which be Canonicall and which be Apocrypha Protestant 8 How do you know which is the Church And by what meanes may it be knowen that the Church hath authoritie to determine which be Scriptures and which of them be Canonicall and which be Apocrypha Papist There be many notes and markes reckoned vp by the learned of our side by which the Church may be knowen But we insist chiefly vpon these Antiquitie Vnitie Vniuersality Succession and the power of Miracles And for the authority of the Church it is prooued by the Scriptures Protestant 9 This answere is common to all Heretikes for they alleage somtimes the a Author ope Imper. in Mat. Ho. 48. Church sometime b Iren. adu Haere lib. 3. cap. 2. Traditions sometime c Aug. coÌ„tr Maxim Ariâ— episc li. 1. Councels sometime d De Bapt. c. 6. li. 3. Fathers sometime e In Ioh. ca 2. tract 13 Miracles sometime f De vnit eccle c. 16. Visions sometime g Epist 65. ad gener Succession of Bishops yea h Act. 19.27 Demetrius pretended Vniuersalitie And the i Act. 17 18 19. Philosophers Epicures and Stoickes Antiquity And k Vinc. Lir. ca. 6 ca. 4. Vincentius Lirinensis disproueth Vniuersalitie by the example of the Arrians and Antiquity by the example of the Donatists And for their l In Chron. Suput Rom. prat Sigon de Regn. Ital li. â— Vnitie let that appeare in the seuerall oppositions of their Popes one condemning the decrées of another and decréeing one contrary to another And therefore this is no sufficieÌ„t reason for a man to ground his faith and Religion if we beléeue the m StapletoÌ„ Fortresse Hart. ag Ra. pag. 118. Papists in the like cause for it is a common obiection by them that because Heretikes alleage the Scripture therefore they are no suffieient rule Moreouer this answere passeth the limits of the proposition for it presupposeth the authoritie of the Church to be prooued by the Scriptures and the Scriptures to be prooued by the authority of the Church which is Ignotum per ignotius Idem per idem A proofe of a thing vnknowen by a thing lesse knowen and so no proofe at all Therefore to procéede to the next part of the diuision what doe you vnderstand by Traditions Papist I vnderstand Apostilicall doctrine commonly called vnwritten verities and as D.B. P. in his booke against M. Perkins diuides them Some are Diuine some Apostolicall and some Ecclesiasticall all which according to the Councel of Trent are to be receiued with equall reuerence Conc. Trid. Sess 4. and religious affection as we do the Scriptures Protestant 10 How doe you proue Traditions or vnwritten verities to bee Apostolicall doctrine and that they be Diuine Apostolicall and Ecclesiasticall and that they are to bee receiued with equall reuerence and religious affection as we doe the Scriptures Papist 2. Thess 2 15. I proue it by the Scriptures interpreted by the Church Saint Paul saith Hold the Trations which yee haue learned whether it bee by word Conc. Trid. â—ess 4. or by Epistle which by the Churches exposition proueth vnwritten verities to be receiued with equall authoritie to the Scriptures and to explane the same D.B.P. aforesayd affirmeth that Diuine Traditions come from our Sauiour Christ Apostolicall Traditions from the Apostles And the Decrees of the Church hee tearmeth Ecclesiasticall Traditions which are likewise of equall authoritie with the Scriptures Protestant 11 This is a common fault with you to vse this point of Sophistrie called by the Logicians Petitio principij for you wil stil take it for graunted that you are the Church though you neuer prooue it And this is a necessary consequence That if the trueth be doubted of the church must néedes bee much more doubted of because the Church is the number of men professing the trueth And how can the professors of the trueth be seuered from others so long as the trueth by which they should bee knowen is in question Therefore the supposing your selues to be the church when your faith Religion should be tried is fond vain But if S. Paul in that place by Deliuered Tradition meane nothing but the doctrine deliuered to them by word of mouth yet comprised in Scripture too then must you graunt that you are deceiued to thinke that vnwritten Traditions are approued by S. Pauls Traditions Now what the things were which S. Paul deliuered by word to the Thessalonians is shewed in the 17 of the Acts saying Now as they passed thorow Amphipolis and Apolonia they came to Thessalonica where was a Synagogue of the Iewes and Paul as his maner was entred in vnto them and thrée Sabbath dayes hee discoursed vnto them out of the Scriptures opening and alleaging That Christ must haue suffered and risen againe c. In which wordes it is opened both what Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians by word and from whence From whence Out of the Scriptures What That it behooued Christ to suffer and rise againe Besides Saint Paul witnesseth both to small and great that hee said no other thing than that which the Prophets and Moyses did say should come Act. 26 22 The Traditions therefore that Paul doth exhort the Thessalonians to hold is the Tradition of the Gospel as Saint Ambrose writing vpon the same place calleth it very well which the reason also doth prooue that Saint Ambrose noteth that Paul doth there gather saying God hath raised you to saluation by our Gospel therefore stand ye fast and holde the Traditions which ye haue learned whether it be by word or by Epistle Now I hope there is none so impudent to denie that the Gospel is written But here another difficultie incounters vs If it were granted by the Churches interpretation that there were doctrines or Traditions Diuine Apostolicall or Ecclesiasticall deliuered by word of mouth vpon what sure grounds might wee be assured which be the Traditions that were so deliuered by Christ his Apostles or the Church Papist The ancient Fathers chiefe Papists doe plainely teach that many points of doctrine wherein you varie from vs as halowing the Font the blessing of the oyle the anointing the Baptized Exorcismes Fastes Festiuities prayer for the dead prayer to Saints worshipping of Images the oblation of the Sacrifice their Annealing their Primacie of Rome their fiue pretended Sacraments the merit of workes their satisfactions the numbring their sinnes to the Priest their Real presence their halfe CommunioÌ„ c. See the preface for Priests and See Master Middletons booke called Papisto-Mastix Sect. 5. almost all these things which you defend against vs are proued by the Fathers to be deliuered by Tradition Protestant 12 This sheweth euidently that you are guilty of the same fault that the Pharises were Mark 7.9 by Christs owne reproofe saying You cast aside the commaundements of God to maintaine your owne Traditions Mat 15.9 teaching for doctrine
And Saint Iohn witnesseth that our Sauiour Christ saith Iohn 6.53 Except yee eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his blood you haue no life in you and many other testimonies which I omit It wil conuince the Councell of Nice of error in decréeing for the worship of Images contrary to the second commandement But what shall I néede to descend to particularities it will conuince your late Councell of Trent and all other Councels in all those points of doctrine wherein you varie from vs if any Papist dare vndertake to bring the controuersies betwéene vs to that triall And surely since they will seeme to bring Scriptures to prooue the authoritie of the church and that the church cannot erre I sée no reason why they should refuse to make them iudge of all differences betwéene vs. But I maruell they vrge these places of Scripture to prooue that the church representatiue cannot erre séeing they are not able to shew that any one ancient Father hath so vnderstood them or that the whole church is represented in a generall Councell Name one Father that is ancient and not counterfeit for your credit sake that hath interpreted these places of Scripture or any other in that case as you doe If you cannot the world may iustly holde you for wranglers and abusers both of Scriptures and Fathers But let vs a little examine the force of those Scriptures which if they were all granted make nothing against vs if they bee rightly vnderstood The first is When two or thrée are gathered together c. This place is as pregnant for two or thrée faithfull men assembled in Christs name as to a Nationall or a Prouinciall Councell Neither doeth it giue any greater priuiledge to a Generall Councell than it doeth vnto them Bellar. li. 1. de Conc. ca. 12. though it bee alleaged by Bellarmine as the ground for the authorising of Councels All which promise notwithstanding your selues grant That both Nationall and Prouinciall Councels may erre The next place is the sixtéenth of Iohn where the holy Ghost is promised to the Apostles to leade them into all trueth which spirit of trueth is promised to the church and to euery particular member thereof for whome our Sauiour Christ prayeth saying Sanctifie them in thy trueth thy worde is trueth Ioh. 17.17.19 20. And againe I pray not for these alone but for them also that shall beleeue in mee through their worde But what maketh this for generall Councels more then the whole church or euery faithfull member thereof For although this prooueth that the holy Ghost shall euer remayne with the church and with euery true member of the same yet must wee not hereof conclude though it bee as pregnant for euery faithfull particular man as for the whole That either euery member of Christ or euerie Pastor that is the Apostles successour cannot erre Neither