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church_n council_n general_n infallibility_n 4,531 5 11.6807 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A36727 A conference between an orthodox Christian and a Socinian in four dialogues : wherein the late distinction of a real and nominal Trinitarian is considered / by H. de Lvzancy ... De Luzancy, H. C. (Hippolyte du Chastelet), d. 1713. 1698 (1698) Wing D2417; ESTC R31382 78,348 146

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the_o son_n and_o the_o holy_a spirit_n i_o say_v no_o for_o though_o the_o father_n be_v god_n the_o son_n be_v god_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n god_n yet_o they_o be_v but_o one_o god_n for_o god_n can_v be_v but_o one_o the_o divine_a nature_n be_v incapable_a of_o multiplication_n division_n or_o augmentation_n you_o may_v and_o will_v urge_v again_o that_o this_o be_v very_o unreasonable_a i_o hope_v to_o show_v you_o one_o day_n that_o it_o be_v high_o rational_a but_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n i_o gain_v the_o point_n and_o complain_v that_o you_o do_v i_o wrong_n and_o be_v inexcusable_a in_o charge_v i_o with_o destroy_v the_o unity_n of_o god_n 2_o you_o be_v positive_a that_o the_o ante-nicene_n father_n assert_v the_o unity_n but_o not_o the_o trinity_n i_o suppose_v you_o mean_v in_o our_o sense_n of_o a_o trinity_n or_o else_o the_o mistake_n be_v not_o
pardonable_a origen_n and_o other_o antenicenes_n make_v out_o the_o unity_n of_o god_n in_o a_o ternary_a of_o person_n though_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o equality_n say_v the_o author_n of_o the_o answer_n to_o dr._n bull_n pag._n 22._o unjust_a in_o this_o to_o origen_n and_o the_o rest_n i_o have_v some_o remark_n on_o that_o answer_n which_o i_o design_v to_o make_v public_a what_o the_o author_n have_v say_v concern_v the_o epistle_n of_o st._n barnabas_n and_o those_o of_o the_o holy_a martyr_n ignatius_n be_v far_o from_o invalidate_v their_o authority_n we_o must_v have_v more_o than_o suspicion_n and_o bare_a denial_n to_o illegitimate_a a_o book_n they_o be_v certain_o work_v of_o great_a antiquity_n and_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v such_o by_o the_o succeed_a age_n but_o what_o must_v we_o say_v of_o a_o person_n of_o his_o great_a erudition_n who_o pretend_v to_o answer_v a_o book_n full_a of_o all_o the_o testimony_n which_o those_o early_a time_n can_v afford_v 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constantinopolitan_a emperor_n style_v the_o then_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n the_o parasite_n of_o these_o time_n who_o now_o in_o regard_n of_o their_o antiquity_n we_o call_v father_n you_o be_v not_o insensible_a how_o this_o may_v be_v take_v up_o and_o expose_v if_o hosius_n spiridio_n paphnutius_fw-la if_o the_o gregory_n the_o basil_n the_o cyril_n the_o theodoret_n the_o chrysostoms_n the_o hierom_n the_o hilary_n the_o ambrose_n the_o augustine_n be_v the_o parasite_n of_o their_o time_n where_o shall_v we_o find_v any_o virtue_n piety_n or_o learn_v in_o this_o world_n but_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o overlook_a those_o excess_n and_o tell_v you_o that_o it_o be_v a_o folly_n to_o wrangle_v with_o this_o or_o that_o passage_n sometime_o to_o inveigh_v against_o platonicism_n and_o sometime_o to_o complain_v that_o those_o write_n be_v lose_v which_o may_v have_v inform_v we_o better_o to_o be_v plain_a we_o have_v enough_o leave_v and_o from_o what_o remain_v of_o the_o 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a_o trinity_n of_o god_n but_o not_o against_o a_o trinity_n of_o person_n in_o one_o