saith it is Christs ordinance that an holie assemblie should iudge in such cases Howe will this agree with the office of your Arch-Bishop Further as a maÌ„ ignorant in the scriptures he would haue the people excluded in their Synods The holye Ghost setteth before vs another order Acts. 15. And for a christian trial of our cause wee haue euerie way sought it by supplication and all maner of wayes but could neuer obteine it But your whole broode haue not only refused it and shewed al exquisit tyrannie vpon our bodies so farr as they had powre by close emprisonment rending vs from our trades and families and al ordinary meanes of liuehood but set their Priestes eueriwhere to crye out in their pulpits gyuing out lyes and sclanders openly secretly in Articles in printed Bookes in priuate complaints and false suggestions wherin M r. Giffard hath not bene behinde yet neuer vouchsafed vs free conference nor haue or can conuince vs of crime or error maintayned by vs. In whom then is this furor dolus tumultus now found but in these godlesse Priestes that caÌ„not abide the light because their workes are euill HE procedeth now to shew what tryalls were granted the Donatists before the Emperour and by his apointment Wherein there wil be found litle consimilitude betwene our estate and theirs for these AntichristaÌ„ Bishops vsurpe such powre as the magistrate may not cal their actions into question shutting vp the benefit of the common lawe against vs suffring no Iurie to passe vpon those they murther in pryson nor no bayle for anie they commyt I meruâ—l you could set forth these â—rialls alowed the Donatistes without blushiÌ„ng and make such hauock amongst Gods children now without anie trial granted them Further it is rehersed how these men the Numidian Bishopps and their companie condemned all Churches through the worlde as wrapped together in the guyltines of those Churches of Africa al polluted al vncleane al fallen from the Couenant of God through such as had committed sacriledge and were not separated They said there was no true ministerie no true Church no true sacramentes To which wee answere that wee are not to pleade the Donatistes cause but setting their persons and causes aside I trust it will be granted me that the defâ—ctioÌ„ Apostasie vnder Antichrist was generall in which defection you wil stil remaine in obstinate confusioÌ„ not only retayning that ministerie worship lawes offices c but reiecting Christs prescribed and for euer commanded in his Testament which your ministerie lawes worship gouernmeÌ„t we are able to prone false Antichristian So that there is no consimilitude in the Donatistes separation and ours in this poinct their matter being about sinnes coÌ„mitted in the Church where there was lawful office worship gouernment as they did not denie and our cause being about the not hauing of a Church gathered vnto CHRIST from the Apostasie from all them that remaine vnder that Apostatical ministerie gouernment and worship and in that confusion we haue warrant to separate Reuel 18. 3. 4. Now to the poinct These Numidian Bishops taught that so manie as would saue their soules must separate themselues M r. GIFFARD wil graunt I doubt not that if there were no true Church true ministerie nor no true sacramentes it was tyme to come out from amongst them and haue no coÌ„munion with the tables of Diuells as the Apostle reasoneth 1 Corint 10. If the Donatistes separated from the true Church we do not so but we separate according to Gods coÌ„mandement from the false Church false ministerie worship and Sacramentes Proue your Church therfore a true Church or our separation is iust and holy and the only way to saluation In the meane tyme let the Papist reason thus with you You separate from our Church therfore you are Schismaticks Donatistes Heretickes If M r. GIFFARD say no we hold you the true Church to haue the seales of the Couenant to hold many doctrines of faith to be the Temple of God then we may lawfully hold you still Daughters of that damnable harlot murderesse of the Saintes so often accursed in whose cupp of fornication you are druâ—ken If he say separation from the false Church is a commandement of God and that they haue made a kinde of separation then all are not Donatistes that make a separation but the cause must be considered from whome for which in what maner and to what we separate or ioyne Where he alledgeth that Augustine thought it an vnequall thing to condemne as they did at the first all the world for one mans sinne namely for the sinne of this Caecilianus and they therevpon tooke on hand to affirme that as the Church of Carthage and the Churches elswhere in Africa were fallen from God by the pollution of the sacriledge of Caecilianus and others so all other Churches in the world were destroyed by the like sacriledges committed in the dayes of persecution There is litle consimilitude betwene the Donaâ—â—stes and vs therein For we separated not at the first for one mans sinne neither do since condemne the Churches we know not but for the whole ministerie of CHRISTS Testament worship lawes and ordinances which you reiect deface and peruert standing subiect vnto administring in the Apostaticall orders and offices of Antichrist do wee separate But to answere your perticulars as you haue filled the printe with rayling lying and vnfruiâ—tfull and impertinent matters were but to trouble the Reader and maintaine strife You bring a storie of their comparison betwene Caecilianus Iudas-Iscariot whether should be greater sinner a repetition of Caluines Institutions histories out of Augustine Tertuâ—lan c which your labour as yttendeth but to a shadowe of defence of your rayling so I will leaue their writings and you to the iudgment seate of God where euerie one must answere for himself and breiflie proceed to your perticular accusations falsly fathered vpon vs most of them THus we see saith he that the Donatistes departed disorderly out of the Church not condemning yt for anie poincte of doctrine for therein they did not disagree Herein then we cannot be compared till you haue prooued your parish assemblies the true Church and we holde that you haue poysoned all the fountaines of sincere doctrine and peruert the whole Testament and turne away the practize thereof by your damnable false expositions yea that you teach not one poincte sincerely Againe where you say afterward that you will affirme the worship in the Churches from which the Donatistes separated as corrupt as yours and here say they agreed in all poinctes of doctrine we wonder what your make your worship to be some things indifferent as reading for prayer mens writings for scriptures homilies for interpretation but no doctrine conteined in your worship And where you affirme that the Donatistes cryed out all was polluted because such as reuolted from the faith in time of persecution returned and were againe recoâ—â—ed into the Church you know we hold
the law yet his office still retained but we hold that the Minister ought to repent his sinne before he administer and the Church to admonish him of his knowen sinne before they suffer him to administer and not coÌ„municat with him if he be obstinat If the Church neglect their dutie he and they transgresse yet do we not say that it is no Sacrament that he deliuereth or that his ministerie is disanulled But we must put Mr. Giffard in minde how far he is gone from our cause in this comparison We neuer disalowed their SacrameÌ„ts as being administred by a lawful Minister in a lawful office yet the man a sinner But of such counterfeites as haue neither lawfull office entrance c but stand enchanters in Antichristes kingdome so that these are not the personal sinnes of a Minister in the Church wherin Mr. Giff. wickednes appeareth to make the questioÌ„ of the mans person or his sinne when it is the ministery office entrance administation al which wee hold to be Antichristian and to haue nothing to do with the seales of Gods Couenant in this estate not here to speake of the altering of the institution in the maner of administring yt vvhich the Donatistes neuer either had cause or made question of as it seemeth And whether anie promise is made to the elementes abused in the false yea whether to the elementes or to the keeping of the lawes and ordinances in the true Church let Mr. Giffard make answere Further when we affirme the Sacramentes of the false Church to be no true seales of the Couenant because they are Idolatours and Idolatrous the Lordes ordinances prophaned and lawes wholly violated wee do not therby conclude it to bee no Baptisme concerning the outwarde washing for wee can put difference betwene a false and none a false Sacrament or counterfeit signe and none for the false Church is saide to haue her peace offringes And although wee holde them highly to tempt God to their owne condemnation if they repent not that wittingly prophane or of wilfull ignorance transgresse those high ordinances as in the false Church to be superstitious of the element where the lawe and Couenant is broken yet do wee not therevpon affirme wee neede anie reiterating of the outward signe as the Donatistes but hold this false signe nowe a true signe sufficient to vs concerning the outward washing Circumcision in the Apostasie of Israel which was without promise to the receiuers in that estate and nothing but sinne in yt yet stood for a sufficient outward cutting wheÌ„ anie of them returned to the Church and ate of the Passouer wherof it was not lawfull for any vncircumcised to eate how the signe might haue bene reiterated if need had so required we may see by that of y e Apostle 1 Cor. 7. for gathering againe their circumcisioÌ„ if it might be gathered againe then secondly cut Where Mr. Giffard then in stead of performing his comparison saith that the Donatistes in rebaptising did better of both because he that is not baptised ought to be baptised he bewrayeth his ignorance that cannot put difference betwene a false Sacrament and none a false signe and none The grossnes also he supposeth to haue bene in vs is found in himself that lest he should make the false and counterfeit washing in the false church to be none runneth to iustifie the Church ministerie sacramentes c at ROME and so must conclude himself of necessitie a Schismaticke or a popish Priest which he will And where he demandeth whether he that knoweth he was neuer baptised can be saued if he seek not to be baptised when he may haue yt We demande againe how euer true baptisme