be only against Monarchicall power or against fraternall charity which is very much besides the principles of those Protestants who pretend so much to the authority of Councells me thinks he should have remembred there might be Schisme against Consiliatory authority whether this be called so when the Councel actually sitteth or in the unanimity of beleefe in the dispersion of the Churches so that the Doctor supposing he concluded against the Pope hath not concluded himself no Schismatick being separated from the Catholique world in this Chap. he telleth us many things some true some not so but all either Common to us both or not appertaining to the controversie untill he concludes that certainly the Roman Patriarchie did not extend it selfe to all stately and this he does out of a word in Rufinus which he supposeth to be taken in a speciall propriety of Law whereas indeed that Authors knowledge in Grammar was not such as should necessarily exact any such beleefe especially learned men saying the contrary Than he telleth you that the Office of Primats and Patriarchs was the same Sect 22. only authorizing that affirmation from an Epistle of Anacletus He urgeth Gratian too the which as soon as occasion serveth he will tell you is of no Authority but fictitious then he saith there was no power over the Patriarchs his proof is because the Emperor used his secular Authority in gathering of Councels concluding that because the Pope did not gather general Councels therfore he had no Authority over the Universal Church which how unconsequent that is I leave to your judgment but I must not forget here what I omitted to insert before that in his division of schism he omitteth the principal if not indeed in the use of the word by the Antients the only schism which is when one breaketh from the whole Church of God for though a breach made from the immediate superiour or a particular Church may in some sort and in our ordinary manner of speaking be called a schism yet that by which one breaketh away from the communion of the whole Church is properly and in a higher sence called schism and is that out of which the present question proceedeth whereas other divisions as long as both parts remain in communion with the universal Church are not properly schisms but with a diminutive particle so that in this division he left out that part which appertained to the Question In the fourth Chapter he pretendeth to examine whether by Christ his donation Saint Peter had a primacy over the Church where not to reflect upon his curious division I cannot omit that he remembers not what matters he handles when he thinketh the Catholick ought to prove that his Church or Pope hath an Universal Primacie for it being granted that in England the Pope was in quiet possession of such a Primacie the proof that it was just belongeth not to us more then to any K. who received his Kingdom from his Ancestors a time out of mind to prove his pretension to the Crown just for quiet possession of it self is a proof until the contrary be convinced as who should Rebel against such a King were a Rebel until he shewed sufficient cause for quitting obedience with this difference that obedience to a King may by prescription or bargain be made unnecessary but if Christ hath commanded obedience to his Church no length of years nor change of humane affairs can ever quit us from this duty of obedience so that the charge of proving the Pope to have no such Authority from Christ lyeth upon the Protestants now as freshly as the first day of the breach and wil do so until the very last as for his proofs which he cals evidences Sect 5. he telleth us first that Saint Peter was the Apostle of the Circumcision exclusively to the Uncircumcision or Gentiles to prove this he saith the Apostles distributed their great Universal Province into several 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is by his interpretation lesser Provinces and citeth Act. 1. v. 25. where Saint Peter with the other Apostles prayeth God to shew which of the two proposed he was pleased to have promoted to the dignity of being an Apostle this they call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and this rigorous interpreter saith it signifies the special Province Saint Matthias was to have though the Scripture it self expresseth the contrary saying the effect was that afterward he was counted amongst the Apostles could any man not blinded with error make so wretched an interpretation but he goes on presently adding that Saint Peter in the same place calleth these particular provinces 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and will you know what this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or proper place is read the Text and you shall find that Saint Peter speaketh of Judas his going to Hell to receive his eternal damnation Me thinks you should wonder I can go on without astonishment at such blasphemous explications for sure it can be no less so to abuse the Word of God and