Protestants Church not the true Church Againe by that saying Haereses ad originem reuocasse est refutasse and so considering Luthers first rancour against the Dominicans his disobedience and contempt of his former Superiours his vowe breaking and violent courses euen causing rebellion against the Emperour whom he reuiles and other Princes most shamefully surely such arrogant disobedience scisme and rebellions had no warrant nor vocation of God to plant his Church but of the Deuill to begin a scisme and a sect So likewise for Caluin to say nothing of all that D. Bolsecus brings against him I doe vrge onely what Master Hooker Doctor Bancroft and Sarauia doe proue against him for his vnquietnesse and ambition reuoluing the Common-wealth and so vniuâ—tly expelling and depriuing the Bishop of Geneua and other temporall Lords of their due obedience and ancient inheritance Moreouer I referre you to the stirres broiles sedition and murders which Knoxe and the Geneua Gospellers caused in Scotland against their lawfull Gouernours against their Queene and against our King euen in his Mothers belly Nor will I insist vpon the passions which first moued King Henrie violently to diuorce himselfe from his lawfull wife to fall out with the Pope his friend to marrie the Lady Anne Bullen and soone after to behead her to disinherite Queene Mary and enable Queene Elizabeth and presently to diâ—inherit Queene Elizabeth and to restore Queene Mary to hang Catholiques for traitors and to burne Protestants for heretiques to destroy Monasteries and to pill Churches were these fit beginnings for the Gospell of Christ I pray was this man a good head of Gods Church for my part I beseech our Lord blesse me from being a member of such a head or such a Church I come to France and Holland where you know by the Hugenots and Geuses all Caluinistes what ciuill wars they haue raised how much bloud they haue shed what rebellion rapine and desolations they haue occasioned principally for their new Religion founded in bloud like Draecos lawes But I would gladly know whether you can approue such bloudy broiles for Religion or no I know Protestants de facto doe iustifie the ciuill warres of France and Holland for good against their Kings but I could neuer vnderstand of them quo lure if the Hollanders be Rebels as they are why did we support themâ— if they be no rebels because they fight for the pretended liberty of their ancient priuiledges and for their new Religion we see it is an easie matter to pretend liberties and also why may not others as as well reuolt for their old Religion Or I beseech you why is that accounted treason against the State in Catholiques which is called reason of State in Protestants I reduce this argument to few words That Church which is founded and begun in maâ—ice disobedience passion bloud and rebellion cannot be the true Church but it is euident to the world that the Protestant Churches in Germanie Francâ— Holland Geneua c. were so founded and in Geneua and Holland are still continued in rebellion ergo they are not true Churches Furthermore where is not Succession both of true Pastors and of true Doctrine there is no true Church But among Protestants is no succession of true Pastors for I omit here to treate of Doctrine ergo no true Church I prooue the minor where is no consecration nor ordination of Bishops and Priests according to the due forme and right intention required necessarily by the Church and ancient Councels there is no succession of true Pastors but among Protestants the said due forme and right intention are not obserued ergo no succession of true Pastors The said due forme and right intention are not obserued among Protestants in France Holland nor Germanie where they haue no Bishops and where Lay men doe intermeddle in the making of their Ministers And for England whereas the Councels require the ordines minores of Subdeacon and the rest to goe before Priesthood your Ministers are made per saltum without euer being Subdeacons And whereas the Councels require three Bishops to assist at the consecration of a Bishop it is certaine that at the Nags-head in Cheap-side where consecration of your first Bishops was attempted but not effected whereabout I remember the controuersie you had with one there was but one Bishop and I am sure there was such a matter and although I know and haue seene the Records themselues that afterward there was a consecration of Doctor Parker at Lambeth and three Bishops named viz. Miles Couerdall of Exceter one Hodgeskin Suffragan of Bedford and another whose name I haue forgotten yet it is very doubtfull that Couerdall being made Bishop of Exceter in King Edwards time when all Councels and Church Canons were little obserued he was neuer himselfe Canonically consecrated and so if he were no Canonicall Bishop he could not make another Canonicall and the third vnnamed as I remember but am not sure was onely a Bishop Elect and not consecrated and so was not sufficient But hereof I am sure that they did consecrate Parker by vertue of a Breue from the Queene as Head of the Church who indeed being no true Head and a Woman I cannot see how they could make a true consecration grounded on her authoritie Furthermore making your Ministers you keepe not the right intention for neither doe the Orderer nor the Ordered giue nor receiue the Orders as a Sacrament nor with any intention of Sacrificing Also they want the matter and forme with which according to the Councels and Canons of the Church holy Orders should be giuen namely for the matter Priesthood is giuen by the deliuerie of the Patena with bread and of the Chalice with wine Deaconship by the deliuerie of the booke of the Gospels and Subdeaconship by the deliuerie of the Patena alone and of the Chaliâ—e emptie And in the substantiall forme of Priesthood you doe faile most of all which forme consists in these wordes Accipe potestatem offerendi sacrificium in Ecclesia pro viuis mortuis which are neither said noâ— done by you and therefore well may you bee called Ministers as also Lay men are but you are no Priests Wherefore I conclude wanting Subdeaconship wanting vndoubted Canonicall Bishops wanting right intention wanting matter and due forme and deriuing euen that you seeme to haue from a Woman the Head of your Church therefore you haue no true Pastors and consequently no true Church And so to conclude and not to wearie my selfe and you too much being resolued in my vnderstanding by these and many other Arguments that the Church of England was not the true Church but that the Church of Rome was and is the onely true Church because it alone is Ancient Catholique and Apostolique hauing Succession Vnitie and Visibilitie in all ages and places yet what agonies I passed with my will here I will ouer-passe Onely I cannot pretermit to tell you that at last hauing also mastered and
insist for the present but admitting it as true that wickednesse of mens persons doth not impeach the holinesse of their functions which they haue receiued of God nor make Gods ordinances as his Word and Sacraments of none effect But tell me for Gods loue Master Waddesworth is it likely that this Monarchie thus sought thus gotten thus kept thus exercised is of God Are these men that wholly forsaking the feeding of the flocke of God dreame of nothing now but Crowns and Scepterâ— serue to the Church to no vse in the world vnlesse it be to breake the ancient Canons and oppresse with their power all that shall but vtter a free word against their ambition and tyrannie are they I will not say with you good heads of Gods Church but members of it and not rather limbes of Satan Consider those Texts My Kingdome is not of this world Vos autem non sic Consider the charge which Saint Peter giues to his fellow Presbyters 1. Pet. 5. 2 3 4. Now I beseech our Lord deliuer his Church from this tyrannie and blesse you from being a member of such a Head CHAP. XI Of lacke of succession Bishops true Ordinations Ordâ—rs Priesthood I Come now to your motiue from succession Where I maruell first that leauing the succession of Doctrine which is farre more proper and intrinsecall to the Churches being you stand vpon that of Persons and Offices Yea and about them too immediately passe from that which is of Essence to the externall formalities in consecration and ordination according to the ancient Councels Haue you forgotten what you said right now that matters of ceremonie and gouernment are changeable Yea but in France Holland and Germanie they haue no Bishops First what if I should defend they haue because a Bishop and a Presbyter are all one as Saint Ierome maintaines and prooues out of holy Scripture and the vse of Antiquitie Of which iudgement as Medina confesseth are sundrie of the ancient Fathers both Greeke and Latineâ— Saint Ambrose Augustine Seduliuâ— Primasius Chrysostome Theodorit Oecumenius and Theophylact which point I haue largely treated of in another place against him that vndertooke Master Alablasters quarrell Besides those Churches in Germanie haue those whom they call Superintendents and generall Superintendents as out of Doctor Bancroft by the testimonie of Zanchius and sundrie Germane Diuines you might perceiue Yea and where these are not as in Geneua and the French Churches yet there are saith Zanchius â—sually certaine chiefe men that doe in a manner beare all the sway as if order it selfe and necessitie led them to this course And what are these but Bishops indeede vnlesse wee shall wrangle about names which for reason of State those Churches were to abstaine from As for that you say Lay men intermedâ—le there with the making of their Ministers if you meane the election of them they haue reason for anciently the people had alwayes a right therein as Saint Cyprian writes to the Churches of Leon and Astorga there in Spaine Plebs ipsa maxime habet potestatem vel eligendi dignos Sacerdotes vel indignos recusandi and in sundrie places of Italie this vsage doth continue to this day If yee meane it in Ordination yee are deceiued and wrong these Churches as Bellarmine himselfe will teach you lib. De Clâ—ricis cap. 3. For amongst the Lutherans and Caluinists also saith hee which haue taken away almost all Ecclesiasticall rites they onely lay on hands and make Pastors and Ministers who though they be not Pastors and Bishops indeede would be so accounted and called In England you misse first the lesser orders and say we are made Ministers per saltum as if all that are made Priests among you were Psalmists Sextens Readers Exâ—rcists Torch-bearers Subdeacons and Deacons before Remember I pray what the Master of the Sentences saith of Deaconship and Priesthood Hos solos primitiuâ— Ecclesia legitur habuisse de his solis praeceptum Apostoli habemus Hee meanes in the Epistles to Tâ—â—othy and Titus Againe Subdiaeonos vere Acolythos precedeâ—te tempore Ecclesia sibi constituit What and were the Primitiue and Apostolike Churches no true Churches or neede wee to bee ashamed to bee like them Besides those Councels that yee speake of it should seeme were of no great either antiquitie or authoritie when not onely Presbyters without passing through any order but Bishops without being so much as baptized were ordayned As Nectarius of Constantinople Synesius of Cyrene Ambrose of Millaine Constantine II. of Rome it selfe This therefore is a very sleight exception Your next is well worse touching the Ordination at the Nags-head where the Consecration of our first Bishops as you say was attempted but not effected It is certaine you say and you are sure there was such a matter although you know and haue seene the records themselues that afterward there was a Consecration of Doctor Parker at Lambeth Alas Master Wadesworth if you bee resolued to beleeue lies not onely against publike Acts and your owne eye-sight but against all probabilitie who can helpe it I had well hoped to haue found that ingenuitie in you that I might haue vsed your testimony vnto others of that side touching the vanitie of this fable as hauing shewed you the Copie of the record of Doctor Parkers consecration which I had procured to bee transcribed out of the Acts which your selfe also at your returne from London told mee you saw in a blacke Booke Now I perceiue by your perplexed writing and enterlining in this part of your Letter you would faine discharge your conscience and yet vphold this lie perhaps as loth to offend that side where you now are and therefore you haue deuised this temper that the one was attempted the other effected But it will not bee For first of all if that at the Nags-head were but attempted what is that to the purpose of our Ordinations which are not deriued from it but from the other which as you say was effected at Lambeth And are you sure there was such a matter How are you sure Were you present there in person or haue you heard it of those that were present Neither of both I suppose but if it were so that some bodie pretending to haue beene there present told you so much how are you sure that hee lied not in saying so much more when you haue it but at the third or fourth hand perhaps the thirtieth or fortieth But consider a little is it probable that men of that sort in an action of that importance and at the beginning of the Queenes reigne when especially it concerned both them and her to prouide that all things should bee done with reputation would bee so hastie and heedlesse as to take a Tauerne for a Church Why might they not haue gone to the next Church as well They thought to make the old Catholike Bishop drunken Thus the Wisbich and Framyngham Priests were wont to tell the tale Is it likely that