god_n what_o be_v the_o first_o assertion_n of_o that_o creed_n i_o believe_v in_o one_o god_n for_o you_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v ancient_o thus_o read_v ans_fw-fr to_o doctor_n bull_n pag._n 16._o what_o be_v the_o second_o but_o a_o explication_n of_o the_o first_o this_o one_o god_n be_v the_o father_n almighty_a his_o only_a beget_v son_n jesus_n christ_n and_o the_o holy_a spirit_n three_o person_n in_o one_o god_n socin_n this_o be_v so_o drag_v in_o so_o strain_v so_o unnatural_a that_o to_o any_o unprejudiced_a person_n it_o will_v visible_o appear_v not_o to_o be_v the_o doctrine_n design_v to_o be_v teach_v in_o the_o creed_n orthod_n i_o be_o apt_a to_o think_v that_o i_o can_v substantial_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v i_o believe_v the_o creed_n to_o be_v true_o apostolical_a notwithstanding_o what_o some_o learned_a man_n have_v say_v against_o it_o not_o because_o it_o be_v make_v by_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o though_o nothing_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a but_o by_o reason_n of_o its_o great_a antiquity_n now_o when_o you_o and_o i_o dispute_v about_o the_o sense_n and_o design_n of_o that_o creed_n we_o have_v but_o one_o way_n to_o take_v and_o that_o be_v first_o to_o see_v what_o the_o scripture_n teach_v concern_v its_o article_n which_o indeed_o be_v no_o more_o than_o a_o epitome_n or_o collection_n of_o the_o principal_a truth_n deliver_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n second_o to_o examine_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o father_n who_o live_v before_o the_o church_n think_v it_o fit_a and_o necessary_a to_o make_v a_o large_a explanation_n of_o the_o faith_n three_o to_o satisfy_v ourselves_o of_o the_o sense_n which_o the_o immediate_o follow_v council_n give_v to_o that_o creed_n in_o their_o decree_n all_o this_o be_v high_o reasonable_a for_o if_o the_o scripture_n which_o have_v teach_v so_o express_o god_n to_o be_v one_o have_v also_o express_o teach_v the_o father_n to_o be_v god_n the_o son_n god_n and_o the_o holy_a spirit_n god_n than_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o creed_n be_v such_o and_o no_o other_o the_o authority_n of_o that_o creed_n or_o of_o any_o creed_n whatever_o be_v from_o the_o scripture_n it_o can_v therefore_o be_v contrary_a to_o it_o and_o that_o excellent_a rule_n must_v be_v bring_v to_o that_o primitive_a rule_n from_o whence_o it_o be_v derive_v and_o alas_o have_v not_o this_o be_v prove_v to_o you_o so_o often_o and_o so_o full_o that_o after_o a_o world_n of_o wrangle_v you_o have_v be_v drive_v from_o your_o new_a and_o unnatural_a criticism_n and_o force_v to_o shelter_v yourselves_o under_o the_o weak_a defence_n of_o your_o philosophical_a disceptation_n but_o if_o this_o creed_n have_v no_o other_o sense_n but_o that_o which_o you_o put_v upon_o it_o the_o father_n only_a god_n the_o son_n only_a man_n and_o the_o holy_a spirit_n only_o a_o energy_n or_o operation_n how_o come_v the_o father_n of_o that_o time_n so_o open_o to_o contradict_v it_o i_o will_v not_o do_v again_o what_o have_v be_v so_o excellent_o do_v by_o the_o learned_a dr._n bull_n who_o have_v oblige_v the_o christian_a church_n with_o two_o book_n which_o indeed_o you_o may_v speak_v or_o discourse_v against_o but_o can_v never_o substantial_o answer_v have_v he_o not_o undeniable_o prove_v out_o of_o their_o write_n that_o those_o father_n believe_v the_o two_o nature_n in_o jesus_n christ_n the_o divine_a and_o the_o human_a that_o they_o have_v assert_v his_o pre-existence_n and_o if_o his_o pre-existence_n than_o his_o eternity_n and_o if_o his_o