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church_n communion_n member_n schism_n 3,619 5 9.7876 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A01336 An ansvver of a true Christian to the proude challenge of a counterset Catholike. By VVilliam Fulke Doctor in diuinitie; Two treatises written against the papistes. Part 1 Fulke, William, 1538-1589.; Albin de Valsergues, Jean d', d. 1566. Notable discourse. 1577 (1577) STC 11459; ESTC S122230 76,157 126

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succession_n according_a to_o person_n or_o place_n you_o be_v never_o able_a to_o prove_v that_o any_o such_o thing_n be_v promise_v to_o the_o church_n that_o we_o shall_v show_v you_o the_o performance_n there_o of_o in_o our_o church_n otherwise_o we_o doubt_v not_o but_o god_n have_v always_o stir_v up_o some_o faithful_a teacher_n that_o have_v instruct_v his_o church_n in_o the_o necessary_a point_n of_o christian_a religion_n although_o the_o world_n and_o the_o church_n of_o antichrist_n do_v not_o always_o see_v they_o 2_o and_o be_v able_a to_o name_v you_o by_o the_o history_n of_o all_o age_n the_o notable_a person_n of_o all_o the_o foresaid_a state_n in_o their_o government_n and_o ministry_n a_o gain_n i_o answer_v you_o that_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o name_n i_o any_o text_n of_o scripture_n by_o which_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o all_o these_o office_n must_v have_v perpetual_a continuance_n in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n nor_o yet_o that_o any_o of_o they_o 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mediolanensis_fw-la ambrose_n vel_fw-la alij_fw-la innumerabiles_fw-la nostrae_fw-la communionis_fw-la episcopi_fw-la etc_n etc_n but_o whether_o they_o hold_v the_o church_n or_o no_o let_v they_o show_v none_o otherwise_o but_o by_o the_o canonical_a book_n of_o holy_a scripture_n for_o we_o ourselves_o do_v not_o therefore_o say_v that_o man_n must_v believe_v we_o that_o we_o be_v in_o the_o church_n because_o we_o hold_v the_o same_o church_n which_o optatus_n of_o milevitum_n have_v commend_v or_o ambrose_n of_o millayn_n or_o innumerable_a bishop_n of_o our_o communion_n even_o so_o we_o require_v at_o the_o papist_n hand_n that_o show_v themselves_o to_o hold_v the_o church_n not_o by_o succession_n of_o bishop_n or_o rehearse_v of_o their_o name_n but_o only_o by_o the_o scripture_n for_o although_o we_o do_v rehearse_v innumerable_a name_n of_o bishop_n in_o orderly_a succession_n on_o our_o side_n we_o will_v not_o require_v man_n to_o believe_v we_o but_o only_o because_o 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bishop_n see_v in_o a_o outward_a face_n of_o the_o church_n the_o greek_a church_n be_v able_a to_o name_n as_o many_o as_o the_o latin_a church_n and_o in_o as_o orderly_a succession_n wherefore_o if_o you_o be_v as_o ready_a to_o perform_v as_o to_o promise_v you_o recant_v the_o nine_o article_n may_v be_v divide_v into_o nine_o demand_n 1_o and_o for_o the_o necessary_a use_n and_o execution_n of_o the_o foresay_a office_n they_o must_v further_o be_v ask_v what_o sacrament_n the_o protestant_n minister_v for_o the_o space_n of_o a_o thousand_o year_n together_o in_o which_o they_o confess_v their_o congregation_n to_o have_v be_v near_o or_o else_o whole_o hide_v they_o minister_v those_o sacrament_n which_o christ_n do_v institute_v namely_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n at_o such_o time_n as_o the_o cruel_a tyranny_n of_o you_o papist_n do_v not_o hinder_v they_o to_o come_v together_o for_o such_o purpose_n 2_o what_o correction_n they_o keep_v and_o discipline_n
