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church_n council_n general_n infallibility_n 4,531 5 11.6807 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A00797 True relations of sundry conferences had between certaine Protestant doctours and a Iesuite called M. Fisher (then prisoner in London for the Catholique fayth:) togeather with defences of the same. In which is shewed, that there hath alwayes beene, since Christ, a visible church, and in it a visible succession of doctours & pastours, teaching the vnchanged doctrine of fayth, left by Christ and his apostles, in all points necessary to saluation and that not Protestants, but only Roman Catholiques haue had, and can shew such a visible church, and in it such a succesion of pastours and doctours, of whome men may securely learne what pointe of fayth are necessary to saluation. / By A.C. A. C.; Sweet, John, 1570-1632, attributed name.; Floyd, John, 1572-1649, attributed name.; Fisher, John, 1569-1641, attributed name. 1626 (1626) STC 10916.5; ESTC S118355 64,677 92

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not_o signanter_n and_o express_o make_v this_o precise_a answer_n which_o now_o he_o make_v nor_o scarce_o any_o part_n of_o it_o as_o appear_z by_o the_o relation_n of_o the_o first_o conference_n make_v by_o the_o jesuite_n in_o fresh_a memory_n and_o confer_v with_o d._n white_a himself_o who_o do_v not_o at_o that_o time_n contradict_v it_o in_o this_o point_n three_o the_o reason_n which_o move_v the_o jesuite_n to_o say_v that_o d._n white_n have_v secure_v he_o as_o be_v say_v in_o this_o relation_n be_v for_o that_o d._n white_a in_o the_o say_v first_o conference_n grant_v that_o there_o must_v be_v one_o or_o other_o church_n continual_o visible_a which_o have_v in_o all_o age_n teach_v the_o unchanged_a faith_n of_o christ_n in_o all_o point_v fundamental_a and_o be_v urge_v to_o assign_v such_o a_o church_n d._n whyte_n express_o grant_v that_o he_o can_v not_o assign_v and_o show_v any_o church_n different_a from_o the_o roman_a which_o hold_v in_o all_o age_n all_o 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as_o superstitious_a and_o the_o doctrine_n as_o erroneous_a in_o faith_n yea_o as_o heretical_a and_o even_a antichristian_a all_o this_o consider_v the_o b._n have_v no_o cause_n to_o be_v hearty_o angry_a either_o with_o the_o jesuite_n for_o relate_v or_o with_o himself_o for_o grant_v protestant_n to_o have_v make_v a_o rent_n or_o division_n from_o the_o rom._n church_n but_o may_v with_o a_o safe_a conscience_n yet_o further_o grant_v as_o one_o do_v be_v it_o not_o he_o to_o a_o honourable_a person_n that_o it_o be_v ill_o do_v of_o those_o who_o do_v first_o make_v the_o separation_n which_o be_v most_o true_a both_o in_o regard_n there_o can_v be_v no_o just_a cause_n to_o make_v a_o schism_n and_o diusion_n from_o the_o whole_a church_n for_o the_o whole_a church_n can_v universal_o err_v in_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n and_o other_o just_a cause_n there_o be_v none_o and_o also_o for_o that_o those_o who_o first_o make_v the_o separation_n luther_n and_o his_o associate_n give_v the_o first_o cause_n in_o manner_n aforesaid_a to_o the_o rom._n church_n to_o excommunicate_v they_o as_o by_o our_o saviour_n warrant_n she_o may_v when_o they_o will_v not_o hear_v the_o church_n which_o do_v both_o at_o first_o seek_v to_o recall_v they_o from_o their_o novel●_a opinion_n and_o after_o their_o breach_n do_v permit_v yea_o invite_v they_o public_o with_o safe_a conduct_n to_o rome_n to_o a_o general_n council_n and_o free_o to_o speak_v what_o they_o can_v for_o themselves_o and_o i_o make_v no_o doubt_n so_o far_o be_v the_o rom._n church_n from_o be_v