5._o where_o you_o revive_v it_o again_o then_o your_o chearse_v mr._n hooker_n sentence_n and_o there_o sinde_v that_o i_o do_v not_o accord_v with_o he_o if_o not_o than_o i_o pray_v lee_n this_o convince_v you_o that_o you_o have_v not_o speak_v right_o when_o you_o say_v i_o borrow_v my_o ground_n from_o mr._n hooker_n reader_n in_o your_o epist_n to_o the_o reader_n how_o do_v i_o borrow_v my_o ground_n from_o he_o to_o who_o i_o go_v cross_n as_o you_o say_v i_o do_v if_o i_o have_v do_v so_o mr._n hooker_n be_v a_o man_n of_o who_o one_o may_v borrow_v but_o i_o do_v not_o remember_v what_o ground_n i_o borrow_v but_o i_o be_v glad_a when_o i_o see_v so_o learned_a and_o holy_a a_o man_n to_o defend_v some_o thing_n which_o before_o i_o conceive_v be_v right_o but_o as_o to_o this_o difference_n here_o i_o be_o sure_a mr._n hooker_n be_v now_o alive_a in_o england_n he_o will_v not_o baptize_v all_o the_o child_n of_o any_o of_o the_o congregalon_n dâ—â—_n england_n without_o any_o more_o ado_n i_o can_v gather_v so_o much_o out_o of_o his_o book_n and_o therefore_o we_o do_v not_o differ_v in_o this_o then_o you_o come_v to_o my_o first_o premise_v which_o be_v the_o infant_n abstract_v from_o the_o parens_fw-la 3._o page_n 3._o give_v no_o reason_n why_o it_o shall_v be_v baptize_v this_o say_v you_o be_v otherwise_o propound_v by_o mr._n hooker_n then_o it_o be_v unlikely_a to_o be_v borrow_v of_o he_o then_o you_o tell_v i_o it_o be_v not_o right_o propose_v yes_o sir_n very_o right_a it_o be_v ordinary_a with_o divine_n to_o lay_v a_o proposition_n first_o further_o off_o 4._o page_n 4._o then_o to_o come_v near_o neither_o do_v i_o see_v that_o you_o have_v one_o whit_n consure_v it_o but_o yield_v it_o do_v you_o baptize_v any_o child_n in_o your_o parish_n without_o consider_v it_o in_o relation_n to_o a_o parent_n do_v you_o consider_v it_o in_o it_o selse_a abstract_a from_o any_o other_o and_o yet_o baptize_v it_o i_o pray_v make_v a_o argument_n out_o of_o that_o text_n in_o your_o title-page_n mar_n 10.14_o which_o i_o preslime_v you_o bring_v for_o infant_n baptism_n and_o consider_v the_o infant_n alone_o as_o abstract_v from_o the_o parent_n you_o say_v present_o here_o the_o child_n of_o england_n be_v christian_n bear_v how_o by_o reason_n of_o the_o house_n soil_n or_o the_o parent_n then_o it_o be_v a_o christian_a child_n and_o in_o relation_n to_o such_o a_o one_o it_o be_v baptize_v thus_o you_o find_v fault_n with_o mr._n hooker_n but_o if_o you_o will_v cross_v he_o 185._o diatr_n 185._o or_o myself_o who_o be_o not_o worthy_a to_o be_v name_v in_o the_o day_n with_o he_o lay_v down_o this_o proposition_n viz._n the_o infant_n of_o england_n quâ_fw-la sic_fw-la consider_v as_o abstract_v from_o any_o where_o aught_o to_o be_v baptize_v if_o you_o will_v maintain_v this_o than_o i_o confess_v you_o may_v find_v faule_fw-mi for_o your_o second_o answer_n when_o any_o body_n practice_v as_o you_o say_v there_o then_o let_v such_o a_o one_o consider_v it_o you_o may_v have_v spare_v those_o line_n for_o i_o know_v none_o such_o i_o do_v it_o before_o the_o child_n be_v bring_v then_o you_o come_v to_o the_o second_o premise_v the_o child_n be_v baptize_v as_o consider_v in_o relation_n to_o a_o parent_n one_o or_o both_o that_o be_v the_o sum_n you_o say_v m._n hooker_n and_o i_o mean_v the_o tax_v parent_n and_o this_o you_o have_v consure_v large_o that_o be_v your_o meaning_n in_o diatr_n p._n 187._o of_o that_o hereafter_o only_o now_o you_o add_v first_o your_o say_n thin_a ineffect_n be_v the_o same_o with_o the_o former_a one_o the_o negative_a the_o other_o the_o affirmative_a true_a sir_n i_o know_v it_o before_o only_o for_o clearness_n suke_n as_o we_o use_v to_o openiting_n first_o by_o show_v what_o they_o be_v not_o as_o say_v love_n union_n with_o christ_n etc._n etc._n then_o what_o they_o be_v so_o i_o do_v here_o and_o i_o hope_v no_o fault_n in_o so_o do_v second_o you_o tell_v i_o of_o two_o other_o way_n for_o child_n to_o come_v to_o baptism_n beside_o the_o next_o parent_n 5._o page_n 5._o of_o which_o hereafter_o next_o you_o say_v i_o take_v occasion_n to_o desine_fw-la a_o church_n a_o society_n of_o visible_a sain_n join_v together_o by_o way_n of_o covenant_n etc._n etc._n here_o you_o observe_v two_o thing_n 1._o that_o i_o own_v no_o cathelique_n church_n but_o a_o particular_a congregation_n nor_o any_o member_n of_o a_o church_n but_o of_o such_o a_o church_n than_o you_o climb_v of_o a_o man_n be_v a_o member_n only_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o require_v baptism_n for_o his_o child_n 〈◊〉_d for_o a_o catholic_a church_n yes_o i_o own_v it_o neither_o do_v i_o know_v any_o understand_a man_n deny_v it_o but_o i_o doubt_v you_o forget_v one_o word_n you_o mean_v catholic_a visible_a church_n but_o if_o you_o have_v say_v so_o yes_o in_o i_o own_o that_o also_o but_o whether_o it_o be_v one_o organitall_a body_n i_o see_v some_o difficulty_n in_o that_o and_o leave_v in_o for_o further_a time_n to_o discover_v the_o congregationall_a man_n for_o aught_o i_o can_v discern_v own_o it_o so_o as_o nothing_o but_o nor._n and_o exit_fw-la part_v you_o and_o they_o in_o the_o conclusion_n in_o point_n of_o discipline_n i_o know_v for_o adminlstr_n the_o seal_n in_o another_o congregation_n which_o that_o notion_n bring_v in_o there_o some_o congregationall_a man_n differ_v and_o so_o for_o one_o minister_n to_o excommunicate_v in_o another_o congregation_n that_o they_o will_v not_o own_o nor_o do_v you_o but_o upon_o a_o call_n they_o will_v go_v along_o with_o other_o officer_n and_o assist_v they_o in_o clear_v out_o thing_n and_o help_v they_o what_o may_v be_v only_o they_o will_v not_o put_v forth_o such_o power_n against_o such_o to_o who_o they_o be_v no_o officer_n i_o trouble_v not_o these_o holy_a man_n in_o that_o those_o who_o will_v differ_v with_o such_o man_n upon_o these_o point_v i_o think_v do_v not_o well_o the_o other_o part_n do_v not_o concern_v my_o question_n neither_o be_o i_o so_o clear_a in_o it_o as_o i_o wish_v i_o be_v i_o shall_v humble_o propound_v my_o thought_n 1._o if_o a_o man_n must_v first_o be_v a_o member_n of_o a_o particular-visible-church_n before_o he_o can_v be_v of_o the_o catholike-visible-church_n than_o your_o notion_n will_v not_o hold_v but_o the_o antecedent_n be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o consequent_a be_v true_a antec_fw-la i_o prove_v if_o a_o man_n must_v first_o be_v cast_v our_o of_o a_o particular-church_n before_o he_o can_v out_o of_o the_o catholic_a than_o a_o man_n must_v first_o be_v a_o member_n of_o a_o particular_a before_o he_o can_v be_v of_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o the_o antecedent_n be_v true_v 〈◊〉_d ergo._n consequence_n be_v clear_a to_o i_o on_o this_o ground_n else_o i_o can_v see_v how_o he_o who_o be_v cast_v out_o of_o a_o particular_a church_n can_v be_v cast_v out_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n 17._o though_o excommunicate_v unjust_o yet_o till_o case_n be_v hear_v communion_n deny_v council_n saâ—â—ll_n can._n 17._o if_o a_o man_n be_v first_o a_o member_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n and_o by_o virtue_n of_o this_o come_v to_o have_v communion_n with_o all_o other_o church_n this_o latter_a depend_v on_o the_o former_a than_o the_o reason_n be_v clear_a cast_v he_o out_o of_o a_o