them-selues to bee Satan's Children that Companie must bee Haereticall But the Church of Rome teacheth Doctrines of Devils and by Devilish Dealing doe verifie them-selues to bee Satan's Children There-fore the Church of Rome is an Haereticall Companie Philomathes In-deede Eubulus your Syllogisme hath a better forme but a much badder matter Eubulus And if I make the matter as good as the forme then all shall holde good where-in yet that I may bee charitablie conceived I meane by the Church of Rome as I haue now more than once signified the Evill in the Bodie not absolutelie the Bodie affected there-with the Papalitie not all who are named Papists not all who haue the Name or Number of the Beast but who haue his Character Philomathes If even thus you make your matter good wee haue lost a Gayne Eubulus Then let vs examine the partes of mine Argument I hope you will admit my Major Philomathes It can not bee denyed It resteth you to prooue your Minor Eubulus My Minor or Assumption chargeth Papalitie or charactarized Papistes with two maligning Markes Doctrines of Devils and Devilish Dealing I will first prooue the one and then the other also That the Church of Rome teacheth Devilish Doctrine I prooue it thus Who forbid Marriage and command to abstayne from Meates which GOD hath ordayned to bee received with Thankes-giving they teach Doctrines of Devils But the Church of Rome forbiddeth Marriage and commandeth to abstayne from Meates which GOD hath ordayned to be received with Thanksgiving There-fore the Church of Rome teacheth Doctrines of Devils Philomathes The Major of your Argument is from Paul and can not bee denyed I distinguish your Minor for if you say that the Church of Rome eyther forbiddeth Marriage absolutelie and as a thing absolutelie and in it selfe damnable or commandeth to abstayne from Meates absolutelie as from thinges absolutelie and in them-selues vncleane which is the forbidding and commanding meaned of the Apostle then is your Assumption false But that the Church of Rome in some respects and to some persons forbiddeth Marriage and in some respects commandeth to abstayne from some Meates I doe not deny But this is not agaynst the Apostle his mynde who prophecied in that place of some ancient Haeretickes in the Primitiue Church who absolutelie damned Marriage and diverse sorts of Meats as in them-selues polluted Eubulus If so serious and hazardous poynts bee well or wyselie put vpon the danger of so cavillatorie a Distinction devysed by Men I report mee to your owne Conscience that others before haue beene in the same sinne and perhaps in some farder degree there-of what doeth that excuse the Romish Church which in anie degree praesumeth to forbid and command that the forbidding and commanding where-of the holie Ghost affirmeth to bee Devilish Is not this to play and that even perilouslie in a serious matter The Church you say doeth not condemne Marriage but the Apostle maketh even the forbidders there-of to bee Devilish Doctors And yet if who are in the flesh are in that to bee condemned by the Apostle's Doctrine how can you absolue your Romish Church of condemning Marriage when shee affirmeth of married persones That they are in the flesh Now where you affirme the Apostle in that Prophesie to haue eyed onlie the ancient Haeretickes absolute condemners of Marriage and Meates all circumstances of the place evince manyfestlie that hee neyther eyed them onlie nor principallie but that also and principallie the holie Ghost eyed your Church of Rome I let this goe that hee speaketh of the latter tymes which yet I am perswaded hath a narrower relation than that where-by I know you will seeke to shift this poynt Hee speaketh there-with of such as by great and cunning Hypocrisie should haue so great place as by Authoritie to forbid and command But it is well knowne that the ancient Haeretickes mayntayners of these Doctrines were in their verie first out-setting exsibilated and abhorred commonlie of all and that both they and their Doctrine soone evanished So as it is playne that so serious a warning of the Apostle is chiefelie in regard of more dangerous Doctours and so farre by Hypocrisie obtayning place and authoritie in the Church as to come prowdlie to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 interdicting and commanding And thus Philomathes all your distinction of myne Assumption is vayne and cavillatorie and so will never vindicate your Romish Church from the guilt of my Conclusion Philomathes Verilie all-bee-it I dare not condemne the Church or suspect rashlie of her in these or anie such poyntes yet I will not deny but that I could haue wished her to haue beene lesse audacious in so perilous a Case and to haue given you lesse advantage agaynst her heere-in But goe forwardes You tooke all-so for to prooue agaynst our Church That by Devilish Dealing they verified them-selues to bee Satan's Children which was the seconde poynt of your mayne Assumption agaynst vs. Eubulus I prooue it thus Who are Liars and Murderers like their father the devill their Dealing is Devilish and they verifie themselues there-by to be the Devils Children But the Church of Rome are Liars and Murderers lyke their Father the Devill There-fore their Dealing is Devilish and they verifie of them-selues that they are Sathan his Children Eriphilus Is this for-sooth the calme Conference you protested for And are you the Man that so farre abhorreth bitter Contention who falleth thus not onelie to Bitternesse but even to open Reproaches and impudent Rayling Did not you in Disputation about Poyntes of Doctrine disallow all personall Criminations Where-in to all and anie Instances which you can bring agaynst vs when we haue opposed as manie and as odious on your side shall not all our Dispute but finish in a foule Flyting Eubulus I haue neyther as yet touched anie man his person or spoken of anie personall Action of Lying and Murdering neyther mynde I by anie such Instances to strengthen mine Assumption howe manie and howe tragicall so-ever I might easilie produce and those of recent Practise So as thus once agayne Eriphilus heate hath made you too hastie What-so-ever Instances you might oppose to mee of our Men in personall Recriminations yet I am sure that you shall never verifie of anie on our side that they teach and by publicke Bookes mayntayne That it is lawfull to lie and to commit Murder So as if I prooue that your ROMANISTES not onelie practize privilie but all-so teach yea and mayntayne openlie That it is lawfull to lie and murder I hope I shall make mine Assumption good and yet never a whit there-fore declyne from the course of a calme Conference and Rules of a lawfull Disputation Eriphilus When you cleare so great a Calumnie then shall I confesse my too great heat in an evill Cause Eubulus Will you not graunt mee Eriphilus that vvho prayse the Arte of Simulation and Dissimulation to bee both good and profitable
great Citie which spirituallie is called Sodome and Aegypt and then the VVhoore was drunken with the Blood of Saynctes and the Beast became whollie of the Dragon's Colour Nowe where vpon this That no opposition was made by them your Man concludeth That there-fore none at all were I pray you Philomathes what kynde of Logicke doe you account it Because in Spayne and Italie no open opposition is made to Poperie are there there-fore no Protestant eyther Pastours or Professours in those partes The future Ages might perhaps bee induced to thinke so because that so the Storie of the Tyme may carrie no-thing beeing recorded but what in common obtayneth in the Tyme But wee who nowe liue would laugh him to heading as an impudent or senselesse Liar who would but denye that even in Rome are hundreths who holde the Pope to bee Antichrist And howe great encowragement so-ever our too great Lenitie giveth them of kything yet would they bee contented that their numbers amongst vs were esteemed but according to their open and advowed opposition When the golden Calfe was set vp in the Wildernesse and that by so common an Apostasie as that Aaron was carryed away with the violent Streame of that Evill it might appeare that none had beene there for the LORD or free of that common Guiltinesse and yet thousands did kythe in the convenient tyme of challenge Were there none true eyther Prophets or Professours in Israel the yeares of Elias lurking And yet who spake publicklie for the Trueth Did not even Elias thinke that all were gone when yet there were an hundreth Prophets in one Caue and seaven thousand true Professours in one and the same Kingdome Shall Tolleration speciallie in perilous tymes conclude approbation of what is tollerated in all the Tolleraters there-of Doeth not Augustine acknowledge in his tyme where-in the Mysterie of Iniquitie was not so farre advanced but that Trueth still obtayned some place in common that for regarde of the CHVRCHES peace they were compelled to tollerate manie thinges which other-wayes they vtterlie mislyked Attour in your Man's Objection is another ridiculous Fallacie by confounding the diverse and distinct tymes and accordinglie the diverse and distinct degrees of growth of that Apostasie in the course of tyme and not distinguishing accordinglie the diverse sortes and degrees of Opponers and of opposition therevnto No Age since the Apostolicke tymes wanted its owne opposition and Opponers according to the degree of Evill all-though they came not to that last and highest degree to which the open discoverie of the Evill in the toppe of all importable and vncurable Impietie did force Men. Loue is ever loath to cast off till all hope bee past And sober Men some-tymes in a laudable judgement some-tymes agayne in weaknesse will even choose often in a prevayling Iniquitie rather to lurke and keepe themselues cleane than with perilous Contestation eyther to disturbe the CHVRCHES Peace or object them-selues to desperate Daungers Which not-with-standing when they perceiue that vvithout playne perill of all Christianitie and imputation to them-selues of betraying the Gospell Peace can no more bee keeped will then rather contest with all hazard than tollerate a clearlie-discovered and a desperatelie-pernicious Mischiefe Shall a Thiefe bee counted no Thiefe but from the tyme of his open Endytement Or shall the first beginninges of injurious Vsurpation on the one part and an vndoubted and cleare Right on the other be reckoned onlie from the first publick poynts of Litiscontestation A Man disposed to Peace will long beare and patientlie expect Reparation of Wronges and even comport with manie injurious Encroachmentes vpon hope that Reason and gentle Admonition will bring the Partie to doe him measure VVho not-with-standing at last perceiving his Adversaries waywardnesse and daylie progresse in wrong doing will then intende playne Action agaynst him for his Right Nowe shall the vsurping and injurious Partie haue in this anie reason where-by eyther to justifie him-selfe or eschew Reparation of all his by-gone Wronges and vsurpation because they were never till then challenged in that manner and degree You may see more heere-of in my TREATISE of our CALLINGES and COMMENTARIE on the REVELATION Philomathes Well let vs goe on Did Saynct Peter's Fayth fayle Eubulus No but if it had what should haue followed there-vpon vnto the Church more than vpon the fall of Iudas What a ridiculous Question is this as if on the standing or falling of anie one Man