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A26681 Truths manifest revived, or, A farther discovery of Mr. Stucley and his churches causeless excommunication of Mrs. Mary Allein wherein the former narrative and observations on Mr. Stucleys sermon are reprinted, and his late scandulous pamphlet, falsly intituled Manifest truth, answered and refuted / by Tobie Allein ... Allein, Toby. 1659 (1659) Wing A959; ESTC R4931 50,071 112

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be God we have done it and blessed be God we go according to our light and blessed be God we do not endure a Rebel among us a Rebel among us make us fathful to thee upright before thee and to live as becometh thy people and so pray and engage together and Covenant with thee and one with another that this might be the last hour that we take the rod into our hand O we pray thee let this be the last Excommunication let this be the last rod we take into our hand and let it be the last hour we are put upon cursing work we pray thee let 's be put upon blessing work the Lord be with us in the remaning part of this day And all we beg for the Lord Jesus sake The prayer being ended Mr. Mall stood up and said to the Congregation Now we have separated the precious from the vile let 's renew our solemne league and covenant And taking his text out of Nehemiah 9. last ver preached thereupon and vented most uncharitable and invective passages and reflections on my wife Some of which are insinuated in his pretended reasons set down in the Booke after Mr. Stucleys Sermon the particulars whereof I shall here omit as too tedious to relate and in regard he was so modest as to print but a piece of his Sermon being it seems ashamed of the rest as he might well be I shall here passe it over without troubling the reader therewith it sounding much to the same tune with Mr. Stucleys Sermon of some part whereof I shall give you a brief account by and by And now having given you a true account of the whole story and state of the businesse as to the matter of fact that hath been so transacted and falsely represented by Mr. Stucley I leave it to all unbyassed judicious Christians to consider and judge upon the whole matter whether there were any just cause or ground c. warrantable by the Lawes of God or man for this their practice and proceeding or whether it was not meerly and onely for her deserting them and returning to her former Pastor And so having finished my Narrative I now come to take notice of and make brief answers or solutions to some of the most notorious passages and pieces of defamation set down in Mr. Stucleys printed Sermon and herein it is not my purpose to take any notice of such passages therein as seem to Reflect upon the Presbyterian Ministers in general or those of this City in particular Onely as I am bound in duty I shall endeavour to clear the innocency of her who is in so near relation to me And this if I should forbear to do well might the world think me an unworthy man in suffering my wifes reputation and honour to be buried under the reproach and calumny he hath cast upon her In Mr. Stucleys printed Sermon in Mr. Malls Book pag. 7. The ground of our union with them was their visible closing with Christ now when that visibility ceaseth the union is to be dissolved c. Solution What visibility or outward appearance of Religion ceased in my wife except that she for just reasons refused any longer to hold communion with Mr. Stucleys Church and betook her self again to her former Pastor It seems by this that visible holiness ceaseth in all that have no longer a mind to continue in their separation what a reproach is here cast on all the Churches of Christ that are not independent that there is no visible holinesse in the members of them nay more that they oppose God and Christ in his Laws as it followeth in the same 7. page for my part I know no opposition my wife hath made to the Laws of Christ more then formerly whil'st she was a member of Mr. Stucleys Church but that she hath of late left them I am sure her behaviour towards me and my family is with the same circumspection as formerly cannot a person outwardly close with Christ except in Mr. Stucleys Church must they needs be held to cast away Christs cords to have broken the covenant with God and neglected his house that like not the wayes of Mr. Stucleys congregation Reader this might serve to satisfy the members of that Church who were engaged as far as himself But I hope will not satifie any understanding and indifferent men But she contemned admonition private publick Sol. The Truth is this whatever Mr. Stucley was pleased to say that she did not refuse admonition even by them Onely Knowing that they waited for her haltings she refused to appear before Mr. Stucley or to talk with any of his Church unless she might have leave to bring some Ministers or friends with her and there was good cause for she knew that Mrs Parr going to and treating with them alone had been overreacht by them whilest they had witnesses of what passed and she had none Besides what if she had refused admonition from Mr. Stucley and his Church so long as she was no more a member of it but was in actual communion with her former Pastor she had left Mr. Stucleys Church and all communion with it and therefore was under no special obligation to receive admonition from him or any of his Church and to speak the Truth that was her onely fault that she left them And her refusing admonition was her not submitting to be treated withall alone for fear she might be again entangled by them Neither my wife nor Mrs Parr were look't on as Refractory and Rebels to God and man till they had no more any mind to stay with them this was their fault which I hope God hath forgiven them though for this they are excommunicated by Mr. Stucley and his Church These reject him as their Law-giver and head c. Sol. What because they refuse to be of Mr. Stucleys Church that 's the matter that hath kindled all this fire ther 's no Church but Mr. Stucleys and such like all other are look't upon as Babylonish and Synagogues of Satan wonder not I so charge them Besides many expressions sounding this way Consider how Mr. Stucley applies 2 Cor. 6.14 15 16. And to put it out of all doubt when I my self was reasoning with Mr. Stucley to this purpose That I thought I might communicate in the Lords Supper with his Church and others also meaning the rest of the Churches in Exon He told me that I could not partake of the table of the Lord and of the table of Divels And whereas Mr. Stucley makes it so intollerable an evil for good men to be forced to live amongst wicked men I grant it But say withall that these excommunicate persons as they communicate in ordinances with godly Christians so they have frequent civil society with no other then if comparisons be not odious give as good Testimony of the grace of God as Mr. Stucley himself or the best of his Church He stiles them Dogs c. Sol.