particular_a church_n you_o cut_v he_o off_o from_o all_o communion_n with_o other_o but_o if_o a_o man_n be_v first_o a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o his_o be_v a_o member_n of_o this_o particular_a church_n depend_v upon_o that_o than_o i_o see_v no_o reason_n for_o though_o you_o have_v cast_v he_o out_o of_o your_o particular_a church_n which_o be_v second_o yet_o his_o membership_n to_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v first_o and_o independent_a upon_o this_o still_o remain_v and_o you_o do_v in_o excommunication_n but_o cast_v he_o into_o that_o state_n he_o be_v in_o before_o he_o join_v to_o you_o so_o that_o still_o he_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o may_v demand_v ordinance_n elsewhere_o other_o church_n deny_v not_o communion_n before_o the_o particular_a do_v of_o which_o he_o be_v a_o member_n than_o they_o follow_v hence_o their_o act_n depefid_v on_o this_o if_o depend_v than_o not_o first_o 2._o this_o seem_v a_o little_a odd_a to_o i_o a_o man_n be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n only_o thence_o he_o will_v require_v baptism_n of_o this_o church_n of_o another_o church_n he_o will_v require_v the_o lord_n supper_n in_o another_o there_o he_o will_v bear_v to_o he_o may_v go_v to_o all_o church_n in_o
and_o out_o of_o he_o i_o will_v give_v you_o a_o answer_n and_o show_v you_o the_o reason_n be_v not_o as_o you_o say_v mr._n hooker_n thus_o the_o faithful_a congregation_n of_o england_n be_v true_a church_n member_n that_o come_v commend_v from_o such_o church_n to_o we_o here_o so_o that_o it_o do_v appear_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n 11._o preface_n p._n 11._o whence_o they_o come_v that_o they_o be_v by_o tâ—em_n approve_v and_o not_o scandalous_a they_o ought_v to_o be_v receive_v to_o church_n communion_n with_o we_o as_o member_n of_o other_o church_n with_o we_o in_o new_a england_n in_o like_a case_n so_o commend_v and_o approve_v hence_o then_o sir_n be_v the_o plain_a reason_n the_o people_n that_o go_v from_o hence_o do_v quite_o depart_v from_o these_o church_n so_o that_o they_o never_o come_v more_o under_o the_o inspection_n of_o the_o officer_n and_o churchâ—s_n here_o they_o nâ—ver_o bâ—ing_v letter_n testimonial_a from_o you_o to_o show_v they_o 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church-fellowship_n with_o we_o and_o thâ—t_o orderly_o though_o we_o have_v no_o explicit_a covenant_n we_o desire_v such_o may_v for_o the_o time_n of_o their_o abode_n with_o you_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n if_o a_o child_n he_o bear_v to_o they_o let_v it_o be_v baptise_v and_o those_o person_n when_o they_o come_v there_o walk_v according_o i_o say_v try_v the_o minister_n there_o and_o i_o dare_v warrant_v you_o such_o person_n shall_v not_o be_v deny_v communion_n though_o you_o have_v not_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n and_o here_o sir_n they_o require_v no_o more_o of_o you_o than_o they_o will_v give_v for_o if_o any_o who_o be_v member_n of_o their_o church_n shall_v come_v over_o from_o they_o hither_o and_o bring_v no_o letter_n of_o recommendation_n to_o the_o church_n here_o show_v that_o they_o be_v member_n with_o they_o there_o and_o walk_v approve_o among_o they_o if_o such_o shall_v require_v the_o lord_n supper_n or_o baptism_n here_o if_o you_o will_v refuse_v they_o unless_o they_o will_v show_v or_o make_v it_o out_o that_o they_o be_v member_n there_o and_o walk_v orderly_a only_o their_o occasion_n call_v they_o hither_o now_o for_o a_o time_n or_o will_v join_v with_o you_o if_o they_o have_v leave_v those_o churches_n the_o church_n there_o will_v not_o be_v displease_v with_o you_o therefore_o the_o member_n that_o come_v from_o thence_o bring_v letter_n of_o recommendation_n with_o they_o show_v what_o i_o have_v say_v before_o and_o desire_v of_o church_n here_o their_o care_n over_o they_o while_o here_o they_o abide_v and_o now_o you_o have_v the_o plain_a reason_n but_o one_o word_n more_o pag._n 29._o you_o speak_v against_o those_o who_o meddle_v with_o other_o minister_n charge_n those_o who_o go_v to_o new_a england_n you_o call_v your_o member_n shall_v then_o the_o minister_n of_o new_a england_n baptize_v and_o excommunicate_a out_o of_o what_o church_n i_o know_v not_o but_o you_o for_o of_o they_o they_o be_v no_o member_n your_o member_n they_o shall_v meddle_v with_o your_o charge_n and_o do_v a_o strange_a act_n to_o excommunicate_v your_o member_n when_o yourself_o do_v not_o this_o be_v more_o than_o classical_a or_o episcopal_a power_n but_o here_o you_o will_v charge_v master_n hooker_n with_o a_o contradiction_n because_o he_o seem_v to_o be_v against_o this_o practice_n that_o member_n of_o one_o congregation_n shall_v partake_v of_o the_o sacrament_n in_o another_o congregation_n have_v mr._n hooker_n live_v to_o have_v file_v over_o his_o work_n again_o i_o do_v believe_v he_o will_v have_v consider_v this_o place_n again_o but_o the_o other_o place_n be_v most_o plain_a yet_o something_o may_v be_v say_v for_o he_o that_o master_n hooker_n shall_v be_v against_o the_o give_n of_o the_o sacrament_n to_o a_o member_n of_o another_o congregation_n who_o have_v occasion_n to_o be_v absent_a from_o his_o owâ—e_n and_o be_v commend_v and_o approve_v by_o his_o own_o church_n this_o i_o can_v believe_v i_o will_v give_v you_o my_o reason_n a_o near_a friend_n of_o i_o in_o new_a england_n live_v divers_a mile_n from_o mr._n hooker_n have_v occasion_n to_o be_v in_o his_o town_n on_o the_o sabbath_n my_o friend_n be_v a_o minister_n i_o can_v tell_v whether_o at_o that_o time_n in_o office_n or_o no_o to_o the_o church_n in_o the_o town_n where_o he_o live_v mr._n hooker_n get_v he_o to_o preach_v in_o the_o forenoon_n in_o his_o church_n at_o that_o time_n there_o be_v a_o sacrament_n in_o the_o church_n my_o friend_n when_o he_o have_v do_v preach_v bâ—ing_v sad_a and_o oppress_v in_o his_o spirit_n go_v down_o out_o of_o the_o desk_n and_o will_v not_o have_v stay_v the_o sacrament_n but_o mr._n hoo_n step_n after_o he_o and_o clap_n hold_v on_o his_o shoulder_n and_o pull_v he_o back_o again_o and_o make_v he_o stay_v the_o sacrament_n my_o friend_n tell_v i_o it_o be_v the_o best_a sacrament_n that_o ever_o he_o enjoy_v this_o practice_n of_o he_o clear_v he_o from_o contradiction_n and_o therefore_o that_o can_v be_v his_o meaning_n this_o than_o i_o presume_v be_v his_o true_a meaning_n it_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o divers_a of_o we_o in_o n._n e._n at_o the_o first_o plant_n we_o do_v join_v ourselves_o to_o this_o or_o that_o church_n afterward_o when_o other_o plantation_n be_v erect_v for_o conveniency_n of_o dwell_v the_o former_a plantation_n be_v too_o full_a we_o will_v remove_v and_o dwell_v there_o retain_v still_o our_o membership_n in_o those_o church_n to_o which_o we_o first_o join_v and_o by_o virtue_n of_o it_o have_v letter_n of_o recommendation_n do_v partake_v of_o the_o sacrament_n in_o those_o church_n where_o we_o live_v and_o hence_o divers_a member_n live_v many_o mile_n twenty_o or_o sixty_o from_o their_o own_o church_n and_o from_o the_o inspection_n of_o those_o officer_n who_o have_v power_n to_o call_v they_o to_o account_v and_o observe_v their_o conversation_n and_o yet_o will_v partake_v of_o the_o sacrament_n six_o or_o eight_o year_n