scripture_n which_o they_o stand_v upon_o he_o answer_v thus_o et_fw-la etiam_fw-la si_fw-la sacrae_fw-la scripturae_fw-la authoritas_fw-la non_fw-la subesset_fw-la lucifer_n dialog_n 2._o con_v lucifer_n totius_fw-la orbis_fw-la in_o hanc_fw-la partem_fw-la consensus_fw-la instar_fw-la praecepti_fw-la obtineret_fw-la and_o although_o the_o authority_n of_o holy_a scripture_n be_v want_v the_o consent_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n on_o this_o side_n shall_v have_v the_o force_n of_o a_o precept_n and_o so_o there_o be_v a_o end_n of_o this_o 5._o §_o of_o prayer_n and_o service_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n §._o 6._o 1._o in_o this_o §_o the_o knight_n speak_v against_o the_o practice_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n in_o two_o thing_n one_o be_v for_o use_v the_o public_a service_n in_o a_o tongue_n not_o know_v to_o the_o vulgar_a people_n another_o for_o say_v some_o part_n of_o the_o mass_n with_o a_o loud_a voice_n so_o as_o the_o people_n can_v hear_v the_o practice_n of_o which_o two_o thing_n though_o the_o knight_n confound_v they_o into_o one_o be_v several_o and_o distinct_o approve_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n &_o anathema_n pronounce_v against_o whosoever_o shall_v condemn_v either_o of_o they_o against_o which_o notwithstanding_o he_o begin_v with_o the_o council'_v own_o authority_n think_v also_o even_o by_o it_o to_o make_v good_a the_o contrary_a practice_n of_o his_o church_n for_o say_v he_o the_o council_n in_o say_v that_o the_o mass_n do_v contain_v great_a instruction_n of_o the_o faithful_a people_n or_o as_o he_o translate_v the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n in_o the_o begin_n of_o this_o §_o great_a instruction_n for_o the_o common_a people_n and_o that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v interpret_v unto_o they_o do_v consequent_o affirm_v that_o the_o service_n and_o prayer_n in_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n be_v better_a for_o the_o aedification_n of_o the_o church_n and_o this_o he_o confirm_v with_o a_o argument_n of_o his_o own_o thus_o and_o without_o doubt_n say_v he_o the_o apostle_n be_v command_v to_o show_v forth_o the_o lord_n death_n till_o his_o come_n it_o be_v not_o intend_v to_o show_v it_o to_o the_o wall_n or_o in_o a_o silent_a &_o unknown_a voice_n as_o it_o be_v now_o use_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o to_o pronounce_v it_o open_o to_o be_v hear_v and_o understand_v of_o the_o hearer_n so_o far_o our_o knight_n now_o to_o reckon_v with_o he_o 2._o because_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n say_v that_o the_o mass_n contain_v great_a instruction_n of_o the_o people_n and_o that_o for_o that_o end_n it_o be_v to_o be_v interpret_v unto_o they_o he_o say_v it_o consequent_o affirm_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n to_o be_v better_o for_o aedification_n of_o the_o church_n do_v it_o so_o sir_n humphrey_n by_o what_o logic_n do_v this_o consequence_n follow_v or_o by_o what_o figure_n of_o rhetoric_n do_v you_o take_v one_o thing_n for_o another_o the_o council_n say_v that_o though_o the_o mass_n contain_v great_a instruction_n yet_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n you_o tell_v we_o the_o council_n by_o consequence_n do_v affirm_v it_o to_o follow_v the_o council_n think_v it_o better_a to_o retain_v the_o general_a and_o long_o continue_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o not_o use_v the_o vulgar_a tongue_n in_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n but_o for_o instruction_n of_o the_o people_n to_o interpret_v something_o of_o what_o be_v read_v you_o say_v it_o approve_v the_o contrary_a custom_n of_o your_o church_n if_o it_o have_v so_o have_v it_o not_o be_v a_o easy_a matter_n to_o have_v appoint_v it_o to_o be_v read_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n but_o the_o council_n know_v well_o that_o course_n be_v not_o so_o fit_a neither_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o public_a good_a of_o the_o church_n nor_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o private_a good_a of_o the_o faithful_a people_n for_o many_o reason_n 3._o first_o for_o the_o general_a practice_n and_o custom_n which_o have_v be_v observe_v in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n of_o have_v the_o mass_n and_o public_a office_n in_o latin_a all_n over_o the_o latin_a or_o western_a church_n both_o in_o italy_n spain_n france_n germany_n england_n africa_n &_o all_o other_o place_n and_o so_o likewise_o in_o greek_a in_o the_o grecian_a or_o eastern_a church_n though_o it_o be_v as_o large_a in_o extent_n &_o have_v as_o much_o variety_n of_o vulgar_a language_n in_o it_o as_o the_o latin_a church_n have_v which_o custom_n be_v not_o to_o be_v forsake_v especial_o for_o haeretique_n &_o out_o of_o that_o their_o false_a persuasion_n that_o it_o be_v no_o good_a or_o lawful_a practice_n second_o for_o the_o uniformity_n which_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v use_v in_o such_o thing_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v excellent_o declare_v &_o also_o much_o maintain_v by_o this_o unity_n of_o language_n in_o the_o church-office_n for_o as_o language_n be_v a_o thing_n most_o necessary_a for_o commerce_n among_o man_n in_o civil_a matter_n so_o also_o in_o ecclesiastical_a and_o without_o this_o use_n of_o latin_a in_o this_o manner_n there_o can_v not_o be_v that_o communication_n between_o man_n of_o learning_n neither_o will_v man_n of_o one_o country_n be_v the_o better_a for_o the_o writing_n of_o other_o there_o will_v be_v little_a meeting_n of_o man_n of_o several_a nation_n in_o counsel_n little_a study_n of_o counsel_n of_o father_n &_o other_o who_o have_v all_o write_v in_o latin_a or_o some_o learned_a language_n whereas_o the_o use_n of_o the_o latin_a tongue_n in_o the_o church_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o all_o the_o contrary_a effect_n as_o we_o see_v by_o experience_n three_o the_o use_n of_o vulgar_a tongue_n in_o the_o mass_n and_o church-office_n will_v cause_v not_o only_o great_a confusion_n but_o breed_v a_o infinite_a number_n of_o error_n by_o so_o many_o several_a translation_n not_o only_o in_o several_a country_n but_o by_o several_a translation_n in_o every_o country_n of_o any_o small_a extent_n even_o in_o the_o same_o place_n upon_o a_o little_a change_n of_o time_n for_o as_o we_o see_v in_o every_o age_n the_o vulgar_a language_n recive_v a_o great_a alternation_n of_o which_o translation_n the_o church_n will_v not_o be_v able_a any_o way_n to_o judge_v scripture_n be_v the_o hard_a thing_n to_o translate_v of_o all_o other_o &_o which_o therefore_o for_o the_o well_o translate_n thereof_o require_v the_o special_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o no_o private_a man_n can_v promise_v himself_o last_o the_o use_n of_o a_o vulgar_a language_n in_o such_o thing_n will_v breed_v a_o great_a contempt_n of_o sacred_a thing_n with_o profane_v and_o irreligiosity_n beside_o the_o danger_n of_o haeresy_n which_o come_v no_o way_n soon_o than_o by_o misunderstanding_n of_o holy_a scripture_n neither_o be_v any_o more_o apt_a to_o mis-understand_v it_o than_o the_o simple_a sort_n of_o people_n if_o they_o once_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o understand_v these_o reason_n then_o among_o other_o but_o most_o of_o all_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n draw_v even_o from_o the_o apostle_n by_o perpetual_a succession_n and_o practice_n may_v persuade_v the_o council_n to_o think_v that_o though_o some_o benefitt_a might_n come_v to_o some_o few_o particular_a man_n by_o understanding_n what_o be_v write_v yet_o it_o be_v absolute_o better_a to_o retain_v the_o same_o custom_n still_o and_o even_o to_o remedy_v that_o inconvenience_n another_o way_n to_o wit_n by_o explain_v something_o of_o what_o be_v read_v in_o the_o mass_n which_o the_o council_n declare_v by_o a_o similitude_n very_o proper_a for_o the_o purpose_n to_o wit_n by_o break_v of_o bread_n to_o little_a one_o fort_n it_o be_v even_o as_o necessary_a for_o ordinary_a people_n to_o have_v the_o scripture_n so_o declare_v as_o for_o child_n to_o have_v their_o bread_n break_v and_o as_o unfit_a to_o give_v such_o man_n the_o scripture_n itself_o whole_a to_o read_v or_o to_o read_v it_o so_o unto_o they_o as_o to_o give_v a_o little_a child_n a_o whole_a great_a loaf_n neither_o if_o a_o man_n mark_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n word_n well_o do_v it_o say_v that_o the_o mass_n do_v contain_v instruction_n in_o that_o sense_n as_o if_o the_o only_a read_n of_o thing_n in_o the_o vulgar_a language_n will_v be_v a_o instruction_n but_o only_o that_o it_o contain_v great_a instruction_n that_o be_v many_o thing_n which_o may_v be_v good_a for_o the_o people_n to_o learn_v be_v explicate_v which_o a_o man_n may_v true_o say_v though_o even_o when_o it_o be_v in_o the_o vulgar_a language_n it_o can_v be_v understand_v without_o help_n of_o a_o expositor_n how_o then_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v the_o council_n acknowledge_v your_o
you_o see_v his_o meaning_n to_o be_v absolute_o to_o condemn_v idol-worship_n and_o approve_v image-worship_n neither_o do_v your_o note_n of_o the_o greek_a word_n in_o the_o margin_n in_o proof_n that_o s._n peter_n speak_v of_o idol-worship_n avail_v you_o for_o val._n speak_v only_o of_o the_o latin_a word_n which_o be_v more_o indifferent_a and_o in_o some_o author_n signify_v the_o same_o that_o imago_fw-la and_o even_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d though_o it_o be_v now_o by_o the_o use_n of_o father_n counsel_n and_o doctor_n determine_v to_o signify_v a_o empty_a or_o vain_a image_n of_o a_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o according_a to_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n idolum_fw-la nihil_fw-la est_fw-la in_o mundo_fw-la a_o idol_n be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n 7.4_o cor._n 7.4_o yet_o if_o a_o man_n respect_v the_o primitive_a signification_n or_o etymology_n it_o may_v perhaps_o be_v take_v more_o indifferent_o for_o it_o come_v from_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o signify_v species_n or_o forma_fw-la the_o seem_a shape_n or_o beauty_n of_o a_o thing_n or_o person_n but_o it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o the_o signification_n of_o word_n we_o must_v follow_v the_o ecclesiastical_a rule_n neither_o do_v i_o allow_v valencia_n his_o use_n of_o the_o word_n simulachrum_fw-la and_o explication_n of_o s._n peter_n text_n or_o even_o his_o argument_n draw_v from_o thence_o though_o the_o point_n of_o doctrine_n which_o he_o defend_v be_v true_a to_o wit_n image-worship_n but_o this_o be_v to_o show_v you_o how_o he_o may_v use_v the_o word_n harmeles_o especial_o declare_v himself_o plain_o by_o other_o word_n though_o for_o you_o to_o stand_v trifle_v &_o contend_v about_o word_n when_o you_o see_v his_o meaning_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o your_o want_n of_o matter_n but_o here_o by_o the_o way_n i_o can_v but_o note_v how_o to_o urge_v the_o matter_n more_o against_o valentia_n you_o run_v yourself_o upon_o the_o rock_n for_o you_o observe_v that_o the_o word_n use_v by_o saint_n peter_n in_o that_o place_n signify_v idol-worship_n not_o image-worship_n wherein_o you_o seem_v plain_o to_o confess_v that_o image-worship_n and_o idol-worship_n and_o consequent_o a_o image_n and_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o whereby_o as_o you_o think_v to_o advantage_v you_o self_n in_o this_o place_n against_o the_o jesuit_n so_o you_o do_v not_o mark_v that_o herein_o you_o contradict_v your_o self_n and_o the_o whole_a currant_n of_o your_o own_o doctor_n who_o chief_a argument_n against_o image_n be_v certain_a place_n of_o scripture_n against_o idol_n which_o you_o also_o bring_v before_o for_o if_o a_o image_n &_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o then_o be_v all_o your_o argument_n nothing_o worth_a or_o if_o they_o be_v then_o be_v valentia_n argument_n good_a choose_v which_o you_o will_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o cast_v up_o your_o count_n aright_o you_o will_v find_v you_o have_v lose_v more_o than_o you_o have_v gain_v by_o this_o citation_n of_o valencia_n 15._o a_o five_o point_n of_o uncertainty_n you_o deliver_v in_o these_o word_n concern_v the_o two_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n it_o be_v most_o evident_a say_v bellarmine_n but_o concern_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a and_o out_o of_o canus_n you_o say_v the_o divine_n speak_v so_o uncertaine_o of_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o they_o do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o give_v grace_n or_o no_o thus_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o the_o place_n of_o bellarm._n you_o be_v convince_v before_o of_o manifest_a corruption_n for_o whereas_o bellarm._n say_v it_o be_v certain_a fine_a cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o in_o fine_a but_o not_o so_o manifest_v you_o leave_v out_o not_o manifest_a and_o change_v certain_a into_o not_o certain_a beside_o what_o be_v that_o which_o bellarmine_n say_v be_v not_o manifest_v but_o certain_a that_o these_o two_o be_v sacrament_n the_o rest_n not_o noe_o such_o matter_n sir_n knight_n it_o be_v their_o signification_n which_o he_o speak_v of_o &_o yet_o not_o their_o signification_n of_o grace_n which_o they_o cause_n but_o their_o signify_v of_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o beginning_n and_o aeternal_a life_n which_o be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o grace_n give_v by_o the_o sacrament_n this_o signification_n he_o say_v be_v certain_a but_o not_o so_o evident_a in_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n for_o canus_n you_o corrupt_v he_o as_o foul_o also_o for_o first_o you_o join_v two_o several_a place_n together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v but_o one_o in_o canus_n himself_o &_o then_o make_v he_o say_v that_o the_o divine_n do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o that_o be_v matrimony_n give_v grace_n or_o no_o which_o be_v most_o flat_o false_a for_o as_o i_o show_v before_o he_o grant_v it_o with_o all_o divine_n to_o be_v proper_o a_o sacrament_n his_o two_o place_n several_o be_v thus_o the_o divine_n speak_v so_o diverse_o of_o the_o matter_n &_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o it_o be_v folly_n for_o a_o man_n to_o resolve_v any_o thing_n certain_a this_o be_v one_o whereof_o i_o speak_v more_o before_o &_o show_v that_o his_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a whither_o it_o be_v a_o sacrament_n or_o not_o or_o whither_o it_o have_v a_o matter_n and_o form_n 4._o cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o for_o that_o i_o show_v to_o be_v most_o certain_a and_o by_o most_o express_a word_n of_o his_o own_o but_o that_o no_o man_n can_v say_v determinate_o which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n which_o as_o bellarmine_n say_v well_o be_v not_o so_o necessary_a for_o we_o to_o know_v but_o that_o without_o it_o we_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o acknowledge_v a_o true_a sacrament_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o know_v what_o be_v requisite_a for_o celebrate_v a_o true_a sacrament_n and_o what_o those_o thing_n be_v without_o which_o it_o be_v not_o a_o sacrament_n though_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o of_o those_o thing_n be_v the_o matter_n &_o which_o the_o form_n for_o example_n if_o a_o priest_n in_o baptism_n use_v true_a water_n and_o the_o right_a word_n he_o do_v administer_v a_o true_a sacrament_n though_o he_o shall_v not_o know_v which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n nay_o though_o he_o shall_v think_v the_o word_n to_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o water_v the_o form_n though_o the_o clean_a contrary_n be_v truth_n the_o other_o place_n of_o canus_n be_v that_o he_o say_v that_o matrimony_n contract_v without_o a_o priest_n be_v no_o sacrament_n because_o in_o his_o opinion_n the_o word_n which_o the_o priest_n speak_v be_v the_o form_n and_o of_o that_o kind_n of_o matrimony_n he_o consequent_o deni_v it_o to_o give_v grace_n but_o of_o matrimony_n absolute_o and_o as_o it_o be_v use_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n he_o never_o make_v doubt_n see_v before_o his_o word_n 16._o the_o last_o matter_n of_o uncertainty_n be_v of_o our_o tradition_n which_o you_o say_v you_o be_v uncertain_a whereas_o the_o scripture_n be_v write_v to_o give_v we_o certainty_n for_o this_o say_n you_o allege_v no_o catholic_n true_o nor_o false_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v count_v of_o be_v so_o manifest_o false_a for_o whence_o have_v we_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o very_a scripture_n themselves_o but_o by_o tradition_n and_o much_o more_o of_o the_o sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o the_o scripture_n beside_o as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v and_o show_v this_o your_o prime_a principle_n be_v not_o only_o false_a but_o contrary_a to_o express_v scripture_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o father_n which_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v in_o whole_a treatise_n write_v hereof_o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o your_o section_n of_o certainty_n we_o find_v nothing_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n uncertain_a in_o the_o catholic_a church_n nothing_o certain_a on_o your_o side_n but_o only_o that_o you_o be_v always_o and_o every_o where_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v of_o the_o 11._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 11._o chap._n 11._o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n touch_v the_o great_a safety_n comfort_n and_o benefit_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o the_o protestant_a faith_n then_o in_o the_o romish_a chapter_n xi_o 1._o from_z certainty_n you_o come_v to_o safety_n whereof_o you_o need_v not_o have_v make_v so_o distinct_a mention_n and_o proof_n it_o follow_v necessary_o and_o manifest_o that_o that_o faith_n which_o be_v most_o certain_a in_o itself_o be_v also_o most_o safe_a for_o man_n to_o follow_v as_o also_o it_o can_v be_v safe_a without_o certainty_n wherefore_o as_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o prove_v it_o certain_a in_o your_o former_a
in_o the_o §_o of_o private_a mass_n and_o else_o where_o 7._o a_o sixth_o point_n of_o your_o safe_a doctrine_n be_v the_o marriage_n of_o priest_n whereof_o you_o say_v it_o be_v better_a to_o live_v chaste_o in_o matrimony_n then_o by_o single_a life_n to_o hazard_v their_o soul_n by_o incontinency_n this_o you_o prove_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o aeneas_n silvius_n panormitan_n and_o cassander_n of_o which_o three_o the_o last_o be_v no_o author_n to_o be_v regard_v the_o first_o be_v answer_v before_o the_o second_o only_o remain_v to_o be_v answer_v here_o to_o wit_n panormitane_n who_o indeed_o i_o find_v incline_v in_o opinion_n for_o the_o marriage_n of_o clergyman_n con_n panor_n cap._n cum_fw-la plini_n de_fw-fr cler._n con_n yet_o far_o otherwise_o than_o you_o for_o first_o he_o put_v the_o question_n whether_o the_o church_n can_v give_v way_n that_o a_o clerk_n may_v marry_v as_o the_o grecian_n do_v to_o which_o he_o answer_v affirmative_o and_o this_o he_o say_v be_v 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matter_n of_o life_n or_o manner_n 7.9_o 1._o cor._n 7.9_o of_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a man_n suppose_v his_o disposition_n occasion_n and_o danger_n and_o so_o it_o be_v free_a for_o every_o man_n to_o choose_v what_o he_o will_v do_v no_o man_n be_v force_v to_o it_o at_o first_o in_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o if_o he_o take_v upon_o he_o the_o office_n of_o a_o priest_n or_o obligation_n of_o a_o religious_a state_n he_o be_v then_o force_v to_o make_v good_a what_o he_o have_v promise_v and_o to_o render_v his_o vow_n to_o god_n which_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o moral_a honesty_n require_v neither_o be_v it_o so_o out_o of_o question_n that_o it_o be_v always_o safe_o even_o in_o that_o kind_n of_o safety_n for_o a_o man_n to_o marry_v for_o there_o be_v no_o less_o difficulty_n perhaps_o and_o consequent_o danger_n for_o marry_a man_n to_o contain_v themselves_o with_o in_o the_o bound_n of_o wedlock_n then_o for_o priest_n to_o contain_v themselves_o within_o 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hard_a than_o those_o in_o the_o other_o for_o it_o be_v the_o unction_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o god_n have_v pour_v forth_o abundant_o in_o the_o new_a law_n that_o make_v our_o saviour_n yoke_n sweet_a and_o his_o burden_n light_n which_o because_o your_o minister_n want_v chastity_n seem_v unto_o they_o a_o intolerable_a burden_n your_o way_n sir_n humphrey_n then_o be_v not_o more_o safe_a even_o in_o this_o kind_n of_o safety_n nor_o more_o easy_a nor_o more_o comfortable_a let_v we_o see_v whether_o it_o be_v so_o in_o the_o next_o point_n which_o be_v of_o prayer_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n 8._o of_o this_o you_o say_v s._n thomas_n of_o aquin_n say_v it_o be_v manifest_a that_o he_o receive_v more_o benefit_n which_o pray_v &_o understand_v what_o he_o say_v for_o the_o mind_n of_o he_o that_o understand_v not_o be_v without_o fruit_n you_o bring_v also_o lyra_n to_o the_o same_o purpose_n say_v that_o people_n be_v better_o bring_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o god_n &_o answer_v amen_o with_o great_a devotion_n when_o they_o understand_v the_o priest_n as_o also_o caietan_n say_v that_o it_o be_v better_a by_o s._n paul_n doctrine_n for_o the_o edify_n of_o the_o church_n that_o public_a prayer_n be_v make_v in_o a_o vulgar_a tongue_n to_o be_v understand_v indifferent_o by_o priest_n and_o people_n then_o in_o latin_a with_o two_o authoritye_n more_o one_o of_o gabriel_n another_o out_o of_o the_o rheims_n testament_n to_o all_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o first_o you_o be_v mistake_v in_o the_o whole_a matter_n for_o the_o question_n between_o you_o and_o we_o be_v not_o so_o much_o whither_o public_a prayer_n in_o latin_a be_v more_o or_o less_o profitable_a as_o whither_o they_o be_v lawful_a or_o not_o lawful_a we_o
draw_v from_o authority_n for_o pauperis_fw-la est_fw-la numerare_fw-la pecus_fw-la it_o be_v the_o sign_n of_o a_o poor_a man_n to_o number_v his_o cattle_n thus_o you_o say_v of_o salmeron_n in_o a_o few_o line_n discover_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o falsehood_n for_o first_o it_o be_v false_a that_o you_o produce_v father_n against_o the_o conception_n of_o our_o lady_n that_o be_v no_o controversy_n between_o you_o and_o we_o but_o only_o among_o ourselves_o wherefore_o if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o consent_n of_o father_n it_o be_v not_o you_o that_o produce_v they_o but_o our_o own_o author_n you_o only_o out_o of_o the_o great_a good_a affection_n you_o bear_v forsooth_o to_o our_o b._n saviour_n be_v ready_a to_o embrace_v any_o opinion_n that_o may_v more_o derogate_v from_o the_o dignity_n of_o his_o bless_a mother_n but_o what_o do_v crow_n look_v for_o but_o carrion_n second_o it_o be_v false_a that_o salmeron_n acknowledge_v any_o such_o uniform_a consent_n of_o father_n against_o he_o or_o that_o he_o make_v any_o such_o answer_n to_o they_o it_o be_v true_a indeed_o he_o say_v the_o contrary_a part_n allege_v for_o themselves_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o special_o of_o saint_n augustine_n which_o he_o answer_v another_o way_n but_o for_o those_o which_o he_o answer_v as_o you_o say_v here_o they_o be_v only_o late_a author_n or_o doctor_n as_o shall_v after_o appear_v three_o it_o be_v false_a that_o he_o acknowledge_v any_o uniform_a consent_n even_o of_o these_o late_a doctor_n against_o himself_o for_o he_o oppose_v a_o far_o great_a multitude_n of_o doctor_n against_o they_o use_v that_o say_n of_o elizaeus_n the_o prophet_n 6.16_o 4._o reg._n 6.16_o plures_fw-la nobiscum_fw-la sunt_fw-la quam_fw-la cum_fw-la illis_fw-la there_o be_v more_o with_o we_o then_o with_o they_o where_o then_o be_v the_o consent_n four_o it_o be_v a_o cunning_a trick_n if_o not_o a_o false_a for_o you_o to_o make_v this_o answer_n seem_v salmeron_n only_a whereas_o he_o profess_v to_o have_v it_o out_o of_o saint_n augustine_n and_o saint_n thomas_n of_o aquine_n cite_v two_o or_o three_o several_a place_n of_o saint_n augustine_n but_o it_o be_v well_o at_o lest_o that_o though_o you_o contemn_v their_o authority_n yet_o you_o do_v not_o do_v it_o so_o open_o but_o covert_o only_a under_o the_o shadow_n of_o a_o jesvit_n this_o therefore_o may_v be_v answer_n enough_o for_o you_o to_o show_v that_o we_o do_v not_o reject_v or_o elude_v the_o father_n see_v we_o have_v our_o answer_n out_o of_o they_o but_o to_o explain_v the_o meaning_n of_o salmeron_n saying_n that_o the_o place_n of_o authority_n be_v weak_a a_o little_a more_o i_o will_v allege_v s._n thomas_n of_o aquine_n his_o objection_n and_o answer_n he_o object_v that_o the_o science_n of_o divinity_n can_v be_v argumentative_a 2._o 1._o p_o q._n 1._o be_v 8._o and_o 2._o because_o say_v he_o it_o must_v argue_v out_o of_o authority_n or_o reason_n not_o out_o of_o authority_n because_o according_a to_o boetius_fw-la the_o place_n of_o authority_n be_v most_o weak_a not_o out_o of_o reason_n because_o then_o faith_n have_v no_o merit_n to_o this_o he_o answer_v that_o it_o argue_v out_o of_o divine_a authority_n and_o say_v that_o boetius_fw-la be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o human_a authority_n which_o he_o also_o say_v be_v the_o weak_a kind_n of_o proof_n so_o as_o by_o this_o salmeron_n meaning_n be_v plain_a not_o to_o reject_v authority_n but_o only_o to_o prefer_v reason_n before_o human_a authority_n as_o it_o be_v most_o plain_a that_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v prefer_v beside_o salmeron_n give_v other_o answer_n as_o that_o he_o oppose_v also_o a_o contrary_a multitude_n of_o doctor_n he_o oppose_v the_o force_n of_o reason_n he_o oppose_v the_o consent_n in_o a_o manner_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n conclude_v therefore_o that_o though_o some_o of_o the_o contrary_a part_n number_v a_o great_a many_o author_n some_o 200._o some_o 300._o some_o but_o 15._o yet_o the_o very_a number_v show_v they_o to_o be_v few_o according_a to_o that_o say_n pauperis_fw-la est_fw-la numerare_fw-la pecus_fw-la it_o be_v only_o for_o a_o poor_a man_n to_o number_v his_o cattle_n whereas_o a_o rich_a man_n cattle_n or_o other_o wealth_n be_v not_o so_o soon_o count_v insinuate_v thereby_o that_o his_o author_n be_v so_o many_o that_o they_o be_v not_o to_o be_v number_v and_o indeed_o he_o have_v almost_o as_o many_o vniversitye_n kingdom_n commonwealth_n religious_a order_n and_o other_o communitye_n for_o he_o as_o the_o other_o side_n have_v single_a author_n by_o all_o which_o it_o be_v apparent_a that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o absurdity_n in_o his_o say_n as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o seem_v for_o he_o slight_v not_o authority_n but_o prefer_v only_o great_a authority_n before_o less_o and_o reason_n before_o both_o which_o no_o man_n in_o his_o right_a wit_n can_v deny_v to_o be_v very_o good_a reason_n where_o 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particular_a to_o which_o i_o say_v that_o for_o the_o former_a part_n the_o knight_n say_v very_o true_a there_o be_v and_o ever_o have_v be_v some_o light_a new_a fangle_a people_n who_o give_v too_o much_o liberty_n to_o their_o wander_a thought_n and_o penn_n suffer_v themselves_o like_o chaff_n as_o they_o be_v to_o be_v blow_v hither_o and_o thither_o with_o the_o wind_n of_o inconstancy_n and_o such_o people_n they_o be_v for_o the_o most_o part_n that_o become_v haeretique_n though_o some_o also_o remain_v in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n yet_o so_o as_o they_o suffer_v some_o thing_n to_o escape_v which_o deserve_v censure_n wherefore_o the_o catholic_a church_n to_o prevent_v the_o danger_n and_o harm_n which_o may_v come_v by_o such_o book_n take_v the_o best_a order_n that_o can_v be_v in_o catholic_a country_n that_o no_o such_o book_n be_v print_v till_o they_o be_v review_v and_o approve_v not_o to_o contain_v any_o thing_n contrary_a to_o faith_n and_o good_a manner_n but_o because_o there_o have_v be_v many_o such_o writing_n publish_v this_o last_o age_n by_o occasion_n of_o heresy_n and_o liberty_n which_o come_v therewith_o to_o the_o great_a prejudice_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n there_o have_v be_v a_o course_n take_v for_o the_o restraint_n of_o all_o such_o not_o only_o writing_n of_o haeretique_n but_o even_o of_o catholic_n which_o have_v any_o tange_fw-la of_o haeresy_n either_o utter_o forbid_v they_o or_o correct_v they_o so_o as_o they_o may_v be_v safe_o read_v without_o danger_n of_o faith_n and_o good_a life_n and_o this_o kind_n of_o care_n have_v ever_o be_v use_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n though_o more_o or_o less_o as_o the_o necessity_n of_o time_n have_v be_v great_a or_o less_o 19.18_o act._n 19.18_o so_o we_o see_v in_o scripture_n itself_o some_o that_o
