Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	communion_n	particular_a	schism_n	3,730	5	9.9397	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20949	The Iesuites shifts, and euasions; or, his deportment in controuersies of religion. Or, A treatise, wherein the causes are examined why Mr. Arnoux the Iesuite, refuseth to answere to seauenteene questions propounded by the ministers of the church of Paris Wherein also the treatise of fiue euasions which he hath added to the examination of our confession, is likewise examined and answered: by Peter Du Moulin.; Fuites et évasions du Sieur Arnoux. English	Du Moulin, Pierre, 1568-1658.	1624 (1624)	STC 7328; ESTC S111074	27,667	44

hee wanteth common sense to content himselfe to learne the beliefe of his aduersaries by their enemies inuectiues or by popular report rather than by their owne confession Whereby it happeneth that all the disputation is a manner of skirmishing in the ayre which striketh no man and a fantasie of an imaginary controuersie forged to storme or bestirre themselues against But this is the manner which at this day they vse with vs for they that preach or write against vs make vs as blacke as Pitch with slanders and forge another confession for vs. When wee reade our Aduersaries writings wee might imagine that they write against another Religion than ours if we saw not our names at the beginning of their Bookes and in the titles of the Chapters And what protestations soeuer wee make that we beleeue nothing that they make vs to say yet they are resolute and will perswade vs that wee doe beleeue it Master Arnoux Booke written against our confession iustifieth the same which in stead of refuting our confession changeth it in such manner that fighting against his owne inuentions his quarrell is against himselfe Whereupon I am forced in a briefe Table to set downe what kinde of confession of the faith our Aduersaries attribute vnto vs and how they paint out our confession like a horrible Monster which they shew vnto the people to get money thereby Peter Cotton the Iesuite made a Booke intituled Catholique Institution at the beginning whereof hee hath made a Preface to those of the pretended reformed Church wherein hee comprehendeth all our beliefe in 28. Articles which are these that follow 1 THat the Children of Christians may be saued onely by the faith of their Parents without baptisme and therefore that baptisme is not absolutely necessary 2 That the Bread in the Supper of our Lord is onely the figure of the Body of Iesus Christ 3 That the Church may erre 4 That we must not allow of any traditions 5 That Angels and Saints which are in glory know not our necessities and cannot heare our prayers 6 That Priests and religious persons may breake their vowes 7 That single life is not to bee preferred before marriage 8 That the Bookes of Macabees Wisdome Ecclesiasticus Tobias the rest of Daniel and Baruc are Apocripha 9 That the Soule of the Sonne of God did not descend into Hell to fetch the soules of the holy Fathers from thence which there stayed for his comming or that before the Ascension of Iesus Christ the soules of the Saints were receiued into Heauen not into Limbus nor into any other third place 10 That we must confesse our sinnes to God onely 11 That faith onely iustifieth 12 That when the fault of sinne is remitted the punishment also is remitted 13 That God did not create men in one and the same condition but that he created some to be saued and the rest to be damned perpetually 14 That euery particular man hath an Angell that watcheth ouer him 15 That it is not lawfull to salute him nor to call vpon him 16 That God doth not suffer sinne to be done but that he will haue it to be done that hee thrusteth vs forward vnto it and constraineth vs thereunto 17 That the Scripture is easie to be vnderstood and that the vnderstanding thereof is giuen vnto all men 18 That there needes no ordinary or extraordinary vocation to preach the Word of God 19 That we must beleeue nothing but that which is written 20 That God hath not giuen power to the Church to remit sinnes 21 That all sinnes are mortall 22 That a man cannot merit by grace 23 That it is impossible to keepe the Commaundements of God although he ayde vs. 24 That God doth not recompence good workes 25 That there is no distinction of blessednesse among the Saints and that they are all equall therein 26 That we must not vse the imposition of hands which the Apostles vsed vpon those of Samaria and Ephesus 27 That the precept to annoynt sicke persons with oyle whereof St. Iames speaketh ought not to be practised in the Church although it was vsed by the Apostles 28 That prayer for the dead was not vsed in ancient times nor yet in the Machabees time Vpon these eight twenty Articles he asketh vs proofes out of the holy Scriptures but he should aske proofes of all these Articles of those that beleeue such things and not of vs to whom all these poynts are in a manner slanderously imputed Vpon the which I will briefly say something to the Reader and run ouer all these Articles 1 IT is false that we say that Children may be saued onely by the faith of their Parents Touching the necessity of Baptisme with water the