Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	council_n	general_n	infallibility_n	4,531	5	11.6807	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91887	Some few considerations propounded, as so many scruples by Mr. Henry Robinson in a letter to Mr. Iohn Dury upon his epistolary discourse: with Mr. Duryes answer thereunto. VVherein is observable with what overtures of spirit they endeavour to edifie each other, not withstanding their differing judgements and opinions about the Independent and Presbyterian way. Published by a well-willer to peace and truth, in expectation that it may no little conduce, either to the reconciling of such controversies, or to the debating them with lesse noise and bitternesse. Whereunto is annexed another epistolary discourse, written by Mr. John Dury, to a worthy knight, concerning the principles of meditation: from which rules may be gathered to direct men to order their thoughts, so as to finde a resolution of all their doubts.	Robinson, Henry, 1605?-1664?; Dury, John, 1596-1680.; Well-Willer to Peace and Truth.	1646 (1646)	Wing R1679; Thomason E345_1; ESTC R200979	39,103	49

the Ministers thereof to use meanes towards them that the duties which Christ requires may be performed and in case of neglect to presse them by authority to the performance thereof 3. I give them no such inspection over the Churches which is Ecclesiasticall to vindicate and punish faults in fore interiori but only to hinder misdemeanours which are publikely observable 4. The Ministers are bound if it be required of them to give them an account of all their proceedings with all due respect that they may know the order of their wayes in all things because nothing ought to bee done in the darke or concealed from his cognizance As for that which I say of a States conscience that it ought to be like unto the conscience of a good Christian my meaning is that as a Christian in his private sphere must rule himselfe and those that are under him conscionably to Gods glory so the Councell of State is bound in its sphere to doe the like and though this ought to be so yet your inference is not good that therefore any man must resigne his understanding to anothers mans will and conceptions for all this is objected upon a mistake In a word I allow of no dominion over any mans faith or conscience but only as a Ministeriall service according to the Word wherein both the Magistrate and the Church-officer is to learn his duty and thereby Christ is to rule over the State and Church visibly and invisibly in the outward and inward bodily and spirituall relations 6. The sixth observation upon pag. 28 29. is answered already if the case be rightly understood and you will finde your mistake to lie in the civill and spirituall spheres in which the Magistracy and Ministery ought to walk For if they keep each within their own spheres there will never be cause of contest for the spirituall hath no power over the civill government nor the civill over the spirituall as such but only in cases of misdemeanor And in this case only I say that the Magistrate hath power to hinder a people in the choosing of a Teacher when they do it not orderly but tumultuously or when a Minister in a factious and violent manner or otherwise disorderly thrusts himself upon a people he may and ought to take cognizance of the matter and see good order peace kept according to the rules of Ecclesiasticall government Therefore let every Christian in Gods name have his full liberty to try the spirits and to hear all and hold fast that which is good but let him use his liberty orderly and give no just cause of complaint or grievance unto others 7. In your seventh observation upon p. 36. you plead again for the freedome of disputes and to follow that which is best which I never intended to restrain only let it be regular and for the end of edification without vain jangling and confusednesse of strife and passion 8. The eight observation upon p. 30. concerning the power of the Magistrate in Church-matters I will admit if taken in the sense which I have formerly delivered 9. To the ninth observation upon pag. 31. I say that God doth not require that we should walk after any light but that which is the true light which enlightneth every man that cometh into this world therefore all are bound to seek that light and never rest till they finde it It is true that no man can follow any other light but that which seemeth to him to be true according to his measure but thence it doth not follow that wee may strive and contest without end for every thing that to us appeares to be truth the weight of matters is to be considered with discretion and because no man will presume to be infallible the way of proposing our sense of truths ought to be such as may declare that we can bear diffenters and are not unwilling to admit of further light if offered unto us from the Word And although a Synod or Generall Councell hath no infallibility annexed to the Decrees thereof yet there is some difference to be made between the private opinion of one and the consent of many whose praises are in the Churches This consent of many attesting the same matter as a truth doth oblige men that are of an humble Spirit and love not to be wise in themselves to consider things more exactly wherein their judgement differs then otherwise they would do And if they cannot finde light enough to assent unto them yet discretion will require a moderation in dissenting excepting some invincible and demonstratively convincing reasons can be alledged why it is necessary both to dissent and to professe a disagreement and yet in this case the professed disagreement of judgement should be without breach of brotherly love and with the preservation of the unity of the Spirit in matters of undoubted practice for mutuall edification at least so far as in us lieth For the Apostolicall rule Phil. 3. 16. So far a● we are come let us walk by one rule and let us mind the same thing is never to be refused on our part if offered by others nor neglected if it may be obtained how far soever we differ in judgement from others in matters extrafundamentall 10. To the tenth observation upon pag. 32. concerning a brotherly correspondency in a Presbyterie which you allow of so long as it doth continue brotherly I have this to say that I am confident your feares of being driven by rods and staves from your father in heaven will be needlesse For the Presbyterian way doth cease to be Presbyterian if it be not sociall as between confederates who in all things are equall one to another so that all alike judge and all are alike judged and every thing is done by common consent and counsel nor are any rights taken from private Churches but rather confirmed and strengthered to them As for the separation which you call in your opinion just to which for some respects you think your selves forced unto I know not what else to say but that I cannot see how it may be just or lawfull for any to separate from a true Church for causes not laid open to them and for matters extrafundamentall For although I finde things in my Brethren 〈◊〉 which are very offensive to me and might perhaps amount in my opinion to a just cause of separating from them yet before it is lawfull for me actually to separate I am bound in all meeknesse first to beare witnesse of those things unto them and seek redresse thereof letting them see the grievance which they bring unto my conscience and then if they will neither redresse the causes of my grievance nor satisfie my judgement in an orderly way but cast me out from them not at all taking notice of my complaints if I say in dealing thus I be thus dealt withall then I may and not till then be separate So that I am so farre from thinking it lawfull