it_o against_o the_o haeretique_n which_o deny_v it_o and_o a_o little_a after_o again_o he_o go_v on_o thus_o to_o say_v nothing_o of_o this_o wisdom_n which_o you_o do_v not_o believe_v to_o be_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n there_o be_v many_o thing_n else_o which_o may_v most_o just_o hold_v i_o in_o the_o bosom_n thereof_o there_o hold_v i_o the_o consent_n of_o people_n and_o nation_n there_o hold_v i_o authority_n begin_v by_o miracle_n nourish_v by_o hope_n increase_v by_o charity_n strengthen_v by_o antiquity_n there_o hold_v i_o the_o succession_n of_o priest_n from_o the_o very_a seat_n of_o peter_n to_o who_o our_o lord_n after_o his_o resurrection_n commit_v the_o feed_n of_o his_o flock_n to_o the_o present_a bishoprique_n last_o the_o very_a name_n of_o catholic_a hold_v i_o and_o after_o again_o these_o therefore_o so_o many_o and_o so_o great_a most_o dear_a chain_n of_o the_o christian_a name_n do_v right_o hold_v a_o man_n believe_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n though_o for_o the_o slowness_n of_o our_o understanding_n or_o merit_n of_o our_o life_n truth_n do_v not_o show_v itself_o so_o very_o clear_o but_o with_o you_o that_o be_v manichee_n and_o i_o may_v say_v protestant_n or_o any_o other_o sect_n whatsoever_o where_o there_o be_v nothing_o of_o all_o these_o to_o invite_v and_o hold_v i_o there_o sound_v only_o a_o promise_n of_o truth_n thus_o far_o saint_n augustine_n very_a word_n by_o which_o any_o man_n will_v perceive_v that_o he_o make_v so_o much_o account_n of_o the_o learning_n of_o the_o multitude_n of_o people_n and_o nation_n of_o miracle_n of_o antiquity_n of_o succession_n of_o the_o name_n of_o catholic_n in_o our_o church_n which_o you_o account_v nothing_o as_o by_o they_o to_o hold_v himself_o in_o the_o bosom_n of_o that_o church_n insinuate_v withal_o that_o the_o want_n of_o they_o in_o haereticall_a congregation_n be_v sufficient_a to_o deter_v any_o man_n from_o they_o how_o much_o soever_o they_o prate_v of_o truth_n safety_n certainty_n and_o i_o know_v not_o what_o 5._o in_o grant_v we_o therefore_o these_o thing_n and_o acknowledge_v the_o want_n of_o they_o in_o your_o self_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o saint_n augustine_n you_o confess_v we_o to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o your_o own_o a_o false_a and_o haereticall_a conventicle_n as_o likewise_o you_o do_v in_o that_o you_o make_v the_o smallness_n of_o number_n to_o be_v a_o note_n of_o the_o true_a church_n saint_n augustine_n show_v it_o to_o be_v none_o for_o whereas_o the_o donatist_n do_v brag_v thereof_o he_o confute_v they_o thus_o 7._o de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eccl_n cap._n 7._o quid_fw-la est_fw-la haeretici_fw-la quod_fw-la de_fw-la paucitate_fw-la gloriamini_fw-la si_fw-la propterea_fw-la dominus_fw-la noster_fw-la jesus_n christus_n traditus_fw-la est_fw-la ad_fw-la mortem_fw-la ut_fw-la haereditate_fw-la multos_fw-la possideret_fw-la what_o be_v it_o o_o you_o haeretique_n that_o you_o brag_v of_o the_o smallness_n of_o your_o number_n if_o christ_n be_v therefore_o deliver_v up_o to_o death_n that_o he_o may_v by_o inhaeritance_n possess_v many_o and_o there_o he_o go_v on_o prove_v the_o same_o far_a out_o of_o diverse_a place_n of_o scripture_n and_o namely_o by_o 9_o or_o 10._o most_o plain_a place_n out_o of_o esay_n the_o prophet_n and_o then_o conclude_v again_o ubi_fw-la est_fw-la inquam_fw-la quod_fw-la de_fw-la paucitate_fw-la gloriamini_fw-la where_o i_o say_v be_v it_o that_o you_o brag_v of_o your_o fewne_n be_v not_o these_o the_o many_o of_o who_o it_o be_v say_v a_o little_a before_o that_o he_o shall_v possess_v many_o by_o heritage_n but_o of_o this_o the_o scripture_n be_v so_o full_a and_o so_o clear_a as_o i_o may_v well_o deny_v he_o the_o name_n of_o a_o christian_n that_o deni_v it_o wherefore_o for_o that_o place_n of_o a_o little_a flock_n which_o you_o bring_v in_o show_n only_o to_o the_o contrary_a vinc._n aug._n ep_v 50._o ad_fw-la bonif._n &_o ep_v 48._o ad_fw-la vinc._n s._n aug._n explicate_v it_o not_o of_o the_o church_n in_o general_n but_o of_o the_o good_a who_o be_v small_a in_o number_n in_o comparison_n of_o the_o wicked_a or_o of_o christ_n flock_n or_o church_n at_o that_o time_n in_o the_o beginning_n 12._o lib._n 4._o cap._n 54_o in_o luc_n 12._o and_o s._n bede_n expound_v it_o two_o way_n one_o of_o the_o small_a number_n of_o the_o elect_a in_o comparison_n of_o the_o reprobate_n the_o other_o of_o the_o church_n in_o general_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o humility_n wherein_o christ_n will_v have_v it_o to_o excel_v &_o increase_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n how_o much_o soever_o it_o be_v dilate_v in_o number_n quia_fw-la videlicet_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la svam_fw-la quantalibet_fw-la numerositate_fw-la iam_fw-la dilatatam_fw-la tamen_fw-la usque_fw-la ad_fw-la finem_fw-la mundi_fw-la humilitate_fw-la vult_fw-la crescere_fw-la for_o that_o place_n of_o s._n paul_n it_o patronize_v not_o your_o ignorance_n one_o iott_n for_o it_o be_v only_o mean_a of_o those_o who_o our_o saviour_n at_o first_o make_v choice_n of_o to_o preach_v his_o faith_n and_o make_v know_v his_o name_n unto_o the_o world_n who_o indeed_o be_v not_o many_o in_o number_n be_v but_o 12._o nor_o great_a in_o wisdom_n according_a to_o the_o flesh_n not_o have_v be_v bring_v up_o in_o learn_v but_o to_o mean_v trade_n as_o fish_v &_o the_o like_a nor_o mighty_a nor_o noble_a be_v but_o poor_a and_o obscure_a for_o wealth_n and_o parentage_n and_o this_o for_o a_o special_a reason_n as_o s._n ambrose_n declare_v in_o these_o word_n aduerte_n caeleste_fw-la consilium_fw-la non_fw-la sapientes_fw-la aliquos_fw-la non_fw-la divites_fw-la luc._n lib._n 5._o comment_n in_o luc._n non_fw-la nobiles_fw-la sed_fw-la piscatores_fw-la &_o publicanos_fw-la quos_fw-la dirigeret_fw-la elegit_fw-la ne_fw-la traduxisse_fw-la prudentia_fw-la ne_fw-la redemisse_fw-la divitijs_fw-la ne_fw-la potentiae_fw-la nobilitatisue_n authoritate_fw-la traxisse_fw-la aliquos_fw-la ad_fw-la svam_fw-la gratiam_fw-la videretur_fw-la ut_fw-la veritatis_fw-la ratio_fw-la non_fw-la disputationis_fw-la gratia_fw-la praevaleret_fw-la mark_v the_o heavenly_a wisdom_n he_o do_v not_o choose_v some_o wise_a or_o rich_a or_o noble_a but_o fisher_n and_o publican_n to_o send_v lest_o he_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v bring_v any_o to_o his_o grace_n by_o wile_n redeem_v they_o by_o riches_n or_o draw_v they_o by_o authority_n of_o power_n or_o nobility_n that_o reason_n of_o truth_n and_o not_o the_o grace_n of_o disputation_n may_v prevail_v 6._o and_o so_o christ_n make_v choice_n of_o a_o few_o simple_a man_n to_o convert_v the_o world_n that_o thereby_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o the_o conversion_n thereof_o be_v not_o a_o work_n of_o any_o worldly_a or_o humane_a but_o of_o divine_a power_n and_o virtue_n but_o if_o they_o shall_v not_o convert_v the_o world_n that_o be_v great_a multitude_n and_o several_a nation_n kingdom_n and_o country_n wise_a powerful_a and_o learned_a man_n but_o only_o some_o such_o small_a handful_n as_o you_o will_v have_v your_o little_a flock_n to_o be_v some_o weak_a unlearned_a and_o poor_a people_n as_o you_o will_v have_v your_o church_n to_o consist_v of_o it_o have_v be_v no_o wonder_n at_o all_o for_o we_o see_v many_o sect-maister_n draw_v great_a multitude_n after_o they_o far_o great_a every_o way_n then_o your_o church_n of_o england_n this_o place_n therefore_o which_o you_o bring_v for_o defence_n of_o the_o smallness_n of_o your_o number_n and_o want_v of_o learning_n in_o your_o church_n show_v it_o not_o to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n which_o for_o number_n be_v to_o be_v numberless_a and_o for_o extent_n to_o be_v spread_v over_o the_o world_n 18._o psal_n 18._o in_o omnem_fw-la terram_fw-la exivit_fw-la sonus_fw-la eorum_fw-la say_v holy_a david_n their_o sound_n go_v all_o over_o the_o earth_n whereas_o you_o acknowledge_v the_o contrary_a a_o mark_n of_o your_o church_n the_o true_a church_n be_v to_o consist_v of_o many_o wise_a mighty_a and_o noble_a personage_n gather_v and_o draw_v to_o the_o true_a catholic_a faith_n by_o those_o few_o unlearned_a weak_a and_o ignoble_a people_n for_o so_o s._n paul_n after_o in_o the_o same_o place_n seem_v to_o insinuate_v say_v quae_fw-la stulia_fw-la sunt_fw-la mundi_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o foolish_a thing_n of_o the_o world_n have_v god_n choose_v that_o he_o may_v confound_v the_o wise_a and_o the_o weak_a thing_n of_o the_o world_n have_v god_n choose_v that_o he_o may_v confound_v the_o strong_a and_o the_o base_a thing_n of_o the_o world_n and_o the_o contemptible_a have_v god_n choose_v and_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o that_o he_o may_v destroy_v those_o thing_n which_o be_v so_o as_o you_o see_v these_o few_o weak_a and_o ignorant_a man_n be_v to_o subdue_v the_o learning_n might_n and_o wisdom_n of_o the_o world_n to_o christ_n and_o draw_v it_o to_o his_o church_n and_o this_o be_v that_o which_o david_n say_v that_o he_o
gerson_n treatise_n in_o the_o margin_n which_o as_o he_o there_o acknowledge_v show_v the_o cause_n i_o there_o reprehend_v he_o for_o it_o as_o may_v be_v see_v here_o chap._n 9_o §_o 5._o n._n 7._o now_o as_o it_o seem_v reflect_v upon_o his_o own_o absurdness_n therein_o in_o his_o 4._o edition_n he_o do_v not_o say_v that_o gerson_n show_v the_o cause_n as_o he_o say_v before_o but_o declare_v they_o himself_o out_o of_o gerson_n say_v they_o be_v these_o to_o wit_n the_o length_n of_o lay_v man_n beard_n the_o loathsomeness_n to_o drink_v after_o other_o the_o costlinesse_n and_o difficulty_n of_o get_v wine_n the_o frost_n in_o winter_n the_o fly_v in_o summer_n the_o burden_n of_o bear_v the_o danger_n of_o spill_v and_o the_o people_n unworthines_n to_o equal_v the_o priest_n in_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n thus_o far_o be_v gerson_n word_n as_o he_o cit_v they_o in_o a_o different_a letter_n continue_v the_o discourse_n himself_o in_o this_o manner_n and_o thus_o for_o long_a beard_n and_o unsweet_a breath_n for_o a_o little_a pain_n and_o no_o great_a charge_n for_o frost_n in_o winter_n and_o fly_v in_o summer_n i_o say_v for_o these_o and_o the_o like_a catholic_a consideration_n pretend_v in_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n abolish_v christ_n institution_n and_o lay_v anathema_n upon_o all_o that_o at_o this_o day_n maintain_v the_o contrary_n so_o sir_n humphrey_n prove_v himself_o as_o impertinent_a in_o set_v down_o gerson_n discourse_n lame_o and_o ridiculous_o as_o he_o do_v before_o in_o not_o set_v it_o down_o at_o all_o for_o better_a declaration_n whereof_o i_o shall_v here_o put_v down_o gerson_n word_n as_o they_o lie_v spe_fw-la gers_n tract_n de_fw-fr come_v laico_fw-la sub_fw-la utraque_fw-la spe_fw-la which_o be_v these_o vnde_fw-la dicunt_fw-la plurimi_fw-la theologi_fw-la etc._n etc._n wherefore_o very_o many_o divine_v say_v that_o the_o custom_n of_o not_o communicate_v the_o laity_n under_o both_o kind_n especial_o since_o the_o multiplication_n of_o the_o faithful_a have_v be_v lawful_o and_o reasonable_o introduce_v &_o this_o for_o the_o avoidind_n of_o manifold_a danger_n of_o irreverence_n and_o scandal_n in_o the_o receive_n of_o this_o most_o bless_a sacrament_n the_o first_o danger_n be_v in_o spill_v the_o second_o in_o carriage_n from_o place_n to_o place_n the_o three_o in_o the_o fowl_a of_o the_o vessel_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v hallow_v &_o not_o handle_v or_o touch_v ordinary_o by_o lay-people_n and_o much_o less_o ought_v the_o consecrate_a wine_n to_o be_v sell_v in_o shop_n as_o it_o be_v say_v to_o be_v with_o such_o man_n that_o be_v the_o bohemian_o whoe_o stand_v for_o the_o use_n of_o the_o chalice_n the_o four_o be_v in_o the_o long_a beard_n of_o lay-man_n the_o five_o in_o the_o keep_n thereof_o for_o the_o sick_a because_o in_o the_o vessel_n it_o may_v become_v vinager_n and_o so_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n will_v cease_v to_o be_v there_o be_v neither_o to_o be_v receive_v nor_o to_o be_v consecrate_v a_o new_a without_o mass_n and_o so_o it_o may_v come_v to_o pass_v that_o pure_a vinager_n may_v come_v to_o be_v give_v in_o steed_n of_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n beside_o that_o in_o summer_n fly_n will_v breed_v how_o close_o soever_o the_o vessel_n shall_v be_v shut_v some_o time_n also_o it_o will_v putrify_v or_o become_v as_o it_o be_v noisome_a to_o drink_v and_o this_o reason_n be_v very_o efficacious_a as_o also_o for_o a_o other_o reason_n when_o many_o have_v drink_v before_o and_o we_o may_v ask_v in_o what_o vessel_n so_o great_a a_o quantity_n of_o wine_n shall_v be_v consecrate_v at_o easter_n for_o ten_o or_o twenty_o thousand_o person_n the_o sixth_o harm_n be_v in_o the_o costlinesse_n of_o wine_n at_o lest_o in_o many_o place_n where_o there_o be_v scarce_o wine_n find_v to_o celebrate_v withal_o &_o in_o other_o place_n where_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v have_v but_o at_o a_o dear_a rate_n beside_o there_o will_v be_v danger_n of_o congeling_n or_o turn_v to_o â—ee_n again_o there_o will_v be_v danger_n of_o credulity_n and_o this_o many_o way_n first_o that_o the_o dignity_n of_o the_o laity_n be_v as_o great_a in_o the_o receive_n of_o this_o sacrament_n as_o that_o of_o priest_n second_o that_o so_o to_o do_v be_v ever_o and_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o necessity_n &_o so_o all_o that_o have_v do_v and_o do_v think_v practice_n or_o teach_v otherwise_o have_v perish_v and_o do_v perish_v and_o general_o all_o as_o well_o clark_n doctor_n and_o prelate_n who_o have_v not_o oppose_v themselves_o against_o such_o a_o custom_n by_o word_n and_o writing_n and_o that_o they_o have_v pervert_v the_o scripture_n three_o that_o the_o virtue_n and_o force_n of_o this_o sacrament_n be_v not_o more_o principal_o in_o the_o consecration_n then_o in_o the_o receive_n four_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v not_o think_v right_o of_o the_o sacrament_n nor_o be_v herein_o to_o be_v imitate_v five_o that_o general_a counsel_n and_o particular_o this_o of_o constance_n have_v err_v in_o faith_n and_o good_a manner_n six_o it_o will_v many_o way_n be_v occasion_n of_o sedition_n and_o shisme_n in_o our_o part_n of_o christendom_n as_o experience_n show_v in_o bohemia_n hitherto_o be_v the_o word_n of_o gerson_n by_o the_o only_a read_n and_o compare_v whereof_o it_o will_v easy_o appear_v how_o bad_o sir_n humphrey_n have_v deal_v as_o well_o in_o cull_v out_o some_o few_o reason_n of_o least_o force_n as_o also_o in_o deliver_v they_o not_o in_o the_o author_n phrase_n as_o they_o lie_v but_o in_o a_o certain_a ridiculous_a fashion_n of_o his_o own_o for_o first_o he_o mention_v not_o the_o two_o main_a head_n which_o contain_v all_o the_o rest_n and_o be_v chief_o to_o be_v regard_v in_o the_o administration_n of_o sacrament_n to_o wit_n irreverence_n and_o scandal_n then_o among_o the_o danger_n of_o irreverence_n he_o leave_v that_o which_o may_v most_o easy_o 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those_o word_n indifferent_o as_o may_v appear_v levit._n cap._n 23._o where_o other_o holiday_n beside_o the_o saturday_n or_o sabbath_n be_v call_v sabbata_n 3._o or_o 4._o time_n in_o that_o one_o chapter_n and_o in_o the_o begin_n thereof_o those_o day_n which_o be_v call_v sabbata_n be_v call_v twice_o feriae_fw-la sanctae_fw-la holiday_n so_o as_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o make_v such_o a_o deal_n of_o difference_n between_o sabbath_n and_o holiday_n show_v yourself_o to_o be_v but_o shallow_o read_v in_o scripture_n beside_o i_o may_v answer_n to_o this_o as_o to_o the_o former_a objection_n that_o this_o commandment_n be_v partly_o ceremonial_a to_o wit_n for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o that_o particular_a day_n of_o saturday_n and_o partly_o natural_a to_o wit_n so_o far_o as_o it_o oblige_v to_o the_o observe_n of_o some_o day_n or_o time_n holy_a indeterminate_o 12._o but_o if_o we_o be_v such_o great_a offender_n for_o change_v â—â—e_z word_n sabbath_n in_o some_o of_o our_o catechism_n into_o holiday_n what_o be_v you_o for_o change_v the_o very_a commandment_n while_o you_o stand_v work_v upon_o saturday_n and_o rest_n upon_o sunday_n so_o change_v the_o sabbath_n itself_o but_o what_o stuff_n be_v this_o for_o you_o to_o trouble_v your_o gentry_n reader_n withal_o in_o the_o very_a beginning_n of_o your_o book_n and_o in_o your_o epistle_n dedicatory_a forsooth_o and_o not_o only_o to_o touch_v upon_o it_o here_o but_o to_o print_v the_o commandment_n fair_a in_o a_o leaf_n by_o themselves_o with_o a_o marginal_a note_n of_o ledaesma_n catechism_n of_o 2._o or_o 3._o edition_n as_o if_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n stand_v at_o some_o goodly_a gaze_n but_o by_o this_o a_o man_n may_v easy_o guess_v what_o matter_n he_o be_v like_a to_o find_v in_o the_o book_n itself_o i_o can_v have_v note_v a_o thing_n of_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o you_o in_o this_o epistle_n in_o the_o first_o leaf_n where_o you_o say_v truth_n be_v iustify_v of_o her_o child_n whereas_o the_o text_n of_o scripture_n be_v wisdom_n be_v justify_v &c_n &c_n but_o that_o i_o do_v not_o count_v it_o worth_a speak_v of_o 13._o touch_v your_o great_a boast_n that_o if_o we_o can_v show_v one_o good_a author_n in_o every_o age_n for_o this_o 1500._o year_n who_o have_v hold_v our_o trent_n article_n as_o you_o call_v they_o de_fw-fr fide_fw-la you_o will_v confess_v our_o doctor_n schoolman_n etc._n etc._n to_o be_v mistake_v and_o to_o need_v a_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la and_o that_o you_o will_v submit_v yourself_o to_o the_o roman_a church_n acknowledge_v the_o novelty_n of_o your_o own_o church_n forasmuch_o as_o this_o your_o promise_n seem_v by_o the_o manner_n to_o be_v but_o a_o proud_a vaunt_n to_o delude_v the_o simple_a reader_n to_o make_v he_o more_o confident_a
thou_o be_v not_o to_o be_v the_o author_n but_o the_o keeper_n not_o the_o institutor_n but_o a_o scholar_n not_o leadinge_n but_o follow_v so_o as_o by_o timothee_n the_o whole_a church_n be_v understand_v as_o the_o same_o author_n say_v or_o especial_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o pastor_n it_o follow_v that_o the_o church_n creat_v not_o any_o new_a article_n of_o faith_n but_o teach_v only_o that_o which_o she_o have_v learn_v of_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n 6._o from_o which_o follow_v that_o other_o thing_n which_o i_o mean_v to_o tell_v the_o knight_n for_o his_o learning_n which_o also_o i_o touch_v before_o in_o a_o word_n to_o wit_n that_o when_o point_n of_o doctrine_n before_o in_o controversy_n and_o undefined_a come_v to_o be_v define_v by_o the_o church_n the_o doctrine_n be_v not_o therefore_o new_a because_o it_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la or_o matter_n of_o faith_n now_o which_o it_o be_v not_o before_o as_o he_o most_o false_o and_o fond_o suppose_v for_o a_o undoubted_a truth_n and_o upon_o this_o his_o own_o idle_a fancy_n build_v many_o goodly_a argument_n like_v so_o many_o castle_n in_o the_o air_n for_o out_o of_o this_o he_o think_v it_o to_o follow_v that_o we_o vary_v in_o our_o doctrine_n that_o because_o forsooth_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n now_o the_o fide_fw-la which_o be_v not_o before_o and_o whereof_o doctor_n do_v dispute_v which_o see_v we_o may_v not_o now_o doubt_v of_o therefore_o the_o faith_n be_v in_o his_o judgement_n alter_v but_o this_o show_v nothing_o but_o the_o poorness_n of_o his_o judgement_n for_o by_o this_o he_o may_v prove_v that_o the_o sun_n as_o it_o rise_v high_a and_o high_o and_o by_o spread_v his_o beam_n give_v light_n in_o some_o place_n att_o noon_n where_o it_o do_v not_o in_o the_o morning_n that_o therefore_o it_o be_v change_v in_o itself_o than_o which_o what_o can_v be_v more_o absurd_a 7._o and_o that_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o sun_n 6.9_o cant._n 6.9_o appear_v by_o that_o place_n of_o the_o canticle_n quae_fw-la est_fw-la ista_fw-la quae_fw-la progreditur_fw-la quasi_fw-la aurora_fw-la consurgens_fw-la pulchra_fw-la ut_fw-la luna_fw-la electa_fw-la ut_fw-la sol_fw-la terribilis_fw-la ut_fw-la castrorum_fw-la acies_fw-la ordinata_fw-la who_o be_v she_o that_o go_v forward_o as_o the_o morning_n rise_v fair_a as_o the_o moon_n choose_v as_o the_o sun_n terrible_a as_o a_o order_a army_n of_o tent_n which_o word_v no_o man_n ever_o doubt_v to_o be_v literal_o understand_v of_o the_o church_n even_o then_o as_o the_o sun_n may_v go_v spread_v his_o beam_n more_o and_o more_o with_o out_z increase_n or_o change_v of_o it_o own_o light_n in_o itself_o so_o may_v the_o church_n go_v more_o and_o more_o spread_v the_o beam_n of_o her_o divine_a faith_n with_o out_o increase_v or_o alteration_n of_o the_o faith_n in_o itself_o and_o as_o the_o sun_n beam_n may_v shine_v in_o a_o valley_n or_o room_n of_o a_o house_n where_o it_o do_v not_o shine_v before_o so_o may_v the_o church_n spread_v the_o light_n of_o her_o faith_n show_v such_o or_o such_o a_o point_n to_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n which_o before_o be_v not_o so_o know_v to_o be_v or_o which_o though_o it_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n in_o itself_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o to_o us._n 8._o for_o more_o declaration_n whereof_o i_o may_v yet_o bring_v another_o more_o scholarly_o example_n which_o be_v of_o the_o principle_n of_o several_a science_n which_o be_v to_o be_v the_o premise_n in_o demonstrative_a argument_n of_o those_o science_n in_o which_o principle_n or_o premise_n be_v contain_v diverse_a truth_n which_o may_v be_v draw_v out_o of_o they_o by_o many_o several_a conclusion_n one_o follow_v of_o another_o these_o conclusion_n be_v truth_n in_o themselves_o before_o though_o they_o do_v not_o so_o appear_v unto_o i_o till_o i_o see_v the_o connexion_n they_o have_v with_o the_o premise_n and_o how_o they_o be_v contain_v in_o they_o and_o by_o the_o many_o several_a conclusion_n which_o be_v so_o draw_v the_o truth_n of_o those_o principle_n and_o premise_n do_v more_o show_v itself_o but_o not_o receive_v any_o increase_n or_o change_v in_o itself_o thereby_o even_o so_o we_o say_v in_o the_o prime_a principle_n of_o our_o faith_n reveal_v immediate_o to_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n and_o by_o they_o deliver_v unto_o the_o church_n be_v contain_v all_o truth_n which_o any_o way_n belong_v to_o our_o faith_n and_o whereby_o the_o church_n have_v in_o succeed_a age_n destroy_v several_a heresy_n as_o they_o have_v rise_v without_o create_v or_o coin_v new_a faith_n or_o alter_v the_o old_a but_o out_o of_o the_o old_a ground_n and_o premise_n draw_v those_o conclusion_n which_o destroy_v new_a heresy_n and_o show_v they_o to_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o ancient_a faith_n and_o in_o that_o manner_n the_o church_n have_v grow_v and_o increase_v in_o knowledge_n by_o degree_n and_o shall_v still_o go_v grow_v and_o increase_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n 6._o greg._n moral_a lib._n 9_o cap_n 6._o as_o show_v s._n greg._n his_o discourse_n upon_o those_o word_n of_o job._n qui_fw-la facit_fw-la arcturum_fw-la &_o oriana_n &_o hyadas_n etc._n etc._n where_o he_o say_v thus_o vrgente_n mundi_fw-la sine_fw-la superna_fw-la scientia_fw-la proficit_fw-la &_o largius_fw-la cum_fw-la tempore_fw-la excrescit_fw-la as_o the_o world_n draw_v to_o a_o end_n the_o heavenly_a knowledge_n profit_v and_o with_o time_n increase_v wherein_o also_o she_o resemble_v our_o b._n saviour_n her_o chief_a lord_n and_o heavenly_a spouse_n who_o though_o in_o grace_n and_o knowlegde_v he_o never_o receive_v the_o least_o increase_n from_o the_o first_o instant_n of_o his_o conception_n 2.52_o luc_n 2.52_o yet_o the_o scripture_n say_v after_o proficiebat_fw-la sapientia_fw-la &_o aetate_fw-la &_o gratia_fw-la apud_fw-la deum_fw-la &_o homines_fw-la to_o wit_n because_o he_o show_v it_o more_o in_o his_o word_n and_o action_n 9_o this_o be_v far_a confirm_v by_o the_o manner_n and_o practice_n which_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n and_o father_n ever_o observe_v in_o and_o out_o of_o counsel_n in_o prove_v or_o define_v point_n of_o faith_n to_o wit_n by_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n belief_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o search_n whereof_o the_o holy_a church_n join_v humane_a industry_n with_o god_n holy_a grace_n and_o assistance_n for_o when_o any_o question_n or_o doubt_v of_o faith_n arise_v particular_a doctor_n several_o dispute_v and_o write_v thereof_o then_o if_o far_o need_n require_v it_o the_o holy_a church_n gather_v together_o her_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n in_o a_o council_n to_o examine_v and_o discuss_v the_o matter_n more_o full_o as_o in_o that_o first_o council_n of_o the_o apostle_n 15.6_o act._n 15.6_o whereof_o the_o scripture_n say_v conueneruntque_fw-la apostoli_fw-la &_o seniores_fw-la videre_fw-la de_fw-la verbo_fw-la hoc_fw-la the_o apostle_n ad_fw-la ancient_n assemble_v to_o consider_v of_o this_o word_n the_o pastor_n come_v so_o together_o and_o have_v the_o presence_n of_o our_o saviour_n according_a to_o his_o promise_n and_o his_o holy_a spirit_n out_o of_o the_o prophetical_a and_o apostolical_a scripture_n and_o tradition_n join_v therewith_o the_o authoritye_n and_o interpretation_n of_o holy_a father_n and_o doctor_n out_o of_o praecedent_a time_n she_o do_v infallible_o resolve_v and_o determine_v the_o matter_n not_o as_o new_o but_o as_o ancient_a orthodox_n and_o derive_v from_o her_o forefather_n make_v that_o which_o be_v ever_o in_o itself_o a_o divine_a truth_n so_o to_o appear_v unto_o we_o that_o now_o we_o may_v not_o make_v far_a question_n thereof_o 10._o seq_n vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 27.28.29_o &_o seq_n and_o this_o be_v the_o common_a doctrine_n deliver_v by_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n i_o think_v it_o not_o amiss_o somewhat_o far_o to_o confirm_v and_o authorise_v the_o same_o by_o a_o excellent_a discourse_n of_o that_o holy_a and_o ancient_a father_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n not_o recite_v his_o very_a word_n because_o it_o will_v be_v too_o long_o but_o only_o the_o substance_n which_o be_v this_o have_v prove_v by_o the_o word_n depositum_fw-la out_o of_o s._n paul_n that_o a_o pastor_n priest_n preacher_n or_o doctor_n there_o mean_v by_o timothee_n must_v only_o deliver_v the_o doctrine_n which_o be_v deposit_v with_o he_o or_o in_o his_o hand_n not_o find_v out_o by_o he_o which_o he_o have_v receive_v not_o invent_v whereof_o he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v author_n or_o beginner_n but_o the_o keeper_n or_o guardian_n he_o say_v that_o if_o such_o a_o man_n have_v ability_n for_o it_o he_o may_v like_v another_o beseleel_n adorn_v set_v out_o and_o grace_v the_o precious_a jewel_n of_o divine_a faith_n by_o expound_v more_o clear_o that_o which_o before_o be_v believe_v more_o