cause_n of_o continuance_n of_o the_o schism_n or_o hindrance_n of_o reunion_n that_o it_o will_v yet_o if_o any_o hope_n may_v be_v give_v that_o protestant_n will_v sincere_o seek_v nothing_o but_o truth_n and_o peace_n give_v they_o a_o free_a hear_n with_o most_o ampie_a &_o safe_a conduct_n which_o be_v more_o than_o ever_o we_o english_a catholic_n can_v obtain_v although_o we_o have_v make_v offer_v diverse_a time_n to_o come_v to_o public_a dispute_n first_o in_o queen_n elizabeth_n her_o day_n and_o also_o in_o his_o majesty_n that_o now_o be_v only_o require_v the_o prince_n word_n for_o our_o safe●y_n and_o equality_n of_o condition_n of_o the_o dispute_n unto_o which_o offer_n our_o adversary_n never_o do_v nor_o ever_o will_v give_v good_a answer_n as_o one_o say_v honestum_fw-la responsum_fw-la nullum_fw-la dabunt_fw-la praeter_fw-la unum_fw-la quod_fw-la numquam_fw-la dabunt_fw-la regina_n rex_fw-la spondet_fw-la aduola_n camp_n inrat_n acad._n red_a red_a this_o question_n the_o jesuite_n make_v chief_o against_o that_o part_n of_o the_o b._n his_o last_o speech_n in_o which_o he_o say_v there_o be_v error_n in_o doctrine_n for_o if_o the_o b._n mean_v as_o the_o jesuite_n understand_v he_o to_o mean_v that_o there_o be_v error_n of_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o general_n church_n never_o do_v any_o lawful_a &_o competent_a judge_n so_o censure_n neither_o can_v it_o so_o be_v no_o power_n in_o earth_n or_o hell_n itself_o can_v so_o far_o prevail_v against_o the_o general_n church_n of_o christ_n build_v upon_o a_o rock_n as_o to_o make_v it_o or_o the_o pastor_n thereof_o err_v general_o in_o any_o one_o point_n of_o divine_a truth_n christ_n promise_n stand_v matth_n 16._o &_o 28._o luc._n 22._o joan._n 14._o &_o 16._o and_o will_v never_o permit_v this_o no_o not_o in_o antichrists_n day_n particular_a pastor_n &_o and_o church_n may_v fall_v into_o heresy_n or_o apostasy_n but_o the_o whole_a church_n can_v it_o may_v sometime_o not_o express_o teach_v or_o know_v all_o divine_a truth_n which_o afterward_o it_o may_v learn_v by_o study_n of_o scripture_n and_o otherways_o but_o it_o never_o do_v nor_o can_v universal_o by_o its_o full_a authority_n teach_v any_o thing_n to_o be_v divine_a truth_n which_o be_v not_o and_o much_o less_o any_o thing_n to_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o divine_a truth_n either_o express_v or_o involue_v in_o scripture_n right_o understand_v so_o as_o no_o reformation_n of_o faith_n can_v be_v needful_a in_o the_o general_n church_n but_o only_o in_o particular_a church_n in_o which_o case_n also_o when_o the_o need_n be_v only_o questionable_a particular_a pastor_n or_o church_n must_v not_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o judge_v and_o condemn_v other_o of_o error_n in_o faith_n but_o as_o s._n irenaus_n intimate_v must_v have_v recourse_n to_o that_o church_n which_o have_v more_o powerful_a principality_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o to_o her_o bishop_n be_v chief_a pastor_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n as_o be_v successor_n to_o s._n peter_n to_o who_o christ_n promise_v the_o key_n math._n 16._o for_o who_o christ_n pray_v that_o his_o faith_n may_v not_o fail_v luc._n 22._o and_o who_o he_o charge_v to_o confirm_v his_o brethren_n and_o to_o feed_v and_o govern_v the_o whole_a flock_n lamb_n and_o sheep_n loan_n 21._o people_n and_o pastor_n subject_n and_o superior_n which_o he_o shall_v never_o refuse_v to_o do_v in_o such_o sort_n as_o that_o this_o neglect_n shall_v be_v a_o just_a cause_n for_o any_o particular_a man_n or_o church_n to_o make_v a_o schisime_n or_o separation_n of_o himself_o and_o other_o from_o the_o whole_a