proceed_v whether_o the_o people_n obey_v or_o not_o it_o be_v therefore_o their_o revenge_n by_o way_n of_o censure_n in_o discipline_n which_o they_o have_v in_o readiness_n when_o the_o obedience_n of_o the_o church_n be_v fulfil_v in_o discern_v and_o approve_v the_o equity_n of_o the_o censure_n which_o the_o apostle_n or_o elder_n have_v declare_v to_o they_o from_o the_o word_n that_o phrase_n discern_v and_o approve_v of_o the_o equity_n needs_o a_o little_a more_o clear_v but_o i_o leave_v they_o however_o this_o reverend_n divine_a seem_v to_o refer_v that_o obedience_n unto_o the_o will_n of_o christ_n by_o the_o word_n go_v before_o his_o exposition_n yet_o that_o hinder_v not_o but_o it_o may_v in_o some_o sense_n be_v apply_v to_o their_o officer_n who_o also_o obey_v christ_n for_o that_o phrase_n be_v not_o strange_a to_o have_v people_n obey_v their_o officer_n heb._n 13.17_o o_o bey_z your_o ruler_n there_o may_v be_v some_o thing_n in_o it_o not_o only_o obey_v your_o teacher_n but_o ruler_n when_o they_o rule_v as_o when_o they_o preach_v mr._n norton_n express_v 67._o resp_n ad_fw-la apol._n p._n 67._o as_o i_o conceive_v how_o the_o brethren_n act_v with_o the_o eldership_n for_o so_o i_o remember_v it_o be_v in_o his_o table_n which_o i_o have_v &_o have_v some_o thought_n to_o have_v print_v they_o but_o in_o that_o great_a fire_n when_o colchester_n be_v besiege_v have_v lend_v they_o to_o a_o friend_n they_o be_v burn_v as_o i_o hear_v part_n judicii_fw-la in_o rebus_fw-la jurisdictionis_fw-la quales_fw-la sunt_fw-la fratrum_fw-la examinatio_fw-la dijudicatio_fw-la &_o sententiatio_fw-la causae_fw-la per_fw-la modum_fw-la obedientiae_fw-la presbyterio_n debitae_fw-la 2_o cor._n 10.16_o &_o cap._n 2.9_o mr._n gillespie_n also_o beside_o his_o own_o opinion_n give_v reason_n etc._n aar_n rod_n p._n 289_o etc._n etc._n and_o allege_v divers_a divine_n who_o interpret_v this_o place_n of_o church_n censure_n &_o these_o word_n when_o your_o obedience_n be_v fulfil_v give_v he_o one_o ground_n for_o his_o interpretation_n for_o as_o estius_n and_o novarinus_n explain_v the_o apostle_n reason_n it_o be_v in_o vain_a to_o excommunicate_v all_o such_o as_o be_v worthy_a of_o excommunication_n when_o there_o be_v a_o general_a renitency_n in_o the_o church_n but_o still_o we_o observe_v the_o people_n act_v obediential_o to_o their_o officer_n that_o they_o do_v not_o at_o that_o time_n be_v their_o fault_n beside_o if_o excommunication_n be_v the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v where_o ruler_n be_v not_o as_o say_v mr._n cotton_n and_o if_o a_o homogeneal_a body_n can_v express_v no_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n but_o only_o withdraw_v as_o say_v master_n burrough_n than_o the_o people_n have_v ruler_n be_v not_o now_o make_v ruler_n nor_o have_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o be_v indeed_o jurisdiction_n exercise_v among_o they_o by_o reason_n of_o their_o ruler_n to_o who_o they_o consent_v and_o obey_v government_n be_v proper_a to_o the_o presbytery_n say_v acute_a mr._n norton_n 67_o resp_n ad_fw-la apol._n p_o 65_o 67_o and_o show_v under_o seven_o particular_n how_o the_o presbyter_n govern_v in_o church_n affair_n and_o so_o in_o this_o exercise_n of_o discipline_n if_o so_o than_o the_o people_n be_v govern_v in_o this_o act_n how_o then_o do_v a_o people_n govern_v act_n in_o reference_n to_o ruler_n govern_v but_o by_o way_n of_o obedience_n so_o that_o to_o i_o there_o appear_v a_o vast_a difference_n between_o the_o power_n of_o discipline_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n and_o as_o in_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o people_n though_o the_o minister_n can_v excommunicate_v without_o the_o people_n i_o speak_v a_o few_o word_n to_o this_o point_n here_o because_o i_o will_v spare_v the_o labour_n in_o another_o place_n as_o for_o the_o analogy_n draw_v from_o the_o civil_a power_n the_o people_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o civil_a power_n ergo_fw-la the_o fraternity_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o church_n power_n for_o the_o antecedent_n i_o leave_v that_o but_o the_o consequence_n i_o shall_v deny_v there_o be_v a_o great_a disproportion_n first_o the_o people_n be_v not_o the_o effect_n of_o their_o magistrate_n or_o follow_v after_o they_o as_o the_o people_n of_o israel_n be_v not_o of_o saul_n but_o the_o fraternity_n quâ_fw-la sic_fw-la be_v the_o effect_n of_o the_o ministry_n the_o apostle_n convert_v and_o after_o they_o the_o minister_n convert_v convert_v be_v but_o to_o make_v the_o people_n such_o for_o who_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v give_v second_o there_o be_v some_o thing_n in_o this_o in_o corporation_n if_o the_o people_n have_v elect_v a_o man_n to_o be_v a_o alderman_n or_o mayor_n if_o he_o refuse_v it_o there_o be_v a_o fine_a set_v upon_o he_o some_o have_v be_v fine_v 20_o li._n some_o more_o according_a as_o the_o corporation_n be_v but_o if_o the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n will_v choose_v a_o officer_n and_o he_o will_v refuse_v it_o what_o then_o i_o know_v no_o kind_n of_o church_n act_n that_o reach_v he_o this_o show_v there_o be_v something_o more_o in_o civil_a than_o church_n power_n three_o the_o people_n do_v give_v to_o their_o magistrate_n a_o power_n to_o make_v law_n etc._n etc._n for_o their_o good_a but_o the_o church_n give_v no_o power_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o her_o minister_n but_o they_o have_v all_o their_o power_n immediate_o from_o christ_n four_o hence_o the_o people_n may_v limit_v their_o people_n or_o enlarge_v it_o but_o the_o people_n can_v limit_v nor_o enlarge_v the_o power_n the_o minister_n have_v five_o we_o see_v the_o magistrate_n act_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o people_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o commonwealth_n of_o england_n but_o minister_n do_v not_o act_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n but_o christ_n as_o say_v mr._n burrough_n and_o mr._n norton_n before_o quote_v more_o may_v be_v produce_v but_o i_o content_v myself_o with_o these_o and_o though_o that_o maxim_n be_v receive_v salus_fw-la populi_fw-la suprema_fw-la lex_fw-la yet_o it_o hinder_v not_o but_o the_o people_n may_v save_v themselves_o though_o they_o be_v not_o the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o key_n mr._n richardson_n who_o dr._n ames_n and_o mr._n tables_n manuscr_n tables_n hooker_n honour_v much_o and_o follow_v much_o placeth_z the_o power_n of_o bind_v and_o lose_v in_o the_o governor_n not_o in_o the_o people_n this_o discourse_n i_o have_v run_v into_o by_o answer_v to_o the_o first_o proposal_n which_o be_v the_o main_a i_o have_v bestow_v more_o line_n about_o it_o the_o rest_n i_o shall_v run_v over_o quick_o come_v we_o now_o to_o the_o second_o the_o second_o proposal_n may_v be_v this_o 48._o the_o second_o proposal_n no_o congregational_a divine_a dare_v put_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n in_o the_o explicitenesse_n of_o the_o covenant_n but_o these_o do_v survey_v pare_v first_o p._n 47_o 48._o we_o will_v have_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n in_o every_o particular_a church_n this_o we_o judge_v to_o be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n and_o we_o can_v join_v with_o a_o church_n without_o it_o a._n many_o people_n have_v take_v up_o this_o by_o the_o end_n a_o covenant_n be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n understand_v it_o of_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n but_o they_o know_v not_o what_o a_o form_n be_v if_o they_o do_v they_o will_v be_v more_o wary_a than_o they_o be_v but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o congregationall_a man_n say_v from_o who_o you_o take_v up_o this_o word_n 1_o mr._n hooker_n say_v a_o implicit_a covenant_n preserve_v the_o true_a nature_n of_o the_o true_a church_n etc._n etc._n and_o a_o implicit_a covenant_n be_v when_o in_o their_o practice_n they_o do_v that_o whereby_o they_o make_v themselves_o engage_v to_o walk_v in_o such_o a_o society_n according_a to_o such_o rule_n of_o government_n which_o be_v exercise_v among_o they_o and_o so_o submit_v themselves_o thereunto_o but_o do_v not_o make_v any_o verbal_a profession_n thereof_o thus_o the_o people_n in_o the_o parish_n in_o england_n when_o there_o be_v a_o minister_n put_v upon_o they_o by_o the_o patron_n or_o bishop_n they_o constant_o hold_v they_o to_o the_o fellowship_n of_o the_o people_n in_o such_o a_o place_n attend_v all_o the_o ordinance_n there_o use_v and_o the_o dispensation_n of_o the_o minister_n so_o impose_v upon_o they_o etc._n etc._n by_o such_o action_n they_o declare_v that_o by_o their_o practice_n which_o other_o hold_v forth_o by_o public_a profession_n thus_o far_o mr._n hooker_n so_o mr._n norton_n resp_n ad_fw-la apollon_n p._n 22.28_o so_o the_o confession_n of_o church_n disc_n by_o the_o synod_n of_o new_a england_n 2_o you_o have_v a_o nationall_n covenant_n a_o solemn_a one_o i_o think_v it_o be_v strong_a enough_o if_o you_o
adversary_n that_o trouble_v our_o reformation_n i_o think_v to_o have_v take_v occasion_n here_o to_o clear_v myself_o from_o what_o mr._n edward_n have_v write_v concern_v i_o but_o the_o man_n be_v dead_a i_o rather_o let_v it_o alone_o for_o sin_n i_o thank_v god_n he_o have_v charge_v i_o with_o none_o i_o know_v if_o ever_o the_o lord_n bring_v such_o a_o unworthy_a wretch_n as_o i_o be_o to_o heaven_n i_o shall_v not_o bear_v mr._n edward_n a_o grudge_n for_o what_o unkindness_n he_o have_v offer_v to_o i_o here_o but_o whereas_o mr._n edward_n have_v brand_v i_o for_o a_o independent_a some_o of_o miserable_a colchester_n have_v tell_v i_o that_o i_o have_v alter_v my_o principle_n but_o i_o know_v no_o reason_n why_o the_o one_o shall_v charge_v i_o to_o be_v a_o independent_a nor_o the_o other_o for_o depart_v from_o my_o principle_n for_o i_o never_o declare_v any_o thing_n in_o public_a but_o only_o once_o which_o be_v concern_v the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n for_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n never_o trouble_v i_o but_o how_o to_o have_v the_o people_n reform_v and_o scandalous_a person_n debar_v from_o the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o person_n bring_v into_o a_o posture_n fit_a for_o discipline_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o independency_n once_o also_o i_o express_v this_o that_o i_o conceive_v a_o church_n organise_v and_o walk_v regular_o may_v execute_v all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n within_o itself_o i_o never_o express_v any_o thing_n more_o there_o concern_v church-work_n but_o do_v labour_n to_o keep_v alive_a the_o old_a truth_n which_o i_o find_v my_o heart_n have_v more_o need_n of_o then_o to_o preach_v about_o church-government_n in_o such_o a_o town_n as_o that_o be_v but_o if_o you_o say_v though_o i_o do_v not_o express_v it_o open_o yet_o i_o be_v a_o independent_a in_o my_o judgement_n but_o how_o can_v man_n charge_v i_o with_o that_o whiâ—c_a neither_o in_o public_a nor_o private_a they_o ever_o hear_v i_o express_v but_o then_o to_o deal_v plain_o i_o shall_v set_v down_o what_o manner_n of_o independent_a than_o i_o be_v and_o then_o you_o shall_v see_v how_o much_o i_o be_o alter_v in_o these_o point_v i_o do_v join_v with_o the_o congregational-man_n first_o i_o think_v none_o but_o visible_a saint_n to_o be_v fit_a matter_n for_o a_o church_n second_o church_n so_o the_o belgic_a church_n i_o think_v a_o promise_n from_o the_o people_n to_o subject_v themselves_o to_o church-discipline_n be_v of_o very_o great_a concernment_n to_o carry_v on_o discipline_n with_o strength_n and_o comfort_n as_o likewise_o to_o subject_v themselves_o to_o all_o other_o ordinance_n as_o become_v christian_n three_o though_o i_o do_v own_o the_o church_n of_o england_n for_o true_a church_n yet_o because_o for_o want_v of_o catechise_v and_o discipline_n they_o be_v overgrow_v with_o ignorance_n and_o profaneness_n i_o do_v desire_v the_o gross_o ignorant_a and_o profane_a to_o stay_v a_o while_n before_o i_o give_v it_o heir_n child_n the_o seal_n of_o baptism_n that_o have_v get_v knowledge_n and_o conversation_n free_v from_o scandal_n the_o ordinance_n may_v be_v administer_v with_o more_o comfort_n four_o i_o think_v that_o if_o church_n be_v now_o constitute_v the_o officer_n shall_v not_o receive_v any_o into_o church-fellowship_n against_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n give_v sufficient_a proof_n against_o they_o five_o i_o think_v the_o officer_n ought_v not_o excommunicate_v any_o person_n if_o the_o people_n do_v not_o consent_v to_o they_o not_o that_o a_o church_n must_v be_v obstruct_v if_o two_o or_o three_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o be_v cross_a six_o i_o think_v a_o particular_a church_n organise_v to_o be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n and_o according_a as_o mr._n cotton_n hold_v it_o out_o but_o this_o i_o do_v not_o express_v public_o seven_o i_o do_v somewhat_o question_n whether_o the_o officer_n of_o one_o church_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v in_o another_o church_n but_o in_o these_o point_v i_o be_v no_o independent_a first_o i_o can_v not_o be_v clear_a that_o the_o people_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n second_o neither_o that_o the_o fraternity_n have_v power_n to_o ordain_v formal_o three_o that_o a_o minister_n shall_v preach_v only_o as_o a_o gift_a broth_n ere_fw-we out_o of_o his_o own_o place_n four_o i_o can_v not_o consent_v to_o have_v the_o godly_a people_n take_v away_o from_o a_o godly_a presbyterian_a into_o a_o independent_a church_n five_o i_o can_v not_o approve_v that_o independent_a church_n shall_v refuse_v to_o communicate_v with_o presbyterial_a church_n though_o there_o be_v good_a store_n of_o visible_a saint_n for_o want_v of_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n by_o this_o time_n i_o hope_v i_o shall_v be_v no_o rank_n independent_a but_o where_o be_v then_o my_o thang_n of_o my_o principle_n let_v these_o man_n prove_v it_o for_o i_o be_o the_o same_o still_o only_o since_o i_o read_v mr._n hudson_n i_o do_v somewhat_o waver_v about_o the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o key_n and_o this_o be_v all_o my_o change_n that_o my_o mind_n may_v be_v clear_v against_o who_o i_o write_v i_o observe_v separatist_n be_v not_o all_o of_o a_o size_n some_o separate_a from_o minister_n &_o church_n and_o get_v into_o their_o private_a house_n own_o no_o officer_n but_o please_v themselves_o with_o their_o own_o gift_n and_o opinion_n these_o be_v the_o person_n who_o i_o chief_o aim_v at_o as_o such_o that_o so_o trouble_v we_o that_o no_o church-discipline_n can_v hold_v so_o long_o as_o they_o stand_v other_o live_v in_o place_n where_o there_o be_v visible_a and_o real_a saint_n the_o ministry_n godly_a and_o able_a yea_o it_o may_v be_v call_v to_o the_o place_n by_o these_o person_n but_o because_o they_o can_v have_v all_o they_o will_v pick_v a_o quarrel_n with_o the_o ordination_n of_o their_o minister_n etc._n etc._n they_o choose_v some_o other_o minister_n in_o some_o other_o town_n and_o so_o depart_v from_o the_o prebyterial_a to_o a_o congregational_a church_n continue_v still_o in_o the_o same_o parish_n it_o be_v well_o these_o man_n hold_v up_o ordinance_n and_o officer_n yet_o the_o ground_n of_o their_o practice_n the_o ensue_a discourse_n will_v try_v i_o be_o sure_a peace_n and_o unity_n among_o church_n can_v possible_o stand_v with_o this_o practice_n it_o be_v