And so your Argument by crossing shins with it selfe falleth to ground Again your Presbyteriall government hath neither best nor any sufficient warrant as wee judge in the New Testament no nor any warrant at all in Gods word But the true forme of Church-government hath both sufficient and without comparison best warrant in the Scripture And in truth whereas you oppose presbyteriall and Independent as you call it one against the other let me tell you that that which you call Independent is the onely true originall and primitive Presbyteriall Which Presbytery is proper and peculiar to every particular Church of Christâ— and is not a Presbytery collective of many Churches by way of jurisdiction one or many over each or of a Nationall Church as you terme it For neither of these can you find either in the New Testamens or in the Old In the old we read of one Church to wit that of the Nation of the Jewes But that whole Church was one intire congregation Act. 7. 38. they had one Church officer over all it is called the Tabernacle of the congregation in the singuler and they all assembled three times in the yeare at Jerusalem in the Temple where they offered Sacrifice and not else where So as the Church was a type of every particular Church of Christ under the New Testament as being both one intire Church and absolute subject to no other form of government but only that of the only Law-giver and Mediator Jesus Christ and no pattern of any such Nationall Church as you would have Every particular Church now consisting of visible Saints is under Christ as the onely Head King Governour Law-giver of it and so is subject to no other jurisdiction then that of Christ his Spirit his Word Were there none other particular Church in the world then one as that of Abrahams Family should it not be a compleat Church untill there were other Churches on whose jurisdiction it should depend though for ordinary Families they cannot have such a number as is requisite to make up a ministeriall body so are bound to unite to others for this end Wee hold communion and consociation of Churches for counsell in doubts and comfort in distresse but we deny any such combination of Churches as whereby the true liberty of every particular Church is taken away And this communion of Churches doth no lesse if not more prevent Heresies Schismes Injustice then your Presbyteriall Nor can you shew reason to the contrary And yet would you have our Churches more perfect then those of the Apostles own planting and gathering as to bee altogether exempted from Heresies Schismes Injustice Did not the Apostle tell the Church of Corinth There must bee Heresies eve among you that they which are approved may be made manifest And could those Primitive Churches after the Apostles preserve themselves from Heresics How soone did the whole world groane and wonder that it was become an Arian And this within the fourth Century after the birth of Christ when the Churches were governed by the Bishops and their Presbyteries And how soone did the Kingdome of the Beast mount up to such a height as it overtopt all the Westerne Churches and brought them under his dominion And for our truly and properly Presbyterian Churches your Independents to which you deny expresse warrant in Scripture the whole New Testament is both an expresse and ample witnesse on our side All those particular Churches which the Apostles planted were all of absolute authority amongst themselves respectively and equall one of the other You can shew unto us no rule or example to the contrary That in Act. 15. is a transcendent and stands alone not to be paralleld and therefore very impertinently objected by many before you as wee shall have occasion to shew afterwards And for pattern in the Primative Churches after the Apostles we are not curious to seeke it in the corrupt current of succeeding ages when we find it the pure fountaine It appeares say the Centurists Cent 1. 7 Titâ—de consociatione Eccles. that the Government of Churches in the second hundreth yeare was almost popular every Church had equall power of ordaining or casting out if neede were those Ministers they had ordâ—ined with other things very materiall in that whole Title as also in the Title de Synodis privatis And for the best reformed Churches if in them we cannot finde that patterne so fully followed as the Scripture holds forth unto us wee cruve leave without prejudice to take it as wee finde it in the Word without the least variation And you may knowâ— in the beginning of Protestant Reformation could they so clearly see in the dawning as wee may now in the meridian if we will but open our eyes The reformed Churches have taken up one or other of them upon the matter the maine things we contend for 1. The Church of Holland receive none to the Table nor have a vote as a member of that Church but such as first give satisfaction to the Elderships and then to the Congregation and 2. have a forme of covenant propounded by them Secondly the French Churches exercise excommunication in their particular congregations though with liberty of appeale And this was the governement of the Primitive Churches in the 2d hundreth yeare as appeares Cent. 2. c. 7. Tit. de Synodis but especially Tit. de consociatione Eccles. So as no long debate neede to be if but Christs word alone may take place without the necessary accommodation of humane Lawes Customes Manners of the people as you doe plead And lastly for appeales in case of Injustice you know brother that if injustice be done in any civill matter if redresse may not be had by the mediation of the Church whereof the parties are members then the Law is open there to appeale for justice And if it be about the Churches censure for some miscarriage of a member towards the Church or any member thereof if the censure bee unjust the party grieved may desire to have his cause heard by some other Churches who may accordingly deale with their Sister-church to require a brotherly account of the whole businesse as is the duty of all the Churches in such cases And if it be in matter of opinion here the appeale lies principally and in the first place to the Scripture as the supreme Judge and if the things be obscure too hard for that Church to resolve by the Scripture then to call in the helpe of other Churches for their best information And in summe brother there is no case can fall out in any Church which hath not as many helpes by a free communion of Churches wherein every Churches peculiar liberties and priviledges are preserved as they ought to be as any you can name to bee in your obligatory combination of Churches wherby the liberty of each Church is by coÌ„mon consent sold over to others by which it ceaseth now to be a free Church
of Christ under his onely jurisdiction and government So as herby great mischiefes may redound even to the purest Church when once things come to be carried by the vote of a generall or Classicall Assembly of Divines swaying things besides the Rule and stretching them beyond their line And therefore famous was that saying of Nazianzens * That he never saw any good to come of generall Councels because commonly Camelion-like they change their hue with the nearest object complying with the condition of the present times and State as suppose Prelaticall Spirits should turne to be your Presbyterians or as when in case the Lord Christ shall resume his Kingdome over his Churches in a civill State we should perhaps see some of your Presbyterians as fast to turn Independants were the preferments sutable But some may object that one Church standing by it selfe is more subject to fall into errour then when combined with other Churches To which I answer That every particular Church injoying its own freedome without any injoyned combination with other Churches may much longer preserve it selfe from danger of errour when it hath its free choise in matters of difference or difficulty to consult onely with those Churches which it knows to be most sound and orthodox then when it is fast bound and incircled with this or that combination of Churches being in number twelve or twenty or more or lesse whose votes must carry every controversie according to the severall humours of such and such at all adventure And brother Prynne the world is not so plentifull of sound spirits as to supply every Hundred in the Land with twelve or twenty able and godly Ministers to be of a combination Nay you may observe what poore shifts are used for the supplying of places with godly and able Ministers which are grown so geason that the City now is faine to be supplyed with plundered countrey Ministers in stead of their out-cast Malignants And suppose all these to be as good as they should be where shall those country-places be supplyed And besides such is the penury of good Ministers if not of care to provide better if possible that such as are for their demerits cast out of one place are for I wot not what merits put upon some other people where their good qualities are not knowne Being such as verifie the Proverb {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} They change their mansion but not their manners And besides all this he is one very meanly gifted now