whose words are these I will not determine against the succession of the Clergie in England because it is to mee very doubtfull And the discretion of Cudsemius the Iesuire which denies the English Nation to be Heretickes because they remaine in a perpetuall succession of Bishops And to take away all doubt from you that some of these Ordayners were onely Bishops elect and vnconsecrated besides Miles Couerdale in King Edwards time Bishop of Exceter cast in prison by Queene Mary and released and sent ouer Sea to the King of Denmarke know that William Barlow was another in King Edwards dayes Bishop of Bath and Welles in Queene Maries beyond the Seas in the companie of the Duchesse of Suffolke and Master Bâ—rtie her husband at the time of Doctor Parkers ordination Elect of Chichester A third was Iohn Scorie in King Edwards time Bishop of Chichester and at the time of the said ordination Elect of Hereford A fourth was Iohn Hodgeskin Suffragan of Bedford And these foure if they were all ordained according to the forme ratified in King Edwards dayes were presented by two Bishops at least to the Archbishop and of him and them receiued imposition of hands as in the said forme is appointed One scruple yet remaines which you haue in that these men did consecrate Doctor Parker by vertue of a Breue from the Queene as head of the Church who being no true head and a woman you see not how they could make a true consecrationr grounded on her authoritie But to cleare you in this also you must vnderstand the Queenes mandate serued not to giue power to ordaine which those Bishops had before inâ—rinsecally annexed to their office but leaue and warrant to apply that power to the person named in that Mandate A thing vnlesse I haue beene deceiued by reports vsed in other Countries yea in the Kingdomes of his Catholike Maiestie himselfe Sure I am by the Christian Emperours in the primitiue Church as you may see in the Ecclesiasticall histories and namely in the ordination of Nectarius that I spake of before Yea which is more in the consecration of the Bishops of Rome as of Leo VIII whose Decree with the Synode at Rome touching this matter is set downe by Gratian Dist. 63. c. 23. taken from the example of Hadriaâ— and another Councell which gaue to Charles the Great Ius potestatem eligendi Pontificem ordinandi Apostolicam sedom as you may see in the Chapter next before See the same Dist. c. 16. 17. 18. and you shall finde that when one was chosen Bishop of Reate within the Popes owne Prouince by the Clergie and people and sent to him by Guido the Count to be consecrated the Pope durst not doe it till the Emperours licence were obtained Yea that hee writes to the Emperour for Colonus that receiuing his licence hee might consecrate him either there or in the Church of Tusculum which accordingly vpon the Emperors bidding he performed Yet another exception you take to the making our Ministers that wee keepe not the right intention First because we neither giue nor take Orders as a Sacrament By that reason we should haue no true marriages amongst vs neither because we count not Matrimonie a Sacrament This Controuersie depends vpon the definition of a Sacrament which if it be put to be a signe of a holy thing these be both so and a many more then seuen If a seale of the New Testament so are there but those two which we properly call Sacraments Baptisme and the Lords Supper In which last as to the intention of sacrificing surely if yee allow the doctrine of the Master of the Sentences that it is called a Sacrifice and Oblation which is offered and consecrated by the Priest because it is a memorie and representation of the true Sacrifice and holy immolation made on the Altar of the Crosse. And that Christ once dyed on the Crosse and there was offered vp in himselfe but is daily offered vp in a Sacrament because in the Sacrament there is a remembrance of that which waâ— once done which he there confirmes by the authorities of the Fathers cited by Gratian in the Canon Law If this Doctrine I say may yet passe for good and this bee the Churches intention wee want not this intention of sacrificing Adde to this the confession of Melchior Canus who saith the Lutherans doe not wholly denie the sacrifice but grant a Sacrifice of thanks giuing which they call the Eucharist they will haue none for sinne which they call propitiatorie If he had put hereto vnlesse it bee in a mysterie hee had rightly expressed the opinion of the Protestants Thirdly yee object wee want the matter and forme with which orders should be giuen namely for the matter in Priesthood the deliuerie of the Patena with bread and the Chalice with wine in Deaconship the deliuerie of the booke of the Gospell c. By which reason the seuen first Deacons had no true ordination for then there was no Gospell written to be deliuered them Nor those Priests whom the Pope shall make by his sole word saying Esto Sacerdos Whom notwithstanding sundrie famous Canonists hold to bee well and lawfully ordained and Innocentius himselfe saith that if these formes of Ordination were not found out any other Ordainer might in like manner make Priests with those words or the like for as much as these formes were in processe of time appointed by the Church And if wee list to seeke for these Metaphysicall notions of matter and forme in Ordination which at the most can bee but by Analogie how much better might wee assigne the persons deputed to sacred functions to be the matter as those that contract are by your selues made the matter in matrimonie and the imposing of hands with the expressing the authoritie and office giuen to bee the forme In Dionysius though falsly called the Areopagite yet an ancient Author yee shall finde nothing else nor which I may tell you by the way any other orders saue Bishops Priests and Deacons And to come to that wherein you say wee faile most of all the substantiall forme of Priesthood tell mee ingenuously good Master Wadesworth how doe you know that our Lord Iesus Christ made his Apostles or they others Priests with this forme which hath no mention or footstep in the Gospell or otherwhere in holy Scripture Nor so much as in the Councell of Carthage that from whence the manner of giuing other orders is fetched nor in Gratian nor in any other ancient Author that I can finde saue in the Pontificall onely And is the present Pontificall of such authoritie with you as the forme of Priesthood the substantiall forme can subsist in no other wordes then those that bee there expressed To omit the late turkesing whereof consider what Augustinus Patritius writes in his Preface before that which at Pope Innocent VIII his commandement he patched together That
THE COPIES OF CERTAINE LETTERS WHICH HAVE passed betweene SPAINE and ENGLAND in matter of RELIGION Concerning the generall Motiues to the Romane obedience Betweene Master IAMES WADESWORTH a late Pensioner of the Holy Inquisition in Siuill and W. BEDELL a Minister of the Gospell of Iesus Christ in SVFFOLKE LONDON Printed by William Stansby for William Barret and Robert Milbourne 1624. TO THE MOST HIGH AND EXCELLENT PRINCE PRINCE CHARLES I Should labour much in my excuse euen to mine owne iudgement of the highest boldnesse in daring to present these Papers to your Highnes if there were not some releeuing circumstances that giue mee hope it shall not be disagreeable to your higher goodnesse There is nothing can see the light which hath the name of Spaine in it which seemes not now properly yours euer since it pleased you to honor that Countrie with your presence And those very Motiues to the Romane obedience which had beene represented vnto you there in case you had giuen way to the propounding them are in these Letters charitably and calmly examined Betweene a couple of friends bred in the same Colledge that of the foundation of Sir WALTER MILDMAY of blessed memorie whom with honor and thankfulnesse I name chosen his Schollers at the same election lodged in the same Chamber after Ministers in the same Diocesse And that they might bee matchable abroad as well as at home attendants in the same ranke as Chaplaines on two Honorable Ambassadors of the Majestie of the King your Father in forraine parts the one in Italie the other in Spaine Where one of them hauing changed his profession and receiued a pension out of the holy Inquisition house and drawne his wife and children thither was lately often in the eyes of your Highnesse very ioyfull I suppose to see you there not more I am sure then the other was solicitous to misse you here These passages betweene vs I haue hitherto forborn to divulge out of the hope of further answer from Master Wadesworth according to his promise though since the receipt of my last being silent to my selfe he excused him in sundrie his Letters to others by his lack of health Nor should I haue changed my resolution but that I vnderstand that presently after your Highnesse departure from Spaine hee departed this life Which newes though it grieue me as it ought in respect of the losse of my friend yet it somewhat contenteth me not to haue beene lacking in my endeauour to the vndeceiuing a well-meaning man touching the state of our differences in Religion nor as I hope to haue scandalized him in the manner of handling them And conceiuing these Copies may be of some publike vse the more being liâ—ted vp aboue their owne meannesse by so high patronage I haue aduentured to prefixe your Highnesse name before them Humbly beseeching the same that if these reasons be too weake to beare vp the presumption of this Dedication it may bee charged vpon the strong desire some way to expresse the vnspeakeable joy for your Highnesse happy returne into England of one amongst many thousands Of your Highnesse most humble and deuoted seruants W. BEDELL THE CONTENTS 1. A Letter of Master Wadesworth contayning his Motiues to the Romane obedience Dated at Seuill in Spaine April 1. 1615. printed as all the rest out of his owne hand-writing pag. 1. 2. Another Letter from him requiring answere to the former from Madrid in Spaine April 14. 1619. pag. 16. 3. The answere to the last Letter Dated Aug. 5. 1619. pag. 17. 4. A Letter from Master Wadesworth vpon the receipt of the former From Madrid Dated Oct. 28. 1619. receiued May 23. 1620. pag. 23. 5. The answere to the last Letter Iune 15. 1620. pag. 25. 6. A Letter from Master Wadesworth from Madrid Iune 8. 1620. pag. 29. 7. A Letter of Master Doctor Halls sent to Master Wadesworth and returned into England with his marginall notes pag. 30. 8. A Letter returning it inclosed to Master Doctor Hall pag. 36. 9. A Letter sent to Master Wadesworth together with the Examination of his Motiues Octob. 22. 1620. pag. 36. 10. The Examination of the Motiues in the first Letter pag. 39. The heads of the Motiues reduced vnto twelue Chapters answering vnto the like figures in the Margint of the first of Master WADESWORTHS Letters Chap. I. OF the Preamble The Titles Catholike Papist Traytor Idolater The vniformitie of Faith in Protestant Religion pag. 39. Chap. II. Of the contrarietie of Sects pretended to be amongst Reformers Their differences how matters â—f Faith Of each pretending Scripture and the holy Ghost pag. 44. Chap. III. Of the want of a humane externall infallible Iudge and Interpreter The obiections answered First that Scriptures are oft matter of controuersie Secondly that they are the Law and Rule Thirdly that Princes are no Iudges Fourthly nor a whole Councell of Reformers The Popes being the Iudge and Interpreter ouerthrown by reasons And by his palpable misse-interpreting the Scriptures in his Decretals The style of his Court His Breues about the Oath of allegeance p. 50. Chap. IIII. Of the state of the Church of England and whether it may be reconciled with Rome Whether the Pope be Antichrist PAVLO V. VICE-DEO OVR LORD GOD THE POPE the Relation de moderandis titulis with the issue of it pag. 72. Chap. V. Of the safenesse to ioyne to the Romane being confessed a true Church by her Opposites Master P. Wottons peruersion printed at Venice The badge of Christs sheepe pag. 82. Chap. VI. Of fraud and corruption in alledging Councels Fathers and Doctors The falsifications imputed to Morney Bishop Iewell Master Fox Tyndals Testament Parsons foure falshoods in seuen lines A taste of the forâ—eries of the Papacy In the ancient Popes Epistles Constantines Donation Gratian The Schoolemen and Breuiaries by the complaint of the Venettan Diuines The Father 's not vntoucht Nor the Hebrew Text. pag. 91. Chap. VII Of the Armies of euident witnesses for the Romanists Whence it seemes so to the vnexpert Souldier The censure of the Centurists touching the Doctrine of the Ancients Danaeus of Saint Augustines opinion touching Purgatorie An instance or two of Imposture in wresting Tertullian Cyprian Augustine p. 108. Chap. VIII Of the inuisibilitie of the Church said to bee an eâ—asion of Protestants The promises made to the Church and her glorious Titles how they are verified out of Saint Augustine falsly applied to the whole visible Church or representatiue or the Pope pag. 118. Chap. IX Of lack of vniformitie in matters of Faith in all ages and places What matters of Faith the Church holds vniformely and so the 〈◊〉 Of Wicliffe and Hus c. whether they were martyrs p. 12â— Chap. X. Of the originall of Reformation in Luther Câ—luin Scotland England Whether King Henrie the eight were a good head of the Church Of the Reformers in France and Holland The originall growth and supporting of the Popes Monarchie considered pag. 122. Chap. XI Of
you count viz. a totall falling from Christian Religion like that of Iulian an obstinate pertinacy â—n denying the principles of the Faith necessarie to saluation or a renouncing your Baptismee The terme Apostasie as you know doth not alwaies sound so hainously A Monke forsaking his Order or a Clerke his habit is in the Decretals stiled an Apostata Granatensis saith not vntruly that euery deadly sinne is a kinde of Apostasie The Apostle Saint Paul speaking of Antichrists times saith there must come an Apostasie before Christs second comming and how this shall be he shewes elsewhere Men shall giue heede to spirits of error and doctrines of Deuils and such as speake falsehood in hypocrisieâ— Whereby it seemes that Antichrist himselfe shall not professedly renounce Christ and his Baptisme His Kingdome is a mysterie of iniquitie a reuolt therefore not from the outward profession but inward sinceritie and power of the Gospel This kinde of Apostasie might bee that which Master Hall was sory to finde in you whom hee thought fallen from the truth though not in the principles of Christian doctrine yet in sundry conclusions which the reformed Churches truely out of them maintaine He remembred our common education in the same Colledge our common oath against Popery our common calling to the same sacred function of the Ministery he could not imagine vpon what reasons you should reuerse these beginnings And certainly how weightie and sufficient soeuer they be wee are not taught by our Catholicke religion to reuenge our selues and render reproch for reproch with personall termes much lesse to debase and auile the excellent gifts of God as is Poâ—sie the honour of Dauid and Salomâ—n by the testimony of the holy Ghost himselfe These courses are forbidden vs when wee are reiled vpon and calumniated how much more when as Saint Peter speakes wee are beaten for our faults as it falls out in your case if these motiues of yours be weake and insufficient which we shall anon consider You say you are become Catholicke Were you not then so before The Creed whereinto you were baptized is it not the Catholicke faith The conclusion â—ertes of Athanasius Creed which is but a declaration thereof saith Haec est fides Catholica Or is not he a Catholick that holds the Catholicke faith That which was once answered touching the present Church of England to one in a Stationers shop in Venice that would needs know what was the difference betwixt vs and the Catholickes It was told him none for we accounted our selues good Catholicks When he vnwilling to bee put of in his answer for lacke of due forme in his question pressed to know what was the difference betwixt vs and them there He was a swered This that wee beleeued the Catholicke faith contaâ—ned in the Creed but did not beleeue the thirteenth Arâ—â—cle which the Pope had put to it When he knew not of any such Article the Extrauagant of Pope Boniface was brought where hee definesâ—â— to bee altogether of necessitie to saluation to euery humane creature to bee vnder the Bishop of Rome This thirteenth Article of the thirteenth Apostle good Master Wadesworth it seemes you haue learned and to are become as some now speake