A SHORT ANSWER To A. S. ALIAS ADAM STEWART'S Second part of his overgrown Duply to the two Brethren Together with Certaine difficult questions easily answered All which A. Stewart is desired to consider of without replying unlesse it be to purpose A. Steuart in his second part of his Duply to the two Brethren page 166. The Civill Magistrate cannot bee Orthodox and tollerate a new Sect hee meanes Independencie and may as well say Presbytery unles hee tollerate us to beleeve that hee is either corrupted by moneys or some other waye so to doe Proverb 12. 13. The wicked is snared by the trasgression of his lips but the iust shall come out of trouble Printed in the Yeare 1644. THREE OF A STEVART'S CONCLVSIONS with their PARALELLS which are added for better explanation of them their contradicting of themselves and their rebellious Doctrine CONCLUSION 1. Pag. 105. The Supreame Ecclesiasticall Judicature itselfe may fear that if they judge any thing amisse their judgements will not bee approved and put in execution in perticular Churches and in all probability they are like to bee crossed iust as much as Independents aske for by this ensuing Paralell PARALELL Particular Churches or Congregations may examin the iudgements of the supreme Ecclesiastical Iudicature and if they find them to bee amisse they may refuse to put them in execution they may crosse them CONCLVSION 2. Pag. 30. The Civil Magistrate is subject in a spirituall way unto the Church Hee must learne Gods will by the Ministers of the Church who are Gods Ambassadours sent to him Hee must bee subject unto Ecclesiasticall Censures CONCLVSION 3. Pag. 166. Whatsoever the Ecclesiasticall Senate or Presbiterie is bound not to tolerate but must suppresse in the Church That the Civil Magistrate is bound not to tolerate but must suppresse in the State Neither is the Civil Magistrate lesse bound to put it out of the State than the Presbyterie is to put it out of the Church Exquisite Poperie Pestilent Doctrine as appeares yet more clearely by this following Paralell PARALELL If the Presbytery shall think good to excommunicate King or Parliament the Civil Magistrate the people in whom the Soveraign power residâ—s originally pag. 167. is absolved from all obedience and bound to put them out of the Civil State A TAST OF A. STEVART'S EXTRAVAGANCIES and contradictions in the second part of his Duply to the two Brethren Page 13. The Civill Magistrate even as Christian has power not to admit the true Religion to reject it yea when it is receaved or approved and confirmed by his secular and Civill authority to reject it and exile it If the Church bee corrupt and Church Officers negligent in their charge and will not reforme it as the Magistrate thinks good hee may command yea compell them to do it When the Church is reformed hee may command them when they are negligent to bee diligent in their charge If hee conceave they oppres any man in their Ecclesiastical judgements and censures against the lawes of the Kingdome hee may desire them yea command them to reverse their judgements and in case they reforme them not againe command them yea compel them by his Civill power to give him satisfaction according to the lawes of the Kingdome if hee conceave they derogate not from the lawes of God which neither Popish nor Turkish Magistrates will acknowledge though their lawes bee never so contrary to the word of God Page 166. The Civill Magistrate if hee follow Gods word cannot grant a tolleration of Independent Churches without consent of the Church if hee judge it is not corrupted as if the Church being corrupted the Magistrate may bee corrupt too and tolerate what hee will Page 47. How be it The Church compel not to subscribe yet the Civill Magistrate after sufficient conviction may compell to subscribe or to begon Pag. 179. What power hath the King or Parliament to intrude and force upon the Kingdome new religions or a tolleration of all Sects the Parliament assume no such power unto it selfe A short Answer to A. S. alias Adam Stewarts second part of his overgrown Duply to the two Brethren SIr Had you concealed your selfe under the two first letters of your name all the A. S'es in Towne and Country would never have beene able to cleare themselves for what you make but words of however I may not adde a tittle in commendation of you for Preamble to this Pamphlet as you tell us and is no more then requisite to justifie your own Epistle is ordinary with writers in dedication of their bookes least I bee put to a more shamefull recantation then A. S. was and that for nothing but what charitie as himselfe confesses induced him to acknowledge in behalfe of the Apologists Give mee leave then to observe first that pag. 21. 23. you say Idolatry is a sin against the second Commandment Juris naturalis perpetui insinuating that the power and duty of punishing both Idolatrie and Heresie is such also If so then it obliges all Nations of the world and consequently supposes them capable to judge of all manner of Idolatrie and Heresie which we see to bee notoriously false and that besides the confounding Ecclesiasticall with Civil power whilest one State punishes this or that for Heresie it cannot possibly bee otherwise since they are not onely different but diametrically opposite in profession but that another must canonize it for a sacred truth secondly if States and Powers must punish Hereticks they are bound to punish those for such onely who in their owne judgements are such and if you will engage States in punishing of Hereticks and they punish onely such as they find themselves obliged to punish in their own consciences and understandings How can you according to your doctrine blame them for punishing Gods dearest children instead of Hereticks since they tooke them to bee Hereticks and thought they had done God and you good service to punish them If wee may not suffer Hereticks to live amongst us then is the Parliament to blame for suffering