Would God this point were throughly known and well weighed on all partes The neglect or ignorance whereof hath both bred and nursed your separation and driuen the weake and inconsiderate into strange extremities This say we for our selues in no more charity then truth But for you how dare you make this shamelesse Comparison Can your heart suffer your tong to say that there is no more diffrence betwixt Rome and vs then there is betwixt vs and you How many hundred errours how many damnable heresies haue we euinced with you in that so compounded Church shew vs but one mis-opinion in our Church that you can proue within the ken of the foundation Let not zeale make you impudent Your Doctor could say ingenuously sure that in the doctrines which she professeth she is farr better and purer then that Whore mother of Rome and your last Martyr yet better If you mean saith he by a Church as the most doe that publique profession whereby men do professe saluation to be had by the death and righteousnesse of Iesus Christ I am free from denying any Church of Christ to be in this land for I know the Doctrine touching the holy Trinity the natures and Offices of the Lord Iesus free iustification by him both the Sacraments c. published by her Maiesties authority and commanded by her lawes to be the Lords blessed and vndoubted truthes without the knowledge and profession whereof no saluation is to be had Thus he with some honesty though little sense If therfore your will do not stand in your light you may well see why we should thus forsake their Communion and yet not you ours Yet though their corruptions be incomparably more wee haue not dared to separate so farre from them as you haue done from vs for lesse Still wee holde them euen a visible Church but vnsound sicke dying sicke not of a consumption onely but of a leprosie or plague so is the Papacy to the Church diseases not more deadly then infectious If they be not rather in Sardies taking of whom the spirit of God saieth Thou hast a name that thou liuest but thou art dead and yet in the next words bidds them awake and strengthen the things which are ready to die And though our iudgement and practise haue forsaken their erroneous doctrines and seruice yet our charity if you take that former distinction hath not vtterly forsaken and condemned their persons This is not our coolenesse but equality your reprobation of vs for them hath not more zeale then headstrong vncharitablenesse SECTION XXIIII The Separation made by our holy Martyrs BVt how could you without blushing once name Cranmer Latimer and those other holy-Martyres which haue beene so oft obiected to the conuiction of your schisme Those Saints so forsooke the Romish Church as wee haue done died witnesses of Gods truth in that Church from which you are separated Liued Preached gouerned shed their blood in the communion of the Church of England which you disclaime and condemne as no Church of God as merely Antichristian Either of necessity they were no Martyrs yea no Christians or else your separations and censures of vs are wicked Chuse whether you will They were in the same case with vs wee are in the same case with them no difference but in time eyther their blood will be vpon your heads or your owne This Church had then the same constitution the same confusion the same worshippe the same Ministery the same gouernement which you brand with Antichristianisme swayed by the holy hands of these men of God condemne them or allow vs. For their separation They found many main errours of doctrine in the Church of Rome in the Papacy nothing but errours worth dying for shew vs one such in ours and wee will not onely approue your separation but imitate it SECTION XXV What separation England hath made THE Church of England dooth not now wash her hands of Babilonish abhominations but rather shewes they are cleane Would God they were no more foule with your slander then her owne Antichristianisme Here will bee found not pretences but proofes of our forsaking Babylon of your forsaking vs not so much as wel-coloured pretences You beginne to be ingenuous while you confesse a reformation in the Church of England not of some corruptions but many and those many not sleight but maine The gifts of aduersaries are thankelesse As Ierom said of his Ruffinus so may we of you that you wrong vs with praises This is no more praise then your next page giues to Antichrist himselfe Leaue out Many and though your commendations be more vncertaine we shall accept it so your indefinite proposition shall sound to vs as generall That we haue reformed the maine corruptions of the Romish Church None therefore remaine vpon vs but sleight and superficiall blemishes so you haue forsaken a Church of a foule skinne but of a sound heart for want of beauty not of truth But you say many not All that if you can picke a quarrell with one you might reiect all yet shewe vs that one maine and substantiall error which we haue not reformed and you doe not more embrace those truths with vs which we haue receiued then we will condemne that falshood which you haue reiected and imbrace the truth of that Separation which you haue practised The degrees whereby that strumpet of Babylon got on Horse-back you haue learned of vs who haue both learned and taught that as Christ came not abruptly into the world but with many presages and prefigurations The day was long dawning ere this Sunne arose so his aduersary that Antichrist breaks not suddenly vpon the Church but comes with much preparation and long expectance and as his rise so his fall must be graduall and leisurely Why say you then that the whole Church euery where must at once vtterly fall off from that Church where that man of sinne sitteth His fall depends on the fall of others or rather their rising from vnder him If neither of these must be sudden why is your hast But this must not be yet ought as there must be heresies yet there ought not It is one thing what God hath secretly decreede another what must be desired of vs If we could pull that Harlot from her seate and put her to Iezebels death it were happy Haue we not endeuoured it VVhat speake you of the hyest Towers and strongest pillers or tottering remainders of Babylon we shew you all her roofes bare her walles raced her vaults diged vp her monuments defaced her altars sacrificed to desolation Shortly al her buildings demolished not a stone vpon a stone saue in rude heapes to tell that here once was Babylon Your strife goes about to build againe that her tower of confusion God deuides your languages It wil be wel if yet you build not more then we haue reserued SECTION XXVI The maine grounds of separation YOV will now
whether of doctrine or manners and disclaime all fellowship with the vnfruitfull workes of darknesse whither in himselfe or others So S. Paul charges vs to holde that which is good and abstaine from all appearance of euill so Ieremie is charged to separate the pretious doctrine or practise from the vile From sinners not onely practised by God himselfe to omit his eternall and secret Decree whereby the elect are separated from the Reprobate both in his gratious vocation sequestring them from nature and sinne as also in his execution of iudgment whether particular as of the Israelites from the Tabernacles of Corah or Vniuersall and finall of the Sheepe from the Goates But also inioyned from God to men in respect either of our affection or of our yoake and familiar society whereof Saint Paul Be not vnequally yoaked with Infidels Come out from among them and seperate your selues In all this we agree In the latitude of this last onely we differ I finde you call for a double separation A first separation in the gathering of the Church A second in the managing of it The first at our entrance into the Church the second in our continuance the first of the Church from Pagans Worldlings by an initiatory profession The second of leud men from the Church by iust censures You speake confusedly of your own separation one while of both another while of either single For the first either confesse it done by our Baptisme or else you shall be forced to hold we must rebaptise But of this Constituâ—ine separation anone For the second of sinners whether in iudgement or life some are more grosse haynous incorrigible others lesse notorious and more tractable those other must be separated by iust censures not these Which censures if they be neglected the Church is foule and in your Pastors word faultie and therefore calles for our teares not for our flight Now of Churches faulty and corrupted some race the foundation others on the true foundation build Timber hay Stubble FroÌ„ those we must separate from these we may not Peters is eternall Whither shall we goe from thee thou hast the wordes of eternall life where these wordes are found wo be to vs if we be not found Amongst many good separations then yours cannot be separated from euill for that we should so farre separate from the euill that therefore wee should separate from Gods children in the communion of the holy thinges of God that for some after your worst done not fundamentall corruptions wee should separate from that Church in whose wombe we were conceiued and from betwixt whose knees wee fell to God in a word as one of yours once said to separate not only from visible euill but from visible good as all Antichristian who but yours can thinke lesse then absurd and impious Grant we should be cleane separated from the world yet if we be not must you be separated from vs Doe but stay till God haue separated vs from himselfe will the wise husbandman cast away his Corne-heape for the chaffe and dust Shall the Fisher cast away a good draught because his drag-net hath weedes Doth God separate from the faithfull soule because it hath some corruptions her Inmates though not her commaunders Certainely if you could throughly separate the world from you you would neuer thus separate your selues from vs Beginne at home separate all selfe-loue and selfe-will and vncharitablenesse from your heart and you cannot but ioyne with that Church from which you haue separated Your Doctor would perswade vs you separate from nothing but our corruptions you are honester and graunt it from our Church it were happie for you if he lied not who in the next page confutes himselfe shewing that you separate from vs as Christ from the Samaritans namely from the Church not the corruptions only and not as hee did from the Iewes namely from their corruptions not from their Church His memory saues our labour and marres his Discourse SECTION V. The antiquity and examples of separation YEt if not equity it were well you could pleade age This your separation in the nature and causes of it you say is no lesse auncient then the first institution of enmity betwixt the two seedes you might haue gone a little higher and haue said then our first parents running from God in the Garden or their separation from GOD by their sinne But wee take your time and easily beleeue that this your late separation was founded vpon that auncient enmity of the seede of the serpent with the womans That subtile Diuell when he saw the Church breath from the persecutions of Tyrants vexed her no lesse with her owne diuisions seeking that by fraude which by violence he could not effect Hence all the fearefull Schismes of the Church whereof yours is part This enmâ—ty hath not onely beene successiuely contiuued but also too visibly manifested by the actuall but wilfull separation of heretickes and Sectaries from the Chuch in all ages But I mistake you yours is as auncient as the Gospel What that Euangelium aeternum of the Friers whose name they accursedly borrowed from Reuel 14. 6. Or that Euangelium regni of the Familists Or that Euangelium aliud whereof Saint Paul taxeth his Galatians None of all these you say but as that Gospell of Peace of Truth of Glory so auncient and neuer knowne till Bolton Barrow and Browne Could it escape all the holy Prophets Apostles Doctors of the old middle and later world and light onely vpon these your three Patriarchs Perhaps Nouatus or Donatus those Saints with their Schooles had some little glimpse of it but this perfection of knowledge is but late and new So many rich mines haue lien long vnknown and great parts of the world haue been discouered by late Venturers If this course haue come late to your knowledge and obedience not so to others For loe it was practised successiuely in the constitution and collection of all tâ—ue Churches through al times before the law vnder the law after it Wee haue acknowledged many separations but as soone shall you finde the time past in the present as your late separation in the auncient and approued You quote Scriptures though to your praise more dainty indeed then your fellowes Who cannot doe so Who hath not Euen Sathan himselfe cytes the word against him which was the word of his Father Let vs not number but weigh your texts The rather for that I finde these as your Master-proofes set as Challengers in euery of your defences In Gen. 4. 13. Caine a bloody Fratricide is excommunicated In Gen. 6. 1. 2. The sonnes of God married the daughters of men In Gen. 7. 1. 7. Noah is approued as righteous and enters the Arke In 1. Pet. 3. 20 21. The rest in Noahs time were disobedient and perished What of all this Alas what mockage is this of the Reader and
Scriptures Surely you euen ioyne Scriptures as you separate your selues This is right as your Pastor to proue all members of the visible Church elect and pretious stones cytes 1. K. 7. 9. where is speech only of Salomons house in the Forest of Lebanon his Porch for his Throne his Hall his Pallace for Pharachs daughter and when hee comes to describe the office of his imaginary doctor thwacks fourteene Scriptures into the margent whereof not any one hath any iust colour of inference to his purpose and in his discourse of the power of the Church that hee might seeme to honour his margent with shew of textes hath repeated sixe places twise ouer in the space of sixe lines For these of yovrs you might obiect the first to the Cainites not to vs Cain was cast out worthily Doe wee either denie or vtterly forbeare this censure Take heed you follow him not in your voluntary exile to the land of Nod. The second you might obiect to those mungrell Christians that match with Turkes and Pagans There are sonnes of God that is members of the visible Church and daughters of men which are without the bounds meere Infidels it is sinne for those sonnes to yoake themselues with those daughters What is this to vs Noah was righteous the multitude disobedient Who denies it yet Noah separated not from that corrupted Church till the flood separated him from the earth but continued an auncient Preacher of righteousnesse euen to that peruerse and rebellious generation But it sufficeth you that Caine and the Giants were separated from the rest We yeelde it what will follow hence saue onely that notorious malefactors must be cast out and professed Heathen not let into the Chruch VVe hold and wish no lesse your places euince no more These before the law In Leuit. 20. 24. 26. God chose out Israel from other people This was Gods act not theirs a sequestring of his Israelites from the Gentiles not of Israel from it selfe yours is your owne and from men in all maine points of your owne profession But therefore Israel must be holy If any man denie holinesse to be required of euery Christian let him feele your Maranatha In Nehem. 9. 2. The Israelites separated themselues from the strangers which were Infidels whether in their marriage or deuotion Neither Gods seruice nor an Israelites bedde was for Heathens This was not the constituting of a new Church but reforming of the olde If therefore you can parallell vs with Pagans and your selues will bee Iewes this place fittes you Lastly what if there be an hatred betwixt the world Christs true Disciples Ioh. 17. 14. 16 what if Peter charged his auditors to saue themselues from the errours and practise of that froward generation whose handes were yet freshly imbrued with the blood of Christ Act. 2. 40. What if the same which Peter taught Paul practised in separating his followers from hearing some obstinate and blasphemous Iewes Act. 19. 9 VVhat if the Church of Corinth were Saints by calling 1. Cor. 1. 2 and therfore must be separated from the yoake of Infidels 2. Cor. 6. 17 Are these your patternes Are these fit matches for your brethren baptized in the same water and name professing euery point of the same true faith vsing for substance the same worshippe with you Hee that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother is in darkenesse 1. Ioh. 2. 9. SECTION VI. What separation is to be made by Churches in their planting or restauration BVT all these examples perhappes are not so much to warrant what you haue done as to condemne the Church of England for what shee hath not done for such a separation she neither hath made nor doth make but standes actually one with all that part of the world within the kingdome without separation Loe here the maine ground of this Schisme which your Proto-Martyr Barrow hammers vpon in euery page an ill constitution Thus he comments vpon your wordes For where such prophane confuse multitudes without any exception separation or choice were all of them from publique idolatrie at one instant receiued or rather compel'd to be members of the Church in some parish or other where they inhabited without any due calling to the faith by the preaching of the Gospell going before or orderly ioyning together in the faith there being no voluntarie or particular confession of their owne faith and dueties made or required of any and lastly no holy walking in the faith amongst them who can say that these Churches consisting of this people were euer rightly gathered or built according to the rule of Christs Testament In his words and yours I finde both a mis-collection and a wronge charge For the former the want of noting one poore distinction breedes all this confusion of doctrine and separation of men for there is one case of a new Church to be called from Heathenisme to Christianity another of a former Church to be reformed from errours to more sincere Christianity In the first of these is required indeede a solemne initiation by Baptisme and before that a voluntarie and particular confession of faith and therefore a cleare separation and exception of the Christian from the Infidell In the latter neither is new Baptisme lawfull though some of you belike of olde were in hand with a rebaptization which not then speeding succeedeth now to your shame nor a new voluntary and particular confession of Faith besides that in Baptisme though very commendable will euer be prooued simply necessary to the being of a Church so long as the erring parties doe actually renounce their doctrines and in open profession imbrace the truth and as generally in the publique confession so particularly vpon good occasion giue iust testimonies of their repentance This is our case we did not make a new Church but mended an old your Clifton is driuen to this hold by necessity of argument Otherwise he sees there is no auoiding of Anabaptisme Mended saith your Doctor and yet admitted the miscelline rabble of the prophane Say now that such separation were not made Let some few be holy and the more part prophane Shall the lewdnesse of some disanul Gods couenant with others This is your mercy Gods is more who still held Israel for his when but fewe held his pure seruice Let that diuine Psalmist teach you how full the Tents of Israel were of mutinous rebels in the desert yet the piller by day night forsooke them not and Moses was so farre from reiecting them that he would not indure God should reiect them to his owne aduantage Looke into the blacke censures and bitter complaints of all the Prophets wonder that they separated not Looke into the increased masse of corruptions in that declined Church whereof the blessed eyes of our Sauiour were witnesses and maruell at his silent and sociable incuriousnesse yea his charge of not separating yee knowe not of
