procure_v her_o peace_n and_o to_o put_v all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o confusion_n rather_o than_o in_o order_n 21._o be_v it_o credible_a that_o god_n shall_v have_v give_v his_o son_n to_o death_n to_o purchase_v we_o a_o order_n whereby_o all_o church_n may_v live_v in_o peace_n and_o unity_n and_o yet_o make_v they_o to_o quit_v all_o sacramental_a communion_n one_o with_o another_o have_v no_o common_a confession_n of_o faith_n nor_o any_o common_a platform_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n among_o they_o whether_o in_o the_o militant_a visible_a church_n there_o shall_v be_v a_o jndependency_n of_o church_n chap._n i._n the_o question_n state_v as_o m._n s._n of_o the_o first_o question_n make_v two_o so_o do_v he_o here_o of_o the_o second_o other_o two_o viz._n his_o three_o question_n for_o presbyterial_a government_n whereof_o he_o treat_v in_o the_o former_a chap._n and_o his_o 4._o question_v of_o independency_n whereof_o he_o treat_v in_o this_o his_o 4._o chap._n but_o they_o be_v not_o two_o question_n but_o two_o divers_a opinion_n about_o one_o and_o the_o same_o question_n so_o have_v commit_v this_o fault_n he_o commit_v again_o another_o much_o worse_o for_o he_o go_v on_o very_a confuse_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o his_o dispute_n and_o without_o ever_o state_v the_o question_n or_o declare_v what_o he_o mean_v by_o independency_n he_o go_v about_o to_o justify_v his_o independent_a government_n in_o a_o cataskevastique_a or_o assertive_a way_n wherefore_o to_o the_o end_n that_o the_o reader_n may_v the_o better_a judge_n both_o of_o his_o cataskevastique_n and_o of_o my_o anaskevastique_a way_n i_o will_v state_n the_o question_n and_o show_v what_o he_o have_v to_o prove_v and_o i_o to_o refute_v 1._o note_v therefore_o i_o pray_v thou_o courteous_a reader_n that_o independency_n be_v a_o sort_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n whereby_o every_o particular_a church_n be_v rule_v by_o its_o minister_n its_o doctor_n some_o rule_v elder_n and_o all_o those_o who_o be_v admit_v to_o be_v member_n thereof_o who_o how_o heterodox_n and_o haereticall_a soever_o they_o be_v in_o doctrine_n and_o how_o wicked_a and_o damnable_a soever_o they_o be_v in_o their_o life_n will_v not_o yet_o submit_v to_o any_o ecclesiastical_a power_n whatsoever_o yea_o not_o to_o that_o of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n be_v they_o never_o so_o orthodox_n and_o holy_a in_o their_o life_n 2._o note_v that_o the_o reason_n wherefore_o they_o will_v not_o submit_v to_o any_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n according_a to_o their_o opinion_n be_v not_o out_o of_o any_o disobedience_n in_o themselves_o as_o they_o pretend_v but_o for_o want_v of_o authority_n in_o the_o church_n for_o they_o believe_v that_o howbeit_o any_o particular_a church_n or_o any_o of_o her_o member_n shall_v fall_v into_o never_o so_o damnable_a heresy_n or_o wickedness_n that_o yet_o god_n have_v not_o ordain_v any_o authoritative_a power_n to_o judge_v she_o but_o that_o her_o power_n be_v as_o great_a as_o that_o of_o all_o the_o church_n in_o the_o world_n and_o that_o all_o that_o they_o can_v do_v in_o such_o a_o case_n be_v no_o more_o but_o only_o to_o counsel_n she_o as_o she_o may_v do_v they_o and_o in_o case_n she_o will_v not_o follow_v their_o counsel_n that_o they_o ought_v to_o do_v nothing_o else_o but_o only_o declare_v that_o they_o will_v have_v no_o more_o communion_n with_o she_o as_o she_o may_v likewise_o do_v to_o they_o in_o the_o like_a case_n viz._n if_o they_o will_v not_o follow_v her_o advice_n when_o she_o be_v offend_v with_o their_o doctrine_n government_n life_n or_o proceed_n the_o question_n then_o betwixt_o we_o and_o they_o be_v whether_o god_n have_v establish_v any_o such_o independent_a government_n in_o his_o church_n or_o not_o we_o deny_v it_o m._n s._n affirm_v it_o and_o argue_v as_o follow_v m._n s._n page_n 75._o of_o his_o book_n who_o then_o can_v lay_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o charge_n of_o this_o government_n that_o can_v i_o quoth_v a._n s._n in_o effect_n page_n 38_o 39_o etc._n etc._n i_o have_v 10._o reason_n or_o objection_n against_o it_o a._n s._n i_o confess_v that_o m._n s._n brag_v of_o this_o his_o independent_a government_n as_o his_o word_n express_v but_o it_o be_v a_o manifest_a untruth_n that_o ever_o i_o brag_v of_o 16._o reason_n as_o m._n s._n most_o foolish_o represent_v i_o here_o it_o be_v a._n s._n his_o custom_n to_o bring_v reason_n and_o not_o to_o boast_v of_o they_o as_o it_o be_v m._n s._n his_o manner_n to_o boast_v and_o brag_v with_o high_a word_n without_o any_o reason_n at_o all_o and_o for_o answer_v to_o this_o i_o say_v there_o be_v no_o one_o such_o word_n or_o expression_n in_o all_o my_o book_n it_o be_v but_o m._n s._n his_o word_n and_o fiction_n m._n s._n i_o shall_v not_o spend_v time_n in_o transcribe_v these_o your_o reason_n but_o shall_v desire_v the_o reader_n though_o it_o may_v be_v some_o discourtesy_n unto_o you_o to_o take_v your_o book_n into_o his_o hand_n a._n s._n i_o be_o bind_v to_o your_o courtesy_n good_a sir_n that_o will_v not_o let_v my_o weak_a reason_n appear_v in_o front_n against_o your_o strong_a answer_n but_o since_o it_o be_v not_o m._n s._n his_o pleasure_n that_o they_o appear_v in_o his_o most_o worthy_a book_n i_o hope_v that_o the_o courteous_a reader_n shall_v not_o be_v offend_v if_o i_o make_v they_o together_o with_o his_o answer_n and_o a._n s._n his_o duplye_n appear_v here_o in_o i_o my_o argument_n then_o be_v such_o as_o follow_v chap._n ii_o reason_n against_o the_o independency_n of_o particular_a congregation_n 1._o the_o independent_a church_n have_v no_o sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n though_o never_o so_o gross_a no_o relief_n for_o wrongful_a sentence_n or_o person_n injure_v by_o they_o no_o powerful_a or_o effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n that_o fall_v into_o heresy_n or_o schism_n etc._n etc._n all_o that_o they_o can_v do_v be_v only_o to_o pronounce_v a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o delinquent_n church_n as_o on_o the_o other_o side_n delinquent_n church_n may_v do_v against_o they_o 2._o this_o remedy_n be_v new_a neither_o be_v it_o know_v to_o the_o independent_a congregation_n before_o that_o emergent_a case_n in_o holland_n relate_v in_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n for_o if_o that_o church_n offend_v have_v know_v so_o much_o it_o be_v not_o credible_a that_o she_o will_v against_o all_o charity_n and_o the_o common_a order_n of_o all_o church_n have_v commit_v so_o great_a a_o scandal_n 3._o this_o remedy_n be_v not_o sufficient_a nor_o satisfactory_a because_o all_o church_n according_a to_o your_o tenet_n be_v equal_a in_o authority_n independent_a one_o of_o another_o and_o par_n in_o parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la imperium_fw-la none_o have_v power_n or_o authority_n over_o his_o equal_a how_o then_o can_v any_o church_n bind_v another_o to_o any_o such_o account_n but_o out_o of_o its_o free_a will_n as_o a_o party_n may_v do_v to_o its_o party_n 4._o because_o the_o church_n that_o be_v or_o that_o pretend_v to_o be_v offend_v by_o a_o delinquent_n church_n can_v judge_v she_o for_o than_o they_o become_v both_o judge_n and_o party_n in_o one_o cause_n which_o can_v be_v grant_v to_o those_o who_o have_v no_o authoritative_a power_n one_o over_o another_o as_o when_o a_o private_a man_n offend_v the_o state_n and_o we_o our_o god_n 5._o what_o if_o many_o church_n yea_o all_o the_o church_n shall_v offend_v one_o shall_v that_o one_o church_n gather_v all_o the_o rest_n together_o judge_v they_o all_o and_o in_o case_n of_o not_o submit_v themselves_o to_o her_o judgement_n separate_v herself_o from_o they_o all_o if_o so_o we_o shall_v have_v separation_n and_o schism_n enough_o which_o shall_v be_v continue_v to_o all_o posterity_n to_o come_v 6._o what_o if_o church_n be_v so_o remote_a one_o from_o another_o that_o they_o can_v not_o so_o easy_o meet_v together_o upon_o every_o occasion_n then_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o remedy_n at_o least_o not_o easy_a remedy_n 7._o what_o if_o the_o offence_n be_v small_a shall_v so_o many_o church_n for_o every_o trifle_n gather_v together_o and_o put_v themselves_o to_o so_o great_a cost_n and_o trouble_v 8._o what_o if_o the_o church_n shall_v differ_v in_o their_o judgement_n one_o from_o another_o in_o such_o a_o case_n shall_v they_o all_o by_o schism_n separate_v themselves_o one_o from_o another_o 9_o this_o sort_n of_o government_n give_v no_o more_o power_n or_o authority_n to_o a_o thousand_o church_n over_o one_o then_o to_o a_o tinker_n yea_o to_o a_o hangman_n over_o a_o thousand_o for_o he_o may_v desire_v they_o all_o out_o of_o charity_n to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o their_o judgement_n in_o case_n he_o be_v offend_v
by_o they_o neither_o see_v i_o what_o more_o our_o brethren_n grant_v to_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n over_o one_o but_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v subject_a to_o none_o of_o these_o inconvenience_n for_o the_o collective_a or_o combine_a eldership_n have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n all_o man_n and_o church_n thereof_o be_v bind_v by_o law_n and_o covenant_n to_o submit_v themselves_o thereunto_o every_o man_n know_v their_o set_a time_n of_o meeting_n wherein_o sundry_a matter_n be_v dispatch_v and_o all_o thing_n carry_v by_o plurality_n of_o voice_n without_o any_o schism_n or_o separation_n 10._o this_o government_n viz._n jedependency_n be_v a_o power_n wherein_o the_o party_n be_v judge_v if_o he_o will_v and_o so_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o judge_n suspend_v upon_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o party_n judge_v which_o be_v most_o ridiculous_a without_o any_o example_n in_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n a_o judgement_n not_o very_o unlike_a to_o that_o which_o be_v relate_v of_o a_o merry_a man_n who_o say_v that_o he_o have_v the_o best_a and_o most_o obedient_a wife_n in_o the_o world_n because_o say_v he_o she_o will_v nothing_o but_o what_o i_o will_v and_o as_o all_o man_n wonder_v at_o it_o know_v she_o to_o be_v the_o most_o disobedient_a yea_o say_v he_o but_o i_o must_v first_o will_v what_o she_o will_v else_o she_o will_v nothing_o that_o i_o will_n 11._o this_o sort_n of_o government_n be_v unjust_a and_o unreasonable_a for_o not_o only_o the_o party_n judge_v its_o party_n but_o also_o inslict_v the_o same_o punishment_n viz._n separation_n upon_o all_o offend_a church_n whatever_o the_o offence_n be_v great_a or_o small_a in_o case_n of_o non-satisfaction_n whereas_o all_o punishment_n shall_v be_v commensurable_a unto_o the_o several_a offence_n 12._o and_o so_o you_o seem_v to_o approve_v the_o opinion_n of_o the_o stoic_n who_o hold_v all_o sin_n to_o be_v equal_a since_o you_o inflict_v the_o same_o punishment_n upon_o they_o all_o 13._o not_o only_o this_o discipline_n can_v be_v easy_o put_v in_o execution_n in_o great_a kingdom_n as_o england_n wherein_o all_o the_o church_n offend_v can_v so_o easy_o meet_v together_o but_o also_o 14._o because_o the_o person_n offend_v after_o he_o have_v represent_v his_o grievance_n unto_o the_o church_n and_o that_o church_n have_v receive_v satisfaction_n he_o may_v go_v to_o another_o and_o so_o continual_o in_o infinitum_fw-la to_o the_o world_n end_n evermore_o take_v those_o church_n for_o the_o party_n that_o judge_v it_o which_o be_v most_o absurd_a and_o foolish_a 15._o what_o if_o the_o party_n offend_v be_v poor_a and_o have_v not_o the_o mean_n to_o post_v up_o and_o down_o from_o neigbour-church_n to_o neighbour-church_n to_o pray_v they_o to_o make_v the_o offend_a church_n to_o give_v a_o account_n of_o her_o judgement_n much_o less_o to_o attend_v upon_o their_o uncertain_a conveniency_n here_o will_v be_v find_v true_a pauper_fw-la ubique_fw-la iaceo_fw-la whereas_o in_o presbyterial_a government_n the_o party_n offend_v may_v be_v easy_o redress_v and_o get_v satisfaction_n as_o not_o have_v need_n so_o to_o post_v up_o and_o down_o to_o be_v at_o so_o great_a charge_n or_o to_o attend_v their_o conveniency_n for_o by_o a_o simple_a appeal_v he_o may_v bind_v the_o church_n offend_v to_o appear_v at_o the_o day_n appoint_v 16._o what_o if_o there_o shall_v fall_v out_o a_o hundred_o such_o offence_n in_o a_o short_a time_n must_v so_o many_o church_n evermore_o gather_v together_o for_o every_o one_o of_o they_o apart_o 17._o what_o if_o church_n be_v poor_a and_o can_v be_v at_o so_o great_a expense_n then_o in_o that_o case_n it_o shall_v seem_v there_o be_v no_o order_n to_o meet_v with_o offence_n i_o may_v add_v these_o follow_a reason_n 18._o this_o independency_n make_v all_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n like_v so_o many_o scopae_fw-la dissolutae_fw-la loose_a broom_n that_o have_v no_o tie_n or_o band_n to_o hold_v they_o together_o and_o so_o destroy_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o militant_a church_n 19_o the_o very_a word_n independency_n apply_v to_o man_n how_o much_o more_o the_o thing_n signify_v thereby_o shall_v be_v odious_a to_o all_o christian_a ear_n as_o be_v proper_a to_o god_n almighty_a how_o proud_a &_o abominable_a be_v this_o expression_n we_o seven_o man_n who_o constitute_v this_o church_n we_o will_v not_o depend_v on_o all_o the_o church_n of_o this_o world_n we_o will_v not_o depend_v on_o any_o create_v ecclesiastical_a power_n yea_o not_o upon_o all_o the_o angel_n in_o heaven_n and_o man_n upon_o earth_n but_o will_v be_v independent_o and_o have_v other_o to_o depend_v upon_o we_o 20._o if_o so_o what_o be_v the_o cause_n that_o you_o oppose_v the_o king_n majesty_n absolute_a or_o independent_a power_n in_o state_n matter_n true_o this_o be_v only_o secular_a can_v be_v so_o dangerous_a as_o the_o other_o viz._n as_o you_o for_o this_o