They were partakers in the fact of cursing my wife And they are to admonish him for that which they joyned with him to doe Note he wholly declines my proposall and hath found out this shift he tells me the Church are offended that I take offence at their proceedings And summons me to his consistarie before Mr. Eveleigh Owen and the rest judges in their own cause for them to debate and determine whether he they had done right or no you may imagine what a piece of justice I might expect from them Right Lidford Law Hereupon I gave notice to the Church by letter that forasmuch as they had abused the Ordinance of Christ in Excommunicating my wife on such pretended crimes as were apparent falsities I had therefore withdrawn from them and could neither in reason nor conscience joyn with such a Congregation as live wholly under an Arbitrary form of Church Goverment and admitted of no appeales in the case of unjust excommunication And so after Mr. Stucleys deniall of a friendly debate often proposed by me I was enforced to commence my suit at Law to right my self in way of a legall proceeding And this is the action of the case he there speaks of It would be almost infinite to follow him in every of his impertinencies and frothy fancies I purposely wave many as inconsiderable and shall speake only to the most material that I tire not the Reader Mr. Stucley hath done with my Testimoniall and now taking leave of the chamber with his pace tantorum virorum a jeering farewell he passes to my Epistle He begins with a whipper Scandall contumacy sayes he was proved against my wife and therefore her censure was not unrighteous good Logick were it true yea but he will prove it by his Sermon notes alias his printed libel I referre you saies he to the notes of my Sermon in print A very strong evidence a cogent argument He and his Church must curse my wife for deserting them and joyning to her former pastor but scandall and contumacy must be the glosse and pretence for their proceedings Mr. Stucley preaches prints her guilty And that 's his proof They say so And therefore 't is so they are satisfied and therefore others must me The Pharisees say that Christ had a Devil and therefore it must be so probatum est Suppose a vile wretch being met with a parcel of his Desciples as bad as himself do preach and print blasphemy as many doe in these dayes is it true or is it ever the lesse blasphemy because he preaches and prints it and his Desciples own and maintain it This is sorry stuff Next we are now come to the point the whole stresse of the businesse in difference between Mr. Stucley and my self lies in this namely whether my wife were guilty of Crimes deserving excomminication or not deserving whether guilty of contumacy or not guilty in a word whether his curse be causeless or not I am not ignorant that I am to encounter one that Goliah-like seems to bee armed Cap-a pe He is a Scholer which I pretend not to therefore the disadvantage lies on my side But I trust my cause is good and my designe is satisfaction and therefore shall not fear to take leave humbly to propose a few queries to serious consideration First whether a particular Church may impose presse or practice any thing that is not warranted by Scripture precept Apostolicall iustitution or primitive Church practice Secondly whether If such things be imposed pressed or drawen into practice by a particular Church the Church members may not refuse it as arbitrary and after their declaring dissatisfaction in point of conscience may not withdrawe from such Church till they receive satisfaction and for non-satisfaction wholly desert it Thirdly whether a particular Church denying or tying up it's members by Covenant compact or otherwise from communion with other Churches of Christ in the ordinances and it 's refusing to admit the members of other Churches of Christ professed believers and orderly livers to communicate with them in the ordinances be warrantable by Scripture rule Apostolicall institution or primative practice or on the contrary be seperation schisme in such particular Church Fourthly whether there be any Scripture Rule or Parsident for a particular Church to erect private meetings and there to pray preach and carry on designes and particular interests relating to state affaires to promote self-edification in stead of sole-edification and if not Fiftly whether a Churchmember seeing the danger and taking offence at such practices having declared against it may not in conscience abstaine and withdraw from such and joyn in the ordinances with other congregations of Gods people without incurring the guilt of Shcisme In the next place I shall point Mr. Stucley to some passages of the late reverend and learned Mr. Burroughs in his heart-divisions pag. 173. 174. If sayes he the cause of leaving communion be just then those who gave this cause are the schismatiks not those who withdraw upon it thus the Governors of the Church may be the schismaticks and a private member withdrawing may be free And again if Governours impose that which is not necessary though in it self not sinful and will not beare with the weaknesses of such as think it to be evill if upon that they be forced to withdrawe in this the Governours are the Schismaticks And againe in pag. 50. The power of the Church sayes he extends not to the punishment of every thing that either may by the Governours of it be conceived to be evill or that is indeed evill but onely such things as some way or other appeare to be against conviction and are obstinately persisted on c. And in pag. 52. those that will goe farther they will punish for every evill and if they use meanes to convince them and they be not convinced they will judge them obstinate proceed against them accordingly those challenge exercise not the power of Christ but Antichrist And againe pag. 67. this is generally held by our Brethren saith he If a man be rightly cast out of communion with one Church he is thereby cast out of all If this be so sayes he then surely many things must be suffered before we proceed to cast out a member it must not be for every error of miscarriage thus also Bp. Davenant in his rules for peace these may not be cut off from communion with particular Churches who remaine joyned to the Catholick Church And againe pag. 90. Prelatical spirits indeed account it their honour to force men to be of their mind 't is their glory that they can say to the consciences of men bow downe before us a gracious spirit abhorrs the thought of such a Tyrany These things thus-premised and considered I apply it to the case in hand in these few ensuing queres First I enquire what other meaning or construction but imposing and pressing things unnecessary can be made
hiding his infirmities from me whom he stiles a Cham that would soone have published it to my Brethren I answer that 't is not I but his own harsh irregular actings that have proclaimed not only his infirmities but enormities also to the world For my part I am convinced 't is sinfull to publish others infirmities much more to curse them for it But I adore the divine providence in that Mr. Stucley himself should occasion a discovery of his own fowle enormities God hath a time to discover the Hipocrisie of liars A time when they shall proceed no farther but their folly shall be manifest unto all God will bring to light the hidden deeds of darknesse in due time 't is neither pride nor policy can hinder Had I published Mr. Stucleys privity to the uncommissionated opening of other mens letters and taking Copies of Master Snows and Mr. VVestlakes Postletters to lay up by him suggesting to his Church members that these men endeavoured the ruine of the Church and that God had broken their designes and appointing thanksgiving dayes for the same a mere trick to alienate their affections from them I say had I published these pranks I suppose they would not come under the notion of Mr Stucleys infirmities but somewhat of a higher nature Is it not a petty piece of Burglary think you to unlock and break open the closed Cabinet of another mans breast and bosome to rob him of his secrets his heart Iewels is not this somewhat above an infirmity If not I should have concealed it but I dare not be accessary to such things therefore I say My Masters beware of your letters Next Mr. Stucley proceeds to rejoyce That Shimei his railing tongue and Rabshekahs letters should conduce to his and his Churches reputation Stay Reader peruse my Narrative where I pray doth Mr. Stucley find Shimei his railing tongue or Rabshekahs letters doth he not dream Is it not in his Pamphlet he love to triumph before the victory first let him take my answer intended for his conviction and then if it conduce to their reputation much good doe it them I hope God will work good out of it