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church_n council_n general_n infallibility_n 4,531 5 11.6807 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A41211 An appeal to Scripture & antiquity in the questions of 1. the worship and invocation of saints and angels 2. the worship of images 3. justification by and merit of good works 4. purgatory 5. real presence and half-communion : against the Romanists / by H. Ferne ... Ferne, H. (Henry), 1602-1662. 1665 (1665) Wing F787; ESTC R6643 246,487 512

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a_o appeal_n to_o scripture_n &_o antiquity_n in_o the_o question_n of_o 1._o the_o worship_n and_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n 2._o the_o worship_n of_o image_n 3._o justification_n by_o and_o merit_v of_o good_a work_n 4._o purgatory_n 5._o real_a presence_n and_o half-communion_n against_o the_o romanist_n by_o h._n ferne_n d.d._n late_a bishop_n of_o chester_n london_n print_v for_o r._n royston_n bookseller_n to_o his_o most_o sacred_a majesty_n 1665._o the_o preface_n be_v both_o provoke_v and_o invite_v to_o make_v some_o answer_n to_o mr._n spencer_n book_n of_o scripture_n mistake_v i_o assay_v to_o do_v it_o as_o brief_o as_o i_o can_v and_o it_o be_v needful_a i_o shall_v confine_v myself_o to_o the_o order_n he_o observe_v and_o to_o the_o place_n of_o scripture_n he_o examine_v as_o urge_v by_o protestant_n against_o the_o romish_a doctrine_n and_o practice_n and_o to_o those_o he_o allege_v as_o witness_v for_o it_o but_o see_v he_o boast_v in_o his_o 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but_o commend_v as_o profitable_a why_o then_o shall_v scripture_n be_v so_o oft_o allege_v to_o deceive_v the_o unwary_a why_o be_v they_o retain_v as_o profitable_a when_o experience_n show_v what_o a_o scandal_n be_v thereby_o give_v to_o jew_n and_o turk_n what_o offence_n to_o so_o many_o christian_n as_o protest_v against_o they_o what_o a_o stumble_a block_n to_o their_o own_o people_n expose_v thereby_o to_o the_o danger_n of_o idolatry_n they_o acknowledge_v that_o our_o saviour_n institute_v the_o sacrament_n and_o administer_v it_o in_o both_o kind_n and_o that_o it_o be_v so_o from_o the_o beginning_n receive_v and_o practise_v in_o the_o whole_a church_n yet_o will_v not_o the_o court_n of_o rome_n suffer_v the_o people_n so_o to_o receive_v it_o and_o in_o their_o defence_n of_o this_o half_a communion_n they_o acknowledge_v if_o the_o church_n alter_v any_o thing_n in_o or_o about_o the_o sacrament_n yet_o it_o must_v be_v saluâ_fw-la illorum_fw-la substantia_fw-la 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they_o acknowledge_v the_o mass_n contain_v magnam_fw-la populi_fw-la eruditionem_fw-la great_a edification_n and_o instruction_n for_o the_o people_n yet_o decree_v it_o not_o expedient_a to_o have_v it_o or_o the_o liturgy_n in_o the_o popular_a or_o vulgar_a tongue_n cap._n 8._o but_o if_o the_o court_n of_o rome_n have_v see_v it_o equal_o to_o their_o advantage_n they_o can_v have_v hold_v the_o people_n to_o that_o which_o they_o ought_v viz._n the_o communion_n as_o well_o as_o keep_v all_o their_o priest_n from_o that_o which_o they_o ought_v not_o viz._n marriage_n they_o acknowledge_v that_o justification_n precede_v good_a work_n sos_n 6._o c._n 8._o yet_o deliver_v this_o doctrine_n justify_v by_o work_n gross_o to_o the_o people_n they_o know_v how_o it_o be_v to_o their_o advantage_n and_o in_o the_o 16._o chap._n of_o that_o session_n they_o acknowledge_v the_o grace_n of_o god_n for_o performance_n of_o the_o work_n and_o his_o gracious_a promise_n of_o the_o reward_n yet_o decree_n that_o good_a work_n do_v true_o merit_v add_v to_o this_o their_o mince_n of_o point_n of_o doctrine_n when_o they_o be_v put_v to_o it_o as_o when_o the_o enquiry_n be_v drive_v home_o what_o worship_n be_v due_a to_o saint_n and_o angel_n what_o invocation_n to_o be_v use_v what_o worship_n or_o adoration_n to_o be_v give_v to_o image_n we_o see_v how_o they_o lessen_v it_o and_o seem_v to_o be_v content_v with_o very_o little_a as_o we_o observe_v in_o mr._n spencer_n concession_n upon_o those_o point_n yet_o do_v they_o keep_v up_o the_o practice_n in_o the_o height_n and_o full_a extent_n suffer_v if_o not_o encourage_v the_o people_n to_o perform_v it_o gross_o and_o superstitious_o as_o they_o must_v needs_o do_v be_v uncapable_a of_o such_o nice_a distinction_n as_o be_v use_v to_o excuse_v that_o worship_n so_o when_o they_o be_v put_v to_o it_o in_o the_o point_n of_o satisfaction_n purgatory_n indulgence_n to_o show_v what_o be_v satisfy_v for_o what_o be_v remit_v and_o consequent_o what_o be_v grant_v in_o the_o indulgence_n and_o to_o what_o sort_n of_o person_n they_o be_v force_v to_o bring_v it_o to_o such_o a_o uncertainty_n and_o to_o so_o small_a a_o scantling_n that_o the_o people_n if_o they_o know_v it_o will_v consider_v well_o what_o they_o lay_v out_o that_o way_n before_o they_o part_v with_o it_o but_o these_o point_n be_v so_o in_o gross_a propound_v to_o the_o people_n that_o they_o have_v cause_n to_o think_v as_o general_o they_o do_v they_o be_v by_o these_o satisfaction_n and_o indulgence_n free_v from_o any_o sin_n and_o do_v escape_v thereby_o hell_n fire_n itself_o this_o which_o have_v be_v say_v speak_v concession_n and_o yield_n on_o their_o part_n and_o show_v a_o possibility_n of_o agreement_n and_o that_o some_o fair_a way_n may_v be_v find_v for_o some_o tolerable_a accord_n do_v not_o filthy_a lucre_n get_v by_o those_o point_n and_o the_o exorbitant_a greatness_n of_o papal_a power_n obstruct_v it_o the_o court_n of_o rome_n as_o we_o see_v in_o all_o the_o offer_v make_v for_o reformation_n be_v always_o more_o solicitous_a of_o uphold_v itself_o then_o of_o reform_v the_o church_n of_o advance_v its_o own_o greatness_n then_o of_o promote_a the_o peace_n of_o christendom_n to_o conclude_v the_o peace_n of_o christian_n the_o agreement_n of_o the_o roman_a and_o other_o church_n be_v possible_a if_o 〈◊〉_d e_o possible_a for_o the_o pope_n