together_o in_o another_o congregation_n this_o indeed_o he_o oppose_v in_o so_o much_o that_o when_o i_o come_v away_o the_o elder_n will_v not_o suffer_v it_o any_o long_o this_o be_v but_o rational_a and_o this_o i_o conceive_v be_v his_o true_a meaning_n here_o then_o as_o i_o say_v be_v all_o the_o question_n whether_o or_o not_o if_o a_o godly_a man_n be_v member_n of_o no_o particular_a church_n and_o come_v to_o demand_v baptism_n may_v not_o i_o require_v he_o first_o if_o you_o will_v have_v baptism_n be_v it_o be_v a_o church_n privilege_n and_o christian_n ought_v to_o walk_v orderly_o then_o join_v to_o some_o particular_a church_n if_o you_o require_v it_o of_o i_o one_o or_o so_o if_o there_o be_v more_o officer_n than_o one_o then_o may_v not_o the_o officer_n demand_n do_v than_o you_o choose_v i_o as_o your_o officer_n to_o who_o you_o will_v submit_v under_o christ_n do_v you_o look_v on_o this_o particular_a church_n as_o a_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n and_o will_v you_o walk_v with_o the_o member_n of_o 〈◊〉_d according_a to_o christ_n rule_n will_v you_o subject_n to_o all_o christ_n ordinance_n i_o pray_v why_o may_v i_o not_o demand_v these_o consider_v what_o apollonius_n ames_n mr_n hudson_n have_v say_v the_o light_n of_o nature_n will_v carry_v as_o much_o for_o if_o this_o man_n will_v not_o own_v i_o for_o his_o officer_n if_o he_o will_v not_o join_v with_o the_o church_n if_o not_o submit_v to_o ordinance_n what_o reason_n have_v i_o in_o particular_a to_o baptize_v his_o child_n or_o i_o and_o the_o church_n in_o particular_a to_o take_v more_o care_n of_o he_o then_o any_o other_o church_n if_o you_o say_v by_o his_o requite_v baptism_n of_o i_o he_o profess_v all_o this_o no_o sir_n by_o no_o mean_n i_o have_v
place_n and_o there_o another_o etc._n etc._n 188.212_o diatr_n p._n 188.212_o it_o be_v indeed_o usual_a to_o put_v a_o etc._n etc._n when_o man_n mind_n be_v clear_o know_v and_o there_o be_v no_o matter_n of_o consequence_n attend_v upon_o it_o so_o spare_v our_o writing_n and_o the_o printer_n but_o if_o any_o matter_n of_o consequence_n depend_v than_o it_o be_v very_o poor_a to_o put_v in_o &_o coetera_fw-la you_o know_v etc._n etc._n in_o the_o bishop_n oath_n be_v a_o untoward_a thing_n and_o here_o it_o be_v a_o troublesome_a thing_n if_o to_o the_o three_o why_o not_o to_o the_o 103_o generation_n &_o coetera_o will_v go_v further_o but_o say_v you_o p._n 11._o this_o be_v their_o common_a objection_n his_fw-la head_n be_v very_o shallow_a that_o shall_v not_o reach_v but_o you_o have_v full_o answer_v it_o elsewhere_o come_v on_o then_o sir_n since_o you_o say_v you_o have_v full_o answer_v it_o i_o will_v turn_v to_o your_o diatribae_fw-la and_o there_o look_v for_o it_o suppose_v that_o a_o man_n of_o your_o part_n who_o do_v slight_a so_o extreme_o other_o man_n argument_n call_v they_o very_o weak_a etc._n etc._n when_o you_o say_v you_o answer_v full_o you_o have_v do_v so_o indeed_o in_o p._n 212._o i_o see_v you_o have_v it_o there_o to_o answer_v i_o perceive_v you_o sinde_v it_o a_o troublesome_a objection_n and_o there_o recite_v the_o opinion_n of_o some_o man_n who_o i_o honour_v as_o much_o as_o yourself_o if_o there_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o opinion_n of_o a_o man_n to_o be_v desire_v you_o sum_n up_o their_o opinion_n and_o it_o amount_v to_o this_o it_o scome_v that_o the_o child_n of_o christian_n know_v or_o presume_v to_o be_v such_o whether_o live_v or_o dead_a may_v be_v baptize_v than_o you_o give_v we_o a_o allusion_n from_o those_o who_o can_v not_o prove_v their_o genealogy_n ezra_n 2.62_o whether_o you_o will_v stand_v to_o this_o as_o your_o answer_n i_o know_v not_o but_o than_o you_o add_v but_o all_o the_o child_n of_o 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wickedness_n of_o the_o immediate_a parent_n cut_v he_o off_o from_o the_o lord_n supper_n though_o his_o parent_n be_v godly_a why_o do_v not_o the_o same_o wickedness_n cut_v he_o off_o from_o give_v right_o to_o his_o child_n baptism_n if_o the_o parent_n can_v claim_v one_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n for_o himself_o appear_v plain_o not_o to_o have_v the_o condition_n of_o it_o must_v not_o the_o child_n suffer_v who_o depend_v upon_o he_o for_o its_o title_n the_o parent_n suffer_v therefore_o the_o child_n must_v needs_o you_o say_v no_o not_o for_o temporal_a punishment_n gehezi_n achan_n corah_n etc._n etc._n their_o child_n do_v nor_o spiritual_a to_o this_o i_o answer_v they_o can_v be_v abstract_v from_o their_o parent_n in_o this_o and_o therefore_o may_v as_o the_o child_n come_v to_o have_v its_o right_n by_o a_o parent_n so_o the_o child_n may_v lose_v by_o a_o parent_n it_o do_v not_o lose_v salvation_n nor_o regeneration_n by_o it_o you_o answer_v 4._o way_n 1._o from_o the_o jew_n which_o do_v not_o avail_v with_o i_o there_o be_v something_o peculiar_a to_o they_o in_o administration_n of_o circumcision_n as_o be_v clear_a before_o and_o shall_v be_v make_v clear_a hereafter_o 2._o your_o second_o be_v the_o distinguish_n between_o a_o person_n general_a state_n and_o personal_a wickedness_n his_o state_n be_v a_o christian_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v if_o you_o mean_v by_o personal_a wickedness_n some_o particular_a fall_n as_o you_o bring_v in_o noah_n and_o david_n strange_o afterward_o i_o think_v so_o indeed_o but_o if_o you_o mean_v a_o continue_a settle_a course_n in_o wickedness_n wilful_a ignorance_n than_o i_o say_v such_o a_o person_n have_v lose_v his_o first_o right_n to_o his_o own_o or_o his_o child_n baptism_n you_o may_v call_v he_o a_o christian_a but_o let_v his_o christianity_n be_v such_o as_o you_o have_v say_v may_v qualify_v he_o for_o a_o church-member_n or_o else_o it_o be_v not_o worth_a a_o rush_n such_o a_o one_o i_o look_v at_o as_o one_o that_o ought_v to_o be_v excommunicate_v for_o he_o deserve_v it_o we_o must_v prove_v that_o person_n ought_v to_o be_v excommunicate_v before_o they_o be_v now_o since_o he_o ought_v the_o question_n be_v why_o he_o be_v not_o if_o he_o be_v the_o child_n suffer_v for_o his_o state_n be_v a_o non-member_n in_o foro_fw-la dei_fw-la he_o be_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v in_o foro_fw-la ecclesiastico_fw-la if_o the_o case_n stand_v so_o as_o through_o the_o multitude_n of_o such_o it_o can_v convenient_o be_v so_o then_o yet_o let_v the_o minister_n go_v as_o far_o as_o they_o can_v i_o pray_v sir_n let_v this_o satisfy_v to_o your_o answer_n which_o you_o give_v about_o excommunication_n for_o you_o will_v gather_v from_o i_o that_o till_o excommunication_n minister_n ought_v to_o baptise_v thus_o far_o i_o yield_v it_o till_o excommunication_n or_o that_o which_o do_v deserve_v excommunication_n so_o that_o the_o person_n ought_v to_o be_v excommunicate_v though_o from_o some_o other_o external_a impediment_n as_o multitude_n etc._n etc._n they_o can_v be_v excommunicate_v yet_o than_o a_o separation_n from_o such_o or_o non-communion_n may_v help_v 3._o you_o say_v you_o have_v large_o confute_v this_o notion_n of_o the_o immediate_a parent_n i_o think_v not_o so_o 4._o you_o say_v i_o have_v destroy_v it_o myself_o the_o right_a he_o have_v be_v only_a by_o the_o church_n toleration_n let_v the_o officer_n look_v to_o that_o the_o first_o and_o main_a right_n he_o have_v none_o and_o