is this to be restrained to generall Councels or to the Pope neither must wee thinke that any visible Church may challenge all priuiledges that the Apostles had as necessary to the conuersion of the world Rhem. Test Iohn 16. But your Rhemists will tell you that to teach all trueth and to preserue in trueth and from error the holy Ghost is promised and performed onely to the Church and the choice gouernour and generall Councels Vpon which the Papists conclude that if the Church cannot erre the gouernours of the church cannot erre Is not this substantiall reasoning The whole church cannot erre Ergo the Pastors and preachers cannot erre Deale plainely and directly Do you hereby conclude that all Pastors cannot erre or that no Pastor can erre For to say that no Pastor can erre were apparant madnesse and to say that all Pastors cannot erre stands you in no stead neither is this a good argument The whole Church cannot erre that is all and euery faithfull cannot erre Ergo all Pastors cannot erre This is no kind of consequent for some of the faithfull may be directed to the trueth and they no Pastors nor preachers and many preachers may be preserued from error and they no Bishops and many Bishops may kept in the faith and they not assembled And a great number of those that be assembled may be righty affected and yet not the most part of them And the greater side may be well disposed and yet not the Bishop of Rome without whose confirmation you hold no Councell lawfull And therefore this argument is very childish The whole Church cannot erre Ergo Generall Councels cannot erre and specially the Pope of whom wee shall speake more particularly hereafter neither hath the holy Ghost filled with the vnmeasurable abundance of grace any but Christ Iohn 3.34 Iohn 1.16 for God giueth not the spirit by measure to him of whose fulnesse wee all receiue And it may well bee gathered from the Scriptures 2. Cor. 10.13 Eph. 4.7 that though the holy Ghost be giuen to the Elect yet hee hath giuen it by measure as I may say with Saint Paul not to this end that they may not erre but that they may not erre to death For what thing soeuer is receiued of another it is receiued according to the capacitie of that which receiueth it The last is the 1. Tim. 3.15 The Church is the pillar and ground of trueth therefore it cannot erre If this argument were granted would it follow hereupon that general Councels could not erre but this is sufficiently refuted before And you knowe that Peter was a pillar of trueth and yet hee erred and was reprooued by Saint Paul Gal. 2. yea your Diuines of Paris Articuli Parisienses but lately resolued that Peter erred in faith when Paul reprooued him And the very drift and scope of the place sheweth That Timothie is not sent by Saint Paul to the church to learne his duety but to the Scripture These things write I vnto thée sayth hee hoping to come shortly but if I tarie long that thou mayest knowe how thou oughtest to behaue thy selfe in the house of God which is the church of the liuing GOD the pillar and ground of trueth This church then which Timothie was conuersant in is the church of Ephesus called by S Paul The pillar and ground of trueth But this church of Ephesus hath condemned the doctrine of the Popes supremacie Conc. Flor. Sess vlt. Chalcocondylas de Reb. Turc lib. 6. to which other churches of the East haue likewise condescended Therefore if that be true still which the Church teacheth because S. Paul calleth it the pillar and ground of trueth then the doctrine of the Popes supremacie is wicked and Papistrie is heresie yea euen this church notwithstanding it was called the pillar and ground of trueth is now left desolate to Mahomets wicked impietie But let vs sée by some few testimonies of the Fathers how they haue expounded this place and whether they haue applied it to generall Councels as the Papists do and not
than Clergie men to be discerners of trueth And it is euident by the Scriptures that there is a limitation howe farre the Bishops and Cleargie are to be obeyed and what they are to teach For S. Paul saith Be yee followers of me as I am of Christ 1 Cor. 7. So that he requireth no more of the Corinthians than to follow him as hee followeth Christ And this made him so diligently to distinguish the precepts of Christ from his owne Councels To the married I commaund not I but the Lord to the rest I speake not the Lord. And our Sauiour Christ when he gaue commission to his Apostles He bids them Mat. 28.19 20. Goe teach all nations but what To obserue all things whatsoeuer I haue commanded you And therefore Chrysostome alleaging the wordes of Saint Paul Chrys in 1. ca. 2 Epist ad Tim. Hom. 2. Obey your Ouerseers or Prelates doeth thus limite them But if hee peruert anie poynt of faith though hee be an Angell obey him not And straight after Wee must not obey Paul himselfe if he speake any thing of his owne or as a man but we must obey the Apostle bearing Christ about that speaketh in him It is not lawfull saith Tertullian to deuise any thing of our selues Tertul. de praescrip advers Haeret. nor to follow that which others haue deuised wee haue the Apostles of the Lord for our Authors who deuised nothing of their owne heads but deliuered faithfully to the nations the doctrine which they receiued of Christ Therefore though an Angel from heauen should preach otherwise wee should count him accursed * Chrysost operis imper Ho. 20. in 7. ca. Mat. Euery teacher is a seruant of the Law because hee may neither adde of his owne sense vnto the Lawe nor according to his owne conceit take any thing from the Law but preach that onely which is found in the Law And these instructions both of Fathers and Scriptures were to little purpose if wee were not by them taught how to eschew the euill and followe the good And surely if the Vicars Consistorie and Seate In Luc. 12. were infallible as the Rhemists affirme what néede wee respect or studie to knowe the infinite Testimonies of Scriptures and Fathers brought to this purpose But this doeth not prooue that they are priuiledged and exempted from Erring For the Scriptures which were written for our instruction doe plainely conuince that both Priests and Prophets haue erred For God by the Prophet Malachie describeth what the Priests should doe and what they had done The Priests lippes should preserue knowledge Mala. 2. and they should seeke the Law at his mouth for he is the messenger of the Lord of hostes But yee are gone out of the way O ye Priests ye haue caused many to fall by the Law ye haue broken the couenant of Leui saith the Lord of hostes And this proud priuiledge which the Popes now challenge was claimed by the wicked Priests in Ieremies time Come Iere. 18 1â— say they let vs imagine some deuise against Ieremie for the Law shal not perish from the Priest nor counsell from the wise nor the word from the Prophet But God assureth them by his Prophet Ezech. 7 2â— for their arrogant presumption That the Law should perish from the Priest and counsell from the ancient What grosse idolatrie Vriah the Priest committed to please King Ahaz 2 King 16.10.11 Esay â—8 the Scriptures will tell you And Esay saith The Priest and the Prophet haue erred they haue gone away they faile in vision they stumble in iudgement And wee knowe there haue béen many Bishops and those orderly succéeding if you looke to their dignity not to the doctrine who haue béen heretickes as Berillus Paulus Samosatinus Photinus Nestorius Dioscorus Petrus Apameus Sergius Cyrus Theodorus Macarius And many others Canonically succeeding in Seates and Churches of no small account And if these fell into pestilent heresies that which was often and easie then is contingent and possible still And succession which saued not them froÌ„ erring cannot defend our Popes from the like danger And therefore are wee forewarned and taught by the Scriptures to beware and take héede of such men For S. Paul saith Actâ— 20. Out of your selues shall arise men speaking peruerse things to drawe disciples after them And the Lord when hee saith Beware of false Prophets Mat. 7. noteth that there shall be Prophets by their calling which shall be found false in their teaching As Saint Peter also witnesseth 2 Pet. 2. There were false Prophets among the people of the Iewes euen as there shall bee false teachers amongst you And to what purpose are these with many other testimonies but to teach vs that we must distinguish godly teachers not by office but by doctrine And if there were not an abilitie in vs in some sort to discerne them in vaine were we taught to beware of them neither had the men of Berea béen so highly commended for the triall of their Pastors doctrine Acts 17.11 if it had either béen vnlawfull or not their duety so to haue done But it séemes the Papists insist much vpon the outward quiet of their Church holding out this Buggebeare That the Church cannot erre assuming therby to be lords of scriptures Fathers Councels and all when they list But what hereticall Church may not haue the same quietnesse vpon the same perswasion and yet it preuailes in none but those that can be perswaded That this false priuiledge of not erring belongs to the Church taking the Church in the same sense which the Papists in this Tract vnderstand it of Fathers Councels and the Pope And who knowes not that notwithstanding your late Councel of Trent and diuers other Councels and learned bookes of all sides That yet the controuersies are not ended being indéede the neuer ending knotte of Religion For though this perswasion That the Church cannot erre may sometimes bréede an outwarde quietnesse in the Church yet it hath no force to establish men in the vnitie of Trueth since it may both deceiue and bée deceiued as is in this Treatise prooued Nor to end controuersies because all beléeue it not nor to abolish heresies which many times it may fauour as is euident by some fewe examples both of Popes and Councels before alleaged For further example put the case That some of the Church are perswaded according to Christs Institution and the practise of the Church of Corinth that the Laitie are not to be robbed of the Cup but are to receiue the Eucharist in both kinds and hereby call the priuiledge of the Churches not erring into Question how shall this be decided Shall it be sufficient for the Church or Pope to say I cannot erre and for proofe thereof to call all his Cardinals Abbots and Bishops to auow the same though it be contrary both to Scriptures Fathers and the long continued practice of the Church of