when his eyes shall be opened to see his errour and to make him sensible of his high flown conceits of his and his Churches infallibilities to make him really to adore the divine justice towards him who seeks to advance his his Churches glory and greatnesse by the defamation of honest conscientious Christians who endeavour to walke honestly both in the sight of God and men In the last place he ends his Epistle with an Apologie for his tartness in his ensuing Book and pleades the Law of nature for doing right to himself forgetting it seems the Law of grace that forbids wronging his Neighbour God is not to be found as one sayes in the raging fire of opposition but in the sweet breathings and soft voice of Truth and love I leave his Epistle proceed to take a short survey of what follows in his Pamphlet In his first page he cavils at the Title of my Book in that ' its called Truths manifest and seeks to cloud it with a thicke fog or mist of 48. lies which I doubt not ere I have done will call him father and be justly laid at his own door of these in their proper place In his second page he hath a firivolous quibble or exception against the Authour in that 't is said Toby Allein a late member c. which he sayes denotes either my excommunication or dismission or Apostacie from them c. I answer I was in the first place denied Communion with his Church some of them told me they were offended at Mr. Downs baptizing my child and at my forbearing them private meetings and I must not be admitted in such sins In the next place I gave them notice that for their unjust excommunicating my wife and refusing to give any reason or satisfaction about it and for other reasons which the reader will see ere I have ended I did withdraw from them and could walk no longer with them and so I stiled my self a late member as I hope was proper enough though not actually excommunicated nor dismissed by them and yet for all this I hope I am no otherwise an Apostate then Luther was who said he was an Apostate but it was from errour to truth But Mr. Stucleys Church is now become offended and must be satisfied ere they will say farewell to Toby Well satisfaction must be had and I hope I shall satisfie those that are capable of satisfacton The Church requires satisfaction because I say They have unjustly cursed my wife And I require satisfaction because they did unjustly curse her Mr. Stucley pray Sr. be ingenious have I not offered by word and writing that I was ready to receive your charge if you had any against me and to submit to the determination of godly judicious and indifferent Ministers or private Christians And have you not refused this Calling them forreiners and will referre it to none but your own Church Mr. Eveleigh Owen c. parties as deeply guilty as your selfe in this male administration these must be the indifferent Judges To determine whether you and themselves have done right or wrong in your proceedings none else must intermeddle in your Church affaires and why 'T is your principle a principle without Scripture precept or president a punctilio or device to wave and evade the hearing of the Judicious least the nakednesse of your cause appeare and your shame be discovered Sr. I hope you did Reverence learned Mr. Burroughs if so pray take the paines to look into his Heart-divisions pag. 43 where he sayes Those in the Congregationall way acknowledge that they are bound in conscience to give account of their wayes to the Churches about them or to any other who shall require it this saith he not in an Arbitrary way but as a duty they own to God and man Observe he makes no distinction but sayes to the Churches about them or any other that shall require it And this he speaks not only as his own opinion but as the judgement of those of the congregationall way in generall Pray tell me how you will reconcile your practice with this judgement I would willingly know why or upon what different principle it was that you refused to give Mr. Nicolls Mr. Bartlet Mr. Downe any account or satisfaction touching the reason grounds of those your proceedings when those three Ministers desired it after you had sent them your monition in the nature of a mandatum that they were to take notice that you and your Church had Excommunicated Mrs Parr and my wife did you advise with any of the Churches in Exeter or elsewhere before your precipitate proceedings Pray let 's know in your next how it was resented by your brethren of the congregational way at your late convention at the Act in Oxford if truly stated by
kingdome of God nor fornicatours Idolaters adulterers abusers of themselves with mankind nor theeves nor coveteous nor drunkards nor revilers nor extortioners and such were some of you c. And pag. 213. He tels us it must be an open and manifest sin else it is not Scandalous And known it must be either by evidence of fact confession or conviction Now let Mr. Stucley shew wherein my wife was guilty of any such Atrocious or grievious sin and if not why fall's he upon this highest work of excommunication Little flies sayes Mr. Vines must not be knockt down with so great a hammer Object True sayes my Adversary But there was contumacy that your wife was guilty of Ans I answer first if no crime no contumacie But secondly suppose a fault I deny any contumacy what contumacy when she had made so many overtures to be tried by indifferent judges godly indifferent Ministers or people what contumacy when the poor women wrote to Mr. Stucley their desires to be communicated to his Church to have their cause heard by understanding and impartiall men whosoever they be and gave assurance that they would submit to the Law and will of Christ which letter this faithfull Pastor pocketted and concealed from his Church you see what a good will he had to the work he would curse them right or wrong where is the contumacy in her was it not Tyranny in him doth he not deserve a Bishoprick By this time I suppose the Reader sees how pertinent and applicable Mr. Malls quotations are to the case of my wifes unjust excommunication And whether she were guilty of crimes or contumacy deserving such a cruel censure unjustly inflicted by Mr. Stucley and his Church I leave it to the judicious to consider Before I passe I take notice that in his 5. pag. he tells you that I am willing to wave the question about the impertinency of Mr. Malls quotations and to referre it to the learned and sayes that I should have studied the question and not contented my self with an implicit faith in the learned c. To this I answer I think the question is now put out of question and by what hath been cited out of those learned men before named it plainly appeares that his quotations are frivolous and impertinent to the case in hand let the Reader judge And as for an implicit faith in the learned I say an implicit faith in Church affairs is no way satisfactory unto me And therefore I desire Mr. Stucley to satisfy me whether he did not tye up his Church-members to an implicit faith in him when he did upon that black day of his curse make his members subscribe a Church-covenant or oath That they would submit to his guidance and teaching as their Pastor absolutely without any restriction or limitation why had it not been added he guiding and teaching according to the rule of Gods word what is this but to pin their faith on his sleeve what is it but an implicit faith on Mr. Stucley St. Paul durst not be so bold he bids the Churches be followers of him and the other Apostles as they are followers of Christ are we not bid to the Law and to the Testimony bid search the Scriptures bid try the spirits Must we take up all you say upon Trust are there no deceivers gone forth into the world and into the Church too Wolves in sheeps clothing such as like the Devil transform themselves into Angels of light creep into houses captivate silly women c. Pray Sir tell me why was this omitted in your Church-covenant or oath which Mr. Mall hath inserted in his Book should not oathes and covenants be plain and expresse or will you supply it with an caetera Have you not herein outwitted the Pope and made him a younger Brother Surely there is somewhat lies in this pad pray explain your self next Reader I am sensible that I have been too tedious hitherto and should I trace this fox in his wiles and cunning fetches in every page I should tire both you and my self to unkennell him I professe I am heartily sorry to see his impudence he would make the world believe the Crow is white and that 't is night at noon by his Logick all are lies but what he himself sayes he sees he is ingaged head and eares and must make lies his refuge to maintain his and his Churches unjust act like the boy that bid his mother call whore first For a man to Cloyster himself up and like the Owle to decline