to_o do_v his_o duty_n or_o christian_a prince_n they_o that_o be_v if_o he_o will_v do_v the_o duty_n of_o a_o bishop_n of_o rome_n or_o prime_a patriarch_n the_o duty_n he_o be_v bind_v to_o swear_v to_o in_o take_v oath_n to_o observe_v the_o canon_n of_o the_o ancient_a general_n council_n which_o prescribe_v the_o bound_n of_o the_o roman_a and_o other_o patriarchal_a jurisdiction_n but_o if_o he_o make_v light_a of_o this_o and_o all_o other_o bond_n of_o duty_n why_o shall_v it_o not_o be_v possible_a for_o christian_a prince_n to_o do_v their_o duty_n in_o reduce_v he_o within_o those_o know_v and_o confess_v bound_n fix_v by_o the_o ancient_a church_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n let_v they_o cease_v to_o reproach_v we_o with_o schism_n till_o he_o return_v to_o his_o station_n where_o he_o may_v receive_v the_o obedience_n due_a to_o he_o by_o those_o ancient_a canon_n let_v they_o rather_o consider_v who_o they_o follow_v in_o all_o his_o transgression_n and_o extravagance_n thereby_o engage_v themselves_o in_o his_o schism_n against_o the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n and_o let_v they_o not_o please_v themselves_o with_o the_o specious_a name_n of_o catholic_n for_o hold_v such_o point_n of_o difference_n from_o other_o christian_n as_o will_v upon_o trial_n appear_v to_o be_v far_o from_o the_o truth_n and_o soundness_n of_o catholic_n doctrine_n and_o to_o make_v this_o appear_v by_o the_o undeniable_a rule_n of_o christian_a verity_n scripture_n and_o catholic_n tradition_n as_o they_o be_v solid_o set_v down_o by_o vincentius_n be_v the_o scope_n and_o purpose_n of_o this_o ensue_a treatise_n if_o any_o of_o their_o master_n shall_v think_v fit_a to_o make_v any_o reply_n let_v he_o do_v it_o not_o as_o one_o carp_a at_o small_a thing_n and_o catch_v at_o seem_a advantage_n but_o as_o one_o real_o intend_v the_o manifestation_n of_o truth_n and_o the_o expedient_n of_o peace_n the_o restore_n of_o which_o throughout_o the_o catholic_n church_n be_v the_o prayer_n of_o h._n ferne._n the_o point_n of_o doctrine_n here_o examine_v i._o of_o the_o worship_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n ii_o of_o the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n iii_o of_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n iv_o of_o justification_n by_o work_n v._o of_o the_o merit_n of_o good_a work_n vi_o of_o purgatory_n vii_o of_o real_a presence_n viii_o of_o communion_n under_o one_o kind_n a_o answer_n to_o mr._n spencer_n book_n entitle_v scripture_n mistake_v by_o the_o protestant_n chap._n i._n the_o first_o point_n of_o the_o worship_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n this_o author_n first_o tell_v we_o introduction_n introduction_n what_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n deliver_v touch_v the_o worship_n and_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n not_o as_o god_n or_o saviour_n but_o as_o creature_n dependent_a on_o god_n and_o christ_n and_o that_o it_o be_v not_o command_v as_o necessary_a but_o commend_v as_o profitable_a and_o this_o to_o disabuse_v vulgar_a protestant_n who_o think_v the_o roman_a church_n teach_v it_o be_v as_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n to_o invoke_v and_o worship_v the_o saint_n as_o to_o invoke_v and_o worship_n christ_n himself_o pag._n 3.4_o the_o council_n indeed_o touch_v this_o point_n wary_o and_o in_o general_a which_o circumspection_n and_o cunning_n we_o find_v use_v in_o most_o of_o the_o decree_n they_o best_o know_v wherefore_o but_o vulgar_a protestant_n be_v not_o abuse_v when_o they_o be_v tell_v that_o according_a to_o the_o practice_n of_o that_o church_n if_o we_o look_v into_o the_o application_n make_v to_o saint_n and_o their_o shrine_n both_o for_o the_o form_n and_o the_o frequency_n there_o appear_v not_o much_o of_o that_o dependency_n on_o christ_n but_o very_o much_o of_o a_o opinion_n connive_v at_o if_o not_o rather_o cherish_v among_o the_o vulgar_a papist_n that_o it_o be_v as_o necessary_a and_o profitable_a if_o not_o more_o to_o invoke_v and_o worship_v they_o than_o christ_n himself_o but_o if_o they_o will_v commend_v this_o as_o profitable_a why_o do_v not_o the_o council_n for_o the_o disabuse_v their_o own_o people_n condemn_v those_o unprofitable_a poisonous_a form_n of_o invocation_n yet_o extant_a in_o their_o book_n and_o use_v in_o their_o church_n why_o have_v it_o not_o yet_o anathematise_v that_o blasphemous_a lady_n psalter_n and_o that_o horrid_a doctrine_n broach_v by_o aquinas_n and_o still_o maintain_v by_o most_o of_o this_o author_n society_n that_o the_o image_n be_v to_o be_v worship_v 5._o worship_v greg._n de_fw-fr val._n in_o th●disput_n vi_fw-la qu._n xi_o punc●o_fw-la 6._o azor._fw-la instit_fw-la mor._n to._n 1._o li._n 9_o c._n 6._o qu._n 5._o with_o the_o same_o worship_n with_o which_o he_o be_v who_o image_n it_o be_v so_o that_o if_o it_o be_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n it_o be_v to_o be_v worship_v with_o divine_a worship_n the_o 22_o the_o bel._n de_fw-fr imaginib_fw-la l._n 2._o c._n 22_o cardinal_n acknowledge_v they_o which_o speak_v so_o be_v force_v to_o use_v distinction_n which_o they_o themselves_o scarce_o understand_v much_o less_o the_o people_n so_o that_o mr._n spencer_n have_v need_n look_v home_o to_o disabuse_v his_o own_o people_n the_o first_o place_n of_o scripture_n matth._n 4.10_o thou_o shall_v worship_v the_o lord_n thy_o god_n and_o he_o only_o shall_v thou_o serve_v numb_a i_o here_o he_o needless_o spend_v time_n in_o show_v that_o worship_n and_o service_n may_v be_v give_v