obscure_o that_o posterity_n may_v rejoice_v at_o the_o clear_a knowledge_n of_o that_o which_o antiquity_n do_v reverence_n even_o before_o it_o come_v to_o be_v so_o know_v that_o in_o fine_a he_o must_v so_o theach_v which_o he_o have_v learned_a that_o though_o he_o deliver_v it_o in_o a_o new_a manner_n yet_o he_o deliver_v not_o any_o new_a matter_n and_o then_o ask_v a_o question_n by_o way_n of_o objection_n whether_o christian_a religion_n do_v not_o receive_v any_o increase_n or_o profit_n he_o answer_v yes_o very_o but_o in_o such_o manner_n as_o it_o may_v be_v true_o call_v increase_n not_o change_n for_o increase_n import_v a_o amplification_n or_o enlargement_n of_o a_o thing_n in_o itself_o change_n import_v a_o turn_n of_o one_o thing_n into_o a_o other_o and_o so_o he_o say_v the_o understanding_n knowledge_n and_o wisdom_n both_o of_o every_o man_n in_o particular_a and_o of_o the_o whole_a church_n in_o general_n may_v receive_v increase_n but_o so_o as_o to_o persist_v in_o same_o doctrine_n sense_n and_o judgement_n which_o he_o declare_v by_o the_o similitude_n of_o a_o man_n body_n which_o though_o it_o be_v great_a when_o he_o come_v to_o be_v a_o man_n then_o when_o he_o be_v a_o chile_n yet_o all_o the_o part_n and_o limb_n be_v the_o same_o so_o as_o though_o it_o receive_v increase_v yet_o no_o change_n the_o same_o he_o declare_v by_o another_o similitude_n of_o a_o grain_n of_o wheat_n cast_v into_o the_o ground_n which_o though_o it_o multiply_v in_o the_o growth_n yet_o it_o multiply_v only_o in_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o grain_n whereupon_o he_o conclude_v that_o the_o church_n be_v a_o diligent_a and_o wary_a keeper_n of_o the_o doctrine_n commit_v to_o her_o custody_n do_v not_o add_v diminish_v or_o any_o way_n change_n do_v not_o cut_v of_o what_o be_v necessary_a nor_o add_v any_o thing_n superfluous_a but_o with_o all_o industry_n so_o handle_v all_o ancient_a doctrine_n as_o if_o any_o have_v not_o receive_v their_o 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understanding_n thereof_o many_o time_n express_v the_o ancient_a sense_n of_o faith_n by_o the_o propriety_n of_o a_o new_a appellation_n that_o be_v by_o a_o new_a word_n then_o invent_v to_o express_v the_o ancient_a belief_n 11._o this_o be_v the_o discourse_n of_o this_o holy_a father_n which_o i_o have_v set_v down_o the_o more_o full_o in_o regard_n it_o contain_v the_o clear_a decision_n of_o this_o whole_a matter_n for_o out_o of_o it_o together_o with_o what_o have_v be_v hitherto_o say_v it_o may_v be_v gather_v first_o that_o the_o church_n creat_v not_o any_o new_a article_n of_o faith_n but_o only_o that_o she_o deliver_v unto_o we_o those_o article_n of_o ancient_a faith_n which_o she_o have_v receive_v from_o they_o by_o who_o she_o be_v first_o plant_v and_o teach_v that_o faith_n much_o less_o do_v she_o deliver_v unto_o we_o any_o new_a faith_n for_o though_o she_o shall_v have_v new_a distinct_a revelation_n yet_o will_v it_o not_o follow_v that_o the_o faith_n be_v new_a so_o long_o as_o those_o it_o follow_v that_o he_o that_o deni_v the_o explication_n do_v deny_v the_o article_n and_o consequent_o frame_v unto_o himself_o a_o new_a belief_n 12._o and_o that_o the_o absurdity_n of_o sir_n humphrey_n argument_n may_v yet_o appear_v more_o manifest_o i_o add_v that_o any_o haeretique_n that_o ever_o be_v may_v by_o the_o very_a same_o manner_n of_o argument_n challenge_v antiquity_n to_o himself_o and_o accuse_v we_o of_o novelty_n for_o he_o may_v say_v such_o a_o thing_n be_v not_o the_o fide_fw-la before_o such_o a_o council_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v new_a and_o that_o he_o believe_v only_o that_o which_o be_v believe_v before_o that_o council_n ergo_fw-la he_o believe_v the_o ancient_a faith_n which_o argument_n if_o it_o be_v good_a in_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v good_a in_o they_o and_o consequent_o he_o must_v disallow_v the_o decree_n of_o all_o counsel_n as_o novelty_n and_o approve_v all_o heresy_n for_o the_o ancient_a belief_n which_o be_v so_o great_a and_o manifest_a a_o absurdity_n he_o will_v not_o sure_a for_o shame_n admit_v and_o consequent_o must_v allow_v of_o vincentiu_n his_o authority_n and_o the_o answer_n out_o of_o he_o to_o wit_n that_o counsel_n in_o define_v matter_n of_o faith_n do_v not_o coin_v a_o new_a faith_n but_o declare_v explicate_v and_o define_v the_o old_a which_o that_o sir_n humphrey_n may_v the_o better_a conceive_v i_o shall_v here_o in_o a_o word_n urge_v he_o with_o a_o example_n of_o his_o own_o church_n thus_o the_o church_n of_o england_n admit_v of_o diverse_a book_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o canonical_a whereof_o there_o be_v doubt_n for_o three_o or_o four_o hundred_o year_n together_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n as_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o hebrew_n the_o second_o epistle_n of_o s._n peter_n the_o ep._n of_o s._n jude_n the_o apocalypse_n of_o s._n john_n and_o some_o other_o which_o be_v after_o admit_v for_o canonical_a now_o i_o will_v know_v of_o he_o whether_o upon_o the_o admittance_n of_o they_o there_o be_v any_o change_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o church_n or_o whether_o even_o those_o book_n have_v receive_v any_o change_n in_o themselves_o he_o can_v say_v they_o do_v and_o there_o by_o he_o may_v answer_v himself_o and_o see_v plain_o that_o the_o change_n which_o seem_v to_o be_v be_v not_o in_o the_o thing_n to_o be_v believe_v but_o in_o we_o that_o be_v to_o believe_v they_o because_o upon_o such_o definition_n or_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n we_o be_v oblige_v to_o believe_v they_o which_o it_o may_v be_v we_o be_v not_o before_o and_o this_o may_v suffice_v for_o this_o matter_n of_o new_a article_n of_o belief_n which_o sir_n humphrey_n will_v feign_v father_n upon_o us._n 13._o another_o thing_n which_o he_o much_o build_v upon_o and_o whereby_o he_o think_v to_o prevail_v against_o we_o in_o the_o authority_n of_o some_o particular_a doctor_n or_o schoolman_n of_o the_o church_n differ_v among_o themselves_o in_o some_o point_v not_o define_v by_o the_o church_n at_o such_o time_n as_o they_o do_v dispute_v thereof_o though_o afterward_o they_o be_v but_o any_o man_n of_o judgement_n will_v present_o see_v that_o this_o be_v but_o to_o delude_v the_o simple_a sort_n of_o people_n of_o his_o own_o side_n who_o he_o think_v to_o make_v believe_v any_o thing_n for_o who_o do_v not_o know_v that_o catholic_n bind_v themselves_o only_o to_o defend_v the_o catholic_a faith_n which_o neither_o do_v nor_o can_v depend_v upon_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o one_o private_a doctor_n how_o learned_a soever_o for_o neither_o be_v any_o thing_n count_v faith_n till_o it_o be_v teach_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n or_o common_a consent_n of_o doctor_n 4._o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 4._o for_o so_o say_v vincentius_n lerinensis_n express_o that_o we_o be_v to_o believe_v without_o doubt_v not_o what_o one_o or_o two_o master_n teach_v but_o what_o all_o with_o common_a consent_n hold_v write_v and_o teach_v plane_o frequent_o and_o perseverant_o 39_o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 39_o and_o this_o as_o he_o say_v else_o where_o non_fw-fr in_o omnibus_fw-la divinae_fw-la legis_fw-la questiunculis_fw-la sed_fw-la quidem_fw-la certe_fw-la praecipuè_fw-la in_o fidei_fw-la regula_fw-la not_o in_o all_o small_a question_n of_o the_o divine_a law_n but_o chief_o in_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n which_o sir_n humphrey_n can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o but_o only_o that_o he_o lift_v still_o to_o be_v limp_a and_o wilful_o dissemble_v the_o truth_n for_o if_o he_o have_v take_v notice_n of_o this_o he_o will_v have_v have_v less_o to_o say_v though_o he_o say_v not_o much_o even_o now_o with_o all_o the_o dissemble_n he_o can_v devise_v 14._o neither_o will_v it_o serve_v his_o turn_n to_o say_v that_o we_o urge_v he_o and_o his_o minister_n out_o of_o their_o
own_o author_n and_o why_o may_v not_o he_o do_v the_o like_a to_o we_o for_o the_o reason_n be_v clean_o different_a they_o have_v no_o public_a authority_n which_o can_v define_v what_o be_v faith_n and_o what_o not_o but_o that_o be_v leave_v not_o only_o to_o every_o private_a doctor_n or_o minister_n but_o to_o every_o private_a lay_v man_n and_o woman_n and_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o it_o be_v no_o convince_a proof_n to_o urge_v one_o particular_a protestant_a doctor_n be_v authority_n against_o another_o there_o be_v not_o two_o among_o they_o of_o one_o opinion_n whole_o much_o less_o one_o bind_v to_o answer_n for_o the_o other_o yet_o we_o be_v fain_o and_o may_v with_o good_a reason_n use_v it_o because_o they_o have_v no_o certain_a rule_n of_o faith_n wherewith_o we_o may_v urge_v they_o authority_n of_o church_n they_o have_v none_o scripture_n they_o have_v indeed_o but_o so_o mangle_v corrupt_a pervert_v by_o translation_n and_o misinterpret_v according_a to_o their_o own_o fancy_n that_o as_o they_o have_v it_o it_o be_v as_o good_a as_o nothing_o tradition_n they_o have_v none_o counsel_n they_o have_v not_o any_o among_o themselves_o nor_o will_v stand_v to_o we_o consent_v of_o father_n or_o schoolman_n they_o care_v not_o for_o consent_v of_o doctor_n they_o have_v not_o among_o themselves_o nor_o can_v have_v without_o a_o head_n neither_o if_o they_o have_v will_v any_o man_n think_v himself_o more_o bind_v by_o that_o then_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n what_o then_o be_v leave_v but_o to_o urge_v they_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o such_o as_o they_o acknowledge_v for_o their_o brethren_n but_o with_o we_o the_o case_n be_v far_o different_a for_o we_o have_v diverse_a infallible_a rule_n of_o faith_n though_o all_o with_o some_o reference_n to_o one_o principal_a rule_n as_o scripture_n in_o the_o plain_a and_o literal_a sense_n which_o be_v out_o of_o controversy_n tradition_n or_o common_a belief_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n counsel_n either_o general_a or_o particular_a confirm_v by_o the_o see_v apostolic_a the_o authority_n of_o that_o holy_a see_v itself_o define_v ex_fw-la cathedra_fw-la though_o without_o either_o general_a or_o particular_a council_n the_o common_a and_o uniform_a consent_n of_o ancient_a father_n or_o modern_a doctor_n and_o schoolman_n deliver_v any_o thing_n unto_o we_o as_o matter_n of_o faith_n 15._o all_o these_o six_o rule_n of_o faith_n we_o acknowledge_v wherewith_o let_v this_o knight_n or_o any_o protestant_n in_o the_o world_n urge_v we_o we_o flinch_v not_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v the_o authority_n but_o be_v ready_a to_o make_v good_a whatsoever_o be_v teach_v any_o of_o these_o way_n what_o folly_n then_o be_v it_o for_o a_o man_n to_o stand_v urge_v we_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o one_o private_a man_n who_o may_v straggle_v out_o from_o the_o rest_n though_o to_o go_v far_o than_o we_o need_v in_o such_o great_a liberty_n as_o we_o give_v protestant_n we_o give_v they_o leave_v to_o urge_v we_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o one_o single_a doctor_n in_o a_o point_n wherein_o he_o be_v not_o contradict_v by_o other_o catholic_a doctor_n or_o which_o other_o catholic_n do_v not_o whole_o disavow_v what_o more_o can_v a_o man_n desire_n and_o yet_o again_o though_o the_o knight_n or_o any_o other_o protestant_n shall_v bring_v such_o a_o single_a author_n for_o his_o opinion_n yet_o be_v there_o such_o a_o main_a difference_n between_o he_o and_o they_o that_o no_o protestant_n can_v just_o plead_v that_o single_a catholic_a author_n to_o be_v whole_o of_o his_o opinion_n or_o belief_n in_o that_o point_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o other_o wherein_o they_o differ_v for_o the_o protestant_n hold_v his_o doctrine_n stiff_o not_o mean_v in_o any_o case_n or_o for_o any_o authority_n to_o change_v or_o leave_v it_o which_o be_v it_o that_o that_o make_v a_o man_n proper_o a_o haeretique_n whereas_o the_o catholic_a ever_o 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all_o this_o which_o here_o i_o say_v be_v to_o be_v understand_v suppose_v that_o indeed_o he_o cite_v catholic_a author_n and_o cite_v they_o true_o as_o here_o he_o promise_v which_o promise_v for_o as_o much_o as_o concern_v true_a cite_n how_o he_o perform_v i_o shall_v afterward_o make_v manifest_a here_o only_o i_o shall_v add_v a_o word_n concern_v his_o author_n who_o he_o promise_v we_o shall_v be_v catholic_n whereas_o indeed_o for_o the_o most_o part_n they_o be_v either_o know_v haeretique_n or_o some_o such_o man_n as_o though_o with_o much_o ado_n they_o may_v pass_v for_o catholic_n as_o erasmus_n cornelius_n agrippa_n cassander_n and_o the_o like_a yet_o they_o give_v themselves_o so_o much_o liberty_n in_o they_o writing_n as_o they_o come_v to_o be_v note_v for_o it_o and_o their_o work_n forbid_v of_o which_o i_o will_v not_o therefore_o make_v any_o account_n as_o no_o other_o catholic_n do_v but_o when_o i_o come_v to_o such_o authoritye_n as_o there_o be_v many_o in_o this_o book_n i_o mean_v to_o make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o the_o author_n be_v condemn_v or_o book_n forbid_v in_o the_o index_n librorum_fw-la prohibitorum_fw-la the_o table_n of_o forbid_a book_n wherein_o i_o can_v but_o note_v sir_n humphrey_n ill_a favour_v and_o dishonest_a deal_n in_o pretend_v to_o cite_v only_o our_o own_o doctor_n and_o schoolman_n and_o yet_o afterward_o obtrude_a such_o as_o he_o know_v to_o be_v subject_a to_o so_o main_n exception_n and_o so_o to_o be_v by_o we_o disavow_v and_o reject_v as_o incompetent_a judge_n or_o witness_n 17._o but_o there_o be_v no_o other_o to_o be_v expect_v at_o such_o a_o man_n hand_n and_o therefore_o i_o will_v neither_o look_v for_o better_a nor_o say_v more_o of_o it_o but_o by_o this_o occasion_n add_v a_o word_n or_o two_o concern_v the_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la which_o so_o much_o trouble_v the_o conscience_n of_o these_o man_n which_o be_v right_o understand_v no_o man_n of_o reason_n and_o judgement_n can_v be_v offend_v with_o it_o for_o it_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o continuance_n of_o the_o same_o care_n which_o have_v be_v ever_o observe_v in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n for_o preserve_v of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n and_o integrity_n of_o life_n from_o the_o corruption_n of_o haeretique_n and_o other_o wicked_a man_n who_o by_o book_n bring_v great_a prejudice_n both_o to_o faith_n and_o manner_n unless_o special_a care_n be_v use_v for_o praevent_v thereof_o of_o the_o necessity_n and_o justness_n of_o which_o course_n there_o be_v whole_a book_n write_v by_o diverse_a learned_a catholic_a doctor_n neither_o can_v any_o body_n dislike_v thereof_o but_o only_a haeretique_n who_o indeed_o find_v themselves_o mighty_o aggreive_v therewith_o as_o be_v by_o this_o course_n deprive_v of_o a_o chief_a mean_n of_o spread_v their_o wicked_a doctrine_n by_o book_n though_o indeed_o they_o have_v no_o more_o cause_n to_o complain_v then_o necromancer_n judiciary_n astrologer_n soothsayer_n witch_n magician_n and_o even_o bad_a catholic_n who_o publish_v naughty_a and_o lascivious_a book_n for_o this_o care_n of_o the_o church_n do_v extend_v to_o all_o whatsoever_o may_v be_v offensive_a or_o hurtful_a either_o to_o faith_n or_o good_a manner_n 18._o but_o because_o sir_n humphrey_n will_v needs_o have_v it_o that_o the_o bible_n be_v also_o forbid_a and_o the_o father_n writing_n appoint_v to_o be_v correct_v and_o raze_v i_o answer_v that_o for_o the_o bible_n indeed_o it_o be_v not_o permit_v in_o the_o vulgar_a language_n to_o every_o body_n without_o any_o regard_n or_o distinction_n of_o person_n as_o it_o never_o be_v nor_o aught_o to_o be_v as_o be_v well_o prove_v by_o authority_n of_o father_n and_o reason_n in_o the_o preface_n of_o the_o rheims_n testament_n but_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o forbid_v but_o that_o it_o
be_v in_o the_o bishop_n power_n to_o grant_v leave_n if_o upon_o conference_n with_o the_o parish-priest_n or_o confessor_n of_o the_o party_n that_o desire_v leave_v he_o find_v he_o to_o be_v such_o a_o one_o as_o may_v not_o incur_v danger_n of_o faith_n but_o be_v like_a to_o increase_v in_o virtue_n and_o devotion_n by_o read_v thereof_o which_o with_o any_o reasonable_a man_n may_v be_v count_v sufficient_a liberty_n as_o for_o the_o father_n it_o be_v most_o gross_o false_a which_o the_o knight_n after_o the_o ordinary_a ministerial_a tune_n stand_v cant_v that_o we_o blot_v out_o and_o raze_v they_o at_o our_o pleasure_n for_o though_o for_o soemuch_o as_o concern_v the_o late_a catholic_a author_n of_o this_o last_o age_n for_o this_o our_o index_n of_o which_o be_v all_o the_o difficulty_n begin_v but_o from_o the_o year_n 1515._o whatsoever_o need_v correction_n be_v to_o be_v mend_v or_o blot_v out_o yet_o for_o other_o go_v before_o that_o time_n it_o be_v express_o say_v that_o nothing_o may_v be_v change_v unless_o some_o manifest_a error_n through_o the_o fraud_n of_o haeretique_n or_o carelessness_n of_o the_o printer_n be_v creep_v in_o but_o that_o if_o any_o thing_n worth_n nothing_o occur_v the_o new_a edition_n of_o the_o same_o author_n by_o some_o note_n in_o the_o margin_n or_o at_o the_o late_a end_n the_o author_n mind_n may_v be_v explain_v 4._o de_fw-fr correct_v lib._n §._o 3._o &_o 4._o or_o the_o hard_a place_n by_o compare_v other_o passage_n of_o the_o same_o author_n be_v make_v more_o clear_a now_o be_v here_o any_o thing_n that_o derogate_v from_o the_o dignity_n and_o authority_n of_o antiquity_n what_o be_v it_o then_o that_o these_o man_n will_v have_v what_o be_v it_o they_o can_v carp_v at_o nothing_o but_o that_o they_o themselves_o be_v sting_v in_o that_o hereby_o they_o be_v keep_v either_o from_o publish_v their_o own_o wicked_a work_n or_o corrupt_v the_o father_n at_o their_o pleasure_n and_o to_o wipe_v away_o this_o blemish_n from_o themselves_o they_o will_v lay_v it_o upon_o us._n and_o by_o this_o that_o be_v here_o say_v of_o this_o matter_n may_v be_v answer_v no_o little_a part_n of_o sir_n humphrey_n book_n whereof_o one_o whole_a chapter_n be_v of_o this_o matter_n beside_o other_o bitter_a invective_n upon_o other_o occasion_n to_o fill_v his_o paper_n though_o there_o also_o i_o shall_v have_v occasion_n to_o say_v somewhat_o more_o hereof_o 19_o the_o last_o thing_n which_o here_o i_o mean_v to_o speak_v of_o be_v a_o certain_a distinction_n of_o explicit_a and_o implicit_a faith_n which_o the_o knight_n and_o his_o minister_n cry_v out_o against_o and_o be_v please_v sometime_o to_o make_v themselves_o merry_a withal_o as_o if_o they_o will_v laugh_v it_o out_o but_o it_o be_v too_o well_o and_o solid_o ground_v to_o be_v blow_v away_o with_o the_o breath_n of_o any_o such_o ministerial_a knight_n as_o he_o be_v i_o will_v therefore_o only_o declare_v it_o in_o a_o word_n that_o the_o 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of_o damnation_n as_o say_v saint_n athanasius_n in_o his_o crede_fw-la and_o all_o not_o be_v able_a to_o know_v what_o be_v teach_v in_o every_o particular_a there_o must_v be_v some_o mean_n whereby_o to_o believe_v all_o and_o this_o by_o a_o implicit_a faith_n include_v in_o itself_o a_o promptness_n or_o readiness_n of_o the_o understanding_n and_o will_n to_o obey_v and_o rely_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o holy_a church_n wherein_o no_o catholic_n that_o believe_v any_o one_o point_n can_v have_v much_o difficulty_n see_v the_o reason_n why_o he_o believe_v that_o one_o point_n be_v the_o authority_n of_o god_n declare_v unto_o we_o by_o the_o mouth_n of_o the_o never_o err_a church_n 20._o neither_o be_v this_o implicit_a faith_n for_o the_o ignorant_a alone_o as_o the_o knight_n say_v but_o it_o be_v for_o all_o both_o learned_a and_o unlearned_a for_o there_o be_v no_o man_n so_o learn_v but_o may_v be_v ignorant_a of_o some_o one_o point_n or_o other_o or_o at_o 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whatsoever_o else_n shall_v be_v propound_v by_o the_o catholic_a church_n then_o to_o believe_v a_o great_a many_o more_o with_o out_o this_o mind_n for_o that_o former_a be_v divine_a faith_n this_o late_a only_o humane_a self_n opinion_n and_o judgement_n 21._o neither_o be_v there_o any_o cause_n why_o this_o knight_n shall_v so_o cry_v out_o against_o implicit_a faith_n obtrude_v as_o he_o say_v upon_o the_o ignorant_a for_o it_o be_v not_o obtrude_v upon_o any_o man_n but_o rather_o we_o desire_v with_o saint_n paul_n that_o all_o may_v be_v replenish_v which_o the_o knowledge_n of_o god_n and_o heavenly_a thing_n but_o every_o body_n know_v that_o all_o man_n be_v not_o of_o capacity_n and_o understanding_n alike_o and_o for_o such_o as_o be_v not_o able_a to_o attain_v high_a we_o say_v it_o be_v sufficient_a for_o they_o to_o know_v some_o few_o thing_n and_o for_o the_o rest_n to_o believe_v as_o other_o in_o the_o catholic_a church_n believe_v do_v not_o s._n paul_n speak_v wisdom_n among_o the_o perfect_a that_o be_v teach_v they_o the_o great_a and_o high_a mystery_n of_o faith_n and_o yet_o to_o other_o he_o give_v only_a milk_n 2._o 1._o cor._n 2._o that_o be_v the_o more_o easy_a mystery_n of_o faith_n not_o meat_n for_o say_v he_o you_o be_v not_o yet_o able_a be_v it_o not_o pretty_a if_o every_o simple_a man_n shall_v only_o believe_v so_o much_o as_o his_o own_o understanding_n reach_v unto_o and_o for_o that_o which_o it_o can_v reach_v to_o deny_v it_o be_v not_o this_o a_o notable_a point_n of_o pride_n and_o yet_o this_o be_v that_o which_o the_o knight_n will_v have_v every_o man_n to_o do_v and_o deride_v we_o catholic_n because_o we_o will_v not_o have_v man_n so_o to_o do_v but_o with_o humility_n to_o believe_v what_o they_o do_v not_o understand_v
so_o long_o as_o they_o have_v sufficient_a ground_n to_o believe_v it_o which_o never_o want_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o out_o of_o it_o be_v ever_o want_v by_o this_o any_o man_n may_v see_v whether_o this_o distinction_n of_o explicit_a and_o implicit_a faith_n do_v not_o stand_v with_o very_o great_a reason_n and_o consequent_o whether_o the_o knight_n who_o laugh_v thereat_o do_v not_o show_v himself_o most_o worthy_a of_o laughter_n 22._o especial_o if_o we_o add_v withal_o that_o it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o this_o implicit_a faith_n that_o he_o speak_v against_o as_o divine_a faith_n in_o general_a for_o that_o he_o count_v implicit_a faith_n when_o a_o man_n be_v bind_v by_o a_o blind_a kind_n of_o obedience_n as_o he_o call_v it_o to_o submit_v his_o judgement_n to_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v the_o true_a property_n of_o divine_a faith_n and_o that_o be_v it_o which_o he_o count_n simplicity_n and_o call_v it_o implicit_a faith_n to_o believe_v that_o whereof_o we_o understand_v not_o the_o reason_n but_o herein_o he_o destroy_v the_o very_a nature_n of_o faith_n express_o contradict_v s._n paul_n definition_n thereof_o which_o be_v this_o 11.1_o hebr_n 11.1_o faith_n be_v the_o substance_n of_o thing_n to_o be_v hope_v for_o a_o argument_n of_o thing_n not_o appear_v and_o s._n aug_n plain_o say_v that_o be_v faith_n to_o believe_v that_o which_o thou_o do_v not_o see_v and_z s._n greg._n add_v euang._n greg._n ho._n 36._o in_o euang._n that_o faith_n have_v no_o merit_n where_o humane_a reason_n give_v experience_n so_o as_o for_o a_o man_n to_o speak_v against_o this_o kind_n of_o implicit_a be_v plain_a infidelity_n and_o therefore_o i_o shall_v say_v no_o more_o of_o it_o but_o only_o suppose_v it_o as_o a_o most_o certain_a and_o common_o receive_v principle_n of_o the_o father_n and_o point_n of_o absolute_o necessary_a christian_a humility_n for_o a_o man_n so_o to_o submit_v his_o judgement_n in_o what_o he_o understand_v not_o i_o shall_v conclude_v with_o a_o word_n of_o vincent_n lerinensis_n wish_v such_o man_n as_o have_v suffer_v themselves_o out_o of_o presumption_n to_o be_v carry_v away_o with_o some_o novel_a opinion_n out_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n to_o return_v thereunto_o by_o this_o humility_n of_o implicit_a faith_n in_o these_o word_n dediscant_fw-la bene_fw-la quod_fw-la didicerunt_fw-la non_fw-la bene_fw-la 25._o cap._n 25._o &_o ex_fw-la toto_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la dogmate_fw-it quod_fw-la intellectu_fw-la capi_fw-la potest_fw-la capiant_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la credant_fw-la let_v they_o unlearne_v well_o that_o which_o they_o have_v learn_v not_o well_o and_o out_o of_o the_o whole_a doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n let_v they_o conceive_v what_o can_v be_v conceive_v what_o can_v let_v they_o believe_v which_o authority_n alone_o be_v sufficient_a to_o warrant_v our_o distinction_n of_o explicit_a and_o implicit_a faith_n against_o all_o sir_n humphrey_n scornful_a laughter_n 2._o chap._n 2._o and_o so_o have_v note_v thus_o much_o in_o this_o place_n by_o occasion_n of_o his_o praeamble_n i_o come_v now_o to_o the_o examination_n of_o his_o section_n whether_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v with_o out_o cause_n bitter_a against_o the_o reform_a church_n as_o the_o knight_n affirm_v chapter_n ii_o 1._o the_o knight_n first_o section_n be_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v without_o cause_n bitter_a against_o the_o reform_a church_n that_o she_o be_v bitter_a he_o prove_v because_o we_o style_v he_o and_o his_o not_o only_o by_o the_o common_a name_n of_o haeretique_n but_o also_o by_o other_o special_a reproachful_a epithet_n pertain_v to_o the_o several_a sect_n of_o zuinglius_fw-la luther_n caluin_n etc._n etc._n second_o because_o we_o accurse_v and_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o will_v not_o let_v they_o live_v with_o we_o whereas_o we_o admit_v jew_n and_o infidel_n that_o all_o this_o be_v without_o cause_n he_o prove_v first_o by_o a_o authority_n of_o theodoret_n which_o speak_v of_o a_o contention_n between_o two_o faction_n in_o the_o church_n of_o antioch_n and_o the_o reason_n to_o allay_v it_o because_o say_v theodoret_n both_o part_n make_v one_o and_o the_o same_o confession_n of_o their_o faith_n for_o both_o maintain_v the_o creed_n of_o the_o nicene_n council_n second_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o bellarmine_n who_o he_o make_v to_o say_v that_o the_o apostle_n never_o propound_v as_o common_a article_n of_o faith_n other_o thing_n than_o the_o article_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n the_o ten_o commandment_n and_o some_o few_o of_o the_o sacrament_n because_o these_o thing_n be_v simple_o necessary_a and_o profitable_a for_o all_o man_n the_o rest_n be_v such_o as_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v without_o they_o three_o he_o make_v it_o a_o undeniable_a truth_n that_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o the_o roman_a be_v two_o sister_n and_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n fail_v and_o become_v a_o harlott_n it_o be_v well_o do_v of_o his_o church_n to_o separate_v herself_o lest_o she_o may_v be_v partaker_n of_o her_o plague_n and_o so_o go_v on_o inveigh_v bitter_o against_o the_o roman_a church_n to_o the_o very_a end_n of_o the_o section_n whereof_o this_o be_v the_o whole_a substance_n which_o i_o have_v bring_v into_o this_o method_n the_o better_a to_o answer_n it_o 2._o that_o we_o catholic_n style_v the_o knight_n and_o his_o reformer_n by_o the_o common_a name_n of_o haeretique_n we_o deny_v not_o that_o some_o particular_a catholic_a author_n style_v some_o of_o they_o that_o be_v the_o zwinglians_n lutheran_n and_o other_o by_o other_o reproachful_a name_n we_o also_o deny_v not_o but_o why_o this_o knight_n shall_v complain_v as_o if_o he_o be_v injure_v in_o all_o the_o several_a name_n that_o be_v give_v to_o the_o several_a sect_n of_o haeretique_n i_o see_v not_o unless_o it_o so_o be_v that_o he_o be_v of_o all_o their_o several_a religion_n which_o yet_o i_o see_v not_o how_o he_o can_v be_v they_o be_v so_o many_o and_o so_o contrary_a among_o themselves_o but_o be_v he_o of_o one_o or_o other_o or_o more_o and_o let_v he_o but_o go_v into_o germany_n and_o profess_v himself_o a_o caluinist_n or_o a_o zuinglian_n he_o shall_v find_v so_o good_a entertainment_n and_o such_o gentle_a term_n at_o the_o lutheran_n hand_n as_o i_o dare_v bold_o say_v he_o will_v never_o complain_v more_o of_o the_o bitterness_n of_o catholic_n against_o he_o and_o his_o brethren_n for_o the_o word_n haeretique_n which_o be_v the_o worst_a of_o all_o other_o as_o contain_v all_o in_o itself_o he_o can_v but_o know_v that_o it_o have_v ever_o go_v with_o such_o as_o have_v hold_v new_a particular_a doctrine_n different_a from_o the_o common_a doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o therefore_o the_o word_n according_a to_o the_o etymology_n be_v no_o word_n of_o contumely_n but_o a_o word_n signify_v the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n and_o it_o be_v only_o grow_v by_o custom_n to_o be_v contumelious_a because_o the_o thing_n itself_o to_o wit_n heresy_n be_v the_o most_o detestable_a thing_n in_o the_o world_n if_o then_o the_o thing_n ot_fw-mi crime_n of_o heresy_n pertain_v to_o a_o man_n and_o that_o he_o be_v notorious_o guilty_a thereof_o i_o see_v not_o what_o great_a bitterness_n it_o be_v to_o give_v he_o the_o name_n of_o haeretique_n if_o i_o will_v i_o can_v urge_v his_o bitterness_n much_o more_o in_o the_o same_o kind_a and_o in_o this_o very_a section_n as_o for_o example_n where_o he_o call_v the_o catholic_a church_n a_o harlott_n the_o whore_n of_o babylon_n the_o pope_n antichrist_n catholic_n idolater_n and_o a_o great_a deal_n more_o but_o i_o let_v all_o that_o pass_v make_v only_o this_o answer_n that_o we_o do_v nothing_o in_o this_o matter_n of_o name_n which_o seem_v to_o he_o so_o great_a a_o point_n of_o bitterness_n but_o what_o we_o can_v warrant_v by_o very_o good_a authority_n and_o example_n even_o of_o scripture_n 11.15_o act._n 13.11_o 2._o cor._n 11.15_o s._n paul_n call_v that_o enemy_n of_o faith_n elymas_n the_o magician_n son_n of_o the_o devil_n enemy_n of_o all_o justice_n and_o false_a apostle_n in_o general_a that_o be_v haeretique_n he_o call_v the_o minister_n of_o satan_n in_o a_o other_o place_n jud._n philip._n 3.2_o 1._o io._n 2.18_o ep._n jud._n he_o call_v haeretique_n by_o the_o name_n of_o dog_n s._n john_n call_v they_o antichrist_n s._n jude_n be_v most_o vehement_a against_o they_o give_v they_o many_o bitter_a epithet_n and_o compare_v they_o to_o cain_n to_o balaam_n to_o core_n our_o saviour_n himself_o say_v of_o one_o of_o his_o disciple_n that_o he_o be_v a_o devil_n 6._o joan._n 6._o which_o he_o mean_v of_o judas_n who_o be_v ordinary_o and_o worthy_o rank_v among_o haeretique_n which_o consider_v sir_n humphrey_n you_o shall_v never_o