yet they are twins and that so as eithers euill proues mutuall The sinnes of the Citie not reformed blemish the Church where the Church hath power and in a sort comprehends the State she cannot wash her hands of tollerated disorders in the CoÌ„mon-wealth hence is my comparison of the Church if you could haue seene it not the Kingdome of England with that of Amsterdam I doubt not but you could be content to sing the old song of vs Bona terra mala gens Our land you could like well if you might be Lordes alone Thankes be to God it likes not you and iustly thinkes the meanest corner too good for so mutinous a generation when it is weary of peace it will recall you you that neither in prison nor on the Seas nor in the Coasts of Virginea nor in your way nor in Netherland could liue in peace What shall we hope of your ease at home Where ye are all you thankful Tenants cannot in a powerful Christian state moue God to distinguish betwixt the knowen sinnes of the Citie and the Church How oft hath our gratious Soueraigne and how importunately beene solicited for a tolleration of Religions It is pittie that the Papists hyred not your aduocation who in this pointe are those true Cassanders which reuerend Caluin long since confuted Their wishes herein are yours To our shame and their excuse his Christian heart held that tolleration vnchristian and intollerable which you either neglect or magnifie Good Constantine wink 't at it in his beginning but as Dauid at the house of Zeruiah Succeeding times found these Canaanites to be prickes and thornes and therefore both by mulctes and banishments sought eyther their yeeldance or voydance If your Magistrates hauing once given their names to the Church indevour not to purge this Augean stable how can you preferre their Communion to ours But howsoeuer now least we should thinke your Land-lords haue too iust cause to pack you away for wranglers you turne ouer all the blame from the Church to the City yet your Pastor and Church haue so found the Citie in the Church and branded it with so blacke markes as that all your smooth extenuations cannot make it a lesse Babylon then the Church of England Beholde now by your owne Confessions either Amsterdam shall be or England shall not be Babylon These eleuen crimes you haue found and proclaimed in those Dutch and French Churches First That the assembles are so contriued that the whole Church comes not together in one So that the Ministers cannot together with the flock sanctifie the Lords day The presence of the members of the Church cannot be knowne and finally no publique action whether excommunication or any other can rightly be performed Could you say worse of vs Where neither Sabboth can be rightly sanctified nor presence or absence knowne nor any holy action rightly performed what can there be but mere confusion Secondly That they baptise the seede of them who are no members of any visible Church of whom moreouer they haue not care as of members neither admit their parents to the Lordes Supper Mere Babylonisme and sinne in constitution yea the same that makes vs no Church for what separation can there be in such admittance what other but a sinfull commixture How is the Church of Amsterdam now gathered from the world Thirdly That in the publique worshippe of God they haue deuised and vsed another forme of prayer besides that which Christ our Lord hath prescribed Mat. 6. reading out of a booke certain prayers inuented and imposed by man Beholde here our fellow Idolaters and as followes a daily Sacrifice of a set Seruice-booke which in stead of the sweete incense of spirituall prayers is offered to God very Swines-flesh a new Porâ—uise and an equal participation with vs of the curse of addition to the word Fourthly That rule and commandement of Christ Matth. 18. 15. they neither obserue nor suffer rightly to be obserued among them How oft haue you said that there can bee no sound Church without this course because no separation Beholde the maine blemish of England in the face of Amsterdam Fiftly That they worship God in the Idoll Temples of Antichrist so the Wine is mar'd with the vessell their seruice abhomination with ours neyther doe these Antichristian stones want all glorious ornaments of the Romish harlot yet more Sixtly That their Ministers haue their set maintenance after another manner then Christ hath ordained 1. Chr. 14. and that also such as by which any Ministery at all whether Popish or other might bee maintained Either tithes or as ill Beholde one of the maine Arguments wherby our Ministery is condemned as false and Antichristian falling heauie vppon our neighbours Seuenthly That their Elders change yearely and do not continue in their office according to the doctrine of the Apostles and practise of the Primitiue Church What can our Church haue worse then false Gouernours Both annuall and perpetual they cannot be VVhat is if not this a wrong in Constitution Eightly that they celebrate mariage in the Church as if it were a part of the Ecclesiasticall administration a foule shame and sinne and what better then our third Sacrament Ninthly That they vse a new censure of suspension which Christ hath not appointed no lesse then English presumption Tenthly That they obserue daies and times consecrating certaine daies in the yeare to the Natiuity Resurrection Ascension of Christ Beholde their Calender as truely possessed Two Commaundements solemnely broken at once and we not Idolaters alone Eleuenth which is last and worst that they receiue vnrepentant excommunicates to bee members of their Church which by this meanes becomes one one body with such as be deliuered vnto Sathan therefore none of Christs bodie England can be but a miscelline rabble of prophane men The Dutch and French Churches are belike no better who can be worse then an vnrepentant excommunicate Goe now and say It is the Apostasie of Antichrist to haue communion with the world in the holy things of God which are the peculiars of the Church and cannot without great Sacriledge be so prostituted and prophaned Goe say that the plaguy-spirituall-leprosie of sinne rising vp in the foreheads of many in that Church vnshut vp vncouered yea wilfully let loose infects all both persons and things amongst them Goe now and flie out of this Babylon also as the Hee-goates before the flocke or returne to ours But howeuer these errours bee grosse perhappes they are tractable Not the sinne vndoes the Church but obstinacy here is no euasion For behold you do no more accuse those Churches of corruption then of wilfulnesse for diuers times haue you dealt with them about these fearefull enormities yea you haue often deâ—ired that knowledge thereof might be by themselues giuen to the whole body of their Church or that at least they would take order that it might be done by you They haue refused both What
and them Thus we flatter thus wee deceiue if yet they will needs run to perdition Perditio tua ex te Israel Our Clergie is so Romish as our Baptisme If therefore Romish because they came thence wee haue disproued it If therefore Romish because they haue beene vsed there we graunt and iustifie it That auncient confession of their faith which was famous thorough the world we receiue with them If they hold one God one Baptisme one heauen one Christ shall we renounce it Why should wee not cast off our Christendome and humanitie because the Romanes had both How much Rome can either challenge or hope to gaine in our Clergie and Ministration is well witnessed by the blood of those Martyrs eminent in the Prelacie which in the fresh memories of many was shed for God against that Harlot and by the excellent labours of others both Bishops and Doctors whose learned pens haue pulled downe more of the wals of Rome then all the corner-creeping Brownists in the world shall euer be able to doe while Amsterdam standeth It is you that furnish these aduersaries with aduantages through your wilfull diuisions Take Scilurus his arrowes single out of the sheafe the least finger breakes them while the whole bundle feares no stresse wee know well where the blame is our deseruings can be no protection to you you went from vs not we from you Plead not our constraint you should not haue beene compelled to forsake vs while Christ is with vs But who compels you not to call vs brethren to denie vs Christians your zeale is so farre from iustifying the wicked that it condemnes the righteous SECTION LVIII The Brownists scornefull opinion of our people How scornefully doe you turne ouer our poore rude multitude as if they were beasts not men or if men not rude but sauage This contempt needed not These sonnes of the earth may goe before you to heauen Indeed as it was of old said that all Egyptians were Physitions so may it now of you All Brownists are diuines no Separatist cannot prophesie No sooner can they looke at the skirts of this hill but they are rapt from the ordinary pitch of men Either this change is perhaps by some strange illumination or else your learned paucitie got their skill amongst our rude and prophane multitude we haue still many in our rude multitude whom wee dare compare with your teachers neither is there any so lewd and prophane that cannot pretend a scandall from your separation Euen these soules must be regarded though not by you Such were some of you but ye are washed c. The wise hearted amongst vs doe more then suspect find out our weakenesses and bewaile them yet doe they not more discouer our imperfections then acknowledge our truth If they bee truely wise wee cannot suspect them they cannot forsake vs Their charitie will couer more then their wisdomes can discouer SECTION LIX The conclusion from the fearefull answere of Separation MY last threat of the easier aunsweres of whoredomes adulteries then Separation you think to skoffe out of countenance I feare your conscience will not alwayes allow this mirth Our Consistories haue spared you ynough let those which haue tryed say whether your corrupt Eldership be more safe iudges If ours imprison iustly yours excommunicate vniustly To be in Custodie is lesse grieuous then out of the Church at least if your censures were worth any thing but contempt As Hierom said of the like It is well that malice hath not so great power as will you shall one day I feare finde the Consistorie of heauen more rigorous if you wash not this wrong with your teares That tribunall shall find your confidence presumption your zeale furie you are bold surely more then wise To proclame we haue no need of such criers doubtlesse your head hath made Proclamations long now your hand begins What proclaime yee Separation from the Communion Gouernment Ministery and worship of the Church of England what needed it Your act might haue saued your voice what should our eyes and eares be troubled with one bad obiect But why separate you from these Because they rise vp rebelliously against the Scepter of Christ The Scepter of Christ is his word he holdes it out we touch and kisse it What one sentence of it doe we wilfully oppose away with these foolish impieties you thrust a Reed into your Sauiors hand say Haile King of the Iewes and will needes perswade vs none but this is his rodde of Iron Lastly vpon what warrant Of his will and Testament you may wrong vs But how dare you fasten your lies vpon your Redeemer and Iudge What clause of his hath bid you separate We haue the true Copies As we hope or desire to be saued we can find no sentence that soundeth toward the fauour of this your act Must God be accused of your wilfulnesse Before that God and his blessed Angels and Saints we feare not to protest that we are vndoubtedly perswaded that whosoeuer wilfully forsakes the Communion Gouernement Ministerie or worshippe of the Church of England are enemies to the Scepter of Christ and rebels against his Church and annointed neither doubt we to say that the Mastershippe of the Hospitall at Norwich or a lease from that Citie sued for with repulse might haue procured that this separation from the Communion Gouernement and worshippe of the Church of England should not haue beene made by Iohn Robinson FINIS A Table of all the Sections contained in this Booke THE entrance into the worke fol. 1. The answerers Preamble fol. 3. The parties written to and their crime fol. 6. The kindes of separation and which is iust fol. 8. The antiquitie and examples of separation fol. 12. What separation is to be made by Churches in their planting or restauration fol. 16. What separation the Church of England hath made fo 19 Constitution of a Church fol. 21 Order 2. Part of Constitution how farre requisite and whether hindred by Constraint fol. 23. Constraint requisite fol. 24 Constitution of the Church of England fol. 26. The Answerers title fol. 31. The Apostasie of the Church of England fol. 33. The Separatists acknowledgements of the graces of the Church of England fol. 39. The vnnaturalnes of some principall separatists fol. 42. What the Separatists thinke themselues beholden to the Church of England for fol. 44. The Motherhood of the Church of England how farre it obligeth vs. fol. 45. The want of pretended Ordinances of God whether sinfull to vs and whether they are to bee set vp without Princes fol. 48. The bonds of Gods word vniustly pleaded by the Separatists fol. 51. The necessity of their pretended Ordinances fol. 52. The enormities of the Church in common fol. 55. The Church of England is the Spouse of Christ. fol. 56. How the Church of England hath separated from Babylon fol. 57. The Separation made
by our holy Martyrs fol. 62. What separation England hath made fol. 63. The maine grounds of Separation fol. 65. The truth and warrant of the Ministery of England fol. 66. Confused Communion of the prophane fol. 70. Our Errours intermingled with Truth fol. 71. Whether our Prelacie be Antichristian fol. 74. The iudgement and practise of other Reformed Churches fol. 77. Our Synodes determination of things indifferent fol. 78. Sinnes sold in our Courts fol. 81. Our loyaltie to Princes cleared theirs questioned fol. 84. Errours of Free will c. fained vpon the Church of England fol. 86. Kneeling at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper fol. 87. Whether our Ordinarie and Seruice-Booke be made Idols by vs. fol. 89. Marriage not made a Sacrament by the Church of England fol. 95. Commutation of Penance in our Church fol. 98. Oath ex Officio fol. 99. Holy-daies how obserued in the Church of England 100. Our approbation of an vnlearned Ministery disproued fol. 102. Penances inioyned in the Church of England fol. 103. The practises of the Church of England concerning the Funerals of the dead fol. 104. The Churches still retained in England fol. 108. The Founders and Furnitures of our Churches fol. 110. On what ground Separation or Ceremonies was obiected fol. 112. Estimation of Ceremonies and subiection to the Prelates fol. 114. The state of the Temple and of our Church in resemblance fol. 117. Whether Ministers should endure themselues silenced fol. 119. Power of reforming abuses giuen to the Church and the issue of the neglect of it fol. 121. The view of the sinnes and disorders of others wherupon obiected and how farre it should affect vs. fol. 124. The nearenesse of the State and Church and the great errours found by the Separatists in the French and Dutch Churches fol. 127. Conuersation with the world fol. 132. The impure mixtures of the Church of England fo 133. The iudgement of our owne and our neighbours of our Church fol. 137. The issue of Separation fol. 140 The Brownists scornefull opinion of our people fol. 143. The Conclusion from the fearefull aunswere of Separation fol. 144. Errata Read welbeloueds for welbelouedst Epist pa. vlt. Conâ—iction for coniunction pag. 32. line 19. Vncharitablenesse for vnchariblenesse pag. 47. line 18. Optat. lib. 3. for Opt. lib. 30. marg pag. 49. Rules of Christ for rules Christ. pag. 50. line 1. Places onwards for places onwards pag. 66. line 18. Our Ministerie for your Ministerie pag. 67. line 8. That houses for what houses pag. 80. line 16. waryof for weary of pag. 88. line 16. shrifte for strife pa. 99. l. 12 Enuie for annoy pag. 103. line 13. Ingenuously for ingeniously pag. 104. line 19 which are in for which are in pag. 107. line 13. Besides many quotations in the margent are misplaced the matter will leade the Reader to the right place The words of the aduersarie are onely those which haue this Note of Sep. set before them Meam iniuriam patieÌ„tertuli impietatem contra SpoÌ„sam Christi ferre non potui Hier ad Vigilant Zach. 8. 19. Matth. 18. 7. Otho Frising ex Philon. Vr. Chaldaeorum Ruffiin Ecclâ—s hist. l. 2. c. 26. Dan. 3. Vid. Treatis of certainâ— godly Minist ag Barr. 1. Retorted Sâ—p It is a hard thing euen for sober minded men in cases of controuersie to vse soberly the aduantages of the times vpon which whilst men are mounted on high they vse to behold such as they oppose too ouerlie and not without contempt and so are oft times emboldened to roule vpon them as from aloft very weake and weightlesse discourses thinking any sleight and slender opposition sufficient to oppresse those vnderlings whom they haue as they suppose at so great an aduantage Vpon this very presumption it commeth to passe that this Author vndertaketh thus solemnly and seuerely to censure a cause whereof as appeareth in the sequell of the discourse hee is vtterly ignorant which had he beene but halfe so carefull to haue vnderstood as hee hath beene forward to censure hee would either haue beene I doubt not more equall towards it or more weightie against it * 2. Confuted * Hier. Marco presbyt De cauernis cellularum damnamus orbem in sacco cinere volutati de Episcopis sententiam ferimus Quid facit sub tunica paenitentis regius animus Cypr. l. 3. Ep. 9. Haec sunt initia haereticorum vt sibi placean vt praepositum superbo tumore contemnant Harison once theirs in Psal. 122. of Brown Antichristian pride and bitternes Bredw pref M Brinsly his pref to the 2. part of the VVatch. Optat. Mil. de Donat. Collegae non eritis siâ—o litis fratres estis c. Disclaimed by themselues Answer against Broughton page 21. Separat schism M. Giff. an ignorant Priest Barr. p. 64. Confer of D. And. M. Huchius with Barrow M. Spr. 3. 〈◊〉 siderat Iren. l. 1. Per singulos dies nouum aliquod adsectant c. * Bar. Confer with Hutchins fo 1. Browne estatâ— of true Christians Defence of true Christians against the Doct. of Oxford Iohnson against Iacob passim Barr. against Gyfford Sepa As this Epistle is come to mine hands so I wish the answere of it may come to the hands of him that occasioned it Intreating the Christian Reader in the name of the Lord vnpartially to behold without either preiudice of cause or respect of person what is written on both sides and so from the Court of a sound conscience to giue iust iudgement To M. Smith and M. Rob. Ring-leaders of the late separation at Amsterd Charact. of the Beast written by M. Smith Pref. Be it knowne therefore to all the separation that we account them in respect of their constitution to be as very an Harlot as either her Mother the Church of England or her Grandmother Rome is c. Iterato Baptizatus scienter it erato Dominum crucifigit De consecr dist 4. Qui vis c. * The crime of separation how great Sep. The crime here obiected is separation a thing very odious in the eyes of all them from whom it is made as euermore casting vpon them the imputation of euill whereof all men are impatient And hence it commeth to passâ— that the Church of England can better brooke the vilest persons continuing communion with it then any whomsoeuer separating from it though vpon neuer so iust and well grounded reasons Vid. Iohnson Preface to his Inquirie Esay 5. 20. M. Penry in his Disc. of this subiect Num. 16 31. â—xod 32. 30. Prou. 21. 2. Sepa And yet separation from the world and so from the men of the world and so from the Prince of the world that raigneth in them and so from whatsoeuer is contrarie to God is the first steppe to our communion with God and Angels and good men as the first steppe to a Ladder is to leaue the earth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Num. 18. 14 Num. 16. 9. Deut. 10. 1. Exod. 13. 12. Leuit. 15. 21. Deut.