take_v away_o in_o the_o use_n of_o they_o this_o be_v easy_o say_v and_o pretend_a but_o what_o boot_v it_o when_o people_n be_v teach_v contrary_a to_o the_o commandment_n to_o bow_v down_o and_o worship_n and_o to_o direct_v and_o secure_v they_o in_o it_o do_v hear_v a_o company_n of_o distinction_n bel._n distinction_n vid._n supra_fw-la in_o introduct_n ex_fw-la bel._n they_o understand_v not_o whatever_o therefore_o become_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o that_o doctrine_n now_o to_o be_v examine_v we_o may_v without_o rash_a judgement_n which_o this_o author_n lay_v to_o our_o charge_n pa._n 72._o challenge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o so_o needless_o expose_v her_o people_n to_o the_o peril_n of_o idolatry_n or_o superstition_n in_o this_o and_o other_o point_n of_o worship_n the_o first_o protestant_a position_n say_v he_o be_v that_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o represent_v god_n the_o father_n in_o any_o likeness_n and_o the_o scripture_n be_v deut._n 4.15_o 16._o this_o scripture_n he_o will_v have_v mistake_v and_o misapply_v to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n father_n of_o picture_v god_n the_o father_n pa._n 75._o before_o we_o ask_v his_o reason_n note_v here_o how_o they_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v divide_v in_o this_o point_n fieri_fw-la point_n bel._n de_fw-fr imagine_v l._n 2._o c._n 8._o docent_fw-la imaginem_fw-la dei_fw-la non_fw-la recte_fw-la fieri_fw-la the_o cardinal_n acknowledge_v some_o of_o his_o catholic_n abulensis_n durand_n peresius_n and_o other_o to_o be_v of_o calvin_n opinion_n herein_o that_o a_o image_n of_o god_n be_v not_o right_o and_o lawful_o make_v and_o though_o these_o be_v the_o small_a number_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n special_o since_o the_o jesuit_n arise_v and_o multiply_v yet_o be_v they_o in_o this_o more_o suitable_a to_o the_o ancient_a christian_n who_o have_v no_o image_n of_o god_n as_o minutius_n foelix_n and_o other_o ancient_a writer_n affirm_v now_o see_v this_o author_n reason_n why_o that_o scripture_n be_v mistake_v and_o misapply_v by_o we_o first_o because_o they_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v not_o represent_v god_n by_o any_o image_n direct_o that_o be_v to_o signify_v he_o be_v of_o a_o figure_n or_o shape_n like_o that_o image_n pa._n 27._o nor_o do_v the_o understand_a heathen_n say_v they_o do_v so_o represent_v their_o god_n by_o their_o image_n again_o we_o represent_v god_n say_v he_o only_a historical_o as_o he_o appear_v to_o the_o prophet_n as_o dan._n 7._o the_o ancient_a of_o day_n neither_o be_v it_o forbid_v to_o represent_v he_o as_o he_o please_v to_o represent_v himself_o pa._n 75._o but_o we_o must_v put_v a_o difference_n between_o the_o represent_v of_o a_o vision_n and_o of_o a_o history_n history_n difference_n in_o picture_v of_o a_o vision_n and_o history_n to_o represent_v a_o vision_n in_o which_o god_n almighty_a please_v to_o show_v himself_o to_o the_o eye_n be_v tolerable_a but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n take_v great_a liberty_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o decree_n set_v down_o by_o this_o author_n pa._n 72._o of_o figure_v 24._o figure_v historias_fw-la &_o narrationes_fw-la sacrae_fw-la script_n conc._n trid._n sess_n 24._o history_n and_o passage_n of_o scripture_n in_o which_o god_n do_v not_o show_v himself_o to_o the_o eye_n under_o any_o kind_n of_o figure_n thus_o also_o in_o the_o story_n of_o our_o saviour_n baptism_n they_o figure_v he_o like_o a_o old_a man_n look_v out_o of_o the_o cloud_n when_o as_o they_o only_o hear_v a_o voice_n see_v no_o shape_n so_o in_o the_o story_n of_o creation_n they_o figure_v he_o like_o a_o old_a man_n with_o a_o globe_n in_o his_o hand_n and_o without_o reference_n to_o history_n they_o figure_v the_o trinity_n god_n the_o father_n as_o a_o old_a man_n with_o the_o son_n on_o one_o hand_n &_o holy_a ghost_n in_o shape_n of_o a_o dove_n on_o the_o other_o hand_n his_o hieroglyphical_a figure_v of_o god_n attribute_n as_o of_o providence_n by_o a_o eye_n and_o the_o figurative_a speech_n of_o scripture_n attribute_v hand_n wing_n foot_n to_o god_n almighty_a i_o let_v pass_v as_o altogether_o unfit_a to_o make_v any_o argument_n for_o represent_v god_n by_o a_o image_n neither_o be_v he_o so_o confident_a of_o they_o as_o to_o make_v any_o conclude_a argument_n but_o only_o some_o semblance_n for_o representation_n of_o god_n for_o if_o he_o will_v make_v image_n of_o these_o hieroglyphical_a or_o emblematical_a expression_n they_o will_v not_o prove_v innocent_a image_n which_o according_a to_o his_o own_o definition_n of_o a_o image_n do_v represent_v the_o thing_n as_o they_o be_v in_o themselves_o the_o second_o protestant_n position_n say_v he_o be_v that_o no_o image_n ought_v to_o be_v worship_v the_o scripture_n be_v levit._n 26.1_o exod._n 20.4_o 5._o here_o he_o make_v as_o they_o do_v all_o in_o this_o point_n a_o great_a noise_n about_o the_o word_n and_o translation_n image_n the_o pretend_a distinction_n of_o idol_n and_o image_n to_o amuse_v the_o reader_n in_o examine_v the_o thing_n itself_o spend_v thirty_o page_n upon_o the_o word_n idol_n graven-image_n likeness_n and_o quarrel_v at_o our_o translation_n as_o false_a and_o partial_a for_o say_v he_o no_o word_n in_o the_o first_o text_n signify_v image_n and_o that_o which_o we_o render_v graven-image_n out_o of_o the_o hebrew_n pesel_n every_o where_n signify_v a_o idol_n and_o so_o it_o be_v render_v by_o the_o septuagint_n in_o the_o second_o text_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d idolum_fw-la now_o there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n between_o idol_n and_o image_n for_o a_o image_n be_v the_o representation_n of_o a_o true_a thing_n but_o idol_n a_o representation_n of_o what_o neither_o be_v nor_o can_v be_v as_o he_o who_o make_v or_o use_v it_o intend_v thus_o he_o in_o pa._n 78_o 79_o 80_o 81._o but_o he_o shall_v remember_v that_o in_o the_o first_o text_n the_o septuagint_n have_v it_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o the_o latin_a sculptile_n and_o our_o translation_n then_o do_v due_o render_v it_o graven-image_n also_o that_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d by_o which_o the_o septuagint_n in_o the_o second_o text_n render_v the_o same_o word_n pesel_n do_v general_o imply_v image_n likeness_n