for_o offender_n they_o do_v use_v such_o discipline_n as_o be_v use_v in_o s._n cyprian_n time_n when_o persecution_n hinder_v not_o the_o free_a course_n of_o it_o as_o he_o do_v often_o complain_v in_o the_o place_n above_o rehearse_v they_o do_v admonish_v secret_o before_o witness_n and_o when_o persecution_n stay_v they_o not_o they_o do_v also_o excommunicate_a 3_o to_o who_o they_o do_v preach_v their_o faith_n to_o such_o as_o will_v geve_v they_o hear_v as_o wickleve_v to_o the_o englishman_n john_n hus_n to_o the_o bohemian_n waldo_n to_o the_o frenchman_n and_o so_o of_o the_o rest_n 4_o how_o do_v they_o reprove_v heresy_n they_o reprove_v heresy_n by_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o patient_a suffering_n of_o your_o tyranny_n the_o one_o you_o may_v read_v in_o their_o work_n that_o be_v yet_o extant_a of_o wickleve_n bertrame_n hus_n etc_n etc_n the_o other_o in_o history_n of_o your_o own_o writer_n 5_o where_o do_v their_o principal_a pastor_n sit_v in_o judgement_n i_o 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out_o your_o officer_n or_o congregation_n to_o make_v complainct_n of_o he_o you_o be_v void_a of_o all_o reason_n that_o in_o a_o persecute_a church_n will_v require_v all_o thing_n to_o be_v so_o formal_a and_o orderly_a as_o in_o time_n of_o peace_n and_o quietness_n i_o can_v choke_v you_o with_o put_v like_o case_n of_o your_o church_n if_o a_o number_n of_o papist_n be_v carry_v prisoner_n into_o barbary_n or_o turkey_n what_o sacrament_n what_o discipline_n what_o judgement_n have_v they_o among_o they_o if_o one_o be_v offend_v with_o his_o brother_n how_o shall_v he_o come_v to_o your_o officer_n or_o to_o your_o church_n to_o complain_v in_o such_o case_n where_o the_o ordinary_a authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v hinder_v by_o persecution_n or_o otherwise_o the_o rule_n of_o s._n paul_n 1._o cor._n 5._o may_v serve_v and_o aught_o to_o be_v observe_v if_o any_o that_o be_v call_v a_o brother_n be_v a_o fornicator_n or_o covetous_a or_o a_o idolater_n or_o a_o railer_n 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thorough_o decide_v among_o they_o whether_o the_o pope_n be_v above_o the_o council_n or_o the_o council_n above_o the_o pope_n in_o the_o time_n of_o these_o schism_n how_o may_v a_o man_n have_v find_v out_o which_o be_v the_o true_a church_n which_o be_v christ_n vicar_n in_o earth_n which_o have_v the_o right_a sacrament_n and_o sacramental_n to_o which_o pope_n court_v shall_v he_o appeal_v where_o do_v the_o principal_a pastor_n sit_v in_o judgement_n etc_n etc_n how_o shall_v counsel_n be_v gather_v which_o pope_n shall_v confirm_v their_o act_n etc_o etc_o when_o you_o be_v able_a to_o answer_v these_o question_n for_o your_o own_o church_n than_o you_o may_v better_o require_v they_o of_o we_o as_o for_o that_o secret_a contemptible_a and_o unknown_a company_n of_o our_o church_n in_o the_o sight_n of_o the_o world_n be_v nevertheless_o manifest_a glorious_a and_o know_v to_o our_o saviour_n christ_n and_o the_o lively_a member_n of_o his_o body_n 9_o if_o therefore_o you_o 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will_v etc_n etc_n by_o this_o one_o authority_n it_o may_v be_v see_v though_o other_o may_v be_v bring_v what_o order_n of_o service_n and_o ministration_n of_o sacrament_n our_o church_n use_v before_o papistry_n get_v the_o upper_a hand_n 2_o show_v one_o book_n of_o communion_n or_o what_o else_o you_o listen_v that_o be_v in_o english_a or_o lack_v prayer_n for_o the_o depart_v or_o invocation_n of_o saint_n in_o heaven_n or_o that_o want_a oblation_n or_o sacrifice_n or_o that_o charge_v a_o number_n to_o receive_v or_o else_o that_o the_o priest_n can_v not_o consecrate_v nor_o say_v mass_n himself_o or_o show_v any_o note_n in_o a_o communion_n book_n that_o the_o people_n shall_v take_v the_o sacrament_n for_o plain_a bread_n or_o that_o they_o shall_v geve_v no_o honour_n to_o it_o show_v this_o book_n or_o any_o leaf_n or_o line_n of_o this_o book_n it_o may_v trouble_v a_o wise_a man_n to_o answer_v all_o the_o question_n that_o a_o fool_n can_v propound_v you_o require_v to_o see_v a_o book_n of_o communion_n in_o english_a or_o that_o lack_v etc_n etc_n when_o it_o be_v confess_v that_o the_o english_a nation_n receive_v their_o religion_n first_o from_o rome_n at_o such_o time_n as_o religion_n there_o be_v very_o corrupt_a what_o marvel_n be_v it_o if_o we_o can_v not_o show_v you_o