are cast upon us and the Church of God The Arguments you here urge are two we shall speak unto them both and in their order 1. And here we shall speak in the first place unto the charge of Schisme that you would fasten upon us reserving unto another place our Answer unto the charge of Perjury where you do it more plainly and expresly though here you might intend to insinuate it But as touching that of Schisme you plainely declare That such Ministers and of this sort you say there are many amongst us though if we should put you to prove this you would never be able to make it out as return not to that canonical Obedience as you call it which they were sworn to as you say lye under the blot of Schisme But in your next Paper you charge us with this more then once and call it a Rent indeed a Schisme in the highest We shall not examine that which you here seem to take for granted sc that all Ministers that were ordained by Bishops did swear Canonicall Obedience to them which we are sure is very untrue concerning many as how far those that did take any such Oathes were bound to obey is not to our purpose now to discuss But as to that blot of Schisme you would bring us and the Ministers of these Nations under who return not to that Obedience they sometimes yielded to their severall Diocesans we must speak the more fully because the Charge is foul 1. But we shall in the first place speak something of the nature of Schisme The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Schisme signifies a Rent or Division So it is used 1 Cor. 12. 25. That there be no 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Schisme in the body In Js. 7. 43. its sayd There was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a schisme or division among the people because of Christ And John 9. 16. Therefore some of the Pharisees said this man is not of God because he keepeth not the Sabbath day Others said how can a man that is a sinner do such Miracles And there was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a division or schism among them So John 10. 19. And so we read Acts 4. 4. That the multitude was divided and part held with the Jews and part with the Apostles This acceptation of the word is general and may comprehend under its Latitude any kind of Dissention And hereupon Divines though restraining it to Dissentions or Divisions about matters of Religion speak of a good Schisme that is justifiable which is the dissolution of a bad Union and that is but a conspiracy against God as was that Union that was amongst the Jews before they heard the Doctrine of Christ of which John 10. 19. By this kind of Schisme afterwards the whole World was rent and of which Christ speaks Matth. 20. 35. For I am come to set a man at variance against his Father c. And hereupon Gerhardus in answer to Bellarmines charge of Schism upon the Protestants saith Denique concedimus nos esse sano sensu schismaticos quia scilicet ab Ecclesia Romana ejus capite Pontifice Romano secessionem fecimus nequaquam vero ab unitate Ecclessiae ejus capite Christo Jesu nos separavimus At beatum schisma per quod Christo verae catholicae Ecclesiae uniti sumus This Schisme is that which is commanded Come out of her my people Revel 18. 4. And of this Schisme Ambrose speaks Siqua est Ecclesia quae fidem respuit deserenda est 1. e. If there be any Church that refuseth the faith it is to be forsaken But as when we speak of Schisme it is usually taken in the worse part so it is the bad and sinfull Shisme that is here spoken of But thus also it is sometimes taken generally for any division in the Church that is unwarrantable and so it comprehends also Heresie And so the words Heresie and Schisme are sometimes used in the same sense 1 Cor. 11. 19. For there must needs be Heresies or Schismes or Sects that those that are approved may be made manifest among them Although strictly Heresie be opposed unto Faith and Schisme unto Charity And this leads us to shew what Schisme is taken strictly and properly which in brief may be thus described Schisme is a dissolution or breach of that union that ought to be amongst Christians consenting together in the same Faith And because this breach of Union doth chiefly appear in denying or refusing Communion with the Church in the use of Gods publick Ordinances therefore that kind of separation is by a kind of singular appropriation truly and rightly called Schisme Thus much for the opening the nature of Schisme Now because you here charge us with it we must needs tell you the charge is great For Schisme truly and properly so called and as it is taken in the worser part is a very hurtfull dangerous and pernicious evil The Apostle warned to take heed of it and condemned it in the Church of Corinth 1 Cor. 1. V. 10. 11 12 13. It is a work of the flesh and therefore the Apostle proves the Corinthians to be carnall because of the divisions that were among them 1 Cor. 3. 3 4. It is a great offence against Christs being a rending of the Unity of his mystical Body It is a wrong unto the Church whose peace is thereby disturbed and to the Members of the Church their edification being thereby hindred And to conclude Schisme opens the door unto Heresie into which it doth oftentimes degenerate and so makes way to separation from Christ And therefore you here charging us to lye under the blot of Schisme untill Episcopacy be againe admitted of and there be a returning to that Obedience that formerly hath been given to the Bishops should have produced some Arguments for the making out your Charge But here you are wholly silent and think it sufficient to insinuate this so high a Charge without giving any reasons to convince us of our guiltinesses As if we must presently without reason judge our selves because you accuse us 2. Yet because some may be ready to take the matter upon trust and except we purge our selves from this Crime by saying something for our selves conclude we are guilty because you say so we shall therefore in the second place offer to the Reader these following considerations that we may thereby clear our selves from this foul aspersion 1. That though Episcopacy be never restored and neither we nor any other Ministers in this Land return to that Canonicall Obedience that hath formerly been yielded yet still both we and they may continue in Communion with the same Church of England that we held Communion with during the continuance of Episcopacy and with which we also do hold communion in all the Ordinances of Gods Worship Word Sacraments and Prayer This in the beginning of this Paper you do not deny for you there speak of us as
end of the World in a succession of a lawfull ordained Ministry And in your next Paper you falling foule upon us and charging us with a rent indeed a Schisme in the highest you add which is not satisfied but with the utter overthrow of the Church from whom they rent Here you lay a great stress upon Episcopacy and such an one as none of our true Protestant Divines that defend the truth of our own and other reformed Churches against the Papists would ever have layd upon it But here two things are hinted which we shall severally examine 1. You intimate that by the taking away of Episcopacy the Church is overthrowne it cannot be continued amongst us from Age to Age to the end of the World except Episcopacy be restored 2. But yet there is a further Implication sc That there cannot be a Succession of a lawfull ordained Ministry which Succession yet you intimate to be necessary to the being of the Church if we have not Bishops againe that may Ordain 1. Unto the first of these we shall answer after we have premised a distinction touching the word Church For either the Church of God amongst us which you here speak of is taken essentially for that part of the Catholick visible Church which in regard of the place of its abode in this Land is called the Church of England as the severall parts of the Sea which yet is but one receive their Denomination from the Shoares they wash Or else you take the word Church for a Ministeriall Church or for the Church represensative as it is taken Matth. 18. 