representation_n although_o when_o take_v with_o connotation_n of_o idolatrous_a worship_n give_v it_o it_o signify_v a_o idol_n in_o his_o sense_n and_o see_v the_o heathen_a false_a god_n be_v worship_v by_o image_n and_o represent_v statue_n he_o shall_v not_o be_v so_o offend_v that_o we_o in_o render_v those_o text_n put_v in_o the_o word_n image_n well_o let_v the_o text_n run_v as_o render_v in_o their_o latin_a bible_n our_o reason_n and_o argument_n against_o image-worship_n will_v stand_v firm_a it_o be_v but_o the_o simple_a truth_n which_o all_o antiquity_n for_o 600._o year_n according_a to_o scripture_n assert_v and_o after_o the_o cardinal_n who_o this_o author_n follow_v have_v labour_v so_o much_o in_o his_o conceit_a difference_n between_o idol_n and_o image_n he_o be_v force_v to_o admit_v that_o which_o deface_v it_o as_o this_o author_n we_o shall_v see_v be_v content_a to_o do_v in_o acknowledge_v any_o image_n may_v be_v make_v a_o idol_n by_o the_o worship_n give_v it_o that_o the_o prohibition_n of_o the_o commandment_n concern_v only_o heathen_a idol_n commandment_n the_o prohibition_n of_o the_o commandment_n be_v the_o device_n of_o the_o goodly_a second_o council_n of_o nice_a after_o the_o year_n 700._o which_o council_n to_o introduce_v or_o defend_v the_o image-worship_n then_o begin_v so_o gross_o abuse_v both_o the_o word_n of_o scripture_n and_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n they_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n see_v themselves_o concern_v for_o the_o maintain_n of_o their_o image-worship_n to_o defend_v that_o hold_n and_o in_o order_n to_o that_o conceive_v it_o necessary_a to_o make_v such_o a_o distinction_n between_o idol_n and_o image_n as_o may_v seem_v to_o clear_v their_o image_n and_o statue_n from_o the_o prohibition_n of_o the_o commandment_n and_o leave_v only_o that_o which_o they_o call_v a_o idol_n under_o it_o upon_o his_o long_a descant_n upon_o the_o word_n we_o may_v note_v 1._o this_o their_o acception_n of_o the_o word_n idol_n restrain_v it_o to_o the_o visible_a thing_n represent_v and_o such_o be_v pesel_n the_o grave_a image_n statue_n pillar_n forbid_v in_o those_o text_n whereas_o the_o thing_n represent_v or_o the_o repute_a deity_n baal_n jupiter_n diana_n be_v idol_n too_o and_o the_o main_a one_o and_o they_o that_o pray_v or_o offer_v sacrifice_n to_o they_o without_o sight_n or_o presence_n of_o their_o representation_n or_o grave_a image_n be_v idolater_n by_o the_o first_o commandment_n and_o this_o note_n be_v necessary_a for_o distinction_n of_o the_o first_o 12._o first_o ut_fw-la infra_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 12._o and_o second_o commandment_n
vnum_fw-la quid_fw-la as_o it_o be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o thing_n uniri_fw-la thing_n valen_n disput_fw-la 6._o in_o 3._o tho._n punct_a 1._o sect._n 19_o christum_fw-la &_o illa_fw-la accidentia_fw-la in_o eucharistia_n veer_fw-mi proprie_fw-la formaliter_fw-la inter_fw-la se_fw-la uniri_fw-la greg._n de_fw-fr val._n prove_v christ_n and_o those_o accident_n to_o be_v true_o proper_o formal_o unite_v from_o hence_o as_o i_o say_v many_o inconvenience_n follow_v for_o what_o happen_v to_o the_o species_n must_v also_o to_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n three_o if_o we_o consider_v this_o with_o reference_n to_o the_o sacrament_n we_o may_v well_o put_v the_o question_n how_o can_v accident_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n without_o their_o proper_a subject_n how_o can_v they_o supply_v the_o purpose_n of_o the_o sacrament_n as_o to_o the_o outward_a part_n of_o it_o without_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n or_o if_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n under_o the_o species_n must_v supply_v the_o defect_n of_o their_o proper_a subject_n or_o substance_n as_o his_o answer_v by_o the_o personality_n of_o our_o saviour_n must_v imply_v then_o must_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n supply_v the_o place_n and_o property_n of_o the_o outward_a part_n of_o the_o sacrament_n which_o be_v most_o absurd_a by_o this_o of_o the_o personality_n of_o our_o saviour_n he_o serve_v himself_o in_o answer_v the_o eight_o question_n and_o the_o three_o last_o but_o the_o disparity_n be_v evident_a for_o the_o personality_n of_o the_o divine_a nature_n may_v supply_v the_o defect_n of_o it_o in_o the_o humane_a by_o reason_n of_o the_o hypostatical_a union_n which_o join_v the_o humane_a nature_n to_o the_o divine_a but_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n can_v neither_o be_v unite_v to_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n in_o such_o a_o manner_n as_o to_o make_v it_o supply_v the_o defect_n of_o their_o proper_a subject_n neither_o be_v apt_a to_o supply_v the_o property_n of_o that_o subject_n or_o outward_a element_n of_o the_o sacrament_n as_o we_o note_v above_o yet_o do_v mr._n spencer_n by_o his_o answer_n suppose_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o our_o saviour_n to_o supply_v all_o and_o the_o romish_a writer_n by_o that_o strict_a union_n which_o they_o suppose_v to_o be_v between_o his_o body_n and_o the_o species_n make_v it_o subject_a to_o many_o inconvenience_n to_o the_o question_n how_o can_v the_o same_o body_n be_v in_o several_a place_n at_o once_o place_n same_o body_n in_o several_a place_n he_o return_v this_o question_n as_o satisfactory_a how_o can_v the_o soul_n or_o a_o angel_n or_o god_n be_v at_o the_o same_o time_n in_o many_o place_n but_o any_o one_o may_v see_v the_o disparity_n between_o the_o property_n and_o condition_n of_o a_o body_n and_o of_o a_o spirit_n and_o consequent_o the_o unsatisfactoriness_n of_o his_o answer_n nor_o be_v it_o true_a which_o he_o here_o must_v suppose_v that_o a_o soul_n can_v be_v in_o several_a body_n distant_a one_o from_o other_o or_o a_o angel_n in_o distant_a place_n at_o once_o therefore_o they_o be_v force_v to_o take_v in_o god_n property_n of_o be_v present_a in_o