only_a may_v be_v prejudicial_a to_o our_o body_n or_o state_n but_o you_o may_v kill_v million_o of_o soul_n neither_o be_v the_o king_n authority_n more_o limit_v in_o the_o state_n then_o you_o be_v in_o the_o church_n 21._o what_o will_v you_o that_o wherever_o there_o be_v 7._o or_o 8._o of_o you_o combine_v together_o to_o make_v up_o a_o church_n you_o shall_v depend_v on_o no_o man_n but_o have_v a_o independent_a and_o absolute_a power_n to_o bring_v into_o the_o kingdom_n whatever_o heresy_n you_o please_v to_o blaspheme_v god_n and_o so_o vi_fw-la irresistibili_fw-la with_o the_o arminian_o to_o go_v to_o hell_n if_o so_o god_n have_v mercy_n on_o you_o but_o it_o may_v be_v say_v that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v hinder_v they_o but_o m.s._n will_v answer_v 1._o that_o he_o shall_v not_o punish_v any_o man_n for_o religion_n 2._o that_o the_o civil_a power_n be_v of_o another_o sort_n then_o ecclesiastical_a 3._o what_o if_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v not_o a_o protestant_n or_o what_o if_o he_o be_v a_o profane_a man_n 4._o howbeit_o he_o be_v a_o protestant_n and_o a_o good_a christian_a yet_o shall_v it_o follow_v that_o the_o church-power_n be_v neither_o sufficient_a nor_o perfect_a in_o svo_fw-la genere_fw-la since_o it_o must_v have_v recourse_n unto_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n which_o be_v of_o another_o nature_n and_o extra_fw-la hoc_fw-la genus_fw-la chap._n iii_o m.s._n his_o evasion_n refute_v and_o my_o argument_n make_v good_a and_o first_o those_o that_o he_o bring_v against_o the_o three_o argument_n m.s._n answer_v not_o all_o nor_o any_o considerable_a number_n of_o my_o argument_n as_o he_o confess_v himself_o but_o scratch_v at_o a_o few_o of_o they_o whereby_o he_o weaken_v they_o not_o but_o overthrow_v the_o government_n of_o all_o state_n that_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n the_o practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o apostolic_a church_n and_o the_o fundament_n of_o independent_a government_n itself_o as_o god_n willing_a we_o shall_v see_v hereafter_o the_o first_o of_o my_o reason_n that_o he_o snap_v at_o be_v the_o 3._o viz._n this_o remedy_n viz._n of_o non-communion_n be_v not_o sufficient_a nor_o satisfactory_a because_o all_o church_n according_a to_o your_o tenet_n be_v equal_a in_o authority_n independent_a one_o of_o another_o and_o par_fw-fr in_o parem_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la imperium_fw-la none_o have_v power_n or_o authority_n over_o his_o equal_a how_o then_o can_v any_o church_n bind_v any_o other_o to_o any_o such_o account_n but_o out_o of_o its_o freewill_n as_o a_o party_n may_v do_v to_o its_o party_n m._n s._n 1._o suppose_v that_o course_n which_o the_o apologist_n insist_v upon_o be_v not_o in_o the_o eye_n of_o reason_n a_o mean_n sufficient_a to_o such_o a_o purpose_n yet_o if_o it_o be_v a_o mean_n which_o god_n have_v authorize_v for_o the_o effect_v it_o it_o will_v do_v the_o deed_n a.s._n it_o seemth_v that_o m.s._n will_v fain_o enter_v into_o the_o list_n against_o reason_n itself_o but_o he_o must_v know_v that_o god_n ordinance_n and_o reason_n be_v not_o opposite_a one_o to_o another_o since_o he_o who_o be_v the_o author_n of_o nature_n be_v the_o author_n of_o grace_n also_o neither_o as_o author_n of_o nature_n sight_n he_o against_o himself_o as_o author_n of_o grace_n 2._o it_o be_v a_o maxim_n of_o popery_n and_o lutheranism_n to_o oppose_v nature_n &_o grace_n 3._o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n serve_v themselves_o of_o natural_a reason_n in_o scripture_n 4._o and_o out_o of_o the_o case_n of_o supernatural_a revelation_n above_o it_o which_o can_v be_v contrary_a unto_o it_o it_o must_v be_v believe_v 5_o he_o suppose_v that_o independency_n and_o withdraw_a and_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o such_o church_n until_o they_o repent_v be_v a_o sufficient_a mean_n authorize_v by_o god_n which_o hitherto_o appear_v not_o yea_o
church_n be_v schismatical_a for_o some_o diversity_n of_o opinion_n for_o that_o belong_v rather_o to_o heresy_n then_o to_o schism_n nor_o 2._o that_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n because_o that_o it_o be_v tolerate_v or_o not_o tolerate_v for_o toleration_n be_v a_o consequent_a of_o schism_n and_o extrinsecall_v to_o it_o the_o true_a reason_n wherefore_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n and_o they_o schismatical_a be_v because_o it_o be_v a_o breach_n of_o charity_n in_o that_o they_o separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o true_a church_n yea_o and_o from_o all_o the_o true_a church_n in_o the_o world_n both_o in_o sacramental_a communion_n and_o that_o of_o discipline_n neither_o be_v it_o a_o schism_n because_o that_o it_o be_v a_o separation_n from_o presbyterial_a church_n precise_o under_o the_o notion_n of_o presbyterial_a but_o of_o true_a and_o orthodox_n church_n which_o press_v they_o no_o way_n to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n but_o m._n s._n in_o despite_n of_o all_o reason_n will_v prove_v that_o i_o can_v convict_v the_o independent_o of_o schism_n and_o that_o by_o this_o his_o most_o seriall_a argument_n which_o here_o i_o put_v in_o form_n with_o all_o the_o force_n it_o can_v have_v he_o that_o know_v not_o what_o be_v schism_n can_v convict_v the_o independent_o of_o schism_n but_o a._n s._n know_v not_o what_o be_v schism_n ergo_fw-la a._n s._n can_v convict_v the_o independent_o of_o schism_n the_o major_n be_v certain_a the_o minor_a he_o prove_v thus_o he_o that_o know_v not_o what_o be_v the_o church_n know_v not_o what_o be_v schism_n or_o a_o rent_n of_o the_o church_n for_o rectum_fw-la est_fw-la index_n svi_fw-la et_fw-la obliqui_fw-la and_o entia_fw-la privativa_fw-la cognoscuntur_fw-la ex_fw-la suis_fw-la positivis_fw-la etc._n etc._n but_o a._n s._n know_v not_o what_o be_v the_o church_n for_o he_o say_v we_o know_v not_o wherein_o consist_v its_o essence_n p._n 21._o ergo_fw-la a._n s._n i_o answer_v to_o the_o first_o argument_n that_o the_o minor_a be_v false_a as_o appeareth_z by_o the_o definition_n that_o i_o have_v give_v of_o it_o both_o in_o my_o annotation_n upon_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n in_o my_o answer_n unto_o a_o libel_n of_o c._n c._n and_o he_o retofore_o somewhere_o in_o this_o book_n against_o the_o which_o m._n s._n have_v nothing_o to_o reply_v to_o the_o confirmation_n of_o the_o minor_a i_o answer_v that_o if_o by_o the_o word_n know_v m._n s._n mean_v a_o distinct_a knowledge_n of_o the_o essential_a part_n of_o the_o church_n the_o major_n be_v false_a for_o schism_n be_v not_o a_o rent_v of_o the_o essential_a part_n of_o the_o church_n or_o of_o its_o transcendentall_a or_o metaphysical_a unity_n but_o of_o its_o integrant_fw-la part_n and_o integrant_fw-la unity_n for_o the_o first_o can_v be_v destroy_v so_o long_o as_o it_o be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o schismatical_a church_n may_v have_v their_o transcendent_a unity_n verity_n and_o goodness_n howsoever_o they_o lose_v their_o integrant_fw-la unity_n verity_n and_o goodness_n if_o by_o the_o word_n know_v he_o mean_v any_o knowledge_n of_o the_o church_n either_o confuse_a or_o distinct_a whereby_o we_o may_v know_v the_o church_n by_o her_o external_a cause_n her_o integrant_fw-la part_n her_o accident_n etc._n etc._n the_o minor_a be_v false_a for_o not_o only_a a._n s._n but_o little_a child_n at_o school_n have_v such_o a_o knowledge_n of_o the_o church_n which_o they_o learn_v in_o their_o catechism_n and_o by_o any_o such_o confuse_v or_o distinct_a knowledge_n of_o the_o church_n by_o her_o cause_n accident_n or_o effect_n etc._n etc._n we_o may_v confuse_o or_o distinct_o know_v what_o be_v schism_n howbeit_o not_o essential_o as_o for_o the_o confirmation_n of_o the_o minor_a by_o my_o word_n i_o say_v not_o there_o that_o i_o know_v not_o what_o the_o church_n be_v confuse_o or_o distinct_o by_o her_o cause_n integrant_fw-la part_n her_o accident_n etc._n etc._n but_o that_o we_o know_v not_o distinct_o the_o essence_n of_o thing_n as_o distinguish_v from_o their_o accident_n as_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v if_o he_o look_v in_o my_o book_n for_o there_o in_o that_o page_n 21._o i_o speak_v in_o formal_a term_n of_o that_o which_o be_v essential_a to_o the_o church_n now_o if_o m._n s._n pretend_v to_o any_o such_o profound_a knowledge_n of_o thing_n we_o must_v confess_v he_o to_o be_v a_o other_o epistemon_n doctor_n du_fw-fr molin_n professor_n in_o divinity_n at_o sedan_n hold_v the_o same_o tenet_n in_o his_o thesis_n de_fw-fr summo_fw-la bono_n so_o do_v the_o other_o professor_n of_o divinity_n there_o for_o they_o say_v that_o no_o creature_n neither_o in_o this_o life_n nor_o in_o the_o life_n to_o come_v yea_o not_o the_o very_a angel_n know_v the_o essence_n of_o any_o thing_n and_o from_o thence_o they_o conclude_v that_o we_o shall_v not_o see_v the_o essence_n of_o god_n in_o the_o life_n to_o come_v the_o which_o assertion_n howsoever_o i_o confess_v it_o to_o be_v true_a de_fw-la hominibus_fw-la viatoribus_fw-la yet_o can_v i_o not_o believe_v it_o to_o be_v true_a de_fw-fr angelis_n viatoribus_fw-la and_o much_o less_o de_fw-fr angelis_n aut_fw-la hominibus_fw-la comprehensoribus_fw-la m._n s._n shall_v have_v do_v better_a to_o have_v answer_v my_o reason_n that_o i_o bring_v there_o pag._n 21._o then_o so_o against_o the_o light_n of_o his_o conscience_n to_o scratch_v at_o a_o know_a truth_n neither_o can_v i_o believe_v he_o to_o be_v so_o ignorant_a as_o not_o to_o know_v and_o acknowledge_v the_o truth_n of_o it_o in_o himself_o however_o out_o of_o desire_n of_o contestation_n he_o manifest_v the_o contrary_a but_o m._n s._n to_o the_o end_n he_o seem_v not_o altogether_o impertinent_a prove_v it_o by_o a_o argument_n take_v ab_fw-la exemplo_fw-la or_o by_o a_o imperfect_a induction_n if_o it_o be_v not_o a_o pari_fw-la or_o from_o they_o altogether_o i_o can_v believe_v say_v he_o that_o he_o shall_v perfect_o know_v the_o nature_n of_o darkness_n that_o be_v ignorant_a of_o what_o belong_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o light_n nor_o that_o he_o shall_v know_v what_o a_o schism_n or_o rend_a mean_n that_o know_v not_o what_o belong_v to_o the_o nature_n of_o unity_n and_o entireness_n of_o the_o body_n for_o rectum_fw-la est_fw-la index_n svi_fw-la &_o obliqui_fw-la and_o entia_fw-la privativa_fw-la cognoscuntur_fw-la ex_fw-la suis_fw-la positivis_fw-la a.s._n we_o know_v not_o perfect_o the_o nature_n of_o light_n and_o consequent_o we_o know_v not_o perfect_o the_o nature_n of_o darkness_n if_o to_o know_v perfect_o be_v take_v for_o a_o distinct_a knowledge_n of_o its_o essence_n as_o distingnish_v from_o its_o accident_n only_o we_o know_v light_v imperfect_o by_o its_o external_a cause_n by_o its_o effect_n by_o its_o subject_n adjunct_n etc._n etc._n and_o not_o essential_o and_o as_o for_o your_o first_o maxim_n rectum_fw-la est_fw-la index_n svi_fw-la &_o obliqui_fw-la it_o be_v true_a sed_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la distinctum_fw-la aliquem_fw-la conceptum_fw-la svi_fw-la essentialem_fw-la as_o philosopher_n say_v your_o second_o maxim_n whosoever_o you_o imitate_v in_o that_o expression_n be_v improper_a for_o privation_n be_v not_o proper_o entia_fw-la privativa_fw-la but_o entium_fw-la privationes_fw-la not_o essence_n or_o being_n but_o negation_n of_o be_v neither_o be_v darkness_n any_o thing_n but_o a_o negation_n of_o something_o viz._n of_o light_n so_o poverty_n be_v not_o a_o thing_n but_o a_o want_n of_o some_o thing_n viz._n of_o riches_n 2._o but_o i_o will_v pardon_v he_o this_o mistake_n howbeit_o it_o be_v true_a yet_o follow_v it_o not_o that_o if_o i_o know_v a_o privation_n by_o the_o positive_a form_n which_o it_o destroy_v that_o i_o know_v that_o form_n essential_o by_o its_o essence_n and_o in_o itself_o i_o know_v the_o form_n only_o accidental_o or_o by_o its_o extrinsecall_a cause_n or_o by_o its_o existence_n 3._o item_n so_o we_o conceive_v privation_n under_o the_o notion_n of_o negation_n or_o destruction_n of_o the_o existence_n rather_o than_o of_o the_o essence_n of_o thing_n or_o at_o most_o as_o destruction_n of_o the_o existence_n primario_fw-la and_o of_o the_o essence_n secundariò_fw-la if_o they_o be_v destroy_v by_o privation_n neither_o can_v i_o believe_v that_o the_o fire_n burn_v and_o destroy_v immediate_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o man_n or_o any_o part_n thereof_o for_o the_o reasonable_a soul_n be_v spiritual_a and_o can_v be_v burn_v so_o be_v the_o other_o part_n of_o his_o essence_n viz._n his_o materia_fw-la prima_fw-la incombustible_a yea_o natural_o incorruptible_a and_o as_o for_o the_o physical_a essence_n of_o the_o whole_a man_n when_o m._n s._n shall_v declare_v wherein_o it_o consist_v i_o shall_v dispute_v with_o he_o but_o silly_a man_n with_o this_o babble_a logic_n know_v he_o not_o that_o accident_n be_v never_o define_v by_o their_o essential_a