adayes that will be wooed and won to take a Benefice under a hundred or sixescore pounds And brother why should godly Ministers indeed be yoked with such earth-wormes and Mammonists as are in some Parishes and as some of your Presbyterian combinations would necessitate us unto If you say if things goe amisse in lesser Classes they may be remedied in a generall Assembly then I say there is the like reason of a generall Assembly that there is of all the severall classes put together For totius partium eadem est ratio if all the members be corrupt so also must the whole body be Therefore the case must needs be hard when one or two Churches in a classis or combination that are sound should be bound to the decisions of the rest being unsound and so for the generall Assembly in the like proportion The fifth Question It is reduced thus That whose grounds and reasons tend inevitably to endanger overthrow and embroyle Ecclesiasticall or civill formes of Government ought not to be suffered But such is the Independent church-government it tends inevitably c. Therefore it ought not to be suffered I deny the Assumption The grounds and reasons of true church-government do not in their own nature tend to the indangering overthrowing and embroiling of Ecclesiasticall or civill formes of Government Horm confess sect. 11. of the confess of Aâ—spurg art 7. Power Ecclesiasticall no more hindreth the civill then the skill of musicke neither is it to be confounded with civill And ibid. They to wit the Prelates transforme the church into a humane Government For they would doe all in imitation of civill Government But if they produce any such effect it is onely accidentall and the maine cause is in such Ecclesiasticall or civill bodies when they shew some antipathy in their constitution to Christs kingdome and government by their opposing or oppressing of it Hereupon Christ saith * Think not that I am come to send peace on the earth I came not to send peace but a sword And it was the preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdome both by Christ and his Apostles for which they were exclaimed against and persecuted as troublers of the State both Ecclesiastick and Politick as movers of sedition and perverters of the people and the like And will you thereupon conclude that the preaching of the Gospel and setting up of Christs kingdome in his churches is a troubler of the State and a mover of sedition and a seducer of the people because Hierarchicall Government hath an Antipathy with Christs Spirituall Kingdome and Church-government The sixth Question The summe where of is That which from the beginning of the preaching of the Gospel downwards till this present age had no being in the world can doubtlesse be no Church-Government of Christs or his Apostles But such say you is the Government of Independent Churches Therefore not Christs or the Apostles Church-government I deny your Assumption And for further answer thereto I referre you to my Answer to your third and fourth Question where is cleerely proved that all the Churches founded and planted by Christ and his Apostles were in themselves respectively absolute and free Churches which though they had communion with all their sister-Sister-Churches yet you can never prove your classicall or Synodicall Jurisdiction of either a Provinciall Church as you call it or a Generall Counsell over every particular Church to have the least footing or beeing at all in the Scripture 2. In the Ecclesiasticall Histories for the first 200. yeers we finde as was noted above sufficient ground for it but none for the combined coercive Presbytery let that be shewn afterwards indeed as times grow worse you finde your Pâ—râ—archall Metropoliticall Prelaticall Nationall Provinciall church-governments Generall and Provinciall councels subordination and subjection of the lesser Churches to the greater by which very meanes the Papall Antichristian kingdome came gradually to be erected as is noted before but can you shew us the least print of one footstep in the Word of God of any such Hierarchie or of any such subordination and subjection of one Church to another And if the mystery of iniquity began to worke even in the Apostles own times which was the very Hierarchie it selfe in the affection of Primacy as we see practised by Diâ—trepes who is noted to bee {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} a lover of Primacy or preheminence and
it selfe To be plaine therefore though I know you to be a very Heluo librorum of vast indefatigable reading and to have a stomack proportionable of a strong digestion yet give me leave to tell you as my loving and beloved friend and brother that the subject you here deale with is not of so easie a digestion as that subitane or sudden apprehensions thereof may be wâ—ll said to be digested Strong meats you know taken downe liberally into the stomack doe require the longer time for a kindly digestion And a sudden digestion is apt to leave many indigested crudâ—â—ies ingendring malignant humours in the body You digest your apprehensions into considerable Questions as you call them to be solemnly debated by sober minds but passing along brother I find your Questions turned into your owne resolutions so as in stead of debating them by sober minded men you forestall them and tell us that these Independents as you style them are guilty of Arrogancy Schisme Contumacy and liable to such penalties as are due to these offences in case they shall not submit to such a publick Church-Government Rites Discipline as a Synod and Parliament shall conceive most consonant to Gods Word c. And all along your Queries are so digested by you as that they cast up a very ill sent if not rather a judiciall sentence against those Churches which not honoris causa you name Independents But we shall answer to the particulars as they come in order Thus much of your Proeme or Preface To your first Question Before I punctually answer this and so the rest of your Questions let me premise this as an {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} which I must demand of you a due to my Profession that forasmuch as you are a learned Lawyer and able to speake much of Lawes and Customes of Nations and Churches and my selfe am a professor of Divinitie the Rules and Principles whereof are all of them laid downe in the Scripture unto which alone all Questions about Faith and Religion are so reducible and finally determinable as who so denieth this denieth the faith and is not to be disputed with as a denier of Principles therefore I require of you as a Christian brother to joyne issue with me in this point that all your Questions may be resolved by cleare Scriptures and reason evidently deduced from them and this with all brevitie and perspicuitie Now to your first question the summe whereof is Whether every severall Nation Republick and Nationall Church hath not under the Gospell a * liberty and latitude left them to chuse and settle such an orderly forme of Church-government Discipline and Ecclesiasticall Rites as is most suteable to their particular Civill government lawes manners customes being not repugnant to the word of God This being as I conceive a generally received truth among all Protestant Churches And whether some things in all Church-governments Discipline Ceremonies whatsoever are not and must not be left to humane prudence for which there is no direct precept nor pattern in sacred writ Which truth is assented to by all parties Churches whatsoever in theory or practice This is the substance of your first Question To which I answer And first to your quotation of the Harmony I will answer one for all Sect. 16. August Confessio 4. Traditiones de â—â—riis c. We condemne not Traditions of Holy-dayes of the Lords day of the Nativity of Easter and the rest for a politick end Here you see they put the observation of the Lords day among humane Traditions which I suppose you doe not approve Again they allow onely such observations as God by the Morall Law and the voyce of Nature it selfe commandeth And thirdly That humane rites be not imposed Ne conscientiae onerentur That mens consciences bee not burthened And in a word To shape Religion in point of Church-government Discipline Ceremonies to every Nation Republick Nationall Church and to Civill Government Lawes Manners Customes and so to humane Prudence as you say what is it but to shape a coat for the Moone Whereas the Scripture holds forth unto us but onely one forme of Church-government and Discipline which ought not to be altered according to the diversitie of humane Lawes and Customes in all Kingdomes and Common-weales as you affirme And whereas you make a proviso Alwayes provided every thing bee consonant and no way repugnant to the word of God To what purpose is this when the very liberty you give of altering Church-government and Discipline as may be sutable to humane Laws and Customes is it self repugnant and no way consonant to the word of God as we shall shew by and by This is transformare Ecclesiam in humanam politiam to transforme the Church into a humane Politie * Hae imaginationes omnibus aetatibus inde usque ab initio mundi nocuerunt Ecclesiae semper nocebunt These