should be restored if the false signe of baptisme which was then without promise in the false Church should not now be sufficient concerning the outward signe To the Government IN the principle of principles that I say not the verie summe of all causes of our separation from these assemblies namely the gouernment which Mr. GIFFARD termeth discipline he can not finde any coÌ„similitude betwene the Donatistes and vs for the confesseth he hath not read that they did take anie exception against it in that tyme. Take your word discipline for al the meanes that CHRIST hath apointed by his lawes ministerie censures to keepe guyde gouerne his Church ioyntly and seuerally to be instructed in their duties and see what a dilemma you are come vnto this being graÌ„ted that herein ther is no agreement seeing the chief cause of our controuersie with you is for the rable of this Antichristian and pseâ—dohierarchie Courtes c which haue no place in the Church of God where CHRISTS officers offices lawes censures ought to gouerne and guyde his Church But here according to your accustomed maner you goe about to say there were faultes to be found in their gouernment then yea as well as in their worship c which you affirmed to be as corrupt as yours is now wherein if ante regard were to be had of your words you would not only make those Bishopps in as euill state as these that Church as yours now but haue cast into the fire al the platformes that your learned Reformistes haue pleaded for from that falsly so called Primatiue Church Well I haue told you the question is not whether they had the true gouernment or no whether in that gouernment there were corruptions defaultes or negligences but whether the Donatistes separated therfore or no they had the same offices officers lawes censures that the other so that you speak not only false in saying they might haue had as iust cause in this respect of separation as we but also bring the Argument to confound your self with your whole Church wherin you stand a Priest Thus you are separated from the Church of ROME but retaine still the same hierarchie worship gouernment that they vsed and haue as the Do. of the Churches from which they separated therfore you in this as in the rest of your Argumentes conclude your selues Donatistes Heretickes and Schismatickes from the Church of ROME But Mr. GIFFARD will denie that the Donatistes had as great cause to separate from those Churches froÌ„ which they separated as those English Priestes from their Graundfather the Pope for it was not so corrupted The same we answere to you for your gouernment how then shall we end this matter I take it thus that the Priestes of England despise the Popes person and yet keepe the same orders lawes officers offices that he erected So the Donatistes kept stil the orders of gouernment that the Churches they separated from Now if we can cleare our selues that we retaine not the same gouernment amongst vs that the Church doth we separat from which I thinke cannot be denyed then Mr. GIF hath in a chief principle put himself and this whole laud into the number of Donatistes The Argument is now this The Church of England separateth from the Church of
nations that were gathered togither by the false Prophet into battell against Christ his armie how he should smite the heatheÌ„ with the sharpe sword that issueth out of his mouth rule them with a rod of yron and tread theÌ„ in the wine-presse of his fierce wrath how he should giue the flesh of all this people with their Kinges Capitanes and mightie men as a praye to the fowles the vncleane spirites and how he should take the Beast and with him the false Prophet that wrought signes before him wherein he deceiued them that receiued the Beastes marck and worshipped his Image and cast these both aliue into that lake of fire burning in brimstone Who now if not such to whome the scriptures are hidden and this Booke sealed could in this generall falling away from the gospel this generall departure of the true established Churches out of the inhabited this vniuersall corruption confusion of all estates degrees persons callings actions both in the Church commune welth in this estate in this defection seeke for or pleade for a true visible established Church the true ministerie of the gospel true worship ministration sacraments gouernment order Or who that were not droncke and had all their senses bound intoxicate with the whores cuppe could affirme this coÌ„fuse Babel these cages of vncleane birdes these prisons of foule hatefull spirits to be the Spouse of Christ the coÌ„gregatioÌ„s of the Sainctes the true established and rightly ordered Churches of Christ Is it likely that these men haue as yet read the whores misterie written in her forehead or as yet know what belongeth to the true established Church worship administration sacraments ordinances gouernment of Christ though they haue in his Testament which is dayly read amongest them an exact absolute parterne of al these things before their eies And haue not in their Churches anie one thing in their practise and proceedings not one pinne naile or hooke according to the true patterne Yea though they heare the trompets of the Lord blowen against them though they see the viallz of the Lords wrath powred vpon them and all their doings yet stop they their eares wincke with their eies lest they should see with their eies and heare with theire eares and vnderstand with their heartes and be conuerted healed And therfore are so farr from finding place to repentance that they opeÌ„ their mouthes into blasphemie and railings especially these men that haue the marcke of the Beaste vpon whome that euill malignant sore is fallen as you dayly see and heare in their bookes pulpets And how well these gouernours mariners merchantmen and all that trafique on this sea can endure the borning of these their pleasant gainefull wares how they waile howle and crye out when this heauenly fire is cast out into their shippes Let the behauiour of these Bishopps their hierarchie and Priestes towards the seruants of God that speak against their AntichristiaÌ„ proceadings shew and how they bestir them to quench the burning of the harlot smiting rending Christs poore witnesses with tongue tooth and naile casting out of their mouthes a flood of raylings reproches sclanders criminations against theÌ„ of poysoned bitters waters corrupt doctrines blasphemous opinions vnsufferable peruerting abusing the scriptures to hide tollerat or defend the antichristian forgeries abhominations disorder enormities of their Church ministrie that are discouered condempned by the word of God in the mouthes of vs his simple witnesses Of this sort amongst manie other such like are two bookes notoriously infamous lately published by one George Giffard a Priest of their orders against certeine christians whome he calleth Brownists Donatiste In the one of these Bookes he laboureth to defend cleare the parish assemblies of the Church of England of such heinous crimes as the said christians obiect against them and forsake them for witnessing suffring in bandes persecution against the same vnder the handes of those popish Prelats Romish Priestes In the other Booke he indeuoreth to recouer the blame he iustly suffred in the first for reproching sclandering blaspheming accusing these faithfull and innocent christians applijng himself to proue them Donatists by comparing together them from poinct to poinct Both which Bookes are here answered and now at length published to the pervsing iudgment of al men Where they shal see how well he hath delyuered and acquitted their Church in the first As also how iustly he hath proued his charges accusations and blasphemies in the first second The â—ower principall transgressions wherwith we charge and for which we forsake these parish assemblies Namely the prophanenes wickednes confusion of the people which are here receiued reteined nourished as members The vnlawfullnes of their whole ministrie which is imposed vpon them reteined mainteined by them The superstition idolatrie of their publique worship in that deuised Leitourgie which is imposed vpon them And the forgerie of their antichristian ecclesiasticall gouernment to which al their Churches stand subiect are such and so apparant as not only proue these parish assemblies not to be true established Churches of Christ But if it were admitted which can neuer be proued that they somtimes had bene true established Churches yet these transgressions obstinatly stood in and defended are sufficient causes of our seperation from them in this degenerate estate For where such prophane coÌ„fuse multitâ—des without anie exception seperatioÌ„ or choice were all of them immediatly from publique idolatrie at one instant receiued or rather compelled to be members of this Church in some Parish or other where they inhabited without anie due calling to the faith by the preaching of the gospel going before or orderly ioyning togither in the faith there being no voluntarie or perticular confession of their owne faith and duties made or required of anie and last of all no holy walking in the faith found amongst them Who can say that these Churches consisting of this people were euer rightly gathered or built according to the rules of Christs Testament Or who can say that this people in this estate are the communion of Sainctes Or who without sacrilege in this estate can administer the holy things of God vnto or in the same communicate with this people Likewise where these parishes haue a false antichristian ministerie imposed vpoÌ„ them who can say that they are the true established Churches of Christ to the building ministerie wherof Christ hath ordeined instituted and prescribed a certaine ministrie vnto the worldes end Or who without sacrilege may ioyne vnto or communicate with a false antichristian ministrie Christ also hath gyuen vnto his Church perpetuall and alsufficient rules in his holy word for the whole administratioÌ„ gouernmeÌ„t of his established churches to which they are bound wherby they ought to buyld proceede and walke Those Churches then that receiue an other Leitourgie an other foundation other rules for their