euen by the learned Papists themselues and their Vniuersities yet doe they alleage them against vs in many of their bookes especially in the Rhemes Testament to giue countenance to Popish errors See pag. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. 29. 30. 31. 32. 33. 10 That the consent of the Fathers cannot be shewed nay scarce any ancient Father that all controuersies are to bee determined by the Pope or that hee cannot erre or that hee must summon Councels or that they are of no authoritie vnlesse they bee confirmed by the Pope And yet are these doctrines held Catholike by the Papists and reputed the chiefe pillars of Popery See pag. 75. 11 That al those places of Scripture which are brought by the Papists either to prooue the Popes prerogatiue or the authority of the Church or that the Church cannot erre are by the Fathers writing purposely vpon the same places expounded according to the Protestants sense giuen and contrary to the sense which the Papists giue So farre are the Papists from proouing the generall consent of the Fathers in expounding these Scriptures which they commonly obiect against vs as Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke will I build my Church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it Or the promises of the holy Ghost to be sent to the Church to leade it into all trueth Or To thee will I giue the keyes of the kingdom of Heauen Or The Church is the pillar and ground of Trueth Or Tell the Church Or if hee heare not the Church let him be to thee as an heathen or as a Publicane Or whatsoeuer thou bindest in earth shall be bound in heauen Or any other place of Scripture to the sayd purposes to bee on their side as namely that those Texts should be meant of the Pope Generall Councell or the Church of Rome See pag. 66. 67. 68. 69. 70. 12 That Generall Councels haue erred haue beene contrary one to another haue been reiected by the Papists themselues and so are no sure Rule to build our faith on See pag. 48. 49. 50. 51. 52. 53. 54. 55. 13 That the Popes whom they would haue to be supreame Iudges in al Controuersies haue erred iudicially haue been heretikes as maintaining the heresie of the Monothelites subscribing to the Arrian heresie to the Nestorian heresie haue offered sacrifice to idoles haue been Necromancers and Coniurers See pag. 58. 59. 60. 61. 62. 14 That the Pope can be no competent Iudge and whereunto the Fathers referre vs. See pag. 93 c. LEt me request thee Courteous reader to take noâ—ice that the Texts of Scripture and testimonies of the Fathers cited by me in this Treatise should all haue been set downe in a different letter from the rest of the matter wherewith they are ranked accordingly as you see performed in the Preface and in the later halfe of the booke Now by meanes of my absence and want of direction giuen in this point it could not be discerned by the Printer howe farre the wordes of the Text and Testimonies so to bee distinguished might reach And therefore I cannot but free him from that blame as likewise 2. or 3. literal escapes only excepted from imputation of any the faults hereunder specified some of them being committed in my Copie and the rest through difficulty and darknes of the hand might easily be mistaken In the Text. Page 5. line 7. for allured reade allowed pag. 8. l. 17. Trations Traditions p. 11 l. 19. Priests proofe p. 29. l. â—6 addeth alleageth p. 29. l. 17. tehimony testimony p. 31. l. 2. for 25 15. p. 33. l. 7. fault fable p. 40. l. 9. châ—ice chiefe p. 72. l. 8. cannot which cannot p. 89. l. 1. sense the sense In the Margent Pag. 7. for De Bapt. c. 6. li. 1. reade De Bapt. cont Don. li. 3. pag. 7. prat reade pont pag. 8. 1. Thes 2. Thes pag. 12. 1. Pet. 2.18 1. Pet. 1.18 pag. 20. Aug. in Frut Aug. in Enar. pag. 14. de fulta de falsa pag. 35. li. 1. cap. 22. li 1. cap 23. pag. 36. Tim. Tit. pag. 52. Epist 16 7. Epist 167. pag. 59. against Pope Coelestine C. laudab de conuers Infidel is omitted
the saluation of the faithfull And in his second booke against Cresconius the Grāmarian he saith That there is an Ecclesiasticall Canon ordained whereunto belong the bookes of the Prophets and Apostles By which bookes we iudge all other writings both of the faithful of the Infidels Hier. sup Agge cap. 1. Hierom sayth Those things which of their owne heads they deuise as though they came by Apostolike Tradition without the authority and testimony of the holy Scriptures the sword of Gods word striketh Infinite be the Authorities of the Fathers which might be brought to this purpose but I will conclude the point with Vincentius Lirinensis whome D.B.P. in his booke against M. Perkins Vincent aduer Haeres beleeueth not to haue any such wordes who saith The Canon of the Scripture is perfect and sufficient and more then sufficient to al things And again Not that saith he the Canon alone is not sufficient for all things These Fathers I hope knew the Scriptures aswell as D.B.P. or any other Papist and yet notwithstanding al his their obiections the Protestāts Achilles as he tearmeth it stands vnimpeacht by any thing that this or any other cauiller hath said And yet notwithstanding these euident places brought by the general consent of all the Fathers against the fundamētal Ground of Popery Your Rhemists wil tel you Rhem. Test 2. Thes 2. sect 18.19 if you wil beleeue them that they haue to the contrary plaine Scriptures all the fathers most euident reasons that wee must either beleeue Traditions or nothing at all And that S. Augustine often writeth That many of the articles of our Religion and points of highest importance are not so much to be prooued by Scriptures as by Tradition But if we aske them where S. Austine wrote this often and that of many articles of Religion and poynts of highest importance it must be returned with Non est inuentus Not to be found in S. Austin But they perceiuing the whole waight of their cause to lie in this Rhem. Test fol. 559. haue marshalled nine Fathers in a ranke to proue that we must either beleeue Traditions or nothing And yet the very same Fathers haue shewed That no matter of faith or of any moment to saluation must bee receiued or beleeued without the Scriptures Cypr. ad Pomp. cont epist Stepha Basil contr Eunomium lib. 3. and the Fathers often times by Traditions vnderstand matters contained proued out of the scriptures that in regard the same was deliuered also by word And many times by Traditiōs they vnderstād ceremonies and customs Now chuse whether you will grant a flat contradiction in the Fathers or reconcile them thus and conclude with vs Ergo the Traditions they meane be no parts or points of the Christian faith For we haue their plain confession That all things necessary to saluation are comprised in the scriptures you produce them to witnes That your Traditions be not comprised in the scriptures Ergo by your owne deponents wee conclude That your Traditions be neither necessary to saluation nor points of the Catholike faith Looke wel to this Issue They must either dissent frō you or from themselues Now if you will compare the late doctrine of the Romish Church with these Fathers it shal be euident That they haue not only dissented frō them but also vttered open blasphemy against the sacred Scriptures First Cardinal Cusanus intituleth his booke De authoritate ecclesiae Cōcilij supra contra scripturam Of the the authority of the Church Coūcel aboue against the scriptures Syluester Prierias master of the Popes palace Contr. Luther cōclusi de pot Papae saith That indulgences are warranted vnto vs not by the authority of the scripture but by the authority of the Church and Pope of Rome which is greater Boniface the Archbishop of Mentz saith That all men so reuerence the Apostolike See of Rome that they rather desire the ancient institution of Christian Religiō from the Pope than from the holy scripture This saying the Pope hath so approued that he hath caused it to be inserted into the Cannon lawe Dist 40. c. Si Papa Another saith whosoeuer resteth not on the doctrine of the Roman Church and B. of Rome Syluest Prier contr Luther as the infallible rule of God à qua sacra scriptura roburtrahit auctoritatem from which the sacred scripture draweth strength and authority he is an heretike Eckius saith De Ecclesia Scriptura nisi ecclesiae auctoritate non est authētica The scripture is not authētical but by the authority of the church Cardinal Hosius saith De expresso verbo Dei If any man haue the interpretation of the Church of Rome concerning any place of scripture although he neither knowe nor vnderstand whether and how