and liuely stones 1. Kin. 5. 17. 18 6. 7. 1. pet 2. 5. and of the Cedars Firs and Thyne trees of Lebanon 2. Chr. 2. 8. framed and set together in that comely order which a greater then Salomon hath prescriâ—ed vnto which God hath promised his presence But whilst we take it to be as it is a confused heape of dead and defiled and polluted stones and of all rubbish of Bryers and brambles of the wildernesse for the most part fitter for burning then building we take our selues rather bound to shew our obedience in departing from it then our valour in purging it and to follow the prophets councel in flying out of Babylon as the hee goats before the flock Ieâ— 50. 8 Sep. And what I pray you is the valour which the best hearted and most zealous Reformers amongst you haue manifested in driuing out the Mony-changers doth it not appeare in this that they suffer themselues to be driuen out with the two stringed Whippe of Ceremonies and subscription by the Mony-changers the Chancellers and Officials which sell. sinnes like Doues and by the chiefe priests the Bishoppes which set them on worke so farre are the most zealous amongst you from driuing out the Mony-changers as they themselues are driuen out by them because they will not change with them to the vtmost farthing Bar. Refor without Tar. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVee charge him not to serue any more So Can. 15. Can. 25. Cum compertuÌ„ fuerit deponatur Can. 10. De Clericatus honore periclitabitur Can. 2. E clero deponatur sit alienus a Canone Can. 17. et Can. 18. A ministerio cessare debuerit Concil Sardic c. 4. CoÌ„cil Carth. 4. c. 48. 56. 57. Leo. Ep. 1. Sect. 5. Cypr. l. 3. Ep. 9. Sâ—cr l. 2. c. 21. Bar ag Gyff p. 27. 88. Sep. For the Wafers in Geneua and disorders in Corinth they were corruptions which may and doe or the like vnto them creep into the purest Churches in the world for the reformation wherof Christ hath giuen his power vnto his Church that such euils as are brought in by humane frailty may by diuine authority bee purged out This power and presence of Christ you want holding all by homage or rather by vilenage vnder the Prelates vnto whose sinfull yoake you stoup in more then Babylonish bondage bearing and approuing by personall communion infinite abhominations Troubl Excom at Amsterd An tu solus Ecclesia es Et qui te offenderit a Christo excluditur Hieron Eriphan Cypr. Solus in caelum ascend Pupianus Et ad Acesium Nouatianum Constant. Erigito tibi scalam Acesi ad caelum solus ascendito Socr. l. 1. C. 7. Bar. Gyff ref So some of their owne haue termed their excommunication Confess by M. Iohns Inqu p. 65 Col. 1. 18. Sep. And in these two last respects principally your Babylonish confusion of all sorts of people in the body of your Church without separation and your Babylonish bondage vnder your spirituall Lords the Prelates we account you Babylon and flie from you Amari Parens Episcopus debet non timeri Hier. ad Theophilum Sep. M. H hauing formerly expostulated with vs our supposed impietie in forsaking a ceremonious Babylon in England proceeds in the next place to lay downe our madnesse in chusing a substantiall Babylon in Amsterdam and if it be so found by due trial as he suggesteth it is hard to say whether our impiety or madnes be the greater Sep. Belike M. H. thinkes we gather churches here by towne-rowes as they doe in England and that all within the parish procession are of the same Church Wherefore else tels hee vs of Iewes Arrians and Anabaptists with whom we haue nothing common but the streetes and market-place It iâ— the condition of the Church to liue in the world and to haue ciuill society with the men of this world 1. Cor. 5. 10. Ioh. 17. 13. But what is this to that spirituall communion of the saints in the fellowshippe of the Gospell wherin they are separated and sanctified from the world vnto the Lord Ioh 17. 16. 1. Cor. 1. 2. Cor. 6. 17. 18. Separation from the world how required Ioh. 17. 16. 1. Cor. 1. 2. 1. Cor. 3. 3. Sep. We indeed haue much wickednes in the Citie where we liue you in the Church â—ut in earnest doe you imagine we account the Kingdome of England Babylon or the citie of Amsterdam Syon It is the Church of England or state Ecclesiasticall which we account Babylon and from which we withdraw in spirituall communion â—ut for the common-wealth and Kingdome as we honor it aboue all the states in the world so wold we thankfully embrace the meanest corner in it at the extreamest conditions of any people in the Kingdome Cassand de Offic boni viri Bellar. de Laicis Euseb. in vita Const. Fr. Iohns Articles ag the Frâ— and Dutch Churches Bar. ag Gyss Counrtepoys Sep. The hellish impieties in the citie of Amsterdam doe no more preiudice our heauenly communion in the Church of Christ then the frogs lyce flyes moraine and other plagues ouerspreading Egypt did the Israelites when Goshen the portion of their inheritance was free Exod 8. 19. nor then the deluge wherewith the whole world was couered did Noah when he and his family were safe in the Arke Gen. 7. nor then sathans throne did the Church of Pergamus being established in the same citie with it Reâ— 2. 12 13. Sep. It is 〈◊〉 will of God and of Christ that his Church should abide in the world and conuerse with it in the affaires therof which are common to both But it is the Apostasie of Antichrist to haue communion with the vvorld in the holy things of God which are the peculiars of the Church and cannot without great sacriledge be so prostituted and prophaned Duobus modâ— non te maâ—ulat malus vidâ—licet si non consentis si redargâ—is d. 23. q. 4. a malis Sep. The ayre of the Gospell which you draw in is nothing so free and cleare as you make shevv it is only because you are vsed to it that makes you so iudge 1. Canons Sep. The thicke smoake of your Canons especially of such as are planted against the Kingdome of Christ the visible Church and the administration of it do both obscure and poyson the ayre which you all draw in and wherein you breath 2. Sinne vncensured Sep. The plaguy-spirituall-leprosie of sinne rising vp in the foreheads of so many thousands in the Church vnshut vp vncouered infects all both persons and things amongst you Leu. 13. 45. 46. 47. 2. cor 6 17. Certe nullius crimen maculat nescientem Aug. Ep. 48. 1. Reg. 19. 18. 3. Heirarchy Sep. The blasting Hierarchie suffers no good thing to grow or prosper but withers all both budde and branch 4. Seruice-booke Sep. The daily sacrifice of the seruice-booke which in stead of spirituall prayer sweete as incense you offer vp morning and
A COMMON APOLOGIE OF THE CHVRCH OF ENGLAND Against the vniust Challenges of the ouer-iust Sect commonly called Brownists Wherein the grounds and Defences of the Separation are largely discussed OCCASIONED BY A Late Pamphlet published vnder the name Of an Answer to a Censorious Epistle Which the Reader shall finde in the Margent By I. H. LONDON Printed for Samuel Macham and are to be sold at his Shop in Pauls Church-yard at the Signe of the Bull-head 1610. TO OVR GRATIOVS AND BLESsed Mother the Church of ENGLAND THE MEANEST OF HER Children Dedicates this her Apology and wisheth all Peace and Happines NO lesse then a yeare and a halfe is past Reuerend Deare and holy Mother since I wrote a louing monitory letter to two of thine vnworthy Sons which I heard were fled from thee in person in affection and somewhat in opinion Supposing them yet thine in the maine substance though in some circumstances their owne Since which one of them hath wash't of thy Font-water as vnclean and hath written desperately both against thee and his owne fellowes From the other I receiued not two moneths since a stomakful Pamphlet besides the priuate iniuries to the monitor casting vpon thine honourable name blasphemos imputations of Apostasie Antichristianisme Whoordome Rebellion Mine owne wronges I could haue contemned in silence but For Sions sake I cannot hold my peace If I remember not thee O Ierusalem let my tongue cleaue to the roofe of my mouth It were a shame and sinne for me that myzeale should be lesse hote for thine innocency then theirs to thy false disgrace How haue I hastened therefore to let the world see thy sincere truth and their peruerse slanders Vnto thy sacred name then whereto I haue in all piety deuoted my selfe I humbly present this my speedy and dutifull labour whereby I hope thy weak Sonnes may be confirmed the strong encouraged the rebellious shamed And if any shall still obstinately accurse thee I referre their reuenge vnto thy Glorious Head who hath espoused thee to himselfe in trueth and righteousnesse Let him whose thou art right thee In the meane time we thy true sonnes shall not onely defend but magnifie thee Thou maiest be blacke but thou art comely the Daughters haue seene thee and counted thee blessed euen the Queene and the Concubines and they haue praised thee thou art thy Welbelouedst and his desire is towards thee So let it be and so let thine be towards him for euer and mine towards you both who am the least of all thy little ones IOS HALL A COMMON Apologie against the Brownists SECTION I. The entrance into the worke IF Truth and peace Zacharyes two companions had met in our loue this Controuersie had neuer beene the seuering of these two hath caused this separation for while some vnquiet mindes haue sought Trueth without Peace they haue at once lost Truth Peace Loue vs and themselues God knowes how vnwillingly I put my hand to this vnkind quarrell Nothng so much abates the courage of a Christian as to call his brother aduersary We must doe it woe to the men by whom this offence commeth Yet by how much the insultation of a brotherly enemy is more intollerable and the griefe of our blessed mother greater for the wrong of her owne So much more cause I see to breake this silence If they will haue the last words they may not haue all For our carriage to them They say when Fire the God of the Chaldees had deuoured all the other wooden Deities that Canopis set vpon him a Caldron full of water whose bottome was deuised with holes stop't with waxe which no sooner felt the flame but gaue way to the quenching of that furious Idoll If the fire of inordinate zeale conceite contention haue consumed all other parts in the separation and cast forth more then Nebuchadnezers furnace from their Amsterdam hither it were well if the waters of our moderation and reason could vanquish yea abate it This litle Hin of mine shall be spent that way wee may trie and wish but not hope it The spirits of these men are too-well knowne to admit any expectation of yeeldance since yet both for preuention and necessary defence this taske must be vndertaken I craue nothing of my Reader but patience and iustice of God victory to the truth as for fauour I wish no more then an enemy would giue against himselfe With this confidence I enter into these lifts and turne my penne to an Aduersary GOD knowes whether more proud or weake SECTION II. The Answerers Preamble IT is a hard thing euen for those which would seem sober minded men in cases of controuersie to vse soberly the frownes and disaduantages of causes and times whereby whiles men are deiâ—cted and troden downe they vse to behold their opposites mounted on high too repiningly and not without desperate enuie so are oftentimes moued to shoote vp at them as from below the bitter arrowes of spightfull and splenish discourses thinking any hatefull opposition sufficiently charitable to oppugne those aduersaries which haue them as they feele at so great an aduantage vpon this impotent malitiousnesse it commeth to passe that this aunswerer vndertaketh thus seuerely and peremptorily to censure that charitable censure of ignorance which as shall appeare in the sequell he either simply or willingly vnderstood not and to brand a deare Church of Christ with Apostacy Rebellion Antichristianisme What can bee more easie then to returne accusations Your Preamble with a graue bitternes charges me with 1. Presumption vpon aduantages 2. Weake and weightlesse discourse 3. Ignorance of the cause censured It had beene madnesse in me to write if I had not presumed vpon aduantages but of the cause of the truth not of the times Though blessed bee God the times fauour the truth and vs if you scorn them and their fauours complaine not to be an vnderling Thinke that the times are wiser then to bestow their fauours vpon willfull aduersaries but in spight of times you are not more vnder vs in estate then in conceipt aboue vs so wee say the Sunne is vnder a cloud we know it is aboue it Would God ouerlinesse and contempt were not yours euen to them which are mounted highest vpon best desert and now you that haue not learned sobrietie in iust disaduantages taxe vs not to vse soberly the aduantages of time there was no gall in my penne no insultation I wrote to you as brethren and wish't you companions there was more danger of flattery in my stile then bitternesse wherein vsed I not my aduantages soberly Not in that I said too much but not enough Not in that I was too sharpe but not weighty enough My opposition was not too vehement but too sleight and slender So strong Champions blame their aduersary for striking too easily you might haue forborne this fault it was my fauour that I did not my worst you are worthy of
more weight that complaine of ease The discourse that I rol'd downe vpon you was weake and weightlesse you shall well finde this was my lenitie not my impotence The fault hereof is partly in your expectation not in my letter I meant but a short Epistle you look't belike for a volume or nothing I meant onely a generall monition you look't for a solide prosecution of particulars It is not for you to giue taskes to others pennes By what Lawe must wee write nothing but large Scholasticall Discourses Such Tomes as yours May we not touch your sore vnlesse wee will launce and search it I was not enough your enemie forgiue me this errour and you shall smart more But not onely my omissions were of ignorance but my censures though seuere and solemne An easie imputation from so great a Controuler I pardon you and take this as the common lot of enemies I neuer yet could see any Scribler so vnlearned as that he durst not charge his opposite with ignorance If Dr. Whitaker M. Perkins M. Gyfford and that Oracle of our present times Dr. Andrewes went away content with this liuerie from yours how can I repine If I haue censured what cause I knew not let me bee censured for more then ignorance impudencie but if you know not what I censured let all my trust lie on this issue take both ignorance boldnesse and malice to your selfe Is your cause so mysticall that you can feare any mans ignorance What Cobler or Spinster hath not heard of the maine holds of Brownisme Am I only a stranger in Hierusalem If I know not all your opinions pardon me Your owne haue not receiued this illumination I speake boldly not your selfe Euery day brings new conceites and not one day teaches but corrects another you must be more constant to your selues ere you can vpbraide ignorance or auoide it But whether I knew your prime fancies appeares sufficiently by a particular discourse which aboue a yeare since was in the hands of some of your Clients and I wonder if not in yours Shortly am I ignorant If I were obstinate too you might hope with the next gale for me your more equall aduersarie at Amsterdam As I am my want of care and skil shal I hope loose nothing of the trueth by you nor suffer any of your foule aspersions vpon the face of Gods Church and ours But whiles we striue who shall be our Iudge The Christian Readers who are those Presume not yee more zealous and forward Countrey men that you are admitted to this Bench so farre are wee meere English from being allowed Iudges of them that they haue already iudged vs to be no Christians We are Goates and Swine no Sheepe of God since then none but your Parlour in the West and Amsterdam must bee our Iudges who I beseech you shall be our aduersaries God be iudge betwixt you and vs and correct this your vnchristian vncharitablenesse SECTION III The parties written to and their Crime I Wrote not to you alone what is become of your partner yea your guide Woe is me he hath renounced our Christendome with our Church and hath wash't of his former water with new and now condemnes you all for not separating further no lesse then we condemne you for separating so far As if you could not be enough out of Babylon vnlesse you be out of your selues Alas miserable countrimen whither runne you Religion hath but his height beyond which is errour and madnesse Hee telles you true your station is vnsafe either you must forward to him or backe to vs. I obiected separation to you yet not so extreame as your answere bewrayes a late separation not the first my charity hoped you lesse ill then you will needes deserue you graunt it odious because it casts imputation of euil vpon the forsaken Of euill Yea of the worst an estate incurable and desperate He is an ill Phisitian that will leaue his patient vpon euery distemper his departure argues the disease helpelesse were wee but faulty as your Landlord Churches your owne Rules would not abide your flight Hence the Church of England iustly matches Separatists with the vilest persons GOD himselfe doth so who are more vile then Patrons of evill yet no greater woe is to them that speake good of euill then those that speake euill of good So wise Generalls punish mutinous persons worse then Robbers or Adulterers So Corah and his companie a Storie cunningly turned vpon vs by your Martyr for their opposition to Moses were more fearefully plagued then the Idolatrous Israelites These sinnes are more directly against common societie the other more personall and if both haue like iniquitie yet the former haue both more offence and more danger And if not so yet who cannot rather brooke a lewdâ— seruant then an vnduetifull sonne though pretending faire colours for his disobedience At least you thinke the Church of England thinkes her selfe Gods Church as wel as your Saints of Amsterdam You that so accurse Apostacie in others could yee expect shee should brooke it in you But your reasons are iust and well grounded euery way of a man is right in his owne eyes Said wee not well that thou art a Samaritane and hast a Diuell say the Iewes What Schisme euer did not thinke well of it selfe For vs wee call heauen and earth to record your cause hath no more iustice then your selues haue charitie SECTION IIII. The kinds of separation and which is iust YEt there is a commendable and happie separation from the world from the Prince and men of the world and whatsoeuer is contrarie to God who doubts it There were no heauen for vs without this no Church which hath her name giuen by her father and husband of calling out from other Out of the Egypt of the world dooth God call his sonnes But this separation is into the visible Church from the world not as yours out of the Church because of some particular mixtures with the world or if you had rather take it of profession out of the world of Pagans and Infidels into the visible Church not out of the world of true though â—aultie Christians into a purer Church That I may here at once for all giue light to this point of separation we finde in Scripture a separation either to good or from euill To good so the Leuites were separated from among the children of Israel to beare the Arke and to minister so the first borne first fruites and Cities of refuge So Paul was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 separated which some would haue allude to his Pharisaisme but hath plaine reference to Gods owne words Act. 13. 2. separate me Barnabas and Saul Though this is rather a destination to some worthy purpose then a properly called separation From euill whither sinne or sinners From sinne so euery soule must eschew euill