or what-so-ever number of Men did hang the fall or stabilitie of the Church which is builded neyther on Man nor Men but on that immooueable Rocke which can not fall Yet your Bellarmine confesseth That though the Pope should fall away from Trueth yet the Church should not there-fore fayle Philomathes You who are so quicke a Carper of Aequivocations fall now to the same Play which you reprooue so often in our Poet. For by Peter's Fayth hee doeth not meane that Spirituall Vertue where-with Peter was endewed there-by apprehending CHRIST to Salvation as you would perhaps descrybe it but that Doctrine of Fayth which Peter professed and taught Eubulus Then Philomathes the playing with Aequivocations shal be still your Poet's part for the Lord prayed for the stabilitie of Peter's particular fayth where-of Satan sought to sift him which remayning steadfast was his Victorie in that his Temptation as I haue before signified And if your Man will haue it permitted vnto him by Poeticall Licence agaynst the LORD'S mynde to wrest Scripture and to intitle thus the Doctrine of Fayth yet why is it called Peter's faith more than am 's or Iohn's And why would not your Poet rather according to Scripture speach cal it the Faith of our LORD IESVS CHRIST But in what-so-ever sense giving him that the Fall or Standing of the Church had depended whollie on the fayling or stabilitie of Peter's Fayth could that Fayth bee no other-wayes preserved but in the Church of Rome And shall the fall of Rome conclude that Peter's Fayth and consequentlie CHRIST'S Church is fallen To make this Conclusion infallible your Man must bring a better Argument than a vayne vaunt of a bare personall Succession while in the tyme they are fallen away from Peter's Fayth to the fayth of Simon Magus Philomathes Did the Gates of Hell prevayle Eubulus No but they did so farre assayle and with such successe in GOD His just judgement and wyse permisssion as Satan obtayned a Throne even in the Temple of GOD. Philomathes Did the Salt lose its Savour Eubulus It did so farre lose its Savour in common and such as should haue beene the Salt of the Earth became so vnsavourie that they could serue for nothing but to bee cast out and trodden vnder foot Cast out the Court which is with-out the Temple and mete it not c. yet ever still the LORD had Ministers so seasoned with the Spirit of Light and Grace as they were al-wayes Candle-stickes and Oliues to
you must answere to these Questions Eubulus By a Sonnet one may verie convenientlie giue sentence of a Song and Philadelpbus will but let you see Eriphilus that wee are not so farre borne in despite of all the Muses but that wee could render you as compact Verses as anie your proper Ballad hath in it Yet let it bee as you desire wee will leaue Sonnets a little and come to Syllogismes Philomathes reade on Philomathes Gladlie Thus then hee beginneth I pray thee Protestant beare with mee To aske thee Questions two or three And if an answere thou canst make More of thy counsell I will take Manie and sundrie Sects appeare Now in the Worlde farre and neare The Protestant the Puritane The Calvinist the Zvvingliane The Brovvnists and the Fam'lie of Loue And manie moe which I can prooue And the Romane Fayth truelie Which you doe call Papistrie All these in verie deede Rehearse all Articles in the Creede And ev'rie one of them sayth That their's is the Catholicke Fayth How should I amongst all these Know the Trueth from feigned Lies For ev'rie one confesse IESU Saying that their Faith is true But this is it that I doe seeke To know the Church Catholicke The Communion or the companie Of bolie Men in vnitie Eubulus This hath beene the Question which in all times perverse and ignorant men haue pretended for them as is cleare by these wordes of Chrysostome Homil. 33. in Act. Tom. 3. The Heathen man sayeth I would bee a Christian but I know not to whom I should cleane Manie Debates are amongst you I know not what Doctrine to choose seeing on both sides they pretende Scripture Answere him This maketh much for vs For if wee did say that our Fayth were grounded vpon naturall reasons thou hadst reason to bee troubled but when wee betake vs to the Scriptures which are playne and true thou mayest easilie discerne If anie man agree with Them hee is a Christian and who so oppugneth Them hee is farre from this Rule This same Chrysostome in 2. ad Thessal 2. All things are cleare and playne in divine Scriptures what-so-ever thinges are necessarie are manifest in them Agayne the same Chrysostome in Ioann cap. 10. Homil. 58. The Scriptures leade vs to GOD and open to vs the knowledge of Him they both make and keepe the Sheepe neyther suffer they Wolâ—…es to breake in For as a most strong Doore they debarre Heretickes and place the Godlie in suretie Neyther so beeing wee bee willing shall they ever suffer vs to fall away in Errour Now al-be-it I well might for all answere oppose to your Poet these Passages yet lest you complayne Philomathes that I passe him too slenderlie I take vp the summe of your Man his mayne Question to bee this Amongst so manie diverse Sects all rehearsing the common Creed and each acclayming the Title of the Church hovve and by what Marks we may discerne the true Church of CHRIST from such as falselie doe vsurpe that Title Philomathes You haue exceeding well taken vp the state of the Question And I pray you is it not a necessarie Question and worthie of a carefull consideration Eubulus Yea verilie but in proponing where-of and in answering there-to your Questioneâ—… bewrayeth either want of Care or want of Skill or which is worse want of Conscience For if hee could prooue moe Sectes than hee proponeth as both hee professeth and I confesse hee might why would hee not rather produce them than for malicious vp-making of a number where no number is make them diverse who are but one For everie difference of Opinion maketh not a diverse Sect much lesse doe diverse names of men who disagree in no materiall point Philadelphus You miss-take the matter Eubulus it is not maliciouslie done of him but for Metres sake to make vp his Verses which other-wayes would not haue runne well Eubulus Well this is his least al-be-it even a lourd-Errour But next Philomathes for resolution of his Question if hee had not willinglie set him-selfe to wander out of a right and plaine way so to draw others after him in the darke Mist of drumblie Disputations hee might haue taken the onlie sure and infallible Marke from CHRIST His owne Mouth Who as hee is the onelie LORD of the House great Shepheard of the Sheepe and Bridegroome of the Bryde so can Hee best of anie leade vs to know them rightlie Philomathes That must bee of all other the most certaine Note and I long to heare it Eubulus CHRIST giveth His Sheepe this Marke That they know the voyce of the great Shepheard and follow it and that they will not follow the voyce of a Stranger for they know it not Where-by that is vndoubtedlie the true Church where the voyce of CHRIST and His voyce onelie is purelie preached and religiouslie received If anie man loue Mee bee will keepe My Word and My Father will loue him and Wee will come to him and will dwell with him Hee that loveth Mee not keepeth not My Wordes c. Philomathes This is most true but the Question remaineth still as doubtfull as before for what-so-ever Companie doeth acclaime to it selfe the Title of the Church they no lesse boldlie affirme that they doe heare the voyce of CHRIST so as you haue but cast vs in a new dispute what iâ—… CHRIST His voyce which his true Sheepe doe heare and by hearing where-of they may bee discerned to bee of His Sheepe-folde Eubulus Neyther CHRIST nor His Apostles nor the succeeding Orthodox Fathers haue left place to make question heere-of to anie who wilfullie winketh not for Hee hath left vs His holie Scriptures and commandeth to search them for a Witnesse of Him Now the way to know Him and to know His true Church which is his fulnesse must of necessitie bee one More-over that which maketh the man of GOD wise absolute and perfect to everie good worke must make him wise to discerne the true Church also But the Scriptures make the man of GOD wise absolute and perfect to everie good worke therefore they make him wise to discerne the true Church also So then the Scriptures are CHRIST His voyce and they onlie are now to bee helde for His voyce for In vaine doe men worship sayeth the LORD teaching for Doctrines the Traditions of men And when-so-ever anie Church falleth to heare anie other Voyce or follow anie other Speaker then Shee looketh aside to the Flockes of his Companions and of a faithfull Citie beginneth to become an Harlor And as Ierome pertinentlie speaketh Egredietur è finibus suis Shee transgresseth her owne Limits Your men Philomathes darken all disputation by deceit of Aequivocations and confounding of distinct Considerations and Cases It is a much different thing to discerne the Church of CHRIST in common from Infidels Forraigners And againe in that communitie of the Church to discerne betwixt the true worshippers and the false betwixt the
must first bee assured that it is the Bryde which speaketh and not a masked Harlot vnder that name As for your Objection of Scriptures obscuritie where-vpon by accusing Scripture you would build an excuse of seeking some other Rule it both contumeliouslie taxeth GOD and is also in it selfe sophisticall It is clearlie contumelious agaynst GOD in that CHRIST commanding to search Scripture for a cleare witnessing of Him the holie Ghost affirming by Peter that the word of Scripture is a sure and shyning word by Paul that it is able to make the man of GOD wyse to everie good worke and exhorting all men praysing in all men the diligent reading and meditation there-of there-by to discerne spirites and to prooue what is propounded vnto them that David al-most all-where speaking so divinelie of the playnnesse and power there-of as where-by even a Chylde may learne to addresse his wayes Yet some of your men Philomathes are not ashamed disdaynfullie to call it a Leaden Rule and a Nose of Waxe as if the Almightie and only wyse GOD had not eyther wysely anough or lovinglie provyded for the direction of His House and that men forsooth will or can finde out a more cleare and certayne way But what-so-ever obscuritie had appeared to bee in Scripture or howe vncertayne so-ever the vayne and running Humours of men might appeare to make it by their diversitie of Interpretations yet this should ever haue religiouslietyed vs there-to that our LORD hath left it vs for a Lanterne to our Feete and sole and perpetuall Ground of our Fayth studying therefore with all humilitie cleannesse of heart and earnest prayer to attayne the knowledge there-of and not proudlie and rebelliouslie to take such counsell as did Israell in the Wildernesse Wee know not what is become of this Moses make vs therefore gods to goe before vs. The advyse of Augustine is much more both sound and sober than is that of your Church-men That in reading of Scripture if wee can not take vp the verie genuine sense and meaning of the place at least let vs not expound that place of Scripture in a sense repugning to the Analogie of Fayth So shall wee bee lyke to a man who how-so-ever hee hath aberred from the direct way yet hee wandreth in the Fields leading to the Towne where-at hee would bee I affirmed Philomathes that your Objection of Scriptures obscuritie was also Sophisticall