the light of a hearing and to be ashamed to give account to Ministers and others that are dissatisfied doth not this in the eie of every judicious Reader speake him guilty and unworthy What hath been already said answers many of his foul Aspersions I shall now contract my self and cursorily run over the rest And first for his affirmation that I and my wife consented to Mrs Parrs suspension in pag. 8. I professe we never knew of any suspension of her much lesse joyned in any her answer was as to me faire and satisfactory Viz that she remembred not the things for they accused her and if she were convinced of it she would be sorry for it I never voted it satisfactory and neither knew nor joyned in any such suspension therfore that 's an untruth on Mr. Stucleys part And next as for Mr. Stucleys insisting on my wifes neglect of admonition c. I answer that she did declare unto some or one of the officers her dislike dissatisfaction at their carriage in severall particulars assoon as she had a convenient opportunity which proved fatall to her in the end Take notice reader it was not a Brother or a Sister singly or a few members but 't was the whole Church ' they were all as it were hung together in a string Their tying up the members by compact their intermedling in State affaires their carrying on self designs their practicall forbidding communion with other Churches their traducing those that are not of their way was a disease epidemicall that run through the whole body and was discove'rd by degrees to be the very product of their private meetings as if it had been a part of their Religion And would it not have been look't upon as a peice of pride presumption for my wife to reprehend a whole Church should she not thinke you have been accounted against as Mrs Parr for a contentious woman that raised discord and disturbance in the Church I shall for brevity's sake leap over many of his pages the summe of what he there alledges being answered occasionally in my former sheets I also passe by his silly probabillities in the 14. page which he brings to induce a belief in the reader that my wife ran away and intended not for Taunton 't is fully answered His Queries whether dame must ride upon the Mugle of the Mare and whether Honiton be in the way to Taunton and the
daily As for my absence from your private meetings to me it seems unreasonable any one should aske a reason thereof you know what debates and discourses you have had about my wife and how disagreeing to a husbands affection would it have been if I should have been there especially being of another apprehension as to that thing then you were for I perceive after long and serious consideration that the first ground of my wifes distaste with you was her earnest love to me fearing some evil might happen as to my life or estate by joyning with you in a Petition you sent up to my Lord Protector which was occasioned thus There was a man of good understanding came to visite me Amongst the rest of our discourse he asked me whether I had signed the Petition the Church sent up I answered no He replyed I am glad with all my heart you did not for there is that in it for which some eminent States-men have lost their lives And that was for seeking to dissolve the Parliament which my wife hearing desired me I would have a care After wards other things followed which increased this dissatisfaction and truly made me to stagger Such things as these indeed are the onely way to break and Ruine the Church Besides this how am I perplext to hear daily the Scoffs and Taunts wherewith some of our brethren have every where at their doores and shops and tables vilified her for whom I am to leave father and mother For my Forbearance of the Lords Table I have I confesse desired to be humbled for it abstained too long too long But you know who is unsatisfied with me Thomas Savery and as I suppose can hardly sit with me And as to the other Churches of Christ here I have forborn in part to partake with them because I would not offend you But having well consulted with those more wise and godly then my self I have taken up this resolution to seek the Lord to prepare me to partake with both as occasion offers and I shall endeavour to wipe off what I can that ill name which I fear is too justly laid on us separatists Now I shall desire you to send me word whether I shall meet you at the Lords Table the next time that I may dispose of my self according as I shall hear from you If you have any thing to offer me in writing I shall kindly receive it and return you answer with all humility praying daily for you all I recommend you to God remain Yours to command in any service for Christ Toby Allein Exon. 4. Feb. 1657. To my honoured friend Mr. Lewis Stucley to be communicated to the Church who they say are unsatisfied This Letter was sent and delivered into Mr. Stucleys hands at the meeting of the Church who did not communicate the same according to the direction thereof and therein I think was neither faithfull to me nor his Church But the reason thereof as one of the members told me was for that he apprehended there wes somewhat in it that might dissatisfie the Church But what that should be I know not unlesse he feared it might hinder their proceedings against my Wife neither could I ever get their answer thereunto whether I might partake with them and other Churches of Christ also as occasion should present whereof I speaking to some of their members their answer was That they were loath to admit me to partake with them in my sins and I demanding of them what were the sins they charged me withall they told me it was disorderly walking and being asked in what particulars They did instance in my carrying my child and baptizing it at Master Downes Church and my not coming to their private meetings The next news we heard was a Summons in writing sent by Mr. Stucley unto my Wife giving her notice of his Churches resolutions to proceed to Excommunication of her on Monday the eighth of March then following which was in these words The Summons Mrs Allein This paper is to give you notice that all our endeavours for the reducing you having proved ineffectual The Church is resolved to proceed upon you on Monday next and then to Excommunicate you unlesse the Lord give you grace to endeavour the satisfying of the Church before that day And this I thought fit to enform you of that you may attend the said meeting my prayer is daily for you for surely whatever you think I am Your soul-friend Lewis Stucley March 4. Exon 1657. To Mrs Mary Allein at her house These in Exon. My Wife having received this Summons did for the present return answer to Mr. Stucley by the messenger that brought it onely by word of mouth That before he proceeded to the work he should read the 58. of Isaiah But afterwards she understanding that he had sent the like Summons to Mrs Parr who was also a late member of his Church long since deserted them The said Mrs Parr and my Wife being willing to do what they conceived becomed them in such a case and if it might be prevent their violent proceedings sent unto them this ensuing Letter in answer to their said Summons as followeth Mrs Parr and Mrs Allein their answer to Mr. Stucleys Summons SIr having received a summons under your hand we have sent you our answer as followeth That we know our selves guilty of no crime that may justly deserve Excommunication from any Church of Christ However as we desire not to be Iudges in our own cause so we think it not equal to be put upon triall by you and your Church who are also parties as well as we we desire to have our cause heard by understanding and impartial men whosoever they be and when we shall see reason from Scripture to convince us you may rest assured that we shall submit to the Law and will of Christ If this will not satisfie but that you and your Church will proceed against us we hope to suffer with more comfort then you can lay on your censure because we remember what Solomon saith Prov. 26.2 And know what our Saviour foretold Ioh. 16.2 And that even Gods servants have suffered as much as this from Gods enemies we tremble to think you are not afraid to draw that sword against us who through grace we hope are no way faulty as those were whom we read to have been delivered to Satan 1 Cor. 5. and 1 Tim. 1.20 We hope we haue and desire still to lament and repent those evils we know our selves guilty of before the Lord But we think it no evil in us to communicate in the Ordinances of Christ with any of Gods people that will admit us into communion with them and therefore we desire you seriously to consider what you do And this we desire as those that wish very heartily well to your soul and all the souls that are of your Church Susanna Parr Mary Allein Exon March 7. 1657 These for Mr.