have_v stand_v complain_v of_o the_o word_n but_o free_v yourself_o of_o the_o matter_n and_o all_o have_v be_v well_o 3._o for_o that_o other_o point_n of_o bitterness_n that_o we_o accurse_v and_o excommunicate_v you_o and_o spare_v jew_n and_o infidel_n accuse_v we_o therein_o of_o great_a cruelty_n and_o bitterness_n you_o shall_v have_v remember_v s._n paul_n authority_n and_o example_n do_v not_o he_o excommunicate_v the_o incestuous_a corinthian_a and_o deliver_v he_o to_o the_o devil_n and_o yet_o spare_v jew_n and_o infidel_n he_o do_v and_o give_v the_o reason_n why_o he_o spare_v they_o to_o wit_n because_o he_o have_v no_o authority_n over_o they_o quid_fw-la mihi_fw-la de_fw-la ijs_fw-la qui_fw-la foris_fw-la sunt_fw-la iudicare_fw-la 5.12_o 1._o cor._n 5.12_o what_o have_v i_o to_o do_v to_o judge_v those_o that_o be_v without_o that_o be_v out_o of_o my_o jurisdiction_n but_o because_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n shall_v not_o likewise_o say_v that_o by_o privilege_n of_o your_o heresy_n you_o likewise_o exempt_v yourself_o 20._o 1._o timoth._n i._n 20._o you_o may_v remember_v how_o s._n paul_n in_o a_o other_o place_n deliver_v alexander_n and_o hymecraeus_n haeretique_n to_o satan_n which_o yet_o you_o cannott_n call_v bitterness_n but_o just_a severity_n unless_o you_o will_v also_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o condemn_v s._n paul_n of_o cruelty_n and_o bitterness_n which_o i_o presume_v you_o will_v not_o if_o then_o you_o and_o your_o fellow_n minister_n be_v haeretique_n as_o they_o be_v why_o shall_v you_o deny_v to_o undergo_v the_o same_o doom_n clear_a yourself_o of_o the_o heresy_n but_o complain_v not_o of_o the_o curse_n and_o excommunication_n it_o be_v and_o have_v ever_o be_v the_o just_a censure_n of_o the_o church_n against_o haeretique_n schismatic_n and_o all_o enormous_a and_o contumacious_a sinner_n we_o must_v not_o alter_v law_n for_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n though_o you_o alter_v faith_n at_o your_o pleasure_n 4._o now_o then_o 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bishop_n decease_v his_o word_n be_v these_o speak_v of_o some_o bishop_n who_o gather_v together_o say_v that_o the_o church_n be_v to_o be_v bring_v to_o concord_n nam_fw-la constabat_fw-la etc._n etc._n for_o it_o be_v plain_a 4_o lib._n 3._o cap._n 4_o that_o they_o be_v not_o only_a impugn_a by_o the_o favourer_n of_o contrary_a doctrine_n but_o also_o that_o they_o be_v pull_v insunder_o by_o mutual_a dissension_n among_o themselves_o for_o at_o antioch_n the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n which_o follow_v sound_a doctrine_n be_v divide_v into_o two_o part_n for_o all_o who_o stand_v for_o the_o excellent_a man_n eustathius_n have_v separate_v themselves_o do_v perpetual_o make_v their_o meeting_n a_o part_n and_o they_o which_o stand_v for_o that_o admirable_a man_n meletius_n separate_v from_o the_o arian_n faction_n do_v celebrate_v the_o holy_a mystery_n in_o palaea_n so_o the_o place_n be_v call_v and_o yet_o be_v the_o confession_n of_o faith_n of_o both_o one_o and_o other_o 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for_o persuade_v of_o concord_n with_o haeretique_n without_o their_o renounce_n of_o their_o heresy_n 5._o but_o a_o man_n may_v well_o have_v patience_n to_o see_v this_o author_n meaning_n abuse_v when_o he_o shall_v see_v both_o bellarmine_n meaning_n abuse_v and_o his_o word_n corrupt_v as_o i_o shall_v now_o show_v his_o word_n out_o of_o himself_o be_v these_o 11._o lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la cap._n 11._o it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v first_o that_o in_o the_o christian_a doctrine_n as_o well_o of_o faith_n as_o manner_n there_o be_v some_o thing_n simple_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n for_o all_o man_n as_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o article_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n the_o ten_o commandment_n and_o some_o sacrament_n other_o thing_n be_v not_o so_o necessary_a as_o that_o without_o the_o explicit_a knowledge_n belief_n and_o profession_n of_o they_o a_o man_n may_v not_o be_v save_v so_o he_o have_v a_o ready_a will_n to_o receive_v and_o believe_v they_o when_o they_o shall_v be_v lauful_o propound_v unto_o he_o by_o the_o church_n thus_o bellarmine_n in_o one_o place_n and_o in_o another_o a_o little_a after_o again_o he_o say_v note_n second_o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v preach_v to_o all_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v necessary_a for_o all_o but_o of_o other_o thing_n not_o all_o to_o all_o but_o some_o to_o all_o and_o some_o only_a to_o praelat_n bishop_n and_o priest_n so_o bellarmine_n by_o which_o any_o man_n may_v see_v how_o false_o and_o cunning_o the_o knigh_n have_v deal_v in_o cite_v this_o authority_n for_o i_o will_v know_v of_o he_o where_o bellarmine_n say_v that_o the_o apostle_n never_o propound_v as_o common_a article_n of_o faith_n other_o thing_n than_o the_o article_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n the_o ten_o commandment_n and_o some_o few_o sacrament_n to_o begin_v first_o with_o the_o last_o word_n where_o do_v bellarmine_n say_v some_o few_o sacrament_n he_o say_v some_o sacrament_n indeed_o but_o few_o he_o say_v not_o which_o though_o it_o be_v not_o much_o yet_o i_o can_v think_v but_o sir_n humphrey_n have_v a_o meaning_n in_o it_o to_o make_v bellarmine_n symbolize_v with_o he_o in_o his_o paucity_n of_o sacrament_n second_o where_o do_v bellarmine_n say_v that_o the_o apostle_n propound_v the_o ten_o commandment_n and_o some_o sacrament_n as_o article_n of_o faith_n where_o find_v you_o that_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v not_o you_o make_v more_o article_n of_o faith_n now_o then_o ever_o any_o man_n do_v before_o the_o ten_o commandment_n be_v indeed_o to_o be_v believe_v but_o yet_o be_v they_o not_o so_o much_o matter_n of_o belief_n as_o practice_v not_o so_o much_o pertain_v to_o faith_n as_o to_o charity_n towards_o god_n and_o our_o neighbour_n and_o this_o bellarmine_n see_v very_o well_o when_o he_o say_v that_o in_o the_o christian_a doctrine_n as_o will_v of_o faith_n as_o manner_n something_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n for_o
donatist_n who_o justify_v themselves_o as_o you_o sir_n knight_n justify_v your_o church_n much_o more_o of_o this_o may_v be_v say_v but_o this_o may_v serve_v to_o show_v you_o not_o to_o be_v in_o your_o right_a wit_n that_o brag_v of_o that_o which_o you_o ought_v most_o to_o be_v ashamed_a of_o and_o account_n that_o to_o make_v for_o you_o which_o make_v most_o against_o you_o 9_o for_o that_o which_o you_o talk_v of_o go_v out_o of_o egypt_n and_o babylon_n which_o you_o will_v have_v man_n understand_v the_o catholic_a church_n as_o if_o you_o be_v command_v to_o go_v out_o from_o she_o do_v but_o once_o show_v we_o that_o egypt_n and_o babylon_n which_o the_o sripture_n speak_v of_o be_v ever_o the_o true_a church_n and_o then_o you_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v say_v some_o what_o for_o your_o church_n departure_n from_o the_o roman_a which_o impudence_n itself_o can_v deny_v to_o have_v be_v once_o the_o true_a church_n you_o be_v bold_a indeed_o to_o say_v that_o babylon_n be_v a_o true_a church_n wherewith_o sometime_o the_o faithful_a do_v communicate_v but_o that_o after_o it_o be_v more_o deprave_a the_o faithful_a be_v command_v to_o go_v out_o of_o it_o but_o i_o may_v ask_v you_o where_o you_o read_v this_o what_o father_n what_o doctor_n what_o man_n ever_o take_v babylon_n in_o scripture_n to_o be_v use_v for_o the_o name_n of_o the_o true_a church_n s._n peter_n in_o one_o of_o his_o epistle_n speak_v of_o rome_n by_o the_o name_n of_o babylon_n out_o of_o which_o a_o multitude_n of_o father_n and_o doctor_n prove_v that_o saint_n peter_n be_v at_o rome_n and_o now_o you_o forsooth_o bring_v some_o of_o they_o cite_v by_o our_o author_n to_o that_o purpose_n to_o prove_v that_o by_o babylon_n be_v understand_v the_o true_a church_n abuse_v all_o those_o father_n most_o egregious_o among_o all_o who_o never_o one_o mean_v any_o such_o matter_n but_o only_o by_o babylon_n understand_v the_o temporal_a state_n and_o government_n of_o the_o city_n of_o rome_n as_o it_o be_v subject_a to_o those_o pagan_a tyrannize_a emperor_n which_o persecute_v the_o church_n and_o people_n of_o god_n wherein_o it_o do_v resemble_v that_o other_o ancient_a and_o true_a babylon_n which_o detain_v the_o jew_n than_o the_o true_a church_n and_o people_n of_o god_n in_o captivity_n and_o oppression_n which_o also_o s._n peter_n own_o word_n do_v sufficient_o show_v distinguish_v most_o plain_o babylon_n from_o the_o true_a church_n for_o he_o say_v thus_o 5.13_o 1._o pet._n 5.13_o ecclesia_fw-la quae_fw-la est_fw-la in_o babylone_a coëlecta_fw-la the_o church_n which_o be_v in_o babylon_n coelect_a salute_v you_o not_o that_o babylon_n be_v a_o true_a church_n as_o your_o word_n be_v sir_n humphrey_n 10._o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o when_o she_o be_v deprave_a the_o faithful_a be_v will_v to_o go_v out_o of_o she_o that_o be_v out_o of_o she_o that_o be_v once_o the_o true_a church_n you_o be_v extreme_o mistake_v for_o if_o you_o mean_v any_o true_a babylon_n as_o that_o city_n of_o chaldaea_n or_o that_o other_o of_o egypt_n or_o babylon_n by_o similitude_n and_o likeness_n as_o be_v rome_n in_o time_n of_o the_o heathen_a emperor_n and_o as_o many_o interpreter_n think_v towards_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n in_o time_n of_o antichrist_n the_o city_n or_o temporal_a government_n thereof_o shall_v again_o become_v of_o which_o time_n that_o of_o the_o apocalypse_n be_v mean_v that_o the_o faithful_a shall_v fly_v for_o avoid_v of_o the_o cruelty_n and_o tyranny_n of_o the_o persecutor_n which_o shall_v then_o be_v more_o cruel_a than_o ever_o or_o if_o by_o babylon_n you_o mean_v the_o whole_a company_n of_o wicked_a man_n from_o the_o begin_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n as_o s._n aug._n take_v it_o throughout_o his_o great_a work_n de_fw-fr civet_n dei_fw-la and_o other_o father_n and_o doctor_n and_o many_o interpreter_n understand_v that_o place_n of_o the_o apocalypse_n 18._o if_o i_o say_v you_o mean_v it_o any_o of_o these_o way_n as_o no_o man_n of_o understand_v ever_o mean_v or_o understand_v it_o otherwise_o then_o be_v it_o never_o any_o true_a church_n and_o so_o the_o child_n and_o people_n of_o god_n may_v well_o be_v will_v to_o get_v out_o of_o it_o either_o local_o by_o motion_n of_o the_o body_n or_o spiritual_o by_o avoid_v the_o manner_n of_o the_o people_n not_o have_v any_o thing_n with_o they_o in_o their_o wicked_a way_n but_o if_o you_o mean_v as_o you_o express_v yourself_o that_o by_o babylon_n be_v understand_v the_o true_a church_n and_o that_o it_o may_v be_v deprave_a that_o be_v that_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n notwithstanding_o all_o his_o promise_n for_o the_o perpetuity_n thereof_o as_o that_o he_o will_v be_v with_o it_o to_o the_o world_n end_n that_o it_o be_v build_v upon_o a_o rock_n that_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o it_o that_o he_o will_v send_v the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o be_v with_o it_o for_o ever_o notwithstanding_o that_o the_o church_n be_v his_o kingdom_n his_o inheritance_n his_o mystical_a body_n his_o spouse_n that_o notwithstanding_o all_o this_o i_o say_v it_o shall_v fail_v it_o shoull_a be_v deprave_a it_o shall_v be_v wiolate_v i_o know_v not_o what_o to_o say_v but_o to_o stop_n my_o ear_n against_o that_o mouth_n of_o blasphemy_n of_o you_o and_o herewith_o end_v this_o section_n the_o rest_n thereof_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o bitter_a froth_n of_o a_o distemper_a stomach_n and_o unworthy_a of_o answer_n 3._o chap._n 3._o the_o examination_n of_o sir_n humphrey_n second_n and_o three_o section_n chapter_n iii_o 1._o in_o the_o second_o section_n sir_n humphrey_n labour_v to_o prove_v the_o contention_n betwixt_o the_o church_n as_o he_o call_v they_o to_o proceed_v original_o from_o we_o and_o this_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o our_o own_o the_o three_o section_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o corruption_n both_o in_o faith_n and_o manner_n confess_v by_o some_o of_o we_o and_o yet_o reformation_n deny_v by_o the_o pope_n both_o which_o be_v easy_o answer_v first_o by_o ask_v what_o all_o this_o be_v to_o his_o purpose_n suppose_v it_o be_v true_a do_v this_o show_n his_o church_n to_o have_v be_v always_o visible_a or_o we_o to_o have_v be_v at_o any_o time_n not_o visible_a he_o be_v not_o to_o stand_v upon_o matter_n of_o contention_n who_o be_v cause_n or_o not_o cause_v thereof_o or_o who_o will_v have_v mend_v who_o not_o for_o the_o error_n in_o faith_n which_o he_o seem_v to_o tax_v â—s_n withal_o in_o his_o three_o section_n if_o he_o can_v prove_v they_o he_o say_v somewhat_o indeed_o though_o yet_o not_o so_o full_o to_o his_o purpose_n for_o though_o he_o prove_v we_o to_o have_v have_v some_o error_n it_o do_v not_o so_o present_o follow_v that_o they_o of_o his_o side_n have_v have_v none_o or_o that_o therefore_o their_o church_n have_v be_v ever_o visible_a there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o require_v to_o it_o then_o so_o and_o though_o he_o shall_v prove_v some_o error_n to_o have_v be_v teach_v by_o some_o particular_a man_n or_o even_o in_o some_o country_n profess_v the_o catholic_a faith_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v fail_v in_o faith_n or_o cease_v to_o be_v visible_a 2._o second_o i_o answer_v to_o his_o second_o section_n which_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o contention_n proceed_v from_o we_o which_o he_o undertake_v to_o prove_v by_o our_o own_o confession_n that_o in_o all_o this_o section_n he_o bring_v but_o four_o authority_n to_o wit_n cassander_n a_o canon_n of_o his_o english_a church_n out_o of_o the_o praeface_n to_o jewel_n work_n camden_n cite_v s._n bede_n plessy_n morney_n cite_v michael_n caesenas_n of_o all_o which_o only_a s._n bede_n be_v a_o catholic_a and_o even_o cite_v by_o the_o protestant_a camden_n and_o only_o for_o a_o story_n which_o he_o tell_v of_o one_o redwalde_a king_n of_o the_o east_n saxon_n who_o be_v first_o convert_v to_o christianity_n and_o after_o seduce_v by_o his_o wife_n have_v in_o the_o same_o church_n two_o altar_n one_o for_o christ_n religion_n another_o for_o the_o devil_n out_o of_o which_o this_o knight_n frame_v to_o himself_o a_o pretty_a fancy_n be_v desirous_a hereby_o to_o make_v man_n believe_v that_o the_o like_v happen_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o that_o some_o adore_a god_n only_o other_o fall_v to_o adore_v saint_n and_o image_n and_o the_o like_a which_o fond_a conceit_n what_o answer_n can_v it_o deserve_v for_o it_o be_v but_o the_o bare_a say_n of_o one_o that_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o he_o say_v for_o otherwise_o how_o can_v he_o possible_o say_v such_o a_o thing_n of_o himself_o without_o say_v when_o where_o or_o how_o that_o happen_v
to_o we_o or_o ever_o say_v word_n in_o proof_n that_o the_o case_n be_v the_o same_o i_o may_v with_o as_o much_o reason_n out_o of_o this_o story_n of_o redwalde_n say_v as_o much_o of_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v that_o he_o and_o his_o protestant_n have_v build_v a_o new_a church_n a_o new_a faith_n erect_v a_o altar_n against_o a_o altar_n etc._n etc._n 3._o but_o as_o i_o be_v say_v of_o his_o author_n they_o be_v not_o many_o as_o you_o see_v much_o less_o have_v they_o any_o part_n among_o catholic_n for_o cassander_n michael_n de_fw-fr caesenas_n and_o philip_n morney_n be_v in_o the_o index_n of_o forbid_a book_n camden_n and_o his_o english_a canon_n writer_n be_v protestant_n but_o which_o be_v more_o strange_a not_o a_o man_n of_o these_o such_o as_o they_o be_v that_o say_v any_o thing_n of_o that_o which_o he_o pretend_v in_o the_o title_n of_o his_o chapter_n but_o only_o cassander_n who_o after_o the_o fashion_n of_o haretique_n speak_v of_o the_o pomp_n and_o pride_n 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he_o will_v have_v those_o work_n count_v not_o pius_n his_o work_n but_o the_o work_n of_o aeneas_n silvius_n as_o he_o say_v express_o in_o the_o same_o bull._n verendum_fw-la say_v he_o council_n pius_fw-la 2._o in_o bull._n retracta_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 4._o council_n ne_fw-la talia_fw-la nostris_fw-la aliquando_fw-la successoribus_fw-la obijciantur_fw-la &_o quae_fw-la fuerunt_fw-la aeneae_n dicantur_fw-la pij_fw-la it_o be_v to_o be_v fear_v lest_o sometime_o hereafter_o such_o thing_n may_v be_v object_v to_o our_o successor_n and_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v aeneas_n his_o be_v say_v to_o be_v pius_n he_o which_o therefore_o he_o revoke_v wish_v other_o not_o to_o rely_v upon_o or_o give_v credit_n unto_o they_o in_o those_o thing_n quae_fw-la supremam_fw-la sedis_fw-la apostolicae_fw-la authoritatem_fw-la quovis_fw-la pacto_fw-la elidunt_fw-la aut_fw-la aliquid_fw-la astruunt_fw-la quod_fw-la sacrosancta_fw-la romana_fw-la non_fw-la amplectitur_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la which_o any_o 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acknowledge_v inhaerent_a justification_n which_o caluin_n deni_v though_o in_o this_o he_o err_v that_o he_o think_v that_o inhaerent_a justify_n form_n to_o be_v imperfect_a and_o insufficient_a of_o itself_o to_o make_v man_n the_o adoptive_a child_n of_o god_n without_o the_o imputative_a justice_n of_o christ_n which_o alsoe_o be_v not_o so_o much_o caluinisme_n as_o lutheranisme_n but_o be_v it_o what_o it_o will_v bellarmine_n excuse_v pighius_fw-la in_o another_o respect_n to_o wit_n because_o he_o do_v not_o obstinate_o defend_v the_o error_n as_o caluin_n or_o luther_n do_v which_o be_v the_o main_a difference_n for_o it_o be_v not_o the_o error_n but_o the_o obstinacy_n that_o make_v a_o haeretique_n and_o so_o you_o see_v sir_n knight_n you_o have_v not_o one_o true_a word_n in_o all_o this_o section_n but_o let_v we_o now_o see_v your_o next_o 5._o chap._n 5._o the_o knight_n 5._o section_n wherein_o he_o undertake_v to_o show_v how_o worldly_a policy_n and_o profitt_a hinder_v the_o reformation_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v unexcusable_a in_o themselves_o chapter_n v._n 1._o of_o this_o section_n there_o be_v not_o much_o to_o be_v say_v for_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o it_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o rave_v for_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o now_o he_o see_v trental_n mass_n diriges_fw-la requiem_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a indulgence_n purgatory_n etc._n etc._n make_v article_n of_o faith_n he_o despayr_v of_o reformation_n to_o which_o i_o need_v make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o good_a sign_n that_o he_o find_v at_o last_o the_o strength_n of_o the_o church_n so_o build_v upon_o a_o rock_n as_o no_o tempest_n or_o wind_n can_v shake_v it_o but_o rather_o that_o by_o storm_n and_o tempest_n it_o grow_v strong_a the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v strengthen_v against_o all_o haeretique_n by_o the_o great_a authority_n on_o earth_n to_o wit_n a_o general_a council_n confirm_v by_o the_o see_v apostolic_a again_o he_o despair_n when_o he_o see_v maldonat_n say_v as_o he_o tell_v we_o practise_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n against_o his_o church_n and_o doctrine_n to_o wit_n he_o that_o be_v maldonate_fw-it interpret_n a_o place_n of_o s._n john_n allow_v s._n augustin_n explication_n as_o most_o probable_a though_o he_o rather_o approve_v another_o of_o his_o own_o because_o it_o more_o cross_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o caluinist_n this_o be_v it_o that_o drive_v he_o in_o to_o despair_v alas_o poor_a sir_n humphrey_n be_v all_o your_o bravery_n come_v to_o this_o what_o your_o hart_n fail_v you_o so_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o it_o be_v no_o wonder_n such_o a_o cause_n may_v well_o make_v you_o despair_n and_o by_o your_o despair_n you_o show_v your_o doctrine_n to_o be_v false_a for_o true_a doctrine_n lose_v nothing_o by_o be_v impugn_a but_o rather_o gain_v as_o experience_n show_v in_o the_o catholic_a faith_n of_o which_o be_v verify_v the_o say_n of_o the_o prophest_n 11.7_o psal_n 11.7_o eloquia_fw-la domini_fw-la eloquia_fw-la casta_fw-la argentum_fw-la igne_fw-la examinatum_fw-la probatum_fw-la terrae_fw-la purgatum_fw-la septuplum_fw-la word_n of_o our_o lord_n be_v chaste_a word_n silver_n examine_v by_o fire_n try_v of_o the_o earth_n purge_v seven_o fold_n fire_n try_v but_o consume_v not_o gold_n but_o dross_n it_o show_v to_o be_v dross_n by_o consume_v it_o for_o maldonat_n he_o approve_v and_o commend_v s._n augustin_n explication_n but_o add_v another_o of_o his_o own_o not_o contrary_a nor_o disagree_v though_o different_a from_o it_o he_o prefer_v it_o because_o it_o be_v more_o against_o a_o haeretique_n so_o it_o be_v like_o s._n aug._n himself_o will_v also_o have_v do_v if_o he_o have_v be_v alive_a in_o these_o time_n for_o it_o be_v well_o know_v how_o in_o expound_v of_o scripture_n he_o still_o have_v regard_n to_o the_o confutation_n of_o these_o heresy_n which_o then_o reign_v and_o in_o one_o place_n he_o advise_v io._n tract_n 2._o in_o ep_n 1._o io._n that_o those_o passage_n of_o scripture_n be_v most_o careful_o observe_v and_o remember_v which_o make_v most_o against_o haeretique_n 2._o after_o this_o the_o knight_n have_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o foolish_a stuff_n which_o need_v no_o answer_n be_v but_o a_o bare_a recital_n of_o thing_n as_o for_o example_n our_o wrest_v the_o scripture_n his_o agreement_n of_o doctrine_n with_o the_o father_n nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n in_o this_o place_n and_o then_o he_o cry_v out_o against_o our_o alter_v the_o commandment_n which_o be_v before_o answer_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n prayer_n to_o saint_n and_o in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n which_o shall_v be_v afterward_o answer_v only_o in_o this_o place_n i_o note_v in_o a_o word_n this_o wise_a question_n of_o he_o what_o reason_n say_v he_o can_v be_v allege_v why_o a_o ignorant_a man_n shall_v pray_v without_o understanding_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v with_o a_o contrary_a demand_n to_o wit_n how_o a_o ignorant_a man_n that_o be_v one_o that_o want_v knowledge_n or_o understanding_n shall_v pray_v with_o understanding_n and_o so_o i_o leave_v he_o of_o the_o 6._o section_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o 6._o chap._n 6._o the_o common_a pretence_n of_o our_o adversary_n refuse_v reformation_n because_o we_o can_v assign_v the_o praecise_a time_n when_o error_n come_v in_o refute_v chapter_n vi._n 1._o here_o the_o knight_n be_v up_o again_o with_o his_o reformation_n and_o complain_v that_o we_o will_v not_o admit_v thereof_o nor_o acknowledge_v our_o doctrine_n erroneous_a unless_o he_o can_v assign_v the_o time_n and_o person_n when_o and_o by_o who_o the_o error_n come_v in_o which_o he_o seem_v to_o acknowledge_v he_o can_v do_v for_o he_o never_o go_v about_o it_o but_o only_o labour_v to_o disprove_v our_o exception_n against_o he_o by_o say_v that_o a_o man_n that_o be_v sick_a of_o a_o consumption_n ought_v not_o to_o refuse_v the_o help_n of_o the_o physician_n upon_o pretence_n that_o he_o can_v not_o tell_v the_o time_n and_o occasion_n when_o his_o body_n begin_v first_o to_o be_v distemper_v and_o out_o of_o s._n aug._n he_o say_v that_o when_o a_o man_n be_v fall_v into_o a_o pit_n and_o call_v to_o a_o passenger_n for_o help_n 19_o ep._n 19_o the_o passenger_n must_v not_o refuse_v to_o help_v he_o out_o upon_o pretence_n that_o he_o see_v not_o how_o he_o shall_v come_v to_o fall_v in_o he_o prove_v it_o also_o as_o he_o think_v out_o of_o scripture_n because_o in_o the_o parable_n of_o the_o cockle_n it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o enemy_n sow_v it_o when_o man_n be_v a_o sleep_n out_o of_o which_o he_o infer_v that_o they_o can_v not_o see_v or_o know_v he_o therefore_o he_o say_v that_o this_o defection_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o secret_a apostasy_n 13._o matth._n 13._o and_o therein_o he_o make_v the_o difference_n between_o haeresy_n and_o apostasy_n that_o haeresy_n be_v preach_v open_o so_o as_o the_o time_n and_o person_n may_v be_v name_v but_o not_o so_o this_o our_o secret_a apostasy_n haeresy_n work_v in_o the_o day_n apostasy_n in_o the_o night_n and_o then_o he_o reckon_v up_o some_o point_n as_o worship_v of_o image_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a the_o primacy_n of_o s._n peter_n and_o some_o other_o which_o he_o say_v be_v not_o so_o mean_v aâ—_n first_o as_o they_o be_v now_o practtize_v and_o believe_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n this_o be_v his_o jolly_a discourse_n frame_v in_o his_o own_o brain_n pan_n and_o sure_o ground_v as_o you_o shall_v find_v upon_o examination_n thereof_o which_o now_o i_o come_v unto_o 2._o he_o compare_v the_o creep_a in_o of_o error_n to_o the_o grow_v of_o a_o sickness_n in_o a_o man_n body_n and_o presume_v that_o because_o he_o say_v it_o we_o must_v therefore_o take_v those_o thing_n which_o he_o will_v have_v we_o for_o error_n he_o will_v present_o have_v we_o also_o fall_v to_o correct_v they_o without_o stand_v to_o examine_v far_o no_o more_o than_o a_o physician_n shall_v that_o come_v to_o a_o sick_a man_n but_o his_o comparison_n fail_v exceed_o for_o though_o there_o be_v some_o little_a likeness_n between_o the_o creep_a in_o of_o error_n and_o grow_v of_o a_o disease_n in_o a_o man_n body_n because_o both_o begin_v little_a and_o stel_o and_o increase_v by_o degree_n yet_o to_o our_o purpose_n none_o at_o all_o for_o the_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o we_o shall_v fall_v to_o cure_v the_o disease_n without_o examine_v the_o cause_n though_o by_o your_o good_a leave_n sir_n knight_n good_a physician_n use_v to_o inquire_v of_o the_o cause_n effect_n and_o other_o circumstance_n of_o the_o sickness_n which_o they_o come_v to_o cure_v but_o whether_o this_o that_o you_o say_v be_v a_o disease_n or_o sickness_n be_v so_o or_o no_o