imaginations or fancies have in all ages from the beginning of the world hurt the Church and will alwayes huâ—t Thus the Harmony * Now brother whereas you seem to challenge us infallibly to evidence by any Gospel Text that Christ hath peremptorily prescribed one and the self-same form of Ecclesiasticall government Discipline Rites to all Nations Churches in all particulars from which they may in no case vary under pain of mortall sin schisme or being no true Churches of Christ with whom good Christians may not safely communicate First what evidence from Scripture can you bring why it should not necessarily be so You would seeme to make this a ground why Church-government Discipline Rites should be alterable according to the severall laws and customes of severall Nations Because say you Christ enjoyned the preaching of the Gospel to all Nations and People whatsoever who have their severall established defferent formes of Civill government Laws Manners Rules and Customes sutable to their respective dispositions Climes Republicks By this reason you might argue that therefore the Gospel it self may be preached variously according to the variation of the climate and if not so then say I neither is the Church-government and Discipline to be varied according to the diversity of Nations Laws Customes Climates For brother the Church-government and Discipline now in the time of the Gospel is a part of the Gospel as being the Gospel-government and Discipline of the Evan 〈…〉 l Churches And brother why should you think that Christ now under the Gospel or New Testament hath â—eâ—t a greater liberty to men to alter that form of Church-government and Discipline which in the New Testament is laid down then he did in the Old Testament under the Leviticall Law What a strict charge did this Law-maker give to Moses See saith he that thou do all things according to the pattern shewed thee in the Mount He must not vary one pin * But some will say When the Tribes of Israel were reduced under a kingly
government as in Davids time the service of God was in greater state and externall pomp when the Temple was built then it was before in the Tabernacle whereby it may appear that there was a liberty left to David to alter the form of worship so as was sutable to the Regall state But I answer Here was no liberty left to man to alter any thing in the worship of God or in the Church-government For God was so exact in this that he would not leave it to David himself though both a King and a Prophet and a man after Gods own heart to set up what worship he pleased in the Temple but God gave him an exact patterne of all and that not onely by his Spirit but in writing that he might neither adde nor omit in the least tittle 1 Chron. 28. And you know it was never left to the Kings of Judah to do the least thing in point of Reformation but onely to see that the Priests do all strictly not any thing as seemed good to them but all according to the precise rule of the Law 2 Chron. 31. Now was the great Law-giver so strict under the old Testament and is he grown more remisse under the New In Ezekiels vision of the Temple or Church in the time of the Gospel Ezek. 43. 10 11. wee reade of a patterne form fashion of everie particular thing of the House of God which is his Church exactly set down and measured by Gods own speciall direction Or are men more wise and more faithfull now then David was that Christ should trust every Nation with such a liberty as this to alter and diversifie Church-government and Discipline so as might be most agreeable to this or that Kingdoms Common-weales Countreys custome commodity conveniencie And as for your Nationall Church here mentioned we shall take a just measure of it when we come to your ninth Question And whereas you quote in the Margine 1 Cor. 14. 40. 11. 34. on which you ground your liberty to form your Church-government Discipline sutably to each particular Civill government Alas brother these very Scriptures our Prelates abused to maintain their unlimited liberty of setting up their rites and ceremonies as sutable to the Civil government which absurdity I have fully refelled in my Reply to Canterburies Relation Whereas the Apostle there exhorteth that all things be done decently and in order according to those rules they had received of him to which agreeth the other place alledged by you Other things will I set in order when I come as Titus 1. 5. He left Titus in Crete that he might set in order the things that remained but all according to the Apostles direction for Church-government and choice of Officers And we should have a mad world of it if civill States in severall Countreys should have liberty to frame Church-government and Discipline as should most sute with their particular conditions This liberty is that which both Ecclesiasticall and Civill States usurping turned the spirituall Kingdom of Christ over Consciences and Churches into a temporal and secular Kingdom or rather indeed an Anti-christian Tyranny or Hierarchy so as by this means it came to passe that the second Beast ascending out of the earth to wit the Pope Revel. 13. 11. commands the inhabitants of the earth to make an image that is to set up a forme of Religion and Church-government sutable to the Image of the first Beast to wit the Imperiall State of Rome And thus came to be erected the Hierarchicall Church-government in all pomp and points sutable with the Romane Monarchy So dangerous is that libertie which brings such bondage According to that Licentia sumus omnes deteriores this brings not liberty but licentiousnesse Your second Question is Whether if any Kingdome or Nation shall by a Nationall Councell Synod and Parliament upon serious debate elect such a publick Church-government Rites Discipline as they conceive to be most consonant to Gods Word to the Laws Government under which they live and manners of their people and then settle them by a generall Law all particular Churches members of that Kingdome and Nation be not therefore actually obliged in point of * conscience and Christianity readily to submit thereto and no wayes to seek an exemption from it under pain of being guilty of arrogancie schisme contumacie and liable to such penalties as are due to these offences I answer That is Whether the Kingdome and Nation of England c. The summe is you would here make way for a politicall State Church-government or a mixt Church-government partly according to Gods word and partly to the Laws and government under which we live and partly to the manners of the people Humano capiti cervicem jungere equinam Or populout placerent c. Truly brother your very question is hereticall you must pardon the expression which otherwise would not come home to the full truth And your word Elect imports no lesse For Elect taken in that sense as you here apply it to set up a form of Religion of Church-government and Discipline with Rites and ceremonies sutable to the Laws and customes of a State and manners of the people and AS MEN CONCEIVE is of the same signification with {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} which signifieth a taking up an heresie upon humane election or as you say As they conceive For you say not Such a Church-government c. as is most consonant to Gods word but such as they conceive to be most consonant So as you hang your Church-government upon mens conceit or opinion of consonancy with Gods word and not upon a reall and essentiall consonancy Just like the Prelate of Canterbury who in his Relation hangs the credit of the Scripture upon the Author and the opinion we have saith he of his sufficiency Which I have noted in my Reply But thus you open a wide sluce to let in an ocean of inundation of all sorts of Religion into all parts of the vvorld vvhen every Religion shall be measured by the line of mans conception what men CONCEIVE agreeable to Gods word Thus might Henry 4. the late French King to make his way the easier to the Crown through so many difficulties apostatize from the Protestant Religion and turn to Popery as conceiving it sutable to the word of God to comply with the State of France and the manners of the people for the establishing of his kingdome as he conceived though he was deceived by becoming himself a Popish King And so Jeroboam with his Counsell might CONCEIVE it agreeable enough to Gods word to set up his Calves most sutable to the new laws and customes of that State and to the manners of the people who are apt enough to embrace idolatry and superstition as Ephraim willingly walked after the commandment Hos. 5. 11. And so in the rest Now that is an heresie which is an error conceived and maintained against the word of God