eternity_n than_o his_o consubstantiality_n with_o the_o father_n if_o the_o second_o part_n of_o the_o creed_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o christ_n only_a man_n how_o come_v irenaeus_n lib._n 1._o advers._fw-la haeres_fw-la c._n 2._o in_o deliver_v the_o belief_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n or_o as_o he_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n all_o the_o world_n over_o to_o call_v he_o our_o lord_n our_o god_n our_o saviour_n our_o king_n to_o who_o every_o knee_n ought_v to_o bow_v etc._n etc._n how_o come_v tertullian_n who_o have_v deliver_v this_o very_a rule_n of_o faith_n to_o talk_v as_o we_o do_v of_o the_o bless_a trinity_n design_o and_o positive_o against_o praxea_n and_o say_v that_o he_o be_v warrant_v by_o the_o apostle_n to_o speak_v of_o christ_n as_o of_o he_o who_o be_v god_n bless_v over_o all_o for_o ever_o if_o he_o believe_v the_o holy_a spirit_n to_o be_v only_o a_o energy_n how_o come_v he_o to_o style_v he_o tertium_fw-la numen_fw-la deitatis_fw-la &_o tertium_fw-la nomen_fw-la majestatis_fw-la the_o three_o person_n of_o the_o deity_n the_o three_o name_n of_o majesty_n and_o power_n certain_o novatianus_n be_v acquaint_v with_o this_o creed_n and_o yet_o lib._n de_fw-fr trin._n
of_o creator_n preserver_n etc._n etc._n but_o that_o this_o leave_v a_o internal_a incommunicable_a character_n essential_o inseparable_a from_o the_o deity_n that_o it_o may_v be_v say_v that_o god_n may_v never_o have_v be_v a_o creator_n but_o that_o it_o can_v be_v say_v that_o he_o may_v never_o have_v be_v a_o father_n the_o former_a be_v only_o a_o effect_n of_o his_o will_n but_o this_o latter_a the_o necessary_a result_n of_o his_o nature_n this_o you_o have_v pag._n 243._o but_o that_o which_o sink_v for_o ever_o this_o miserable_a imputation_n of_o sabellianism_n or_o nominalism_n call_v it_o which_o you_o please_v be_v the_o noble_a principle_n which_o this_o learned_a and_o worthy_a man_n have_v lay_v down_o animadv_n p._n 245._o in_o which_o as_o in_o the_o rest_n he_o have_v true_o speak_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n upon_o the_o whole_a matter_n in_o discourse_v of_o the_o trinity_n two_o thing_n be_v absolute_o necessary_a to_o be_v hold_v and_o insist_v upon_o one_o that_o each_o and_o every_o person_n of_o the_o bless_a trinity_n entire_o contain_v and_o include_v in_o himself_o the_o whole_a divine_a nature_n the_o other_o that_o each_o person_n be_v incommunicable_o different_a and_o distinct_a from_o one_o another_o i_o think_v you_o look_v dissatisfy_v when_o speak_v of_o this_o famous_a distinction_n of_o realist_n and_o nominal_n i_o use_v the_o word_n of_o slander_n calumny_n disingenuity_n let_v i_o now_o beg_v of_o you_o to_o give_v it_o a_o name_n socin_n true_o i_o must_v be_v force_v to_o tell_v you_o that_o i_o see_v this_o distinction_n urge_v so_o often_o our_o late_a print_n so_o full_a of_o it_o and_o honest_a mr._n e._n value_v himself_o so_o high_o upon_o it_o that_o i_o think_v it_o be_v more_o solid_a than_o real_o it_o be_v i_o will_v take_v time_n to_o consider_v of_o what_o you_o have_v say_v to_o it_o when_o i_o have_v next_o the_o happiness_n to_o see_v you_o you_o shall_v have_v my_o thought_n of_o it_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n ...._o orthod_n no_o i_o can_v leave_v you_o yet_o i_o must_v before_o we_o part_v complain_v of_o another_o injustice_n which_o your_o friend_n have_v do_v we_o socin_n what_o be_v that_o orthod_n that_o which_o my_o lord_n bishop_n of_o sarum_n call_v in_o his_o pastoral_a letter_n the_o heavy_a of_o all_o imputation_n that_o they_o submit_v to_o his_o lordship_n