such_o a_o communion_n book_n as_o you_o require_v but_o we_o can_v easy_o show_v you_o out_o of_o the_o scripture_n the_o the_o communion_n ought_v to_o be_v minister_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n that_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o to_o the_o dead_a ought_v not_o to_o be_v use_v that_o the_o sacrament_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v turn_v into_o a_o sacrifice_n that_o there_o ought_v to_o be_v a_o communion_n of_o many_o receiver_n and_o not_o a_o private_a mass_n that_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o bread_n be_v not_o change_v that_o the_o element_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v not_o to_o be_v honour_v these_o i_o say_v we_o can_v prove_v out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n the_o catholic_a writer_n of_o the_o old_a church_n and_o though_o perchance_o it_o will_v be_v hard_a to_o find_v a_o communion_n book_n in_o english_a yet_o have_v i_o find_v you_o a_o canon_n of_o the_o laterane_n council_n that_o it_o ought_v to_o have_v be_v translate_v into_o english_a yet_o be_v there_o find_v diverse_a monument_n of_o antiquity_n as_o prayer_n psalm_n and_o homily_n etc_n etc_n in_o the_o old_a english_a or_o saxon_n tongue_n in_o which_o the_o real_a presence_n transubstantiation_n and_o other_o point_n of_o popish_a doctrine_n be_v plain_o confute_v there_o may_v be_v show_v you_o also_o byble_v both_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o new_a in_o the_o english_a tongue_n of_o diverse_a translation_n in_o old_a write_v hand_n also_o great_a book_n of_o english_a homily_n inveigh_v direct_o against_o the_o pope_n and_o all_o popish_a doctrine_n in_o old_a english_a write_v hand_n with_o diverse_a other_o small_a treatise_n and_o pamphlet_n of_o like_a matter_n if_o these_o will_v do_v you_o any_o good_a you_o may_v have_v the_o sight_n of_o they_o when_o you_o please_v 3_o or_o any_o church_n or_o congregation_n that_o ever_o have_v any_o authentical_a service_n but_o we_o and_o i_o recant_v the_o church_n of_o the_o brytanne_n before_o augustine_n come_v in_o with_o romish_a service_n have_v they_o not_o trow_v you_o authentical_a service_n which_o continue_v in_o the_o faith_n of_o christ_n even_o from_o the_o apostle_n time_n the_o grecian_n also_o &_o oriental_a church_n have_v they_o not_o unto_o this_o day_n their_o authentical_a service_n which_o be_v not_o you_o if_o you_o can_v not_o deny_v this_o you_o shall_v recant_v the_o 13._o article_n have_v 2._o demand_n 1_o furthermore_o i_o require_v to_o know_v what_o shall_v be_v the_o cause_n that_o the_o protestant_n themselves_o do_v receive_v all_o bishop_n priest_n deacon_n and_o other_o officer_n spiritual_a of_o all_o sort_n of_o our_o catholic_a church_n and_o do_v admit_v they_o as_o man_n lawful_o and_o sufficient_o order_v both_o to_o preach_v minister_v sacrament_n and_o to_o exercise_v spiritual_a jurisdiction_n no_o less_o but_o rather_o more_o than_o if_o they_o be_v of_o their_o own_o order_n where_o we_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n do_v not_o acknowledge_v any_o man_n of_o their_o calling_n to_o be_v any_o whit_n more_o fit_a for_o any_o spiritual_a function_n than_o other_o lay_v man_n although_o all_o godly_a man_n wish_v more_o severity_n of_o discipline_n to_o be_v use_v in_o receive_v they_o that_o come_v out_o of_o heresy_n to_o serve_v in_o the_o church_n than_o be_v common_o practise_v in_o england_n yet_o you_o be_v high_o deceive_v if_o you_o think_v we_o esteem_v your_o office_n of_o bishop_n priest_n deacon_n any_o better_a than_o the_o state_n of_o lay_v man_n but_o far_o worse_a for_o we_o judge_v they_o to_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o antichristianitie_n heresy_n and_o blasphemy_n and_o therefore_o we_o receive_v none_o of_o they_o to_o minister_v in_o our_o church_n except_o they_o forswear_v your_o religion_n and_o so_o their_o admission_n be_v not_o a_o allow_v of_o your_o order_n but_o a_o new_a call_n unto_o the_o ministry_n 2_o therefore_o upon_o