after this what do you expect His position is as directly against Scripture as if he had done it on purpose the Scripture telling us how by a special Vision Saint Peter was commanded to preach to Cornelius a Gentile first of all the Apostles and himself in the Councel of Jerusalem protesting the same and yet this Doctor can teach he was made Apostle to the Jews exclusively to the Gentiles though all story say the contrary Again if he were made the Apostle of the Jews exclusively to the Gentiles by the same reason St. Paul was made Apostle of the Gentiles exclusively to the sence for the words are like and yet the Scripture teacheth us that where ever he came Sect 7. he preached first to the sence is not this to make Scripture ridiculous but he goes on telling us that the Gentiles exclusively to the Circumcision were the lot of St. Paul by Saint Peters own confession his words are for the uncircumcision or Gentiles they were not Saint Peters province but peculiarly Saint Pauls c. but look on the place and you shall find no word of exclusion as the word peculiarly is and wheron lyeth the whole question so that the Doctors Evidence is his own word against the main torrent of Scripture on either side Again see how he wrongs St. Peter Sect 8 9. and his Jewish profelites where he saies he withdrew from all communion with the Gentile Christians Whereas the Text expresseth no more then that he withdrew from eating with them that is keeping the Gentile diet upon this wisely laid ground he would perswade us followed the division of the Bishoppricks both in Antioch and Rome but bringing not one word of antiquity proving this to have been the cause Sect 18. yet is he so certain of it that he will find a collonie of Jews even in England for fear St. Peter should have touched a Gentile and yet he cites Saint
AN ANSWER To the most materiall parts of Dr. HAMOND'S Booke of Schisme Or a defence of the Church OF ENGLAND Against exceptions of the Romanists Written in A Letter from a Catholique Gent. to his friend in ENGLAND LONDON Printed Anno Dom. 1654. AN ANSWER To the most materiall parts of Doctor Hamonds Book of Schisme c. SIR YOu have been pleased to send me Doctor Hamonds Book of Schisme or a defence of the Church of England against the exceptions of the Romanists as also your letters wherein you lay Commands on me to read it and thereupon to give you my opinion truly Sir both the one and the other could never have come to me in better season for having heard from som of my friends in England a good while since of another book written by one Doctor Ferne to the same purpose as also one lately come out of the Bishop of Deries and of this which you have sent me I was wondering what those who call themselves of the Church of England could say to defend them from Schisme but now your favour in letting me see this of Doctor Hammonds I am freed from my bondage and satisfied in supposition that the most can adde little to what hath been upon that subject of Schisme said by him whom you stile wise and learned and well may he be so but here he hath failed as all men must that take in hand to defend bad lawes which I think to make appeare to you or any indifferent Judge and which I will doe rather upon some observations of severall passages in his booke then consideration of the whole which I will leave for some other who hath more leasure in the meane time I must say with the Poet speaking of some Lawyers in his time Fures â—â—t Pedio Pedius quid Crimina raris libratin Antithetis The Roman Catholique sayes to Doctor Hamond You are an Heretick you are a Schismatick Doctor Hamond replies good English some Criticismes much greefe with many citations out of antiquity indifferent to both parts of the question but to draw neere your satisfaction his first Chap. is for the body of it common to both parts Sect. 9. yet I cannot omit one strange peece of logick at the end of it where he concludeth that the occasion or motive of Schisme is not to be considered but only the fact of Schisme of which position I can see no connection to any premises going before and it selfe is a pure contradiction for not a division but a causelesse division is a Schisme and how a division can be shewed to be unreasonable and causelesse without examining the occasions and motives I do not understand nor with his favour as I think he himselfe Much of the second Chap. is likewise common to both Sect. 3. only he slightly passeth over the distinction of Heresie and Schisme as if he would not have it understood that all Heresie is Schisme though some Schisme be no Heresie Sect. 6. againe treating of Excommunication he easily slideth over this part that wilfull continuance in a just Excommunication maketh Schisme what he calls Mr. Knolls Concession I take to be the publique profession of the Roman or Catholique Church and that nature it selfe teacheth all rationall men that any Congregation that can lye and knoweth not whether it doth lye or no in any proposition cannot have power