and thus I cleare it All reason of obscuritie must bee eyther in the matter it selfe or in the manner of delyverie or in the weaknesse of their perception to whome it is delyvered Of divine thinges wee acknowledge that how-so-ever for most reall and constant existence they bee of all thinges the most certayne yet that for their retyred eminencie to all creatures of all thinges the most obscure But for the manner of deliverie as GOD in holie Scripture hath revealed them we affirme that all the wisdome and eloquence of all creatures even in a conceived matter could never haue found out so playne a manner or so farre and lovinglie haue attempered it to the capacitie of man as in so high mysteries and a constant remayning Rule of Fayth was possible And yet how-so-ever they bee thus delivered wee acknowledge that no naturall man and naturall onlie is capable of them For they are spirituallie discerned But the spirituall man by the Spirit of GOD in him will discerne the things of GOD. To reason then from the naturall obscuritie or retyred eminencie of the matter to the manner of deliverie or from the weaknesse of man's perception to conclude of the manner of deliverie or from the perception of the naturall man to conclude of the perception of the spirituall man it were al-wayes absurd Sophistication We are bolde to say with the holie Ghost That how-so-ever to most part of men the Mysteries of the Kingdome bee spoken in parables that hearing they may heare and not vnderstand and seeing they may see and not perceiue Yet That Who-so-ever doeth the will of the FATHER they will knowe the Doctrine whether it bee of GOD or whether men speake of them-selues That CHRIST HIS true Sheepe knowe His Voyce and knowe the voyce of a Stranger Wee avouch That the wordes of Wisdome are all playne to him that will vnderstand and straight to him that will finde Knowledge That Scorner seeketh Wisdome and findeth it not but Knowledge is easie to him that will vnderstand So as if the Trueth bee hid it is hid to them whose eyes the Prince of this World hath picked out and whom GOD justlie eyther for misregard or pryde of mynde hath given over to the efficacie of Errour to groape even at noone day Neyther maketh your Sophisticall Objection of diversitie of Interpretation against this for how-so-ever manie particular places in Scripture appeare still difficill and doubtfull to vs which but know in part and prophesie in part yet wee affirme with Augustine That even in those things which are playnlie set downe in Scripture are all things to bee found which contayne Fayth and Rules of living and that nothing almost is ripped out of the most obscure parts which will not bee found in some other place most playnlie spoken Philomathes To grant you even all that you haue sayde either of the plainnesse or plentifulâ—…esse of holie Scripture yet what shall you gaine there-by against our Questioner or how shall you justifie the imputations of want of Care Skill or Conscience layde on him by you seeing both our Church confesseth that the Scripture showeth which bee the true Markes of the Church and such Notes as are heere brought by our man hee prooveth them all from Scripture Eubulus How eyther proper or pertinent your Poet's Markes are which hee bringeth and how well hee prooveth them from Scripture or other-wayes wee shall see GOD willing in the particular examination of each where-by all his Corne shall bee found but Chaffe and that carelessie skillessie or fraudfullie hee hath fled the onelie demonstratiue Marke to seduce the simple with Topicall showes You say your Church acknowledgeth that by Scripture the true Marks of the Church are knowne But Philomathes they fall never to say so but when they are reduced to such straits as eyther they must say it or bee snared For their common Doctrine is well anough knowne which can so little consist with this which you haue now granted as the one evidentlie over-throweth the other For doe not your men make all the authoritie of Scripture to depende so farre on the Church her suffrage as that therefore onlie you are sure such such to be canonicke Scriptures because the Church hath so determined Thus monstrouslie you make one and the same to bee both the Mother and the Daughter and of one Philomathes But thus you taxe Augustine no lesse than vs who affirmeth that hee would not belieue Scripture if the authoritie of the Churh did
vnder Sense and so can bee no Marke at all Sophisticall for that of that which we confesse to be a true Attribute of the Church hee would conclude a discerning Marke But all Attributes are not Markes Now Eriphilus refell mine Argument or graunt mee I pray you some respite from burning for without merite you haue al-readie burned too manie vpon humour Philadelphus You could not away Eriphilus with my Sonnets but as I thinke Eubulus Syllogismes are no lesse pricking Philomathes But I pray you Eubulus how-so-ever your Reasons are subtill and I can not denye but builded vpon confessed Grounds and how-so-ever that Catholicke is an Attribute as you call it of the Church is apprehended by Fayth yet seeing that the moste approoved Fathers in their Disputations agaynst the Heretickes of their tymes doe presse them sore with the Authoritie of the Catholicke Church which they ordinarilie oppose vnto them it would appeare that they had some reason to doe so and that even Vniversalitie is in some respect a Marke of the true Church Neyther see I howe you can disapprooue our Mens Argument agaynst you brought from this Note except you will condemne those Famous and Auncient Fathers also as having vaynlie and sophisticallie reasoned for the Trueth Eubulus To cleare you Philomathes of all doubt heerein and to free our selues from anie eyther conscience of our owne guiltinesse where-fore we would reject this Reason or of anie vnreverend Opinion of those Fathers who as you truelie affirme in some Cases and Respectes did vse it the aequivocation of this word Catholicke must be opened vp where-by your Doctours willinglie illude and where-by your simple ones are vnwittinglie deceived For the Catholicke Church is of the Fathers so called eyther properlie and absolutelie or improperlie and but in some speciall Respect and Relation Absolutelie and most properlie the Catholicke Church is the whole number of what-so-ever tyme or place who haue beene are or shall bee vnited vnto CHRIST their Head and liue in Him by His Spirit whether heere on Earth fighting or hence in Heaven triumphing Absolutelie and lesse properlie the Catholicke Church is the whole militant companie heere on Earth of what-so-ever Kinred Tongue or Nation vnder one and the same common Ensigne of Christian Profession whether Hypocrites or true Professours whether pure or corrupt Worshippers whether Orthodox or Hereticall as even Bellarmine argueth Cap. 7. De Notis Eccles. In anie of which Cases shee is believed and in her Vniversalitie falleth not vnder Sense Improperlie agayne and in opposite Relation the Church is called CATHOLICKE for two Respects The one In opposite Relation to the Church of the Iewes which was limited within the compasse of one People and of one Region the Christian Church no more so confined but spread indifferentlie over all is called the CATHOLICKE CHVRCH Neyther thus because that eyther al-wayes all Peoples Vniversallie or moste parte of Men embrace the Gospell but because the Entrie is opened and offered indifferentlie vnto all The other Respect was the opposite Relation to hereticall Companies separating them-selues by Errour from the common Bodie of the Church Trueth mayntayned there-in And in this last Respect it is that al-most the Fathers cōmonlie speak of it calling the Cōmunitie of the Visible Church retayning Trueth in relation to particular hereticall Companies the CATHOLICKE CHVRCH And in this Sense opposing ordinarilie to arrogant men the Authoritie Multitude Consent Succession c. of the Catholicke Church as you haue alleadged Philomathes But in this manner of the Fathers reasoning two things are carefullie to bee marked whereby the Fathers shall bee found both pertinentlie and prudentlie to haue vsed this Argument where by your men now shall bee seene evidentlie and impudentlie to abuse it The first is that state and condition of the Church wherein this Argument hath place according as it was when the Fathers vsed it The second is what weight or moment the Fathers placed in it The state of the Church then was in common pure holding Trueth and by the force thereof purging or expelling all in-bred or accressing evils or Heresies So as then though by an improper Speach yet the Communalitie of the Church keeping Trueth in relation to a few Declyners might not impertinentlie bee called the Catholicke Church and her authoritie might well haue beene opposed vnto them But who in a plaine contrarie state and condition of the Church when Errour obtaineth in common and Trueth is afflicted and borne downe yet without consideration of the altered State and Condition would still vse the same reason from Multitude and what-so-ever or how-so-ever an obtaining State hee were a ridiculous Sophister confounding diverse and distinct times and cases To reason from the state of the Church in Ephesus where-in evill was not tollerated to the state of the Church in Smirna where-in Heretickes waxed prowde and despysed the abject state of true Professours it were sophisticall but much more sophisticall to reason from the state in Ephesus to the state in Pergamus when the true Church dwelt even where Satan's Throne was knowne to GOD though hid from the worldlie sort To reason from the Woman cloathed with the Sunne treading the Moone and crowned with twelue Starres to the same Woman lurking in the Wildernesse it concludeth not for as in the first Case the Fathers had reason and did wyselie to convince by all Advantages so whyle the Case is clearlie altered according as by Scripture was fore-tolde and Antichrist hath obtayned a Throne even in the Temple when the Evill or Gangrene in the bodie and having even over-gone the Bodie in common will contende agaynst the healthsome remnant then are wee both to leaue improper Speaches and wyselie to distinguish deceitfullie-confounded Tymes and Cases and properlie to pleade That the Gangrene in the Bodie and even affecting and over-going the Bodie in common yet is but an Adherent or accressing Evill in but not of the Bodie and That the healthsome remnant retayning the Lyfe of the Head and by vertue there-of resisting the over-going Gangrene is the true Catholicke Church And this altered Condition of Tyme and of the Church in tyme which maketh the Argument some-tyme pertinentlie vsed to bee nowe ridiculous besides that both SCRIPTVRE hath fore-tolde it the FATHERS did see the working on of it and wee haue aboundantlie often prooved and still offer to prooue it It is cleare also by that other Poynt which I propounded to bee observed in this reasoning of the FATHERS namelie What Weyght or Moment they placed in that same Argument VVhere-in they even professe That they vsed it not as an infallible demonstratiue Marke but as a Motiue vvhich beeing joyned with cleare TRVETH was worthie to bee regarded but which eyther without TRVETH or agaynst TRVETH should carrie no Credite This is evident by Augustine vsing this same Argument agaynst Faustus Manichaeus and opposing the Authoritie of the Catholicke Church Multitude Antiquitie Succession c.