German French Spanish and Portugal Papists or Dutch Brownists and Anabaptists to live here amonst us though as Marchants onely for a time since their marchandizing gives them greater advantage of working people to their opinions by the respective civil conveniences and benefits which they bring both to the whole Nation in generall and to some in particular nay the very Ambassadours of what States or Potentates soever of different religions ought not to bee permitted to reside Ledgers amongst us under any pretence if this doctrine bee Evangelicall So likewise may not wee under pretext of marchandize live in Turkish Popish Lutheran or other Countreys differing from us in religion travel into such parts for fashion sake as is usuall nor keepe Ambassadours there nor bee by forrain States permitted to remain amongst them if we would or on any termes joine with such in wedlock Man may by no meanes dispence herewith if the command
subjects are freed from their obedience to them and the people which having al power in themselves originally become the supremest Magistrate of al are bound to cut them off from the Civill State whether they be Kings or Parliaments But let us beware of such Infernal tenets according unto which there would be found no safety neither for Prince nor Parliament but each of them and everie body else all alike be forced to be of whatsoever religion shall by most voyces in a Consistorie or Synod be thought to be the true one which is too great a hazard or else be deemed to doe presumptuously and so loose their lives But ch. 3. you say if the Church be corrupt and the Church Officers negligent in their charge and will not reforme it the Civill Magistrate may command yea compell them to do it or if they will not he may extraordinarily do it himselfe Good now who shall here reach the Civil Magistrate whether the Church be corruptor no At what time the Church Officers be negligent in their charge not willing to reforme and when they oppresse any man with Ecclesiasticall censures If you say the Civil Magistrate himselfe may see it by bringing them to the rule of Gods word do you not contradict your selfe in page 30. and elsewhere saying the Civil Magistrate must learn Gods will by the Ministers who are Gods Ambassadours sent unto him is it possible to reconcile the Civil Magistrate unto the spirituall office-bearers in such a case as this nay is it ever possible for AS to make his atonement with this present Assembly for frustrating so many yeares endeavours as they are like to make of it in saying the Civil Magistrate hath power not to admit the true Church to reject it yea when it is received or approved and confirmed by his secular and Civil authority to reject it and exile it Ibid which yet is true enough but do you think the Synod would have taken soe great paines and our Scotch brethren have sacrificed so much of their own blood if even at best it should have been so hazardous whether ever their Presbyterian discipline should be received or no or when received rest in â—uch dayly danger to bee turned out againe with shame Is it not an eaâ—â—y matter for the Civil Magistrate to say these Presbyterian Churches are growne corrupt their way of government was never Apostolical and good they Tyrannize over their brethren insted of feeding them aiming at no Reformation soe much as to get themselves into the fattest Benifices and so banish them into America or some worse place Woe would it have beene for any Independent to have beene knowne to publish such Theologie such Heresie Page 47. You say How be it the Church compell men not by externall viâ—lâ—â—ce to subscribe contrary to their judgements yet the Civil Magistrate after sufficient conviction may compell you to subscribe or to be gon c. The Church you say compels not externally but the Civil Magistrate may But whence hath the Civil Magistrate this power in Church affaires or why may not the Church use the Civil externall armes in Church matters rather then the Civil Magistrate should eâ—terpose with his owne weapons in Church affaires Is it not all one think wee in the sight of God for Church-men Church Officers themselves to hang such a one whom they deeme a Heretick as to set a crosse a gallowes a marke upon him out of a tacit compact with the Civil Magistrate to hang him whensoever or wheresoever He should meet with him If a combination of any people should thus compasse the death of any man would they not all equally bee found guiltie shall a politick reservation of Popish Canon or Civil law to keepe the Clergie from the peoples odium thus delud all Christians to the end of the world may Church-men connive approve teach and applaud the Civil Magistrate in punishing whosoever they suppose to be Hereticks by imprisonment or death and not as innocently as Christianly bee executioners themselves Perhaps they will say they have no authority nor call to become executioners to banish imprison or put to death and yet they have as good a call as to approve it in the Civil Magistrate but this is not the poynt wee stand upon What if a Towne or Principality were giuen unto a company of Presbyterian Clergie-men I cannot think they will refuse it would they in such a case imprison banish or cause Hereticks to die in this their Principality If they say as the Pope in the same case as Pilate when he crucifide Iesus and Bishop Bâ—nner whilst he made so many Protestane Martyrs they may not wash their hands in the blood of Hereticks I reply neither in the blood of Civil delinquents by the selfe same principle of theirs If they referre such judicature and executing of Spirituall or Civil Offenders unto Laymen to be their deputies within this Principality of theirs I answere that this is but a Popish euaâ—ion and such blood being shed by their authority or approbation must be accounted for by them as if they themselves had sat upon the Bench passed sentence and beene executioners If Hereticks were punishable