to bind any particular to beleeve what she sayeth neither can any man of understanding have an obligation to beleeve what shee teacheth farther then agrees with the rules of his owne reason Out of which it followeth that the Roman Churches binding of men to a profession of faith which the Protestants and other Hereticall multitudes have likewise usurped if she be infallible is evidently gentle charitable right and necessary as contrariwise in any other Church or Congregation which pretends not to infallibility the same is unjust tyrannicall and a selfe-condemnation to the binders so that the state of the question will be this Whether the Catholique or Roman Church be infallible or no for shee pretendeth not to bynd any man to tenets or beleefs upon any other ground or title By this you may perceive much of his discourse to be not only superfluous and unnecessary but contrary to himselfe for he laboureth to perswade that the Protestant may be certaine of some truth against which the Roman Catholique Church bindeth to profession of error which is as much to say as he who pretendeth to have no infallible rule by which to govern his Doctrine shall be supposed to be fallible and he that pretendeth to have an infallible rule shall be supposed to be fallible at most because fallible objections are brought against him now then consider what a meeke and humble Son of the Church ought to do when of the one side is the authority of Antiquity and possession such antiquity and possession without dispute or contradictions from the adversarie as no King can shew for his Crowne and much lesse any other person or persons for any other thing the perswasion of infallibility all the pledges that Christ hath left to his Church for motives of Union on the other side uncertaine reasons of a few men pretending to learning every day contradicted by incomparable numbers of men wise and learned and those few men confessing those reasons and themselves uncertaine fallible and subject to error certainly without a bias of interest or prejudice it is impossible for him to leave the Church if he be in it or not returne if he be out of it for if infallibility be the ground of the Churches power to command beleefe as she pretends no other no time no seperation within memory of History can justifie a continuance out of the Church You may please to consider then how solid this Doctors discourse is who telleth us for his great evidence that he saith he who do not acknowledge the Church of Rome to be infallible may be allowed to make certaine suppositions that follow there The question is whether a Protestant be a Schismatique because a Protestant and he will prove he is not a Scismatique because he goeth consequently to Protestant that is Schismaticall grounds I pray you reflect that not to acknowledge the Church to be infallible is that for which we charge the Doctor with Schisme and Haeresie in Capite and more then for all the rest he holds distinct from us for this principle taketh away all beleefe and all ground of beleefe and turneth it into uncertainty and Weather-cock opinion putteth us iuto the condition to be circumferri omni vento Doctrinae fubmitteh us to Atheism and all sort of miscreancie Let him not then over leape the question but either prove this is not sufficient to make him a Schismatick i and an heritique too let him acknowledge he is both In his third Chap. what is cheefely to be noted to our purpose is that his division is insufficient for he maketh Schisme to
Mary to cut off her succession and introduce their own thought fit to strengthen their faction which besides what they might hope from abroad consisted of many Lutherans and Calvenists at home those two Sects having by opportunity of that rupture in H the 8th time spread and nestled themselves in many parts of England Sect 15. Queen Elizabeth being by Act of Parlament recorded a bastard and so pronounced by two Popes and therefore mistrusting all her Catholick Subjects who she feared did adhere to the Queen of Scots title in which she was then likely to be supported by the King of France her Husband was by the advise of men partly infected with Calvinisme or Lutheranisme partly ambitious of making their fortunes cast upon that desperate Councell of changing Religion desperate I say for see amongst what a number of Rocks she was in consequence of that Councel forced to sail witness her adhearing to the Rebels of all her neighbour Kings so provoking them thereby as if the French King had not been taken out of this world and winde and weather fought against the Spanish Armado in all likelihood she had been ruined especially her Catholick Subjects being so provoked as they were by most cruel and bloodie Laws but this by the by though from hence the Reader may judge of reason of changing Religion in her time and what a solid foundation the Church of England hath how far Mr. Mason can justifie the ordination of Queen Elizabeths Bishops Sect 16. I will not now examine but certain it is