many_o place_n loco_fw-la l_o 3_o c_o 4._o de_fw-fr enchar_n quomdo_fw-la deus_fw-la est_fw-la in_o loco_fw-la mr._n spencer_n learn_v it_o of_o the_o cardinal_n affirm_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v in_o place_n as_o god_n be_v to_o that_o of_o penetration_n of_o part_n if_o our_o saviour_n body_n shall_v be_v contain_v in_o the_o least_o part_n or_o crumb_n of_o the_o host_n dimension_n penetration_n of_o dimension_n he_o answer_v by_o our_o saviour_n body_n pass_v through_o the_o door_n and_o through_o his_o mother_n womb_n both_o be_v shut_v but_o it_o be_v no_o where_o say_v they_o remain_v absolute_o shut_v 6._o shut_v in_o 4._o scent_n do_v in_o 44._o qu._n 6._o durand_n show_v how_o with_o more_o reason_n it_o may_v be_v say_v our_o saviour_n come_v in_o the_o door_n open_v to_o he_o unperceived_a by_o his_o disciple_n for_o it_o be_v not_o say_v say_v he_o that_o he_o come_v in_o per_fw-la januas_fw-la clausas_fw-la but_o januis_fw-la clausis_fw-la not_o through_o the_o shut_v door_n but_o the_o door_n be_v shut_v and_o for_o his_o passage_n through_o his_o mother_n womb_n it_o be_v shut_v the_o scripture_n put_v he_o among_o the_o first_o bear_v that_o open_v the_o womb_n and_o though_o the_o father_n often_o speak_v of_o the_o womb_n be_v shut_v yet_o be_v it_o only_o to_o deny_v such_o a_o open_n of_o the_o womb_n as_o be_v injurious_a to_o her_o virginity_n and_o much_o to_o this_o purpose_n durand_n show_v in_o the_o place_n above_o cite_v may_v be_v say_v of_o our_o saviour_n come_n out_o of_o the_o womb_n cite_v saint_n aug._n ambr._n greg._n another_o objection_n p._n 308._o if_o our_o saviour_n flesh_n and_o blood_n be_v real_o in_o the_o sacrament_n indignity_n our_o saviour_n body_n expose_v to_o indignity_n then_o may_v cat_n and_o rat_n eat_v it_o this_o objection_n be_v not_o careful_o express_v for_o such_o inconvenience_n do_v not_o follow_v upon_o a_o real_a presence_n but_o such_o a_o presence_n as_o the_o romanist_n fancy_n which_o bind_v his_o body_n and_o blood_n to_o the_o species_n and_o so_o make_v it_o liable_a to_o all_o the_o indignity_n which_o happen_v to_o they_o but_o see_v how_o he_o will_v answer_v it_o by_o the_o like_a as_o he_o suppose_v if_o the_o flesh_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n say_v he_o be_v real_o in_o the_o passion_n then_o may_v dog_n eat_v his_o blood_n that_o be_v shed_v as_o if_o it_o be_v alike_o what_o be_v do_v to_o his_o passable_a body_n appoint_v then_o to_o suffer_v and_o do_v now_o to_o his_o glorious_a body_n all_o the_o disgrace_n and_o indignity_n that_o be_v do_v or_o can_v happen_v unto_o he_o then_o be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o work_n he_o come_v about_o viz._n to_o redeem_v we_o by_o suffer_v and_o whatever_o become_v of_o that_o precious_a blood_n that_o be_v shed_v it_o have_v notwithstanding_o its_o due_a effect_n for_o our_o redemption_n but_o now_o to_o expose_v his_o glorious_a body_n to_o such_o indignity_n as_o they_o do_v by_o unite_n it_o so_o to_o the_o species_n do_v not_o beseem_v christian_n the_o next_o objection_n or_o question_n if_o there_o be_v so_o many_o miracle_n as_o you_o must_v hold_v wrought_v in_o the_o sacrament_n lessy_a multiply_v of_o miracle_n need_v lessy_a why_o be_v none_o of_o they_o see_v he_o answer_v by_o another_o question_n if_o there_o be_v so_o many_o miracle_n wrought_v in_o the_o incarnation_n of_o our_o saviour_n why_o be_v none_o of_o they_o see_v p._n 309._o but_o great_a disparity_n here_o for_o albeit_o the_o miraculous_a incarnation_n of_o our_o saviour_n be_v secret_a and_o unseen_a in_o the_o work_n of_o it_o yet_o see_v and_o apparent_a enough_o in_o the_o effect_n wrought_v again_o the_o nature_n of_o that_o mystery_n require_v it_o shall_v be_v secret_a in_o the_o work_n but_o for_o our_o believe_v it_o the_o word_n do_v sufficient_o attest_v it_o and_o the_o thing_n or_o work_n wrought_v be_v sufficient_o evident_a therefore_o s._n jo._n say_v c._n 1.14_o the_o word_n be_v make_v flesh_n and_o dwell_v among_o we_o and_o we_o see_v his_o glory_n etc._n etc._n nothing_o like_o in_o the_o sacrament_n notwithstanding_o that_o the_o nature_n of_o sacrament_n require_v all_o be_v do_v to_o the_o sense_n for_o confirmation_n and_o as_o nothing_o appear_v of_o all_o the_o suppose_a miracle_n so_o nor_o do_v the_o word_n of_o god_n plain_o attest_v any_o of_o they_o so_o destitute_a be_v their_o way_n of_o transubstantiation_n of_o any_o just_a proof_n or_o evidence_n chap._n viii_o against_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n deliver_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n and_o here_o prefix_v by_o mr._n spencer_n carry_v its_o condemnation_n in_o the_o forehead_n point_n the_o boldness_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o this_o point_n acknowledge_v that_o our_o saviour_n institute_v and_o administer_v in_o both_o kind_n and_o that_o the_o use_n of_o both_o kind_n be_v frequent_a might_n have_v say_v constant_a in_o the_o begin_n of_o christian_a religion_n may_v have_v say_v for_o 1200._o year_n after_o the_o begin_n of_o christian_a religion_n yet_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o approve_v the_o contrary_a practice_n and_o to_o plead_v for_o it_o a_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n about_o the_o sacrament_n to_o make_v a_o change_n saluâ_fw-la substantia_fw-la that_o be_v the_o substance_n be_v preserve_v entire_a where_o again_o it_o speak_v its_o own_o condemnation_n for_o how_o can_v the_o substance_n be_v preserve_v when_o half_a of_o that_o which_o our_o saviour_n make_v the_o sacrament_n be_v deny_v to_o the_o people_n he_o call_v