and write Catholike Romane That is in true interpretation Vniuersall-particularâ— which because they cannot bee equalled the one â—estraining and cutting off from the other take heed that by streightning your faith to Rome you haue not altered it and by becomming Romane left off to bee Catholike Thus if you say our ancestors were all till of late yeeres Excuse mee Sir whether you call our ancestors the first Christian Inhabitants of this I le or the ancient Christians of the Primitiue Church neither those nor these were Roman-Catholikes Namely the Fathers of the African Councell and amongst these Saint Augustine and therefore by Pope Boniface his sentence bee vndoubtedly damned for taking vpon them by the Deuils instinct if wee beleeue another Pope Boniface to waxe proud against the Church of Rome Such Catholikes if yee meane the most of Christendome be at this day Beware of putting your selfe vpon that issue Beleeue mee either yee must frame a new Cosmography yes a new world or else yee are gone if it come to most voyces in Christendome Touching the names of Papist Traytor Idolater The first is no mis-calling you as comprizing the very character that differenceâ—h you from all other Catholikes Neither by our Rhemists aduice should you be ashamed of it sith to be a Papist by their interpretation is nothing else but to bee a Christian man a childe of the Church and subiect to Christs Vâ—car The wise State of Venice haue a little different notion of their Papaelines excluding from sundry their consultations vnder that name such of the Nobilitie as are obliged to the Pope by Ecclesiasticall promotions True it is that they apply it also to Papalines in faction such as are superstitiously deuoted to the maintaining of all the Popes vsurped authoritie in which sense shope you are no Papist A Traytor I am assured Mâ—ster Doctor Hall will neuer call you vnlesse hee know that you haue drunke so deepe of the Cup of error as to beleeue the Pope â—y depose your Prince that you are not bound to obey him being so deposed that in that case it is lawfull yea meritorious to kill him that they are Marâ—yrs that are executed 〈◊〉 plotting to blow him vp with Gun-powder though vndeposed hoping it would bee no lesse agreeable to hiâ— Holinesse then that which hee desired to haue kepâ— him from comming to the Crowne at first If you be thus perfectly a Papist not onely wee here in England but I beleeue his Catholicke Maiestie vnder whose obedience now ye liue whensoeuer he should be that Prince would account you a Traytor and punish you accordingly I hope you are farre from these furies For Idolatry if to giue diuine honour to creatures deserue that name consider how you can defend or excuse those prayers to the Blessed Virgin Tu noâ— ab â—oste protege â—or â mortis suscipe And to the Crosse Augepus â—â—stitiam reâ—sque dona veniam I omit to speake of the Popes Omnipotencie I hope also you keepe your selfe from this Idolatry In Protestant religion you say you couiâ— neuer â—â—nae Vâ—â—formitie of a settled Faith How so when you had that same one onely immoueable and vnreformaâ—ie â—nie of â—aith as Tertullian calls it euery Lords day recited â—n your â—earing if not by your mouth I meane the Creea of which Irenaeus saith that hee which is able to say much of 〈◊〉 exceeds it not nor hee that lesse 〈◊〉 which Saint Augustine cals the rule common to great and 〈◊〉 which migâ—â— well enough haue settled and quieted 〈◊〉 conscience whâ—lest you laboured to finde the truth in all doubtfull questions Whereto how carefully and diligently you vsed the meanes of reading studying and praying for three or foure yeeres God and your conscience
best know For conferring I cannot yeeld you any testimonie notwithstanding our familiaritie and that we were not many miles asunder and you were also priuie that I had to doe in these controuersies with some of that side and saw some sample of the worke I come now to your motiues CHAP. II. Of the Contrarietie of Sects pretanded to bee amongst Reformers IN the front whereof is the commâ—on exception to our contrarâ—etie of sects and opinions c. First what are all these to the Church of England which followeth none but Christ Then if it be a fault of the reformed Churches that there is strife and diuision amongst them as who will iustifie it yet let it finde pardon if not for Corinths sake and the Primâ—tiue Churches what time Themistius was faine to excuse it with an Oration to Valens the Emperour yet euen for Romes where also you cannot but know that in very many and most important points Diuines hold one thing and Canonists another The French and lately also the Venetian Diuines resist to his face him that others say no man may bee so hardie as to aske Domine cur ita facus though he should draw with him innumerable soules to hell Your Spanish Prelates and Diuines would neuer acknowledge in the Councell of Trent the mysteries whereof are come out at last that Episcopall authoritie was deriued from him nor consent to that circumâ—enting clause Proponentibus Legatis c. and were strong that residence is de iure diuino howsoeuer they were ouerruled by the Italian faction whether they haue yet changed their mindes you can better tell then I. The old faction of the Thomists and Scotists is yet a foot as I perceiue by Rada his Controuersies In the beginning whereof the Censor of the Booke hath this sentence Qua propâ—er audiendi nullatonus sunt qui has Theologicas contentiones è medio omnino explâ—dendas arbitrantur There is another lately risen betweene the Dominicans and the Iesuites both in as great matters and pursued with as great vehemencie as those of the reformed Churches excepting onely a few fierie spirits of Saxony But in the Church of England as reformation was not brought in by any one man but by the ioynt consent of the whole so it is yet continued Lutherans Zuinglians Caluinists are not knowne among vs saue by hearesay Whereof it is some signe that your selfe doe not know them well as it seemes when you distinguish them from Protestants A name first giuen to the Princes and free Cities of Germany that sought reformation in the Diet at Spire Anno 1529. and from them passed to vs and other Countries where it was effected Who are then Protestants if the Lutherans and Zuinglians bee not For of both these there were in that Diet the Heluetians and parts adioyning of Germany hauing beene reformed at home first by the preaching of Zuinglius the Saxons and the remnant of Luther Who much about one time and without any correspondence began to oppose the Popes Indulgences and differed not for ought that euer I could yet vnderstand saue in the manner of Christs presence in the Eucharist Yea in that also taught vniformely that the bodie and bloud of our Sauiour are present not to the Elements but to the receiuer in the vse and without Transubstantiation As for those whom you call Caluinists and the rest Puritanes Cartwrightists and Brownists tell mee in good sooth Master Wadesworth how doe they differ from the reformed Churches in Heluetiâ— or the Church of England saue in the matter of gouernment onely See thâ—n all this contrarietie of Sects meetly well reconclled For Puritanes Cartwrightists and Brownists are in substance of Doctrine all one with Caluinists and these with Zwinglians who were of the first Protestants and differ litle or nothing from those whom yee call Lutherans Whereof this may bee a sensible proofe that commonly their Aduersaries and your selfe after call them by the same name the Protestant Churches in Germanie France Holland and Geneua And Pope Leo the tenth in his condemnatorie Bull and likewise Charles the fifth in his Imperiall Edict doe reflect wholly vpon Luther and his followers without any mention of the other at all To conclude this matter as it is vndoubtedly a signe of a good minde to dislike contention and diuersities of opinions and it may haue pardon to apprehend sometimes more then there is indeed like to the melancholike old man in the Comedie whose suspition makes him to multiply on this manner Qui mihi intromisisti in aedes quingentos coquos so to muster vp emptie names without any reall difference as Purâ—tans Cartwrightists Brownists to make differences in a few opinions about Gouernment or Sacraments Sects and contrarieties hath not the character of ingenuous and sincere dealing which from you Master Waddesworth I did and doe expect But some of these damne each other auouching their Positions to be matters of Faith not Schoole questions of opinion only Here indeed there is fault on all sides in this Age that we cannot be content with the bounds which the ancient Church hath set but euery priuate opinion must be straight-wayes an Article of Faith Euery decision of a Pope euery Decree of a Councell And then as men are easily enamored of their owne conceits and as Gerson wisely applies that of the Poet Qui amant sibi somnia fingunt as if the very marrow of Religion consisted in those points those that thinke otherwise are Heretikes and in state of damnation The Roman faction goes further to Fire and Faggot and all exquisite torments as if those things that make against the Papacie were more seuerely to bee punished then the blasphemies of the Iewes or Mahumetisme it selfe I doe not excuse the reformers of this bitternesse wherein after your departure out of England my namelesse Aduersarie that vnder-tooke Master Alablasters quarrell giuing me ouer in three of his demands ran riot in the first about this point of opposition among our selues and raked together all the vehement speeches of Luther and some of his followers against those whom they call the Sacramentaries Why who will vndertake to defend Lutbers speeches or all that falls from contentious pens But euen out of those testimonies which himselfe brings for the worst that hee could on the contrarie part it appeares this eagrenesse is not mutuall And in truth both we in England and the Helueâ—ians and French doe maintaine a brotherly affection towards them of Saxonie how spitefully soeuer some of them write of vs. And euen of those whom he calls Lutherans as I perceiued while I was at Norimberg the moderater sort are alike affected towards vs. But as touching the auouching our opinions to be matters of Faith which exception is common to you with him that which I should haue answered him if I had found in him any thing but spite and scorne I will say now to you Verily in some sort euen the least conclusions in Diuinitie
passage of holy Scripture For your conceit or desire that such a Iudge there should be to whom you might in conscience obey and yeeld your selfe because he could not errâ— doth not proue it You would know the Truth onely by the authoritie and sole pronouncing of the Iudges mouth A short and easie way which to most men is plausible because it spares the paines of studie and discourse To such especially as either out of weaknesse dare not trust their owne iudgement or account it shall haue the merit of humilitie to bee led by their Teachers But what now if God will haue you call no man your Father vpon earth If he will send you to his Word and after you haue receiued the Faith by the Churches testimonie out of the easie and plaine places thereof bid you search the Scriptures to finde the Truth in the remnant and pick it out by your owne industrie The rich man being in hell torments in whose wordes I doubt not but our Sauiour doth impersonate and represent the conceits of many men liuing in this world presumes that if one were sent from the dead his Kinsmen would hearken to him but he is remitted to Moses and the Prophets The Iewes as I perceiued by speech with some of them at Venice make it one of their motiues that our Lord Iesus is not the Christ. He should not say they haue come in such a fashion to leaue his owne Nation in doubt and suspence and scandalize so many thousands but so as all men might know him to be what he was Miserable men that will giue lawes to God Of which fault be you a ware also good Master Waddesworth and be content to take not to prescribe the meanes by which you will be brought vnto the knowledge of the Truth to vse what hee hath giuen not to coniecture and diuine what he must giue But God failes not his Church in such meanes as be necessarie Let vs therefore consider the necessitie of this Iudge Where I beseech you consider for I am sure you cannot but know it that all things necessary to saluation are euidently set downe in holy Scripture This both the Sciptures themselues doe teach and the Fathers auouch namely Saint Augustine and Saint Chrysostome and others I forbeare to set downe their words or further to confirme this Lemma which I proued at large against another aduersarie and shall at all times make good if it be questioned Besides these points there are a great manie other though not of such necessitie yet euidently laid downe also in the same Scriptures by occasion of them Manie by iust discourse may be cleared from these and the former If any thing yet remaine in suspence and vnknowne yea or if you will erred in so it be not wilfully and obstinately yet shall it be euer without perill of damnation to him that receiueth what the holy Ghost hath plainely deliuered What necessitie then of your imaginarie Iudge Yes for Vnitie is a goodly thing not onely in matters necessarie but vniuersally in all Controuersies must not bee endlesse But how comes it to passe then that your Iudge whosoeuer hee be doth not all this while decide the question touching the Conception of the Blessed Virgin that is betweene the Dominicans and Franciscans nor that betweene the Dominicans and Iesuites touching Grace and Free-will and all other the points that are controuerted in the Schooles to spare contention and time a precious commoditie among wise men and giue this honour to Diuinitie alone that in â—t all doubts should be reduced to certainties Or if it seeme no wisedome to bee hastie in deciding such questions wherein wittie and learned men are engaged least in stead of changing their opinions they should fall to challenge not onely the infallibilitie but which were more dangerous the authoritie of their Iudge If it be thought better to leaue scope to opinions opposition it selfe profitably seruing to the boulting out of the truth If vnitie in all things bee as it seemes despaired of by this your Gellius himselfe why are wee not content with vnitie in things necessary to saluation expresly set downe in holy Scripture and anciently thought to suffice reseruing infallibilitie as an honour proper to God speaking there Why should it not be thought to suffice that euery man hauing imbraced that necessarie truth which is the rule of our faith thereby trie the spirits whether they be of God or no. If hee meete with any that hath not that doctrine receiue him not to house nor salute him If consenting to that but otherwise infirme or erring yet charitably beare with him This for euery priuate man As for the publike order peace of the Church God hath giuen Pastors and Teachers that we should not bee carried about with euery winde of doctrine and amongst them appointed Bishops to command that men teach no other or forraine doctrine which was the end of Timothy his leauing at Ephesus 1. Tim. 1. 3. Then the Apostles themselues by their example haue commended to the Church the wholsome vse of Synodes to determine of such controuersies as cannot by the former meanes be composed but still by the holy Scriptures the Law or Rule as you say well by which all these Iudges must proceede Which if they doe not then may they be deceiued themselues and deceiue others as experience hath shewed yet neuer bee able to extinguish the truth To come to Antiquitie There is not any one thing belonging to Christian Religion if wee consider well of more importance then how the puritie of the whole may bee maintayned The Ancients that write of the rest of Christian Doctrine is it not a miracle had they knowne any such infallâ—ble Iudge in whose Oracle the securitie of all with the perpetuall tranquillitie of the Church is contayned they should say nothing of him There was neuer any Age wherein there haue not beene heresies and sects to which of them was it euer obiected that they had no infallible Iudge How soone would they haue fought to amend that defect if it had beene a currant doctrine in those times that the true Church cannot bee without such an Officer The Fathers that dealt with them why did they not lay aside all disputing and appeale them only to this Barre Vnlesse perhaps that were the let which Cardinall Bellarmine tells the Venetians hindered Saint Paul from appealing to Saint Peter lâ—st they should haue made their Aduersaries to laugh at them for their labour Well howsoeuer the Cardinall hath found out a merrie reason for Saint Paules appealing to Caesars iudgement not Peters lest hee should expose himselfe to the laughter of Pagans what shall wee say when the Fathers write professedly to instruct Catholike men of the forepleadings and aduantages to bee vsed against Heretikes euen without descending to triall by Scriptures or of some certaine generall and ordinarie way to discerne the Truth of the Catholike Faith from the