to his bare bragging of the TRVETH Which TRVETH not-with-standing sayeth that Father if you can show so clearlie as it can not bee gayne-sayde it is to bee praeferred to all these thinges where-by I am holden within the Catholicke Church If the name of the Catholicke Church were in this place properlie to bee taken then should Augustine's supposed Case be ridiculous For Trueth can never be found any-where els but within the Catholicke Church taken properlie Where-by it is cleare that the Catholicke Church in this and such other places is taken for the Communalitie of the visible Church which having Trueth should bee regarded But to whose Authoritie not the lesse the cleare Trueth found with never so few Holders is to bee preferred For Wee ought not to consent no not to Catholicke Bishops sayeth the same Father if they holde anie Opinion contrarie to Canonicke Scriptures Where-by is manifest both in what Sense the Fathers reasoned from the Authoritie of the Catholicke Church and what force they placed in that Argument and that how-so-ever by them and in that tyme and case of a Church it was not inconvenientlie vsed yet that now in so farre different a state still to vsurpe it in a lyke manner were extreame impudencie This Chrysostome did both fore-see and gaue warning of it that the altered state of the Church behooved to bring men to a more neare and proper Rule of Examination as in his Testimonies aboue cited is cleare In that how-so-ever before that Heresie obtayned place in the Church and the abhomination of desolation stood also in sanctis Ecclesiae locis in the holie places of the Church manie wayes were to discerne the Church as while Trueth helde place in common was Vniversalitie improperlie taken Multitude Consent Succession c yet now after that hereticall contagion hath infected the Bodie in common no manner of way is to discerne the true Church amidst the corrupted communitie of the Church but onlie the Scriptures You are greatlie deceived Philomathes if you esteeme the Church therefore to bee called CATHOLICKE eyther because al-wayes the moste parte of men shall come in to her and embrace the Profession or yet That of such as come in to her the moste parte shall al-wayes holde the Trueth But Shee is CATHOLICKE because her Gates that are nowe casten open to all Kinreds Tongues and Nations that the righteous Nation may enter in And how-so-ever that neyther most part come in neyther of such as are in her is the most part of her or saved yet all vniversallie who are saved must both bee in her and of her And how-so-ever in her most part keepe not Trueth yet no Trueth is but in her If as your Men are al-readie perceiving and there-vpon are gnawing their Tongues for sorrowe the Trueth preached by vs take in short tyme such successe as the Waters of your Euphrates shall be dryed vp and if Multitude and Consent of Nations shall bee with vs will you there-fore yeelde vs the Title of the Catholicke Church If multitude of Holders bee al-wayes a sure Marke of the true Church how sayeth the Scripture That All shall follow the Beast And you confesse That Antichrist when hee commeth shall obtayne Vniversallie Now if in Antichrist his vsurpation Vniversalitie shall bee no Note of the Church how see you not That verie vnjustlie you lay it al-wayes agaynst vs and That what-so-ever Vniversalitie you can alleadge for your Pope it exeemeth him not from beeing that Antichrist except hee cleare him-selfe by better Defences Thus I hope I haue cleared That wee neyther disprooue the Fathers reasoning agaynst Heretickes in opposing to them the Authoritie of the Catholicke Church and yet that you haue not there-fore anie eyther Right in their Argument or Ground there-vpon to make CATHOLICKE a discerning Marke of the Church So as your man's mayne Proposition so farre as concerneth this Note of Vniversalitie is still sophisticall and vayne But nowe if it were even a discerning Marke as your Men would make it yet let vs trye howe justlie your Church doeth vindicate it to her selfe and let vs examine your Man's mayne Assumption in that part Philadelphus As you haue dressed his Proposition in that part I thinke all labour agaynst his Assumption were ydle For if CATHOLICKE can bee no discerning Marke of the Church no not anie Marke at all as you haue at length and evidentlie evinced how can it bee Romes Marke Eubulus Yet Philadelphus I will omit no-thing where-by I may possiblie induce Eriphilus to take more of my counsell But in refelling this your Man's Assumption of his mayne Argument where-by hee appropriateth to Rome the Title of the Catholicke Church I must protest Eriphilus that it bee no praejudice to my matter that you doe so confidentlie call your selues Catholickes and your Companie the Catholicke Church else if you will haue this your vsurping of that name to carrie anie weight and that therefore you will haue vs to account so of you I desire of you the same aequitablenesse in our Case That because wee both esteeme and call our selues The Catholicke Church and Catholicke Men that therefore you will holde vs for such Or if you consider that an Argument à dici ad esse concludeth not and that there-fore pertinentlie the Logicians place before their Categories the Distinction 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of thinges that are sayde and of thinges that are Then let vs lay aside what eyther you of your selues or wee of our selues doe partiallie speake or arrogantlie arrogate and let vs trye what is true of vs both Philomathes Your Protestation is most aequitable For a bare Clayme except it bee instructed can make no Title Eubulus Then Philomathes in that part of your Poet's Ryme which is inscrybed CATHOLICKE and which you did lastlie reade besides the Proposition which I haue refelled hee assumeth That the Note of Catholicke or Vniversalitie conveaneth properlie to the Church of Rome Which false Assumption hee seeketh to sustayne by foure Reasons the first of which hee concludeth thus What Companie did take in hand and accordinglie first performed the publishing of the Gospell thorow the Worlde and converted all Nations to the Fayth that must bee the Companie to which the Title of CATHOLICKE or VNIVERSALITIE properlie belongeth and that Companie is the Catholicke Church But the Church of Rome onlie did both vnder-take and performe this There-fore the Church of Rome is the Catholicke Church and to her properlie that Note belongeth Now heere some Poëticall inspiration hath transported your man to giue vs such whether a definition or description of Catholicke as till now none ever heard of Wee esteemed as I haue shewed that the Catholicke Church had beene that companie of what-so-ever Tyme Place or Nation which in the communion of one and the same Spirit joyned to their Head CHRIST doe make vp the fulnesse of His mysticall Bodie whether in the Heavens triumphing or as yet heere in their course fighting
in proprietie of Signification Philadelphus You haue Eubulus made this their Sacrifice so vnsavourie that I long to bee from it I pray you what is his fourth Reason Eubulus Because Philadelphus the smell of the Romish Incense I perceiue is to you some-what loathsome for your Refreshment you shall now haue an Argument to laugh at if this may not mooue Eripbilus to count it in vincible Advert then a deadlie Demonstration David sayeth in the eyghteenth Psalme And their sound went thorow all the Earth There-fore the Church of Rome is the Catholicke Church If one were set in scorne to play a part to the Partie's disgrace whom he representeth could he haue fished out thinke you a fyner Argument than this is David in the nynteenth Psalme which some make the eyghteenth showeth how GOD hath in His works so playnlie manifested Him-selfe as no Nation in the world can pretend any excuse of ignorance Paul in his Epistle to the Romanes for taking from obstinate Iewes all excuse of their induration agaynst the Gospell because the same was so playnlie largelie and powerfullie preached he to this ende citeth and verie pertinentlie the wordes of David But I pray you by what Logicke will it follow here-vpon that the Church of Rome is the Catholicke Church more than the Devill and his angels who compasse the Earth continuallie roaring seeking whom they may devour or then the busie Emissaries of Satan who compasse Sea and Land to make a Proselyte and make him doublie the chyld of the Devill We affirme That the Gospell at first was so playnlie and plentifullie offered to the World as that most justlie for the contempt there-of and because men loved Lies better than the Trueth therefore GOD gaue men over to strong delusion effectualnes of error whereby Satan obtained a throne in the Temple all the Earth folowing the Beast And that now again that man of Sinne by the revived light of the Gospell is so clearlie revealed as who will not come out of Babylon are willinglie blynded and worthilie part-takers of her judgements And now Philomathes as I thinke I haue aunswered to all your Rymer's foure Reasons where-by hee would conclude CATHOLICKE to bee a Marke of the Church and proper to Rome If you haue ought to reply speake it other-wayes let vs heare more of your Man his Musicke Philadelphus No but by your leaue Eubulus my Song was first tabled And you shall haue it short For it is in honour of the Church of Rome vvhich is daylie shortening If Catholicke can not a Marke bee counted And shamleslie as if it bee assumed If vaynlie Rome vaunts now of Vertues wonted When shee is but a Carion consumed If ov'r the Sayncts shee proudlie hath presumed Her Sacrifices if they bee but sinne That Mother-Whoore if duelie Shee bee doom'd If all Her Silver turned bee in Tinne If Apostaticke more than Apostolicke Shee claymes vnkyndlie to bee call'd Catholicke Philomathes What-so-ever might bee replyed to you Eubulus yet I will not insist farder at this tyme. But seeing that Philadelphus is so poeticallie disposed as hee must vent his Verses I will sharpen him with a new Subject where-on to meditate his next Sonnet Thus then our Man speaketh of CONTINVANCE CHAPTER IV. CONTINUANCE THis is another Marke most sure The Church of CHRIST must still endure According as our Saviour sayd When for Saynct Peter Hee had prayd Simon thy Fayth shall never fayle The Gates of Hell shall not prevayle The holie Ghost your Comforter Shall remayne with you ever-more And I My Selfe your surest Friend Will bee with you vnto the ende Saynct Paul sayeth the same Speach There shall bee al-wayes Men to preach Apostles Doctors and the lyke Into the Church Catholicke If these bee not the Church of Rome Then will I bee converted soone Eubulus You must not expect of mee Philomathes that I will so vnprofitablie spende tyme as to sift out narrowlie all your Man 's grosse Over-sightes because I eye but the mayne poynt and there-fore you haue not to thinke that eyther I spye no◅ or doe approoue what in him I passe over vntaxed For as heere hee vaynlie and ydlie payneth him-selfe to prooue a poynt which no