they_o and_o their_o doctrine_n 11._o but_o because_o it_o be_v ordinary_a with_o these_o man_n to_o charge_v we_o with_o this_o same_o secret_a apostasy_n and_o defection_n though_o they_o can_v tell_v when_o nor_o how_o it_o have_v come_v i_o shall_v here_o put_v this_o knight_n in_o mind_n of_o two_o convince_a argument_n to_o the_o contrary_a bring_v by_o the_o catholic_a divine_a that_o answer_v that_o part_n of_o my_o lo_o etc._n answ_n to_o cook_n report_n ep_v dedicat_fw-la n._n 22._o etc._n etc._n cooke_n report_n before_o cite_v by_o this_o knight_n to_o convince_v the_o folly_n and_o vanity_n of_o a_o certain_a similitude_n of_o a_o wedge_n of_o gold_n that_o be_v dissolve_v and_o mingle_v with_o other_o metal_n brass_n tin_n &c_n &c_n bring_v by_o sir_n edward_n to_o prove_v the_o dissolution_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n by_o error_n and_o innovation_n just_a as_o this_o knight_n talk_v one_o of_o the_o argument_n be_v theological_a the_o other_o moral_a the_o first_o that_o if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v the_o true_a mother_n church_n which_o both_o my_o lord_n cook_n our_o knight_n and_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o they_o confess_v than_o be_v all_o the_o prediction_n &_o promise_n of_o the_o prophet_n for_o the_o greatness_n eminency_n honour_n certainty_n and_o flourish_a perpetuity_n of_o the_o say_a church_n fulfil_v in_o she_o and_o christ_n peculiar_a promise_n in_o like_a manner_n that_o he_o will_v be_v to_o the_o world_n end_n with_o she_o that_o hell_n gate_n shall_v never_o prevail_v against_o she_o etc._n etc._n be_v also_o perform_v in_o she_o for_o so_o many_o hundred_o year_n as_o they_o confess_v she_o to_o have_v continue_v in_o her_o purity_n whereof_o ensue_v that_o either_o god_n be_v not_o able_a to_o perform_v his_o promise_n or_o else_o it_o can_v be_v conceive_v without_o impiety_n that_o this_o flourish_a kingdom_n and_o queen_n of_o the_o world_n shall_v be_v so_o dissolve_v and_o mingle_v with_o brass_n tin_n copper_n shall_v be_v so_o corrupt_v with_o error_n and_o innovation_n as_o to_o fall_v away_o by_o apostasy_n this_o be_v the_o theological_a argument_n which_o may_v be_v read_v there_o more_o at_o large_a 12._o the_o moral_n be_v that_o christ_n have_v purchase_v his_o church_n at_o so_o dear_a a_o rate_n as_o be_v the_o shed_n of_o his_o blood_n and_o have_v set_v over_o it_o so_o many_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n to_o keep_v continual_a watch_n how_o be_v it_o possible_a that_o it_o shall_v fall_v away_o and_o decay_v without_o any_o one_o of_o all_o these_o watchman_fw-fr once_o open_v his_o mouth_n to_o resist_v or_o testify_v this_o change_n to_o any_o wise_a man_n this_o may_v true_o seem_v as_o it_o be_v a_o thing_n whole_o impossible_a of_o this_o also_o he_o may_v see_v a_o large_a &_o excellent_a discourse_n in_o the_o same_o place_n 13._o but_o not_o to_o detain_v myself_o long_a in_o it_o i_o will_v here_o only_o represent_v a_o consideration_n of_o tertullian_n suppose_v that_o this_o so_o impossible_a a_o thing_n shall_v happen_v go_v too_o say_v he_o be_v it_o so_o let_v all_o have_v err_v 28._o praescr_n cap._n 28._o let_v the_o apostle_n be_v deceive_v in_o his_o testimony_n which_o he_o give_v of_o the_o faith_n of_o some_o church_n be_v it_o so_o that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v not_o regard_v any_o church_n so_o as_o to_o lead_v it_o into_o truth_n though_o send_v by_o christ_n for_o this_o end_n and_o desire_v of_o the_o father_n to_o be_v the_o teacher_n of_o truth_n be_v it_o so_o that_o the_o steward_n of_o god_n the_o vicar_n of_o christ_n have_v neglect_v his_o charge_n suffer_v the_o church_n to_o understand_v otherwise_o to_o believe_v otherwise_o then_o he_o that_o be_v christ_n preach_v by_o his_o apostle_n what_o be_v it_o likely_a that_o so_o many_o and_o so_o great_a shall_v err_v all_o in_o one_o belief_n among_o many_o several_a event_n there_o be_v not_o one_o issue_n mark_v here_o one_o steward_n of_o god_n household_n one_o vicar_n of_o christ_n to_o who_o office_n it_o belong_v to_o see_v that_o particular_a church_n do_v not_o teach_v nor_o believe_v otherwise_o then_o they_o be_v teach_v by_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o apostle_n the_o error_n of_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n must_v have_v be_v several_a but_o that_o which_o be_v find_v one_o and_o the_o same_o among_o or_o with_o many_o be_v not_o error_n but_o a_o thing_n deliver_v therefore_o may_v any_o man_n dare_v to_o say_v that_o they_o who_o deliver_v it_o do_v err_v hitherto_o be_v tertullian_n very_a word_n in_o which_o beside_o that_o every_o sentence_n be_v a_o weighty_a argument_n of_o moral_a impossibility_n of_o the_o church_n err_v which_o yet_o for_o disputation_n sake_n he_o let_v pass_v for_o possible_a he_o have_v that_o strong_a conclude_a impossibility_n that_o so_o many_o several_a church_n in_o every_o country_n so_o many_o several_a man_n shall_v all_o agree_v in_o the_o same_o error_n out_o of_o which_o unity_n he_o gather_v it_o to_o be_v a_o truth_n no_o error_n therefore_o let_v this_o knight_n and_o all_o his_o babble_a minister_n if_o they_o do_v not_o mean_v to_o be_v count_v whole_o out_o of_o their_o wit_n for_o evermore_o hold_v their_o peace_n without_o accuse_v the_o catholic_a church_n which_o contain_v in_o itself_o so_o many_o church_n so_o many_o kingdom_n 7._o chap._n 7._o so_o many_o million_o of_o people_n all_o agree_v in_o the_o same_o faith_n of_o error_n and_o apostasy_n of_o the_o 7._o section_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v thus_o the_o pedigree_n of_o the_o romish_a faith_n draw_v down_o from_o the_o ancient_a haeretique_n and_o the_o protestant_a faith_n derive_v from_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n chapter_n vii_o 1._o in_o this_o section_n sir_n humphrey_n you_o undertake_v a_o great_a task_n which_o if_o you_o perform_v according_a as_o you_o promise_v eris_fw-la mihi_fw-la magnus_fw-la apollo_n if_o you_o do_v not_o than_o a_o man_n may_v say_v to_o you_o with_o out_o offence_n magnus_fw-la es_fw-la ardelis_fw-la you_o undertake_v to_o derive_v we_o by_o succession_n in_o person_n and_o doctrine_n from_o ancient_a heretic_n and_o yourself_o from_o the_o apostle_n which_o how_o true_o you_o have_v perform_v i_o be_o in_o this_o chapter_n to_o examine_v you_o begin_v with_o latin_a service_n and_o prayer_n in_o a_o strange_a tongue_n which_o you_o say_v out_o of_o one_o wolphius_n a_o lutheran_n heretic_n come_v into_o the_o church_n by_o pope_n vitalian_n about_o the_o year_n 666._o whereof_o you_o make_v a_o mystery_n note_v thus_o in_o the_o margin_n numerus_fw-la bestiae_fw-la apoc._n 13._o the_o number_n of_o the_o beast_n from_o he_o you_o skip_v to_o the_o heretic_n osseni_fw-la who_o teach_v as_o you_o say_v out_o of_o epiphanius_n that_o there_o be_v no_o need_n to_o make_v a_o prayer_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n from_o they_o you_o go_v yet_o high_o to_o the_o apostle_n time_n wherein_o you_o say_v out_o of_o s._n ambrose_n that_o there_o be_v certain_a 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only_o whither_o this_o particular_a host_n be_v right_o consecrate_v manifest_o suppose_v that_o if_o that_o be_v christ_n be_v true_o there_o three_o that_o other_o condition_n or_o word_n adoro_fw-la te_fw-la si_fw-la tu_fw-la es_fw-la christus_fw-la which_o he_o will_v make_v a_o man_n believe_v be_v speak_v by_o adrian_n of_o the_o most_o b._n sacrament_n be_v speak_v of_o the_o devil_n take_v upon_o he_o the_o shape_n of_o christ_n 6._o now_o what_o gross_a delusion_n be_v this_o what_o excuse_n can_v you_o find_v for_o it_o sir_n humphrey_n but_o suppose_v adrian_n have_v err_v in_o this_o or_o in_o any_o other_o particular_a point_n either_o ignorant_o as_o a_o catholic_a may_v or_o wilful_o as_o only_a haeretique_n do_v do_v it_o follow_v that_o he_o agree_v with_o you_o in_o all_o other_o or_o that_o hee-counteth_a your_o faith_n ancient_a universal_a certain_a or_o safe_a noe_o such_o matter_n nay_o how_o on_o the_o contrary_n he_o abhor_v &_o detest_v your_o doctrine_n as_o 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est_fw-la &_o in_o maiori_fw-la iniquus_fw-la est_fw-la he_o that_o wicked_a in_o a_o little_a be_v wicked_a in_o a_o great_a for_o costerus_n do_v not_o say_v that_o it_o do_v not_o come_v in_o by_o the_o commandment_n of_o the_o bishop_n but_o not_o so_o much_o by_o that_o as_o by_o the_o people_n use_n and_o practice_n 9_o now_o what_o be_v this_o to_o your_o purpose_n where_o be_v costerus_n his_o testimony_n for_o the_o antiquity_n universality_n certainty_n and_o safety_n of_o your_o protestant_a religion_n be_v not_o that_o whole_a book_n write_v only_o to_o maintain_v the_o catholic_a roman_a faith_n in_o the_o point_n now_o adays_o in_o controversy_n and_o to_o condemn_v the_o contrary_a of_o vanity_n folly_n and_o error_n how_o then_o can_v he_o think_v it_o self_n but_o because_o i_o will_v not_o stand_v to_o deduce_v it_o by_o way_n of_o argument_n i_o will_v only_o cite_v one_o place_n direct_o opposite_a to_o the_o scope_n of_o this_o your_o section_n where_o he_o say_v that_o only_a the_o child_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o cost_n enchir_o cap._n 2._o n._n 3._o by_o which_o church_n he_o mean_v the_o catholic_a apostolic_a roman_a church_n as_o he_o often_o declare_v himself_o merit_v increase_v of_o grace_n and_o aeternal_a life_n that_o they_o only_o be_v grateful_a &_o please_v to_o god_n they_o only_o the_o child_n and_o friend_n of_o god_n they_o only_o have_v communion_n with_o the_o saint_n and_o merit_n of_o saint_n they_o only_o be_v adorn_v with_o true_a and_o christian_a virtue_n they_o only_o have_v the_o promise_n and_o certain_a expectation_n of_o aeternal_a life_n which_o say_v the_o be_v great_a and_o most_o true_a privilege_n for_o out_o of_o the_o church_n nothing_o of_o all_o this_o be_v find_v no_o holiness_n no_o christian_a virtue_n no_o work_n please_v to_o god_n no_o merit_n no_o hope_n of_o salvation_n thus_o he_o now_o good_a sir_n knight_n be_v not_o here_o good_a comfort_n for_o you_o be_v you_o in_o costerus_n his_o 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every_o of_o the_o faithful_a aught_o by_o the_o precept_n of_o god_n 1._o sess_n 21._o can_n 1._o or_o necessity_n of_o salvation_n to_o receive_v both_o species_n or_o kind_n of_o the_o most_o holy_a sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n si_fw-mi quis_fw-la dixerit_fw-la ex_fw-la dei_fw-la praecepto_fw-la vel_fw-la necessitate_v salutis_fw-la omnes_fw-la &_o singulos_fw-la christi_fw-la fideles_fw-la utramque_fw-la speciem_fw-la sanctissimi_fw-la eucharistiae_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la sumere_fw-la debere_fw-la anathema_n sit_v the_o like_a have_v the_o council_n alsoe_o of_o constance_n so_o plain_a 174._o pag._n 174._o that_o you_o yourself_o afterward_o confess_v that_o the_o one_o do_v accurse_v the_o other_o accuse_v all_o for_o haeretique_n that_o deny_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o one_o kind_n as_o you_o do_v if_o then_o we_o not_o only_o write_v against_o your_o doctrine_n as_o against_o a_o haeresy_n as_o may_v appear_v by_o all_o our_o controversy_n and_o school_n divine_v and_o 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brag_v for_o from_o the_o time_n you_o have_v begin_v to_o be_v against_o it_o you_o be_v not_o of_o it_o and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o 18._o now_o for_o these_o point_n of_o doctrine_n by_o you_o name_v wherein_o you_o agree_v with_o we_o and_o which_o you_o have_v no_o succession_n of_o your_o own_o you_o can_v have_v it_o by_o any_o other_o mean_v but_o by_o and_o from_o we_o which_o therefore_o be_v we_o and_o not_o you_o we_o do_v not_o question_v you_o for_o your_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n but_o for_o these_o other_o point_n wherein_o you_o disagree_v as_o when_o you_o deny_v the_o doctrine_n declare_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n when_o you_o deny_v our_o seven_o sacrament_n deny_v the_o truth_n of_o one_o of_o these_o two_o sacrament_n to_o wit_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o sauiour_n body_n &_o blood_n &_o necessity_n &_o efficacy_n of_o the_o other_o to_o wit_n baptism_n deny_v our_o canon_n of_o scripture_n our_o number_n of_o counsel_n our_o tradition_n 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which_o you_o give_v it_o be_v the_o form_n and_o essence_n of_o your_o religion_n so_o long_o then_o as_o that_o be_v new_a your_o religion_n be_v new_a neither_o can_v you_o say_v the_o same_o of_o our_o point_n define_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o say_v by_o ask_v where_o our_o church_n wasâ—_n where_o our_o trent_n doctrine_n and_o article_n of_o the_o roman_a creed_n be_v receive_v de_fw-la fide_fw-la before_o luther_n this_o you_o can_v likewise_o say_v to_o we_o for_o the_o define_n make_v not_o the_o doctrine_n new_a but_o bind_v man_n by_o authority_n of_o a_o council_n to_o believe_v what_o they_o do_v believe_v plain_o by_o tradition_n 32._o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 32._o as_o vincentius_n lerinensis_n say_v that_o the_o church_n by_o the_o decree_n of_o her_o counsel_n have_v do_v nothing_o else_o but_o that_o what_o she_o have_v before_o receive_v by_o tradition_n only_o she_o shall_v also_o by_o writing_n consign_v to_o posterity_n nec_fw-la 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to_o cook_n rep_v ep_v dedicat_fw-la nu_fw-la 20._o 20._o my_o lord_n cook_n show_v himself_o somewhat_o wise_a when_o ask_v himself_o the_o question_n which_o we_o ask_v you_o to_o wit_n where_o your_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n he_o answer_v it_o make_v no_o great_a matter_n where_o it_o be_v so_o he_o be_v certain_a it_o be_v confess_v thereby_o that_o his_o church_n be_v indeed_o invisible_a but_o yet_o in_o be_v which_o because_o it_o seem_v hard_a to_o persuade_v any_o man_n he_o bring_v a_o fine_a similitude_n of_o a_o wedge_n of_o gold_n dissolve_v and_o mix_v with_o brass_n tin_n and_o other_o metal_n which_o he_o say_v do_v not_o therefore_o loose_v his_o nature_n but_o remain_v gold_n though_o we_o can_v not_o determine_v in_o what_o part_n of_o the_o mass_n it_o be_v contain_v this_o be_v somewhat_o more_o like_a for_o a_o man_n by_o such_o a_o similitude_n to_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v that_o a_o church_n may_v subsist_v invisible_o for_o the_o which_o nevertheless_o 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first_o make_v she_o visible_a which_o be_v that_o we_o desire_v and_o so_o sir_n you_o have_v spin_a a_o fair_a thread_n you_o will_v fain_o make_v your_o church_n visible_a before_o luther_n and_o you_o make_v it_o invisible_a you_o look_v well_o about_o you_o mean_v while_n now_o that_o which_o you_o say_v next_o of_o take_v away_o the_o 3._o creed_n which_o you_o profess_v two_o sacrament_n 4._o counsel_n and_o 22._o book_n of_o scripture_n without_o which_o our_o church_n will_v be_v a_o poor_a senseless_a carcase_n be_v most_o foolish_a for_o who_o do_v speak_v of_o take_v they_o away_o who_o do_v say_v they_o be_v you_o you_o will_v not_o say_v yourself_o but_o you_o have_v they_o from_o we_o what_o then_o do_v you_o talk_v of_o take_v they_o away_o and_o whereas_o you_o be_v bold_a to_o say_v that_o we_o now_o style_v they_o chaff_n and_o new_a heresy_n it_o be_v to_o shameless_a a_o untruth_n for_o any_o man_n to_o tell_v but_o yourself_o and_o therefore_o deserve_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v sir_n humphrey_n lind'_v you_o understand_v my_o meaning_n sir_n 21._o one_o little_a thing_n more_o there_o be_v in_o this_o section_n which_o be_v that_o whereas_o some_o of_o we_o have_v term_v your_o religion_n negative_a in_o regard_n it_o consist_v most_o in_o denial_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o we_o teach_v as_o they_o may_v well_o call_v it_o you_o will_v retort_v that_o term_n upon_o we_o because_o we_o deny_v many_o thing_n which_o you_o affirm_v but_o this_o be_v not_o a_o matter_n of_o any_o moment_n for_o they_o who_o call_v your_o religion_n negative_a do_v not_o mean_v that_o you_o do_v not_o teach_v any_o positive_a erroneous_a point_n but_o that_o most_o of_o your_o doctrine_n i_o mean_v that_o which_o be_v proper_o you_o not_o take_v from_o we_o be_v negative_a and_o even_o those_o affirmative_a proposition_n which_o you_o teach_v if_o you_o teach_v any_o be_v but_o contradiction_n of_o other_o thing_n which_o we_o teach_v be_v not_o or_o may_v not_o be_v do_v in_o which_o respect_n they_o may_v be_v also_o call_v negative_a but_o for_o we_o it_o be_v nothing_o so_o for_o it_o consist_v of_o positive_a point_n deliver_v not_o by_o way_n of_o opposition_n or_o denial_n for_o it_o be_v before_o all_o haeresy_n though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o it_o have_v many_o negative_a proposition_n and_o precept_n beside_o out_o of_o every_o positive_a point_n a_o man_n may_v infer_v the_o contrary_a negative_a which_o yet_o make_v not_o that_o a_o negative_a as_o you_o do_v in_o some_o of_o those_o proposition_n which_o you_o allege_v for_o example_n you_o make_v this_o a_o negative_a point_n that_o we_o deny_v the_o substance_n of_o bread_n to_o remain_v after_o consecration_n whereas_o that_o be_v only_o a_o negative_a infer_v out_o of_o this_o positive_a that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n which_o be_v our_o doctrine_n &_o 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such_o gross_a falsitye_n than_o i_o do_v not_o say_v honesty_n but_o even_a shame_n will_v give_v a_o man_n leave_v but_o which_o be_v most_o to_o be_v wonder_v you_o have_v labour_v to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o your_o church_n by_o such_o similitude_n as_o prove_v the_o contrary_a which_o be_v not_o any_o praise_n of_o goodness_n for_o you_o intend_v it_o not_o but_o a_o argument_n of_o the_o necessity_n whereto_o you_o be_v drive_v by_o the_o badness_n of_o your_o cause_n and_o a_o dispraise_n of_o your_o judgement_n in_o that_o you_o see_v not_o what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o 9_o section_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n touch_v the_o protestant_n and_o the_o roman_a faith_n in_o the_o particular_a chapter_n ix_o 1._o our_o knight_n have_v promise_v to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o his_o faith_n and_o novelty_n of_o we_o in_o general_n by_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o own_o author_n &_o church_n and_o perform_v it_o brave_o forsooth_o as_o have_v be_v show_v in_o the_o former_a chapter_n he_o profess_v now_o in_o this_o nine_o section_n 9_o chap._n 9_o to_o prove_v the_o same_o in_o like_a sort_n out_o of_o our_o author_n in_o diverse_a particular_a point_n as_o justification_n by_o faith_n only_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o supper_n and_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n private_a mass_n etc._n etc._n treat_v every_o one_o here_o ex_fw-la professo_fw-la and_o several_o in_o distinct_a paragraphe_n who_o method_n i_o shall_v also_o follow_v in_o answer_v of_o he_o §._o 1._o of_o justification_n by_o faith_n only_o examine_v 1._o this_o point_n of_o his_o protestant_a justification_n by_o faith_n only_o the_o knight_n prove_v as_o he_o say_v out_o of_o a_o book_n publish_v in_o anselmes_n time_n which_o be_v call_v ordo_fw-la baptizandi_fw-la &_o visitandi_fw-la &c._n &c._n of_o which_o he_o cit_v two_o or_o three_o several_a edition_n to_o fill_v up_o the_o margin_n with_o 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right_o understand_v with_o the_o catholic_a faith_n which_o we_o now_o profess_v for_o here_o be_v nothing_o but_o what_o i_o show_v before_o out_o of_o bellarmine_n 3._o lib._n 5._o the_o iustif_a cap._n 7._o prop._n 3._o to_o wit_n that_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o our_o own_o justice_n that_o be_v whether_o we_o be_v just_a or_o no_o and_o for_o the_o peril_n of_o vain_a glory_n it_o be_v most_o safe_a to_o put_v our_o whole_a confidence_n in_o the_o sole_a mercy_n and_o benignity_n of_o god._n which_o word_n sole_n do_v import_v confidence_n in_o that_o and_o in_o nothing_o else_o with_o which_o it_o may_v stand_v very_o well_o that_o man_n in_o the_o favour_n and_o grace_n of_o god_n may_v do_v work_v meritorious_a of_o increase_n of_o grace_n and_o glory_n which_o be_v the_o controversy_n between_o we_o and_o haeretique_n for_o man_n may_v be_v in_o grace_n and_o not_o know_v it_o they_o may_v do_v those_o good_a work_n and_o yet_o not_o know_v that_o their_o 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not_o write_v which_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v know_v by_o some_o in_o the_o church_n though_o not_o by_o all_o now_o for_o the_o curse_n which_o you_o be_v content_a shall_v light_v upon_o you_o if_o we_o show_v the_o number_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n to_o have_v be_v the_o belief_n of_o the_o church_n for_o a_o thousand_o year_n after_o christ_n be_v not_o too_o forward_o to_o draw_v malediction_n upon_o yourself_o it_o will_v come_v fast_o enough_o to_o your_o cost_n it_o be_v a_o heavy_a thing_n than_o you_o be_v aware_a of_o to_o have_v the_o curse_n of_o a_o mother_n and_o such_o a_o mother_n as_o the_o church_n which_o do_v not_o curse_v without_o cause_n nor_o out_o of_o passion_n for_o as_o the_o scripture_n say_v maledictio_fw-la matris_fw-la eradicat_fw-la fundamenta_fw-la 3.11_o eccle._n 3.11_o the_o malediction_n of_o a_o mother_n do_v root_n out_o the_o foundation_n 4._o have_v thus_o praeface_v against_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n you_o come_v 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it_o as_o you_o translate_v be_v far_o otherwise_o to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v but_o only_o two_o sacrament_n in_o all_o for_o first_o you_o leave_v out_o the_o demonstrative_a pronoune_n haec_fw-la make_v the_o speech_n more_o general_a as_o if_o bessarion_n do_v say_v there_o be_v but_o two_o sacrament_n whereas_o he_o do_v not_o speak_v any_o thing_n that_o way_n in_o these_o word_n of_o the_o number_n of_o sacrament_n in_o general_a but_o restrain_v his_o speech_n to_o these_o two_o in_o particular_a which_o rather_o import_v that_o there_o be_v other_o sacrament_n for_o if_o one_o shall_v say_v these_o two_o man_n come_v this_o way_n or_o these_o two_o horse_n belong_v to_o i_o will_v not_o any_o man_n gather_v that_o there_o be_v more_o man_n beside_o those_o two_o that_o come_v this_o way_n and_o more_o horse_n beside_o those_o two_o that_o i_o say_v belong_v to_o i_o for_o otherwise_o it_o be_v needless_a to_o add_v this_o determine_n or_o distinguish_v pronoune_n these_o 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which_o yet_o you_o do_v in_o such_o a_o manner_n that_o i_o can_v say_v but_o that_o a_o wary_a &_o careful_a reader_n may_v pick_v out_o or_o at_o least_o guess_v at_o bessarion_n true_a meaning_n but_o that_o be_v your_o cunning_n to_o have_v a_o double_a sense_n the_o one_o to_o deceive_v the_o simple_a and_o another_o to_o excuse_v yourself_o against_o the_o objection_n of_o the_o learned_a but_o you_o shall_v remember_v sir_n hum._n there_o be_v a_o woe_n in_o store_n for_o such_o cunning_a man_n 14._o eccles_n 2_o 14._o vae_fw-la duplici_fw-la cord_n &_o labijs_fw-la scelestis_fw-la et_fw-la manibus_fw-la malefacientibus_fw-la &_o peccatori_fw-la terram_fw-la ingredienti_fw-la duabus_fw-la vijs_fw-la woe_n to_o the_o double_a of_o hart_n and_o wicked_a lip_n &_o hand_n ill_o do_v &_o to_o a_o sinner_n go_v on_o the_o earth_n two_o way_n in_o which_o last_o word_n of_o go_v two_o way_n be_v touch_v this_o your_o cunning_n in_o this_o place_n though_o if_o you_o examine_v your_o 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word_n he_o prove_v it_o by_o the_o example_n of_o other_o sacrament_n thus_o conse_n bessar_n de_fw-fr verb._n conse_n hunc_fw-la modum_fw-la &_o apostoli_fw-la a_o saluatore_fw-la ut_fw-la crâ—dendum_fw-la est_fw-la &_o ab_fw-la apostolis_n sanct_n patres_fw-la postea_fw-la sumente_n in_o singulis_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la sacramentis_fw-la quemadmodum_fw-la materiam_fw-la propriam_fw-la sine_fw-la qua_fw-la nullo_n modo_fw-la fieret_fw-la quod_fw-la proponitur_fw-la ita_fw-la etiam_fw-la propriam_fw-la formam_fw-la statuerunt_fw-la quod_fw-la manifestum_fw-la est_fw-la si_fw-la quis_fw-la ad_fw-la chrismatis_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la mentem_fw-la converterit_fw-la this_o manner_n the_o apostle_n receive_v from_o our_o saviour_n as_o it_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v and_o our_o holy_a father_n from_o they_o as_o in_o each_o sacrament_n they_o have_v appoint_v a_o proper_a matter_n without_o which_o that_o can_v be_v do_v which_o be_v purpose_v so_o also_o a_o certain_a form_n which_o be_v 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way_n will_v you_o think_v they_o make_v you_o a_o material_a god_n philo_n authority_n than_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n 7._o for_o the_o jew_n now_o adays_o who_o sir_n edwin_n sands_n say_v be_v avert_v from_o the_o christian_a faith_n by_o have_v the_o crucifix_n show_v unto_o they_o i_o answer_v it_o be_v no_o wonder_n they_o that_o can_v endure_v christ_n how_o shall_v they_o endure_v his_o cross_n s._n paul_n preach_v christ_n crucify_v though_o he_o be_v a_o scandal_n or_o stumble_a block_n to_o their_o ancestor_n and_o must_v we_o leave_v to_o preach_v he_o though_o their_o child_n stumble_v at_o the_o same_o block_n noe_o sir_n humphrey_n we_o must_v not_o cease_v to_o preach_v christ_n nor_o can_v we_o preach_v he_o without_o his_o cross_n they_o go_v both_o together_o no_o man_n can_v love_v he_o and_o hate_v his_o cross_n nor_o hate_v his_o cross_n and_o love_v he_o wherefore_o you_o in_o allege_v their_o hate_n of_o the_o cross_n as_o a_o argument_n why_o you_o 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lib._n 1._o cap_n 5._o euseb_n eua._n procop._n adr._n 1._o damasc_n const_n porphyragenitus_n â—onar_fw-mi nicep_v pho._n niceph._n call_n one_o be_v that_o which_o he_o send_v to_o abgarus_n king_n of_o edessa_n who_o have_v desire_v to_o see_v he_o which_o request_n of_o he_o our_o saviour_n do_v in_o some_o sort_n satisfy_v by_o send_v he_o his_o picture_n another_o be_v that_o of_o veronica_n which_o he_o make_v with_o wipe_v his_o face_n as_o he_o be_v carry_v his_o cross_n and_o give_v to_o that_o devout_a woman_n that_o take_v so_o much_o pity_n of_o he_o as_o to_o give_v he_o a_o handkerchief_n at_o that_o time_n to_o wipe_v his_o face_n all_o bedew_v with_o blood_n and_o sweat_n a_o three_o be_v one_o which_o nicodemus_n give_v to_o gamaliel_n all_o which_o be_v testify_v not_o only_o by_o grave_n and_o learned_a author_n but_o i_o may_v say_v even_o by_o god_n himself_o though_o not_o inscripture_n yet_o by_o great_a and_o wonderful_a miracle_n whereof_o there_o can_v be_v 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decree_n that_o the_o holy_a image_n of_o ss_z shall_v be_v have_v in_o church_n &_o worship_v with_o great_a veneration_n be_v to_o ignorant_a people_n in_o place_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n whereto_o also_o frankincense_n be_v offer_v and_o taper_n be_v light_v and_o there_o add_v 2._o or_o 3._o counsel_n more_o decree_a the_o same_o again_o he_o conclude_v thus_o ecquis_fw-la igitur_fw-la tam_fw-la dissolutus_fw-la tantaque_fw-la audacia_fw-la praeditus_fw-la est_fw-la qui_fw-la velit_fw-la possitue_a dubitare_fw-la seu_fw-la aliter_fw-la somniare_fw-la ne_fw-la dicam_fw-la sentire_fw-la vel_fw-la cogitare_fw-la de_fw-la imaginum_fw-la cultu_fw-la ac_fw-la demum_fw-la sit_fw-la tot_fw-la long_o sanctissimorum_fw-la patrum_fw-la decreto_fw-la constitutum_fw-la what_o man_n be_v there_o therefore_o so_o dissolute_a and_o endue_v with_o so_o much_o boldness_n who_o will_n or_o can_v doubt_v or_o otherwise_o dream_n that_o i_o may_v not_o say_v judge_n or_o think_v of_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n then_o at_o last_o have_v be_v approve_v by_o the_o decree_n of_o so_o many_o most_o holy_a father_n thus_o far_o polydore_n to_o who_o demand_n why_o may_v not_o i_o answer_v that_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v be_v the_o man_n so_o dissolute_a and_o audacious_a that_o dare_v not_o only_a dream_n but_o wake_v with_o all_o his_o wit_n and_o sense_n that_o he_o have_v about_o he_o and_o speak_v and_o write_v dare_v i_o say_v not_o only_o doubt_v of_o but_o absolute_o deny_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o not_o only_o this_o but_o even_o to_o bring_v thou_o o_o polydore_n virgil_n to_o witness_v with_o he_o against_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o all_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n condemn_v the_o same_o what_o will_v this_o author_n say_v to_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n if_o he_o be_v alive_a to_o see_v himself_o abuse_v by_o you_o and_o which_o be_v yet_o more_o even_o after_o dr._n white_n be_v convict_v of_o this_o dissolutenes_n and_o audaciousnes_n yet_o you_o will_v be_v at_o it_o again_o hereby_o a_o man_n may_v see_v there_o need_v no_o other_o confutation_n but_o only_a right_n cite_v of_o your_o own_o author_n 17._o for_o peresius_n his_o word_n be_v nothing_o against_o we_o for_o they_o touch_v only_o upon_o a_o school_n point_n whether_o the_o picture_n be_v to_o be_v adore_v with_o the_o same_o worship_n as_o the_o prototype_n or_o thing_n represent_v or_o with_o a_o inferior_a worship_n the_o former_a opinion_n only_o he_o deni_v because_o say_v he_o there_o be_v neither_o proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n of_o the_o church_n common_a consent_n of_o father_n or_o determination_n of_o a_o general_a council_n which_o very_a say_n of_o he_o be_v enough_o to_o condemn_v you_o who_o will_v not_o acknowledge_v sufficient_a authority_n in_o tradition_n father_n or_o council_n to_o believe_v a_o thing_n which_o you_o like_v not_o but_o to_o make_v it_o plain_o appear_v how_o much_o you_o wrong_v peresius_n in_o bring_v he_o against_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n i_o will_v bring_v a_o place_n 2._o leaf_n before_o that_o which_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o he_o it_o be_v this_o manifest_a habes_fw-la etc._n etc._n imag_n peres_n de_fw-fr tradit_fw-la cap._n the_o imag_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o the_o use_n and_o worship_n of_o image_n have_v be_v universal_o in_o the_o church_n from_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o that_o the_o disesteem_v of_o they_o begin_v from_o forlorn_a and_o infamous_a man_n 500_o year_n after_o the_o church_n be_v plant_v and_o true_o if_o the_o worship_n and_o reverence_n be_v do_v devout_o and_o sincere_o this_o institution_n be_v holy_a and_o profitable_a which_o both_o apostolic_a tradition_n have_v introduce_v the_o use_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n affirm_v the_o consent_n of_o very_o famous_a and_o general_a counsel_n both_o in_o the_o east_n and_o west_n be_v add_v thereto_o which_o also_o even_o natural_a reason_n do_v dictate_v thus_o far_o be_v peresius_n his_o own_o word_n whereby_o any_o man_n may_v see_v whether_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o deal_v well_o with_o he_o or_o not_o to_o pretend_v his_o authority_n against_o our_o use_n and_o worship_n of_o image_n pp_n agobard_fw-mi de_fw-mi pick_v &_o imaginib_fw-la in_o bibl_a pp_n 18._o now_o for_o agobardus_n who_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v great_a acount_n of_o if_o you_o consider_v he_o a_o little_a better_a you_o will_v find_v little_a cause_n he_o write_v indeed_o a_o book_n de_fw-fr picturis_fw-la &_o imaginibus_fw-la the_o whole_a drift_n whereof_o be_v only_o against_o the_o idolatrical_a use_n or_o abuse_v of_o image_n against_o which_o he_o speak_v very_o much_o by_o occasion_n of_o some_o abuse_n in_o his_o time_n as_o it_o be_v meet_v he_o and_o every_o good_a man_n shall_v and_o for_o the_o same_o end_n he_o bring_v many_o authoritye_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n all_o which_o speak_v plain_o against_o idolatry_n and_o likewise_o he_o bring_v that_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o eliberis_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o he_o that_o no_o picture_n shall_v be_v paint_v on_o the_o wall_n understand_v it_o in_o the_o same_o sense_n which_o i_o allege_v in_o my_o second_o answer_n to_o that_o canon_n before_o to_o wit_n for_o avoid_v superstition_n in_o some_o young_a and_o unexperienced_a christian_n convert_v from_o gentility_n but_o for_o those_o word_n which_o follow_v in_o your_o citation_n of_o he_o to_o wit_n these_o there_o be_v no_o example_n in_o all_o the_o scripture_n or_o father_n for_o adoration_n of_o image_n i_o do_v not_o find_v they_o in_o he_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a of_o that_o they_o be_v not_o join_v with_o the_o former_a as_o you_o here_o join_v they_o thus_o indeed_o he_o say_v in_o a_o certain_a place_n habuerunt_fw-la antiqui_fw-la sanctorum_fw-la imagine_v vel_fw-la pictas_fw-la vel_fw-la sculptas_fw-la sed_fw-la causa_fw-la historiae_fw-la ad_fw-la