27. This premised we answer If you take the word Church in the former sense your Position is very gross no other then this that for want of Bishops the whole Church of England is at present overthrowne and that there is no way of recovery of it but by the restoring of them and so in the mean season it is no Church with whom we may safely hold Communion which layes a Foundation for separation from it and of Apostasie unto Rome where Bishops may be had We shall therefore to this say no more but onely mind you of what is well observed by Mr. Baxter out of B. Jewell in the defence of the Agreement of the Worcestershire Ministers Page 58. where he hath these words B. Jewell in his defence of the Apology Authorised to be kept in all Churches Part 2. Page 131. Neither doth the Church of England depend on them whom you so often call Apostates as if our Church were no Church without them They are no Apostates Mr. H c. Notwithstanding if there were not one neither of them nor of us left alive yet would not the whole Church of England flee to Lovaine Tertullian saith Nonne Laici sacerdotes sumus Scriptum est regnum quoque sâ—cerdotes Deo patri suo nos fecit differentiam inter ordinem plebem constituit ecclesiae authoritas honos per ordinis concessum sanctificatus a Deo Vbi ecclesiastici ordinis non est concessus offert tingit sacerdos qui est ibi solus Sed ubi tres sunt Ecclesia est licet Laici But if you take the word Church for a Ministeriall or Organized Church we oppose your Position with these following Arguments 1. That which we have already proved sc That a Bishop and a Presbyter are all one in Scripture acceptation will necessarily inferre that the being of a Ministeriall or Organized Church doth not depend on the continuance or restauration of Bishops taking them for such as are superiour to Presbyters either in regard of Order or Jurisdiction For though these be never restored yet Presbyters being continued that yet are Bishops in Scripture sense the Organized and Ministeriall Church of Christ is fufficiently secured against the danger of perishing 2. But by the Tenent you here hold forth you do very uncharitably unchurch the best reformed Churches throughout the World The Protestant Churches of France Scotland the Low countries and Geneva must all be pâ—t out of the number of free Organized and Ministeriall Churches and their Ministers must because they admit not the Bishops that you are for be accounted no lawfull Ministers Yea you here againe very undutifully unchurch your Mother the Church of England if she restore not Episcopacy and herein gratifie the Papists no little that vilifie her and other reformed Churches as no true Churches and â—ry out against their Ministers as no lawfull Ministers But blessed be God both the Church of England and other reformed Churches and their Ministers have had and still have better Advocates and more dutifull Sonnes then you herein approve your selves to be to plead their Cause 3. By this Tenent also it will follow That all the Ordinances that are dispensed in these Churches are null and void Their Baptisme is no Baptisme The Sacrament of the Lords Supper Administred amongst them is no Sacrament and the like must be said of all the Ordinances that are dispensed in our Church by such as were not ordained by Bishops and so it makes them as to outward Church-Priviledges no better then meer Heathens and hereupon it ministers occasion of endless Doubts and Scruples unto the Members of those Churches of questioning the validity of their Baptisme and whether they ought not to be rebaptized which doubts also by your Tenent are occasioned also to all those among your selves that were baptized by such Ministers as were not Ordained by Bishops Thus you see how you lay the Foundation of Anabaptisme which yet you would seem to be zealous Opposers of 4. Add hereunto that hence it will unavoidably follow That you must not hold any Communion with these Churches nor such Congregations in the Church of England where these Ordinances are dispensed by such as were not Ordained by Bishops their Ministers according to your Doctrine being not lawfull Ministers and for the Ordinance dispensed by them null and void And here is a Rent indeed a rent in the highest to use your owne expressions from which our old Episcopall Divines that were sound Protestants would never have excused you no nor Doctor Vsher with whom in some things you profess to close For however he is represented by Doctor Bernard to have held that a Bishop had Superiority in degree above a Presbyter by Apostolicall Institution and had expressed himselfe sharply enough in his Letter to Doctor Bernard Touching the Ordination made by such Presbyters as had severed themselves from Bishops yet a little after speaking of the Churches of the Low-Countries * he sayth For the testifying his Communion with these Churches which he professeth to love and honour as true Members of the Church Universall he should with like affection receive the blessed Sacrament at the hands of the Dutch Ministers if he were in Holland as he should at the hands of the French Ministers if he were in Charenton By which you may perceive however he held those Churches
Surplice c. by any authority in our Government they bring in something Prelaticall to our charge but not when we only press to the utmost against ignorance and scandall which was the least thing that Government was ordinarily known by We take the Parochiall Diocesan as a meere scoffe the very Officer they strive against in our Congregations make it apparent how farre our Government is from a Parochiall Prelacy If they would be understood besides this flourish to meane our inforceing our way upon men of other perswasions we have manifested by what we have said before and by our frequent practice how unjust this charge is 13. The second thing is That we contradict our selves to inveigh against the Donatists and Schismaticks and yet espouse their quarrels And here by the by the great Diana of this Party is brought in viz. mixt Communion A fearfull errour we are guilty of in opposing this c. That this was the great errour of the Donatists the world must believe and yet we Preach against them and this greatly troubles these Gentlemen We have contended against the Donatists of our times that pretend to separate from true Churches as many have done and we understand not that St Augustine ever strove against Donatus or his followers in any other sense But that prophane and scandalous persons should not be debarred the Sacrament sure is a thing men so much for antiquity and the Church of England should never take as Donatisme The separation which we make is no other then what Chrysostome Cyprian and Augustine himselfe will appeare by their writings to have led us in and what our Church of England in the Rubrick of the Common Prayer did enjoyn and should have practised 14. We know not any secular power we ever exercised or desired to do over any which any Parliament or his late Highness hath blunted the edge of If they meane the civill Sanction for our Government we constantly deny that either the Parliament or his late Highness hath done any such thing as by our Papers may appeare 15. And for the hurt they speake of by our secular power or by the Goliah's Sword they jeere to have taken up they might do well to consider that of Rom. 13. 3. Ecclesiasticall as well as civill Rulers are not a terrour to good workes but to evill wilt thou then not be afraid of the power do that which is good and thou shalt have praise of the same For our requiring a Sibboleth for admission it is none other then a blamelesse life and competent knowledge and this we are able to shew it one of the chief of these Subscribers hath consented to under his hand in his own case we hope they will none of them own it that they have not this Shibboleth ready And for our requiring all Men to fall down and worship the Idoll we have set up we might as well call their endeavouring to set up Episcopacy to be the fond attempt of rearing of Dagon to his place again when he fallen and broken before the Arke of God It is a small matter to make us like the Egyptians when a little before as bad as Nebuchadnezzar For the Taskmasters dilemma we urge them with sure it wight have sufficed what was said in our Answer which they have Printed to have cleared out Text from that glosse they put upon it that the matter of excommunication was to be understood in case of scandall and obstinacy only If the first construction would not have born it which that it would and doth we must with men that stand upon nicities endeavour to prove yet they having our express meaning declared vve vvonder how yet to