by death as murderers and Traitors I know no cause but that Clergie-men if neede were might as actually assist at execution of the one as of the other But if any man should expect my opinion of what these Presbyterian Clergie-men may doe upon the proffer of such a Principality I confesse the refusall thereof might seem a verie great degree of Evangelicall perfection and the excessive care and travel which is required to govern it though by a substitute are altogether inconsistent with the ministerie of the Gospel but to interpret the passing sentence and execution of death by such Deputies or their Officers to be so intirely the peculiar acts of such Deputies only as that the said Presbyterian Clergie-men from whom the jurisdiction is derived had not even as great a share therein as if they had beene present upon the bench is a meere Popish invention and delusion Our Saviour and his Apostles did neither tell the Magistrates that then were that it concerned them so much more to become Christians that they might compel their Subjects to be so too nor yet gave the Christians instructions or left upon record any such order or warrant that when ever the Magistrate did become Christian they might constraine the people to Christianity c. But in the same Pag. 74. you graunt these Spiritual Delinquents must be first sufficiently convinced alleadging that after a sufficient conviction it is morally and should be supposed that they know the truth or should know it or if they know it not that nothing can have blâ—dered them but their owne pertinaciousnes which cannot excuse but rather aggravates their â—in But what I pray or how much do you call sufficiently convinced How can any one do otherwise than yeeld unto whatsoever you have convinced him of
How can you bee infallibly assured that a man â—s sufficiently convinced if he himselfe denyes it How know you which is Gods â—â—oure for convincing of a man May not you likewise possibly interpret a dulnesse of apprehension in him or your owne want of truly and well informing him to bee his obstinate wilfull rejecting of the truth Are there not above 24 degrees of capacity and understanding between some men and shall such whom God and Nature have made more dull or lesse ingenious in judging of Presbyterian Discipline or Doctrin be condemned to banishment or death for these defects of Nature beleeving or discoursing about matters of beleefe or but opinion only Such you say the Civil Magistrate may compel to subscribe against their conscience or to bee gon But who gives the Civil Magistrate this authoritie Or how comes hee to know or understand them to bee Hereticks The Presbyterian Clergie-men I hope will be no more informers than executioners I am sure in most of such as are aleadged to bee Christian Countryes the Informer is counted more infamous than the Executioner because the one does all the busines for the most part in darknesse and under board whereas the other exposes his actions to the publick view But why may not Church Officers themselves as well hang or cut the throat of such a Heretick whom they have prepared and designed for the shambles of the Civil Magistrats execution by their excommunicating of him If the putting him to death were just they need not use any Machivillian Stratagem to prevent the peoples censuring them of cruelty or make so nice to â—owle their fingers with the blood of such as they put to death deservedly The Levites when Moses required them everie man to kill his Son his brother companion and his neighbour were not so scrupulous Exod. 32 27. 28. 29. And why may not the Civil Magistrate as well excommunicate as banish or otherwise punish any Hereticks Doe not all punishments inflicted for spiritual offences equally become spiritual Or is it not necessary they should be spiritual to work a Spiritual effect doubtlesse they bee or ought to be so and if hanging of a spiritual offender bee as lawfull as excommunicating of him surely both the Civil Magistrate and the Presbyterian Church Officers may execute him both alike Please then to satisfie me concerning these three Queries 1. By what authoritie does the Civil Magistrate punish a Heretick 2. What is it he punishes him for 3. And Thirdly Vpon what â—â—â—all and inditement If the few perticular warrants upon special occasion for punishing some certain Idolaters expressy poynted it in the old Testament obliged all Magistrates then and ever since to do the like you must condemne the greatest part of Godly Magistrates for omitting it and if you wil haâ—â— extraordinary 〈◊〉 to â—â—gage thâ—â— there unto upon all ordinary 〈◊〉 you must inâ—er that 〈◊〉 the People of the land who have entered into the laâ—e solemne League and Covenant are bound with one accord to assault cut the throats of al the Papists they should meet withall without any farther proces or impeachment just as the Israelites served Mattan Bâ—als priest after that jehoida had made a covenant between the Lord the King and the people 2. King 11. 17. 18. Secondly For what cause does the Civil Magistrate punish this Church Offender were it for Civil delinquency then is he no longer a meer heretick a bare Church offender the Church would have no jurisdiction to punish him for such Civil delinquency But that you may see it was for spiritual for Church offences for which he is unjustly banished imprisoned or put to deaâ—h it wil appear upon the third Query or Inquiry that the Civil Magistâ—ate proceeds against him after an implicit manner by passing sentence by putting him to death upon the Church triall and inditement only or else arraignes him the second time for the selfe same offence a double injurie and injustice which besides being spiritual the Civil Magistrate has no cognizance is no competent Judge thereof nor can take upon himselfe any such authority without confounding the Ecclesiasticall Judicature with the Civil But I must trouble your patience a little longer with an other