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care_n and_o vigilancy_n and_o dispense_n the_o same_o faithful_o to_o her_o child_n as_o need_n require_v whensoever_o any_o haeretique_n or_o other_o enemy_n endeavour_v to_o corrupt_v or_o pervert_v she_o call_v her_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n together_o to_o examine_v the_o matter_n be_v infallible_o assist_v by_o that_o spirit_n of_o truth_n which_o our_o saviour_n promise_v to_o be_v always_o with_o his_o disciple_n that_o be_v with_o his_o church_n she_o declare_v what_o be_v true_a and_o what_o false_a as_o agree_v or_o disagree_v with_o or_o from_o that_o doctrine_n which_o she_o have_v receive_v from_o her_o father_n that_o be_v prophet_n and_o apostle_n upon_o who_o as_o upon_o a_o spiritual_a foundation_n she_o be_v strong_o build_v according_a to_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n superedificaii_fw-la supra_fw-la fundamentum_fw-la apostolorum_fw-la &_o prophetarum_fw-la 20._o ephes_n 2_o 20._o build_v upon_o the_o foundation_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n the_o very_a word_n fundamentum_fw-la foundation_n also_o show_v that_o her_o doctrine_n be_v not_o of_o her_o own_o invention_n or_o frame_n but_o ground_v on_o they_o from_o who_o she_o receive_v it_o and_o that_o she_o have_v not_o any_o which_o she_o receive_v not_o from_o they_o for_o as_o in_o a_o house_n or_o building_n there_o be_v not_o the_o least_o stone_n or_o piece_n of_o timber_n which_o rest_v not_o upon_o the_o foundation_n so_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n there_o be_v not_o the_o least_o point_n which_o be_v not_o ground_v or_o contain_v in_o that_o which_o be_v deliver_v by_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n 27._o commonit_fw-la adver_v haer_fw-mi cap._n 27._o which_o truth_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n in_o like_a sort_n deduce_v out_o of_o the_o word_n depositum_fw-la use_v by_o s._n paul_n to_o timothee_n quid_fw-la est_fw-la depositum_fw-la say_v he_o id_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la tibi_fw-la creditum_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la quod_fw-la a_o te_fw-la inventum_fw-la quod_fw-la accepisti_fw-la non_fw-la quod_fw-la excogitasti_fw-la rem_fw-la non_fw-la ingenij_fw-la sed_fw-la doctrinae_fw-la non_fw-la usurpationis_fw-la privatae_fw-la sed_fw-la publica_fw-la traditionis_fw-la rem_fw-la ad_fw-la te_fw-la perductam_fw-la non_fw-la a_o te_fw-la prolatam_fw-la in_fw-la qua_fw-la non_fw-la auctor_fw-la debes_fw-la esse_fw-la sed_fw-la custos_fw-la non_fw-la institutor_fw-la sed_fw-la sectator_n non_fw-la ducens_fw-la sed_fw-la sequens_fw-la what_o be_v a_o depositum_fw-la it_o be_v that_o which_o thou_o be_v trust_v with_o not_o that_o which_o be_v find_v by_o thou_o that_o which_o thou_o have_v receive_v not_o that_o which_o thou_o have_v seek_v out_o a_o thing_n not_o of_o wit_n that_o be_v not_o of_o thy_o own_o invent_v but_o of_o learning_n that_o be_v which_o be_v learn_v not_o of_o private_a usurpation_n but_o public_a tradition_n a_o thing_n bring_v to_o thou_o not_o bring_v forth_o by_o thou_o wherein_o
to_o we_o or_o ever_o say_v word_n in_o proof_n that_o the_o case_n be_v the_o same_o i_o may_v with_o as_o much_o reason_n out_o of_o this_o story_n of_o redwalde_n say_v as_o much_o of_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v that_o he_o and_o his_o protestant_n have_v build_v a_o new_a church_n a_o new_a faith_n erect_v a_o altar_n against_o a_o altar_n etc._n etc._n 3._o but_o as_o i_o be_v say_v of_o his_o author_n they_o be_v not_o many_o as_o you_o see_v much_o less_o have_v they_o any_o part_n among_o catholic_n for_o cassander_n michael_n de_fw-fr caesenas_n and_o philip_n morney_n be_v in_o the_o index_n of_o forbid_a book_n camden_n and_o his_o english_a canon_n writer_n be_v protestant_n but_o which_o be_v more_o strange_a not_o a_o man_n of_o these_o such_o as_o they_o be_v that_o say_v any_o thing_n of_o that_o which_o he_o pretend_v in_o the_o title_n of_o his_o chapter_n but_o only_o cassander_n who_o after_o the_o fashion_n of_o haretique_n speak_v of_o the_o pomp_n and_o pride_n of_o the_o clergy_n and_o that_o they_o will_v not_o hearken_v to_o the_o admonition_n of_o some_o godly_a man_n advise_v reformation_n these_o godly_a man_n he_o mean_v such_o as_o himself_o that_o be_v haeretique_n or_o next_o door_n to_o they_o though_o sir_n humphrey_n please_v often_o to_o call_v he_o a_o learned_a romanist_n so_o that_o all_o the_o cause_n that_o even_o this_o man_n allege_v of_o the_o contention_n be_v because_o the_o ecclesiastical_a person_n will_v not_o yield_v themselves_o to_o haeretique_n and_o let_v they_o have_v the_o order_n and_o dispose_n of_o all_o thing_n at_o their_o pleasure_n therefore_o they_o break_v away_o and_o fall_v into_o contention_n with_o the_o church_n what_o cause_n do_v clergy_n man_n give_v of_o contention_n in_o not_o submit_v themselves_o to_o their_o inferior_n and_o to_o man_n that_o have_v no_o authority_n over_o they_o or_o even_o if_o the_o counsel_n of_o these_o people_n be_v good_a as_o it_o be_v not_o and_o that_o clergy_n man_n think_v not_o good_a to_o follow_v it_o must_v they_o therefore_o present_o fall_v to_o schism_n and_o haeresy_n tear_v and_o rent_v the_o church_n by_o what_o law_n be_v clergy_n man_n bind_v to_o obey_v such_o fellow_n if_o in_o a_o civil_a commonwealth_n some_o great_a man_n shall_v dislike_v the_o government_n either_o because_o his_o enemy_n have_v the_o manage_n of_o matter_n or_o that_o he_o thimk_v he_o can_v do_v it_o better_o than_o they_o and_o presume_v to_o give_v counsel_n to_o the_o prince_n and_o his_o counsel_n they_o shoull_n not_o follow_v it_o and_o that_o therefore_o he_o shall_v go_v from_o court_n make_v head_n and_o raise_v a_o rebellion_n in_o the_o common_a wealth_n who_o shall_v be_v count_v cause_n of_o this_o contention_n the_o prince_n and_o his_o counsel_n or_o he_o if_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v judge_n he_o must_v say_v the_o prince_n and_o his_o counsel_n if_o he_o will_v make_v good_a his_o man_n cassander_n discourse_n 4._o as_o for_o michael_n de_fw-fr caesena_n who_o the_o knight_n also_o call_v a_o learned_a friar_n it_o be_v true_a he_o be_v a_o friar_n and_o general_n of_o his_o order_n but_o for_o his_o learning_n i_o never_o hear_v any_o such_o commendation_n of_o it_o but_o we_o know_v why_o the_o knight_n praise_v he_o well_o be_v it_o so_o but_o the_o man_n be_v excommunicate_v and_o depose_v by_o the_o pope_n for_o his_o disobedience_n and_o rebellion_n he_o say_v that_o particular_a man_n which_o be_v john_n 22._o be_v a_o apostata_fw-la and_o a_o heretic_n and_o therefore_o no_o true_a pope_n but_o that_o he_o make_v two_o such_o church_n one_o of_o the_o wicked_a under_o the_o pope_n another_o of_o the_o good_a without_o any_o head_n as_o morney_n make_v he_o make_v and_o this_o knight_n out_o of_o he_o i_o find_v not_o in_o any_o good_a author_n but_o rather_o that_o he_o allow_v of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o he_o appeal_v from_o the_o pope_n sentence_n to_o it_o as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o coquus_fw-la his_o answer_n to_o morney_n mystery_n of_o iniquity_n pag._n 205._o to_o 2._o and_o in_o the_o table_n verbo_fw-la michael_n de_fw-fr coesena_n neither_o be_v he_o ever_o tax_v with_o any_o such_o haeresy_n 5._o his_o english_a church-canon_n command_v nothing_o to_o be_v teach_v as_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o what_o be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n and_o be_v collect_v out_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o catholic_a bishop_n but_o what_o be_v that_o to_o the_o purpose_n how_o do_v this_o prove_v we_o to_o give_v the_o cause_n of_o contention_n he_o will_v say_v this_o prove_v his_o man_n to_o give_v none_o i_o answer_v that_o if_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o their_o canon_n and_o proceed_n be_v answerable_a to_o the_o say_n of_o this_o canon_n there_o will_v perhaps_o be_v somewhat_o less_o to_o do_v though_o it_o be_v not_o any_o way_n conformable_a to_o the_o scripture_n and_o doctrine_n of_o father_n for_o lay_v authority_n to_o make_v canon_n for_o clergy_n man_n and_o therefore_o the_o practice_n show_v in_o this_o canon_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o word_n and_o so_o the_o 2._o section_n be_v answer_v 6._o the_o three_o section_n be_v of_o corruption_n both_o in_o faith_n and_o manner_n which_o the_o knight_n say_v we_o confess_v and_o yet_o deny_v to_o reform_v he_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o council_n of_o pisa_n where_o alexander_n the_o 5._o 20._o council_n pisan_n sess_v 20._o promise_v to_o attend_v to_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n and_o out_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n acknowledge_v many_o thing_n amiss_o in_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n mass_n etc._n etc._n to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o matter_n of_o manner_n we_o willing_o acknowledge_v reformation_n to_o be_v needful_a and_o such_o it_o be_v that_o these_o two_o counsel_n speak_v of_o and_o have_v perform_v as_o be_v to_o beseene_v by_o their_o decree_n though_o the_o former_a be_v not_o of_o any_o great_a authority_n 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be_v the_o true_a explication_n of_o this_o parable_n not_o according_a to_o my_o private_a sense_n but_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o holy_a father_n and_o our_o bless_a saviour_n himself_o who_o voutsafe_v to_o explicate_v this_o parable_n unto_o we_o wherein_o as_o you_o see_v the_o goodman_n seruamt_n mark_v the_o grow_a of_o the_o cockle_n so_o must_v you_o tell_v we_o what_o pastor_n or_o doctor_n do_v ever_o note_v any_o such_o thing_n in_o any_o point_n of_o our_o doctrine_n but_o here_o sir_n humphrey_n what_o be_v to_o be_v think_v of_o you_o that_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o interpret_v scripture_n at_o your_o own_o pleasure_n and_o for_o your_o own_o end_n even_o then_o where_o our_o b._n saviour_n himself_o do_v explicate_v his_o own_o parable_n and_o mean_v thereof_o what_o i_o say_v may_v man_n think_v by_o this_o that_o you_o will_v do_v else_o where_o &_o so_o your_o chief_a gap_n or_o evasion_n for_o not_o assign_v the_o person_n time_n &_o place_n when_o 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monastery_n etc._n etc._n you_o prove_v out_o of_o one_o joannes_n ferus_fw-la a_o friar_n a_o man_n much_o in_o your_o book_n and_o the_o book_n of_o all_o your_o minister_n but_o not_o in_o any_o of_o we_o but_o only_o the_o roman_a index_n of_o forbid_v book_n and_o therefore_o of_o no_o authority_n or_o account_n with_o us._n for_o the_o rest_n of_o these_o point_n we_o have_v nothing_o but_o your_o bare_a word_n &_o surmise_n which_o be_v but_o a_o bare_a proof_n &_o not_o worth_a the_o answer_n 9_o after_o this_o the_o knight_n think_v to_o come_v upon_o we_o another_o way_n say_v that_o our_o own_o author_n who_o have_v seek_v the_o time_n and_o beginner_n of_o our_o error_n as_o he_o be_v please_v to_o call_v they_o confess_v a_o alteration_n though_o they_o do_v not_o find_v when_o it_o begin_v for_o restraint_n of_o priest_n marriage_n he_o say_v that_o marius_n can_v find_v when_o it_o come_v in_o yet_o after_o he_o bring_v polidore_n virgil_n say_v that_o priest_n 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pope_n one_o succeed_v the_o other_o in_o place_n and_o office_n exercise_v the_o same_o authority_n and_o jurisdiction_n in_o the_o sight_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n now_o out_o of_o this_o personal_a succession_n we_o catholic_n draw_v a_o most_o firm_a argument_n of_o succession_n in_o faith_n and_o belief_n as_o he_o call_v it_o as_o the_o holy_a father_n have_v ever_o do_v against_o heretic_n of_o their_o time_n which_o so_o long_o as_o it_o stand_v good_a it_o be_v in_o vain_a for_o sir_n humphrey_n and_o such_o man_n to_o cry_v out_o that_o we_o have_v no_o succession_n in_o doctrine_n let_v they_o show_v when_o where_o in_o what_o pope_n time_n and_o by_o who_o it_o be_v interrupt_v or_o break_v of_o or_o else_o they_o say_v nothing_o and_o so_o leave_v he_o to_o find_v that_o out_o i_o pass_v to_o another_o section_n 8._o chap._n 8._o of_o the_o 8._o section_n entitle_v thus_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n touch_v the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o the_o 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brag_v for_o from_o the_o time_n you_o have_v begin_v to_o be_v against_o it_o you_o be_v not_o of_o it_o and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o 18._o now_o for_o these_o point_n of_o doctrine_n by_o you_o name_v wherein_o you_o agree_v with_o we_o and_o which_o you_o have_v no_o succession_n of_o your_o own_o you_o can_v have_v it_o by_o any_o other_o mean_v but_o by_o and_o from_o we_o which_o therefore_o be_v we_o and_o not_o you_o we_o do_v not_o question_v you_o for_o your_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n but_o for_o these_o other_o point_n wherein_o you_o disagree_v as_o when_o you_o deny_v the_o doctrine_n declare_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n when_o you_o deny_v our_o seven_o sacrament_n deny_v the_o truth_n of_o one_o of_o these_o two_o sacrament_n to_o wit_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o sauiour_n body_n &_o blood_n &_o necessity_n &_o efficacy_n of_o the_o other_o to_o wit_n baptism_n deny_v our_o canon_n of_o scripture_n our_o number_n of_o counsel_n our_o tradition_n 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which_o you_o give_v it_o be_v the_o form_n and_o essence_n of_o your_o religion_n so_o long_o then_o as_o that_o be_v new_a your_o religion_n be_v new_a neither_o can_v you_o say_v the_o same_o of_o our_o point_n define_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o say_v by_o ask_v where_o our_o church_n wasâ—_n where_o our_o trent_n doctrine_n and_o article_n of_o the_o roman_a creed_n be_v receive_v de_fw-la fide_fw-la before_o luther_n this_o you_o can_v likewise_o say_v to_o we_o for_o the_o define_n make_v not_o the_o doctrine_n new_a but_o bind_v man_n by_o authority_n of_o a_o council_n to_o believe_v what_o they_o do_v believe_v plain_o by_o tradition_n 32._o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 32._o as_o vincentius_n lerinensis_n say_v that_o the_o church_n by_o the_o decree_n of_o her_o counsel_n have_v do_v nothing_o else_o but_o that_o what_o she_o have_v before_o receive_v by_o tradition_n only_o she_o shall_v also_o by_o writing_n consign_v to_o posterity_n nec_fw-la quicquam_fw-la conciliorum_fw-la suorum_fw-la decretis_fw-la catholica_fw-la perfecit_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la nisi_fw-la ut_fw-la quod_fw-la prius_fw-la a_o majoribus_fw-la sola_fw-la traditione_n susceperat_fw-la hoc_fw-la deinde_fw-la posteris_fw-la etiam_fw-la per_fw-la scripturae_fw-la chirographum_fw-la consignaret_fw-la of_o which_o see_v more_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n here_o 19_o after_o this_o you_o ask_v again_o if_o your_o doctrine_n lie_v involue_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o say_v you_o no_o romanist_n can_v deny_v if_o it_o become_v hide_v as_o good_a corn_n cover_v with_o chaff_n or_o as_o fine_a gold_n overlay_v with_o a_o great_a quantity_n of_o dross_n whether_o it_o must_v be_v therefore_o new_a and_o unknown_a because_o the_o corn_n be_v not_o sever_v from_o the_o chaff_n the_o gold_n from_o the_o dross_n before_o luther_n time_n and_o than_o you_o bid_v we_o because_o we_o call_v your_o doctrine_n novelty_n to_o remove_v the_o three_o creed_n the_o two_o sacrament_n the_o 22._o canonical_a book_n the_o 4._o first_o general_n counsel_n apostolical_a tradition_n and_o see_v whether_o our_o church_n will_v not_o prove_v a_o poor_a and_o senseless_a carcase_n this_o be_v your_o learned_a discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v ask_v first_n what_o romanist_n do_v acknowledge_v your_o doctrine_n to_o have_v lie_v involue_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v ever_o any_o man_n write_v so_o do_v ever_o any_o man_n say_v so_o unto_o you_o nay_o what_o romanist_n have_v ever_o forbear_v upon_o occasion_n offer_v to_o deny_v and_o deny_v it_o again_o you_o teach_v not_o only_o those_o be_v two_o but_o that_o there_o be_v but_o two_o sacrament_n which_o what_o romanist_n ever_o acknowledge_v to_o have_v be_v teach_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n one_o of_o your_o sacrament_n be_v a_o empty_a piece_n of_o bread_n and_o a_o sup_v of_o wine_n which_o what_o catholic_n will_v ever_o say_v be_v teach_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n you_o allow_v 4._o counsel_n and_o but_o 4._o you_o allow_v 22._o book_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n and_o but_o 22._o will_n any_o catholic_a ever_o allow_v this_o to_o have_v be_v catholic_a doctrine_n take_v away_o your_o yet_o and_o then_o it_o may_v pass_v but_o than_o you_o take_v away_o your_o religion_n but_o here_o be_v one_o thing_n that_o give_v i_o much_o cause_n of_o wonder_n which_o be_v that_o you_o talk_v of_o tradition_n as_o distinct_a from_o scripture_n which_o be_v a_o thing_n that_o i_o do_v little_o expect_v from_o a_o man_n of_o your_o profession_n and_o i_o ever_o take_v you_o to_o be_v so_o fall_v out_o with_o they_o that_o you_o make_v the_o denial_n of_o they_o a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o your_o religion_n and_o that_o therefore_o you_o will_v not_o endure_v the_o word_n tradition_n even_o in_o holy_a scripture_n where_o it_o may_v be_v take_v in_o a_o good_a sense_n but_o always_o translate_v or_o rather_o falsify_v it_o 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be_v change_v into_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o christ_n he_o do_v not_o say_v it_o confident_o and_o certain_o but_o doubtful_o and_o with_o due_a submission_n to_o better_a judgement_n and_o especial_o to_o the_o church_n saluo_fw-la meliori_fw-la iudicio_fw-la existimari_fw-la potest_fw-la etc._n etc._n be_v his_o word_n 3_o 4._o do_v 11._o q._n 3_o save_v better_a judgement_n it_o may_v be_v think_v etc._n etc._n and_o in_o answer_n of_o a_o argument_n to_o the_o contrary_a wherein_o be_v object_v the_o common_a consent_n of_o other_o against_o he_o he_o say_v that_o that_o notwithstanding_o yet_o so_o long_o as_o their_o say_n be_v not_o confirm_v by_o the_o church_n it_o be_v lawful_a to_o think_v the_o contrary_n in_o which_o word_n he_o show_v two_o thing_n one_o that_o his_o opinion_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o common_a current_n of_o the_o catholic_a doctor_n of_o his_o own_o tyme._n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o that_o which_o you_o say_v that_o he_o and_o his_o fellow_n 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that_o there_o must_v be_v some_o certain_a mean_n to_o learn_v true_a faith_n and_o belief_n in_o god_n and_o that_o if_o there_o be_v none_o such_o there_o can_v be_v no_o certainty_n will_v a_o man_n think_v that_o it_o shall_v ever_o enter_v into_o any_o man_n mind_n to_o say_v that_o the_o affirm_v of_o this_o infallibility_n be_v the_o way_n to_o atheism_n whereas_o the_o denial_n thereof_o be_v the_o most_o direct_a way_n that_o can_v be_v imagine_v unto_o atheism_n for_o take_v this_o infallibility_n away_o and_o there_o be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n if_o no_o rule_n no_o faith_n if_o no_o faith_n no_o right_a belief_n in_o god_n which_o be_v the_o height_n of_o atheism_n 2._o but_o because_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v not_o capable_a of_o this_o discourse_n as_o evident_a and_o demonstrative_a as_o it_o be_v i_o will_v go_v about_o with_o you_o another_o way_n i_o will_v know_v of_o you_o whither_o if_o we_o shall_v take_v away_o the_o holy_a scripture_n or_o write_v word_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v in_o you_o judgement_n that_o the_o whole_a christian_a faith_n may_v be_v call_v in_o question_n i_o say_v in_o your_o judgement_n for_o whether_o it_o will_v or_o will_v not_o in_o i_o i_o do_v not_o say_v any_o thing_n here_o certain_o it_o will_v for_o some_o rule_n man_n must_v have_v and_o that_o be_v your_o only_a rule_n now_o again_o do_v not_o you_o know_v that_o s._n gregory_n the_o great_a do_v often_o say_v &_o write_v that_o he_o do_v hold_v the_o four_o first_o counsel_n in_o the_o same_o honour_n that_o he_o do_v the_o 4._o ghospel_n which_o be_v the_o same_o as_o to_o say_v they_o can_v as_o little_o err_v as_o the_o 4._o ghospel_n why_o may_v it_o not_o then_o follow_v that_o upon_o denial_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o those_o 4._o counsel_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o christian_a faith_n may_v be_v shake_v as_o well_o as_o by_o denial_n of_o the_o gospel_n 3._o v._o bâ—ll_n lib._n 2._o the_o council_n cap._n 3._o and_o this_o which_o i_o say_v of_o s._n gregory_n i_o may_v say_v of_o many_o other_o father_n in_o regard_n of_o all_o or_o some_o of_o those_o 4._o counsel_n and_o particular_o of_o that_o of_o nice_n which_o whosoever_o shall_v have_v deny_v be_v no_o less_o to_o have_v be_v count_v a_o haeretique_n then_o if_o he_o shall_v have_v deny_v the_o gospel_n 1_o 1._o eliz_n 1_o &_o you_o yourselves_o in_o your_o parliament_n law_n give_v great_a authority_n to_o those_o 4._o first_o counsel_n &_o even_o as_o much_o if_o you_o understand_v yourselves_o well_o &_o speak_v consequent_o as_o s._n gregory_n do_v for_o you_o be_v content_a to_o acknowledge_v for_o heresy_n whatsoever_o be_v condemn_v for_o such_o by_o any_o of_o they_o which_o be_v in_o other_o word_n to_o acknowledge_v they_o for_o a_o rule_n of_o faith_n &_o consequent_o of_o infallible_a authority_n you_o join_v they_o in_o the_o same_o rank_n with_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n you_o give_v also_o the_o like_a authority_n to_o other_o general_a counsel_n but_o with_o this_o lymitation_n that_o these_o late_a must_v have_v express_a scripture_n whereby_o to_o condemn_v a_o thing_n for_o heresy_n but_o which_o be_v most_o of_o all_o to_o be_v note_v in_o the_o same_o statute_n you_o give_v power_n to_o the_o court_n of_o parliament_n with_o the_o assent_n of_o the_o clergy_n in_o their_o convocation_n to_o adjudge_v or_o determine_v a_o matter_n to_o be_v heresy_n which_o be_v the_o very_a same_o as_o to_o give_v it_o power_n to_o declare_v faith_n or_o to_o be_v a_o rule_n thereof_o which_o if_o it_o may_v agree_v to_o such_o a_o assembly_n or_o court_n of_o a_o temporal_a prince_n and_o kingdom_n i_o see_v not_o why_o it_o may_v not_o agree_v to_o a_o