wind_n indulgence_n §._o 8._o 1._o we_o be_v now_o come_v to_o the_o last_o §_o of_o this_o chapter_n which_o be_v indulgence_n which_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n begin_v after_o your_o wont_a manner_n with_o the_o ten_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n as_o you_o call_v it_o and_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n teach_v that_o christ_n have_v leave_v that_o power_n of_o grant_v indulgence_n in_o his_o church_n and_o that_o the_o church_n have_v use_v the_o same_o from_o most_o ancient_a time_n and_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v to_o be_v retain_v in_o the_o church_n condemn_v also_o whosoever_o shall_v term_v they_o unprofitable_a or_o deny_v authority_n in_o the_o church_n to_o grant_v they_o which_o doctrine_n you_o allow_v not_o of_o as_o not_o be_v agreeable_a to_o christ_n institution_n nor_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a father_n you_o confess_v indeed_o that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v a_o power_n in_o the_o bishop_n to_o remit_v or_o mitigate_v the_o severity_n of_o the_o punishment_n which_o by_o the_o canon_n man_n be_v to_o undergo_v for_o certain_a great_a crime_n which_o mitigation_n you_o allow_v to_o have_v be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o indulgence_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n you_o take_v that_o relaxation_n of_o the_o incestuous_a corithian_a by_o s_n paul_n thus_o far_o you_o go_v well_o with_o we_o but_o now_o you_o say_v the_o indulgence_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n &_o his_o saint_n term_v the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n which_o treasure_n you_o say_v be_v apply_v to_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o leave_v to_o the_o discretion_n of_o every_o bishop_n in_o his_o diocese_n be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o this_o not_o only_o for_o some_o few_o year_n in_o this_o life_n but_o for_o many_o thousand_o in_o purgatory_n after_o death_n 2._o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n which_o though_o you_o seem_v to_o take_v to_o be_v a_o very_a good_a and_o substantial_a one_o yet_o be_v it_o nothing_o so_o for_o first_o it_o neither_o prove_v any_o thing_n nor_o overthrow_v our_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n though_o that_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o difference_n between_o our_o indulgence_n of_o these_o time_n and_o those_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o use_n of_o those_o time_n be_v not_o our_o only_a ground_n for_o this_o point_n of_o doctrine_n but_o we_o have_v other_o both_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n &_o undoubted_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o above_o a_o thousand_o year_n at_o least_o and_o this_o of_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n in_o relaxation_n of_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o penitential_a canon_n be_v not_o urge_v by_o we_o at_o lest_o by_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n as_o a_o evident_a convince_a proof_n but_o only_o as_o coniectural_a and_o probable_a q._n suar._n to_o 3._o in_o 3._o pars_fw-la disp_n 49_o sect_n 2._o n._n 4.5_o &_o sâ—_n q._n it_o be_v not_o then_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o you_o to_o stand_v so_o much_o urge_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o indulgence_n of_o our_o time_n and_o those_o of_o other_o former_a time_n as_o if_o by_o do_v that_o you_o have_v do_v all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v do_v 3._o but_o beside_o to_o answer_n second_o you_o have_v not_o do_v even_o that_o for_o you_o do_v but_o only_o make_v show_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v man_n think_v they_o be_v different_a without_o show_v wherein_o the_o difference_n consist_v nay_o even_o out_o of_o that_o which_o you_o grant_v of_o those_o ancient_a indulgence_n you_o may_v be_v disprove_v in_o what_o you_o deny_v of_o we_o for_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o very_a word_n indulgence_n you_o grant_v it_o to_o have_v be_v in_o use_n in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v we_o be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n which_o though_o allege_v as_o a_o difference_n yet_o do_v i_o not_o see_v wherein_o the_o difference_n be_v for_o they_o be_v a_o absolution_n because_o it_o be_v a_o unloose_n or_o untie_n for_o whereas_o by_o the_o canon_n for_o certain_a great_a crime_n man_n be_v bind_v or_o tie_v to_o undergo_v such_o penance_n for_o example_n to_o fast_o with_o bread_n and_o water_n so_o many_o day_n in_o a_o week_n for_o so_o many_o month_n or_o year_n not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n and_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n and_o the_o like_a by_o this_o indulgence_n or_o pardon_n which_o you_o grant_v they_o be_v untie_v or_o loose_v from_o so_o much_o or_o so_o little_a as_o by_o that_o pardon_n they_o be_v free_v from_o and_o so_o be_v it_o in_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o 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most_o strong_a argument_n of_o antiquity_n that_o it_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n time_n out_o of_o mind_n and_o of_o consent_n that_o no_o man_n be_v find_v to_o have_v speak_v against_o it_o but_o only_o know_v haeretique_n such_o as_o the_o waldense_n who_o be_v the_o first_o impugner_n of_o indulgence_n 1_o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr indulg_n cap._n 1_o therefore_o you_o be_v still_o out_o of_o your_o bias_n when_o you_o think_v to_o prove_v the_o novelty_n of_o our_o doctrine_n by_o our_o want_n of_o testimony_n of_o antiquity_n for_o though_o we_o have_v such_o testimony_n for_o superaboundant_a proof_n yet_o it_o be_v enough_o that_o such_o a_o thing_n be_v thaught_v and_o practise_v in_o catholic_a church_n without_o any_o memory_n when_o it_o begin_v for_o that_o be_v s._n augustine_n rule_n continual_o to_o prove_v a_o thing_n not_o only_o ancient_a but_o even_o apostolical_a 10._o but_o now_o to_o come_v to_o your_o author_n in_o particular_a 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name_n s._n ambrose_n s._n hilar._n s._n aug._n and_o s._n hierome_n only_o for_o example_n sake_n whereas_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o present_o after_o he_o name_v s._n greg._n and_o say_v of_o he_o that_o he_o do_v institute_v indulgence_n at_o the_o station_n in_o rome_n so_o as_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o speak_v only_o of_o those_o 4._o not_o of_o all_o the_o father_n in_o general_n and_o so_o much_o for_o durand_n 11._o as_o for_o alphonsus_n à _fw-fr castro_n another_o of_o your_o author_n he_o deni_v not_o all_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n as_o none_o of_o the_o rest_n do_v but_o only_o plain_a &_o express_v testimony_n and_o though_o he_o also_o confess_v the_o use_n of_o indulgence_n not_o to_o have_v be_v so_o much_o in_o those_o ancient_a time_n as_o since_o yet_o he_o allow_v of_o they_o so_o far_o as_o to_o condemn_v any_o man_n for_o a_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v deny_v they_o these_o be_v his_o word_n indulgent_a alph._n a_o castr_n de_fw-fr haeres_fw-la lib._n 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ex_fw-la stationibus_fw-la romae_fw-la frequentissimis_fw-la utrumque_fw-la colligi_fw-la potest_fw-la among_o the_o roman_n this_o use_n of_o indulgence_n be_v say_v to_o be_v most_o ancient_a as_o may_v be_v somewhat_o gather_v by_o the_o most_o frequent_a station_n at_o rome_n look_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n what_o a_o witness_n you_o have_v bring_v for_o yourself_o do_v you_o not_o see_v how_o new_a he_o make_v this_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n confess_v even_o the_o use_n of_o they_o to_o be_v most_o ancient_a and_o of_o many_o hundred_o year_n stand_v nay_o do_v he_o not_o in_o the_o same_o place_n acknowledge_v that_o s._n gregory_n the_o great_a and_o first_o pope_n of_o that_o name_n do_v grant_v some_o indulgence_n which_o be_v above_o a_o thousand_o year_n do_v you_o not_o hear_v how_o much_o he_o give_v to_o the_o church_n acknowledge_v the_o practice_n thereof_o to_o be_v of_o so_o great_a authority_n that_o whosoever_o deny_v the_o truth_n of_o a_o thing_n so_o practise_v be_v worthy_o to_o be_v count_v a_o haeretique_n what_o think_v you_o now_o of_o yourself_o to_o be_v call_v haeretique_n out_o of_o your_o own_o mouth_n as_o it_o be_v that_o be_v out_o of_o your_o author_n mouth_n who_o you_o bring_v for_o you_o for_o castro_n his_o authority_n then_o though_o it_o have_v be_v more_o for_o you_o then_o it_o be_v in_o this_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n yet_o you_o have_v be_v better_o have_v let_v it_o alone_o then_o to_o have_v it_o with_o such_o a_o condition_n the_o like_o a_o man_n may_v say_v of_o every_o author_n you_o bring_v here_o for_o the_o same_o purpose_n but_o that_o it_o be_v needless_a to_o stand_v so_o long_o upon_o examine_v every_o one_o in_o particular_a 12._o now_o after_o such_o good_a authoritye_n as_o you_o bring_v against_o indulgence_n you_o think_v you_o may_v with_o authority_n prate_v very_o free_o of_o the_o pope_n sell_v of_o indulgence_n and_o bring_v money_n to_o his_o own_o coffer_n by_o they_o but_o to_o that_o i_o need_v make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v such_o
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the_o roman_a index_n that_o curio_n be_v a_o haeretique_n of_o the_o first_o class_n but_o pass_v from_o your_o merriment_n you_o tell_v we_o serious_o that_o you_o will_v not_o say_v it_o be_v a_o strange_a presumption_n for_o a_o council_n to_o determine_v a_o uncertain_a doctrine_n upon_o the_o pope_n infallibility_n and_o opinion_n of_o schoolman_n but_o you_o venture_v to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o weak_a and_o senseless_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_v to_o it_o without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n your_o meaning_n be_v by_o a_o fine_a rhetorical_a figure_n to_o say_v it_o be_v presumption_n by_o say_v you_o will_v not_o say_v so_o but_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o will_v go_v the_o plain_a way_n to_o work_v with_o you_o and_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v intolerable_a presumption_n for_o you_o suppose_v you_o be_v a_o man_n of_o learning_n to_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o censure_v of_o presumption_n so_o great_a a_o council_n as_o that_o of_o trent_n wherein_o the_o 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presumption_n for_o you_o without_o doctor_n without_o father_n without_o council_n without_o scripture_n without_o any_o manner_n of_o authority_n to_o go_v against_o all_o this_o authority_n 13._o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v it_o be_v a_o senseless_a and_o weak_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_n to_o doctrine_n as_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v which_o want_v authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n i_o answer_v you_o do_v not_o know_v what_o you_o say_v it_o show_v plain_o you_o have_v not_o read_v one_o of_o those_o father_n of_o who_o you_o so_o much_o brag_v who_o all_o agree_v that_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n which_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o believe_v upon_o unwritten_a tradition_n who_o authority_n you_o may_v see_v in_o great_a number_n in_o bellarmine_n 7._o de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o but_o for_o consent_v of_o father_n it_o be_v true_a it_o be_v requisite_a because_o we_o have_v not_o the_o tradition_n but_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n but_o this_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v no_o more_o require_v to_o be_v by_o their_o express_a testimony_n in_o writing_n then_o in_o the_o scripture_n itself_o for_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o the_o holy_a father_n do_v know_v believe_v or_o practice_v no_o more_o but_o what_o they_o do_v write_v or_o that_o any_o one_o do_v write_v in_o particular_a all_o the_o whole_a belief_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n the_o father_n do_v in_o their_o writing_n as_o the_o apostle_n do_v in_o they_o that_o be_v write_v of_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a matter_n as_o the_o particular_a occasion_n of_o answer_v some_o haeretique_n or_o instruct_v some_o catholic_a do_v require_v and_o therefore_o mention_v no_o more_o than_o be_v needful_a for_o that_o end_n but_o the_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v most_o of_o all_o prove_v by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o the_o present_a time_n see_v that_o practice_n be_v without_o beginning_n can_v otherwise_o have_v be_v but_o from_o those_o that_o have_v go_v before_o from_o time_n to_o time_n and_o though_o you_o make_v a_o difference_n yet_o certain_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o consent_n of_o catholic_a doctor_n in_o the_o present_a time_n as_o it_o be_v of_o holy_a father_n in_o former_a time_n who_o be_v the_o doctor_n of_o those_o time_n and_o as_o they_o be_v father_n not_o so_o proper_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o time_n wherein_o they_o live_v as_o of_o succeed_a age_n so_o the_o doctor_n of_o these_o time_n be_v father_n in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o shall_v come_v after_o they_o neither_o can_v the_o consent_n of_o doctor_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n more_o err_v in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v always_o the_o same_o no_o less_o in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o 28._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 28._o and_o tertullian_n rule_n have_v still_o place_n as_o well_o in_o one_o age_n as_o another_o to_o wit_n quod_fw-la apud_fw-la multos_fw-la unum_fw-la invenitur_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la erratum_fw-la sed_fw-la traditum_fw-la that_o which_o be_v the_o same_o among_o many_o be_v no_o error_n but_o a_o tradition_n the_o common_a consent_n therefore_o of_o doctor_n and_o particular_a church_n be_v always_o a_o sufficient_a argument_n of_o tradition_n and_o antiquity_n and_o consequent_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n against_o whatsoever_o novel_a fancy_n of_o any_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v take_v upon_o he_o to_o control_v the_o same_o this_o i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o we_o want_v sufficient_a proof_n of_o antiquity_n for_o any_o point_n but_o to_o show_v that_o we_o need_v it_o not_o so_o express_v in_o ancient_a author_n but_o that_o the_o very_a practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v sufficient_a to_o stop_n the_o mouth_n of_o any_o contentious_a haeretique_n no_o less_o then_o in_o ancient_a time_n when_o that_o proof_n of_o forego_v writer_n can_v have_v no_o place_n for_o so_o s._n paul_n think_v he_o answer_v sufficient_o for_o defence_n of_o himself_o and_o offence_n of_o his_o contentious_a enemy_n 11._o 1._o cor._n 11._o when_o he_o say_v si_fw-la quis_fw-la videtur_fw-la contentiosus_fw-la esse_fw-la nos_fw-la talem_fw-la consuetudinem_fw-la non_fw-la habemus_fw-la neque_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la dei_fw-la if_o any_o man_n seem_v to_o be_v contentious_a we_o have_v no_o such_o custom_n nor_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o so_o much_o more_o may_v we_o now_o say_v of_o our_o long_a continue_a custom_n of_o many_o hundred_o of_o year_n wherefore_o your_o exception_n sir_n humphrey_n against_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n for_o define_v this_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n without_o such_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n &_o antiquity_n as_o you_o require_v be_v vain_a as_o that_o be_v also_o false_a which_o you_o here_o again_o repeat_v that_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n can_v be_v warrantable_a without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n for_o faith_n be_v more_o ancient_a than_o scripture_n for_o to_o say_v nothing_o of_o the_o time_n before_o christ_n faith_n be_v teach_v by_o christ_n himself_o without_o writing_n as_o also_o by_o his_o apostle_n after_o he_o for_o many_o year_n without_o any_o word_n write_v and_o so_o it_o have_v be_v ever_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o holy_a and_o learned_a man_n that_o as_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o apostolical_a preach_n then_o write_v so_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v still_o to_o be_v give_v to_o their_o word_n deliver_v we_o by_o tradition_n then_o by_o their_o writing_n the_o credit_n and_o sense_n even_o of_o their_o writing_n depend_v upon_o the_o same_o tradition_n among_o who_o the_o clean_a contrary_a principle_n be_v as_o certain_a and_o undoubted_a as_o this_o of_o you_o be_v with_o you_o
and_o you_o minister_n 14._o basil_n see_v tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 21._o epiph._n chrisost_o basil_n the_o particular_a testimony_n you_o may_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n to_o who_o i_o remit_v you_o only_o for_o s._n aug._n i_o can_v omit_v to_o make_v more_o particular_a mention_n of_o he_o in_o this_o place_n by_o reason_n of_o a_o certain_a sentence_n which_o you_o have_v bring_v in_o the_o end_n of_o this_o §_o as_o alsoe_o of_o every_o one_o of_o the_o 6._o 7._o damascen_n &_o alios_fw-la ap_fw-mi bell._n de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o forego_v §§_o still_o conclude_v with_o this_o say_n of_o that_o holy_a father_n sive_fw-la de_fw-la christo_fw-la five_o etc._n etc._n whether_o concern_v christ_n or_o concern_v the_o church_n or_o concern_v any_o other_o thing_n that_o pertain_v to_o our_o faith_n i_o will_v not_o say_v we_o who_o be_v no_o way_n to_o be_v compare_v to_o he_o that_o say_v but_o if_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n shall_v preach_v unto_o you_o beside_o what_o you_o have_v receive_v in_o the_o legal_a and_o evangelical_a scripture_n let_v he_o be_v anathema_n and_o in_o the_o end_n of_o every_o one_o for_o the_o most_o part_n add_v the_o particular_a controversy_n of_o that_o §_o as_o for_o example_n in_o this_o of_o indulgence_n you_o say_v if_o we_o or_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n preach_v unto_o you_o any_o thing_n concern_v the_o faith_n of_o indulgence_n beside_o that_o you_o have_v receive_v etc._n etc._n and_o so_o in_o every_o of_o the_o other_o particular_a point_n whereby_o you_o will_v persuade_v your_o reader_n that_o saint_n aug._n will_v have_v nothing_o believe_v but_o what_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o express_a word_n of_o scripture_n wherein_o i_o appeal_v to_o your_o own_o conscience_n as_o bad_a as_o it_o be_v whither_o this_o be_v not_o damnable_a dishonest_a deal_v both_o towards_o s._n aug._n and_o towards_o your_o reader_n for_o if_o you_o have_v read_v s._n aug._n as_o you_o pretend_v how_o can_v you_o be_v ignorant_a how_o many_o point_n of_o faith_n he_o do_v defend_v against_o several_a haeretique_n either_o only_a or_o chief_o by_o the_o tradition_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n 23._o de_fw-fr bap._n câ—nt_fw-la donat._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 7._o &_o lib._n 5._o cap._n 23._o as_o single_a baptism_n against_o the_o donatist_n consubstantiality_n of_o the_o son_n divinity_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o even_o unbegottenesse_n of_o the_o father_n the_o first_o person_n in_o trinity_n against_o the_o arrian_n and_o the_o baptism_n of_o child_n against_o pelagius_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a 118._o cont._n maxi._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 3._o &_o ep_n 174._o de_fw-fr genes_n ad_fw-la literam_fw-la lib._n 10._o cap._n 23._o de_fw-fr cura_fw-la pro_fw-la mortuis_fw-la ep_v 118._o observation_n of_o the_o feast_n of_o easter_n ascension_n whitsuntide_n and_o the_o like_a nay_o this_o truth_n be_v so_o ground_v with_o he_o that_o he_o count_v it_o most_o insolent_a madness_n to_o dispute_v against_o the_o common_a opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v of_o so_o great_a authority_n with_o he_o as_o that_o he_o say_v in_o one_o place_n that_o when_o we_o follow_v it_o we_o follow_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n these_o be_v his_o word_n scripturarum_fw-la a_o nobis_fw-la tenetur_fw-la veritas_fw-la cum_fw-la id_fw-la facimus_fw-la etc._n etc._n 33._o lib._n 1._o cont_n crescon_n cap._n 33._o the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v hold_v by_o we_o when_o we_o do_v that_o which_o seem_v good_a to_o the_o whole_a church_n which_o church_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n themselves_o do_v commend_v that_o because_o the_o holy_a scripture_n can_v deceive_v whosoever_o be_v afraid_a to_o be_v deceive_v by_o the_o obscurity_n of_o this_o question_n may_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o church_n the_o which_o the_o holy_a scripture_n without_o any_o ambiguity_n do_v demonstrate_v unto_o we_o so_o he_o there_o and_o that_o it_o may_v far_o appear_v that_o to_o deny_v this_o authority_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o only_o to_o deny_v the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n but_o even_o of_o christ_n himself_o i_o can_v here_o omit_v to_o note_v a_o place_n of_o the_o same_o saint_n his_o book_n de_fw-fr unit_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la where_o he_o treat_v this_o very_a point_n very_o particular_o and_o excellent_o so_o as_o to_o take_v away_o all_o doubt_n of_o his_o opinion_n therein_o for_o here_o he_o do_v of_o purpose_n intend_v to_o show_v that_o where_o plain_a proof_n of_o scripture_n be_v want_v we_o must_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o church_n prove_v it_o thus_o by_o occasion_n of_o the_o question_n of_o rebaptisation_n and_o suppose_v that_o there_o be_v no_o proof_n of_o scripture_n either_o way_n puto_fw-la si_fw-la aliquis_fw-la sapiens_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o think_v say_v he_o if_o there_o be_v any_o wise_a man_n of_o who_o our_o saviour_n have_v give_v testimony_n to_o wit_n 22._o aug._n de_fw-fr vnit._n eccle_n cap_n 22._o of_o his_o wisdom_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v be_v ask_v in_o this_o question_n we_o shall_v not_o doubt_v to_o do_v what_o he_o shall_v say_v lest_o we_o shall_v seem_v to_o gainsay_v not_o he_o so_o much_o as_o christ_n by_o who_o testimony_n he_o be_v commend_v now_o christ_n bear_v witness_n of_o his_o church_n and_o a_o little_a after_o again_o he_o say_v that_o whosoever_o refuse_v to_o follow_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n do_v resist_v our_o saviour_n himself_o who_o by_o his_o testimony_n commend_v the_o church_n by_o which_o discourse_n and_o comparison_n any_o man_n may_v see_v that_o in_o s._n augustine_n judgement_n the_o church_n word_n be_v warrant_v by_o christ_n as_o much_o as_o if_o he_o shall_v have_v name_v any_o one_o man_n in_o particular_a who_o word_n he_o will_v make_v good_a and_o who_o consequent_o we_o shall_v follow_v &_o that_o by_o refuse_v or_o leave_v he_o we_o shall_v leave_v christ_n himself_o so_o as_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o plain_a and_o evident_a to_o declare_v this_o holy_a father_n opinion_n in_o this_o point_n of_o the_o church_n authority_n in_o the_o belief_n and_o practice_n even_o of_o thing_n not_o express_v in_o scripture_n and_o this_o may_v sufficient_o convince_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n of_o malicious_a deceit_n in_o allege_v that_o other_o place_n of_o this_o holy_a father_n so_o contrary_a to_o his_o meaning_n declare_v in_o so_o many_o place_n and_o so_o plain_o 15._o but_o because_o you_o may_v yet_o make_v difficulty_n in_o this_o testimony_n which_o you_o allege_v as_o though_o it_o alone_o shall_v stand_v against_o all_o other_o that_o can_v be_v allege_v out_o of_o he_o and_o that_o no_o interpretation_n of_o any_o man_n else_o can_v be_v able_a to_o satisfy_v you_o i_o will_v allege_v his_o own_o word_n interpret_n the_o meaning_n of_o s._n paul_n word_n which_o he_o allege_v &_o use_v in_o 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i_o take_v you_o in_o earnest_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o mean_v it_o and_o ask_v what_o certainty_n you_o or_o any_o protestant_n have_v or_o can_v have_v that_o you_o be_v christian_n if_o you_o think_v that_o your_o christianity_n depend_v upon_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n if_o you_o think_v it_o do_v not_o as_o it_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o puritan_n indeed_o that_o baptism_n be_v not_o any_o cause_n of_o grace_n but_o only_o a_o sign_n or_o seal_n of_o the_o adoption_n which_o they_o receive_v by_o carnal_a propagation_n from_o their_o faithful_a parent_n and_o it_o seem_v also_o you_o by_o what_o you_o say_v both_o here_o and_o before_o in_o your_o 4._o §_o of_o sacrament_n in_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o sacrament_n if_o i_o say_v you_o think_v so_o than_o i_o confess_v you_o need_v not_o fear_v the_o minister_n want_n of_o intention_n but_o that_o pertain_v to_o another_o disputation_n but_o yet_o you_o have_v as_o little_a certainty_n or_o less_o of_o your_o christendom_n still_o for_o what_o know_v you_o whither_o your_o parent_n be_v of_o the_o faithful_a or_o no_o that_o be_v whither_o they_o do_v believe_v there_o be_v a_o god_n or_o what_o they_o do_v believe_v of_o he_o and_o so_o of_o your_o own_o child_n if_o their_o christendom_n depend_v upon_o you_o or_o your_o wife_n faith_n it_o may_v be_v they_o may_v be_v much_o more_o uncertain_a thereof_o than_o we_o be_v by_o depend_v upon_o our_o priest_n intention_n for_o no_o man_n can_v know_v your_o inward_a belief_n but_o find_v you_o what_o you_o will_v we_o shall_v still_o find_v some_o man_n intention_n or_o other_o that_o shall_v make_v your_o faith_n or_o christendom_n uncertain_a unless_o you_o can_v prove_v you_o be_v christen_v by_o god_n himself_o which_o sure_a you_o will_v not_o go_v about_o to_o do_v 8._o but_o howsoever_o you_o extenuate_v the_o force_n and_o necessity_n of_o baptism_n for_o matrimony_n i_o suppose_v you_o will_v not_o whole_o abrogate_v it_o though_o 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it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o say_v there_o be_v 7._o sacrament_n and_o that_o these_o sacrament_n do_v give_v grace_n where_o they_o be_v due_o administer_v with_o all_o thing_n requisite_a on_o the_o part_n both_o of_o the_o giver_n and_o receiver_n and_o another_o to_o say_v they_o be_v so_o to_o i_o that_o be_v that_o in_o my_o receive_n of_o any_o one_o of_o they_o all_o thing_n have_v concur_v both_o on_o the_o priest_n part_n and_o i_o the_o former_a be_v reveal_v by_o god_n and_o propound_v by_o his_o church_n the_o late_a be_v not_o reveal_v in_o any_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o by_o your_o own_o rule_n can_v be_v no_o matter_n of_o faith_n for_o the_o inconvenience_n therefore_o which_o you_o say_v may_v follow_v though_o any_o way_n that_o you_o can_v invent_v i_o do_v not_o think_v but_o there_o will_v be_v two_o for_o one_o and_o far_o great_a i_o answer_v that_o though_o in_o matter_n of_o baptism_n ordination_n etc._n etc._n there_o may_v happen_v some_o defect_n in_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a case_n for_o want_n of_o intention_n matter_n form_n or_o the_o like_a yet_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o providence_n of_o almighty_a god_n not_o to_o permit_v any_o universal_a or_o even_o great_a defect_n to_o happen_v and_o so_o though_o we_o be_v not_o certain_a by_o certainty_n of_o divine_a faith_n that_o this_o or_o that_o man_n in_o particular_a be_v true_o baptize_v and_o ordain_v a_o priest_n yet_o we_o be_v certain_a by_o the_o certainty_n of_o divine_a faith_n that_o not_o only_o there_o be_v such_o sacrament_n but_o that_o they_o be_v also_o true_o administer_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n so_o as_o there_o can_v be_v no_o danger_n of_o the_o fail_a of_o either_o or_o of_o any_o danger_n which_o may_v ensue_v thereupon_o to_o the_o notable_a prejudice_n of_o faith_n and_o salvation_n of_o soul_n and_o withal_o though_o we_o be_v not_o certain_a by_o certainty_n of_o faith_n of_o every_o particular_a yet_o we_o have_v moral_a certainty_n that_o be_v as_o much_o certainty_n as_o there_o can_v be_v of_o any_o humane_a thing_n which_o depend_v of_o the_o action_n or_o intention_n of_o any_o man_n which_o as_o we_o see_v it_o be_v enough_o for_o man_n to_o rest_v themselves_o secure_a in_o all_o worldy_a matter_n concern_v their_o life_n and_o good_n which_o most_o man_n prize_v above_o their_o soul_n so_o it_o may_v also_o give_v a_o man_n sufficient_a security_n in_o matter_n of_o his_o soul_n especial_o since_o as_o we_o say_v if_o he_o be_v not_o want_v to_o himself_o almighty_a god_n will_v not_o of_o his_o goodness_n suffer_v he_o through_o another_o man_n fault_n to_o want_v any_o thing_n necessary_a for_o his_o salvation_n but_o will_v incite_v he_o to_o contrition_n for_o forgiveness_n of_o his_o sin_n or_o to_o make_v doubt_n and_o seek_v whether_o he_o have_v those_o necessary_a thing_n or_o no_o but_o yet_o with_o this_o security_n there_o remain_v a_o place_n for_o a_o holy_a fear_n which_o may_v keep_v down_o our_o pride_n and_o make_v we_o shake_v of_o all_o torpour_n exercise_v ourselves_o in_o good_a work_n and_o work_v our_o salvation_n with_o fear_n and_o tremble_a but_o of_o this_o kind_n of_o faith_n it_o be_v not_o that_o we_o mean_v when_o we_o dispute_v with_o haeretique_n of_o the_o certainty_n of_o true_a faith_n but_o of_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v a_o belief_n and_o doctrine_n deliver_v in_o general_a abstract_n from_o this_o or_o that_o man_n whether_o he_o believe_v aright_o or_o be_v certain_a of_o his_o belief_n that_o be_v that_o he_o believe_v wherefore_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o change_v the_o question_n herein_o you_o commit_v a_o notable_a gross_a aequivocation_n of_o term_n which_o be_v a_o foul_a fault_n in_o a_o scholar_n as_o you_o be_v forsooth_o 9_o but_o from_o this_o you_o pass_v to_o another_o point_n of_o uncertainty_n or_o rather_o a_o other_o kind_n of_o proof_n of_o our_o uncertainty_n thus_o you_o say_v we_o be_v uncertain_a whether_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n or_o not_o and_o whither_o some_o that_o we_o pray_v unto_o be_v saint_n in_o heaven_n or_o devil_n in_o hell_n the_o late_a you_o prove_v out_o of_o caiet_fw-mi because_o he_o say_v that_o the_o miracle_n whereon_o the_o church_n ground_v the_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n can_v be_v infallible_o know_v and_o out_o of_o saint_n august_n and_o sulpitius_n the_o one_o say_v some_o be_v torment_v in_o hell_n which_o be_v worship_v on_o earth_n the_o other_o say_v that_o the_o common_a people_n worship_v for_o a_o martyr_n one_o that_o be_v damn_v and_o who_o appear_v and_o tell_v they_o so_o the_o former_a uncertainty_n to_o wit_n whether_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n 45._o gab._n in_o can_n lect_v 31._o mag._n in_o 4._o d._n 45._o you_o prove_v out_o