'T is an Easie matter for Mr. Stucley to call these poor oppressed women dogs he and his Church onely are the children and Saints But if thou wilt set aside their leaving his Church There is nothing in them for which they may not compare with the best Saints in his Church And I dare say this City in which they were born and bred and have ever lived can say no otherwise I appeal to all that know them But it 's policy for him first to debase and vilifie those that he intended his Church should Curse He that will kill a dog must give it out that he is mad Pag. 9. Mr. Stucley cites Prov. 5.8 9. Remove thy way far from her c. And adds that 't is dangerous to come near the house of such c. Sol. What is this but to insinuate my wise such a one as is spoken of in that place i. e. a very strumpet I cannot forbear to say it so nearly concernes me that this insinuation is a base and slanderous belying her who never came into the least suspition of any such crime Had Mrs Parr been guilty of such lying as this I and others had been more satisfied in her excommunication then we now are or can be Pag. 9. Whereas in the same page towards the end Mr. Stucley saith He ought to pull off the masking robes and vizards c. Sol. He discovers himself what many before now never believed him to be viz. A man that cares not what dirt and filth he casts on any that cares not for his independent wayes They have deceived him as he saith But the truth is they were deceived in him and his Church expecting when they entred into fellowship with them that purity which they never found And now when they were disappointed and so apprehended their over-sight and went about to mend their fault by returning to those congregations to which they formerly belonged he judgeth them causelesly Pag. 10. He calls my wife a Lawless woman that knows no subjection c. Sol. I cannot forbear to say this is a most notorious belying her whom I know to be far otherwise I have cause to blesse God for so good and obedient a wife and one that orders the affairs of my family and calling with so much care and diligence as my heart can wish Insomuch that I have often left the whole management of my trade and imployment on her head care for a whole moneth together in my absence when I have kept above 500. people on work For what he charges her about her going once to Honiton I have sufficiently answered in the Narrative to which I refer the Reader Pag. 10. Again These have turned their backs on pure ordinances c. Sol. As if no pure ordinances could be found but in Mr. Stucleys Church or some other of the same edition Reader be pleased to take notice They were in actual communion with the rest of Gods people in this City before they were excommunicated And therefore did not turn their backs on pure ordinances but such is the pride of Independents they think there are no pure ordinances but in their own Churches Pag. 12. The like stuff you have page 12. That now my wife and Mrs Parr are not in Mr. Stucleys Church they are not amongst Gods people Cannot enjoy the benefit of the covenant See in what a sad condition all are that are not Independents But I hope God and good men will judg better then Mr. Stucley and his Church Pag. 13. They are turned out from beholding the conversation of Gods people c. Sol. Sill Mr Stucleys Church are Gods people no other But for that which he so much commends I do assure thee neither I nor my wife could ever see such eminency of godlynesse in their conversations I shall not asperse them I will onely say I know many very many no Independents in this City of as unblameable and godly conversation as any of them And my wife may see the conversation of those I hope notwithstanding she is excommunicate by Mr. Stucley Pag. 13. In the same page God will loose us this day from that particular tie c. Sol. My wife I hope is not in so sad a condition because Mr. Stucley and his Church are loose from their tye If she have other as godly and honest to admonish and exhort her as ever she had I forbear comparisons Pag. 14. I have no mind to discant upon Mr. Stucleys fancy in the fourteenth page where he frames a parly between God and the Divel 't is absurd enough Sol. Onely I must say he hath again slandred my wife In saying she hath removed the bounds and that she is a Lawlesse woman The contrary to my knowledg is most true and for this there are in this City as many godly Christians to witnesse as far exceed the number of Mr. Stucleys Church I know it is a sad thing to be justly excommunicated Matth. 18.18 But I know many have been excommunicated by the Pope and some by the Pharisees The question is whether those persons were justly excommunicated And that I deny And leave it to the Impartial Reader to Judge by the Narrative Pag. 15. He cites Mr. Grenhams opinion of excommunication They are among Zijms and Iijms c. Sol. He need not cite Mr. Grenhams opinion to perswade me or my wife what a sad thing excommunication is I only say the curse that 's causless shal not come The Popes Bull is but a beast when it roars the loudest Pag. 17. Whereas contumacy is urged as the reason of excommunication and Mr. Rutherford is quoted with a sufficient slur upon him and the Presbyterians Sol. I Reply that cannot be contumacie For that one act of indiscretion she hath acknowledged to my self And if an errour 't was such I hope as was pardonable by the husband without Mr. Stucleys indulgence There was no persisting in any crime but onely her not coming to Mr. Stucleys Church And Mr. Stucley cannot but remember the many overtures she made for a meeting of him and Mr. Mall with other Ministers and her willingnesse to submit to their determination which he refused as if he had been Lord Bishop Paramont and his Church infallible for which I refer you to the Narrative But now for-sooth Contumacie must be the foil to set off the fact and a decoy to draw the Church into this unwarrantable practice Pag. 19. My wife is accused for neglecting fellowship and covenant breaking and running away c. Sol. I answer she holds fellowship with the people of God And for covenant breaking she is so far guilty as she was no more willing to be confined to Master Stucleys Church but indeed of her own accord went from it for reasons mentioned in the Narrative before If she had made a covenant which yet she never intended to walk with Master Stucleys Church and not with other people of God It is an unlawfull covenant
and so better broken then kept For her pretended scandalous running from me I have given a satisfactory answer in the Narrative by which the Reader may judge what a scandalous abusing her it is to charge her with deserting her husband and family when in mine own conscience I know the contrary and that she never entertained the least thought of it And except Master Stucley and his Church there is not one sober man that knows her ever saw cause to suspect her of such an unnaturall act She continueth to dwell with me as a dutiful and obedient wife she never ran from me but onely went as far as Huniton with a purpose to go as far as Taunton There to intreat the advise and assistance of some near relations for satisfaction touching those differences occasioned upon her deserting their Church Pag. 19. Whereas he charges her with her companion whom he sets off with a dash Sol. I answer that the woman hath been her keeper for many years in child-bed as she was of many other women of good account and quality in this City and was my wifes keeper when in child bed all the time she was in Mr. Stucleys Church and yet then no exception against her Besides she being a midwife was a fit companion for my wife then great with child for what Mr. Stucley hints and some of his members have said of that woman I am perswaded they can never prove it but do very much abuse and slander her therein Pag. 19.20 When Mr. Stucley presses Tit. 2.5 Know Reader that he hath omitted somewhat that he spake in preaching to insinuate into his Auditory a suspition of my wifes chastity wherein he did most unworthily abuse her Sol. And so hath he done in what is printed Pag. 20. where he accommodates D. Tailors words