that the Record if there be such a one hath a great prejudice of being forged since it lay some fifty yeers unknown amongst the Clamors against the flagrant fact and no permission given to Catholicks to examine the ingenuitie of it but howsoever it is nothing to our purpose for whatsoever materiall mission they had by an externall consecration those Bishops who are said to have consecrated them are not as much as pretended to have given them order to preach the Doctrine or exercise the Religion they after did which is the true meaning and effect of mission I cannot end without nothing in his 20 Para the foundation upon which he himself saies his whole defires relyes which is that because the recession from the Romane Church was done by those by whom and to whom onely the power of right belonged legally viz the King and Bishops of this Nation therefore it is no schism that is whatsoever the reason of dividing hath been even to turn Turks or for violating never so fundamental points of Religion yet it had not been schism In his 8th Chapter as far as I understand he divideth schism into formal that is breach of Unitie and material that is breach of Doctrine or Customs in which the Church was united the former he brancheth into subordination to the Pope Sect 4. of which enough hath been said and breach of the way provided by Christ for maintaining the unity of Faith the which he puts in many subordinations without any effect For let us as he Sect 5. if inferior Clergie men dissent from their own Bishops but not from their Metrapolitan in matter of Faith is it schism he will answer No if a Metrapo itan dissent from his Primate but agree with the rest of the Patriarchs is it schism I think he must say No if a Patriarch dissent from the first but agree with the rest is it schisme No if a Nation or a Bishop dissent from the rest of the generall Councell is it schism still I beleeve he will answer No where then is schism provided against or where truly is there any subordination in Faith if none of these are subject and bound to their superiors or Universals in matters of Faith But saith the Doctor the Apostles resolved upon some few heads of speciall force and efficacie to the planting of Christian life through the world and preaching and depositing them in every Church of their plantation Truly I do not know what a Catholick professeth more so that by the word few he meaneth enough to form a Religion and Christian life and will shew us a Church which hath not betrayed the trust deposited for if there be none what availeth this depositing if there be any clear it is that it preserved it by tradition if there be a question whether it hath or no again I demand to what purpose was the depositing so that if the Doctor would speak aloud I doubt he would be subject to as much jealousie as he saith Grocius was I cannot but admire indeed the great temper he professeth men of his Religion have in chusing of Doctrines to wit Sect 7. their submission to the three first Ages and the foure first Councels but I confesse it is a humility I understand not first to profess they know not whether their teachers say true or no that is that they are fallible and then to hold under pain of damnation what they say Another peece of their Humility is in submitting to Ages where very few Witnesses can be found in regard of the rarity of the Authors and the little occasion they had to speak of present controversies A third note of Humility is that whereas the fourth Councel was held about the midst of the fifth Age these lovers of truth will stand to it but not to the fourth Age precedent or that very Age in which it was held so humble they are to submit to any Authority that toucheth not the questions in present controversie but where do they find Christs Church should be Judg in three Ages and fail in the fourth or that the Councels in the fifth Age should be sound but not the Fathers In his 9th Chapter he pretendeth the Roman Catholick Church is cause of his division because they desire communion and cannot be admitted but under the beleef and practise of things contrary to their consciences of which two propositions Sect 4 5. if the second be not proved the first is vain and is as if a subject should plead he were unjustly out-lawed because he doth not desire it now to prove the latter he assumeth that the Protestant is ready to contest his Negatives by grounds that all good Christians ought to be concluded by what he means by that I know not for that they will convince their Negatives by any ground a good Christian ought to be concluded by I see nothing less What then wil they contest it by all grounds a good Orthodox Christian ought to be concluded by If they answer in the Affirmative we shall ask them whether Si quis Ecclesiam non audierit be one of their grounds and if they say no we shall clearly disprove their major but then their defence is if any ground or Rule of it self firm and good speaketh nothing clearly of a poine in question they will contest that point by those grounds is not this a goodly excuse In his 11 Chapter he