of arrogancy schisme câ—ntumacy and lyable to such penalties as are due to these offences Good Brother be not so legall What if that resolution of an Assembly and that Generall Law for the confirmation of it be such as the conscience of godly people cannot without sinne submit thereunto Must they either violate their consciences or bee undone by your unavodable intolerable penalties as both to suffer in their good names for Arrogant contumatious Schismatickâ— yea and in their Consciences too under the guilt of these and to bee liable to I wot not what penalties besides and no waies to seeke an exemption from it Why good Brother if we should goe and live under the Turkish Government and could not in conscience turne Turkes in the Religion there by Law established yet there is a way to seeke an Exemption from it namely by becomming Tributary to that State as many Christians doe Good Brother let 's not have any of Dracoes Lawes executed upon Innocents And remember how not long agoe the Prelates served us we could not have the benefit of Law of Appeale no exemption from bloud letting and eare-cropping and pillorying c. And shall wee now turne worse persecutors of the Saints then the Prelates were Non ignara mali miseris succurrere disco saith that heathen Princesse But in the margent you put some places of Scripture to prove this But truly when I well view the places I find them not to answer to what you would seeme to prove by the Quotation The first is 1 Cor. 14. 32 33. For the Spirit of the Prophets is subiect to the Prophets And what of this Ergo the Spirit of all the Prophets in England must be subiect to the Prophets in the Assembly upon paine of being guiltie of Arrogancy Schisme Contumacy and liable to such penalties as are due to these offences O brother Prynne you must as well note as quote the place But let me note it for you The Apostle there speaks both to and of the Church of Corinth when assembled together in one place that the Prophets should observe order and give place each to other in Prophecying as the reason is rendered and not of any such Assembly of that sublime and supreame Authoritie or the onely Prophets to whom all other Prophets wheresoever dispersed must be subject Ver. 33. For God is not the Author of confusion but of peace as in all Churches of the Saints Which place also is no lesse wide from your purpose What Will there be no peace but all confusion unlesse all be subject to the Assembly upon such paine as before The Apostle speaks here of the Order to be observed in every Church as in all the Churches of the Saints The other places quoted by you are no lesse misapplyed Will they prove trow you blind obedience But come on brother if you will needs put us upon such hard exigents as to give us no quarter without present laying down our Armes and cause and so captivating our consciences to the Dictates and Decrees of men If you will make no covenant with us but upon this one onely condition that you might thrust out all our right eyes and if there bee no other remedy yet give us leave to capitulate with you about some terms of accomodation that wee may not altogether betray our consciences and liberties which our Redeemer Christ hath so dearly purchased for us And the first and main is this First brother make it cleare unto us that an Assembly of men learned pious what you will living in ages succeeding the Apostles have or ever had infallibility of judgement so as to say as Acts 15. 28. It pleased the holy Ghost and Us to make these Decrees that so wee may without further scruple of conscience submit and conforme thereunto But I say you must give us very good assurance and evidence hereof that they are infallibly guided by the holy Ghost that when they shall say It pleased the holy Ghost and Us we may safely believe them For when you can resolve us of their conclusions no further then as they conceive to bee consonant to the word of God Alas Sir you leave us in a Wood or Maze whence no extricating of our selves without Ariadnes thread Gods word to set us where wee were before For you knew what variety of conceits many men have Quot capita tot sententiae This is the first and main condition we stand upon and truly it were sufficient alone We might in a second rank but not equall to the former name a selfe-deniall and humble spirit c. You know the story of the Monkes of Bangor comming before Austin the first Archbishop of Canterbury whom they seeing to fit in his Pontificall Chaire and not rising up nor moving unto them they left him as a man noâ— sent of God And so if wee should behold men carrying themselves loftily over their brethren who are not of their Counsell we should be apt to suspect that Christs Spirit is not there because there is not the spirit of humility neither the Spirit of truth to be found A Cardinall in the Conclave at Viterbium after almost three yeares agitation about the election of a new Pope as many yeares as we have been about to set up a Reformation and the foundation not yet laid each Cardinall ambitiously a spiring to be the Pope one of them rose up and said Domine c. let us uncover the roose of this Chamber seeing the holy Ghost cannot get in unto us through so many tiles But this by the way And so enough of this question The third and fourth Questions I come now to your third and fourth question But lest my answers may prove too voluminous and so fastidious to everyday-newes Readers I shall in the rest contract my selfe And this I must doe by trussiâ—g up your questions within the list of a Syllogisme respectively For as I noted before all your questions are rather conclusive then interrogatory rather positive resolutions then unresolved questions The summe therefore of your third and fourth questions for this dependeth on that is reduced into this Syllogisme That which hath sufficient if not best warrant for it in the New Testament the examples of the Primitive Church c. most prevents heresies schismes injustice is to be received as a true and undoubted Church-Government and to be preferred before that which hath no such expresse warrant in Scripture no patterne for it in the Primitive or best reformed Churches c. But the Presbyteriall forme of Church-government if rightly ordered hath sufficient if not best warrant for it in the New Testament c. The Independent not so Therefore the former is to be preferred and received before the latter without any long debate The Answer Both your Propositions are lame and interfeere one against the other Sufficient if not best warrant will not prove so sufficient a warrant as if there be found a better
this question as I find them scattered along I shall glean them and so bundle them up for a conclusion at this time For this question seems to be a Lerna of Queries And first you quarrell the Title of Independencie Truly brother none of all those whom you thus intitle doe at all glory in this name so as to give you thanks for your so often stiling them thus in one poore sheet of paper seeing thâ—y cannot imagine you doe it honoris gratia while every where you set it as a brand Notwithstanding we are not so ashamed of it as utterly to disclaime it and that for two reasons First for distinction sake between us and that which you call your Presbyteriall government The second is because this word Independent is to signifie that we hold all particular Churches of Christ to bee of equall authority and none to have or exercise jurisdiction over another but that each Church is under Christs government as the sole Head King Lord Law giveâ— thereof But wee would not that you should give us this as a nick name or a name of reproach or badge of scorne noâ— that you should call us so as if we denied subjection to civill authority in matters of civill government nor yet that you should mean such an Independeâ—cie as if we held not good correspondence with all sister-Churches by way of conseciation consultation communion communication mutuall consolation supportation and in a word in all things duties offices as wherein Christs Kingdom is held up the graces of the Churches exercised the liberties of each Church preserved intire which is the glory of Christ which we have touched before And therefore brother you mightily mistake the matter when you interpret Independency as not needing both the Communion and assistance of other persons Nations Churches Then secondly you question Whether the Nationall Covenant dothin sundry respects strongly ingage the Nation against Independency Truly brother not at all so long as all our Reformation is to be reduced to and regulated by the word of God And that is a sure foundation whereon our Independencie dependeth In which respect the Nation is by the Covenant â—â—gâ—ged for Independencie Thirdly you queree whether if Independencie rightly taken still as before if stript of all disgâ—ising pretences be not Pharisaicall vainglorious selfe-conceitednesse c. Here brother you lash us with a whip of many cords but that our armour is pâ—ooâ— So you have done more then ten times yea all along And that all this should come from a friend a brother a suffeâ—er from a companion counsellor how hard is it to be born 〈…〉 you tell us of disguising pretences if stript and for this you have provided an unmaâ—king for us O brother we have no such dâ—sguisings as to feare your unmaskings We may in this boldly answere with the Apostle 1 I hess 2. 3. 4. 