i_o maintain_v that_o no_o other_o according_a to_o god_n word_n shall_v be_v tolerate_v the_o independent_o maintain_v that_o they_o shall_v be_v tolerate_v i_o reply_v if_o so_o why_o not_o other_o also_o to_o this_o m._n s._n can_v say_v nothing_o but_o will_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o it_o and_o that_o presbyterianism_n according_a to_o this_o reason_n can_v be_v tolerate_v i_o have_v prove_v the_o contrary_a and_o be_o ready_a to_o grant_v that_o if_o it_o be_v a_o sect_n as_o they_o be_v or_o if_o the_o church_n and_o state_n judge_v it_o to_o be_v repugnant_a to_o god_n word_n it_o shall_v not_o be_v tolerate_v but_o so_o have_v they_o not_o do_v yea_o they_o have_v declare_v the_o contrary_a the_o parliament_n in_o their_o covenant_n and_o the_o assembly_n in_o give_v thanks_o to_o the_o scot_n commissioner_n for_o their_o book_n 9_o and_o to_o be_v short_a i_o adjure_v thou_o m._n s._n by_o the_o relic_n of_o thy_o conscience_n and_o pray_v all_o man_n fear_v god_n to_o declare_v whether_o or_o not_o in_o take_v of_o the_o covenant_n and_o in_o swear_v so_o solemn_o according_a to_o their_o power_n to_o put_v down_o popery_n prelacy_n and_o all_o schism_n they_o intend_v to_o tolerate_v they_o all_o as_o m._n s._n maintain_v they_o shall_v do_v m._n s._n ask_v i_o what_o opinion_n donandae_fw-la sint_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la a._n s._n if_o the_o question_n be_v what_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v approve_v in_o the_o church_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la my_o answer_n be_v only_o such_o as_o be_v approve_v by_o public_a ecclesiastical_a authority_n according_a to_o god_n ordinary_a providence_n if_o the_o question_n be_v what_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v tolerate_v then_o either_o you_o mean_v to_o be_v tolerate_v in_o the_o church_n by_o public_a ecclesiastical_a authority_n or_o in_o private_a person_n if_o the_o first_o i_o answer_v none_o but_o such_o as_o god_n word_n tolerate_v and_o the_o church_n judge_v to_o be_v true_a or_o not_o repugnant_a to_o the_o word_n if_o the_o second_o i_o answer_v that_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o circumstance_n of_o time_n person_n place_n and_o other_o etc._n etc._n 1._o no_o false_a opinion_n be_v to_o be_v tolerate_v by_o any_o positive_a toleration_n consent_n or_o approbation_n 2._o if_o man_n err_v for_o want_v of_o light_n much_o may_v be_v tolerate_v negatiuè_fw-la i._n e._n in_o not_o proceed_v severe_o against_o they_o till_o they_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v in_o case_n they_o give_v no_o offence_n to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n but_o if_o they_o give_v offence_n they_o must_v be_v punish_v condign_o and_o after_o a_o sufficient_a moral_a conviction_n they_o may_v be_v punish_v condign_o both_o by_o the_o church_n and_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n if_o they_o continue_v and_o become_v pertinacious_a and_o because_o i_o add_v that_o the_o less_o the_o difference_n be_v the_o great_a be_v the_o schism_n m._n s._n pag._n 89._o answer_v 5._o tell_v we_o that_o the_o man_n speak_v of_o i_o know_v not_o what_o schism_n be_v a._n s._n it_o a_o strange_a thing_n that_o have_v give_v so_o clear_a a_o definition_n of_o schism_n he_o shall_v so_o doubt_v m._n s._n either_o grant_v my_o definition_n to_o be_v true_a and_o so_o grant_v that_o i_o know_v it_o or_o deny_v it_o and_o i_o shall_v god_n willing_a make_v it_o good_a but_o it_o be_v but_o a_o small_a matter_n what_o i_o know_v or_o know_v not_o whether_o i_o be_v ignorant_a or_o not_o for_o that_o be_v no_o way_n material_a or_o to_o the_o purpose_n the_o less_o i_o know_v and_o the_o more_o ignorant_a i_o be_o the_o more_o easy_a be_v it_o for_o such_o a_o epistemon_n as_o m._n s._n be_v to_o refute_v i_o come_v to_o the_o point_n i_o pray_v thou_o good_a m._n s_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o my_o assertion_n be_v this_o viz._n the_o less_o the_o difference_n be_v betwixt_o independency_n and_o the_o true_a discipline_n that_o be_v to_o be_v establish_v whether_o it_o be_v presbyterial_a government_n or_o any_o other_o the_o great_a be_v the_o breach_n of_o charity_n and_o ecclesiastical_a communion_n in_o make_v so_o great_a a_o schism_n and_o separation_n from_o the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n for_o so_o small_a a_o matter_n if_o it_o be_v so_o you_o yourselves_o must_v make_v a_o separation_n among_o yourselves_o for_o every_o trifle_n wherein_o you_o differ_v in_o judgement_n either_o in_o doctrine_n discipline_n or_o holiness_n of_o life_n one_o from_o another_o which_o you_o do_v not_o or_o if_o you_o be_v mind_v to_o do_v so_o you_o must_v make_v all_o man_n in_o your_o church_n of_o your_o mind_n in_o every_o opinion_n you_o have_v or_o else_o i_o pray_v tell_v i_o for_o what_o opinion_n you_o be_v mind_v to_o make_v a_o schism_n and_o what_o not_o a._n s._n his_o three_o reason_n god_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n grant_v no_o toleration_n of_o divers_a religion_n or_o discipline_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v grant_v in_o the_o new_a since_o the_o new_a testament_n require_v no_o less_o union_n among_o christian_n than_o the_o old_a among_o jew_n m._n s._n p._n 89._o answ_n 1._o 1._o deny_v the_o consequence_n and_o the_o proof_n bring_v by_o i_o he_o grant_v so_o my_o conclusion_n must_v hold_v only_o he_o say_v it_o be_v ill_o apply_v but_o it_o be_v apply_v by_o way_n of_o argumentation_n whereof_o he_o will_v have_v do_v well_o to_o have_v show_v the_o defect_n m._n s._n pag._n 90._o and_o 91._o answ_n 4._o yet_o do_v it_o not_o require_v that_o he_o that_o be_v strong_a shall_v cudgel_v he_o that_o be_v weak_a a._n s._n god_n be_v thank_v you_o need_v not_o much_o complain_v of_o any_o cudgel_n that_o you_o have_v yet_o receive_v since_o this_o parliament_n neither_o need_v you_o to_o fear_v it_o in_o time_n to_o come_v if_o you_o force_v not_o a_o new_a religion_n upon_o the_o kingdom_n against_o their_o will_n or_o if_o you_o will_v submit_v unto_o lawful_a authority_n and_o not_o make_v your_o inconsiderable_a number_n the_o judge_n of_o all_o this_o business_n against_o the_o law_n of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o what_o you_o say_v in_o your_o second_o chapter_n we_o have_v show_v how_o absurd_a it_o be_v and_o how_o horrible_a impiety_n will_v follow_v upon_o your_o tenet_n m._n s._n p._n 89._o in_o his_o 1._o and_o 2._o answer_n to_o the_o consequence_n be_v that_o it_o follow_v not_o dare_v you_o say_v in_o matter_n of_o knowledge_n authority_n and_o power_n ero_n similis_fw-la altissimo_fw-la remember_v the_o fall_n of_o the_o son_n of_o the_o morning_n a._n s._n we_o pretend_v not_o to_o be_v like_a unto_o god_n in_o these_o consideration_n in_o go_v against_o the_o command_n as_o lucifer_n but_o in_o holiness_n as_o he_o be_v holy_a which_o can_v be_v without_o obedience_n as_o in_o the_o good_a angel_n now_o you_o confess_v yourselves_o that_o god_n have_v only_o command_v one_o discipline_n and_o government_n in_o the_o church_n under_o the_o new_a testament_n how_o be_v we_o then_o lucifer_n in_o desire_v this_o only_a and_o no_o other_o to_o be_v admit_v of_o in_o the_o church_n how_o do_v you_o then_o plead_v for_o the_o introduction_n of_o any_o other_o than_o the_o true_a discipline_n if_o baal_n be_v god_n serve_v he_o but_o if_o jehovah_n be_v god_n serve_v he_o so_o if_o independency_n be_v the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n let_v it_o be_v admit_v and_o no_o other_o and_o so_o of_o presbyterial_a and_o all_o other_o government_n we_o impose_v none_o but_o desire_v that_o the_o true_a discipline_n may_v be_v seek_v for_o and_o afterward_o impose_v by_o the_o parliament_n and_o the_o church_n by_o each_o of_o they_o according_a to_o their_o vocation_n m._n s._n his_o second_o answer_n p._n 89._o be_v that_o he_o deny_v the_o antecedent_n of_o my_o argument_n or_o rather_o distinguish_v it_o viz._n that_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n it_o be_v not_o grant_v in_o terminis_fw-la but_o in_o sensu_fw-la or_o by_o consequence_n for_o this_o must_v be_v the_o other_o part_n of_o his_o distinction_n because_o he_o prohibit_v all_o manner_n of_o violence_n and_o oppression_n and_o charge_v the_o rich_a not_o to_o enslave_v the_o poor_a a._n s._n reply_n 1._o this_o be_v no_o law_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n or_o of_o toleration_n of_o heresy_n schism_n or_o divers_a discipline_n in_o the_o church_n but_o a_o moral_a law_n and_o a_o part_n of_o the_o six_o commandment_n in_o not_o offer_v violence_n to_o the_o weak_a and_o of_o the_o eight_o thou_o shall_v not_o steal_v forbid_v all_o sort_n of_o extortion_n against_o the_o poor_a now_o you_o be_v not_o poor_a neither_o be_v there_o any_o man_n either_o of_o the_o parliament_n or_o synod_n about_o to_o take_v your_o purse_n m._n s._n yet_o the_o equity_n and_o spirit_n of_o such_o law_n extend_v to_o spirituall_n a._n
non-communion_n or_o schism_n so_o your_o supposition_n be_v false_a viz._n that_o i_o suppose_v that_o the_o ground_n of_o such_o a_o refusal_n of_o communion_n consist_v only_o in_o difference_n of_o judgement_n for_o i_o suppose_v that_o the_o ground_n of_o it_o may_v be_v a_o breach_n of_o charity_n and_o in_o particular_a person_n a_o vicious_a life_n 2._o m._n s._n shall_v have_v do_v well_o to_o declare_v we_o here_o in_o particular_a what_o be_v the_o nature_n or_o particularity_n of_o this_o difference_n betwixt_o we_o and_o they_o for_o we_o can_v in_o practicis_fw-la dispute_n accurate_o upon_o generality_n so_o abstract_a from_o all_o particularity_n if_o it_o be_v reply_v that_o it_o be_v because_o we_o admit_v vicious_a person_n unto_o our_o communion_n i_o have_v answer_v it_o in_o my_o annotation_n whereunto_o he_o pretend_v to_o answer_v he_o shall_v have_v refute_v my_o reason_n here_o as_o also_o sundry_a other_o in_o master_n rutherford_n book_n whereby_o he_o demonstrate_v how_o ridiculous_a and_o frivolous_a this_o pretext_n be_v neither_o be_v it_o needful_a that_o i_o shall_v repeal_v they_o to_o swell_v up_o a_o book_n with_o they_o m._n s._n his_o second_o answer_n if_o there_o be_v so_o many_o and_o great_a difference_n among_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n as_o you_o speak_v of_o and_o yet_o paul_n not_o way_n persuade_v the_o major_a part_n among_o they_o to_o cast_v our_o cut_v off_o or_o suppress_v the_o underling_n party_n but_o exhort_v they_o to_o mutual_a communion_n why_o do_v not_o you_o the_o like_a a._n s._n we_o cast_v you_o not_o out_o nor_o off_o but_o you_o run_v away_o we_o exhort_v you_o but_o you_o will_v not_o obey_v you_o slight_a and_o contemn_v your_o mother_n that_o beget_v you_o and_o when_o the_o house_n of_o god_n be_v to_o be_v reform_v you_o will_v have_v all_o thing_n according_a to_o your_o fancy_n or_o you_o will_v be_v go_v and_o renounce_v your_o mother_n o_o what_o sort_n of_o child_n and_o domestic_n of_o the_o faith_n be_v you_o m._n s._n his_o three_o answer_n he_o deny_v the_o assumption_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v great_a difference_n among_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n then_o betwixt_o the_o independent_o and_o our_o church_n a._n s._n i_o prove_v it_o for_o both_o they_o differ_v in_o article_n of_o faith_n some_o of_o they_o deny_v the_o resurrection_n the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o law_n and_o sacrament_n some_o of_o they_o join_v the_o law_n with_o the_o gospel_n and_o circumcision_n with_o baptism_n and_o in_o charity_n some_o cry_v up_o some_o apostle_n and_o pastor_n and_o reject_v of_o other_o other_o of_o the_o same_o church_n be_v of_o contrary_a mind_n and_o will_n without_o any_o separation_n in_o externall_n communion_n either_o in_o sacrament_n or_o government_n for_o any_o thing_n we_o read_v in_o scripture_n a._n s._n 11._o reason_n in_o substance_n be_v this_o that_o the_o opinion_n of_o our_o brethren_n symbolize_v much_o jump_v in_o conceit_n and_o that_o they_o sympathize_v with_o the_o donatist_n who_o separate_v themselves_o from_o other_o church_n under_o pretext_n that_o they_o be_v not_o so_o holy_a as_o their_o own_o neither_o be_v their_o discipline_n unlike_a to_o that_o of_o the_o convent_v and_o monastery_n among_o the_o papist_n which_o profess_v all_o one_o doctrine_n but_o be_v independent_a one_o upon_o another_o etc._n etc._n m._n s._n answer_n 1._o symbolisa_n theologia_n non_fw-la est_fw-la argumentativa_fw-la a._n s._n but_o this_o argument_n be_v take_v a_o simili_fw-la and_o hold_v quia_fw-la similium_fw-la eadem_fw-la est_fw-la ratio_fw-la viz._n in_o eo_fw-la in_fw-la quo_fw-la similia_fw-la sunt_fw-la now_o they_o be_v blame_v in_o separate_a themselves_o from_o the_o rest_n of_o those_o that_o profess_v the_o same_o doctrine_n as_o if_o they_o be_v holy_a than_o the_o rest_n ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o independent_o to_o be_v blame_v for_o the_o same_o reason_n his_o instance_n be_v childish_a and_o fond_a for_o angel_n and_o devil_n agree_v not_o in_o that_o which_o be_v unblamable_a in_o devil_n for_o that_o agreement_n shall_v be_v a_o impeachment_n both_o to_o their_o holiness_n and_o happiness_n 2._o neither_o agree_v a._n s._n with_o nestorius_n in_o make_v way_n to_o any_o heresy_n of_o his_o own_o as_o nestorius_n wherein_o he_o be_v unblamable_a 3._o no_o more_o be_v it_o to_o the_o purpose_n that_o you_o be_v not_o like_a to_o monk_n for_o their_o paunch_n idleness_n or_o in_o their_o building_n howbeit_o some_o of_o they_o be_v as_o lean_v and_o as_o busy_a in_o their_o own_o way_n as_o any_o of_o you_o independent_o can_v be_v in_o you_o neither_o be_v it_o a_o sin_n to_o be_v fat_a only_o i_o compare_v you_o with_o they_o in_o that_o wherein_o we_o all_o blame_v they_o viz._n in_o separate_n themselves_o from_o other_o under_o pretext_n of_o great_a holiness_n to_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o three_o point_n i_o reply_v that_o i_o make_v not_o this_o comparison_n betwixt_o the_o donatist_n and_o the_o apologist_n as_o m._n s._n say_v here_o but_o betwixt_o they_o and_o all_o those_o that_o be_v of_o the_o independent_o opinion_n and_o so_o to_o his_o first_o answer_n i_o reply_v that_o however_o some_o of_o the_o apologist_n of_o who_o alone_o i_o speak_v not_o have_v not_o church_n yet_o have_v they_o the_o same_o opinion_n concern_v the_o separation_n of_o their_o church_n from_o other_o that_o profess_v the_o same_o doctrine_n and_o that_o under_o pretext_n that_o they_o be_v holy_a than_o the_o rest_n second_o m._n s._n answer_v that_o neither_o in_o substance_n nor_o truth_n do_v it_o touch_v any_o of_o they_o or_o their_o opinion_n 1._o for_o they_o do_v not_o separate_v from_o other_o church_n but_o only_o in_o such_o opinion_n and_o practice_n wherein_o they_o can_v get_v leave_n of_o their_o conscience_n to_o join_v with_o they_o a._n s._n i_o have_v prove_v that_o