will_v do_v we_o only_o hate_v the_o heathen_a idol_n and_o decline_v they_o but_o as_o for_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o saint_n we_o have_v and_o worship_v they_o no_o they_o and_o we_o answer_v origen_n have_v not_o the_o same_o cause_n of_o decline_v these_o thing_n 20._o origen_n contra_fw-la celsum_fw-la l._n 7._o non_fw-la eandem_fw-la aversandi_fw-la cau_fw-fr vam_fw-la esse_fw-la illis_fw-la &_o nobis_fw-la aliis_fw-la rationibus_fw-la moventur_fw-la quam_fw-la christiani_n &_o judaei_n quibus_fw-la religio_fw-la est_fw-la fic_z numen_fw-la colere_fw-la sibi_fw-la ab_fw-la his_fw-la temperant_fw-la propter_fw-la illud_fw-la legis_fw-la deut._n 6._o exod._n 20._o and_o again_o those_o barbarous_a nation_n be_v move_v to_o it_o by_o other_o reason_n than_o christian_n and_o the_o jew_n be_v to_o who_o it_o be_v horrid_a impiety_n so_o to_o worship_v the_o deity_n they_o keep_v themselves_o careful_o from_o these_o because_o of_o the_o law_n deut._n 6._o thou_o shall_v fear_v the_o lord_n thy_o god_n and_o he_o shall_v thou_o serve_v and_o that_o of_o exod._n 20._o thou_o shall_v not_o make_v to_o thyself_o a_o grave_a image_n and_o because_o celsus_n have_v say_v those_o barbarian_n have_v not_o temple_n altar_n image_n by_o reason_n that_o they_o know_v not_o what_o the_o god_n and_o hero_n be_v credulitatem_fw-la impossibile_fw-it est_fw-la ut_fw-la qui_fw-la deum_fw-la novit_fw-la supplex_fw-la fiat_fw-la statuis_fw-la nos_fw-la ideò_fw-la non_fw-la honorare_fw-la simulachra_fw-la quia_fw-la quantum_fw-la possumus_fw-la cavemus_fw-la ne_fw-la quo_fw-la modo_fw-la incidamus_fw-la in_o istam_fw-la credulitatem_fw-la therefore_o origen_n subjoin_v here_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o he_o who_o know_v god_n shall_v be_v a_o worshipper_n of_o statue_n again_o we_o therefore_o do_v not_o honour_v image_n because_o we_o take_v heed_n as_o much_o as_o in_o we_o lie_v lest_o by_o any_o mean_n we_o fall_v into_o the_o credulity_n of_o attribute_v to_o they_o any_o thing_n of_o divinity_n in_o like_a manner_n minutius_n felix_n and_o arnobius_n be_v put_v to_o answer_v the_o heathen_n challenge_v the_o christian_n for_o have_v no_o temple_n octavio_n minut._n in_o octavio_n altar_n image_n for_o which_o caecilius_n reproach_n they_o that_o they_o can_v not_o show_v the_o god_n they_o worship_v and_o be_v answer_v we_o believe_v our_o god_n though_o we_o see_v he_o not_o again_o he_o reproach_n they_o with_o their_o poverty_n and_o affliction_n as_o if_o their_o god_n can_v not_o help_v they_o ibid._n cruces_fw-la nec_fw-la colimus_fw-la nec_fw-la optamus_fw-la ibid._n the_o cross_n be_v not_o to_o be_v worship_v by_o you_o but_o bear_v and_o be_v answer_v we_o neither_o worship_v cross_n nor_o desire_v they_o and_o man_n be_v the_o image_n of_o god_n arnobius_n answer_v the_o like_a challenge_n and_o be_v so_o far_o from_o acknowledge_v that_o christian_n have_v image_n gentes_fw-la arnob._n l._n 6._o contra_fw-la gentes_fw-la or_o do_v worship_v their_o god_n by_o image_n as_o he_o must_v needs_o have_v do_v if_o they_o have_v image_n then_o that_o he_o reply_v to_o the_o heathen_a that_o say_v we_o worship_v the_o god_n by_o image_n dep●ecar●_n scire_fw-la deum_fw-la &_o rei_fw-la alteri_fw-la supplicare_fw-la opem_fw-la sperare_fw-la à_fw-la numine_fw-la &_o ad_fw-la effigicm_n nullius_fw-la sensus_fw-la dep●ecar●_n what_o say_v he_o can_v be_v more_o injurious_a more_o reproachful_a to_o say_v they_o know_v god_n and_o yet_o worship_v another_o thing_n to_o profess_v they_o hope_v for_o help_v from_o the_o deity_n and_o yet_o turn_v to_o and_o supplicat_fw-la the_o image_n which_o have_v no_o sense_n which_o speak_v reason_n against_o image-worship_n in_o heathen_n or_o christian_n lactantius_n among_o many_o say_n against_o this_o folly_n colatur_fw-la lactan._n l._n 2._o c._n 18._o perversum_fw-la est_fw-la ut_fw-la simulachrum_fw-la homi_fw-la nis_fw-la à_fw-la simulachro_fw-la dei_fw-la colatur_fw-la have_v this_o it_o be_v absurd_a that_o the_o image_n of_o man_n shall_v be_v worship_v by_o the_o image_n of_o god_n the_o ancient_a council_n of_o eliberis_n in_o spain_n decree_v that_o picture_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v in_o the_o church_n epiphanius_n be_v very_o severe_a against_o image_n cujusdam_fw-la epiph._n epist_n ad_fw-la johan_n hierof_o velum_fw-la depictum_fw-la habens_fw-la imeginem_fw-la quast_o christi_fw-la vel_fw-la sancti_fw-la cujusdam_fw-la as_o he_o show_v both_o by_o deed_n and_o doctrine_n at_o anablatha_n go_v into_o a_o chapel_n to_o pray_v he_o find_v a_o veil_n hang_v there_o and_o have_v in_o it_o a_o picture_n as_o of_o christ_n or_o some_o other_o saint_n wherefore_o he_o cut_v it_o in_o piece_n as_o a_o thing_n not_o to_o be_v suffer_v in_o the_o church_n against_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n as_o he_o relate_v it_o himself_o in_o his_o epist_n to_o john_n bishop_n of_o jerusalem_n in_o who_o diocese_n that_o place_n be_v the_o cardinal_n not_o like_v the_o shift_n that_o some_o of_o their_o writer_n make_v to_o avoid_v the_o prejudice_n of_o this_o authority_n think_v good_a to_o quintum_fw-la to_o bell._n l._n 2._o the_o imagine_v cap._n 9_o sect_n ad_fw-la quintum_fw-la cut_v off_o that_o part_n of_o the_o epistle_n as_o supposititious_a and_o add_v to_o the_o rest_n by_o a_o after_o hand_n but_o this_o be_v sure_a that_o st._n hierom_n who_o be_v contemporary_a to_o epiphanius_n and_o hold_v correspondency_n and_o friendship_n with_o he_o translate_v the_o whole_a epistle_n out_o of_o greek_a into_o latin_a this_o part_n of_o it_o as_o well_o as_o the_o rest_n and_o account_v this_o to_o be_v epiphanius_n his_o deed_n and_o report_n and_o this_o one_o thing_n be_v of_o more_o weight_n than_o those_o many_o petty_a pretence_n of_o reason_n which_o the_o cardinal_n hold_v out_o for_o the_o proof_n of_o what_o he_o say_v now_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o epiphanius_n say_v doctrinal_o of_o image_n 79._o epiph._n de_fw-fr collyridianis_n har._n 79._o write_v against_o the_o collyridians_n that_o worship_v the_o virgin_n mary_n call_v she_o the_o queen_n of_o heaven_n he_o tell_v we_o the_o original_a of_o image_n or_o rather_o of_o the_o honour_n and_o worship_n they_o get_v in_o the_o world_n that_o the_o devil_n bring_v they_o in_o 〈◊〉_d in_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d under_o pretence_n