none_o at_o all_o according_a to_o your_o doctrine_n for_o p._n 9_o the_o distinction_n of_o the_o physical_a and_o moral_a right_n in_o diatr_n 188._o if_o you_o have_v strong_o prove_v the_o moral_a right_n of_o the_o grandfather_n will_v clear_o have_v take_v off_o that_o wrong_n mean_v sir_n i_o will_v receive_v a_o answer_n when_o i_o see_v i_o be_o answer_v but_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v as_o little_a right_n of_o the_o mother_n over_o the_o child_n when_o compare_v with_o her_o husband_n as_o be_v of_o the_o grandfather_n compare_v with_o the_o father_n which_o you_o will_v seem_v to_o intimate_v be_v strange_a i_o be_o sure_a the_o mother_n communicate_v as_o much_o and_o more_o to_o the_o be_v of_o the_o child_n than_o the_o father_n do_v for_o aquinaâ—_n he_o may_v enjoy_v his_o opinion_n yet_o i_o think_v châ—mier_n of_o who_o anon_o be_v not_o full_a for_o he_o for_o my_o needless_a exception_n you_o mention_v it_o be_v well_o if_o nothing_o needless_a have_v come_v from_o you_o then_o you_o tell_v i_o i_o renew_v my_o plea_n 10._o page_n 10._o which_o be_v this_o who_o shall_v educate_v this_o child_n the_o ignorant_n person_n can_v the_o scandalous_a teach_v it_o how_o to_o break_v the_o covenant_n predecessor_n be_v dead_a etc._n etc._n here_o first_o you_o tell_v i_o of_o a_o law_n of_o the_o land_n which_o bath_n take_v care_n for_o the_o education_n of_o papist_n child_n and_o orphan_n provide_v school_n and_o hospital_n hence_o first_o i_o gather_v you_o do_v not_o care_v whether_o the_o grandfather_n be_v live_v or_o dead_a which_o in_o another_o place_n you_o express_v otherwise_o here_o the_o immediate_a gross_o ignorant_a and_o scandalous_a person_n give_v title_n but_o for_o what_o you_o say_v i_o pray_v pardon_v my_o ignorance_n of_o the_o law_n that_o have_v be_v so_o many_o year_n out_o of_o england_n i_o do_v not_o know_v the_o state_n have_v make_v such_o a_o law_n that_o if_o a_o ignorant_a or_o scandalous_a parent_n have_v a_o child_n baptize_v than_o those_o who_o be_v know_v and_o godly_a man_n at_o least_o sober_a man_n conversation_n comely_a shall_v take_v the_o child_n and_o bring_v it_o up_o and_o instruct_v it_o in_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n which_o
be_v excommunication_n say_v m._n rutherf_n but_o to_o deny_v all_o communion_n with_o those_o who_o be_v once_o in_o the_o church_n 222_o peac_n plea_n 222_o but_o all_o communion_n be_v not_o here_o deny_v you_o will_v object_v as_o you_o answer_v pag._n 13._o all_o communion_n with_o himself_o but_o not_o with_o the_o child_n for_o that_o be_v bear_v a_o christian_a and_o so_o bathe_v right_a ans_fw-fr have_v the_o child_n right_o to_o communion_n any_o other_o way_n with_o the_o church_n then_o by_o the_o parent_n be_v it_o not_o he_o that_o bring_v he_o in_o as_o a_o branch_n of_o himself_o be_v it_o not_o a_o christian_a bear_v by_o virtue_n of_o the_o parent_n christianity_n but_o his_o parent_n christianity_n can_v give_v himself_o no_o title_n to_o church-priviledge_n as_o i_o say_v before_o of_o profession_n which_o be_v all_o one_o do_v the_o child_n plead_v a_o title_n distinct_a from_o the_o parent_n if_o so_o than_o your_o answer_n you_o give_v be_v something_o but_o i_o know_v of_o no_o title_n it_o have_v but_o the_o parent_n who_o express_v his_o own_o title_n for_o himself_o and_o his_o seed_n now_o it_o be_v veâ—y_o rational_a that_o if_o the_o child_n have_v communion_n give_v only_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o parent_n communion_n for_o before_o the_o parent_n be_v admit_v a_o church-member_n the_o child_n can_v have_v none_o then_o the_o parent_n have_v forfeit_v communion_n for_o himself_o must_v needs_o forfeit_v it_o for_o his_o depend_v child_n also_o what_o tertullian_n say_v of_o excommunication_n apol_n c._n 39_o and_o l._n 2._o ad_fw-la vxorem_fw-la you_o know_v if_o classianâ—s_v his_o wise_n be_v a_o church-member_n though_o her_o husband_n be_v cast_v out_o 75._o aug_n â—p_n 75._o we_o do_v not_o approve_v his_o practice_n who_o will_v not_o baptize_v his_o child_n by_o virtue_n of_o she_o but_o it_o seem_v they_o apprehend_v that_o there_o be_v some_o equity_n if_o both_o be_v cast_v out_o no_o wonder_n though_o augustine_n be_v against_o it_o upon_o his_o principle_n 2._o if_o excommunication_n be_v the_o cast_v out_o of_o a_o member_n of_o a_o church_n 1_o cor._n 5._o ult_n and_o consequent_o render_v he_o a_o non-member_n than_o a_o excommunicate_v person_n can_v give_v title_n to_o his_o child_n baptism_n but_o excommunication_n be_v cast_v a_o man_n out_o etc._n etc._n the_o consequence_n be_v clear_a how_o can_v one_o who_o be_v a_o non-member_n of_o a_o church_n give_v title_n to_o a_o church-priviledge_n excommunication_n render_v he_o a_o non-member_n cut_v he_o off_o from_o communion_n and_o admit_v he_o to_o no_o other_o ordinance_n than_o a_o non-member_n be_v the_o phrase_n cast_v out_o show_v he_o be_v no_o member_n so_o the_o phrase_n of_o cut_v off_o 5._o aar_n rod._n l._n 1._o c._n 5._o which_o learned_a gillespy_n have_v excellent_o open_v to_o be_v mean_v of_o excommunication_n and_o there_o bring_v in_o buxtorf_n and_o godwin_n who_o report_n out_o of_o the_o rabbius_fw-la that_o their_o child_n be_v not_o circumcise_v this_o you_o say_v pag._n 14._o be_v not_o orthodox_n and_o it_o be_v a_o corrupt_a invention_n of_o the_o latter_a jew_n have_v no_o ground_n for_o it_o in_o the_o scripture_n you_o say_v elsewhere_o i_o think_v in_o the_o diatr_n that_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o speak_v for_o nor_o against_o it_o so_o far_o as_o ou_fw-fr can_v seâ—_n but_o then_o sir_n what_o ever_o i_o make_v of_o it_o it_o concern_v you_o to_o prove_v it_o to_o be_v a_o corrupt_a invention_n though_o i_o can_v yield_v it_o from_o what_o i_o observe_v before_o of_o their_o circumcision_n and_o yet_o not_o hurt_v myself_o but_o you_o answer_v to_o this_o argument_n p._n 13._o that_o he_o be_v a_o member_n still_o though_o much_o disease_a he_o be_v much_o disease_v before_o whilst_o under_o church_n admonition_n suspension_n and_o because_o those_o medicine_n will_v not_o cure_v he_o he_o be_v cut_v off_o a_o member_n under_o cure_n say_v you_o his_o cure_n be_v non_fw-fr membership_n but_o this_o be_v pretty_a a_o man_n shall_v be_v cut_v off_o the_o body_n and_o yet_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o body_n a_o man_n shall_v be_v cast_v out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o shall'be_v within_o the_o church_n a_o man_n shall_v be_v no_o member_n of_o a_o church_n as_o say_v you_o p._n 24._o and_o p._n 14._o and_o yet_o be_v a_o member_n of_o a_o church_n how_o you_o who_o be_v so_o eagle_n eye_v to_o spy_v out_o contradiction_n in_o other_o man_n will_v now_o clear_v yourself_o i_o can_v tell_v member_n no_o member_n be_v contradicentia_fw-la i_o think_v and_o to_o find_v a_o medium_n in_o contradicentibus_fw-la be_v new_a logic_n to_o i_o i_o though_o ens_fw-la &_o non_fw-la ens_fw-la have_v admit_v none_o 3._o excommunication_n be_v the_o put_n of_o a_o man_n out_o of_o the_o visible_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n into_o the_o kingdom_n of_o satan_n so_o the_o best_a expositor_n i_o meet_v with_o 5._o 1_o cor._n 5._o master_n cartwright_n etc._n etc._n expound_v that_o deliver_v up_o to_o satan_n hence_o i_o ague_n to_o administer_v