it_o touch_v they_o in_o truth_n and_o as_o for_o his_o proof_n the_o donatist_n do_v just_a so_o whereas_o m._n s._n say_v that_o they_o of_o the_o presbytery_n differ_v in_o opinion_n and_o practice_n one_o from_o another_o a.s._n 1_o it_o be_v true_a but_o that_o be_v in_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o very_o material_a 2._o or_o if_o they_o be_v material_a they_o be_v particular_a opinion_n of_o particular_a man_n that_o be_v not_o know_v not_o of_o whole_a church_n nor_o approve_v by_o whole_a church_n 3._o and_o howbeit_o some_o of_o they_o though_o very_o few_o differ_v in_o some_o practice_n which_o be_v not_o material_a yet_o be_v it_o not_o so_o much_o they_o that_o make_v these_o difference_n as_o that_o they_o be_v compel_v by_o other_o to_o suffer_v they_o as_o they_o have_v declare_v themselves_o in_o their_o letter_n send_v to_o the_o assembly_n 4._o that_o small_a difference_n breed_v no_o schism_n or_o sect_n among_o they_o but_o they_o entertain_v mutual_a communion_n together_o both_o in_o sacrament_n and_o government_n and_o they_o admit_v one_o another_o unto_o their_o synodall_n and_o sacramental_a communion_n so_o do_v not_o independent_a church_n among_o themselves_o nor_o with_o we_o m._n s._n 2._o argument_n for_o this_o his_o assertion_n be_v because_o a._n s._n himself_o and_o his_o party_n do_v separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n because_o they_o think_v not_o that_o church_n to_o be_v so_o holy_a as_o their_o own_o a._n s._n 1._o we_o separate_v not_o ourselves_o from_o the_o romish_a church_n because_o of_o great_a or_o less_o holiness_n in_o our_o church_n or_o in_o particular_a person_n then_o in_o they_o but_o because_o we_o conceive_v that_o the_o romish_a church_n err_v in_o fundamental_n 2._o not_o only_o commit_v but_o also_o 3._o teach_v idolatry_n and_o 4._o compel_v man_n against_o their_o conscience_n to_o commit_v and_o profess_v it_o 5._o neither_o do_v we_o separate_v from_o the_o papist_n but_o they_o separate_v from_o we_o and_o do_v cast_v we_o out_o of_o their_o church_n and_o persecute_v we_o to_o death_n so_o that_o neither_o can_v we_o entertain_v communion_n with_o they_o without_o lose_v both_o body_n and_o soul_n 6._o neither_o yet_o separate_v we_o from_o any_o church_n that_o hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n with_o we_o 7._o neither_o believe_v we_o that_o any_o church_n hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n with_o we_o can_v moral_o fall_v into_o idolatry_n or_o urge_v we_o to_o be_v actor_n against_o our_o conscience_n in_o any_o idolatrous_a act_n and_o this_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n independent_o may_v have_v in_o our_o church_n 8._o we_o pray_v you_o also_o to_o declare_v unto_o we_o what_o heresy_n idolatry_n or_o great_a vice_n you_o see_v teach_v or_o approve_v of_o among_o we_o that_o shall_v compel_v you_o to_o quit_v our_o church_n as_o we_o find_v among_o the_o papist_n and_o then_o your_o argument_n
of_o one_o body_n and_o not_o to_o depart_v from_o the_o say_v particular_a church_n whereof_o they_o become_v member_n without_o the_o consent_n thereof_o the_o antecedent_n of_o this_o covenant_n be_v 1._o sundry_a meeting_n together_o of_o such_o as_o be_v to_o join_v in_o it_o till_o such_o time_n as_o they_o may_v all_o have_v a_o sufficient_a proof_n and_o trial_n of_o the_o spiritual_a estate_n one_o of_o another_o 2._o the_o civil_a magistrate_n consent_v to_o set_v up_o their_o church_n 3._o the_o consent_n of_o neighbour_n church_n 4._o they_o ordain_v a_o solemn_a fast_o and_o after_o prayer_n and_o sermon_n one_o in_o the_o name_n of_o all_o the_o rest_n propound_v the_o covenant_n 5._o and_o they_o all_o take_v it_o the_o consequent_n of_o it_o be_v 1._o the_o right_a hand_n of_o fellowship_n which_o be_v give_v they_o by_o the_o neighbour_n church_n 2._o those_o who_o join_v in_o covenant_n be_v exhort_v to_o stand_v fast_o in_o the_o lord_n 3._o follow_v a_o prayer_n make_v to_o god_n for_o pardon_n of_o their_o sin_n and_o acceptance_n of_o the_o people_n we_o condemn_v not_o all_o church-covenant_n but_o we_o can_v approve_v this_o of_o the_o independent_o 1._o because_o it_o be_v not_o command_v in_o scripture_n 2._o we_o find_v no_o example_n of_o it_o in_o scripture_n 3._o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o a_o humane_a tradition_n 4._o because_o all_o or_o almost_o all_o the_o covenant_n concern_v religion_n that_o we_o read_v of_o in_o scripture_n be_v of_o those_o that_o be_v already_o and_o not_o of_o those_o that_o be_v to_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n 5._o because_o we_o be_v in_o covenant_n with_o god_n before_o ever_o we_o come_v to_o be_v of_o age_n i_o shall_v be_v thy_o god_n and_o of_o thy_o seed_n gen._n 17.7_o item_n be_v baptize_v for_o to_o you_o and_o your_o child_n the_o promise_n be_v make_v act_v 2.38_o and_o from_o hence_o all_o protestant_n prove_v the_o baptism_n of_o infant_n against_o anabaptist_n 6._o because_o those_o that_o be_v circumcise_a in_o the_o old_a and_o that_o be_v baptise_a in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v member_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n without_o any_o vocal_a covenant_n as_o double_a c_o who_o be_v one_o of_o these_o m._n s._n ses_fw-fr as_o i_o hear_v confess_v free_o ergo_fw-la they_o must_v be_v member_n of_o some_o particular_a church_n for_o how_o can_v they_o be_v in_o the_o universal_a church_n and_o out_o of_o all_o particular_a church_n so_o a_o man_n may_v be_v in_o the_o world_n and_o in_o no_o part_n of_o it_o or_o out_o of_o all_o the_o part_n of_o it_o 7._o because_o if_o child_n circumcise_a or_o baptise_a be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n their_o condition_n shall_v be_v no_o better_o then_o that_o of_o jew_n and_o pagan_n which_o can_v be_v no_o great_a consolation_n to_o any_o christian_a parent_n 8._o if_o a_o man_n of_o one_o church_n shall_v take_v to_o wife_n one_o of_o another_o a_o hundred_o mile_n distant_a from_o he_o she_o must_v adhere_v to_o her_o husband_n live_v with_o he_o and_o so_o quit_v she_o own_o church_n and_o be_v out_o of_o all_o church_n like_o a_o pagan_a for_o she_o can_v be_v admit_v to_o the_o church_n whereunto_o she_o go_v but_o after_o a_o long_a trial_n so_o to_o be_v marry_v she_o become_v as_o a_o pagan_a 9_o such_o a_o oath_n or_o promise_n be_v not_o lawful_a for_o a_o man_n may_v have_v just_a cause_n which_o be_v not_o evermore_o to_o be_v declare_v to_o a_o whole_a church_n that_o may_v oblige_v he_o to_o go_v and_o live_v elsewhere_o in_o a_o other_o church_n 10._o because_o the_o apostle_n evangelist_n and_o their_o follower_n can_v not_o lawful_o enter_v into_o any_o such_o covenant_n since_o they_o be_v universal_a minister_n &_o consequent_o member_n of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n 11._o neither_o can_v they_o make_v such_o a_o trial_n of_o three_o thousand_o person_n that_o in_o seven_o or_o eight_o hour_n time_n be_v add_v unto_o the_o church_n act_v 2.12_o such_o a_o covenant_n include_v a_o tacit_a schism_n and_o separation_n from_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n 13._o neither_o do_v the_o apostle_n and_o other_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n for_o the_o first_o three_o hundred_o year_n require_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n consent_v to_o set_v up_o their_o church_n 14._o neither_o be_v it_o necessary_a to_o the_o internal_a constitution_n or_o conservation_n of_o it_o since_o it_o be_v extrinsecall_v to_o the_o church_n 15._o and_o some_o time_n it_o be_v impossible_a to_o be_v have_v as_o when_o he_o be_v a_o pagan_a or_o a_o antichristian_a christian_a the_o final_a cause_n of_o their_o church_n they_o pretend_v to_o be_v 1._o god_n glory_n 2._o the_o salvation_n of_o the_o church_n and_o every_o member_n thereof_o 3._o the_o internal_a and_o externall_n act_v of_o mutual_a communion_n in_o faith_n and_o charity_n the_o matter_n of_o their_o church_n they_o hold_v to_o be_v such_o person_n as_o can_v give_v some_o particular_a evidence_n of_o save_a grace_n and_o of_o their_o election_n and_o who_o enter_v into_o church-covenant_n together_o such_o as_o may_v be_v arminian_n as_o master_n goodwin_n alius_fw-la m._n s._n and_o as_o for_o the_o member_n of_o other_o church_n whether_o they_o be_v dependent_n or_o independent_o they_o will_v not_o admit_v they_o to_o the_o lord_n table_n nor_o baptise_v their_o child_n upon_o any_o letter_n of_o recommendation_n that_o they_o can_v bring_v from_o other_o church_n yea_o howbeit_o they_o give_v a_o sufficient_a account_n of_o their_o faith_n and_o live_v without_o give_v any_o offence_n at_o all_o to_o any_o man_n and_o so_o they_o hold_v they_o little_a better_o than_o pagan_n the_o integrant_fw-la p_o rts_fw-fr of_o this_o church_n be_v the_o flock_n or_o people_n and_o the_o ruler_n viz._n preacher_n teacher_n rule_v elder_n and_o deacon_n they_o admit_v none_o to_o be_v rule_v elder_n but_o such_o as_o preach_v yea_o to_o the_o people_n they_o give_v liberty_n to_o preach_v also_o and_o so_o quite_o confound_v the_o office_n of_o preacher_n and_o rule_v elder_n which_o the_o apostle_n distinguish_v rom._n 12._o 1_o cor._n 12._o eph._n 4._o 1_o tim._n 5._o matth._n 18._o so_o they_o confound_v the_o charge_n of_o the_o pastor_n with_o the_o duty_n of_o the_o sheep_n and_o a_o ruler_n with_o he_o that_o be_v rule_v the_o form_n of_o their_o church_n seem_v to_o consist_v in_o their_o church-covenant_n the_o accident_n of_o it_o be_v 1._o the_o number_n viz._n the_o small_a seven_o person_n and_o the_o great_a as_o many_o as_o can_v convenient_o meet_v in_o one_o place_n for_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o holy_a ordinance_n of_o god_n 2._o their_o doctrine_n which_o may_v be_v arminian_n as_o appear_v by_o m._n s._n alias_o master_n goodwin_n who_o hold_v very_o many_o arminian_n tenet_n as_o justification_n by_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v a_o act_n or_o quality_n etc._n etc._n item_n as_o some_o testify_v of_o he_o a_o sleep_v of_o the_o soul_n 3._o they_o have_v no_o common_a confession_n of_o faith_n or_o platform_n of_o discipline_n in_o their_o church_n neither_o will_v they_o have_v any_o yea_o they_o will_v not_o have_v any_o constant_a confession_n of_o faith_n or_o platform_n of_o discipline_n in_o any_o particular_a such_o be_v the_o liberty_n or_o rather_o the_o licentiousness_n of_o their_o faith_n and_o discipline_n 4._o the_o power_n to_o teach_v which_o they_o gram_n as_o i_o have_v already_o say_v not_o only_o to_o preacher_n but_o also_o to_o rule_v elder_n and_o some_o of_o the_o people_n 5._o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n which_o they_o put_v in_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o people_n yea_o of_o the_o most_o ignorant_a impertinent_a and_o insufficient_a of_o they_o who_o have_v power_n to_o create_v their_o own_o minister_n to_o examine_v their_o doctrine_n and_o sufficiency_n and_o afterward_o to_o admit_v they_o to_o the_o charge_n but_o whether_o they_o have_v 1._o ability_n 2._o 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great_a and_o first_o so_o be_v it_o say_v without_o blasphemy_n god_n shall_v have_v be_v in_o the_o wrong_n in_o command_v it_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n second_o and_o it_o be_v very_o strange_a that_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v punish_v for_o offend_v a_o man_n and_o not_o for_o blaspheme_v the_o good_a name_n of_o god_n three_o so_o he_o shall_v be_v punish_v for_o call_v some_o independent_o knave_n but_o not_o for_o call_v jesus_n christ_n the_o sun_n of_o god_n and_o the_o redeemer_n of_o our_o soul_n a_o knave_n finis_fw-la
sect_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n neither_o have_v i_o ever_o hear_v of_o any_o petition_n make_v about_o it_o much_o less_o for_o any_o independent_a government_n m._n s._n and_o where_o conscience_n be_v tender_a a_o little_a violence_n be_v a_o great_a torment_n to_o it_o a._n s._n it_o have_v be_v tell_v you_o twenty_o time_n 1._o that_o no_o man_n violate_v or_o force_v your_o conscience_n 2._o and_o all_o sect_n bring_v the_o same_o pretext_n of_o tender_a conscience_n 3._o and_o we_o tell_v you_o again_o that_o your_o way_n be_v not_o way_n of_o tender_a but_o of_o turbulent_a conscience_n a._n s._n 3._o argument_n no_o state_n in_o christendom_n where_o there_o be_v one_o only_a religion_n establish_v will_v admit_v the_o public_a exercise_n of_o any_o other_o or_o endure_v a_o schism_n in_o that_o which_o be_v already_o receive_v wherefore_o then_o shall_v it_o be_v do_v here_o m._n s._n his_o three_o reason_n 1._o suppose_v that_o malignant_a supposition_n viz._n that_o presbytery_n and_o apologism_n make_v two_o differ_a religion_n 2._o that_o there_o be_v no_o state_n in_o christendom_n etc._n etc._n 3._o that_o apologism_n in_o case_n it_o be_v tolerate_v must_v needs_o become_v a_o schism_n in_o that_o religion_n which_o be_v establish_v in_o the_o land_n a._n s._n to_o the_o first_o i_o answer_v 1._o that_o neither_o i_o do_v suppose_v nor_o yet_o can_v suppose_v any_o such_o thing_n for_o we_o see_v no_o common_a confession_n of_o faith_n of_o the_o apologism_n neither_o will_v the_o apologist_n be_v know_v or_o declare_v their_o tenet_n but_o be_v evermore_o in_o the_o synod_n and_o out_o of_o the_o synod_n observe_v what_o be_v there_o say_v or_o do_v take_v their_o advantage_n upon_o all_o occasion_n and_o shape_a their_o tenet_n according_a to_o the_o current_n of_o the_o time_n 2._o if_o the_o word_n religion_n be_v take_v in_o a_o large_a signification_n as_o it_o contain_v in_o itself_o both_o doctrine_n and_o 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and_o pertinacious_o persevere_fw-la in_o it_o but_o schism_n be_v a_o breach_n of_o christian_a charity_n only_o whereby_o man_n separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o true_a church_n and_o after_o sufficient_a conviction_n pertinacious_o persevere_v in_o the_o same_o here_o i_o take_v heresy_n and_o schism_n in_o a_o strict_a signification_n as_o they_o be_v take_v by_o divine_n both_o protestant_n and_o schoolman_n when_o they_o distinguish_v they_o one_o from_o another_o if_o he_o admit_v these_o definition_n which_o be_v ordinary_o approve_v of_o in_o the_o school_n we_o may_v examine_v thereby_o the_o independency_n and_o see_v whether_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n or_o a_o heresy_n or_o not_o if_o he_o reject_v it_o i_o will_v pray_v he_o to_o give_v we_o some_o better_a one_o i_o say_v not_o that_o independency_n be_v a_o schism_n or_o that_o the_o independent_a