fasten an aspersion upon us they dare in this place take the thing for granted in their own sense We desire to put men in no other straits then God himselfe declares them to be in and yet hath left a sufficient way-out Men that are scandalous sinne if they come to the Sacrament and sinne if they come not in the one for a mission of known duty in the other for an undue and sinfull performance of it men may eate and drinke unworthily and abstaine from eating and drinking unworthily too but they are under a necessity of mending that they may both come and come worthily 16. For the third contradiction they are grieved with it is that men that impropriate the name of Saints c. should not carry more tenderly then we do truly to this we may Answer that they may charge that on us in malice which we cannot make it our business to vindicate our selves from with modesty we know neither when we impropriated the names of Saints or Christians to our selves nor yet wherein in the particular they mention we have walked contrary we presume the thing they charge us with they acquit themselves from we will go no further for appeale then the Papers in hand let the impartiall Reader view what he can find savouring of so much sweetnesse and candor in their first and last Papers and what there is of provocation in ours and by that let the matter be judged wherever the profession of Saintship is where the contrary practice is most apparent We thinke it not strange to be counted legall and bitter for speaking against sinne when the Apostle was counted an enemy for telling the truth It is sadly suspiscious the controversie lies on another principle then yet is in view We know not any thing we are guilty of like censoriousnesse unless it be free speaking upon all occasions against gross wickednesse we would hope those men would not patronize that cause which we profess our selves only against If this be it that makes us so censorious in private and severe in publique we must profess we dare not be Ministers to sooth up men in their sinnes unless they can finde us a Christ that will save them in their sinnes yet we hope that such of our people as have had occasion to be conversant with us even in this businesse of the Sacrament do finde some of that Gospell tendernesse which these men would perswade the world we are so utterly destitute of and will Answer more for us herein then we thinke fit to say for our selves 17. They now conclude their Preface which ushers these Papers into the world and declare how much they were forced against their dispositions to Print we hope they will not say we forced them for they know we knew nothing of it They protest it is sine ullo studio contentionis without any pleasure or delight in contention whenas they were upon tearmes of accommodation with us according to our Narrative and the truth and yet Print the Papers and they professedly hereby fire their Beacons to raise up others to the like opposition or a stronger where there is ability and occasion For the success of their cause we know not what God in his wise judgement may permit it to be the reception of what
power of excommunication Some we know there are that would make the Diocesan Bishops the onely Pastors of the Church and that other Ministers do but officiate by deputation from them and under them We hope you are not of the minde of these For then as the dissent in judgement betwixt you and us would be farre greater than as yet we apprehend it is so hence it would follow that till Prelacy should be restored there must not if you would provide for the safety of the persons and estates of them that should mannage the Government be the dispensing of any Church censures at all For you may easily know that not only by Acts and Ordinances of Parliament before made for the abolishing of Archbishops and Bishops c. and which are confirmed by the late humble Advice assented unto by his Highnesse sect 12. the office and jurisdiction of Diocesan Bishops is taken away But there is yet a further Barre put in against Prelacy in the 11. sect of the aforesaid humble Advice where it is expresly cautioned and we judge it was out of a conscientious mindfulness of what had been in those very termes covenanted against that the liberty that is granted to some be not extended to Popery and Prelacy And therefore if any Diocesan Bishop should exercise his jurisdiction and excommunicate any person within this Land wherein by Authority as you may see afterward there is also an appointment of another Government we leave it to those that are learned in the Law to determine whether such Diocesan Bishops would not run themselves into a praemunire But if you do not restrain lawful Pastors to these onely out doubt yet is Whether you mean not onely such Ministers as were ordained by Diocesan Bishops excluding those out of the number that since their being taken away have been ordained by Presbyters only If this be your sense we shall onely at present minde you of what is published to be the Judgement of Doctor Vsher late Primate of Ireland in a Book lately put forth by Doctor Bernard Preacher to the Honourable Society of Grayes-Inne and whom though a stranger to us and one of a different judgement from us in the point of Episcopacy yet we reverence for his moderation and profession of his desires for peace wishing that such as do consent in substantials for matter of Doctrine would consider of some conjunction in point of Discipline That private interests and circumstantials might 〈◊〉 keep them thus far asunder In which wish as we do cordially joyn our selves so we heartily desire that all godly and moderate spirited men throughout the Land would also close But the book which the said Doctor hath lately published is intituled The Judgement of the late Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of Ireland c. In this Book this Doctor tels us that the late Primate in Answer to a letter of his sent to him as it should seem for that purpose declares his Judgement touching the ordination of the Ministry in the Reformed Churches in France and Holland There he saith that Episcopus Presbyter gradu tantum differunt non ordine And consequently that in places where Bishops cannot be had the ordination by Presbyters standeth valid And in the close of his Answer about this point he saith That for the testifying of his Communion with the Churches of the Low-Countryes of whom he had spoken immediately before and which he there professeth He doth love and bonour as true members of the Vniversal Church notwithstanding the difference that was betwixt him and them about the point of Episcopacy he doth professe That with like affection he should receive the blessed Sacrament at the hands of the Dutch Ministers if he were in Holland as he should do at the hands of the French Ministers if he were in Charenton See pag. 125. and 126. Hence you may perceive that the Judgement of Dr. Vsher was That the Ordination of Presbyters where Bishops cannot be had standeth valid And consequently if you be of his opinion and you must have stronger reason then ever yet we have seen to bear you out there in if you judge otherwise they ought to bee esteemed lawful Pastors to whom you grant the power of Excommunication Bishops being now taken away and may not therefore ordain according to the present Laws of the Land The said Doctor Bernard hath some animadvertisements upon this Leteer in which Doctor Vsher doth deliver his judgement as abovesaid and there shews that he was not in this judgement of his singular He alledgeth Doctor Davenant that pious and learned Bishop of Sarisbury as consenting with him in it in his determinations quaest 42. and produceth the principal of the Schoolmen Gulielmus Parisiensis Gerson Durand c. and declares it to be the General opinion of the Schoolemen Episcopatum ut distinguitur a simplie◠sacerdotio non esse alium ordinem c. see pag. 130. of the aforenamed Book as also pag. 131 132. Where the concurrence of Doctor Davenant with Doctor Vsher in his judgement about this matter is declared more fully He addes also others as in special Doctor Richard Field in his learned Book of the Church lib. 3. cap. 39. and lib. 5. cap. 27. And also that Book intituled A defence of the Ordination of the Ministers of the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas maintained by Archdeacon Mason against the Romanists And further he saith