what spirite you are Nowe you flye to constitution as if notorious euils were more to tollerable in the continuance then in the collection of assembles Sar di had but a few names that had not defiled their garments God praises these biddes them not separate from the rest Thyatirâ— suffers a false Prophetesse the rest that haue not this learning yet are bidden but to hold their owne not to separate from the Angell which hath not separated Iezebel from the Church SECTION VII What separation the Church of England hath made YOur charge is no lesse iniurious that the Church of England hath made no separation Concerning which you haue learned of your Martyr and Ouerseers so to speake as if before her late disclamation of Popery in Queene Elizabeths time she had not beene Her Monuments could haue taught you better and haue ledde you to her auncient Pedigree not much below the Apostolike daies and in many discents haue shew'd you not a few worthy witnesses and Patrons of Truth all which with their holy and constant of-spring it might haue pleased you to haue separated from this imputation of not separating Will you know therefore how the Church of England hath separated In her first conuersion she separated her selfe from Pagans in her continuance she separated her selfe from grosse heretiques and sealed her separation with blood in her reformation she separated her selfe from wilfull Papists by her publique profession of Truth and proclaimed hatred of errour and she daily doth separate the notoriously euil by suspensions by excommunications though not so many as yours Besides the particular separations of many from the acknowledged corruptions in iudgement profession practise All these will be auowed in spight of all contradiction with what forehead then can you say the whole Church of England hath not at all separated After all your shifts and idle tales of constitution you haue separated from this Church against the Lord not with the Lord from it If there be Christ with vs if the spirit of God in vs if Assemblies if calling by the word whatsoeuer is or is not else in the Constitution there is whatsoeuer is required to the essence of a Church no corruption eyther in gathering or continuance can destroy the truth of being but the grace of being well If Christ haue taken away his word and spirit you haue iustly subduced els you haue gone from him in vs. And when you haue al done the Separatists Idol visible Constitution will proue but an appendance of an externall forme no part of the essence of a true Church and therefore your separation no lesse vain then the ground then the Authours Lastly if our bounty should which it cannot grant that our collection was at first deepely faulty cannot the Raâ—ihabition as the Lawyers speake bee drawne backe In contracts your owne similitude a following consent iustifies an act done before consent and why not in the contract betwixt GOD and his visible Church Loe he hath confirm'd it by his gratious benedictions and as much as may bee in silence giuen vs abundant proofes of his acceptation That after-act which makes your baptisme lawfull why can it not make our Church SECTION VIII Constitution of a Church BBut for as much as Constitution is the very state of Brownisme Let vs I beseech you inquire a little into the Complexion of your Constitution Whether Physicke or Lawe or Architecture haue lent you it sure I am it is in this vse Apocryphall Neuer man vsed it thus scrupulously till your times Though what neede you the helpe of Fathers or Schooles new words must expresse new Paradoxes It is no treason to coyne tearmes What then is Constitution Your Doctor can best tell vs As the Constitution of a Common-wealth or of a City is a gathering or vniting of people together into a ciuill policy So saith he the Constitution of the Common-wealth of Israel and of the City of God the new Ierusalem is a gathering and vniting of people into a Diuine Politie The forme of which Polity is Order which Order is requisite in all actions and Administrations of the Church as the Apostle sheweth and specially in the Constitution thereof So that next vnto faith in God it is to be esteemed most necessary for all holy societies Hence Paul reioyced in the Colossians order and faith To this Constitution therefore belong a people as the matter secondly a calling or gathering together as the form wherof the Church consisteth The Constitution of the Church of England is false in both VVhy so Haâ—â— we not a people Are not those people called together To preuent this you say our Constitution is false not none VVhy false Because those people haue neither faith nor order For faith first VVho are you that dare thus boldy breake into the Closets of God the hearts of men and condemne them to want that which cannot be seene by any but Diuine eies how dare you intrude thus into the throne of your Maker Consider and conferre seriously VVhat faith is it that is thus necessarily required to each member in this Constitution Your owne Doctor shall define it Faith required to the receiuing in of members is the knowledge of the doctrine of saluation by Christ 1. Cor. 12. 9. Gal. 3. 2. Now I beseech you in the feare of God lay by a while all vnchristian preiudice and peremptory verdicts of those soules which cost Christ as much blood as your owne and tell mee ingenuously whether you dare say that not onely your Christian brethren with whom you lately conuersed but euen your forefathers which liued vnder Queene Elizabeths first confused reformation knew not the doctrine of saluation by Christ if you say they did not your 〈◊〉 iudgement shal be punished fearefully by him whose office you vsurpe As you looke to answere before him that would not breake the bruised Reede nor quench the smoaking Flaxe presume not thus aboue men and Angels If they did then had they sufficient clayme both to true Constitution and Church But this faith must be testified by obedience so it was If you thinke not so yours is not testified by loue Both were weake both were true Weakenes in any grace or worke takes not away truth Their sinnes of ignorance could no more 〈◊〉 Gods couenant with them them multiplicity of wiues with the Patriarches SECTION IX Secondly Order VVHat wanted they then Nothing but Order and not all Order but yours Order a thing requisite and excellent but let the world indge whether essentiall Consider now I beseech you in the bowels of Christ Iesus whither this be a matter for which heauen and earth should be mixed whether for want of your Order all the world must be put out of all Order and the Church out of life and being Nothing say we can be more disorderly then the confusion of your Democracy or popular state if not Anarchyâ—
but the men Shall we say this is too much malice or too little wit and conscience Euen in the Lord Protectors daies that holy man reports that after the Scriptures restored and Masses abolished greater thinges followed these softer beginnings in the reformation of the Churches Learned and godly Diuines were called for from forraine parts a separation was made though not so much willing as wilfull of open and manifest aduersaries from Professors whether true or dissembled Commissioners were appointed to visite euery seuerall Diocesse Euery Bench of them had seuerall godly and learned Preachers to instruct the people in the truth and to disswade them from Idolatry and Superstition The Popes Supremacy not thrust but taught downe All wil-worshippe whatsoeuer oppugned by publique Sermons Images destroyed Pilgrimages forbidden the Sacraments inioyned to be reuerently and holily ministred Ecclesiastical persons reformed in life in doctrine Processions laide downe Presence and attendance vpon Gods word commanded the holy expending of Sabboth dayes appointed due preparation to Gods table called for set times of teaching inioyened to Bishoppes and other Ministers all shrâ—nes and Monuments of Idolatry required to be vtterly taken from publique and priuate houses All this before his Parliament By that all bloody lawes against Gods trueth were repealed zealous Preachers encouraged so as saith that worthy Historian God was much glorified and the people in many places greatly edified What neede I goe further then this first yeare Heare this and be ashamed and assure your selues that no man can euer read those holy Monuments of the Church but must needes spit at your separation After that sweete and hopefull Prince what his renowmed sister Queene Elizabeth did the present times doe speake and the future shall speake when all these Murmurers shall sleepe in the dust The publique disputations zealous Preachings restaurations of banished religion and men extirpations of Idolatry Christian lawes wise and holy proceedings and renewed couenants with God are still fresh in the memories of some and in the eares of all so as all the world wil iustly say you haue lost shame with truth in denying it Yea to fetch the matter yet further If the Reader shall looke backe to the daies of their Puissant Father King Henry the eight he cannot but acknowledge especially during the time of Queene Anne and before those sixe bloody Articles a true face of a Church though ouer-spreade with some morphue of corruptions and some commendable forwardnesse of Reformation for both the Popes Supremacy was abrogated the true doctrine of Iustification commonly taught confidence in Saints vntaught the vanity of Pardons declared worshippe of Images and Pilgrimages forbidden learned and godly Ministers required their absences and mis-demeaners inhibited the Scriptures translated publickly and priuately inioyned to be read and receiued the word of God commaunded to be sincerely and carefully preached and to all this holy Master Foxe addeth for my conclusion such a vigilant care was then in the King and his Councell how by all wayes and meanes to redresse Religion to reforme errours to correct corrupt customes to helpe ignorance and to reduce the mis-leadings of Christs Flocke drowned in blinde Popery superstitious customes and Idolatry to some better forme of Reformation whereunto he prouided not onely these Articles Precepts Iniunctions aboue specified to inform the rude people but also procured the Bishops to helpe forward the same cause of decayed doctrine with their diligent preaching and teaching of the people Goe now say that suddenly in one day by Queen Elizabeths trumpet or by the sound of a Bell in the name of Antichrist all were called to the Church Goe say with your Patriarch that wee erect Religions by Proclamations and Parliaments Vpon these premises I dare conclude and doubt not to maintaine against all Separatists in the world that England to goe no higher had in the daies of King Henry the eight a true visible Church of God and so by consequent their succeeding seede was by true Baptisme iustly admitted into the bosome therof and therefore that euen of them without any further profession Gods Church was truly constituted If you shall say that the following Idolatrie of some of them in Queene Maries daies excluded them Consider how hard it will be to prooue that Gods couenant with any people is presently disanulled by the sinnes of the most whether of ignorance or weakenesse and if they had herein renounced GOD yet that GOD also mutually renounced them To shut vppe your Constitution then There is no remedy Eyther you must goe forward to Anabaptisme or come backe to vs All your Rabbines caâ—not aunswere that charge of your rebaptized brother If wee bee a true Church you must returne If wee bee not as a false Church is no Church of GOD you must rebaptise If our Baptisme be good then is our constitution good Thus your owne Principles teach The outward parte of the true visible Church is a Vowe Promise Oathe or Couenant betwixt GOD and the Saints Now I aske Is this made by vs in Baptisme or noe If it be then we haue by your Confession for so much as is outwardly required a true visible Church so your separation is vniust If it be not then you must rebaptise for the first Baptisme is a nullity and if ours be not you were neuer thereby as yet entred into any visible Church SECTION XII The Aunswerers title AS for the title of Ring-leader wherewith I stiled this pamphleter if I haue giuen him too much honour in his Sect I am sory Perhappes I should haue put him pardon an homely but in this sense not vnusall word in the taile of this Traine Perhaps I should haue endorsed my Letter to Master Smith and his shadow So I perceiue he was Whatsoeuer whither he lead or follow God meetes with him If hee lead Behold I will come against them that prophesie false dreames saith the Lorde and doe tell them and cause my people to erre by their lies If he come behinde Thou shalt not follow a multitude in euill saith God If either or both or neither If he will goe alone Woe vnto the foolish Prophets saith the Lord which follow their owne spirits and haue seene nothing Howsoeuer your euill shall bee reproued by the light of Gods word Your coniâ—â—ction I cannot promise your reproofe I dare If therupon you shall finde grace to see and heale your errours we should with all brotherly humblenesse attend on foote vpon your returne on Horse-backe but if the sway of your mis-resolued conscience bee heady and vnresistable and your retyring hopelesse these not solide reasons these pretty pamphlets these formall flourishes shall one day be fearefull and materiall euidences against you before that awefull Iudge which hath already sayd That iudgements are prepared for the scorners and stripes for the backe of fooles SECTION XIII The Apostacie of the Church of England I professed
to bestow pitie and sorrow vpon you and your wrong You entertaine both harshly and with a churlish repulse What should a man do with such dispositions Let him stroke them on the backe they snarle at him and show their teeth Let him shew them a Cudgell they flie in his face You allow not our actions and returne our wrong Ours is both the iniurie and complaint How can this be You are the agents we sit still and suffer in this rent Yet since the cause makes the Schisme let vs inquire not whose the action is but whos 's the desert Our Church is deepe drencht in Apostacie and wee crie Peace Peace No lesse then a whole Church at once that not sprinkled or wetshod but drencht in Apostacie What did we fall off from you or you from vs Tell me were we euer the true Church of God And were we then yours We cannot fall vnlesse we once stood Was your Church before this Apostacie Show vs your ancestours in opinion Name me but one that euer taught as you doe and I vow to separate Was it not Then we fell not from you Euery Apostacie of a Church must needs be from the true Church A true Church and not yours And yet can there be but one true See now whether in branding vs with Apostasie you haue not proued yours to be no true Church Still I am ignorant Queene Maries dayes you say had a true Church which separated from Poperie chose them Ministers serued God holily from thence was our Apostacie But were not the same also for the most part Christians in King EDVVARDS dayes Did they then in that confused allowance of the Gospel separate Or I pray you were Cranmer Latimer Ridley Hooper and the rest parts of that Church or no Was there any other ordination of Ministers then from them Reiect these and all the world will hisse at you Receiue them and where is our Apostacie What Antichristianisme haue we whereof these were freed But you leape backe if I vrge you farre from hence to the Apostles times to feâ—ch our once true Church from farre that it might bee deare You shall not carue for vs we like not these bold ouer-leapes of so many Centuries I speake boldly you dare not stand to the trial of any Church since theirs Now I heare your Doctor say this Challenge sauors of Rome Antiquitie is with you a Popish plea We haue willingly taken vp our aduersaries at this by pretence their owne weapon You debarre it in the conscience of your owne nouell singularitie Yet your Pastor can be content to make vse of Tertullian alone against all Fathers That such things are iustly to be charged with vanitie as are done without any precept either of the Lord or of the Apostles And the Apostles did faithfully deliuer to the nations the Discipline they receiued of Christ which we must beleeue to be the tumultuary Discipline of the refined house-full at Amster dam What all in all ages and places till now Apostates Say if you can that those famous Churches wherein Cyprian Athanasius Ambrose Hierome Austen Chrysostome and the rest of those blessed lights liued were lesse deepe in this Apostacy then ours O Apostaticall Fathers that separated not yea say if you dare that other reformed Churches are not ouer the Ankles with vs in this Apostacy What hard newes is this to vs when as your Oracle dare say not much lesse of the Reformed Churches of Netherlands with whom you liue Thus he writes For not hearing of them in other Congregations in these countries this I answer That seeing by the mercie of God we haue seene and forsaken the corruptions yet remayning in the publique Ministration and condition of these Churches if they be all like to these of this Citie we cannot therfore partake with them in such case without declining and Apostasie from the truth which we haue our selues already receiued and professed See here to partake with them in Gods seruice is Apostacy If so in the accessoryes Alas what crime is in the principall It were but Apostasie to heare an English Sermon a Dutch is no lesse Woe is you that you dwell still in Meshech Good men it were not more happy for you then the Church that you were well in heauen No lesse then Apostasie Let no Reader bee appalled at so fearefull a word this is one of the tearmes of Arte familiar to this way Find but any one page of a Duch printed volume without Apostasie Excommunication Commingling Constitution and suspect it not theirs Heresie is not more frequent at Rome then Apostacy at Amsterdam nor Indulgences more ordinary there then here Excommunications Common vse makes terrible thinges easie Their owne Master Sl. for holding with the Dutch Baptisme and read-prayers is acknowledged to be cast our for an Apostate yea their Doctor Mr. Aâ—nsworth is noted with this marke from themselues there is much latitude as happy is in their Apostasie For when Stanshall Mercer and Iacob Iohnson were to be chosen Officers in their Church and exception was taken by some at their Apostacy answere was made It was not such Apostacy as debarred them from office it was but aslippe Iohn Marke whether as Isychius and Theophilact think the blessed Euangelist or some other holy Minister is by the whole Parlour at Amsterdam branded with this same Apostasie who departed indeed but from Paul in his iourney not from Christ in his faith and therefore his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is expounded by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 15. 38. why do we think much to drinke of an Euangelists cuppe Yet let this ignorant Epistler teach his censorious answerer one point of his owne that is the Separatists skill and tell him that hee obiects two crimes to one poore Church which are incompatible want of Constitution and Apostasie Thus writes your Master of vs If it were admitted which can neuer bee proued that they sometimes had beene true established Churches Loe here we neuer had true Constitution therefore we are not capable of Apostasie If we once had it and so were true Churches heare what your Pastor saith As Christ giueth to all true Churches their being so wee must leaue it vnto him to take it away when and as he pleaseth And therefore since he hath not remoued his Candlesticke nor taken away his Kingdome in spight of all obiected Apostasies we still continue so and by consequent your separation vpon this ground is most vniust An Apostate had wont to bee the fearefull surname of damned Iulian Tortus was an easie accusar to whom yet we may say with Elihu Num dicis regi Apostata Behold now so many Apostates as men Holy Cyprian describes him by forsaking Christs colors taking vp arms for Gentilisme in life or herefie in iudgment And Augustine telles vs there cannot bee a greater sinne then Apostasie making else-where this sinner