general_n council_n as_o be_v the_o parliament_n of_o christ_n his_o church_n to_o which_o he_o have_v promise_v his_o special_a assistance_n but_o this_o be_v by_o the_o way_n 3._o now_o out_o of_o this_o authority_n which_o you_o grant_v to_o those_o ancient_a counsel_n i_o go_v a_o little_a far_o with_o you_o and_o ask_v what_o you_o can_v say_v more_o against_o the_o present_a church_n and_o present_a council_n of_o trent_n then_o against_o the_o church_n of_o that_o time_n &_o counsel_n of_o those_o time_n whatsoever_o you_o can_v say_v of_o the_o church_n now_o that_o it_o may_v err_v may_v as_o well_o be_v say_v of_o the_o church_n of_o that_o tyme._n for_o our_o sauiour_n promise_n for_o the_o perpetuity_n &_o infallibility_n thereof_o be_v as_o much_o for_o one_o time_n as_o another_o for_o our_o time_n now_o as_o for_o those_o then_o what_o you_o say_v now_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n that_o it_o be_v disclaim_v by_o a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n may_v be_v say_v much_o more_o of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a which_o be_v gain_v say_v both_o by_o more_o &_o other_o manner_n of_o man_n than_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n &_o the_o same_o may_v be_v also_o say_v of_o some_o of_o the_o rest_n &_o so_o forth_o of_o any_o thing_n else_o that_o you_o can_v object_v wherefore_o to_o conclude_v if_o it_o be_v not_o atheism_n to_o say_v then_o that_o by_o question_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o nicene_n decree_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o whole_a christian_a faith_n may_v be_v question_v i_o see_v not_o why_o it_o shall_v be_v atheism_n to_o say_v the_o same_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n but_o you_o think_v it_o be_v atheism_n to_o deny_v the_o scripture_n alone_o to_o be_v sufficient_a for_o that_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o your_o inference_n but_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o all_o catholic_n say_v they_o be_v not_o so_o and_o yet_o they_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v a_o god_n and_o honour_n and_o worship_v he_o as_o their_o god_n but_o this_o of_o the_o alone_a sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n be_v a_o several_a matter_n of_o itself_o only_o for_o your_o place_n of_o s._n paul_n it_o be_v plain_a you_o pervert_v it_o for_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o write_a word_n but_o of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n by_o he_o preach_v as_o be_v manifest_a by_o his_o own_o very_a word_n there_o which_o be_v these_o 20.20_o act._n 20.20_o vos_fw-fr scitis_fw-la quomodo_fw-la nihil_fw-la subtraxerim_n utilium_fw-la quominus_fw-la annunciarem_fw-la vobis_fw-la &_o docerem_fw-la vos_fw-la publicae_fw-la &_o per_fw-la domos_fw-la testificans_fw-la etc._n etc._n you_o know_v how_o i_o have_v withdraw_v nothing_o that_o be_v profitable_a but_o that_o i_o preach_v it_o unto_o you_o and_o teach_v you_o open_o and_o from_o house_n to_o house_n testify_v to_o jew_n and_o gentile_n penance_n towards_o god_n and_o faith_n in_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n for_o neither_o have_v s._n paul_n then_o write_v his_o epistle_n to_o the_o ephesian_n to_o who_o he_o there_o speak_v for_o he_o write_v it_o out_o of_o prison_n from_o rome_n and_o even_o the_o second_o time_n of_o his_o imprisonment_n which_o be_v many_o year_n after_o this_o speech_n whereas_o at_o the_o time_n of_o this_o speech_n he_o be_v but_o go_v to_o jerusalem_n where_o be_v take_v after_o some_o time_n of_o imprisonment_n he_o be_v send_v to_o rome_n and_o you_o may_v as_o well_o have_v aleadge_v those_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n to_o his_o disciple_n all_o that_o i_o have_v hear_v from_o my_o father_n i_o have_v make_v know_v to_o you_o 15.15_o io._n 15.15_o as_o these_o of_o s._n paul_n and_o yet_o be_v well_o know_v our_o saviour_n do_v not_o deliver_v any_o one_o word_n in_o write_v to_o his_o apostle_n neither_o do_v bellarmine_n saying_n help_v you_o any_o thing_n for_o though_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v necessary_a for_o all_o in_o general_a to_o know_v which_o be_v but_o few_o be_v write_v there_o be_v yet_o many_o more_o not_o write_v which_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v know_v by_o some_o in_o the_o church_n though_o not_o by_o all_o now_o for_o the_o curse_n which_o you_o be_v content_a shall_v light_v upon_o you_o if_o we_o show_v the_o number_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n to_o have_v be_v the_o belief_n of_o the_o church_n for_o a_o thousand_o year_n after_o christ_n be_v not_o too_o forward_o to_o draw_v malediction_n upon_o yourself_o it_o will_v come_v fast_o enough_o to_o your_o cost_n it_o be_v a_o heavy_a thing_n than_o you_o be_v aware_a of_o to_o have_v the_o curse_n of_o a_o mother_n and_o such_o a_o mother_n as_o the_o church_n which_o do_v not_o curse_v without_o cause_n nor_o out_o of_o passion_n for_o as_o the_o scripture_n say_v maledictio_fw-la matris_fw-la eradicat_fw-la fundamenta_fw-la 3.11_o eccle._n 3.11_o the_o malediction_n of_o a_o mother_n do_v root_n out_o the_o foundation_n 4._o have_v thus_o praeface_v against_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n you_o come_v near_o to_o the_o matter_n give_v we_o a_o new_a definition_n of_o a_o sacrament_n to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v a_o seal_n witness_v to_o our_o conscience_n that_o god_n promise_n be_v true_a for_o as_o you_o say_v god_n by_o his_o word_n declare_v his_o mercy_n and_o seal_v and_o assure_v it_o by_o his_o sacrament_n and_o in_o the_o word_n we_o hear_v his_o promise_n in_o the_o sacrament_n we_o see_v they_o out_o of_o which_o you_o infer_v baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n to_o be_v proper_a sacrament_n because_o in_o they_o the_o element_n be_v join_v to_o the_o word_n and_o they_o take_v their_o ordinance_n from_o christ_n &_o be_v visible_a sign_n of_o a_o invisible_a save_a grace_n in_o which_o word_n be_v contain_v another_o far_o different_a definition_n of_o a_o sacrament_n have_v no_o manner_n of_o connexion_n or_o dependence_n upon_o the_o former_a out_o of_o which_o again_o you_o infer_v that_o the_o other_o 5._o beside_o baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n be_v no_o sacrement_n not_o confirmation_n because_o it_o be_v not_o institute_v by_o christ_n not_o pennance_n &_o order_n because_o they_o have_v no_o outward_a element_n not_o matrimony_n because_o it_o be_v before_o christ_n time_n and_o be_v common_a to_o turk_n and_o infidel_n neither_o do_v you_o see_v forsooth_o how_o it_o can_v be_v a_o holy_a thing_n and_o yet_o forbid_v as_o it_o be_v to_o priest_n and_o from_o this_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o if_o the_o curse_n of_o the_o council_n take_v place_n than_o woe_n to_o all_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o who_o you_o name_v these_o follow_v ambrose_n austin_n chrysostome_n bede_n isidore_n alexander_n of_o hales_n cyprian_n durand_n and_o bessarion_n this_o be_v your_o discourse_n 5._o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o your_o formet_fw-la definition_n it_o be_v a_o senseless_a one_o without_o ground_n in_o any_o father_n 16._o lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr sâ—tâ—r_n in_o gen_fw-la cap._n 14._o &_o 16._o or_o other_o author_n but_o only_a kemnitius_n and_o caluin_n and_o which_o be_v large_o refute_v and_o prove_v most_o absurd_a by_o bellarmine_n to_o who_o i_o remit_v you_o for_o how_o can_v the_o sacrament_n be_v seal_n or_o give_v we_o aâ—â—urance_n of_o his_o word_n when_o all_o the_o assurance_n we_o have_v of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v his_o word_n this_o be_v idem_fw-la per_fw-la idem_fw-la beside_o what_o promise_n be_v these_o that_o be_v seal_v or_o if_o they_o be_v seal_n what_o need_v we_o more_o seal_n or_o sacrament_n than_o one_o or_o if_o there_o may_v be_v more_o why_o not_o seven_o as_o well_o as_o two_o again_o how_o do_v we_o see_v the_o promise_n of_o god_n in_o the_o sacrament_n when_o a_o man_n have_v receive_v the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n what_o other_o assurance_n have_v he_o that_o his_o sin_n be_v forgive_v or_o that_o he_o be_v the_o child_n of_o god_n and_o heir_n of_o his_o kingdom_n than_o the_o word_n of_o god_n promise_v that_o virtue_n to_o the_o sacrament_n or_o how_o can_v any_o man_n see_v by_o the_o sacrament_n that_o he_o be_v so_o these_o be_v but_o foolish_a fancy_n breed_v in_o haeretical_a brain_n and_o so_o to_o be_v contemn_v for_o your_o other_o definition_n it_o be_v not_o much_o better_a be_v melancthons_n supra_fw-la vbi_fw-la supra_fw-la relate_v and_o refute_v by_o bellarm._n which_o therefore_o i_o leave_v and_o answer_v only_o that_o which_o you_o say_v that_o two_o sacrament_n have_v the_o word_n and_o element_n and_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n the_o other_o 5._o not_o for_o confirmation_n and_o extreme_a unction_n you_o can_v deny_v the_o element_n and_o word_n to_o wit_n oil_n and_o the_o form_n but_o you_o deny_v the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n for_o proof_n of_o which_o and_o other_o particular_n it_o will_v be_v too_o long_o to_o stand_v upon_o it_o
scripture_n which_o they_o stand_v upon_o he_o answer_v thus_o et_fw-la etiam_fw-la si_fw-la sacrae_fw-la scripturae_fw-la authoritas_fw-la non_fw-la subesset_fw-la lucifer_n dialog_n 2._o con_v lucifer_n totius_fw-la orbis_fw-la in_o hanc_fw-la partem_fw-la consensus_fw-la instar_fw-la praecepti_fw-la obtineret_fw-la and_o although_o the_o authority_n of_o holy_a scripture_n be_v want_v the_o consent_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n on_o this_o side_n shall_v have_v the_o force_n of_o a_o precept_n and_o so_o there_o be_v a_o end_n of_o this_o 5._o §_o of_o prayer_n and_o service_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n §._o 6._o 1._o in_o this_o §_o the_o knight_n speak_v against_o the_o practice_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n in_o two_o thing_n one_o be_v for_o use_v the_o public_a service_n in_o a_o tongue_n not_o know_v to_o the_o vulgar_a people_n another_o for_o say_v some_o part_n of_o the_o mass_n with_o a_o loud_a voice_n so_o as_o the_o people_n can_v hear_v the_o 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another_o the_o council_n say_v that_o though_o the_o mass_n contain_v great_a instruction_n yet_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n you_o tell_v we_o the_o council_n by_o consequence_n do_v affirm_v it_o to_o follow_v the_o council_n think_v it_o better_a to_o retain_v the_o general_a and_o long_o continue_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o not_o use_v the_o vulgar_a tongue_n in_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n but_o for_o instruction_n of_o the_o people_n to_o interpret_v something_o of_o what_o be_v read_v you_o say_v it_o approve_v the_o contrary_a custom_n of_o your_o church_n if_o it_o have_v so_o have_v it_o not_o be_v a_o easy_a matter_n to_o have_v appoint_v it_o to_o be_v read_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n but_o the_o council_n know_v well_o that_o course_n be_v not_o so_o fit_a neither_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o public_a good_a of_o the_o church_n nor_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o private_a good_a of_o the_o faithful_a 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many_o several_a translation_n not_o only_o in_o several_a country_n but_o by_o several_a translation_n in_o every_o country_n of_o any_o small_a extent_n even_o in_o the_o same_o place_n upon_o a_o little_a change_n of_o time_n for_o as_o we_o see_v in_o every_o age_n the_o vulgar_a language_n recive_v a_o great_a alternation_n of_o which_o translation_n the_o church_n will_v not_o be_v able_a any_o way_n to_o judge_v scripture_n be_v the_o hard_a thing_n to_o translate_v of_o all_o other_o &_o which_o therefore_o for_o the_o well_o translate_n thereof_o require_v the_o special_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o no_o private_a man_n can_v promise_v himself_o last_o the_o use_n of_o a_o vulgar_a language_n in_o such_o thing_n will_v breed_v a_o great_a contempt_n of_o sacred_a thing_n with_o profane_v and_o irreligiosity_n beside_o the_o danger_n of_o haeresy_n which_o come_v no_o way_n soon_o than_o by_o misunderstanding_n of_o holy_a scripture_n neither_o be_v any_o more_o apt_a to_o mis-understand_v it_o than_o the_o simple_a sort_n of_o people_n if_o they_o once_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o understand_v these_o reason_n then_o among_o other_o but_o most_o of_o all_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n draw_v even_o from_o the_o apostle_n by_o perpetual_a succession_n and_o practice_n may_v persuade_v the_o council_n to_o think_v that_o though_o some_o benefitt_a might_n come_v to_o some_o few_o particular_a man_n by_o understanding_n what_o be_v write_v yet_o it_o be_v absolute_o better_a to_o retain_v the_o same_o custom_n still_o and_o even_o to_o remedy_v that_o inconvenience_n another_o way_n to_o wit_n by_o explain_v something_o of_o what_o be_v read_v in_o the_o mass_n which_o the_o council_n declare_v by_o a_o similitude_n very_o proper_a for_o the_o purpose_n to_o wit_n by_o break_v of_o bread_n to_o little_a one_o fort_n it_o be_v even_o as_o necessary_a for_o ordinary_a people_n to_o have_v the_o scripture_n so_o declare_v as_o for_o 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you_o and_o they_o be_v 10._o as_o for_o that_o which_o you_o say_v out_o of_o mr._n fisher_n that_o though_o there_o be_v no_o express_a practice_n or_o precept_n of_o worship_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n yet_o there_o be_v principle_n which_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n suppose_v convince_v adoration_n to_o be_v lawful_a it_o be_v as_o well_o and_o true_o say_v by_o he_o as_o that_o be_v false_o foolish_o &_o impertinent_o which_o you_o say_v thereupon_o that_o from_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o grace_n we_o be_v come_v to_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o to_o declare_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n by_o the_o light_n thereof_o mr._n fisher_n say_v the_o light_n of_o nature_n show_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a which_o be_v true_a you_o say_v he_o declare_v it_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n from_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n which_o be_v false_a there_o be_v great_a difference_n between_o those_o two_o to_o be_v lawful_a and_o to_o be_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n the_o light_n of_o nature_n 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falsehood_n or_o impossibility_n and_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v the_o gift_n and_o law_n alsoe_o of_o god_n why_o then_o shall_v you_o speak_v so_o contemptible_o of_o it_o but_o only_o that_o you_o want_v it_o in_o great_a part_n and_o consequent_o know_v not_o the_o worth_n thereof_o 11._o but_o it_o be_v strange_a here_o to_o see_v how_o though_o you_o can_v find_v in_o your_o hart_n to_o allow_v the_o light_n of_o nature_n allege_v for_o adoration_n of_o image_n you_o can_v allege_v it_o against_o they_o but_o even_o as_o wise_o as_o you_o deny_v it_o for_o they_o you_o say_v varro_n a_o heathen_a philosopher_n by_o the_o instinct_n of_o nature_n profess_v the_o contrary_a by_o say_v the_o god_n be_v better_o serve_v without_o image_n the_o latin_a be_v castius_fw-la dij_fw-la obseruantur_fw-la sine_fw-la simulachris_fw-la 31._o aug._n 4._o de_fw-fr civit._n ca._n 31._o which_o say_v you_o tell_v we_o s._n aug._n comend_v and_o so_o he_o do_v indeed_o but_o understand_v he_o far_o otherwise_o than_o you_o do_v for_o he_o do_v take_v simulachrum_fw-la not_o for_o a_o image_n as_o you_o do_v false_o but_o for_o a_o idol_n as_o it_o be_v indeed_o and_o so_o commend_v varro_n for_o come_v near_o to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o true_a god_n and_o go_v far_o from_o idolatry_n in_o that_o he_o neither_o acknowledge_v any_o deity_n in_o those_o material_a idol_n nor_o that_o multiplicity_n of_o god_n but_o rather_o allow_v the_o opinion_n of_o they_o that_o hold_v that_o god_n be_v the_o soul_n of_o the_o world_n which_o though_o it_o be_v also_o a_o error_n in_o he_o yet_o s._n augustine_n say_v it_o come_v near_a to_o truth_n in_o that_o it_o teach_v but_o one_o god_n and_o he_o not_o a_o material_a or_o corporal_a but_o a_o spiritual_a and_o invisible_a substance_n for_o proof_n whereof_o varro_n allege_v that_o for_o above_o a_o hundred_o year_n the_o roman_n have_v worship_v their_o god_n without_o those_o material_a idol_n which_o whosoever_o bring_v in_o say_v he_o do_v take_v a_o way_n the_o fear_n and_o add_v or_o increase_v the_o error_n he_o mean_v that_o they_o that_o bring_v in_o those_o idol_n take_v away_o all_o fear_n of_o the_o god_n because_o man_n see_v those_o idol_n propose_v for_o god_n contemn_v they_o and_o this_o be_v that_o which_o he_o say_v castiùs_fw-la dij_fw-la obseruantur_fw-la sine_fw-la simulachris_fw-la the_o god_n be_v more_o chaste_o or_o pure_o observe_v or_o fear_v without_o those_o idol_n now_o what_o be_v this_o against_o us._n do_v not_o we_o say_v the_o same_o thing_n much_o more_o ample_o and_o more_o full_o i_o see_v not_o then_o why_o you_o shall_v bring_v it_o unless_o it_o be_v to_o usher_v in_o a_o thing_n which_o you_o have_v out_o of_o eusebius_n to_o give_v the_o reason_n as_o you_o say_v why_o these_o father_n condemn_v the_o worshipper_n of_o image_n for_o haeretique_n and_o idolater_n in_o these_o word_n because_o say_v eusebius_n the_o man_n of_o old_a of_o a_o heathenish_a custom_n be_v wont_v after_o that_o manner_n to_o honour_v such_o as_o they_o count_v saviour_n whereupon_o you_o say_v that_o after_o image_n have_v get_v foot_v among_o christian_n the_o bishop_n and_o emperor_n by_o counsel_n and_o command_n take_v special_a care_n to_o prevent_v both_o the_o make_n and_o worship_v they_o and_o thereto_o you_o bring_v a_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o eliberis_n that_o no_o picture_n shall_v be_v in_o church_n lest_o that_o which_o be_v worship_v shall_v be_v paint_v on_o the_o wall_n and_o a_o authority_n out_o of_o the_o civil_a law_n of_o a_o decree_n make_v against_o adoration_n of_o image_n which_o i_o shall_v cite_v when_o i_o come_v to_o answer_n it_o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n wherein_o you_o have_v give_v so_o sufficient_a testimony_n of_o notorious_a bad_a deal_n especial_o in_o the_o 2._o place_n of_o eusebius_n and_o of_o the_o civil_a law_n that_o if_o there_o be_v nothing_o else_o falsify_v or_o corrupt_v in_o your_o 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follow_v curiosity_n become_v christian_n confess_v their_o deed_n and_o burn_v their_o book_n so_o we_o see_v afterward_o the_o book_n of_o arius_n be_v command_v to_o be_v burn_v and_o man_n forbid_v to_o keep_v they_o under_o pain_n of_o death_n 6._o socrat._v hist_o lib._n 1._o cap._n 6._o and_o so_o of_o other_o which_o i_o will_v not_o here_o stand_v upon_o only_o content_v myself_o with_o one_o example_n of_o this_o kind_n which_o for_o the_o antiquity_n and_o authority_n may_v be_v both_o proof_n and_o warrant_n for_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n now_o at_o this_o time_n wherein_o the_o haeretique_n do_v so_o much_o cry_v out_o against_o the_o inquisition_n and_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la 2._o this_o example_n be_v that_o of_o gelasius_n 1_o pope_n about_o the_o year_n 490._o who_o in_o a_o council_n at_o rome_n gather_v for_o that_o end_n make_v a_o decree_n to_o declare_v what_o scripture_n be_v canonical_a what_o father_n and_o doctor_n may_v be_v safe_o 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this_o prove_a succession_n of_o pastor_n in_o his_o church_n 4._o chap._n 4._o without_o which_o no_o church_n can_v be_v visible_a it_o be_v clear_a it_o do_v not_o but_o because_o this_o be_v a_o general_a fault_n throughout_o his_o whole_a book_n i_o will_v not_o stand_v note_v it_o in_o every_o section_n apart_o but_o this_o general_a note_n may_v serve_v for_o all_o to_o begin_v here_o with_o the_o title_n of_o this_o section_n if_o by_o popery_n he_o understand_v as_o i_o suppose_v he_o do_v that_o faith_n which_o we_o catholic_n profess_v under_o the_o pope_n as_o our_o supreme_a pastor_n than_o it_o be_v foolish_o say_v of_o he_o that_o some_o have_v renounce_v the_o same_o in_o part_n for_o no_o man_n can_v renounce_v the_o catholic_a faith_n in_o part_n it_o be_v indivisible_a but_o he_o that_o cease_v to_o believe_v one_o point_n cease_v to_o believe_v any_o one_o as_o he_o shall_v that_o be_v by_o way_n of_o true_a divine_a faith_n 2._o now_o to_o prove_v what_o he_o 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acknowledge_v inhaerent_a justification_n which_o caluin_n deni_v though_o in_o this_o he_o err_v that_o he_o think_v that_o inhaerent_a justify_n form_n to_o be_v imperfect_a and_o insufficient_a of_o itself_o to_o make_v man_n the_o adoptive_a child_n of_o god_n without_o the_o imputative_a justice_n of_o christ_n which_o alsoe_o be_v not_o so_o much_o caluinisme_n as_o lutheranisme_n but_o be_v it_o what_o it_o will_v bellarmine_n excuse_v pighius_fw-la in_o another_o respect_n to_o wit_n because_o he_o do_v not_o obstinate_o defend_v the_o error_n as_o caluin_n or_o luther_n do_v which_o be_v the_o main_a difference_n for_o it_o be_v not_o the_o error_n but_o the_o obstinacy_n that_o make_v a_o haeretique_n and_o so_o you_o see_v sir_n knight_n you_o have_v not_o one_o true_a word_n in_o all_o this_o section_n but_o let_v we_o now_o see_v your_o next_o 5._o chap._n 5._o the_o knight_n 5._o section_n wherein_o he_o undertake_v to_o show_v how_o worldly_a policy_n and_o profitt_a hinder_v the_o reformation_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v unexcusable_a in_o themselves_o chapter_n v._n 1._o of_o this_o section_n there_o be_v not_o much_o to_o be_v say_v for_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o it_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o rave_v for_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o now_o he_o see_v trental_n mass_n diriges_fw-la requiem_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a indulgence_n purgatory_n etc._n etc._n make_v article_n of_o faith_n he_o despayr_v of_o reformation_n to_o which_o i_o need_v make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o good_a sign_n that_o he_o find_v at_o last_o the_o strength_n of_o the_o church_n so_o build_v upon_o a_o rock_n as_o no_o tempest_n or_o wind_n can_v shake_v it_o but_o rather_o that_o by_o storm_n and_o tempest_n it_o grow_v strong_a