this_o presumption_n that_o they_o do_v not_o only_o admit_v our_o minister_a of_o sacrament_n but_o also_o the_o lawful_a order_n of_o the_o minister_n for_o the_o same_o if_o they_o can_v show_v i_o why_o our_o church_n have_v by_o their_o own_o consent_n and_o approve_v lawful_a priest_n and_o bishop_n shall_v not_o be_v the_o true_a church_n i_o recant_v you_o presume_v to_o much_o as_o i_o say_v before_o to_o think_v that_o we_o receive_v your_o order_v to_o be_v lawful_a or_o your_o minister_a of_o sacrament_n to_o be_v pure_a and_o if_o you_o gather_v that_o we_o admit_v your_o ministration_n of_o sacrament_n because_o we_o do_v not_o rebaptize_v
uni_fw-la deo_fw-la &_o martyrum_fw-la &_o nostro_fw-la sacrificium_fw-la immolamus_fw-la ad_fw-la quod_fw-la sacrificium_fw-la sicut_fw-la homines_fw-la dei_fw-la qui_fw-la mundum_fw-la in_o eius_fw-la confession_n vicerunt_fw-la svo_fw-la loco_fw-la &_o ordine_fw-la nominantur_fw-la non_fw-la tamen_fw-la à_fw-la sacerdote_fw-la qui_fw-la sacrificat_fw-la invocantur_fw-la deo_fw-la quip_n non_fw-la ipsis_fw-la sacrificat_fw-la quamuis_fw-la in_o memoria_fw-la sacrificet_fw-la eorum_fw-la quia_fw-la dei_fw-la sacerdos_fw-la est_fw-la non_fw-la illorum_fw-la ipsum_fw-la verò_fw-la sacrificium_fw-la corpus_fw-la est_fw-la christi_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la offertur_fw-la ipsis_fw-la quia_fw-la hoc_fw-la sunt_fw-la &_o ipsi_fw-la that_o be_v we_o true_o do_v not_o build_v temple_n to_o our_o martyr_n as_o unto_o god_n but_o memory_n as_o unto_o dead_a man_n who_o soul_n live_v with_o god_n neither_o do_v we_o there_o set_v up_o altar_n in_o which_o we_o shall_v sacrifice_v unto_o the_o 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sacrifice_n but_o only_o name_v for_o remembrance_n three_o that_o altar_n be_v not_o build_v in_o the_o honour_n of_o martyr_n or_o other_o saint_n as_o they_o be_v in_o popish_a church_n as_o our_o lady_n altar_n s._n peter_n altar_n s._n laurence_n altar_n etc_n etc_n four_o that_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n which_o he_o say_v be_v the_o sacrifice_n that_o be_v offer_v be_v not_o the_o natural_a body_n of_o christ_n but_o his_o mystical_a body_n because_o he_o say_v the_o martyr_n and_o it_o be_v all_o one_o whereby_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o he_o mean_v the_o sacrifice_n of_o thanks_n give_v offer_v to_o god_n for_o the_o redemption_n of_o his_o church_n by_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n wherefore_o if_o this_o one_o place_n be_v well_o weigh_v it_o will_v interpret_v and_o answer_v all_o place_n of_o the_o ancient_a doctor_n where_o mention_n be_v make_v of_o sacrifice_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n at_o the_o time_n of_o the_o communion_n but_o to_o return_v to_o building_n of_o church_n the_o same_o augustine_n contra_fw-la maximinum_n arrianum_n lib._n titul_n 11._o have_v these_o word_n nunc_fw-la si_fw-la templum_fw-la alicui_fw-la sancto_fw-la angelo_fw-la excellentissimo_fw-la de_fw-la lignis_fw-la &_o lapidibus_fw-la faceremus_fw-la anathematizaremur_fw-la a_o veritate_fw-la christi_fw-la &_o ab_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la dei_fw-la quoniam_fw-la creaturae_fw-la exhiberemus_fw-la eam_fw-la seruitutem_fw-la quae_fw-la uni_fw-la tantum_fw-la debetur_fw-la deo_fw-la si_fw-mi ergo_fw-la sacrilegi_fw-la essemus_fw-la faciendo_fw-la templum_fw-la cuicunque_fw-la creaturae_fw-la quomodo_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la deus_fw-la verus_fw-la cvi_fw-la non_fw-la templum_fw-la facimus_fw-la sed_fw-la nos_fw-la ipsi_fw-la templum_fw-la sumus_fw-la that_o be_v if_o we_o shall_v build_v a_o temple_n of_o wood_n and_o stone_n to_o any_o holy_a and_o most_o excellent_a angel_n shall_v we_o not_o be_v accurse_v from_o the_o truth_n of_o christ_n and_o from_o the_o church_n of_o god_n because_o we_o shall_v show_v that_o service_n unto_o a_o creature_n which_o be_v due_a only_a unto_o god_n therefore_o if_o we_o shall_v be_v sacrilege_n by_o make_v a_o temple_n to_o any_o creature_n how_o