negatiues outward force takes away both sinne and blame and alters them from the patient to the actor so that now you see your straight bonds if they were such loosed by obedience and ouer-ruling power SECTION XIX The bonds of Gods word vniustly pleaded by the Separ BVT what bonds were these straight ones Gods word and your owne necessity Both strong and indissoluble where God hath bidden God forbid that we should care for the forbiddance of men I reuerence from my soule so doth our Church their deare Sister those worthy forraine Churches which haue chosen and followed those formes of outward gouernment that are euery way fittest for their owne condition It is enough for your Sect to censure them I touch nothing common to them with you While the world standeth where will it euer be shewed out of the sacred booke of God that hee hath charged Let there be perpetuall Lay-Elders in euery Congregation Let euery Assembly haue a Pastor and Doctor distinct in their charge and offices Let all decisions excommunications ordinations be performed by the whole multitude Let priuate Christians aboue the first turne in extremity agree to set ouer themselues a Pastor chosen from amongst them and receiue him with prayer and vnlesse that ceremony be turned to pompe and superstition by imposition of hands Let there be Widdowers which you call relieuers appointed euery where to the Church-seruice Let certaine discreete and able men which are not Ministers be appointed to preach the Gospell and whole truth of God to the people All the learned Diuines of other Churches are in these left yea in the most of them censured by you Hath God spoken these things to you alone Pleade not Reuelations and wee feare you not Pardon so homely an example As soone and by the same illumination shal G. Iohns proue to your Consistory the lace of the Pastors wiues sleeue or rings or Whale-bones or other amongst you as your Pastor confesseth knit stockings or Cork-shooes forbidden flatly by Scriptures as these commanded We see the letter of the Scriptures with you you shall fetch blood of them with strayning ere you shal wring out this seÌ„se No no M. R. neuer make God your stale Many of your ordinances came from no â—ier then your own braine Others of them though God acknowledges yet he imposed not Pretend what you will These are but the cords of your owne conceit not bonds of Christian obedience SECTION XX. The necessity of their pretended Ordinances THE first of these then is easily vntwisted your second is necessity Then which what can bee stronger what law or what remedy is against necessity What we must haue we cannot want Oppose but the publique necessitie to yours your necessity of hauing to the publique necessity of withholding and let one of these necessities like two nailes driue out another So they haue done and your owne necessity as the stronger hath preuailed for that other necessity might bee eluded by flight you haue sought and found else-where what the necessity of our lawes denied and the necessity of your conscience required Beware lest vniustly Sinne is as strong bond to a good heart as impossibility Christians can not doe what they ought not Contrary to the lawes of your Prince and Countrie you haue fledde not onely from vs but from our Communion Either is disobedience no sinne or might you do this euil that good may come of it But what necessity is this simple and absolute or conditional Is there no remedy but you must needes haue such Elders Pastors Doctors Relieuers such Offices such executions Can there be no Church no Christians without them What shall we say of the families of the Patriarkes of the Iewish Congregations vnder the law yea of Christ and his Apostles Either denie them to haue beene visible Churches or shew vs your distinct Offices amongst them But as yet you say they were not Therefore God hath had a true Church thousands of yeares without them Therefore they are not of the essence of the Church You call me to the times since Christ I demand then was there not a worthy Church of God in Hierusalem from the time of Christs Ascension till the election of the seauen Deacons Those hundred and twentie Disciples Act. 1. 15. and three thousand Conuerts Act. 2. 41. Those continuall Troupes that flocked to the Apostles were they no true Church Let the Apostles and Euangelists bee Pastors and Doctors where were their Elders Deacons Relieuers Afterwards when Deacons were ordained yet what news is there of Elders till Act. 11 yet that of Hierusalem was more forward then the rest We will not as you are wont argue from scriptures negatiuely no proofe yet much probability is in Saint Paules silence Hee writes to Rome Corinth and other Churches those his Diuine letters in a sweet Christian ciuility salute euen Ordinary Christians And would hee haue vtterly passed by all mention of these Church-Officers amongst his so precise acknowledgment of lesser titles in others if they had beene ere this ordained yet all these more then true Churches famous some of them rich forward and exemplary Onely the Philippian Church is stiled with Bishops and Deacons but no Elders besides them The Churches of Christ since these if at least you will graunt that Christ had any Church till now haue continued in a recorded succession through many hundreds of yeares Search the Monuments of her Histories Shew vs where euer in particular Congregations all these your necessary Offices as you describe them were either found or required It was therefore a new-no-Necessity that bound you to this course or if you had rather a Necessity of Fallibility If with these God may be well serued he may be well serued without them This is not that Vnum necessarium that Christ commends in Mary you might haue sate still with lesse trouble and more thanks SECTION XXI The enormities of the Church in common BVt besides that we ought to haue had somewhat which we want we haue some what which wee should haue wanted Some yea many Antichristian enormities To say we are absolute and neither want nor abound were the voice of Laodicea or Tyrus in the Prophet Our Church as shee is true so humble and is as farre from arrogating perfection as acknowledging falshood If she haue enormities yet not so many or if many not Antichristian Your Cham hath espied ninety one nakednesses in this his Mother and glories to shewe them All his malice cannot shew one Fundamentall errour and when the foule mouth of your false Martyr hath said all they are but some spottes and blemishes not the old running issues and incurable botches of Egypt The particulars shall plead for themselues These you eschue as hell While you goe on thus vncharitably both alike Doe you hate these more then Master Smith and his faction hates yours His Character shall
be free both in your profession and gift You giue vs to haue renounced many false Doctrins in Popery and to haue imbraced so many truths We take it vntill more You professe where you sticke what you mislike In those foure famous heades which you haue learned by heart from all your predecessors An hatefull Prelacy A deuised Ministery a confused and prophane communion and lastly the intermixture of grieuous errors What if this truth were taught vnder an hatefull Prelacy Suppose it were so Must I not imbrace the truth because I hate the Prelacy What if Israel liue vnder the hatefull Egyptians What if Ieremy liue vnder hatefull Pashur What if the Iewes liue vnder an hateful Priesthood What if the disciples liue vnder hatefull Scribes What are others persons to my profession If I may be freely allowed to be a true professed Christian what care I vnder whose hands But why is our Prelacy hatefull Actiuely to you or passiuely from you In that it hates you Would God you were not more your owne enemies Or rather because you hate it Your hatred is neither any newes nor paine Who or what of ours is not hatefull to you Our Churches Belles Clothes Sacraments Preachings Prayers Singings Catechismes Courts Meetings Burialles Mariages It is maruell that our aire infects not and that our heauen and earth as Optatus said of the Donatists escape your hatred Not the forwardest of our Preachers as you tearme theÌ„ haue found any other entertainment no enemy could be more spightfull I speake it to your shame Rome it selfe in diuers controuersary discourses hath bewrayed lesse gall then Amsterdam The better they are to others you professe they are the worse yea would to God that of Paule were not verified of you hatefull and hating one another But we haue learned that of wise Christians not the measure of hatred should be respected but the desert Dauid is hatred for no cause Michaiah for a good cause Your causes shall be examined in their places onwards it were happy if you hated your owne sinnes more and peace lesse our prelacy would trouble you lesse and you the Church SECTION XXVII The truth and warrant of the Ministery of England FOr our deuised office of Ministery you haue giuen it a true title It was deuised indeed by our Sauiour when he said go teach all Nations and Baptise and performed in continuance when hee gaue some to be Pastors and Teachers and not only the office of Ministery in generall but ours whom hee hath made both able to teach and desirous seperated vs for this cause to the worke vpon due tryall admitted vs ordayned vs by imposition of handes of the Eldershippe and prayer directed vs in the right diuision of the word committed a charge to vs followed our Ministery with power and blessed our labours with gratious successe euen in the hearts of those whose tongues are thus busie to denie the truth of our vocation Behold here the deuised Office of â—our Ministery What can you deuise against this Your Pastor who as his brother writes hopes to worke wonders by his Logicall skill hath killed vs with seuen Arguments which hee professeth the quintessence of his owne and Penryes extractions whereto your Doctor referres vs as absolute I would it were not tedious or worth a Readers labour to see them scanned I protest before God and the world I neuer read more grosse stuffe so boldly and peremptorily faced out so full of Tautologies and beggings of the Question neuer to bee yeelded Let mee yet mention the maine heads of them and for the rest be sory that I may not be endlesse To proue therefore that no communion may be had with the Ministery of the Church of England he vses these seuen Demonstrations First Because it is not that Ministery which Christ gaue and set in his Church Secondly Because it is the ministerie of Antichrists Apostasie Thirdly Because none can communicate with the ministery of England but he worshippes the beasts Image and yeeldeth spirituall subiection to Antichrist Fourthly Because this ministery deriueth not their power and functions from Christ Fiftly Because they minister the holy things of God by vertue of a false spirituall calling Sixthly Because iâ— is a strange ministery not appointed by God in his word Seuenthly Because it is not from heauen but from men Now I beseech thee Christian Reader iudge whether that which this man was wont so oft to obiect to his brother a crack't braine appeare not plainely in this goodly equipage of reasons for what is al this but one and the same thing tumbled seuen times ouer which yet with seuen thousand times babling shall neuer be the more probable That our ministery was not giuen and set in the Church by Christ but Antichristian what is it else to be from men to bee strange to be a false spirituall calling not to bee deriued from Christ to worship the Image of the beast So this great Challenger that hath abridged his nine Arguments to seuen might aswell haue abridged his seuen to one and a halfe Here would haue beene as much substance but lesse glory As for his maine defence First wee may not either haue or expect now in the Church that ministery which Christ set Where are our Apostles prophets Euangelists If we must alwayes looke for the very same administration of the Church which our Sauiour left why doe wee not challenge these extraordinary functions Doe we not rather thinke since it pleased him to beginne with those Offices which should not continue that herein he purposely intended to teach vs that if wee haue the same heauenly busines done we should not be curious in the circumstances of the persons But for those ordinary callings of Pastors and Doctors intended to perpetuity with what forehead can hee denie them to bee in our Church How many haue we that conscionably teach and feede or rather feede by teaching Call them what you please Superintendents that is Bishoppes Prelates Priests Lecturers Parsons Vicars c. If they preach Christ truly vpon true inward abilities vpon a sufficient if not perfect outward vocation such a one let all Histories witnesse for the substance as hath bin euer in the Church since the Apostles times they are Pastors and Doctors allowed by Christ We stand not vpon circumstances and appendances of the fashions of ordination manner of choyce attire titles maintenance but if for substance these be not true Pastors and Doctors Christ had neuer any in his Church since the Apostles left the earth All the difficulty is in our outward calling Let the Reader graunt our graue and learned Bishoppes to be but Christians and this will easily be euinced lawfull euen by their rules For if with them euery plebeian artificer hath power to elect and ordaine by vertue of his Christian profession the act of the worthiest standing for all how
can they deny this right to persons qualified besides common graces with wisedome learning experience authority Eyther their Bishoppricke makes them no Christians a position which of all the world besides this Secte would be hissed at or else their handes imposed are thus farr by their rules of Separatists effectual Now your best course is like to an Hare that runnes backe from whence she was started to flye to your first hold No Church therefore no Ministery So now not the Church hath deuised the Ministery but the Ministery hath deuised the Church I follow you not in that idle Circle Thence you haue beene hunted already But now since I haue giuen account of ours I pray you tell me seriously Who deuised your Office of Ministery I dare say not Christ not his Apostles not their Successors What Church euer in the world can be produced vnlesse in case of extremity for one turn whose conspiring multitude made themselues ministers at pleasure what rule of Christ prescribes it What Reformed Church euer did or doth practise it VVhat example warrants it where haue the inferiors laid hands vpon their Superiors VVhat Congregation of Christendome in all records affoorded you the necessary patterne of an vnteaching Pastor or an vnfeeding Teacher It is an old policy of the faulty to complaine first Certainely there was neuer Popish Legend a more errand deuise of man then some parts of this ministery of yours so much gloried in for sincere correspondence to the first institution SECTION XXVIII Confused Communion of the prophane YOVR scornefull exception at the confused communion of the prophane multitude sauors strong of a Pharisee who thought it sinne to conuerse cum terrae filijs the base vulgar and whose very Phylacteries did say Touch me not for I am cleaner then thou This multitude is prophane you say and this communion confused If some be prophane yet not all for then could be no confusion in the mixture If some be not prophane why do you not loue them as much as you hate the other If all maine truthes be taught amongst some godly some prophane why will you more shunn those prophane then cleaue to those truths and those godly If you haue duely admonished him and detested and bewailed his sinne what is another mans prophanenesse to you If prophanenesse be not punished or confusion be tolerated it is their sinne whome it concerneth to redresse them If the Officers sinne must we runne from the Church It is a famous and pregnant protestation of God by Ezechiell The righteousnesse of the righteous shall be vpon him and the wickednesse of the wicked shall be vpon himself And if the fathers sower Grapes cannot hurt the childrens teeth how much lesse shall the neighbours But whither will you runne from this communion of the prophane The same fault you find with the Dutch and French yea in your owne How well you haue auoided it in your separation let Master White George Iohnson Master Smith be sufficient witnesses whose plentifull reports of your knowne vncleannesses smothered mischiefes malitious proceedings corrupt packings communicating with knowne offenders bolstering of sinns and willing conniuences as they are shamefull to relate so might well haue stopt your mouth from excepting at our confused Communion of the prophane SECTION XXIX Our Errours intermingled with Truth HOw many and grieuous errors are mingled with our Truths shall appeare sufficiently in the sequell If any want let it be the fault of the accuser it is enough for the Church of Amsterdam to haue no errors But ours are grieuous Name them that our shame may be equall to your griefe So many they are and so grieuous that your Martyr when he was vrged to instance could find none but our opinion concerning Christs descent into hell and except hee had ouer-reached not that Call you our Doctrines some generall truthes Looke into our Confessions Apologies Articles and compare them with any with all other Churches and if you finde a more particular found Christian absolute profession of all fundamētall truths in any Church since Christ ascēded into heauen renounce vs as you do we wil seperate vnto you But these truths are not soundly practised Let your Pastor teach you that if errours of practise should be stood vpon there could bee no true Church vpon earth Pull out your owne beame first we willingly yeeld this to be one of your truths that no truth can sanctifie errour That one heresie makes an Hereticke but learne withall that euery error doth not pollute all truthes That there is hay and stubble which may burne yet both the foundation stand and the builder be saued Such is ours at the worst why doe you condemne where God will saue No Scripture is more worne with your tongus and pennes then that of the leauen 1. Cor. 5. 6. If you would compare Christs leauen with Pauls you should satisfie your selfe Christ sayes the kingdome of heauen is as leauen Paule saies grosse sin is leauen Both leauens the whole lumpe neither may be taken precisely but in resemblance not of equalitie as he said well but of qualitie For notwithstanding the leauen of the kingdome some part you grant is vnsanctified So notwithstanding the leauen of sinne some which haue striuen against it to their vtmost are not sowred The leauening in both places must extend onely to whom it is intended the subiects of regeneration in the one the partners of sinne in the other So our Sauiour saith Yee are the salt of the earth Yet too much of the earth is vnseasoned The trueth of the effect must bee regarded in these speeches not the quantity It was enough for Saint Paule to shew them by this similitude that grosse sins where they are tollerated haue a power to infect others whether it be as Hierome interprets it by ill example or by procurement of iudgements and thereupon the incestuous must be cast out All this tends to the excōmunicating of the euill not to the seperating of the good Did euer Paule say if the incestuous be not cast out seperate from the Church Show vs this and wee are yours Else it is a shame for you that you are not ours If Antichrist holde many truths and we but many we must needes bee proud of your prayses We holde all his truths and haue showed you how we hate all his forgeries no lesse then you hate vs Yet the mistery of iniquity is still spun in the Church of England but with a siner threed So fine that the very eyes of your malice cannot see it yet none of our least motes haue escaped you Thankes bee to our good God wee haue the great mistery of godlinesse so fairely and happily spunne amongst vs as all but you blesse God with vs and for vs As soone shall you finde charity and peace in your English Church as heresie in our Church of England SECTION XXX Whether