of_o just_a that_o be_v of_o give_v famous_a man_n their_o due_n by_o honour_v they_o after_o death_n creep_v into_o the_o mind_n of_o man_n and_o 〈◊〉_d and_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d consecrate_v or_o design_v the_o mortal_a nature_n to_o divine_a honour_n he_o set_v before_o man_n eye_n humane_a likeness_n and_o image_n polish_v with_o great_a art_n that_o see_v they_o that_o be_v worship_v be_v dead_a and_o out_o of_o sight_n their_o image_n may_v appear_v and_o receive_v the_o honour_n and_o adoration_n so_o that_o ancient_a father_n st._n ambrose_n impiorum_fw-la ambr._n de_fw-fr obitu_fw-la the_o odosii_fw-la regem_fw-la adora_fw-la vit_fw-mi non_fw-la lignum_fw-la utique_fw-la quia_fw-la hic_fw-la gentilis_fw-la est_fw-la error_n &_o vanitas_fw-la impiorum_fw-la have_v this_o passage_n of_o helena_n mother_n of_o constantine_n when_o she_o have_v find_v the_o very_a cross_n of_o christ_n she_o worship_v the_o king_n christ_n not_o the_o wood._n the_o cardinal_n reply_v that_o st._n ambrose_n will_v have_v the_o cross_n not_o adore_v for_o itself_o but_o for_o christ_n sake_n as_o if_o that_o age_n of_o the_o the_o church_n know_v the_o new_a romish_a distinction_n or_o limitation_n of_o give_v worship_n to_o cross_n and_o image_n for_o themselves_o or_o for_o the_o exemplar_n sake_n but_o the_o cardinal_n do_v advise_o in_o cut_v off_o what_o follow_v in_o that_o father_n for_o this_o be_v a_o heathen_a error_n and_o vanity_n of_o the_o wicked_a viz._n to_o worship_v such_o thing_n religious_o yet_o there_o he_o find_v something_o which_o he_o think_v may_v favour_v the_o adoration_n of_o the_o cross_n ibid._n levavit_fw-la crucem_fw-la in_o capite_fw-la regum_fw-la ut_fw-la crux_fw-la domini_fw-la in_o regibus_fw-la adoretur_fw-la ambr._n ibid._n helena_n say_v ambrose_n do_v wise_o in_o set_v the_o cross_n upon_o the_o head_n of_o king_n for_o she_o have_v commend_v it_o to_o constantine_n her_o son_n to_o set_v it_o upon_o his_o crown_n that_o the_o cross_n of_o our_o lord_n may_v be_v adore_v in_o king_n what_o that_o material_a cross_n place_v on_o the_o diadem_n of_o any_o king_n be_v adore_v so_o must_v the_o cardinal_n suppose_v it_o or_o else_o he_o must_v grant_v that_o the_o intent_n of_o helena_n and_o the_o say_n of_o st._n ambrose_n upon_o it_o be_v only_o to_o show_v what_o esteem_v she_o have_v and_o all_o other_o ought_v to_o have_v of_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n redemptioni_fw-la non_fw-la insolentia_fw-la haec_fw-la sed_fw-la pietas_fw-la cùm_fw-la desertur_fw-la sacrae_fw-la redemptioni_fw-la and_o therefore_o it_o follow_v in_o st._n ambrose_n this_o be_v not_o a_o strange_a or_o unseemly_a thing_n but_o piety_n see_v the_o honour_n be_v give_v to_o the_o sacred_a redemption_n hear_v now_o
of_o the_o cathari_n show_v that_o after_o this_o life_n end_v the_o condition_n be_v unalterable_a the_o receptacle_n seal_v up_o the_o crown_n give_v not_o so_o if_o soul_n true_o penitent_a go_v to_o purgatory_n for_o of_o such_o soul_n he_o speak_v there_o against_o the_o novatian_o thus_o much_o of_o the_o place_n of_o soul_n we_o come_v now_o to_o the_o second_o head_n purgatory_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a infer_v not_o purgatory_n that_o be_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a from_o which_o the_o romanist_n will_v infer_v purgatory_n and_o for_o scripture_n proof_n they_o give_v we_o 2_o machab._n 12.43_o a_o fit_a foundation_n for_o such_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n the_o book_n of_o all_o the_o apocryphal_o least_o considerable_a which_o will_v easy_o appear_v to_o he_o that_o lay_v together_o what_o the_o author_n himself_o say_v of_o his_o own_o work_n in_o his_o 2._o chap._n v._o 23_o 24_o 26._o and_o chap._n 15.38_o 39_o evidence_n enough_o of_o a_o mere_a humane_a work_n do_v by_o the_o labour_n of_o the_o brain_n not_o the_o inspiration_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n st._n aug._n indeed_o sometime_o call_v these_o book_n canonical_a according_a to_o the_o large_a acception_n of_o the_o african_a church_n but_o be_v put_v to_o answer_v a_o argument_n of_o the_o donatist_n ground_v upon_o the_o machab._n the_o machab._n example_n of_o razis_n he_o much_o lessen_v the_o authority_n of_o they_o as_o not_o to_o be_v compare_v with_o the_o book_n of_o the_o law_n and_o psalm_n legatur_fw-la aug._n contra_fw-la gauden_n l._n 2._o c_o 23._o quibus_fw-la dominus_fw-la testimonium_fw-la perhibet_fw-la tanquam_fw-la testibus_fw-la suis_fw-la luc._n 24_o 44._o recepta_fw-la non_fw-la inutiliter_fw-la si_fw-la sobrie_fw-la legatur_fw-la and_o the_o prophet_n to_o which_o say_v he_o our_o lord_n give_v testimony_n as_o to_o his_o witness_n but_o this_o write_n of_o the_o mach._n be_v receive_v of_o the_o church_n not_o unprofitable_o if_o it_o be_v read_v sober_o gregory_n bishop_n of_o rome_n cite_v a_o place_n out_o of_o these_o book_n 13._o greg._n moral_a l._n 19_o c._n 13._o excuse_n it_o because_o he_o do_v it_o out_o of_o book_n not_o canonical_a in_o moral_a l._n 19_o c._n 13._o again_o he_o that_o well_o consider_v the_o place_n will_v easy_o distinguish_v between_o the_o fact_n of_o judas_n and_o the_o mistake_a collection_n or_o misapplication_n of_o the_o writer_n of_o that_o book_n judas_n no_o doubt_n do_v pious_o for_o he_o see_v their_o sin_n or_o sacrilege_n as_o the_o cause_n why_o they_o be_v slay_v vers_fw-la 40._o fall_v to_o his_o devotion_n pray_v and_o send_v a_o sin-offering_n to_o jerusalem_n v._o 42.43_o not_o for_o the_o sin_n of_o they_o that_o die_v that_o be_v the_o mistake_n of_o this_o writer_n but_o upon_o occasion_n of_o their_o sin_n to_o divert_v the_o wrath_n from_o the_o rest_n of_o his_o army_n as_o joshua_n think_v himself_o concern_v upon_o the_o sin_n of_o achan_n josh_n 7.10_o also_o it_o be_v apparent_a that_o they_o die_v in_o their_o sin_n the_o thing_n they_o have_v steal_v be_v find_v about_o they_o which_o argue_v both_o the_o incogitancy_n of_o this_o writer_n who_o vers_fw-la 45._o suppose_n