man will denye That the Church continueth al-wayes So for prooving heere-of to alleadge the particular Promise made to Peter That his Fayth should not fayle hee is ridiculous and sophisticall For in that place the LORD speaketh of Peter's particular Fayth that Spirituall Vertue begotten in him by the holie Ghost which was his Victorie where-by hee over-came in that his temptation and not the Doctrine of Fayth as your Man hath now twyse dotingly expounded As if the Falling or Standing of the Church did hang on anie one particular Man his Apostasie or Stabilitie Hee no lesse audaciouslie fathereth a Lie on the Apostle Paul That al-wayes there shall remayne Apostles in the Church For except hee escape by aequivocation it is most certayne that in the most proper and strict Signification of Apostleship as it was an extraordinarie Function but for a tyme till the Foundation of the Church should bee layde and the Canon closed So how-so-ever others succeeding in Pastorall and ordinarie Offices of the Church and teaching the same Doctrine and so keeping the Foundation layde by them are truelie the Successours of the Apostles Yet that anie did succeede to the Apostleship it is extreamlie false For the Church being constituted extraordinarie Offices ceased as did the extraordinarie Gift and manner of Calling which maketh the Office And I even muze if your owne Men will not judge this your Poet worthie of punishment that will haue Apostles continuing al-wayes plurallie in the Church seeing you all doe account this Dignitie singular to the Pope who onlie now in all the World takes to him-selfe the Monopolie of Apostolicall Benedictiō Philomathes It is the mayne poynt where-in wee would bee resolved For these other things I am not to make Argument Can you al-wayes denye but that CONTINVANCE is a proper Marke of the Church Eubulus It is no more a proper Note of the Church than Colour and Stature are proper Notes of a Man And that I forget not my promise as I come on them one by one to shew the vayne sophistrie of your man's mayne Proposition in all I affirme That as Vniversalitie was foolishlie brought by him for a discerning Marke betwixt Acclaimers so also is this of Continuance not that I deny it to bee an attribute and common accident for certaynlie since her first beginning the Church both hath continued and shall continue al-wayes But doe you holde this good Logicke in your man Philomathes of common accidents to conclude that they are proper Notes and discerning Marks you know that Proprium is but one of diverse kynds of Predication and that what-so-ever is proper to any thing it conveaneth as Schooles speake Omni soli semper that is To all to onlie and al-wayes But
that some Noble partes yet resist the Disease so as the Bodie al-be-it heavilie affected yet dieth not yea getting the true Medicine and Divine Purgation of the Word and Spirit will expell the Evill and notiue Humour and recover Health as Experience hath prooved clearlie in manie Reformed both Churches and Persons Thus Philomathes if in your Assumption you meane by the Church that whole Bodie absolutelie on which that Name was fraudfullie and tyrannicallie imposed then you conclude not your Poynt but deceiue by Aequivocation A dici ad esse from So called and wronglie called to So is confounding that knowne Distinction of Logicke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 where-of I spake before And if by the Church of Rome you signifie the Papalitie and Evill in the Bodie which wee impugne as you must if you evince ought agaynst vs then is your Assumption clearlie false For both before that Evill invaded the Bodie the Bodie was and even at the tyme of the waxing Sore yet still continued brooking some healthsome remnant of Spirituall Sense and Lyfe and now at last by the Medicinall Vertue of the Word and Spirit is recovering Health and destroying the formerlie destroying Disease This will bee yet more cleare by the discoverie of that other Fallacie where-by in this Case of the Churches continuance your Men partlie illude and partlie are illuded For because the Church continueth al-wayes they esteeme and conclude falselie That there-fore shee continueth still in one and the same Condition of Light and Lyfe that is That Trueth and lawfull Worship hath al-wayes helde place and borne swey there-in in common so as what-so-ever Companie or Doctrine most in common obtayned and carried Vogue that was the true Church of CHRIST and the true and Orthodox Fayth And this is most absurdly false and evinced to be so not onlie by evident Experience but also by cleare Scripture For all 〈◊〉 Church Trueth in her hath continued alwayes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 she bene subject to manie Wrestlings Victories Kything 〈◊〉 Eclypses Shee is some-tyme darkened sayth Augustine and is as it were over-clowded with multitude of Offences some-tyme by tranquillitie of tyme quyet free she showeth her selfe some-tyme is covered and troubled with the waues of tribulations and tentations We confesse that the Church hath continued always but not as the presuming Whoore boasteth I sit being a Queene shall see no mourning but oft-tymes afflicted tossed with tempest having no comforter She hath still continued but as a Woman even at first while shee was yet cloathed with the Sunne traveling and crying out with payne next persecuted cruellie thirdly fleeing to the Wildernesse fourthly lurking and fed there while the beast of Satan's power maketh the Earth to follow him by false pretence of the Lambe's horns She hath coÌ„tinued alwayes yet so as sometime while the Earth Sea Fountayns Rivers Starres Sun Moone are eyther first in a great part burnt corrupted made bitter eclypsed or totally at last darkened she consisted of a few secret sealed ones exempted in GOD'S merciful care froÌ„ a common evill Sometime againe she is of a number innumerable with Palms in haÌ„d Her state hath bene sometime as the temple closed in relation to al the holy citie court of the teÌ„ple trodden vnder foot of the Heathen her Pastours some-time few secret ministring within the Temple in sorrow for prevayling Evils yet long without blood-shed as being vnperceived Sometime again vpoÌ„ application of the true measuring Reede for discerning the true Church within the compas of so importable an impietie cruelly murdered barbarouslie intreated eveÌ„ with applause of the World Sometime agayn in greater vigour terrifying their enemies in open view flying thorow the midst of HeaveÌ„ with the ever-lasting Gospell separated from incurable Contagion to come vp hither Sometime as now at last comming so down on the earth as it is all lightened with the glorious shyning of the Gospell Wee know that the true Church hath continued al-wayes Yet so as in a common Apostasie where-by Antichrist obtayned a Throne even in the Temple of GOD and all the Earth followed the Beast receiving his Character Name or Number while to the Beast his wondering Sectators and charactized Slaues it appeared impossible that anie such Companie could bee shee consisted of 144000 secret sealed and chaste ones following the Lambe and having a powerfull and plentifull Dispensation of Grace and a sweet sound of well-tuned Harps al-be-it none could eyther heare or learne their Song but them-selues Finallie wee acknowledge That the Gates of Hell never prevayled or shall prevayle agaynst the Church but yet they haue often assayled her strangelie And thus in what-so-ever sense your Assumption Philomathes That the Church of Rome hath onelie of all Companies in the Worlde for manie Ages retayned the name of CHRIST and anie Worship there-of is eyther deceitfullie sophisticall or evidentlie false And so your Conclusion commeth to nought Philadelphus This poynted Syllogisme of yours Eriphilus Eâ—…bulus hath so blunted as it will scarse serue to pricke a Pudding And if neyther CONTINVANCE can bee a proper Marke of the Church and beeing modified so as it may best seeme to bee one yet is falselie assumed of Rome I see no better Conclusion but that wee let her continue the Mother of Whoordomes and that wee seeke the BRYDE vvhere Shee may bee better found out Of Propers it 's a Propertie that ever Of their owne Subjectes they are surelie sayde Satan shall nev'r CHRIST from His Church dissever Continuance yet can not tho bee made Her proper Marke let see how shee it had The verie moment of her first Creation Some tract of Tyme must bee of force fore-layde Where it is made a proper Praedication This Poynt is al 's accorded amongst Clerks No Common Cases can bee Proper Marks Philomathes Well Eubulus giving you that the Church continued not al-wayes in one and the same Condition of obtayning Trueth and that possiblie Errour might haue prevayled in the whole Church in common but not vniversallie in each within it yet except some visible and seene Companie how small so-ever may bee produced by you who haue professed your Fayth Doctrine to whom you may with anie show of Reason acclayme the Title of the true Bodie so lay over on vs the name and blame of the Sore vvhat is all your reasoning but a poore and verie improbable Paralogisme A posse ad esse as Schooles speake And the poynt of our Syllogisme is not yet so farre blunted as Philadelphus would make it Eubulus To evince the possibilitie it sufficiently meeteth all your Men who agaynst our Demonstrations of GOD His Trueth with vs and the Apostasie of the Church of Rome oppose al-wayes and onlie to vs the impossibilitie that anie such Case should befall the Church So as mine Argument is not as you speake A posse ad esse but of that where-of wee evidentlie