of_o gabr._n and_o pet._n lomb._n the_o one_o say_v it_o be_v not_o certain_a but_o it_o may_v seem_v probable_a that_o god_n reveal_v unto_o saint_n all_o those_o suit_n which_o man_n present_v unto_o they_o the_o other_o that_o it_o be_v not_o incredible_a that_o the_o soul_n of_o saint_n hear_v the_o prayer_n of_o their_o suppliant_n well_o be_v it_o so_o sir_n hum._n let_v it_o be_v uncertain_a as_o you_o say_v it_o be_v whether_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n or_o not_o yet_o it_o follow_v not_o for_o all_o that_o that_o our_o doctrine_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v uncertain_a for_o as_o bellar._n well_o note_v it_o may_v be_v good_a and_o profitable_a to_o invoke_v the_o saint_n though_o they_o themselves_o shall_v not_o hear_v we_o but_o only_o almighty_a god_n for_o they_o what_o be_v you_o the_o better_a then_o but_o beside_o it_o be_v not_o uncertain_a whether_o the_o saint_n hear_v we_o or_o no_o that_o be_v it_o be_v not_o uncertain_a whether_o they_o know_v our_o prayer_n or_o not_o for_o though_o there_o be_v question_n of_o the_o manner_n how_o they_o know_v they_o yet_o there_o be_v no_o question_n but_o that_o they_o do_v know_v they_o neither_o be_v gabriel_n authority_n or_o peter_n lombard_n by_o you_o allege_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o contrary_n for_o they_o only_o make_v doubt_n of_o the_o manner_n without_o any_o doubt_n of_o the_o thing_n itself_o as_o be_v most_o manifest_a by_o their_o very_a discourse_n and_o word_n in_o those_o very_a place_n where_o you_o take_v out_o your_o for_o thus_o say_v gabriel_n non_fw-la invocantur_fw-la sancti_fw-la tanquam_fw-la datores_fw-la bonorum_fw-la pro_fw-la quibus_fw-la oramus_fw-la sed_fw-la tanquam_fw-la intercessores_fw-la apud_fw-la deum_fw-la bonorum_fw-la omnium_fw-la largitorem_fw-la the_o saint_n be_v invocate_v not_o as_o the_o giver_n of_o good_a thing_n for_o which_o we_o pray_v but_o as_o intercessor_n to_o god_n the_o giver_n of_o all_o good_a where_o you_o see_v he_o speak_v not_o doubtful_o but_o certain_o of_o invocation_n and_o so_o go_v on_o with_o his_o discourse_n prove_v that_o notwithstanding_o that_o almighty_a god_n be_v of_o himself_o most_o propitious_a and_o merciful_a yet_o that_o do_v not_o hinder_v but_o that_o the_o saint_n may_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o after_o that_o fall_v to_o discourse_v of_o the_o manner_n how_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n the_o like_a i_o may_v say_v of_o peter_n lombard_n who_o though_o he_o say_v only_o in_o those_o word_n which_o you_o bring_v that_o it_o be_v not_o incredible_a that_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n yet_o for_o their_o hear_n or_o see_v our_o prayer_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n as_o the_o angel_n do_v he_o make_v no_o doubt_n sicut_fw-la enim_fw-la angelisit_fw-la a_o etiam_fw-la sanctis_fw-la qui_fw-la deo_fw-la assistunt_fw-la petitiones_fw-la nostrae_fw-la innotescunt_fw-la in_o verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la quod_fw-la contemplantur_fw-la say_v he_o for_o as_o our_o prayer_n become_v know_v to_o the_o angel_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o they_o behold_v so_o also_o to_o the_o saint_n who_o stand_v before_o god_n so_o as_o here_o be_v something_o more_o sir_n humphrey_n with_o your_o good_a leave_n then_o probability_n and_o uncertainty_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o these_o doctor_n though_o you_o be_v please_v to_o conclude_v out_o of_o they_o that_o there_o be_v nothing_o but_o probability_n and_o uncertainty_n though_o if_o there_o be_v but_o probability_n only_o it_o be_v more_o than_o you_o have_v for_o any_o point_n of_o your_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v you_o 10._o for_o caietan_n authority_n concern_v the_o miracle_n whereon_o the_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n be_v ground_v it_o be_v true_a as_o he_o say_v the_o authority_n of_o they_o be_v but_o humane_a as_o rely_v upon_o the_o testimony_n of_o man_n but_o what_o then_o ergo_fw-la we_o be_v uncertain_a whether_o the_o canonize_a saint_n be_v in_o heaven_n or_o no_o this_o be_v your_o conclusion_n and_o it_o be_v like_o one_o of_o you_o indeed_o but_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o follow_v not_o for_o the_o certainty_n of_o canonisation_n depend_v upon_o a_o more_o certain_a ground_n to_o wit_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o sea_n apostolic_a and_o continual_a assistance_n and_o direction_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n to_o who_o it_o belong_v not_o to_o suffer_v christ_n vicar_n use_v humane_a diligence_n and_o proceed_v prudent_o in_o a_o matter_n of_o that_o moment_n to_o err_v and_o the_o proof_n of_o miracle_n be_v only_o use_v that_o he_o may_v proceed_v prudent_o &_o upon_o good_a ground_n &_o in_o that_o sense_n miracle_n be_v say_v to_o ground_n the_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n not_o that_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o one_o do_v whole_o depend_v on_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o other_o so_o as_o caietan_n help_v you_o not_o a_o jot_n to_o prove_v the_o uncertainty_n of_o our_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n no_o more_o than_o do_v s._n aug._n and_o sulpitius_n in_o those_o authoritye_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o they_o for_o they_o speak_v not_o a_o word_n of_o any_o canonize_a saint_n and_o as_o for_o the_o place_n of_o s._n aug._n bellarm._n answer_v that_o perhaps_o it_o be_v not_o he_o which_o word_n perhaps_o you_o take_v hold_v of_o as_o if_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n think_v it_o be_v but_o a_o slender_a answer_n or_o rather_o a_o grant_n of_o the_o authority_n whereas_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o bell._n use_v that_o word_n out_o of_o modesty_n because_o as_o he_o say_v he_o can_v never_o find_v it_o in_o any_o work_n of_o s._n aug._n which_o notwithstanding_o he_o will_v not_o say_v peremptory_o it_o be_v not_o there_o but_o if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v it_o s._n augustin_n sir_n humphrey_n tell_v we_o where_o out_o of_o your_o great_a read_n &_o then_o you_o shall_v find_v 3._o or_o 4._o several_a answer_n ready_a in_o bellarmine_n without_o any_o peradventure_o and_o indeed_o any_o man_n of_o ordinary_a wit_n will_v present_o see_v the_o place_n do_v not_o urge_v a_o whit_n for_o who_o do_v doubt_n but_o many_o dead_a man_n be_v mighty_o honour_v by_o some_o man_n here_o upon_o earth_n who_o soul_n be_v bury_v full_a low_a in_o hell_n another_o answer_n of_o bellarmine_n be_v that_o if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o place_n in_o s._n aug._n it_o may_v be_v very_o well_o understand_v of_o the_o martyr_n of_o the_o donatist_n who_o be_v honour_v by_o those_o haeretique_n for_o martyr_n who_o soul_n be_v torment_v in_o hell_n as_o the_o same_o b._n saint_n say_v of_o they_o elsewhere_o 68_o aug._n ep_v 68_o vivebant_fw-la ut_fw-la latrones_fw-la honorabantur_fw-la ut_fw-la martyr_n they_o live_v as_o thief_n and_o be_v honour_v as_o martyr_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o our_o canonize_a saint_n be_v here_o any_o the_o least_o shadow_n thereof_o for_o that_o story_n of_o sulpitius_n it_o be_v true_a that_o there_o be_v one_o worship_v by_o the_o people_n for_o a_o martyr_n indeed_o but_o he_o be_v far_o from_o any_o canonisation_n of_o the_o church_n for_o as_o the_o story_n say_v s._n martin_n see_v the_o people_n worship_v a_o dead_a man_n &_o not_o know_v what_o he_o be_v nor_o have_v any_o certainty_n from_o those_o that_o go_v before_o of_o he_o he_o mislike_v their_o devotion_n and_o pray_v to_o god_n that_o he_o may_v know_v what_o man_n that_o be_v &_o so_o by_o the_o appointement_n of_o god_n the_o man_n appear_v and_o confess_v himself_o to_o have_v be_v a_o high_a way_n thief_n that_o be_v put_v to_o death_n by_o the_o hand_n of_o justice_n for_o his_o wickedness_n this_o be_v the_o story_n and_o this_o we_o allege_v as_o a_o reason_n among_o other_o why_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n be_v necessary_a in_o the_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n that_o people_n may_v not_o be_v deceive_v in_o worship_v wicked_a man_n for_o saint_n give_v the_o honour_n dew_n to_o almighty_a god_n friend_n to_o his_o enemy_n it_o be_v therefore_o good_a sport_n to_o so_o a_o right_n learned_a knight_n as_o you_o be_v forsooth_o by_o a_o new_a strain_n of_o wit_n to_o bring_v it_o to_o prove_v the_o uncertainty_n of_o our_o canonisation_n wherein_o you_o must_v argue_v thus_o some_o people_n in_o s._n martin_n time_n do_v err_v in_o worship_v a_o dead_a thief_n for_o a_o saint_n without_o any_o sufficient_a reason_n or_o approbation_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la catholic_n may_v err_v in_o worship_v of_o saint_n canonize_v and_o authorize_v by_o the_o church_n upon_o great_a and_o evident_a proof_n of_o their_o holy_a life_n and_o death_n and_o upon_o many_o and_o manifest_a miracle_n be_v not_o this_o a_o trim_a argument_n to_o be_v print_v and_o reprint_v 11._o in_o the_o next_o place_n you_o come_v with_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o purgatory_n whereof_o you_o say_v s._n aug._n
that_o suppose_v he_o do_v know_v they_o to_o be_v good_a yet_o they_o have_v not_o that_o goodness_n from_o he_o or_o as_o they_o be_v his_o but_o as_o they_o be_v from_o almighty_a god_n and_o by_o his_o grace_n and_o yet_o more_o we_o teach_v that_o he_o may_v fall_v again_o and_o loose_v all_o his_o labour_n which_o do_v exceed_o diminish_v confidence_n of_o a_o man_n self_n so_o as_o we_o leave_v nothing_o for_o a_o man_n to_o trust_v to_o of_o himself_o but_o that_o he_o must_v give_v all_o to_o god_n as_o s._n paul_n do_v in_o say_v 15.10_o 1._o cor._n 15.10_o non_fw-la ego_fw-la sed_fw-la gratia_fw-la dei_fw-la mecum_fw-la not_o i_o but_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n with_o i_o &_o qui_fw-la gloriatur_fw-la in_o domino_fw-la glorietur_fw-la that_o he_o that_o do_v glory_n may_v glory_v in_o god_n and_o to_o show_v that_o we_o have_v nothing_o of_o ourselves_o we_o say_v again_o with_o the_o same_o saint_n quid_fw-la habes_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la accepisti_fw-la what_o have_v 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sense_n for_o ask_v any_o schoolboy_n whether_o cùm_fw-la with_o the_o subiunctive_a and_o indicative_a mood_n be_v all_o one_o the_o thing_n which_o you_o leave_v out_o be_v s._n hierom_n authority_n which_o bellarmine_n allege_v thus_o see_v say_v he_o it_o be_v evident_a as_o saint_n hiero._n speak_v that_o he_o be_v no_o man_n of_o the_o church_n these_o be_v saint_n hierom_n very_a word_n here_o than_o you_o see_v again_o that_o it_o be_v saint_n hierome_n not_o bellarmine_n alone_a that_o do_v reject_v tertullian_n nor_o be_v saint_n hierome_n alone_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n in_o this_o opinion_n of_o he_o but_o almost_o all_o the_o father_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n say_v he_o be_v by_o his_o fall_n a_o great_a temptation_n to_o many_o 5._o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 24._o hilar._n in_o comment_n in_o math._n cap._n 5._o and_o saint_n hilarius_n say_v there_o that_o tertullian_n late_a error_n do_v detract_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o authority_n from_o his_o approve_a writing_n 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faith_n beside_o if_o canus_n have_v say_v s._n hierome_n be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n he_o have_v say_v most_o true_a and_o nothing_o but_o what_o holy_a s._n aug._n say_v in_o other_o word_n in_o a_o epistle_n to_o this_o same_o s._n hierome_n and_o speak_v even_o of_o his_o writing_n thus_o 19_o aug._n ep_v 19_o solis_n eye_v scripturarum_fw-la libris_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o have_v learned_a to_o give_v that_o fear_n and_o honour_n to_o those_o only_a book_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v now_o call_v canonical_a as_o to_o believe_v most_o firm_o that_o no_o author_n or_o writer_n of_o they_o have_v err_v any_o thing_n in_o writing_n but_o other_o i_o read_v so_o that_o though_o they_o excel_v never_o so_o much_o in_o any_o holiness_n &_o learning_n i_o do_v not_o therefore_o think_v it_o true_a because_o they_o think_v so_o but_o because_o they_o have_v be_v able_a to_o persuade_v either_o by_o those_o canonical_a author_n or_o by_o probable_a reason_n that_o they_o say_v true_a and_o there_o he_o go_v on_o specify_v even_o s._n hierome_n himself_o and_o say_v unto_o he_o that_o he_o presume_v he_o will_v not_o have_v he_o so_o whole_o approve_v of_o his_o writing_n as_o to_o think_v there_o be_v no_o error_n at_o all_o in_o they_o the_o like_a he_o have_v in_o another_o place_n show_v plain_o that_o any_o private_a doctor_n may_v err_v 3_o lib._n 2._o de_fw-fr bap._n cont_n donat._n cap._n 3_o and_o consequent_o can_v be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n yet_o for_o all_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o such_o be_v very_o great_a in_o any_o thing_n wherein_o he_o agree_v with_o other_o or_o be_v not_o by_o they_o gain_v say_v for_o that_o be_v a_o token_n that_o what_o he_o say_v be_v the_o common_a tradition_n and_o belief_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v a_o sufficient_a rule_n be_v this_o then_o to_o reject_v and_o elude_v the_o father_n to_o say_v that_o one_o be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n if_o it_o be_v then_o do_v s._n aug._n reject_v and_o elude_v they_o it_o be_v plain_a therefore_o you_o do_v but_o cavil_n for_o why_o may_v not_o canus_n say_v the_o same_o of_o s._n hierome_n that_o s._n aug._n do_v 13._o after_o s._n hierome_n you_o come_v to_o justin_n irenaeus_n epiphanius_n and_o oecumenius_n who_o say_v you_o if_o you_o cite_v bellarmine_n answer_v i_o see_v not_o how_o we_o can_v defend_v the_o sentence_n of_o these_o man_n from_o error_n 6_o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr sanct._n cap._n 6_o here_o again_o as_o else_o where_o you_o forbear_v to_o tell_v we_o the_o matter_n for_o which_o you_o cite_v they_o or_o who_o of_o your_o author_n cite_v they_o for_o this_o will_v have_v discover_v your_o falsehood_n and_o vanity_n the_o matter_n than_o be_v concern_v the_o damn_a spirit_n whether_o they_o suffer_v any_o punishment_n for_o the_o present_a time_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n or_o not_o these_o father_n think_v not_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o other_o father_n and_o of_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n be_v against_o they_o in_o it_o how_o then_o shall_v bellarmine_n excuse_v it_o from_o a_o error_n but_o i_o pray_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n bethink_v yourself_o well_o and_o tell_v we_o again_o whether_o this_o be_v any_o point_n controvert_v between_o you_o and_o we_o i_o know_v it_o be_v a_o thing_n which_o you_o may_v better_o maintain_v then_o most_o or_o perhaps_o any_o one_o point_n of_o your_o faith_n have_v these_o 3._o or_o 4._o father_n for_o you_o therein_o but_o yet_o i_o do_v not_o find_v by_o your_o 39_o article_n or_o any_o other_o sufficient_a authority_n that_o you_o hold_v that_o error_n much_o less_o as_o a_o chief_a point_n of_o your_o faith_n wherefore_o it_o be_v false_a that_o you_o say_v when_o you_o cite_v these_o father_n for_o you_o do_v not_o cite_v they_o neither_o be_v their_o error_n in_o a_o matter_n of_o controversy_n between_o we_o i_o note_v here_o also_o in_o a_o word_n that_o whereas_o bellarmine_n say_v only_a he_o do_v not_o see_v how_o he_o can_v defend_v the_o opinion_n of_o justin_n irenaeus_n etc._n etc._n from_o error_n you_o make_v he_o say_v the_o opinion_n of_o these_o man_n as_o if_o he_o do_v speak_v but_o slight_o of_o the_o father_n which_o be_v a_o great_a wrong_n for_o though_o he_o do_v not_o in_o all_o thing_n and_o always_o approve_v the_o opinion_n of_o every_o particular_a man_n yet_o do_v he_o always_o speak_v with_o great_a reverence_n of_o the_o holy_a father_n as_o all_o catholic_n do_v 14._o last_o you_o come_v with_o salmeron_n say_v that_o if_o you_o produce_v the_o uniform_a consent_n of_o father_n against_o the_o immaculate_a conception_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n salmeron_n the_o jesuit_n make_v answer_n weak_a be_v the_o place_n which_o be_v
uncertainty_n and_o novelty_n of_o his_o own_o for_o which_o end_n you_o produce_v 8._o several_a place_n six_z whereof_o i_o have_v answer_v before_o and_o there_o also_o show_v that_o some_o be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n to_o the_o purpose_n other_o most_o gross_o falsify_v the_o 1._o place_n to_o wit_n that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a of_o his_o faith_n because_o he_o can_v be_v certain_a he_o receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n because_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o minister_n intention_n be_v answer_v and_o prove_v most_o foolish_a chap._n 10._o n._n 7.8_o etc._n etc._n the_o second_o place_n which_o be_v of_o transubstantiation_n as_o if_o bellarmine_n confess_v it_o probable_a that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n be_v answer_v in_o cap._n 9_o §_o 2._o n._n 22._o concern_v which_o i_o only_o note_v that_o in_o this_o place_n you_o have_v a_o new_a corruption_n for_o whereas_o bellar._n say_v only_o that_o it_o may_v be_v doubt_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o place_n of_o scripture_n so_o plain_a as_o without_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n to_o enforce_v transubstantiation_n because_o some_o learned_a man_n as_o scotus_n do_v doubt_v thereof_o though_o bell._n say_v to_o he_o the_o scripture_n seem_v so_o plain_a as_o to_o enforce_v it_o here_o you_o make_v he_o say_v it_o may_v be_v doubt_v whether_o the_o scripture_n will_v bear_v it_o which_o be_v clean_o another_o thing_n for_o to_o enforce_v a_o sense_n &_o bear_v a_o sense_n be_v two_o several_a thing_n neither_o do_v scotus_n or_o any_o divine_a else_o ever_o make_v question_n but_o that_o the_o scripture_n will_v bear_v that_o sense_n but_o whither_o that_o be_v so_o clear_a and_o obvious_a a_o sense_n as_o of_o itself_o to_o enforce_v the_o belief_n of_o transubstantiation_n the_o 3._o 10._o bell._n lib._n 2._o the_o miss_n cap._n 9_o &_o 10._o place_n which_o be_v of_o mass_n without_o communicants_n i_o pass_v over_o before_o as_o impertinent_a to_o the_o purpose_n and_o so_o i_o may_v do_v here_o but_o for_o the_o reader_n be_v full_a satisfaction_n i_o answer_v bellarmine_n say_v that_o mass_n be_v ordain_v both_o to_o offer_v sacrifice_n to_o god_n and_o to_o nourish_v the_o people_n with_o spiritual_a food_n in_o which_o respect_n as_o it_o be_v not_o unlawful_a to_o offer_v it_o to_o god_n though_o there_o be_v none_o to_o communicate_v but_o very_o lawful_a good_a and_o holy_a so_o be_v it_o more_o perfect_a and_o as_o i_o may_v say_v in_o a_o certain_a sort_n more_o lawful_a where_o be_v some_o to_o communicate_v for_o than_o it_o have_v both_o the_o end_n for_o which_o it_o be_v ordain_v now_o what_o do_v this_o make_v for_o you_o sir_n knight_n or_o against_o we_o as_o also_o that_o which_o follow_v here_o to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v not_o any_o express_a mention_n among_o the_o ancients_n where_o none_o do_v communicate_v but_o the_o priest_n alone_o but_o only_a conjecture_n for_o no_o more_o be_v there_o any_o express_a mention_n to_o the_o contrary_a that_o no_o priest_n may_v nor_o ever_o do_v say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n which_o unless_o you_o can_v show_v in_o bellarmine_n you_o say_v nothing_o against_o we_o neither_o if_o you_o can_v show_v it_o shall_v you_o therefore_o say_v any_o thing_n for_o your_o own_o sacrificelesse_a communion_n which_o have_v no_o affinity_n with_o our_o mass_n the_o essence_n whereof_o consist_v in_o be_v a_o sacrifice_n and_o communion_n in_o be_v a_o participation_n of_o the_o same_o sacrifice_n your_o protestant_a communion_n be_v but_o a_o bit_n of_o unblessed_a bread_n and_o no_o participation_n of_o sacrifice_n for_o you_o absolute_o deny_v all_o manner_n of_o visible_a sacrifice_n in_o the_o church_n now_o for_o bellarmine_n conjecture_n it_o be_v true_a he_o give_v they_o no_o other_o name_n but_o of_o conjecture_n but_o they_o be_v such_o as_o may_v with_o great_a probability_n persuade_v any_o indifferent_a man_n to_o conclude_v that_o many_o time_n and_o i_o may_v say_v much_o more_o frequent_o the_o priest_n say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n then_o with_o they_o and_o the_o lest_o of_o they_o be_v such_o that_o if_o you_o have_v but_o half_a such_o a_o one_o for_o any_o point_n you_o hold_v you_o will_v vaunt_v it_o and_o triumph_n as_o if_o you_o have_v a_o unanswearable_a demonstration_n but_o be_v it_o so_o or_o be_v it_o not_o of_o some_o of_o the_o people_n communicate_v whensoever_o the_o priest_n say_v mass_n what_o make_v it_o to_o our_o purpose_n which_o be_v whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o say_v mass_n without_o communicant_n or_o not_o they_o do_v not_o will_v you_o say_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n i_o ask_v what_o then_o may_v not_o we_o now_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v every_o day_n then_o must_v every_o body_n communicate_v now_o therefore_o every_o day_n all_o give_v their_o good_n away_o and_o live_v in_o common_a must_v every_o body_n do_v so_o now_o i_o believe_v sir_n knight_n you_o will_v not_o like_v that_o so_o well_o if_o the_o people_n devotion_n grow_v so_o cold_a as_o not_o to_o participate_v sacramental_o of_o the_o sacrifice_n must_v the_o priest_n grow_v so_o cold_a also_o as_o not_o even_o to_o offer_v sacrifice_n for_o his_o own_o and_o the_o people_n sin_n this_o be_v no_o good_a council_n sir_n humphrey_n almighty_a god_n reprehend_v it_o by_o his_o prophet_n 24.2_o isay_n 24.2_o that_o the_o priest_n be_v grow_v like_o the_o people_n sicut_fw-la populus_fw-la sic_fw-la sacerdos_n we_o can_v be_v glad_a sir_n if_o you_o can_v help_v to_o mend_v the_o people_n but_o not_o mar_v the_o priest_n which_o you_o will_v do_v enkindle_v their_o devotion_n not_o destroy_v their_o faith_n nor_o take_v away_o the_o holy_a sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n which_o afford_v many_o benefit_n even_o to_o not_o communicant_n though_o not_o so_o much_o as_o to_o they_o that_o do_v communicate_v sacramental_o but_o what_o do_v i_o in_o this_o discourse_n here_o it_o be_v enough_o to_o show_v that_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o patronize_v you_o nor_o weaken_v us._n the_o two_o place_n follow_v touch_v prayer_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n and_o communion_n under_o both_o kind_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n be_v also_o answer_v before_o &_o be_v only_o of_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o argument_n with_o this_o the_o 6._o place_n which_o be_v as_o if_o bell._n teach_v your_o two_o sacrament_n be_v answer_v in_o two_o place_n upon_o several_a occasion_n fine_n chap._n 9_o §._o 4_o fine_a and_z ch_z 10._o fine_n and_o in_o both_o be_v show_v your_o notorious_a corruption_n both_o of_o word_n &_o sense_n 2._o now_o for_o your_o two_o last_o testimony_n which_o you_o bring_v not_o before_o i_o shall_v here_o examine_v one_o you_o tell_v we_o be_v touch_v faith_n and_o good_a work_n of_o which_o say_v you_o it_o be_v bellarmine_n confession_n 6._o bell_n lib._n 3._o the_o â—ustif_a cap._n 6._o that_o the_o protestant_n do_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o faith_n &_o repentance_n be_v requisite_a that_o be_v a_o lively_a faith_n and_o earnest_a repentance_n and_o that_o without_o they_o no_o man_n can_v be_v justify_v to_o this_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o you_o propound_v the_o matter_n very_o imperfect_o and_o ignorant_o in_o say_v thus_o touch_v faith_n and_o good_a work_n it_o be_v bellarmine_n confession_n etc._n etc._n not_o tell_v we_o the_o particular_a controversy_n for_o which_o you_o bring_v this_o say_n of_o bellarmine_n there_o be_v more_o controversy_n than_o one_o between_o you_o and_o we_o as_o whither_o any_o thing_n be_v needful_a to_o justification_n beside_o faith_n or_o what_o faith_n it_o be_v that_o justifi_v and_o how_o and_o whither_o good_a work_n be_v necessary_a or_o no_o and_o how_o they_o concur_v for_o there_o be_v all_o these_o thing_n and_o more_o in_o question_n between_o you_o and_o us._n and_o a_o man_n will_v have_v think_v by_o your_o general_a title_n of_o faith_n and_o work_v it_o have_v be_v in_o proof_n of_o some_o of_o these_o that_o you_o have_v bring_v bellarm._n but_o it_o be_v for_o no_o such_o matter_n bellarmine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v handle_v a_o clean_a different_a question_n to_o wit_n whether_o a_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a of_o his_o own_o grace_n and_o justice_n that_o be_v whether_o he_o be_v in_o the_o grace_n and_o favour_n of_o almighty_a god_n or_o not_o and_o for_o proof_n that_o a_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a thereof_o he_o bring_v diverse_a place_n of_o scripture_n which_o imply_v a_o condition_n on_o our_o part_n in_o our_o justification_n as_o if_o we_o turn_v to_o god_n if_o we_o seek_v he_o in_o our_o whole_a hart_n if_o we_o do_v penance_n if_o we_o believe_v if_o we_o do_v his_o will_n etc._n etc._n god_n will_v turn_v to_o we_o forgive_v our_o sin_n and_o the_o like_a which_o condition_n say_v