prophane nouelties of heresies Had they knowne of this infallible Iudge should wee not haue heard of him in this so proper a place and as it were in a cause belonging to his owne Court Nay doth not the writing it selfe of such bookes shew that this mattter was wholly vnknowne to Antiquitie For had the Church beene in possession of so easie and sure a Court to discouer and discard heresies they should not haue needed to taske themselues to finde out any other But the truth is infallibilitie is and euer hath beene accounted proper to Christs iudgement And as hath beene said all necessarie Truth to saluation hee hath deliuered vs in his Word That Word himselfe tells vs shall iudge at the last day Yea in all true decisions of Faith that Word euen now iudgeth Christ iudgeth the Apostle sits Iudge Christ speakes in the Apostle Thus Antiquitie Neither are they moued a whit with that obiection That the Scriptures are often the matter of Controuersies For in that case the remedie was easie which Saint Augustine shewes to haue recourse to the plaine places and manifest such as should need no interpreter for such there bee by which the other may bee cleered The same may be said if sometimes it be questioned which bee Scriptures which not I thinke it was neuer heard of in the Church that there was an externall infallible Iudge who could determine that question Arguments may be brought from the consent or dissent with other Scriptures from the attestation of Antiquitie and inherent signes of diuine authoritie or humane infirmitie but if the Auditor or Aduersarie yeeld not to these such parts of necessitie must needes be laid aside If all Scripture be denied which is as it were exceptio in iudicem ante litis contestationem Faith hath no place onely Reason remaines To which I thinke it will scarce seeme reasonable if you should say though all men are liers yet this Iudge is infallible and to him thou oughtest in conscience to obey and yeeld thy vnderstanding in all his detâ—rminations for hee cannot erre No not if all men in the world should say it Vnlesse you first set downe there is a God and stablish the authoritie of the bookes of holy Scripture as his voyce and thence shew if you can the warrant of this priuiledge Where you offiâ—me the Scriptures to be the law and the rule but alone of themselues cannot bee Iudges if you meane without being produced applied and heard yee say truth Yet Nicodemus spake not aâ—isse when hee demanded Doth our law iudge any man vnlesse it heare him first hee meant the same which Saint Paul when hee said of the high Priest thou sittest to iudge me according to the law and so doe we when wee say the same Neither doe wee send you to Angels or God himselfe immediately but speaking by his spirit in the Scriptures and as I haue right now said alledged and by discourse applied to the matters in question As for Princes since it pleased you to make an excursion to them if wee should make them infallible Iudge or giue them authoritie to decree in religion as they list as Gardiner did to King Henry the eight it might well bee condemned for monstrous as it was by Caluin As for the purpose Licere Regi interdicere populo vsum calicis in Coena Quarè Potestas 〈◊〉 summa est penes Regem quoth Gardiner This was to make the King as absolute a Tyrant in the Church as the Pope claimed to bee But that Princes which obey the truth haue commandement from God to command good things and forbid euill not onely in matters pertaining to humane societie but also the religion of God this is no new strange doctrine but Calums and ours and S. Augustines is so many words And this is all the Head-ship of the Church wee giue to Kings Whereof a Queene is as well capable as a King since it is an Act of authoritie not Ecclesiasticall Ministery proceeding from eminencie of power not of knowledge or holinesse Wherein not onely a learned King as ours is but a good old woman as Queene Elizabeth besides her Princely dignitie was may excell as your selues confesse your infallible Iudge himselfe But in power hee saith hee is aboue all which not to examine for the present in this power Princes are aboue all their subiects I trow and Saint Augustine saith plainly to command and forbid euen in the religion of God still according to Gods Word which is the touchstone of good and euill Neither was King Henry the eight the first Prince that exercised this power witnesse Dauid and Salomon and the rest of the Kings of Iudah before Christ And since that Kings were Christians the affaires of the Church haue depended vpon them and the greatest Synodes haue beene by their Decree as Socrates expresly saith Nor did King Henry claime any new thing in this Land but restored to the Crowne the ancient right thereof which sundry his predecessors had exercised as our Historians and Lawyers with one consent affirme The rest of your induction of Archbishops Bishops and whole Clergie in their Conuocation house and a Councell of all Lutherans Caluinists Protestants c. is but a needlesse pompe of words striuing to win by a forme of discourse that which gladly shall bee yeelded at the first demand They might all erre if they were as many as the sand on the sea shoare if they did not rightly apply the rule of holy Scriptures by which as you acknowledge the externall Iudge which you seeke must proceed As to your demand therefore how you should be sure when and wherein they did and did not erre where you should haue fixed your foot to forbeare to skirmish with your confirmation That though à posse ad esse non valet semper consequentia yet aliquando valet frustra dicitur potentia quae nunquam dueitur in actum To the former whereof I might tell you that without question nunquam valet and to the second that I can verie well allow that errandi potentia among Protestants be euer frustra This I say freely that if you come with this resolution to learne nothing by discourse or euidence of Scripture but only by the meere pronouncing of a humane externall Iudges mouth to whom you would yeeld your vnderstanding in all his determinations if as the Iesuites teach their Schollers you will wholly deny your owne iudgement and resolue that if this Iudge shall say that is blacke which appeares to your eyes white you will say it is blacke too you haue posed all the Protestants they cannot tell how to teach you infallibly Withall I must tell you thus much that this preparation of minde in a Scholler as you are in a Minister yea in a Christian that had but learned his Creed much more that had from a childe knowne the holy Scriptures that are able to make vs wise to saluation
through the faith that is in Christ Iesus were too great weakenesse and to vse the Apostles phrase childishnesse of vnderstanding But at length you heard a sound of harmony and consent that in the Catholike Church as in Noahs Arke was infallibilitie and possibilitie of saluation which occasioned you to seeke out and to enter into this Arke of Noah The sound of consent and infallibilitie is most pleasing and harmonious and vndoubtedly euer and onely to bee found in the Catholike Church to wit in the rule of Faith and in the holy Scriptures and such necessarie doctrine as perfectly concordeth with the same But as in song many discords doe passe in smaller notes without offence of the eares so should they in smaller matters of opinion in the Church without the offence of iudicious and charitable mindes Which yet I speake not to iustifie them nay I am verily of the minde that this is the thing that hath marred the Church musicke in both kindes that too much libertie is taken in descant to depart from the gound and as one saith notae nimium denigrantur The fault of the Italians though they thinke themselues the onely songsters in the world But to returne to you tell me I beseech you good Master Wadesworth was this the harmonie that transported you The Pope himselfe saith I cannot erre and to mee thou oughtest to haue recourse for decision of doubts in matters of faith And whereas this is not onely denied by Protestants but hath beene euer by the French and anciently I am sure by the Spanish lately by some Italian Diuines also vnlesse hee vse due meanes to finde the truth yea whereas it is the issue of all the Controuersies of this age in this snare you fastned your foot this was the Center that settled your conscience this the solid and firme foundation of your faith What and did it not moue you that some limit this infallibilitie of the Pope thus if hee enter Canonically if hee proceed aduisedly and maturely vsing that diligence that is fit to finde out the truth that is as you said before proceeding by the rule the Scriptures Albeit to the Fathers of the African Councell it seemed incredible as they write in their Synodall Epistle to P. Coelestine standing for appeales to himselfe that God can inspire the right iâ— tâ—iall to one denying it to many Bishops in a Councell Tell vs then who made you secure of these things or did you in truth neuer so much as make question of them but hearing this harmonious sound The Pope is the infallible Iudge you trusted the new Masters of that side Gregory de Valentia and Bellarmine that whether the Pope in defining doe vse diligence or no if hee doe define hee shall define infallibly Alas Sir if this were the rest you found for the soale of your foot instead of moueable water you fell vpon mire and puddle Or rather like to another Doue mentioned in Scripture columba seducta non habens cor by the most chaffie shrap that euer was set before the eyes of winged Fowle were brought to the doorefall Excuse my griefe mixed I confesse with some indignation but more loue to you though I thus write Many things there be in Poperie inconuenient and to my conceit weakely and vngroundedly affirmed to say no more but this is so absurd and palpably a flatterie as to omit to speake of you for my part I cannot bee perswaded that Paulus the fifth beleeues it himselfe For consider I pray what needed anciently the Christian Emperours and sometimes at the request of the Bishops of Rome themselues to haue gathered together so many Bishops from so diuers parts of the world to celebrate Councells if it had beene knowne and beleeued then that one mans sentence might haue cleered all controuersies and put all heresies to silence How durst sundrie holy and learned men haue reiected his decisions whether right or wrong is not now the question vnchristianly out of doubt on their parts if hee had beene then holden the infallible Oracle of our religion As when Polycrates with the Bishops of Asia and Irenaeus also yeelded not to Victor excommunicating the Easterne Churches about the celebration of Easter when Saint Cyprian with the first Councell of Carthage of eightie sixe Bishops had decreed that such as were baptized by heretickes should bee rebaptized and certified Stephanus of this Decree and he opposed it and would haue nothing innouated would Cyprian after that haue resisted and confuted Stephanus his letter had he knowne him for infallible And how doth hee confute him as erring writing impertinently contrarie to himselfe Yea let it bee obserued that hee doth not onely not account Stephanus infallible but not so much as a Iudge ouer any Bishop See the Vote of Cyprian and note those wordes Neque enim quisquam nostrum Episcopum se esse Episcoporum constituit an t tyrannico terrore ad obsequendi necessitatem collegas suos adigit quando habeat omnis Episcopus pro licentia libertatis potestatis suae arbitrium proprium tanquam iudicari ab alio non possit cum nec ipse possit alterum iâ—dicare Sed exspectemus vniuersi iudiciuÌ„ Domini nostri Iesu Christi qui vnus solus habet potestateÌ„ praeponendi in Ecclesiae suae gubernatione de actis nostro iudicandi A passage worthy to bee noted also for the cleering of the independence of Episcopall authoritie from the Pope which I now let passe Neither was Saint Cyprian herein alone Firmilianus and the Easterne Bishops resisted Stephanus no lesse as appeares by his Epistle which in the Romane edition of Manutiuâ— set forth by the command of Pius the fourth with the suruey of foure Cardinalls whereof one is now a Saint with exquisite diligence is wholly left out And Pamelius saith hee thinkes purposely for himselfe is of the minde that it had beene better it had neuer come forth But to returne to our purpose The Fathers of the Councell of Africke and Saint Augustine amongst them resist three Popes succeeding each other Zosimus Boniface and Coelestinus about appeales to Rome shall we thinke they would euer haue done it if they had knowne or imagined them to be the supreme and infallible Iudges in the Church I let passe the Schisme betweene the Greeke and the Latin Church which had not happened if this doctrine had beene anciently receiued Nay it is verie plaine in storie that the Bishop of Romes lifting vp himselfe to bee Vniuersall Bishop chiefly caused it To conclude neither Liberius nor Honorius to omit many other Bishops of Rome had euer beene taxed of heresie if this had anciently beene currant that the Pope is infallible I will not stand now to examine the shamefull defence that Bellaâ—mine makes for the latter of these bearing downe Fathers Councells Stories Popes themselues as all falsified or deoeiued herein Wherein because hee is learnedly refuted by Doctor Raynolds I insist not vpon it