the spirits and holding fast that which is good if they may not heare such as they apprehend to be sent from Christ and imbrace such doctrines as they take to be saving truths and necessary to their salvation according to that light of reason and understanding in the Scriptures which God hath given them for this very purpose Pag. 36. If those you call common principles whilst you say the Apologists insisting on generalities cannot be brought to triall were demonstrative as you alleadge the Scriptures may bee demonstratively analized P. 4. I should thinke it the worke of some Angell to have it once effected and as well the Apologists as all others who now differ in opinion would quickly grow together into an unity of faith But till then I shall expect that according to the Scriptures there will be heresies and in the mean time conceive that nothing except this demonstrative analizing sacred truth will sooner vanquish them then the suffering them to bee with all possible freedome examined and debated which must necessarily infer the most acknowledged truths themselves to be subject to the same proceeding in that what one man Church or Nation takes to be truth another perhaps accounts no lesse then heresie And if Paul told the Galathians that if a good Angell an Angell from heaven should preach any other Gospell to them then what the Apostles had done before he should be accursed I conceive we may much more try the spirits of mortall men of like passions and infirmities with our selves consequently holding fast what wee finde sound and rejecting what appeares to bee erronious by the touchstone of holy Writ according to our owne reason understanding and faith since we neither may or can judge truly of them no more then see with the eyes of other men by the reason understanding and faith of others neither can I apprehend a third or any meane betwixt these two conditions To Pag. 30. I consesse a dissolved government may often times prove dangerous and fatail to any State both Civill and Ecclesiasticall and yet not so dangerous not fatall as a dominiering over rigid tyrannicall government especially in the spirituall state and both of them are therefore to be regulated according to their bounds and rules If Church discipline and censures will not prevaile on Church members I finde no warrant to flye to Civill but conceive it highly condemned even by that place of Paul where he blames the Corinthians for going to law with one another and that before unbeleevers besides all Civill states account themselves in a manner perfect for their civill condition and constitution As first they are compleat in Lawes they have as many as they will themselves they pretend to understand them fully even to the least jot and every man is bound to know them exactly and keep them in the letter But for spirituall matters we know but in part and therefore ought to reach forth to what is wanting not refusing to lend an eare unto it though tendered by a stammering illiterate tongue of some otherwise despised soule As all truth for the most part even from the beginning hath been discountenanced and rejected upon the first discovery and so much the rather in that the Primitive Christians however weak and ignorant in faith and knowledge the Apostles found them yet had they such amongst them in both respects as far exceeded all others ever since neither have we such infallible teachers like theirs to confirm unto us what we have for truth or adde unto us what is wanting To pag. 31. I must needs confesse the opinion of a greater light is no little deceitfull but doth not God require that we should walk according to such appearing light whether true or false I must be guided by it as it appears unto my selfe and how can God be angry with me for serving him to my power or how can man condemne me for differing from him when I have used all such rationall common principles which he could prescribe to bring me to be of this opinion without prevailing upon my conscience You say well with the Apostle that if any man thinketh he knoweth any thing he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know 1 Cor. 8. 2. and yet a man must be ruled by that which he thus but thinks to know so much lesse ground hath any man to impose what he knowes not for even his knowledge neither is no better upon another who knowing nothing yet knowes as much as himself Nay a Synod Councel or State have so little preemimence in this respect as that we must not look upon them with respect of persons unlesse we will justifie the Church of Rome in their implicit faith Pag. 32. You approve the casting off subjection and absolute obedience unto Episcopacy but would not have dissolved the brotherly corresponcie in a Presbyterie and certainly it should not be but it must then continue brotherly we must run hand in hand like brothers so long as we can keep a good conscience both towards God and man and if afterwards upon just grounds in our opinions for some respects we are forced to separate from them we shall be yet desirous to rest among them that if possibly they may be won by a godly conversation but if like a curst father or imperious Master they endeavour with rods and staves to drive us from our Father and Master which is in heaven or from our native countrey friends and livelihoods they do not only cease to be brotherly but cast away all hopes or possibility of reclaiming us if we were in an error Pap. 34. You make duties of practice no lesse fundamentall in the profession of Christianity then the knowledge of necessary truths according unto which principle I suppose the Apologists ought to be permitted both to practise such duties as they apprehend requisite and not to joyn with such as they esteem superfluous erroneous since both may be no lesse of faith then for one that eateth and another that eateth not whilest both give thanks to God as Paul sayes of them Rom. 14. 6. To pag. 37. As they will not refuse subjection to their own Pastor that hath the charge of their souls so much lesse when what he requires of them be confirmed by the approbation of a Presbyterie other Churches or Brethren but this must be in such things as they may yeeld unto with a good conscience and in case they finde reason for dissenting they are liable only to be censured by their own Church which hath power over them not by any others who have no jurisdiction much lesse authoritative o● compulsative Synods and Assemblies may well be convocated and take counsel debate and seek to vanquish such difficulties as arise without a Majesteriall jurisdiction which neither our Saviour or his Apostles did ever make use of or give command to others to practise it in after ages Christs kingdome was not of this world his body is mysticall and such