the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n to_o a_o child_n by_o virtue_n of_o one_o who_o be_v even_o ecclesiasticè_fw-la in_o the_o church_n repute_n under_o the_o kingdom_n of_o satan_n be_v very_o unwarrantable_a to_o make_v christ_n a_o political_a head_n to_o one_o under_o satan_n kingdom_n seem_v very_o strange_a 4._o excommunication_n be_v the_o render_n of_o a_o man_n as_o a_o heathen_a to_o the_o church_n mat._n 18._o we_o do_v not_o differ_v here_o but_o agree_v that_o excommunication_n be_v mean_v here_o what_o ever_o the_o erastians_n only_o erastians_n here_o let_v i_o have_v leave_n to_o put_v in_o a_o word_n the_o erastians_n expound_v this_o of_o civil_a injury_n or_o personal_a civil_a trespass_n only_o and_o will_v prove_v it_o by_o compare_v of_o luke_n 17.3_o 4._o with_o this_o his_o argument_n be_v because_o it_o be_v such_o a_o trespass_n as_o a_o brother_n may_v forgive_v mr._n gillespy_n bestow_v pain_n here_o and_o to_o good_a purpose_n but_o let_v it_o be_v suppose_v the_o text_n run_v parallel_v which_o m_n gillespy_n think_v not_o 1._o that_o luke_n 17._o say_v that_o a_o brother_n may_v forgive_v such_o a_o trespass_n as_o it_o be_v better_o a_o millstone_n be_v â—angedi_n about_o his_o neck_n who_o offer_v it_o but_o 2_o we_o find_v in_o 2_o cor._n 27.10_o that_o paul_n forgive_v and_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n forgive_v what_o a_o trespass_n do_v against_o they_o no_o sure_a the_o incestuous_a person_n act_n be_v no_o evil_a trespass_n against_o paul_n nor_o the_o church_n yet_o they_o forgive_v if_o then_o they_o can_v forgive_v why_o may_v not_o a_o private_a brother_n also_o forgive_v thus_o it_o be_v suppose_v that_o the_o scandal_n which_o be_v here_o give_v &_o for_o which_o the_o private_a brother_n deal_v with_o the_o offendor_n private_o be_v but_o a_o private_a scandal_n for_o if_o it_o be_v public_a this_o way_n of_o deal_n cease_v if_o then_o this_o private_a brother_n deal_v with_o the_o offendor_n find_v the_o man_n to_o acknowledge_v his_o sin_n and_o repent_v why_o may_v not_o he_o be_v say_v to_o forgive_v he_o also_o as_o in_o case_n it_o have_v be_v a_o public_a fact_n and_o cast_v out_o upon_o his_o repentance_n the_o church_n forgive_v so_o that_o now_o he_o embrace_v he_o in_o his_o heart_n again_o proceed_v not_o to_o call_v any_o other_o to_o deal_v with_o he_o nor_o to_o tell_v it_o to_o the_o church_n but_o the_o scandal_n be_v bury_v forgive_v forget_v ecclesiasticè_fw-la i_o know_v no_o absurdity_n in_o this_o and_o so_o the_o forgiveness_n do_v not_o prove_v it_o to_o be_v a_o civil_a trespass_n only_o say_v have_v christ_n say_v let_v he_o be_v a_o heathen_a with_o reverence_n be_v it_o speak_v it_o shall_v seem_v not_o to_o have_v be_v so_o proper_a a_o speech_n for_o he_o may_v not_o be_v a_o heathen_a for_o he_o may_v hold_v his_o profession_n though_o cast_v out_o and_o so_o be_v not_o proper_o a_o heathen_a but_o as_o a_o heathen_a he_o be_v to_o the_o church_n now_o what_o that_o be_v mr._n gillespy_n tell_v we_o and_o not_o he_o alone_o but_o other_o plain_o 382._o aaro_n rod_n 382._o he_o be_v to_o be_v use_v no_o better_a than_o a_o heathen_a or_o profane_a publican_n and_o be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o any_o ordinance_n except_o such_o as_o heathen_n and_o profane_a publican_n be_v admit_v to_o but_o be_v they_o admit_v to_o the_o circumcision_n of_o their_o child_n 392._o page_n 392._o again_o he_o open_v it_o let_v he_o be_v esteem_v as_o one_o that_o have_v no_o part_n in_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n in_o church-membership_a observe_v that_o no_o member_n then_o in_o the_o holy_a thing_n in_o the_o covenant_n of_o promise_n more_o than_o a_o heathen_a man_n
the_o cudgel_n against_o you_o ed._n in_o his_o sermon_n before_o the_o l._n major_n on_o easter_n monday_n 1652._o p._n 28._o 2._o ed._n for_o he_o be_v so_o far_o from_o think_v that_o church_n shall_v excommunicate_v anabaptist_n if_o godly_a that_o he_o charge_v that_o church_n with_o schism_n which_o shall_v deny_v they_o communion_n because_o such_o expound_v it_o how_o you_o will_v so_o it_o be_v true_a that_o will_v show_v some_o difference_n and_o argue_v something_o be_v peculiar_a 5._o i_o say_v when_v the_o jew_n come_v to_o requite_v baptism_n it_o be_v not_o enough_o we_o be_v abraham_n seed_n ergo_fw-la baptise_v we_o this_o be_v enough_o to_o circumcision_n but_o john_n require_v repentance_n to_o this_o you_o answer_v it_o be_v a_o new_a ordinance_n in_o which_o repentance_n be_v require_v in_o the_o first_o parent_n 1._o but_o what_o then_o though_o new_a it_o be_v but_o a_o seal_n to_o the_o same_o covenant_n they_o be_v in_o before_o and_o they_o be_v visible_o 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but_o such_o as_o maymony_n before_o quote_v say_v aught_o to_o be_v circumcise_v than_o their_o circumcision_n be_v irregular_a for_o they_o throw_v oft_o abraham_n way_n and_o his_o god_n but_o if_o all_o abraham_n seed_n as_o such_o mere_o according_a to_o the_o flesh_n have_v a_o title_n to_o circumcision_n than_o it_o be_v peculiar_a to_o they_o and_o they_o be_v regular_o enough_o circumcise_v but_o this_o help_v not_o we_o 7._o that_o place_n ezra_n 10.3_o the_o child_n bear_v of_o the_o strange_a wife_n be_v to_o be_v put_v away_o vata_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d ut_fw-la proficiamus_fw-la vulg_fw-la eâ—iciâ—mus_fw-la vata_n as_o well_o as_o the_o strange_a wife_n it_o be_v very_o likely_a they_o will_v circumcise_v they_o but_o yet_o put_v away_o if_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v circumcise_v or_o be_v not_o yet_o it_o will_v imply_v some_o difference_n for_o all_o the_o rest_n to_o p._n 29._o i_o have_v speak_v to_o before_o there_o after_o you_o have_v condemn_v my_o rigidness_n for_o non-admission_n of_o the_o child_n of_o some_o parent_n than_o you_o show_v your_o judgement_n that_o all_o aught_o to_o be_v baptise_a 1._o you_o say_v if_o one_o minister_n will_v not_o baptize_v another_o will_n let_v other_o do_v as_o they_o please_v i_o must_v give_v account_n of_o my_o stewardshipâ—_n not_o his_o it_o will_v increase_v division_n betwixt_o minister_n by_o other_o intermeddle_v with_o their_o charge_n i_o be_v never_o yet_o offend_v with_o any_o man_n who_o do_v baptise_v the_o child_n of_o such_o as_o dwell_v in_o our_o parish_n i_o think_v intermeddle_v with_o other_o folk_n charge_n have_v be_v no_o offence_n to_o the_o classical_a government_n which_o will_v excommunicate_v a_o person_n in_o another_o man_n charge_n 1._o it_o will_v make_v the_o next_o generation_n no_o better_a than_o infidel_n be_v unbaptise_v this_o may_v prevent_v abundance_n of_o sin_n and_o ignorance_n make_v parent_n look_v about_o they_o work_v as_o experience_n have_v prove_v in_o n._n england_n to_o real_a conversion_n as_o in_o charity_n we_o may_v judge_v at_o least_o to_o knowledge_n and_o outward_a conformity_n in_o divers_a here_o also_o in_o england_n in_o your_o own_o shire_n the_o proof_n be_v make_v a_o godly_a minister_n that_o live_v there_o tell_v i_o he_o will_v not_o baptise_v without_o a_o good_a account_n give_v he_o and_o to_o this_o day_n he_o tell_v i_o at_o the_o commencement_n two_o in_o his_o parish_n be_v unbaptise_v the_o people_n observe_v this_o he_o tell_v i_o they_o bestir_v themselves_o to_o get_v knowledge_n and_o give_v better_a account_n