subuerteth destroyeth and corrupteth the whole order coÌ„munioÌ„ of the Churches openeth a wide gap to al licentiousnes prophanenes of maners and conuersation wherin if the thowsand part of the heynouse faultes of these wicked multitudes these Sodomitical christians of these tymes should be noted prosecuted censured they should then in one weeke haue as few christians as now they haue many but nowe by this reiecting Gods ordinance erecting their owne deuises al sinne aboundeth ouer-floweth and no sinne though obstinatly held persisted an is iudged to deserue this censure Especially here in England where they excommunicate for no sinne but as the faultes aboue alleadged are held but bleamishes in their worship so the greatest sinnes wickednes are held but infirmities in their life by the Prophets of these dayes But vnto this their Consistory againe They that thus shall erect advance one perticular Congregation as a Iudge a Mother ouer others their Sisters must also erect in the same Congregation or Consistorie one perticular Pastor y t must be a Iudge a Father ouer other Pastors his bretheren And then let them duly consider how far this differeth from Or at leaste how then they can coÌ„demne that Apostatical Sea of ROME and that vnholy Father y â— sitteth therin And let Mr. GIF that is so wel skilled in discipline so derideth our ignorance now at length coÌ„sider better of this reason Seing euery perticular Congregation of Christ hath the power of our Lord Iesus Christ against all sinne and transgressioÌ„ to censure the sinne and to excoÌ„municate the obstinate offenders c. And seing these Parishes haue not this power of Christ neither in themselues in perticular nor yet in their Consistories as hath bene proued whether this conclusion which he termeth so absurde will not followe That they are not therfore the true churches of Christ. And let him y e next time frame a better answere then the Geneua Consistory which though for the reasons abouesaid yt can yeild him no help yet may it not be compared with the popish courtes of these antichristiaÌ„ Bishops Neither will his other kindes of excommunication in their English Romish Synodes proue better Our answeare then vnto his second question is That the excommuncication of an hereticke after he is dulie convinced founde obstinate belongeth not to anie Bishops or Elders of other Churches but vnto that Congregation wherof this heretick stood a ioyned member Although we graunt that for the discussing of matters in doubt and the convincing of some notorious subtile heretick the ayde of other Churches is verie necessarie But the bloudie procedings of these popish Bishops that in their Consistory not onlie convince the heretitke after their scholastical and vnchristiaÌ„ maner but deliuer him to the secular powers to be burned with fire whether the qualitie of the heresie deserue death or no by the lawe of God wherbie they make the magistrates together with theÌ„selues guiltie of murder declare vnto al men how vnlike their popish Consistories are to the holie free wel ordered Synodes of christian Churches But blessed be God that hath somewhat restrayned their crueltie and heweÌ„ their antichristian hornes by statute heere in tâ—is land that they cannot in that maner procede vnto bloude howsoeuer their tongues are not restrayned therbie froÌ„ pronowncing that truth of Christes Gospel which they cannot and dare not vâ—dertake to convince heresie and those Christians which yeild not to their antichristian yoke and enormities Hereticks Vnto the Convocation also of these Romish Priests and horned Cleargie we answeare That it carieth no shew of a christian Synode or Councel and so their excommunication of as litle value as their Sire the Popes is Furder we answeare That Synodes and Councels were not instituted to plucke away the power or â—o execute the publicke dueties of the Church but to instructe stir vp and confirme them in their duties to help them to decide controversies to shew them the rules of Gods worde and not to breake them or to make newe Moreouer we saye That in a christian Synode no christian ought to be shut out but hath equal power and freedome to speake in assent or dissent of anie thing there handled as occasion requireth Yet ought euerie christiaÌ„ to vse this power and libertie aright not disturbing the holie order of the Church presuming to speake before their auntients or against anie thing by them said without shewing iust cause c alwaies keping theÌ„selues within the compasse of faith and sobrietie Who so doth otherwise is reproued of al and iudged of al as a disturber NExt commeth the Suspension or half communication of the Church of ENGLAND namely the Priestes repelling notorious offenders the open Wicked from the Sacrament Mr. Siffard being demaunded of vs simple christians what warraÌ„t he could shew for this strange censure in the Testament of CHRIST and what aucthoritie the Priest there hath to excommunitate anie member of the Church if so be this Suspension were in nature of excommunication Answeareth that it is in nature of excommunication to such as haue bene before admitted yet not to be compared or anie thing neere so great as excommunication And for the Minister that he is to take heed to himself that he giue not holie things to doggs To beware of that which may giue publick offence bring the holie mysteries into coÌ„tempt Because these his answeres doe no way shew or proue that we demaund it is needful that we make a litle â—urder search to seeke out the nature of this Suspension and how neere yt commeth to excommunication We finde that such as before were partakers of are now openlie repelled from the Table of the Lord for notorious sinne wickednes by the Priest alone Now touching this Sacrament doth not the Apostle say The Cup of blessing which we blest is yt not the communion of the blood of CHRIST The breade which we breake is it not the CommunioÌ„ of the Bodie of CHRIST Because we manie are one breade one Bodie for we all partake of one breade 1 Cor. 10. 16. 17. We see here this Sacrament of the Supper to denote that communion which all that partake therof haue with Christ as his members And againe that communion which they haue one with an other in CHRIST as one an others members This their suspensioÌ„ then being a publick â—emouing of notorious offenders from the communion of Christ and from al benefite of his death From the communioÌ„ of the Church and froÌ„ al interest of the Saincts We would knowe of him what it lacketh of excommunication and what excommunication is more If he say that the suspended are not repelled from the ministrie of the worde and prayers of the Church as th'excommunicate are We would then know of him where he hath learned to receiue such to the communion of the ministrie or anie actions of the Church that are repelled from al communion and fellowship with
profession of their owne faith obedience they cannot be receiued as members or haue communion with the Church Then vntil Mr. Giffard proue that the prophane multitudes and open wicked which neuer made anie voluntarie profession of their owne faith and obedience may be receiued as members into the Church he cannot iustifie these Parish assemblies of England or convince vs. Furder we graunt that wicked men such as fal away from their profession and obedience shal daylie arise in the church ells there should be no cause of Excommunication But when their sinne is publicke then ought the Church to ceÌ„sure it and if they be founde obstinate to caste them out ells were there no vse of ExcoÌ„munication We graunt also that the Church sometymes of negligence delaying in due tyme to caste out such wicked is notwithstanding if they amend vpon admonition to be held the true Church of God And this our aduersarye himself Pag. 56. acknowledgeth that we confesse although now forgetting himself his heart being fraught with malice he bursteth foorth in the gall therof accusing and sclandering vs to hold these heresies That where any wicked and open sinners worship together with the Church as members of the Church there the Couenant is disanulled with the whole Church Againe that where corrupt maners breake forth in those that professe the Gospell they be not only vtterly voyde of fayth which offende but also all they that worship together with them though neuer so much grieued at their sinnes are fallen from the Couenant Thirdlie that we make the stablenes of Gods Couenant to depend vpon the worckes of men and not of the free grace and mercie of God How could this accuser drawe these heresies from this assertion It is the Church of CHRIST vvhich hath the power to Excommunicate though it fault much by negligence in executing the same Doth not the expresse contrarie herein appeare How can he then reconcile these chardges of his vnto this proposition of ours Or can he produce any one sentence that euer we wrote or spake conteyning such odious doctrines as these Yf not these heresies must stil retourne to his owne throate as to the sepulchre froÌ„ whence the sprange these chardges must remayne vpon his reckoning not vpon ours WE hold that the open prophane and wicked such as were neuer caled vnto the faith caÌ„not be receiued into the Church as members before they make open and voluntarie profession of their owne faith and obedience He that hath from the beginning distinguished light from darcknes hath alwaies made difference and separation betwixt the world the Church caling the one the Sonnes of God the other the daughters of men preseruing the one in his Arcke drowning the other in the floode he chose and separated to himself out of the whole world one peculiar Nation and people to be his visible Church to whom no prophane which made not professioÌ„ of the same faith might be admitted or ioyned in their worship The worde Ecclesia or Church we knowe to be a companie caled forth from the world as were CHRISTS Disciples and the faithfull in all places at the first gathering of the Church Againe we hold that such as are dulie entred into the Church falling from their profession and after due admonition remaine obstinate and hardened in their sinne ought by the Church to be excommunicate And if the Church being admonished stirred vp vnto their duetie refuse to obey execute the commandemeÌ„t of God that then vnto the faithfull it ceaseth to be the true Church of God and ought to be auoyded vntil they repent The Church of CHRIST must euer be obedient vnto CHRISTS voyce which voyce when they openlie despise wilfully resist they are a companie of rebells not a companie of Sainctes When they fal away from the faith they fal away from the Couenant of God when they obstinaâ—lie persist in sinne wilfully despise Gods voyce they fal away from the faith Faith belieueth reuerenceth and obeyeth Gods worde so