difference_n but_o evermore_o by_o their_o externall_n cause_n or_o by_o their_o accident_n and_o sometime_o by_o their_o opposite_n and_o negation_n of_o some_o other_o thing_n the_o very_a apprentice_n in_o logic_n know_v thus_o much_o 4._o but_o if_o we_o know_v the_o essence_n of_o thing_n in_o themselves_o as_o this_o m.s._n pretend_v if_o he_o say_v any_o thing_n to_o purpose_n how_o be_v it_o that_o there_o be_v so_o great_a debate_n about_o they_o as_o 1._o about_o the_o soul_n of_o a_o man_n whether_o it_o be_v spiritual_a or_o corporal_a 2._o about_o the_o total_a essence_n of_o a_o man_n whether_o it_o be_v the_o soul_n alone_o his_o soul_n and_o body_n the_o soul_n and_o its_o materia_fw-la prima_fw-la the_o union_n of_o both_o the_o image_n of_o god_n religion_n or_o some_o other_o thing_n and_o to_o urge_v this_o more_o home_n upon_o your_o example_n of_o the_o light_n if_o we_o know_v the_o essence_n of_o thing_n distinct_o and_o in_o themselves_o as_o i_o say_v what_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o so_o great_a a_o diversity_n yea_o of_o so_o great_a a_o contrariety_n of_o opinion_n about_o its_o essence_n or_o nature_n how_o be_v it_o that_o some_o philosopher_n hold_v it_o to_o be_v in_o some_o predicament_n other_o to_o be_v in_o none_o some_o to_o be_v a_o substance_n other_o a_o accident_n some_o to_o be_v a_o spiritual_a substance_n other_o to_o be_v a_o body_n other_o neither_o viz._n neither_o to_o be_v a_o corporeal_a nor_o a_o spiritual_a but_o a_o spiritalis_fw-la substantia_fw-la other_o the_o presence_n of_o a_o luminous_a body_n other_o a_o real_a colour_n other_o a_o apparent_a colour_n other_o a_o spiritual_a quality_n some_o a_o natural_a power_n other_o a_o sensible_a quality_n if_o we_o know_v it_o essential_o and_o distinct_o in_o itself_o and_o not_o mere_o accidental_o we_o can_v not_o so_o doubt_v of_o its_o essence_n wherein_o it_o consist_v but_o it_o seem_v that_o this_o man_n doctor_n holmes_n and_o some_o of_o that_o sect_n be_v as_o heretical_a in_o philosophy_n as_o schismatical_a in_o divinity_n and_o so_o they_o have_v conspire_v with_o as_o little_a success_n against_o natural_a as_o against_o divine_a truth_n m.s._n say_v that_o my_o meaning_n may_v be_v that_o if_o a_o toleration_n be_v grant_v for_o independency_n the_o practice_n of_o it_o shall_v become_v a_o schism_n from_o the_o presbyterian_a church_n a.s._n no_o such_o thing_n but_o i_o maintain_v that_o independency_n be_v already_o at_o least_o material_o yea_o formal_o ratione_fw-la formae_fw-la essentialis_fw-la &_o in_o foro_fw-la conscientiae_fw-la interno_fw-la a_o schism_n from_o all_o the_o true_a church_n in_o the_o world_n since_o they_o willing_o have_v separate_v themselves_o from_o they_o all_o in_o matter_n of_o sacramental_a communion_n as_o also_o in_o that_o of_o discipline_n and_o you_o shall_v have_v do_v well_o to_o have_v answer_v this_o which_o no_o doubt_n you_o meet_v with_o in_o my_o former_a book_n and_o not_o oblige_v i_o to_o repeat_v it_o here_o it_o will_v also_o be_v a_o schism_n ratione_fw-la formae_fw-la accidentalis_fw-la externae_fw-la &_o in_o fore_n externo_fw-la from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n if_o in_o god_n mercy_n any_o other_o discipline_n then_o independent_a be_v establish_v in_o it_o so_o be_v it_o also_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o presbyterian_a church_n which_o be_v already_o establish_v in_o france_n holland_n etc._n etc._n yea_o and_o here_o in_o england_n in_o the_o french_a dutch_a italian_a and_o spanish_a church_n so_o be_v it_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n the_o discipline_n whereof_o be_v approve_v by_o the_o king_n which_o you_o have_v all_o swear_v to_o maintain_v but_o say_v he_o we_o have_v no_o presbyterian_a church_n among_o we_o and_o so_o if_o a_o toleration_n be_v grant_v before_o such_o a_o government_n be_v establish_v it_o be_v apparent_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d out_o of_o the_o reach_n of_o such_o a_o imputation_n for_o ever_o a._n s._n 1._o it_o be_v false_a that_o we_o have_v no_o presbyterian_a church_n among_o we_o we_o have_v it_o in_o the_o french_a dutch_a and_o other_o church_n wherewith_o the_o church_n of_o england_n profess_v evermore_o a_o sacramental_a communion_n which_o the_o independent_o break_v 2._o whether_o it_o be_v grant_v by_o the_o parliament_n or_o not_o that_o hinder_v it_o not_o from_o be_v a_o schism_n for_o the_o toleration_n of_o the_o parliament_n be_v altogether_o extrinsecall_v to_o schism_n and_o there_o be_v schism_n in_o the_o primitive_a church_n without_o any_o toleration_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n 3._o his_o supposition_n be_v impious_a and_o ridiculous_a for_o toleration_n according_a to_o m.s._n his_o judgement_n be_v evermore_o of_o some_o real_a or_o at_o least_o of_o some_o apparent_a evil_n now_o can_v the_o parliament_n or_o the_o assembly_n of_o divine_n in_o good_a conscience_n tolerate_v a_o ill_a government_n before_o that_o they_o establish_v any_o good_a one_o be_v not_o that_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o devil_n to_o serve_v he_o before_o that_o we_o serve_v god_n shall_v not_o the_o parliament_n begin_v with_o you_o as_o the_o most_o considerable_a party_n a._n s._n his_o 4._o reason_n if_o a_o toleration_n be_v grant_v to_o our_o brethren_n i_o can_v see_v how_o it_o can_v be_v well_o deny_v to_o other_o sect_n m.s._n answer_v that_o bernardus_n non_fw-la videt_fw-la omne_fw-la a.s._n but_o i_o pray_v you_o then_o father_n epistemon_n that_o see_v all_o thing_n make_v i_o by_o some_o reason_n or_o other_o to_o see_v how_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v to_o other_o sect_n for_o there_o be_v the_o same_o reason_n for_o a_o toleration_n of_o they_o all_o m.s._n bring_v this_o reason_n he_o say_v he_o that_o keep_v a_o door_n with_o lock_n and_o key_n and_o bolt_n to_o it_o may_v let_v in_o one_o man_n that_o knock_v without_o let_v in_o all_o comer_n a.s._n but_o if_o the_o other_o knock_v also_o wherefore_o will_v he_o not_o open_v to_o he_o and_o let_v he_o in_o as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o if_o he_o open_v not_o there_o be_v no_o reason_n but_o will_v that_o keep_v he_o out_o so_o there_o be_v the_o same_o reason_n but_o not_o the_o same_o will_n for_o both_o it_o be_v a_o mere_a prosopolepsiia_n or_o acceptation_n of_o person_n which_o be_v not_o well_o do_v if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o other_o sect_n differ_v more_o from_o we_o than_o the_o independent_o ans_fw-fr 1._o it_o be_v all_o one_o magis_fw-la &_o minus_fw-la non_fw-la mutant_fw-la speciem_fw-la in_o matter_n of_o toleration_n 1._o for_o then_o all_o must_v be_v tolerate_v howsoever_o some_o more_o some_o less_o 2._o and_o some_o of_o our_o brethren_n viz._n m._n s._n grant_v all_o the_o argument_n 3._o and_o if_o we_o distinguish_v so_o they_o must_v declare_v and_o expound_v clear_o what_o sect_n and_o what_o opinion_n be_v to_o be_v tolerate_v and_o what_o not_o which_o will_v be_v a_o question_n inextricable_a which_o no_o mortal_a man_n appear_o be_v able_a distinct_o to_o determine_v m._n s._n answer_v not_o to_o any_o of_o my_o reason_n only_o he_o be_v offend_v that_o i_o say_v it_o be_v a_o question_n inextricable_a etc._n etc._n he_o say_v then_o 1._o that_o i_o prevaricate_v with_o my_o own_o cause_n but_o wherein_o here_o altum_fw-la silentium_fw-la 2._o he_o say_v that_o i_o put_v the_o magistrate_n to_o a_o stand_n whether_o he_o shall_v tolerate_v presbyterian_a government_n or_o not_o but_o i_o have_v already_o answer_v 1._o that_o it_o be_v already_o approve_a here_o in_o england_n in_o the_o french_a dutch_a italian_a and_o spanish_a church_n 2._o that_o the_o english_a divine_n in_o the_o name_n of_o all_o this_o kingdom_n approve_v it_o in_o holland_n 3._o that_o the_o king_n majesty_n confirm_v it_o in_o scotland_n 4._o that_o we_o entertain_v sacramental_a communion_n with_o all_o the_o protestant_n reform_v church_n and_o that_o the_o independent_o alone_o do_v quit_v it_o 5._o that_o all_o the_o three_o 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yea_o if_o it_o seem_v good_a to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n it_o shall_v seem_v good_a to_o all_o his_o minister_n 2._o and_o i_o pray_v you_o m.s._n when_o it_o seem_v good_a to_o a_o independent_a minister_n to_o declare_v the_o doctrine_n that_o deni_v christ_n divinity_n heretical_a whether_o think_v you_o seem_v it_o not_o good_a to_o god_n and_o to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n also_o and_o if_o it_o seem_v good_a to_o both_o why_o may_v not_o the_o minister_n say_v it_o seem_v good_a to_o god_n and_o to_o i_o also_o to_o declare_v this_o heretical_a 3._o and_o if_o that_o be_v bind_v or_o loose_v in_o heaven_n which_o the_o church_n bind_v or_o lose_v on_o earth_n wherefore_o when_o they_o bound_v or_o loose_a sinner_n may_v they_o not_o say_v it_o seem_v good_a to_o god_n and_o to_o i_o also_o to_o loose_v this_o sinner_n to_o the_o 10._o i_o answer_v it_o be_v altogether_o ridiculous_a for_o this_o one_o particular_a expression_n contain_v not_o all_o the_o expression_n that_o be_v use_v in_o ecclesiastical_a judgement_n the_o church_n use_v not_o evermore_o commination_n in_o her_o judgement_n but_o against_o such_o as_o be_v disobedient_a and_o that_o after_o sundry_a admonition_n neither_o be_v every_o judgement_n or_o law_n evermore_o express_o penal_a as_o you_o may_v have_v learn_v both_o out_o of_o your_o civil_a and_o canon_n law_n chap._n viii_o wherein_o the_o same_o doctrine_n be_v further_o confirm_v by_o reason_n this_o subordination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n may_v be_v likewise_o prove_v by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n there_o be_v synagogicall_a and_o synedriall_a judicatories_n among_o they_o there_o be_v a_o subordination_n and_o from_o the_o first_o they_o appeal_v to_o the_o second_o neither_o find_v we_o ever_o that_o god_n abrogate_a it_o since_o it_o be_v not_o ceremonial_a as_o i_o have_v show_v 2._o it_o may_v likewise_o be_v prove_v from_o the_o subordination_n of_o civil_a judicatories_n in_o all_o great_a civil_a state_n and_o there_o be_v a_o like_a reason_n for_o they_o both_o 3._o if_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o there_o be_v ecclesiastical_a assembly_n great_a in_o authority_n one_o then_o another_o as_o appeareth_z by_o all_o these_o former_a text_n either_o this_o inequality_n of_o greatness_n or_o power_n be_v by_o co-ordination_a or_o by_o subordination_n but_o it_o can_v be_v by_o co-ordination_a for_o one_o coordinate_a power_n have_v no_o power_n over_o the_o other_o as_o that_o of_o jerusalem_n have_v over_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n in_o give_v they_o a_o pastor_n act._n 1.2_o &_o 6._o chap._n and_o law_n and_o command_n act._n 15._o &_o 16._o ergo_fw-la it_o must_v be_v by_o subordination_n and_o then_o the_o power_n of_o the_o subordinate_a church_n be_v under_o that_o of_o the_o superior_a church_n whereunto_o it_o be_v subordinate_v as_o in_o civil_a judicatories_n subordinate_v one_o to_o another_o 4._o if_o there_o be_v no_o subordination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n in_o matter_n of_o power_n and_o authority_n or_o their_o authoritative_a power_n then_o any_o particular_a congregation_n by_o a_o irresistible_a power_n in_o despite_n of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o the_o world_n may_v establish_v among_o themselves_o all_o sort_n of_o most_o damnable_a heresy_n commit_v all_o sort_n of_o sin_n and_o uncleanness_n and_o so_o infect_v all_o the_o world_n with_o their_o wickedness_n and_o no_o church_n or_o christian_n qua_fw-la tale_n can_v hinder_v they_o or_o say_v to_o they_o even_o as_o the_o pope_n pretend_v they_o can_v say_v to_o he_o domine_fw-la quare_fw-la hoc_fw-la facis_fw-la 5._o but_o can_v our_o adversary_n rise_v up_o of_o the_o new_a show_v any_o such_o government_n as_o they_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o any_o time_n since_o christ_n incarnation_n yea_o from_o the_o creation_n of_o the_o world_n to_o this_o time_n wherein_o there_o be_v no_o subalternation_n but_o a_o mere_a independency_n among_o all_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n we_o can_v wish_v they_o will_v show_v we_o the_o institution_n of_o it_o in_o scripture_n where_o any_o where_o christ_n command_v that_o all_o church_n shall_v be_v altogether_o independent_a and_o consequent_o incorrigible_a where_o at_o any_o time_n he_o grant_v they_o such_o a_o licentiousness_n of_o power_n to_o go_v irresistable_o to_o hell_n what_o a_o abominable_a licentiousness_n be_v this_o to_o plead_v on_o this_o manner_n for_o all_o sort_n of_o independency_n and_o of_o ecclesiastical_a impunity_n in_o do_v of_o all_o sort_n of_o wickedness_n and_o mischief_n 6._o the_o want_n of_o this_o subordination_n take_v away_o all_o sort_n of_o remedy_n against_o the_o offence_n of_o particular_a congregation_n 7._o it_o destroy_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o militant_a visible_a church_n both_o provincial_n nationall_n and_o universal_a which_o can_v appear_v but_o in_o a_o provincial_n nationall_n or_o universal_a synod_n or_o council_n 8._o and_o consequent_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n for_o she_o be_v not_o visible_a but_o in_o her_o symbol_n