whole_a doctrine_n which_o differ_v in_o nothing_o from_o what_o the_o unitarian_n profess_v in_o all_o their_o write_n that_o be_v to_o say_v in_o plain_a english_a that_o he_o be_v a_o socinian_n a_o cruel_a and_o barbarous_a sort_n of_o a_o compliment_n to_o a_o catholic_n and_o a_o english_a bishop_n they_o do_v the_o same_o in_o effect_n to_o my_o lord_n of_o worcester_n in_o their_o last_o answer_n to_o his_o lordship_n book_n pag._n 62._o to_o the_o university_n of_o oxford_n to_o dr._n south_n who_o they_o call_v in_o derision_n brother_n south_n as_o they_o have_v do_v dr._n wallis_n father_n wallis_n in_o the_o answer_n to_o my_o lord_n of_o chichester_n they_o speak_v very_o plain_a pag._n 27._o it_o be_v say_v they_o by_o this_o declaration_n of_o our_o meaning_n that_o all_o our_o book_n past_n or_o to_o come_v be_v to_o be_v interpret_v we_o never_o intend_v to_o oppose_v any_o body_n in_o the_o article_n of_o the_o trinity_n but_o the_o tritheist_n or_o realist_n who_o be_v heretic_n to_o the_o church_n as_o well_o as_o to_o we_o nor_o in_o the_o article_n of_o the_o divinity_n of_o our_o saviour_n but_o the_o eutychian_o who_o make_v the_o communication_n of_o idiom_n to_o be_v real_a and_o not_o only_o verbal_a which_o be_v a_o heterodoxy_n condemn_v in_o divers_a general_n council_n that_o word_n general_a council_n which_o they_o esteem_v so_o little_o before_o be_v now_o of_o great_a value_n they_o tell_v this_o very_a bishop_n that_o they_o do_v not_o in_o the_o least_o suspect_n that_o he_o will_v disow_v the_o catholic_n doctrine_n and_o be_v of_o a_o party_n of_o heretic_n who_o have_v be_v condemn_v by_o so_o many_o general_a council_n socin_n well_o and_o where_o lie_v the_o injustice_n of_o all_o this_o if_o the_o socinian_o be_v become_v orthodox_n and_o embrace_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n be_v it_o not_o a_o honour_n to_o these_o great_a man_n to_o have_v reason_v they_o into_o this_o submission_n i_o remember_v that_o in_o some_o of_o our_o print_n we_o have_v call_v the_o bishop_n of_o sarum_n the_o eusebius_n of_o the_o age._n as_o the_o famous_a eusebius_n bring_v over_o many_o bishop_n to_o the_o subscribe_v the_o homoousion_n be_v it_o the_o heavy_a of_o all_o imputation_n to_o his_o lordship_n that_o he_o have_v persuade_v the_o socinian_o out_o of_o their_o error_n must_v you_o yourself_o take_v it_o ill_o that_o person_n of_o who_o i_o have_v hear_v you_o often_o give_v a_o great_a character_n shall_v return_v to_o the_o faith_n and_o obedience_n of_o the_o church_n all_o that_o i_o dislike_v in_o those_o compliment_n 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the_o pillar_n of_o truth_n in_o short_a if_o the_o trinity_n believe_v and_o teach_v by_o the_o church_n be_v sabellianism_n they_o be_v your_o humble_a servant_n it_o be_v that_o that_o they_o will_v cover_v socinianism_n by_o but_o how_o can_v they_o believe_v as_o the_o church_n when_o the_o doctrine_n which_o they_o pretend_v to_o return_v to_o be_v that_o to_o which_o the_o church_n be_v irreconcilable_a socin_n how_o must_v they_o do_v then_o to_o convince_v you_o that_o they_o sincere_o desire_v a_o peace_n and_o be_v come_v over_o to_o you_o orthod_n by_o write_v with_o that_o respect_n which_o be_v due_a to_o bishop_n of_o who_o in_o the_o answer_n to_o mr._n edward_n pag._n 13._o they_o own_o the_o institution_n to_o be_v of_o divine_a right_n let_v they_o receive_v the_o catholic_n creed_n that_o of_o the_o great_a athanasius_n the_o doxology_n and_o the_o article_n of_o the_o church_n of_o englang_n then_o and_o not_o before_o i_o will_v believe_v that_o they_o be_v 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