the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v strengthen_v against_o all_o haeretique_n by_o the_o great_a authority_n on_o earth_n to_o wit_n a_o general_a council_n confirm_v by_o the_o see_v apostolic_a again_o he_o despair_n when_o he_o see_v maldonat_n say_v as_o he_o tell_v we_o practise_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n against_o his_o church_n and_o doctrine_n to_o wit_n he_o that_o be_v maldonate_fw-it interpret_n a_o place_n of_o s._n john_n allow_v s._n augustin_n explication_n as_o most_o probable_a though_o he_o rather_o approve_v another_o of_o his_o own_o because_o it_o more_o cross_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o caluinist_n this_o be_v it_o that_o drive_v he_o in_o to_o despair_v alas_o poor_a sir_n humphrey_n be_v all_o your_o bravery_n come_v to_o this_o what_o your_o hart_n fail_v you_o so_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o it_o be_v no_o wonder_n such_o a_o cause_n may_v well_o make_v you_o despair_n and_o by_o your_o despair_n you_o show_v your_o doctrine_n to_o be_v false_a for_o true_a doctrine_n lose_v nothing_o by_o be_v impugn_a but_o rather_o gain_v as_o experience_n show_v in_o the_o catholic_a faith_n of_o which_o be_v verify_v the_o say_n of_o the_o prophest_n 11.7_o psal_n 11.7_o eloquia_fw-la domini_fw-la eloquia_fw-la casta_fw-la argentum_fw-la igne_fw-la examinatum_fw-la probatum_fw-la terrae_fw-la purgatum_fw-la septuplum_fw-la word_n of_o our_o lord_n be_v chaste_a word_n silver_n examine_v by_o fire_n try_v of_o the_o earth_n purge_v seven_o fold_n fire_n try_v but_o consume_v not_o gold_n but_o dross_n it_o show_v to_o be_v dross_n by_o consume_v it_o for_o maldonat_n he_o approve_v and_o commend_v s._n augustin_n explication_n but_o add_v another_o of_o his_o own_o not_o contrary_a nor_o disagree_v though_o different_a from_o it_o he_o prefer_v it_o because_o it_o be_v more_o against_o a_o haeretique_n so_o it_o be_v like_o s._n aug._n himself_o will_v also_o have_v do_v if_o he_o have_v be_v alive_a in_o these_o time_n for_o it_o be_v well_o know_v how_o in_o expound_v of_o scripture_n he_o still_o have_v regard_n to_o the_o confutation_n of_o these_o heresy_n which_o then_o reign_v and_o in_o one_o place_n he_o advise_v io._n tract_n 2._o in_o ep_n 1._o io._n that_o those_o passage_n of_o scripture_n be_v most_o careful_o observe_v and_o remember_v which_o make_v most_o against_o haeretique_n 2._o after_o this_o the_o knight_n have_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o foolish_a stuff_n which_o need_v no_o answer_n be_v but_o a_o bare_a recital_n of_o thing_n as_o for_o example_n our_o wrest_v the_o scripture_n his_o agreement_n of_o doctrine_n with_o the_o father_n nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n in_o this_o place_n and_o then_o he_o cry_v out_o against_o our_o alter_v the_o commandment_n which_o be_v before_o answer_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n prayer_n to_o saint_n and_o in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n which_o shall_v be_v afterward_o answer_v only_o in_o this_o place_n i_o note_v in_o a_o word_n this_o wise_a question_n of_o he_o what_o reason_n say_v he_o can_v be_v allege_v why_o a_o ignorant_a man_n shall_v pray_v without_o understanding_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v with_o a_o contrary_a demand_n to_o wit_n how_o a_o ignorant_a man_n that_o be_v one_o that_o want_v knowledge_n or_o understanding_n shall_v pray_v with_o understanding_n and_o so_o i_o leave_v he_o of_o the_o 6._o section_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o 6._o chap._n 6._o the_o common_a pretence_n of_o our_o adversary_n refuse_v reformation_n because_o we_o can_v assign_v the_o praecise_a time_n when_o error_n come_v in_o refute_v chapter_n vi._n 1._o here_o the_o knight_n be_v up_o again_o with_o his_o reformation_n and_o complain_v that_o we_o will_v not_o admit_v thereof_o nor_o acknowledge_v our_o doctrine_n erroneous_a unless_o he_o can_v assign_v the_o time_n and_o person_n when_o and_o by_o who_o the_o error_n come_v in_o which_o he_o seem_v to_o acknowledge_v he_o can_v do_v for_o he_o never_o go_v about_o it_o but_o only_o labour_v to_o disprove_v our_o exception_n against_o he_o by_o say_v that_o a_o man_n that_o be_v sick_a of_o a_o consumption_n ought_v not_o to_o refuse_v the_o help_n of_o the_o physician_n upon_o pretence_n that_o he_o can_v not_o tell_v the_o time_n and_o occasion_n when_o his_o body_n begin_v first_o to_o be_v distemper_v and_o out_o of_o s._n aug._n he_o say_v that_o when_o a_o man_n be_v fall_v into_o a_o pit_n and_o call_v to_o a_o passenger_n for_o help_n 19_o ep._n 19_o the_o passenger_n must_v not_o refuse_v to_o help_v he_o out_o upon_o pretence_n that_o he_o see_v not_o how_o he_o shall_v come_v to_o fall_v in_o he_o prove_v it_o also_o as_o he_o think_v out_o of_o scripture_n because_o in_o the_o parable_n of_o the_o cockle_n it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o enemy_n sow_v it_o when_o man_n be_v a_o sleep_n out_o of_o which_o he_o infer_v that_o they_o can_v not_o see_v or_o know_v he_o therefore_o he_o say_v that_o this_o defection_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o secret_a apostasy_n 13._o matth._n 13._o and_o therein_o he_o make_v the_o difference_n between_o haeresy_n and_o apostasy_n that_o haeresy_n be_v preach_v open_o so_o as_o the_o time_n and_o person_n may_v be_v name_v but_o not_o so_o this_o our_o secret_a apostasy_n haeresy_n work_v in_o the_o day_n apostasy_n in_o the_o night_n and_o then_o he_o reckon_v up_o some_o point_n as_o worship_v of_o image_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a the_o primacy_n of_o s._n peter_n and_o some_o other_o which_o he_o say_v be_v not_o so_o mean_v aâ—_n first_o as_o they_o be_v now_o practtize_v and_o believe_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n this_o be_v his_o jolly_a discourse_n frame_v in_o his_o own_o brain_n pan_n and_o sure_o ground_v as_o you_o shall_v find_v upon_o examination_n thereof_o which_o now_o i_o come_v unto_o 2._o he_o compare_v the_o creep_a in_o of_o error_n to_o the_o grow_v of_o a_o sickness_n in_o a_o man_n body_n and_o presume_v that_o because_o he_o say_v it_o we_o must_v therefore_o take_v those_o thing_n which_o he_o will_v have_v we_o for_o error_n he_o will_v present_o have_v we_o also_o fall_v to_o correct_v they_o without_o stand_v to_o examine_v far_o no_o more_o than_o a_o physician_n shall_v that_o come_v to_o a_o sick_a man_n but_o his_o comparison_n fail_v exceed_o for_o though_o there_o be_v some_o little_a likeness_n between_o the_o creep_a in_o of_o error_n and_o grow_v of_o a_o disease_n in_o a_o man_n body_n because_o both_o begin_v little_a and_o stel_o and_o increase_v by_o degree_n yet_o to_o our_o purpose_n none_o at_o all_o for_o the_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o we_o shall_v fall_v to_o cure_v the_o disease_n without_o examine_v the_o cause_n though_o by_o your_o good_a leave_n sir_n knight_n good_a physician_n use_v to_o inquire_v of_o the_o cause_n effect_n and_o other_o circumstance_n of_o the_o sickness_n which_o they_o come_v to_o cure_v but_o whether_o this_o that_o you_o say_v be_v a_o disease_n or_o sickness_n be_v so_o or_o no_o
only_o whither_o this_o particular_a host_n be_v right_o consecrate_v manifest_o suppose_v that_o if_o that_o be_v christ_n be_v true_o there_o three_o that_o other_o condition_n or_o word_n adoro_fw-la te_fw-la si_fw-la tu_fw-la es_fw-la christus_fw-la which_o he_o will_v make_v a_o man_n believe_v be_v speak_v by_o adrian_n of_o the_o most_o b._n sacrament_n be_v speak_v of_o the_o devil_n take_v upon_o he_o the_o shape_n of_o christ_n 6._o now_o what_o gross_a delusion_n be_v this_o what_o excuse_n can_v you_o find_v for_o it_o sir_n humphrey_n but_o suppose_v adrian_n have_v err_v in_o this_o or_o in_o any_o other_o particular_a point_n either_o ignorant_o as_o a_o catholic_a may_v or_o wilful_o as_o only_a haeretique_n do_v do_v it_o follow_v that_o he_o agree_v with_o you_o in_o all_o other_o or_o that_o hee-counteth_a your_o faith_n ancient_a universal_a certain_a or_o safe_a noe_o such_o matter_n nay_o how_o on_o the_o contrary_n he_o abhor_v &_o detest_v your_o doctrine_n as_o most_o wicked_a and_o damnable_a be_v plain_o to_o be_v see_v by_o a_o bull_n which_o he_o write_v to_o frederick_n duke_n of_o saxony_n against_o luther_n and_o his_o doctrine_n disprove_v every_o point_n thereof_o exhort_v the_o say_a frederick_n to_o forsake_v it_o and_o return_n to_o the_o true_a catholic_a faith_n now_o in_o the_o day_n of_o adrian_n pope_n and_o charles_n emperor_n as_o the_o saxon_n do_v at_o first_o embrace_v it_o in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o first_o pope_n and_o emperor_n of_o the_o same_o name_n and_o then_o live_v together_o with_o a_o great_a deal_n to_o the_o same_o purpose_n what_o madness_n then_o be_v it_o to_o allege_v a_o catholic_a divine_a a_o pope_n and_o such_o a_o pope_n for_o the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o your_o belief_n 7._o now_o for_o costerus_n you_o say_v he_o excuse_v the_o take_v away_o of_o the_o cup_n from_o the_o laity_n but_o if_o you_o will_v give_v a_o man_n leave_v to_o be_v so_o bold_a with_o your_o worship_n i_o will_v know_v what_o excuse_v you_o can_v find_v for_o such_o a_o notorious_a lie_n if_o he_o excuse_v it_o he_o acknowledge_v the_o thing_n to_o need_v excuse_n and_o consequent_o to_o be_v ill_o and_o i_o pray_v you_o where_o do_v you_o find_v he_o do_v that_o noe_o where_o very_o for_o he_o have_v one_o special_a title_n of_o this_o controversy_n wherein_o he_o prove_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n in_o this_o point_n by_o ten_o several_a reason_n and_o solu_v sixteen_o objection_n as_o well_o of_o former_a as_o late_a haeretique_n against_o it_o if_o this_o be_v to_o excuse_v i_o know_v not_o what_o it_o be_v to_o maintain_v and_o make_v good_a a_o thing_n enchirid._n enchirid._n 8._o but_o now_o to_o come_v to_o costerus_n he_o by_o occasion_n of_o solue_v a_o objection_n say_v that_o the_o custom_n of_o communicate_v in_o one_o kind_n begin_v from_o the_o people_n for_o it_o have_v ever_o be_v free_a to_o communicate_v in_o one_o kind_n or_o both_o as_o costerus_n there_o often_o repeat_v the_o people_n for_o diverse_a incommoditye_n by_o little_a and_o little_o abstain_v from_o the_o chalice_n which_o abstayn_v of_o they_o the_o bishop_n for_o other_o reason_n alsoe_o by_o silence_n approve_v whereby_o you_o see_v his_o meaning_n be_v plain_a and_o clear_a against_o you_o and_o for_o his_o word_n whereas_o you_o relate_v they_o thus_o it_o be_v not_o take_v up_o by_o the_o commandment_n of_o the_o bishop_n but_o it_o creep_v in_o the_o bishop_n wink_v thereat_o they_o be_v indeed_o thus_o it_o be_v to_o be_v diligent_o note_v that_o the_o communion_n of_o one_o kind_n creep_v in_o not_o so_o much_o by_o the_o commandment_n of_o the_o bishop_n as_o by_o the_o use_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o people_n yet_o the_o bishop_n wink_v thereat_o wherein_o though_o there_o be_v but_o a_o little_a difference_n yet_o it_o show_v your_o fidelity_n according_a to_o our_o sauiour_n saying_n 16.10_o luc_n 16.10_o qui_fw-la in_o modico_fw-la iniquus_fw-la est_fw-la &_o in_o maiori_fw-la iniquus_fw-la est_fw-la he_o that_o wicked_a in_o a_o little_a be_v wicked_a in_o a_o great_a for_o costerus_n do_v not_o say_v that_o it_o do_v not_o come_v in_o by_o the_o commandment_n of_o the_o bishop_n but_o not_o so_o much_o by_o that_o as_o by_o the_o people_n use_n and_o practice_n 9_o now_o what_o be_v this_o to_o your_o purpose_n where_o be_v costerus_n his_o testimony_n for_o the_o antiquity_n universality_n certainty_n and_o safety_n of_o your_o protestant_a religion_n be_v not_o that_o whole_a book_n write_v only_o to_o maintain_v the_o catholic_a roman_a faith_n in_o the_o point_n now_o adays_o in_o controversy_n and_o to_o condemn_v the_o contrary_a of_o vanity_n folly_n and_o error_n how_o then_o can_v he_o think_v it_o self_n but_o because_o i_o will_v not_o stand_v to_o deduce_v it_o by_o way_n of_o argument_n i_o will_v only_o cite_v one_o place_n direct_o opposite_a to_o the_o scope_n of_o this_o your_o section_n where_o he_o say_v that_o only_a the_o child_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o cost_n enchir_o cap._n 2._o n._n 3._o by_o which_o church_n he_o mean_v the_o catholic_a apostolic_a roman_a church_n as_o he_o often_o declare_v himself_o merit_v increase_v of_o grace_n and_o aeternal_a life_n that_o they_o only_o be_v grateful_a &_o please_v to_o god_n they_o only_o the_o child_n and_o friend_n of_o god_n they_o only_o have_v communion_n with_o the_o saint_n and_o merit_n of_o saint_n they_o only_o be_v adorn_v with_o true_a and_o christian_a virtue_n they_o only_o have_v the_o promise_n and_o certain_a expectation_n of_o aeternal_a life_n which_o say_v the_o be_v great_a and_o most_o true_a privilege_n for_o out_o of_o the_o church_n nothing_o of_o all_o this_o be_v find_v no_o holiness_n no_o christian_a virtue_n no_o work_n please_v to_o god_n no_o merit_n no_o hope_n of_o salvation_n thus_o he_o now_o good_a sir_n knight_n be_v not_o here_o good_a comfort_n for_o you_o be_v you_o in_o costerus_n his_o judgement_n in_o the_o more_o certain_a and_o safe_a way_n do_v not_o you_o then_o abuse_v author_n to_o your_o own_o and_o other_o man_n perdition_n but_o though_o you_o be_v become_v a_o sectmaister_n or_o at_o least_o a_o great_a master_n in_o the_o protestant_a sect_n there_o be_v little_a hope_n that_o this_o lay_v open_a of_o your_o deal_n will_v make_v you_o better_o but_o rather_o make_v you_o more_o enrage_a yet_o i_o trust_v some_o well_o mean_v people_n delude_v by_o you_o may_v hereby_o come_v to_o understand_v themselves_o better_a and_o come_v to_o the_o only_a safe_a way_n indeed_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o leave_v you_o to_o your_o protestant_a safety_n 10._o but_o since_o you_o be_v also_o so_o shameless_a here_o as_o to_o say_v that_o we_o do_v not_o condemn_v you_o for_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n look_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n and_o see_v whether_o you_o do_v not_o find_v a_o heavy_a curse_n against_o any_o that_o shall_v say_v that_o all_o and_o every_o of_o the_o faithful_a aught_o by_o the_o precept_n of_o god_n 1._o sess_n 21._o can_n 1._o or_o necessity_n of_o salvation_n to_o receive_v both_o species_n or_o kind_n of_o the_o most_o holy_a sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n si_fw-mi quis_fw-la dixerit_fw-la ex_fw-la dei_fw-la praecepto_fw-la vel_fw-la necessitate_v salutis_fw-la omnes_fw-la &_o singulos_fw-la christi_fw-la fideles_fw-la utramque_fw-la speciem_fw-la sanctissimi_fw-la eucharistiae_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la sumere_fw-la debere_fw-la anathema_n sit_v the_o like_a have_v the_o council_n alsoe_o of_o constance_n so_o plain_a 174._o pag._n 174._o that_o you_o yourself_o afterward_o confess_v that_o the_o one_o do_v accurse_v the_o other_o accuse_v all_o for_o haeretique_n that_o deny_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o one_o kind_n as_o you_o do_v if_o then_o we_o not_o only_o write_v against_o your_o doctrine_n as_o against_o a_o haeresy_n as_o may_v appear_v by_o all_o our_o controversy_n and_o school_n divine_v and_o even_o by_o gerson_n treatise_n against_o the_o haeresy_n of_o lay_n communion_n under_o both_o kind_n which_o treatise_n you_o yourself_o cite_v elsewhere_o in_o the_o margin_n but_o also_o condemn_v it_o in_o two_o general_a counsel_n how_o can_v you_o have_v the_o face_n to_o say_v we_o do_v not_o condemn_v you_o good_a god_n what_o shall_v a_o man_n say_v to_o such_o man_n as_o you_o be_v 11._o but_o to_o come_v to_o doctor_n harding_n the_o three_o author_n of_o we_o which_o you_o bring_v to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n universality_n certainty_n and_o safety_n of_o your_o faith_n let_v we_o hear_v how_o you_o use_v he_o you_o say_v when_o you_o accuse_v we_o of_o private_a mass_n contrary_a to_o christ_n institution_n and_o custom_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n we_o excuse_v it_o that_o it_o be_v through_o their_o own_o default_n and_o negligence_n whereof_o say_v mr._n
this_o point_n alone_o nor_o do_v campian_n mean_a that_o there_o be_v never_o any_o man_n that_o do_v agree_v with_o you_o in_o any_o one_o of_o your_o erroneous_a point_n but_o that_o there_o be_v never_o any_o house_n village_n or_o city_n that_o do_v agree_v with_o you_o in_o your_o whole_a faith_n and_o religion_n or_o make_v the_o same_o church_n with_o you_o and_o for_o the_o mangling_fw-mi and_o raze_v one_o of_o aelfrick_n latin_a epistle_n wherewith_o you_o charge_v we_o first_o sir_n it_o be_v not_o like_a by_o this_o that_o he_o say_v in_o his_o homily_n wherewith_o you_o say_v the_o epistle_n agree_v that_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n against_o we_o and_o if_o there_o be_v know_v you_o sir_n it_o be_v not_o our_o fashion_n to_o deal_v so_o with_o author_n but_o if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n contrary_a to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n we_o do_v what_o be_v to_o be_v do_v public_o as_o have_v authority_n and_o know_v what_o we_o do_v correct_v modern_a author_n in_o what_o they_o err_v &_o for_o ancient_a author_n note_v only_o what_o be_v amiss_o 4._o v._o reg_fw-la indi_fw-la de_fw-la correct_v lib._n §._o 4._o but_o not_o raze_v or_o blot_v out_o any_o thing_n that_o corner_n correct_v we_o leave_v for_o such_o corner_n companion_n as_o shun_v the_o light_n and_o so_o your_o principal_a argument_n be_v answer_v i_o go_v on_o to_o the_o rest_n 11._o first_o you_o tell_v we_o we_o be_v divide_v among_o ourselves_o touch_v the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o transubstantiation_n some_o derive_v it_o as_o you_o say_v from_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n some_o from_o his_o benediction_n before_o the_o word_n some_o from_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o father_n some_o from_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n some_o from_o scripture_n some_o from_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n where_o to_o fill_v paper_n and_o make_v a_o show_n you_o repeat_v again_o the_o same_o thing_n for_o what_o difference_n for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o this_o matter_n be_v there_o between_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n between_o scripture_n and_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n but_o to_o let_v that_o go_v i_o say_v first_o your_o phrase_n of_o derive_v be_v improper_a as_o you_o use_v it_o for_o we_o derive_v our_o doctrine_n by_o succession_n from_o those_o man_n that_o have_v go_v before_o we_o by_o degree_n to_o the_o apostle_n time_n show_v that_o in_o all_o age_n and_o time_n it_o have_v be_v teach_v and_o believe_v but_o to_o speak_v proper_o we_o not_o derive_v but_o prove_v the_o truth_n of_o our_o doctrine_n out_o of_o scripture_n counsel_n father_n etc._n etc._n though_o the_o derivation_n be_v also_o a_o proof_n but_o yet_o different_a from_o that_o of_o scripture_n and_o counsel_n second_o you_o speak_v very_o general_o and_o confuse_o for_o whereas_o there_o be_v diverse_a thing_n in_o question_n between_o you_o and_o we_o as_o the_o realnes_n of_o christ_n presence_n in_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n and_o transubstantiation_n other_o among_o catholic_n themselves_n as_o whither_o or_o how_o far_o these_o point_n may_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n etc._n etc._n or_o by_o what_o word_n or_o action_n this_o change_n be_v make_v you_o make_v no_o distinction_n at_o all_o of_o any_o of_o these_o thing_n nor_o speak_v any_o thing_n certain_o or_o constant_o of_o any_o of_o they_o but_o run_v hop_v up_o and_o down_o from_o one_o to_o another_o now_o forward_o now_o backward_o that_o no_o man_n can_v tell_v where_o to_o find_v you_o but_o though_o this_o confusion_n of_o you_o cause_n a_o little_a more_o trouble_n and_o length_n in_o answer_v yet_o in_o the_o end_n it_o will_v discover_v your_o ignorance_n and_o vanity_n the_o more_o 12._o to_o begin_v then_o with_o you_o i_o will_v know_v to_o what_o purpose_n you_o allege_v our_o author_n in_o thing_n controvert_v among_o themselves_o only_o either_o now_o because_o they_o be_v not_o define_v or_o heretofore_o when_o other_o thing_n then_o controvert_v be_v not_o define_v though_o they_o be_v since_o and_o consequent_o out_o of_o controversy_n do_v this_o difference_n of_o our_o author_n make_v any_o thing_n for_o you_o noe_o very_o but_o much_o against_o you_o for_o their_o modest_a manner_n of_o dispute_v of_o these_o thing_n with_o due_a submission_n to_o the_o catholic_a church_n to_o who_o censure_n they_o leave_v themselves_o their_o opinion_n and_o writing_n &_o their_o silence_n as_o soon_o as_o she_o do_v speak_v be_v a_o manifest_a condemnation_n of_o your_o haeretical_a pride_n that_o will_v stand_v to_o no_o judgement_n but_o your_o own_o and_o even_o those_o opinion_n of_o they_o which_o you_o take_v hold_v of_o they_o virtual_o retract_v so_o far_o as_o either_o they_o may_v be_v any_o way_n against_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n or_o in_o favour_n of_o haeretique_n which_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n you_o seek_v therefore_o in_o any_o thing_n wherein_o they_o may_v dissent_v from_o the_o common_a belief_n as_o they_o do_v not_o bind_v we_o so_o they_o do_v not_o favour_v you_o but_o of_o this_o i_o say_v enough_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n though_o in_o the_o authoritye_n which_o you_o here_o allege_v there_o be_v not_o much_o need_n of_o this_o for_o either_o they_o say_v nothing_o against_o we_o or_o you_o corrupt_v they_o as_o i_o shall_v show_v 13._o and_o to_o begin_v with_o caietan_n in_o matter_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n you_o say_v out_o of_o suarez_n he_o teach_v that_o these_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n do_v not_o of_o themselves_o sufficient_o prove_v transubstantiation_n without_o the_o suppose_a authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o therefore_o by_o command_n of_o pius_n v._o that_o part_n of_o his_o commentary_n be_v leave_v out_o of_o the_o romish_a edition_n thus_o you_o where_o first_o according_a to_o your_o usual_a liberty_n of_o falsify_v you_o put_v in_o the_o word_n suppose_v of_o your_o own_o to_o make_v the_o speech_n sound_v somewhat_o contemptible_o of_o the_o church_n whereas_o there_o be_v no_o such_o word_n in_o suarez_n his_o latin_a text_n which_o you_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n second_o you_o put_v in_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n which_o suarez_n there_o speak_v not_o of_o as_o be_v evident_a but_o only_o of_o the_o real_a presence_n which_o be_v a_o distinct_a thing_n though_o you_o confound_v they_o and_o in_o that_o suarez_n indeed_o &_o the_o whole_a school_n of_o divines_n do_v worthy_o condemn_v cajetan_v for_o say_v that_o those_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n do_v not_o sufficient_o prove_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o sauiour_n body_n for_o singularity_n whereof_o caietan_n be_v often_o note_v in_o matter_n of_o such_o moment_n be_v very_o much_o to_o be_v condemn_v in_o a_o divine_a &_o therefore_o pius_n v._o with_o great_a reason_n command_v that_o to_o be_v blot_v out_o agreeable_o to_o the_o rule_v praescribe_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n for_o correct_v of_o book_n whereof_o you_o complain_v much_o as_o think_v cajetan_v somewhat_o to_o favour_v your_o side_n yet_o you_o be_v extreme_o mistake_v and_o by_o allege_v caietanes_n authority_n in_o this_o you_o give_v yourself_o a_o wound_n for_o though_o he_o do_v not_o give_v so_o much_o to_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o to_o be_v sufficient_a of_o themselves_o to_o prove_v the_o reality_n of_o christ_n presence_n yet_o he_o say_v that_o join_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n exposition_n of_o they_o they_o be_v sufficient_a as_o he_o say_v in_o express_a word_n which_o yourself_o after_o cite_v and_o yet_o you_o can_v allege_v he_o for_o you_o as_o you_o think_v here_o and_o which_o be_v more_o impudence_n you_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o say_v that_o caietan_n deni_v the_o bread_n to_o be_v transubstantiate_v by_o those_o word_n for_o where_o have_v caietan_n such_o a_o word_n or_o even_a shadow_n of_o a_o word_n you_o think_v perhaps_o because_o in_o his_o opinion_n those_o word_n do_v not_o sufficient_o of_o themselves_o prove_v the_o verity_n of_o christ_n presence_n that_o therefore_o they_o do_v not_o sufficient_o cause_v it_o but_o if_o you_o think_v so_o as_o you_o seem_v you_o be_v much_o mistake_v for_o those_o be_v two_o different_a thing_n for_o example_n in_o baptism_n the_o word_n i_o baptize_v thou_o etc._n etc._n beside_o the_o cleanse_n of_o the_o soul_n from_o sin_n original_a &_o actual_a cause_n also_o the_o remission_n of_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n &_o imprint_v a_o spiritual_a character_n in_o the_o soul_n though_o these_o effect_n can_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o the_o signification_n of_o the_o word_n and_o so_o alsoe_o a_o man_n may_v say_v of_o the_o form_n of_o the_o eucharist_n the_o proof_n depend_v upon_o the_o speculative_a signification_n of_o