touch upon this string this whipcord which you graunt the Magistrate to scourge your Brethren withal in confidence your selves for this benevolence shall scape scotfree and passe for white boyes whatever offences you commit this no doubt wil expiate them all and make attonement for them though they be never so many You say the Civil Magistrate may compel men of different opinions to subscribe or to be gon nay you say the Civil Magistrate may command and compel a corrupted Church and negligent Church Officers into a Reformation and that even when they are Reformed hee may command and compel them by his Civil power to give satisfaction and reverse such Ecclesiasticall censures and judgements as the Civil Magistrate shall apprehend to bee oppressing unto any man or contrary to the Civil lawes Tell me is this power which you present the Civil Magistrate withall in spirituall matters a lesser lesse spiritual or efficacious power than what you reserve as peculiar to the Church If it bee lesse the Civil Magistrate surely is much beholding to you that you are so bountifull to him of such scrapps that you will set him â— work as the Egyptian Task-master did the Israelites Exo. 5. 18. with such leavings and shredds of discipline and yet expect hee should doe that for you which all your broad sides and batteries of Decrees Ordnance and Canons of Excommunication c. could not effect And why I pray may not the Church her selfe make use of small shot as well as greater But if you meane really side publica and this power which you attribute to the Civil Magistrate concerning Spiritual Offenders and offences be greater more Spiritual and efficacious to win and gain men unto true piety and Godlinesse by fining banishing imprisonment or death Can you not give him in the vantage Can you not let him have the lesser of Excommunication and other Ceremonious in comparison of Civil Coercive Censures Briefly then if this power which you give the Civil Magistrate about the Church bee a toy or trifle bate it him and let not so many thousand Indâ—pendents your Brethren be longer scandalized thereat But if you insist still to make it of so great concernment and necessity teaching the people that the Civil Magistrate must likewise bee a terrour to spiritual offenders assure your selfe that both Magistrate and People will likely ere long see the injustice and absurdity of having two Magistrates to punish one offender for one fault which also may disagree may possibly contradict each other in their sentences resolving through the corrupted principles which you instil that the Civil Magistrate has power and understanding sufficient to discipline and govern both Church and State But perhaps you 'l say there is an Act
prophetically no doubt counselled Moses his Sonne in Law not to ware out himselfe with continuall attendance of the people from morning untill evening to enquire for them of God but that hee would provide able men out of all the people who might judge of all smaller matters themselves and bring the greater unto Moses who was to bee for the people to God-ward and bring the causes unto God Exod. 18. from verse 8. 13. to 22. And when Moses was to bee gathered to his people the Lord required him to lay his hands on Joshua in whom was the spirit that hee might bee enabled to goe in and out before the people and stand before the Priest who should aske counsell for them in all doubtfull matters Numb. 27. 13. 17. 18. 21. The Priests and Iudges being thus miraculously qualified God commanded the people in all streights and controversies of difficulty to have recourse unto them for sentence or direction according whereunto they were required to yeeld absolute obedience without gain-saying or murmuring lest they were put to death as those that did presumptuously Deut. 17. 8. to 13. and 19. 7. 2. ch. 19. 11. 1. Sam. 9. 9. 2. Sam 24. 11. 1 King 14. 3. 2. King 8. 8. with diverse others and well they did deserve it doubtlesse when they might see such infallible evidence in these Ministeres of the Lord that it was his divine pleasure it should be so and that for their advantage too The children of Israel therefore had recourse unto them upon all occasion and the Lord kept good correspondence with them not answering them by amphibologies doubtfull and delusive Oracles but by discovering to them his will his purposes and intentions about whatsoever they enquired of him 1. Sam 22. 13. 14. 15. Jer. 23. 37. Amos 3. 7. Judg. 1. 1. and 20. 18 So on the contrary when they tooke in hand an enterprise without asking his counsell and advice we may observe it did not thrive with them it proved otherwise than they desired as when Joshua made league with the Gibeonites Joshua 9. 14. And now not to send you againe to the Jewes though you will have much a doe to finde an other Nation to which you may apply your text of Deut. 17. 8. 9. in which the sentence spoken of must either bee fallible or infallible if fallible then it followes that God required the people to hearken and bee Subject unto such sentences as might bee sinfull such as they apprehended to be unjust and sinfull such as were in themselves absolutely sinfull for all these cases might possibly have hapned upon such a supposition which were blasphemy to imagine If the sentence bee to bee presumed infallible then questionlesse God might very justly require the people to bee subject to it and impose a law unalterable after the manner of the Meades and Persians that such as would not harken to it might bee condemned to dye as one that did presumptuously Doe but prevaile then with your Presbyters in cortesie to discover to us some gleanings of their Prophetick spirit or let us see what signes and wonders God is pleased to do by their mediation more then by other mens and then whosoever will not yeeld a proportionable honour and obedience to them for my part let Artaxarxes his decree be put in execution against him whether it be to imprisonment confiscation of goods banishment or death Ezra 7. 