5. And for Pharisaicall Spirituall pride vain-glory singularity selfe-constitednesse of superlative holinesse which as dirt you throw so liberally in our face To this brother I will say no more but this Sâ— sat est accusasse quis innoeens erit It a bare and malicious accuâ—aâ—ion be eâ—ouâ—h to fasten a crime who shall be innocent And did you ever enter into our hearts to see what secret spirituall tumours and apostumations be there and if not how come you presently in the very same sentence and with the same breath to blow all this besmearing dust into your owne face For you charge us with passing uncharitable censures upon mens hearts and spiritual â—states of which say you God never made us Iudges and forbids us for to judg because he onely knowes mens hearts as was noted before Now then brother why doe you thus judge the hearts and spirituall estates of your brethren Consider it well in cold blood And brother what doe you see in the Independencie that you should thus judg them The Tree is knowne by the Fruits Are they ambitions of preferments of glory of the world of favour of great ones of praise of men that doe voluntarily forsake all and strip themselves of all to follow naked Christ Pharisees indeed loved the prayse of men more then the praise of God That 's Pharisaicall so in the rest Therefore brother tell not the world what malice may suggest unto you to think of us but what you â—â—e or observe in us And yet brother the â—nâ—e of charity is that you should first tell your brother privately oâ— his fault before you blaze it to the world But thus at least we come to know our â—aâ—â—t And what is it Wee doe say you dâ—â—m our selves too transcendently holâ— sâ—â—stified and religious aâ—ovâ—o heâ—s that we esteem them altogether unworthy of yea whoâ—â— exclude them from our Communion ourch-society as Publicans heathens or pâ—ofâ—ne â—ersons though perhaps as good or better then our selvs unlesse they will submit to their Church-covenants government refâ—sing â—l true brotherly familiarity society with them So you Now brother Pryn I confesse I am one of thâ—se whom you call Independents and did you ever observe any such supercisious strangâ—nesse of â—â—râ—â—age in me towards you and other of your and my friend 〈…〉 e zealous against Independents then your selfe â—s youchange us withall Have there not been many interchangeable invitations between you and me with loving acceptations whereby we have enjoyed mutuall society in all friendly and brotherly entertainment saving â—â—ill some quarrels about 〈…〉 way but ever parting friends And more frequent it had been had your occasions and sometimes mine owne permitted And neither at this day since these youâ— invectives came forth though they were no small griefe to me and that even for your sakâ— am I become a greater stranger to you either in face or affection then I was be oâ—â— For I am so perswaded of your good nature thar did you truly epprehend and dive into the mystery of Christs Kingly government in his Churches and Children certainly you would never have thus sharpened and imbittered your style against your brethren the Lord open your eyes to see it But however brother either be more moderate in censuring or else censure not at alâ— without juâ—â— cause But we exclude say you as good or better then our selvs from communion and Church-society with us Surely it may be so but brother we exclude them not but they exclude themselves And you give the reason because they wil not submit to the Churches government But it doth not hence follow that wee therefore deem either our selves so transcendeâ—tly holy as you say or others altogether unworthy But brother we esteem the government of Christs Church so holy as we cannot think them fit to be admitted be they never so good that think so slightly of the way and of them that walk in it that they refuse to agree to walk in this way with the people of God Would you admit of a member into your family who
is disaffected with your courses and orders of the family What cause then hath he to complain if upon knowledge thereof you refuse to entertain him If therefore every family should be carefull to provide for its own peace by having all in it of like affection and judgement if possible why not Christs owne house and family And brother the truth is for we love no disguising as to need any unmasking wee love not in a time of reformation after a generall tincture of superstition and will-worship blindly to goe to work to admit of all commers and to cast Christs Pearles and holy things to such as we know not Or if we bâ— perswaded they be truly godly and yet they are not perswaded of the warrantablenesse of this way how can they with a good conscience desire communion with us And if not how can the Church receive them Nor indeed doe any such offer themselves nor doth the Church impose any such conditions as a godly Christian hath cause not to accept We desire to doe those things that please God namely such as he commends and commands Rev. 2. 2. Christ commends the Angell of the Church of Ephesus for not hearing with those that are wicked and for trying those that sayd they were Apostles and were not but were found lyâ—rs So some may come that professe themselves to be Christians that is to be godly to be beleevers but we dare not receive them without triall if they refuse to be tried we may the more suspect them And what interest hath any to Church Communion that is not a member or to the seal that is not in Covenant And we love not to do that for which to repent afterwards We desire all our members may be such as they may peaceably and sweetly continue with us We are loath to have the world offended by the unworthy walking of any one member And we desire by our best providence to prevent that none once admitted should ever be cast out again And brother all this we hold to be our duty for the preferring of the honour of Christ and of his Ordinances and of his Churches in the beauties of holinesse Others may take a broader way if they please wee dare not The Church and body of Christ is not of so slight account with us as that we should carelesly and promiscuously admit of every one that offer themselves without some triall of them both for the Churches satisfaction and for the account shee must make to Jesus Christ How strict the Jews were Airsworth in Gen. 12. v. 17. relates out of the Râ—â—bines And even Bellarmine himselfe had such a cleare apprehension of the generall nature of Christs Church though himselfe did not experimentally and particularly know it that hee useth thâ—se words Ecclesia precipâ—è c. The Church especially and intentionâ—lly gathereth onely beleevers such as have true faith in their heart And when any hypocrites are mingled among such as truly beleeve not iâ— falleth out besides the intention of the Church For if it could know them it would never admit them or being casually admitted it would so thwith exclude them Thus Bellâ—rmi e which he sets down as a most true speculative Prinple though but ill applied and worse practised by him and his and such like which yet all true Churches should be carefull to observe and pot in practice And truly brother we desire to do this that if it be possible no misbeleever no prophane liver no hypocrite be admitted a member of Christs body though an hypocrite having his viz rd on may sometimes * creep in unawares into the Church And therefore diligent circumspection is used for prevention And â—urpius ejicitur quam non admittitur hâ—sâ—es A guest is in refairly kept out then cast out This brother is our course that we hold in admitting of members we think we cannot be too wary though too strict we are not We suspect the gold that will not abide the touch A Christian name may silver over the copper such as the Scripture calls reprobate silver Ierem. 6. 30 Though we know each currant coin hath its allowance of allay and each beleeving Saint so many grains allowance but all sincere no thing counterfeit And as for Church covenant we have sufficiently spoken before The last charge you lay upon Independencie is uncharitablenesse carelesnesse and neglect of one another welfare and the like Brother for uncharitablenesse let our practises the best proofes of true charity plead for us We â—â—ve manifested our love and loyalty to the State whereof we are natural and politicall members For the safety thereof we have powred out our estates to the very bottome We dare herein compare with all others of our rank and meanes My selfe a poore man am out for the State between foure and five hundred pounds and I blesse God I have done it with a cheerfull heart nor for squint respects to lay out so much at once to receive of the State so much annuity Yet I speak it not to glory but you have compelled me And besides their means none have more prodigally adventured and spent their lives for the State then your Independents have and for none hath the God of Battels appeared more And but for stirring up envie which needs not I should put you in mind of Marston-moore In a word brother we dare challenge all the world in point of fidelity to the State and our native countrey Where be they that more love honour our Senat Synod Synâ—drion Who pray more frequently more fervently for them So that herein you cannot say we are Independents as for want of true love and that of the best kind to the publick Cause and State from which our Independencie is so farre from separating our hearts and affections with all our abilities to serve it as that it hath cleared it self to be as fast firmly united unto it as any other whatsoever And for true charitablenes brother where is it to be found if not in those Churches you call Independent But you will say this love is among our selves And God grant it may ever be so Yet it ends not here but extends to all And brother for a close I challange you to shew me any one parochiall Congregation in England where in there is or can be the like love one to another the like care one for another the like spirituall watchfulnesse one over another the like union and communion of members in one mysticall body in a sympathy of affections in such a fraternitie as is described Psal. 133. a lively type of a true Church of Christ Till you shew us the like in any of your Parochiall Assemblies consisting of your mixed multitude good brother restrain your spirit so mightily imbittered against us lest in charging us with uncharitablenesse your self alone be found to be uncharitable And so I have done with your first twelve Questions A VINDICATION OF CHURCHES COMMONLY CALLED INDEPENDENT OR AN