very_o sad_a that_o we_o shall_v not_o yield_v a_o little_a where_o we_o may_v nay_o where_o we_o ought_v for_o peace_n with_o our_o brethren_n who_o we_o can_v but_o judge_v holy_a and_o sincere_a if_o there_o shall_v sometime_o fall_v out_o a_o quotation_n somewhat_o sharp_a yet_o i_o pray_v do_v not_o think_v that_o i_o apply_v it_o to_o all_o separatist_n but_o to_o some_o among_o they_o who_o may_v deserve_v it_o what_o success_n my_o poor_a endeavour_n shall_v find_v i_o know_v not_o i_o look_v for_o little_a good_a they_o shall_v do_v among_o the_o separatist_n who_o with_o a_o imperious_a scorn_n neglect_v to_o listen_v to_o or_o read_v any_o thing_n which_o tend_v to_o overthrow_v their_o practice_n and_o though_o they_o be_v so_o confute_v as_o they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o answer_v a_o word_n yet_o they_o scorn_v to_o acknowledge_v their_o error_n and_o return_v to_o the_o congregation_n from_o which_o they_o have_v separate_v which_o to_o i_o be_v a_o clear_a demonstration_n that_o however_o these_o man_n pretend_v conscience_n yet_o it_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n for_o be_v these_o man_n lead_v by_o a_o pure_a conscience_n consider_v how_o they_o separate_v from_o holy_a man_n such_o also_o as_o have_v be_v instrument_n of_o their_o soul_n good_a consider_v also_o how_o they_o weaken_v their_o hand_n grieve_v their_o spirit_n they_o will_v hear_v read_v pray_v take_v any_o course_n that_o they_o may_v be_v sure_a to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o truth_n 13.36_o act._n 13.36_o but_o i_o leave_v the_o success_n to_o god_n my_o desire_n be_v to_o serve_v my_o generation_n and_o there_o i_o rest_n separation_n examine_v i_o will_v not_o trouble_v myself_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v a_o visible_a church_n upon_o the_o earth_n or_o true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n i_o think_v there_o be_v none_o that_o own_o the_o scripture_n who_o will_v deny_v the_o former_a though_o there_o be_v some_o who_o deny_v the_o latter_a unless_o i_o mean_v the_o congregationall_a church_n which_o they_o will_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v church_n but_o none_o else_o yet_o many_o of_o those_o who_o i_o write_v against_o do_v not_o own_v they_o for_o though_o they_o have_v opportunity_n and_o may_v join_v with_o such_o church_n yet_o they_o refuse_v to_o do_v so_o be_v unwilling_a i_o perceive_v to_o come_v under_o or_o
observe_v it_o well_o there_o be_v that_o which_o answer_v the_o covenant_n you_o find_v make_v in_o scripture_n to_o say_v by_o that_o we_o be_v make_v a_o nationall_n church_n this_o be_v very_o silly_a yet_o i_o think_v there_o may_v be_v so_o much_o say_v for_o a_o nationall_n church_n that_o will_v not_o ready_o be_v answer_v but_o suppose_v the_o church_n in_o new_a england_n which_v god_n forbid_v shall_v decline_v etc._n etc._n if_o the_o general_n court_n shall_v make_v such_o a_o covenant_n to_o pass_v through_o all_o the_o church_n in_o the_o colony_n will_v it_o make_v a_o nationall_n church_n they_o will_v conceive_v their_o church_n still_o to_o be_v congregationall_a 3_o i_o make_v no_o doubt_n but_o you_o shall_v have_v find_v if_o you_o have_v but_o a_o little_a patience_n that_o when_o the_o minister_n have_v come_v to_o set_v up_o discipline_n they_o will_v have_v bring_v their_o people_n under_o some_o strict_a tie_n to_o subject_a to_o church_n discipline_n i_o have_v hear_v some_o speak_v of_o it_o they_o will_v have_v find_v it_o too_o lax_n that_o implicit_a consent_n to_o make_v people_n put_v in_o execution_n that_o matth._n 13._o read_v his_o first_o chapter_n in_o some_o church_n he_o say_v there_o be_v solennis_n protestatio_fw-la subjection_n be_v sub_fw-la discipliná_fw-la ecclesiasticâ_fw-la p._n 13._o 18.15_o 16_o etc._n etc._n as_o some_o have_v find_v before_o they_o and_o it_o be_v not_o without_o some_o cause_n that_o apollonius_n set_v down_o that_o as_o one_o thing_n that_o be_v require_v of_o a_o church-member_n and_o who_o they_o will_v admit_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n that_o he_o shall_v promise_v to_o subject_v himself_o to_o discipline_n he_o tell_v we_o thus_o it_o be_v conclude_v upon_o in_o several_a synod_n he_o mention_n fix_v synod_n i_o have_v find_v the_o experience_n of_o this_o so_o already_o that_o i_o shall_v think_v myself_o in_o a_o poor_a case_n to_o exercise_v discipline_n without_o it_o the_o people_n feel_v some_o strict_a tie_n upon_o their_o spirit_n and_o i_o thank_v god_n i_o have_v know_v good_a effect_n by_o it_o 4_o if_o you_o will_v needs_o go_v close_o do_v you_o may_v enter_v into_o a_o close_a covenant_n as_o do_v those_o worthy_a christian_n in_o wetherfield_n in_o that_o old_a prophet_n day_n who_o set_v down_o their_o covenant_n in_o his_o seven_o treatise_n but_o they_o do_v not_o separate_v as_o you_o do_v excel_v those_o christian_n if_o you_o can_v the_o three_o proposal_n proposal_n the_o three_o proposal_n we_o will_v have_v no_o church-member_n but_o visible_a saint_n a._n this_o be_v a_o thing_n to_o be_v wish_v indeed_o and_o that_o i_o believe_v which_o the_o minister_n will_v be_v glad_a if_o they_o can_v attain_v it_o i_o give_v you_o instance_n before_o out_o of_o their_o book_n and_o it_o be_v that_o which_o they_o will_v put_v forth_o their_o power_n to_o effect_v so_o far_o as_o the_o state_n of_o the_o kingdom_n be_v capable_a of_o if_o once_o they_o be_v invest_v with_o power_n to_o exercise_v discipline_n and_o indeed_o as_o the_o condition_n of_o england_n stand_v there_o be_v need_n of_o a_o civil_a power_n to_o back_v they_o the_o case_n be_v not_o now_o as_o in_o the_o primitive_a time_n 2_o you_o must_v put_v a_o difference_n between_o church_n new_a erect_n and_o these_o in_o england_n which_o have_v be_v church_n so_o long_o when_o i_o raise_v a_o house_n new_a from_o the_o ground_n i_o may_v then_o do_v as_o i_o please_v but_o if_o i_o be_v mend_v of_o a_o old_a house_n i_o must_v do_v as_o well_o as_o i_o can_v repair_n by_o degree_n 3_o what_o will_v you_o have_v do_v with_o all_o the_o rest_n excommunicate_v they_o that_o be_v a_o piece_n of_o work_n indeed_o and_o beside_o there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o work_n to_o do_v before_o we_o come_v to_o that_o it_o may_v be_v many_o will_v not_o be_v find_v contumacious_a nay_o you_o see_v they_o do_v separate_v they_o from_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o divers_a begin_v to_o look_v something_o more_o narrow_o to_o baptism_n 4_o how_o many_o corrupt_a member_n do_v you_o find_v in_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n and_o galatia_n for_o the_o latter_a what_o a_o change_n be_v there_o make_v in_o their_o affection_n towards_o paul_n 287._o gillesp_n aar_n rod._n 287._o who_o close_o do_v they_o cleave_v to_o those_o judaize_v zelots_n who_o turn_v they_o away_o almost_o to_o another_o gospel_n insomuch_o that_o though_o paul_n wish_v those_o seducer_n be_v cut_v off_o gal._n 5.12_o i_o e._n by_o excommunication_n yet_o he_o do_v not_o peremptory_o command_v it_o renitente_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la the_o church_n of_o corinth_n have_v drink_v in_o vile_a error_n the_o woman_n it_o shall_v seem_v disorderly_a will_v speak_v in_o the_o church_n and_o for_o member_n 2_o cor._n 12.20_o 21._o you_o may_v conceive_v by_o the_o sin_n there_o mention_v what_o they_o be_v many_o of_o they_o ch._n 13.2_o 289._o aar_n rod_n 289._o paul_n indeed_o say_v he_o will_v not_o spare_v they_o this_o place_n master_n gillespie_n think_v give_v light_a to_o ch._n 10._o &_o 6._o when_o your_o obedience_n be_v fulfil_v our_o minister_n debarresuch_o from_o the_o supper_n 5_o if_o you_o do_v not_o thus_o separate_v from_o they_o they_o may_v do_v more_o towards_o the_o reform_n of_o their_o congregation_n but_o you_o weaken_v their_o hand_n as_o i_o shall_v touch_v hereafter_o 6_o but_o what_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o visible_a saint_n what_o be_v require_v or_o how_o will_v you_o judge_v of_o one_o what_o will_v you_o have_v they_o real_a saint_n i_o suppose_v you_o do_v not_o think_v so_o cross_n to_o the_o text_n the_o floor_n the_o drag-net_n etc._n etc._n what_o will_v you_o have_v such_o as_o by_o the_o exact_a scrutiny_n that_o can_v be_v make_v we_o may_v judge_v to_o be_v saint_n real_o i_o desire_n your_o text_n for_o this_o do_v the_o apostle_n do_v thus_o when_o they_o baptize_v any_o sure_o they_o must_v either_o judge_v by_o a_o apostolical_a spirit_n but_o we_o see_v they_o be_v mistake_v if_o they_o do_v so_o or_o else_o they_o must_v stay_v a_o good_a while_n and_o try_v man_n winter_n they_o 5._o the_o church_n after_o take_v more_o time_n but_o they_o do_v not_o come_v to_o that_o exact_a scrutiny_n etc._n etc._n bell._n enter_v to_o 2._o l._n 2._o c._n 1._o s_o 5._o and_o summer_n they_o as_o we_o say_v before_o they_o do_v judge_v of_o their_o saint-ship_n but_o this_o they_o do_v not_o do_v they_o baptize_v they_o quick_o such_o member_n as_o the_o apostle_n admit_v we_o may_v or_o else_o give_v we_o text_n to_o the_o contrary_n i_o have_v touch_v this_o in_o another_o tract_n desire_v that_o those_o who_o be_v for_o such_o strictness_n in_o member_n will_v give_v we_o their_o ground_n remember_v doctor_n ames_n falsum_fw-la est_fw-la internas_fw-la virtutes_fw-la a_o nobis_fw-la requiri_fw-la ut_fw-la aliquis_fw-la sit_fw-la in_o ecclesiâ_fw-la quoad_fw-la visibilem_fw-la ejus_fw-la statum_fw-la the_o four_o proposal_n we_o will_v have_v power_n in_o admission_n of_o member_n and_o in_o excommunication_n ans_fw-fr for_o admission_n of_o member_n 1_o when_o you_o bring_v proof_n out_o of_o the_o word_n what_o power_n church-member_n have_v exercise_v in_o admission_n of_o member_n i_o hope_v you_o shall_v find_v none_o shall_v debar_v you_o from_o have_v that_o power_n 2_o when_o there_o be_v member_n to_o be_v admit_v who_o never_o be_v church-member_n you_o shall_v find_v it_o grant_v but_o that_o be_v not_o our_o case_n here_o if_o you_o will_v have_v power_n in_o admission_n to_o sacrament_n you_o have_v that_o liberty_n give_v you_o to_o bring_v in_o testimony_n for_o or_o against_o and_o if_o you_o bring_v in_o sufficient_a proof_n against_o person_n you_o shall_v find_v they_o shall_v not_o be_v admit_v thus_o must_v you_o do_v in_o any_o church_n whatever_o if_o any_o good_a christian_a shall_v come_v and_o give_v in_o testimony_n for_o another_o the_o minister_n will_v glad_o receive_v it_o for_o excommunication_n the_o presbyterial_a minister_n will_v not_o excommunicate_v without_o the_o people_n consent_n you_o shall_v have_v liberty_n first_o ask_n leave_n of_o the_o minister_n who_o be_v the_o ruler_n and_o mouth_n of_o the_o congregation_n to_o propound_v any_o question_n sober_o and_o grave_o which_o you_o will_v have_v clear_v before_o you_o manifest_v your_o consent_n if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n dark_a to_o you_o that_o so_o you_o may_v clear_o obey_v they_o for_o i_o hope_v you_o do_v not_o look_v to_o be_v equal_a with_o officer_n in_o this_o act_n and_o i_o hope_v this_o be_v more_o than_o ever_o you_o see_v practise_v in_o old_a time_n now_o that_o the_o minister_n will_v not_o act_n against_o the_o people_n i_o suppose_v they_o mean_v the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n for_o if_o they_o
maintain_v any_o officer_n i_o wish_v there_o be_v not_o too_o strong_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o covetousness_n and_o ambition_n reign_v too_o much_o among_o this_o kind_n of_o separatist_n yet_o because_o the_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n will_v be_v of_o great_a consequence_n to_o the_o follow_a discourse_n as_o be_v the_o groundwork_n of_o it_o i_o will_v therefore_o produce_v one_o argument_n to_o prove_v it_o and_o if_o i_o can_v prove_v that_o than_o it_o will_v necessary_o follow_v there_o be_v a_o true_a visible_a church_n on_o the_o earth_n which_o as_o i_o say_v i_o think_v no_o christian_a dare_v deny_v but_o what_o daâ—es_v not_o the_o vile_a heart_n of_o man_n think_v say_v or_o do_v if_o god_n give_v it_o up_o to_o its_o own_o blindness_n and_o wickedness_n master_n burrough_n make_v mention_n of_o schusselburgius_fw-la 236._o iren._n pag._n 236._o who_o collect_v the_o sect_n opinion_n and_o way_n of_o man_n soon_o after_o luther_n say_v there_o be_v not_o any_o one_o strange_a opinion_n among_o we_o now_o but_o you_o shall_v find_v it_o among_o they_o in_o terminis_fw-la only_a i_o remember_v not_o that_o one_o that_o have_v take_v some_o who_o though_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o scripture_n yet_o think_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n on_o the_o earth_n many_o be_v the_o error_n that_o be_v confute_v condemn_v in_o the_o first_o synod_n in_o new_a england_n which_o error_n i_o find_v here_o in_o england_n but_o there_o be_v not_o this_o error_n among_o they_o all_o to_o my_o remembrance_n it_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v say_v of_o africa_n that_o every_o year_n it_o produce_v a_o new_a monster_n but_o now_o it_o must_v be_v say_v of_o england_n that_o it_o have_v produce_v such_o a_o spiritual_a monster_n as_o no_o nation_n that_o own_v the_o scripture_n ever_o do_v before_o the_o lord_n save_o we_o from_o our_o own_o heart_n but_o i_o will_v now_o prove_v the_o thesis_n as_o i_o say_v before_o there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n where_o there_o be_v many_o society_n of_o visible_a saint_n and_o true_a minister_n consent_v together_o to_o worship_n god_n in_o his_o holy_a ordinance_n there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n but_o in_o england_n there_o be_v many_o society_n of_o visible_a saint_n and_o true_a minister_n consent_v together_o to_o worship_n god_n in_o his_o holy_a ordinance_n ergo_fw-la in_o england_n there_o be_v many_o true_a visible_a church_n the_o major_n be_v so_o plain_a that_o none_o who_o know_v what_o a_o visible_a church_n be_v and_o what_o the_o church_n in_o the_o gospel_n be_v but_o must_v needs_o yield_v it_o here_o be_v the_o essential_a cause_n of_o a_o church_n ergo_fw-la here_o be_v a_o church_n first_o here_o be_v the_o material_a cause_n visible_a saint_n the_o minister_n also_o as_o visible_a saint_n help_v make_v up_o the_o matter_n but_o as_o they_o be_v minister_n they_o make_v the_o church_n organical_a which_o be_v more_o 2_o here_o be_v the_o formal_a cause_n their_o consent_n to_o worship_n god_n etc._n etc._n he_o that_o yield_v the_o essential_a cause_n and_o yet_o deny_v the_o effect_n have_v lose_v his_o reason_n a_o church_n be_v any_o company_n of_o saint_n in_o body_n to_o set_v up_o what_o ordinance_n of_o god_n they_o know_v this_o be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o here_o god_n dwell_v 8.1_o in_o hos_n 8.1_o say_v mr._n burrough_n he_o speak_v of_o a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v a_o homogeneal_a body_n but_o i_o go_v further_o the_o separatist_n indeed_o will_v catch_v hold_n of_o his_o definition_n as_o cyprian_n say_v the_o schismatic_n in_o his_o time_n do_v of_o that_o text_n in_o matth._n 18.20_o to_o which_o eh_n answer_v very_o well_o de_fw-fr unita_fw-la eccles_n and_o hence_o they_o will_v conclude_v we_o be_v saint_n in_o body_n ergo_fw-la we_o be_v true_a church_n but_o i_o pray_v be_v there_o not_o visible_a saint_n also_o in_o the_o church_n from_o which_o you_o irregular_o as_o i_o shall_v prove_v after_o do_v separate_v be_v they_o not_o as_o good_a as_o yourselves_o do_v not_o you_o attain_v to_o that_o visibility_n of_o saint-ship_n which_o you_o have_v while_o you_o be_v in_o those_o church_n do_v you_o