it agreeth with the words of the scripture notwithstanding he hath ipsissimū verbū Dei the very word of God Cardinal Cusanus saith Nicol. Cusan ad Bohem epi. 7. It is no maruel though the practise of the Church expound the scriptures at one time one way and at an other time another way for the vnderstanding or sense of the scripture runneth with the practise And that sense agreeing with the practise is the quickening spirit Henric. doctor Magister sacripalatij Romae ad Legatos Bohemicos sub Felice Papa 1447. Ad Bohem. ep 2. and therefore the scriptures follow the Church but contrariwise the Church followeth not the scriptures Another saith The Pope may change the holy Gospel and may giue to the Gospel according to place and time another sense To conclude therfore with Cardinal Cusanus This is the iudgement saith he of all them that thinke rightly that foūd the authority vnderstanding of the Scriptures in the allowance of the Church and not contrariwise lay the foundation of the Church in the authority of the scriptures I will not mention others that haue blasphemously said Vid. Chemnit exa par 1. pag. 47. That the scriptures without the authority of the Church are no better than Aesops Fables Thus you see how the Grounds of our Religiō are iustified by the Fathers against these blasphemies of the Romish Church And for that I knowe it commonly obiected that we refuse in disputation conference to handle the groūds of Religion I haue thought good in this smal Tract to examin though briefly the Grounds of your Romish Religion dialogue-wise to the end the truth may be the more liuely discerned by the obiections and answers Wherein if I haue not truely laid downe the Groūds of your Religion for the substance therof Or that they haue either bin mistaken by me or that vsing that breuity I haue done they might be more strongly or effectually vrged on your side or that the reasons vrged on our behalfe be either falsly alleaged or not truly handled I shall take it as a speciall grace done vnto me an argumēt of
a reciprocal loue in you that the faults thereof may bee shewed and manifested by some of the great Rabbies of your side to the end that the weaknes of our cause being laid open I may be drawen to ioine with you in the religion you professe may be brought home to that fold out of which froÌ„ which I am sure in your iudgemeÌ„ts I am departed gone astray as a lost sheep Tâ—is is a charitable request ought not with any colours or sleights to be refused by any of those learned Priests in whom you haue interest since they know of how great merite the winning of soules is And they may the rather be incouraged thereto because these things as they are collected by me are but the doings of a meere lay man therfore if at all may with greater facility be refuted But if the same shall be past ouer with general tearms as heretofore it hath bin in the like as a thing vnworthy the answering Or that I am an heretike obstinate and not to be dealt with theÌ„ may you easily iudge that either your credit is small with those of your profession Or your loue charity very little to me that so earnestly out of the simplicity of my heart desire an answer Or else that the weaknes badnes of your cause cannot abide the touchstone of truth notwithstanding their great swelling brags of challenging vs to dispute with them be so often sounded iâ— your ears And I would to God I might truly say of you that I presume of my self that yoâ— would reade ponder these things with in differencie abandon partiality To the effecting wherof besides my praiers I haue no better meanes than the Apostles doctrine 1. Thess 5.21 Iames. 1. Cor. 2.5 2. Cor. 13.5 Iohn 4.1 Act. 17.11 who willeth you vs all to examine all things to hold fast that which is good and not to haue the faith of our Lord Iesus Christ with respect of persons but to try the spirits whether they be of God therein following the example of the men oâ— Berea who searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so Thus hauing some hope you wil folow this Councel coÌ„mandement comming from so high an authority as the Spirit of God and also for my satisfaction if not for your owne effect this my so charitable reasonable a request as the answering hereof I shal stil continue my prayers to opeÌ„ our eyes that we may see the truth and that we may be made one flocke one fold of that great Shepherd Christ Iesus the Bishop of our soules To whome with the Father and the holy Spirit be all honor and praise now and for euer Amen Yours in the Lord T. V. The Author to the Reader THis smal Tract Christian Reader was at the first composed out of a religious zeale and feruent desire I had to haue withdrawen some of my best friends from that Egyptian darkenesse of Popish superstition And this argument I the rather made choice of because it was often obiected though very vntruely that we durst not handle the Grounds of Religion After I had finished the same I recoÌ„mended it to my best friends as you may see by the Preface thereof the which was by them reciprocally receiued hauing no lesse loue and desire to reclaime me than I had to winne them To which purpose they sent it to some one of the learned on their part by whose sufficiencie the same might bee fully refuted which I assure my selfe by many probable coniectures was Doctor Norris After I had staied some thirteene weeks with desiee and expectation to see the answere therof hauing often solicited the same about that time I receiued a Letter as I take it from the said D.N. importing among many seuerall reproches wherewith hee had laboured to giue satisfaction to them and to impeach the credit both of me and my booke that if I would procure two or three of the best learned of our side to auow it vnder their hands to be the doctrine of our Church That then hee would take vpon him to proue 14. or 15. seueral absurdities and vntruths therein as by his Letter here likewise set downe verbatim may truely appeare This Letter I then answered as it is here likewise inserted And when I had stayed another quarter of a yeere and heard of no answere made or inteÌ„ded to be made I procured with much importunitie the redeliuery of the booke After which because I would leaue the said D.N. as I take it without all excuse and also let my friends see I would presse it to the vtmost I procured two reuerend and learned Ministers M.D. Sutcliffe and M. Anthony Wootton to subscribe the same booke vnder both their hands in this forme following viz The summe and substance of the doctrine contained in this booke is sound and shal be maintained by the grace of God against the whole packe of Iesuits and Masse-priests of the Romish Synagogue After this vpon the late discouery of those hellish and matchlesse treasons against our dread Soueraigne and the whole body of the Realm hauing heard that the said D. N. was apprehended and committed to Bridewel where I likewise vnderstood that he was not close prisoner I repaired vnto him and shewed him this my booke with the subscriptioÌ„ annexed and before specified demaÌ„ding of him whether he had seen the booke and were the author of that Letter Which hee denied affirming that he had neuer seen it till theÌ„ reseruing belike according to their maner of Equivocating that he had neuer seen it till then subscribed in that maner or with some such mentall reseruation All which considered though I am stil perswaded that he was the Author therof I haue preferred the publishing of it though therein mine own wants defects for the maner of handling might by the iudicious learned be in some sort taxed rather than to bury it in sileÌ„ce for that I hope it may bring some benefit not vnworthy my trauel to the indifferent Reader and may happily effect that which thereby I first intended when they shall see I am not afraid in regard of the doctrine therin to diuulge it to the whole world And the rather I am incouraged hereto for that the same is not onely the doctrine of the best learned writers of this our age Nation as it is by me collected but also is warraÌ„ted to be iustified by men of so great sufficiencie that I shall not need to feare shipwracke though the seas swell and the storme rise neuer so hie And so farewel in Christ T. V. The true Copie of the Letter I receiued I Haue perused your Treatise dedicated to your dearest Cousins which I find to be a vaine bundle of words without substance order learning or trueth and if you can procure that two or three of the best learned of your side will auow it vnder their hands to be the