far as yt is reueled vnto them and neuer wilfully despiseth or reiecteth anie anie part of the same God can neuer be seuered from his worde they that despise reiect Gods worde despise reiect God himself Christ ruleth and reigneth by the scepter of his owne worde they that are not subiect vnto but wilfully disobey that word are not subiect vnto Christ haue not him a Kinge but a Iudge ouer them Seuere lawes iudgments are set downe in God his worde against presumptuous sinne yea against al sinne wherof they denie to repent God hath executed these iudgments vpon the Angels that sinned vpon the original world vpon the Nation of the Iewes Neither wil anie vayne titles of Church Couenant c. excuse or deliuer them being founde in the like transgressions from the like iudgments God is iust his iudgments are alike pronounced executed against al as against one being founde wilfully remayning in the transgression of his lawe Nowe then vvhilest vve conclude that vvhere the people were neuer rightly caled vnto the faith or gathered vnto CHRIST and orderly ioyned together in Christ But multitudes of prophane al sortes of vvicked persons idolators Atheists c euen the whole land without any choice any separation receiued into their Church as members without any voluntarie profession of their owne faith that in this estate they cannot be esteemed the true planted Churches of CHRIST With what conscience or truth can this vngodly man herevpoÌ„ defame divulge vs to hold this heresie that where corrupt maners breake forth in those that professe the gospell they be not only voyde of fayth which offend but all they also which worship together with them though neuer so much grieued at their sinnes are falen from the Couenant How can he liken these rowtes of prophane Atheists and wicked persons of the world to the faithful seruantes of CHRIST in his Church or compare their open wickednes which they commit even with greedines to the faultes eskapes of frailety or negligeÌ„ce in y e Sainctes Againe whilest we affirme That where open obstinacie is ioyned vnto publick sinne whether yt be in the whole Congregation or in any perticular member there that Congregation or that member cannot by vs be iudged faithfull or within the outward Couenant vntill they repent with what feare of God or shame of men caÌ„ this maÌ„ publish vs to hold that where any open grosse sinne is committed by anie and they stil through ignorance or negligence are suffred in the Church there the Couenant to be disanulled with the whole Church And so we to fall into this heresie To make the stablenes of God his Couenant not to depend vpon mercie and free grace promised and bownde with an oathe but vpon our worckes yea vpon the worckes of other whom we must iudge THis heresie after he himself hath deuised in our name he procedeth to coÌ„fute yt with manie wordes shewing the stability
our owne Iudges in this case but al staÌ„ding to the iudgment of God by his worde ought to haue bene more soberlie and reuerentlie handled Wherein what Mr. G. hath failed wee leaue him to his accomptes before that dreadfull Iudge where the consent and applausion of the Bishops and cleargie of England shall not excuse him for al or anie of these despiteful reproches and fowle sclaÌ„ders that he hath brought vp and published in these his blasphemouse bookes vpon the Lords faithful seruantes and poore witnesses in bandes against this antichristian ministrie and their vngodly proceedings Which if here with all the deipe learning of Sathan cannot be hid or defended how should they stand before his face that hath his eyes like a flambe of fire that searcheth the hartes reynes and giueth euerie man according to his worckes And for vs seing wee finde this their whole ministrie by examining them by and comparing them vnto the rules of Christes Testament to be false forged and antichristiaÌ„ in their office entrance administration and maintenance to haue no place or meÌ„tion in Christes Church Seing vve before our eyes see them to haue serued in and belonged vnto Antichristes euen the Popes kingdome and throne the false Church with all the abhominable idolatries therin wee dare boldlie affirme and conclude That they keeping these offices cannot nowe belong vnto or serue in Christes kingdom his Church neither be kint vnto Christ as their heade But as the Holie Ghost wittnesseth of them they haue a Kinge ouer them the angel of the bottomelesse pit whose name in hebrewe Abaddon and in Greek Apollyon in all languages and places the Destroyer And as we finde them so according to the coÌ„maundement of God we leaue and auoide them turning our eye and speach now a litle to the fourth principal cause of our dislike of and separation from the Church of England THE FOVRTH PRINCIPAL CAVSE OF OVR SEPERATION FROM THE Church of England is 4 FOR that their Churches are ruled by and remaine in subiectioÌ„ vnto an Antichristian vngodly gouernmeÌ„t cleane contrarie to the institution of our Sauiour Christ. FRom this proposition is this argument manifestlie and directlie drawen No true established Church of Christe may vvillingly receiue or vvittinglie stand subiect vnder anie other ecclesiasticall gouernment them Christ hath prescribed and instituted But the Church of England vvillinglie receiueth and vvittinglie standeth subiect vnder a strange ecclesiasticall gouernment other then that Christ hath prescribed and instituted Therfore the Church of England is not the true established Church of CHRIST The chardge argument being so euidient ineuitable as Mr. G. in his first answeare whilest he stoode of the Reformistes side a sutor for Reformation durst neither for shame denie not yet for feare affirme he sought by mouing and after his maner prouing a newe question to obscure and tourne away at the least vntil he sawe furder howe the tymes would goe to shift off the present proposition that pressed so sore with such ambiguous doubtful delphicke words speaches as might be interpreted in what sense himself list And he salfly tourne to that side that were likest to preuaile carrie the creadit in the world First by way of Supposition and Admission in these wordes If it were admitted that there is some yoke of antichristian gouernement Vnder which the poore Church may groane is yt therfore no longer the spouse of CHRIST Mr. Giff hauing thus entreÌ„ched himself might issue out of this skoâ—ce and turne to which side he would As wel might he from hence haue stoode of the Reformistes faction by saying that he neuer sought to plead for or to defend this gouernemeÌ„t of these Prelates but euen in these wordes he doth affirme and pronounce yt to be a yoke of antichristian gouernement a bondage an oppression of the Church c. As now being reuoulted to the Pontifical side he saith he did but propounde it by way of question supposition admission For the present gouernment he holdeth yt the true very gouernment of Christ in substance matter howsoeuer yt haue not the same forme and be not executed in that maner which Christ hath prescribed Of which forme there is great question whether it be permaneÌ„t or variable Neither wil he meddle with the discussing therof because he wil displease neither side But this he held and holdeth That the true Church may be oppressed and remaine vnder some yoke of antichristian gouernmeÌ„t That it is the lot of the Church to be oppressed with outward bondage to be made to keep the vineyarde which is not her owne to be beaten of the watch meÌ„ c. Mr. Gif was answered vnto these That there is great difference betwixt ciuile bondage and ecclesiastical bondage Betwixt outward oppression or persecution and an antichristian yoke or gouernment That the Church had beene or might be in ciuile bondage vnto outwardly oppressed and persecuted by either ciuile magistrates as Pharao Nebuchadnezzar c Or by false ecclesiastical Ministers proud antichristian vsurpers as Pâ—shur Caiaphas Annanias c. But yet that the Church of God may neuer by the one or the other sorte be brought into bondage of and wittingly remaine in subiection vnto anie yoke of antichristian gouernement not euen to the least lawe tradition or deuise of man which they see to be contrary to the word of God For this was shewed to be a losse of christian libertie if they should by the will or power of anie mortal man or men whosoeuer be againe entangled in any yoke of bondage or brought in subiection of anie lawe deuise or tradition of man seeme yt neuer so holie or expedient be yt Circumcision Daies Feastes Fastes Meates c To be so coÌ„trarie to the Gospel as the truth therof should not contynue amoÌ„gst them if they should giue place to anie man in the least of these thinges by way of subiection for the space of an howre Gal. 2. 4. 5. To add vnto the worde of God to superordeyne vnto the Testament of Christ yea to abrogate the Testament of Christ. Gal. 3. 15. To worship God in vayne Mat. 15. 9. Not to hold the head but to be rashlie puffed vp in the sense of their owne fleshe Coll. 2. 18. 19. It was shewed that Christ is the onlie lawe-giuer Kinge Husband and Lord of in his Church That one kingdome caÌ„not receiue two kinges One marriage bed two husbaÌ„ds One house two Lordes so contrarie as Christ and Antichrist at on and the same instant And that one neck cannot be said to beare two yokes and drawe in them both at one instant Neither one person be a faithfull subiect wife seruant to two so diuers and contrarie Kinges Husbands Lords as CHRIST and Antichrist are CHRIST diuideth not neither hath part fellowship or communion with Antichrist There is contynual warre betwixt their kingdomes and subiectes betwixt the false and true Church the false and