gospel_n be_v rather_o to_o be_v have_v by_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n and_o use_v of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o scripture_n and_o prove_v it_o by_o this_o that_o if_o we_o lie_v aside_o the_o interpretation_n of_o father_n and_o use_n of_o the_o church_n no_o man_n can_v be_v able_a to_o prove_v that_o any_o priest_n now_o in_o these_o time_n do_v consecrate_v the_o true_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o same_o that_o he_o say_v after_o in_o other_o word_n in_o nostra_fw-la missa_fw-la in_o our_o mass_n that_o be_v mass_n in_o these_o time_n not_o say_v he_o that_o this_o matter_n be_v now_o doubtful_a but_o that_o the_o certainty_n thereof_o be_v have_v not_o so_o much_o out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o the_o gospel_n as_o of_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n and_o use_n of_o so_o long_a time_n which_o they_o have_v leave_v to_o posterity_n for_o say_v he_o again_o though_o christ_n of_o bread_n make_v his_o body_n and_o of_o wine_n his_o blood_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v by_o force_n of_o any_o word_n there_o set_v down_o that_o we_o as_o often_o as_o we_o shall_v attempt_v any_o such_o thing_n shall_v do_v it_o which_o unless_o it_o be_v so_o say_v we_o can_v he_o certain_v thereof_o these_o be_v his_o very_a word_n where_o you_o see_v how_o together_o he_o deliver_v two_o point_n of_o catholic_a doctrine_n the_o one_o of_o the_o real_a presence_n the_o other_o of_o tradition_n for_o understanding_n of_o the_o scripture_n neither_o do_v he_o say_v that_o the_o real_a presence_n in_o our_o mass_n now_o a_o day_n be_v not_o prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n but_o not_o out_o of_o it_o alone_o without_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n which_o we_o acknowledge_v general_o necessary_a in_o the_o exposition_n of_o scripture_n neither_o do_v you_o therefore_o right_o argue_v the_o real_a presence_n be_v not_o prove_v so_o much_o out_o of_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o scripture_n as_o out_o of_o the_o interpretation_n of_o father_n and_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la not_o out_o of_o scripture_n this_o i_o say_v be_v a_o idle_a argument_n for_o the_o father_n interpretation_n &_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n do_v but_o deliver_v we_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n 17._o what_o then_o have_v you_o here_o out_o of_o bishop_n fisher_n to_o prove_v any_o of_o your_o 4._o point_n not_o one_o word_n for_o if_o his_o word_n do_v prove_v any_o thing_n they_o shall_v prove_v against_o the_o real_a presence_n not_o against_o transubstantiation_n which_o be_v your_o controversy_n and_o for_o those_o other_o word_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o this_o same_o holy_a bishop_n and_o martyr_n for_o a_o conclusion_n thus_o non_fw-la potest_fw-la igitur_fw-la per_fw-la ullam_fw-la scripturam_fw-la probari_fw-la it_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n they_o discover_v your_o dishonesty_n most_o of_o all_o for_o by_o break_v of_o the_o sentence_n there_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n believe_v they_o have_v relation_n to_o the_o word_n next_o before_o by_o you_o cite_v as_o if_o the_o bishop_n do_v say_v that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n that_o christ_n be_v real_o present_a in_o our_o mass_n whereas_o there_o be_v a_o whole_a leaf_n between_o these_o two_o place_n but_o the_o only_a bare_a recital_n of_o the_o bishop_n word_n shall_v serve_v for_o a_o confutation_n which_o be_v these_o non_fw-la potest_fw-la igitur_fw-la per_fw-la ullam_fw-la scripturan_n probari_fw-la quod_fw-la aut_fw-la laicus_fw-la aut_fw-la sacerdos_n quoties_fw-la id_fw-la negotij_fw-la tentaverit_fw-la pari_fw-la modo_fw-la conficiet_fw-la ex_fw-la pane_fw-la vinoque_fw-la christi_fw-la corpus_fw-la &_o sanguinem_fw-la atque_fw-la christus_fw-la ipse_fw-la confecit_fw-la quum_fw-la necâ—stud_fw-la in_o scripture_n contineatur_fw-la it_o can_v therefore_o be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n that_o either_o lay_v man_n or_o priest_n as_o often_o as_o he_o shall_v go_v about_o that_o business_n shall_v in_o like_a manner_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n make_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n as_o christ_n himself_o do_v see_v that_o neither_o that_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o his_o drift_n be_v only_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a word_n in_o scripture_n whereby_o it_o be_v promise_v that_o either_o priest_n or_o lay_v man_n shall_v have_v power_n to_o consecrate_v &_o that_o though_o christ_n do_v himself_o consecrate_v &_o command_v his_o apostle_n so_o to_o do_v in_o remembrance_n of_o he_o that_o yet_o he_o do_v not_o add_v any_o express_a promise_n that_o the_o same_o effect_n shall_v always_o follow_v whensoever_o any_o man_n shall_v offer_v to_o consecrate_v which_o be_v not_o against_o us._n for_o we_o gather_v that_o power_n to_o pertain_v to_o the_o apostle_n successor_n in_o priesthood_n out_o of_o the_o word_n 1._o council_n trid._n sess_n 22._o q._n 1._o hoc_fw-la facite_fw-la in_o meam_fw-la commemorationem_fw-la not_o bare_o but_o as_o they_o have_v be_v ever_o understand_v by_o the_o church_n which_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v against_o we_o that_o we_o may_v rather_o urge_v it_o against_o you_o upon_o the_o same_o occasion_n that_o bishop_n fisher_n do_v to_o wit_n for_o proof_n of_o the_o necessity_n of_o tradition_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o understanding_n of_o scripture_n and_o so_o by_o this_o it_o be_v manifest_v how_o much_o you_o have_v abuse_v this_o holy_a bishop_n meaning_n as_o you_o do_v other_o two_o bishop_n that_o follow_v 18._o the_o one_o be_v gul._n durandus_fw-la bishop_n of_o mand_v out_o of_o who_o it_o seem_v you_o will_v prove_v the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n not_o to_o be_v of_o the_o essence_n of_o this_o sacrament_n for_o what_o else_o you_o will_v have_v with_o he_o i_o see_v not_o but_o special_o because_o have_v cite_v he_o thus_o in_o english_a christ_n bless_v the_o bread_n by_o his_o heavenly_a benediction_n and_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o word_n the_o bread_n be_v turn_v unto_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n then_o you_o put_v these_o word_n in_o latin_a tunc_fw-la confecit_fw-la cum_fw-la benedixit_fw-la they_o he_o make_v it_o when_o he_o bless_v it_o whereby_o you_o seem_v to_o put_v the_o force_n of_o this_o testimony_n in_o those_o word_n as_o if_o by_o they_o you_o will_v prove_v out_o of_o durandus_fw-la that_o christ_n do_v not_o consecrate_v by_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o by_o that_o blessing_n but_o durand_n himself_o shall_v disprove_v you_o sir_n knight_n for_o thus_o he_o say_v benedixit_fw-la benedictione_n caelesti_fw-la &_o virtute_fw-la verbi_fw-la qua_fw-la convertitur_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o substantiam_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la to_o wit_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_n meum_fw-la he_o bless_v it_o by_o the_o heavenly_a blessing_n and_o power_n of_o the_o word_n by_o which_o the_o bread_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n 14._o durand_n rat_n cap._n 41._o n._n 14._o to_o wit_n this_o be_v my_o body_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la which_o last_o word_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v sir_n humphrey_n why_o you_o cut_v of_o but_o i_o need_v not_o ask_v for_o any_o man_n may_v see_v it_o be_v because_o you_o will_v not_o have_v that_o powerful_a benediction_n whereof_o this_o author_n speak_v to_o consist_v in_o those_o sacred_a word_n but_o durand_n both_o in_o this_o very_a sentence_n and_o often_o in_o the_o same_o place_n attribute_v most_o plain_o that_o power_n to_o those_o very_a word_n not_o to_o any_o other_o blessing_n as_o may_v appear_v in_o that_o he_o say_v that_o we_o do_v bless_v ex_fw-la illa_fw-la virtute_fw-la quam_fw-la christus_fw-la indidit_fw-la verbis_fw-la by_o that_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o the_o word_n 19_o odo_n caemeracensis_n be_v the_o other_o bishop_n that_o follow_v who_o for_o the_o same_o purpose_n you_o cite_v and_o as_o much_o to_o the_o purpose_n his_o word_n be_v these_o as_o you_o bring_v they_o christ_n bless_v the_o bread_n and_o then_o make_v that_o his_o body_n which_o be_v first_o bread_n and_o so_o by_o blessing_n it_o become_v flesh_n for_o otherwise_o he_o will_v not_o have_v say_v after_o he_o have_v bless_v it_o this_o be_v my_o body_n unless_o by_o blessing_n it_o he_o have_v make_v it_o his_o body_n which_o word_n you_o put_v in_o the_o margin_n in_o latin_a imperfect_o and_o translate_v even_o they_o corrupt_o benedixit_fw-la suum_fw-la corpus_fw-la you_o translate_v christ_n bless_v bread_n qui_fw-la priùs_fw-la erat_fw-la panis_fw-la benedictione_n factus_fw-la est_fw-la caro_fw-la which_o in_o true_a english_a be_v thus_o that_o which_o be_v bread_n before_o by_o blessing_n be_v make_v flesh_n you_o translate_v otherwise_o as_o may_v appear_v by_o your_o word_n though_o i_o see_v not_o to_o what_o end_n you_o shall_v so_o
thus_o scotus_n not_o only_o teach_v transubstantiation_n himself_o but_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o s._n ambrose_n who_o make_v most_o frequent_a mention_n of_o the_o change_n and_o conversion_n of_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o bread_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n express_v by_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o scotus_n must_v have_v hold_v this_o doctrine_n for_o the_o substance_n thereof_o to_o be_v as_o ancient_a as_o s._n ambrose_n at_o the_o least_o and_o if_o so_o ancient_a then_o even_o from_o the_o beginning_n his_o meaning_n therefore_o in_o say_v it_o be_v determine_v of_o late_a in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n be_v only_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o word_n of_o consecration_n may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o bless_a sauiour_n body_n either_o by_o transubstantiation_n that_o be_v by_o change_n of_o the_o bread_n into_o his_o body_n or_o otherwise_o so_o that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n do_v remain_v the_o church_n have_v determine_v that_o the_o word_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o the_o former_a sense_n as_o may_v be_v gather_v by_o his_o manner_n of_o speak_v of_o the_o church_n expound_v of_o scripture_n which_o he_o say_v she_o do_v by_o the_o same_o spirit_n wherewith_o the_o faith_n be_v deliver_v to_o we_o to_o wit_n by_o the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n 11.9.3_o v._o scot._n in_o 4._o sent._n do_v 11.9.3_o which_o be_v nothing_o against_o the_o antiquity_n of_o transubstantiation_n and_o though_o it_o be_v also_o the_o common_a belief_n of_o the_o church_n from_o the_o beginning_n yet_o it_o may_v well_o be_v say_v not_o to_o have_v be_v de_fw-fr substantia_fw-la fidei_fw-la yribarne_n speak_v because_o it_o have_v not_o be_v so_o plain_o deliver_v nor_o determine_v in_o any_o council_n till_o greg._n the_o 7._o his_o time_n wherein_o it_o be_v first_o define_v against_o berengarius_fw-la and_o that_o but_o by_o a_o particular_a or_o provincial_a roman_a council_n which_o notwithstanding_o the_o article_n in_o itself_o may_v be_v ancient_a though_o not_o so_o express_o deliver_v as_o i_o declare_v more_o ample_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n 25._o you_o have_v little_a help_n then_o sir_n humphrey_n from_o alfonsus_n a_o castro_n scotus_n and_o yribarne_v which_o although_o you_o have_v yet_o be_v not_o that_o sufficient_a for_o discharge_v of_o your_o credit_n you_o have_v promise_v we_o acient_a father_n against_o transubstantiation_n which_o these_o three_o be_v not_o for_o one_o of_o they_o to_o wit_n yribarne_n be_v perhaps_o now_o alive_a another_o to_o wit_n alfonsus_n a_o castro_n live_v not_o pass_v 100_o year_n ago_o the_o three_o to_o wit_n scotus_n about_o 300._o year_n since_o which_o be_v far_o from_o the_o antiquity_n of_o father_n as_o we_o ordinary_o speak_v of_o they_o wherefore_o bethink_v yourself_o at_o last_o you_o bring_v we_o a_o father_n or_o two_o to_o wit_n s._n aug._n and_o theodoret_n tell_v we_o that_o s._n aug._n be_v so_o whole_o you_o that_o maldonat_n expound_v a_o place_n in_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n say_v that_o he_o be_v persuade_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n and_o see_v that_o caluin_n expound_v the_o same_o place_n as_o he_o do_v he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o mind_n and_o for_o theodoret_n you_o say_v that_o valentia_n observe_v he_o to_o say_v that_o the_o consecrate_a element_n do_v remain_v in_o their_o proper_a substance_n and_o shape_n and_o figure_n he_o make_v the_o like_a answer_n that_o it_o be_v no_o marvel_n if_o one_o or_o more_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n before_o the_o question_n be_v debate_v do_v think_v less_o considerate_o and_o true_o of_o transubstantiation_n this_o be_v all_o that_o ever_o you_o have_v out_o of_o the_o father_n which_o how_o little_a it_o be_v and_o how_o much_o to_o your_o shame_n shall_v upon_o examination_n appear_v io._n aug_n er_fw-mi 26._o in_o io._n 26._o for_o s._n augustine_n then_o what_o be_v it_o that_o he_o say_v in_o favour_n of_o you_o in_o expound_v that_o verse_n of_o the_o 6._o of_o s._n john_n where_o our_o saviour_n say_v your_o father_n have_v eat_v manna_n and_o be_v dead_a he_o that_o eat_v this_o bread_n shall_v live_v for_o ever_o he_o say_v that_o their_o father_n that_o be_v the_o naughty_a and_o unbelieve_a people_n of_o the_o jew_n die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o in_o their_o soul_n because_o they_o in_o eat_v manna_n do_v consider_v only_o what_o it_o present_v to_o their_o outward_a sense_n and_o not_o what_o it_o represent_v unto_o their_o mind_n by_o faith_n whereas_o the_o good_a man_n among_o they_o as_o moses_n aaron_n phinees_n and_o other_o who_o he_o say_v be_v our_o father_n and_o not_o they_o do_v not_o die_v to_o wit_n spiritual_o because_o they_o do_v not_o consider_v it_o only_o according_a to_o the_o sense_n but_o according_a to_o faith_n remember_v that_o it_o be_v but_o a_o figure_n and_o a_o figure_n of_o this_o heavenly_a bread_n which_o we_o have_v as_o the_o same_o holy_a father_n say_v express_o in_o the_o same_o place_n hunc_fw-la panem_fw-la significavit_fw-la manna_n manna_n signify_v this_o bread_n and_o he_o say_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o judas_n and_o other_o bad_a christian_n which_o receive_v of_o the_o altar_n and_o by_o receive_v die_v because_o they_o receive_v it_o ill_o do_v not_o this_o make_n much_o for_o you_o now_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v not_o you_o see_v how_o whole_o s._n aug._n be_v you_o how_o he_o say_v that_o manna_n be_v a_o figure_n of_o this_o our_o heavenly_a bread_n that_o we_o receive_v it_o from_o the_o altar_n do_v not_o all_o this_o make_v fine_o for_o you_o but_o you_o will_v say_v then_o if_o it_o make_v nothing_o for_o we_o why_o do_v maldonate_fw-it say_v that_o if_o s._n aug._n have_v live_v in_o these_o time_n he_o will_v have_v interpret_v otherwise_o i_o answer_v not_o that_o this_o interpretation_n be_v for_o you_o but_o because_o the_o other_o be_v more_o against_o you_o to_o wit_n thus_o whereas_o s._n augustine_n give_v the_o reason_n why_o they_o that_o do_v eat_v manna_n die_v to_o be_v because_o they_o do_v not_o eat_v it_o with_o faith_n maldonate_fw-it make_v the_o difference_n to_o be_v not_o so_o much_o between_o the_o person_n which_o do_v eat_v as_o between_o the_o food_n which_o they_o do_v eat_v say_v that_o our_o saviour_n make_v this_o a_o special_a prerogative_n of_o the_o b._n sacrament_n far_o above_o the_o manna_n that_o this_o holy_a sacrament_n give_v life_n to_o they_o that_o eat_v it_o which_o the_o manna_n do_v not_o give_v of_o itself_o and_o indeed_o with_o dew_n reverence_n be_v it_o speak_v to_o s._n augustine_n authority_n this_o interpretation_n be_v more_o suitable_a to_o the_o text_n and_o discourse_n of_o our_o saviour_n in_o that_o whole_a chapter_n which_o be_v to_o compare_v and_o prefer_v that_o true_a bread_n which_o he_o say_v his_o heavenly_a father_n do_v give_v before_o that_o of_o manna_n which_o moses_n give_v their_o father_n it_o be_v more_o also_o against_o the_o haeretique_n of_o these_o time_n in_o regard_n it_o be_v more_o for_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n which_o they_o labour_v might_n &_o main_a to_o depress_v and_o that_o be_v the_o very_a reason_n why_o caluin_n rather_o follow_v the_o former_a interpretation_n not_o for_o any_o love_n to_o truth_n or_o reverence_v which_o he_o bear_v to_o s._n augustine_n authority_n 27._o how_o false_a then_o and_o absurd_a be_v that_o scoff_a speech_n of_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o the_o next_o leaf_n of_o your_o book_n where_o you_o say_v ironical_o thus_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o right_o understand_v the_o corporal_a presence_n for_o he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o opinion_n if_o he_o have_v live_v in_o these_o day_n as_o if_o forsooth_o maldonate_fw-it do_v say_n that_o s._n augustine_n do_v not_o right_o understand_v the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o will_v have_v change_v his_o opinion_n concern_v the_o same_o if_o he_o have_v live_v now_o in_o these_o time_n you_o hereby_o insinuate_v as_o if_o s._n augustine_n think_v otherwise_o thereof_o then_o we_o now_o teach_v but_o how_o gross_o false_a this_o be_v may_v appear_v plain_o by_o what_o i_o have_v here_o say_v to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o real_a presence_n whereof_o either_o s._n aug._n or_o maldonate_fw-it speak_v but_o how_o they_o that_o eat_v manna_n have_v dye_v and_o they_o that_o eat_v the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n shall_v live_v according_a to_o our_o sauiour_n saying_n which_o be_v clean_o a_o different_a thing_n wherein_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o be_v line_v s._n aug._n somewhat_o but_o maldonate_fw-it you_o be_v line_v much_o more_o by_o make_v as_o if_o he_o acknowledge_v s._n augustine_n to_o be_v against_o the_o real_a presence_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v