Church of Rome beleeueth it not The Councell of Trent is of opinion that a vow supplyeth the want of Baptisme with water and our Aduersaries say that the Baptisme of bloud and the Baptisme of the Spirit that is martyrdome and regeneration without baptisme with water may saue a man 2 It is false that wee beleeue that the Bread in the holy Supper is onely the figure of the body of Christ The Scripture teacheth vs that the Sacraments also are seales to confirme and that the bread which wee breake is the communion of the body of Christ 3 It is false that we simply say that the Church can erre The Church that is spoken of in the Creede which is the Church of the Elect cannot erre in deciding of the doubts in faith because it neuer assembleth to decide any thing Touching the visible vniuersall Church it was assembled in the persons of the Apostles which did wholly gouerne it then it could not erre Now it is diuided into particular contrary Churches seperated from communion It is impossible to assemble the same to decide any causes Touching particular Churches as the Greeke Romane and the Syrian c. There are some that may erre and there are some particular Churches wherein it is impossible to be saued that is those that are idolatrous where the benefit of Iesus Christ is corrupted 4 It is false that we reiect all traditions we reiect those onely which add something to the doctrine of faith contayned in the holy Scriptures 5 It is false that we beleeue that Angels and Saints know not our necessities they doe generally know that the Church of God is persecuted and hath great combats to resist The Angels that God hath appointed to be our gardians know our necessities and what estate we are in 6 It is false that we simply say that Priests ought not to keepe their vowes if they make a vow of possible things and conformable to the Word of God they ought to keepe them 7 It is false that we say that single life is not to be preferred before marriage single life that is continent and hath no euill desires hath great commodities and aduantages aboue marriage and more liberty to serue God 8. 9. The eighth and

Iesus Christ himselfe planted as also seeing that the rest of the Apostles hauing left no successors in their Apostles charge why should Saint Peter onely haue one in his Did Iesus Christ euer declare that Saint Peter onely among the Apostles should haue a successor in his charge of Apostle or did Saint Peter euer declare that the Bishop of Rome should be his successour in quality of the head of the vniuersall Church Where is there any one word of this succession vsed in the Word of God As also that the heresies * Leo the second complaineth of Honorius his Predecessor for that by his heresie he had defiled the seat of Rome In the action 18. of the 6. Councell of diuers Popes acknowledged by the Popes themselues and the schismes which haue rent that Seate and which often times haue bin the meanes that of diuers Antipopes contending for the same the wickedest and the most vniust of them intruding himselfe hath carried it away haue partly broken the line of this imaginary succession for to what purpose doth it serue to shew a list of mens names in a picture from Saint Peter to our time if they shew not that the second of them taught as the first did and the third as the second and so by degrees Many hereticall Churches in that manner produce their succession and are nothing the better for that for a succession of a chaire without succession of Doctrine is rather an expulsion than a succession Pag. 120. J●nius lib. ● cap 3. But M●ster Arnoux saith that learned Irenius saith that it is altogether necessary that euery Church should resort and ioyne vnto that of Rome wherein the chiefe Principalitie reci●●● But M●ster Arnoux hauing not in all his Booke alledge● an● place that is not either cut short or falsified would not at the end of his booke begin to alledge them truely For first he addeth this word adherer which is not in Irenius and the word conuenire he translateth resorting whereas it signifieth to land or to come from diuers places into one place And to these two falshoods Master Arnoux addeth a notable corruption of the sense for Irenius by this chiefe Principalitie vnderstandeth the power of the City of Rome because of the emperiall Seate and not of the supremacie of the Bishop or of his Church for that Christians from all Churches arriued at or came to Rome because of the Emperours Seate and of the Senate where they had some affaires to be dispatched As if I should say that from all the Churches of France they come to Paris because the Kings soueraigne Court is there Then we must translate Irenius in this mannner To this Church * Ad hanc Ecclesiam propter potentiam pr ncip●l●atem nece●s● est omnem co●uen●i Ecclesiam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all Churches must necessarily come because of the soueraigne power which is the emperiall power Vpon the same reason the councell of Antiochia in the ninth Canon groundeth the superioritie of the Bishops of great Townes because saith that Councell that all those that haue any businesse come to the Metropolitane City ●or that cau●e it hath beene ordained that the Bishops thereof