doctrine of your Church else I knowe they will all disclaime from it hauing seen the errors and weaknesse thereof I will take vpon me to shew that in so short and friuolous a discourse you could hardly compile more absurdities than there are couched I wil proue for example that you mistake and vnderstand not the questions your selfe would seeme to handle that you most shamefully belie our Catholike writers guilefully alleage both Fathers and Scriptures heap testimonies of ancient writers without end or purpose make obiections to your selfe and answere thē not at all I will proue that you alleage false Councels amongst the nūber of true without any difference or distinctiō that you reproue Fathers writings as counterfeit which are most approued count bookes of Scriptures Apocrypha which are Canonicall I will prooue in these few lines you write contrary to your selfe contrary to your owne writers I will prooue that the booke is fraught with most palpable lies errors corruptions falsifications if you wil but procure as I sayd before that it may be countenanced by publike authority with the subscriptiōs of 2. or 3. the most deepest schollers of your Sect. In the meane time I let it passe with this bare censure and intreate you but to reade Bellarmine de Pont. de Concil where you shall find most of your obiections of the errors of Popes and Councels already refuted The true Copie of my Letter in answere hereof TO accuse without proofe to say and shewe no reason of all which you in your Letter may iustly be taxed might truely argue mee to want both substance order learning and trueth according to your owne phrase And to free your selfe from the same imputation haue you yeelded any other reason against my booke which you intitie a vaine bundle of words than a boasting bundle of vaine brags Turpe est doctori c. But you would seem to giue a reason why your bare censure as you rightly haue censured your selfe should be a sufficient answere to my booke vnlesse I can procure two or three of the best learned of our side to auow it vnder their hands to be the doctrine of our Church Else you knowe or else you are a false prophet they will all disclaime from it hauing seen the errors and weakenesse thereof But lest I seeme to taxe you with want of learning and truth with bare words onely without proofe as you in the height and eminency of your iudgement haue censured me Can there be greater shew of ignorance thā to require that to be auowed to be the doctrine of our Church which hath beene already by the learned of our side published to the whole world in many of their seueral books daily extāt to be seen And that I cōmit not your fault To speake without proofe do you but instance any one point of doctrine in all my booke and if I doe not shew where the same is iustified by the learned of our side I will willingly acknowledge that error wherewith I haue here charged your selfe And to make it yet more euident if I should require you to confirme the doctrine you should deliuer by two or three of your best Diuines when the same had been published already by Bellarmine Gregorius Valencia your Rhemists and others could any thing conuince me of grosser ignorance It seemes notwithstanding your vaine brag That that you would prooue 15. particularities wherewith you haue charged me and my booke that you are but meanely read in controuersies otherwise you could not be ignorant that there is no doctrine in my booke that is not auowed published either by Iewel against Harding or the B. of Winchester that now is or by D. Rainolds D. Whittaker D. Fulke D. Sparke with many others And albeit I could not haue cōfirmed thus much by these cleere testimonies yet if you had Christianly and charitably weighed with what mind my request was made in my Preface to my Kinsmen wherin I had intreated in these very words That if I had not truely layd downe the Grounds of your Religion for the substance or if they had been mistaken by mee or vsing that breuity I had done they might more strongly haue been vrged or if the reasons I had vrged had been falsly alleaged or not truely handled c. That I would haue taken it as a speciall grace done vnto me c. to haue had the faults thereof manifested shewed that I might haue been drawen to haue been of the same profession with them c. you would neuer haue insisted vpon such a subscription of the deepest schollers of our Sect thereby to haue cauilled and shifted off the answere of my booke how vnlearned soeuer it had been either for the methode or matter But you imagined your wordes were so powerfull that it was sufficient for your followers that you had onely giuen your censure without shewing any further reason Besides my request being so charitable reasonable it seemes you haue small care of winning of soules otherwise I perswade my selfe if you had been assured of your owne sufficiencie to haue answered the booke you would neuer haue insisted vpon so friuolous a request Nor haue preferred the vaine-glory of hauing a learned aduersary before the hope you might not without good probabilitie haue conceiued in reducing many by my conuersion or rather indeede peruersion to haue been of your profession I professe for my part I cannot see any other ground of your Letter directed to me than to inlarge your own ostentation and glory to your followers For to vndertake that you would prooue this and this and not to haue returned the booke whereunto you required the subscription what can be inferred thereof but that you would winne time to delay and shift off the answere But if you will proceede according to my request in the Preface of my booke proue as much as by your Letter you haue presumed without seeking some new shift to delay the time further I will engage my selfe that the same shall bee replied to by one euery way equall to your selfe in all knowledge and literature who notwithstanding the aduantage you promise to your selfe of the absurdities committed by me shall defend the cause I manage and subscribe the same defence with his owne hand Otherwise you shall gaine thus much by your trauell that I wil willingly submit my selfe to be a member of your Church If you refuse these reasonable conditions I must vse your owne olde phrase and tell you that I must needs thinke your cause so weake that it cannot bee maintained I omit to charge you with inciuility in giuing me the Lie For that I cannot but pitie your ignorance that cannot as it seemes though all were false I had sayd speaking by relation distinguish betweene a lie and vntrueth And whereas you referre me in the conclusion of your Letter to Bellarmin de Pont. de Concilijs where you say I shall find most of my
in â—nesis q. 162. Iacob by faith worshipped God vpon the end of his staffe But they traÌ„slate Iacob adored the top of his Rod to countenance their Idolatrie â—n confes Aug. i. 2. c. 8. Tit. 5. Torrensis the Iesuite in the diuision of the coÌ„mandements saith that 3 of them concerne our duty towards God and 7 towards men This doctrine is imbraced by the Papists vpon Austin and Clements authority contrary to al these Fathers folowing whose iudgements they may truely be said to reiect in preferring two before so many As first by the Hebrewes as Li. de decal 〈◊〉 duob opusc â—le legib speciâ— lib. Philo Antiquit. â—ude li. 3. ca. 4. Iosephus In Exod. 20. Aben Ezra next by the Grecians In versib de â—ecalog Gregory Nazianzen In Exod. â—o 8. Origen In Synop. â—et Scriptur Athanasius and In Mat. oper â—mperf Ho. 49. Chrysostome Lastly by the Latines In Epist ad â—ph cap. 6. S. Ambrose In â—pist ad â—phes ca. 6. S. Hierome And one yet ancienter than they both Aug. q. vet Nou. Test â—p 7. The Author of the questions of the Old and New Testament who all affirme that foure Commandements concerne our duety towards God and sixe towards men Epiphanius is reiected by D. Hardin Iewel pagâ— 548. for breaking of Images Cyprian is condemned by Dureus because he teacheth that onely Christ is to be heard Their reiection of the Fathers is so commonly knowen to all that reade Controuersies See their Iâ—dex expurgatorius as is euident by the infinite testimonies alleaged by vs out of the Fathers against the Papists that I shall not néede to insist of more particularities in which few may yet be obserued that they reiect the greater number which they tearme the Churches exposition when they make against them Stapleton and Hart. The fourth Exception is that there are many counterfeits bearing the name of Fathers which are likewise often alleaged by the Papists to abuse vs with their names For proofe wherof there be nine volumes of S. Hieroms workes whereof 3 are none of his and yet vitae Patrum a Legend how wrongfully fathered on him CoÌ„ment in epi 2. ad Tâ— mo ca. 4. lâ— cor Theolâ— li. 11. ca. 6. your Espencaeus and Canus both shew As also a barbarous and sottish fable of the natiuity of S. Mary as Canus calleth it Likewise of ten volumes of S. Austins there is not aboue one or two that hath not more or fewer of such Pamphlets patched to it both by the censure of Erasmus Censura theologoruÌ„ Louanienâ—um in AppeÌ„di c Tomâ— secundi ceteroâ—um August and the Diuines of Louain who shew that sundry things beare Saint Austines name whereof some are vnlearned some lewd and hereticall Sixtus â—eneâ—s de â—â—lcâ— librotum inscrip Stapl prinâ— doctr li. â— cap. 14. Sixtus Senensis whom D. Stapleton doeth commend hath proued that books are fathered falsely not onely vpon Augustine and Hierome but also vpon Ambrose Cyprian Athanasius Eusebius Emisenus Iunilius Cyril Eucherius Arnobius and Thomas of Aquine And with this discourse hee closeth vp the former volume of his holy Librarie In which he hath shewed Bibliotheca Sanctâ— lib. 2. 