or_o confession_n of_o faith_n and_o canon_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o symbol_n of_o the_o apostle_n 9_o to_o take_v away_o such_o representative_a church_n as_o synod_n be_v to_o destroy_v the_o externall_n church-communion_n of_o saint_n or_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n among_o divers_a church_n which_o can_v so_o well_o appear_v as_o in_o synod_n where_o their_o real_a communion_n one_o with_o another_o be_v best_a represent_v for_o if_o particular_a church_n be_v destroy_v by_o persecution_n and_o a_o little_a remnant_n escape_v as_o sometime_o it_o fall_v out_o upon_o the_o turk_n invasion_n and_o the_o papist_n massacre_n as_o woeful_a experience_n have_v furnish_v we_o but_o too_o many_o example_n in_o germany_n france_n england_n and_o elsewhere_o what_o externall_n union_n or_o communion_n of_o saint_n can_v appear_v among_o you_o since_o in_o such_o a_o case_n you_o will_v neither_o receive_v man_n in_o age_n to_o the_o lord_n table_n nor_o the_o child_n of_o such_o martyr_n to_o baptism_n and_o so_o all_o the_o recompense_n they_o can_v have_v among_o you_o for_o all_o their_o suffering_n for_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n be_v that_o they_o be_v like_a to_o be_v utter_o exclude_v from_o all_o church-communion_n whatsoever_o 10._o so_o this_o be_v a_o very_a poor_a comfort_n for_o martyr_n who_o have_v suffer_v much_o in_o their_o own_o person_n lose_v their_o wife_n child_n and_o good_n for_o the_o good_a name_n of_o christ_n shall_v no_o more_o now_o be_v esteem_v christian_n after_o all_o their_o suffering_n whereas_o they_o be_v think_v to_o be_v of_o the_o very_o best_a before_o that_o time_n 11._o such_o a_o subordination_n of_o representative_a church_n in_o matter_n of_o government_n be_v a_o mean_n very_o necessary_a to_o conserve_v the_o church_n for_o by_o the_o authoritative_a power_n thereof_o church_n be_v keep_v in_o order_n unity_n and_o union_n and_o so_o preserve_v as_o we_o see_v in_o france_n holland_n scotland_n and_o elsewhere_o ever_o since_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o world_n whereas_o by_o the_o contrary_a independent_a way_n consist_v of_o dis-union_n they_o may_v easy_o be_v destroy_v as_o we_o see_v in_o the_o innumerable_a number_n of_o sect_n that_o in_o a_o short_a space_n of_o time_n have_v sprout_v out_o of_o the_o independent_a sect_n no_o less_o opposite_a one_o to_o another_o then_o to_o we_o 12._o if_o there_o be_v no_o subordination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n but_o every_o one_o be_v independent_a and_o every_o member_n of_o the_o church_n have_v a_o vote_n in_o all_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n and_o be_v make_v acquaint_v with_o all_o that_o pass_v as_o among_o the_o independent_o hardly_o can_v the_o counsel_n and_o the_o resolution_n that_o be_v take_v for_o mutual_a conservation_n be_v keep_v secret_a but_o they_o will_v every_o hour_n be_v betray_v and_o so_o the_o church_n give_v up_o to_o her_o enemy_n which_o appear_o can_v so_o easy_o fall_v out_o in_o the_o synodical_a way_n wherein_o 20._o 30._o or_o 40._o only_a and_o those_o of_o the_o best_a sort_n and_o the_o wise_a man_n be_v acquaint_v with_o the_o business_n for_o in_o all_o moral_a probability_n it_o be_v not_o credible_a but_o 20._o 30._o or_o 40._o may_n better_o keep_v a_o business_n secret_a then_o 20000._o or_o 30000_o whereof_o the_o church_n that_o they_o represent_v may_v be_v compound_v 13._o since_o christ_n ordain_v universal_a minister_n to_o rule_v over_o the_o whole_a militant_a church_n and_o all_o the_o particular_a congregation_n thereof_o wherefore_o shall_v there_o not_o be_v some_o unity_n of_o government_n among_o they_o and_o wherefore_o may_v they_o not_o all_o depend_v on_o one_o council_n as_o well_o as_o on_o one_o man_n certain_o there_o be_v the_o same_o reason_n for_o both_o for_o as_o the_o apostle_n
the_o contrary_n appear_v by_o our_o reason_n 6._o yet_o be_v it_o something_o that_o i_o have_v reason_n for_o i_o and_o he_o none_o yea_o nothing_o but_o his_o independent_a will_n m._n s._n will_v not_o make_v good_a the_o reason_n bring_v for_o this_o opinion_n by_o the_o apologist_n which_o i_o have_v abundant_o resute_v but_o prove_v as_o follow_v that_o a_o withdraw_a of_o christian_a communion_n from_o person_n walk_v inordinate_o be_v a_o ordinance_n or_o mean_v appoint_v by_o god_n for_o the_o reduce_n and_o reclaim_v of_o they_o 2._o thes_n 3.6.14_o we_o warn_v you_o brethren_n in_o the_o name_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n that_o you_o withdraw_v yourselves_o from_o every_o brother_n that_o walk_v inordinate_o a._n s._n i_o add_v the_o rest_n verse_n 7._o for_o we_o behave_v not_o ourselves_o inordinate_o among_o you_o verse_n 8._o neither_o do_v we_o eat_v any_o man_n bread_n for_o nought_o but_o wrought_v with_o labour_n and_o travel_n night_n and_o day_n that_o we_o may_v not_o be_v chargeable_a to_o any_o of_o you_o verse_n 10._o this_o we_o command_v you_o that_o if_o any_o will_v not_o work_v neither_o shall_v he_o eat_v verse_n 11._o for_o we_o hear_v that_o there_o be_v some_o which_o walk_v among_o you_o inordinate_o work_v not_o at_o all_o but_o be_v busybody_n verse_n 14._o if_o any_o man_n obey_v not_o our_o word_n by_o this_o epistle_n note_v that_o man_n and_o have_v no_o company_n with_o he_o that_o he_o may_v be_v ashamed_a verse_n 15._o yet_o count_v he_o not_o as_o a_o enemy_n but_o admonish_v he_o as_o a_o brother_n a._n s._n but_o this_o proof_n be_v no_o better_o then_o that_o of_o the_o apologist_n and_o to_o answer_v it_o i_o will_v not_o serve_v myself_o with_o the_o answer_n that_o some_o man_n bring_v here_o viz._n that_o this_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n be_v not_o to_o be_v take_v of_o the_o great_a excommunication_n which_o only_o you_o seem_v to_o acknowledge_v for_o excommunication_n nor_o of_o the_o lesser_a which_o you_o seem_v to_o call_v non-communion_n or_o with_o the_o apostle_n here_o withdraw_v of_o christian_a communion_n 2._o or_o that_o it_o be_v a_o commandment_n only_o give_v to_o particular_a person_n to_o forbear_v such_o person_n who_o be_v idle_a and_o yet_o busybody_n run_v from_o house_n to_o house_n live_v upon_o other_o man_n charge_n under_o pretext_n peradventure_o of_o piety_n but_o not_o to_o the_o church_n to_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o that_o because_o the_o apostle_n add_v v._o 15._o yet_o count_v he_o not_o as_o a_o enemy_n but_o as_o a_o brother_n for_o this_o reason_n be_v weak_a and_o a_o excommunicate_a person_n if_o he_o be_v excommunicate_v excommunicatione_n minori_fw-la yea_o and_o sometime_o majori_fw-la may_v be_v account_v as_o a_o brother_n so_o long_o as_o there_o be_v any_o hope_n of_o his_o repentance_n i_o have_v rather_o say_v 1._o that_o here_o the_o apostle_n speak_v of_o excommunication_n 1._o because_o he_o say_v note_v he_o i._n e._n that_o he_o may_v be_v discern_v from_o other_o 2._o he_o say_v have_v no_o company_n or_o meddle_v not_o with_o he_o now_o what_o be_v excommunication_n but_o to_o have_v no_o communion_n or_o company_n with_o a_o man_n 2._o i_o say_v that_o he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o great_a but_o of_o the_o lesser_a excommunication_n 1._o because_o that_o it_o be_v not_o for_o any_o great_a crime_n but_o for_o a_o ordinary_a sin_n viz._n idleness_n 2._o because_o this_o note_n of_o excommunication_n be_v only_o that_o he_o may_v be_v ashamed_a 3._o because_o he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v repute_v for_o a_o enemy_n of_o the_o church_n but_o as_o a_o brother_n 4._o because_o the_o apostle_n bid_v only_o note_v he_o and_o admonish_v he_o which_o be_v less_o than_o to_o be_v give_v over_o to_o satan_n yea_o it_o be_v credible_a that_o it_o be_v only_o a_o private_a suspension_n from_o the_o lord_n table_n not_o in_o public_a in_o face_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n but_o before_o the_o particular_a presbytery_n 3._o he_o seem_v not_o to_o speak_v direct_o of_o whole_a church_n but_o of_o particular_a person_n 1._o since_o he_o say_v from_o every_o brother_n vers_n 6._o 2._o because_o he_o say_v that_o there_o be_v some_o among_o you_o that_o walk_v inordinate_o now_o the_o whole_a church_n can_v be_v say_v to_o be_v among_o the_o church_n or_o some_o of_o the_o church_n but_o particular_a person_n only_o 3._o because_o he_o say_v if_o any_o man_n obey_v not_o let_v that_o man_n be_v note_v but_o if_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v such_o there_o shall_v be_v none_o there_o to_o note_v he_o 4._o that_o man_n can_v signify_v that_o church_n 5._o because_o the_o apostle_n vers_fw-la 15._o command_v to_o admonish_v he_o as_o a_o brother_n but_o a_o brother_n be_v not_o a_o church_n 4._o and_o nevertheless_o howsoever_o the_o apostle_n speak_v principal_o direct_o and_o formal_o of_o the_o excommunication_n of_o person_n yet_o must_v he_o consequent_o and_o direct_o mean_v also_o the_o excommunication_n of_o church_n and_o that_o for_o the_o reason_n that_o i_o bring_v else_o where_o viz._n in_o the_o observation_n and_o annotation_n upon_o the_o apologetical_a narration_n page_n 43._o §_o 2._o 1._o for_o church_n offence_n may_v deserve_v it_o 2._o the_o scripture_n have_v nothing_o to_o the_o contrary_a of_o excommunication_n of_o church_n 3_o because_o there_o be_v the_o same_o reason_n for_o the_o excommunication_n of_o whole_a church_n as_o of_o particular_a person_n viz._n the_o take_v away_o of_o scandal_n and_o the_o conversion_n of_o sinner_n 1_o cor._n 5.5_o 2_o cor._n 2.7_o 2._o thes_n 3.14_o 1_o tim._n 1.20_o and_o that_o such_o a_o contagion_n infect_v not_o other_o 1_o cor._n 5.6_o 7._o and_o this_o reason_n m._n s._n very_o wise_o borrow_v from_o i_o in_o this_o place_n say_v there_o be_v the_o same_o reason_n of_o church_n in_o this_o behalf_n which_o there_o be_v of_o person_n m._n s._n to_o a._n s._n page_n 76._o only_o this_o i_o note_v here_o that_o if_o there_o be_v the_o same_o reason_n of_o church_n ergo_fw-la as_o a_o particular_a person_n may_v be_v excommunicate_v excommunicatione_n minori_fw-la by_o a_o public_a or_o a_o particular_a sentence_n of_o non_fw-fr communion_n for_o a_o lesser_a fault_n so_o may_v a_o whole_a church_n and_o consequent_o as_o a_o particular_a person_n may_v be_v excommunicate_v excommunicatione_n majori_fw-la for_o a_o very_a great_a sin_n and_o wickedness_n so_o may_v a_o whole_a particular_a church_n which_o the_o independent_a sect_n will_v no_o way_n grant_v and_o this_o i_o pray_v the_o reader_n to_o observe_v and_o to_o press_v it_o against_o they_o for_o i_o be_o assure_v they_o can_v here_o escape_v unless_o m._n s._n escape_v they_o 4._o because_o 7000._o church_n may_v as_o well_o excommunicate_a one_o compound_v of_o seventeen_o person_n as_o that_o one_o may_v excommunicate_v seven_o of_o its_o member_n 5._o because_o a_o heretical_a church_n be_v excommunicate_v in_o heaven_n wherefore_o then_o shall_v she_o not_o be_v excommunicate_v by_o christ_n minister_n here_o upon_o earth_n when_o they_o learn_v it_o by_o scripture_n must_v not_o the_o church_n here_o upon_o earth_n concur_v as_o well_o with_o god_n sentence_n in_o heaven_n as_o god_n with_o they_o here_o upon_o earth_n matth._n 18_o 6._o because_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n excommunicate_v that_o of_o the_o ten_o tribe_n m._n s._n his_o second_o answer_n to_o this_o argument_n suppose_v there_o be_v no_o such_o sufficient_a or_o satisfactory_a remedy_n for_o the_o inconveniency_n mention_v in_o the_o way_n of_o the_o apologist_n yet_o lawyer_n have_v a_o say_n that_o a_o mischief_n be_v better_a than_o a_o inconveniency_n etc._n etc._n and_o afterward_o now_o then_o much_o better_a be_v it_o to_o want_v a_o remedy_n against_o such_o a_o evil_a which_o possible_o may_v not_o fall_v out_o within_o a_o age_n though_o it_o be_v great_a when_o it_o do_v fall_v than_o it_o be_v to_o expose_v ourselves_o to_o continual_a dropping_n i_o mean_v to_o those_o daily_a inconvenience_n which_o we_o late_o show_v to_o be_v incident_a to_o the_o classic_a government_n a._n s._n 1._o i_o accept_v of_o your_o supposition_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v no_o sufficient_a or_o satisfactory_a remedy_n etc._n etc._n as_o it_o appear_v clear_o by_o my_o reason_n 2._o to_o your_o maxim_n of_o law_n i_o grant_v you_o willing_o that_o you_o have_v no_o remedy_n against_o mischief_n but_o your_o church_n must_v necessary_o suffer_v they_o and_o be_v expose_v to_o they_o praise_v be_v god_n that_o presbyterian_o serve_v themselves_o with_o no_o mischievous_a but_o with_o very_o holy_a remedy_n 3._o i_o deny_v that_o it_o be_v better_a to_o want_v a_o remedy_n against_o such_o a_o mischief_n viz._n if_o a_o church_n apostatise_v become_v heretical_a etc._n etc._n then_o to_o accept_v