evince the Esse and you denye the Posse to cleare the certayntie of both But I see whither you tende for you come now to vnder-proppe your declyning CONTINVANCE vvith as weake a Warrand of VISIBILITIE vvhich is your Man's next Marke which I haue all-readie so marred with that which hath bene sayd to CONTINVANCE as I shall haue but small a doe to hogh the Proppe that so both may tumble downe in the Dust to-gether Eriphilus I pray you Philomathes goe forward to the Marke of VISIBILITIE vvhich in the Continuance of the Church commeth most fitlie to bee considered And this Marke shall best cleare our Church and make Eubulus to bee seene in all his Subtilties For so shall a Church bee found to haue continued if shee hath continued visible And you will perceiue Eubulus so pintched with this Note as he will vanish away in his Invisibilitie and will giue vs a Church continuing for-sooth a thousand yeares by miere imagination Eubulus If I did so farre distrust our Cause Eriphilus as that I would there-fore seeke to escape by Subtilties why would I haue suffered my selfe and that vnnecessarilie to bee drawne a-side by you to so ydle a Disputation about that where-of it is shame for anie resolved Christian once to make question For how-so-ever that for Philomathes better satisfaction I was and am contented to deale thus yet what a senselesse thing in effect is this That the Trueth of GOD so clearlie revealed and which by anie having Spirituall Eyes is as easilie discerned from Errour as Light is from Darknesse for Man's vayne humour should bee put to this forme and Rule of Tryall That except it may bee cleared where and with whome it hath visiblie continued wee will prowdlie and rebelliouslie reject it Which is no lesse yea much more both ridiculous and vnjust than if the Sunne long lapped vp vnder Clowdes and there-after breaking foorth brightlie should therefore by Dolts bee denyed to bee the true Sunne and that it were but some Counterfeyâ—… and never-before-seene Comet Because for-sooth their weake Eyes had not continuallie perceived all the particular progresse of it VVhereas in anie true Sparkle of a Godlie and Christian Disposition and right Spirituall Wisdome wee should thus reason This is evidentlie the Trueth of GOD and there-fore how-so-ever it hath not appeared to continue or keepe place yet I am certayne that it hath never all-to-gether fayled from amongst GOD His Children An dt his is Haeresie There-fore howe great place so-ever it hath had or how long so-ever it hath borne swey even in the Holie Citie and Court of the Temple yet it is clearlie to bee casten out And in the beginning of our Dispute I layde such Groundes of the Evidencie and Sufficiencie of Holie Scripture for full Resolution in these Poyntes as I might well anough haue excused my selfe from diverting thus vaynlie with you to these Questions eyther of Continuance or Visibilitie if I were in anie such perill by your Praerogatiues in them as you praesume But this cleareth you Eriphilus that you are now come to your strongest piece for anie feare where-of I will not yet so farre vanish as you wiene But even dismasking your Man of this vayne and so-much-vaunted-of Visard of Visibilitie I will GOD willing show him in discerning of GOD His Church to bee visiblie blynde and will not giue you a Church by imagination but continuing all-wayes reallie and visible though not to Mules Philomathes Verilie you make mee though not to vanish yet to wonder at a little That you confesse the true Church to haue beene all-wayes visible and will make me wonder yet more if you performe what you promise For I ever imagined that all your Defence in this Poynt had beene to clayme vnto the Invisibilitie of the Church But you haue sharpened mine Appetite to heare you of this Matter Thus then our Poet speaketh of this Marke CHAPTER V. VISIBLE THis is another Marke most cleare The Church of God must still appeare As a Citie vpon an Hill Shyne and continue still As a light on a Candle-sticke Such is the Church Catholicke Our Saviour sayeth If one offend And will not bee ruled by his Friend Tell the Church without delay And if hee will not then obey Doe thou esteeme such a man An Heathen or a Publicane Is not this the Church where-in wee see Two hundreth Bishops thirtie three To haue succeeded each other Since the tyme of Saynct Peter Shew mee this Marke in you And I will say your Fayth is true If it bee not the Church of Rome Then will I bee converted soone Eubulus This is your Man's third Marke and which you haue brought to beare vp your decaying CONTINVANCE But I say Philomathes that no more can VISIBILITIE bee a proper Marke of the Church than could CONTINVANCE for it is a common accident of all visible creatures So as al-be-it I should yeelde as much of Visibilitie as I confessed of Continuance yet would it but serue for a Negatiue Conclusion agaynst others but for no Affirmatiue Demonstration of your owne Church And thus still thorow all your Man's mayne Proposition prooveth vayne Philomathes I must confesse that Visibilitie no more than Continuance is a proper Note of the Church For you haue clearlie evinced it Yet as out of our Man I framed an Argument before vpon Continuance so nowe I will from Visibilitie even a common Accident as you call it conclude not onlie negatiuelie agaynst your Church but affirmatiuelie of the Church of Rome And I reason thus The Church of CHRIST is al-wayes visible But for manie Ages no Church was visible but the Church of Rome There-fore the Church of Rome is the onlie Church of CHRIST Eubulus Such an affirmatiue Conclusion jumpe as was your former vpon CONTINVANCE by a deceiving consequence vpon the presumed Defectes of others Which as it beguiled you in your CONTINVANCE so will it fayle you here also for it is the verie same And as I so over-threw your Argument from CONTINVANCE that you were fayne to flee to Visibilitie for succour so will I make now the weaknesse of this your Reason from Visibilitie not only visible but even palpable also Where-in yet I will not waste tyme to show how ridiculouslie vainlie and impertinentlie hee laboureth to prooue the Proposition of this his Syllogisme That hath beene oftener showed than hee hath syllables in his Proper Ballad neyther will I insist to expose his follie in bringing bare personall Succession and not that which all orthodox Fathers call the principall and proper succession and but of one particular Church as if it had fayled in all other Churches for stablishing of his Assumption What is true Succession and who are true Successours and how vnjustlie eyther are appropriated or attributed to Rome I haue cleared else-where I come to the point it selfe whereof al-be-it I haue alreadie written at such length as I might bee well excused to referre you
CHAPTER VII HOLYNESSE THIS you say in verie deede When you rehearse the Nicene Creede One Church Catholicke Holie and Apostolicke This is another Marke truelie The Church must bee holie Holie Men holie Service Ceremonies and Sacrifice Sacramentes and holie Dayes Are observed in her al-wayes As for the Sayncts and Martyres all And Virgines which you Saynctes doe call Whose Names are in your Kalendar When lived they and where In what Religion was it they died By whom were they Canonized If it were not the Church of Rome Then shall I bee converted soone If they were not your Companie Then is your Fayth an Haeresie Philadelphus I am against both your Wish and Expectation Eriphilus so farre cheared with your man's Poësie as if it may not trouble your cheare I would aske even chearfullie of you why hee hath passed by the Apostolicke Creede which with some more credite hee might haue cited and where-in hee might haue found al-so the propertie of HOLYNESSE to alleadge the Nicene for if hee thought that this word Apostolicke would haue marred his Metre by making his Lyne a foot longer yet the shortnesse of his immediatelie subsequent verses might haue recompensed that slippe neyther hath hee beene in the rest of this Ryme so squimmish as to stand too praeciselie on footes or halfe footes Eubulus Wee will let this passe Philadelphus for as I protested before I am not to insist in taxing all his absurdities no not in the Matter much lesse in his Metre which is lesse materiall I come to speake of this Marke of Holinesse and before I enter to examine the Man's Logicke I will yeelde this much That this once hee hath fallen on a true Propertie of the Church of CHRIST yea and I will grant thus much more That al-be-it all properties be not Marks because more is requyred for being a proper Marke than onlie to bee a proper Attribute yet that Holinesse is even a proper Marke of CHRIST His Church but where-in the Church of Rome hath as litle and lesse advantage than in anie of the former And for clearing of this Philomathes I must first put out your Man from the Lurking-denne of Aequivocation where-in your Doctours delight to lye and thence to shoote at the Innocent in secret For if by Holinesse bee meaned that sanctified Disposition of the Soule and Affections by the Spirit of Regeneration wrought in all true Christians in that Sense it can bee no Marke because GOD onlie knoweth the Hearts of Men. And wee concluded before with consent of Bellarmine That all Markes must of necessitie fall vnder Sense And agayne if by Holynesse bee meaned that which is seene and exposed to perception in Mens outward carriage according to the Law of Righteousnesse in Manners and common conversation neyther thus can it be a proper Marke of CHRIST HIS true Church For that by the restrayning Vertue of GOD HIS Spirite of Administration even Heathen men and Infideles will appeare in all morall Vertues matcheable to Christians except that wee know that what-so-ever is not of Fayth is sinne Was not Paul vnrebukeable as concerning the Law while yet hee was not onlie no Believer but even a cruell Persecuter al-so Philomathes How-so-ever outward Righteousnesse may not bee a sure Marke of Men considered absolutelie for that fayre carriage which by the restrayning Vertue of the Spirit of Administration will bee even in Heathen men yet as you did in short wordes make answere to your selfe that what is not of Fayth is sinne and that there-fore no Heathen conversation how approoved so-ever can be counted for true Holynesse So amongst Professours of Christianitie I thinke that Holynesse in lyfe and manners must bee a most sure discerning Mark wherby to know the true Church as which must in them bee praesumed to proceede of Fayth And wee are a-searching of such Notes as in the communitie of Christians all acclayming the Title of the Church may discerne the Vpright from the Bastard in that same kynde So as your Objection of Heathen carriage in this case is clearlie the same Sophisme which you may remember that before you taxed in our Men. Eubulus Doe you not knowe Philomathes that even amongst Professoures not only will Hypocrites in all these Outwardes appeare to goe farre beyonde even the moste sincere and single-hearted Christians but even superstitious and corrupt vvorshippers yet in a blynde zeale vvill seeme to keepe more preciselie the vvaye of HOLINESSE and RIGHTEOVSNESSE than who haue more and truer Light And if no more were to leade you to knowe that HOLINESSE in this kynde can bee no Marke this alone might tell it you That your owne Men all-wayes in their Disputes with vs about the true Church Doctrine and Worship doe reject and that justlie all Argumentes brought by vs agaynst anie persons or personall actions of Men. How-so-ever agayne in charging vs they doe forget them-selues so farre as all-wayes to fall to personall and those impudentlie false and vnjust Criminations So as you may see that of necessitie this Marke of HOLINESSE must bee vnderstoode of an holie and lawfull Worship and holie and pure Doctrine And al-be-it I confesse that this can never bee anie-where but that there-with al-so shall bee some number of Names both inwardlie sanctified by the Worde and Spirite and al-so showing foorth their Fayth by their workes yet it is the HOLINESSE of Doctrine and lawfull and pure Worship which is the proper Marke of the true Church and not eyther the inward Sanctification of the Soule which we see not or the onlie outward Manners where-in wee may bee deceived of your Man's Argument I will nowe set it before you that you may see the Force there-of That Companie which onlie hath in it holie Men holie Service Ceremonies Sacrifice Sacraments Dayes c. must bee the Church of GOD. But in the Church of Rome onelie these are to bee found There-fore the Church of Rome is the onelie Church of GOD. Now to grant his Proposition or Major in such Sense as where-in I haue all-readie cleared and you all-so Philomathes haue confessed That onlie it can consist I denye his Assumption or Minor as which is shameleslie false except by the onelie sure and layde-downe Rule hee prooue it Philadelphus You must attende Eubulus the Probation of his Assumption in the next Proper Ballad that happeneth to breake out of the Super-aboundance of his Poēticall Veyne and suspende his Conclusion till then And that in the tyme hee may the more seriouslie set himselfe for it what if from his owne Groundes where-of hee glorieth one should drawe this contrarie Conclusion That Companie which hath turned all the Worship of GOD Who will bee worshipped in Spirit and Trueth in a prophane Histrionicke Farce which teacheth for Doctrines the Traditions of Men ' which burdeneth the Consciences of Christians whom their Lord will haue to be free saith Augustine with innumerable ydle superstitious Ceremonies of Mans inventiō in the multitude whereof all