to insinuate her to affect merriment and expensive company and account the house a prison which I can truly say she is so far from as if comparisons be not odious I know none farther and she utterly detests it That which followes is to the same Tune All that I will say is that it is clean contrary she never look't on me as a Nabal but hath ever shewed me as much tendernes and affectionate kindenesse as my heart could wish she never left her trust otherwise then any good housewife must do when she is forc't to be from home she went out in a journey which she intended to dispatch with all speed then to return again to her family of whom she gave a special charge to her chiefest maid-servant at her going abroad How scandalous a report have they made of what had nothing blamable but a little indiscretion in the manner of it and of this she was presently sensible and cryed me mercy Pag. 20.21 For Mrs Parr who is charged with lying c. you may see by what is said in the end of the 20. page she was not well pleased with the proceedings of Master Stucleys Church and for that let her answer Sol. Onely this I can say she was look't on by them as a pretious soul till she had a mind to hear some other Ministers and here began the quarrel which could not be ended but in her Excommunication because she was peremptorie in her resolution not to be tyed from hearing of others how far she might forget her self in discourse with them which they call tripping in her tongue c. I cannot say onely if she did it was partly occasioned by their tampering with her for going out sometimes to hear some other Ministers of the City in which she was so resolved as she chose to leave Mr. Stucleys Church and so did and was in communion with other Churches in this City for a long time before they excommunicated her Pag. 21. He saith for my Wifes coming amongst them it was somewhat observable c. Sol. It is observable indeed how Mr. Stucley persists in his unworthy design and endeavours to slur and vilifie her whom whatever malice saies I have cause to say to the glory of grace God hath blest with some good measure of knowledge of him and his will and of her self and her duty which she hath manifested in the general course of her conversation the best character of a Christian as all that know her can bear her witnesse Pag. 21. And whereas in the same page he charges her for omission of the Church-duties of admonition c. Sol. Note what a good shepherd Mr. Stucley is that in the whole space of about 4. years whilst she was of his Church he could never spie this fault so as to reprove her for it till she had left his Church and then he can find it in his heart to curse her for it Pag. 21.22 Mr. Stucley tells another story but very partially and untruly charging my Wife with abusing her sister c. Sol. The truth of the story is this About four years since I observing my brother not to thrive in his way of husbandry which he then used out of my affection to him and care of his good I set him in a way of Sergemaking wherein neither he nor his wife having any insight I gave them all the incouragement and assistance I could both by my advice and instruction therein and sparing him mine own servants of all sorts to carry on his work and took off all the serges he made and sold them at the same prizes with mine own which otherwise he could not possibly advance to that rate and my Wife being also very loving to him and his Wise her sister in Law and desiring their good and thriving in their Trade and knowing their gains ad observing her sister in Law not to be so careful and industrious as she should be and as that Trade required and their expenses rising somewhat high she advised her said sister to have a care that they did not spend more then they got whereat her sister took great distaste but shewed no more care then formerlie my Wife fearing their going back in Trade when she went up into the Eastern parts wished her sisters mother to give her the like advice as she had done which I apprehended she did and her said sister being much offended as it instead of imbracing this counsel which would have done her no hurt she complains to several of the members of Master Stucleys Church and had engaged a strong partie for her before my Wife knew thereof insomuch that it came to a hearing before Master Stucley and by his means they were reconciled and in token thereof kissed each other and afterwards frequented each others company in a very friendly manner at the Lords Table and their own Tables upon occasion for the space of above a year together even untill the time of my Wifes withdrawing from Mr. Stucleys Church Reader judge how fit it is for Mr. Stucley to rake up this petty businesse an offence indeed taken and not given and to aggravate it
in pulpit and print beyond all truth near three years after they had been reconciled and the same had been buried in oblivion of purpose to bespatter and abuse my Wife But I wonder not at it when I consider how suitable it is to what himself once told me upon occasion of writing a Letter to Mrs Parr That when he wrote Letters of that nature he would have as much of reflection in them as he could that they might be ashamed to shew them Pag. 23. My wife I can truly say puts a great price upon all Gods Ordinances and in particular on excommunication she is not so ignorant as not to know the consequence of it onely she might perhaps speak slightly of their excommunicating her when they threatned her with it as a man may slight the Popes Excommunication without any prejudice to Gods Ordinance Pag. 23. Whereas Mr. Stucley pag. 23. in his comparing her sin with the sin of the incestuous person saith The incestuous person did not separate from the Church to avoid the censure but so have these c. Sol. Reader take notice of a grosse untruth How can it be said that my Wife separated from the Church to avoid the censure whereas themselves being judges they had nothing to censure her for before she left them they never so much as pretended any cause or ground for a censure untill she had deserted them and long after although they most unworthily sifted my late domestick servants to find somewhat to accuse her of but could find none Note the pretended crime or cause of Excommunicating her was in time long after she had left Mr. Stucleys Church when she left Mr. Stucleys Church she had done nothing in the least that might incurre a Church-censure therefore it could not be rationally imagined that she should desert the Church to avoid a Church-censure To this I say no more but lyars need good memories For their perjury Covenant-breaking and schism which are charged on them in pag. 23. Sol. I confesse they have relinquished Mr. Stucleys Church and that 's their fault and yet I dare assure you my Wife had not done this had they not meddled with state affairs and had Mr. Stucley and his Church allowed her to communicate in the Ordinances with other Churches as there was occasion They held it their sin to be tied to one Congregation and to be debarred fellowship with others especially there being so many opportunities of it in this place Whereas in the application pag. 24. Mr. Stucley charges other churches and Ministers for want of discipline I shall leave it to those Ministers to vindicate their own practice I do not pretend to so much knowledge and learning as to meddle at all with it onely I wish that they were all free from lying that Master Stucley gives the Sacrament unto in his Church I know none that 's offended at their exercise of discipline onely I and many others think we have cause to be offended at these their procedings because we know as bad tollerated amongst them and nothing said to them because they have a mind to stay with them which these poor women had not Alasse poor souls that they must needs fall into those foul faults that Mr. Stucley and his Church can by no means brook or endure For this third use of Information pag. 27. we desire to apply it for the comfort of these poor oppressed and despised women made as the Scum and off-scouring of all things by his and his Churches abusing of Gods holy Ordinance