set_v up_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n so_o far_o as_o you_o know_v or_o may_v know_v if_o error_n do_v not_o hinder_v as_o they_o do_v from_o who_o you_o have_v separate_v nay_o you_o can_v do_v it_o for_o you_o neither_o have_v man_n fit_a for_o office_n nor_o will_v you_o endure_v to_o come_v under_o officer_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o look_v into_o the_o nine_o verse_n of_o the_o same_o chapter_n tertul._n faciunt_fw-la fave_n vespae_fw-la faciunt_fw-la ecclesias_fw-la marciovitae_n tertul._n you_o shall_v find_v mr._n burrough_n say_v that_o those_o who_o love_n to_o live_v without_o ordinance_n from_o under_o the_o government_n of_o christ_n be_v those_o that_o love_n to_o live_v in_o the_o wilderness_n his_o word_n may_v be_v apply_v to_o many_o of_o these_o separatist_n who_o call_v for_o separation_n from_o the_o word_n as_o well_o as_o to_o those_o who_o be_v in_o the_o world_n but_o to_o my_o argument_n all_o the_o quarrel_n will_v be_v about_o the_o minister_n 102._o the_o presbyterian_o speak_v the_o same_o language_n if_o the_o word_n in_o body_n please_v you_o the_o correlatum_fw-la of_o ecclesiastical_a power_n be_v a_o people_n embody_v in_o a_o church_n or_o a_o spiritual_a corporation_n gillesp_n aar_n rod._n 191._o iren._n p._n 102._o and_o the_o consent_v together_o etc._n etc._n as_o for_o mr._n burrough_n phrase_n there_o be_v in_o body_n this_o they_o like_v well_o but_o so_o be_v not_o those_o visible_a saint_n i_o mention_v say_v they_o but_o to_o take_v away_o that_o cavil_v and_o so_o to_o return_v to_o the_o minister_n you_o may_v know_v what_o mr._n b._n mean_n by_o be_v in_o body_n by_o show_v what_o make_v a_o church_n covenant_n say_v he_o i_o know_v nothing_o more_o be_v require_v but_o to_o manifest_v their_o assent_n to_o join_v with_o that_o body_n to_o set_v up_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n so_o far_o as_o they_o know_v and_o do_v not_o those_o visible_a saint_n actual_o manifest_v their_o assent_n by_o their_o continual_a attendance_n upon_o their_o officer_n in_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n and_o maintain_v their_o officer_n to_o that_o intent_n that_o they_o may_v have_v the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n set_v up_o among_o they_o shall_v the_o want_n of_o a_o adjunct_n null_n the_o church_n when_o as_o they_o do_v the_o very_a thing_n which_o they_o shall_v express_v put_v case_n you_o express_v your_o assent_n and_o do_v not_o the_o thing_n which_o you_o express_v your_o assent_n unto_o be_v you_o therefore_o a_o church_n because_o of_o your_o express_v your_o assent_n what_o then_o be_v those_o who_o do_v the_o thing_n though_o they_o do_v not_o express_v their_o assent_n in_o word_n but_o in_o act_n this_o be_v good_a and_o sufficient_a to_o prove_v the_o essence_n though_o both_o expression_n and_o do_v be_v better_a but_o of_o this_o more_o after_o but_o the_o minister_n be_v those_o who_o spoil_v all_o there_o be_v those_o who_o can_v deny_v there_o be_v ordinance_n but_o there_o be_v none_o to_o administer_v they_o and_o this_o be_v the_o reason_n which_o one_o of_o the_o chief_a member_n of_o a_o church_n in_o london_n who_o do_v use_v to_o prophesy_v as_o they_o call_v it_o in_o the_o absence_n or_o weariness_n of_o the_o pastor_n give_v to_o a_o honest_a man_n who_o be_v trouble_v because_o he_o fall_v off_o from_o the_o church_n and_o exercise_v his_o gift_n and_o turn_v seeker_n i_o name_v not_o the_o man_n nor_o the_o church_n but_o it_o be_v too_o true_a now_o suppose_v i_o can_v not_o prove_v the_o minister_n to_o be_v true_a minister_n yet_o those_o visible_a saint_n which_o i_o name_v before_o and_o those_o who_o you_o call_v presbyterian_o do_v meet_v together_o confer_v pray_v and_o fast_o together_o watch_v one_o over_o another_o and_o so_o if_o you_o will_v consider_v they_o as_o homogeneal_a body_n they_o be_v as_o good_a church_n as_o those_o separatist_n which_o have_v no_o officer_n therefore_o still_o there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n beside_o the_o separatist_n and_o so_o my_o argument_n stand_v firm_a but_o i_o will_v prove_v there_o be_v many_o true_a minister_n even_o among_o those_o who_o you_o call_v presbyterial_a minister_n thus_o where_o there_o be_v man_n sufficient_o qualify_v by_o god_n orderly_o at_o least_o for_o substance_n call_v to_o the_o ministry_n and_o do_v that_o work_n which_o christ_n appoint_v his_o minister_n to_o do_v there_o be_v true_a gospel-minister_n but_o in_o many_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n there_o be_v such_o man_n ergo_fw-la in_o many_o of_o the_o church_n of_o
let_v i_o examine_v what_o you_o say_v at_o present_a you_o will_v covenant_v together_o suppose_v yourselves_o to_o be_v saint_n first_o say_v you_o so_o be_v you_o saint_n by_o call_v how_o come_v you_o to_o be_v so_o what_o do_v god_n call_v you_o immediate_o no_o you_o must_v say_v many_o if_o not_o all_o of_o you_o who_o have_v any_o truth_n of_o grace_n by_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o word_n what_o by_o those_o minister_n from_o who_o you_o separate_v as_o no_o minister_n because_o of_o their_o ordination_n have_v the_o lord_n so_o far_o own_v his_o despise_a member_n as_o to_o make_v they_o the_o instrument_n to_o bring_v you_o to_o be_v visible_a saint_n fit_a to_o imbody_n or_o covenant_n &_o c_o and_o be_v these_o now_o no_o minister_n be_v you_o the_o effect_n of_o their_o ministerial_a labour_n and_o they_o no_o minister_n sure_o in_o this_o one_o thing_n you_o have_v overthrow_v yourselves_o but_o than_o you_o say_v you_o will_v ordain_v he_o this_o i_o will_v consider_v in_o its_o own_o place_n then_o he_o shall_v baptize_v but_o since_o he_o do_v renounce_v his_o own_o baptism_n also_o who_o shall_v baptize_v he_o first_o you_o must_v have_v a_o minister_n to_o do_v that_o to_o be_v sure_a he_o can_v do_v it_o himself_o nor_o none_o of_o you_o for_o you_o be_v private_a person_n to_o administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n before_o you_o be_v baptize_v be_v contrary_a to_o scripture_n rule_v there_o be_v a_o report_n when_o i_o be_v in_o new_a england_n that_o a_o carpenter_n re-baptised_n mr._n williams_n 269._o in_o just_o mar._n time_n none_o receive_v the_o supper_n but_o such_o as_o be_v first_o baptize_v apol._n 2._o ius_n divi._n apend_v p._n 269._o and_o then_o he_o do_v rebaptise_a the_o rest_n i_o do_v not_o stand_v to_o defend_v the_o thing_n whether_o it_o be_v true_a or_o no_o but_o it_o be_v like_a enough_o to_o be_v true_a and_o suitable_a to_o the_o other_o opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o that_o wild_a generation_n where_o be_v we_o now_o five_o that_o be_v very_o observable_a which_o the_o london_n minister_n have_v add_v in_o the_o defence_n of_o their_o ordination_n that_o in_o this_o church_n of_o england_n the_o corruption_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n will_v have_v introduce_v about_o ordination_n of_o minister_n and_o other_o ecclesiastical_a affair_n be_v withstand_v and_o oppose_v by_o the_o king_n of_o england_n nor_o do_v we_o read_v of_o any_o minister_n that_o be_v ordain_v by_o any_o agent_n send_v from_o rome_n but_o only_o some_o idle_a ceremony_n of_o confirmation_n or_o they_o that_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pall_n and_o the_o ring_n bring_v thence_o into_o england_n thus_o far_o the_o london_n minister_n in_o the_o margin_n they_o have_v set_v down_o the_o author_n that_o prove_v it_o six_o there_o may_v be_v another_o answer_n give_v by_o some_o who_o be_v good_a historian_n which_o i_o confess_v i_o be_o not_o want_v both_o time_n and_o such_o book_n so_o far_o as_o i_o can_v go_v i_o will_n that_o the_o church_n in_o england_n be_v at_o first_o right_o gather_v and_o constitute_v it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v doubt_v edition_n mart._n 1._o vol._n p._n 237_o last_o edition_n the_o instrument_n of_o gather_v be_v apostle_n or_o apostolical_a man_n as_o be_v evident_a by_o mr._n fox_n neither_o be_v it_o to_o be_v doubt_v but_o they_o do_v ordain_v officer_n in_o the_o church_n for_o we_o read_v of_o minister_n and_o bishop_n the_o land_n fall_v to_o the_o possession_n of_o the_o saxon_n about_o the_o year_n 568._o 147._o p._n 147._o the_o story_n say_v by_o they_o all_o the_o clergy_n and_o the_o christian_a minister_n of_o the_o britain_n be_v then_o utter_o drive_v out_o in_o so_o much_o that_o the_o archbishop_n of_o london_n and_o york_n go_v into_o wales_n thus_o long_o then_o it_o seem_v the_o minister_n of_o england_n have_v no_o ordination_n from_o rome_n 149._o p._n 149._o this_o appear_v also_o by_o austin_n who_o come_v into_o england_n in_o the_o year_n five_o hundred_o ninety_o eight_o he_o about_o the_o year_n six_o hundred_o 153._o p._n 153._o assemble_v the_o bishop_n and_o doctor_n of_o britain_n so_o that_o still_o here_o be_v minister_n but_o where_o their_o abode_n be_v the_o story_n set_v not_o down_o but_o suppose_v to_o be_v towards_o wales_n and_o charge_v they_o to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n to_o the_o englishman_n and_o also_o that_o they_o shall_v among_o themselves_o reform_v certain_a rite_n in_o their_o church_n so_o that_o still_o here_o be_v minister_n and_o church_n special_o for_o keep_v of_o eastertide_n baptise_v after_o the_o manner_n of_o rome_n etc._n etc._n to_o which_o the_o scot_n and_o britain_n will_v not_o agree_v this_o show_v they_o do_v not_o depend_v upon_o rome_n afterward_o there_o be_v another_o synod_n gather_v where_o seven_o bishop_n of_o britain_n be_v present_a and_o though_o we_o find_v a_o great_a battle_n fight_v present_o after_o where_o the_o britain_n be_v overcome_v yet_o the_o story_n do_v not_o mention_v that_o the_o minister_n be_v all_o slay_v there_o now_o the_o thing_n i_o aim_v at_o be_v this_o that_o since_o there_o be_v so_o many_o minister_n and_o bishop_n in_o england_n who_o have_v their_o ordination_n by_o succesfion_n from_o those_o apostolical_a man_n and_o not_o from_o rome_n and_o we_o find_v so_o many_o when_o austin_n come_v why_o may_v we_o not_o suppose_v that_o these_o may_v again_o preach_v the_o gospel_n to_o the_o englishman_n though_o at_o first_o they_o be_v opposite_a when_o they_o have_v smart_v for_o their_o folly_n and_o why_o may_v we_o not_o suppose_v they_o may_v return_v into_o england_n again_o especial_o into_o those_o part_n near_o wales_n also_o those_o who_o be_v drive_v out_o as_o the_o story_n say_v they_o be_v suppose_v into_o some_o other_o part_n may_v not_o they_o return_v into_o england_n also_o must_v we_o take_v the_o word_n of_o the_o story_n all_o the_o clergy_n and_o christian_a minister_n be_v drive_v out_o strict_o so_o as_o none_o at_o all_o be_v leave_v though_o latent_fw-la &_o c_o those_o who_o be_v good_a historian_n may_v help_v here_o and_o it_o will_v be_v some_o answer_n to_o that_o objection_n of_o our_o ordination_n come_v from_o rome_n though_o unto_o i_o the_o objection_n be_v very_o feeble_a if_o this_o answer_n can_v be_v make_v out_o as_o for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v right_o at_o first_o gather_v 111._o way_n of_o ch._n in_o n._n e._n ch._n 7._o p._n 111._o as_o above_o mention_v mr._n cotton_n yield_v it_o so_o as_o he_o say_v that_o all_o the_o work_n now_o be_v not_o to_o make_v they_o church_n which_o be_v none_o before_o but_o to_o reduce_v and_o restore_v they_o to_o their_o primitive_a institution_n etc._n etc._n to_o that_o part_n of_o the_o objection_n they_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n i_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o think_v of_o master_n bradford_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o those_o holy_a minister_n and_o martyr_n that_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o bishop_n in_o those_o day_n cranmer_n ridley_n hooper_n &_o c_o be_v he_o a_o anti-christian_n minister_n and_o all_o those_o minister_n who_o be_v then_o ordain_v though_o now_o they_o be_v scarce_o get_v out_o of_o the_o popish_a ceremony_n etc._n etc._n the_o holy_a martyr_n than_o do_v never_o offer_v to_o separate_v from_o mr._n bradford_n and_o the_o rest_n nor_o call_v they_o antichristian_a minister_n i_o pray_v how_o many_o such_o bradford_n have_v you_o among_o you_o not_o all_o the_o separatist_n in_o england_n can_v afford_v such_o a_o one_o christ_n call_v he_o his_o faithful_a minister_n but_o you_o say_v mr._n bradford_n be_v none_o curse_v be_v that_o doctrine_n now_o if_o those_o minister_n be_v true_a minister_n though_o they_o have_v a_o episcopal_a ordination_n than_o so_o be_v we_o notwithstanding_o their_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n it_o be_v vain_a to_o say_v those_o bishop_n be_v godly_a man_n so_o be_v ot_fw-mi we_o for_o it_o be_v a_o bold_a assertion_n to_o say_v that_o none_o of_o the_o bishop_n since_o have_v be_v godly_a man_n no_o doubt_n there_o be_v divers_a in_o heaven_n and_o beside_o it_o be_v absurd_a to_o think_v that_o the_o truth_n and_o efficacy_n of_o a_o ordinance_n depend_v upon_o the_o truth_n of_o grace_n in_o he_o who_o do_v administer_v it_o as_o for_o ceremony_n if_o you_o search_v they_o be_v not_o clear_v then_o no_o more_o than_o our_o bishop_n be_v it_o be_v a_o silly_a shift_n to_o say_v they_o walk_v according_a to_o their_o light_n i_o hope_v there_o be_v the_o same_o rule_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o minister_n then_o that_o be_v now_o it_o be_v not_o their_o light_n which_o make_v they_o true_a minister_n but_o the_o rule_n but_o the_o truth_n of_o their_o ministry_n be_v never_o