he in all this space could bring vs no defence for them Wee cannot see by his owne reason seing they haue neither the true matter nor the forme of CHRISTES gouernment howe their gouernment should be held and esteamed the true and holie gouernment of Christ And then must that sequel which he so feareth needes followe that yt is an antichristian gouernment yoke such as the true Church seruantes of Christ may not beare and wittinglie stand vnder To perticulate all the seuerall corruptions abuses enormities of the gouernment of these antichristian Bishops is not in mie skil or power not knowing in anie measure their Cannons customes orders priueledges proceedings Onlie this in general I may affirme that of such pompeous stagelike popish mixt Courtes handling both ciuile ecclesiastical causes iudiciallie I neuer read through al the book of God or to belonge to Christes Church Especiallie exercising such absolute power iurisdiction ouer al Churches causes and persons ecclesiastical yea vsurping assuming and executing the whole power offices and dueties of al Churches yea euen the proper prerogatiues priuiledges only belonging to Christ himself To make impose or abrogate lawes To giue or rather sel licences dispensations to haue more benefices then one to marrie to eate flesh at tymes of restrainte c To cal sommon and fetch by coÌ„strainte al causes persons of the Church before them There to determine decree to censure silence suspeÌ„d sequester depose incarcerate punish by mulct what Minister or meÌ„ber of the Church they lust of their owne absolute aucthoritie without any controlement reprose or redresse The Church hauing no power or libertie to reprooue or refuse no not so much as call into question anie thing they do or decree to rebuke or censure these inordinate lawlesse fellowes for anie thing they doe either publickely or priuatly The Church must receiue obey as most holie whatsoeuer they decree or impose with al reuerence as the oracles of God though they be neuer so contrarie to the worde of God The Church or any other member of the Church in these Courtes be not permitted so much as to propounde or pleade their owne cause But are by them coÌ„pelled to their romish litigious course procedinges To speake pleade by a feed Advocate or Proctor after their popish order and custome Where for bribes fees al causes be they neuer so fowle corrupt are handled pleaded and proceede that I say not succeede And without such bribes fees no cause be yt neuer so iust and y e partie neuer so poore or innoceÌ„t hath audience or help Here being so many officers catchpolles attendantes to be feed pleased To all these rauenous Birdes with fingers the suetors sommoned become a pray But especially the faithful such as speak against and will not of conscience and faith vnto God stoope downe vnto their antichristian power or obey their vngodly decrees These shalbe worse vsed then any trayterous Papists or facinorous persons whatsoeuer who shall all of them by their purse or freindes escape well enough find fauour when these poore soules shall neuer geat out of their handes without wrack either of bodie or soule either death or denying the faith These though there be no direct matter euidence witnesses or accusers against them yet shall themselues be inforced to a corporal oth as they call it vpon and by a booke to answeare directly and truly to such articles and poyncts as shalbe propownded vnto them If they denie or make conscience either of the maner or matter of this oth then instead of godly instruction or christian persuasion they are forthwith committed to prison yea for the most parte to close prison there to remaine shut vp from al ayre exercise friendes dueties callings c vntill they either yeild to take this idolatrous blasphemous and impious oth or dye vnder their handes No baile maineprise help benefite or redresse by lawe by the Queenes Royal writtes or Courtes allowed to any that are committed by the leaste of this hellish Anarchie Whose lawlesse and insolent dealinges oppressions iniuries violence may not be caled in question or examined by anie ciuile Magistrates or Courtes All which they patronize by her Ma ties high or especiall Commission vnto them Although her Ma tie suffreth her Roial Prerogatiue to be handled considered of in some of these ciuile Courtes yea graunteth to all her free borne subiectes the benefite free vse of her Highnes lawes euen in anie cases or causes betwixt her Highnes and them according to the great Charter in the Magna Charta whervnto her Ma tie is sworne which Charter also these lawlesse Prelates most presumptuouslie and tyrannously violate breake vnder colour of her Ma ties Commission thus setting her Ma ties Commission against her Ma ties Prerogatiue Courtes Royal against that great Charter of the land against all her Highnes lawes yea against al the lawes of God the TestameÌ„t Kingdome of Christ. But to say as it is their procedinges are both against ther coÌ„mission if they might be dulie examined conferred thervnto and against her Ma tâ—es meaning Whose milde preceable iust gouernmeÌ„t in al causes that procead from her self assure vs that She would neuer wittingly graunt such a commission as shoulde be so preiudicial to her owne Crowne Royal dignitie to the estate of the Church and of the whole common wealth as this wherby these Prelates beare themselues their vngodly procedings is That power graunted vnto her Ma tie by ParliameÌ„t to appoinct aucthorize whom she shal thinck meet to execute vnder her al maner iurisdictioÌ„s priuiledges and preemineÌ„ces concerning ecclesiastical causes to her belonging is as also al other her Princely power aucthoritie alwaies to be vnderstood in the Lord so far as shalbe found consonant to his word For neither is there giuen neither may or wil her Ma tie take or exercise any furder or other power then the Lord her God giueth her In whom Kinges reigne of whom their power is diriued and holden by whom yt is circumscribed and limited to whom they shal as anie other persons accompt If then these Prelates and their antichristian Hierarchie these romish Courtes and their popish procedinges in the same be not fownde to be of God to haue anie warrant in his word or to belong to the ministrie gouernment of Christes Church then can no commission or humane aucthoritie whatsoeuer make them lawfull impose or enioyne them vpon the Church Neither ought anie Christian to obey them at the CommandmeÌ„t of any mortal maÌ„ Men must alwaies be obeyed in the Lord. Vnto whom when or wherein they be fownd coÌ„trarie or opposite there must God rather then meÌ„ be obeyed His indignation that caÌ„ cast both body soule into hel fire is more to be feared theÌ„ theirs that can but touch the body only To obey Gods commaundements and to refrayne
persecution of all such as either refraine speake against or reproue their coÌ„munion ministrie worship gouernment being ioyned We may by all these reasons seuerally and haue by them altogether proued these Parrish assemblies in this estate not to be the true established Churches of Christ to which the faithful seruants of Christ ought to resort and ioyne So then all men maie see how falsly this accuser hath sclandered vs and howe far he hath strayed from the present matters and transgressions in question both through his whole booke and in this conclusion of his booke where he chardgeth pronownceth and condemneth vs as heretickes c for condemning a Church for some light imperfections in their worship wantes in their discipline c wheras we for their idolatrie confusion sacrilege false and antichristian ministrie and gouernment obstinacie in all these sinnes hatred of the truth and persecution of CHRISTES seruants haue proued the Church of ENGLAND not to be the true but the malignant Church Therfore wee condemne no true Church as he accuseth neither for such causes as he surmiseth Nor yet do wee but rather God himself condemne them Wee but discouer their sinnes and shew them their estate by the worde of God refrayning and witnessing against their abhominations as we are commaÌ„ded by that voyce from heaueÌ„ Go out of her my people that ye communicate not in her sinnes and that ye receiue not of her plagues c. In the same loue knowing this terror and irreuoâ—able decree of the Lorde against the false Church and all her children wee most earnestly exhorte and instantlie beseech euen so manie to whom the truth of the Lorde and their owne saluation is deare to flee out of the middest of her and to saue themselues from this peruerse generation and to deliuer euerie man his soule from the fierce wrath of the Lord according to the councel of the Prophets and Apostles of God And not to be stayed by the vayne persuasions titles and promises of these false Prophets of thinges present as of the Church worde ministrie Sacraments c or deluded by their vayne hope of things to come as reformation saluation c or deterred with their vayne threates of schisme heresies daunger persecusion c from obeying the voyce of God whilest he yet speaketh and calleth vnto you and offreth grace lest you despise the acceptable tyme of the Lorde the day of his saluation and he sweare in his wrath that you shal not enter into his rest for your disobedience and then hereafter your flight be in the wynter or on the Sabboth when the wrath of God is come vpon you and there be no meanes or way to escape For the vaine boastings of these Prophetts of things present and promises of things to come reade Reuel 18. where the Holie Ghost sheweth their Church to become the habitation of Diuells the prison of euerie vncleane spirit the cage of euerie vncleane and hatefull birde howsoeuer she boast her self a Queene to be no Widowe to see no sorrowe For this in one day shal her plagues come death and sorrowe and famine and she shalbe burnte in fire because the God that coÌ„demneth her is a mighty Lorde You there reade how neither her shipmasters marchantmeÌ„ Princes or multitudes shalbe able to reserue her wares or preserue her from the burning of this heauenly fire No lamentation caÌ„ ease or diminish her sorrowe and grief No balme can cure her woundes no arte reforme or repaire her breaches nor arme or power shield her from the weight of that great milstone that shall presse her and all her children to the deapth of hell being lifted vp ouer her by that mightie Angel The Lord hath pronownced his decree is irreuocable The voyce of his heauenlie harpers musitions the psalmes spiritual songs laudes of his Saincts shal neuer be heard in her anie more the skil and art of any heauenlie artificer worckman or builder shall neuer be found in her any more the voyce of the milstone that grindeth foode for the soule shal neuer be heard in her any more the light of a candle muchlesse the burning lamps of Gods spirit shal neuer shine in her any more to keepe out darcknes the heauenlie and comfortable voice of the Bridegome and of the Bride of CHRIST speaking to his Church in instruction exhortation comfort of CHRISTES Church speaking to him in prayers prayses c shall neuer be heard in her anie more Let her Ship-masters then her Mariners Marchantmen Enchanters and false Prophets vtter and retayle her wares deck and adorne her with the skarlet purple gold siluer iewels and ornaments of the true Tabernacle Let them in her offer vpp their