be_v he_o not_o true_a god_n to_o who_o we_o do_v not_o make_v a_o temple_n but_o we_o ourselves_o be_v a_o temple_n if_o this_o be_v true_a how_o be_v not_o the_o papist_n accurse_v from_o the_o truth_n of_o christ_n and_o from_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o build_v and_o uphold_v church_n to_o angel_n as_o s._n michael_n s._n gabriels_n &_o c_o so_o that_o to_o build_v church_n as_o papist_n do_v be_v church_n rob_v or_o sacrilege_n furthermore_o whereas_o you_o will_v we_o to_o name_v one_o church_n who_o chancel_n be_v not_o build_v in_o all_o fashion_n to_o serve_v popery_n first_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o the_o first_o church_n which_o be_v build_v for_o christian_n have_v not_o the_o same_o fashion_n of_o chancel_v and_o other_o part_n that_o most_o church_n 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church_n that_o
the_o pope_n real_a presence_n transubstantiation_n communion_n in_o both_o kind_n image_n etc_n etc_n the_o most_o approve_a writer_n tertullian_n cyprian_n origen_n epiphanius_n hilarius_n chrysostomus_n jeronymus_n ambrose_n augustinus_n etc_n etc_n be_v utter_o against_o you_o and_o therefore_o can_v not_o be_v of_o your_o church_n but_o for_o as_o much_o as_o they_o hold_v the_o foundation_n that_o be_v christ_n though_o they_o have_v diverse_a error_n &_o superstition_n they_o be_v doubtless_o the_o member_n of_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n which_o because_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o disprove_v reason_n will_v you_o shall_v recant_v the_o 17._o article_n contain_v 5._o demand_n 1_o i_o ask_v of_o they_o whether_o the_o lutheran_n zwinglian_n illirian_n calueniste_n confessioniste_n swenkefeldian_n anabaptist_n and_o such_o like_a be_v all_o of_o one_o church_n because_o you_o will_v make_v simple_a man_n believe_v that_o there_o be_v so_o many_o diverse_a sect_n of_o 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in_o rebaptise_v such_o as_o be_v baptize_v by_o heretic_n 2_o and_o if_o either_o they_o can_v prove_v unto_o i_o that_o these_o be_v of_o such_o diversity_n in_o faith_n and_o religion_n make_v one_o church_n we_o have_v always_o abhor_v the_o heresy_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n libertine_n swenkefeldian_n davidians_n seruitian_n and_o all_o such_o but_o that_o luther_n &_o zuinglius_fw-la may_v be_v both_o of_o one_o church_n differ_v only_o in_o one_o opinion_n of_o the_o sacrament_n be_v declare_v before_o 3_o or_o that_o each_o of_o their_o sect_n may_v give_v salvation_n to_o their_o follower_n be_v so_o disagreeable_a one_o with_o a_o other_o in_o high_a point_n of_o our_o religion_n salvation_n be_v the_o gift_n of_o god_n and_o not_o in_o the_o power_n of_o any_o company_n or_o sect_n of_o man_n but_o this_o we_o affirm_v that_o out_o of_o that_o church_n whereof_o we_o count_v luther_n and_o zuinglius_fw-la notwithstanding_o their_o diverse_a opinion_n which_o be_v but_o in_o one_o matter_n of_o the_o sacrament_n to_o be_v member_n there_o be_v no_o salvation_n 4_o or_o that_o i_o shall_v believe_v all_o these_o rather_o than_o the_o catholic_a church_n or_o one_o of_o these_o more_o than_o another_o all_o make_v such_o a_o bold_a challenge_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o gospel_n no_o man_n require_v you_o to_o believe_v all_o these_o but_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n only_o neither_o do_v we_o require_v you_o to_o believe_v any_o one_o company_n of_o man_n more_o than_o a_o other_o but_o to_o believe_v the_o truth_n before_o falsehood_n now_o which_o of_o they_o have_v the_o truth_n that_o they_o all_o brag_n of_o you_o must_v search_v in_o the_o word_n of_o truth_n desire_v the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n that_o you_o may_v understand_v and_o believe_v the_o truth_n and_o so_o without_o doubt_n you_o shall_v come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o be_v the_o pillar_n and_o stay_n of_o truth_n 5_o let_v the_o protestant_n of_o all_o these_o kind_n put_v their_o