hoping the wise disposer of all things will order it to their spiritual advantage by giving them grace to cleave to God when they are cast off by men and to hold communion with others of Gods people to better purpose now they are excommunicated by them Once we are sufficiently informed that they may be cast out of Mr. Stucleys Church and yet be in the readier way to heaven For the last use of Exhortation I must needs say it is very proper for himself his Church I wish them to take it home to themselves they have need enough of it t is very true as he saith The leaven is among them the leaven of the Pharisees c. There are none that know them but are too well acquainted with their great thoughts they have of themselves as the onely Church and people of God in Exon and what other Churches have been called and counted by them That God will in due time discover the hypocrisie of lyars I know well and that God would bring to light their proceedings is my hearty desire and prayer I pray too that their may be no more lyars found amongst them then their are as yet nor any that are disobedient for my Wife I know she hath kept her bounds at home so well as I desire nothing more then her perseverance in that obedience and duty she hath yielded me hitherto I shall not trouble the Reader any farther with Mr. Malls reasons that are annexed to Mr. Stucleys Sermon onely I desire him to consider how the whole drift of his discourse which was a kind of Sermon on that sad and black day aims at this that they onely are Zion and the Israel of God and all others as bad as the strangers from whom Israel separated in Nehemians time For thir renewing their Covenant that day I wish they have done it heartily and remember what they are bound to by their Covenant in Baptism viz. To forsake the Devil and all his works the vain pomp and glory of the world and the carnal desires of the flesh so as not to be led by them So I say Amen FINIS To the READER Courteous Reader UPon first view of Mr. Stucleys Pamphlet called Manifest Truth as I could not but wonder so I could not casily resolve whether his pride and arrogance or his passion and impudence were most predominant each appearing at such a magnitude which at first made me think that as it deserved so it needed no other answer but silence which as the Philosopher sayes is the best answer to foolish questions And the rather for that he hath therein so pourtraied himself to the life that all that are judicious may read what is the man by his manners But in the second place considering that this Lyon couchant contents not himself to rend my Wife in pieces but also sucks the blood of my reputation to satisfie his greedy Appetite and makes lies his refuge for all his unjust actings it being granted to every man to speake in the defence of his own innocency publickly questioned and wrongfully slandred this wound reaching to the very soul I have resolved by Gods assistance in a few following sheets to discusse and examine his late precious piece or Pamphlet and to discover both it and ' its Authour to the world in their Proper colours And herein ' its not my purpose to deal with every thing that lies fair to exception
you which I must suspect did they commend your practice as it is reported and intend to draw it into president or did they blame you for it Have you known any power either Episcopall or Archiepiscopall but only Papall that claime such an absolute Independent jurisdiction as to deny all Appeales and refuse to give any account of their wayes and administrations when desired before Independency was set up Pray what meant you by your notice to the Ministers in Exon was it not that they should deny these poore souls communion upon paine of your and your Churches high displeasure must your Ipse dixit satisfie without ground or reason If this be your principle we doubt not but within a few pages to shew who are the Schismaticks whether Mr. Stucley and his Church or Toby Allein But of that by and by I passe on to his observations on my Testimoniall Reader here see this peaceable man how his heart rises and swells against the chamber of Exon. as he call's the Subscribers to my certificate he will not be guilty of such a piece of incivility as to suffer them to passe without abusing them he must have a fling at them now they come in his way In the first place he gibes at their Administration of justice we must sayes he carry our selves warily least we be bound to the good behaviour warily not honestly he begins with a jeer Pag. 3. Next in his third and some ensuing pages He call's them my Compurgatours prolocutours Seconds guard c. and tacit'ly represents them as men dissaffected to the Supreame Magistrate with his jearing Spectatum admissi c. and that his Highness affections to him is an eie-sore to the chamber c. Reader this is the peaceable man still If thou wilt believe him he takes no pleasure in a Salamander life and yet Toby Allein and his wife are not subjects high enough to wreak and fret his malice upon No the chamber they must know that he is offended at them also and they and all the world must know what a favourite of the Protectors Mr. Stucley is he put 's it in print But alas poor man how vain is it to be angry with those that care so little for it doubtless the chamber takes notice of it so farre as to be sorry for his simpleness and that such a spirit of envy and contention should lie Couchant and discover it self from under Mr. Stucleys pastorall Robe They can bear a few gibes and jeeres from Mr. Stucley and look on it as his weakness and that it would be weakness in them to ingage in a Contest with him about such things so inconsiderable The Eagle scorns to catch flies I shall onely say that had I said insinuated so much of the chamber of Exeter as Master Stucley hath done It might have been called an Impudent lye But we leave him in his sweat of discontent against the chamber and shall speak a word of his query why I had not gotten a Certificate from the Ministers or from his Church I having as he sayes reported his Church to be the honestest people that ever I came amongst To this briefly That as for the Ministers Certificate I might have had it had I needed it And as for his Churches Certificate I left it for him to take the benefit of that being the best he can get And as for his Church If I reported them to be the honestest people c. I do now find I was in a great mistake and must retract and ask them forgivenesse I shall promise to say so no more till I have better evidence for their honesty I am not the first that have been deceived by these Independents and therefore I hope I may expect a pardon of Course Next Mr. Stucley raises queries upon the contents of my Testimoniall simple ones God knows how easy is it to pay him home in his own Coyne May it not be ask't of him 1. whether he as not an unrighteous Steward in his causelesse cursing my wife Secondly whether he be not better affected to his Independent party and interest then to the Common wealth thirdly whether he hath not raised more divisions in the Churches of Christ in Exeter by gathering a Church out of other Churches then ever was known in Exeter before But to let that passe I shall only adde That the Certifiers however Mr. Stucley represents them are known to be men of that worth loyalty and integrity that they disdaine for any respects whatsoever to certifie any thing but what they know to be really truth And had they not been so doubtless he would have long since informed against them or else had neglected his duty Pag. 4. Whereas in his fourth page he insinuates that I am to have a triall at Law against him c. Reader be pleased to take notice that after Mr. Stucley had libellously slandred my wife in pulpit and print before I printed my Narrative I demanded by severall letters satisfaction for this publick defamation as a breach of the Laws both of God and man Telling him that if he would shew the matter of fact truly stated and a possitive Scripture or Law of man for such a procedure on such a fact or ' its parallel he should convince me I likewise sent him a charge consisting of four