and call it Prudence and Vertue yea and a good Prudence and affirme That who vse it are to bee praysed those are Teachers of Men to become Liars Eriphilus You will not so easilie as you trow get mee in-trapped with your Interrogatours for there is some even Godlie and prudent Simulation Eubulus I mynde no such Circumvention as you feare but moste playne Dealing for gayning of you more than my Poynt And to showe you howe farre I am from entertayning impertinent Plea I will not now question with you about this howe well anie Simulation may bee made to accord with Prudence and Pietie But let the Instances which I shall produce beare witnesse vvhether they bee such as may escape vnder this your Sconse As for the Position which I haue brought in all the Poyntes there-of your owne Man Martinus Navarrus Aspilcueta vvho hath written a whole Treatise of Aequivocations in Favoures as hee professeth of the Iesuites In Cap. humanae aures 12. Quaest. 5. affirmeth playnleie In d. Cap. humanae Pag. 352. Pag. 349. Et pag. 351. Eriphilus You may perhaps vvrong him in this Imputation But and though anie one such Man hath vvritten so yet ought it not bee counted a common Fault of our CHVRCH Howe manie of your Men mayntayne Poyntes which your CHVRCH yet disadvoweth in common Eubulus If I doe wrong him his Booke and places there-of alleadged by mee will witnesse And that his Doctrine is a just Imputation agaynst your Church is cleare by this That Pope Gregorie the thirteenth approoved and ratified his Doctrine as Sanctam inconcussam holie and stable And besides him Gregorius de Valentia a lesuit Tom. 3. Disput. 5. Quaest. 13. de reo punct 2. calleth AEQVIVOCATION Prudentem Defensionem a wyse Defence The fore-named Navarrus in d cap. humanae aures 22. Quaest. 5. Pag. 348. recordeth and highlie prayseth an Aequivocation vsed by Saynct FRANCIS vvho beeing asked by the Sergeantes persuing after a Murder If such a Murderer had passed that way did put his Handes in his Gowne Slieues and aunswered That hee had not passed that way Vnderstanding with himselfe contrarie to common perception that hee had not passed thorowe his Slieues And the sayde Navarrus addeth even there Hanc Doctrinam de Aequivocationibus fundari in illo insigni facto magni illius Patriarchae FRANCISCI that this Doctrine of Aequivocations is founded vpon that noble Fact of that Great PATRIARCH Saynct FRANCIS Philadelphus Besides that common dislyke which al-most all the other Romane Clergie haue of Iesuites I thinke that the Cordeliers haue heere a proper Quarrell and a most competent Plea and Action agaynst them who thus take vnto them-selues wrongfullie the Craft of AEQVIVOCATION which beeing founded on the noble Act of Saynct FRANCIS should with all reason haue remayned the Propertie of his Familie as accordinglie they were called once commonlie LYING FRIERS till now the Iesuites haue so farre encroached vpon this their Right as that how farre so-ever the Friers bee still set to mayntayne their Title yet the Iesuites doe farre exceede them in all the cunning kyndes of Aequivocation Eubulus It is an vnlucklie Debate where-in the Victors greatest Honour is that there-by hee prooveth to bee the more neare sib vnto Satan But to prosecute my Matter The same Navarrus teacheth that a person accused before a Iudge who proceedeth not juridice lawfullie is not holden to confesse the Trueth but may vse AEQVIVOCATION mentallie reserving within him-selfe some other thing than his wordes doe sound yea eyther in Answere or Oath to his Iudge or Superiour that hee may vse a Bout-gate of Speach Amphibologia whether through a diverse signification of the word or through the diverse intention of the asker and of him that maketh answere and although it bee false according to the meaning of the asker in cap. Ne quis can 22. quaest 2. The same Navarrus instructeth a Witnesse to depone that hee knoweth nothing reserving this within him-selfe no thing that hee is holden to tell And hee giveth the same instruction to Pleaders who are requyred to giue their Oathes de calumnia or of Veritie Pag. 151. Toletus a Iesuit and a Cardinall teacheth these same healthsome Lessons Instruct. sacerd lib. 4. cap. 21. Iacobus Sylvanus aliâs Keller Iesuit teacheth the same Philipp contr Anonymum c. pag. 5. Besides all these Eriphilus doe they not teach men to bee Liars who affirme that no Oath given to an Haereticke or Infidell is to bee keeped And yet this was both inacted and practized in the Councell of Constance Iacobus Simancha Episcopus Pacensis de Catholic institut cap. 46 al-so avoucheth it Conradus Brunus de Haereticis lib. 3. cap. 15 determineth that no Pactions Conventions Lawes Confirmations rescripta where-by Haeretickes obtayne Peace and Securitie ought to bee keeped or counted of anie force or effect Now if wilfull and even purposed Perjurie may bee counted Pietie and if such impudent instructions of disguysing Trueth you esteeme a prudent Simulation Eriphilus I thinke him pittifullie imprudent who hath anie dealing with you Philomathes I beseech you Eubulus no more of this For my part I never lyked of that Doctrine of Aequivocation And I thinke verilie that the Church hath beene evill beholden to those Men what-so-ever they were who haue brought that Blot vpon the Catholicke Fayth Eubulus Then Philomathes of all others the Church is worst beholden to the Pope who hath approved and confirmed and yet still â—…hamelessie mayntayneth that disgracefull Doctrine And you who see the Evill are yet worse than woâ—…st of all beholden to your-selues who in so playnlie a perceived Praevarication yet suffer your selues to bee so sensleslie and miserablie miscarried But how-so-ever I bee in this purpose more playne than pleasant vnto you and that even there-fore I could bee content to speake no more of it who am loath to grieue you in anie thing yet because I promised it to Eriphilus and hee conceived that I could not possiblie cleare such as hee called it a Calumnie I must essay to acquyte my selfe in prooving all-so of your Romanistes the other Poynt and Note of their spirituall Kâ—…nred propounded by mee of Devilish Dealing namelie that they are Murderers and teach men so as well as Liars and thus are Satan's vpright Children Cardinall Baronius in his Epistle agaynst the Venetians speaketh thus The Ministrie of Peter blessed Father is two-folde To feede and to kill according to that Feede my Sheepe and according to that Kill and eate For when the Pope hath to deale with refractarie and averse parties as are the Venetians then Peter is bidden Kill and slay and packe them vp in his Bellie Is not this I pray you reverentlie and rightlie vsed Scripture The same Baronius in his Paraenesis to the Venetians Pag. 9. It resteth O Father the Pope that you draw agaynst Malefactours the Sword of Peter whom to this ende CHRIST appoynted over Kingdomes and Nations Their King-killing Doctrine
the Temple al-be-it long few and labouring in manie Teares and at length cruellie murdered by that vnsavourie and vnsanctified Fellowship Philomathes Was the Bryde out of favour Eubulus Never al-be-it often-tymes the Brydegrome hath had some-what agaynst her while dwelling where Satan's Throne was and keeping even there the Name of Her LORD yet in weaknesse shee tollerated spirituall Fornication Shee was never out of favour yet shee hath beene often afflicted and tossed with tempest having no 〈◊〉 but beaten even of the Watch-men and glad to lurke and to bee fed in the Wildernesse while the masked Whoore with subtill deceit made all the Earth to drinke the Cup of her Abhominations Philomathes VVas the Pillar over-throwne Eubulus No but stood still stable vpon Mount SYON with the Lambe whyle all the Earth was in GOD HIS justice miscarried after the Beast receiving his Name Number or Character And so Philomathes CHRIST'S Promise prooveth true and playne And your Man's Ballad is but vayne Philomathes VVhere haue you beene so long a tyme Eubulus Even where Satan's Throne was and even there keeping the Name of IESVS agaynst the terrour of Blood-shed Philomathes To vvhom did your Light shyne Eubulus To the hundreth fourtie and foure thousand sealed Virgines Followers of the Lambe by the Light shyning before them and seene of them whyle all the Earth depryved of Eyes to see wondered blyndlinges after the Beast vvho there-fore rested not in the common pollution of the holie Citie and Court of the Temple but stepped inwardes to the Temple where were all-wayes Candle-stickes and Oliues Philomathes Where did your principall Pastor sit Eubulus At the Right Hand of the FATHER yet filling all For in anie other this Title were a sacrilegious Vsurpation of CHRIST His Honour Philomathes Who kept your Keyes who fed your Sheepe Eubulus Even those who when all in common had lost the Key of Knowledge and neyther entered them-selues nor suffered others to enter into the Kingdome of Heaven vvere still the true Lightes and Oliues of the Temple and vvho at length by the true Key haue so opened vp and discovered Antichrist his Deceit vnto the long-blynded Worlde as the Beast is going sensiblie to Destruction though the characterized Companie should never so much gnaw their Tongues for Sorrow If the Scrybes and Pharisees to whom CHRIST objected the losse of the Key of Knowledge and shutting of the Kingdome of Heaven had layde over agaynst Him this your Man's Objection and argued there-vpon the fayling of GOD His Church and consequentlie of His manie and great Promises vvould Hee nor soone and easilie haue aunswered That how-so-ever they had so fallen away in common yet GOD still had true both Scrybes and Israelites even in the Bowels of that commonlie corrupted Bodie Philomathes Show some Church that you haue built c. Eubulus A great manie