He hath been assured it was not onely the Judgement of Bishop Overal but that he had a principal hand in it He tels us that the fore-mentioned Author produceth many testimonies The Master of the Sentences and most of the Schoolemen Bonaventure Thomas Aquinas Durand Dominicus Soto Richardus Armachanus Tostatus Alphonsus a Castro Gerson Petrus Canisius to have affirmed the same and at last quoteth Medina a principal Bishop of the Council of Trent who affirmed That Jerome Ambrose Augustine Sedulius Primasius Chrysostome Theodoret Theophylact were of the same judgement also But you may see these things your selves in Doctor Bernard pag. 132 133 134. We have been onely at the pains to transcribe them We could alledge many more Testimonies to prove this But we count these sufficient and doe alledge these the rather because brought by one that is of the same Judgement with you as we suppose But having declared how farre you accord with us in Judgement touching the way of informing the ignorant and reforming the wicked persons and schismatical c. you tell us That you are not therein so wavering and unsettled in your apprehensions of the Case as to submit either it or them either wholly or in part to the contrary Judgement and determination of a general Council of the Eastern and Western Churches much lesse to a new termed Provincial Assembly at Preston wherein you professe no little to differ from us That which we submitted wholly to the Judgement of the Provincial Assembly was not whether Catechizing was a way appointed by
of our Presbyterian discipline c. Unto which we say That we have constantly professed against those of the separation That the several Assemblies or Congregations within this Land that make a profession of the true Christian and Apostolique Faith are true Churches of Jesus Christ That the several members of these Congregations are by their birth members as those that were born in the Jewish Church are said to be by the Apostle Jewes by nature Gal. 2. That this their membership was sealed to them in their Baptism that did solemnly admit them as into the universal Church so into the particular wherein they were born We have also constantly maintained against the afore-mentioned Persons That the Ministers of these Churches are true Ministers notwithstanding that exception of theirs against them that they were ordained by Bishops who also themselves were true Ministers in our Judgement though we cannot acknowledge that by divine right they were superiour to their fellow brethren either in regard of order or jurisdiction And that therefore the Word and Sacraments the most essential marks of a true visible Church according to the professed Judgement of our Divines against the Papists on the one hand and those of the separation on the other dispensed by these Vinisters were and are the true Ordinances of Jesus Christ And that hereupon our work was not when the Presbyterian Government was appointed to constitute Churches but to reform them onely And that therefore none within our bounds except they shall renounce Christianity and their Baptisme can be deemed by us to be without in the Apostles sense and so therefore not within the compass and verge of our Presbyterian Government Neither is it their not associating with us in regard of Government that doth exempt them from censure by it if they should be such offenders as by the rules thereof were justly censurable It not being a matter arbitrary for private Persons at their own will and pleasure to exempt themselves from under that Ecclesiastical Government that is settled by Authority And as you know it would not have been allowed of under the former Government 2 And therefore whether you and all others within our bounds be not comprehended within our Government according to the rules laid down in the Ordinance of Parliament above mentioned appointing the form of Church Government to be used in the Church of England and Ireland and therein ordaining as hath been recited before in the first page thereof and to which we referre you Especially considering that all within the bounds of our several Parishes that are no other now then formerly even Papists and Anabaptists and other Sectaries were under the late Prelatical Government we leave it to you to judge Onely if so we wish you to consider that then you are brought under the Government of Presbytery not so much by us as by the Parliament appointing this Government And then we think you who warn us not to contemn civil power might well out of respect to the Authority ordaining it but especially considering the word Presbytery is a known Scripture expression 1 Tim. 4 and interpreted by sundry of the Fathers as we do as hath been declared before have used a more civil expression then to have called it a common fold into which it should seem your complains it that you should be driven Although Presbytery layes restraint on none but such as being scandalous in their lives and so contemning the Laws of God are therefore truly and indeed the lawless Persons that we speak of But whereas as you suppose This is our chief design in this as in other transactions of ours to subject all to our Government We doe refer our selves to our course of life past and hope it will witnesse with us to all that will judge impartially what our designes have been in our other transactions And as touching our design in the Paper published whether it hath been ought but the information of the ignorant and reformation of the scandalous to the Glory of God and their salvation we leave it to be judged by those that will judge of mens intentions by what is expressed in their words and actions We know very well we are charged by some that we affect Dominion to Lord it over the People and to have all sorts of Persons of what rank soever to stoop to us But we do openly professe that the Government of the Church that is committed unto men is not Despotical but Ministerial That it is no Dominion but a Ministery onely And that the Officers that are intrusted with it are themselves to be subject both in regard of their bodies and estates to the Civil power That by the Ordinance of God they are appointed to be under and that in their Government they have nothing to do with the bodies and estates of any Persons but with their Souls onely Although here we desire to enquire of you whether if you be indeed for the settling of any Government at all in the Church as you professe to be you do not think that all should be subject to it We cannot judge you to be so irrational as to be for a Government and that yet subiection to it must be denyed And if the late Government of the Prelacy was not blamed by you because it required subjection to it we wish you to consider whether upon this account you have reason to censure us But further whereas you tell us That we garnish over our Government with the specious title of Christs Government Throne and Scepter We wish you to consider what in your Answer to an objection that you frame out of our Paper your selves doe say You there tell us You pray for the establishment of such Church Government as is consonant to the will of God and universal practice of primitive Churches that Ecclesiastical Discipline may be exercised in the hands of them to whom it was committed by Christ and left by him to be transferred from hand to hand to the end of the World The expressions you here use are as high touching that Government you would have established as any have been that ever we have used of ours For your prayer is That Ecclesiastical Discipline may be exercised in the hands of them to whom it was committed by Christ and left by him to be transferred from hand to hand to the end of the world The Government then that you are for must be with you Christs Government Throne and Scepter And why do you then condemn us if we have used such expressions concerning our Government till you have convinced us that it is not such When yet you take to your selves the liberty to use the like language concerning the Government you pray may be established But where as you say Presbytery is the main thing driven at here and that however she comes ushered in with a Godly pretence of sorrow for the sins and the ignorance of the times and the duty incumbent upon us