that_o 2._o ap._n suar._n 3._o p._n to_o 3._o disp_n 49._o sect._n 2._o non_fw-la est_fw-la attendendum_fw-la ad_fw-la naturam_fw-la eorum_fw-la quae_fw-la videntur_fw-la sed_fw-la credendum_fw-la mutationi_fw-la quae_fw-la hîc_fw-la fit_a ex_fw-la gratia_fw-la we_o must_v not_o consider_v the_o nature_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v see_v but_o believe_v the_o change_n which_o be_v here_o make_v by_o grace_n as_o also_o that_o other_o place_n where_o he_o note_v it_o for_o a_o haeresy_n spring_v up_o among_o the_o grecian_n of_o some_o that_o do_v deny_v the_o eucharist_n to_o be_v the_o flesh_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n eucharistiam_fw-la &_o oblationes_fw-la non_fw-la admittunt_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la confiteantur_fw-la eucharistiam_fw-la esse_fw-la carnem_fw-la saluatoris_fw-la nostri_fw-la jesv_n christi_fw-la but_o not_o to_o stand_v long_o upon_o it_o 1._o dialog_n 3._o ut_fw-la habeatur_fw-la ap_fw-mi suar._n 3._o p._n to_o 3._o disp_n 46._o sect_n 1._o here_o be_v enough_o i_o trow_v to_o make_v it_o evident_a that_o theodoret_n in_o this_o point_n agree_v with_o other_o father_n and_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n 30._o and_o so_o much_o for_o these_o two_o father_n s._n aug._n and_o theodoret_n which_o be_v the_o only_a ancient_a author_n it_o seem_v you_o can_v find_v of_o yourself_o but_o because_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n think_v there_o be_v more_o for_o you_o and_o that_o our_o author_n acknowledge_v so_o much_o i_o must_v examine_v what_o you_o say_v out_o of_o cusanus_fw-la for_o that_o purpose_n for_o he_o be_v the_o only_a author_n which_o you_o here_o bring_v thus_o than_o you_o say_v their_o learned_a cusanus_fw-la be_v not_o so_o reserve_v in_o his_o opinion_n of_o the_o father_n he_o speakeht_v plain_o and_o open_o that_o certain_a of_o the_o ancient_a divine_n be_v find_v of_o this_o mind_n that_o the_o bread_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v not_o transubstantiate_v or_o change_v in_o nature_n but_o remain_v still_o and_o be_v clothe_v with_o another_o substance_n more_o noble_a than_o itself_o so_o cusanus_fw-la as_o you_o cite_v he_o whereby_o you_o will_v make_v it_o seem_v as_o if_o cusanus_fw-la teach_v the_o father_n to_o be_v against_o transubstantiation_n and_o even_o as_o if_o it_o be_v cusanus_fw-la his_o own_a opinion_n for_o though_o you_o do_v not_o say_v it_o express_o yet_o you_o allege_v he_o in_o such_o manner_n that_o any_o man_n will_v think_v it_o but_o in_o this_o you_o play_v your_o part_n as_o you_o be_v wont_a to_o do_v for_o first_o where_o do_v cusanus_fw-la speak_v one_o word_n of_o the_o father_n he_o speak_v indeed_o of_o some_o ancient_a divine_n but_o of_o father_n not_o a_o word_n this_o then_o be_v false_a which_o you_o say_v that_o cusanus_fw-la be_v not_o so_o reserve_v in_o his_o opinion_n of_o the_o father_n see_v he_o be_v so_o reserve_v as_o not_o once_o to_o name_v they_o second_o for_o that_o which_o you_o say_v of_o certain_a ancient_a divine_n it_o be_v true_a cusanus_fw-la have_v somewhat_o to_o that_o purpose_n but_o not_o just_a as_o you_o say_v for_o these_o be_v his_o word_n si_fw-mi quis_fw-la intelligeret_fw-la panem_fw-la non_fw-la transubstantiari_fw-la sed_fw-la superuestiri_fw-la nobiliori_fw-la substantia_fw-la prout_fw-la quidam_fw-la veteres_fw-la theologi_fw-la intellexisse_fw-la reperiuntur_fw-la qui_fw-la dicebant_fw-la non_fw-la solum_fw-la panem_fw-la sed_fw-la &_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la esse_fw-la in_o sacramento_n etc._n etc._n if_o any_o man_n shall_v understand_v the_o bread_n not_o to_o be_v transubstantiate_v but_o to_o be_v overclothe_v with_o a_o more_o noble_a substance_n as_o some_o ancient_a divine_n be_v find_v to_o have_v understand_v who_o say_v that_o not_o only_a bread_n but_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n etc._n etc._n which_o last_o word_n of_o christ_n real_a presence_n in_o the_o sacrament_n you_o leave_v out_o because_o they_o make_v as_o much_o or_o more_o against_o yourself_o than_o the_o former_a of_o the_o remain_v of_o bread_n against_o us._n but_o for_o the_o ancient_a divine_n you_o need_v not_o have_v go_v so_o far_o as_o cusanus_fw-la you_o may_v have_v their_o name_n and_o error_n in_o our_o late_a schoolman_n 4._o suar._n disp_n 49._o sect_n 2_o 3_o 4._o three_o concern_v cusanus_fw-la his_fw-la own_o opinion_n there_o can_v be_v nothing_o more_o manifest_a than_o his_o true_a &_o constant_a belief_n of_o transubstantiation_n 446._o excit_fw-la lib._n 6._o edit_n basâ—â—_n 1565._o pag._n 522._o lib._n 4._o p._n 446._o in_o this_o very_a place_n he_o say_v ita_fw-la manent_fw-la accidentia_fw-la ut_fw-la prius_fw-la sed_fw-la substantia_fw-la conversa_fw-la est_fw-la the_o accident_n remain_v as_o before_o but_o the_o substance_n be_v change_v and_o in_o another_o place_n huius_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la institutio_fw-la ita_fw-la facta_fw-la est_fw-la per_fw-la christum_fw-la quod_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o vinum_fw-la in_o sanguinem_fw-la convertitur_fw-la pro_fw-la esca_fw-la spirituali_fw-la sub_fw-la speciebus_fw-la sensibilibus_fw-la the_o institution_n of_o this_o sacrament_n be_v so_o make_v by_o christ_n that_o the_o bread_n be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o wine_n into_o his_o blood_n for_o spiritual_a food_n under_o the_o sensible_a species_n or_o accident_n and_o there_o he_o go_v on_o with_o a_o large_a &_o excellent_a discourse_n express_v all_o thing_n now_o in_o controversy_n as_o transubstantiation_n i_o mean_v the_o very_a word_n concomitancy_n the_o efficacy_n of_o the_o very_a word_n christ_n manner_n of_o presence_n whole_a in_o the_o whole_a host_n &_o whole_a in_o every_o part_n thereof_o illustrate_v and_o prove_v all_o by_o reason_n and_o example_n of_o natural_a thing_n and_o this_o not_o brief_o or_o in_o one_o place_n only_o but_o so_o large_o &_o in_o so_o many_o place_n as_o a_o man_n by_o only_o open_v the_o book_n without_o a_o index_n 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see_v the_o man_n be_v abominable_a lie_v by_o this_o one_o thing_n may_v give_v a_o guess_n of_o the_o rest_n the_o council_n as_o he_o confess_v in_o the_o beginning_n accurse_v he_o and_o his_o doctrine_n and_o here_o he_o say_v it_o conclude_v with_o a_o well_o wish_v thereunto_o be_v it_o even_o so_o good_a sir_n your_o communion_n be_v allow_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n you_o tell_v we_o news_n i_o pray_v you_o what_o canon_n what_o chapter_n what_o session_n be_v your_o communion_n once_o name_v in_o there_o you_o will_v say_v where_o the_o council_n wish_v that_o the_o people_n that_o hear_v mass_n will_v communicate_v not_o only_o spiritual_o but_o also_o sacramental_o be_v this_o your_o communion_n what_o have_v you_o mass_n sir_n humphrey_n take_v heed_n it_o may_v cost_v you_o money_n a_o informer_n that_o shall_v hear_v this_o may_v catch_v you_o by_o the_o back_n and_o bring_v you_o in_o for_o so_o many_o hundred_o mark_n as_o you_o have_v receive_v bytt_n of_o 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it_o as_o you_o translate_v be_v far_o otherwise_o to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v but_o only_o two_o sacrament_n in_o all_o for_o first_o you_o leave_v out_o the_o demonstrative_a pronoune_n haec_fw-la make_v the_o speech_n more_o general_a as_o if_o bessarion_n do_v say_v there_o be_v but_o two_o sacrament_n whereas_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v any_o thing_n that_o way_n in_o these_o word_n of_o the_o number_n of_o sacrament_n in_o general_a but_o restrain_v his_o speech_n to_o these_o two_o in_o particular_a which_o rather_o import_v that_o there_o be_v other_o sacrament_n for_o if_o one_o shall_v say_v these_o two_o man_n come_v this_o way_n or_o these_o two_o horse_n belong_v to_o i_o will_v not_o any_o man_n gather_v that_o there_o be_v more_o man_n beside_o those_o two_o that_o come_v this_o way_n and_o more_o horse_n beside_o those_o two_o that_o i_o say_v belong_v to_o i_o for_o otherwise_o it_o be_v needless_a to_o add_v this_o determine_n or_o distinguish_v pronoune_n these_o 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in_o latin_a may_v many_o time_n alter_v &_o many_o time_n also_o make_v no_o sense_n at_o all_o and_o in_o translation_n the_o sense_n be_v chief_o to_o be_v regard_v three_o you_o put_v in_o the_o pronoune_n relative_a which_o of_o yourself_o and_o change_v the_o participle_n tradita_fw-la in_o to_o the_o verb_n traduntur_fw-la whereby_o of_o one_o proposition_n you_o make_v two_o in_o this_o manner_n we_o read_v of_o two_o only_a sacrament_n that_o be_v of_o two_o and_o no_o more_o which_o two_o be_v express_o deliver_v in_o the_o gospel_n whereas_o bessarion_n make_v but_o one_o proposition_n in_o which_o one_o alsoe_o his_o intention_n be_v not_o so_o much_o to_o affirm_v these_o two_o sacrament_n to_o be_v express_o deliver_v as_o you_o make_v it_o as_o to_o deny_v the_o other_o sacrament_n to_o be_v express_o deliver_v as_o shall_v far_o appear_v by_o his_o own_o word_n here_o then_o in_o this_o little_a sentence_n of_o not_o past_o a_o line_n in_o length_n you_o commit_v 4._o fault_n beside_o one_o which_o i_o pass_v over_o as_o not_o so_o much_o alter_v the_o sense_n one_o in_o leave_v out_o haec_fw-la another_o in_o put_v in_o quae_fw-la a_o three_o in_o change_v the_o word_n tradita_fw-la into_o traduntur_fw-la thereby_o make_v 2._o proposition_n of_o one_o a_o four_o in_o so_o place_v sola_o in_o the_o english_a as_o quite_o to_o alter_v the_o sense_n thereby_o make_v affirmative_n of_o negative_n and_o negative_n of_o affirmative_n the_o least_o of_o which_o in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o alteres_fw-la the_o sense_n can_v be_v excuse_v from_o corruption_n especial_o see_v it_o be_v by_o you_o express_o intend_v for_o you_o say_v that_o bessarion_n conclude_v with_o the_o protestant_n and_o for_o proof_n you_o bring_v his_o word_n thus_o translate_v which_o show_v that_o you_o intend_v his_o authority_n shall_v sound_v so_o as_o if_o there_o be_v but_o two_o sacrament_n as_o you_o teach_v whereby_o you_o will_v lead_v your_o reader_n into_o a_o error_n which_o yet_o you_o do_v in_o such_o a_o manner_n that_o i_o can_v say_v but_o that_o a_o wary_a &_o careful_a reader_n may_v pick_v out_o or_o at_o least_o guess_v at_o bessarion_n true_a meaning_n but_o that_o be_v your_o cunning_n to_o have_v a_o double_a sense_n the_o one_o to_o deceive_v the_o simple_a and_o another_o to_o excuse_v yourself_o against_o the_o objection_n of_o the_o learned_a but_o you_o shall_v remember_v sir_n hum._n there_o be_v a_o woe_n in_o store_n for_o such_o cunning_a man_n 14._o eccles_n 2_o 14._o vae_fw-la duplici_fw-la cord_n &_o labijs_fw-la scelestis_fw-la et_fw-la manibus_fw-la malefacientibus_fw-la &_o peccatori_fw-la terram_fw-la ingredienti_fw-la duabus_fw-la vijs_fw-la woe_n to_o the_o double_a of_o hart_n and_o wicked_a lip_n &_o hand_n ill_o do_v &_o to_o a_o sinner_n go_v on_o the_o earth_n two_o way_n in_o which_o last_o word_n of_o go_v two_o way_n be_v touch_v this_o your_o cunning_n in_o this_o place_n though_o if_o you_o examine_v your_o conscience_n well_o you_o may_v find_v yourself_o guilty_a of_o all_o the_o particular_n of_o this_o sentence_n 18._o but_o now_o to_o bessarion_n i_o answer_v that_o in_o say_v that_o the_o two_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o eucharist_n be_v the_o only_a sacrament_n express_o deliver_v in_o scripture_n he_o come_v not_o near_o the_o curse_n of_o the_o council_n for_o that_o canon_n do_v not_o command_v we_o to_o believe_v that_o these_o two_o or_o more_o or_o less_o be_v deliver_v plain_o or_o not_o plain_o in_o scripture_n it_o leave_v that_o to_o the_o disputation_n of_o divine_n only_o it_o will_v have_v we_o believe_v there_o be_v 7._o sacrament_n that_o they_o be_v institute_v by_o christ_n that_o they_o be_v all_o proper_o sacrament_n against_o which_o bessarion_n have_v not_o a_o word_n but_o rather_o much_o for_o it_o for_o write_v that_o oration_n in_o defence_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o show_v that_o the_o consecration_n in_o the_o eucharist_n be_v perform_v by_o word_n he_o prove_v it_o by_o the_o example_n of_o other_o sacrament_n thus_o conse_n bessar_n de_fw-fr verb._n conse_n hunc_fw-la modum_fw-la &_o apostoli_fw-la a_o saluatore_fw-la ut_fw-la crâ—dendum_fw-la est_fw-la &_o ab_fw-la apostolis_n sanct_n patres_fw-la postea_fw-la sumente_n in_o singulis_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la sacramentis_fw-la quemadmodum_fw-la materiam_fw-la propriam_fw-la sine_fw-la qua_fw-la nullo_n modo_fw-la fieret_fw-la quod_fw-la proponitur_fw-la ita_fw-la etiam_fw-la propriam_fw-la formam_fw-la statuerunt_fw-la quod_fw-la manifestum_fw-la est_fw-la si_fw-la quis_fw-la ad_fw-la chrismatis_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la mentem_fw-la converterit_fw-la this_o manner_n the_o apostle_n receive_v from_o our_o saviour_n as_o it_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v and_o our_o holy_a father_n from_o they_o as_o in_o each_o sacrament_n they_o have_v appoint_v a_o proper_a matter_n without_o which_o that_o can_v be_v do_v which_o be_v purpose_v so_o also_o a_o certain_a form_n which_o be_v manifest_a if_o a_o man_n turn_v his_o mind_n to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o chrism_n by_o which_o word_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o beside_o the_o two_o sacrament_n which_o you_o speak_v of_o he_o acknowledge_v not_o only_o the_o sacrament_n of_o confirmation_n in_o express_a term_n but_o the_o other_o sacrament_n of_o the_o church_n which_o you_o can_v but_o know_v to_o be_v the_o same_o 7._o which_o now_o we_o hold_v but_o what_o need_v any_o man_n more_o argument_n for_o bessarion_n belief_n in_o this_o point_n than_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n wherein_o he_o be_v a_o great_a man_n and_o wherein_o be_v deliver_v that_o decree_n of_o eugenius_n the_o 4._o to_o the_o armenian_n wherein_o the_o seven_o sacrament_n be_v precise_o and_o distinct_o teach_v with_o the_o uniform_a consent_n both_o of_o the_o latin_a and_o greek_a church_n so_o as_o impiety_n itself_o can_v find_v what_o to_o object_v against_o it_o 19_o thus_o then_o have_v deliver_v bessarion_n also_o from_o your_o worship_n be_v imaginary_a curse_n i_o come_v to_o the_o schoolman_n among_o who_o you_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o promise_v your_o reader_n that_o he_o shall_v find_v as_o little_a unity_n as_o among_o the_o father_n which_o as_o you_o say_v in_o a_o evil_a sense_n as_o though_o there_o be_v not_o unity_n among_o the_o father_n so_o do_v i_o yield_v to_o you_o in_o a_o good_a sense_n to_o wit_n that_o as_o there_o be_v unity_n among_o the_o father_n in_o this_o point_n no_o less_o then_o in_o other_o of_o our_o faith_n so_o also_o the_o school_n divine_n their_o child_n succeed_v they_o have_v maintain_v this_o point_n no_o less_o than_o other_o with_o the_o same_o unity_n and_o consent_n as_o i_o shall_v show_v by_o answer_v your_o fond_a cavil_n though_o some_o schoolman_n out_o of_o the_o common_a ignorance_n and_o infirmity_n of_o mankind_n in_o some_o point_v not_o thorough_o discuss_v nor_o define_v by_o the_o church_n do_v
they_o be_v sacrament_n because_o ordain_v by_o christ_n primary_o the_o other_o 5._o not_o and_o for_o proof_n you_o bring_v the_o cardinal_n as_o if_o he_o say_v the_o same_o but_o in_o this_o place_n the_o cardinal_n speak_v not_o one_o word_n either_o of_o their_o be_v or_o not_o be_v sacrament_n or_o be_v or_o not_o be_v institute_v by_o christ_n as_o these_o very_a word_n themselves_o do_v show_v and_o any_o man_n may_v see_v more_o plain_o in_o bellarmine_n himself_o both_o here_o and_o elsewhere_o where_o he_o handle_v those_o matter_n teach_v the_o contrary_a express_o and_o of_o purpose_n what_o madness_n then_o be_v it_o for_o a_o man_n to_o say_v the_o cardinal_n be_v enforce_v upon_o a_o thing_n that_o he_o dream_v not_o of_o to_o confess_v clean_o another_o matter_n now_o bellarmine_n meaning_n in_o that_o place_n be_v only_o of_o the_o signification_n of_o the_o sacrament_n that_o be_v what_o thing_n they_o signify_v because_o they_o be_v sacred_a sign_n of_o something_o and_o he_o say_v they_o signify_v three_o thing_n one_o thing_n past_a to_o wit_n the_o passion_n of_o christ_n another_o present_a to_o wit_n sanctify_v grace_n which_o they_o work_v in_o our_o soul_n another_o thing_n to_o come_v to_o wit_n aeternal_a life_n which_o be_v the_o effect_n of_o grace_n which_o three_o thing_n he_o say_v every_o sacrament_n do_v signify_v and_o he_o say_v it_o be_v certain_a that_o they_o do_v so_o signify_v but_o withal_o that_o the_o signification_n of_o these_o three_o be_v not_o so_o express_v and_o alike_o apparent_a or_o know_v in_o all_o but_o most_o apparent_a in_o baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n not_o so_o apparent_a in_o the_o rest_n which_o last_o word_n be_v in_o latin_a thus_o de_fw-fr alijs_fw-la sacramentis_fw-la non_fw-la estita_fw-la notum_fw-la of_o the_o other_o sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o so_o know_v to_o wit_n that_o they_o signify_v all_o these_o thing_n you_o translate_v or_o rather_o corrupt_v they_o thus_o of_o the_o other_o 5._o it_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a notum_fw-la with_o you_o be_v certain_a and_o whereas_o the_o opposition_n in_o bellarmine_n saying_n be_v between_o know_v and_o not_o know_v 9_o bell._n the_o sacr_n in_o gen_fw-la lib._n 1._o cap._n 9_o you_o make_v it_o between_o know_v or_o apparent_a and_o certain_a which_o be_v not_o opposite_a for_o a_o thing_n may_v be_v certain_a though_o not_o manifest_v as_o all_o matter_n of_o faith_n be_v and_o then_o you_o leave_v out_o that_o which_o bellarmine_n say_v of_o the_o certainty_n thus_o tamen_fw-la certum_fw-la est_fw-la saltem_fw-la implicit_a illa_fw-la omne_fw-la significare_fw-la quia_fw-la cum_fw-la omne_fw-la significent_fw-la gratiam_fw-la consequenter_fw-la etiam_fw-la significant_a principium_fw-la &_o finem_fw-la eiusdem_fw-la gratiae_fw-la but_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o they_o signify_v all_o these_o thing_n at_o least_o implicit_o because_o see_v they_o signify_v grace_n they_o consequent_o also_o signify_v the_o beginning_n and_o end_n of_o the_o same_o grace_n that_o be_v the_o passion_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o cause_n and_o aeternal_a life_n which_o be_v the_o effect_n of_o grace_n whereby_o it_o be_v evident_a how_o shameful_o you_o abuse_v this_o good_a cardinal_n and_o so_o i_o end_v this_o §_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n §._o 5._o 1._o in_o this_o §_o sir_n humphrey_n begin_v with_o the_o 6._o article_n as_o he_o call_v it_o of_o the_o roman_a creed_n i_o confess_v that_o under_o one_o kind_n only_o all_o and_o whole_a christ_n and_o the_o true_a sacrament_n be_v receive_v and_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n which_o say_v that_o notwithstanding_o christ_n do_v institute_v in_o both_o kind_n yet_o the_o laity_n be_v to_o communicate_v in_o one_o kind_n which_o word_n notwithstanding_o the_o knight_n be_v please_v to_o gloss_n thus_o as_o it_o be_v in_o despite_n of_o god_n and_o man._n with_o which_o he_o join_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n say_v thus_o although_o our_o saviour_n do_v exhibit_v in_o both_o kind_n yet_o if_o any_o man_n shall_v say_v the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n be_v not_o induce_v for_o just_a cause_n to_o communicate_v the_o lay_a people_n and_o the_o non-conficient_a priest_n under_o one_o kind_n to_o wit_n of_o bread_n only_o and_o shall_v say_v they_o err_v in_o so_o do_v let_v he_o be_v accurse_v against_o this_o he_o bring_v two_o place_n of_o scripture_n &_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o so_o conclude_v the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o his_o church_n this_o go_v round_o with_o a_o fiddle_n sir_n humphrey_n but_o now_o you_o must_v take_v we_o along_o with_o you_o and_o give_v we_o leave_v to_o come_v with_o you_o a_o little_a upon_o the_o matter_n 2._o this_o you_o say_v be_v the_o 6._o article_n of_o our_o creed_n by_o which_o a_o man_n may_v see_v i_o say_v true_a in_o the_o beginning_n when_o i_o tell_v you_o if_o it_o have_v be_v your_o good_a pleasure_n so_o to_o do_v you_o may_v have_v divide_v this_o creed_n into_o 24._o article_n as_o well_o as_o into_o 12._o for_o this_o be_v but_o a_o little_a libbet_n in_o the_o very_a late_a end_n of_o that_o article_n as_o you_o have_v put_v it_o down_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o your_o book_n which_o piece_n also_o you_o translate_v out_o of_o the_o latin_a false_o and_o absurd_o the_o latin_a be_v thus_o fateor_fw-la etiam_fw-la sub_fw-la altera_fw-la specie_fw-la totum_fw-la atque_fw-la integrum_fw-la christum_fw-la verumque_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la sumi_fw-la i_o confess_v also_o under_o one_o kind_n only_o to_o be_v receive_v christ_n whole_a and_o entire_a and_o a_o true_a sacrament_n whereas_o you_o say_v all_o and_o whole_a christ_n as_o if_o the_o council_n have_v say_v omnis_fw-la &_o totus_fw-la christus_fw-la where_o the_o word_n all_o be_v improper_a for_o who_o speak_v thus_o all_o peter_n all_o paul_n and_o it_o import_v as_o if_o christ_n have_v many_o thing_n pertain_v to_o he_o which_o be_v himself_o but_o yet_o do_v not_o make_v one_o and_o the_o same_o thing_n with_o he_o which_o be_v not_o imaginable_a how_o it_o can_v be_v whereas_o totus_fw-la christus_fw-la do_v signify_v one_o whole_a christ_n and_o omnis_fw-la christus_fw-la and_o totus_fw-la christus_fw-la to_o any_o man_n that_o understand_v latin_a be_v two_o weary_a different_a thing_n and_o in_o your_o translation_n you_o confound_v totus_fw-la and_o integer_fw-la make_v they_o both_o to_o signify_v the_o same_o whereas_o in_o the_o council_n they_o have_v a_o several_a signification_n totus_fw-la pertain_v to_o the_o integrity_n of_o christ_n as_o consist_v of_o essential_a part_n of_o body_n and_o soul_n and_o of_o his_o personality_n and_o divinity_n and_o integer_fw-la pertain_v to_o the_o integrity_n of_o all_o the_o part_n of_o his_o body_n as_o head_n hands_z foot_n etc._n etc._n which_o the_o philosopher_n call_v part_n integrantes_fw-la by_o this_o than_o you_o see_v how_o a_o man_n that_o be_v dispose_v to_o stand_v about_o you_o may_v trouble_v you_o when_o in_o such_o a_o small_a thing_n as_o this_o there_o may_v be_v find_v so_o many_o fault_n 3._o for_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n which_o you_o be_v so_o displease_v withal_o for_o contradict_v the_o word_n of_o christ_n as_o you_o conceive_v i_o think_v there_o may_v be_v find_v a_o mean_n to_o appease_v your_o displeasure_n if_o you_o will_v but_o remember_v that_o at_o the_o same_o time_n and_o in_o the_o same_o decree_n it_o be_v also_o declare_v that_o notwithstanding_o that_o christ_n do_v institute_v the_o bl._n sacrament_n after_o supper_n yet_o man_n shall_v now_o receive_v it_o fast_v which_o decree_n i_o presume_v you_o will_v not_o condemn_v neither_o will_v you_o i_o dare_v say_v gloss_n the_o word_n notwithstanding_o so_o favourable_o in_o your_o own_o behalf_n as_o you_o do_v in_o we_o as_o in_o despite_n of_o god_n and_o man_n you_o will_v receive_v your_o communion_n fast_v though_o christ_n do_v receive_v it_o not_o fast_v but_o even_o after_o supper_n and_o bid_v we_o do_v what_o he_o do_v in_o remembrance_n of_o he_o and_o notwithstanding_o also_o that_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v doubt_v as_o you_o tell_v we_o out_o of_o bellarmine_n but_o that_o be_v best_a &_o fit_a to_o be_v practise_v which_o christ_n himself_o have_v do_v do_v you_o not_o then_o see_v sir_n humphrey_n how_o you_o may_v be_v make_v friend_n with_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n see_v it_o have_v do_v you_o as_o good_a a_o turn_n as_o it_o have_v do_v to_o us._n but_o because_o i_o see_v not_o how_o you_o can_v but_o know_v this_o before_o and_o therefore_o have_v err_v as_o i_o may_v well_o say_v witting_o this_o be_v too_o friendly_a language_n to_o talk_v to_o you_o therefore_o i_o answer_v you_o plain_o in_o bring_v this_o decree_n this_o you_o have_v bring_v a_o staff_n to_o beat_v yourself_o withal_o for_o the_o