than_o i_o desire_v no_o more_o if_o they_o be_v so_o far_o minister_n as_o to_o administer_v baptism_n to_o you_o than_o they_o may_v well_o administer_v ordination_n to_o we_o renounce_v therefore_o the_o baptism_n you_o have_v by_o they_o so_o i_o be_o sure_a you_o can_v ordain_v and_o when_o you_o be_v regular_o re-baptised_n and_o can_v warrant_v your_o act_n and_o prove_v that_o you_o have_v the_o power_n to_o ordain_v than_o we_o will_v listen_v to_o you_o for_o my_o own_o ordination_n it_o be_v in_o the_o face_n of_o my_o people_n the_o day_n be_v spend_v in_o fast_v and_o prayer_n those_o who_o carry_v on_o the_o work_n be_v mr._n dan._n rogers_n mr._n martial_n mr._n ranew_o with_o other_o godly_a minister_n who_o join_v with_o they_o in_o the_o impose_v of_o hand_n the_o minister_n live_v about_o i_o i_o never_o see_v that_o ordinance_n carry_v on_o with_o more_o solemnity_n in_o my_o life_n the_o people_n show_v their_o election_n by_o suffrage_n hold_v up_o their_o hand_n all_o be_v do_v according_a to_o the_o pattern_n but_o yet_o i_o be_o a_o man_n as_o much_o scorn_v as_o other_o man_n who_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n i_o can_v submit_v to_o god_n in_o that_o scorn_n that_o these_o cast_n upon_o i_o for_o i_o deserve_v it_o at_o his_o hand_n only_a there_o be_v a_o foul_a error_n commit_v at_o my_o ordination_n and_o it_o be_v tell_v up_o and_o down_o by_o some_o of_o this_o kind_n against_o who_o i_o write_v and_o i_o pray_v what_o be_v it_o this_o the_o minister_n impose_v hand_n in_o my_o ordination_n this_o have_v be_v talk_v of_o as_o a_o strange_a thing_n but_o let_v i_o answer_v for_o the_o minister_n it_o be_v no_o error_n much_o less_o such_o a_o great_a one_o as_o you_o make_v it_o 1_o if_o private_a man_n carpenter_n and_o tailor_n may_v impose_v hand_n why_o may_v not_o minister_n but_o the_o former_a have_v do_v it_o ergo._n 2_o all_o the_o ordination_n that_o ever_o i_o see_v in_o new_a england_n be_v perform_v with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n i_o have_v see_v deacon_n ordain_v thus_o 3_o if_o you_o be_v wise_a than_o the_o elder_n in_o new_a england_n 74._o answ_n to_o the_o 32._o que_fw-la p._n 67._o survey_v of_o church_n dise_z p._n 2._o p._n 74._o and_o master_n hooker_n then_o overthrow_v they_o for_o they_o conceive_v it_o near_o to_o the_o institution_n 4_o if_o you_o observe_v the_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n which_o be_v our_o guide_n in_o church_n affair_n we_o shall_v find_v ordination_n have_v be_v thus_o perform_v as_o act_n 6.6_o act._n 13.3_o 1_o tim._n 4.14_o 1_o tim._n 5.22_o heb._n 6.2_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n which_o place_n by_o classical_a man_n congregationall_a man_n and_o separatist_n be_v interpret_v of_o ordination_n i_o do_v not_o here_o bring_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o church_n in_o former_a time_n because_o i_o intend_v not_o to_o handle_v the_o controversy_n whether_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v necessary_o require_v in_o ordination_n but_o bring_v you_o in_o as_o many_o example_n from_o scripture_n where_o there_o be_v minister_n ordain_v without_o imposition_n of_o hand_n as_o also_o the_o practice_n of_o other_o true_a church_n orthodox_n and_o sound_n who_o do_v ordain_v without_o etc._n etc._n or_o else_o be_v ashamed_a of_o your_o ignorance_n and_o charge_v not_o those_o man_n with_o error_n where_o none_o be_v but_o a_o true_a follow_v the_o pattern_n the_o substance_n and_o essence_n then_o of_o ordination_n be_v this_o that_o person_n qualify_v ministerial_o be_v set_v apart_o or_o separate_v for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n by_o person_n in_o office_n ordinary_o it_o must_v be_v thus_o what_o may_v be_v do_v extraordinary_o when_o no_o officer_n can_v be_v have_v be_v another_o case_n the_o minister_n in_o england_n have_v that_o ordinance_n for_o the_o substance_n and_o they_o have_v the_o election_n and_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n it_o be_v hardly_o to_o be_v suppose_v that_o every_o individual_a person_n in_o a_o parish_n will_v consent_v to_o every_o godly_a minister_n but_o consent_v there_o be_v hence_o these_o two_o concur_v to_o the_o call_v which_o be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o minister_n many_o presbyterial_a minister_n be_v true_a minister_n i_o dare_v say_v more_o but_o i_o be_o sure_a now_o i_o save_v myself_o but_o i_o have_v not_o do_v with_o ordination_n yet_o i_o shall_v meet_v with_o it_o once_o again_o afterward_o let_v we_o now_o come_v and_o try_v the_o second_o ground_n for_o separation_n scil_n the_o worship_n of_o god_n the_o fault_n here_o must_v be_v reduce_v to_o one_o of_o these_o three_o head_n either_o 1_o because_o they_o can_v enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n in_o these_o church_n or_o 2_o because_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n be_v mix_v with_o humane_a invention_n that_o they_o can_v partake_v of_o they_o without_o sin_n or_o 3_o because_o here_o be_v other_o ordinance_n set_v up_o in_o the_o church_n then_o ever_o christ_n do_v institute_v i_o can_v conceive_v any_o more_o for_o the_o first_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o that_o there_o be_v a_o defect_n of_o some_o ordinance_n be_v that_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o separation_n mr._n hooker_n say_v no._n if_o a_o father_n of_o a_o family_n want_v a_o rod_n in_o his_o house_n discip_n the_o preface_n to_o survey_v of_o church_n discip_n be_v it_o ergo_fw-la no_o family_n there_o may_v be_v some_o disorder_n in_o the_o house_n for_o want_v of_o good_a government_n yet_o a_o family_n divers_a divine_n of_o great_a note_n conceive_v by_o that_o text_n nehem._n 8.17_o 18._o that_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n do_v omit_v the_o celebration_n of_o the_o feast_n of_o tabernacle_n almost_o the_o space_n of_o a_o thousand_o year_n the_o ark_n be_v absent_a from_o the_o tabernacle_n from_o the_o time_n of_o eli_n to_o the_o time_n of_o david_n 1_o sam._n 4.11_o compare_v with_o 2_o sam._n 6_o 17._o and_o it_o be_v a_o great_a fault_n the_o scribe_n reject_v the_o baptism_n of_o john_n but_o where_o do_v you_o find_v any_o separation_n all_o this_o while_n that_o the_o godly_a shall_v not_o join_v with_o that_o church_n and_o partake_v in_o what_o ordinance_n they_o have_v but_o this_o objection_n have_v no_o place_n in_o these_o church_n for_o prayer_n preach_v administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n yea_o discipline_n they_o have_v in_o the_o episcopal_a day_n they_o do_v suspend_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o the_o bishop_n give_v the_o minister_n power_n but_o suspension_n be_v the_o lesser_a excommunication_n and_o now_o to_o be_v sure_a there_o be_v none_o want_v at_o least_o shall_v not_o be_v if_o the_o minister_n be_v not_o hinder_v in_o set_v up_o all_o the_o ordinance_n obj._n no_o say_v you_o the_o classical_a church_n have_v no_o explicit_a covenant_n for_o the_o form_n of_o they_o they_o will_v not_o admit_v it_o into_o their_o church_n therefore_o we_o separate_v i_o shall_v meet_v with_o this_o in_o another_o place_n only_o for_o the_o present_a disprove_v what_o mr._n hooker_n have_v say_v and_o the_o former_a example_n i_o have_v give_v you_o but_o yet_o you_o will_v have_v a_o hard_a piece_n of_o work_n to_o prove_v this_o to_o be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o your_o separation_n as_o afterward_o i_o hope_v i_o shall_v make_v good_a for_o the_o second_o humane_a mixture_n in_o ordinance_n this_o indeed_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o the_o old_a separatist_n yet_o in_o those_o day_n many_o holy_a and_o learned_a divine_n write_v against_o the_o separation_n but_o in_o these_o day_n that_o stumble_a block_n be_v remove_v and_o this_o let_v i_o say_v that_o if_o you_o read_v over_o all_o the_o church-story_n since_o there_o be_v a_o church_n upon_o the_o earth_n there_o can_v be_v find_v any_o example_n of_o such_o separatist_n as_o be_v now_o among_o we_o the_o old_a donatist_n have_v their_o minister_n yea_o bishop_n as_o well_o as_o presbyter_n the_o separate_a church_n of_o late_a day_n have_v their_o minister_n and_o how_o strict_o do_v they_o maintain_v and_o practice_v all_o those_o ordinance_n which_o we_o laugh_v at_o as_o sing_v of_o psalm_n infant-baptism_n observation_n of_o the_o sabbath_n and_o such_o opinion_n as_o those_o learned_a and_o godly_a man_n mr._n ainsworth_n robinson_n johnson_n do_v abhor_v be_v swallow_v down_o among_o we_o so_o that_o these_o man_n can_v ground_v their_o practice_n from_o any_o example_n heretofore_o and_o as_o for_o the_o scripture_n if_o they_o can_v find_v any_o ground_n there_o i_o must_v confess_v i_o be_o altogether_o ignorant_a in_o the_o scripture_n suppose_v there_o shall_v be_v some_o human_a mixture_n though_o for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v of_o none_o be_v all_o the_o ordinance_n so_o pollute_v preach_v and_o prayer_n be_v keep_v pure_a in_o the_o episcopal_a day_n
but_o be_v at_o first_o a_o notorious_a wretch_n '_o a_fw-fr mock-god_n captain_n of_o drunkard_n who_o come_v into_o the_o church_n as_o the_o minister_n be_v in_o prayer_n god_n break_v his_o heart_n and_o follow_v it_o on_o so_o as_o he_o become_v a_o eminent_a saint_n object_n they_o mix_v with_o we_o in_o our_o sing_n mix_a worship_n we_o can_v join_v in_o answ_n i_o can_v conceive_v what_o harm_n this_o can_v do_v to_o you_o be_v the_o mix_n of_o your_o own_o corruption_n in_o your_o service_n less_o prejudicial_a to_o the_o acceptance_n of_o it_o with_o god_n than_o the_o presence_n of_o wicked_a man_n join_v in_o the_o service_n if_o indeed_o you_o can_v prove_v to_o i_o that_o god_n will_v not_o have_v wicked_a man_n sing_v but_o if_o they_o do_v he_o will_v not_o accept_v of_o the_o service_n of_o his_o people_n this_o be_v some_o ground_n for_o your_o exception_n but_o i_o conceive_v you_o will_v not_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v the_o former_a much_o less_o the_o latter_a that_o wicked_a man_n may_v sing_v i_o prove_v thus_o first_o if_o wicked_a man_n may_v pray_v unto_o god_n as_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v than_o they_o may_v praise_v god_n the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v this_o also_o nature_n teach_v i_o to_o pray_v to_o god_n for_o what_o i_o want_v and_o nature_n teach_v i_o to_o praise_n god_n for_o what_o i_o receive_v if_o then_o natural_a man_n may_v praise_v god_n with_o their_o mouth_n for_o praise_v must_v be_v express_v with_o tongue_n or_o pen_n if_o you_o take_v it_o proper_o as_o i_o say_v before_o why_o not_o by_o sing_v god_n have_v give_v this_o gift_n to_o they_o as_o well_o as_o to_o other_o but_o that_o to_o praise_n god_n be_v a_o part_n of_o natural_a worship_n and_o belong_v to_o all_o man_n we_o may_v conceive_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o philistines_n judg._n 16.23_o they_o meet_v to_o offer_v a_o great_a sacrifice_n to_o dagon_n and_o to_o rejoice_v because_o of_o samson_n here_o be_v a_o day_n of_o thanksgiving_n so_o 1_o chron._n 10.9_o because_o saul_n be_v slay_v etc._n etc._n if_o we_o go_v to_o the_o roman_n we_o shall_v find_v nature_n have_v teach_v they_o to_o sing_v to_o their_o feign_a god_n 19_o godw._n rom._n ant._n l._n 2._o s_o 2._o c._n 19_o not_o to_o transcribe_v their_o rite_n in_o their_o sacrifice_n after_o the_o portion_n lay_v out_o for_o the_o god_n have_v be_v burn_v then_o do_v all_o the_o people_n repair_v to_o a_o common_a feast_n where_o as_o they_o be_v eat_v they_o sing_v hymn_n and_o song_n in_o the_o praise_n of_o their_o god_n and_o play_v on_o cymbal_n they_o dance_v about_o the_o altar_n intimate_v thereby_o that_o there_o be_v no_o part_n of_o their_o body_n but_o shall_v be_v employ_v in_o the_o service_n of_o their_o god_n etc._n etc._n if_o nature_n teach_v the_o roman_n to_o sing_v hymn_n and_o song_n to_o their_o feign_a and_o foolish_a god_n why_o shall_v wicked_a man_n be_v debar_v from_o sing_v to_o the_o true_a god_n 2._o we_o find_v exod._n 15.1_o moses_n and_o the_o son_n of_o israel_n sing_v a_o song_n to_o the_o lord_n in_o v._o 12._o miriam_n bid_v the_o woman_n sing_v i_o doubt_v not_o but_o among_o these_o son_n and_o daughter_n of_o israel_n there_o be_v person_n as_o corrupt_v as_o any_o in_o our_o congregation_n then_o the_o presence_n of_o wicked_a man_n do_v not_o so_o defile_v you_o or_o the_o ordinance_n as_o be_v suppose_v to_o themselves_o indeed_o it_o be_v pollute_v as_o be_v all_o other_o thing_n but_o this_o hinder_v not_o moses_n nor_o miriam_n they_o do_v not_o separate_v all_o those_o who_o be_v godly_a from_o the_o rest_n and_o sing_v only_o with_o they_o i_o doubt_v they_o shall_v have_v have_v but_o few_o songster_n 3._o may_v a_o wicked_a man_n read_v a_o psalm_n or_o one_o of_o those_o song_n give_v i_o a_o reason_n why_o not_o will_v you_o debar_v a_o wicked_a man_n from_o read_v the_o word_n if_o he_o may_v read_v a_o psalm_n why_o may_v not_o he_o sing_v the_o psalm_n to_o read_v the_o word_n be_v worship_n so_o to_o sing_v the_o psalm_n be_v worship_n it_o be_v true_a he_o can_v sing_v as_o he_o shall_v no_o more_o he_o can_v read_v the_o psalm_n as_o he_o shall_v nor_o hear_v etc._n etc._n therefore_o he_o must_v not_o read_v nor_o hear_v the_o word_n to_o sing_v be_v we_o see_v teach_v by_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o to_o pray_v read_v or_o hear_v the_o word_n this_o ordinance_n be_v not_o as_o the_o sacrament_n which_o we_o do_v not_o see_v so_o by_o nature_n light_n but_o have_v they_o by_o divine_a institution_n reveal_v have_v also_o a_o seal_a nature_n annex_v to_o they_o 4._o we_o find_v the_o word_n call_v upon_o all_o sort_n of_o person_n to_o praise_n god_n psal_n 96.1_o sing_v unto_o the_o lord_n all_o the_o earth_n psal_n 68.32_o sing_v unto_o the_o lord_n all_o the_o kingdom_n of_o the_o earth_n etc._n etc._n several_a such_o text_n we_o find_v i_o may_v add_v more_o argument_n and_o answer_v to_o some_o objection_n but_o i_o content_v myself_o with_o these_o object_n but_o they_o mix_v with_o we_o in_o the_o lord_n supper_n answ_n that_o the_o presence_n of_o other_o defile_v you_o especial_o if_o you_o have_v do_v your_o duty_n to_o keep_v that_o ordinance_n clear_v be_v a_o thing_n that_o our_o congregational_a man_n utter_o deny_v those_o who_o be_v acquaint_v with_o their_o work_n may_v see_v it_o often_o mention_v therefore_o i_o quote_v none_o 2._o i_o will_v be_v bold_a to_o say_v there_o be_v many_o presbyterial_a minister_n who_o have_v as_o few_o wicked_a man_n at_o that_o ordinance_n as_o be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n there_o be_v more_o matter_n of_o exception_n in_o that_o church_n for_o the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n then_o be_v in_o abundance_n of_o these_o church_n beside_o you_o see_v what_o course_n they_o do_v take_v to_o keep_v that_o ordinance_n clear_a and_o when_o they_o can_v not_o obtain_v what_o they_o desire_v of_o the_o civil_a power_n yet_o they_o resolve_v to_o go_v further_o which_o give_v mr._n prynne_n occasion_n to_o write_v against_o they_o 3._o i_o doubt_v if_o we_o examine_v thing_n well_o yourselves_o be_v most_o to_o blame_v in_o that_o for_o which_o you_o separate_v suppose_v you_o be_v in_o a_o congregationall_a church_n and_o have_v all_o thing_n as_o you_o desire_v if_o there_o be_v any_o person_n there_o who_o fall_v scandalous_o that_o he_o deserve_v to_o be_v suspend_v from_o the_o ordinance_n i_o pray_v tell_v i_o what_o method_n will_v you_o take_v i_o be_o sure_a the_o method_n be_v this_o if_o thy_o brother_n offend_v tell_v he_o if_o he_o hear_v thou_o not_o take_v two_o if_o not_o tell_v the_o church_n matth._n 18._o what_o shall_v the_o minister_n alone_o suspend_v he_o it_o may_v be_v he_o know_v not_o of_o it_o when_o no_o witness_n come_v in_o against_o he_o no_o sure_o yea_o suppose_v a_o minister_n see_v a_o man_n drink_v one_o of_o his_o member_n and_o none_o see_v he_o or_o know_v it_o but_o himself_o he_o deal_v indeed_o with_o this_o member_n but_o the_o man_n deny_v it_o he_o say_v he_o be_v not_o the_o minister_n be_v sure_a he_o be_v drink_v but_o want_v witness_n the_o man_n come_v to_o the_o supper_n deny_v the_o thing_n though_o the_o minister_n have_v wish_v he_o private_o to_o forbear_v shall_v the_o minister_n now_o debar_v he_o no_o sure_a the_o text_n lay_v another_o method_n the_o minister_n must_v not_o be_v the_o sole_a witness_n and_o judge_n too_o for_o if_o minister_n may_v debar_v upon_o their_o own_o head_n without_o witness_n they_o may_v soon_o do_v strange_a thing_n now_o have_v you_o do_v thus_o deal_v with_o the_o person_n or_o two_o of_o you_o go_v to_o the_o minister_n and_o tell_v he_o you_o know_v such_o thing_n by_o such_o person_n which_o you_o can_v and_o will_v prove_v such_o thing_n as_o if_o not_o repent_v of_o make_v he_o unfit_a for_o the_o ordinance_n 3._o see_v master_n barro_n hos_n cap._n 5._o v._n 3._o and_o have_v the_o minister_n yet_o receive_v he_o if_o he_o have_v you_o have_v discharge_v your_o duty_n and_o no_o guilt_n lie_v on_o you_o you_o may_v partake_v i_o doubt_v there_o be_v few_o have_v done-thus_a but_o if_o they_o be_v person_n of_o quality_n especial_o than_o you_o pull_v in_o your_o horn_n afraid_a to_o appear_v but_o yet_o you_o will_v have_v the_o minister_n to_o suspend_v he_o when_o no_o witness_n come_v in_o contrary_a to_o the_o rule_n or_o else_o you_o separate_v this_o blame_n will_v lie_v on_o your_o own_o head_n all_o your_o shift_n here_o be_v we_o have_v no_o power_n to_o deal_v with_o man_n we_o want_v a_o explicit_a