sacrifices their beastes sheepe meale wyne oyle their odors oyntements and franckencense Let them dawbe and vndershore her builde and reforme her vntil the storme of the Lordes wrath breake foorth the morning wherof al these Diuines shal not foresee much-lesse eschue or withstand the terror therof vntil the wall and the dawbers be no more But let the wise that are warned and see the euill feare and depart from the same so shall they preserue their owne soules as a praye And the Lorde shall bring them amongst his redeemed to Sion with praise and euerlasting ioy shalbe vpon their heades they shall obtaine ioy and gladnes and sorrowe and mourning shal flee away FINIS AS WE shewed in these 4. PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSIONS in y e worship coÌ„munion ministri gouernment of the Church of ENGLAND the causes of our separatioÌ„ from their publick assemblies in this estate So at their instance we in like maner set downe vnto them our purpose intent what we now indeuored meant to doe in certaine breife Articles Of those transgressions chardges how this Champion hath defended cleared their Church by that which hath bene written now on both sides may appeare The articles of themselues are so iust and holie as no Diuel can impugne or denie no man of religion conscience or shame gaynesay or resist anie one of them yet hath Mr. GIFFARD instigated by the spirit of vayne-glorie and envie in a singular zeale enterprised to answere and confute them all as you may see in his first writing The cauills and vanitie wherof as also his vniust suspitions calumniations reproches against vs thervpon being layd open in our first reply vnto him so far hath he bene from desisting to sporne against the prikes to sclander accuse and rayle on vs or to take a more sober and christian course for the discussing and deciding these controuersies betwixt him and vs as he hath burst forth yet into furder malice and madnes blaspheming vs in euerie sentence of this his second answere to these our articles with such store of contumelious and odious wordes as if that corrupt synck of his heart could neuer be emptied the malice of his minde and venome of his tongue neuer satiate or vttered
you here take my answere that vve deny these parrish assemblies to be true Churches or to haue anie power or aucthoritie to cast our any according to Christes ordinance so that wee cannot reason vvith you as to make the controuersie of open sinners in the Church but as a confused assemblie not being euer gathered vnto Christ or guyded by his ordiances We know that in the true Church are shalbe opeÌ„ sinners yet ther are rules lawes by due censure to bring them to repentance or els to cast them out if they remaine obstinate in anie open grosse sinne of which things we wil not enter into discourse with you denijng you to haue eyther true Church or power to redresse abuses in your parrish assemblies And where he demandeth vvhat order of discipline wee haue obserued in our separation We haue learned that no other censures belong vnto the false Church then powring forth the vialls into the ayre waters sunne c. For this wee haue the direction and commandement of God Reuel 16. 18. 6. Againe where should we finde your Synod of Pastors in the whole tayle of the Dragon you haue no such order as you prate of vnskilfully your L. Arch-B or Ordinatie can teach you otherwise then plead for Synods of Pastors For anie ChristiaÌ„ or equal triall either in free conference by the Scriptures or triall by the coÌ„mon law we haue vpon the dispence of our lyues long sued for it and caÌ„not obtaine anie as vvee haue said and finde nothing but furor dolus tumulius amongst your broode Now after his former discourâ—e he will from poinct to poinct proue vs to agree with the Donatistes First saith he the Donatistes did accuse and condemne the Churche and ministerie of the Churches most falslie And I say saith he the Brownistes are as false accusers as they and condemne as iniustly in all crimes Here are bold and sore chardges but Mr. Giffards bare word wil not stand The Donatistes cause was not about the orderly gathering of a true Church but for the casting out of the vnworthie not about the office entrance or administration of the ministerie but about the sinnes of such as were in that office So that if Mr. Giffard would looke againe of the cause he should finde no cause to keepe this stirr as vpon a stage to no end or edifijng Wee haue often told him in our former writinges that our matter is not about offenders in the Church but about the beeing or not beeing a Church In the meane time he handsomly layeth vpon their owne filthines saying companies and swarmes of drunckardes gluttons whoremasters couetous worldlings greedie vsurers extortioners oppressours bribers defrauders lyers backbyters and sclanderers envious hateful and contentious persons swearers and cursers are suffred and admitted to the Lords Table this saith he in manie or in most of their parrish assemblies And many of their ministeri such Where admit them a Church in his owne coÌ„ceit let him ad now this more which is as true that they haue no power to redresse these euils by due censure for that they thus coÌ„tynue after they haue bene long ofteÌ„ reproued for this sacriledge and we are bold to pronouÌ„ce the Priest as the people a deÌ„ne of theiues a cage of vncleane spirits as the harlot that receiueth all commers cast together into Iesabels bed Hee further confesseth that the threatnings of the Prophets against Israel are due vnto them Whereby hee confesseth these assemblies not to be the Churches of God For all the Prophets that prophesied against Israel in the defection pronounce her not to be the Churche of God reade Hosea 1. 2. Ieremie 3. Ezechiell 23. But saith he might not the Donatistes haue pleaded that there were manie wicked people wicked Ministers in those Churches from which they separated We answere that is not questioÌ„ For first we denie you to haue anie Church orderly gathered vnto the ordinances worship gouernment of CHRIST which they did not And againe we haue not to reasoÌ„ what they might haue excepted against those assemblies or ministers but what they made the cause of their separation wherein you trouble but your self and with odiouse names deceiue the ignorant to make anie shewe of agreement betwene our cause and theirs It wil be demanded saith he whither Cyprian the rest of the godly did worship together with those open sinners in their dayes ioyning with them in prayer and in the sacramentes c. No the question shalbe Mr. Giffard Whether if they did communicate with the open transgressions of the lawe in their time they did wel and lawfully therein or no for I trust you will graunt that the Church hath alwayes power to cast out the obstinate offenders reade then the â— of the 1 to the Corinth a litle more coÌ„sideratly and tel vs whether they faulted not in keeping in their fellowship the incestious person and for not purging out the leauen from amongst them for what saith the text Now I write vnto you that you companie not together If anie that is called a brother be a fornicator or an Idolator or railer or a drunckard or an extortioner vvith such an one eate not Where the words me synanamignysthai be not together commingled and after vvith such an one eate not sheweth a plaine inhibition of communicating with the open prophane or impenitent offendors For where is this commixture or commixion if not in that holy banquet and coniunction in the communion and supper of the Lorde and if Mr. Giffard could discerne the spiritual things he might see the outward signes of bread and wyne to be tokens not only of our vnion with Christ and benefit of his death but also of our communion vvith the members of his bodye spiritually as the holy Ghost reasoneth saijng The cup of blessing vvich vvee blesse is yt not the communioÌ„ of the blood of CHRIST and the bread vvhich vve breake is it not the commanion of the bodie of CHRIST for vve that are manie are one bread and one bodie because 〈◊〉 are partakers of one bread For vs then to come together in this banquet and spiritual reioycing with the members of CHRIST to our iudgment we haue true comfort one with another But with the open prophane or obstinate open knowen transgressor ther caÌ„ be no good reioycing fellowship or communion for besides the vvicked Priest that presumptuouslye blesseth where God curseth and committeth sacriledge in delyuering the signe of Gods Couenant with his people in CHRIST to the treaders vnder their feete of his body and blood so the whole Congregation and euery one that participateth with those open wicked transgresse in not admonishing casting out the leauen against so manie rules as command admonition excommunication by due order and partake with y e wicked against God by their reioycing with them as bretheren But as I haue stil pleaded with you we know better order then blinde separation in pride for the sinnes