26. In the mean time if there bee any thing of Godlinesse or understanding of a man in you dispence with such as cannot make Idolls fall downe and worship them Pag. 30 sayes the Civil Magistrate is Subiect in a Spirituall way unto the Church and that the Church is subiect to the Civill Magistrate in a Civill way But what if these different Judicatiories will not bee subject to each other in their respective spher's What if the Civill Magistrate will not learne Gods will by the Ministers of the Church as AS sayes hee must Pag. 30. What if hee become Heretical Schismaticall â— must heâ— not bee proceeded against by the utmost of Church censures to wit excommunication And if hee bee not worthy to remaine in the Church must hee not by AS his doctrine bee turned out or cut off from the Civill State But some perhaps will be so Court affected as to say If the Magistrate will be so who can help it wâ—â— must suffer what we cannot remedie 'T is true we must but pag 166. you say that whatsoever the Ecclesiasticall Senate or Presbyterie is bound not to tolerate but must suppresse in the Church that the Civill Magistrate or Senate it bound not to tolerate but must suppresse in the State since he is a nurse of the State and keeper of the two Tables and since whatsoever power the Civill Magistrates have is derived from the people Who sayes there is no remedie against a Magistrate thus offending Are not both Houses of Parliament are not millions of the people enough to do justice in such a case But what if the Civill Magistrate be without not of the Church can you not with Paul be contented that God should judge him 1 Cor. 5 13. If you say 't is now too late to make such a querie and that he was admitted into the Church by baptisme so long since will he not think you repent his Baptisme and coâ—â— such little thanks as promised submission for him unto the Church without his order and consent Nay will he not plead non-age you know there are many good lawes provided for relieving of the Pupillage in money matters Having then thus mâ—â—acled the Civil Magistrate whilst he was in swadling cloutes you say he must now be subject to the Church and that if he be once turn'd out of the Church he must likewise be turn'd out of the Civil State Is not this the Popish doctrin of lâ—â—â—ing Subjects from their obedience to Prince or Parliament Are we thus leap't out of the Popish frying-pan into the midst of Presbyterian firebrands But I dare say youâ—â—â— stagger deny the words beeing laid unto your charge the truth is I find by this discourse that you haue a trecherous memory which hath led you into such a company of unreconcileable contradictions far worse than many theeves and harlots but if your heart or understanding had been better than your memory this doctrin had never issued Turn then to pâ— 166 where you say that whatsoever the Presbytery may not tolerate in the Church the Civil Magistrate must not tolerate in the State then turn to p. 179 where you say that al power is Originally in the people which makes them the supremest Magistrate of al above both King Parliament as King Parliament are above other inferiour and subordinate Magistrates Now if you know how to spel put these together this Popish doctrin besides others will clearly arise from thence to wit that if Primes and Magistrates become Hereticks they may be excommunicated if excommunicated the
of Parliament a Civil law declaring heresie or any different from the State opinions such as for the present are in fashion to be censurable by the Civil power I answer not without all due respect unto the lawes and such as made them that if there be any distinction betwixt a Church State and a Civil State which all Christians â—itherto acknowledged the enacting Civil lawes to punish spiritual offences is not only a Soloecisme an improprietie in State but an incroaching on the Churches power a prophaning of the Keyes and injurious to the offender who by this meanes is punished both beyond the degree and nature of his offence But if you remember as I put you in mind of before pag. 1â—â— you say Whatsoever the Ecclesiastical Senate or Presbyterie is bound not to tolerate but must suppresse in the Church that the Civil Magistrate is bound not to tolerate but must suppresse in the State But if this bee true must not the Civil Magistrate joyne with the Ecclesiastial in judging of Heresie Schisme and all Church offences Or if forsooth your meaning be the Presbyterial Officials shall have the preheminence and passe their verdict first Are not the Civil Powers obliged to passe the like implicitly to do the same good justice whether it bee right or wrong or else set at large to give a different judgment and so ipsâ— factâ— condemne your doctrin as arrogant and Heretical Oh that you would but baâ—e us these impertinencies these inconsistencies how many fair sheetes of paper would it have saved from fowling But whereas you enthraule the Magistrate hereunto as Nursing-Fathers and Mothers you may as well engage your Nurse to knock all children on the head because they speake not so readily or plainly as your owne though sublimated extracted from Mercuries braine And yet this rule of yours needs not bee so stout to admit of no exceptions no qualifications since the off-spring of Fornication or adultrie are forward Imps and forwardnes a character of such Imps though otherwise undiscovered to the world But for the text in Esa. 4â— 23. which propheside that the Kingâ— of the Gentiles should become Nursing Fathers and their Queens Nursing Mothers unto the Church mean you by their fighting for it By their cruel persecuting or tormenting Christians 'T is clearly by submitting themselves unto the Churches spiritual yoake by whose example their subjects might bee encouraged to do the like of their owne free accord and Godly disposition without the least cullour of compulsion in that the Blessed spirit in the