Brethren of one and the same Church and Fellowship And we know not what other Church you mean but the Church of England some of you that are the Subscribers of this Paper not being Members of the particular Church at Manchester nor any of you acknowledging or owning our Presbyterian Classicall Church or Association And therefore you here take us to be of the same Church of England with your selves and confess that we are in fellowship with it notwithstanding Episcopacy be taken away and which is that which we our selves do constantly profess 2. That that Episcopacy that was submitted to by the Ministers of this Land of later times was burthensome and grievous It spoyled the Pastors of that power which of right did belong unto them and which they did not onely anciently exercise as Doctor Vsher shews in his Reduction of Episcopacy to the form of Synodicall Government received in the ancient Church Pag. 3 4 5. but which also by the order of the Church of England as the same Author out of the Book of Ordination shews did belong unto them For he there saith By the Order of the Church of England all Presbyters are charged to administer the Doctrine and Sacraments and the Discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commanded and as this Realm hath received and that they might better understand what the Lord hath commanded them the Exhortation of St. Paul to the Elders of the Church of Ephesus is appointed to be read unto them at the time of their Ordination Take heed unto your selves and to all the Flock among whom the Holy-ghost hath made you Overseers to rule the Congregation of God which he hath purchased with his blood All which power the Pastors were deprived of during the prevalency of Episcopacy the Keys of the Kingdome of Heaven being taken out of their hands they having neither power to cast out of the Church the vilest of Offenders that were often kept in against their minds nor any power to restore into the Churches Communion such as had been never so unjustly excommunicated though of the best of their Flock And so that Episcopacy that formerly was submitted unto was a plain and manifest usurpation upon the Pastors Office and Authority was very oppressive and grievous unto the Church and injurious to her Communion and whereupon it will follow that there is no breach of that Union which ought to be maintained in the Church by not admitting of it again but rather the Churches peace the power that of right belongs unto the Pastors and the Priviledges of the Members are all better secured in the absence then in the presence of it 3. That however both godly Conformists as well as Nonconformists did groan under the burthensomness of it yet in licitis honest is they submitted and yielded Obedience to it whilst it continued established by the Laws of the Land And that out of respect to the peace of the Church although they did not thereby take themselves obliged to forbeare the use of any lawfull means for their deliverance from that bondage as opportunity was offered And hereupon they petitioned the Parliament of late for an abolition of it as had been formerly desired in the Reign of Queen Elizabeth and King James as when other Laws have been found to be inconvenient and mischievous it was never accounted any disturbance of the civil peace to remonstrate the grievousness of such Laws to the Parliament that they might be abolished 4. Let it also be further weighed that that Episcopacy to which you would perswade us by this Argument to return is now abolished and taken away by the Authority of Parliament as appears by the Acts and Ordinances for that purpose See them cited in our Animadversions on your next Paper Sect. 4. And therefore both the Bishops as such and that Superiority which they challenged and exercised over the Ministers in this Land are dead in Law and so there can be no guilt of Schisme lying on the Ministers in this Land for not returning to that Canonicall Obedience that is not hereupon any longer due or for not submitting themselves to that power and jurisdiction that is extinct There is the greater strength in this consideration if it be observed 1. That whatever Jurisdiction the Diocesan Bishops did exercise over Presbyters they did obtain onely by the Law of the Land and Canon of the Church 2. That the Parliament did lawfully take away that Jurisdiction from them and had therein the concurrence of a reverend and learned Assembly of Divines The first of these Propositions is clear upon this consideration that the Scripture makes a Bishop and a Presbyter all one This is clear from Titus 1. Ver. 5. compared with the seventh whence it appears that those whom the Apostle had called Elders or Presbyters Ver. 5. he calls Bishops Ver. 7. And indeed otherwise he had reasoned very inconsequently when laying down the qualifications of Elders Ver. 6. he saith Ver. 7. For a Bishop c. For a Bishop must be blameless Whereunto may be added that other known place Act. 20. 17. compared with Ver. 28. For the Apostle saith to those Elders that the Holy-ghost had made them Bishops or Overseers of the Church Besides what Office the Bishops had that the Elders had Both are charged to feed the Flock of Christ Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 12. and which is both by Doctrine and Government The Keys of the Kingdome of Heaven were committed to them Mat. 16. 19. both the Key of Doctrine and the Key of Discipline The former is not denyed and for the other it is proved from 1 Thes 5. 12. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Heb. 13. 7 17 24. where we see they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those that are over them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those that rule well 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those that rule And for power to Ordain we may see its plain from 1 Tim. 4. 14. where Timothy is charged not to neglect the Gift that was in him which was given him by Prophesie with the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery This Text you your selves tell us in your next Paper Sect. 5. is understood by the Greek Fathers as Ignatius Chrysostome Theodoret Theophylact Oecumenius and others and some few of the Latines also Of the company of Presbyters i. e. Bishops who lay hands on the new made Bishops or Priests But from these several Texts thus urged it is very manifest that the Scripture makes a Bishop and a Presbyter both one or one and the same order of Ministry And hereupon it follows that whatever Jurisdiction the Diocesan Bishops exercised over Presbyters they had it not by Divine Right but obtained it onely by the Law of the Land and Canon of the Church And thus the first Proposition is clear We now come to make good the second And that the Parliament did lawfully take away the Jurisdiction and whole Office of Diocesan Bishops
submission to Synods and Councils is any sounder then as we understood you to have meant those words and which we doubt not but he will discern from what hath been said concerning it in the Animadversion going before 5. But by this explication of your selves you have created to us a further scruple for it aâ—peats to us from thence seeing you joyn the word of God and constant practice of the Catholique Church together as that which must make those matters of faith and articles of Religion so plain to you that you thereupon will refuse to submit such matters so made plain and your apprehensions concerning them to a generall Council that except the plainest matters of faith and articles of Religion from Gods word be also made plain to have been the constant practice rather judgment as we think you should have expressed it of the Catholique Church they are not so plain to you as not to submit your apprehensions concerning them to a generall Council and so the word of God alone even in the matters of faith and articles of Religion that are therein most plainly contained shall not be a sufficient foundation to bottom your faith upon except it be also evident what was the constant and universall practice rather judgment of the Church in those points and so your faith even in the plainest articles of Religion must be resolved into the constant practice or rather declared judgment of the universal Church and which makes it a meer humane not a divine faith But touching this as the rule in any cases of matters of Religion we shall have further occasion to speak in our animadversions on the sixth Section of this paper 6. As touching our selves we have declared that