ANSVVER To Mr. PRYNNES second Book MY deare Brother to your twelve new Interrogatories I present you with a new Answer I call it new because I shall cull out such passages as I find new or not so much insisted on in your former twelve Which as they are fewer so I shall be the shorter for as much as in the former I have been the larger But brother I find not that in your Book which you pretend in your Title to wit the Unmasking of Independency Nor can we expect it of you for in your Proeme you say that the Independents have not dogmatically and in direct termes discovered the full truth of what they assert If not what kind of visage will you discover when you have taken off the mask Surely by your handling of the matter you mean to unmask some hags face such as pleased the Painter Which when you have done it will appeare to all the wise-hearted that it is not the face of Independency as wherein there shines forth such a beauty as it seemeth you yet never saw In your Preface to the Courteous Râ—â—der you say We politickly conceale the principall grounds and more deformed parts of our Church-Platforme for feare of miscarrying Good brother who told you soâ— Remember your own lesson before Judge not But indeed had you reproved us yet in love and meeknesse for not setting forth more fully a compleat Modell of this fabrick or spirituall house it had been something Which yet if it were done you would not impute it to policy that it was not sooner done But when it is exactly done you will find no deformed parts at all in it but contrariwise a greater beauty then in that famous Temple that Solomon built as being the spirituall Temple of Jesus Christ so as I am sorry you are put to the paines of pumping out our determinations as you say by your Questions When as you should rather find it as a fountaine flowing forth in the streets But brother how doe you write by Question not decision as you say when your Questions prove to be decisions as your former twelve are And what doe you els but refute upon bare conjectures Andabatarum more pugnando as those at blind-man-buff For your Charges upon us are very sore and as many doe say bitter so farre beyond reason as you are not able truly to say Wherefore For your first Question Whether the Independent forme of Church-government be anywhere to be found in the Old or New Testament this we have resolved in your former Twelve Questions so as this is no new Interrogatory unlesse you put the greater difference between Questions and Interrogatories And though it were in no antiquitie which yet we have shewen before neverthelesse if it be found in the Scripture as there it is whatsoever clouds of the mastery of iniquitie have darkened the lustre of it for so many hundred yeares yet this cannot plead prescription against it For if Nullum tempus occurrit Regi then surely no tract of time can prescribe against the law of Christs kingdome which we finde upon sacred record But where say you Why brother this House of God wherein Christ rules as King stands upon so many Principles as so many maine pillars not to be shaken As 1. It is a spirituall house whose onely builder and governour is Christ and not man 2. It is a spirituall kingdome whose onely King is Christ and not man 3. It is a spirituall Republick whose onely Law-giver is Christ and not man 4. It is a spiritual Corporation or body whose onely head is Christ and not man 5. It is a Communion of Saints governed by Christs Spirit not man's 6. Christs Church is a Congregation called and gathered out of the world by Christs Spirit and Word and not by man These Principles are such as the Adversaries themselves of this kingdome of Christ cannot dare not deny And out of these Principles doe issue these Conclusions 1. That no man is the builder of this spirituall house 2. That no man nor power on earth hath a kingly power over this kingdome 3. That no earthly Law-givers may give Lawes for the government of this Republick 4. That no man may claime or exercise a headship over this Body 5. That no man can or ought to undertake the Government of this Communion of Saints Item That none are of this Communion but visible Saints Ergo a true visible Church of Christ cannot be defined or confined to a parochiall multitude Item â—hat that Government of this Communion is not extrinsecall but intrinsecall by the Spirit of the Word and by the Word of the Spirit 6. That men may not appoint limit constitute what Congregations of all sorts they please to be Churches of Christ as Nations and Parishes But you confesse in generall Christ to be the Builder the King the Law-giver the Head the Governour the Caller the Gatherer of his Churches If you doe you must approve of those Churches you call Independent as whereof Christ is the onely Builder King Law-giver Head Governour Caller and Gatherer If you doe not in denying Christ in these relations you deny Christ in his absolute Regalitie But in your Answer to your Antiquerist pag. 6. you doe in part grant Christ to be King internally in the soule which you say may passe for tolerable O brother No more but may passe for toleráble You that are so lâ—rge-â—earred to your friends are you so strait-laced to Christ Surely Brother Christ is the full and sole King raigning in the heart and conscience of every true beleever It were intolerable not to grant this in its full latitude But you absolutely deny Christs sole kingly Government externall over his Churches Brother this is no lesse Christs kingly Prerogative then the former Hee that is King over every part of the body must needs be King over the whole body It therefore Christ be the only King over every mans conscience so as no man nor power on earth may sit with him in this his Throne then consequently by the seâ—f-same reason must he by the Word of the kingdome as the only Law thereof exercise his kingly office over his Churches so as no humane power or law may intermeddle to prescribe rules for the government or forms of this spirituall House and Kingdome For otherwise if man should set up a form of Government over the Church of Christ to which all must conforme then of necessitie should man bâ— Lord over the couscience which is the highest presumption against the most High And then what mischiefs would followâ— What intolerable tyrannie over the conscience Then must your words ibid. come to passe If a moderated or regulated Epâ—scopacie the same with Presbyterio should by the Synods advice be unanimâ—usly established in Parliament as most consonant to the Scriptures and most agrerable to the Civill Government I shall readily submit unto it
equity Now in your premises there is neither reason nor equity because no truth in them 2. Christ hath not delegated his Kingly office to any Princes Magistrates Parliaments to set up any form of worship or Church-government of their devising or conceiving no more then hee did to all or any of those you reckon up in the Old Testament I pray God give you a better understanding in this mystery of Christ and godly sorrow for these things Take then the counsell of this great King Bee wise therefore and understand and kisse this King this Sonne of God by obeying him in all that he saith as being not onely the onely King but the onely Prophet of his Church as before whom whoso heareth not IN ALL THINGS shall even be cut off from his people But how then doe you say This is a part of Christs Kingly office not Priestly or Propheticall to set up a government and hee hath not communicated those other offices to Princes and Parliaments Whereas Christ doth in all things regulate his Kingly office by his Prophetical office And again how say you Christ hath not given his Kingly office to Ministers but onely his Priestly and Propheticall and yet you make an Assembly of Ministers as Rector Chori to be the leaders and guides to a Form of Reformation and that necessarily And denying such to bee Kings or to have a Kingly office you exclude them out of the Albe of those faithfull ones whom Christ hath made a * Royall Priesthood even * Kings and Priests to God his Father But so much of this second Interrogatory The third Interrogatory Touching this 1. Wee assume not