particulars to wit first his application of Prov. 5.8.9 and Tit. 2.5 to my wife insinuating her to be a harlot and unchast Secondly his reporting her to be a woman knowing no subjection at home or abroad Thirdly his saying that she went from them to avoid Curch censure Fourthly his reporting that she never gave any reason for her leaving them I charged him that in these particulars he had scandalized my wife and therein broken both the Law of God and man I desired a debate of these particulars by himself and Master Mall his assistant and two others whom he thought fit with my self and three other godly Christians that I should bring promising that if he could prove either of them nay if I did not disprove all of them I would lay down and beg him mercy His answer was that this charging him with particulars he did not like and that it was not the way of gaining him But that I was to tell him his fault between me and him alone And failing in that first assay Then I was to take with me one or two of that particular fellowship meaning his Church and that untill then he saw no reason at all to call in forraign helps Note Reader this learned Rabbi he tells me that I must first tell him of his trespasse privately which himself hath published on the house-top in pulpit and presse I thought he had known better how to distinguish as to the Application of Admonitions and that there is a vast difference between the case of private personall wrongs And publick Church male administrations Next sayes he I must take two or three of his Church
Apostate and therefore I think Master Stucley will not say 't is a lie or a false copy only I cannot passe it by without a query or two First I ask why Mr. Stucley himself had not printed their petition in his Book he sayes he was not ashamed to tell the world of it and yet conceales it If it were so honest why had you not printed it Secondly I would ask him whether it were recomended to him and his Church by his holynesse from Rome or was it composed within the walls of Mr. Raddons Posthouse in Exeter at their private meetings Thirdly I would know whether those that subscribed it were Englishmen Italians or Spaniards Fourthly whether Religion doth challenge any other place then to be a settler no sticker in the State Fifthly whether some eminent Statesmen did not discourage Mr. Mall your Agitator from presenting it and whether it were not turn'd back to be laid aside or amended Sixthly whether such Church work might not justly offend weak members and put them upon thoughts of satisfaction before they joyn farther with such a Church Doubtlesse Mr. Stueley will take some pains to give some solution and satisfaction to these queries in his next which I shall content my self to waite for with patience And that I may no farther digresse I return to examine his allegations of my wifes supposed crimes and contumacy deserving excommunication and here I find he would make the world believe that 't was not for deserting them and going to her former Pastor this he thinks will not hold though this in truth was at the bottome But now for-sooth it must be running away from her husband Reader for satisfaction in this read my Narrative which shews the true cause manner and end of my wifes going to Honiton which he falsly call's running away The truth is her spirit was troubled at those sorry actings in the Church which I have before set forth she saw mad Church work a-making she feared entanglements and could not in conscience continue longer with them as I pressed her to do therefore she desires satisfaction and on that occasion and no other she went to Honiton in order to go to Taunton to Mr. Newton and my Brother Allein Ministers of Taunton for solution of her doubts I appeale to the impartiall Readers What think ye might not this intended tying up by covenant to a particular Congregation debarring her of the liberty of Church priviledges in Communion with other Christians and their ingaging in State affairs in so unheard of a manner make a good woman to use means for satisfaction and quiet of her conscience when she had told them and me she could not in conscience continue with them and she was told she could not leave them might not this I say cause her to be importunate for satisfaction without danger of excommunication Object But they object she went away and I knew not of it Ans I answer she had told me before that she would go somewhat for satisfaction and I had before agreed to her going to Taunton for it But suppose I did not for present know whether she was gone what then must she therefore be run away None but an Independent will judge so Object But 't is farther objected why then did ye grieve at her going away and said she would leave you Ans To this I answer 't is false I never said she would leave me whatever you vouchers Capt. Rolls and Owen do tell you They are your own Disciples and have been her accusers and judges Secondly I say I had reason to be troubled first at the ill use and advantage I apprehended such as you who watcht for her haltings would make of it And again secondly because I had no sooner complyed condescended to the healing of her troubled spirit but had too much hearkned to some of your cruel counsells and instigations against her Let me put Mr. Stucley a querie or two First let me ask him did I ever complain to him or his Church or any other that my wife was run away and require a Church proceedings about it or did he or his Church ever ask me whether she did run away or not or whether there were a reconciliation did any of them examine the case before they proceeded to curse her Secondly did not he and his Church being madded at her leaving them in point of policy or rather revenge conspire to spread and foment this false report and then call it a publick Scandall past her husbands pardon and such as he and his Church must take cognizance of ex officio and curse her for unless she would cry peccavi though innocent This will be the case another day whatever they pretend to hide it now She had left them they could not brook it therefore they seek occasion and finding none They feign and frame somewhat that they may have some shew for the work it must be done in Terrorem Strict Discipline against the wife may chance deterr the husband from going away for they now fear his departure too To loose a Church member may be ominous Thirdly I ask Mr. Stucley this question If he and his Church had so good a cause and could prove their pretended crimes against my wife why was this conscientious Pastor so rigid as to refuse a hearing and debate of their accusations before Mr. Ford Mr. Down and others nominated by my wife whereby he and his Church might have been cieared and justified in their proceedings had their pretended delinquent been convicted Where was this mans wisdome or charity I would fain know who rather then he would abate a hairs breadth of his greatnesse and honour that proves his shame he will give my wife to the Devil send her packing to hell where is this mans Scripture-rule or Church president for such a wilfull procedure Hear learned Zanchie treating about Church power in the point of excommunication What is more grievous sayes he to the whole body of the Church then to cut off a member from the Body If a Church saith he be small and consists not of many learned men as Mr. Stucleys I am sure doth not excommunication ought not to be done unlesse the neighbour Churches be first consulted withall A chirurgion if he fear God and be wise doth not cut off a hand or an arme before he hath first heard the judgement of the skilfull neighbour physitians And the late reverend Mr. Vines in his Treatise of the Sacrament of the Lords Supper pag. 212. sayes The proper and Adequate and immediate object of debarriment from the Communion of the Church is a Sandalous person that holds either a course or hath committed the act of a scandalous sin which he explaines to be some Atrocious or grievous sin of the first magnitude If any that is called a Brother be a fornicatour Idolater covetous c. 1 Cor. 5. and 1 Cor. 6.9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the