this_o be_v the_o fruit_n already_o try_v but_o what_o then_o if_o all_o minister_n do_v so_o because_o unbaptised_a ergo_fw-la infidel_n constantine_n valentinianus_n and_o other_o be_v unbaptise_v a_o long_a time_n therefore_o they_o be_v infidel_n and_o valentinianus_n die_v a_o infidel_n because_o he_o die_v unbaptise_v this_o will_v exasperate_v parent_n you_o say_v we_o must_v look_v for_o rub_n at_o first_o our_o life_n be_v not_o such_o as_o to_o have_v the_o good_a word_n and_o will_n of_o every_o body_n but_o this_o daintiness_n must_v come_v down_o 1._o whilst_o we_o have_v the_o civil_a power_n to_o stand_v by_o it_o may_v be_v do_v the_o more_o easy_o 2._o if_o one_o of_o the_o parent_n give_v any_o comfortable_a account_n it_o be_v sufficient_a 3._o wome_a their_o sex_n command_v they_o more_o modesty_n and_o their_o education_n help_v if_o there_o be_v knowledge_n they_o have_v advantage_n also_o of_o affection_n and_o so_o easy_o move_v upon_o by_o preach_v the_o word_n 4._o for_o number_v we_o shall_v find_v the_o most_o opposition_n will_v be_v in_o the_o poor_a sort_n where_o horrible_a ignorance_n beside_o profaneness_n abound_v 5._o it_o be_v but_o visible_a saintship_n that_o be_v require_v you_o have_v say_v enough_o in_o my_o opinion_n as_o for_o maintenance_n which_o you_o mention_v thousand_o of_o minister_n in_o england_n have_v the_o advantage_n of_o i_o n._n england_n voyage_n have_v break_v and_o spoil_v our_o estate_n but_o ordinary_o minister_n have_v land_n of_o their_o own_o and_o some_o good_a glebe-land_n wherein_o they_o be_v before_o i_o i_o observe_v but_o two_o thing_n 1._o for_o what_o you_o say_v you_o will_v have_v the_o magistrate_n settle_v aright_o government_n which_o all_o congregatious_a shall_v be_v bind_v to_o submit_v to_o sir_n you_o speak_v of_o a_o hard_a thing_n the_o magistrate_n must_v needs_o be_v trouble_v to_o know_v which_o be_v that_o right_a government_n when_o there_o be_v so_o much_o difference_n among_o the_o minister_n who_o call_v for_o it_o one_o say_v it_o be_v classical_a government_n another_o it_o be_v congregationall_a and_o both_o side_n very_o godly_a man_n the_o ark_n must_v needs_o shake_v when_o the_o ox_n stumble_v 2._o yet_o such_o be_v the_o nearness_n of_o the_o agreement_n between_o the_o congregationall_a and_o classical_a government_n that_o though_o one_o be_v not_o bind_v to_o submit_v to_o the_o other_o yet_o church-government_n may_v go_v on_o well_o enough_o be_v it_o not_o for_o this_o separation_n which_o will_v undermine_v both_o if_o there_o be_v brotherly_a yield_n on_o both_o side_n but_o a_o little_a if_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n be_v as_o much_o value_v as_o it_o have_v be_v by_o other_o holy_a man_n before_o time_n we_o will_v not_o we_o dare_v not_o do_v as_o we_o do_v the_o magistrate_n do_v give_v leave_n for_o these_o two_o which_o in_o respect_n of_o government_n be_v so_o near_o that_o they_o need_v not_o be_v call_v two_o but_o this_o fearful_a blast_n of_o the_o ordinance_n by_o the_o sore_a hand_n of_o god_n and_o this_o horrible_a disunion_n between_o the_o congregationall_a and_o classical_a man_n and_o other_o who_o be_v godly_a say_v in_o my_o heart_n there_o hang_v a_o scourge_n over_o both_o congregationall_a and_o classical_a man_n and_o other_o professor_n for_o the_o rest_n p._n 30._o there_o be_v little_a to_o answer_v 2._o for_o your_o bring_n in_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n to_o reform_v our_o people_n as_o church-member_n this_o will_v be_v poor_a reformation_n i_o think_v church-member_n have_v be_v form_v and_o reform_v by_o the_o sword_n of_o the_o spirit_n not_o of_o the_o magistrate_n they_o can_v scarce_o make_v better_a law_n than_o they_o have_v make_v for_o reform_v of_o moral_a vice_n i_o think_v the_o fault_n lie_v not_o in_o they_o they_o can_v be_v judge_n and_o witness_n too_o for_o your_o last_o p_o 31._o that_o you_o will_v have_v we_o press_v the_o condition_n of_o the_o covenant_n on_o those_o that_o we_o baptise_v and_o that_o be_v sufficient_a now_o if_o i_o be_v only_o a_o teacher_n this_o may_v suffice_v but_o i_o think_v i_o be_o or_o shall_v be_v a_o ruler_n as_o well_o as_o a_o teacher_n if_o this_o
the_o world_n if_o he_o can_v and_o demand_v any_o ordinance_n yet_o member_n of_o no_o particular_a church_n so_o let_v this_o man_n walk_v as_o disorderly_o as_o he_o will_v as_o the_o latitude_n sometime_o you_o give_v of_o a_o church-member_n will_v allow_v a_o man_n to_o be_v bad_a enough_o in_o this_o town_n or_o another_o town_n he_o have_v own_v no_o particular_a church_n only_o the_o catholic_a what_o have_v this_o particular_a church_n to_o do_v to_o meddle_v with_o he_o more_o than_o any_o other_o we_o must_v have_v catholic_a church-officer_n to_o cast_v he_o out_o who_o be_v such_o not_o only_a actu_fw-la primo_fw-la but_o actu_fw-la secundo_fw-la which_o you_o say_v no_o minister_n be_v to_o another_o that_o be_v not_o of_o his_o particular_a congregation_n unless_o he_o be_v call_v to_o it_o but_o to_o be_v sure_o this_o man_n will_v never_o call_v you_o to_o it_o who_o then_o can_v give_v you_o a_o call_v so_o that_o this_o man_n can_v come_v to_o be_v reform_v and_o yet_o he_o may_v go_v up_o and_o down_o to_o any_o church_n i_o be_o a_o christian_n therefore_o give_v i_o the_o ordinance_n excommunicate_v i_o be_o not_o for_o none_o can_v excommunicate_v he_o unless_o all_o the_o officer_n of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o world_n shall_v meet_v to_o cast_v he_o out_o if_o you_o say_v 194._o which_o you_o affirm_v diatr_n 194._o where_o he_o first_o come_v to_o be_v baptize_v of_o that_o particular_a church_n he_o be_v a_o member_n and_o that_o officer_n have_v power_n etc._n etc._n no_o sir_n i_o can_v believe_v this_o doctrine_n that_o my_o baptise_v of_o another_o make_v he_o member_n to_o our_o particular_a church_n i_o have_v have_v three_o of_o my_o child_n baptize_v by_o minister_n who_o never_o look_v on_o i_o as_o member_n to_o their_o church_n though_o i_o dwell_v in_o the_o town_n i_o have_v do_v the_o same_o for_o other_o be_v call_v to_o it_o yet_o none_o of_o my_o member_n yourself_o acknowledge_v baptism_n do_v not_o make_v a_o member_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n revie_n mr._n hooker_n c._n â—_o than_o not_o of_o this_o particular_a visible_a church_n if_o you_o say_v diat_a so_o you_o express_v your_o mind_n pag._n 194._o diat_a but_o a_o christian_n must_v not_o do_v thus_o he_o must_v join_v to_o a_o particular_a church_n the_o question_n be_v not_o what_o he_o must_v do_v but_o what_o he_o will_v do_v will_v not_o you_o baptize_v his_o child_n or_o he_o unless_o he_o will_v join_v if_o not_o you_o have_v say_v enough_o 3._o to_o be_v a_o church-member_n seem_v to_o be_v more_o than_o a_o christian_a i._n e._n a_o christian_a member_n of_o such_o a_o society_n and_o wâ—â—king_n under_o such_o a_o policy_n and_o that_o policy_n suppose_v officer_n you_o say_v there_o be_v no_o essential_a homogeneal_a church_n exist_v without_o officer_n mention_v in_o the_o scripture_n it_o be_v a_o fancy_n you_o say_v and_o repeat_v it_o again_o 77._o review_n master_n hooker_n pag._n 75_o 77._o oppose_v mr._n hooker_n a_o church-member_n than_o must_v be_v under_o officer_n under_o such_o a_o policy_n as_o in_o the_o catholic_a church_n but_o how_o that_o can_v be_v unless_o he_o