modestie neuer vsurped this Title full of arrogancy neuer heard it with patient eares To this let it first bee considered that the Censors of such things as come to the Presse are not to bee imagined such Babes as not to know what will please or displease his Holinesse Especially in writings dedicated to himselfe a man may be sure they will allow nothing the second time and after some exception and scandal taken at it but what shall bee iustified How much more in the Popes owne Towne of Bologna and when his Chaplaine could not bee allowed to print it at home But to let all these goe wee may haue a more sensible proofe how the Pope tastes these Titles That which hee rewards hee approues Benedictus was shortly after made for his paines Bishop of Caorli How worthily hee deserued it you shall iudge by his booke which at my request vouchsafe to reade ouer and if there be any merit you shall sure get great meede of patience in so doing That you may not doubt of the Popes iudgement concerning these Titlâ—s you shall further know that the matter being come to the knowledge of the Protestants in France and England made them talke and write of it broadly namely the Lord of Plessis in his Mysterium iniquitatis and the Bishop of Chichester in his Tortura Torti This gaue occasion to the Cardinall Gieurè to relate in the Officio Santo at Rome of the scandall taken hereat and to make a motion De moderandis titulis It was on foot sundrie moneths At last the Pope reuoking it to himselfe blamed those that had spoken against these Titles and said they were no whit greater then the authoritie of S. Peters Successor did beare To returne thither whence I haue a litle digressâ—d In the question whether the Pope bee the Antichrist or no for my part I despaire of all reconciliation For neither doth there appeare any inclination at all in the Pope to reforme any thing in Doctrine or Gouernment nay he encroacheth daily more and more vpon all degrees euen among his owne subiects and resolues to carry all before him at the brest with his Monarchy and infallibilitie On the other side the Reformers partly emboldned with successe partly enforced by necessitie chiefly tyed with band of conscience and perswasion of truth are not like to retract what they haue affirmed in this behalfe and whatsoeuer their differences be in other things in this point they haue a maruellous vnâ—tie amongst them These in France hauing beene molested for calling the Pope Antichrist haue beene occasioned as I haue heard some few yeares since to take it into their Confession thereby to iustifie themselues accorâ—ing to th' Edicts of Pacification giuing them libertie to proâ—esse their Religion In England as you know it is no part of the doctrine of our Church yet a commonly receiued opinion Howbeit this is so farre from hindering that the reformed Chuâ—ches and those which heretofore were or at this present are vnder the Popes obedience be one Church that is all members of the Catholike that the Protestants without this cannot make good the other For Antichrist must sit in the Temple of God and that is in the Church as Chrysostome and Theophylact interpret it and Gods people could not be commanded to goe out of Babell if he had none there CHAP. V. Of the safenesse to ioyne to the Roman being confessed a true Church by her opposites BVt you concluded hence that seeing many of the best learned Protestants did grant the Church of Rome to be a true Church though faultie in some things and contrarily not onely the Romanists but Puritanes Anabaptists and Brownist denie the Church of England to be so therefore it would be more safe and secure to become a Roman Catholike c. This discourse hath a pretâ—e shew at the first blush and perhaps was vsed to you since your comming to Spaine as it was to some there before At my comming to Venice I fell vpon certaine letters and reports set forth as it was told me by F. Posseuine and not vnlike by his mindefulnesse to all occasions to aduance the credit of his societie Amongst them there is one said to be a true Relation of the manner how M. Pickering Wotton was conuerted to the Catholike Roman faith indited as it is said and subscribed by himselfe before his death In which by a certaine Father of the companie of Iesus an Englishman by nation the like discourse was vsed as it is said to him That hee should consider well that he and other Protestants did not denie that the Catholikes might be saued in their faith whereas all the Catholikes that either liued at the present or euer were hold it as a most certaine Article of Faith that the Protestants and other heretickes cannot be saued out of the Catholicke Church therefore if he should become a Catholike he should enter into that way which was safe by the consent of both parts This consideration be saith moued him not much then But after praying to God as he was also aduised by that Father to direct him into the right way if hee were out of it suddenly hee saw a certaine light very clearely before his eyes in forme of a crosse Whereupon incontinently there was offered vnto him such a heape of reasons and arguments by which was shewed that the Catholike faith is the onely way of saluation and that of the Protestants on the contrarie most absurd and abominable that most euidently he was conuinced without any the least doubt And these reasons which then offered themselues to him were for the most part such as hee did not remember that he had euer heard them in all his life Thereupon with vnspeakeable ioy he called backe the Father told him what had hapned praied him to heare his confession and he examining him vpon all the heads of the Catholike religion which he most firmely and entirely beleeued heard his confession c. But this narration deserues little credit First creating Master Wâ—tton for the greater glorie of their triumph a Baron vnlesse the Fathers in Spaine or Posseuine in Italie haue a â—acultie to create Barons Next it is a very improbable thing that Master Wotton dying of a Calenture should haue so good a memorie as to indite so exact and artificiall a Narration with such formalitie and enforcements in fit places as any Reader of vnderstanding must needes perceiue came out of a diligent forge and needed more hammering and fyling then so But that of all other is most Legendlike that howsoeuer this motiue of yours is vsed yet it is not made the effectuall inducement but a heape of reasons in the twinkling of an eye and causing him not onely to beleeue in the grosse but to be able to giue acâ—ount of all the heads of the Catholike religion that is all the points of controuersie at this day betweene the Romists and the reformed Churches in a fit of an Agâ—e in
Christ Heretickes and Sectaries accursed them drew them out of â—heir Synagogues scourged them cast them in prison compelled them to blaspheme as you doe now Protestants to adiuâ—e though in other cruelties I confesse you goe farre beyond them By like reason a Pagan in Saint Augustines time should rather haue made himselfe a Christian among the Donatists then with the Catholikes For the Catholikes granted the Donatists Baptisme to bee true accounâ—ed them Brethren The Donatists to the contrary renounced their Brother-hood and Baptisme both rebaptized such as fell to their side vsed these formes to their friends Saue thy Soule become a Christian like to those vsed by your Reconcilers at this â—ay Lastly consider if this ground of the testimony of our contraries for our part and their lack of ours for theirs be sure you haue iustified the cause of the Protestants in the maine question which is the better religion For whatsoeuer a Protestant holds as of Faith you cannot deny to bee good and Catholike nor any Christian man else For hee binds him to his Creed to the holy Scriptures and goes no further and in these he hath your testimony for him But hee denies many things which you beleeue and accounts them forreine yea repugnant to Faith as the Popes infallibilitie Transubstantiation Purgatory worshipping of Images inuocation of Saints In all these you speake onely for your selues in some of these you haue not vs onely but all other Christians your opposites to say nothing of the Iewes and Turkes whom I might as well chocke you withall as you doe the Protestants with Anabaptists So by this reason our profession is more safe and secure and questionlesse is more Catholike then yours Neither haue wee in this discourse the Argument onely as you see very appliable and fauourable to vs but which I would entreate you by the way to obserue the conclusion it selfe often granâ—ed by moderate and sober men of your owne side viz. that our course is in sundry things more safe then yours As in making no Image of God In trusting onely in the merits of Christ. In worshipping none but the Trinitie In directing our prayers to our Lord Iesus Christ alone In allowing Ministers to marry In diâ—ers other points also many of your side say the same with the Protestants and defend vs from the imputations which others of you lay vpon vs as is shewed in the Catholike Apologie by the Reuerend Bishop of Chester This to the proposition Let vs come to the Assumption where you mince too much the Protestants opinion touching the Church of Rome when you make them say It is peraduenture faultie in some things Nay without peraduenture they say It is corrupt in doctrine superstitious and Idolatrous in religion tyrannicall in gouernment defiled in manners from the crowne of the head to the soale of the foot no soundnes in it as the Prophet saith of another like it yet the vitall parts not perished readie to die yet not dead A true Church though neither the Catholike Church nor yet a sound member of the same That also is false in the assumption that the Puritans denie the Church of England to bee a true Church Vnlesse the Puritans and Brownists bee with you all one which you haue made diuers Sects aboue and then are you to blame as to multiply names whereof I haue told you before so now againe to confound them What is now the Conclusion It would be more safe and secure to become a Roman Catholike But the Proposition wil not inferre thus much simply but onely in this respect For Topicall arguments as you know hold onely caeteris paribus We must then inquire if there be no other intrinsecall arguments by which it may bee discerned whether cause bee the better whether pretence to the Church and Truth more iust more euident Whether it may bee warranted to returne to Babell because God hath some people there when as he commands those that are there to come out of it How safe it may bee willingly to ioyne with that part of the Church which is more corrupt in Doctrine and Manners when wee may continue with that which is reformed These points were to haue been scanned ere you concluded and executed as you did And such Arguments there want not Christ our Lord hath giuen vs amongst others two infallible Notes to know his Church My Sheepe saith hee heare my voice and againe By this shall all men knowe that yee are my Disciples if yee loue one another What shall wee stand vpon coniecturall Arguments from that which men say We are partiall to our selues malignant to our opposites Let Christ bee heard who bee his who not And for the hearing of his voice O that it might be the issue But I see you decline it Therefore I leaue it also for the present That other is that which now I stand vpon the badge of Christs sheepe Not a likelihood but a certaine token whereby euery man may know them By this saith he shall all men know that yee are my Disciples if yee haue charitie one towards another Thanks be to God This marke of our Sauiour is in vs which you with our Schismatikes and other enemies want As Salomon found the true Mother by her naturall affection that chose rather to yeeld to her Aduersaries plea clayming her childe then endure it should bee cut in peeces so may it soone bee found at this day whether is the right Mother Ours that saith giue her the liuing child and kill him not or yours that if shee may not haue it is content it bee killed rather then want of her will Alas saith ours euen of those that leaue her these be my children I haue borne them to Christ in Baptisme I haue nourished them as I could with mine owne breasts his Testaments I would haue brought them vp to mans estate as their free birth and parentage deserues Whether it bee their lightnesse or discontent or her enticing wordes and gay shewes they leaue me they haue found a better Mother Let them liue yet though in bondage I shall haue patience I permit the care of them to their Father I beseech him to keepe them that they doe none euill if they make their peace with him I am satisfied they haue not hurt me at all Nay but saith yours I sit alone as Queene and Mistris of Christs family hee that hath not me for his Mother cannot haue God for his Father Mine therefore are these either borne or adopted and if they will not bee mine they shall bee none So without expecting Christs sentence shee cuts in peeces with the temporall sword hangs burnes drawes those that shee perceiues inclined to leaue her or haue left her alreadie So shee kils with the spirituall sword those that subiect not to her yea thousands of soules that not onely haue no meanes so to doe but many which neuer so