bread wee kneele no more to the bread then to the Pulpit when we ioyne our prayers with the Ministers But our quarrell is not with them you that can approue their iudgments in dislike might learne to followe them in approbation and peaceable Communion with the Church if there be a galled place you will be sure to light vpon that Your charitie is good whatsoeuer your wisedome be SECTION XXXVII Whether our Ordinary and Seruice-Booke be made Idolles by vs. YET more Idolatry And which is more New and strange such I dare say as wil neuer be found in the two first Commandements Behold here two new Idols Our Ordinary and our Seruice-booke a speaking Idoll and a written Idoll Calecute hath one strange Deity the diuell Siberia many whose people worship euery day what they see first Rome hath many merry Saints but Saint Ordinary and Saint Seruice-booke were neuer heard of till your Canonization In earnest doe you thinke wee make our Ordinary an Idoll what else You kneele deuoutly to him when you receiue either the Oath or absolution This must needs be religious adoration is there no remedie You haue twise kneeled to our Vice-Chauncellour when you were admitted to your degree you haue oft kneeled to your parents and Godfathers to receiue a blessing did you make Idols of them the partie to be ordained kneeles vnder the hand of the presbitery dooth hee religiously adore them Of olde they were wont to kisse the handes of these Bishoppes so they did to Baal God and our Superiours haue had euer one and the same outward gesture Though here not the Agent is so much regarded as the action if your Ordinary would haue suffered you to haue done this peece of Idolatrie you had neuer separated But the true God-Bell and Dragon of England is the humane-Diuine-Seruice-Booke Let vs see what ashes or lumpes of pitch this Daniel brings Wee worship God in and by it as Papists doe by their Images In deed we worship God in and by the prayers contayned in it Why should we not Tell mee why is it more idolatry for a man to worship God in and by a praier read or got by hart then by a praier conceiued I vtter both they are both mine if the heart speake them both feelingly and deuoutly where lies the Idoll In a conceiued prayer is it not possible for a mans thought to stray from his tongue in a prayer learned by heart or read is it not possible for the heart to ioyne with the tongue If I pray therfore in spirit and hartely vtter my desires to God whether in mine owne wordes or borrowed and so made mine what is the offence But say you if the Lord Iesus in his Testament haue not commanded any such Booke it is accursed and abhominable But say I if the Lord Iesus hath not any where forbidden such a booke it is not accursed nor abhominable Shew vs the place where that we may know it with you Nay but I must shew you where the Apostles vsed any such seruice-booke shew you mee where the Apostles baptized in a Basen or where they receiued women to the Lords table for your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Cor. II. will not serue shew me that the Bible was distinguish't into Chapters and verses in the Apostles time shewe mee that they euer celebrated the Sacrament of the Supper at any other time then euening as your Anabaptists now doe shew me that they vsed one prayer before their Sermons alwaies another after that they preached euer vpon a Text where they preached ouer a Table or lastly shewe me where the Apostles vsed that prayer which you made before your last prophecy and a thousand such circumstances What an idle plea is this from the Apostolike times And if I should tell you that Saint Peter celebrated with the Lords prayer you will not beleeue it yet you know the Historie But let the Reader know that your quarrell is not against the matter but against the booke not as they are prayers but as stinted or prescribed Wherein all the world besides your selues are Idolaters Behold all Churches that were or are are partners with vs in this crime Oh Idolatrous Geneua and all French Scottish Danish Dutch Churches All which both haue their set prayers with vs and approue them Quod ad formulam c. as concerning a forme of praâ—ers and rites Ecclesiastical saith reuerend Caluin I do greatly allow that it should bee set and certaine from which it should not bee lawfull for Pastors in their function to depart Iudge now of the spirit of these bold controllers that dare thus condemne all Gods Churches through the world as Idolatrous but since you call for Apostolike examples did not the Apostle Paul vse one set forme of apprecations of benedictions What were these but lesser prayers The quantitie varies not the kinde Will you haue yet auncienter precedents The Priest was appointed of olde to vse a set forme vnder the law Num. 6. 23. so the people Deut. 26. 3. 4 5. c. 15. Both of them a stinted Psalme for the Sabboth Ps. 92. What saith your Doctor to these Because the Lorde saith he gaue formes of prayers and Psalmes therefore the Prelates may Can we thinke that Ieroboam had so slender a reason for his Calues Marke good Reader the shifts of these men This aunswerer calles for examples and will abide no stinting of prayers because we shew no patternes from Scripture We do shew patternes from Scripture and now their Doctor saith God appointed it to them of olde must we therefore doe it So whether we bring examples or none we are condemned But Mast. Doctor whom I beseech you should we follow but God in his own seruices If God haue not appointed it you crie out vpon inuentions if God haue appointed it 〈…〉 we may not follow it shew then where 〈…〉 inioyned an ordinary seruice to himselfe that was not ceremoniall as this plainly is not which should not be a direction for vs But if stinting our prayers be a fault for as yet you meddle not with our blasphemous Collects it is well that the Lords prayer it selfe beareth vs company and is no small part of our Idolatrie VVhich though it were giuen principally as a rule to our prayers yet since the matter is so heauenly aâ—d most wisely framed to the necessity of all Christian hearts to denie that it may be vsed intirely in our Sauiours wordes is no better then a fanaticall curiousnesse yeelde one and all for if the matter be more diuine yet the stint is no lesse faulty This is not the lest part of our patcherie except you vnrip this the rest you cannot But might not God be purely and perfectly worshipped without it Tell mee Might not God bee purely and perfectly worshipped without Churches without houses without garments yea without handes or feete In a word could not God bee purely
with the papists Behold here the groūd of your loude challenge of my ignorance Ignorance of your iudgement and practise Here is my abuse of you of my Reader and how durst I Good words M. R. What I haue erred I will confesse I haue wronged you indeed but in my charity I knew the cause of Brownisme but I knew not you For to say ingenuously I had heard and hoped that your case had beene lesse desperate My intelligence was that in dislike of these ceremonies obtruded and an hopelesnes of future libertie you and your fellowes had made a secession rather then a separation from our Church to a place where you might haue scope to professe and opportunity to inioy your owne conceites whence it was that I tearmed you Ringleaders of the late separation not followers of the first and made your plea against our Church imperfection not falshood I hoped you as not ours so not theirs not ours in place so not quite theirs in pieuish opinion I knew it to be no new thing for men inclining to these fancies to beginne new Churches at Amsterdam seuerall from the rest witnesse the letters of some sometimes yours cited by your owne pastor I knew the former separation and hated it I hoped better of the latter separation and pittyed it My knowledge both of Master Smith whome you followed and your selfe would not let mee thinke of you as you deserued How durst I charge you with that which perhaps you might disauow It was my charity therefore that made my accusations easie it is your vncharitablenes that accuses them of ignorance I knew why a Brownist is a true schismaticke I knew not you were so true a Brownist But why then did I write Taking your seperation at best I knew how iustly I might take occasion by it to disswade from seperation to others good though not to yours Now I know you better or worse rather I thinke you heare more Forgiue me my charity and make the worst of my ignorance I knew that this separation which now I know yours stands vpon foure grounds as some beast vpon foure feete First God worshipped after a false manner Secondly Prophane multitude receiued Thirdly Antichristian Ministery imposed Fourthly subiection to Antichristian Gouernement The ceremonies are but as some one paw in euery foote yet if wee extend the word to the largest vse diuiding all Religion into ceremonie and substance I may yet and do auerre that your separation is meerely grounded vppon Ceremonies SECTION XLVIII Estimation of Ceremonies and subiection to the Prelates AND touching ceremonies you refused them formerly but not long and when you did refuse them you knew not wherefore for immediately before your suspension you acknowledged them to be things indifferent and for matter of scandall by them you had not informed your selfe by your own confession of a whole quarter of a yeare after Why refused you then but as the Poet made his playes to please the people or as Simon Magus was baptized for company But refusing them you submitted to the Prelates spirituall Iurisdiction there was your crime this was your Camell the other your Gnats Did euer any Prelate challenge spirituall rule ouer your conscience This they all appropriate to the great Bishoppe of our soules and if other graunt them as your malice faineth what sinne is it to be the subiect of a Tyrant now vpon more grace refusing the Prelacy you haue branded the ceremonies So you did before your separation Tell vs how long was it after your suspension and before your departure that you could haue beene content vpon condition to haue worne this linnen badge of your man of sinne Was not this your resolution when you went from Norwich to Lincoln-shire after your suspension Denie it not my witnesses are too strong But let vs take you as you are these ceremonies though too vile for you yet are good enough for our Ministers of England As if you said Lord I thanke thee I am not as this Publican Why for our Ministers Because those are the Liueries and these the sworne seruants of the Antichristian Bishoppes We haue indeede sworne obedience to our Ordinarie in honest and lawfull commaundements but seruice to Christ But dooth all obedience imply seruitude This obedience is as to spirituall Fathers not to Masters yet so are wee the seruants of Christ that we are ready to giue our seruice to the least of his Saints Thus vile will wee be for God How much more to those whom God hath made as Hierom saies Principes Ecclesiae whiles they command for God What doe we herein but that which Epiphanius vrged of olde against Aerius What but the same which Ignatius that holy and old Martyr requires not once of all Presbyters and offers the ingagement of his owne soule for vs in this acte As for our ceremonies aggrauate them how you can for your aduantage they are but ceremonies to vs and such as wherein we put no holinesse but order decency conuenience But they are preferred you say in our Church before the preaching of the Gospell A most wrongfull vntruth VVee holde preaching an essentiall part of Gods seruice ceremonies none at all The Gospell preached we holde the life and soule of the Church Ceremonies eyther the Garment or the lace of the Garment The Gospell preached we hold the Foundation and VVals Ceremonies hardly so much as Reede or Tile But how then say you haue they ouerturned our best builders This is a word of rare fauor I had thought you had held vs all ruiners not builders Or if builders of Babel not of Hierusalem in which worke the best builders are the worst Those whose hand hath beene in this act would tel you that not so much the Ceremonies are stood vpon as obedience If God please to trie Adam but with an Apple it is enough VVhat doe we quarrel at the value of the fruit when we haue a prohibition Shimei is slaine what merely for going out of the Citie the act was little the bond was great what is commaunded matters not so much as by whom insult not wee may thanke your outrage for this losse For your retortion of my Zoar and Sodome I can giue you leaue to be wittie you vse it so seldome but when you haue played with the allusion what you list I must tell you that hee which will needes vrge a Comparison to goe on foure feete is not worthy to goe vpon two Zoar was neere to Sodome not part of it Zoar was reserued when Sodome was destroyed Zoars neerenesse to the place where Sodome stood needed not haue giuen Lot cause of remoueall Zoar might safely haue beene the harbour of Lot his feare was for want of faith God promised him and the place security the far-fetcht application therfore of the wickednesse of Zoar to our Ceremonies might wel haue been forborne and kept to your selfe much lesse needed you
as cleane as yours is schismaticall if you should measure faculties by their exercise Naturall rest should be the greatest enemie to vertue and the solitarie Christian should be miserable This power of ours is not dead but sleepeth When it awaketh vnto more frequent vse which we earnestly pray for looke you for the first handsell of it None can be more worthy as it is we offend not more in defect then you in excesse Of whom that your Lazarello of Amsterdam G. I. could say that you haue excommunications as ready as a Prelate hath a prison Christ is in many that feele him not but wee want not the power onely but the presence of Christ How so He was with vs while you were here Did he depart with you will the separatists engrosse our Sauiour to themselues and as Cyprian said of Pupianus goe to heauen alone yea confine the God of heauen to Amsterdam What insolence in this we haue him in his Word wee haue him in his Sacraments we haue him in our hearts we haue him in our profession yet this enemie dare say we want him Wherein I suppose in our censures VVe haue Peters keyes as his true successours both in office and doctrine our fault is that we vse them not as you would VVhat Church doth so your first Martyr doth as zealously inueigh against the practise of Geneua and all other reformed Congregations in this point as against vs both for the wooden dagger as he termes it of suspension and for their Consistoriall excommunications VVoe were to all the world if Christ should limit his presence onely to your fashions Heere you found him and heere you left him VVould to God wee did no more grieue him with our sinnes then you please him in your presumptuous censures in the rest you raile against our Prelates and vs Can any man think that Christ hath left peaceable spirits to goe dwell with railers Indeed yours is free-hold so you wold haue it free from subiection free from obedience This is loosenesse more then liberty You haue broken the bonds and cast the cordes from you but you miscall our Tenure VVe hate villenage no lesse then you hate peace and hold in capite of him that is the head of his body the Church vnder whose easie yoake wee doe willingly stoope in a sweet Christian freedome abhorring and reprouing and therefore notwithstanding our personall communion auoiding all abhominations In these two respects therefore of our confusion and bondage wee haue well seene in this discourse how iustly your Sion accounts vs Babylon since it is apparent for the one that here is neither confusion nor Babylonish nor without separation For the other no bondage no seruility Our Prelats being our Fathers not our Masters and if Lords for their external dignity yet not Lords of our Faith and if both these your respects were so yet so long as we doe inviolably hold the foundation both directly and by necessary sequell any railer may terme vs but no Seperatist shall proue vs Babylon you may flye whether you list would God yet further vnlesse you had more loue SECTION LII The view of the sinnes and disorders of others whereupon obiected and how farre it should affect vs. I Neede no better Analyser then your selfe saue that you doe not onely resolue my parts but adde more whereas euery motion hath a double terme from whence and whither both these could not but fall into our discourse hauing therefore formerly expostulated with you for your since you will so terme it impiety in forsaking a ceremonious Babylon of your owne making in England I thought it not vnfit to compare your choice with your refusall England with Amsterdam which it pleaseth you to intitle a substantiall Babylon impiety and madnes are titles of your owne choice let your guiltinesse be your owne accuser The truth is my charity and your vncharitablenes haue caused vs to mistake each other my charity thus Hearing both at Middleburgh and here that certaine companies from the parts of Nottingham and Lincolne whose Harbinger had beene newly in Zeland before me meant to retyre themselues to Amsterdam for their full libertie not for the full approbation of your Church not fauouring your maine opinions but emulating your freedome in too much hate of our ceremonies and too much accordance to some grounds of your hatred I hoped you had beene one of their guides both because Lincoln-shire was your Country and Master Smith your Oracle and Generall Not daring therefore to charge you with perfect Brownisme what could I thinke might bee a greater motiue to this your supposed change then the view of our so oft proclaimed wickednesse and the hope of lesse cause of offence in those forraine parts this I vrged fearing to goe deeper then I might bee sure to warrant Now comes my charitable answerer and imputes this easines of my challenge to my ignorance and therefore will needes perswade his Christian reader that I knew nothing of the first separation because I obiected so little to the second It were strange if I should thinke you gather Churches there by Town-rowes as we in England who know that some one prison might hold all your refined flocke you gathered here by Hedge-rowes but there it is easier to tell how you diuide then how you gather let your Church be an intire body inioying her owne spirituall communion yet if it be not a corrasiue to your heart to conuerse in the same streetes and to be ranged in the same Towne-rowes with Iewes Arians Anabaptists c. you are no whit of kinne to him that vexed his righteous soule with the vncleanenesses of foule Sodom That good man had nothing but ciuill society with those impure neighbours he differed from them in Religion in practise yet could hee not so carelesly turne off this torment His house was Gods Church wherein they had the spirituall communion of the Saints yet whiles the Citie was so vncleane his heart was vnquiet We may you graunt haue ciuill society with ill men spirituall communion onely with Saints Those must be accounted the world these onely the Church your owne allegations shall condemne you They are not of the world saith Christ as I am not of the world Both Christ and they were partes of the Iewish Church The Iewish Church was not so sanctified but the most were extreamely vncleane therefore wee may bee partes of a visible vnsanctified Church and yet be separate from the world Saint Paul writes to his Corinthians sanctified in Christ Saints by calling True but not long after he can say ye are yet carnall In his second Epistle Come out saith he from among them But from whom From Infidels by profession not corrupted Christians SECTION LIII The nearenesse of the State and Church and the great errours found by the Separatists in the French and Dutch Churches THE Church and State if they be two