head_n together_o and_o show_v i_o a_o reason_n of_o these_o thing_n and_o with_o all_o let_v they_o among_o themselves_o agree_v to_o what_o sort_n of_o these_o sect_n they_o will_v have_v i_o and_o i_o will_v recant_v such_o be_v your_o impudency_n in_o this_o matter_n as_o in_o all_o other_o that_o you_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v that_o the_o anabaptist_n swenkefeldian_n libertins_n and_o other_o abominable_a heretic_n be_v protestant_n but_o it_o be_v well_o that_o you_o can_v make_v none_o but_o fool_n think_v so_o as_o for_o the_o protestant_n they_o need_v take_v no_o great_a deliberation_n to_o answer_v your_o demand_n but_o you_o have_v more_o need_n to_o lay_v your_o head_n together_o to_o reconcile_v the_o thomist_n albertiste_n ockamiste_n scotiste_n reales_n and_o nominal_n which_o be_v all_o sect_n of_o papist_n and_o especial_o your_o canonist_n and_o divine_n about_o the_o article_n of_o your_o religion_n that_o be_v whether_o the_o pope_n be_v above_o the_o council_n or_o the_o council_n above_o the_o pope_n whether_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v and_o not_o the_o council_n or_o whether_o the_o council_n may_v err_v and_o not_o the_o pope_n these_o two_o the_o pope_n determination_n and_o the_o counsel_n determination_n be_v the_o rule_n of_o truth_n in_o your_o religion_n and_o not_o agree_v upon_o how_o can_v any_o truth_n be_v certain_a in_o your_o church_n at_o for_o luther_n and_o zuinglius_fw-la they_o agree_v upon_o one_o rule_n of_o truth_n that_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o differ_v only_o for_o the_o apply_v or_o lay_v of_o this_o rule_n &_o yet_o but_o in_o one_o matter_n &_o that_o not_o the_o great_a but_o you_o papist_n some_o hold_v of_o the_o pope_n and_o some_o of_o the_o council_n as_o rule_n of_o truth_n can_v have_v no_o ground_n nor_o certainty_n thereof_o therefore_o if_o you_o will_v have_v i_o or_o any_o man_n to_o be_v of_o your_o belief_n first_o determine_v how_o i_o shall_v know_v when_o i_o be_o in_o a_o right_a belief_n one_o say_v if_o the_o council_n allow_v it_o a_o other_o say_v if_o the_o pope_n allow_v what_o shall_v i_o do_v when_o one_o of_o these_o be_v against_o a_o other_o yea_o when_o one_o pope_n be_v against_o a_o other_o and_o one_o council_n against_o a_o other_o shall_v i_o think_v that_o truth_n change_v so_o often_o as_o they_o change_v moreover_o when_o one_o pope_n grant_v that_o the_o council_n be_v above_o the_o pope_n and_o that_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v likewise_o one_o council_n grant_v that_o the_o pope_n be_v above_o the_o council_n and_o that_o the_o council_n may_v err_v as_o it_o have_v be_v within_o the_o 200._o year_n the_o counsel_n of_o constance_n and_o basill_n determine_v that_o the_o council_n be_v above_o the_o pope_n and_o that_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v contrariwise_o the_o council_n of_o ferraria_n and_o florence_n determine_v that_o the_o pope_n be_v above_o the_o council_n and_o 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say_v he_o can_v err_v where_o he_o can_v not_o err_v than_o this_o proposition_n be_v false_a the_o pope_n can_v not_o err_v so_o one_o proposition_n shall_v be_v both_o true_a and_o false_a which_o be_v impossible_a likewise_o if_o he_o hold_v that_o hold_v that_o the_o council_n can_v not_o err_v and_o the_o council_n itself_o confess_v it_o that_o it_o may_v err_v gentle_a master_n n._n reconcile_v i_o these_o together_o which_o concern_v a_o case_n that_o have_v be_v in_o practice_n and_o still_o be_v in_o the_o papistry_n and_o may_v here_o trouble_v a_o man_n conscience_n that_o will_v believe_v your_o church_n and_o if_o he_o have_v any_o wit_n restrain_v he_o for_o ever_o come_v into_o your_o church_n if_o you_o can_v not_o untie_v this_o knot_n nor_o wind_v yourself_o out_o of_o this_o maze_n unless_o you_o will_v be_v still_o obstinate_a it_o be_v wisdom_n for_o you_o to_o recant_v the_o 18._o article_n have_v but_o one_o demand_n i_o demand_n whether_o they_o be_v ever_o 