be_v a_o member_n of_o some_o particular_a church_n which_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_a as_o you_o say_v i_o know_v not_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v no_o policy_n extra_fw-la ecclesias_fw-la particulares_fw-la the_o hard_a matter_n be_v the_o apostle_n baptise_v which_o be_v often_o abledge_v this_o make_v i_o doubtful_a on_o the_o other_o side_n only_o these_o thought_n i_o have_v bad_a 1._o they_o have_v such_o power_n as_o we_o have_v none_o they_o can_v exercise_v their_o power_n any_o where_n without_o any_o call_n paul_n be_v a_o actual_a officer_n to_o the_o jailor_n and_o so_o other_o apostle_n where_o they_o come_v hence_o they_o can_v reach_v they_o in_o case_n of_o irregular_a walk_n without_o a_o second_o call_v but_o so_o much_o can_v we_o 2._o i_o do_v not_o remember_v they_o baptize_v any_o single_a person_n but_o such_o as_o be_v member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n which_o be_v a_o gospel-church_n under_o ceremony_n for_o other_o they_o baptize_v so_o many_o at_o once_o for_o aught_o i_o can_v see_v that_o may_v lay_v the_o foundation_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n the_o jailor_n act._n 16._o 32._o how_o many_o be_v in_o his_o house_n i_o know_v not_o he_o and_z all_o his_o house_n believe_v in_o god_n so_o cornelius_n there_o be_v company_n enough_o to_o begin_v a_o particular_a church_n for_o aught_o i_o can_v see_v though_o how_o many_o its_o uncertain_a paul_n and_o pver_fw-la officer_n to_o these_o in_o beginning_n some_o thing_n may_v be_v extraordinary_a as_o be_v they_o officer_n extraordinary_a i_o easy_o see_v difficulty_n e._n in_o n._n e._n if_o one_o or_o two_o indian_n shall_v seem_v to_o be_v convert_v but_o because_o their_o language_n can_v join_v to_o a_o english_a church_n shall_v now_o the_o minister_n delay_n to_o baptize_v he_o but_o then_o there_o be_v this_o also_o if_o these_o two_o or_o one_o shall_v prove_v vile_a and_o scandalous_a what_o shall_v that_o minister_n do_v with_o he_o other_o scruple_n about_o this_o i_o can_v cast_v in_o but_o it_o concern_v not_o my_o question_n the_o next_o fault_n you_o find_v be_v that_o require_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n to_o such_o a_o church_n i_o seem_v not_o only_o to_o contradict_v myself_o but_o also_o to_o unchurch_n most_o of_o our_o english_a church_n here_o i_o must_v stay_v a_o while_n have_v occasion_n give_v to_o look_v back_o into_o your_o epistle_n what_o do_v i_o hear_v of_o contradiction_n again_o you_o have_v a_o strange_a art_n in_o find_v out_o contradiction_n but_o how_o come_v this_o about_o it_o seem_v i_o require_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n but_o sir_n be_v you_o sure_o the_o word_n explicit_a be_v in_o the_o definition_n nay_o you_o be_v sure_a it_o be_v not_o can_v there_o be_v no_o covenant_n in_o a_o church_n but_o explicit_a i_o suppose_v yes_o and_o i_o suppose_v you_o think_v so_o also_o so_o do_v appollonius_n we_o will_v hear_v he_o speak_v present_o be_v this_o faiâ—e_a deal_n to_o force_v a_o word_n upon_o i_o when_o i_o have_v clear_o before_o express_v my_o self_n another_o way_n i_o be_o far_o enough_o then_o from_o contradiction_n or_o from_o unchurch_v the_o faithful_a congregation_n of_o england_n though_o they_o have_v not_o a_o explâ—â—â—_n covenant_n yourself_o p._n 25._o mention_v the_o external_a covenant_n of_o the_o church_n but_o what_o you_o mean_v by_o it_o i_o know_v not_o you_o be_v a_o passage_n in_o my_o boistle_n which_o be_v this_o some_o minister_n scorn_v the_o notion_n that_o a_o explicâ—ie_a covenant_n be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n visible_a and_o some_o professor_n be_v so_o rigid_a for_o it_o that_o without_o it_o they_o deny_v all_o church_n of_o the_o latter_a sort_n be_v mr._n hooker_n say_v you_o sir_n you_o wrong_v he_o exceed_o and_o i_o wonder_v a_o man_n of_o your_o grace_n shall_v do_v thus_o when_o he_o have_v so_o express_o declare_v his_o mind_n to_o the_o concrary_a to_o your_o knowledge_n the_o next_o word_n you_o mention_v show_v as_o much_o and_o in_o his_o epistle_n p._n 11._o he_o speak_v as_o plainesy_v but_o of_o he_o anon_o that_o passage_n shall_v clear_v i_o from_o make_v no_o church_n but_o where_o there_o be_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n i_o see_v in_o some_o congregation_n where_o there_o be_v both_o visible_a and_o real_a saint_n as_o we_o may_v judge_v when_o the_o lord_n supper_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v some_o professor_n will_v not_o join_v in_o the_o ordinance_n for_o want_v of_o that_o so_o far_o as_o i_o can_v learn_v suppose_v they_o be_v not_o in_o a_o right_a churchway_n now_o this_o i_o can_v not_o approve_v of_o since_o there_o be_v so_o many_o christian_n to_o depart_v from_o the_o ordinance_n upon_o such_o a_o ground_n in_o my_o own_o congregation_n i_o thus_o practice_v some_o of_o other_o parish_n have_v desire_v to_o join_v with_o we_o at_o the_o lord_n supper_n if_o we_o have_v not_o know_v they_o well_o i_o have_v desire_v they_o to_o bring_v a_o testimony_n from_o their_o minister_n and_o they_o have_v do_v so_o other_o who_o we_o know_v well_o i_o have_v not_o desire_v it_o but_o admit_v these_o to_o the_o lord_n supper_n yet_o they_o be_v under_o no_o explicit_a covenant_n but_o a_o implicit_a covenant_n i_o know_v they_o close_v with_o their_o pastor_n in_o their_o church_n if_o need_n have_v be_v i_o will_v have_v baptize_v their_o child_n have_v they_o bring_v they_o to_o i_o i_o hope_v now_o you_o be_v convince_v afterward_o you_o say_v again_o i_o recall_v it_o because_o i_o say_v that_o this_o expliciteness_n be_v almost_o essential_a to_o the_o government_n of_o the_o
must_v be_v the_o answer_n or_o nothing_o this_o be_v woeful_a trouble_n if_o good_a people_n or_o visible_a saint_n shall_v be_v thus_o charge_v with_o all_o the_o child_n of_o person_n who_o be_v as_o the_o question_n mention_n as_o for_o the_o other_o part_n you_o say_v the_o church_n shall_v take_v care_n as_o in_o case_n both_o the_o parent_n die_v while_o they_o be_v little_a child_n and_o then_o you_o give_v a_o nip_n to_o the_o congregationall_a church_n you_o say_v right_a for_o the_o church_n care_n but_o how_o shall_v we_o do_v whilst_o these_o parent_n live_v and_o keep_v they_o at_o home_n and_o teach_v they_o to_o break_v covenant_n and_o though_o they_o be_v entreat_v to_o send_v their_o child_n to_o catechise_n yet_o will_v not_o as_o i_o have_v too_o bad_a experience_n for_o the_o child_n of_o church_n member_n the_o parent_n die_v whilst_o they_o be_v young_a i_o wish_v i_o can_v see_v as_o good_a example_n of_o your_o parochial_a cnogregation_n take_v care_n for_o the_o christian_a education_n of_o such_o as_o i_o can_v give_v you_o in_o the_o congregationall_a church_n in_o new_a england_n but_o then_o the_o title_n be_v not_o question_v there_o be_v that_o ease_n and_o we_o do_v not_o know_v but_o those_o godly_a parent_n may_v live_v to_o educate_v they_o then_o p._n 11._o you_o turn_v a_o argument_n upon_o i_o from_o myself_o 11._o page_n 11._o because_o i_o can_v plead_v a_o promise_n by_o virtue_n of_o may_o father_n so_o may_v the_o grandchild_n by_o virtue_n of_o a_o godly_a grandfather_n and_o so_o bid_v i_o change_v parent_n into_o progenitor_n sir_n i_o be_o glad_a i_o can_v give_v you_o so_o good_a a_o argument_n and_o i_o