we did not submit to Synods and Councils so as to build our faith on their dictates or resolve it into their determinations and in this we would be understood touching all matters of faith whatsoever not only those that are most plainly contained in Gods word but also such as about which there may be some doubt and difficulty although we reverence Synods as an Ordinance of God and in way of means judg it more likely in doubtfull cases that what is Gods mind should be boulted forth to our satisfaction by the learned debates of learned judicious and godly Divines in such Assemblies then by the discussion of one Bishop or some few Ministers But as touching the juridicall power of Synods we profess our selves to be ready to submit to their judgment and did so submit our Paper wholly to the judgment of our Provinciall which was a Synod actually in being and to whom we knowing our selves to be accountable and judging we ought so to be thought it not meet to publish the Paper that was read in our severall Congregations except it had first been approved of by them Now how farre we do in this declaration of our judgements touching our submission to Synods and Councils concur with what here you declare to be yours we leave it to your selves and the Reader to judg of but we are sure there is herein a great distance betwixt your declared judgment and ours though you shall not finde afterwards that we do hardly grant that to a generall Council rightly constituted and regularly called which we either in truth or any shew do grant to our Provinciall The Gentlemens Paper Sect. III. Having done with our Preface you come to the matter and as we said so we finde we much dissent not onely in the third and last concerning the Heresie and Schism of those who Erre so grossely whether in Doctrinals or points of discipline You give us the reason wherefore you did not so expresly mention them their sin and punishment as the grossely ignorant and scandalous Which is because they are very inconsiderable in comparison of the other and in sundry of your Congregations if not in most not any at all that you know of But if you will seriously consider the number of those that have rent themselves from a true constituted Church and of those who have severed themselves from those Bishops unto whom they had sworn Canonical obedience and therefore in the Judgement of that Learned and Rever end Bishop Vsher and others cannot possibly be excused from being Schismaticall we say if you consider this you will finde a considerable number even within the verge of your own Association What we said touching the way of Catechising for Information of the ignorant we are glad to hear you so heartily wish for a more generall practise thereof in your Churches at home at you say it is practised abroad It was enjoyned and practised in the Church of England before your separation And if you by your pretended Reformation have destroyed that practise the fault lies at your own doors You understand us aright in this That we hold it not fitting that Persons grossely ignotant should be admitted so the Sacrament of the Lords Supper But your conclusion thence is not good viz. That we cannot therefore in reason deny that there ought to be an Examination and tryall of all Persons de novo before they be admitted c Especially by your Eldership To whom you say the power of judgement and examination is committed and not to any one Minister before whom all must come for re-examination whatsoever their tryall and examination heretofore hath been Those Persons who have anciently been Catechized and have been a long time Commoners at the Lords Table and witnessed a good confession for parts and piety must these again yeild themselves to the examination of an Eldership before they can be admitted Pardon us if herein we pronounce a dissent from you Concerning the scandalous and wicked in their lives you say we fully come up to you and are glad there is an agreement in judgement betwixt us thus farre viz. That the Churches lawfull Pastors have power to Excommunicate such upon which you say you cannot see how we in reason can finde fault with your proceedings in such a way against such Persons though your ruling Elders which in our judgement aâ—e but meer lay-men do joyn in the Government with you Ther 's another non sequitur a conclusion as bad as the former and the reason of that conclusion as weak as the rest Because High-Commissioners Chancellors and Commissaries in the time of Episcopacy to which Government we submitted that were as much Lay-men as your ruling Elders had so great a share as to suspend Ministers c. and so farre as to decree the sentence of Excommunication against them and others as there was occasion for it For when you can prove that these Chancellors Commissaries c. did not officiate by deputation from and under a lawfull Pastor but in equall right with him and jure divino as your ruling Elders do Then your Comparison of them and your ruling Elders may hold good till then it is weak and frivolous Now whereas you desire to
Apostles in the Synod at Jerusalem and the Fathers of the Nicene Council and others we instanced in to endeavour their conviction in the due use of all good meanes before there was a process to excommunication We remembred also how quick the Prelates were in thundering out their excommunications against such as though godly and religious were in those times accounted by them to be schismatical and we thought it requisite to bear witness against those manner of proceedings But of this you take no notice and we do not much wonder for we see you count all those that severed themselves from the Bishops schismatical and may be if they had power again in their hands you did not much matter though you are willing the scandalous should be admonished before if all these for their great schisme in your esteem were forthwith excommunicated Thirdly As touching publick Catechizing we said we heartily wished it had been more generally practised in our own Church at home as it is practised by the reformed Churches abroad But by our own Church we meant the Church of England as it is a national Church and in which though Catechizing was enjoyned in former times yet it was neither so generally and constantly practised as it should have been else we should not have had so much cause to have complained of the gross ignorance of so many aged persons in our Congregations who were nor trained up under the Presbyterian but Prelatical Government as now we have And here we observe that when you profess you are glad to hear us so heartily wish that Catechizing had been more generally practised it is but that you may take occasion to affix the greater blot upon us for you would have it to be our Churches in whom this neglect is chiefly or only to be found and it is we that are again by you charged with separation that have by our pretended reformation as you are pleased to speak destroyed this practice We wish as heartily in this case as we did in the other that you may be sensible how prone you are to revile and slander and pray to God that it may not be laid to your charge But you might have remembred that as we professed our selves to be for publick Catechizing which blessed be God is practised in our Churches though you would make the world to believe that we had destroyed it so we professed to be for private too that so such as were not like in regard of age or timorousness to be brought to instruction by the publick might yet by the private gain some knowledge In the Paper also that was published in the Congregations there was some order appointed for the better and more convenient practice of it And doubtless by how much we were willing to be at the more pains for the information of the ignorant the greater fault will lie at your doores and be charged upon you if you repent not of it that by your opposition you have not only laboured to obstruct the good courses by us propounded for the help of poor ignorant souls but accused us also that by our pretended reformation we have destroyed Catechizing Here also we take notice that however in your first Paper you had a proviso touching Catechizing that it be publick and that we thereupon gave you some reason though briefly for private Catechizing yet this you wholly pass over in silence and say nothing to it thus you pretend to make a reply to our answer and yet but speak to