they_o die_v godly_a and_o the_o impertinency_n of_o the_o romanist_n who_o suppose_v they_o in_o purgatory_n whither_o they_o send_v none_o that_o die_v in_o their_o sin_n but_o only_o justify_v person_n they_o also_o urge_v 2_o tim._n 1.18_o for_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a whereas_o that_o prayer_n for_o onesiphorus_n suppose_v he_o dead_a at_o that_o time_n have_v but_o reference_n to_o the_o mercy_n which_o shall_v be_v impart_v at_o the_o last_o day_n to_o which_o also_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n do_v much_o refer_v and_o make_v nothing_o for_o purgatory_n and_o therefore_o all_o the_o testimony_n they_o bring_v out_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n or_o council_n for_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a be_v impertinent_a as_o to_o the_o prove_v of_o a_o purgatory_n there_o be_v other_o reason_n for_o such_o pray_n as_o we_o shall_v see_v a_o wilful_a pervert_n it_o be_v of_o that_o ancient_a practice_n to_o draw_v it_o off_o as_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v do_v from_o the_o first_o intent_n and_o purpose_n to_o fasten_v it_o upon_o their_o conceit_n of_o purgatory_n pain_n we_o shall_v see_v this_o better_a by_o the_o trial_n follow_v the_o ancient_n when_o they_o set_v themselves_o to_o give_v reason_n of_o the_o church_n pray_v for_o the_o dead_a prayer_n other_o purpose_n of_o such_o prayer_n give_v not_o this_o of_o purgatory_n which_o have_v be_v most_o obvious_a and_o most_o fit_a to_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o the_o adversary_n have_v it_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n but_o other_o reason_n they_o allege_v differ_v from_o or_o inconsistent_a with_o purgatory_n this_o appear_v by_o epiphanius_n who_o be_v put_v to_o it_o by_o aerius_n question_v the_o prayer_n make_v in_o the_o church_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o by_o dionysius_n in_o his_o hierarchy_n who_o put_v himself_o to_o answer_v the_o like_a question_n in_o both_o of_o they_o it_o appear_v that_o the_o intent_n of_o the_o church_n by_o those_o prayer_n be_v main_o this_o the_o instruction_n of_o the_o live_n and_o the_o confirm_v of_o their_o hope_n see_v first_o what_o epiphanius_n say_v he_o call_v this_o practice_n a_o seemly_a preach_n or_o publish_v 〈◊〉_d epiph._n har._n 75._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o what_o of_o the_o happy_a estate_n and_o rest_n of_o those_o that_o die_v in_o christ_n whereby_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o live_n be_v confirm_v and_o their_o hope_n raise_v what_o more_o profitable_a say_v he_o then_o that_o the_o live_a shall_v believe_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d they_o that_o be_v depart_v be_v in_o be_v and_o do_v live_v with_o the_o lord_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o again_o there_o be_v hope_n say_v he_o to_o they_o while_o they_o pray_v for_o their_o brethren_n as_o now_o in_o their_o peregrination_n or_o absence_n insinuate_v that_o albeit_o they_o be_v depart_v or_o go_v from_o they_o yet_o they_o shall_v meet_v again_o also_o to_o show_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d that_o which_o be_v more_o perfect_a which_o must_v refer_v to_o the_o state_n of_o the_o next_o life_n for_o say_v he_o while_o we_o be_v here_o in_o the_o world_n we_o offend_v often_o and_o last_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d because_o all_o man_n do_v offend_v and_o slip_v in_o this_o life_n more_o or_o less_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d therefore_o we_o pray_v for_o all_o even_a for_o patriarch_n etc._n etc._n to_o separate_v christ_n from_o all_o other_o for_o he_o be_v without_o sin_n altogether_o be_v not_o to_o be_v pray_v for_o but_o to_o be_v pray_v unto_o and_o worship_v these_o be_v all_o the_o reason_n he_o give_v of_o their_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a which_o we_o see_v do_v respect_n and_o provide_v for_o the_o instruction_n of_o the_o live_n and_o do_v not_o imply_v any_o such_o state_n of_o the_o dead_a in_o pain_n and_o grief_n as_o purgatory_n suppose_v but_o the_o contrary_a now_o see_v we_o what_o the_o romanist_n endeavour_v to_o pick_v out_o of_o word_n because_o he_o say_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a be_v profitable_a ibid._n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d epiph._n ibid._n although_o it_o cut_v not_o off_o sin_n all_o or_o whole_o they_o infer_v thence_o therefore_o it_o do_v cut_v off_o sin_n in_o part_n we_o answer_v as_o epiphanius_n do_v not_o say_v that_o so_o neither_o can_v he_o mean_v it_o for_o first_o we_o must_v suppose_v he_o will_v not_o answer_v impertinent_o to_o aerius_n who_o object_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d if_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_n altogether_o profit_v the_o dead_a then_o let_v no_o man_n live_v godly_a etc._n etc._n therefore_o epiphanius_n his_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d must_v answer_v to_o aerius_n his_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o must_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o sin_n of_o such_o person_n as_o aerius_n speak_v of_o such_o as_o have_v no_o care_n of_o their_o life_n but_o leave_v it_o to_o their_o live_a friend_n to_o pray_v for_o they_o after_o death_n now_o if_o epiphanius_n shall_v mean_v that_o prayer_n do_v in_o part_n cut_v off_o such_o man_n sin_n then_o must_v he_o speak_v according_a to_o that_o merciful_a opinion_n of_o mitigate_a the_o pain_n of_o the_o damn_a by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_n with_o which_o conceit_n some_o of_o the_o ancient_n be_v taint_v as_o we_o shall_v see_v below_o but_o this_o will_v be_v nothing_o to_o purgatory_n second_o if_o his_o meaning_n have_v be_v as_o the_o romanist_n will_v have_v it_o that_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a do_v not_o cut_v off_o such_o man_n sin_n but_o that_o there_o be_v another_o sort_n of_o sinner_n