general_n church_n under_o pretence_n of_o reformation_n either_o of_o manner_n or_o of_o faith_n protestant_n therefore_o do_v ill_a in_o first_o divide_v themselves_o from_o the_o general_n church_n and_o do_v still_o ill_o in_o continue_v divide_v from_o it_o neither_o can_v those_o protestant_n be_v excuse_v from_o intolerable_a pride_n &_o insolent_a madness_n who_o presume_v to_o be_v accuser_n witness_n judge_n &_o executioner_n of_o the_o sentence_n pronounce_v by_o themselves_o against_o the_o church_n in_o general_n and_o against_o the_o principal_a and_o mother_n church_n and_o the_o b._n of_o rome_n which_o be_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v their_o judge_n in_o this_o case_n for_o although_o it_o be_v against_o equity_n that_o subject_n and_o child_n shall_v be_v accuser_n witness_n judge_n and_o executioner_n against_o their_o prince_n and_o mother_n in_o any_o case_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o absurd_a that_o in_o some_o case_n the_o prince_n or_o mother_n may_v accuse_v witness_n judge_v and_o if_o need_v be_v execute_v justice_n against_o unjust_a or_o rebellious_a subevect_n or_o evil_a child_n child_n it_o be_v true_a when_o the_o question_n be_v about_o the_o general_n faith_n of_o the_o church_n the_o matter_n may_v be_v make_v most_o firm_a if_o the_o church_n in_o a_o general_n council_n with_o the_o full_a authority_n of_o her_o chief_n pastor_n and_o all_o other_o pastor_n who_o all_o people_n must_v obey_v rom._n 13._o hebr._n 13._o decree_v what_o be_v to_o be_v hold_v for_o divine_a truth_n by_o visum_fw-la est_fw-la spiritui_fw-la sancto_fw-la &_o nobis_fw-la act._n 15._o and_o by_o add_v anathema_n to_o such_o as_o resist_v this_o truth_n for_o if_o this_o be_v not_o firm_a and_o infallible_a what_o can_v be_v so_o firm_a and_o well_o found_v in_o the_o church_n which_o under_o pretext_n of_o seem_v evident_a scripture_n or_o demonstration_n may_v not_o be_v shake_v and_o call_v in_o question_n by_o a_o err_a disputer_n for_o if_o all_o pastor_n be_v gather_v together_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n pray_v unanimiter_fw-la for_o the_o promise_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n make_v great_a and_o diligent_a search_n and_o examination_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o other_o ground_n of_o faith_n and_o hear_v each_o pastor_n declare_v what_o have_v be_v the_o ancient_a tradition_n of_o his_o church_n shall_v in_o fine_a conclude_v and_o decree_v in_o manner_n aforesaid_a what_o be_v to_o be_v hold_v for_o divine_a truth_n if_o i_o say_v the_o council_n in_o this_o decree_n may_v err_v and_o may_v be_v control_v by_o every_o particular_a or_o any_o particular_a unlearned_a or_o learned_a man_n or_o church_n pretend_v evident_a text_n of_o scripture_n or_o clear_a demonstration_n supple_a testae_fw-la &_o judice_fw-la seipsis_fw-la what_o can_v remain_v firm_a or_o certain_a upon_o earth_n which_o may_v not_o by_o a_o like_a pretence_n be_v control_v or_o at_o least_o by_o one_o or_o other_o call_v in_o question_n a_o general_n council_n therefore_o be_v lawful_o call_v continue_v and_o confirm_v be_v doubtless_o a_o most_o competent_a judge_n of_o all_o controversy_n of_o faith_n but_o what_o be_v to_o be_v do_v when_o a_o general_n council_n can_v be_v call_v as_o many_o time_n it_o can_v by_o reason_n of_o manifold_a impediment_n or_o if_o be_v call_v all_o will_v not_o be_v of_o one_o mind_n as_o among_o protestant_n and_o other_o who_o admit_v no_o infallible_a mean_n rule_n or_o judge_v beside_o only_a scripture_n which_o each_o man_n will_v interpret_v as_o seem_v best_a to_o his_o several_a private_a judgement_n or_o spirit_n it_o be_v scarce_o to_o