to bee an euasion of Protestants THe first whereof is the dislike of the Protestants euasion as you call it by the inuisibilitie of their Church Giue mee leaue here to tell you plainly yee seeme to mee not to vnderstand the Protestants doctrine in this point Else yee would haue spared all that The Catholike Church must euer be visible as a Citie set on a hill otherwise how should shee teach her children conuert Pagans dispence Sacraments All this is yeelded with both hands The Congregations of which the Catholike Church doth consist are visible But the promise made to this Church of victory against the gates of hell the titles of the house of God the base and piller of Truth an allusion as I take it to the bases and pillers that held vp the veile or curtaines in the Tabernacle the body of Christ his Doue his vndefiled are not verified of this Church in the whole visible bulke of it but in those that are called according to Gods purpose giuen to Christ and kept by him to bee raised vp to life at the last day This doctrine is Saint Augustines in many placeâ— which it would bee too tedious to set downe at large In his third booke De doctrina Christiana among the rules of Tychonius there is one which hee corrects a little for the tearmes De Domini corpore bipertito which he saith ought not to haue beene called so for in truth that is not the Lords body which shal not be with him for euer but he should haue said of the Lords true body and mixt or true and fained or some such thing Because not onely for euer but euen now hypocrites are not to be said to be with him though they seeme to be in his Church Consider those resemblances taken out of the holy Scripture wherein that godly Father is frequent of chaffe and wheat in the Lords floore of good and bad fishes in the net of spots and light in the Moone Of the Church carnall and spirituall of the wicked multitudes of the Church yet not to be accounted in the Church Of the lilly and the thornes those that are marked which mourne for the sinnes of Gods people and the rest which perish which yet beare his Sacraments Consider the last Chapter of the booke De Vnitate Ecclesiae and that large Treatise which he hath of that matter Epist. 48. The place is long which deserues to bee read for the obiection of the Vniuersality of Arianisme like to that of Papisme in these last ages which Saint Augustine answeres in the fifth booke De Baptismo contra Donatistas cap. 27. That number of the iust who are called according to Gods purpose of whom it is said The Lord knoweth who are his is the inclosed garden the sealed fountaine the well of liuing waters the orchard with Apples c. The like hee hath l. 5. c. 3. 23. he concludes that because such are built vpon the Rocke as heare the Word of God and doe it and the rest vpon the sand now the Church is built vpon the Rocke all therefore that heare the Word of God and doe it not are out of question without the Church In the seuenth booke cap. 51. Quibus omnibus consideratisâ— Read and marke the whole Chapter Out of these and many more like places which I forbeare to mention it appeares that albeit the true Catholike Church is such as cannot bee hid yet considering that it consists of two sorts of people the one which is the greater part who doe not indeed properly belong to it the other the fewer truely and properly so called to whom all the glorious things spoken of the Church doe agree The face therefore of the mixt Church may be ouer-run with scandals as in all times almost The greatest number may sometime bee Idolaters as in the Kingdome of Israel vnder Achab. The principallest in authoritie may bee false teachers as the Priests and Prophets in Ieremies time the sonnes of pestilence may sit in Moses Chaire as they did in Christs time Yet still the Church is the ground and piller of Truth in the Elect Ipsa est praedestinata columna firmamentum veritatis The Sheepe heare not Seducers Iohn 10. 8. to wit finally and in any damnable point Thus was it before Christ thus since thus in the Church of England before yea and since it was reformed Thus in that of Rome it selfe at this day There is a distinction of Thomas of those that be in the Church which rightly â— interpreted agrees fully herewith There are some De Ecclesia numero tantum Some numero merito The former are such as haue onely fidem informem the latter formatam Now though the persons of such as be in the Church be visible yet the Faith and Charitie of men wee see not and to argue from the priuiledges of the Church numero merito to the Church numero tantum is a perpetuall but a palpable paraâ—ogisme of the Romish faction which is grosser yet when they argue to the Church representatiue and grossest of all when one man is made the Church and he as themselues grant may fall out a Deuill incarnate CHAP. IX Of lacke of Vniformitie in matters of Faith in all ages and places ANd in this selfe same Paralogisme you were beguiled with in the next point of Vniformitie and concord in matters of Faith The true Church yee say â—uer holds such Vniformitie It is vtterly false in the Visible and mixt Church both before Christ and since It is false in the Church of Rome it selfe whose new-coyned faith patched to the Creed by Pius the Fourth came in peece-meale out of priuate opinions and corrupt vsages nor euer was in any age vniformely holden or taught as matter of Faith euen in it as it is at this day So by your owne discourse it should be no true Church And taking matters of faith so largely as it seemes you doe in opposition to such things as bee cerâ—mâ—nies or of gouernment it is vntrue also of the Church of the Elect or properly so called For though the Faith in the principles thereof bee euer the same yet many conclusions of Faith haue sometimes lien vnsearched out and like some parts of the world vnknowne till by the industrie of Gods seruants occasioned also by the importunitie and opposition of Heretikes they were discouered Sundrie common errours also there haue beene which in succeeding ages haue beene cleered and reformed as the â—hiliastes That Angels haue bodies That children after they be baptized are to be communicated That Heretikes are to be rebaptized To the Assumption First the Protestants challenge not to themselues any Church as their owne which I must aduertise you of here because formerly also you doe vse this phrase The Church is Christs both the visible and inuisible Next taking matters of Faith for foundations or articles of Faith necessarie to saluation the Church of Christ hath in all ages had
vniforme concord with the Protestants at this day in such matters as appeareth by the common rule of Faith the Creede and so hath also the Church vnder the Popes tyrannie As to the Trent-additions they are forraine to the Faith as neither principles nor conclusions thereof neither can your selues shew vniforme consent and concord in them and namely in the 11. of them in any one age especially as matters of saluation as now they are canonized How much lesse can yee shew it in all other conclusions of Faith whereabout there haue beene among you as are now among vs and euer will bee differences of opinions without any prejudice for all that vnto the vnitie of the Faith of the Church and title to the name of it As for Wicliffe Hus and the rest if they haue any of them borne record to the Truth and resisted any innouation of corrupt Teachers in their times euen to bloud they are iustly to be termed Martyrs yea albeit they saw not all corruptions but in some were themselues carried away with the streame of error Else if because they erred in some things they bee no Martyrs or because wee dissent from them in some things we are not of the same Church both you and we must quit all claime to Saint Cyprian Iustine Martyr and many more whom wee count our Ancients and Predecessors and bereaue them also of the honour of Martyrdome which so long they haue enjoyed You see I hope by this time the weaknesse of your Argument CHAP. X. Of the originall of reformation in Luther Caluin Scotland England c. IN your next Motiue taken from the originall of Reformation before I come to answere your Argument shortly coucht in forme I must endeuour to reforme your iudgement in sundrie points of storie wherein partly you are misse-led and abused by Parsons and others of that spirit partly you haue mistaken some particulars and out of a false imagination framed a like discourse First for Luther it was not his ranâ—our against the Dominicans that stirred him vp against the Pope but the shamefull merchandize of Indulgences set to sale in Germanie to the aduantage of Magdalen sister to Pope Leo X. Beleeue herein if not Sleidan yet Gâ—â—cciardine l. 13. And of all that mention those affaires it is acknowledged that at the first and for a good time he shewed all obedience and reuerence to the Pope The new Historie of the Councell of Trent written by an Italian a subiect and part of the Church of Rome as should appeare by the Epistle Dedicatorie of the Reuerend and learned Archbishop of Spalato prefixed to his Maiestie speaketh thus of the matter Questo diede occasione c. This gaue occasion to Martin to passe from Indulgences to the authoritie of the Pope which being by others proclaymed for the highest in the Church by him was made subiect to a Generall Councell lawfully celebrated Whereof hee said that there was neede in that instant and vrgent necessitie And as the heat of disputation continued by how much the more the Popes power was by others exalted so much the more was it by him abased yet so as Martin contayned himselfe within the termes of speaking modestly of the person of Leo and sauing sometimes his iudgement Againe After his departure from the presence of Cardinall Cajetan at Augusta hee saith hee wrote a letter to the Cardinall confessing that hee had beene too vehement and excusing himselfe by the importunitie of the Pardoners and of those that had written against him promising to vse more modestie in time to come to satisfie the Pope and not to speake any more of Indulgences prouided that his aduersaries would doe the like This was Luthers manner at the first till the Bull of Pope Leo came out dated the ninth of Nouember 1518. Wherein he declared the validitie of Indulgences and that hee as Peters Successor and Christs Vicar had power to grant them for the quicke and dead that this is the doctrine of the Church of Rome the Mother and Mistris of all Christians and ought to bee receiued of all that would bee in the Communion of the Church From this time forward Luther began to change his stile And saith he as before hee had for the most part reserued the person and iudgement of the Pope so after this Bull he resolued to refuse it and thereupon put forth an Appeale to the Councell c. You see then how submissiuely Luther at first carried himself But extreme tyrannie ouer-comes often a well prepared patience Touching his causing rebellion also against the Emperour yee are misse-informed his aduice was asked about the association of the Protestants at Smalcald hee said plainly hee could not see how it could bee lawfull further then for their owne defence Ioh. Bodin in his second Booke de Repub cap. 5. hath these wordes We reade also that the Protestant Princes of Almaine before they tooke armes against the Emperour demanded of Martin Luther if it were lawfull He answered freely that it was not lawfull whatsoeuer tyrannie or impietie were pretended He was not beleeued so the end thereof was miserable and drew after it the ruine of great and illustrious houses of Germanie As for the warre in Germanie it began not till after Luthers death neither was it a rebellion of the Protestants the truth is they stood for their liues The Emperour with the helpe of the Popes both mony and armes intended to roote them out and although at the first the Emperour did not auow his raysing armes against them to be for Religion yet the Pope in his Iubilee published vpon this occasion did not let to declare to the world that himselfe and Caesar had concluded a league to reduce the Hâ—retikes by force of armes to the obedience of the Church and therefore all should pray for the good successe of the warre That Luther euer reuiled the Emperour I did neuer till now heare or reade and therefore would desire to know what authors you haue for it Touching other Princes namely King Henrie the eighth I will not defend him who condemned himselfe thereof It is true that he was a man of a bold and high stomacke and specially fitted thereby through the prouidence of God to worke vpon the heauie and dull disposition of the Almaines and in so generall a Lethargie as the world then was in hee carried himself as fell out somtimes very â—oisterously But arrogancie schâ—sme rebellion were as farre from him as the intention itself to plant a Church As to his Vow-breaking lastly if that Vow were foolishly made and sinfully kept it was iustly broken perhaps also charitably if hee would by his owne example reforme such as liued in whoredome and other vncleannes and induce them to vse the remedie that God hath appointed for the auoiding of them to wit honorable marriage All this matter touching Luther vnlesse I be â—eceiued you haue taken from 〈◊〉 Harding that at least touching his
rancour against the Dominicans for it is his very phrase But Master Harding both in this and many things else discouereth his passion and lack of true information in this affaire When with one breath he affirmeth that first it was a Pardon of a Croisade against the Turkes which was preached whereas it was an Indulgence to those that should put their helping hands for the building of Saint Peters Church at Rome as the Articles of this Pardon printed in English one of the Copies whereof I haue my selfe doe shew Secondly next hee saith the preaching hereof was granted to Friar Iohn Tetzet It was Friar Iohn Thecel or Tecel Thirdly hee saith the Elector of Mentz Albert granted this to Tâ—ecel and the Dominicans whereby Luther was bereft of the gaine hee exspected The truth is it was Aremboldus a Bishop liuing at the Court of Rome whom hauing before been a Merchant of Genoa Magdalen the Popes sister put in trust with this merchandize that appointed the Dominicans to bee the retaylers of these Pardons The Archbishop of Mentz had nothing to doe with it otherwise then to allow and suffer it which occasioned Luther to write to him as to the Bishop of Brandenburgh and to Leo himselfe to represse the impudence of the Pardoners And Luther saith further in one place that the Archbishop vndertooke to giue countenance to this businesse with that condition that the halfe of the prey should goe to the Pope and himselfe might haue the other halfe to pay for his Pall. By these errors heaâ—ed together it may appeare what credit it is like Master Hardings tale be wortâ—y of touching the remnant that of rancour and malice against the Dominicans and because hee was bereaued of that sweet morsell which in hope hee had almost swallowed downe Luther made this stâ—rre A hard thing mee thinks it is for any that liued at that day to set downe what was in Luthers heart what were his hopes his desires rancour and spleene much more for Master Harding most of all for you and mee When the actions of men haue an appearance of good Charitie would hope the best Pietie would reserue the iudgement of the intention to God Let vs come to Caluin touching whom I maruell not much that you say nothing of all that which Bolseck brings against him who being by his meanes chased out of Geneua discouereth as I remember in the verie enetance that hee was requested by some of his good Masters to write against him I once saw the book while I liued in Cambridge it hath no shew of probabilitie that Caluin would goe about to worke a miracle to confirme his doctrine who teacheth that miracles are no sure and sufficient proofe of doctrine I maruell rather that euen in reading Doctor Bancroft Master Hooker and Sarauia all opposites to Calâ—in in the question of Church Discipline and therefore not all the fittest to testifie of him or his actions all late Writers and strangers to the Estate and affaires of Geneua of whom therefore besides their bare word sufficient proofe were to bee required of what they say you not onely receiue whatsoeuer they bring but more then they bring You say they proue what neuer came in their mindes and what is not onely vtterly vntrue but euen vnpossible As that Caluin by his vnquietnes and ambition reuolued the State of Geneua so vniâ—stly expelling and depriuing the Bishop of Geneua and other Temporall Lords of their due obedience and ancient inheritance When as the Bishop and Clergie of Geneua vpon the throwing downe Images there by popular tumult departed in an anger seuen yeeres ere euer Caluin seâ— foot within the gates of that Citie A thing not onely cleere in storie by the Writers of that