should haue preheminence of honour Therefore the Church of Alexandria went before Antiochia although the Church of Antiochia was ancienter and founded as it is said by Saint Peter because that among the Cities of the Romish Empire Alexandria according to ciuill order was the second City after Rome and was before Antiochia The 17. Canon of the Councell of Calcidonia speaketh expresly thereof where it is ordained that the order of Ecclesiasticall Dioces should be accommodated according to ciuill and publique forme For conclusion our aduersary immitating as he saith the example of Saint Augustine referreth vs to the Fathers that are not partiall in this cause I maruell why hee doth not rather referre vs to the Word of God which is not partiall no more than the ancient Doctors are and which speaketh with another manner of authority and much more that he referreth the people to the reading of the Greeke and Latine Fathers whose workes are infinite to be read and the vnderstanding of them obscure and which hee knoweth the common people vnderstand not and that out of their workes there are not many places alledged whereupon there is not some question made touching the sense and the interpretation of them And I am much more abasht that he referreth the people to the reading of the Fathers to be resolued in Religion seeing there is not one of the Fathers which the Doctors of the Romish Church doe not censure and often times reproue them For they make themselues Iudges of the Fathers in stead of receiuing the Fathers for Iudges In their bookes of Controuersies you shall see nothing but diuers opinions of the Fathers wherof they choose those whom they please and reiect the rest and many times reiect them all to establish their owne opinions Now to shew that the reason why they referre the common people to the reading of the Fathers is not because the Fathers fauour them but onely to shun the holy Scriptures which they feare and to leade the mindes of the common-people through a way wherein they can neither see nor know any thing I would gladly know whether our aduersaries receiue the Fathers for Iudges in all our Controuersies if they receiued them not for Iudges but in certain poynts why not also in others but if they receiue them for Iudges in all things then they must enter into the lists and let some of them shew vs in the Fathers these seauenteene poynts wherunto hauing beene so often times prest and vrged they are yet to answere 1 For I say and maintaine it that they cannot shew that any ancient Church euer celebrated the Eucharist without communicants as they ordinarily doe in the Church of Rome and many times also without any assistants 2 They cannot shew that any ancient Church kept the people from the communion of the cup. 3 Or that in any ancient Church publique Seruice and the reading of the holy Scriptures was done in a language not vnderstood by the people 4 Or that any ancient Church did forbid or hinder the people from reading of the holy Scripture which is by no meanes permitted without speciall priuiledge in these countries where the Pope is absolutely obayed 5 Or that in any ancient Church they made Images of God and representation of the Trinity in stone or in picture 6 Neither can they shew vs that in any ancient Church the people haue been taught to pray without vnderstanding what they say and to be Barbarians to themselues 7 Or that any ancient Church hath done any seruice to the Images of creatures as kissing clothing kneeling before them or offering vnto them 8 Or that the ancient Church did beleeue that the Virgin Mary is crowned Queene of Heauen and Lady of the World as she is painted in all the

rules not thinking thereon being insensibly thrust into them by the force of reason Whosoeuer will haue no consequences produced abolisheth all common sense and all vse of reason which onely consisteth therein The rules of Lodgique are no Articles of faith but instruments to mannage all knowledge by order and certainty and by consequence also matters of Diuinitie CHAP. VI. The third Euasion THe third Euasion which Master Arnoux saith we vse is that we serue our turnes with the circle in this that we proue those things to be Scripture by our particular spirit and proue that particular spirit by the Scripture Which is false and slanderous We leaue that particular spirit to mad men none of vs makes our selues Iudges of the Scriptures That is the Popes and his Prelates property who being assembled boast that they pronounce Iudgement touching points of faith and beleeue they cannot erre And our Aduersaries say that euery particular person of the Church of Rome doth certainly discerne the true Church which spirit or particular iudgement is meere blindnesse seeing that the poore people haue no other proofe to know that the Church of Rome is the true Church then onely the witnesse that the same Church giueth of itselfe Touching the circle if any serue their turnes therewith it is our aduersaries for they ground the authoritie of the Scripture vpon the testimony of the Church and yet ground the authoritie of the Church vpon testimonies of the Scripture as one that hauing placed the walles of a house vpon the foundation afterward