covenant_n though_o i_o can_v hearty_o wish_v all_o our_o minister_n will_v follow_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o holland_n church_n who_o cause_n all_o apollon_n apollon_n who_o come_v to_o the_o sacrament_n to_o promise_v to_o subject_n to_o discipline_n yet_o for_o the_o present_a i_o say_v this_o there_o be_v a_o implicit_a covenant_n in_o all_o these_o church_n and_o if_o you_o be_v afraid_a to_o speak_v to_o these_o person_n first_o who_o you_o will_v have_v suspend_v then_o go_v to_o the_o minister_n and_o carry_v sufficient_a witness_n as_o you_o must_v do_v in_o any_o church_n and_o i_o be_o confident_a without_o satisfaction_n give_v no_o more_o can_v be_v require_v in_o any_o church_n thousand_o of_o the_o presbyterial_a minister_n will_v keep_v away_o scandalous_a person_n at_o least_o you_o be_v clear_a as_o i_o say_v before_o yet_o to_o see_v these_o man_n separate_v for_o that_o in_o which_o themselves_o be_v most_o to_o blame_v obj._n but_o they_o baptize_v all_o child_n make_v no_o difference_n though_o never_o so_o scandalous_a a._n though_o this_o be_v very_o seldom_o urge_v yet_o because_o i_o will_v draw_v out_o all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v i_o add_v this_o for_o my_o own_o practice_n i_o confess_v in_o this_o i_o differ_v from_o other_o man_n far_o better_a than_o myself_o but_o yet_o be_v i_o a_o member_n of_o some_o other_o presbyterial_a congregation_n i_o shall_v not_o dare_v to_o separate_v upon_o this_o ground_n 1_o it_o be_v grant_v by_o our_o congregationall_a man_n 11._o mr._n hook_n survey_v p._n 3_o p._n 11._o that_o though_o person_n be_v very_o wicked_a yet_o so_o long_o as_o they_o live_v in_o visible_a church_n and_o be_v not_o proceed_v against_o they_o may_v just_o challenge_v the_o privilege_n of_o church-member_n but_o i_o dare_v not_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o which_o there_o be_v many_o such_o for_o there_o be_v many_o both_o real_a and_o visible_a saint_n in_o such_o church_n where_o these_o wicked_a man_n be_v obj._n but_o then_o this_o make_v against_o yourself_o in_o deny_v some_o child_n baptism_n a._n practice_n learned_a mr._n cawdrey_n come_v to_o my_o hand_n after_o i_o have_v print_v my_o little_a treatise_n have_v i_o see_v he_o before_o i_o shall_v have_v humble_o present_v some_o answer_n to_o some_o thing_n which_o i_o see_v theâ—e_n so_o far_o as_o concern_v my_o question_n the_o question_n about_o confederacy_n do_v not_o concern_v i_o also_o i_o will_v have_v propound_v some_o reason_n why_o his_o three_o way_n i_o e._n adoption_n i_o shall_v not_o so_o easy_o admit_v under_o the_o new_a testament_n till_o those_o reason_n be_v remove_v i_o perceive_v he_o admire_v at_o they_o who_o deny_v the_o child_n of_o excommunicate_v parent_n baptism_n i_o have_v no_o place_n now_o to_o answer_v but_o only_o this_o i_o say_v it_o be_v not_o good_a to_o put_v too_o much_o upon_o baptism_n nor_o too_o little_a upon_o that_o dreadful_a ordinance_n of_o excommunication_n what_o he_o say_v p._n 202._o about_o the_o impotence_n to_o reject_v profane_a person_n through_o the_o iniquity_n of_o the_o time_n which_o imply_v what_o he_o will_v do_v if_o he_o have_v power_n confirm_v my_o practice_n i_o answer_v as_o i_o have_v declare_v in_o that_o little_a tract_n upon_o this_o question_n which_o the_o uncivil_a carriage_n of_o some_o in_o the_o congregation_n when_o i_o have_v deal_v love_o with_o they_o in_o private_a before_o force_v i_o to_o print_v i_o deny_v not_o they_o baptism_n absolute_o but_o as_o i_o suspend_v they_o from_o one_o of_o the_o seal_n so_o i_o do_v from_o this_o also_o till_o they_o will_v labour_v to_o get_v out_o of_o their_o gross_a ignorance_n and_o scandalous_a conversation_n and_o will_v subject_v themselves_o to_o church-discipline_n so_o that_o i_o do_v as_o say_v the_o london_n minister_n separate_v in_o the_o church_n but_o not_o from_o the_o church_n as_o the_o state_n of_o our_o lapse_v church_n will_v give_v we_o leave_v i_o desire_v to_o proceed_v against_o such_o yet_o but_o gentle_o as_o for_o excommunication_n that_o be_v a_o great_a work_n have_v the_o advantage_n in_o the_o church_n that_o many_o good_a minister_n better_o than_o myself_o have_v not_o viz._n that_o the_o strong_a party_n in_o the_o town_n be_v religious_a but_o have_v many_o presbyterial_a man_n the_o same_o advantage_n i_o believe_v you_o shall_v see_v they_o will_v be_v more_o strict_a than_o now_o they_o be_v congregation_n must_v be_v mend_v by_o degree_n to_o purge_v per_fw-mi vice_n in_o foul_a body_n be_v better_a than_o at_o first_o to_o give_v hellebore_n scammony_n and_o such_o strong_a worker_n it_o will_v cost_v abundance_n of_o prayer_n wisdom_n labour_n meekness_n to_o bring_v these_o congregation_n fall_v into_o this_o ignorance_n and_o profaneness_n for_o want_v of_o catechise_v and_o discipline_n let_v the_o bishop_n look_v to_o their_o account_n beside_o divers_a presbyterial_a minister_n do_v examine_v their_o people_n before_o they_o will_v baptise_v yea_o and_o i_o have_v hear_v one_o who_o be_v esteem_v a_o rigid_a presbyterian_a say_v that_o if_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v settle_v they_o will_v baptise_v none_o but_o they_o will_v have_v the_o parent_n 1._o examine_v in_o point_n of_o knowledge_n 2._o if_o they_o be_v scandalous_a that_o they_o shall_v confess_v their_o sin_n 3._o promise_v for_o the_o time_n to_o come_v to_o reform_v 4._o that_o if_o person_n will_v refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n they_o will_v deny_v they_o the_o lord_n supper_n since_o than_o it_o be_v in_o the_o heart_n of_o many_o to_o reform_v and_o it_o be_v the_o thing_n they_o will_v glad_o have_v power_n to_o do_v i_o think_v it_o be_v very_o unwarrantable_a upon_o this_o ground_n to_o separate_v from_o they_o beside_o there_o be_v many_o reason_n they_o give_v for_o baptise_v of_o all_o that_o do_v but_o profess_v christ_n which_o though_o they_o be_v not_o satisfactory_a unto_o i_o so_o as_o to_o give_v the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n to_o one_o who_o say_v he_o believe_v in_o christ_n but_o yet_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a scandalous_a etc._n etc._n yet_o their_o reason_n prevail_v with_o i_o so_o as_o to_o be_v very_o charitable_a to_o those_o who_o do_v baptise_v upon_o those_o ground_n if_o there_o be_v any_o sin_n in_o it_o let_v the_o minister_n look_v to_o that_o that_o be_v not_o your_o fault_n certain_o people_n think_v it_o be_v a_o very_a easy_a thing_n to_o reform_v church_n it_o may_v be_v do_v with_o a_o wet_a finger_n but_o if_o they_o be_v in_o the_o place_n of_o minister_n and_o have_v what_o knowledge_n be_v fit_a for_o the_o place_n they_o will_v find_v it_o a_o hard_a work_n especial_o some_o church_n so_o then_o as_o yet_o we_o find_v no_o ground_n warrantable_a for_o this_o separation_n i_o come_v to_o the_o last_o the_o place_n of_o meeting_n it_o be_v idolatrous_a and_o i_o know_v not_o what_o i_o think_v here_o to_o have_v give_v in_o some_o answer_n to_o this_o absurd_a cavil_n but_o the_o practice_n of_o this_o generation_n have_v give_v in_o a_o full_a answer_n for_o it_o be_v observe_v in_o a_o neighbour_n town_n the_o minister_n not_o preach_v upon_o a_o day_n of_o thanksgiving_n a_o trooper_n get_v into_o the_o pulpit_n and_o do_v etc._n etc._n this_o be_v such_o a_o pretty_a thing_n that_o divers_a of_o the_o separatist_n in_o the_o town_n who_o have_v not_o be_v in_o the_o steeplehouse_n for_o some_o year_n before_o run_v in_o haste_n and_o become_v auditor_n of_o the_o trooper_n another_o of_o they_o who_o call_v himself_o the_o king_n of_o england_n come_v to_o i_o and_o offer_v to_o supply_v my_o place_n the_o man_n be_v mad_a as_o error_n have_v make_v he_o mad_a but_o for_o all_o civil_a action_n sober_a enough_o now_o from_o these_o practice_n i_o gather_v that_o either_o it_o be_v no_o sin_n to_o meet_v in_o a_o steeplehouse_n as_o they_o call_v it_o or_o else_o they_o have_v no_o good_a conscience_n these_o practice_n be_v frequent_a if_o trooper_n get_v into_o pulpit_n for_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o assemble_v in_o these_o place_n mr._n lect._n hos_fw-la 2._o ch_z 15._o lect._n burrough_n have_v plead_v more_o may_v be_v add_v but_o i_o spare_v the_o reader_n as_o yet_o then_o we_o have_v find_v no_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o separation_n i_o shall_v desire_v yet_o to_o come_v near_o and_o request_n of_o these_o person_n what_o it_o be_v they_o will_v have_v which_o way_n may_v we_o be_v bring_v to_o a_o union_n if_o what_o they_o propound_v be_v rational_a and_o will_v be_v bear_v out_o by_o scripture_n we_o shall_v desire_n to_o come_v up_o to_o they_o for_o i_o be_o sure_a in_o that_o posture_n we_o now_o stand_v nothing_o can_v go_v forward_o i_o have_v not_o their_o proposal_n before_o
tell_v i_o how_o may_v any_o one_o who_o be_v not_o a_o officer_n dispense_v the_o seal_n preach_v authoritative_o &_o c_o you_o practise_v indeed_o some_o of_o you_o as_o if_o he_o may_v but_o it_o be_v a_o thing_n abhor_v of_o all_o man_n both_o classical_a and_o congregationall_a god_n be_v a_o god_n of_o order_n in_o his_o house_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o world_n in_o the_o civil_a state_n none_o must_v be_v justice_n of_o peace_n unless_o set_v apart_o to_o the_o office_n 14.14_o heb._n 5.4_o jer._n 14.14_o every_o man_n can_v make_v warrant_n nor_o execute_v justice_n yet_o some_o man_n have_v as_o much_o knowledge_n in_o the_o law_n as_o many_o justice_n have_v but_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n there_o must_v be_v no_o order_n our_o minister_n then_o have_v be_v but_o private_a man_n all_o this_o while_n they_o have_v dispense_v the_o ordinance_n it_o be_v the_o call_v to_o a_o place_n or_o office_n that_o make_v man_n officer_n or_o public_a person_n but_o call_v they_o have_v none_o by_o your_o esteem_n learned_a chamier_n prove_v 45_o to._n 4._o l._n 5._o c._n 14._o survey_v ch_n this_fw-mi part_n 2._o pag._n 42._o 45_o that_o baptism_n administer_v by_o a_o private_a person_n be_v no_o sacrament_n at_o all_o mr._n hooker_n speak_v home_o to_o this_o point_n he_o lay_v down_o this_o conclusion_n that_o there_o be_v a_o causal_n virtue_n put_v forth_o in_o a_o subordinate_a way_n under_o christ_n to_o bring_v in_o the_o specifical_a be_v of_o a_o ecclesiastical_a office_n to_o a_o person_n etc._n etc._n after_o three_o thing_n premise_v he_o come_v to_o a_o four_o viz._n person_n though_o gift_a and_o fit_v every_o way_n be_v they_o never_o so_o many_o they_o be_v not_o therefore_o officer_n a_o call_v they_o must_v have_v without_o which_o none_o can_v warrantable_o do_v any_o act_n which_o belong_v to_o a_o officer_n without_o this_o whatever_o be_v do_v in_o that_o behalf_n be_v void_a and_o of_o none_o effect_n the_o validity_n of_o a_o outward_a call_n appear_v in_o this_o if_o it_o proceed_v from_o such_o who_o may_v give_v it_o by_o rule_n because_o whosoever_o have_v regular_o receive_v this_o call_n he_o be_v then_o a_o true_a officer_n though_o not_o inward_o grace_v and_o fit_v worthy_o to_o such_o a_o place_n etc._n etc._n afterward_o he_o speak_v to_o this_o purpose_n again_o 9_o pag._n 3._o p._n 9_o it_o be_v a_o frenzy_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n which_o begin_v to_o labour_v with_o the_o loathsomenesse_n of_o itself_o that_o any_o christian_n gift_v who_o can_v teach_v or_o administer_v a_o word_n of_o instruction_n to_o win_v a_o disciple_n after_o he_o that_o he_o in_o a_o corner_n may_v baptise_v he_o but_o as_o paul_n say_v of_o janne_n and_o jambres_n their_o madness_n be_v make_v to_o appear_v to_o all_o etc._n etc._n if_o the_o lord_n christ_n in_o his_o infinite_a wisdom_n and_o kingly_a care_n conceive_v it_o necessary_a for_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o place_n and_o the_o execution_n of_o the_o work_n of_o a_o deacon_n to_o appoint_v choice_a man_n and_o solemn_a ordination_n to_o authorize_v they_o to_o the_o work_n etc._n etc._n the_o sum_n be_v the_o practice_n be_v but_o loathsome_a and_o the_o act_n of_o such_o man_n be_v void_a who_o do_v such_o thing_n as_o proper_o belong_v to_o a_o church-officer_n and_o be_v not_o call_v to_o the_o office_n thus_o mr._n hooker_n mr._n 2._o key_n p._n 6_o inst_z l._n 4_o c._n 15._o s_o 20_o in_o par_fw-fr 2._o 1._o vol._n p._n 766._o bell._n enter_v to_o 3._o l._n 2._o c._n 2._o cotton_n he_o speak_v against_o such_o practice_n so_o do_v the_o stream_n of_o all_o divine_n calvin_n zanchy_a perkins_n ames_n etc._n etc._n hence_o than_o if_o you_o null_a their_o call_n you_o must_v null_a all_o the_o act_n they_o have_v do_v as_o minister_n and_o you_o will_v be_v trouble_v as_o i_o say_v before_o which_o way_n to_o come_v into_o order_n you_o have_v better_a therefore_o be_v quiet_a and_o if_o you_o will_v needs_o quarrel_v with_o their_o ordination_n yet_o content_v yourselves_o with_o their_o election_n which_o you_o say_v be_v the_o chief_a before_o i_o pass_v on_o to_o my_o last_o answer_n let_v i_o a_o little_a examine_v this_o thesis_n viz._n election_n give_v the_o essential_o and_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n heretofore_o i_o have_v indeed_o be_v of_o this_o opinion_n never_o much_o weigh_v the_o thing_n be_v whole_o carry_v away_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o dr._n ames_n and_o mr._n hooker_n and_o other_o admire_v their_o learning_n and_o holiness_n see_v myself_o but_o a_o mere_a babe_n in_o comparison_n of_o these_o man_n and_o so_o i_o judge_v of_o myself_o still_o but_o i_o remember_v a_o passage_n of_o mr._n hooker_n in_o his_o conference_n with_o forty_o minister_n say_v he_o we_o see_v thing_n fall_v cut_v in_o our_o church_n which_o put_v we_o upon_o further_a search_n so_o when_o i_o observe_v what_o use_n be_v make_v of_o this_o thesis_n in_o england_n among_o our_o sectary_n and_o what_o confusion_n be_v bring_v upon_o we_o for_o any_o number_n of_o sectary_n will_v elect_v one_o be_v he_o what_o he_o will_v but_o election_n give_v the_o essence_n ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n therefore_o may_v be_v leave_v out_o these_o practice_n have_v make_v i_o to_o search_v further_o into_o this_o opinion_n this_o be_v my_o great_a trouble_n that_o if_o i_o cast_v off_o the_o opinion_n i_o must_v go_v cross_a to_o such_o man_n who_o i_o do_v so_o much_o admire_v and_o reverence_v i_o be_o apt_a to_o think_v our_o holy_a man_n do_v in_o this_o as_o our_o first_o reformer_n do_v in_o other_o point_n luther_n let_v some_o word_n fall_v against_o the_o law_n which_o may_v have_v be_v spare_v so_o our_o divine_n in_o their_o definition_n of_o save_a faith_n in_o opposition_n to_o the_o papist_n so_o in_o this_o point_n the_o papist_n cry_v up_o ordination_n too_o high_a we_o now_o be_v run_v on_o the_o other_o side_n and_o cry_v up_o popular_a election_n as_o high_a and_o cry_v down_o ordination_n but_o sure_o a_o medium_n may_v have_v be_v find_v out_o which_o have_v come_v near_o to_o the_o rule_n with_o submission_n i_o speak_v it_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n lay_v down_o his_o thesis_n thus_o 66._o survey_v part_n 2._o pag._n 66._o election_n of_o the_o people_n right_o order_v by_o the_o rule_n of_o christ_n i_o wish_v he_o have_v set_v down_o this_o right_a order_n give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o officer_n etc._n etc._n but_o i_o doubt_v with_o honour_n to_o this_o choice_a saint_n he_o have_v not_o lay_v down_o his_o thesis_n so_o clear_a as_o dr._n ames_n who_o he_o quote_v after_o i_o presume_v he_o intend_v the_o acceptation_n of_o the_o person_n elect_v must_v concur_v nay_o i_o will_v affirm_v the_o acceptation_n be_v as_o essential_a as_o their_o election_n for_o what_o if_o this_o or_o that_o or_o four_o church_n more_o choose_v i_o will_v refuse_v they_o all_o if_o i_o please_v if_o election_n give_v the_o essential_o than_o it_o seem_v i_o must_v be_v a_o pastor_n to_o that_o people_n who_o elect_v i_o will_v i_o will_v i_o but_o this_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n will_v not_o own_o then_o i_o say_v election_n do_v not_o give_v the_o essentials_n second_o i_o say_v my_o own_o acceptation_n be_v as_o essential_a to_o my_o call_n as_o their_o election_n therefore_o dr._n ames_n lay_v it_o thus_o 32._o medul_a th._n l._n 1._o c._n 39_o s_o 32._o vocationis_fw-la essentia_fw-la est_fw-la in_o electione_n ecclesiae_fw-la &_o acceptatione_n electi_fw-la but_o this_o be_v not_o material_a for_o our_o sectary_n be_v forward_o enough_o to_o accept_v if_o any_o will_v elect_v in_o search_v out_o this_o truth_n i_o shall_v desire_v to_o set_v by_o all_o man_n and_o consult_v with_o the_o scripture_n i_o will_v first_o search_v what_o text_n we_o have_v for_o election_n than_o what_o for_o ordination_n and_o this_o i_o set_v down_o with_o myself_o that_o if_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n &_o the_o election_n so_o essential_a than_o the_o text_n for_o election_n be_v far_o more_o clear_a full_a and_o those_o for_o ordination_n more_o dark_a and_o rare_a for_o a_o adjunct_n the_o mean_a logician_n know_v be_v but_o little_a in_o comparison_n of_o a_o essential_a cause_n it_o do_v consentire_fw-la but_o modo_fw-la quodam_fw-la 2._o it_o suppose_v the_o subject_a complete_a in_o its_o essence_n before_o 3._o therefore_o potest_fw-la abesse_fw-la much_o may_v be_v speak_v this_o way_n the_o text_n i_o find_v for_o election_n be_v three_o neither_o do_v i_o observe_v our_o divine_n to_o quote_v any_o more_o 1._o the_o first_o be_v act._n 1.23_o where_o we_o have_v these_o thing_n observable_a as_o here_o be_v eleven_o apostle_n in_o this_o election_n but_o we_o allow_v those_o