that you haue spilt To your Man Philomathes Destroying is Building and Building is Destroying Vpon and by that Doctrine where-vpon wee build and which wee teach hath the true Church beene builded and instructed all-wayes as by the right Rule of Examination wee haue a thousand tymes evinced and hee who gathereth not with vs but scattereth Philomathes Were all damned eternallie Who were not of your Companie Eriphilus Seeing that without the Church of CHRIST there can bee no Salvation and that you doe take to your selues the Title of the CHVRCH and denye the same vnto the Church of Rome I would gladlie heare Eubulus what you can aunswere to this Question and how you can so vnwynde your selfe there-of as not to fall in some one of these Absurdities namelie That eyther all our Fathers manie hundreth yeares a-goe were damned eternallie and that nowe all-so all Men professing Poperie doe perish or you must acknowledge the Church of Rome to haue beene and yet still to bee the Church of CHRIST in which case your Churches must bee haereticall Eubulus I will aunswere directlie and even categoricallie to your Man's Question and even so clearlie free our selues of all your Absurdities But I must first protest for your patience Eriphilus that you will not start at my first wordes which may perhaps appeare strange vnto you vntill I haue cleared them and there-with haue vnfolded the Deceit of your Man's Question I aunswere then and affirme playnlie That all were damned eternallie who were not of our Companie For there is but one Way one Veritie and one Lyfe And yet it shall neyther followe heere-vpon that all our Fathers in Ages past were damned or that all presentlie called Papistes and professing so doe perish For wee are not so praesumptuouslie audacious Determiners or so vncharitable judgers of other Men as your Men are of vs secluding absolutelie all who die in our Communion from Everlasting Lyfe But it is well that to them all judgement is not committed Neyther yet heere-vpon shall eyther the Church of Rome bee made the Church of CHRIST or our Churches to bee haereticall Companies Eriphilus I will take to mee patience according to your Protestation to attende the clearing of these so evill-consisting Assertions all-bee-it I feare that my patience in this poynt shall neyther beget mee EXPERIENCE nor HOPE Eubulus Who hardlie conceiue HOPE may haplie fall to â—…e ashamed but the aequivocation of this word COMPANY where-in lyeth your Man's Cavlâ—…lation and according vhere-vnto you are also miscâ—…led in the word CHVRCH â—…eeing cleared that where-of you despare to finde the Experience or conâ—…ine the Hope shall bee manifest and certayne to anie who will perceiue and bee perswaded First then I say That all Christian Churches are one Church and all Christian Companies are one Companie vnited at least in one common Profession of the NAME of CHRIST and in one Baptisme beeing all vnder one and the same generall Ensigne and so within one and the same Catholicke Church as the same is absolutelie all-be-it not most properlie taken but not all truelie and properlie of it For within the Catholicke CHVRCH are CHRIST and Antichrist PROTESTANTS and Papists Orthodox and haereticall Christians Now agayne in this one and generall Church and Companie there bee manie diverse Companies as in a great Armie are severall and distinct Bandes discerned by their proper and particular Colours and Cognizanses according as they are divyded each from other and that eyther vnnecessarilie by prydefull and vncharitable Renting of turbulent Men or necessarilie for keeping the cleane and health some partes of the Bodie from the dangerous Contagion of affected parts in that same common Bodie In a diseased naturall Bodie Eriphilus three distinct Considerations offer them-selues to bee observed First the Bodie in it selfe Secondlie the Evill or Disease in the Bodie And thirdlie the Bodie affected with the Evill or Disease The health some Bodie or considered in its owne naturall state is one thing The Bodie affected or diseased is in that consideration another And
over-throwne vs all-so As accordinglie you see howe in all his alleadged Markes hee laboureth to appropriate them so to Rome and there-vpon to conclude of her That shee is the true Church that there-with all-so by a Consequence in his Conceit cleare anough our Churches as defectiue vvere condemned by him And in-deede if hee could possiblie haue well instructed the one vvee had the lesse place to pleade agaynst the other For Romes Iustification should sufficientlie convince vs lyke as the justifying of our Churches showeth her to bee Satan's Synagogue But if I haue made him to bee seene a weake Souldiour for him-selfe it may well bee praesumed that hee will prooue no great Masteries agaynst vs how-so-ever hee assayleth vs with an Armie of Interrogatours if so bee that by the hudgenesse of the number in common the particular imbecillitie of each severallie might bee supplyed And to manifest this vnto you Philomathes in all his Ryme inscrybed HAERETICKS hee racketh his Ingyne to prooue our Churches to bee haereticall even by this mayne Argument To whome the Notes of Haeretickes doe properlie conveane and in whome manyfolde Defectes are found which can not befall the true Church they must of necessitie bee haereticall But to the Protestant Churches the Notes of Haereticks doe properlie conveane and manyfold Defects which can not befall the true Church There-fore the Protestant Churches are haereticall The Major of this Syllogisme is so clearlie true as it can not bee gayne-sayde Howe hee prooveth his Minor wee will trye GOD vvilling when you haue read vnto vs his Verses there-on And first concerning the first poynt of haereticall properties to which I will first make aunswere and there-after with no great a-doe wee will over-turne all his Interrogatours of those Defectes which hee would father vpon our Churches Philomathes Then take heede howe hee descrybeth you CHAPTER VIII HAERETICKES OVR Saviour warnes vs to haue care Of false Prophets to beware That in His Name should come Not sent yet they would runne Thieues not entring by the Doore That kill and steale and keepe a-store Wolues in Sheepes cloathing To kill Soules and steale the Teaching Thistles Thornes corrupted Ground On whom no good Fruit is found Living after their Lusts truelie Whose god is their owne Bellie Dogges Foxes and Masters of Lies That new Sects will devyse Bringing in Dissention And heape to them-selues Perdition These Markes agree with you More than the Pagane Turke or Ievv For they denye the Name of CHRIST And counterfeyt no Christian Priest Eubulus Stay there Philomathes for in these Verses is the probation of that first poynt of his Assumption whereby the Notes of Haeretickes are affirmed of vs and now I pray you advert a deadlie Demonstration where-by you sayde jestinglie that hee descrybeth vs Those Marks given vs to discerne Haeretickes conveane but to such as professe the Name and Worship of CHRIST But you Protestants professe the Name and Worship of CHRIST Therefore these Markes conveane to you and consequentlie you are Haeretickes Now how Cholericke so-ever you take Eriphilus to bee in this Cause yet I will even admit him Iudge of this sad Syllogisme where-by your Poet will prooue vs Haeretickes Would you allow mee Eriphilus to conclude your Ballader a barking Dog thus Barking can conveane but to living and sensitiue Creatures but your Ballader is a living and sensitiue Creature therefore barking conveaneth to him and consequentlie hee is a Dog Eriphilus Hee is verie skillesse in Logicke who knoweth not that of miere Affirmatiues in the second figure no thing can conclude And you but skornfullie afforge to our Man so senselesse a manner of Argumentation Eubulus I am content Eriphilus it be esteemed so of me if bending there-to all your Skill in Logicke you shall bee able out of your Man's Verses to frame anie other forme of Conclusion than that which you say I haue afforged vnto him This is the summe of his last read Verses Such and such are the Notes of Haeretickes which Notes conveane onlie to Men professing CHRIST for to Iewes Turkes and Paganes who denye His Name they can not bee competent But you Protestantes professe the Name of CHRIST and there-fore c. Philomathes Verilie Eriphilus I feare that both our Skills in Logicke shall hardlie finde out a better forme of our Man's wordes where-in Eubulus hath so opened a chyldish over-sight as I can not find wel a Vayle to cover it Eriphilus At worst it is but a fault in forme which in a well-consisting matter may bee soone mended Eubulus But I pray you good Eriphilus though you had a Syllogisme at your owne shaping will you ever finde matter where-of to make it or vs Haeretickes by it in this that we professe CHRISTIANITIE or putting it even to the Racke will it afforde anie reason where-fore to bynde on vs the Notes of Haeretickes more than on the Church of Rome which professeth the Name Worship of CHRIST all-so Except you will bee allowed to reply as one of your Profession one day disputing with mee of Antichrist when I propounded an Argument where-by I concluded that of the Pope in place of resuming the partes of my Reason aunswered mee confusedlie and confidentlie That finde him out as wee could otherwayes the Pope could not possiblie bee once suspected to bee Antichrist for hee is CHRIST HIS Vicar Shall wee bee counted Haeretickes Eriphilus onelie because it pleaseth your Poet so to call vs To whome these Notes doe most fitlie agree let the rightlie-illuminated judge and Hee will judge one day who judgeth righteouslie and whose is all judgement VVee passe verie little to bee judged by your Man yea wee judge not our selues Philadelphus You are too sharpe sighted Eubulus hee hath thought that vnder the sweetnesse of Poesie such a slippe in Logicke might haue easilie beene concealed Eubulus That might haue beene praesumed of Syrens singing vnto Swyne But to leaue the Man with his owne Logicke I would demaund of you Philomathes why in so long an Enumeration of haereticall Notes hee hath passed over those where-by the holie Ghost witnesseth that Haeretickes and of this tyme may bee moste clearlie knowne And what a Conscience doeth it argue to amasse a number where-of the application may breede but jangling and to keepe silence of the moste notifying Notes of all Philadelphus You still mistake the Man Eubulus Charitie beginneth at ones selfe and accordinglie their Poet is so full of Selfe-loue as hee never mynded to produce ought where-by to praejudge his owne cause Philomathes But what are those Notes Eubulus with the fraudulent omission where-of you doe charge our Man Eubulus I will essay by a more formall Syllogisme than hee framed agaynst vs to leade you both to know them and to acknowledge of them that they so nearlie touch your Romish Church as might make your Man thinke they were no Wares for him to exhibite What Companie teacheth Doctrines of Devils and by Devilish Dealing doe verifie