his meaning was as elsewhere he said Diabolus me Christianum fecit that having received many combates by the suggestions of the Devil deterring him from undertaking so great a weight as Reformation and having resisted those temptations and at last overcome them he became a better Scholler in the Schoole of Christ and Souldier in that spiritual warfare The King said Luther was a bold man and such high spirits sometimes take a pride to fight against common sence as if it were the common enemy Whereupon some of the Lords came in and I took my leave of His Majesty FINIS Errata PAge 2. lin 19. for Crown read Crosier Pag. 29. l. 8. for Aroties r. Azotus Pag. 54. l. 13. for it necessarie r. it not necessary Pag. 58. l. 23. for constitution r. contrition Pag. 64. l. 12. del two Pag. 91. l. 15. for Apostolicall r. Analogicall and l. 22. for invisibility r. visibility P. 111. l. 12. r. Audistis dictum esse antiquis Pag. 151. l. 21. for inferiour r. interiour Pag. 199. l. 18. for hiddenly r. suddenly