saith we judg them and despise them as to the first I have often wondered and do now that men pretending to learning and reason should therein charge us with want of charity for if our Judgment be false it is error not malice and whether true or false we press it upon them out of love and kindness to keep them from the harm that according to our beleef may come unto them but since they deny they are scismaticks and offer to prove it we must not say it yet I think we ought until we have cause to beleeve them since our highest tribunal the Churches voice from which we have no appeal hath passed Judgment against them In the last Chapter he compiaineth of the Catholicks for reproaching them with the loss of their Church and arguing with their Disciples in this sort communion in some Church even externally is necessary but you cannot now communicate with your late Church for that hath no subsistence therefore you ought to return to the Church from whence you went out truly in this case I think they ought to pardon the Catholick who hath or undoubtedly is perswaded he hath a promise for eternity to his Church and experience in the execution of that promise for 16 Ages in which none other can compare with him and sees another Church judged by one of the learnedst Heoker Ecle poll cha 5. most prudent persons confessedly that ever was amongst them to be a building likely to last but 80 years to be now torn up by the roots and this done by the same means by which it was setled I say if this Catholick beleeve his eyes he is at least to be excused and though I know the Doctor will reply his Church is still in being preserved in Bishops and Presbyters rightly ordained yet let him remember how inconsequent this is to what he hath said before for ask him how doth it remain in being if there be no such Bishops or Presbyters amongst them for his defence against the Church of Rome is that the secular authority hath power to make and change Bishops and Presbyters from whence it wil follow that as they were set up by a secular authority so are they pulled down and un-bishoped by another secular Authority if it be said the Parliament which pulled them down had not the 3. bodies requisite to make a Parliament no more had that which set them up for the Lords Spirit was wanting both in Parlament and Convocation so that there was as much authority to pul them down as to set them up but it will be replyed that though they are pulled down yet are they stil Bishops viz the character remains with them Alas what is their characters if their mission of Preaching and Teaching be extinguished which follows their jurisdiction which jurisdiction the Doct makes subject to the secular authority so that whatsoever characters their Bishops Presbyters pretend to have they have according to his principles no power over the layity and so no character can be made of any Bishop as head and Pastor and of the people as bodie and flock and consequently their Church is gone and this he does out of a word in Rufinus which he supposeth to be taken in a special propriety of Law wheras indeed that Authors knowledg in Grammar was not such as should necessarily exact any such beleef especially learned men saying the contrary But we account our selves Bishops and Priests not from an authority dependant upon Princes or inherited from Augustus or new but from Peter and Paul so shal stand and continue whatsoever Princes or secular powers decree when they according to their Doctrines and Arguments are not to wonder if they be thrown down by the same Authortly that set them up as the Synagogue was a Church to have an end so is this with theirs difference that the Synagogue was a true Church in reference to a better but this a counterfeit and tyrannical one to punish a better as concerning the Drs. prayer for Peace communion all good People wil joyn with him if he produce Fructus dignes penitentiae especially if he acknowledg the infallibility of the Church and supremacie of the Pope the former is explicated sufficiently in divers Books the latter is expressed in the Councel of Florence in these words viz We desire that the Holy Apostolical See and the Bishop of Rome have the primacie over all the World and that the Bishop of Rome is successor to St. Peter the Prince of the Apostles and truly Christs Vicar and head of the whole Church and the Father Teacher of all Christians and that there was given him in St Peter from Christ a fâ—â— power to feed direct ond govern the Catholick Church so far the Councel without obeying this the Dr is a Scismatick without consing the other an Heretick but lee him joyn with us in these all the rest will follow Thus Sir you have my sence of Dr Hammonds Book in all the Particulars which I think to the purpose my time nor the brevity fit for a Letter not permitting I should be more methodical and do rest Your Friend and humble Servant B. P. Bruxels the 30 March 1654. FINIS