the power to gather Churches but being sent or called to preach the Word of the Kingdome thereby people thus called of God come to be gathered into Church-fellowship and so by consent doe chuse their Officers 2. Such as are thus called to acknowledge Christ their onely King were not begotten to this acknowledgment by such Ministers as you speak of who deny disclaime and preach against Christs Kingly government over mens consciences and Churches So as such a conversion as you speak of comes not home to whole Christ and such with their converters doe deny Christs Kingly government what kind of converts call you these Or at least and best they are converted but in part and that main thing wanting to wit Christs Kingly office they come up to by the preaching thereof 3. Such Ministers when they set up Christs government may being agreed upon by all sides have those Parishioners again that for want of it at the first went from them 4. Our solemne Vow and Covenant obligeth us not to any thing that is prejudiciall to the authority of Gods word and the libertie of a good conscience considering how Churches are gathered out of all the world not this place nor that not this house nor that but out of * every nation such as fear God and * out of every house the sons of peace out of * every Citie or Town all that receive the Gospel are called and gathered to Christ 5. Concerning Christian liberty in joyning to severall Churches as in the same house some to affect one some another you know what Christ saith Luke 12. 51 52 53. And it is God that perswadeth Iâ—phâ—t to dwell in the Tents of Shem. And brother all that noyse you make all along with extreame aggravations as Confusion Distraction implacable Contestations Schismes Tumâ—lts c. What are they but the very out-cries which the Prelats ever used for the crying and keeping up of their Hierarchy built upon the same sandy foundation This is well noted in the Harmony of Confessions Sect. 11. Confession of Ausburg These Senater-like Declamations though they be very plausible and incense the mindes of many against us yet they may be confuted by most true and substantiall arguments As All the Prophets and Apostles were true lovers of the peace and concord of Nations and people yet were they constrained by the commandement of God to warre against the Devils kingdome to preach heavenly doctrine to collect a Church unto God and the like And The true doctrine of God and his true worship must needs be embraced and received and all errors that tend to the dishonor of God must be abhorred and forsaken though all the world should break and fall down And much more there 6. Though we are fully perswaded by Gods Word and Spirit that this our way is Christs way yet wee neither doe nor dare judge others to be reprobates that walk not with us in it but we leave all judgement to God and heartily pray for them we our selves have been formerly ignorant of it therefore wee pitie others 7. Where you object that under pretence of Christian liberty whole Houses Parishes Counties may thus come to be divided into severall formes of Churches as some for the Presbyteriall some for the Hierarchicall and so cause Schismes and ruines or at least unavoidably subvert all ancient bounds of Parishes all setled maintenance for the Ministery by tythes c. Brother for Christian libertie who shall perswade the conscience or who hath power over it but he that made it even God the onely Judge thereof And for difference of mens judgements in points of Religion how can it be avoided And yet it followes not that upon such differences should come ruine to a State What serveth the Magistrate and the lawes of a civill State for but to keep the peace And as for Parishes will you allow no Churches but Parishes Or are Parishes originally any other but of humane politicke and civill constitution and for civill ends Or can you say that so many as inhabit in every Parish respectively shall bee a Church Should such Churches and Parishes then necessarily be Churches of Gods calling and gathering Are they not congregations of mans collection constitution and coaction meerly What Churches then And as for Tithes what Tithes I pray you had the Apostles Such as be faithfull and painfull Ministers of Christ he will certainly provide for them as when hee sent forth his Disciples without any purse or provision he asked them Lacked you any thing They said Nothing Surely the labourer is worthy of his hire And as for Ministers maintenance by Tithes I referre you to the judgment of your learned brother Mr. Selden And as for your Independent Ministers they plead no other maintenance then the New Testament holds forth yet not denying the Magistrate and State a power to appoint maintenance for the preaching of the word as is done in New England to those that are not members of Churches And where you charge them for having the faith of Christ in respect of persons as if they admitted the rich rather then the poore Brother I hope it is not so with others I am sure not so with me And lastly for your marginall young Interrogatories As 1. Of how many members
never so wicked But to your reasons First For else say you Paul and Barnabas being Apostles themselves might have decided that controversie at Antioch without sending to Ierusalem Answ. 1. By your favour brother Barnabas was not to speak properly an Apostle though an Apostolicall man 2. They argued with those Legalists at Antioch sufficiently to convince them but they comming from Judea and pretending the use of circumcision and Moses Law to be still in force in the Church at Jerusalem and the controversie being between two great parties the Christian Jews and Christian Gentiles hereupon the Church at Antioch thought it requisite for the fuller satisfaction to all parties to send Paul and Barnabas to the Apostles and Elders at Jerusalem And 3. because Paul and Barnabas are thus sent doth it follow that they were not sufficient yea Paul alone as an Apostle infallibly guided by the holy Ghost to have decided the question at Antioch As no doubt sufficiently they did though not so satisfactorily to all And 4. that they are thus by the Church at Antioch sent to the Apostles and Church at Jerusalem here is a good example for the use of communion of Churches as in doubtfull cases to consult one with another 2. Else say you the Church at Antioch would have sent to none to resolve their doubts but to the Apostles onely and not to the Elders I answer In that they sent to the Elders also it shewes the respect that one Church should have to another 2. Those Elders were men endowed with the gifts of the holy Ghost 3. Though they had not infallibility as the Apostles had yet their assent to the determination was a witnesse-bearing to the truth thereof 3. Else say you Paul and Barnabas would have put the question to the Apostles onely not to the Elders and Church as well as to them vers. 4 5 6. This is answered in the former 4. Else the Apostles would not have called all the Elders and brethren to consult v. 6. when themselves might have done it alone I answer 1. Though the Apostles might have done it alone yet they would not but called together the Elders and Brethren yea and the whole Church at Jerusalem vers. 4 22. hereby to give a precedent to all Presbyters or Elders of Churches that in cases of difference arising they call the whole Church together for assistance and counsell therein 2. In so doing the Apostles diminished nothing of that Judicial power and authority which Christ left with them for deciding of controversies being infallibly guided by the holy Ghost while they thought it not fit to doe such things in a corner which concerned the whole Church 5. Peter and Iames say you would not have argued the case so largely and proved it by Arguments and Scriptures as they did one after another but have peremptorily resolved it without dispute had they sate and determined it by their extraordinary infallible power I answer This followes no more then the former For the Arguments they used with the conclusion were by the direction of the holy Ghost And 2. The holy Ghost is not so peremptory but will have his truths examined by the Scriptures as Acts 17. 11. The Bereans are commended by the holy Ghost for examining Pauls Sermon by the Scripture though hee were an Apostle and spake by the holy Ghost And 3. the Churches assent was taken in for a witnesse ex abundanti 6. The finall resolution say you Letters and Canons of this Synod had run onely in the Apostles names had they proceeded onely by their Apostolicall infallible authority and not in the names of the Elders and brethren too I answer There is as little reason in this as in all the rest of your reasons for then by this reason sundry of Pauls Epistles which were all dictated by the holy Ghost did not proceed from that infallibility of Spirit alone wherewith the Apostle was guided because we find others not Apostles joyned with him As 1 Cor. 1. 1. Paul called to be an Apostle of Iesus Christ and Softhenes a brother to the Church of God c. And 2 Cor. 1. 1. Paul an Apostle of Iesus Christ and Timothy a brother to the Church c. And Gal. 1. 1. Paul an Apostle c. and all the brethren that are with me to the Churche of Galatia c. So Phil. 1. 