the_o people_n be_v but_o a_o homogeneal_a body_n to_o reject_v i.e._n excommunicate_v a_o ossicer_n will_v cost_v more_o to_o prove_v have_v reverend_a mr._n hooker_n be_v alive_a and_o see_v what_o work_v church-member_n make_v here_o in_o england_n in_o very_a many_o church_n i_o think_v it_o will_v have_v cause_v he_o to_o bethink_v himself_o again_o of_o the_o people_n power_n something_o we_o hear_v of_o be_v do_v in_o a_o church_n not_o far_o from_o the_o place_n where_o he_o live_v it_o can_v be_v keep_v close_o the_o light_n of_o that_o fire_n shine_v into_o england_n for_o the_o people_n to_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o such_o a_o officer_n when_o there_o be_v no_o other_o officer_n to_o join_v with_o they_o to_o excommunicate_v he_o this_o be_v not_o deny_v for_o by_o their_o subjection_n to_o he_o they_o make_v he_o their_o officer_n that_o be_v some_o part_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n again_o but_o for_o excommunication_n mr._n cotton_n say_v it_o be_v one_o of_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n in_o the_o church_n 16_o key_n p._n 16_o and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v but_o by_o some_o ruler_n mr._n burrough_n say_v 51._o iren._n 51._o if_o the_o church_n be_v without_o officer_n they_o can_v do_v that_o which_o belong_v to_o officer_n to_o do_v they_o have_v no_o sacrament_n among_o they_o neither_o can_v they_o have_v any_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n exercise_v among_o they_o only_o brotherly_a admonition_n and_o withdraw_v from_o such_o as_o walk_v disorderly_a for_o their_o own_o preservation_n so_o then_o here_o be_v a_o way_n for_o the_o people_n to_o preserve_v themselves_o though_o they_o can_v excommunicate_v and_o those_o text_n which_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n bring_v matth._n 7.15_o and_o phil._n 3.2_o do_v not_o prove_v the_o church_n as_o a_o homogencal_a body_n to_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v their_o officer_n though_o they_o may_v prove_v withdraw_v as_o also_o rom._n 16.17_o may_v prove_v it_o for_o the_o reason_n of_o his_o consequence_n that_o staple_n rule_n ejusdem_fw-la est_fw-la instituere_fw-la destituere_fw-la this_o maxim_n be_v turn_v every_o way_n sometime_o to_o prove_v the_o people_n may_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n because_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la the_o people_n in_o election_n put_v forth_o no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n therefore_o they_o may_v put_v forth_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o excommunication_n that_o there_o be_v no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o election_n doctor_n ames_n acknowledge_v ovas_n rationales_fw-la possunt_fw-la eligere_fw-la sibi_fw-la pastorem_fw-la sicut_fw-la sponsa_fw-la eligit_fw-la sibisponsum_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la jurisdictionem_fw-la aut_fw-la gubernationem_fw-la sed_fw-la potius_fw-la per_fw-la subjectionem_fw-la in_o the_o answer_n before_o he_o affirm_v the_o same_o and_o elsewhere_o now_o what_o argue_v be_v this_o 13._o bellar._n enter_fw-mi to_o 2_o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s._n 19_o ib._n s._n 13._o to_o argue_v from_o subjection_n to_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o be_v no_o authority_n in_o election_n for_o electio_fw-la non_fw-la cogit_fw-la yet_o there_o be_v more_o power_n see_v in_o civil_a election_n than_o church-election_n as_o i_o shall_v touch_v afterward_o but_o in_o excommunication_n authority_n appear_v that_o also_o be_v deny_v that_o the_o people_n do_v instituere_fw-la in_o constitute_v chruche_n and_o ordinary_o what_o may_v be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n be_v no_o ordinary_a rule_n here_o the_o maxim_n be_v turn_v to_o prove_v that_o they_o may_v jnstituere_fw-la because_o they_o can_v destituere_fw-la but_o that_o will_v be_v deny_v unless_o it_o be_v in_o the_o sense_n before_o mention_v i._n e._n in_o what_o manner_n and_o how_o far_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la i.e._n by_o a_o subjection_n to_o be_v their_o officer_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o he_o and_o not_o own_v he_o to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o to_o excommunicate_v be_v more_o quest_n but_o suppose_v this_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o fraternity_n can_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n but_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n they_o may_v you_o say_v and_o so_o he_o cease_v to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o what_o be_v he_o now_o a_o officer_n to_o other_o church_n a._n if_o the_o withdraw_a their_o subjection_n and_o reject_v be_v irregular_a then_o though_o they_o make_v he_o not_o their_o officer_n de_fw-fr facto_fw-la which_o he_o be_v still_o the_o jure_fw-la yet_o his_o relation_n to_o the_o church-catholick_n visible_a do_v still_o hold_v and_o another_o church_n give_v he_o a_o call_v he_o have_v then_o power_n actu_fw-la secundâ—_n to_o administer_v the_o ordinance_n there_o for_o instance_n the_o separatist_n cast_v off_o he_o who_o before_o they_o choose_v for_o their_o officer_n suppose_v now_o unless_o he_o will_v renounce_v his_o ordination_n he_o be_v no_o minister_n do_v he_o therefore_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n how_o bufie_v some_o congregationall_a church_n be_v in_o withdraw_a from_o their_o officer_n it_o be_v too_o manifest_a and_o many_o go_v to_o the_o anabaptist_n some_o turn_v seeker_n andif_a all_o the_o member_n do_v thus_o do_v they_o now_o cease_v to_o be_v minister_n 2_o but_o if_o the_o withdraw_a be_v regular_a the_o cause_n just_a try_v etc._n etc._n then_o that_o which_o be_v sufficient_a ground_n for_o their_o withdraw_a from_o he_o be_v just_a cause_n why_o he_o shall_v be_v excommunicate_v be_v pertinacious_o scandalous_a or_o heretical_a as_o mr._n hooker_n suppose_v if_o then_o the_o case_n of_o a_o church_n be_v so_o as_o they_o be_v cast_v by_o providence_n into_o some_o remote_a place_n where_o be_v no_o church_n beside_o to_o combine_v with_o then_o as_o their_o election_n of_o he_o etc._n etc._n as_o i_o say_v before_o may_v supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n so_o this_o withdraw_a in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n may_v be_v analogum_fw-la to_o excommunication_n but_o say_v our_o divine_n if_o that_o church_n be_v in_o combination_n with_o other_o church_n as_o now_o under_o a_o classis_fw-la than_o the_o people_n shall_v not_o need_v to_o stay_v there_o in_o their_o withdraw_a but_o the_o case_n be_v judge_v and_o try_v by_o the_o classis_fw-la they_o as_o they_o ordain_v he_o when_o the_o people_n elect_v he_o the_o people_n consent_v do_v excommunicate_v he_o then_o as_o a_o man_n cast_v out_o of_o one_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o the_o catholic_n church_n visible_a so_o he_o who_o be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o officer_n to_o this_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o minister_n to_o the_o church-catholicke_a visible_a for_o the_o other_o argument_n 78_o burro_fw-la iren_n p._n 50_o nort._n resp_n ad_fw-la apoll._n p._n 76_o 78_o the_o people_n convey_v of_o power_n to_o a_o officer_n i_o know_v of_o no_o power_n the_o people_n convey_v only_o a_o designation_n of_o such_o a_o person_n to_o officiate_v in_o this_o or_o that_o society_n but_o their_o power_n they_o receive_v from_o christ_n immediate_o as_o our_o congregationall_a man_n affirm_v and_o hence_o they_o act_v in_o his_o name_n not_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n 5_o the_o last_o answer_n i_o will_v give_v to_o this_o proposal_n be_v this_o if_o you_o conceive_v this_o to_o be_v the_o only_a way_n of_o reformation_n than_o you_o must_v give_v the_o minister_n strong_a proof_n that_o you_o may_v ordain_v the_o minister_n will_v as_o much_o question_n your_o power_n to_o ordain_v as_o you_o question_v the_o bishop_n power_n so_o that_o we_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v you_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v this_o because_o you_o be_v so_o punctual_a you_o say_v for_o reform_v by_o the_o word_n but_o of_o this_o practice_n i_o much_o doubt_n 1_o my_o ground_n be_v because_o i_o find_v not_o one_o jota_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n obj._n though_o you_o do_v not_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n yet_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n there_o be_v numb_a 8.10_o a._n that_o place_n be_v the_o only_a resuge_n but_o 1_o it_o be_v common_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v no_o fair_a argue_v to_o go_v to_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o one_o thing_n we_o will_v have_v and_o when_o another_o come_v to_o the_o same_o polity_n for_o a_o argument_n for_o their_o turn_n now_o to_o debar_v they_o and_o tell_v they_o this_o be_v the_o old_a polity_n either_o leave_n out_o the_o jewish_a polity_n altogether_o or_o else_o give_v other_o leave_v to_o fetch_v argument_n from_o thence_o as_o well_o as_o yourselves_o 2_o if_o you_o will_v go_v to_o that_o polity_n why_o may_v i_o not_o as_o well_o prove_v that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v ordain_v as_o well_o as_o moses_n do_v aaron_n levit._n 8._o 3_o but_o in_o that_o church_n at_o that_o time_n there_o be_v officer_n aaron_z and_o his_o son_n thence_o if_o that_o be_v a_o rule_n it_o must_v follow_v
mean_v unless_o all_o the_o people_n consent_n i_o will_v not_o consent_v to_o the_o presbyterial_a minister_n in_o this_o that_o some_o few_o particular_a person_n guilty_a it_o may_v be_v themselves_o in_o some_o degree_n shall_v obstruct_v the_o sentence_n when_o the_o sound_a and_o major_a part_n of_o the_o church_n consent_v hear_v their_o own_o word_n in_o the_o great_a censure_n of_o excommunication_n 25_o lond._n vindic_n p._n 25_o we_o say_v that_o it_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v execute_v against_o the_o consent_n of_o that_o particular_a congregation_n to_o which_o the_o party_n to_o be_v excommunicate_v belong_v propos_fw-fr the_o five_o propos_fw-fr this_o be_v full_a the_o five_o proposal_n we_o will_v have_v the_o liberty_n to_o prophesy_v as_o 1_o cor._n 14_o etc._n etc._n a._n what_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o prophesy_v or_o prophet_n if_o you_o mean_v such_o prophet_n as_o we_o find_v in_o 1_o cor._n 14._o &_o 12._o etc._n etc._n you_o have_v two_o thing_n to_o prove_v 1_o that_o these_o be_v prophet_n in_o no_n office_n 2_o 5_o rutherf_n diu._n right_a presbyt_fw-la p._n 271._o gillesp_n miss_n c._n 5_o that_o the_o gift_n of_o prophesy_v there_o mention_v be_v ordinary_a and_o perpetual_a of_o the_o presbyterial_a divine_v you_o have_v two_o man_n there_o may_v be_v more_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v to_o grapple_v with_o that_o have_v strong_o debate_v this_o question_n and_o have_v answer_v all_o that_o be_v bring_v of_o the_o congregationall_a divine_n i_o find_v two_o man_n of_o no_o small_a worth_n who_o though_o in_o some_o extraordinary_a case_n in_o place_n where_o minister_n be_v not_o to_o be_v have_v if_o there_o be_v any_o able_a christian_a fit_n to_o speak_v they_o will_v grant_v such_o a_o liberty_n in_o a_o regular_a way_n but_o for_o the_o place_n you_o bring_v to_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n for_o private_a member_n to_o prophesy_v 20._o key_n 20._o they_o oppose_v this_o mr._n cotton_n say_v that_o place_n 1_o cor._n 125._o resp_n ad_fw-la apol._n p._n 125._o 14.31_o do_v not_o speak_v of_o ordinary_a private_a member_n but_o of_o man_n furnish_v with_o extraordinary_a gift_n he_o prove_v it_o afterward_o mr._n norton_n say_v prophecy_n concern_v which_o paul_n speak_v 1_o cor._n 14._o be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o any_o ordinary_a and_o perpetual_a gift_n whatever_o much_o less_o of_o a_o ordinary_a and_o perpetual_a gift_n of_o private_a brethren_n and_o that_o he_o prove_v i_o intend_v not_o to_o launch_v forth_o into_o this_o controversy_n for_o other_o have_v answer_v all_o those_o argument_n that_o be_v bring_v but_o let_v i_o say_v this_o when_o i_o consider_v these_o place_n 1_o cor._n 12.28_o god_n have_v set_v some_o in_o the_o church_n first_o apostle_n secondary_o prophet_n three_o teacher_n the_o 29._o verse_n be_v all_o apostle_n be_v all_o prophet_n be_v all_o teacher_n in_o the_o same_o order_n he_o reckon_v they_o so_o ephes_n 4.11_o he_o give_v some_o apostle_n some_o prophet_n etc._n etc._n so_o act._n 13._o 1._o there_o be_v in_o the_o church_n at_o antioch_n certain_a prophet_n and_o teacher_n as_o barnabas_n etc._n etc._n prophet_n have_v ever_o their_o place_n next_o apostles_n and_o be_v rank_v before_o teacher_n these_o text_n be_v to_o i_o strong_a proof_n that_o these_o prophet_n be_v no_o such_o private_a man_n as_o we_o nor_o their_o gift_n ordinary_a those_o that_o will_v be_v such_o must_v needs_o take_v place_n of_o their_o officer_n you_o be_v before_o they_o for_o these_o prophet_n be_v always_o place_v before_o ordinary_a officer_n that_o 1_o cor._n 13.2_o and_o 14._o v._o 22.30_o these_o place_n well_o consider_v will_v prove_v it_o be_v no_o ordinary_a gift_n but_o i_o will_v leave_v that_o way_n of_o argue_v and_o will_v argue_v against_o it_o from_o what_o i_o have_v observe_v about_o it_o 1._o it_o be_v needless_a what_o need_n be_v there_o of_o it_o i_o have_v observe_v that_o the_o ordinary_a time_n when_o these_o prophet_n go_v to_o work_v be_v after_o the_o minister_n have_v do_v preach_v what_o need_n be_v there_o