remaines but they be our fellow-Heathens and Publicanes And not they alone but all reformed Churches besides in Christendome which doe ioyntly partake in all these except one or two personall abhominations will you neuer leaue til you haue wrangled your selues out of the world But now I feare I haue drawne you to say that the hellish impieties both in the Citie and Church of Amsterdam are but frogges lyce flies moraine and other Egiptian plagues not preiudicing your Goshen Say so if you dare I feare they would soone make the Ocean your redde Sea and Virginia your Wildernesse The Church is Noahs Arke which gaue safetie to her Guests whereof ye are part but remember that it had vncleane beasts also and some sauage If the waues drowne you not yet me thinkes you should complaine of noysome society Sathans throne could not preiudice the Church of Pergamus but did not the Balaamites the Nicolaitanes Yet their heauenly communion stood and the Angell is sent away with but threates SECTION LIIII Conuersation with the world AS it were madnesse to denie that the Church should conuerse with the world in the affaires thereof So to denie her Communion in Gods holy things with any of those of the world which professe Christianity as yet vncensured is a point of Anabaptisticall Apostasie such of the world are still of the Church As my censure cannot eiect them so their sinne after my priuate endeuor of redresse cannot defile me I speake of priuate Communicants If an vnbidden Guest come with a ragged garment and vnwashen hands shall I forbeare Gods heauenly dainties The Master of the feast can say Friend how cam'st thou in hither not Friendes why came you hither with such a Guest God biddes me come he hath imposed this necessity neuer allowed this excuse My teeth shall not bee set on edge with the sower grapes of others If the Church cast not out the knowne vnworthy the sinne is hers If a man will come vnworthy the sinne is his But if I come not because he comes the sinne is mine I shall not answer for that others sinne I shall answere for mine owne neglect An other mans fault cannot dispence with my duetie SECTION LV. The impure mixtures of the Church of England AS there is no element which is not through many mixtures departed from the first simplicitie So no Church euer breathed in so pure an Ayre as that it might not iustly complaine of some thicke and vnwholsome euaporations of errour and sinne If you challenge an immunity you are herein the true broode of the auncient Puritanes But if too many sinnes in practise haue thickened the Ayre of our Church yet not one heresie that smoake of the bottomlesse pit hath neuer corrupted it and therefore iustly may I auerre that here you might drawe in the cleare Ayre of the Gospell No wherevpon earth more freely And if this be but the opinion of custome you whom absence hath helped with a more nice and dainty sent speake your worst Shew vs our heresies and shame vs you haue done it and behold foure maine infections of our English ayre The first the smoake of our Canons Wittily I feare the great Ordinances of the Church haue troubled you more with the blow then the smoake For you tell vs of their Plantation against the Kingdome of Christ What Kingdome The Visible Church Which is that Not the Reformedst peece of ours whole best are but Goats and Swine Not the close Nicodemians of your owne Sect amongst vs which would be loath to be visible Not forrainers to them they extend not None therefore in all the world but the English Parlour-full at Amsterdam Can there be any truer Donatisme Crie you still out of their poysoning the Ayre We hold it the best clensed by the batteries of your idle fancies by ridding you from our Ayre and by making this your Church inuisible to vs smart you thus till we complaine The second is the plague or Leprosie of sinne vnshut vp and vncouered Wee knowe that sinne is as ill as the Diuill can make it a most loathsome thing in the eies of God and his Angels and Saints and we grant to our griefe that among so many millions of men there may be found some thousands of Lepers Good lawes and censures meete with some others escape It is not so much our fault as our griefe But that this Leprosie infects all persons and things is shamefully ouer-reach't Plague and Leprosie haue their limits beyond which is no contagion If a man come not neare them if hee take the winde in an open ayre they infect not such is sinne It can infect none but the guiltie Those which acte or assent to or bear with it or detest it not are in this pollution But those which can mourne for it and cannot redresse it are free from infection How many foule Lepers spiritually did our Sauiour see in the publique Ayre of the Iewish Church wherewith yet he ioyned and his not fearing infection so much as gracing the remnants of their ruinous Church Were those seuen thousand Israelites whose knees bowed not to Baal infected with the Idolatrie of their neighbours yet continued they still partes of the same Church But this yet exceedes Not onely all persons but all thinges What Our Gospell Our heauen earth Sea Our Bookes Coyne Commodities Beholde you see the same heauen with vs you haue no Bibles but ours our Ayre in his circular motion comes to bee yours the water that washeth our Iland perhappes washeth your handes Our vncleane Siluer I feare maintaines you Our Commodities in parte inrich your Land-lords and yet all things amongst vs infected you are content to take some euil from your neighbors The third is our blasting Hierarchie which suffers no good thing that is no Brownist no singular fancy for what good things haue we but yours to grow or prosper amongst vs but withers all both budde and branch would to God the root also The last is the daily sacrifice of a seruice-booke an incense how euer vnsauorie to you yet such as all Churches in Christendome hold sweete and offer vp as fitte for the nostrils of the Almightie we are not alone thus tainted al Christian Churches that are or haue bin present the same Censers vnto God But ours smels strong of the Popes Portuise See whether this be any better then triuiall cauilling If either an ill man or a Diuill shall speake that which is good may not a good man vse it If a good Angell or man shall speake that which is euill is it euer the better for the Deliuerer If Sathan himselfe shall say of Christ Thou art the sonne of the liuing God shall I feare to repeate it Not the Authour but the matter in these things is worthie of regard As Ierome speakes of the poysoned workes of Origen and other dangerous
Treatisours Good things may be receiued from ill handes If the matter of any prayer be Popish fault it for what it containes not for whence it came what say you against vs in this more then Master Smith your stout Anabaptist saith of our baptizing of Infants Both of them equally condemned for Antichristian Still therefore wee boast of the free and cleare ayre of the Gospell if it be annoyed with some practicall euils we may be foule the Gospel is it selfe and our profession holy neither can we complaine of all euils while we want you SECTION LVI The iudgement of our owne and our neighbours of our Church THat which followeth is but wordes a short answere is too much That all Christendome magnifies the worthinesse of our Church in so cleare euidences of their own voyces you cannot denie and now when you see such testimonies abroad lest you should say nothing you fetch cauils from home Those men which you say complaine so much of their miserable condition vnder the Prelates impositions haue notwithstanding with the same pens and tongues not onely iustified our Church but extold it you haue found no sharper aduersaries in this verie accusation for which you malitiously cyte them How freely how sully haue they euinced the truth yea the happinesse of the Church of England against your false challenges and yet your forehead dare challenge them for Authors So hath their moderation opposed some appendances that they haue both acknowledged and defended the substance with equall vehemence to your opposition neither doe they suffer as you traduce them for seeking another Church-gouernement looke into the Millenaries petition the common voyce of that part I am deceiued if ought of their complaints sound that way much lesse of their sufferings deformitie in practise is obiected to them not indeuour of innouation That quarrell hath beene long silent your motion cannot reuiue it would God you could as much follow those men in moderate and charitable carriage as you haue out-run them in complaint It pleaseth you to deuise vs like pictures vpon course Canuasse which shew fairest at farthest attributing forraine approbation which you cannot denie to distance more then to desert How is it then that besides strange witnesses we which looke vpon this face without preiudice commend it God knowes without flatterie we can at once acknowledge her infirmities and blesse God for her graces Our neighbours yea our selues of Scotland know our Church so well that they doe with one consent praise her for one of Gods best daughters neither doe the most rigorous amongst them more dislike our Episcopall Gouernement then embrace our Church what fraud is this to flie from the Church in common to one circumstance wee can honour that noble Church in Scotland may we not dislike their alienations of Church-liuings If one thing offend doe all displease Yet euen this Gouernment which you would haue them resist to bonds and banishment who knowes not begins to find both fauour and place what choice other Churches would make as you doubt not so you care not If you regarded their sentence How durst your reuile her as a false harlot whom they honour as a deere sister If you were more theirs then we you might vpbraide vs Now you tell vs what perhaps they would doe we tell you what they doe and will doe Euen with one voyce blesse God for England as the most famous and flourishing Church in Christendome your handfull onely makes faces and enuies this true glorie Who yet you say despise not our graces no more then we those of Rome See how you despise vs while you say you are free from despight How malicious is this Comparison as if we were to you as Rome to vs and yet you despise vs more Wee graunt Rome a true Baptisme true Visibilitie of a Church though monstrously corrupted you giue not vs so much Thankes be to God wee care lesse for your censure then you doe for our Church We haue by Gods mercy the true and right vse of the word and Sacraments and all other essentiall giftes and graces of God if there might bee some further helpes in execution to make these more effectual we resist not But those your other imaginary ordinances as wee haue not so wee want not Neither the Chaldeans nor any Idolatrous enemies could make Sion Babylon nor the holy vessels prophane so as they should cease to be fitte for Gods vse but they were brought backe at the returne of the captiuitie to Ierusalem Such were our worshippe ministery Sacraments and those manifold subiects of your cauils which whiles you disgrace for their former abuse you call our good euill and willingly despise our graces SECTION LVII The issue of Separation ALL the sequell of my answerer is meerely sententious it is fitter for vs to learne then replie Where the truth gaines say you God looseth not I tell you againe where God looseth the truth gaineth not and where the Church looseth God which indowed her cannot but loose Alas what can the truth either get or saue by such vnkinde quarrels Surely suspicion on some handes on others reiection for as Optatus of his Donatists Betwixt our Licet and your Non licet many poore soules wauer and doubt neither will settle because wee agree not Thankes are not lost where new fauours are called for but where olde are denied while your Posie is Such as the mother such is the daughter where are our olde our any mercies They are vnthankfull which know what God hath done and confesse it not They are vnfaithfull to God and his Deputie which knowing themselues made to obey presume to ouer-rule and vpon their priuate authoritie obtrude to the Church those ordinances to bee obserued which neuer had being but in their owne idle speculation Your Sequestration and our confusion are both of them beneficial where they should not and as you pretend our confusion for the cause of your Separation So is your Separation the true cause of too much trouble and confusion in the Church Your odious tale of commixture hath cloyed and surfeited your reader already and receiued aunswere to satietie This one dish so oft brought foorth argues your pouertie The visible Church is Gods drag-net and field and floore and Arke here will be euer at her best sedge tares chaffe vncleane Creatures yet is this no pretence for her neglect The notoriously euill she casts from her brest and knee denying them the vse of her prayers and which your leaders mislike of her Sacrament If diuers through corruption of vnfaithfull officers escape censure yet let not the transgressions of some redound to the condemnation of the whole Church In Gods iudgement it shall not wee care little if in yours Wee tell wicked men they may goe to hell-with the water of Baptisme in their faces with the Church in their mouthes we denounce Gods iudgements vnpartially against their sinnes
4. 41. Rom. 1. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Thess. vlt. ad fin Iere. 15. 19. Vide Tremel Iun. Num. 16. Mat. 15. ad fin 2. Chro. 19 2. 1. Cor. 6. ad fin Nulla cum malis Conuivia vel colloquia misceantur simusque ab ijs tam separati quam sunt illi ab Ecclesia Dei profugi Cypr. l. 1. Epist. ad Cornel. 2. Char act of Beast praef Iohns Inquir Ioh. 6. 68. H. Cl. Epistle before Treatis of sinne ag Holy Gh. Neque propter paleam relinquim are am Domini neque propter pisces malos rumpimus retia Domini August Ep. 48. Answ. Counterpoyson p. 2. Counter p. p. 7 8. c Sep. The separation we haue made in respect of our knowledge and obedience is indeed late and new yet is it in the nature and causes thereof as auncient as the Gospell which was first founded in the enmity which God himselfe put betwixt the seede of the woman and the seede of the serpent Gen. 3 15 â—useb hâ—st Eccl Hen Steph. Apâ—l Herod Foâ— Aâ—t monum H. N. his booke Gal. 1. 6. Eph. 6. 17. Colos. 1 5. 1. Tin 1. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sep. Which enmity hath not onely beene successiuely continued but also visibly manifested by the actuall separation of all true Churches from the world in their collection and constitution before the law vnder the law and vnder the Gospell Gen. 4 13 14 16 6. 1 2 7 1 7. with 1 Pet 3 20 21 12. 2 Iâ—â— 20 24 26 Neh 9 2 Ioh 17 14 16 Act. 2 40 19 9 1 Cor 6 17 Iren. de Valentin l. 1. Ianumerabilâ— multitudinâ—m scripturarum quas ipsi sinâ—erunt afferunt ad stuporem insensatorum Vid. Preface to Master Iacobs and Iohnsons Confer Barr. pass Descript of true visib Ch Nihil autem â—irum fi ex ipsius instrumento aâ—tentur argumenta cum oporteat haereses esse quae esse non possent si non perperam scripturae intelligi possent Tertull. de resur Ibid So Barrow tearmes Mast. Gyff Reâ—ut p. 102. Si Christianus Iudaicae praeuaricanti carnaliter coniungatur a commumone Ecclesiaesegregetur Dist. 28. q. 1 Caue cap. si quis Iudaicae c. 1. Pet. 3. 19. 2. Pet. 2. 5. Sep. Which separation the Church of England neither hath made nor doth make but stands actually one with althat part of the world within the kingdom without separation for which cause amongst others we haue chosen by the grace of God rather to separate our selues to the Lord from it then with it from him in the visible constitution of it In his Preface to the Reader and in his causes of separ defended p. 4 Eiusdem p. 10 Resutat of M. Gyff p 22. 2. Transgress p 51 52. 55. 66 70. 85. 86. c. Inconstancâ— of Brown p. â—o Inquiry into M. White confessed by Fr. Iohnson p. 63. Passag 'twixt Clifton and Smith And concerning the constitution of the Churches c. But the constituting of Churches now after the defection of Antichrist may more properly be called a repairing then a constituting c. p. 60. psal 106. Matth. 23. Reuel 34. Reuel â— 24. Bar. p. 22. 55. Fr. Iohns ag M. H. Act. Mon. passim Troubl and excom pa. 191 M. Spr. p. 1. Fr. Iun. lib. de Eccles. Ratihabitio retrohaâ—â— c. Subsequens consensus Iacob in Leam fecit cos coniuges d. 29. q 1. S. sed obijcitur Barr. ag Gyff H. Answ. Counter p. p. 17â— Colos. 2. 5. Tertull. de Prescript Tu vt homo extrimsecus vitumquemque nosti putas quod vides vides autem quonsque oculos habes sed oculi Domini sunt alti Homo in faciem Deus in praecordiae contemplatur Principles inferences concerning the visible Ch. An. 1607 p 13 Part of Constitution how farr requisite and whether hindred by Constraint D. 〈…〉 Brownists Brow◠〈◊〉 of true Christians Inquir into M. White Answ. ibid. Arist. Pol. 3 c 1. Arist. Pol 3 c. 1 Edesius Frumentius pueri a Meropio Tyrio-Philosophâ— in Indian deportati postea ibi Christianam religionem plantarunt Ruffin l. 1. â— 9. Faemina iâ—ter Iberos 2. Chron. 33. 16 2. Chr. 34. 32. 33 2. Chron. â—5 13 Barr. ag Ciff Brow Reform without tarry Greene wood Confer with Cooper Brow refor without tar Confer with D. And M. Hutch Confer with D. An. Refor without tar Ber. Fides Suadenda non cogenda Counterpois Dixit Paterfamilias seruis Quoscunque inueneritis cogite intrare c. Aug. â—p 48. Pless de Eccles. c. 10 Augustin Quod si cogiper legem aliquem vel ad bona licuisset vos ipsi miseri 〈◊〉 nobis ad fidem purissimam cogi debuistis sed absit a nostra conscientia vt ad 〈…〉 August Epist. 48. 〈◊〉 68. Qui freneticum ligat qui 〈…〉 Quod 〈◊〉 umus sanctum est Bar. and Greenew pasâ—im H. answ Counterp Act Monum Edit 5. p. 1180. Counterp 226. P. Martyr P. Fagius Bucer c. Sixe Arti. 1547 Pag. 1182. Col. 2. 60. Act. Monum Pag. 999. 1000. Act Monum Edit 5. p. 1002. Bar. ag Gyff Conference with Sperin M. Egerton Greenw Bar. Arg. to M. Car. twr M. Trauers M. Chark Browne Reform without tarrying M. Smith ag R. Clifton Principl Iâ—fer pag. 11. Separ To the Title of Ring-leader wherewith it pleaseth this Pistler to stile me I answere that if the thing I haue done be good it is good and commendable to haue beene forward in it if it be euill let it be reproued by the light of Gods word and that God to whom I haue done that I haue done will I doubt not giue me both to see and to heale mine errour by speedy repentance if I haue fledde away on foote I shall returne on Horse-backe But as I durst neuer sâ—t foote into this way but vpon a most sound and vnresist able conuiction of conscience by the word Ier. 23. 32. Ezech. 13. 2. of God as I was perswaded so must my retyring be wrought by more solide reasons from the same word then are to be found in a thousand such pretty pamphlets and formall flourishes as this is Pro. 9. 21. Separ Your pitying of vs and sorrowing for vs especially for the wrong done by vs were in you commendable affections if by vs iustly occasioâ—ed but if your Church bee deepelye drencht in Apostacie and you crie Peace Peace when suddaine and certaine desolation is at hand it is you that do wrong though you make the complaint and so being cruell towards your selues your owne whome you flatter you cannot be truely pitifull towards others whom you bewaile A Treatise of the Ministery of England against M. H pag. 125. H. Amsworth in his fore-speech to his Count. Inqu into VVh Tertul. l. de Orat Tert. l. de praescript So de Virginib Veland That no continâ—ance of time can prejudice