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the_o gift_n of_o prophecy_n the_o gift_n of_o heal_n etc_n etc_n but_o there_o be_v other_o prerogative_n of_o god_n his_o spirit_n that_o be_v necessary_a for_o the_o salvation_n of_o god_n his_o elect_a as_o the_o gift_n of_o understanding_n the_o gift_n of_o faith_n the_o spirit_n of_o adoption_n etc_n etc_n and_o these_o the_o spouse_n of_o christ_n have_v never_o want_v wherefore_o if_o you_o will_v be_v partaker_n of_o those_o benefit_n which_o be_v receive_v in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n you_o must_v forsake_v your_o romish_a religion_n and_o recant_v the_o 25._o article_n have_v 2._o demand_n 1_o show_v i_o that_o the_o church_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v a_o christian_a man_n stay_n in_o all_o trouble_n and_o tempest_n of_o doctrine_n may_v become_v so_o hide_v or_o so_o close_a that_o no_o man_n can_v find_v she_o the_o reader_n must_v not_o be_v offend_v with_o i_o for_o any_o tedious_a repetition_n of_o my_o answer_n see_v you_o geve_v the_o occasion_n by_o propound_v 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of_o discipline_n these_o be_v not_o to_o be_v require_v in_o a_o persecute_a church_n some_o be_v proper_a for_o a_o time_n and_o then_o cease_v as_o work_v of_o miracle_n and_o diverse_a other_o function_n of_o the_o spirit_n some_o be_v never_o necessary_a in_o the_o church_n as_o succession_n of_o bishop_n uniformity_n in_o ceremony_n etc_n etc_n but_o of_o all_o these_o note_n there_o be_v not_o one_o that_o be_v proper_a to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o she_o have_v not_o always_o practise_v open_a preach_n and_o never_o preach_v the_o word_n of_o truth_n she_o have_v convert_v but_o few_o nation_n to_o her_o religion_n from_o gentility_n and_o they_o rather_o by_o war_n than_o by_o preach_v she_o never_o have_v sense_n she_o first_o arise_v the_o minister_a of_o sacrament_n according_a to_o christ_n his_o institution_n she_o have_v hard_a matter_n in_o controversy_n not_o for_o furtherance_n of_o justice_n but_o for_o love_n of_o money_n her_o judiciary_n power_n may_v be_v 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of_o the_o scripture_n or_o by_o the_o vain_a contention_n &_o pride_n of_o heresy_n and_o i_o recant_v i_o have_v prove_v even_o immediate_o before_o that_o not_o one_o of_o those_o note_n which_o you_o count_v to_o be_v mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n be_v proper_a to_o your_o church_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o the_o truth_n neither_o ought_v it_o to_o be_v obey_v in_o any_o thing_n and_o as_o for_o doubt_n that_o arise_v by_o difficulty_n of_o scripture_n or_o contention_n of_o heresy_n must_v be_v resolve_v and_o determine_v as_o it_o be_v abundant_o declare_v before_o only_o by_o the_o scripture_n for_o the_o hard_a place_n of_o the_o scripture_n must_v be_v open_v by_o easy_a place_n and_o heretic_n must_v be_v confute_v by_o the_o scripture_n for_o there_o be_v never_o heresy_n but_o there_o be_v as_o great_a doubt_n of_o the_o church_n as_o of_o the_o matter_n in_o question_n only_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o stay_n of_o a_o christian_a man_n conscience_n which_o i_o will_v wish_v that_o you_o will_v true_o embrace_v and_o recant_v the_o 27._o article_n contain_v 5._o demand_n 1_o moreover_o let_v any_o man_n prove_v unto_o i_o that_o the_o true_a &_o only_a church_n of_o god_n may_v at_o any_o time_n be_v void_a of_o god_n his_o spirit_n the_o true_a and_o only_a church_n of_o christ_n can_v never_o be_v void_a of_o god_n his_o spirit_n and_o yet_o she_o may_v err_v from_o the_o truth_n and_o be_v deceive_v in_o some_o thing_n even_o as_o there_o be_v no_o true_a christian_a man_n that_o be_v void_a of_o god_n his_o spirit_n for_o he_o that_o have_v not_o the_o spirit_n of_o christ_n be_v none_o of_o he_o rom._n 8._o yet_o may_v every_o true_a christian_a err_v and_o be_v deceive_v in_o some_o thing_n according_a to_o the_o say_n of_o the_o scripture_n every_o man_n be_v a_o liar_n