should place the foundation vpon the walles When we aske them how they know that wee must beleeue the bookes of the new Testament They answere and say because the Church saith it and ordaines it to be so and when we say that how know you that wee must beleeue the Church because say they that the bookes of the New Testament say so and ordaine it to be so for there it is written Tell it vnto the Church c. Certainely as often as they alledge the Scriptures to ground and authorize their Church they ouerthrow that which they will haue men to beleeue which is that the authority of the Scripture is grounded vpon the authority of the Church And thereby are tyed to rowle the circle as Diogenes is to his tub and ouerturne their owne wits by this circulation But when we aske one of them and say how know you that your Church teacheth the true Doctrine or how know you that it is conformable to the ancient Church There they are at a stay and the circle rowles no more and so they are dumbe by necessity For how shall they know the true Doctrine seeing the rule of the true Doctrine which is the holy Scripture is hidden from them And how should they know whether their Church is conformable to the ancient Church seeing it is not knowne but by an infinite number of Greeke and Latine Bookes which the people vnderstand not Then the people must know that the Church of Rome teacheth the true Doctrine onely because those that teach it say so which is to belieue at hazard and to haue a humane Religion grounded vpon coniectures without the Word of God and to allow a man to be a witnesse and a Iudge in his owne cause Therefore Master Arnoux giueth markes to know the true Church without speaking of the holy Scriptures Pag. 119. which are all false First The consent of the people But there are a greater number of the people that disagree with the Church of Rome than those that agree therewith And Iesus Christ saith that broad is the way that leadeth to destruction Math. 7.13.14 and many there be which goe in thereat because straite is the gate and narrow is the way which leadeth vnto life and few there be that finde it Then he addeth the testimony of Martyrs a false marke for there shall neuer be any Martyrs found that died for calling vpon Saints or for Transubstantiation or for Purgatory They suffered death for the doctrine of the Gospell for the which our poore Churches haue suffered so many martyrdomes by meanes of the Church of Rome which suffereth no more but maketh martyrs suffer For a third marke he placeth the authority of the Fathers But the Fathers are contrary to the Doctrine of the Romish Church the people cannot looke into them And Master Arnoux speaketh by heare-say for in his Booke he alledgeth but foure or fiue places out of the Fathers which are not found to be false and corrupted For a fourth marke hee puts the eminence of the Doctrine I thinke that by the eminence hee vnderstandeth the excellency which consisteth in purity and conformity to the Word of God Without proofe to say that the Church of Rome hath the purity of Doctrine it is without proofe to pre-suppose that which is in question To the contrary we haue proued against Master Arnoux that Poperie is a heape of errours and a corruption of Christianitie And how should the people know that purity of Doctrine seeing they hide the rule of purity which is the holy Scriptures from them For the last marke hee se●teth succession neuer interrupted It he vnderstandeth a succession of doctrine wee deny it if he vnderstandeth a succession of chaires without Doctrine that succession is nothing Many other Churches also which condemne the Church of Rome haue their succession and that ancienter than the Romane And schismes haue often broken the succession of the Romish Bishopricke And how can the people know any thing touching this succession which cannot be learned but by reading of infinite Histories and Greeke and Latine Authors that haue written for the space of one thousand sixe hundred yeares CHAP. VII The fourth Euasion THe aduersary noteth another Euasion wherewith wee serue our turnes as he saith which is to produce diuers places of Scripture one with another whereof the one serueth to interpret the other For example he saith that wee expound these words This is my body by this place I am the Vine wherein hee slandereth vs. We know well that these words I am the Vine are not the exposition of these words This is my body Wee note not those places I am the Vine I am the dore This cup is the Couenant The rocke was Christ to interpret these words This is my body but to shew that whosoeuer will alwaies take the words of the holy Scripture literally and leaue these interpretations whereby the Scripture expresseth it selfe should often fall into great absurdities and to shew that ordinarily the Scripture nameth the signes and Sacraments by the names of that which they represent CHAP. VIII The fift Euasion THe fift Euasion which Master Arnoux imputeth vnto vs is a Chaos of confused calumniations He saith that we attribute things to the Church of Rome which shee beleeueth not That we charge the Popes with injuries That wee reiect the originall Text of the Scripture that is the Hebrew and the Greeke