Tâ—uth Sime reprehendas errantem patere me quae so errare cum talibus Aug. Hiâ—r Fr. Iohnsonin his Anâ—w to T. VVh p. 26. Aunsw ag Broughton p. 17 These Dutch Ch. offend not only in practicall disorders but in their Constitution Gouerament wâ—â—sh p c. Troubl and Excom at Amsterd p. 10. Brown charged with it by Barr. Letter to M. Egert â— Iohnson ibid. p. 194. Fr. Iohnson Inq. Act. 15. 38. Departing â— not going with them Barr. Pres. to the Separation dâ—fend In his obseruations p. 251. VVe doe not there condemne the parish Assemblies as separated from Christ but trâ—ue them not as yet gathered to Christ. So Conser â—â—th Sperin p. 9. Fr. Iohnson Inquir pag. 36. H. Bar. Obseruat 242. No faults disanull the being of a Church vntill contempt of Gods word be added thereunto after due conuiction The faults errors of a Church may be seuerely reproued and conuinced according to the quality thereof and yet the Church not be condemned N. B. Iob. â—4 19. Vulg. edit Câ—pr Epi ad Cornel. Non est maius pechcaatum quam Apostat are a Deo Aug. in Ps. 18. Prou. 6. 12. Iob 34. 18. Ezec 2. 3. Apocal. 2. 3 Thou hast laboured and not giuen in Tertâ—l de Pat Si hominibus Plaâ—â—tâ—r Dominus offenditur sivero illud entimur laboramus vt 〈◊〉 dco piacere 〈◊〉 maledicta debemus humana contemnere confessed by M. Iohâ—s loc seq Inq. of Th. VVhite p. 65. Gen 49. 7. Sep. But I will not discourage you in this affection least we find few in the same fault the most in stead of pitty and compassion affoording vs nothing but fury and indignation Cypr. de sâ—â—â—plic prael Quid facit in corde Christiano luporum seritas canum rabies August Confess l. 9. c. 9. Qualâ—a solet eructare turgens indigesta discordia Seâ— The first action laid against vs is of vnnaturalnes and ingratitude towards our mother the Church of England for our causelesse separation from her to which vniust accusation and triuiall querimony our most iust defence hath beene and is that to our knowledge we haue done her no wrong we do freely and with all thankfulnesse acknowledge euery good thing she hath and which our selues haue there receiued H. Barr. Praef. to the separ defended Causes of separ def p. 12. Confer with D. Andr. Praef. to separ def Gyff refuted touch Donat. Obseruat of M. H. Bar. p. 239. Fr. Iohns Reas. 9 ag M. Iac. p. 74. Iohns ag M. Iac. Except 3. Nota Bene. Ibid. Counterpoys pag. 127. 131. Barr. Confer With M. Sperm as Bar hims hath written it pag. 9 Fr. Iob. 7. Reas. aga Iac p. 64. G. Iohns Praef. to the Pastor Russin l. 2. Eccl. hist. c 3. Aug. Epist. Possid in vita Aug. Euseb hist. eccl Damnis grauissimis caedibus afficiebant armati diuersis telis Socrates l. 2. c. 22. 30. Cypr. l. 2. Ep. 8. Nouati pater in vico fame mortuns nec postea ab illo sepultus Sic Optat. l. 1. Purpurus Donatista occidit sororis filios c. G. Iohns Discourse of troubles and Excommunications at Amsterdam printed 1603 Ibid. p. 5. Discouery of Brownisme Vid. G. Iohns booke Inq. into Th. VVh Discou Same Epist. p. 15 They say Fiâ—â—a â—ponsae Mihi accusatio etiam vera contra fratrem displâ—cet Hieron aduersus Ruffin Bar. exam before the Archb. and L. Anderson Browne state of Christians d. 39 Qui non habet quod det quomodo det vox Donat. Opta l. 1 Barrow supra Fr. â—â—hns ag M. Iâ—cob p. 41. 〈◊〉 2. Sep. The superabundant grace of God couering and passing by the manifolde enormitiâ—s in that Church wherewith these good things are inseparably commingled and wherein we also through ignorance and infirmity were inwrapp ed. Sep. But what theÌ„ should we still haue continued in sinne that grace might haue abounded If God haue caused a further truth like a light in a darke place to shine in our hearts should wee still haue mingled that light with darkenesse contrary to the Lords owne practise Ge. 1. 4. and expresse precept 2. Cor. 6. 14. Gen. 1. 2. Es. 5. 20. VVoe to them that put darknesse for light Es. 59. 9. Deu. 21. 22 23. Sep. But the Church of England say you is our Mother and so ought not to be auoided But say I we must not so cleaue to holy mother Church as we neglect our heauenly father and his commandements which we know in that estate we could not but transgresse and that heynously and against our consciences not onely in the want of many Christian Ordinances to which we are most straightly bound both by Gods word and our owne necessities Mater Ecclesia mater est etiam matris nostrae Aug. Ep. 38. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nemo per exteriorem violentiam corrumpitur si interior innocentia custodiatur c. â— q. 3. Custodi c. Ad docendum populum Israeliticum omnipotens deus prophetis praeconium dedi non regibus imperauit Aug. l. 2. contr Gau. c. 11. Barr. causes of scpera def p. 6. Brow Reform without tarrying Aug. contr Petilia n. l. 2. Optatus Mileuit lib. 3â— Barr. 2. Exaâ—â—iâ— nation before the L. Archb. and L. Chiefe-Iustice compar with his reply to M. Gyff Art 5. â— Sam. 24. 6. Num. 16. 3. Counter poys p. 230. 2. Chr. 13. 2. Chr. 14. 15 2. Chr. 29. 2. Chr. 30. 2. Chr. 34. Ezr. 2. 3. 2. Ezr. 4. 23. 24 a August Ep. 58 Pastores autem doctores quâ—s maxime vt discernerem voluisti eosdem puto esse sicut tibi visum est vt non alios Pastores alios Doctores intelligeremus sed ideo cum praedixisset Pastores subiunxisse Doctores vt intelligerent Pastores ad officium suum pertinere doctrinam Barr. ag Gyff inueighs for this cause against the Consistory of Geneâ—a Fr Iohns complaints of the Dutch and Fr. Churches Discription of a visible Church cannot make a Distinct. in the Definition of their Offices State of Christians 119. Descript. of vis Ch. H. Clap. Epist before his treatise of sinne ag the holy Ghost Brownists fourth Position Trouble and â—xcom at Amsterdam Fr. Iohns in a Letter to M. Smith Nulla necessitas maior est charitate Hâ—eron Apol. ad Ruff. Fr. Iun. de Eccl. Sed accidunt persaepe tempora quibus aut noua Ecclesia generatur aut altera pars interumpitur scilicet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 et tamen Ecclesia esse non dâ—sinit formà nimirum essentiali adhuc permanente Act 7. beg Cypr. l. 3. Ep. 9. Meminisse diaconi debent quoniam Apostolos id est Episcopos praepositos Dominus elegit Diaconos autem post ascensum Domini in caelos Apostoli sibi constituerunt Episcopatus su Ecclesiae ministros Rom. 1. 8. 1. Cor. 1. 5. 1. Thess. 1. 7. Gal 4. 15. Phil. 1. 2. Sep. But also in our most sinfull subiection to many Antichristian
enormities which we are bound to eschue as hell Fr. Iohns ag M. Iacob Bar. Gyff refuted i. Transgress p. 28. Sep. She is our Mother o may she be and yet not the Lords wife euery mother of children is not a wife Ammi and Ruhaeâ—ah were bidden to plead with their mother Apostate Israel plead that she was not the Lords wife nor he her husband Ho. 2. 1. 2. Cypr. de simpliâ— Praelator Adulterari non potest sponsa Christi incorrupta est Pudica 1. Kin. 12. 29. Hos. 2. 16. 2. 13. Sep. And though you forbid vs a thousand times yet must we plead not to exccuse our fault but to iustify our innocency And that not only nor so much in respect of our selues as of the truth which without sacriledge we maynot suffer to be condeÌ„ned vnheard And if you yet heare her not rather blame yourselues as deafe then vs as dumb Hierom. ad Eustoch Epitaph Paulae ex Psal 67. August contr Epist. Parmen li. 1. Epistol Iuni. ad Separ Giff. refut 2. transg Sep. Is not babylon the mother of Gods people whom he therefore commandeth to depart out of her least being partakers of her sinnes they also partake of her plagues Reuel 18. 2. Answ. forâ— speach to Counter poys Sep. And to conclude what say you more against vs for your mother the Church of England then the Papists do for their mother and your mothers mother the Church of Rome against you whom they condemn as vn-naturall bastards and impious Patricides in your separations from her A Simone Zelota Niceph. Alij a Ios. Arimath cuius hic sepulchrum cernitur Angli Pascha Graeco more celebrarunt Iacob Armin. Disp Cant. 8. 8. Fr. Iun. lib sing de Eccle. Phil. Morn du Plesses Lib. de Eccles. cap. 10. Counterp p. 171. 1. Pâ—nry Exam. before M. Fanshaw Iust. Yong. Fr. Iun. l. de Eccles M. Hooker Eccles. pol. Du Plesses l. de Eccl Iacob Armin. disput D. Reynolds Thes. D. Feild of the Ch. Reuel 3. 2. Sep. And were not Luther Zuingliâ— Cranmer Latimer and the rest begot to the Lord in the wombe of the Romish Church did they not receiue the knowledge of his truth when they stood actuall members of it whoÌ„ notwithstanding afterwards they forsooke and that iustly for her fornications Sep. But here in the name of the Church of England you wash your hands of all Babylonish abominations which you pretend you haue forsaken and her for and with them And in this regard you speake thus The Reformation you haue made of the many and maine corruptions of the Romish Ch. we do ingenuously acknowledge and deâ— withall imbrace with you all the truths which to our knowledge you haue receiued in stead of them But Rome was not built all in a day 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hierom. Apol. aduers. Ruffi 1. l. 1. â—tissa est mihi â—audatio tua id est accusatio mea Bonum ex integra natura malum ex singulari defectu Sep. The mistery of iniquity did aduance it selfe by degrees and as the rise was so must the fall be That man of sinne and lawlesse man must languish and die away of a consumption 2. Thes. 2 8. And what though manie of the highest Towers of Babel and of the strongest Pillers also be demolished pulled down yet may the building stand still though tottering to and fro as it doth and only vnderpropped and vpheld with the shoulder and arme of flesh without which in a very moment it would fall flat vpon and lie leuell with the earth Bar. Gr. ag Giff. Confer Eam passim Peâ—â—y in his exa Sep. You haue renounced many false Doctrines in Popery and in theire placâ—s embraced the truth Exod. 1. 2. 3. c. Ier. 20. 1. Ier. 5. vlt. But what if this truth bee taught vnder the same hatefull Prelacy in the same deuised office of Ministery and confused communion of the prophane multitude and that mingled with many greeuous errors Iohns Pres. to his 7. Reas. Iohns 7. Reas. p. 66. Tit. 3. 4. Psal. 69. 4. Mat 28. 19. Eph. 4. 11. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 3. 1. Act. 13. 1. Tim. 3. 9. 1. Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 15. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Discourse of the Trouble excem at Amst. Certaine Arg. ag the Com. with the Minist of England Counterpoys Vbires convenit quis non verba contemnat August de Ordin 2. Brow state of Christians Perplexae sunt istae duae initates in hoc seculo inuicemque permixtae donec vltimo iudicto dirimantur Aug. de Ciuit. d. l. 1. 33. Eze. 18. 20. Orig. Vnusquisque propter proprium peccatum morietur in proprid iusticiâ viuet c. Fr. Iohns Artic. ag the Dutch Fr. Answ. ag Brough ton Discouer of Brown Troubles and excom at Amst. Charact. pres Cypr. Ep. 2. Iidem in publico accusatores in occulto rei in semetipsos censores pariter nocentes Damnant foris quod intus operantur â—arr Conser with M. Hutchins c. D. â—ndr Sep. Shall some generall truthâ—s yea though few of them in the particulars may bee foundly practised sweeten and sanctifie the other errours doth not one heresie make an hereticke and doth not a little leauen whether in Doctrine or manners leâ—uen the whol lumpe 1. Cor. 5. 6. Gal. 5 9. Hag. 2 13. If Antichrist held not many truthes wherewith should he countenance so many forgeries or how could his work be a mistery of iniquitie which in Rome is more grosse and palpable but in England spun with a finer threed and so more hardly discouered But to wade no further in vniuersalities wee will take a little time to examine such particulars as you your selfe haue picked out for your most aduantage to see whether you bee so cleare of Babels Towers in your owne euidence as you beare the world in hand Inquir into M. white p. 35. Mat. 13. 33. M. Bredwell Hierom. In hoc Ignoratis quia malo exemplo possunt plurimi interire Sed per vnius delictum in omne populum Indaeorum iram dei legimus adue nisse 1. Tim. 3. 16. Sep. Where say you are those proud towers of their Vniuersall Hierarchie One in Lambeth another in Fulham and wheresoeuer a pontificall Prelate is or his Chauncellor Commissary or other subordinate there is a Tower of Babel vnruinated To this end I desire to know of you whether the office of Arch-bishoppes Bishoppes and the rest of that ranke were not parts of that accursed Hierarchie in queene Maries dayes and members of that man of sinne If they were then as shoulders and armes vnder that head the Pope and ouer the inferiour members and haue now the same Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction deriued and continued vpon them wherof they were possessed in the time of Popery as it is plaine they haue by the first Parliament of queene Elizabeth Why are they not still members of that body though the head the Pope be cut off
euening smels so strong of the Popes Portuise as it makes many hundreds amongst your selues stop their noses at it and yet you boast of the free and clear ayre of the Gospell wherin you breath Patres nostri non solum ante Cyprianum vel Agrippinum sed postea saluberrimam consuetudinem tenuerunt vt quicquid diuinum atque legitimum in aliqua haeresi vel schismate integrum reperirent approbarent potius quam negarent August Sep. That all Christendome should so magnifie your happinesse as you say is much and yet your selues and the best amongst you complain so much both in word and writing of your miserable condition vnder the imperious and superstitious impositions of the Prelates yea and suffer so much also vnder them as at this day you do for seeking the same Church-gouernment and Ministery which is in vse in all other Churches saue your owne Socrat. l. 1. c. 4. Constant. Alex. Ario. Ac tamet si vos inter vos vicâ—ssim de re quâ—piam minimi momenti dissentâ—tis siquidem neque omnes de omnibus rebus idem sentimus nihilomâ—nus tanâ— fiâ—ri pâ—terit vt eximia concordia sincerè inter vos integrâ—que sâ—ruâ—tur vna inter omnes communio consociatio custodiatur Sep. The truth is you are best liked where you are worst knowen Your next neighbours of Scotland know your Bishops Gouernment so well as they rather chuse to vndergoe all the miserie of bonds and banishment then to partake with you in your happinesse this way so highly doe they magnifie and applaud the same Which choice I doubt not other Churches also would make if the same necessitie were laid vpon them Sep. And for your graces we despise them not nor any good thing amongst you no more then you doe such graces and good things as are to be found in the Church of Rome from which you separate notwithstanding We haue by Gods mercie the pure and right vse of the good gifts and graces of God in Christs Ordinance which you want Neither the Lords people nor the holy vessels could make Babylon Syon though both the one and the other were captiued for a time Lastly it is thus written and we thus aduised M. Smiths retort vpon M. Cliston p. 50 Sep. Where the truth is a gayner the Lord which is truth cannot be a looser Neither is the thankes of ancient fauours lost amongst them which still presse on towards new mercies Vnthankfull are they vnto the blessed maiestie of God and vnfaithfull also which Inter licet vestrum non licet nostrum nutant ac remigant animae Christianorum Optat contr Parm. Sep. knowing the will of their Master do it not but go on pâ—esumptuously in disobedience to many the holy ordinances of the Lord and of his Christ which they know and in word also acknowledge he hath giuen to his Church to be obserued and not for idle speculation and disputation without obedience It is not by our sequestration but by your confusion that Rome and Hell gaines Sep. Your odious commixture of all sorts of people in the body of your Church in whose lappe the vilest miscreants are dandled sucking her brests as her naturall children and are be-blest by her as hauing right thereunto with all her holy things as prayer sacraments and other ceremonies is that which aduantageth hell in the finall obduration and perdition of the wicked whom by these meanes you flatter and deceiue Non enim propter malos boni desâ—rendi sed propter bonos mali tolerandi sunt c. Sicut tolerauâ—runt Prophetae c. Aug. Ep. 48. Bar. ag Gyff Sep. The Romish Prelacie and Priesthood amongst you with the appurtenances for their maintenance and ministrations are Romes aduantage Which therefore she challengeth as her owne and by which shee also still holdes possession amongst you vnder the hope of regayning her full inheritance at one time or other Sep. And if the Papists take aduantange at our condemnation of you and separation from you it concerns you well to see where the blame is and there to lay it least through light and inconsiderate iudgement you iustifie the wicked and condemne the righteous Sep. And for the suspition of the rude multitude you need not much feare it They will suspect nothing that comes vnder the Kings broad seale they are ignorant of this fault Though it were the masse that came with authoritie of the magistrate they for the most part would be without suspition of it so ignorant and prophane are they in the most places 1 Sam. 10. 10. It is the wise hearted amongst you that suspect your dealings who will also suspect you yet more as your vnfound dealing shall be further discouered Troub excom at Amster G. Iohns professes he found better dealing in the Bâ—shops Consistories and might haue found better in the Inquisition Hieron Cypr. de simplic praelat Ad pacis praemium venâ—re non polerunt qui pacem domini discordiae furore ruperunt Ibid. Inexpiabilis gâ—auis culpa discordiae nec passione purgatur Sep Lastly the terrâ—ble threat you vtter against vs that euen whoredomes and murders shall abide an easier answere then separation would certainly fall heauy vpon vs if this answere were to bee made in your Consistory Courts or before any of your Ecclesiasticall iudges but because we know that not Antichrist but Christ shal be our iudge we are hold vpon the warrant of his word and testament which being sealed with his blood may not bee altered to proclaim to all the world separation froÌ„ whatsoeuer riseth vp rebelliously against the scepter of his kingdome as we are vndoubtedly perswaded the Communion gouernment ministery and worship of the Church of England doe Iohn Robinson