4. that Clemens Abdius Origen Chrysostome Hipolitus and many mo haue had their names defaced with the same iniurie I will omit diuers others for breuity and although this may séeme no iust Exception against the Fathers yet it ought to make vs cautious how we trust them to be the true Fathers and not counterfeits the rather for that the Papists haue often alleaged such counterfeit Fathers to credit their doctrine with For proofe whereof Torrensis the Iesuite citeth such bookes for S. Augustines as are knowen and granted to bee none of his â—n confess â—ng li. â— ca. â— Tit. 2 c. assiâ— as namely The Sermon of Saint Peters chaire and other pretie Pamphlets of the same litter And although in the preface of his confessions to the Reader he makes an exception yet our of that exception he saith that although they doe not auaile much to conuince the opinion of Sectaries Neuerthelesse there will be godly men and learned who will permit and iudge them to be Saint Augustines owne and will both take delight and profit by trading them And yet amongst theâ—e bookes there is one that teacheth contrary to Saint Augustine as namely The booke of visiting the sicke wherein the Bastard Austin alloweth the worship of images for good De visitat Infirmor li 2. ca. 1. De moribuâ— Ecclesiae ca. 3â— which â—he true Austin doth note as an abuse and saith the Church misliketh it And yet this booke alleaged by the Iesuite for worshipping of iâ—ages is set as a flower in his Austins conâ—â—tions though it be iudged a bastard Austin by the Diuines of Louain Censura Louaniensium Non est August princ doctr li. â— cap. 15. Arnob. com in psal â—â— Hier. de Scriptoriâ— eccle Biblio sanct li. 4. Histor Tâ—ip li. 5. c. 5. Coment in â—sal 105. D. Stapleton alleageth Arnobius vpon the Psalmes to prooue that who goeth out of Peters church shall perish and that this is a counterfeit Father Saint Hierome and Sixtus Senensis dot shew for that the most ancient Arnobius was elder than that he might heare of the heresie of Photinus whereas this Arnobius that writeth on the Psalmes doeth mention Photinus and wrote by name against his Heresie S. Basil is often alleaged by the Papists in many of their bookes Basil de Spir. sanct ca. 27. for Traditions not written These words are vrged as his Of the doctrines which are taught in the Church wee haue some laid down in writing some againe we haue receiued by Tradition from the Apostles in a mystery that is in secret whereof either haue like force to godlines neither doth any man contradict them that is but meanly acquainted with the lawes of the Church for if we go about to reiect those customs which are not written as of no moment before we beware we shal condemne those things which are in the Gospel necessary to saluatioÌ„ yea rather we shal bring the preaching of faith to a naked name And not long after in the same booke If nothing else hath béen receiued without scriptures Ibid. ca. 29. neither let this be receiued But if wee haue receiued many secrets without writing let vs also receiue this among those many I thinke it Apostolike to cleaue to TraditioÌ„s not written Now this booke is prooued a counterfeit by the reasons following First though it hath Saint Basils name to it Epist Eras dedicat ad Episc Culmens praefiâ—â— ca. 17. yet the later part thereof whence those patches are taken haue neither S. Basils stile learning spirit nor age which Erasmus confessed when he translated the booke Besides this place of Basils directly contradicts the two places afore mentioned of of S. Basil
sée it the Sepulchâ—e opened for his sake and the body assumpteâ— into heauen he saith not one word of these conceits Nay he rather saith against them for he noteth namely That Iames was also present the brother of the Lord and Peter the chiefest and ancientest top of the Apostles And it is not likely he would haue noted two if they had beene all present here is no lesse than seuen lies in lesse than sixe liues Now let vs sée how Damascen your Portesse agréeth For DamasceÌ„ saith The Angels sung almost thrée dayes The Portesse thrée whole dayes Damascen saith The rest of the Apostles would shew to one of them who was absent the bodie The Portesse saith Thomas who was absent would worship the bodie Now what thée Damascen was let your owne doctors tell you who except against him for his tale of Gregory the Pope â—anus locoâ—m Theol 〈◊〉 11. â— Hessels â—nsure de â—stor sanct â— 3. â—erm de funct in 〈◊〉 and Traiane the Emperour Thus Damascen reporteth That Gregorie while he went ouer the market place of Traian did pray for Traians soule to God and behold a voice from heauen I haue heard thy prayer and I pardon Traian but see thou pray no more to me for the wicked These be good places to prooue prayer for the dead and yet it is against popish doctrine that prayer can deliuer any out of hell And if he had béen in Purgatory the Pope could haue dispatched that of himselfe without praying The next is Athan in Euang. de deipara who speaks not one word of your miraculous fault And yet is the same Athanasius reiected for a bastard in your owne edition In edit Petr. Nannij Louan praefat ad episcop Atiebat The last is fiue sermons of S. Barnards in all which likewise there is not one worde of that miracle So that vnlesse they were disposed to lie for the whetstone it is to be wondred how they dare thus abuse their Readers both with the names of counterfeit Fathers and false forgeries If I should collect all such like stuffe it would growe greater than this smal Tract But let the Christian Reader iudge of the rest as hee prooues these to be truly brought against them And if any desire further proofe of the Rhemists sincerity in alleaging Fathers let him obserue these places viz. The constitutions of Clement Luk. 4. Sect. 1. Ignatius Matt. 4. Sect. 2. 1. Peter 2. Sect. 6 Dionysius Areopag Act. 8. Sect. 6. Hypolitus Mat. 24. Sect. 5. Policarpus Act. 6. Sect. 1. Miltiadi Fabian Act. 8. Sect. 6. S. Andrew S. Martiall Hebr. 10. Sect. 11. The Masses of S. Iames Basil and Chrysostome 1. Cor. 11. Sect. 10. Clicton for Ciuil Ioh. 11. Sect. 1. and Paulinus Ioh. 9. Sect. 2. All these are counterfeit Fathers and vrged by the Papists vnder the names of true Fathers to countenance their corrupt doctrine And therefore no maruell if popish leaders instruct their followers to get vs into the plaine field of their Motiues out of our weake and false castell of onely Scripture as Bristowe the Licentiate tearmeth it Brist Motiu 48. And it is no maruell that they haue such store of the Fathers and that our new masters as they tearme vs cannot compare with these Fathers in the doctrines they deliuer when they bring vs onely the names of fathers I could giue instance likewise how the Fathers are often contrary one to another yea contrary to themselues Thus I hope it is plainly prooued by these foure iust exceptions that the Fathers iudgements are no infallible rule for a man to build his faith on though it be imbellisht with the churches exposition And yet wee reuerence and honor them as men that haue brought great light to the vnderstanding of the Scriptures But what doâ— you vnderstand by intituling the ancient Fathers with the name of the church Papist I meane Harâ—â—g Rai that the ioint consent of the Fathers in all doctrines deliuered by them is the doctrine of the Church Protestant 15 What doe you meane by the ioint consent of the Fathers Papist I mean by the ioint consent of the Fathers that which all or the most part of them doe deliuer for trueth wherin if there be any difference the greater number is to be followed for a fewe may bee deceiued more easily than many Protestant 16 This rule séemes to be very vncertaine for you knowe that king Ahab was deceiued by the consent of false prophets 2. Chron. 1â— 5 11. euen 400. against Micaiah yea when the Fathers in the great Councel of Nice were about to decrée that Bishops Priests DeacoÌ„s should not vse their wiues Paphnutius alone Sozom. li. 1. cap. 2â— rose vp in the midst of their Councell and fréely contradicted it and preuailed Besides in the third Exception before it is plainely shewed that the greater number of Fathers are by your selues reiected in the diuision of the coÌ„mandements and in the controuersie betwéene S. Austine and Hierom touching Peters reproofe par 1. wherein your selues grant Torrensis confes Aug. lib. 2. cap. 1. tim â— that Austin iudged more soundly What is therefore then to be done that a certaine and sure ground may bee found out Papist Then a better and more sure way is that which by the faithfull Pastors of the Church is decreed in a generall Councell which cannot erre Protestant 17 Indéed I must confesse it is a sure way to build our faith vpon those Councels which cannot erre But how shal we be assured that they cannot erre Papist We are assured by the Scriptures That the Church cannot erre as is euident by these places following Mat. 18.20 Our Sauiour Christ saith That when two or three are gathered together in his name that he will be in the midst And Ioh. 16 13. he promiseth to send vnto his Church the holy Ghost which shall leade them into all trueth 1. Tim. 3. And S. Paul calles it the Pillar and ground of trueth Vpon which places and many other which for breuity I omit wee conclude that the Church cannot erre which to speake as the Schoolemen doe we call the Church representatiue because the whole Church is there represented in a gerall Councell Protestant 18 Take héede what you doe Will you bring the Church contrary to the iudgement of many learned Papists mentioned in the preface of this booke to take her authority from the Scriptures and to be tried by them whether it may erre If you doe it will be the vtter ruine and destruction of your Religion for the Scriptures will conuince the Councel of Constance of error in taking away the cup from the Laitie contrary to S. Pauls expresse commandement saying 1. Cor. 11. Let a man examine himselfe and so let him eate of this bread and drinke of this cup. And contrary to the Institution and commaundement of Christ himselfe saying Drinke you all of this Mat. 26.27