of_o the_o presbyterian_a remedy_n against_o such_o mischief_n or_o of_o the_o mischief_n itself_o for_o we_o must_v never_o in_o any_o case_n accept_v of_o malum_fw-la culpae_fw-la such_o as_o be_v the_o acceptation_n of_o apostasy_n or_o heresy_n in_o a_o whole_a church_n 4._o neither_o be_v there_o any_o nor_o have_v you_o yet_o show_v any_o inconveniency_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n but_o we_o have_v show_v many_o as_o real_a in_o the_o independent_a way_n as_o those_o be_v imaginary_a that_o you_o attribute_v to_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n 5._o all_o the_o inconveniency_n that_o this_o man_n pretend_v to_o be_v in_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n be_v dependency_n of_o particular_a congregation_n upon_o superior_a assembly_n viz._n class_n synod_n etc._n etc._n or_o subordination_n among_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n for_o this_o sect_n must_v be_v altogether_o independent_a and_o every_o one_o in_o their_o church_n supreme_a ecclesiastical_a judge_n and_o their_o church_n supreme_a ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n be_v they_o never_o so_o heretical_a or_o profane_a but_o this_o inconveniency_n may_v be_v press_v home_o again_o 1._o for_o there_o be_v subordination_n among_o their_o particular_a congregation_n and_o their_o synod_n only_o they_o hate_v the_o authority_n of_o synod_n 2._o there_o be_v a_o subordination_n of_o authority_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n 3._o so_o be_v there_o in_o civil_a government_n and_o whatsoever_o inconveniency_n they_o press_v against_o we_o it_o will_v hold_v in_o all_o the_o rest_n as_o we_o shall_v see_v hereafter_o god_n will_v 4._o if_o such_o a_o dependency_n or_o subordination_n be_v any_o inconveniency_n than_o god_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o it_o as_o we_o have_v heretofore_o full_o demonstrate_v it_o m._n s._n delinquency_n of_o whole_a church_n be_v not_o a_o every_o day_n case_n no_o more_o in_o the_o way_n of_o congregationall_a then_o of_o presbyterial_a government_n a._n s._n 1._o it_o may_v be_v as_o ordinary_a a_o case_n in_o the_o church_n as_o that_o of_o inferior_a judicatories_n in_o the_o state_n 2._o and_o it_o fall_v out_o among_o the_o arminian_o and_o we_o 3._o so_o do_v it_o among_o your_o church_n in_o holland_n 4._o so_o do_v it_o betwixt_o you_o and_o we_o since_o you_o be_v become_v sectary_n 5._o so_o do_v it_o among_o all_o church_n that_o become_v heretical_a or_o schismatical_a and_o the_o orthodox_n church_n and_o the_o apostle_n tell_v we_o that_o there_o must_v be_v heresy_n 1_o cor._n 11.19_o so_o it_o be_v not_o so_o extraordinary_a a_o case_n as_o you_o m._n s._n make_v it_o and_o therefore_o there_o must_v be_v a_o ecclesiastical_a ordinance_n for_o it_o as_o well_o in_o the_o church_n as_o in_o the_o state_n 1._o unless_o you_o say_v that_o god_n be_v more_o provident_a for_o the_o state_n then_o for_o the_o church_n or_o more_o negligent_a in_o his_o care_n of_o the_o church_n then_o of_o the_o state_n 2._o there_o be_v a_o remedy_n for_o such_o case_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n as_o i_o show_v you_o in_o my_o annotation_n wherefore_o not_o also_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n 3._o howbeit_o it_o be_v not_o a_o every_o day_n case_n yet_o the_o independent_o have_v a_o remedy_n for_o it_o viz._n the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n whereof_o i_o may_v say_v as_o much_o as_o he_o say_v of_o excommunication_n for_o the_o independent_a church_n can_v not_o pronounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n unless_o they_o have_v or_o pretend_v to_o have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n to_o do_v it_o for_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n 4._o it_o be_v or_o may_v be_v more_o ordinary_a among_o the_o independent_a church_n then_o among_o we_o 1._o because_o of_o their_o independency_n and_o want_v of_o superior_a ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o keep_v they_o in_o order_n 2._o because_o they_o tie_v the_o member_n of_o their_o church_n never_o to_o quit_v they_o without_o the_o church_n consent_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n which_o may_v breed_v quarrel_n betwixt_o two_o church_n if_o a_o member_n of_o the_o one_o without_o her_o consent_n join_v himself_o to_o the_o other_o 3._o and_o this_o may_v be_v confirm_v by_o the_o example_n of_o those_o most_o bitter_a quarrel_n betwixt_o two_o of_o your_o church_n and_o their_o pastor_n in_o holland_n as_o it_o be_v relate_v by_o master_n edward_n in_o his_o antapologia_fw-la but_o according_a to_o ordinary_a providence_n no_o such_o thing_n can_v fall_v out_o among_o our_o church_n and_o if_o it_o shall_v fall_v out_o we_o have_v a_o present_a remedy_n viz._n a_o class_n which_o may_v be_v gather_v within_o the_o space_n of_o four_o or_o five_o day_n if_o that_o do_v not_o the_o business_n we_o may_v gather_v a_o synod_n or_o a_o superior_a power_n which_o can_v moral_o be_v contemn_v among_o we_o by_o any_o inferior_a power_n as_o the_o equal_a power_n of_o independent_a church_n may_v by_o their_o equal_a if_o it_o fall_v out_o extraordinary_o among_o we_o we_o have_v a_o ordinary_a remedy_n for_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o howbeit_o it_o be_v extraordinary_a and_o very_o rare_a yet_o shall_v there_o be_v a_o remedy_n provide_v for_o it_o so_o soon_o as_o once_o it_o fall_v out_o for_o it_o be_v a_o case_n that_o bring_v a_o very_a great_a mischief_n with_o it_o viz._n the_o revoult_n of_o a_o church_n or_o many_o church_n that_o be_v a_o inconvenience_n yea_o a_o mischief_n a_o thousand_o time_n worse_o howbeit_o it_o shall_v fall_v out_o but_o once_o in_o a_o age_n than_o all_o the_o dropping_n of_o master_n goodwin_n or_o all_o the_o inconvenience_n that_o can_v be_v allege_v against_o a_o constant_a remedy_n be_v they_o as_o real_a as_o they_o be_v fictitious_a and_o imaginary_a three_o m._n s._n answer_v my_o first_o argument_n they_o that_o implead_v the_o congregationall_a way_n for_o be_v defective_a suppose_v that_o god_n have_v put_v a_o sufficiency_n of_o power_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o man_n to_o remedy_v all_o possible_a defect_n error_n and_o miscarriage_n of_o man_n whatsoever_o but_o that_o be_v untrue_a ergo._n a._n s._n i_o answer_v they_o suppose_v not_o that_o god_n have_v put_v into_o their_o hand_n a_o sufficiency_n of_o power_n to_o remedy_v all_o defect_n and_o miscarriage_n whatsoever_o or_o all_o possible_a absolute_o but_o ex_fw-la suppositione_n finis_fw-la obtinendi_fw-la i._n e._n that_o may_v conduce_v to_o obtain_v the_o end_n that_o god_n have_v command_v we_o to_o intend_v and_o to_o tend_v unto_o for_o since_o his_o will_n be_v that_o spiritual_a disease_n be_v cure_v it_o must_v consequent_o be_v to_o give_v the_o remedy_n necessary_a or_o sufficient_a to_o obtain_v such_o a_o end_n or_o cure_v 2._o i_o suppose_v not_o that_o god_n have_v give_v we_o all_o mean_n sufficient_a physicè_fw-la but_o moraliter_fw-la i._n e._n that_o be_v moral_o sufficient_a and_o whereby_o moral_o we_o may_v be_v convict_v of_o sin_n if_o we_o use_v they_o not_o as_o cure_v of_o our_o ill_n if_o we_o use_v they_o 3._o i_o suppose_v that_o they_o must_v be_v sufficient_a according_a to_o god_n ordinary_a providence_n whereby_o he_o govern_v ordinary_o his_o church_n and_o not_o absolute_o 4._o as_o sufficient_a as_o in_o the_o civil_a state_n or_o as_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n at_o least_o since_o the_o government_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n be_v as_o perfect_v as_o in_o the_o old_a and_o not_o simple_o or_o absolute_o and_o so_o the_o assumption_n be_v false_a m._n s._n prove_v that_o this_o inconveniency_n press_v as_o well_o the_o presbyterian_o as_o the_o independent_o if_o your_o supreme_a session_n of_o presbytery_n shall_v miscarry_v say_v he_o and_o give_v we_o hay_n stubble_n and_o wood_n instead_o of_o silver_n and_o gold_n what_o remedy_n a._n s._n this_o be_v a_o very_a extraordinary_a case_n yea_o the_o most_o extraordinary_a that_o can_v be_v imagine_v viz._n that_o all_o the_o church_n both_o in_o superior_a and_o inferior_a judicatories_n shall_v so_o miscarry_v and_o yet_o if_o a_o man_n have_v use_v all_o possible_a mean_n and_o this_o miscarry_v also_o which_o be_v more_o than_o any_o ordinary_a case_n we_o may_v say_v 1._o that_o we_o have_v have_v all_o mean_n that_o be_v moral_o possible_a and_o that_o no_o more_o can_v moral_o be_v desire_v 2._o we_o have_v have_v all_o the_o mean_n and_o if_o we_o serve_v ourselves_o of_o they_o all_o till_o we_o come_v to_o this_o extraordinary_a case_n we_o be_v excusable_a 3._o we_o have_v have_v all_o the_o mean_n possible_a according_a to_o god_n ordinary_a providence_n 4._o all_o mean_n that_o they_o have_v in_o the_o old_a testament_n or_o that_o they_o have_v in_o the_o state_n 5._o i_o answer_v that_o this_o supposition_n may_v as_o well_o be_v propound_v against_o god_n providence_n in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o state_n and_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n as_o against_o that_o
m._n s._n in_o his_o second_o answ_n deni_v the_o antecedent_n of_o my_o argument_n or_o doubt_v of_o it_o and_o ask_v by_o what_o authority_n i_o undertake_v to_o secure_v they_o a._n s._n 1._o it_o be_v a_o untruth_n that_o i_o undertake_v to_o secure_v they_o i_o undertake_v nothing_o but_o tell_v a_o truth_n 2._o and_o if_o i_o lie_v i_o pray_v m._n s._n to_o show_v i_o where_o ever_o the_o parliament_n or_o assembly_n have_v press_v they_o to_o be_v actor_n against_o their_o conscience_n 3._o and_o yet_o however_o i_o have_v no_o authority_n to_o secure_v they_o yet_o have_v i_o reason_v sufficient_a enough_o to_o prove_v it_o for_o if_o their_o conscience_n be_v weak_a or_o tender_a the_o parliament_n declare_v and_o have_v declare_v their_o care_n and_o resolution_n not_o to_o suffer_v weak_a or_o tender_a conscience_n to_o be_v wrong_v or_o press_v to_o be_v actor_n against_o the_o dictate_v thereof_o and_o if_o you_o can_v believe_v or_o trust_v they_o how_o can_v they_o or_o shall_v they_o trust_v you_o 4._o because_o it_o be_v a_o ordinary_a maxim_n among_o presbyterian_o not_o to_o persecute_v man_n for_o their_o conscience_n nor_o to_o accuse_v they_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n unless_o they_o be_v turbulent_a and_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n or_o state_n as_o for_o your_o jeer_n and_o injurious_a speech_n here_o against_o presbyterian_o we_o pardon_v mr._n goodwin_n temperament_n for_o it_o be_v not_o reason_n nor_o the_o man_n but_o the_o humour_n of_o the_o man_n that_o speak_v m._n s._n p._n 93._o bring_v his_o 3._o answer_v to_o the_o antecedent_n that_o this_o promise_n be_v break_v by_o a._n s._n seven_o time_n in_o his_o discourse_n and_o by_o sundry_a other_o of_o his_o party_n a._n s._n 1._o the_o antecedent_n of_o my_o argument_n contain_v no_o promise_n but_o a_o simple_a enunciation_n and_o therefore_o i_o can_v not_o break_v any_o promise_n therein_o contain_v for_o non_fw-la entis_fw-la nulla_fw-la sunt_fw-la accidentia_fw-la and_o what_o never_o be_v can_v never_o be_v break_v 2._o put_v the_o case_n it_o be_v a_o promise_v make_v by_o i_o how_o or_o wherein_o have_v i_o ever_o or_o can_v i_o press_v any_o of_o you_o to_o be_v actor_n against_o your_o conscience_n 3._o as_o much_o may_v i_o say_v of_o other_o 4._o but_o to_o say_v it_o be_v against_o your_o conscience_n be_v a_o old_a shift_n a_o hundred_o time_n make_v use_v of_o and_o as_o oft_o answer_v 5._o we_o have_v never_o hear_v of_o any_o that_o threaten_v you_o and_o therefore_o we_o can_v answer_v this_o accusation_n we_o know_v of_o sundry_a extraordinary_a favour_n put_v upon_o you_o by_o this_o parliament_n but_o nothing_o of_o so_o many_o threaten_n of_o misery_n against_o you_o unless_o you_o account_v it_o your_o misery_n to_o receive_v good_a fat_a benefice_n and_o to_o be_v well_o pay_v for_o many_o lecture_n up_o and_o down_o by_o very_a many_o who_o it_o be_v well_o know_v you_o scarce_o own_o for_o member_n of_o 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so_o offensive_a say_v he_o to_o your_o zeal_n over_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n why_o do_v you_o not_o rather_o mediate_v a_o toleration_n for_o they_o then_o oppose_v it_o a.s._n 1_o my_o credit_n be_v but_o small_a as_o you_o confess_v yourself_o 2._o howbeit_o be_v it_o as_o great_a as_o it_o be_v small_a yet_o hope_v i_o i_o shall_v never_o so_o far_o abuse_v it_o as_o to_o turn_v a_o mediator_n for_o the_o set_n up_o of_o sect_n 3._o to_o your_o quaere_fw-la i_o answer_v it_o shall_v be_v wicked_o do_v to_o mediate_v for_o the_o set_n up_o of_o sect_n because_o to_o mediate_v for_o it_o be_v to_o mediate_v for_o the_o overthrow_n of_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n m._n s._n if_o you_o shall_v suffer_v they_o to_o work_v with_o you_o they_o will_v be_v so_o much_o the_o more_o free_a to_o eat_v and_o drink_v with_o you_o a.s._n we_o be_v not_o so_o careful_a for_o your_o eat_n and_o drink_v for_o you_o may_v eat_v and_o drink_v with_o epicure_n &_o pagan_n as_o well_o as_o 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will_v have_v some_o force_n otherways_o it_o have_v none_o at_o all_o m._n s._n 3._o reason_n if_o they_o do_v not_o think_v their_o presbyterial_a church_n more_o holy_a than_o the_o congregationall_a they_o be_v far_o more_o guilty_a of_o schism_n than_o their_o brethren_n i._n e._n then_o independent_o for_o than_o they_o be_v at_o liberty_n in_o point_n of_o conscience_n to_o come_v over_o and_o join_v with_o they_o whereas_o the_o other_o be_v in_o band_n and_o fetter_n of_o conscience_n and_o can_v pass_v unto_o they_o their_o brethren_n will_v come_v to_o they_o but_o can_v they_o can_v come_v over_o unto_o these_o but_o will_v not_o it_o be_v the_o will_n and_o not_o the_o act_n that_o make_v schism_n and_o separation_n a._n s._n 1._o but_o if_o they_o think_v not_o their_o presbyterial_a church_n more_o holy_a all_o your_o argument_n be_v ridiculous_a 2._o and_o i_o must_v confess_v that_o m._n s._n with_o his_o faction_n be_v very_o slight_a who_o can_v make_v very_o few_o 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give_v power_n to_o ignorant_a fellow_n to_o preach_v and_o make_v minister_n shall_v we_o grant_v unto_o woman_n the_o shingle_n or_o jingle_v of_o the_o key_n of_o the_o church_n to_o serve_v myself_o with_o the_o trim_a and_o fine_a term_n of_o independent_a divinity_n 6._o it_o be_v a_o silly_a affect_a distinction_n of_o m._n s._n to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v the_o will_n and_o not_o the_o act_n that_o make_v a_o schism_n it_o be_v both_o for_o schism_n be_v a_o act_n of_o the_o will_n or_o a_o voluntary_a act_n it_o must_v be_v actus_fw-la voluntatis_fw-la elicitus_fw-la aut_fw-la imperatus_fw-la m.s._n 4._o answer_v that_o he_o see_v not_o wherein_o the_o apologist_n symbolize_v with_o convent_v etc._n etc._n a._n s._n i_o have_v show_v it_o 1._o in_o their_o separation_n from_o other_o under_o pretext_n of_o great_a holiness_n than_o other_o man_n have_v 