time and since Sleidan Bodine Caluins Epistles and life but set down by those whom yee cite Master Hooker in his Preface speaking of Caluin Hee fell at length vpon Geneua which Citie the Bishop and Clergie thereof had a little before as some doe affirme forsaken being of likelyhood frighted with the peoples sudden attempt for the abolishment of Popish Religion And a little after At the comming of Caluin thither the forme of their Regiment was popular as it continueth at this day c. Doctor Bancroft The same yeere that Geneua was assaulted viz. by the Duke of Sauoy and the Bishop as he had said before Page 13. which was Anno 1536. Master Caluin came thither If Caluin at his comming found the forme of the gouernment popular If hee came thither the same yeere that the Bishop made war vpon Geneua to recouer his authoritie being indeede either affrighted or hauing forsaken the Towne before how could Caluin expel him And in truth Bodine in his second Booke De Rep. Chapter sixt affirmeth That the same yeere Genoa was established in a State Aristocraticall which was hee saith Anno 1528. Geneua was changed from a Monarchy Pontificall into an Estate Popular gouerned Aristocratically although that long before the Towne pretended to bee free against the Earle and against the Bishop c. What Sarauia hath written touching this point I cannot tell as not hauing his Booke But in Beza his answere to him there is no touch vpon any such thing He ioynes with his complaint of the sacrilegious vsurping Ecclesiasticall goods in answere to his Proême He dissents in that Sarauia accounts the Seniors of the reformed Churches like to that kinde which Saint Ambrose speakes of brought in out of wisdome onely to rule the disorderly Beza saith they were not introducti but reducti Cap. 12. For the rest in all that answere there is nothing of Caluin or any such reuoluing of the state as you accuse him of Which makes mee thinke that herein your memorie deceiued you It may be that in your younger time falling vpon these Authors by occasion of the question of Discipline which was then much tossed ere euer your iudgement were ripened you formed in your minde a false impression of that which they say of Caluin You conceited them out of your zeale in the cause to say more then they do thus possible vnawares receiued the seeds of dislike of the doctrine of Caluin as well as his discipline which haue since taken root in you But you shall doe well to remember the difference you put a little before of these two Christian doctrine is vniforme and euer the same gouernment is changeable in many circumstances according to the exigence of times and persons And euen the same men that write somewhat eagerly against Master Caluin yet giue him the praâ—se of wisdome to see what for that time and state was necessarie Master Hooker saith of him That he thinkes him incomparably the wisest man that euer the French Church did enioy since the houre it enioyed him and of his platforme of discipline after hee hath laid downe the summe of it This deuice I see not how the wisest at that time liuing could haue bettered if wee duely consider what
lesser Orders and Subdeaconship according to the Master of the Sentences were instituted by the Church 3. The Deacons instituted by the Apostles Act. 6. were not Deacons of the Altar but of the Tables Widdowes 4. In Deaconship there seemes to be no certain forme for according to the old Pontificals the laying of hands vpon the Deacon hath no certaine forme of words but that prayer Emitte qâ—aesumus in eos S. Sauctum which according to the new Pontificals is to be said after the imposition of hands For the giuing of the Booke of the Gospels hath indeede a forme of words but that impresseth not the Character for before any Gospell was written the Apostles ordained Deacons by imposition of hands 5. In the Subdeaconship also there is no Pontificall which hath not the matter without forme viz. the deliuery of the emptie Chalice c. These things with more which hee there sets downe he would haue to serue to the instruction of the learned touching the vncertaintie of this whole matter to â—each men to be wise to sobrietie that is euery man to be content with the accustomed Pontificall of the Church wherein he is ordained And if ought be omitted of those things which be added out of the new Pontificals as for example that the Booke of the Epistles was not giuen with those words Take authoritie to reade the Epistles as well for the quicke as the dead there is no neede of supplying this omission by a new ordination for such new additions make no new law Learne then of your owne Caietane that the new additions of deliuery of the Chalice with wine and Paten with Hosts and authoritie to offer sacrifice for the quick and dead make no new Law Learn to be content with the Pontificall of the Church wherein you were ordained Wherein first is verbatim all that which your Pontificals had well taken out of the holy words of our Sauiour Accipe Spiritum Sanctum quorum remisseris peccata remittuntur eis quorum retinueris retenta sunt Which me thinkes you should rather account to containe the essentiall forme of Priesthood then the former both because they are Christs owne words and ioyned with that ceremonie of laying on hands which anciently denominated this whole action and do expresse the worthiest and principallest part of your Commission which the Apostle cals the Ministry of reconciliation 2 Cor. 5. 18. 19. Then because this office is not onely deputed to consecrate the Lords body but also to preach baptize which in your Pontificall is wholly omitted in a larger and more conuenient forme is added out of Saint Paul 1 Cor. 4. 1. and be thou a faithfull dispenser of the word of God and of his holy Sacraments In the name of the Father c. As to that you adde that we offer no sacrifice for the quicke and dead and therefore well may be called Ministers as all lay men are but are no Priests I haue met with sundry that pull this roape as strongly the other way and affirme that because by the very forme of your ordination you are appointed Sacrificers for the quicke and dead well may ye be Masse-Priests as ye are called but Ministers of the New Testament after S. Pauls phrase ye are none For that office stands principally in preaching the word whereof in your ordination there is no word said And as little there is in Scripâ—ure of your sacrifice which makes Christ not to be a Priest after the order of Melchisedech c. with much more to this purpose Where my defence for your Ministrie hath beene this that the forme Receiue the holy Ghost whose sinnes ye remit they are remitted c. doth sufficiently comprehend the authoritie of preaching the Gospell Vse you the same equitie toward vs and tell those hot spirits among you that stand so much vpon formalities of words that to be a dispenser of the word of God and his holy Sacraments is all the dutie of Priesthood And to you I adde further that if you consider well the words of the Master of the Sentences which I vouched before how that which is consecrated of the Priest is called a Sacrifice and oblation because it is a memoriall and representation of the true sacrifice and holy offering made on the altar of the Crosse and ioyne there to that of the Apostle that by that one offering Christ hath perfected for euer them that are sanctified and as he saith in another place through that bloud of his Crosse reconciled vnto God all things whether in earth or in heauen you shall perceiue that we do offer sacrifice for the quick and dead remembring representing mystically offering that sole Sacrifice for the quicke and dead by the which all their fins are meritoriously expiated and desiring that by the same wee and all the Church may obtaine remission of sinnes and all other benefits of Christs passion To the Epilogue therefore of this your last motiue I say in short Sith we haue no neede of Subdeaconship more then the Churches in the Apostles times in truth those whom wee call Clerkes and Sextens performe what is necessarie in this behalfe Sith we haue Canonicall Bishops and lawfull succession Sith we neither want due intention to depute men to Ecclesiasticall functions nor matter or forme in giuing Priesthood deriuing from no man or woman the authoritie of ordination but from Christ the head of he Church yee haue alleadged no sufficient cause why we should not haue true Pastors and consequently a true Church in England CHAP. XII Of the Conclusion Master Waddesworths agonies and protestation c. YEt by these you say and many other arguments you were resolued in your vnderstanding to the contrary It may well be that your vnderstanding out of it owne heedlesse haste as that of our first Parents while it was at the perfectest was induced into errour by resoluing too soone out of seeming arguments and granting too forward assent For surely these which you haue mentioned could not conuince it if it would haue taken the paines to examine them throughly or had the patience to giue vnpartiall hearing to the motiues on the other side Buâ— as if you triumphed in your owne conquest and captiuitie you adde that which passeth yet all that hitherto you haue set downe viz. That the Church of Rome was and is the onely true Church because it alone is Ancient Catholike and Apostolike hauing succession vnitie and visibilitie in all ages and places Is it onely ancient To omit Hierusalem are not that of Antioch where the Disciples were first called Christians and Alexandria Ephesus Corinth and the rest mentioned in the Scriptures ancient also and of Antioch ancienter then Rome Is it Catholike and Apostolike onely Doe not these and manie more hold the Catholike faith receiued from the Apostles as well as the Church of Rome For that it should be the Vniuersall Church is all one as yee would say the part is the
lacke of Succession Bishops true Ordinations Orders Priesthood The fabulous Ordination at the Nags-head examined The Statute 8. Elizabeth Boners sleighting the first Parliament and Doctor Bancrofts answere to Master Alablaster The forme of Priesthood inquired of pag. 139. Chap. XII Of the Conclusion Master Wadesworths agonies and protestation The protestation and resolution of the Author and conceipt of Master Wadesworth and his accompt pag. 158. The Copies of certaine Letters which haue passed betweene Spaine and England in matter of RELIGION Salutem in Crucifiâ—o To the Worshipfull my good friend Mr. WILLIAM BEDEâ—â— c. Master Bedell MY very louing friend After the old plaine fashion I salute you heartily without any new fine complements or affected phrases And by my inquirie vnderstanding of this Bearer that after your being at 〈◊〉 you had passed to Conâ—tantinopâ—e and were returned to Saint 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 and with health I was exceeding glad thereof for I wish you well as to my selfe and hee telling mee further that to morrow God willing he was to depart from hence to imbarke for England and offering me to deliuer my Letters if I would write vnto you I could not omit by these hastie scribled lines to signifie vnto you the continuance of my sincere loue neuer to be blotted out of my brest if you kill it not with vnkindnesse like Master Ioseph Hall neither by distance of place nor successe of time nor difference of Religion For contrarie to the slanders raysed against all because of the offences committed by some wee are not taught by our Catholike Religion either to diminish our naturall obligation to our natiue Countrie or to alter our morall affection to our former friends And although for my change becomming Catholique I did expect of some Reuilers to be termed rather then prooued an Apostata yet I neuer looked for such termes from Master Hall whom I esteemed either my friend or a modester man whose flanting Epistle I haue not answered because I would not foile my hands with a Poeticall Rayler more full with froth of Wordes then substance of Matter and of whom according to his beginning I could not expect any sound Arguments but vaine Flourishes and so much I pray let him know from me if you please Vnto your selfe my good friend who doe vnderstand better then Master Hall what the Doctors in Schooles doe account Apostasie and how it is more and worse then Heresie I doe referre both him and my selfe whether I might not more probably call him Heretike then he terme me at the first dash Apostata but I would abstaine from such biting Satyres And if he or any other will needes fasten vpon me such bitter termes let them first prooue that in all points of faith I haue fallen totally from Christian Religion as did Iulian the Apostata For so is Apostasie described and differenced from Heresie Apostasia est error hâ—minis baptizati contrarius fidei Catholicae ex toto and Haeresis est error pertinax hominis baptizati contrarius â—idei Catholicae ex parte So that hee should haue shewed first my errors in matters of Faith not any error in other Questions but in decreed matters of Faith as Protestants vse to say necessarie vnto saluation Secondly that such errors were maintayned with obstinate pertinâ—cy and pertinacy is where such errors are defended against the consent and determination of the Catholik Church and also knowing that the whole Church teacheth the contrarie to such opinions yet will persist in them and yet further if there bee any doubt he must manifest vnto me which is the Catholique Church Thirdly to make it full Apostasie he should haue conuinced mee to haue swarued and back-slidden as you know the Greeke word signifies like Iulian renouncing his baptisme and forsaken totally all Christian Religion a horrible imputation though false nor so easily prooued as declaymed But I thanke God daily that I am become Catholique as all our Ancestors were till of late yeeres and as the most of Christendome still be at this present day with whom I had rather bee mis-called a Papist a Traytor an Apostata or Idolater or what he will then to remayne a Protestant with them still For in Protestant Religion I could neuer finde vniformitie of a settled faith and â—o no quietnesse of conscience especially for three or foure yeeres before my comming away although by reading studying praying and confeâ—ring I did most carefully and diligently labour to finde it among them But your contrarietie of Sects and opinions of 〈◊〉 Zwinglians Caluinists Protestants 〈◊〉 Cartwrightists and Brownists some of them damning each other many of them auouching their Positions to be matters of Faith for if they made them but Schoole questions of opinion onely they should not so much haue disquieted mee and all these being so contrarie yet euery one pretending Scriptures and arrogating the Holy Ghost in his fauor And aboue all which did most of all trouble me about the deciding of these and all other Controuersies which might arise I could not finde among all these Sects any certaine humane externall Iudge so infallibly to interpret Scriptures and by them and by the assistance of the Holy Ghost so vndoubtedly to define questions of Faith that I could assure my selfe and my soule This Iudge is infallible and to him thou oughtest in conscience to obey and yeeld thy vnderstanding in all his determinations of Faith for he cannot erre in those points And note that I speake now of an externall humane infallible Iudge For I know the Holy Ghost is the Diuine internall and principall Iudge and the Scriptures be the Law or Rule by which that humane externall Iudge must proceede But the Holy Scriptures being often the Matter of Controuersie and somtime questioned which be Scriptures and which bee not they alone of themselues cannot be Iudges and for the Holy Ghost likewise euery one pretending him to bee his Patron how should â— certainly know by whom he speaketh or not For to Men we must goe to learne and not to Angels nor to God himselfe immediately The Head of your Church was the Queene an excellent notable Prince but â— Woman not to speake much lesse to be Iudge in the Church and since a learned King like King Henrie the eight who was the first temporall Prince that euer made himselfe Ex Regio jure Head of the Church in spirâ—tuall matters a new strange Doctrine and therefore iustly condemned by Caluin for monstrous But suppose hee were such a Head yet you all confesse that hee may erre in matters of Faith And so you acknowledge may your Archbishops and Bishops and your whole Clergie in their Conuocation-house euen making Articles and Decrees yea though a Councell of all your Lutherans Calâ—â—â—nists Protestants c. of Germanie France Engiana c. were all ioyned together and should agree all which they neuer will doe to compound and determine the differences among themselues yet by your ordinarie Doctrine of