end of the same verse brings for a reason of these Kings and Queens administring to the Church That they shall not be ashamed that waite for him Now there would want a just capacity in them of being ashamed for waiting on the Church or on Christ the Head thereof if they were constrayned to wait Pag. 60. You say an Ecclesiastical judicatore is nothing else but a certain nâ—mber of men endowed with an authoritive power according to Gods word to judge of Church â—usinesses according to Gods glorie and the weak of the Church or in a word the representative Church of one Parish â—lâ—sse Province Nation or of all the world But where meet you with any such Chimera of an Ecclesiastical Indicatorie in all the word of God Where find you such an authoritive power as is by you insinuated Where find you that it would be either for Gods glorie or the Churches weale it should be so and last of all Where find you that a certain nomber of Ecclesiasticall men may be the Representative Church of the whole world Though you rack and torture the 15th and all other Acts of the Apostles by all the Ecclesiasticall judicatories and Authoritative Powers which you can muster up you will never bee able to get so much as a distinguishable Eccho from them to this purpose However please your owne imagination erect as many Consistorial Babels as you will hammer out what Decrees your selves think good and if you can with a good conscience tell us wee may do well if wee observe them But goe no farther since the Church of Jerusalem which you will I beleeve acknowledge your only President for Assemblies did noe more and yet there were present there Apostles inspired men whereas if there be any thing else in the very best of your Ecclesiasticall Judicatories as you call them besides such infirmities aâ— are common to you with any other nomber of your brethren 't is more than all the world beleeves and therefore blame them not if they cannot run â—udwink'd with you into Limbo Purgatorie or Hell since the way to heaven is too straight for men of implicit faith blind zeale orignorant devotion which are the best fruites your Presbyterian Disciplin can produce to light upon And besides the manifold weighty exceptions which have been made already and may yet bee farther multiplide to prove that to bee no Synod or Ecclesiastical Judicatorie in Act. 15. Tell mee good Sir whether if they will make that a President the Assembly which sits now at Westminster may not according to the same grounds send their Synodal Decrees into Germany France Spaine Italie and other pretended Christian Countries as well as they of Jerusalem did into Syrio Cilicia who had noe Râ—presentatives in Jerusalem that we heare of at the making of those Decrees and by consequence any certain nomber of men who have but confidence â—nough and the Civil sword to fight for them else they will bee thought to say and do aâ— little to the purpose as their neighbours may take upon them to be an Ecclesiastical Judicature the Representative Church and so condemne the whole world into spirituall captivity because their phansies tell them it is for Gods glory and the Churches weale it should bee so But suppose that Antioch Syria and Cilicia were willing to receive and yeeld obedience unto the Decrees which were made by the Church of Jerusalem where there were present inspired Apostles must this needs oblige all other Churches now to do the same towards such as have no more infallibility than their brethren especially whether they will or no were not this to hang the Christian libertie of the whole Church Militant upon the arbitrary proceedings of some few perticular congregations only Good Sir consider of it To the exceptions which are justly alledged against the peremptorinesse of some Ecclesiastical Synods and Assemblies which think they may Parallel their own decisious with those of the Apostolical Church of Jerusalem Act. 15. which were infallibly certaine of the Holy Ghosts Assistance or else might possibly have erred and consequently seduced all Christians unto the end of the world which would bee blasphemy of the greatest magnitude to imagine You aske wherefore may not every perticular Minister say it seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and me To which I answer that your Ministers and you too may bee rash in saying so as you are in other matters Who can
and Gomorrah than for many people amongst whom Christ wrought most of his miracles Know you not that many who live and dye Papists because through ignorance as Paul whilst he persecuted the Saints 1. Tim. 1. 13. Whom God therefore had mercie on shall rise up in judgement against all Protestants which know Gods will and do it not Doe you not take it to be mad doctrin of Pauls when he presupposes there may bee a case when the best Christians I say not Presbyterians may nay ought never more eat flesh drinke wine nor anything where at a brother stumbleth is offended or made weake And yet if you beleeve Rom. 14. 21. 1. Cor 8. 13. you may finde it Evangelical a little othergates than such stuffe as you baptize with Orthodox and then think it pleaseth the Holy Ghost because such men such dust and ashes as your selfe know no better that all the world will they nill they must fall down and worship it If Independents say they have no faith in communicating with your mixt multitude and joyning in an English Directory alias a Scotch Common-prayer-booke and you notwithstanding by imprisoning or discountenancing compel them to it doe you not make them commit Idolatrie Are they not damned because they doubt thereof Rom. 14. 