the ordainings of Formosus ought to be void And this * Pag 42. 7 Concil Rauen An. Do 898. Sigon de Reg. Itaâ— li. 6. Master Hart against Doctor Raynolds confesseth to be an error in faith And Iohn the ninth in the Councel of Rauenna condemned Stephen and his Councell and therein their new ordainings are forbidden and matched with new Baptizings Pope Coelestine the third did set forth a decrée that when of married persons one falleth into heresie the marriage is dissolued and the Catholike partie is free to marrie againe Mat. 19.9 flat against the Scriptures And Alfonsus Alfon. à Castro aduer Haeres li. 1. ca. 4. a famous patron of the Papacie doeth shewe that he defined it For that Pope Coelestine did erre saith Alfonsus about the marriage of the faithfull of whome one falleth into Heresie It is manifest to all men Neither was this errour of Coelestine such as ought to bee imputed to negligence alone That wee may say he erred as a priuate man and not as a Pope who in defining of any serious matter should aske counsel of learned men For this definition of Coelestine was extant in the olde Decretals which I my selfe haue séene and read Super quart decretal c. quanto de â—iuortijs â— IdeÌ„ siquidem de coÌ„â—ers infid c. audabilem Gratia dist 9. c. in â—omi § â—drian in 4 â—ent de conâ—irma ca. vlt. Gerson Almain Paâ—isieÌ„ses Theâ—logi Decret li 4. â—e diuort â—uanto â— Ibid. praedecessor Decretal li. â— de deâ—oÌ„sa duoruÌ„ 〈◊〉 licet praeter And this is confirmed by Cardinal Hostiensis who noteth the very paragraph of the Chapter in the which it was and speaketh of it as a Decretall And that the Pope may erre in iudgement of faith Gratian Adrian Gerson and Almaine the Diuines of Paris affirme Innocentius the third when he decided the cause confessed that one of his predecessors had decréed otherwise which saith the Gloze was Coelestinus whose resolution was in the old Decretals and it was euill that Coelestinus sayd Alexander the third in a matter of great importance sayd Quamuis aliter à quibusdam praedecessoribus nostris sit aliquando iudicatum Though some of our predecessors haue heretofore otherwise giuen iudgement And if you obiect for you will euer find some shift that these were matters of mariage and not of faith as though the seuering of those whome God hath ioyned did not touch the faith â—e conse â—istin 2. Ego Beren Nicolaus the second in a Councell of 114. Bishops appointed Berengarius to confesse That the very body of Christ is in trueth and sensually broken and bruised in pieces with the téeth of the faithfull And this confession the Pope receiued allowed and sent to the Bishops of Italy Germany and France as Catholike which your owne Gloze saith Ibid. c. dentibus is a greater heresie than euer Berengarius held vnlesse you vnderstand this of the outwarde formes of Bread and Wine and not of the body of Christ Honorius the Pope did hold and teach the Monothelites heresie 1. Tim. 3 16 Luk. 22.42 who whereas Christ is made our Sauiour and Redéemer by that he doeth consist of two natures God and man and as of two natures so of two willes agréeable to the natures they say that Christ hath but one will onely and by consequent but one nature The sixt general Councel hath handled the cause of the Monotholite heretikes in 18. actions as they are tearmed In the first action the 8. and the 11. the heretikes alleage in their owne defence that Pope Honorius taught as they do In the 12. 13. his writings are examined his heresie discouered himselfe condemned and cursed In the 16. 17 18. Honor. haâ—retico Anthema the sentence which was giuen against him and the curse are repeated often againe and againe with acclamation of the Councel yea the principal point of his Decrées Vid Raynâ— ver Hart â— diu 2. pag 293. set forth to teach the Church was the Monothelites heresie this is confirmed by chiefe Papists Abbas Vrsâ—erg Ann. 1080. â—aâ—ciculus â—er sciendar â—n vita â—est Hildeâ—randi Pope Gregory the 7. was condemned by the Bishops of France and Germany as the ancient disciple of the Heretike Berengarius and swaruing from the true faith And in speciall words This is Hildebrands Decree in which hee erred from the Catholike doctrine and faith Now let the indifferent Reader iudge betwéene you and vs whether the Pope be a competent iudge But how may it appeare that to him is committed so great a charge and that his sentence is so absolute that all authorities of Scripture Fathers and Councels must submit themselues to his Censure Papist The absolute authority of his Holinesse is prooued by many places of Scripture as Thou art Peter Mat. 16.18 and vpon this Rocke will I build my Church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it â—uk 22.32 and I haue prayed for thee Peter that thy faith faile not and Thou being conuerted strengthen thy brethren and Feede my sheepe â—oh 21.17 Feede my lambes And many other places of Scriptures Fathers and Councels doe conferre this speciall priuiledge vpon Peter and Peters Successours By which means all Controuersies whatsoeuer may be determined Protestant This is strange Diuinitie and stranger Logicke Christ sayd Thou art Peter vpon this Rocke will I build my Church Ergo the Church is builded onely vpon Peter and the Pope The gates of hell shall neuer preuaile against the Church Ergo Peter and the Pope are the Church against which the gates of hell shall not preuaile I haue prayed for thée Peter that thy faith faile not Ergo whatsoeuer is determined by the Pope is not subiect to error And Christ sayd to Peter Feede my shéepe Ergo hée made him supreame head of the Apostles Or thus Christ did charge Peter to féede his shéepe But the Apostles were shéepe of Christ Ergo hee had the charge of féeding them also and so had absolute authority Nowe to make you sée the folly of this manner of reasoning obserue this argument and you shall by that meanes easily discerne the weakenesse of your owne reason Christ did charge his Apostles to preach the Gospel to euery creature But Peter was a creature Ergo they had charge of preaching to him also And this must néedes ouersway your reason if a man would play with words For Christ said not to Peter féede al my sheep but he said to the Apostles preach to euery creature And if these consequents bée good then is it an easie and a safe way to decide all differences and wee might well haue spared all these paines for it will necessarily follow that if the Pope cannot erre in any point of doctrine or discipline of the Church then the Scriptures Fathers Councels are superfluous Act. 15. Neither is that Gloze to any purpose that the Rhemists
not all that which goeth before and followeth after as spoken to Peter be common to them all The next place is I haue prayed for thee Peter c. What then shall wee conclude hereof that Peter and his successours cannot fayle in any point of faith wherein they giue definitiue sentence and that the Pope cannot erre iudicially No but hereby is meant a liuely Christian faith which is not our priuate exposition as they commonly obiect against vs but the iudgement of Austin Aug. de correp gratia ca. 8. Chrys Hom. 83. in Mat. 72. in Iohn Prosper de vocatione gent. c. 24. Theoph. in Luk. 22. Chrysostome Prosper and Theophilact who all doe vnderstand by faith in that place a liuely Christian faith and say That Christ prayed that Peter might continue therein to the end which grace neither they nor any Father sayth that all the Popes haue Nay your Doctors Turrec in sum de eccle ca. 12. Can. locor Theo. li. 6. cap. 1. Bellar. cont 4 par 2. q. 1. In annot Luk. 22. Bed in Gal. 2 Theophil in Luc. 23. Chrysost in Mat. Ho. 83. Turrecremata Canus Bellarmine and your Rhemists confesse the contrary As I saith Bede speaking in the person of Christ haue by prayers protected thy faith lest by temptation of Satan it should haue failed so thou also remember to lift vp and cōfort thy weake brethren by example of thy repentance lest peraduenture they should despaire of pardon And our Sauiour Christ did by these wordes put him in mind of his fall to coole the heate of pride and vainglory if I may so say with Theophilact and Chrysostome Fulk in Rhem. Test in Luk 22. Sectin And S. Basil citeth this text to prooue that we ought to pray for them that are sought in tēptations In these words you sée are taught the duety of Peter of euery Christian man in the like case no prerogatiue either for Peter or his successors And vpon that place Feed my sheepe the Fathers build no prerogatiue of Peter but rather do interpret it of his loue duty as S. Augustine Aug. 123. in Ioh Tract Cyril li. 12. ca. 46. in Ioh. Chrysost in Ioh. Ho. 87. Cyril and Chrysostome doe expound the place where to a thréefold denial is rendred a thréefold confession lest his tongue should be lesse seruiceable to loue than it was to feare And there is a reason giuen according to the Scripture why Peter should loue more because he had offended more for to whō more is remitted he ought to loue more as Cyril saith So that out of the iudgement of these Fathers Peters offence to be greater than the rest may better be proued than any prerogatiue to Peter or the Pope Fulk in Rhe. Test in Ioh. 21 sect 4. sée their testimonies more largely set downe by D. Fulke against the Rhemists yea this point is so cléere that it is confirmed by the testimonie of chiefe and learned Papists themselues Alfonsus saith Alfons li. 1. ca. 4 caus 24. q. Euery man may erre in faith euen the Pope himselfe and the same is confessed by the best of your side both Canonists and Diuines De Flect C. Significast Panormitane saith A Councel may condemne the Pope of Heresie as appeareth in in the 40. dist ca. Si Papa where it is saide That the Pope may be an Heretike and iudged of Heresie Alfonsus saith The Pope may erre in faith Alfons li. 1. cap. 7. as the truer opinion is euen of them that fauour the Popedome verie much