non_fw-la obstante_fw-la which_o you_o will_v join_v with_o christ_n institution_n in_o both_o kind_n as_o if_o the_o council_n do_v forbid_v it_o in_o both_o kind_n notwithstanding_o that_o christ_n do_v so_o institute_v be_v not_o so_o join_v by_o the_o council_n but_o otherwise_o thus_o though_o christ_n do_v institute_v this_o venerable_a sacrament_n after_o supper_n 13._o conc._n const_n sess_v 13._o and_o administer_v the_o same_o to_o his_o disciple_n under_o both_o kind_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n yet_o this_o notwithstanding_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o holy_a canon_n &_o approve_a custom_n of_o the_o church_n have_v observe_v and_o do_v observe_v that_o this_o sacrament_n be_v not_o to_o be_v consecrate_v after_o supper_n nor_o to_o be_v receive_v by_o the_o faithful_a but_o fast_v unless_o in_o case_n of_o infirmity_n or_o other_o necessity_n allow_v by_o the_o law_n or_o church_n these_o be_v the_o very_a word_n of_o the_o council_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o the_o council_n speak_v not_o in_o this_o place_n of_o the_o institution_n of_o this_o sacrament_n in_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n but_o only_o of_o the_o time_n of_o the_o institution_n thereof_o or_o manner_n to_o wit_n after_o supper_n or_o not_o fast_v and_o of_o the_o administration_n thereof_o to_o his_o disciple_n in_o both_o kind_n at_o the_o same_o tyme._n so_o as_o i_o see_v not_o how_o you_o can_v be_v excuse_v from_o a_o notable_a and_o wilful_a corruption_n in_o cite_v the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n often_o and_o upon_o several_a occasion_n thus_o though_o christ_n do_v institute_v in_o both_o kind_n the_o council_n have_v no_o such_o word_n and_o it_o be_v likewise_o note_v by_o bellarmine_n for_o a_o flat_a corruption_n in_o luther_n 26._o v_o bell_n de_fw-fr euch_fw-ge lib._n 4._o cap._n 26._o illyricus_n and_o cheâ—nitius_n though_o if_o the_o council_n have_v say_v so_o it_o have_v say_v true_o but_o nothing_o to_o your_o purpose_n for_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o say_v that_o christ_n do_v institute_v the_o bless_a sacrament_n under_o both_o kind_n and_o another_o to_o say_v that_o he_o do_v institute_v and_o command_v all_o shall_v receive_v under_o both_o kind_n for_o this_o late_a be_v a_o command_n against_o which_o no_o man_n may_v do_v the_o former_a be_v only_o the_o example_n of_o christ_n which_o every_o man_n be_v not_o always_o bind_v to_o follow_v and_o which_o even_o you_o yourselves_o do_v not_o follow_v in_o the_o time_n and_o manner_n of_o your_o receive_n 4._o now_o for_o we_o you_o must_v know_v this_o be_v no_o new_a thing_n begin_v by_o that_o council_n in_o which_o respect_n you_o may_v temper_v your_o choler_n against_o it_o but_o it_o be_v grow_v the_o general_a practice_n which_o from_o the_o beginning_n also_o be_v somewhat_o practise_v and_o certain_a haeretique_n arise_v and_o condemn_v the_o practice_n &_o belief_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n this_o council_n condemn_v they_o and_o command_v the_o former_a custom_n to_o be_v still_o retain_v this_o be_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o matter_n against_o which_o i_o do_v not_o see_v that_o you_o say_v a_o word_n but_o only_o chafe_v and_o say_v this_o council_n be_v approve_v for_o so_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o doctrine_n againct_n haeretique_n but_o not_o for_o that_o that_o pertain_v to_o the_o power_n of_o a_o council_n over_o a_o pope_n which_o be_v all_o against_o yourself_o and_o show_v you_o be_v in_o a_o vehement_a passion_n and_o know_v not_o what_o you_o say_v but_o since_o you_o be_v so_o out_o with_o this_o council_n which_o yet_o make_v as_o well_o for_o you_o as_o for_o we_o in_o the_o point_n of_o receive_v fast_v and_o not_o after_o supper_n as_o christ_n do_v no_o wonder_n if_o you_o be_v whole_o out_o with_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n which_o therefore_o you_o cite_v in_o a_o strange_a manner_n to_o disgrace_v it_o 5._o the_o sentence_n as_o you_o cite_v it_o be_v this_o although_o our_o saviour_n do_v exhibit_v in_o both_o kind_n yet_o if_o any_o shall_v say_v the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n be_v not_o induce_v for_o just_a cause_n to_o communicate_v the_o lay_v people_n and_o the_o non-conficient_a priest_n under_o one_o kind_n to_o wit_n of_o bread_n only_o and_o shall_v say_v they_o err_v in_o so_o do_v let_v he_o be_v accurse_v which_o sentence_n be_v peece_v out_o of_o two_o several_a place_n of_o the_o council_n the_o former_a part_n contain_v in_o these_o word_n althouhg_n our_o saviour_n do_v exhibit_v in_o both_o kind_n yet_o be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o 3._o chap._n of_o the_o 21._o sess_n the_o late_a part_n or_o rest_n be_v the_o 2._o canon_n of_o the_o same_o sess_n which_o canon_n as_o it_o be_v set_v down_o in_o the_o council_n have_v neither_o a_o yet_o in_o it_o nor_o a_o althought_v and_o the_o yet_o in_o the_o say_v 3._o chapter_n infer_v another_o thing_n thus_o though_o christ_n do_v institute_v and_o deliver_v the_o bl._n sacrament_n to_o his_o apostle_n in_o both_o kind_n in_o the_o last_o supper_n yet_o be_v christ_n contain_v whole_a and_o entire_a under_o one_o kind_n and_o a_o true_a sacrament_n receive_v which_o be_v another_o matter_n then_o that_o which_o be_v command_v in_o the_o canon_n for_o in_o this_o be_v only_o teach_v that_o christ_n be_v whole_o and_o entire_o contain_v under_o one_o kind_n in_o the_o canon_n there_o be_v a_o curse_n denounce_v against_o such_o as_o shall_v condemn_v the_o practice_n of_o communicate_v under_o one_o kind_n as_o want_v just_a cause_n or_o be_v erroneous_a where_o beside_o the_o difference_n in_o the_o matter_n there_o be_v great_a difference_n in_o the_o manner_n the_o one_o be_v a_o plain_a definition_n of_o a_o speculative_a truth_n the_o other_o be_v a_o command_n pertain_v to_o practice_v or_o a_o declaration_n of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o church_n practice_n condemn_v whosoever_o shall_v say_v against_o it_o so_o as_o here_o you_o piece_n two_o several_a matter_n out_o of_o the_o council_n together_o without_o any_o connexion_n just_a as_o you_o be_v wont_a to_o do_v in_o your_o own_o argument_n and_o discourse_n but_o in_o this_o a_o man_n may_v see_v your_o ill_a deal_n for_o you_o will_v fain_o make_v it_o seem_v as_o if_o the_o council_n do_v decree_v something_o in_o opposition_n to_o christ_n and_o accurse_v all_o such_o as_o shall_v do_v as_o he_o do_v but_o this_o device_n of_o you_o be_v as_o silly_a as_o it_o be_v malicious_a for_o it_o be_v plain_a to_o any_o man_n that_o shall_v but_o look_v in_o the_o council_n that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o matter_n intend_v or_o say_v but_o all_o the_o contrary_a for_o the_o council_n say_v but_o this_o in_o the_o one_o place_n that_o though_o christ_n do_v institute_v this_o sacrament_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o so_o give_v it_o in_o his_o last_o supper_n to_o his_o disciple_n that_o yet_o he_o be_v whole_a under_o each_o kind_n wherein_o i_o will_v fain_o see_v what_o opposition_n the_o subtlety_n of_o your_o wit_n can_v find_v what_o reason_n can_v you_o give_v why_o it_o may_v not_o stand_v with_o christ_n institution_n in_o both_o kind_n that_o he_o be_v whole_a under_o both_o and_o if_o whole_o why_o not_o also_o a_o true_a sacrament_n this_o be_v a_o point_n worthy_a of_o such_o a_o wit_n as_o your_o to_o work_v upon_o so_o as_o in_o this_o the_o council_n decree_v nothing_o against_o christ_n no_o nor_o in_o the_o other_o part_n neither_o it_o be_v only_o a_o defence_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n practice_n against_o haeretique_n without_o reference_n to_o christ_n institution_n or_o command_n which_o be_v neither_o for_o nor_o against_o that_o practice_n 6._o so_o as_o when_o i_o consider_v how_o in_o this_o place_n you_o first_o mention_n christ_n institution_n and_o then_o bring_v the_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n as_o it_o be_v contrary_a unto_o it_o i_o can_v but_o wonder_v what_o it_o be_v you_o mean_v or_o what_o absurdity_n it_o be_v that_o you_o will_v make_v the_o council_n guilty_a of_o thereby_o for_o though_o the_o council_n shall_v say_v thus_o as_o it_o do_v not_o though_o christ_n do_v institute_v in_o both_o kind_n yet_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o receive_v in_o one_o what_o absurdity_n be_v there_o in_o this_o so_o long_o as_o christ_n do_v not_o command_v we_o to_o receive_v in_o both_o as_o he_o do_v institute_v which_o you_o will_v never_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v for_o christ_n may_v institute_v a_o thing_n without_o command_v it_o for_o example_n he_o do_v institute_v marriage_n yet_o command_v not_o every_o man_n to_o marry_v so_o he_o may_v do_v also_o in_o his_o manner_n of_o institution_n and_o our_o manner_n of_o receive_v this_o sacrament_n but_o beside_o this_o your_o abuse_v the_o council_n by_o patch_v up_o one_o sentence_n out_o of_o
say_v mention_v the_o story_n there_o be_v not_o one_o that_o make_v any_o mention_n of_o change_v the_o church-office_n into_o latin_a upon_o it_o but_o only_o they_o allege_v it_o by_o occasion_n of_o the_o secret_a read_n of_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o mass_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n they_o have_v in_o hand_n 15._o now_o for_o the_o story_n itself_o you_o can_v but_o know_v that_o it_o be_v answer_v by_o bellarmine_n it_o be_v object_v former_o by_o kemnitius_n 12_o bell_n lib._n 2._o the_o miss_n cap._n 12_o his_o answer_n then_o be_v that_o there_o be_v such_o a_o story_n relate_v by_o good_a authority_n in_o pratum_fw-la spiritual_fw-la but_o there_o neither_o the_o bread_n nor_o wine_n be_v transubstantiate_v but_o consume_v by_o fire_n from_o heaven_n nor_o the_o shepherd_n strike_v dead_a but_o only_o lay_v for_o dead_a 24._o hour_n after_o which_o they_o come_v to_o themselves_o again_o which_o be_v neither_o impossible_a nor_o improbable_a now_o for_o these_o three_o author_n that_o you_o cite_v none_o of_o they_o do_v relate_v it_o out_o of_o any_o author_n or_o with_o any_o special_a credit_n but_o only_o out_o of_o a_o report_n which_o they_o express_v by_o the_o word_n fertur_fw-la and_o therefore_o some_o of_o they_o as_o honorius_n and_o belethus_n may_v be_v mistake_v in_o some_o of_o the_o circumstance_n though_o innocentius_n be_v not_o 1._o innoc._n 3_o lib._n 3._o de_fw-fr miss_n cap._n 1._o for_o he_o say_v no_o more_o of_o it_o but_o this_o that_o it_o be_v report_v that_o when_o certain_a shepherd_n do_v sing_v the_o word_n in_o the_o field_n they_o be_v strike_v from_o heaven_n which_o be_v true_a now_o this_o suppose_a as_o the_o story_n do_v not_o make_v any_o way_n against_o we_o for_o we_o grant_v that_o the_o word_n be_v ancient_o pronounce_v aloud_o in_o some_o place_n so_o it_o make_v against_o you_o who_o deny_v that_o any_o where_o they_o be_v speak_v soft_o for_o the_o author_n of_o this_o story_n give_v a_o reason_n how_o the_o boy_n come_v to_o learn_v the_o word_n say_v thus_o 196._o prat._n spirit_n cap._n 196._o quoniam_fw-la verò_fw-la quibusdam_fw-la in_o locis_fw-la alta_fw-la voce_fw-la consueverant_fw-la presbyteri_fw-la sancti_fw-la sacrificij_fw-la orationes_fw-la pronunciare_fw-la pveri_fw-la ut_fw-la propius_fw-la astantes_fw-la saepius_fw-la eas_fw-la audiendo_fw-la didicerant_fw-la because_o in_o some_o place_n the_o priest_n be_v wont_a to_o pronounce_v the_o prayer_n of_o the_o holy_a sacrifice_n with_o a_o loud_a voice_n the_o boy_n as_o stand_v near_o by_o often_o hear_v have_v learn_v they_o loe_o sir_n humphrey_n it_o be_v but_o in_o some_o place_n that_o they_o do_v say_v those_o prayer_n aloud_o so_o that_o withal_o this_o labour_n you_o have_v prove_v nothing_o but_o against_o yourself_o well_o then_o you_o have_v fail_v in_o the_o proof_n of_o your_o doctrine_n in_o this_o as_o in_o the_o rest_n withal_o the_o corruption_n and_o trick_n you_o can_v use_v let_v we_o see_v what_o you_o do_v in_o the_o next_o §._o 7._o worship_n of_o image_n 1._o this_o 7._o §_o of_o image-worshipp_a our_o knight_n begin_v after_o his_o ordinary_a manner_n with_o a_o article_n as_o he_o call_v it_o of_o our_o roman_a creed_n wherein_o we_o profess_v that_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n our_o lady_n and_o the_o saint_n be_v to_o be_v have_v and_o retain_v and_o that_o due_a honour_n and_o veneration_n be_v to_o be_v yield_v unto_o they_o and_o then_o bring_v the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n 25._o sess_n 25._o for_o the_o same_o point_n in_o these_o word_n we_o teach_v that_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n the_o virgin_n mother_n of_o god_n and_o other_o saint_n be_v chief_o in_o church_n to_o be_v have_v and_o retain_v and_o that_o due_a honour_n and_o worship_n be_v to_o be_v give_v they_o which_o decree_n he_o may_v have_v translate_v a_o little_a better_o and_o more_o clear_o by_o say_v that_o those_o image_n be_v to_o be_v have_v and_o retain_v especial_o in_o church_n the_o latin_a word_n be_v praesertim_fw-la and_o his_o translate_n thereof_o chief_o and_o place_v it_o so_o odd_o give_v cause_n to_o think_v he_o have_v a_o evil_a meaning_n therein_o as_o if_o he_o will_v have_v his_o reader_n think_v that_o the_o council_n teach_v that_o these_o image_n be_v the_o chief_a thing_n to_o be_v have_v in_o church_n which_o be_v not_o the_o council'_v meaning_n as_o be_v plain_a the_o word_n be_v very_o clear_a in_o latin_a but_o this_o be_v but_o a_o note_n by_o the_o way_n not_o as_o a_o thing_n that_o i_o stand_v upon_o 2._o this_o our_o doctrine_n of_o image-worship_n he_o do_v absolute_o deny_v and_o condemn_v as_o a_o wicked_a and_o blasphemous_a opinion_n first_o because_o it_o not_o only_o want_v authority_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o say_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n ought_v to_o have_v but_o because_o the_o scripture_n do_v flat_o and_o plain_o forbid_v it_o and_o in_o the_o margin_n cit_v levit._n 26._o ex._n 20._o deut._n 4._o esay_n 40._o this_o censure_n be_v somewhat_o deep_a sir_n humphrey_n upon_o such_o sleight_n ground_n because_o forsooth_o we_o have_v no_o proof_n of_o scripture_n for_o though_o you_o think_v it_o necessary_a to_o have_v express_a proof_n of_o scripture_n to_o make_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n yet_o as_o i_o say_v before_o you_o be_v much_o mistake_v wherefore_o you_o ought_v not_o to_o stand_v still_o urge_v it_o in_o such_o manner_n as_o if_o it_o be_v a_o certain_a and_o undoubted_a principle_n yet_o this_o i_o grant_v you_o that_o though_o express_a scripture_n be_v not_o necessary_a to_o make_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n yet_o if_o you_o have_v express_v scripture_n against_o it_o it_o be_v true_a it_o can_v be_v no_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o by_o your_o leave_n none_o of_o those_o place_n which_o you_o note_v make_v any_o mention_n of_o image-worship_n but_o idol-worship_n which_o you_o can_v but_o know_v to_o be_v a_o different_a thing_n have_v be_v so_o often_o tell_v it_o as_o you_o have_v be_v by_o we_o therefore_o your_o first_o proof_n fail_v all_o faill_v for_o though_o you_o put_v a_o first_o yet_o i_o see_v no_o second_o and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o 3._o but_o because_o here_o have_v be_v a_o end_n too_o soon_o of_o so_o good_a a_o matter_n you_o tell_v we_o vazq_n say_v all_o image_n be_v forbid_v so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o be_v dedicate_v to_o adoration_n and_o cornelius_n agrippa_n say_v the_o jew_n do_v abhor_v nothing_o more_o than_o image_n to_o the_o same_o purpose_n you_o allege_v philo_n the_o jew_n speak_v of_o the_o jew_n of_o those_o time_n and_o sir_n edwin_n sand_n of_o the_o jew_n that_o be_v now_o adays_o whereupon_o you_o conclude_v that_o it_o be_v agree_v upon_o on_o both_o side_n that_o the_o jew_n never_o allow_v adoration_n of_o image_n for_o 4000_o year_n and_o from_o thence_o you_o descend_v to_o the_o new_a testament_n wherein_o you_o say_v the_o same_o law_n remain_v because_o it_o be_v moral_a for_o though_o some_o catholic_n teach_v that_o it_o be_v a_o positive_a caeremonial_a law_n yet_o other_o say_v it_o be_v natural_a and_o for_o that_o you_o allege_v bellar._n wherefore_o the_o law_n be_v not_o abrogate_a you_o will_v have_v some_o example_n or_o precept_n in_o the_o gospel_n for_o adoration_n of_o which_o you_o say_v mr._n fisher_n acknowledge_v there_o be_v not_o any_o express_v but_o that_o there_o be_v principle_n which_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n suppose_v convince_v adoration_n to_o be_v lawful_a so_o as_o from_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n say_v you_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v declare_v well_o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n which_o in_o a_o word_n be_v but_o this_o the_o jew_n may_v not_o have_v nor_o adore_v image_n ergo_fw-la we_o may_v not_o for_o asweare_v whereof_o i_o may_v say_v in_o like_a sort_n the_o jew_n may_v not_o eat_v blood_n nor_o swine_n flesh_n nor_o many_o other_o thing_n ergo_fw-la we_o may_v not_o but_o because_o you_o may_v say_v these_o precept_n be_v caeremonial_a &_o therefore_o not_o now_o in_o force_n the_o other_o natural_a &_o therefore_o in_o force_n for_o the_o present_a i_o will_v only_o make_v this_o argument_n to_o show_v the_o connexion_n of_o your_o antecedent_n and_o consequent_a the_o jew_n may_v not_o make_v any_o similitude_n or_o likeness_n of_o any_o thing_n in_o heaven_n or_o earth_n to_o adore_v it_o for_o a_o god_n ergo_fw-la we_o may_v not_o make_v or_o have_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n and_o saint_n to_o reverence_n and_o honour_v they_o as_o the_o picture_n of_o saint_n only_o and_o not_o god_n be_v not_o here_o a_o good_a and_o a_o substantial_a argument_n trow_v you_o and_o yet_o it_o be_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n 4._o but_o say_v you_o there_o be_v such_o a_o command_n of_o
recordandum_fw-la non_fw-la ad_fw-la colendum_fw-la the_o ancient_n have_v the_o picture_n of_o saint_n paint_v or_o carve_v for_o history_n to_o remember_v not_o to_o be_v worship_v this_o it_o may_v be_v be_v it_o you_o will_v be_v at_o but_o i_o answer_v that_o both_o these_o and_o those_o of_o you_o if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o the_o sense_n of_o his_o whole_a discourse_n to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v no_o example_n in_o the_o scripture_n or_o father_n of_o such_o idolatrial_a adoration_n as_o he_o speak_v against_o there_o which_o be_v true_a which_o to_o be_v his_o meaning_n i_o shall_v by_o and_o by_o demonstrate_v more_o plain_o now_o for_o the_o last_o word_n to_o wit_n that_o image_n ought_v to_o be_v take_v for_o a_o ornament_n to_o please_v the_o sight_n not_o to_o instruct_v the_o people_n i_o do_v not_o also_o find_v they_o but_o these_o aspiciamus_fw-la picturam_fw-la quasi_fw-la pictura_fw-la sensu_fw-la &_o ratione_fw-la 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upon_o so_o wise_a and_o learned_a a_o man_n &_o so_o contrary_a to_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n &_o even_o to_o your_o own_o practice_n for_o if_o picture_n may_v not_o be_v use_v for_o instruction_n of_o the_o people_n why_o do_v your_o painter_n draw_v the_o king_n prince_z &_o lord_n in_o the_o parliament_n house_n the_o siege_n of_o rochel_n berghen_n open_fw-mi zoome_n bolduc_n breda_n &_o the_o like_a but_o for_o instruction_n relic_n of_o s._n polycarpe_n and_o withal_o he_o relate_v with_o applause_n and_o commendation_n how_o the_o people_n of_o alexandria_n have_v destroy_v their_o idol_n and_o be_v convert_v to_o christ_n so_o great_a fervour_n of_o christianity_n inflame_v their_o heart_n that_o every_o one_o paint_v the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n on_o their_o post_n door_n window_n wall_n &_o pillard_n and_o to_o conclude_v tell_v of_o s._n gregory_n the_o great_a how_o he_o reprehend_v the_o bishop_n of_o frioly_a for_o beat_v down_o out_o of_o his_o curch_n the_o image_n of_o the_o apostle_n peter_n and_o paul_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o superstition_n of_o the_o vulgar_a sort_n adore_v they_o contrary_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n as_o also_o for_o that_o he_o do_v not_o rather_o by_o his_o authority_n correct_v their_o error_n let_v the_o picture_n stand_v for_o the_o memory_n of_o posterity_n then_o by_o indiscreet_a zeal_n beat_v they_o down_o wherein_o then_o be_v agobardus_n different_a from_o s._n gregory_n and_o other_o father_n nothing_o at_o all_o but_o rather_o his_o authority_n join_v here_o together_o with_o s._n gregory_n in_o the_o last_o place_n may_v serve_v for_o answer_n to_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o your_o frivolous_a objection_n which_o you_o bring_v to_o the_o paragraph_n of_o the_o abuse_n and_o danger_n of_o image_n 20._o as_o for_o the_o abuse_v it_o be_v not_o such_o as_o you_o talk_v of_o but_o suppose_v it_o be_v that_o be_v to_o be_v take_v away_o as_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n &_o in_o it_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n do_v teach_v the_o good_a must_v not_o for_o if_o every_o thing_n shall_v be_v present_o take_v away_o because_o it_o be_v ill_o use_v by_o man_n what_o will_v become_v of_o this_o world_n you_o must_v therefore_o learn_v a_o axiom_n of_o the_o law_n 6._o de_fw-fr reg_fw-la iur_fw-fr n_z 6._o utile_fw-la per_fw-la inutile_fw-la non_fw-la vitiatur_fw-la the_o profitable_a be_v not_o vitiate_a or_o spoil_v by_o the_o unprofitable_a separate_a that_o which_o be_v unprofitable_a from_o the_o profitable_a and_o keep_v the_o late_a that_o be_v the_o profitable_a or_o good_a which_o i_o dare_v bold_o say_v be_v far_o better_a to_o counsel_v they_o that_o which_o you_o give_v to_o wit_n that_o image_n shall_v be_v absolute_o forbid_v till_o some_o condition_n set_v down_o by_o bellar._n or_o rather_o by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n for_o they_o be_v the_o same_o be_v perform_v which_o as_o you_o think_v though_o false_o be_v not_o perform_v to_o wit_n that_o image_n be_v honour_v only_o for_o they_o who_o they_o represent_v without_o place_v confidence_n in_o they_o or_o request_v any_o thing_n of_o they_o or_o conceive_v any_o divinity_n in_o they_o for_o where_o shall_v you_o find_v so_o simple_a a_o soul_n one_o among_o 10000_o in_o the_o catholic_a church_n that_o do_v not_o perform_v the_o forename_a condition_n or_o if_o there_o shall_v be_v one_o such_o silly_a old_a woman_n must_v the_o other_o 10000_o be_v debar_v of_o all_o that_o fruit_n &_o god_n &_o his_o saint_n of_o all_o that_o honour_n that_o come_v by_o have_v see_v &_o adore_v they_o in_o their_o image_n as_o we_o all_o do_v this_o council_n i_o say_v of_o i_o or_o not_o i_o but_o of_o the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n you_o shall_v find_v to_o be_v better_o by_o the_o very_a testimony_n of_o gabriel_n who_o you_o bring_v in_o reprehend_v the_o blockishness_n of_o some_o people_n for_o not_o observe_v the_o foresay_a condition_n in_o the_o worship_v of_o image_n in_o his_o 49._o lect_n which_o be_v the_o place_n by_o you_o cite_v though_o you_o sir_n humph._n false_o cite_v it_o lect_v 14._o but_o that_o may_v be_v your_o printer_n fault_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v of_o the_o veneration_n of_o the_o most_o divine_a sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n in_o which_o he_o treat_v large_o of_o three_o kind_n of_o worship_n latria_n hyperdulia_fw-la and_o dulia_n as_o our_o divine_a doe_n which_o he_o say_v belong_v proper_o to_o a_o rational_a nature_n improper_o to_o irrational_a either_o in_o regard_n of_o representation_n or_o connexion_n which_o may_v have_v with_o the_o rational_a or_o reasonable_a nature_n and_o then_o reprehend_v the_o foolishness_n of_o some_o who_o neither_o know_v themselves_o nor_o will_v with_o humility_n learn_v of_o other_o the_o true_a nature_n of_o adoration_n conclude_v at_o last_o thus_o nec_fw-la tamen_fw-la propter_fw-la hoc_fw-la imagine_v proiiciendae_fw-la sunt_fw-la etc._n etc._n neither_o for_o this_o be_v image_n to_o be_v throw_v away_o or_o thrust_v out_o of_o oratory_n by_o occasion_n or_o pretence_n of_o avoid_v idolatry_n or_o pilgrimage_n to_o certain_a picture_n or_o certain_a place_n either_o consecrate_v or_o not_o consecrate_v to_o be_v reprove_v so_o gabriel_n which_o word_n you_o can_v not_o but_o see_v if_o you_o see_v the_o other_o which_o you_o cite_v for_o they_o follow_v immediate_o and_o therefore_o it_o have_v be_v more_o honesty_n for_o you_o to_o have_v forbear_v the_o cite_n of_o the_o former_a if_o you_o do_v not_o mean_a to_o cite_v the_o late_a as_o it_o seem_v you_o do_v not_o for_o that_o which_o you_o conclude_v with_o compare_v we_o to_o demetrius_n in_o the_o scripture_n that_o make_v a_o live_n of_o make_v silver_n shrine_v for_o diana_n temple_n as_o if_o we_o maintain_v image_n to_o bring_v money_n to_o our_o purse_n it_o be_v lindinge_a sir_n humphrey_n you_o know_v my_o meaning_n you_o and_o such_o as_o you_o that_o perhaps_o have_v have_v your_o share_n in_o pull_v down_o of_o image_n and_o silver_n shrine_v this_o last_o hundred_o year_n be_v more_o like_a to_o be_v draw_v with_o the_o love_n of_o gain_n to_o the_o pull_v down_o of_o image_n than_o we_o that_o lose_v all_o for_o maintain_v and_o set_v they_o up_o for_o what_o we_o and_o our_o ancestor_n have_v part_v with_o from_o ourselves_o and_o out_o of_o our_o own_o purse_n for_o the_o honour_n of_o god_n and_o his_o saint_n you_o or_o man_n of_o your_o religion_n pull_v back_o from_o god_n &_o his_o saint_n to_o bestow_v upon_o your_o back_n and_o belly_n and_o upon_o you_o minister_n their_o wife_n and_o bat_n werefore_o you_o may_v have_v hold_v your_o peace_n of_o that_o matter_n and_o so_o now_o i_o conclude_v this_o §_o where_o i_o hope_v i_o have_v make_v it_o appear_v that_o all_o your_o great_a word_n against_o image_n be_v but_o