23. Can the Priests in Frame the Divels in Hell or Presbyterians anywhere do worse by Protestants But you promise largely you say the Presbyterians will not compel the Independents to act against their consciences only you will not suffer them to seduce other mens consciences What an Agrippa-like halfe Christian paradox is this Doth the truth constraine you to acknowledge that compelling Independents to joyn with you in your mixt communions and stinted worship against their consciences would amount unto Idolatrie and may they not instruct their Famelies friends brethren and all such who gaspe after a word of knowledge or but desire to be instructed by them how to decline Idolatrie and worship God in sincerity and truth Did not Nature engrave it in the hearts of al men that it is better to obey God than man Did not the Apostles for our clearer understanding resolve it when 't was made a question Act 4. 19. Are not all such condemned for unproffitable servants who put a candle under a bushel For lapping up their tallent in a napkin For not strengthning others after they themselves are converted And though you so often upbraid this as a licentious course and way to let in all Heresie and impiety have patience if I tell you the Papists say the verie same for excluding Protestantisme out of their Dominions and neither you as profownd an AS as you take your selfe to be nor all the Presbyterians in the world can say one tittle more than Papists doe in this behalfe now wherein your Divinity your Disciplin your Righteousnes exceeds not that of Papists take it not so hainously that Independents who have not so learned Christ may not dare not joyne with you yet if upon a second consideration hereof you shall still remain head-strong banishing all farther truth left some Heresies should creepe in therewith good now do but discover to us a possibility how after the Presbyterian rule which according to AS sayes the Civil Magistrate has power not to admit the true Church or to turne it out though it had beene admitted and established by low The Roman Church can ever be reformed or the Iewes converted to the Gospel Concerning the Churches of New-England you say their Independency is worse than Heresie you strengthen your selfe in denying them a toleration in Old-England because they will not graunt you one in New-England and yet you bid them begon thither and live in peace but tell me a little how can they be secure in New-England from the omnipotency of the Presbyterian Disciplin which is as covetuous and ambitious as Rome it selfe which claim 's no lesse than all the World ought you not to endeavour their conversion equal to your brethrens of Old-England and that as well unto your Disciplin as to your doctrin Are their soules not worth saving Or their Country not worth living in the soile is thought no whit inferiour if not better then the best in Old-England though there be not so good plundering for money and rich moveables But why should not the soules of your New-English Brethren bee as deare unto you as those of Old-England Or though your Brethren of New-England should know the way to heaven of themselves How can you with a quiet mind endure they should get thither without your Passe your Mittimus your Peter-pence Or why may not the Old-English be thought as charitably on or find the like favour from your over dilligent Presbyerie But put the case you did really desire the New-English their conversion you approve of them in suffering no opinions to be published but their owne If this Disciplin be strictly observed How can they possibly attaine to better light and knowledge What course will you take for their informing for convincing them of this worse than Heretical tenet as you call it if to their's and your Church pollicy they should lykewise attaine as sharp a Civil sword as yours Or put case that even your own most excellent Doctorship were not so sound or orthodox as self conceited which many have strong presumptions for who are thought better able to judge thereof than AS himselfe will you put your selfe in an impossibilitie of ever being reformed except tumultuously or illegally both waies compulsively Was ever any AS so dull so stupid so voide both of Civil and Christian policie But what shall I say unto you since according to your Theologie nothing is so likely to prevaile with you as cudgelling Page 172. You say that refusing to tolerate the Independents will helpe to confirme the Churches and people in the truth of Presbyterian Diciplin and Doctrin that many men are led by authority and take many things upon the trust of great men c. Phy AS Are you not asham'd thus to uncover the nakednesse of your Churches To tell us and them that the Presbyterian world takes up a religion and government upon trust And if the Venerable and learned Assemblie as you stile them should not graunt a toleration of any thing but Poprie or Turcisme would not your good people whom you speake of be as easily confirmed of the truth thereof Surely they will unlesse they bee wiser than their Anchesters which will not be beleeved Page 179. You ask What power hath either King or Parliament to intrude and force upon the Kingdome new religions or a toleration of all Sects And say the Parliament assumes no such power to it selfe If this bee true How can it settle not to say intrude as AS does improperly and unmannerly the Scotch Presbyterian disciplin in England more than the Independency of New-English Churches For since the Churches of Scotland and New England for Doctrin agree in fundamentals differ onely in Disciplin