can_v beteame_n to_o let_v it_o alone_o for_o it_o will_v not_o hurt_v my_o question_n as_o i_o say_v before_o only_o a_o word_n you_o bid_v i_o change_v parent_n into_o progenitor_n so_o i_o will_v let_v it_o be_v the_o great_a grandfather_n of_o the_o child_n great_a grandfather_n and_o one_o that_o be_v forty_o generation_n before_o he_o for_o your_o &_o coetera_o will_v give_v i_o leave_v i_o know_v not_o how_o to_o set_v bound_n to_o &_o coetera_o yet_o i_o may_v go_v so_o far_o for_o a_o title_n and_o the_o text_n you_o bring_v do_v not_o limit_v i_o you_o grant_v a_o apostate_n lose_v his_o own_o baptism_n p._n 12._o 190._o yet_o you_o can_v see_v how_o a_o parent_n apostasy_n can_v just_o cut_v off_o his_o child_n diatr_n p._n 190._o so_o his_o right_n be_v cut_v off_o suppose_v the_o pro-parent_n be_v dead_a here_o be_v intercisio_fw-la christianismi_fw-la as_o you_o quote_v calvin_n before_o than_o i_o know_v not_o how_o this_o apostate_n child_n can_v be_v baptise_a by_o any_o parentall_a right_n yet_o if_o this_o child_n shall_v come_v to_o understanding_n and_o there_o shall_v be_v moving_n on_o the_o heart_n of_o it_o and_o it_o shall_v plead_v the_o covenant_n of_o a_o grandfather_n i_o shall_v not_o question_v to_o baptise_v it_o without_o respect_n to_o parent_n if_o it_o come_v to_o that_o yet_o sir_n this_o will_v show_v there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n between_o the_o pro-parent_n right_n if_o it_o can_v clear_o be_v prove_v at_o all_o give_v a_o title_n to_o baptism_n and_o the_o immediate_a parent_n for_o that_o may_v be_v cut_v off_o by_o the_o immediate_a parent_n just_o but_o the_o immediate_a parent_n title_n can_v be_v cut_v off_o now_o we_o be_v come_v to_o the_o last_o argument_n 13._o page_z 12_o 13._o if_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o grandfather_n than_o the_o child_n of_o one_o apostatise_v or_o excommunicate_v person_n may_v be_v baptize_v but_o not_o ergo._n for_o a_o apostate_n you_o tell_v i_o of_o the_o kindred_n take_v care_n of_o it_o or_o susceptores_fw-la this_o notion_n will_v come_v in_o afterward_o for_o excommunicate_v person_n there_o you_o bestow_v pain_n and_o i_o perceive_v you_o care_v not_o so_o much_o for_o a_o pro-parent_n here_o but_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o immediate_a parent_n himself_o though_o excommunicate_v for_o my_o own_o part_n i_o shall_v not_o here_o yield_v to_o a_o pro-parent_n neither_o do_v i_o see_v our_o new_a england_n divine_v that_o can_v beteame_n a_o grandchild_n under_o the_o grandfather_n tuition_n to_o be_v baptize_v by_o virtue_n of_o he_o will_v allow_v it_o if_o the_o immediate_a parent_n be_v excommunicate_v for_o this_o hinder_v the_o work_n of_o the_o ordinance_n it_o be_v of_o great_a force_n to_o work_v when_o a_o man_n shall_v see_v not_o only_a himself_o cut_v off_o but_o even_o his_o very_a child_n also_o this_o have_v be_v a_o mean_n to_o awaken_v some_o in_o n._n england_n who_o be_v not_o excommunicate_v but_o only_o not_o admit_v to_o see_v their_o posterity_n also_o suffer_v for_o their_o sake_n it_o have_v so_o wrought_v as_o to_o make_v some_o true_o godly_a so_o far_o as_o we_o may_v judge_v and_o other_o it_o have_v bring_v into_o external_a order_n in_o conversation_n but_o since_o you_o have_v here_o maintain_v it_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o immediate_a parent_n excommunicate_v i_o shall_v desire_v to_o consider_v it_o it_o be_v grant_v there_o be_v a_o difference_n between_o a_o excommunicate_v person_n and_o a_o heathen_a as_o 1._o he_o may_v still_o hold_v his_o profession_n 119._o revie_n m._n hoo._n 119._o but_o as_o you_o say_v it_o be_v violate_v by_o his_o scandal_n and_o it_o must_v be_v renew_v before_o he_o can_v be_v receive_v again_o though_o he_o hold_v his_o profession_n still_o yet_o that_o now_o violate_a be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o give_v himself_o a_o title_n to_o baptism_n if_o he_o be_v not_o now_o baptize_v much_o less_o the_o child_n who_o depend_v whole_o on_o his_o title_n if_o his_o profession_n be_v sufficient_a to_o give_v his_o child_n by_o virtue_n of_o he_o a_o title_n to_o one_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n why_o the_o same_o profession_n shall_v not_o be_v sufficient_a to_o give_v himself_o a_o title_n to_o the_o other_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n one_o faith_n be_v the_o condition_n of_o it_o and_o you_o say_v he_o have_v that_o i_o can_v see_v no_o reason_n that_o profession_n which_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o make_v a_o man_n a_o church_n member_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o give_v title_n to_o a_o church-priviledge_n consequent_o not_o to_o baptism_n but_o the_o profession_n of_o a_o person_n excommunicate_v be_v not_o sufficient_a etc._n etc._n ergo_fw-la the_o minor_a be_v clear_a his_o profession_n be_v vioalate_v and_o must_v be_v renew_v before_o he_o can_v be_v receive_v say_v you_o then_o it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a this_o be_v further_a clear_a for_o if_o it_o be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v he_o a_o church-member_n when_o cast_v out_o why_o be_v it_o not_o sufficient_a to_o keep_v he_o within_o whilst_o be_v be_v within_o so_o he_o shall_v not_o have_v need_v to_o be_v cast_v out_o this_o then_o be_v clear_a that_o there_o be_v great_a difference_n between_o the_o profession_n of_o a_o person_n who_o be_v never_o admit_v and_o another_o who_o be_v cast_v out_o the_o first_o may_v have_v less_o knowledge_n by_o far_o weak_a gift_n and_o possible_o more_o infirmity_n which_o may_v yet_o be_v such_o as_o a_o church_n may_v admit_v when_o the_o other_o who_o have_v violate_v his_o profession_n may_v not_o 2._o he_o be_v under_o cure_n but_o his_o cure_n be_v non-membership_a a_o member_n cut_v off_o from_o the_o body_n a_o heathen_a be_v not_o under_o cure_n 3._o when_o he_o have_v renew_v his_o profession_n by_o repentance_n and_o so_o the_o church_n receive_v he_o again_o he_o be_v not_o re-baptised_n but_o this_o do_v not_o prove_v that_o therefore_o whilst_o he_o be_v extra_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la that_o he_o can_v give_v title_n to_o a_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n it_o be_v not_o his_o be_v baptize_v that_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o his_o child_n baptism_n whilst_o he_o be_v in_o the_o church_n therefore_o that_o can_v give_v the_o title_n when_o he_o be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n but_o heathen_n must_v be_v baptize_v when_o they_o be_v admit_v the_o other_o be_v receive_v again_o not_o therefore_o baptize_v that_o his_o baptism_n be_v not_o the_o ground_n of_o his_o child_n baptism_n i_o shall_v prove_v afterward_o but_o i_o will_v come_v to_o argument_n 1._o if_o a_o child_n may_v be_v baptise_v by_o virtue_n of_o a_o excommunicate_v parent_n than_o that_o parent_n be_v not_o excommunicate_v and_o this_o be_v to_o make_v a_o contradiction_n but_o the_o parent_n be_v excommunicate_v ergo._n to_o baptise_v be_v to_o give_v communion_n baptize_v into_o one_o body_n 12.13_o 1_o cor._n 12.13_o than_o there_o be_v communion_n give_v with_o the_o body_n by_o a_o excommunicated_a person_n be_v not_o this_o a_o contradiction_n communion_n be_v most_o proper_o see_v in_o baptism_n and_o lord_n supper_n what_o