wherefore_o the_o whole_a church_n militant_a consist_v of_o man_n which_o be_v all_o liar_n may_v err_v all_o together_o as_o every_o part_n thereof_o although_o neither_o the_o whole_a church_n nor_o any_o true_a member_n thereof_o be_v void_a of_o god_n his_o spirit_n 2_o or_o false_o interpret_v any_o sentence_n of_o holy_a scripture_n this_o gentle_a offer_n must_v needs_o be_v take_v i_o will_v prove_v unto_o you_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v false_o interpret_v diverse_a sentence_n of_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o by_o that_o which_o she_o have_v do_v it_o can_v be_v doubt_v but_o that_o she_o may_v do_v it_o s._n augustine_n be_v in_o this_o error_n that_o he_o think_v infant_n must_v receive_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n and_o be_v deceive_v by_o false_a interpretation_n of_o this_o scripture_n except_o you_o eat_v the_o flesh_n of_o the_o son_n of_o man_n and_o drink_v his_o blood_n etc_n etc_n joan._n 6._o this_o error_n and_o false_a interpretation_n he_o affirm_v to_o be_v common_a to_o all_o the_o western_a church_n &_o to_o pope_n innocent_a himself_o contra_fw-la dvas_fw-la epist._n pelag._n ad_fw-la bonifacium_fw-la lib._n 2._o cap._n 4._o &_o contra_fw-la julianum_fw-la lib._n 1._o cap._n 2._o furthermore_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a how_o many_o text_n of_o scripture_n do_v it_o false_o interpret_v which_o it_o be_v to_o tedious_a to_o repete_fw-la yet_o for_o example_n sake_n i_o will_v rehearse_v some_o of_o they_o god_n make_v man_n to_o his_o own_o image_n gen._n 1._o therefore_o we_o must_v have_v image_n in_o the_o church_n no_o man_n light_v a_o candle_n and_o set_v it_o under_o a_o bushel_n math._n 5._o therefore_o image_n must_v be_v set_v upon_o the_o altar_n as_o we_o have_v hear_v so_o we_o have_v see_v in_o the_o city_n of_o our_o god_n psal._n 48._o that_o be_v god_n must_v not_o be_v know_v by_o only_a hear_n of_o his_o word_n but_o also_o by_o sight_n of_o image_n if_o these_o be_v not_o true_a interpretation_n i_o report_v i_o to_o you_o beside_o these_o i_o will_v bring_v you_o a_o sentence_n of_o holy_a scripture_n not_o only_o false_o interpret_v in_o sense_n but_o also_o falsify_v in_o word_n and_o concern_v not_o a_o small_a matter_n but_o even_o one_o of_o the_o chief_a article_n of_o our_o faith._n it_o be_v write_v in_o the_o 10._o chapter_n of_o the_o gospel_n after_o s._n john_n the_o 29._o verse_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d my_o father_n which_o give_v they_o unto_o i_o speak_v of_o his_o sheep_n be_v great_a than_o all_o this_o sentence_n have_v the_o council_n of_o laterane_n hold_v under_o pope_n innocent_a the_o 3._o where_o be_v present_a 70._o metropolitan_n 400._o bishop_n 12._o abbates_n and_o 800._o prior_n commentualle_n in_o all_o 1300._o prelate_n falsify_v in_o word_n after_o this_o manner_n pater_fw-la quod_fw-la dedit_fw-la mihi_fw-la maius_fw-la est_fw-la omnibus_fw-la that_o be_v that_o which_o the_o father_n have_v give_v i_o be_v great_a than_o all_o this_o sentence_n they_o allege_v to_o prove_v that_o god_n the_o father_n beget_v his_o son_n from_o everlasting_a give_v his_o own_o substance_n unto_o he_o the_o word_n be_v in_o the_o 2._o canon_n pater_fw-la enim_fw-la ab_fw-la aeterno_fw-la filium_fw-la generando_fw-la svam_fw-la substantiam_fw-la ei_fw-la dedit_fw-la iuxta_fw-la quod_fw-la ipse_fw-la testatur_fw-la pater_fw-la quod_fw-la dedit_fw-la mihi_fw-la maius_fw-la est_fw-la omnibus_fw-la at_o dici_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la quod_fw-la partem_fw-la svae_fw-la substantiae_fw-la illi_fw-la dederit_fw-la &_o partem_fw-la retinuerit_fw-la ipse_fw-la sibi_fw-la cum_fw-la substantia_fw-la patris_fw-la indivisibilis_fw-la sit_fw-la etc_n etc_n that_o be_v to_o say_v for_o the_o father_n beget_v his_o son_n from_o everlasting_a give_v he_o his_o own_o substance_n according_a as_o he_o himself_o witness_v that_o which_o the_o father_n give_v i_o be_v great_a than_o all_o but_o it_o can_v not_o be_v say_v that_o he_o give_v