of_o these_o man_n now_o to_o go_v to_o prophesy_v why_o do_v they_o not_o go_v home_o and_o meditate_v upon_o the_o sermon_n they_o have_v hear_v and_o call_v they_o over_o in_o their_o family_n but_o for_o sooth_n now_o the_o brethren_n must_v go_v to_o prophesy_v 2._o it_o be_v not_o only_o needless_a but_o it_o be_v dangerous_a satan_n have_v a_o design_n in_o it_o first_o to_o undermine_v the_o power_n of_o the_o word_n preach_v these_o person_n who_o have_v hear_v two_o sermon_n before_o run_v now_o to_o prophesy_v where_o be_v the_o word_n the_o people_n hear_v before_o they_o tortul_n have_v a_o observation_n of_o the_o heretic_n then_o nec_fw-la suis_fw-la praesidibus_fw-la reverentiam_fw-la noverunt_fw-la &_o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la schismata_fw-la apud_fw-la hereticos_fw-la fere_n non_fw-la sunt_fw-la quia_fw-la cum_fw-la sint_fw-la non_fw-la apparent_a schismata_fw-la praescrip_n adv_fw-mi haeâ—â—t_fw-la this_o be_v very_o true_a of_o these_o kind_n of_o people_n so_o far_o as_o i_o have_v observe_v among_o most_o of_o they_o this_o fine_a thing_n have_v put_v out_o that_o second_o his_o design_n be_v to_o blast_v the_o minister_n for_o i_o have_v observe_v minister_n nor_o their_o preach_n be_v in_o any_o request_n with_o this_o generation_n and_o the_o people_n be_v more_o take_v with_o their_o prophesy_a be_v a_o pretty_a new_a conceit_n than_o they_o be_v with_o their_o officer_n preach_v be_v it_o never_o so_o solid_a a_o near_a friend_n of_o i_o yet_o live_a a_o divine_a well_o know_v travel_v into_o germany_n come_v home_n in_o holland_n he_o go_v to_o hear_v mr._n ainsworth_n who_o preach_v a_o very_a strong_a sermon_n the_o person_n be_v able_a to_o judge_v while_o mr._n ainsworth_n be_v preach_v my_o friend_n observe_v the_o carriage_n of_o his_o member_n it_o be_v he_o think_v not_o become_v the_o ordinance_n i_o will_v not_o write_v all_o he_o tell_v i_o leave_v i_o shall_v be_v think_v to_o write_v out_o of_o malice_n very_o dull_a and_o dead_a that_o be_v the_o fair_a when_o mr._n ainsworth_n have_v do_v they_o now_o be_v to_o prophesy_v my_o friend_n say_v he_o observe_v that_o those_o who_o sit_v so_o dull_o and_o unreverent_o while_o their_o pastor_n be_v preach_v very_o excellent_o now_o their_o turn_n come_v to_o prophesy_v rise_v up_o and_o be_v so_o perk_n and_o lively_a that_o he_o can_v but_o note_v their_o carriage_n the_o word_n preach_v by_o officer_n though_o never_o so_o able_a do_v little_o good_a where_o this_o trade_n be_v drive_v 3._o i_o have_v observe_v order_n with_o peace_n and_o unity_n be_v seldom_o or_o never_o keep_v where_o these_o person_n flourish_v one_o think_v his_o part_n be_v as_o good_a as_o his_o brother_n this_o man_n he_o carp_v and_o find_v fault_n with_o his_o brother_n doctrine_n then_o come_v difference_n in_o and_o heartburning_n this_o man_n will_v be_v think_v to_o be_v the_o chief_a and_o most_o call_v upon_o to_o exercise_v another_o like_v not_o that_o jangle_v discord_n breach_n i_o have_v know_v to_o be_v the_o fruit_n of_o this_o good_a work_n 4._o i_o have_v rare_o know_v any_o of_o these_o person_n that_o be_v humble_a man_n the_o bone_n of_o pride_n and_o selfe-conceitednesse_a have_v stick_v out_o shameful_o in_o the_o chief_a of_o those_o who_o i_o have_v know_v what_o other_o be_v who_o i_o have_v not_o know_v i_o can_v tell_v but_o the_o most_o gracious_a savoury_a humble_a person_n that_o i_o have_v know_v though_o as_o able_a as_o those_o who_o be_v so_o forward_o yet_o they_o can_v be_v bring_v to_o this_o practice_n but_o content_v themselves_o in_o improve_n what_o talent_n they_o have_v otherwise_o 5._o i_o do_v not_o find_v private_a man_n to_o be_v so_o able_a as_o these_o suppose_v themselves_o to_o be_v some_o particular_a person_n christian_n of_o good_a experience_n and_o ripe_a understanding_n and_o some_o that_o be_v scholar_n may_v be_v able_a to_o speak_v to_o some_o point_n very_o well_o but_o most_o what_o our_o prophet_n deliver_v either_o vile_a error_n as_o i_o have_v know_v or_o else_o wrong_a the_o scripture_n very_o gross_o many_o time_n scripture_n this_o man_n do_v use_v to_o prophesy_v much_o this_o be_v commendable_a in_o he_o that_o he_o be_v adverse_a to_o other_o error_n i_o have_v know_v other_o christian_n beside_o he_o very_o eminent_a and_o sound_a yet_o give_v gross_a interpretation_n of_o plain_a scripture_n one_o of_o late_o be_v handle_v that_o text_n of_o cornelius_n act._n 10._o that_o he_o be_v a_o devout_a man_n pray_v give_v alm_n etc._n etc._n he_o cast_v this_o gloss_n upon_o it_o that_o cornelius_n be_v but_o as_o our_o devout_a papist_n that_o use_v also_o to_o pray_v and_o give_v alm_n this_o be_v strange_a that_o
he_o can_v see_v more_o holy_a and_o able_a than_o himself_o and_o hence_o he_o fear_v himself_o and_o conceive_v such_o man_n be_v so_o holy_a and_o near_a to_o god_n i_o fear_v he_o may_v reveal_v that_o to_o they_o which_o he_o conceal_v from_o i_o now_o then_o if_o you_o can_v bring_v we_o man_n who_o express_v all_o these_o and_o walk_v true_o by_o these_o rule_n you_o shall_v not_o need_v to_o go_v to_o the_o state_n to_o get_v a_o act_n for_o toleration_n of_o tender_a conscience_n for_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o church_n will_v be_v very_o tender_a of_o such_o god_n seldom_o leave_v these_o to_o drink_v in_o any_o vile_a error_n if_o for_o a_o time_n they_o be_v mislead_v he_o will_v discover_v his_o mind_n to_o they_o ere_o long_o i_o be_o assure_v but_o alas_o how_o far_o be_v our_o people_n from_o these_o thing_n i_o do_v not_o rehearse_v they_o over_o again_o but_o either_o let_v these_o be_v disprove_v to_o be_v no_o rule_n to_o judge_v by_o or_o if_o they_o be_v there_o be_v not_o ten_o as_o i_o say_v of_o such_o scarce_o to_o be_v find_v in_o england_n who_o separate_v from_o the_o ministry_n and_o church_n and_o have_v betake_v themselves_o to_o their_o private_a house_n yea_o if_o we_o go_v to_o our_o congregationall_a church_n and_o examine_v these_o who_o plead_v for_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n we_o shall_v hardly_o find_v these_o rule_n observe_v the_o sum_n be_v you_o see_v if_o indeed_o you_o be_v right_o conscientious_a man_n and_o lead_v by_o a_o pure_a conscience_n in_o the_o point_n wherein_o you_o differ_v you_o shall_v have_v that_o liberty_n that_o christ_n will_v have_v allow_v you_o and_o none_o will_v domineer_v over_o your_o conscience_n i_o know_v of_o nothing_o more_o can_v be_v allege_v but_o i_o think_v i_o have_v take_v in_o all_o that_o be_v bring_v against_o the_o ministry_n and_o church_n it_o may_v be_v some_o will_v be_v apt_a to_o cast_v in_o this_o that_o the_o minister_n be_v no_o friend_n to_o the_o state_n ergo_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o shall_v not_o stay_v to_o give_v any_o answer_n to_o this_o more_o than_o thus_o 1_o the_o separatist_n be_v before_o this_o government_n be_v erect_v to_o be_v sure_o the_o leaven_n of_o all_o be_v lay_v if_o not_o all_o actual_o separate_v 2_o where_o there_o be_v minister_n who_o be_v friend_n to_o the_o state_n it_o be_v all_o one_o for_o they_o separate_v for_o all_o that_o 3_o matter_n of_o state_n differ_v from_o the_o church_n matter_n and_o they_o be_v also_o very_o intricate_a and_o dark_a especial_o as_o some_o conceive_v the_o covenant_n and_o protestation_n have_v be_v take_v before_o therefore_o in_o intricate_a thing_n more_o time_n shall_v have_v be_v give_v till_o you_o have_v see_v god_n tie_v a_o knot_n upon_o thing_n 4_o i_o know_v that_o many_o minister_n have_v not_o hang_v off_o so_o from_o the_o state_n but_o that_o they_o see_v such_o separatist_n to_o be_v wink_v at_o they_o think_v too_o much_o obj._n but_o you_o will_v say_v grant_v all_o this_o that_o their_o ground_n be_v insufficient_a why_o can_v you_o go_v on_o in_o the_o work_n of_o reformation_n set_v up_o discipline_n etc._n etc._n and_o let_v these_o alone_a how_o do_v these_o hinder_v your_o work_n from_o go_v on_o comfortable_o ans_fw-fr if_o their_o ground_n be_v insufficient_a schism_n schism_n be_v esteem_v a_o great_a evil_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n those_o little_a matter_n in_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n not_o comparable_a to_o we_o how_o do_v the_o apostle_n speak_v against_o they_o so_o in_o the_o age_n after_o as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o august_n contra_fw-la permeni_n etc._n etc._n irenae_n say_v nulla_fw-la ab_fw-la eye_n tanta_fw-la fieri_fw-la potest_fw-la correptio_fw-la quanta_fw-la est_fw-la schismitis_fw-la pernicies_fw-la l._n 4._o c._n 26._o so_o our_o divine_n of_o late_a against_o the_o papist_n to_o prove_v they_o be_v not_o guilty_a of_o schism_n have_v labour_v strong_o but_o out_v do_v but_o fancy_n ground_n and_o make_v a_o tush_o at_o schism_n then_o why_o do_v they_o not_o come_v back_o again_o to_o the_o church_n from_o which_o they_o have_v depart_v but_o before_o i_o give_v the_o answer_n let_v these_o thing_n be_v observe_v 1_o few_o of_o these_o who_o have_v any_o true_a good_a in_o they_o but_o must_v and_o have_v acknowledge_v they_o have_v receive_v it_o from_o the_o minister_n yea_o in_o those_o time_n when_o there_o be_v much_o more_o corruption_n in_o the_o church_n then_o now_o 2_o since_o they_o have_v leave_v their_o minister_n they_o have_v get_v nothing_o many_o lose_v the_o savour_n once_o they_o have_v and_o some_o their_o comfort_n that_o be_v true_a and_o some_o of_o these_o i_o know_v have_v come_v home_o again_o general_o they_o run_v out_o of_o one_o error_n into_o another_o that_o be_v their_o thrive_a 3_o i_o never_o hear_v of_o one_o true_a convert_n that_o be_v ever_o bring_v home_o to_o god_n among_o they_o all_o indeed_o the_o principle_n they_o maintain_v will_v not_o stand_v with_o sound_a conversion_n for_o no_o law_n must_v be_v to_o awaken_v man_n and_o show_v they_o their_o vile_a condition_n natural_o work_n of_o faith_n be_v easy_a teach_v no_o duty_n but_o all_o christ_n as_o if_o man_n can_v true_o teach_v christ_n and_o no_o duty_n these_o thing_n speak_v enough_o against_o they_o but_o i_o answer_v further_o if_o the_o classical_a and_o congregationall_a man_n will_v but_o join_v together_o as_o they_o may_v if_o they_o will_v and_o set_v upon_o that_o work_n they_o may_v do_v something_o notwithstanding_o these_o person_n but_o yet_o they_o can_v comfortable_o hold_v so_o long_o as_o these_o be_v tolerate_v quest_n why_o what_o harm_n have_v these_o do_v or_o will_v they_o do_v ans_fw-fr i_o shall_v tell_v you_o under_o several_a particular_n 1_o they_o have_v much_o weaken_v the_o hand_n of_o the_o ministry_n in_o the_o work_n they_o be_v once_o the_o joy_n of_o their_o minister_n their_o crown_n and_o have_v they_o hold_v close_o to_o they_o still_o hold_v up_o their_o old_a principle_n and_o walk_v reverent_o they_o have_v very_o much_o comfort_v their_o heart_n and_o strengthen_v their_o hand_n now_o they_o come_v to_o the_o work_n of_o reformation_n they_o can_v in_o time_n of_o persecution_n when_o ceremony_n and_o such_o trash_n abound_v cleave_v to_o they_o and_o to_o those_o who_o be_v silence_v they_o be_v a_o comfort_n but_o now_o those_o who_o shall_v have_v join_v with_o their_o minister_n and_o carry_v on_o the_o work_n with_o joint_a prayer_n they_o be_v go_v cyprian_n compare_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n 11.30_o de_fw-fr unitâ_fw-la eccles_n 1_o king_n 11.30_o to_o christ_n garment_n which_o have_v no_o seam_n nor_o be_v divide_v schism_n he_o compare_v to_o the_o garment_n which_o abijah_n rend_v in_o twelve_o piece_n that_o be_v not_o good_a for_o salomon_n house_n how_o do_v it_o weaken_v the_o nation_n thus_o have_v these_o rending_n weaken_v our_o church_n exceed_o vis_fw-fr unita_fw-la fortior_fw-la 2_o they_o be_v now_o turn_v the_o great_a persecutor_n the_o minister_n have_v for_o tongue_n persecution_n it_o be_v wheel_v about_o and_o reside_v in_o this_o generation_n puritan_n precisian_n be_v the_o old_a term_n but_o now_o the_o term_n be_v baals-priest_n anti-christians_a priest_n and_o blackcoat_n be_v the_o sober_a term_n beside_o other_o jeer_n and_o scoff_n nay_o yet_o worse_o many_o of_o these_o will_v have_v the_o minister_n utter_o root_v up_o we_o hear_v of_o a_o petition_n draw_v up_o by_o some_o of_o they_o to_o be_v present_v to_o the_o house_n for_o that_o end_n they_o have_v threaten_v we_o what_o they_o will_v do_v and_o i_o doubt_v not_o if_o the_o state_n will_v give_v they_o their_o will_n this_o shall_v be_v their_o first_o vote_n down_o with_o the_o ministry_n so_o that_o all_o the_o old_a persecutor_n be_v not_o comparable_a to_o these_o they_o will_v have_v some_o down_o but_o honour_v the_o call_n these_o will_v cut_v down_o all_o 3_o they_o be_v the_o nursery_n of_o all_o error_n and_o heresy_n where_o be_v there_o one_o society_n that_o be_v not_o taint_v who_o can_v tell_v how_o gross_a they_o be_v tho_o we_o know_v many_o gross_a enough_o for_o they_o meet_v in_o private_a house_n who_o can_v tell_v what_o they_o vent_v there_o but_o if_o they_o get_v into_o pulpit_n than_o they_o will_v vent_v something_o and_o thence_o we_o may_v guess_v of_o the_o rest_n some_o of_o they_o have_v speak_v a_o against_o the_o scripture_n yet_o some_o again_o will_v have_v the_o apocrypha_fw-la to_o be_v canonical_a as_o a_o company_n of_o anabaptist_n spend_v the_o afternoon_n of_o a_o lord_n day_n to_o prove_v the_o apocrypha_fw-la to_o be_v so_o the_o london_n minister_n have_v set_v down_o some_o bad_a enough_o in_o their_o