1. Col. 1. 1. 1 Thess. 1. 1. Paul and Sylvanus and Timotheus to the Church c. In all which places though there was but one Apostle guided with infallibility of the holy Ghost to write the Scriptures yet many brethren are joyned in the salutation of the Churches and yet Paul as Apostle did write those Epistles and not simply as a brother or fellow-servant with them of Jesus Christ Neither are those brethren so named accounted the Pen-men of the Scripture as Paul of right is Thus you see brother there was no necessity that either the Apostles names should be put alone because they only were guided by the Spirits infallibility or that the names of the Elders and Brethren should not be put without a necessary conclusion deduced thence that the Decree there was therefore binding as being the Decree of a Synod and so exemplary for all Parliaments Councels Synods to make the like binding Decrees But good brother for all your punctuall quotations of that Scripture you doe not all this while tell us which is the main of all that which we find in the 28. verse of that chapter IT SEEMED GOOD TO THE HOLY GHOST AND VS TO LAY VPON YOU NO GREATER BVRTHEN THEN THESE NECESSARY THINGS Now brother we chalenge you to shew us any Parliament Councell Synod ever since the Apostles that could or can say thus IT SEEMED GOOD TO THE HOLY GHOST AND VS to determine controversies of religion to make and impose Canons to bind all men c. Shew this to us at this time and we will obey But if you cannot as you never can never let any man presse upon us that Scripture that Synod which hath no parallel in the whole world and so is no precedent pattern for any Councell Synod Parliaments Let me conclude with a passage of the learned and famous Chamierus that grand Antagonist of Bellarmins Bellarmine upon the same Scripture you alledge Act. 15. as also our late Prelates have usually done would deduce the same conclusion that you doe for humane authority in binding mens consciences To which Chamierus thus answereth that this consequence holds not Quia non eadem sit authoritas Apostolorum reliquorum Ecclesiae Pastorum Because there is not the same authoritie of the Apostles and of other Pastors of the Church For with those the Holy Ghost was extraordinarily present so as what they propounded did simply proceed of God But other Pastors have no such extraordinary assistance of the Spirit and therefore their Decrees are not to be paralleld with the Apostles Decrees Which is a speciall difference
an eye to the peoples manners and how they stand affected When the Lord Cromwell had set forth the Primmer or Psalter without the Letany all the Popishly affected which were not a few could not be quiet till they had cried up the Letany again into its old place So as in sine through the love of superstition in the people and the love of the world in the Prelats alias the Reformers many of whom afterwards God reformed and purged in the flames of Martyrdome such a Reformation was set up as for Church-government and Discipline onely translating the Popes headship and setting it upon the Kings shoulders was the very same with that which was in Henry 8. his dayes and is at this day in Rome and did so well sute with the Civill Government and manners of the people that a Generall Law was enacted for the ratifying of that Prelaticall Government and Discipline which hath bred such manners in the people generally to this day as if another Reformation shall be set up wherein the peoples manners shall be no lesse looked upon then in the former as you here doe more then seeme to plead for I can conjecture if not certainly divine what a Reformation both for Church-Government and Discipline your Church of England is like to have For if you aske the Prelaticall party consisting of multitudes of their Priests and of their ignorant and prophane people together with all the Kings Army they will all with one voyce and vote roare it out at the Canons mouth W will have the Bishops Church-government and Discipline continued without alteration If ye aske the ordinary Protestant professors at large they cry No no not that but we will have such a Church-government as under which we may injoy no lesse libertie for our manners then we had under the Prelates But you referre us to the serious debate of a Nationall Counsell Synod Parliament But yet give us leave to put a vast difference between all these and the Scripture Christs owne voyce If they truely informe us of the minde of Christ in the Scripture we will blesse God for it but yet if we can find out the mind of Christ by his immediate voyce we dare not suspend our beliefe and practise of it until we have it at the second hand from men And should we waite never so long upon the issae of their debate commended unto us to be such as men conceive to be agreeable and consâ—nant to Gods Word yet for as much as we dare not * pinne our soules upon mens sleeves as not knowing as one said whither they might possibly carry them therefore we must examine all mens determinations in matters of Religion by * searching the Scriptures and laying every thing to this line and rule For the Bereans are commended as the more noble in that they examined diligently and daily even the Apostles doctrine by the Scriptures and much more are wee to try the spirits of men that are not Apostles and so not immediately inspired by the Holy Ghost with infallibility of truth as never any Generall Councell after the Apostles hath been So as you know how miserably and shamefully Generall Councels have erred The first Councell of Nice consisting of 318. Bishops how did they all agree to bring in a Doctrine of Devills prohibiting Priests marriage had not one Confessor Paphnutius by evidence of Scripture and reason cryed it downe and so swayed the whole Councell And you know very well that Generall Councels as well as Nationall have not infallibilitie of judgement in all things And it cannot be unknowne to you that even this Assembly of Divines are of different judgements about Church-governement and Discipline nor have they perhaps had so much time since their being under the Prelacy as to be throughly informed of the way of Churches commonly called Independent but that many of them may possibly gaine much more knowledge of it by spending some more time and study in it But Sir besides all this you seeme to lead them such a way should they follow you as would necessarily bring them into an inevitable and inextricable errour in case they should elect such a publick Church-government Rites Discipline as they conceive to be most consonant to Gods Word to the Lawes Government under which we live and manner of the people For if they looke upon the manner of the people which they must needs finde to bee for the most part very loose to speake nothing of Ignorants and Popish Malignants some men might conceive that such a Church-government and Discipline were most sutable as doth most comply with and give some indulgence to such manners as cannot easily be brought to enter in at the straite gate and narrow way that leads into Christs kingdome And whatsoever Church-government and Discipline comes not full home in all things to the word of God is not that which is consonant thereunto and so not pleasing unto God and the more consonant it is to Gods Word the more strict and holy it will be found to be and so the lesse consonant to the common prophane manners of this Nation at this day Worthy of our observation is that of the Lord to the Prophet Jeremy Jere. 15. 19. If thou take forth the pretions from the vile thou shalt be as my mouth let them returne unto thee but returne not thou unto them Whereupon the most learned Interpreter as the learned Beza constantly styles him Calvin among many other excellent observations on this place thus concludeth Summa est veritatem Dei non debere flecti ad hominum arbitrium quae Deus non mutatur ita nec verbum ejus ullam varietatem admittit The summe is That the truth of God ought not to bee bended according to mans will or conceit because God is not mutable so neither doth his Word admit of any change Now the forme of Church-governement and Discipline laid downe in the New Testament is a Doctrine of Christ and no more alterable according to the varieties of mens customes and manners in all nations and ages then the Gospel it selfe is which the Apostle would not have to bee altered into another Gospel though another Gospel cannot bee as neither another kingdome of Christ another Church-governement another Church-discipline ought not to be but that alone which we find in Gods Word which must not bee reduced or conformed as a nose of waxe to which the Papists as Hosius and Pighius doe compare the Scripture to the fashions of worldly governments Rom. 12. 2. and popular manners but these must be conformed to the Scripture Hence it may appeare how rough your conclusion of this Question is if to such a generall law as you propose all particular Churches members of this Kingdome and Nation should not yeeld to be actually obliged in point of conscience and Christianitie and readily to submit thereunto and no waies to seeke an exemption from it under paine of being guiltie