what of it you please But if you had manifested any dissatisfaction touching private Catechizing we should here have proceeded to have given further reasons for it although this work is so fully done to our hands by Mr. Baxter in his Gildas Salvianus that it would have been needless unto those that have read that Book and whereunto for his further satisfaction we referre the Reader if he desire it Fourthly If we understood you aright in this that you held it not fitting that persons grosly ignorant should be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper the conclusion that we inferred hence stands good against any thing brought by you to invalidate it But here we observe you stretch it beyond its scope and that in two particulars 1. In that you would have it referre to examination before the Eldership which was not that which we spake of we only said there ought to be examination and triall of all persons before they be admitted to the Lords Supper not determining here touching the persons by whom this examination was to be made but only inferring that then there ought to be this examination that so the grosly ignorant might not be admitted as they might be if all promiscucusly were to be admitted without any triall at all and which was the reason that we alleadged in our answer for the inference we made and which still stands good you urging nothing at all to take away the strength of it It is true that the examination and judgement of all such as shall for their ignorance not be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper is to be in the power of the Eldership of every Congregation and not in the power of one Minister only by the rules of our Government But this was not the thing we there spake of we only concluded that there ought to be an examination and hoped that we had gained from your own concession this one further step toward an agreement betwixt you and us that all such persons as should be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper must be examined by some or other not determining by whom there being no way to discover the ignorant but by triall And as touching our practice it is well known that when the Eldership is satiâ—fied touching the knowledge of such as offer themselves to that Sacrament upon the examination of a Minister and one Elder or upon the examination of two Ministers however none is to bâ— debarred for their ignorance but by the juridical act of the Eldership and which is for the better securing of the Church-priveledges to the members then to have left the power to the Minister alone such are not required to be examined before the Eldership but are upon the testimony of the examiners there being nothing to be objected justly against them admitted by the authority of the Eldership 2. There is also another thing wherein you would make our inference to be that which indeed it was not for neither did we speak concerning any examination de novo of such persons as had been formerly admitted our words recited even now and to be seen in our answer do plainly speak concerning an examination before admission to the Lords Supper not concerning an examination de novo Indeed we shall neither be ashamed of nor deny what is our practice which is to take a triall of all the communicants de novo before admission of them to the Lords Supper We
truely qualified with a just power of conferring Orders Now these according to what you have declared in your former Paper are the Bishops without whom you there insinuate the Church of God cannot be continued amongst us in a succession of a lawfully ordained Ministry and so at once cashier out of the numbet of law-full Pastors all such Ministers either of our own or other reformed Churches that are ordained by Presbyters onely and to whom you allow not the power of Ordination as you here also do plainly declare your selves But we have in our answer to that clause quoted out of your former Paper sufficiently as we hope the Reader will judg declared the absurdity of this your opinion And you your selves as all men may see may hereby perceive how vain a thing it is for you and us to labour in any way of accommodation whilst you retain these principles they being destructive to union and your communion in severall of our Churches either in Baptisme or the Lords Supper For how can you have communion in those Ordinances dispensed by such Ministers amongst us as being ordained by Presbyters onely you on this ground will conclude to be no lawfully ordained Ministers And therefore if you be cordiall for union we wish you to revise what you have as touching this matter asserted and weigh what in our former Paper we have opposed unto it But as touching the power of ordaining Presbyters by Presbyters onely you will have it to be our opinion onely and that in this we are singular for you say we and you believe it is none but we presume one Presbyter may confer orders upon another And here indeed 1. If we held that one Presbyter might ordain another Presbyter you had reason to accuse us of singularity but we are professedly against all solitary power in ordination as well as in jurisdiction by whomsoever this power is or hath been exercised 2. But if your meaning be that it is we onely that hold Presbyters alone without any Bishops may ordain Presbyters 1. You might have known that this was and is the judgment of the reformed Churches abroad as well as ours 2. And further you may remember we alleadged out of Dr. Bernard the testimony of severall Episcopall men as well as of Dr. Usher asserting and proving that in places where Bishops cannot be had the ordination of Presbyters standeth valid which speciall restriction we mentioned in our Answer as the Reader will finde and which though added would not have hindred if you had been of the same opinion with them but you might have acknowledged that such as are with us ordained by Presbyters onely are notwithstanding lawfull Pastors Bishops being now taken away by the power of the civil Magistrate and excluded from having any liberty to ordain by those acts where Prelacy is exempted from that indulgence that is granted to some others If also that Catalogue of Divines Schoolmen and Fathers that we cited out of Dr. Bernard who are cited by him also out of others be consulted they will be found to affirm as we said in our Answer though you take no notice of it that Episcopacy non est ordo praecisè distinctus a Sacerdotio simplici Bishop Davenant as he is alleadged by Dr. Bernard for this purpose producing the principall of the Schoolmen Gulielmus Parisiensis Gerson Durand c. for this opinion Whence also it is evident that they are not by us frustraneously cited though it be an easie matter for you to assert the same without any reason or ever answering to what they were alleadged for to affirm We shall not here deny but Dr. Usher saith that the ordination made by such Presbyters as have severed themselves from those Bishops unto whom they had sworn canicall obedience could not possibly by him be excused from being schismaticall But yet he doth not say that the ordination by them is null and void although in his judgment there was thereby a schisme made There may be schismes in the Church yea some particular Churches may be schismaticall and yet for the substance of them continue true Churches of Jesus Christ as if it were to our purpose might be cleared both from Scriptures and also Fathers But as touching the aspersion of schisme that is cast on such Presbyters that have severed themselves from the Bishops we hope it is sufficiently wiped off by what we have already spoken in our answer to your second Paper 7. However it seems that charge was not high enough and therefore in this you proceed further charging us with perjury and obstinacy for you having mentioned that speciall restriction of Dr. Ushers of not invalidating the ordination by Presbyters where Bishops cannot be had add and say but this we must desire you to consider is ex necessitate non ex perjurio pertinacia and however you would smooth up the matter by bidding us examine our selves in this particular and saying you shall not judge any man yet it is plain enough to any discerning Reader who they are that are charged by such expressions But as touching the thing it self we shall now examine the justness of the charge And first we shall begin with that of perjury unto which we shall