any_o power_n invest_v with_o authority_n but_o if_o they_o enjoin_v a_o thing_n to_o be_v do_v and_o it_o be_v refuse_v that_o authority_n will_v reach_v further_o authoritas_fw-la cogit_fw-la as_o be_v the_o kind_n of_o the_o authority_n civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a bless_a burrough_n in_o answer_v to_o that_o which_o some_o will_v have_v 44._o iren._n p._n 44._o scil_n that_o a_o synod_n may_v formal_o excommunicate_v because_o by_o excommunication_n they_o i.e._n heretical_a church_n be_v put_v out_o of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n into_o the_o kingdom_n of_o satan_n and_o this_o will_v terrify_v say_v consider_v whether_o this_o be_v not_o do_v before_o and_o that_o with_o a_o authority_n of_o christ_n by_o those_o former_a six_o thing_n mention_v in_o the_o page_n before_o for_o heretical_a congregation_n or_o person_n be_v judge_v and_o declare_v in_o a_o solemn_a ordinance_n by_o the_o officer_n of_o christ_n gather_v together_o in_o his_o name_n to_o be_v such_o as_o have_v no_o right_n to_o any_o church_n ordinance_n to_o have_v no_o communion_n with_o any_o of_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n now_o if_o this_o judgement_n be_v right_a be_v not_o such_o person_n or_o congregation_n put_v out_o of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n and_o put_v under_o the_o power_n of_o satan_n consequent_o certain_o this_o can_v be_v a_o ground_n of_o such_o difference_n shall_v non_fw-la and_o exit_fw-la make_v such_o a_o stir_n when_o non_n be_v as_o bad_a as_o exit_fw-la i_o shall_v judge_v myself_o i_o be_o sure_a to_o be_v in_o as_o bad_a a_o case_n by_o the_o one_o as_o the_o other_o though_o for_o my_o part_n this_o notion_n of_o catholike-visible-church_n have_v make_v i_o ready_a to_o yield_v to_o synod_n juridical_a power_n i_o can_v i_o say_v yield_v it_o and_o yet_o not_o differ_v from_o these_o reverend_a divine_n if_o they_o follow_v home_o their_o non-communion_n close_o now_o if_o you_o say_v what_o do_v this_o help_n against_o heretical_a congregation_n though_o you_o have_v proceed_v to_o non-communion_n they_o regard_v it_o not_o but_o still_o go_v on_o in_o their_o heresy_n and_o leaven_n other_o to_o that_o they_o will_v say_v what_o do_v they_o care_v for_o your_o excommunication_n if_o all_o the_o heretic_n in_o england_n be_v excommunicate_v they_o will_v not_o care_v but_o go_v on_o still_o indeed_o our_o new_a england_n divine_n will_v teach_v we_o a_o way_n how_o to_o help_v it_o viz._n if_o a_o synod_n have_v declare_v against_o a_o heretical_a congregation_n be_v pertinacious_a and_o so_o have_v proceed_v to_o non-communion_n they_o will_v call_v in_o the_o civil_a power_n to_o help_v and_o so_o they_o have_v a_o way_n to_o help_v by_o their_o non-communion_n and_o this_o must_v be_v the_o help_n of_o they_o though_o they_o be_v excommunicate_v this_o mr._n norton_n intimate_v 58._o resp_n ad_fw-la apol._n 148_o key_n 50_o iren._n c._n 4._o mr._n marshal_n relate_v that_o zuinglius_fw-la in_o a_o public_a dispute_n do_v so_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n that_o they_o appear_v to_o the_o magistrate_n unreasonable_o obstinate_a be_v banish_v d_o the_o city_n defen_n ag_n tomb._n 58._o ecclesiae_fw-la appellant_n magistratum_fw-la in_o causis_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la non_fw-la ad_fw-la doctrinam_fw-la declarandam_fw-la vel_fw-la disciplinam_fw-la exequendam_fw-la sed_fw-la ad_fw-la doctrinam_fw-la a_o cencilio_fw-la declaratam_fw-la vel_fw-la disciplinam_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la applicatam_fw-la sanctione_n civili_fw-la confirmandam_fw-la the_o dury_n which_o mr._n cotton_n show_v to_o lie_v upon_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n infer_v as_o much_o as_o also_o mr._n burrough_n and_o thus_o it_o be_v in_o new_a england_n when_o the_o synod_n at_o which_o the_o civil_a power_n be_v present_a as_o to_o hear_v so_o to_o keep_v civil_a order_n have_v consute_v and_o condemn_v the_o error_n and_o heresy_n and_o so_o be_v break_v up_o than_o a_o general_n court_n be_v call_v which_o soon_o suppress_v those_o heresy_n and_o bring_v the_o church_n to_o peace_n again_o if_o the_o civil_a power_n will_v do_v as_o much_o here_o we_o shall_v soon_o see_v our_o church_n in_o better_a order_n what_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v do_v in_o this_o ease_n before_o i_o need_v not_o mention_v book_n be_v full_a it_o be_v true_a the_o church_n be_v when_o there_o be_v no_o civil_a power_n to_o defend_v they_o but_o oppose_v they_o but_o we_o can_v find_v how_o many_o heresy_n and_o schism_n they_o be_v then_o trouble_v with_o shall_v the_o church_n be_v in_o no_o better_a case_n under_o a_o christian_a civil_a power_n nursing-fathers_n then_o at_o that_o time_n 6_o do_v the_o classical_a godly_a man_n look_v upon_o their_o congregation_n have_v visible_a saint_n among_o they_o to_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n so_o do_v the_o congregationall_a man_n judge_v they_o also_o i_o give_v instance_n before_o 7_o will_v then_o the_o classical_a brethren_n have_v their_o member_n be_v such_o as_o have_v right_a to_o the_o ordinance_n to_o partake_v with_o congregational_a church_n in_o the_o lord_n supper_n to_o show_v their_o communion_n certain_o so_o they_o ought_v but_o why_o congegationall_a man_n do_v refuse_v godly_a man_n member_n of_o classical_a church_n not_o admit_v they_o to_o the_o lord_n supper_n when_o they_o have_v desire_v it_o be_v very_o strange_a to_o i_o i_o wish_v our_o reverend_a brethren_n will_v give_v we_o solid_a ground_n for_o this_o practice_n for_o it_o give_v offence_n and_o that_o just_o this_fw-mi just_o preface_n to_o survey_v ch_n this_fw-mi mr._n hooker_n and_o 266._o and_o iren._n p._n 266._o mr._n burrough_n have_v both_o say_v they_o shall_v be_v admit_v shall_v a_o church_n be_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n where_o doctrine_n and_o worship_n be_v pure_a also_o this_o person_n a_o member_n of_o it_o a_o visible_a saint_n it_o may_v be_v a_o real_a saint_n and_o shall_v he_o be_v deny_v communion_n 8_o for_o class_n this_fw-mi pref._n surv_v ch_n this_fw-mi the_o congregationall_a man_n say_v consociation_n of_o church_n be_v not_o only_o lawful_a but_o in_o some_o case_n necessary_a so_o mr._n hooker_n mr._n cotton_n speak_v full_o to_o this_o key_n p._n 54_o 55._o weighty_a matter_n such_o as_o election_n and_o ordination_n of_o elder_n excommunication_n of_o a_o elder_a or_o any_o person_n of_o public_a note_n the_o translation_n of_o a_o elder_a from_o one_o church_n to_o another_o it_o be_v a_o holy_a ordinance_n to_o proceed_v with_o common_a consultation_n and_o consent_n i_o suppose_v thus_o much_o may_v have_v be_v obtain_v of_o the_o classical-brethren_n that_o though_o in_o case_n of_o weight_n as_o excommunication_n they_o will_v not_o have_v such_o a_o ordinance_n carry_v on_o by_o one_o minister_n but_o have_v the_o thing_n serious_o examine_v first_o and_o debate_v in_o a_o classis_fw-la yet_o when_o the_o thing_n have_v be_v conclude_v upon_o they_o will_v leave_v the_o execution_n of_o the_o sentence_n to_o the_o officer_n or_o officer_n of_o the_o church_n where_o the_o case_n lie_v if_o so_o much_o may_v be_v obtain_v i_o shall_v be_v very_o far_o from_o oppose_v a_o classis_fw-la i_o will_v not_o willing_o live_v without_o one_o i_o know_v of_o no_o other_o material_a point_n of_o difference_n as_o for_o the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n that_o be_v but_o a_o notion_n though_o its_o true_a much_o practice_n depend_v upon_o it_o yet_o i_o find_v not_o that_o our_o divine_n here_o will_v have_v the_o fraternity_n to_o be_v the_o first_o subject_n by_o their_o own_n of_o mr._n cotton_n his_o book_n of_o the_o key_n for_o mr._n cotton_n make_v a_o church_n organise_v to_o be_v the_o first_o subject_n and_o not_o the_o fraternity_n as_o be_v apparent_a in_o divers_a place_n of_o that_o book_n the_o sum_n be_v i_o wonder_v at_o our_o differnce_n well_o may_v that_o worthy_a divine_a say_v in_o his_o letter_n to_o i_o from_o new_a england_n it_o be_v the_o wonderment_n of_o this_o side_n of_o the_o world_n that_o you_o that_o be_v godly_a and_o may_v agree_v yet_o will_v not_o sure_o the_o cause_n lie_v more_o in_o the_o will_n than_o any_o thing_n else_o give_v i_o leave_v therefore_o i_o pray_v to_o make_v my_o humble_a request_n to_o our_o reverend_a divine_n the_o congregational-man_n that_o they_o will_v please_v to_o close_v in_o with_o the_o classical_a brethren_n and_o not_o suffer_v these_o groundless_a difference_n to_o trouble_v the_o church_n any_o long_o if_o you_o ask_v why_o do_v you_o make_v your_o request_n to_o we_o be_v we_o the_o cause_n why_o they_o be_v not_o beal_v i_o can_v think_v the_o cause_n lie_v only_o in_o the_o minister_n nay_o i_o have_v hear_v long_o since_o there_o have_v be_v a_o agreement_n among_o the_o minister_n have_v not_o some_o other_o that_o live_v by_o division_n break_v it_o but_o whether_o all_o minister_n be_v of_o the_o
same_o mind_n i_o know_v not_o nay_o i_o have_v observe_v the_o spirit_n of_o some_o congregational-minister_n carry_v with_o more_o eagerness_n against_o the_o classical-brethren_n then_o è_fw-la conuerso_fw-la and_o i_o be_o sure_a if_o there_o be_v any_o blame_n among_o the_o minister_n it_o be_v charge_v most_o upon_o the_o congregational-man_n whether_o just_o or_o no_o it_o concern_v you_o to_o clear_v yourselves_o beside_o at_o this_o time_n the_o civil_a power_n most_o smile_n upon_o you_o and_o now_o it_o be_v a_o good_a time_n to_o show_v you_o seek_v the_o peace_n and_o flourish_a of_o all_o church_n by_o join_v with_o your_o fellow-brethren_n and_o not_o to_o be_v content_a though_o your_o interest_n be_v safe_a unless_o the_o whole_a may_v have_v comfort_n as_o well_o as_o yourselves_o for_o you_o can_v but_o judge_v that_o there_o be_v more_o true_a visible_a church_n than_o those_o which_o be_v call_v independent_a church_n and_o that_o there_o be_v other_o that_o be_v true_a minister_n beside_o the_o independent_a minister_n why_o then_o shall_v not_o the_o comfort_n of_o these_o church_n and_o minister_n be_v seek_v which_o can_v be_v unless_o yourselves_o be_v please_v to_o declare_v against_o these_o error_n and_o schism_n of_o the_o time_n and_o fall_v in_o with_o these_o minister_n to_o carry_v on_o the_o work_n of_o christ_n together_o let_v i_o i_o beseech_v you_o present_a to_o your_o view_n a_o few_o thing_n to_o be_v consider_v first_o the_o classical_a man_n have_v bid_v very_o fair_a for_o peace_n and_o agreement_n with_o you_o hear_v their_o word_n 121._o lond._n in_o vind._n p._n 120._o 121._o we_o do_v here_o manifest_v our_o willingness_n te_fw-la accommodate_v with_o you_o according_a to_o the_o word_n in_o a_o way_n of_o union_n and_o such_o of_o we_o as_o be_v minister_n to_o preach_v up_o and_o to_o practice_v a_o mutual_a forbearance_n and_o toleration_n in_o all_o thing_n that_o may_v consist_v with_o the_o sundamental_n of_o religion_n what_o need_v then_o any_o other_o toleration_n with_o the_o power_n of_o godliness_n and_o with_o that_o peace_n which_o christ_n have_v establish_v in_o his_o church_n but_o to_o make_v rupture_n in_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o divide_v church_n from_o church_n etc._n etc._n there_o be_v no_o warrant_n for_o this_o out_o of_o the_o word_n the_o page_n before_o this_o they_o offer_v as_o much_o as_o this_o and_o speak_v so_o christianly_o and_o ingenuous_o that_o it_o must_v needs_o move_v any_o christian_a heart_n that_o love_v the_o peace_n and_o prosperity_n of_o the_o church_n to_o meet_v they_o half_a way_n and_o not_o suffer_v any_o difference_n more_o to_o appear_v as_o for_o that_o exception_n they_o make_v the_o rupture_n of_o church_n i_o think_v it_o to_o be_v a_o very_a just_a exception_n that_o golden_a rule_n have_v place_n here_o ut_fw-la tibi_fw-la sic_fw-la aliis_fw-la will_v any_o of_o we_o be_v content_a to_o have_v other_o minister_n take_v from_o we_o the_o best_a of_o our_o people_n that_o have_v choose_v we_o before_o and_o own_v we_o for_o their_o officer_n say_v what_o you_o please_v you_o be_v man_n and_o i_o know_v it_o will_v be_v a_o strong_a temptation_n when_o as_o for_o want_v of_o these_o also_o their_o hand_n be_v weaken_v in_o the_o carry_v on_o of_o reformation_n in_o their_o church_n if_o you_o take_v away_o the_o best_a who_o be_v the_o joy_n of_o a_o minister_n take_v away_o the_o worst_a also_o if_o you_o live_v near_o a_o place_n where_o there_o be_v no_o minister_n and_o take_v in_o such_o christian_n to_o you_o as_o the_o place_n afford_v and_o return_v they_o when_o the_o place_n be_v furnish_v or_o if_o there_o be_v a_o minister_n and_o but_o few_o christian_n so_o that_o he_o can_v give_v the_o lord_n supper_n with_o comfort_n if_o he_o and_o his_o people_n will_v join_v with_o you_o they_o may_v none_o oppose_v this_o but_o when_o a_o godly_a minister_n have_v visible_a saint_n sufficient_a in_o his_o parish_n to_o have_v these_o take_v from_o he_o be_v such_o a_o thing_n which_o i_o will_v not_o have_v offer_v to_o i_o therefore_o i_o will_v not_o offer_v the_o same_o to_o another_o i_o know_v where_o the_o pinch_n lie_v on_o the_o minister_n part_n our_o maintenance_n arise_v from_o the_o member_n etc._n etc._n but_o for_o this_o the_o state_n have_v provide_v a_o answer_n and_o certain_o it_o be_v a_o great_a mercy_n reform_v you_o in_o the_o place_n where_o you_o live_v take_v none_o but_o scriputre-visible-saint_n to_o the_o sacrament_n catechise_v and_o do_v what_o you_o can_v to_o reform_v the_o rest_n the_o state_n have_v provide_v for_o your_o maintenance_n none_o shall_v keep_v it_o from_o you_o as_o well_o as_o the_o word_n give_v it_o you_o gal._n 6._o let_v he_o that_o be_v teach_v in_o the_o word_n communicate_v to_o he_o that_o teach_v in_o all_o good_a thing_n christ_n send_v paul_n not_o to_o baptize_v but_o to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n 1_o cor._n 1.17_o preach_v be_v the_o spend_a work_n and_o the_o chief_a of_o this_o all_o the_o parish_n be_v partaker_n i_o be_o ready_a to_o dispense_v the_o seal_n to_o all_o visible_a saint_n therefore_o i_o know_v no_o scruple_n why_o i_o shall_v not_o receive_v from_o all_o since_o all_o receive_v from_o i_o o_o but_o your_o member_n will_v not_o be_v content_a with_o this_o i_o know_v not_o but_o your_o member_n may_v find_v god_n in_o a_o godly_a reform_a classical_a church_n we_o see_v the_o difference_n be_v very_o small_a but_o suppose_v the_o worst_a let_v then_o your_o member_n remove_v into_o the_o parish_n where_o you_o live_v and_o this_o be_v no_o offence_n to_o any_o if_o they_o say_v it_o will_v something_o hinder_v their_o estate_n mr._n burrough_n will_v tell_v they_o then_o they_o love_v their_o body_n better_a than_o their_o soul_n 225._o expos_fw-la hos_fw-la c._n 2._o v._n 1.2_o p._n 225._o if_o they_o look_v upon_o thing_n very_o much_o concern_v their_o soul_n and_o will_v not_o buy_v they_o with_o some_o abatement_n of_o their_o profit_n can_v this_o have_v be_v once_o enjoy_v new_a england_n sufferer_n have_v not_o be_v there_o now_o though_o parish_n be_v not_o church_n yet_o minister_n care_n must_v be_v bound_v some_o where_n i_o presume_v you_o be_v willing_a to_o close_v so_o that_o you_o may_v not_o sin_v i_o beseech_v you_o first_o what_o sin_n be_v it_o to_o let_v a_o godly_a classical_a man_n enjoy_v his_o own_o member_n second_o what_o sin_n be_v it_o to_o admit_v a_o visible_a saint_n and_o member_n of_o a_o classical_a church_n to_o communion_n with_o you_o three_o what_o sin_n be_v it_o to_o declare_v against_o the_o error_n and_o schism_n of_o the_o time_n you_o see_v it_o be_v the_o thought_n of_o the_o new_a england_n divine_v that_o through_o our_o too_o much_o connivance_n at_o these_o this_o inundation_n of_o error_n be_v like_a to_o destroy_v all_o if_o these_o three_o be_v but_o yield_v i_o believe_v you_o may_v live_v and_o enjoy_v your_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n and_o no_o man_n will_v trouble_v you_o 2._o a_o second_o consideration_n be_v this_o you_o see_v those_o who_o call_v for_o agreement_n they_o be_v no_o babe_n they_o be_v man_n holy_a learned_a excellent_o gift_v and_o the_o argument_n they_o give_v for_o their_o classical_a form_n of_o government_n be_v not_o slight_a but_o such_o as_o deserve_v strong_a head_n to_o answer_v it_o may_v be_v my_o shallowness_n but_o true_o i_o can_v yet_o see_v some_o thing_n they_o plead_v for_o to_o be_v clear_o answer_v as_o their_o argument_n for_o the_o catholick-church-visible_a their_o argument_n for_o their_o presbyterial_a church_n from_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n corinth_n etc._n etc._n yet_o i_o have_v read_v the_o answer_n with_o a_o kind_n of_o prejudice_n against_o the_o classical_a way_n be_v before_o engage_v in_o the_o congregational-way_n and_o usual_o than_o man_n be_v apt_a to_o make_v a_o little_a serve_v the_o turn_n but_o i_o can_v yet_o be_v satisfy_v and_o that_o such_o a_o church_n as_o be_v in_o this_o small_a village_n where_o i_o live_v shall_v have_v equal_a power_n with_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n and_o be_v exempt_v from_o all_o other_o power_n though_o which_o god_n forbid_v we_o shall_v walk_v scandalous_o be_v a_o piece_n of_o divinity_n that_o i_o can_v yet_o believe_v there_o seem_v to_o be_v something_o in_o that_o which_o learned_a mr._n hudson_n hint_v from_o 1_o cor._n 14.34_o let_v your_o woman_n keep_v silence_n in_o the_o church_n here_o be_v church_n in_o corinth_n he_o do_v not_o say_v let_v woman_n but_o let_v your_o woman_n that_o indeed_o which_o be_v a_o rule_n for_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n be_v a_o rule_n for_o all_o church_n those_o congregation_n be_v call_v church_n yet_o one_o combine_v church_n