and as AS aleadges doe persecute all opinions but their own How come the New-English and Scots not to be both Sects alike since AS calls the Apologists a Sect But hee saies the Presbyterian Government is already established in England in the Dutch French Italian and Spanish Churches page 160. And I answer that hee may as well say the Popish government was setled in England because permitted to be made use of in in the Queens Chappells and so many Ambassadours houses little otherwise than was the Presbyterian But if the Presbyterian government bee already established what needs all this imprecating this conjuring of AS yet for a farther setling of it But if the Parliament may not as AS saies intrude and force upon the Kingdome new religions and since the Civil Magistrate as you likewise say page 166. if he follow Gods word cannot graunt a toleration without consent of the Church if he judge it bee not corrupted Why doe you not then betake your selfe to the Synod forbearing to be farther troublesome unto the Civil Magistrate untill it bee at leisure to talke with you for stigmatizing of it worse than mad corrupted by bribery or some other way page 166. unlesse it descend unto such notions only as AS arrives to And why I pray must the Parliament needs tolerate all AS ' ses to think they are worse than madde corrupted with money or some other way if they should tolerate a new Sect you mean Independents i. e. any that but differ from one another in opinion and such are all as will not upon any occasion say black is white and white is black or seeme to beleeve any thing else implicitely I know your meaning your grand and common more than understood objection that there is but one true religion but one faith one way to Heaven and why should wee then suffer men and women to bee of so many different waies faith's and religions For answer hereunto I can bee contented to graunt that there is but one true religion one true faith and way to Heaven But who can tell mee the precise and just precincts thereof What mean they by one true religion one way one faith The Papists Luthrans Calvinists all Episcopal and Presbyterian disciplind men generally are of this opinion each of them whole Nations and People damn for the most part hand over head all other professions but his own and even amongst these who by compulsion they will bee sure to make as good Christians as themselves to any mans thinking but their own how few of them notwithstanding will they allow to get into Heaven with them Would it not be wonder if this Circumference this little continent of earth should satisfie the vast desires of such who seeme to think that the Heavens so infinitely more capacious were only made for them and some few of their familiars O the malecontednesse of such Spirits To say nothing of Mahumetans nor any sort of Pagans no nor Jewes who yet were the beloved Nation of the Lord who promised to make all their enemies his owne To say nothing neither of Papists nor millions of Christians especially in the East which never heard more of Poprie than England had of Presbyterie five yeares agoe which you may say was but a little though since too much would it not be a harsh sentence for men of the Classicall Presbyterian-way to passe which must send hedlong to Hell all Lutherans Calvanists Independents with sundry other differing Protestants Perhaps you will say though they live Lutherans or Independents they may die Converts or well-willers to the Presbyterian Disciplin and Doctrin I answer that this is such a May-bee that if it come not whilst they live I 'le passe my word 't will never happen afterward You may as well say or think they may die Jewes or Papists were you not apt to flatter your selfe or glad to say any thing rather than by plaine argument be made appeare as if you thought God had first made the joyes of Heaven and in the fulnesse of time sent his Son to repurchase them for your fond opinions onely to vapour in But in case you doe not thus reprobate all Lutherans Independents and such as differ from you in opinion allowing them a possibilitie even whilst they live and die Lutherans or Independents to find the way to Heaven why will you then not let them goe their own way What if it should seeme to you the farthest way about May it not prove the neerest home according to the proverb I am certain it must be the surest way to them that know and apprehend no other If then you cannot possibly decipher or chaulke out unto me exactly this only true religion and way to Heaven without imminent danger of streightning or enlarging it do not take upon you to make enclosure of it or compell others to leaue their owne way unlesse you could bee infallibly assured that were a better which you put them in or were able to make them reraration if it prove a worse There are two great controversies which have set both State and Church on fire about which so many Pamphlets have beene scribled and not a few continued musing untill their heads grew addle which yet in my slender judgement may be fully Stated in a verie few lines only That in the Civil State is betwixt Magistrate and Subject On the one side it is alledged that if everie soule the whole bodie of a people or Nation must be subject unto the Higher Powers in all cases whether they govern justly or tyrannically then would it rest in the Magistrates breast and power to ruin and destroy the whole Nation at his pleasure On the otherside if the people may in some case deny subjection it must bee in such as they apprehend themselves in imminent danger of destruction and then it will follow that so often as they apprehend this imminent destruction this necessitie soe often they may deny subjection which would render the Higher Powers obnoxious unto the bare pretentions of the people if they did but withall alledge their feares were reall Both these I confesse are great stumbling blocks yet the latter as I conceive is to be adhered unto because it is a greater evil to expose a whole Nation to destruction than a Magistrate only And lest it should be thought this tenet does expose the Magistrate unto the inconstancie and violence of the People Let such remember that Magistrates are Gods Vice-gerents and as many times it happens that some scape better for the present For offending God than man but pay for it with a witnes afterwards soe if a People shall injuriously imploy that naturall power and might which God has given them only for their defence against the Magistrates just commands and priviledges God becomes so much more engag'd to vindicate them by how much being few in nomber in comparison of the People they want an arme of flesh to helpe themselves As for the Church