committed in the Church denijng to reason with you what is to be done in the Church till you haue proued your Church to be a true Church established guyded by the officers and lawes of CHRIST so that all your matter is but the fighting with your owne shadowe and flying the question in hand But my purpose is not to follow your gameplay either to iustifie the Donatistes or those learned Pastors neither to reiect the truthes nor maintaine the errors of either of both sides we haue a better foundation to buyld vpon and a surer word to trust vnto it is because you haue no furniture on your self that you set forth this shew and fight vnder other mens names Your sauour is lost if euer you had salt Looke on one of your Arguments how well it wil prooue your matter The Brownistes vse 5. or 6. places of scripture which the Donatistes vsed therfore the Brownistes be Donatistes Let the Brownistes answere for themselues but sure I must deny both Proposition and Consequence For neither do we agree in the application of these with them neither do we aledge all the same places because we alledge some which they alledged for excoÌ„munication of the open knowen obstinat wicked in the Church or separation from the false Church Neither doth it follow that because we alledge some places they did that therfore we are Donatistes If you allow anie separation from Turke or Pope you must agree with Donatistes in some of these scriptures Esaias 52. 2 Corixth 6. And in this your exquisit search you haue had one place alledged yet now which if you had well looked vpon you would haue bene ashamed to haue compared vs to the Donatistes It is written Reuel 18. 2. 3. 4. 5. verses c where your mother Church of ROME with all her Daughters is proclaymed no longer to be rested in or communicated with If your assemblies be such a cage stand in such confusion haue the same ministerie lawes worship c then we must come out of her Where in consideration that you would conningly turne away all places that commaund a separation by other mens expositions and haue not managed your cause in your owne name I will brieflie demaunde whither you wil maintaine these doctrines or no For the convincing whereof I shall either refer you to our haÌ„dling of the 4. transgressions or els gyne you answere when you deale perticularly in your owne name First beginne to set downe vnder your owne hand that these scriptures Come out froÌ„ emongst them Depart out of her Separate your selues c are not vnderstood of a separation both of bodye and minde SecoÌ„dly that the Minister being a swearer drunkerd couetous worldling c he continuing obstinate in his sinne in that estate may be suffred to administer and the godly may coÌ„municate with him in sacramentes and prayer Thirdly that it is lawful for the Minister to delyuer the parties to receiue the people to coÌ„municate with open knowen vnrepentant professed whoremasters multitudes of wicked Fourthly that open sinne may be tollerated in the assemblie Fiftly that when open sinners be common and such persons manie it were no safe to vse the censures of the Church Sixtly that ther may be a separating in heart and coÌ„ming out from them in minde with whome we coÌ„municate in the Church That ther is no polution participation or coÌ„municating with other mens sinnes but either by doing the same euill or consenting in heart to the euill and though they remaine in their open filthines vnrepentant our communicating with them in the sacrament or prayer or the priestes delyuerie of the Sacrament vnto them is no reioycing with them in their sinne no communicating with other mens sinnes no allowance or consenting or approuing of them in euill nor no sinne or transgression in vs. That they which are the Temple of the lyuing God and in the middest of a crooked peruerse nation apearing as lightes in the world hauing the word of life nothing can infect them which they tollerat for vnities sake neither are they put vp in anie straight because God dwelleth in them and walketh amongst them That to separat from such a peruerse and crooked generation were dangerous lest we should separat in spiritual separatioÌ„ from the good such separation were seditious That Dauid was not separat in body from the open wicked vncleane in the sacrifice in his dayes That Isâ—ias himself in one Congregation with them did touch the vncleannes which he reproued in the people That the Apostle Paule the Church of Corinth did tollerate communicate with such as coÌ„mitted fornicatioÌ„ though they repented not but continued in their sinne after due admonition That in policie for feare of schisme excommunication may not be vsed against open obstinat sinners but they may be tollerated communicated with of the godly That when he which for some notorious crime is reprehended hath the multitude his companion it is not healthful to reprehend or excoÌ„municat but to tollerat That the cause person of the tares being vnderstood of the open wicked and vnrepentant doth not preiudicate the cause and person of the wheate growing together in the field and whither you will interpret this of the Church That the cause person of the chaffe doth not preiudicat the cause and person of the corne being together in the same floore vntil the last wynowing the same of the goates sheepe in the pastures the fishes good bad in the net the vessells of honour dishonour The causes person of the chaffe bad fishes goates vessells of dishonour being vnderstood of the open knoweÌ„ wicked whore-masters murderers heretickes Idolators c and the field floore pastures net howse c of the apparant Church and make the inhibition of plucking vp the tares a coÌ„mandement then is not only the censures of the Church admonition excommunication c but the vse of the magistrats sword not only needlesse but vtterly vnlawfull to be exercised against anie transgression Let Mr. GIFFARD see how he is plunged in Anabaptistrie Athisme and blasphemous contradiction of the whole reueiled will of God for the cutting downe of sinne But let Mr. GIF or his Ordinarie in their owne name subscribe these foresaid Positions and he shal heare our answere We wil not confute them in the persons of dead men We then conclude this point thus that Mr. GIFFARD hath ignorantly skambled about the sinnes arising in the Church and the order of reprehension when all our question is of a separation from a false Church consisting of the world of Athiestes Papistes heretickes and all sortes of prophane not gathered vnto CHRIST So that he hath but fought with his owne shadow in comparing vs to the Donatistes in this poinct Againe al Augustines reasons are against separtioÌ„ in y e Church without discreet and orderly vsing of the power of CHRISTs by the censure of excommunication wheras you all confesse you haue no
A PLAINE REFVTATION OF M. G. GIFFARDES reprochful booke intituled a short treatise against the Donatists of England Wherein is discouered the forgery of the whole Ministrie the confusion false worship and antichristian disorder of these Parish assemblies called the Church of England Here also is prefixed a summe of the causes of our seperation and of our purposes in practise which M. GIFFARD hath twise sought to confute and hath now twise receiued answere by HENRIE BARROVVE Here is furder annexed a briefe refutation of M. Giff. supposed consimilituda betwixt the Donatists and vs. Wherein is shewed how his Arguments haue bene may be by the Papists more iustly retorted against himself the present estate of their Church by I. GREN. Here are also inserted a fewe obseruations of M. Giff. his cauils about read prayer deuised Leitourgies 1591. To the right honorable Pere and graue Counselor Sr. WILIAM CECILL Knight of the most noble order Baron of Burleigh Lord high Treasurer of England c. grace wisdome be multiplied from God our Father from our Lord IESVS CHRIST Pro. 18. 17. Iustus qui primus in lite su◠donec aduenit proximus eius peruestiget illum HItherto Right Honorable haue our malignant aduersaries had their full scope against vs with the lavve in their ovvne handes and haue made no spare or conscience to accuse blaspheame condempne punish vs yea to pronounce publish vs as damnable heretikes schismatikes sectaries seditious disobedient to Princes deniers abridgers of their sacred povver c to the eares eies of all men openly in their pulpits and in their printed bookes published by the consent approbation of their Church No triall all this while vpon anie sute or complaint graunted vs Either ciuile that we might knovv for what cause by what lavve we thus suffer which yet is not denied the most horrible malefactors offendors Or ecclesiasticall by the word of God where place freedome might be giuen vs to declare pleade our ovvne cause in sobrietie order that so the meanes appoincted of God for our recouerie might be vsed and we wherein we should be found to erre or transgresse might be cōuinced to our faces by the scriptures and left inexcuseable But in stead of this christian course they haue shut vs vp novv more then three yeares in miserable close prisons from the aire from all exercise from all companie or conuersation with anie person from all meanes so much as to write yncke paper being taken kept from vs and a diligent watch both by our keapers held ouer vs and also continuall searches vpon one pretence or other made where we were rifled from time to time of all our papers and writinges they could find And being thus streightly kept watched from speaking or writing their conscience yet giuing them no rest in all their prosperitie and pleasures whilest we the Lords poore witnesses against their sinnes breathed Not to speake of their secret indirect meanes wherby they sought to take avvay our lyues they suborned amongest sondrie others tvvo special instruments M. Some M. Giffard to accuse blaspheme vs publiquelie to the viewe of the world etch of them in tvvo bookes the one labouring to proue vs Anabaptists the other Donatists in the same Which Bookes they haue preferred especiallie to your Honor as the chiefe obstacle that hindered them from their violent and bloudie course of the same intent no doubt that their predicessors the chiefe Priestes and Pharasies accused our Sauiour vnto Pilat and the Apostle Paule vnto the Romane gouernours Yet euen all this we hope the Lord hath disposed to the furder manifestation of his truth by directing our aduersaries to bring our criminations before your Honor. Of whose wisdome equitie we haue so great experience assurance as we can not frō henceforth doubt to be condempned vnheard or to find therein worse vsage then our Sauiour the Apostles found at those heathē Rulers Wherfore we addressed our selues by such meanes as the Lord administred and as the incomomodities of the place and the infirmities of our decaied bodies memories would permit to our defence or rather to the defence of that truth wherof God hath made set vs his vnvvorthie witnesses though as signes to be spokē against and as monstrous persons in this sinfull generation And haue herevnto vndertaken Mr. Giffards two reprochfull blasphemous Bookes Shevving the true causes of our seperation from the parish assemblies confirming approuing the same to be both true and sufficient by sondrie weightie reasons expresse scriptures Refelling by the like all the friuolous cauills and iniurious sclanders which M. G. hath there brought to hide their sinnes deface the truth and to defame vs. As also shevving such apparant dissimilitude betvvixt the Donatists and vs both in the causes of our their seperation and in the maner of our their proceedings and in sondrie errors they held as no man of anie knovvledge or iudgmēt before attempted or shall hereafter be able with anie truth or conscience to compare vs vnto them herein or to excuse M. G. for this his vnchristian dealing with vs. All whose vnsanctified reproches whervvith his bookes through euerie sentence are seasoned in stead of better grace herevpon fall to the ground and remaine vpon his ovvne and not vpon our accompt This defence when whe had through the mercifull hand of our God finished though not with anie shevv of humane wisdome or arte so much as in simplicitie of the truth innocencie of our heartes we held it our dutie to present in like maner in alreuerence humilitie vnto your honorable vievv graue cōsideratiō That both sides being heard according to equitie and our ansvveres as well as their criminatiōs duly expended your sentence or at the lest approbation might proceede according to the truth Crauing herein no furder fauour then according to the equitie of our cause innocencie of our doings Nor yet shunning any furder triall of the one or the other that your Honor shall appoinct or thinck meet whether with these our aduersaries or anie other that shall be contrarie minded whosoeuer Beseaching your Honors perdō for this our bould presumption the rather because such necessitie was layed vpō vs by the hand of God through the importunate chalenges insolent prouocatiōs of these our accusors whose mouthes must either be stopped or else through our defalt y e holy truth of God which we beleeue professe yea our innocēcie be betraied to the perpetual infamie of these our reprochfull aduersaries to our ovvne perill and future iudgment to the scandall of all that professe the same truth with vs but chiefly to the offence and torning backe of manie euen of the whole land from the streight waies of the Lord euen the waies of life and peace All which mischiefes we trust shalbe preuented by these our simple indeuours the Lord