Common Prayer c. without any particular mention of the booke or forme of ordering Ministers and Bishops Hence grew one doubt whether ordinations and consecrations according to that forme were good in Law or no. Another was Queene Elizabeth in her Letters Patents touching such Consecrations Ordinations had not vsed as may seeme besides other generall words importing the highest authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall the title of Supreame Head as King Henry and King Edward in their like Letters Patents were wont to dâ— that notwithstanding the Act of 35. Hen. 8. after the repeale of the former repeale might seeme though neuer specially reuiued This as I ghosse was another exception to those tâ—at by vertue of those Patents were Consecrated Whereupon the Parliament declares First that the Booke of Common Prayer and such order and formâ— for consecrating of Archbishops andâ— Bishops c. as was set forth in the time of King Edward the Sixth and added thereto and authorised by Parliament shall stand in force and be obserued Secondly That all Acts done by any person about any consecration confirmation oâ— inâ—esting of any elect to the Office or Dignitie of Arch-bishop or Bishop by vertue of the Queenes Letters Patents or Commission since the beginning of her reigne bee goodâ— Thirdly That all that haue beene ordered or consecrated Archbishops Bishops Priests c. after the said forme and order be rightly made ordered and consecrated any Statute Law Canon or other thing to the contrary notwithstanding These were the reasons of that Act which as you see doth not make good the Nags-head-ordination as F. Halywood pretends vnlesse the same were according to the forme in Edward the Sixth dayes His next proofe is that Boâ—er Bishop of London while hee liued alwayes set light by the Statutes of the Parliaments of Queene Elizaboth alleadging that there wanted Bishops without whose consent by the Lawes of the Realme there can no firme Statuee bee made That Boner despised and set not a straw by the Acts of Parliament in Queene Elizabeths time I hold it not impossible and yet there is no other proofe thereof but his bare word and the ancient Confessors tradition of which we heard before Admitting this for certaine there might bee other reasons thereof besides the ordination at the Nags-head The stiffenesse of that man was no lesse in King Edwards time then Queene Elizabeths And indeed the want also of Bishops might be the cause why he little regarded the Acts of her first Parliament For both much about the time of Queene Maries death dyed also Cardinall Poole and sundry other Bishops and of the rest some for their contemptuous behauiour in denying to performe their dutie in the Coronation of the Queene were committed to prison others absented themselues willingly So as it is commonly reported to this day there was none or very few there For as for Doctor Parker and the rest they were not ordained till December 1559. the Parliament was dissolued in the May before So not to stand now to refute Boners conceit that according to our Lawes there could bee no Statutes made in Parliament without Bishops wherein our Parliament men wil rectifie his iudgement F. Halywood was in this report twice deceiued or would deceiue his Reader First that he would make that exception which Boner laid against the first Parliament in Queen Elizabeths time to be true of all the rest Then that he accounts B. Boner to haue excepted against this Parliament because the Bishops there were no Bishops as not canonically ordained where it was because there was no Bishops true or false there at all His last proofe is That D. Bancroft being demanded of M. Alâ—blaster whence their first Bishops receiued their orders answered that hee hoped a Bishop might bee ordained of a Presbyter in time of necessity Silently granting that they were not ordained by any Bishop and therefore saith he the Parliamentary Bishops are without order Episcopall their Ministers also no Priests For Priests are not made but of Bishops whence Hierome Quâ—d facit c. What doth a Bishop sauing ordination which a Presbyter doth not I haue not the meanes to demand of D. Alablaster whether this be true or not Nor yet whether this be all the answere he had of D. Bancroft That I affirme that if it were yet it followes not that D. Bancroft silently granted they had no orders of bishops Vnlesse he that in a false discourse both where propositions be vntrue denies the Maior doth silently grant the Minor Rather he iested at the futilitie of this Argument which admitting all this lying Legend of the Nags-head and more to suppose no ordination by any Bishops had beene euer effected notwithstanding shewes no sufficient reason why there might not be a true consecration and true Ministers made and consequently a true Church in England For indeed necessitie dispences with Gods owne positiue Lawes as our Sauiour shewes in the Gospel much more then with mans and such by Hieromes opinion are the Lawes of the Church touching the difference of Bishops and Presbyters and consequently touching their ordination by Bishops onely Whereof I haue treated more at large in another place for the iustification of other reformed Churches albeit the Church of England needs it not To confirme this Argument it pleaseth F. Halywood to addâ— That King Edward the Sixth tooke away the Catholike rite of ordaining and in stead of it substituted a few Caluinisticall prayers Whom Queene Elizabeth followed c. And this is in effect the same thing which you say when you adde that Couerdale being made Bishop of Exceter in King Edwards time when all Councells and Church Canons were little obserued it is very doubtfull hee was neuer himselfe canonically consecrated and so if hee were no canonicall Bishop hee could not make another canonicall To F. Halywood I would answere that King Edward tooke not away the Catholike rite of ordaining but purged it from a number of idle and superstitious rites prescribed by the Popish Pontifical And the praiers which he scoffes at if they were Caluinisticall sure it was by prophecie for Caluin neuer saw themâ—ill Queene Maries time when by certaine of our English exiles the Booke of Common Prayer was translated and shewed him if he saw them then Some of them as the Let any and the Hymne Veni Creator c. I hope were none of Caluins deuising To you if you name what Councells and Church Canons you meane and make any certaine exception either against Bishop Couerdale or any of the rest as not canonicall Bishops I will endeauour to satisfie you Meane while remember I beseech you that both Law and reason and Religion should induce you in doubtfull things to follow the most fauourable sentence and not rashly out of light surmises to pronounce against a publike and solemne ordination against the Orders conferred successiuely from it against a whole Church Wherein I cannot but commend Doctor Carriers modestie
whole one Citie the world Hath it onely succession where to set aside the inquirie of Doctrine so manie Simoniacks and intruders haue ruled as about fiftie of your Popes together were by your owne mens confession Apostaticall rather then Apostolicall Or Vnitie where there haue beene thirtie Schismes and one of them which endured fiftie yeares long and at last grew into three heads as if they would share among them the triple Crowne And as for diffentions in Doctrine I remit you to Master Doctor Halls peace of Rome wherein hee scores aboue three hundred mentioned in Bellarmine alone aboue threescore in one onely head of Penance out of Nauarrus As to that addition in all ages and places I know not what to make of it nor wherâ—o to refer it Consider I beseech you with your wonted moderation what you say for sure vnlesse you were beguâ—led I had almost said bewitched you could neuer haue resolued to beleeue and professe that which all the world knowes to be as false I had welnigh said as God is true touching the extent of the Romish Church to all ages and places Concerning the agonies you passed I will say onely thus much if being resolued though erroniously that was truth you were withholden from professing it with worldly respects you did well to breake through them all But if besides these there were doubt of the contrarie as me thinks needes must be vnlesse you could satisfie your selfe touching those many and knowne exceptions against the Court of Rome which you could not be ignorant of take heede lest the rest insuing these agonies were not like Sampsons sleeping on Dalâ—lahs knees while the locks of his strength were shauen whereupon the Lord departing from him he was taken by the Philistims had his eyes put out and was made to grinde in the prison But I doe not despaire but your former resolutions shall grow againe And as I doe beleeue your religious asseueration that for very feare of damnation you forsooke vs which makes mee to haue the better hope and opinion of you for that I see you doe so seriously minde that which is the end of our whole life so I desire from my heart the good hope of saluation you haue in your present way may be as happie as your feare I am perswaded was causelesse For my part I call God to record against mine owne soule that both before my going into Italie and since I haue still endeauoured to finde and follow the truth in the points controuerted betweene vs without any earthly respect in the world Neither wanted I faire opportunitie had I seene it on that side easily and with hope of good entertainment to haue adioyned my selfe to the Church of Rome after your example But to vse your words as I shall answere at the dreadfull day of iudgement I neuer saw heard or read any thing which did conuince me nay which did not finally confirme me daily more and more in the perswasion that in these differences it rests on our part Wherein I haue not followed humane coniectures from forraine and outward things as by your leaue mee thinkes you doe in these your motiues whereby I protest to you in the sight of God I am also much comforted and assured in the possession of the truth but the vndoubted voice of God in his word which is more to my conscience then a thousand Topicall Arguments In regard whereof I am no lesse assured that if I should forsake it I should be renounced by our Sauiour before God and his Angels then in the holding it be acknowledged and saued which makes me resolue not onely for no hope if it were of 10000. worlds but by the gracious assistance of God without whom I know I am able to doe nothing for no terrour or torment euer to become a Papist You see what a large distance there is betweene vs in opinion Yet for my part I doe not take vpon me to foreiudge you or anie other that doth not with an euill minde and selfe condemning conscience onely to maintaine a faction differ from that which I am perswaded is the right I account we hold one and the same faith in our Lord and Sauiour Iesus Christ and by him in the blessed Trinitie To his iudgement we stand or fall Incomparably more and of more importance are those things wherein wee agree then those wherin we dissent Let vs follow therefore the things of peace and of mutuall edification If any be otherwise minded then he ought God shall reueale that also to him If any be weake or fallen God is able to raiâ—e him vp And of you good M. Waddesworth and the rest of my Masters and Brethren of that side one thing I would againe desire that according to the Aposiles profession of himselfe you would forbeare to be Lords ouer our Faith nor straightway condemne of heresie our ignorance or lacke of perswasion concerning such things as wee cannot perceiue to be founded in holy Scripture Enioy your owne opinions but make them not Articles of our Faith the analogie whereof is broken as well by addition as subtraction And this selfe same equitie we desire to find in positiue Lawes Orders and Ceremonies Wherein as euerie Church hath full right to prescribe that which is decent and to edification and to reforme abuse so those that are members of each are to follow what is enioyned till by the same authoritie it be reuersed And now to close vp this Account of yours whereof you would haue Doctor Hall and me to be as it were examiners and Auditors Whether it be perfect and allowable or no looke you to it I haue here told you mine opinion of it as directly plainely and freely as I can and as you required fully if not tediously I list not to contend with you about it Satisfie your owne conscience and our common Lord and Master and you shall easily satisfie me Once yet by my aduice review it and cast it ouer againe And if in the particulars you finde you haue taken manie nullities for signifying numbers manie smaller signifiers for greater correct the totall If you finde namely that out of desire of Vnitie and dislike of contention you haue apprehended our diuersities to be more then they are conceiued a necessitie of an externall infallible Iudge where there was none attributed the priuiledge of the Church properly called to that which is visible and mixt If you finde the reformed Churches more charitable the proper note of Chists sheepe The Roman faction more fraudulent and that by publike counsell and of politicke purpose in framing not onely all later writers but some ancient yea the holy Scriptures for their aduantage If you finde you haue mistaken the Protestants doctrine touching inuisibilitie your own also touching vniformitie in matters of Faith If you haue beene misinformed and too haâ—â—ie of credit touching the imputations laid to the beginners of reformation For as touching the want of Succession and the