need to say the less considering that the grounds layd in our Answer to your second Paper proving that such Presbyters as since the Parliaments abolishing Prelacy have severed themselves from the Bishops or cast off Episcopacy are not justly to be charged with schisme do here also take place to acquit such Ministers that did swear Canonicall obedience to the Bishops from the guilt of perjury We shall here onely minde you and the Reader of two things 1. That seeing the superiority which the Bishops chalenged and exercised above Presbyters in this Nation did belong unto them onely by the Law of the Land we having proved in our Answer to your second Paper that a Bishop and Presbyter in Scripture sense are both one and was taken away from them by the Legislative power of this Nation as they might lawfully take it away that power which they exercised not being due to them by Divine right nay being an usurpation upon the Pastors office as hath been also shewd and so their whole Office as Diocesans together with their jurisdiction as sundry also of their Persons are all extinct and as is manifest in particular touching him that was the Bishop of this Dioces we wonder much and we think every Reader will here wonder with us that your great heat for Prelacy should thus farre have transported you as to charge us with perjury for which there is not the least colour Consult Dr. Sanderson de juramenti promissorii obligatione consult all other Casuists and you shall finde that the best and soundest of them do determine with one consent that when the matter of an Oath ceaseth the obligation by vertue of that Oath ceaseth also and therefore Prelacy being taken away by
be it further declared by the Authority aforesaid That every Person and Persons that shall not diligently perform the duties aforesaid according to the true meaning thereof not having reasonable excuse to the cootrary shall be deemed and taken to be offenders against this Law and shall be proceeded against accordingly Can you say now that you have power to censure such as forsake the publique Assemblies by any Ordinance of Parliament or rules as you call them of your Church Government when not only the pious and peaceable minded people but the obstinate also are exempted from the rigor of former Laws and onely taken to be offenders against this Law and no other and shall be proceeded against accordingly Dare you yet proceed to censure notwithstanding this Act If you do you are very bold and may run into a Praemunire Though you say you are not to be blamed for any mistakes that may arise ab ignorantia juris whether simple or effected A strange saying we have heard it said Ignorantia facti excusat but Ignorantia juris non excusat no not a simple ignorance much less an affected one The Animadversions of the Class upon it 1. IF you had weighed what we had answered you could not with any colour have said that we answered not your question you might have observed that we spake of our Assemblies as they were parts of the Church of England and of the same constitution with her and whom though those of the separation do un-church in regard of the mixture or the scandalous persons in them denying our Church in that respect to be true or our assemblies to be the assemblies of Saints yet we justified in our Answer from the examples of the Church of Corinth and the Churches of Galatia to whom the Apostle writes as to Saints and calls Churches notwithstanding such corruptions in them though we did not deny but the scandalous in our Church and assemblies were the spots thereof And seeing we acknowledged such assemblies were true Churches notwithstanding those scandalous persons that were found in them you had no reason to imagin that none else besides our selves were by us accounted Saints none brethren and sisters in Christ but such as stand for our discipline which you cannot mention but you must brand in calling it pretended you might from our answer have gathered that all other assemblies in our Land where the word of God and Sacraments are dispensed were taken into the number of those assemblies we spake of they being parts also of the Church of England as well as our own however they may some of them differ from us in point of discipline We told you in our Answer particularly that in the Church of Corinth there were some that denied the resurrection others made rents and schismes and sundry grosly scandalous and yet it was a true Church And therefore how should we be conceived to have denied such assemblies in our Land that are parts of the Church of England and of the same constitution with her for the substance not to be the assemblies of the Saints if they stand not for our Discipline Yet you would make the world to beleeve we meant no further in that Answer we gave you then not to un-Church or un-Saint our selves or assemblies because of the corruptions of them which yet we must tell you might have been the fewer if you and others who are members of these assemblies had shewed your selves more pliable to good order and discipline and to have been furtherers and not hinderers of their reformation 2. We spake in our Answer of some that had of late rent themselves from our Churches because of the scandalousness of the corrupt members and said that seeing our principles and practises are manifestly known to be utterly against them as against the opinions and practises of the Douatists of old you had no reason to apply that of Augustine unto us when he cried out against them ô impudentem vocem But now you will not have any to have rent themselves from our Church excepting such who having admitted themselves members or professed themselves of our Association have rent themselves from us and who you say are but a few so farre as you have heard But here you do not approve your selves good disputants against those of the separation who being by their birth members of the Church of England whereof our assemblies are but parts and of the same constitution with her as we said before and have rent themselves from it or from our Assemblies that are parts of it are justly chargeable with schisme they having hereby rent themselves from a true Church wherof they were members and whose membership is argued from their being born in gremio Ecclesiae not from their admitting themselves members of it afterward or their professing of themselves to be thereof members We had in our Answer to your first Paper hinted to you this ground of their membership when in Answer to what you had to the like purpose there suggested as you do here we told you that the severall Congregations within this Land that make a profession of the true Christian and Apostolike faith are true Churches of Jesus Christ that the severall members of these Congregations are by their birth members as those that were born in the Jewish Church are said to be by the Apostle Jews by nature Gal. 2. that this their membership was sealed to them in their baptisme that did solemnly admit them as into the universall Church so into the particular wherein they were born But as in this Paper where you should have replied to these propositions if you approved not of them you answered nothing to them though in your first Paper you would have exempted your selves from being subject to our Government because you had not admitted your selves members of some one or other of our Congregations or were any associates of ours as you there expressed your selves so here you come over again with the same unsound principle and yet say nothing to make it out intimating that none are to be accounted to have rent themselves from us but such as have admitted themselves members or professed themselves of our association whereas if being members by their birth of the Church of England they after rend themselves from any of our assemblies or others that are parts and members of it and of the same constitution with it they are guilty of schisme and which you must say or whatever you cry out against it you do not upon any sure principle oppose it 3. But this blot of schisme you would fasten upon us however though it be neither upon your own principles here laid down or any other whereby you can prove us guilty And to make this out you say that we or many of us had sworn Canonical obedience to the Government by Bishops and subscribed the 39 Articles of the Church of England and hereupon because we are not now for