2._o and_o because_o every_o order_n be_v independent_a one_o of_o another_o just_a as_o your_o congregationall_a church_n the_o member_n whereof_o have_v no_o more_o communion_n with_o church_n among_o we_o or_o among_o themselves_o than_o the_o monk_n of_o one_o convent_n with_o those_o of_o another_o convent_n m._n s._n 5._o you_o couple_v yourself_o with_o these_o popish_a convent_v imply_v that_o your_o presbyterian_o have_v their_o sovereign_a judicatory_a as_o they_o a._n s._n we_o have_v no_o supreme_a judicatory_a but_o that_o of_o the_o live_a god_n if_o we_o have_v superior_a and_o inferior_a judicatories_n and_o the_o papist_n also_o neither_o we_o nor_o they_o precise_o be_v to_o be_v blame_v in_o that_o but_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o have_v the_o pope_n one_o man_n for_o supreme_a judge_n and_o head_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v proper_a to_o christ_n in_o that_o they_o prove_v that_o he_o be_v the_o antichrist_n and_o as_o it_o be_v great_a pride_n in_o they_o to_o make_v he_o with_o his_o consistory_n supreme_a judge_n over_o the_o universal_a church_n so_o be_v it_o a_o piece_n of_o extraordinary_a pride_n and_o self-wit_n in_o your_o church_n that_o you_o constitute_v sometime_o seven_o or_o eight_o simple_a fellow_n how_o heretical_a soever_o be_v their_o doctrine_n and_o how_o abominable_a soever_o their_o life_n supreme_a judge_n god_n immediate_a lieutenant_n and_o independent_a of_o all_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n how_o orthodox_n soever_o be_v their_o opinion_n and_o how_o pious_a and_o holy_a soever_o be_v their_o practice_n but_o against_o such_o a_o subordination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a judicatories_n as_o we_o have_v according_a to_o god_n word_n no_o man_n can_v take_v just_a exception_n m._n s._n say_v that_o he_o have_v answer_v my_o twelve_o reason_n and_o i_o have_v show_v how_o absurd_o he_o have_v answer_v a._n s._n 13._o argument_n m._n s._n with_o his_o logico_fw-la divinity_n by_o a_o doctoral_a privilege_n under_o pretext_n to_o reform_v my_o argument_n deform_v and_o disfigure_v it_o altogether_o by_o his_o addition_n and_o confusion_n in_o make_v it_o hypotheticall_a whereas_o it_o be_v mere_o categoricall_a if_o he_o have_v desire_v to_o put_v it_o in_o form_n he_o need_v not_o but_o to_o have_v add_v or_o express_v the_o proposition_n which_o be_v only_o suppress_v in_o this_o manner_n they_o who_o have_v but_o one_o god_n one_o christ_n one_o lord_n and_o one_o spirit_n who_o be_v one_o body_n who_o have_v one_o faith_n and_o one_o baptism_n whereby_o they_o enter_v into_o the_o church_n shall_v have_v one_o communion_n whereby_o to_o be_v spiritual_o feed_v and_o one_o discipline_n to_o be_v rule_v by_o but_o we_o all_o i._n e._n presbyterian_o as_o you_o call_v we_o and_o independent_o we_o have_v but_o one_o god_n one_o christ_n one_o lord_n and_o one_o spirit_n etc._n etc._n ergo_fw-la we_o all_o i._n e._n presbyterian_o and_o independent_o shall_v have_v but_o one_o spiritual_a communion_n whereby_o to_o be_v spiritual_o feed_v and_o one_o discipline_n to_o be_v rule_v by_o and_o from_o this_o he_o infer_v very_o well_o ergo_fw-la the_o independent_o be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v viz._n in_o their_o schism_n separation_n or_o non-communion_n m._n s._n grant_v all_o the_o argument_n and_o afterward_o distinguish_v the_o conclusion_n which_o be_v a_o odd_a manner_n of_o answer_v of_o argument_n and_o proper_a to_o his_o sect_n but_o we_o must_v take_v of_o ill_a paymaster_n what_o we_o may_v he_o say_v then_o 1._o my_o conclusion_n do_v not_o follow_v from_o my_o premise_n a._n s._n but_o the_o argument_n be_v in_o form_n if_o it_o follow_v not_o show_v i_o what_o fault_n there_o be_v in_o the_o form_n of_o it_o m._n s._n 2._o jeer_v the_o term_n of_o my_o argument_n in_o call_v they_o one_o one_o and_o one_o and_o my_o multiply_a unity_n and_o so_o jeer_v the_o holy_a ghost_n himself_o from_o who_o i_o have_v borrow_v they_o eph._n 4._o rom._n 12._o 1_o cor._n 12._o and_o 8._o 1_o tim._n 2.5_o i_o may_v have_v add_v more_o unity_n as_o that_o we_o shall_v with_o one_o mouth_n glorify_v god_n rom._n 5.6_o we_o be_v one_o bread_n 1_o cor._n 10.17_o we_o drink_v in_o one_o spirit_n vers_n 13._o we_o be_v all_o one_o in_o christ_n gal._n 3.28_o one_o lawgiver_n and_o judge_n jam._n 4.12_o christ_n pray_v that_o we_o may_v be_v all_o one_o anomgst_a ourselves_o and_o one_o in_o the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n john_n 17.22_o 23._o m._n s._n his_o first_o solution_n than_o be_v that_o we_o ought_v all_o to_o have_v one_o communion_n and_o discipline_n but_o not_o that_o that_o be_v of_o classic_a inspiration_n no_o more_o than_o that_o of_o papal_a or_o episcopal_a recommendation_n a._n s._n 1._o at_o least_o of_o this_o viz._n we_o shall_v have_v one_o communion_n and_o discipline_n it_o follow_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v no_o schism_n or_o toleration_n grant_v that_o may_v make_v a_o schism_n in_o the_o body_n and_o dissolve_v our_o
communion_n 2._o if_o you_o can_v show_v any_o material_a difference_n in_o doctrine_n and_o other_o thing_n yea_o you_o confess_v yourselves_o that_o it_o be_v not_o great_a you_o can_v separate_v yourselves_o from_o we_o in_o sacramental_a communion_n and_o discipline_n 3._o neither_o hitherto_o have_v you_o show_v any_o practice_n in_o sacramental_a communion_n wherein_o you_o differ_v from_o we_o for_o we_o have_v no_o idolatry_n among_o we_o and_o man_n open_o vicious_a be_v not_o admit_v to_o the_o lord_n table_n among_o we_o neither_o can_v any_o particular_a man_n abstain_v from_o sacramental_a communion_n in_o a_o church_n upon_o pretext_n that_o this_o or_o that_o man_n be_v vicious_a for_o it_o belong_v not_o to_o he_o but_o to_o the_o ruler_n of_o the_o church_n to_o judge_v of_o particular_a man_n life_n whether_o they_o be_v in_o a_o state_n to_o communicate_v or_o not_o no_o more_o appertain_v it_o to_o one_o particular_a church_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o member_n of_o another_o particular_a church_n wherefore_o that_o not_o be_v their_o act_n it_o can_v be_v impute_v to_o they_o and_o consequent_o they_o have_v no_o reason_n in_o such_o a_o case_n to_o be_v so_o scrupulous_a m._n s._n his_o second_o answer_n be_v howbeit_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o one_o communion_n and_o discipline_n yet_o will_v they_o be_v lead_v to_o it_o by_o light_n and_o not_o by_o fear_n a._n s._n 1._o there_o be_v light_n enough_o show_v you_o if_o you_o will_v open_a your_o eye_n to_o see_v it_o and_o we_o desire_v you_o not_o to_o join_v in_o this_o unity_n out_o of_o any_o fear_n of_o man_n but_o of_o god_n 2._o howbeit_o you_o can_v see_v the_o light_n yet_o no_o approbation_n consent_n or_o positive_a permission_n or_o toleration_n shall_v be_v grant_v you_o to_o live_v in_o darkness_n much_o less_o to_o erect_v school_n and_o synagogue_n of_o darkness_n 3._o the_o parliament_n and_o all_o good_a man_n i_o be_o confident_a will_v tolerate_v you_o in_o your_o darkness_n till_o jesus_n christ_n enlighten_v you_o if_o you_o can_v be_v content_a to_o live_v in_o quality_n of_o private_a man_n and_o not_o erect_v church_n and_o school_n to_o blind_v other_o neither_o can_v they_o grant_v you_o any_o thing_n more_o for_o howsoever_o they_o can_v compel_v your_o conscience_n yet_o must_v they_o hinder_v you_o to_o undo_v other_o man_n conscience_n in_o sow_v of_o your_o tare_n and_o wild_a oat_n m._n s._n 3._o answer_n that_o duty_n which_o lie_v upon_o all_o christian_n to_o have_v but_o one_o communion_n and_o discipline_n among_o they_o be_v no_o dispensation_n unto_o any_o party_n or_o number_n of_o they_o to_o smite_v their_o brethren_n with_o the_o fist_n of_o uncharitableness_n or_o to_o dismount_v they_o from_o their_o ministerial_a stand_n in_o the_o church_n because_o they_o will_v not_o or_o rather_o can_v knit_v and_o join_v in_o the_o same_o communion_n and_o discipline_n with_o they_o a._n s._n 1._o you_o be_v very_o ingrate_a unthankful_a unto_o the_o parliament_n and_o your_o brethren_n of_o the_o assembly_n you_o have_v experiment_v no_o uncharitableness_n from_o any_o of_o they_o hitherto_o they_o have_v deal_v with_o you_o in_o all_o meekness_n and_o brotherly_a affection_n 2._o none_o of_o you_o have_v be_v put_v out_o of_o your_o ministry_n for_o your_o opinion_n howbeit_o many_o of_o you_o have_v merit_v it_o for_o your_o insolency_n and_o malepertnesse_n in_o erect_v of_o new_a church_n and_o sect_n against_o your_o own_o tenet_n for_o you_o maintain_v that_o a_o church_n can_v be_v erect_v without_o the_o magistrate_n consent_v and_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o association_n of_o neighbour_n church_n which_o you_o have_v not_o have_v in_o your_o church_n here_o in_o old_a england_n 3._o but_o wherefore_o may_v not_o sectary_n be_v dismount_v who_o mount_v so_o high_a at_o their_o own_o hand_n 4._o if_o you_o will_v not_o join_v with_o the_o rest_n the_o church_n of_o this_o kingdom_n and_o submit_v to_o the_o parliament_n and_o the_o church_n of_o god_n here_o but_o be_v eus_n per_fw-la se_fw-la ens_fw-la independens_fw-la and_o have_v particular_a privilege_n beyond_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o subject_n you_o may_v be_v go_v and_o stay_v there_o from_o whence_o you_o come_v you_o may_v go_v to_o new-england_n and_o mount_v as_o high_a as_o please_v you_o there_o only_o trouble_v not_o the_o church_n and_o kingdom_n here_o and_o the_o church_n and_o kingdom_n will_v not_o trouble_v you_o there_o 4._o the_o church_n here_o do_v you_o no_o wrong_n only_o she_o maintain_v that_o your_o tenet_n be_v contrary_a to_o god_n word_n and_o confess_v that_o if_o the_o parliament_n will_v tolerate_v you_o it_o may_v but_o that_o in_o so_o do_v their_o judgement_n be_v since_o they_o be_v command_v to_o give_v it_o that_o it_o be_v flat_o against_o god_n word_n and_o i_o may_v say_v such_o a_o thing_n may_v breed_v ill_a blood_n of_o friend_n make_v enemy_n and_o peradventure_o undo_v the_o state_n and_o who_o know_v if_o it_o shall_v please_v god_n in_o his_o mercy_n to_o end_v this_o war_n but_o it_o may_v make_v a_o sacrifice_n of_o all_o such_o as_o shall_v have_v hand_n in_o it_o all_o christian_n be_v bind_v in_o conscience_n to_o oppose_v such_o licentiousness_n and_o libertinism_n in_o religion_n m._n s._n his_o 4._o answer_n be_v that_o those_o of_o his_o sect_n be_v keep_v under_o hatch_n and_o oppress_a a._n s._n unto_o this_o we_o have_v answer_v and_o in_o this_o they_o do_v as_o child_n that_o weep_v before_o they_o be_v whip_v a._n s._n 14._o if_o visible_a church_n have_v discipline_n or_o government_n different_a in_o their_o species_n than_o the_o church_n must_v be_v different_a in_o their_o species_n also_o but_o the_o consequent_a be_v false_a ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o antecedent_n so_o church_n have_v not_o different_a discipline_n and_o government_n the_o connexion_n in_o my_o argument_n be_v prove_v because_o all_o collective_a body_n that_o be_v govern_v be_v difference_v in_o their_o species_n by_o their_o specifical_a government_n as_o we_o see_v in_o civil_a government_n in_o the_o constitution_n of_o state_n kingdom_n and_o republic_n the_o assumption_n be_v prove_v because_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v but_o one_o church_n in_o its_o species_n m.s._n jeer_n jest_n and_o flout_v this_o argument_n he_o make_v as_o though_o he_o help_v it_o but_o it_o be_v strong_a enough_o without_o his_o help_n the_o matter_n be_v sound_a enough_o and_o the_o syllogism_n in_o form_n m._n s._n his_o first_o answer_n be_v that_o from_o hence_o can_v be_v gather_v that_o the_o apologisme_n be_v not_o tolerable_a a._n s._n this_o be_v not_o the_o conclusion_n that_o i_o have_v to_o prove_v for_o i_o never_o read_v in_o scripture_n or_o else_o where_o of_o any_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n or_o government_n name_v apologisme_n away_o then_o with_o your_o new_a coin_a term_n of_o apologisme_n and_o quinque_fw-la ecclesian_n minister_n etc._n etc._n the_o conclusion_n that_o i_o have_v to_o prove_v be_v this_o presbyterian_o and_o your_o independent_a church_n have_v not_o according_a to_o god_n word_n or_o shall_v not_o have_v different_a discipline_n which_o any_o neophyt_n in_o logic_n can_v easy_o deduce_v by_o the_o power_n of_o syllogism_n for_o it_o be_v know_v in_o logic_n that_o a_o syllogism_n that_o can_v infer_v a_o universal_a conclusion_n may_v infer_v all_o the_o particular_n of_o that_o universal_a conclusion_n as_o when_o i_o conclude_v that_o all_o man_n have_v reasonable_a soul_n i_o conclude_v that_o peter_n paul_n and_o john_n have_v reasonable_a soul_n so_o then_o when_o i_o conclude_v here_o universal_o that_o no_o church_n have_v or_o shall_v have_v different_a discipline_n ergo_fw-la presbyterian_o independent_o and_o other_o church_n shall_v not_o have_v different_a discipline_n or_o government_n i_o conclude_v there_o must_v be_v but_o one_o church_n and_o one_o government_n what_o ever_o it_o be_v if_o the_o lord_n be_v god_n then_o follow_v he_o but_o if_o baal_n then_o follow_v he_o so_o if_o presbyterian_a discipline_n or_o government_n be_v god_n follow_v it_o if_o independent_o discipline_n be_v god_n follow_v it_o and_o no_o other_o let_v not_o the_o child_n be_v divide_v in_o two_o as_o the_o false_a mother_n that_o have_v steal_v the_o child_n will_v have_v have_v it_o but_o let_v it_o live_v as_o the_o true_a mother_n desire_v no_o more_o plurality_n i_o pray_v of_o discipline_n then_o of_o benefice_n let_v no_o man_n bargain_n about_o government_n let_v god_n ordinance_n hold_v what_o ever_o it_o be_v and_o wherever_o independent_a government_n be_v whether_o in_o aries_n taurus_n cancer_n or_o capricorn_n you_o may_v go_v there_o and_o enjoy_v it_o peaceable_o we_o only_o speak_v of_o the_o discipline_n of_o christ_n church_n in_o england_n what_o it_o shall_v be_v m._n s._n it_o follow_v not_o from_o hence_o