wind_n indulgence_n §._o 8._o 1._o we_o be_v now_o come_v to_o the_o last_o §_o of_o this_o chapter_n which_o be_v indulgence_n which_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n begin_v after_o your_o wont_a manner_n with_o the_o ten_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n as_o you_o call_v it_o and_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n teach_v that_o christ_n have_v leave_v that_o power_n of_o grant_v indulgence_n in_o his_o church_n and_o that_o the_o church_n have_v use_v the_o same_o from_o most_o ancient_a time_n and_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v to_o be_v retain_v in_o the_o church_n condemn_v also_o whosoever_o shall_v term_v they_o unprofitable_a or_o deny_v authority_n in_o the_o church_n to_o grant_v they_o which_o doctrine_n you_o allow_v not_o of_o as_o not_o be_v agreeable_a to_o christ_n institution_n nor_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a father_n you_o confess_v indeed_o that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v a_o power_n in_o the_o bishop_n to_o remit_v or_o mitigate_v the_o severity_n of_o the_o punishment_n which_o by_o the_o canon_n man_n be_v to_o undergo_v for_o certain_a great_a crime_n which_o mitigation_n you_o allow_v to_o have_v be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o indulgence_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n you_o take_v that_o relaxation_n of_o the_o incestuous_a corithian_a by_o s_n paul_n thus_o far_o you_o go_v well_o with_o we_o but_o now_o you_o say_v the_o indulgence_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n &_o his_o saint_n term_v the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n which_o treasure_n you_o say_v be_v apply_v to_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o leave_v to_o the_o discretion_n of_o every_o bishop_n in_o his_o diocese_n be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o this_o not_o only_o for_o some_o few_o year_n in_o this_o life_n but_o for_o many_o thousand_o in_o purgatory_n after_o death_n 2._o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n which_o though_o you_o seem_v to_o take_v to_o be_v a_o very_a good_a and_o substantial_a one_o yet_o be_v it_o nothing_o so_o for_o first_o it_o neither_o prove_v any_o thing_n nor_o overthrow_v our_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n though_o that_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o difference_n between_o our_o indulgence_n of_o these_o time_n and_o those_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o use_n of_o those_o time_n be_v not_o our_o only_a ground_n for_o this_o point_n of_o doctrine_n but_o we_o have_v other_o both_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n &_o undoubted_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o above_o a_o thousand_o year_n at_o least_o and_o this_o of_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n in_o relaxation_n of_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o penitential_a canon_n be_v not_o urge_v by_o we_o at_o lest_o by_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n as_o a_o evident_a convince_a proof_n but_o only_o as_o coniectural_a and_o probable_a q._n suar._n to_o 3._o in_o 3._o pars_fw-la disp_n 49_o sect_n 2._o n._n 4.5_o &_o sâ—_n q._n it_o be_v not_o then_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o you_o to_o stand_v so_o much_o urge_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o indulgence_n of_o our_o time_n and_o those_o of_o other_o former_a time_n as_o if_o by_o do_v that_o you_o have_v do_v all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v do_v 3._o but_o beside_o to_o answer_n second_o you_o have_v not_o do_v even_o that_o for_o you_o do_v but_o only_o make_v show_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v man_n think_v they_o be_v different_a without_o show_v wherein_o the_o difference_n consist_v nay_o even_o out_o of_o that_o which_o you_o grant_v of_o those_o ancient_a indulgence_n you_o may_v be_v disprove_v in_o what_o you_o deny_v of_o we_o for_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o very_a word_n indulgence_n you_o grant_v it_o to_o have_v be_v in_o use_n in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v we_o be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n which_o though_o allege_v as_o a_o difference_n yet_o do_v i_o not_o see_v wherein_o the_o difference_n be_v for_o they_o be_v a_o absolution_n because_o it_o be_v a_o unloose_n or_o untie_n for_o whereas_o by_o the_o canon_n for_o certain_a great_a crime_n man_n be_v bind_v or_o tie_v to_o undergo_v such_o penance_n for_o example_n to_o fast_o with_o bread_n and_o water_n so_o many_o day_n in_o a_o week_n for_o so_o many_o month_n or_o year_n not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n and_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n and_o the_o like_a by_o this_o indulgence_n or_o pardon_n which_o you_o grant_v they_o be_v untie_v or_o loose_v from_o so_o much_o or_o so_o little_a as_o by_o that_o pardon_n they_o be_v free_v from_o and_o so_o be_v it_o in_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n be_v not_o in_o the_o absolution_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o lose_v or_o untie_n it_o can_v not_o be_v also_o in_o the_o guilt_n which_o must_v needs_o be_v remit_v in_o your_o indulgence_n as_o well_o as_o in_o we_o for_o a_o man_n be_v not_o free_a so_o long_o as_o he_o be_v guilty_a if_o then_o they_o be_v free_v by_o that_o pardon_n the_o guilt_n be_v take_v away_o thereby_o it_o be_v not_o likewise_o in_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n which_o be_v alike_o remit_v in_o the_o one_o and_o other_o for_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n or_o penance_n which_o man_n be_v free_v from_o in_o those_o time_n by_o indulgence_n and_o so_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n which_o we_o be_v now_o adays_o free_v from_o by_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o you_o mean_v sir_n humphrey_n when_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v a_o difference_n in_o this_o say_v that_o indulgence_n which_o be_v first_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n for_o what_o be_v not_o those_o indulgence_n give_v to_o private_a man_n for_o satisfaction_n or_o in_o lieu_n of_o that_o satisfaction_n which_o they_o be_v to_o make_v by_o the_o canon_n and_o be_v not_o we_o mitigation_n of_o the_o same_o unless_o you_o put_v the_o force_n in_o this_o that_o there_o the_o punishment_n be_v only_o mitigate_v or_o lessen_v &_o that_o in_o our_o indulgence_n all_o be_v take_v away_o which_o yet_o be_v false_a on_o both_o side_n for_o neither_o in_o we_o be_v all_o the_o punishment_n take_v always_o away_o and_o in_o those_o sometime_o all_o be_v take_v away_o as_o we_o see_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o corinthian_a who_o s._n paul_n do_v forgive_v without_o limitation_n beside_o this_o i_o do_v not_o imagine_v what_o you_o can_v mean_v in_o these_o word_n 4._o the_o difference_n also_o be_v not_o in_o the_o authority_n or_o power_n whereby_o this_o pardon_n be_v grant_v for_o than_o it_o be_v grant_v by_o the_o bishop_n and_o so_o it_o be_v also_o now_o for_o every_o bishop_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v this_o power_n but_o you_o will_v say_v humphrey_n not_o so_o much_o now_o as_o then_o be_v it_o so_o that_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o that_o be_v your_o complaint_n that_o it_o be_v more_o use_v now_o then_o in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v again_o the_o pope_n have_v more_o now_o than_o he_o have_v then_o and_o that_o all_o be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o he_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o late_a part_n be_v false_a all_o be_v not_o so_o whole_o transfer_v but_o that_o every_o bishop_n have_v his_o part_n of_o this_o power_n over_o his_o own_o subject_n though_o with_o some_o limitation_n and_o though_o the_o pope_n shall_v take_v it_o whole_o to_o himself_o and_o from_o other_o bishop_n what_o be_v this_o against_o indulgence_n do_v it_o alter_v the_o nature_n of_o they_o because_o the_o pope_n give_v they_o either_o more_o by_o himself_o or_o more_o liberal_o than_o he_o do_v heretofore_o by_o other_o the_o power_n be_v in_o many_o before_o now_o it_o be_v in_o one_o that_o one_o than_o have_v more_o power_n than_o he_o have_v before_o but_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o power_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n can_v consist_v in_o this_o but_o think_v not_o sir_n that_o i_o grant_v you_o the_o pope_n power_n to_o be_v more_o now_o then_o at_o that_o time_n it_o be_v nor_o less_o than_o they_o now_o it_o be_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o this_o power_n as_o of_o all_o other_o his_o power_n of_o bind_v &_o lose_v whereof_o this_o be_v one_o branch_n which_o do_v ever_o extend_v over_o the_o whole_a church_n over_o all_o pastor_n and_o all_o and_o every_o one_o of_o
their_o subject_n though_o he_o do_v permit_v the_o use_n thereof_o to_o other_o some_o time_n more_o sometime_o less_o according_a to_o the_o difference_n of_o time_n place_n and_o person_n but_o this_o of_o the_o extent_n of_o the_o pope_n power_n in_o this_o kind_n be_v not_o a_o matter_n for_o this_o place_n but_o it_o pertain_v to_o that_o disputation_n of_o the_o pope_n authority_n in_o general_n it_o be_v enough_o here_o if_o we_o prove_v the_o same_o power_n and_o use_v of_o give_v indulgence_n now_o as_o be_v in_o most_o ancient_a time_n as_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n declare_v and_o you_o yourself_o confess_v in_o as_o much_o as_o you_o grant_v that_o indulgence_n and_o pardon_n be_v grant_v by_o the_o bishop_n then_o which_o we_o prove_v to_o be_v the_o same_o now_o for_o neither_o do_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n stand_v say_v who_o have_v more_o or_o who_o have_v less_o of_o that_o power_n for_o that_o be_v needless_a the_o question_n be_v with_o haeretique_n who_o deny_v the_o power_n whole_o to_o be_v in_o god_n church_n 5._o the_o difference_n then_o between_o our_o indulgence_n and_o that_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n be_v not_o in_o this_o that_o be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o grant_v it_o wherein_o they_o you_o may_v say_v as_o you_o seem_v indeed_o to_o say_v that_o it_o consist_v in_o this_o that_o we_o be_v by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o saint_n which_o we_o term_v the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o their_o be_v a_o free_a relaxation_n without_o any_o such_o regard_n to_o this_o treasure_n but_o the_o difference_n can_v also_o be_v in_o this_o for_o the_o bishop_n power_n whereby_o he_o do_v pardon_v then_o be_v ground_v in_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n for_o what_o he_o do_v he_o do_v in_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n as_o s._n paul_n say_v of_o himself_o in_o forgive_a the_o corinthian_a neither_o do_v he_o forgive_v the_o guilt_n of_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n whole_o gratis_o or_o free_o without_o any_o manner_n of_o satisfaction_n to_o the_o justice_n of_o almighty_a god_n in_o as_o much_o at_o lest_o as_o these_o penance_n be_v impose_v for_o satisfaction_n for_o the_o fault_n in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n alsoe_o this_o i_o say_v the_o bishop_n neither_o do_v nor_o can_v do_v for_o christ_n himself_o do_v not_o forgive_v sin_n so_o but_o by_o shed_v of_o his_o blood_n for_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v in_o lege_fw-la sine_fw-la sanguine_fw-la non_fw-la fit_a remissio_fw-la in_o the_o law_n there_o be_v no_o forgiveness_n without_o blood_n 9.22_o heb._n 9.22_o whereby_o the_o holy_a apostle_n prove_v that_o without_o the_o shed_n of_o christ_n blood_n there_o be_v no_o remission_n of_o sin_n and_o all_o forgiveness_n of_o sin_n as_o well_o for_o the_o guilt_n as_o punishment_n be_v dependent_a thereof_o wherefore_o what_o the_o bishop_n do_v forgive_v in_o this_o manner_n they_o do_v forgive_v by_o application_n of_o christ_n his_o merit_n now_o these_o merit_n be_v not_o new_a but_o the_o former_a merit_n of_o his_o life_n and_o passion_n for_o christ_n do_v consummate_v all_o by_o one_o entire_a oblation_n of_o himself_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v 10.14_o heb._n 10.14_o if_o then_o it_o be_v by_o virtue_n of_o those_o merit_n then_o must_v they_o needs_o lie_v in_o store_n ready_a to_o be_v apply_v to_o man_n as_o they_o do_v dispose_v themselves_o to_o receive_v the_o fruit_n of_o they_o and_o the_o pastor_n please_v to_o dispense_v they_o and_o why_o then_o may_v not_o christ_n merit_n lie_v thus_o in_o store_n for_o the_o need_n of_o all_o man_n be_v compare_v to_o a_o common_a treasure_n and_o be_v call_v by_o that_o name_n so_o far_o forth_o then_o as_o those_o pardon_n be_v ground_v in_o christ_n merit_n or_o grant_v by_o application_n of_o they_o to_o the_o penitent_a there_o be_v no_o difference_n between_o they_o and_o we_o 6._o now_o for_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n you_o seem_v to_o say_v that_o they_o have_v no_o part_n in_o those_o indulgence_n that_o be_v those_o indulgence_n be_v not_o give_v by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n but_o therein_o you_o be_v also_o mistake_v sir_n humphrey_n for_o even_o in_o that_o place_n of_o saint_n paul_n wherein_o you_o allow_v he_o to_o speak_v of_o indulce_n he_o say_v he_o do_v forgive_v the_o corithian_a not_o only_o in_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n but_o for_o their_o sake_n also_o which_o import_v the_o prayer_n and_o desert_n of_o saint_n to_o have_v some_o place_n in_o the_o bestow_n of_o that_o indulgence_n and_o so_o likewise_o it_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n as_o you_o can_v but_o know_v for_o martyr_n that_o have_v make_v a_o good_a confession_n of_o their_o faith_n and_o endure_v torment_n for_o the_o same_o to_o make_v intercession_n to_o the_o bishop_n for_o release_n part_n of_o the_o punishment_n dew_n to_o other_o who_o out_o of_o weakness_n fail_v therein_o and_o what_o be_v this_o but_o by_o apply_v the_o superaboundant_a merit_n of_o the_o one_o to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o the_o other_o and_o that_o this_o be_v not_o by_o way_n of_o impetration_n or_o favour_n only_o at_o the_o bishop_n hand_n but_o by_o application_n of_o the_o very_a martyr_n merit_n appear_v by_o tertullian_n 12._o tertull._n lib._n de_fw-la put_fw-mi cap._n 12._o who_o be_v become_v now_o a_o haeretique_n do_v reprehend_v that_o custom_n say_v that_o a_o martyr_n merit_n be_v little_a enough_o for_o himself_o without_o have_v any_o surplusage_n to_o help_v other_o withal_o wherein_o yet_o he_o do_v not_o seem_v to_o deny_v this_o application_n if_o man_n have_v to_o spare_v of_o their_o own_o satisfaction_n as_o no_o question_n many_o and_o almost_o all_o great_a saint_n have_v for_o though_o they_o may_v continual_o as_o long_o as_o they_o be_v in_o this_o world_n increase_v in_o grace_n and_o merit_n for_o so_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o essential_a merit_n without_o have_v to_o spare_v but_o rather_o still_o need_v which_o kind_n of_o merit_n they_o can_v part_v with_o to_o other_o yet_o for_o that_o other_o fruit_n of_o their_o work_n and_o suffering_n which_o pertain_v to_o satisfaction_n and_o temporal_a punishment_n dew_n for_o their_o own_o sin_n they_o may_v have_v sufficient_a for_o themselves_o &_o to_o spare_v also_o to_o help_v other_o for_o example_n a_o man_n fall_v into_o some_o one_o sin_n for_o which_o he_o come_v to_o be_v so_o sorry_a after_o that_o he_o betake_v himself_o to_o a_o state_n of_o penance_n during_o his_o whole_a life_n lead_v the_o same_o in_o great_a austerity_n of_o fast_v watch_v pray_v and_o in_o the_o exercise_n of_o all_o virtue_n and_o it_o may_v be_v have_v first_o obtain_v pardon_n of_o the_o fault_n itself_o by_o hearty_a contrition_n and_o humble_a confession_n by_o those_o good_a work_n obtain_v also_o remission_n of_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n within_o the_o space_n of_o 1._o 2._o 3._o 7._o 10._o or_o 12._o year_n for_o example_n sake_n he_o then_o lead_v the_o same_o life_n still_o 20._o 30._o 40._o 50._o 60._o year_n more_o as_o many_o have_v do_v what_o shall_v become_v of_o all_o that_o satisfaction_n which_o be_v over_o and_o above_o for_o that_o sin_n or_o sin_n which_o he_o commit_v before_o it_o do_v not_o perish_v nor_o pass_v without_o fruit_n though_o not_o of_o he_o yet_o of_o other_o at_o least_o who_o be_v member_n of_o the_o same_o mystical_a body_n with_o he_o so_o than_o some_o man_n have_v merit_n superaboundant_a to_o this_o effect_n and_o these_o merit_n may_v be_v communicate_v to_o other_o member_n of_o the_o same_o body_n and_o these_o merit_n be_v not_o lose_v nor_o forget_v by_o almighty_a god_n though_o they_o be_v not_o apply_v present_o why_o may_v not_o they_o then_o be_v say_v to_o lie_v in_o deposito_fw-la as_o money_n in_o a_o treasury_n 7._o in_o this_o therefore_o be_v not_o the_o difference_n between_o our_o indulgence_n and_o those_o which_o you_o allow_v wherein_o then_o i_o see_v not_o unless_o it_o be_v that_o we_o extend_v our_o indulgence_n to_o the_o dead_a as_o indeed_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v it_o in_o part_n to_o this_o i_o may_v answer_v first_o that_o it_o be_v another_o controversy_n or_o another_o point_n at_o least_o of_o the_o same_o controversy_n for_o indulgence_n be_v apply_v in_o a_o different_a manner_n to_o the_o live_n and_o the_o dead_a and_o that_o definition_n which_o you_o give_v that_o indulgence_n be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n do_v not_o pertain_v to_o the_o dead_a for_o absolution_n be_v a_o juridical_a act_n to_o be_v perform_v by_o a_o superior_a and_o judge_v towards_o a_o inferior_a and_o a_o subject_n be_v under_o his_o power_n which_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n be_v