Amonge whome is Innocentius the 4. of that name Bishop of Rome writing vpon the first Chapter de trinitate Arboreus Theosoph li. 4 cap. 32. a Doctor of Paris one of your chiefe Sorbonistes saith The Pope may erre in faith And he seemeth to me to be in foule Error that thinketh otherwise Surely they but flatter the Bishoppe of Rome that make him free from falling into Heresie and Schisme Gerson the Chancellor of Paris saith The Pope may swarue from the faith Gerson in Tract An liceat in causa fidei à pontifice appellare Panor apud Syl. de fide § 9. Syluest de ecclesi § 4. as well as an other Bishop Panormitan sayth Thus must the Gloze be vnderstood which sayth that the Church cannot erre is not the Pope but the congregation of the faithfull that is such as holde firmely that doctrine which S. Peter with other people taught And the Popes owne Gloze vpon his Decrées doth describe the Church which cannot erre Can. 14. q. 1 Can. A recta in gloss to be the Congregation of the faithfull saying I aske thee O Pope Lucie of what Church thou vnderstādest that which thou tellest vs in this place to wit That the Church cannot erre for if thou vnderstandest it of the Pope himselfe it is very certaine that the Pope may erre I answere therefore that the Church is here taken for the congregation of the faithfull and such a Church cannot erre Lyrain Mat. ca. 6. Lyra sayth Many Popes haue proued Apostates But what néede I to descend to particulars to prooue that the Pope may not only erre in doctrine but also be an heretike since it is a ruled case by your Schoolemen and Canonistes As a in dial p. 1. li. 6. ca. 1. Occam b In summa lib 5. Tit. de Haeret. Hostiensis c Summa de eccles li. 2. ca 93. 112. Turrrecremata d De Schismat pont Zabarella e De concord Catho li. 2. cap. 17. Cusanus f Summa part 3 Tit. 22 cap. 7. Antoninus g Aduers Haer. li. 1. ca. 2 4. Alfonsus h Locor Theol. lib. 6 cap 8 Canus i De visib Monar li 7. Sanders k Contro 4. p 2. qu. 1. Bellarmine l Canonist in distinct 40 si Papa Archid. Iohan. Andrae in fidei de Haereticis in Sext. Caietan de authoritat Pap. Conc. cap. 20. 23. and others m Dist 40. si Pa yea the Canon lawe it selfe n Synod Roma quint. sub Symacho Math. Paris in Henrico 3. sub Anno 1253. Mathaei Chroni in An. 1409. yea A Councel a Romane Councell confirmed by the Pope doe graunt it But to conclude this point wherein it may séeme I haue béen too tedious Sixe hundred prelates 124. Diuines and almost thrée hundred Lawyers with the whole Colledge of Cardinals in your generall Councell of Pisa deposed two Popes Gregory the 12. and Benedict the 13. o Naucler Chronogr genera 47. Anno 1409. as Schismatikes and Heretikes Your Councel of Constance whereas you say were p Genebrard li 2. Chronograph Anno 1414. 4. Patriarches 29. Cardinals 47. Archbishops 270. Bishops 564. Abbots and Doctors in all aboue 900. deposed the same Benedict persisting in his Popedome notwithstanding the former sentence as being Schismaticum Haereticum c. A Schismatike Conc.
Christ hauing neuer béene prohibited as vnlawfull vntill the Councell of Constance which was 1400. yéeres after Christ But Controuersies may be ended and heresies abolished either by conuincing those out of the Scriptures that maintaine them as diuers heretikes were before either Pope or Councell were thought of Or by the authoritie of the Magistrate commanding for trueth and inioining their silence and obedience â— Chro. 14. â— 3 4 5. according to the examples of Asa the King of Iudah who commanded his people to doe according to the Law â— Chro. 29. c. And Ezechiah who restored the worship of God and diuers other Kings in the old Testament 2. Chro. 17 ver 3 4 5 8. ca. 19 ver 4 8 9 10 11 c 33. v. 11 12 13 15. câ— 34. v. 3 4 7 29.30 3â— 32 33. câ— 35. v. 1 2 3 4.5 6. as Iehoshaphat Manasses Iosiah and others yea Salomon did dedicate the Temple in his owne person and * 1. King 8. ca. 2. v. 3 cast out Abiathar from being Priest vnto the Lord and placed Zadok in his roume And Saint Austine in many places sheweth Kings are charged with Gods Law in respect of commanding it to others In the times of the Prophets saith he All the Kings which in the people of God did not forbid and ouerthrowe those things Aug. Epi. 5 which were brought in against the commandements of God are blamed and they that did prohibit and subuert such things are praised aboue the rest And for that part of the obiection that wee leaue euery man to his priuate exposition which though therein wee are wrongfully charged by our aduersaries yet the trueth is we challenge not to our selues as the Papists do the true interpretation of the Scriptures as if they were appropriated vnto vs But we submit our selues and our interpretations whatsoeuer according to the Generall and receiued doctrine of the Fathers in that point to be compared and tried by the Scriptures Or to auoide your cauelling if you will to the Church which are men speaking by the Scriptures Neither is this part of the obiection of so great weight or consequence as it may séeme at the first blush For most of the differences betwéene vs and the Papists are not touching the sense of the Scripture séeing it is confessed by learned Papists as I haue prooued in the preface of this booke that most of the doctrines wherein they vary from vs are grounded on Tradition And all men of reason know that where ther is no Text there néedes no Interpreter All the danger therefore lieth in the last part of the obiection when mens corrupt affections may take those things for trueth which are not and reiect those which are a thing impossible to bee preuented since euery man vnderstands according to the capacitie and conceite whereof himselfe is And herein likewise is the doctrine of Christ verefied as Saint Paul sayth 2. Cor. 4.3 If our Gospell bee hidde it is hidde to them that are lost For no man can come vnto mee sayth Christ except the Father which haue sent me drawe him Iohn 6.44 1. Cor. 3.4 6 Yea Paul may plant and Apollo may water but God must giue the increase For though the Sunne bée of most excellent brightnesse yet none can sée it but those which haue eyes euen so is it of the Scriptures which as Saint Peter sayth They that are vnlearned and vnstable 2. Pet. 3.16 doe peruert to their own damnation But shal we leaue the Triall of the Scriptures to which all the Fathers referre vs either because many peruert them or for that the diuel alleaged them or for that it is common to all Heretikes to make challenge and boast of them No for all Heretikes haue béen by the Scriptures rightly vnderstood confuted and confounded yea euen the deuill himselfe Mat. 3.7 as Christs owne example teacheth vs was conuicted by the same weapon wherewith hee thought to haue vanquished our Sauiour But to make this plaine by example what Lawyer will offer to defend a badde cause but hee will bring Lawe for his purpose and shall this debarre or preiudice the other that pleades against him That hée shall not by Lawe conuince the Errours and Sophistries or Quirkes and Quiddities which are brought against him Nay rather anie man of iudgement hauing heard both parties will readily distinguish and say The one makes a a shewe of Lawe but the other hath Lawe indeede And euen thus it rests in those controuersies that are betweene vs and the Papists touching the Sense of the Scripture onely and not for those differences which the maintaine by Tradition Petr. â— Soto adu Brent Canisi in catechi ca. 5. Lindan in pan li. 4. ca. 100. Peresius par 3. Rhe. Test Gal. 2. sect 4 which by the iudgement of their owne men as I haue already shewed are the greater number And albeit the Rhemists would insinuate That the controuersies betweene vs are whether the Iudge or the Euidence bee of greater authority yet that shift will not serue them for all men of iudgement knowe that that is not the question betwéene vs. But the difference is whether the Iudge or the Law bee of greater authoritie where euery wise man will graunt the Lawe to be supreame whereunto the Iudge is to obey and according to which to giue his sentence or else by the Lawe his erronious iudgement is to be reuersed Neither is there other Iudiciall authority in the Church than in the common wealth which is to determine controuersies according to the Lawe and the true meaning thereof And if there be question of the Sense of the Law The Lawmakers minde is to be discussed by his wordes and the circumstances and occasions of making the Lawe And euen so the meaning of the Scripture is to be taken onely out of the Scripture as Clemens saith â—iâ— 37. ca. â—elatum You ought not to seeke a strange and forraine sense without the Scriptures that you may confirme it by any means by the Scriptures But sense of trueth you must take out of the Scriptures themselues Saint Augustine * Confess Aug. praef ad lecto whose doctrine your selues doe acknowledge to be grounded on the lawes the maners the iudgements of all the Catholike Church whom you call a witnesse of the sincere trueth and Catholike Religion such a witnesse as no exception can be made against who assureth you as you say not onely of his owne but also of the common the constant faith and confession of the ancient Fathers and the Apostolike Church This Augustine hath written foure bookes of Christian doctrine wherein he purposely intreateth howe men should vnderstand the Scripture and expound it The summe of all his Treatise doeth aime at this marke That a Aug. de doct Christ li. 1. ca. 2. the meaning of the Scripture must bee learned out of the Scripture by the consideration of things