bellarmine_n we_o can_v be_v certain_a whether_o we_o fulfil_v or_o not_o and_o consequent_o we_o can_v be_v certain_a of_o our_o grace_n and_o justice_n and_o he_o say_v these_o place_n be_v so_o manifest_a that_o our_o adversary_n can_v deny_v something_o to_o be_v requisite_a on_o our_o part_n for_o though_o say_v he_o they_o deny_v the_o remission_n of_o sin_n to_o depend_v upon_o the_o condition_n of_o work_n or_o our_o penance_n faith_n or_o other_o act_n to_o be_v the_o cause_n or_o merit_n of_o justification_n yet_o they_o grant_v they_o to_o be_v requisite_a and_o that_o without_o they_o a_o man_n can_v be_v justify_v this_o be_v bellarmine_n discourse_n wherein_o he_o do_v neither_o confess_v any_o good_a of_o your_o haeretique_n nor_o any_o way_n allow_v or_o approve_v your_o say_n as_o you_o will_v make_v one_o think_v but_o bring_v your_o own_o confession_n against_o you_o and_o even_o by_o so_o much_o as_o you_o confess_v though_o that_o be_v far_o from_o enough_o overthrow_v another_o error_n of_o you_o to_o wit_n your_o vain_a confidence_n and_o certainty_n of_o your_o justification_n now_o then_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v not_o this_o honest_a deal_n in_o you_o to_o take_v a_o word_n speak_v by_o bellarmine_n for_o one_o purpose_n and_o to_o transfer_v it_o to_o another_o far_o different_a and_o again_o in_o favour_n of_o yourself_o to_o allege_v those_o word_n out_o of_o bellarmine_n as_o his_o confession_n which_o he_o allege_v only_o for_o you_o and_o to_o take_v it_o so_o as_o if_o his_o allegation_n be_v a_o approbation_n or_o allowance_n of_o they_o whereas_o he_o bring_v they_o but_o in_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o objection_n against_o yourselves_o and_o there_o withal_o plain_o declare_v the_o difference_n between_o your_o error_n and_o our_o faith_n that_o you_o will_v not_o have_v faith_n or_o work_v to_o be_v any_o cause_n or_o merit_n of_o justification_n nor_o justification_n to_o depend_v upon_o work_n as_o upon_o a_o condition_n whereas_o we_o teach_v all_o the_o contrary_a which_o though_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o stand_v to_o prove_v there_o because_o that_o be_v not_o a_o place_n for_o it_o yet_o he_o plain_o show_v that_o to_o be_v his_o belief_n 3._o the_o second_o place_n of_o bellarmine_n you_o say_v be_v touch_v justification_n by_o faith_n only_o wherein_o you_o tell_v we_o he_o conclude_v with_o the_o reform_a church_n say_v that_o either_o a_o man_n have_v true_a merit_n or_o he_o have_v not_o if_o he_o have_v not_o he_o be_v dangerous_o deceive_v if_o he_o have_v true_a merit_n he_o lose_v nothing_o by_o not_o respect_v they_o but_o put_v his_o trust_n in_o god_n only_o but_o in_o this_o again_o as_o before_o and_o every_o where_o else_o you_o still_o line_v it_o egregious_o for_o here_o you_o make_v as_o if_o bellarmine_n do_v allow_v of_o your_o justification_n by_o faith_n only_o whereas_o he_o confute_v the_o same_o large_o and_o learned_o for_o 13._o 1._o lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr iustif_a cap._n 1._o whole_a chapter_n together_o begin_v his_o disputation_n thus_o hominem_fw-la non_fw-la sola_fw-la fide_fw-la iustificari_fw-la 5._o argumentis_fw-la principalibus_fw-la demonstrare_fw-la conabimur_fw-la we_o will_v endeavour_v by_o 5._o principal_a argument_n to_o demonstrate_v that_o a_o man_n be_v not_o justify_v by_o faith_n only_o how_o then_o do_v he_o conclude_v with_o your_o reform_a church_n he_o conclude_v against_o they_o &_o you_o tell_v we_o he_o conclude_v with_o they_o and_o this_o place_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o he_o be_v above_o 50._o leaf_n from_o that_o where_o he_o begin_v to_o treat_v of_o justification_n by_o faith_n and_o be_v a_o argument_n for_o a_o far_o different_a matter_n to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v most_o safe_a for_o a_o man_n though_o he_o may_v put_v some_o trust_n in_o his_o own_o good_a work_n yet_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o uncertainty_n he_o have_v of_o his_o own_o justice_n and_o danger_n of_o vain_a glory_n not_o to_o put_v any_o trust_n in_o they_o but_o all_o in_o god_n this_o late_a part_n whereof_o there_o be_v no_o controversy_n between_o we_o and_o protestant_n bellarmine_n prove_v by_o the_o reason_n here_o bring_v because_o if_o he_o have_v not_o true_a merit_n he_o deceive_v himself_o but_o if_o he_o have_v and_o yet_o trust_v not_o in_o they_o he_o lose_v nothing_o by_o not_o trust_v in_o they_o and_o what_o be_v all_o this_o good_a sir_n humphrey_n to_o your_o justification_n by_o faith_n only_o and_o consequent_o all_o that_o you_o have_v say_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n in_o this_o section_n to_o the_o antiquity_n and_o safety_n of_o your_o doctrine_n or_o the_o contrary_a of_o we_o not_o one_o word_n to_o any_o such_o purpose_n on_o either_o side_n and_o therefore_o all_o be_v but_o vain_a brag_n wherewith_o you_o conclude_v hereupon_o that_o our_o best_a learned_a confess_v that_o many_o principal_a point_n of_o their_o own_o religion_n yea_o many_o article_n of_o faith_n be_v neither_o ancient_a safe_a nor_o catholic_a wherein_o you_o speak_v ignorant_o in_o distinguish_v principal_a point_n of_o religion_n from_o article_n of_o faith_n for_o though_o every_o proposition_n which_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la be_v not_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n yet_o every_o principal_a point_n be_v and_o therefore_o some_o give_v that_o for_o the_o reason_n why_o we_o call_v a_o point_n a_o article_n to_o wit_n because_o it_o be_v a_o principal_a point_n but_o this_o be_v but_o to_o show_v that_o you_o can_v speak_v two_o word_n sound_o without_o falter_v and_o yet_o you_o must_v be_v show_v man_n the_o way_n forsooth_o 4._o have_v then_o say_v all_o you_o can_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n you_o tell_v we_o it_o be_v not_o the_o name_n of_o catholic_n which_o we_o assume_v that_o make_v good_a the_o catholic_a doctrine_n neither_o the_o opinion_n of_o learning_n or_o multitude_n of_o our_o side_n that_o must_v outface_v the_o truth_n for_o say_v your_o our_o saviour_n do_v special_o note_v the_o member_n of_o his_o body_n by_o the_o name_n of_o a_o little_a flock_n as_o if_o the_o paucity_n of_o true_a believer_n be_v the_o special_a character_n of_o the_o true_a church_n and_o for_o our_o learned_a you_o bring_v a_o say_n of_o s._n paul_n to_o the_o corinthian_n 1.26_o 1._o cor._n 1.26_o not_o many_o wise_a according_a to_o the_o flesh_n not_o many_o mighty_a 25._o mat._n 11_o 25._o not_o many_o noble_a and_o another_o out_o of_o s._n matthew_n i_o thank_v thou_o father_n because_o thou_o have_v hide_v these_o thing_n from_o the_o wise_a and_o prudent_a and_o have_v reveal_v they_o to_o babe_n and_o then_o you_o will_v we_o to_o reflect_v upon_o our_o own_o church_n and_o we_o shall_v find_v the_o mark_n of_o a_o false_a church_n foretell_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v after_o the_o work_n of_o satan_n with_o all_o power_n and_o sign_n and_o lie_v wonder_n and_o after_o a_o little_a of_o this_o rave_a talk_n you_o conclude_v with_o s._n augustine_n that_o miracle_n be_v not_o now_o to_o be_v expect_v thus_o you_o troll_v it_o out_o sir_n humphrey_n where_o first_o to_o begin_v with_o i_o may_v ask_v what_o all_o this_o be_v to_o that_o which_o the_o title_n of_o your_o section_n promise_v to_o wit_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o your_o doctrine_n out_o of_o bellarmine_n but_o that_o it_o seem_v prove_v but_o dry_a matter_n you_o take_v yourself_o the_o freedom_n without_o regard_n to_o the_o consequence_n of_o your_o discourse_n to_o talk_v of_o the_o church_n of_o miracle_n strong_a delusion_n and_o other_o such_o stuff_n good_a for_o nothing_o but_o to_o fill_v paper_n but_o this_o very_a discourse_n for_o the_o matter_n itself_o show_v your_o wit_n for_o you_o can_v have_v say_v nothing_o more_o to_o the_o advantage_n of_o our_o cause_n nor_o more_o to_o the_o disadvantage_n of_o your_o own_o for_o you_o show_v we_o to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n your_o own_o a_o false_a one_o which_o to_o be_v so_o i_o shall_v show_v not_o in_o my_o own_o word_n but_o in_o s._n augustine_n who_o give_v account_n what_o it_o be_v that_o keep_v he_o in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o church_n reckon_v these_o very_a thing_n which_o you_o make_v so_o little_a account_n of_o as_o miracle_n multitude_n of_o people_n and_o the_o very_a name_n of_o catholic_a and_o i_o may_v say_v also_o learning_n 4._o aug._n count_v ep_v fundam_fw-la cap._n 4._o for_o answer_v that_o epistle_n of_o the_o manichee_n call_v epistola_fw-la fundamenti_fw-la he_o begin_v his_o discourse_n thus_o in_o catholica_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la ut_fw-la omittam_fw-la sincerissimam_fw-la sapientiam_fw-la etc._n etc._n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o the_o most_o sincere_a wisdom_n wherein_o by_o mention_v this_o wisdom_n in_o such_o manner_n every_o man_n see_v that_o to_o he_o it_o be_v a_o motive_n though_o he_o do_v not_o so_o much_o urge_v
the_o doctrine_n of_o justification_n and_o doctrine_n of_o merit_n as_o they_o be_v deliver_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n every_o catholic_a be_v bind_v to_o give_v his_o life_n as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v for_o adoration_n of_o image_n whereas_o he_o ask_v whether_o any_o of_o these_o 33._o be_v canonize_v for_o it_o it_o be_v a_o idle_a question_n for_o man_n be_v canonize_v not_o for_o matter_n of_o belief_n only_o but_o for_o practice_v of_o faith_n hope_n charity_n and_o all_o virtue_n together_o which_o belong_v to_o a_o holy_a and_o christian_a life_n in_o general_a and_o to_o their_o own_o particular_a state_n and_o vocation_n and_o though_o there_o be_v no_o special_a mention_n of_o any_o of_o those_o 33._o their_o adoration_n of_o image_n yet_o define_v which_o before_o be_v not_o and_o which_o then_o man_n be_v not_o so_o certain_a of_o nor_o so_o bind_v to_o believe_v as_o after_o so_o consequent_o man_n may_v be_v less_o bind_v to_o suffer_v death_n for_o it_o then_o then_o afterward_o and_o yet_o be_v of_o the_o same_o faith_n with_o those_o that_o come_v after_o so_o long_o as_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o church_n and_o live_v in_o the_o unity_n thereof_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o power_n and_o authority_n to_o determine_v matter_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v certain_a those_o ancient_a martyr_n do_v as_o appear_v both_o by_o their_o own_o writing_n yet_o extant_a and_o their_o deed_n record_v by_o other_o man_n in_o good_a authentical_a history_n these_o holy_a martyr_n therefore_o be_v true_o we_o which_o if_o this_o knight_n will_v disprove_v he_o must_v show_v which_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v otherwise_o that_o be_v against_o that_o uhich_v we_o now_o believe_v which_o till_o he_o can_v do_v we_o shall_v still_o be_v in_o possession_n of_o our_o martyr_n and_o of_o their_o faith_n our_o faith_n testify_v that_o we_o be_v their_o child_n and_o their_o blood_n give_v testimony_n to_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o faith_n of_o the_o 17._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 17._o chap._n 17._o our_o adversary_n common_a objection_n draw_v from_o the_o charitable_a opinion_n of_o protestant_n touch_v the_o salvation_n of_o profess_a romanist_n live_v and_o die_v in_o their_o church_n answer_v chapter_n xvii_o 1._o this_o section_n be_v nothing_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o natural_a language_n and_o therefore_o will_v soon_o be_v answer_v he_o begin_v with_o a_o say_n of_o costerus_n that_o a_o man_n die_v a_o lutheran_n can_v be_v save_v whereupon_o he_o fall_v in_o to_o a_o great_a rage_n against_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o tell_v we_o there_o be_v a_o woman_n a_o church_n a_o city_n which_o reign_v over_o the_o king_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o have_v multitude_n of_o nation_n at_o her_o command_n but_o he_o thank_v god_n his_o church_n be_v not_o such_o a_o one_o neither_o do_v protestans_fw-la as_o he_o say_v account_v universality_n of_o nation_n and_o people_n to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o their_o church_n and_o from_o thence_o he_o fall_v to_o reckon_v up_o diverse_a particular_a point_n of_o his_o church_n doctrine_n as_o disclaim_v of_o merit_n communion_n in_o both_o kind_n read_v of_o scripture_n and_o bring_v a_o place_n of_o scripture_n for_o each_o of_o these_o he_o ask_v very_o rhetorical_o after_o every_o one_o whether_o they_o be_v accurse_v for_o hold_v they_o and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n ask_v whether_o we_o can_v be_v bless_v that_o forbid_v marriage_n &_o meat_n that_o have_v prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n adore_v image_n adore_v saint_n adore_v the_o element_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n we_o that_o add_v tradition_n to_o the_o scripture_n and_o detract_v from_o god_n commandment_n and_o christ_n institution_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o discourse_n of_o his_o be_v so_o foolish_a as_o it_o be_v a_o man_n may_v think_v it_o folly_n for_o i_o to_o stand_v answer_v particular_o therefore_o i_o answer_v brief_o and_o in_o general_a first_o that_o though_o it_o take_v up_o half_a his_o section_n yet_o it_o be_v whole_o from_o his_o purpose_n which_o he_o pretend_v by_o the_o title_n of_o his_o chapter_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v our_o objection_n second_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o those_o thing_n which_o he_o object_v unto_o we_o they_o be_v all_o answer_v before_o and_o prove_v some_o false_a for_o the_o thing_n wherewith_o he_o charge_v we_o all_o absurd_a if_o we_o consider_v the_o proof_n of_o scripture_n which_o he_o bring_v for_o example_n he_o tell_v we_o we_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n both_o which_o be_v most_o gross_o false_a for_o how_o many_o catholic_n be_v there_o in_o england_n man_n and_o woman_n marry_v and_o what_o meat_n be_v there_o that_o catholic_n be_v forbid_v to_o eat_v in_o due_a time_n and_o season_n be_v it_o all_o one_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n to_o some_o man_n to_o wit_n such_o as_o have_v voluntary_o promise_v the_o contrary_a and_o some_o meat_n at_o some_o time_n all_o one_o i_o say_v as_o to_o forbid_v marriage_n and_o meat_n neither_o marriage_n nor_o meat_n be_v forbid_v in_o these_o case_n as_o ill_o in_o themselves_o in_o which_o sense_n only_o saint_n paul_n term_v it_o the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n but_o for_o high_a end_n but_o to_o make_v he_o yet_o a_o little_a more_o capable_a of_o this_o answer_n i_o will_v urge_v he_o with_o one_o ordinary_a instance_n which_o be_v this_o i_o presume_v his_o father_n have_v some_o apprentice_n bind_v not_o to_o marry_v during_o his_o apprenticeship_n i_o will_v then_o know_v of_o he_o whither_o his_o father_n in_o that_o case_n do_v forbid_v marriage_n and_o teach_v the_o doctrine_n of_o devil_n 2._o against_o prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n he_o say_v it_o be_v write_v with_o man_n of_o other_o tongue_n and_o other_o lip_n will_v i_o speak_v unto_o this_o people_n and_o so_o they_o shall_v not_o hear_v i_o and_o in_o the_o margin_n say_v it_o be_v a_o curse_n at_o the_o build_n of_o babel_n for_o they_o that_o understand_v not_o what_o be_v speak_v but_o by_o this_o allege_v of_o scripture_n a_o man_n may_v see_v what_o a_o good_a thing_n it_o be_v to_o have_v it_o in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n for_o every_o man_n to_o read_v and_o abuse_v it_o at_o his_o pleasure_n when_o such_o a_o right_n learned_a man_n as_o this_o knight_n do_v so_o strange_o apply_v it_o he_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v esay_n the_o prophet_n speak_v against_o latin_a in_o this_o place_n but_o the_o man_n be_v quite_o wide_a of_o his_o mark_n but_o it_o be_v enough_o for_o he_o that_o there_o be_v mention_n of_o a_o strange_a tongue_n there_o for_o as_o for_o the_o sense_n he_o care_v not_o or_o rather_o his_o read_n reach_v not_o to_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o place_n which_o be_v but_o this_o that_o whereas_o the_o people_n laugh_v at_o the_o prophet_n that_o come_v to_o they_o with_o command_n from_o god_n repeat_v their_o word_n scoff_o manda_fw-la remanda_fw-fr 28.11_o isa_n 28.11_o expecta_fw-la reexpecta_fw-la etc._n etc._n god_n send_v they_o word_n by_o the_o prophet_n that_o because_o they_o will_v not_o hear_v those_o word_n nor_o follow_v the_o good_a counsel_n which_o he_o give_v he_o will_v speak_v another_o word_n unto_o they_o that_o they_o shall_v fall_v &_o be_v catch_v crush_v and_o carry_v into_o captivity_n and_o there_o hear_v a_o language_n which_o they_o do_v not_o understand_v this_o be_v the_o plain_a and_o literal_a sense_n of_o the_o prophet_n s._n paul_n indeed_o use_v it_o in_o another_o sense_n to_o persuade_v the_o corinthian_n that_o prophecy_n be_v to_o be_v prefer_v before_o tongue_n because_o as_o he_o say_v the_o gift_n of_o tongue_n be_v a_o sign_n for_o infidel_n that_o be_v to_o speak_v to_o infidel_n for_o their_o conversion_n but_o prophecy_n that_o be_v exhortation_n or_o interpretation_n be_v for_o the_o faithful_a or_o those_o that_o believe_v already_o wherein_o i_o will_v know_v according_a to_o either_o explication_n what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v against_o prayer_n in_o the_o latin_a tongue_n and_o for_o the_o tower_n of_o babel_n the_o knight_n sure_o speak_v by_o contrary_n for_o whereas_o at_o babel_n man_n fall_v from_o unity_n of_o language_n to_o speak_v every_o man_n a_o several_a language_n so_o as_o no_o one_o man_n understand_v one_o another_o &_o by_o that_o mean_v they_o be_v all_o disperse_v into_o several_a nation_n the_o catholic_a church_n do_v quite_o contrary_a draw_v several_a nation_n to_o unity_n of_o language_n make_v all_o to_o speak_v one_o and_o the_o sâ—me_a tongue_n whereas_o haeretique_n in_o several_a place_n by_o use_n of_o other_o language_n understand_v not_o one_o the_o other_o and_o therein_o most_o perfect_o resemble_v the_o babel-builder_n as_o well_o in_o the_o very_a diversity_n of_o tongue_n as_o in_o the_o diversity_n of_o
doctrine_n 3._o for_o tradition_n adoration_n of_o image_n saint_n etc._n etc._n all_o be_v answer_v before_o so_o likewise_o his_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o merit_n of_o good_a work_n but_o for_o that_o which_o he_o say_v that_o he_o acknowledge_v universality_n of_o nation_n and_o people_n not_o to_o be_v a_o mark_n of_o his_o church_n i_o can_v but_o wonder_v at_o it_o for_o what_o be_v this_o but_o even_o in_o plain_a term_n to_o confess_v his_o church_n not_o to_o be_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n 2._o isa_n 2._o isay_n the_o prophet_n describe_v the_o church_n under_o the_o type_n of_o a_o mountain_n say_v that_o all_o nation_n shall_v flow_v unto_o it_o 71._o psal_n 71._o 2._o psal_n 2._o the_o prophet_n david_n describe_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n say_v that_o he_o shall_v bear_v sway_n from_o sea_n to_o sea_n â—_o dan._n 2.3_o â—_o that_o god_n will_v give_v he_o nation_n for_o his_o inhaeritance_n and_o the_o bound_n of_o the_o earth_n for_o his_o possession_n 9â—_n apoc._n 7_o 9â—_n daniel_n describe_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n like_o a_o mountain_n grow_v from_o a_o little_a stone_n and_o fill_v the_o whole_a earth_n s._n john_n see_v a_o multitude_n which_o no_o man_n can_v reckon_v of_o all_o nation_n and_o tribe_n and_o people_n and_o tongue_n this_o be_v also_o the_o thing_n wherein_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v special_o distinguish_v from_o the_o synagogue_n of_o the_o jew_n that_o that_o pertain_v but_o to_o one_o nation_n this_o to_o all_o the_o nation_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o all_o the_o father_n proclaim_v nothing_o more_o particular_o s._n augustine_n in_o a_o whole_a book_n of_o this_o argument_n against_o the_o donatist_n and_o a_o knight_n to_o come_v and_o tell_v we_o he_o do_v not_o account_v this_o as_o a_o mark_n of_o his_o church_n what_o be_v this_o but_o in_o plain_a term_n to_o acknowledge_v that_o his_o church_n be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n beside_o i_o will_v know_v what_o he_o have_v mean_v all_o this_o while_n by_o universality_n which_o he_o have_v labour_v to_o prove_v to_o belong_v to_o his_o doctrine_n the_o principal_n thing_n understand_v by_o universality_n when_o we_o take_v it_o for_o a_o note_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o universality_n of_o place_n to_o wit_n 16.15_o mar._n 16.15_o diverse_a kingdom_n and_o country_n as_o it_o be_v use_v by_o our_o saviour_n himself_o euntes_fw-la in_o mundum_fw-la universum_fw-la praedicate_fw-la evangelium_fw-la omni_fw-la creaturae_fw-la and_o now_o in_o deny_v this_o mark_n to_o belong_v to_o his_o church_n do_v he_o not_o deny_v it_o to_o belong_v to_o his_o doctrine_n for_o how_o can_v that_o doctrine_n be_v universal_a that_o be_v teach_v by_o a_o few_o and_o in_o a_o corner_n of_o the_o world_n and_o in_o acknowledge_v his_o church_n not_o to_o be_v universal_a do_v he_o not_o acknowledge_v it_o not_o to_o be_v catholic_a for_o be_v not_o catholic_n and_o universal_a all_o one_o as_o all_o man_n know_v in_o this_o word_n then_o he_o have_v grant_v enough_o to_o overthrow_v all_o that_o ever_o he_o have_v say_v or_o can_v say_v of_o his_o church_n 4._o but_o now_o to_o come_v to_o the_o matter_n which_o he_o purpose_v in_o this_o section_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v our_o argument_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a for_o a_o man_n to_o take_v the_o way_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n than_o the_o protestant_n because_o even_a protestant_n agree_v with_o catholic_n in_o this_o that_o they_o may_v be_v save_v in_o their_o religion_n and_o catholic_n deny_v that_o protestant_n can_v be_v save_v this_o argument_n the_o knight_n deni_v be_v sorry_a for_o his_o part_n that_o a_o charitable_a opinion_n on_o the_o protestant_n part_n shall_v give_v any_o romanist_n occasion_n to_o live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o that_o church_n therefore_o he_o interprete_v that_o say_n to_o be_v mean_v only_o of_o such_o as_o by_o invincible_a ignorance_n resign_v their_o eyesight_n to_o their_o priest_n &_o pastor_n which_o man_n if_o they_o hold_v the_o article_n of_o christian_a belief_n without_o opposition_n to_o any_o ground_n of_o religion_n and_o live_v for_o outward_a thing_n in_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n such_o man_n he_o say_v live_v papist_n and_o die_a protestant_n in_o the_o principal_a foundation_n of_o faith_n may_v find_v mercy_n because_o they_o do_v it_o ignorant_o but_o such_o papist_n he_o say_v as_o live_v in_o state_n and_o kingdom_n where_o they_o may_v come_v to_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o will_v not_o these_o man_n die_v in_o their_o sin_n though_o yet_o again_o he_o a_o little_a temper_n the_o rigour_n of_o this_o doom_n in_o say_v he_o will_v not_o judge_v their_o person_n though_o he_o pronounce_v their_o doctrine_n so_o damnable_a as_o that_o if_o he_o have_v 10000_o soul_n he_o will_v not_o venture_v one_o of_o they_o in_o the_o roman_a faith_n and_o church_n for_o which_o he_o take_v god_n and_o his_o holy_a angel_n to_o witness_v and_o then_o conclude_v very_o pathetical_o thus_o farr_n be_v it_o from_o the_o thought_n of_o good_a man_n to_o think_v the_o point_n in_o controversy_n betwixt_o they_o and_o we_o to_o be_v of_o a_o inferior_a alloy_n as_o that_o a_o man_n may_v resolve_v this_o way_n or_o that_o without_o peril_n of_o his_o salvation_n and_o then_o tell_v we_o the_o fresh_a bleed_a wound_n and_o suffering_n of_o holy_a man_n and_o martyr_n in_o his_o church_n do_v sufficient_o witness_v the_o great_a danger_n in_o our_o religion_n and_o difference_n betwixt_o we_o and_o that_o we_o may_v know_v that_o the_o best_a learned_a of_o his_o church_n be_v far_o from_o grant_v salvation_n to_o any_o papist_n live_v and_o die_v in_o the_o profession_n of_o the_o now_o roman_a faith_n he_o bring_v a_o say_n of_o whitaker_n who_o will_v have_v we_o take_v it_o upon_o his_o word_n that_o in_o heaven_n there_o be_v not_o one_o jesuit_n nor_o one_o papist_n to_o be_v find_v this_o be_v the_o knight_n whole_a discourse_n in_o 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and_o die_v in_o our_o present_a roman_a faith_n may_v be_v save_v or_o not_o wherein_o though_o the_o knight_n be_v very_o persuade_v we_o can_v allege_v whitaker_n authority_n for_o the_o same_o and_o say_v that_o the_o best_a learned_a of_o his_o church_n have_v be_v far_o from_o grant_v salvation_n to_o any_o papist_n be_v withal_o so_o zealous_a and_o earnest_a in_o this_o belief_n as_o he_o wish_v it_o far_o from_o the_o thought_n of_o good_a man_n to_o think_v so_o yet_o by_o his_o worship_n leave_n it_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o many_o great_a man_n of_o his_o church_n nothing_o inferior_n in_o that_o which_o he_o take_v for_o learning_n and_o goodness_n to_o mr._n whitaker_n or_o any_o man_n else_o of_o his_o opinion_n for_o example_n mr._n d._n barrow_n say_v he_o dare_v not_o deny_v the_o name_n of_o christian_n to_o the_o romanist_n since_o the_o learnede_a writer_n do_v acknowledge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n if_o the_o church_n of_o 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to_o the_o same_o purpose_n as_o d._n field_n and_o dr._n morton_n say_v that_o we_o be_v to_o be_v account_v the_o church_n of_o god_n who_o word_n may_v be_v see_v in_o the_o protestant_n apology_n 3._o tract_n 1._o sect._n 6._o sub._n 1._o 2._o 3._o but_o these_o may_v serve_v the_o turn_n i_o hope_v full_o to_o disprove_v your_o assertion_n sir_n knight_n for_o here_o be_v 7._o author_n allege_v who_o your_o church_n of_o england_n have_v ever_o hold_v for_o good_a and_o learned_a man_n from_o who_o thought_n it_o be_v not_o so_o far_o as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o to_o think_v we_o may_v be_v save_v but_o rather_o so_o deep_o ground_v that_o they_o aver_v it_o constant_o and_o say_v also_o that_o it_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o all_o learned_a protestant_n and_o that_o it_o be_v absurd_a to_o think_v otherwise_o do_v you_o not_o then_o see_v sir_n humphrey_n what_o a_o linder_n you_o show_v yourself_o upon_o one_o witakers_n authority_n to_o determine_v a_o matter_n so_o peremptory_o against_o the_o judgement_n of_o so_o many_o great_a doctor_n of_o your_o own_o side_n and_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o best_a learned_a protestant_n and_o that_o it_o be_v far_o from_o the_o thought_n of_o goodman_n to_o think_v otherwise_o what_o may_v a_o man_n think_v by_o this_o you_o do_v with_o our_o catholic_a author_n and_o father_n who_o you_o neither_o have_v so_o much_o to_o do_v with_o nor_o understand_v so_o well_o nor_o care_n so_o much_o for_o as_o you_o do_v for_o these_o sage_a man_n forsooth_o of_o your_o own_o the_o pillar_n of_o your_o church_n and_o write_v in_o your_o own_o mother_n tongue_n whereof_o it_o be_v to_o be_v presume_v you_o can_v skill_n a_o little_a more_o then_o of_o latin_a but_o now_o for_o the_o main_a matter_n or_o argument_n which_o you_o intend_v to_o answer_n how_o be_v it_o answer_v you_o see_v so_o many_o learned_a protestant_n think_v we_o may_v be_v save_v live_v and_o die_v in_o our_o faith_n without_o your_o limitation_n of_o invincible_a ignorance_n and_o mere_o in_o regard_n we_o be_v a_o true_a church_n the_o family_n of_o christ_n the_o house_n of_o god_n hold_v the_o foundation_n of_o faith_n and_o that_o the_o point_n of_o controversy_n be_v not_o of_o such_o necessary_a consequence_n who_o number_n and_o authority_n though_o perhaps_o it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o reform_v your_o judgement_n yet_o to_o we_o it_o be_v sufficient_a to_o ground_v this_o argument_n that_o since_o protestant_a doctor_n make_v no_o doubt_n but_o we_o may_v be_v save_v in_o our_o faith_n and_o no_o doctor_n of_o we_o say_v so_o of_o your_o faith_n it_o be_v out_o of_o doubt_v the_o safe_a way_n to_o embrace_v we_o the_o force_n of_o which_o argument_n you_o go_v not_o about_o to_o avoid_v otherwise_o then_o by_o deny_v that_o to_o be_v the_o opinion_n of_o learned_a protestant_n which_o be_v prove_v to_o be_v so_o manifest_o the_o argument_n still_o have_v his_o force_n and_o the_o more_o because_o you_o can_v answer_n it_o and_o so_o i_o come_v to_o your_o last_o section_n 18._o chap._n 18._o of_o the_o 18._o section_n the_o title_n be_v this_o prove_v according_o to_o the_o title_n of_o the_o book_n by_o the_o confession_n of_o all_o side_n that_o the_o protestant_a religion_n be_v safe_a because_o in_o all_o positive_a point_n of_o our_o doctrine_n the_o romanist_n themselves_o agree_v with_o we_o but_o in_o their_o addition_n they_o stand_v single_a by_o themselves_o chapter_n xviii_o the_o substance_n of_o this_o section_n be_v contain_v in_o the_o title_n and_o in_o nothing_o but_o to_o turn_v the_o catholic_n argument_n mention_v in_o the_o former_a section_n the_o other_o way_n for_o the_o protestant_a side_n but_o yet_o so_o ill_o favoured_o that_o it_o may_v be_v turn_v back_o again_o with_o much_o more_o disadvantage_n of_o the_o protestant_a cause_n for_o by_o it_o a_o man_n may_v prove_v any_o haeresy_n that_o ever_o be_v nay_o judaisme_n and_o turkism_n to_o be_v a_o safe_a way_n than_o the_o catholic_a faith_n or_o even_o the_o knight_n protestant_n faith_n he_o begin_v then_o with_o put_v the_o case_n we_o may_v be_v save_v and_o then_o lay_v for_o a_o ground_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a to_o persist_v in_o that_o church_n where_o both_o side_n agree_v then_o where_o one_o part_n stand_v single_a in_o opinion_n add_v withal_o that_o if_o he_o make_v not_o good_a the_o title_n of_o his_o book_n to_o wit_n that_o he_o be_v in_o the_o safe_a way_n he_o will_v reconcile_v himself_o to_o the_o roman_a church_n &_o creep_v upon_o all_o four_o to_o his_o holiness_n for_o a_o pardon_n and_o then_o fall_v to_o prove_v it_o in_o this_o manner_n that_o because_o both_o agree_v say_v he_o in_o the_o belief_n of_o heaven_n and_o hell_n and_o that_o we_o stand_v single_a in_o the_o belief_n of_o purgatory_n and_o limbus_n puerorum_fw-la we_o be_v not_o therefore_o in_o so_o safe_a a_o way_n so_o of_o the_o merit_n and_o satisfaction_n of_o christ_n all_o agree_v that_o man_n be_v to_o be_v save_v by_o they_o but_o we_o stand_v single_a in_o the_o addition_n of_o the_o saint_n merit_n and_o our_o own_o satisfaction_n and_o so_o forward_o of_o the_o number_n of_o sacrament_n image_n prayer_n to_o saint_n &_o the_o like_a which_o be_v the_o whole_a discourse_n of_o this_o section_n 2._o whereto_o i_o answer_v first_o that_o that_o his_o ground_n of_o safety_n which_o he_o think_v he_o take_v from_o catholic_n be_v foolish_a impertinent_a and_o without_o sense_n as_o see_v set_v it_o down_o for_o thus_o he_o say_v it_o be_v the_o safe_a way_n to_o persist_v in_o that_o church_n where_o both_o side_n agree_v then_o where_o one_o part_n
stand_v single_a by_o themselves_o in_o opinion_n for_o i_o will_v know_v what_o church_n be_v that_o wherein_o there_o be_v two_o side_n to_o agree_v or_o disagree_v or_o what_o church_n that_o be_v that_o do_v not_o stand_v single_a in_o opinion_n by_o itself_o if_o it_o be_v a_o church_n of_o a_o different_a faith_n as_o we_o speak_v here_o of_o a_o church_n a_o church_n must_v have_v unity_n it_o be_v a_o company_n of_o man_n all_o profess_v the_o same_o faith_n and_o religion_n therefore_o it_o be_v plain_a there_o be_v no_o sense_n in_o this_o principle_n of_o he_o as_o it_o be_v he_o or_o as_o he_o put_v it_o down_o but_o as_o the_o catholic_n put_v it_o it_o have_v very_o good_a sense_n thus_o that_o whereas_o there_o be_v several_a profession_n and_o church_n the_o question_n be_v which_o of_o these_o be_v the_o safe_a way_n we_o catholic_n say_v the_o catholic_a church_n be_v the_o safe_a way_n and_o this_o we_o prove_v because_o not_o only_o we_o ourselves_o say_v it_o add_v 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