all_o the_o world_n believe_v beside_o himself_o out_o of_o which_o you_o will_v have_v your_o reader_n gather_v that_o in_o that_o father_n judgement_n miracle_n have_v cease_v and_o that_o whatsoever_o catholic_n speak_v now_o of_o miracle_n it_o but_o feign_a be_v not_o this_o your_o meaning_n sir_n humphrey_n sure_o it_o be_v for_o what_o else_o it_o shall_v be_v i_o can_v imagine_v now_o to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v far_o from_o saint_n augustine_n meaning_n as_o shall_v appear_v for_o he_o in_o this_o place_n reason_v with_o the_o pagan_a who_o do_v not_o believe_v the_o miracle_n wrought_v by_o the_o first_o preacher_n of_o our_o faith_n because_o he_o see_v not_o the_o like_a in_o his_o time_n to_o which_o saint_n augustine_n answer_v that_o they_o be_v not_o so_o needful_a then_o as_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o yet_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v such_o wrought_v then_o for_o how_o else_o say_v he_o come_v the_o world_n to_o believe_v and_o now_o the_o world_n believe_v there_o need_v no_o miracle_n to_o make_v a_o man_n believe_v the_o conversion_n of_o the_o world_n be_v argument_n enough_o and_o that_o therefore_o he_o be_v to_o be_v wonder_v at_o that_o will_v stand_v upon_o miracle_n for_o his_o belief_n and_o this_o be_v for_o us._n for_o so_o say_v we_o a_o man_n that_o shall_v stand_v upon_o miracle_n to_o become_v a_o catholic_a the_o whole_a world_n of_o this_o age_n and_o for_o so_o many_o forego_v age_n believe_v and_o profess_v that_o faith_n be_v to_o be_v wonder_v at_o himself_o and_o we_o say_v again_o that_o he_o be_v as_o much_o to_o be_v wonder_v at_o that_o shall_v believe_v a_o new_a haereticall_a religion_n not_o know_v before_o to_o the_o world_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o common_a belief_n thereof_o such_o as_o luther_n or_o caluin_n be_v without_o miracle_n for_o all_o true_a religion_n must_v have_v some_o testimony_n of_o miracle_n from_o god_n in_o the_o beginning_n till_o man_n believe_v but_o man_n believe_v they_o be_v not_o so_o necessary_a so_o as_o thus_o much_o as_o you_o have_v set_v down_o of_o saint_n augustine_n his_o discourse_n be_v not_o against_o we_o but_o rather_o against_o yourself_o but_o now_o see_v you_o will_v needs_o speak_v against_o miracle_n and_o that_o out_o of_o saint_n augustine_n let_v we_o see_v what_o else_o there_o be_v in_o this_o place_n against_o or_o for_o miracle_n and_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o very_a title_n of_o that_o chapter_n out_o of_o the_o very_a beginning_n whereof_o you_o take_v your_o place_n it_o be_v this_o 8._o aug._n the_o civet_n lib._n 22._o cap._n 8._o de_fw-fr miraculis_fw-la quae_fw-la ut_fw-la mundus_fw-la in_o christum_fw-la crederet_fw-la facta_fw-la sunt_fw-la &_o fieri_fw-la mundo_fw-la credente_fw-la non_fw-la desinunt_fw-la of_o the_o miracle_n which_o be_v wrought_v that_o the_o world_n may_v believe_v in_o christ_n and_o do_v not_o cease_v to_o be_v wrought_v now_o that_o the_o world_n do_v believe_v look_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v not_o here_o comfort_n for_o you_o to_o begin_v withal_o miracle_n wrought_v not_o only_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o afterward_o in_o s._n aug._n his_o time_n well_o in_o the_o chapter_n itself_o whereas_o he_o say_v that_o he_o that_o will_v not_o believe_v without_o miracle_n will_v be_v a_o wonder_n himself_o he_o expound_v his_o meaning_n not_o to_o be_v so_o as_o if_o miracle_n be_v cease_v as_o our_o haeretique_n and_o you_o for_o one_o sir_n humphrey_n say_v no_o say_v he_o etiam_fw-la nunc_fw-la fiunt_fw-la miracula_fw-la in_o eius_fw-la nomine_fw-la etc._n etc._n for_o even_o now_o miracle_n be_v wrought_v in_o his_o name_n either_o by_o the_o sacrament_n or_o by_o prayer_n or_o memory_n of_o martyr_n and_o then_o he_o spend_v that_o whole_a and_o long_a chapter_n in_o recount_v of_o such_o miracle_n as_o happen_v then_o in_o his_o time_n and_o even_o in_o his_o own_o sight_n or_o hard_a by_o and_o so_o also_o in_o another_o place_n whereas_o he_o have_v make_v himself_o a_o objection_n why_o such_o miracle_n as_o our_o saviour_n wrought_v be_v not_o then_o wrought_v and_o answer_v because_o they_o will_v not_o move_v unless_o they_o be_v strange_a 14._o retract_v lib._n 1._o cap._n 14._o nor_o will_v be_v strange_a if_o they_o be_v ordinary_a he_o expound_v himself_o thus_o haec_fw-la dixi_fw-la quia_fw-la non_fw-la tanta_fw-la nec_fw-la omne_fw-la modo_fw-la non_fw-la quia_fw-la nulla_fw-la fiunt_fw-la etiam_fw-la modo_fw-la this_o i_o say_v because_o not_o so_o great_a nor_o all_o now_o not_o because_o none_o be_v wrought_v even_o now_o by_o which_o it_o be_v most_o clear_a that_o you_o have_v not_o s._n aug._n with_o you_o against_o miracle_n but_o as_o plain_a as_o may_v be_v against_o you_o so_o as_o i_o do_v not_o see_v what_o you_o can_v say_v for_o yourself_o but_o by_o lay_v the_o blame_n upon_o the_o spirit_n i_o speak_v of_o before_o who_o ought_v you_o a_o shame_n and_o therefore_o put_v you_o upon_o write_v such_o matter_n as_o can_v be_v otherwise_o maintain_v then_o by_o such_o mean_n as_o you_o be_v here_o fain_o to_o use_v of_o the_o 16._o sect._n entitle_v our_o adversary_n objection_n draw_v from_o the_o testimony_n of_o pretend_a martyr_n of_o their_o religion_n answer_v chapter_n xvi_o 1._o the_o bless_a martyr_n f._n edmund_n campian_n in_o his_o ten_o reason_n bring_v all_o sort_n of_o witness_n for_o proof_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n begin_v with_o martyr_n those_o particular_o who_o be_v pastor_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n suffer_v martyrdom_n successive_o one_o after_o the_o other_o to_o the_o number_n of_o 33._o these_o say_v campian_n be_v we_o and_o name_v some_o of_o they_o as_o telesphorus_n victor_n sixtus_n cornelius_n with_o the_o particular_a point_n which_o they_o hold_v conformable_o with_o we_o against_o protestant_n 16._o chap._n 16._o as_o the_o fast_o of_o lent_n the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n power_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o the_o like_o this_o our_o knight_n take_v hold_v of_o confess_v martyrdom_n to_o carry_v some_o show_n of_o honour_n in_o our_o church_n but_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v we_o because_o they_o neither_o suffer_v for_o our_o faith_n nor_o profess_v it_o while_o they_o live_v which_o he_o prove_v by_o ask_v whether_o ever_o any_o martyr_n die_v upon_o confidence_n of_o his_o own_o merit_n and_o whether_o any_o romanist_n dare_v die_v in_o justification_n of_o his_o own_o righteousness_n and_o whether_o any_o of_o those_o 33._o die_v and_o be_v canonize_v for_o adoration_n give_v to_o image_n and_o many_o more_o such_o wise_a demand_n to_o who_o i_o answer_v that_o those_o martyr_n suffer_v death_n not_o for_o the_o point_n now_o in_o controversy_n with_o haeretique_n but_o for_o the_o profession_n of_o christianity_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o enemy_n of_o christ_n but_o that_o not_o only_o such_o as_o die_v for_o christ_n himself_o by_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o pagan_n be_v martyr_n but_o such_o as_o die_v for_o his_o church_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o haeretique_n or_o for_o any_o one_o particular_a point_n even_o the_o lest_o of_o they_o that_o be_v define_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n for_o which_o every_o catholic_a be_v bind_v rather_o to_o die_v then_o deny_v any_o of_o they_o now_o that_o these_o martyr_n be_v we_o notwithstanding_o they_o die_v not_o for_o any_o of_o these_o point_n it_o be_v plain_a because_o they_o profess_v the_o same_o catholic_a faith_n which_o we_o do_v which_o we_o also_o prove_v by_o the_o faith_n of_o their_o successor_n vrbanus_n 8._o who_o as_o he_o hold_v their_o seat_n so_o also_o their_o faith_n council_n 〈◊〉_d 1._o council_n for_o peter_n chair_n and_o faith_n go_v together_o as_o the_o very_a haeretique_n pelagius_n confess_v to_o lozimus_n pope_n say_v to_o he_o qui_fw-fr petri_n fidem_fw-la &_o sedem_fw-la tenes_fw-fr not_o to_o stand_v here_o upon_o the_o most_o effectual_a and_o infallible_a prayer_n of_o our_o saviour_n himself_n oravi_fw-la pro_fw-la te_fw-la petre_n ut_fw-la non_fw-la deficiat_fw-la fides_fw-la tua_fw-la which_o proof_n must_v stand_v firm_a till_o sir_n humphrey_n can_v tell_v we_o what_o pope_n begin_v to_o vary_v from_o his_o praedecessor_n 2._o now_o for_o the_o particular_a point_n it_o be_v plain_a even_o by_o those_o which_o f._n campian_n cit_v that_o they_o be_v we_o but_o much_o more_o by_o their_o own_o decretal_a epistle_n which_o be_v all_o so_o full_a of_o those_o thing_n that_o the_o haeretique_n have_v no_o other_o shift_n but_o to_o deny_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o same_o epistle_n therefore_o they_o be_v idle_a demand_n which_o the_o knight_n make_v whether_o any_o have_v die_v upon_o confidence_n of_o his_o own_o merit_n or_o whether_o any_o catholic_a dare_v die_v for_o justification_n of_o his_o righteousness_n for_o these_o be_v no_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o of_o presumption_n but_o for_o
gerson_n treatise_n in_o the_o margin_n which_o as_o he_o there_o acknowledge_v show_v the_o cause_n i_o there_o reprehend_v he_o for_o it_o as_o may_v be_v see_v here_o chap._n 9_o §_o 5._o n._n 7._o now_o as_o it_o seem_v reflect_v upon_o his_o own_o absurdness_n therein_o in_o his_o 4._o edition_n he_o do_v not_o say_v that_o gerson_n show_v the_o cause_n as_o he_o say_v before_o but_o declare_v they_o himself_o out_o of_o gerson_n say_v they_o be_v these_o to_o wit_n the_o length_n of_o lay_v man_n beard_n the_o loathsomeness_n to_o drink_v after_o other_o the_o costlinesse_n and_o difficulty_n of_o get_v wine_n the_o frost_n in_o winter_n the_o fly_v in_o summer_n the_o burden_n of_o bear_v the_o danger_n of_o spill_v and_o the_o people_n unworthines_n to_o equal_v the_o priest_n in_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n thus_o far_o be_v gerson_n word_n as_o he_o cit_v they_o in_o a_o different_a letter_n continue_v the_o discourse_n himself_o in_o this_o manner_n and_o thus_o for_o long_a beard_n and_o unsweet_a breath_n for_o a_o little_a pain_n and_o no_o great_a charge_n for_o frost_n in_o winter_n and_o fly_v in_o summer_n i_o say_v for_o these_o and_o the_o like_a catholic_a consideration_n pretend_v in_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n abolish_v christ_n institution_n and_o lay_v anathema_n upon_o all_o that_o at_o this_o day_n maintain_v the_o contrary_n so_o sir_n humphrey_n prove_v himself_o as_o impertinent_a in_o set_v down_o gerson_n discourse_n lame_o and_o ridiculous_o as_o he_o do_v before_o in_o not_o set_v it_o down_o at_o all_o for_o better_a declaration_n whereof_o i_o shall_v here_o put_v down_o gerson_n word_n as_o they_o lie_v spe_fw-la gers_n tract_n de_fw-fr come_v laico_fw-la sub_fw-la utraque_fw-la spe_fw-la which_o be_v these_o vnde_fw-la dicunt_fw-la plurimi_fw-la theologi_fw-la etc._n etc._n wherefore_o very_o many_o divine_v say_v that_o the_o custom_n of_o not_o communicate_v the_o laity_n under_o both_o kind_n especial_o since_o the_o multiplication_n of_o the_o faithful_a have_v be_v lawful_o and_o reasonable_o introduce_v &_o this_o for_o the_o avoidind_n of_o manifold_a danger_n of_o irreverence_n and_o scandal_n in_o the_o receive_n of_o this_o most_o bless_a sacrament_n the_o first_o danger_n be_v in_o spill_v the_o second_o in_o carriage_n from_o place_n to_o place_n the_o three_o in_o the_o fowl_a of_o the_o vessel_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v hallow_v &_o not_o handle_v or_o touch_v ordinary_o by_o lay-people_n and_o much_o less_o ought_v the_o consecrate_a wine_n to_o be_v sell_v in_o shop_n as_o it_o be_v say_v to_o be_v with_o such_o man_n that_o be_v the_o bohemian_o whoe_o stand_v for_o the_o use_n of_o the_o chalice_n the_o four_o be_v in_o the_o long_a beard_n of_o lay-man_n the_o five_o in_o the_o keep_n thereof_o for_o the_o sick_a because_o in_o the_o vessel_n it_o may_v become_v vinager_n and_o so_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n will_v cease_v to_o be_v there_o be_v neither_o to_o be_v receive_v nor_o to_o be_v consecrate_v a_o new_a without_o mass_n and_o so_o it_o may_v come_v to_o pass_v that_o pure_a vinager_n may_v come_v to_o be_v give_v in_o steed_n of_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n beside_o that_o in_o summer_n fly_n will_v breed_v how_o close_o soever_o the_o vessel_n shall_v be_v shut_v some_o time_n also_o it_o will_v putrify_v or_o become_v as_o it_o be_v noisome_a to_o drink_v and_o this_o reason_n be_v very_o efficacious_a as_o also_o for_o a_o other_o reason_n when_o many_o have_v drink_v before_o and_o we_o may_v ask_v in_o what_o vessel_n so_o great_a a_o quantity_n of_o wine_n shall_v be_v consecrate_v at_o easter_n for_o ten_o or_o twenty_o thousand_o person_n the_o sixth_o harm_n be_v in_o the_o costlinesse_n of_o wine_n at_o lest_o in_o many_o place_n where_o there_o be_v scarce_o wine_n find_v to_o celebrate_v withal_o &_o in_o other_o place_n where_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v have_v but_o at_o a_o dear_a rate_n beside_o there_o will_v be_v danger_n of_o congeling_n or_o turn_v to_o â—ee_n again_o there_o will_v be_v danger_n of_o credulity_n and_o this_o many_o way_n first_o that_o the_o dignity_n of_o the_o laity_n be_v as_o great_a in_o the_o receive_n of_o this_o sacrament_n as_o that_o of_o priest_n second_o that_o so_o to_o do_v be_v ever_o and_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o necessity_n &_o so_o all_o that_o have_v do_v and_o do_v think_v practice_n or_o teach_v otherwise_o have_v perish_v and_o do_v perish_v and_o general_o all_o as_o well_o clark_n doctor_n and_o prelate_n who_o have_v not_o oppose_v themselves_o against_o such_o a_o custom_n by_o word_n and_o writing_n and_o that_o they_o have_v pervert_v the_o scripture_n three_o that_o the_o virtue_n and_o force_n of_o this_o sacrament_n be_v not_o more_o principal_o in_o the_o consecration_n then_o in_o the_o receive_n four_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v not_o think_v right_o of_o the_o sacrament_n nor_o be_v herein_o to_o be_v imitate_v five_o that_o general_a counsel_n and_o particular_o this_o of_o constance_n have_v err_v in_o faith_n and_o good_a manner_n six_o it_o will_v many_o way_n be_v occasion_n of_o sedition_n and_o shisme_n in_o our_o part_n of_o christendom_n as_o experience_n show_v in_o bohemia_n hitherto_o be_v the_o word_n of_o gerson_n by_o the_o only_a read_n and_o compare_v whereof_o it_o will_v easy_o appear_v how_o bad_o sir_n humphrey_n have_v deal_v as_o well_o in_o cull_v out_o some_o few_o reason_n of_o least_o force_n as_o also_o in_o deliver_v they_o not_o in_o the_o author_n phrase_n as_o they_o lie_v but_o in_o a_o certain_a ridiculous_a fashion_n of_o his_o own_o for_o first_o he_o mention_v not_o the_o two_o main_a head_n which_o contain_v all_o the_o rest_n and_o be_v chief_o to_o be_v regard_v in_o the_o administration_n of_o sacrament_n to_o wit_n irreverence_n and_o scandal_n then_o among_o the_o danger_n of_o irreverence_n he_o leave_v that_o which_o may_v most_o easy_o happen_v and_o can_v indeed_o be_v well_o avoid_v to_o wit_n that_o with_o long_o keep_v as_o when_o it_o be_v keep_v for_o the_o sick_a the_o species_n of_o wine_n will_v turn_v into_o vinager_n that_o it_o will_v otherwise_o corrupt_v &_o become_v noisome_a which_o gerson_n seem_v to_o count_v his_o chief_a reason_n for_o he_o say_v of_o it_o that_o it_o be_v a_o very_a efficacious_a one_o sir_n humphrey_n also_o leave_v out_o that_o other_o reason_n that_o either_o the_o vessel_n wherein_o it_o be_v keep_v must_v be_v let_v to_o grow_v very_o foul_a or_o be_v touch_v and_o handle_v by_o lay_v people_n both_o which_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o reverence_n dew_n to_o this_o holy_a sacrament_n he_o leave_v out_o that_o point_n of_o scandal_n in_o sell_v of_o the_o consecrate_a wine_n to_o save_v the_o credit_n of_o his_o brother_n of_o bohemia_n who_o use_v so_o to_o do_v he_o leave_v out_o the_o manifold_a danger_n of_o scandal_n by_o mis-beleif_a to_o wit_n that_o hereby_o man_n may_v come_v to_o believe_v that_o it_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o necessity_n that_o hereby_o they_o may_v come_v to_o condemn_v all_o that_o have_v teach_v or_o practise_v the_o contrary_a or_o not_o oppose_v it_o that_o hereby_o they_o may_v come_v to_o condemn_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o condemn_v general_a counsel_n of_o error_n in_o faith_n all_o which_o the_o knight_n be_v please_v to_o pass_v over_o put_v down_o only_o those_o other_o which_o he_o think_v he_o may_v make_v better_a sport_n withal_o for_o which_o purpose_n he_o also_o alter_v gerson_n word_n for_o whereas_o he_o speak_v of_o a_o little_a pain_n &_o no_o great_a charge_n gerson_n say_v nothing_o of_o pain_n &_o for_o charge_n he_o say_v the_o quite_o contrary_a to_o wit_n that_o the_o charge_n be_v very_o great_a in_o some_o place_n and_o in_o other_o that_o there_o be_v not_o wine_n to_o be_v have_v sufficient_a for_o the_o people_n but_o only_o very_o little_a for_o the_o priest_n to_o say_v mass_n withal_o and_o for_o alter_v christ_n institution_n gerson_n say_v the_o express_a contrary_n to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v a_o error_n to_o say_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o institution_n and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o more_o necessary_a by_o divine_a institution_n but_o that_o we_o do_v not_o contemn_v it_o as_o say_v he_o doctor_n teach_v of_o confirmation_n and_o extreme_a unction_n which_o be_v say_v to_o be_v sacrament_n not_o of_o necessity_n which_o truth_n be_v suppose_v i_o see_v not_o but_o gerson_n reason_n may_v be_v good_a and_o sufficient_a to_o prove_v his_o intent_n which_o be_v to_o show_v the_o manifold_a irreverence_n and_o scandal_n which_o may_v come_v by_o the_o use_n of_o both_o kind_n for_o example_n be_v it_o not_o a_o undecent_a thing_n to_o see_v
practice_n to_o be_v more_o for_o aedification_n of_o the_o people_n nay_o do_v it_o not_o in_o the_o canon_n express_o condemn_v it_o say_n anathema_n to_o whosoever_o shall_v condemn_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o read_v some_o part_n of_o the_o canon_n soft_o or_o to_o whosoever_o shall_v say_v that_o the_o mass_n ought_v to_o be_v celebrate_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n 4._o now_o for_o the_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o you_o bring_v to_o wit_n that_o we_o must_v show_v forth_o the_o lord_n death_n till_o his_o come_v which_o you_o say_v be_v not_o intend_v to_o the_o wall_n as_o we_o do_v it_o show_v sufficient_o how_o well_o you_o understand_v scripture_n and_o consequent_o how_o well_o the_o common_a people_n between_o who_o and_o yourself_o you_o i_o dare_v say_v think_v there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o difference_n will_v understand_v they_o when_o you_o be_v even_o a_o writer_n so_o little_o understand_v they_o for_o that_o place_n of_o announce_v our_o lord_n death_n be_v not_o understand_v by_o word_n as_o you_o understand_v it_o but_o by_o deed_n as_o it_o be_v most_o plain_a by_o the_o circumstance_n wherein_o they_o be_v speak_v to_o wit_n by_o consecrate_v and_o change_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o our_o lord_n as_o we_o do_v daily_o in_o the_o mass_n in_o memory_n of_o our_o saviour_n passion_n for_o so_o s._n paul_n have_v speak_v of_o the_o institution_n and_o manner_n to_o be_v observe_v in_o the_o consecration_n express_o say_v as_o often_o as_o you_o shall_v do_v this_o you_o shall_v announce_v the_o death_n of_o our_o lord_n the_o do_v therefore_o be_v the_o announce_v not_o the_o save_v beside_o these_o word_n at_o least_o in_o the_o manner_n of_o speak_v do_v not_o import_v any_o command_n for_o you_o shall_v find_v the_o word_n annuntiabitis_fw-la be_v the_o indicative_a mood_n and_o future_a tense_n if_o you_o look_v well_o into_o your_o accidence_n sir_n humphrey_n and_o withal_o it_o be_v somewhat_o conditional_a to_o wit_n that_o as_o often_o as_o we_o shall_v do_v that_o we_o shall_v announce_v the_o death_n of_o our_o lord_n beside_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o never_o hear_v before_o that_o it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o speak_v latin_a and_o to_o speak_v to_o the_o wall_n if_o a_o man_n shall_v speak_v a_o word_n of_o latin_a to_o you_o be_v that_o to_o speak_v to_o a_o wall_n you_o see_v then_o you_o do_v not_o mark_v what_o you_o say_v 5._o but_o now_o you_o have_v speak_v so_o well_o of_o yourself_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o can_v say_v out_o of_o other_o man_n and_o first_o for_o haymo_n who_o you_o cite_v for_o your_o purpose_n ask_v this_o unanswearable_a question_n as_o you_o call_v it_o if_o a_o man_n that_o know_v only_o his_o mother_n tongue_n stand_v by_o or_o make_v a_o sermon_n or_o give_v a_o blessing_n how_o shall_v he_o say_v amen_o since_o he_o do_v not_o know_v what_o thou_o say_v so_o you_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v it_o be_v true_a haymo_n have_v a_o question_n to_o this_o purpose_n but_o not_o so_o much_o to_o you_o if_o you_o mark_v he_o well_o nor_o so_o unanswearable_a if_o you_o take_v he_o altogether_o with_o what_o he_o say_v before_o and_o after_o your_o question_n for_o so_o you_o shall_v find_v he_o do_v not_o require_v that_o all_o that_o be_v by_o shall_v understand_v but_o that_o he_o that_o supply_v the_o place_n of_o the_o idiot_n or_o lay_v man_n in_o answer_v for_o the_o people_n shall_v understand_v for_o before_o that_o question_n of_o you_o he_o make_v this_o other_o first_o quis_fw-la supplebit_fw-la vel_fw-la quis_fw-la adimplebit_fw-la locum_fw-la illius_fw-la qui_fw-la te_fw-la audit_n &_o non_fw-la intelligit_fw-la verba_fw-la tua_fw-la who_o shall_v supply_v or_o who_o shall_v fulfil_v the_o place_n of_o he_o that_o hear_v thou_o and_o do_v not_o understand_v thy_o word_n which_o show_v that_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o the_o idiot_n or_o ordinary_a bystander_n but_o of_o one_o that_o be_v to_o supply_v his_o place_n or_o make_v answer_n for_o he_o which_o appear_v yet_o more_o by_o that_o which_o follow_v immediate_o after_o your_o question_n thus_o si_fw-mi non_fw-la aderit_fw-la alius_fw-la pro_fw-la illo_fw-la sciens_fw-la quid_fw-la tu_fw-la dicas_fw-la qui_fw-la respondeat_fw-la amen_o 1._o verum_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la tu_fw-la dixisti_fw-la vel_fw-la fiat_fw-la ita_fw-la if_o there_o shall_v be_v none_o other_o for_o he_o that_o be_v in_o place_n of_o the_o ignorant_a man_n who_o know_v what_o thou_o say_v may_v answer_n amen_o that_o be_v to_o say_v it_o be_v true_a which_o thou_o have_v say_v or_o be_v it_o so_o do_v which_o plain_o show_v that_o in_o haymo_n his_o judgement_n it_o be_v sufficient_a if_o there_o be_v one_o understander_n to_o answer_n for_o the_o rest_n or_o for_o he_o that_o do_v not_o understand_v nay_o he_o do_v not_o seem_v to_o require_v so_o much_o as_o that_o this_o answearer_n shall_v understand_v all_o so_o perfect_o but_o only_o so_o far_o as_o to_o be_v able_a to_o answer_n amen_n for_o this_o be_v the_o inconvenience_n which_o he_o make_v to_o follow_v thereupon_o if_o the_o answearer_n do_v not_o understand_v the_o language_n that_o he_o do_v not_o know_v where_o the_o prayer_n end_v for_o he_o to_o answer_n nescit_fw-la quip_n say_v he_o ubi_fw-la sermonis_fw-la clausula_fw-la firmatur_fw-la for_o he_o know_v not_o where_o the_o conclusion_n of_o the_o speech_n be_v end_v for_o which_o true_o there_o do_v not_o need_v any_o such_o great_a understanding_n of_o latin_a so_o that_o though_o haymo_n think_v that_o the_o apostle_n speak_v in_o that_o place_n of_o the_o public_a prayer_n of_o the_o church_n offer_v by_o the_o priest_n as_o some_o few_o other_o doctor_n do_v though_o not_o so_o right_o nor_o so_o conformable_o to_o the_o true_a intent_n and_o drift_n of_o the_o apostle_n yet_o he_o require_v no_o more_o but_o that_o there_o be_v one_o to_o answer_n amen_n which_o sure_o 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