1 Peter 2. Neither to be built according to the true Apostolike patterne 1 Cor. 3. But to consist of those monstrous members Reuel 9. Reuel 13. and of those prophane multitudes Reuel 17. 18. Remayning in confusion disorder Reuel 18. 2. And therfore not to be held the heauenly body of Christ but that monstrous body of that Beast Not that holy Spouse of Christ but that adulterous harlot Not that compact Citie that heauenly Ierusalem but that confuse BabiloÌ„ Furder to that faith life of the Church he speaketh of we confesse indeed to the stopping of his sclanderous mouth that so vntruly chargeth vs that no sinne or sinnes in anie Church or Christian can disanull the Couenant where this true faith is found But this we say that true faith may not be sâ—uered from true repentance euen of all things â—hey see to be contrary to Gods word True faith may neuer be seuered from true obedience of whatsoeuer is shewed to be the will of God in his word Faith without workes is dead Now then to the faith of the Church of England we finde yt without workes we find yt without repentance In their worckes as the Apostle saith they denye God howsoeuer in words they confesse him in their deeds they are abhominable vnperswaded to euerie good worke howsoeuer they make a shew of godlynes they denye the power therof Yea so far are they from suffring their workes to burne being shewed and reproued vnto them by the word of God as they smite persecute and blaspheme with all hostilitie and reproch those that but shew and reproue their sinnes How then should they be thought to haue this true faith this true life in them But the faith of their Church remaineth to be furder examined discussed in this Booke whither I refer for furder triall And now if this verbal faith confession of iustification by CHRIST only make a Church a Christian though they erre transgresse in manie yea in anie other thing as the life doth make a man c how may we that professe this faith make this confession be by M. Giffard accused pronounced coÌ„demned divulged as damnable Heretikes Brownists Seâ—ismaticks c Shall this faith giue life vnto them and not vnto vs Or will he slay them that Christ gyueth life vnto And that before anie due conviction of anie one error or transgression deseruing these hard censures sentences May he not euill accuse vs of rash furious disorderly dealing that thus vncharitably accuseth condempneth smiteth before anie triall Yea that thus presumptuously runneth before and forestalleth the iudgment of their owne Church pronouncing divulging vs damnable heretikes schismatickes before their Church had detected convinced reiected vs for anie one errot As to the heresies he accuseth vs of Namely to hould an 〈◊〉 perfectioÌ„ in this life immunitie froÌ„ sinne from the superior powers y t God hath set ouer vs. When he shall be able to shew by anie one sentence in our writings or but necessarily to infer from the same that we hould these heresies Let vs then be held such and M. Giâ—â—ard no accuser and sclanderer But if the contrarie appeare in all our writings and doings then is it euident that he hath most maliciouslie sclandered vs to bring vs in hatred with our souereigne Queene the whole Land We may euill be accused to hould the error of perfectioÌ„ for blaming their Church for such heynous transgressions Or of Anabaptisticall freedoÌ„ for not being subiect to their antichristian yoake Or for vsing the 4 5 Chap. of the Epistle to the Gaâ—â—at against their burdenous and vngodly traditions These causes scriptures wil not beare vp M. G. his malicious suspicions chardges Neither if we held these detestable heresies could our sinns or errors either excuse or lessen these traÌ„sgressions of theirs It is a bad foundation to build his credit vpon the ruines of other mens especially by such detraction sclander The Schisme he chargeth vs with hath as litle ground or colour of truth We willed him long since to proue these Parish Assemblies in this estate true established Churches and then we would shew him how free we are of schisme We depart not from anie part of the truth or from anie that will walke holily orderly in the same The causeâ— of our seperation from these Parish assemblies we haue shewed to be such as proue them no true established Churches of Christ or such where the faithfull may abide with anie promise or comfort In seperating from them then we haue not rent our selues from the Church or body of Christ but rather seperated the Church from them and obeyed the commandement of God that calleth vs out from emongst them Againe whilest M. GIFF. standeth so much vpon the name of a Church and giueth the same to the Romish Syâ—â—gog in their deepest apostasie how will he escape himselfe or cleare the Church of England from the blot of Schisme for seperating and withdrawing from the Church of Rome Anie excuse that he can make or deuise wil cleare vs as wel as theselues Let him looke therfore to y e measure he meateth lest it be measured vnto him againe with the same not oÌ„ly in this matter of Schisine but euen in that especial poinct of Donatisâ—rie which he of a singular iudgment aboue all others of this time hath espied out and taken no small paines to compare and liken vs vnto them from poinct to poinct Forgetting in this heate of zeale and acuâ—â—inat pregnacie of his how the Papistes haue coÌ„tinually battred them with the â—ame ordinance with much greater aduantage then he hath vs In asmuch as he confesseth the Church of Rome the true established Church of Christ with the true ministri and true seale of the Couenant c And in that they still reteine the same ministrie Gouernment Courtes Officers Canons Orders Parishes People Synagogs c that the Papiâ—tes vsed left in this Land as the Douatists did Wheras we on the contrarie do not seperate for the same causes neither doo iustifie or reteine the same ministrie worship Leitourgie Officers Ordinances Gouernment Parishes Synagogs that they vse c as the Donatists did Neither do we hold such errors concerning the Magistrates or ministrie c as the Donatists did as is here more perticularly shewed in a peculiar treatise whither I refer Only here obseruing how the malicious man still by the iust iudgment of God falleth into the same pitte which he digged for the innocent For whilest he would accuse vs to derogate from the Princes authoritie in not allowing her to make lawes for the Church And greatly to blemish her â—ame diminish her loue emongest her subiects whilest we denie these Parishes to be true established Churches of Christ He himself layeth vpoÌ„ her al these popish trumperies idolatrous reliques antichristian enormities abuses of their church and distaineth her
to make hauock of them and excoÌ„municate at his pleasure But al theis transgressions and enormities whatsoeuer you thinke to heale or hide at the least with these 2 drye wythered fig-leaues The one That you cannot remedie the matter Thother Priuate meÌ„ may not reforme In the first you coÌ„fesse your selues depriued of that powre which Christ vnto the worlds end hath left vnto his Church to reforme redresse things amisse In tho'ther depriued of al christia libertie will so much as to saue your owne soule and to come forth of this Babilonish bondage you stand in still dreaming of the reformatioÌ„ of your idolatrous Sinagogs and seeking to heale the wounde of the Beast comparing them to the Temple of God and still begging the question frame your Arguments as though your people were faithful and your prayer holie Alas it were better you toke example by the fearefull iudgmeÌ„ts of God vpon y e Temples and learned of the faithfull seruants of God which in the idolatrous dayes of Achas 〈…〉 c refâ—eined from that they could not amend rather then in this â—rantick maner to blaspheme the name of Christ whervpon we are called by comparing vs to Anabaptists Heretiks for obeying the voice of God that calleth vs from emong you and for telling you the truth THE 3 fault is A false Antichristian ministrie imposed mainteined Here is no reason rendred whie it is a false Antichristian ministerie which is imposed Yf yee be Prophetts raised vp of God we must belieue that which you say but they did not lye in anie matter but euerie man may see that you haue in the former Article lied We may not therfore giue credit to your imaginations We haue more to proue that ther be manie faithfull Ministers of Christ in the land then that anie shalbe able to ouerthrow This I would wiâ—h that simple men would haue thus much wisdome as to suspend their iudgment if they be in doubt and so enquire if ther be anie churches of Christ vnder heauen what they do iudge of the Ministâ—rie churches of England For if ther be no Church of Christ nor ministerie and all the famous men in all the Churches say we be knowing our estate as they doo right well then be they all guyltie then where shall we finde the Church Shall we seek yt emongst a few vncharitable men which cannot shew anie Church which agreeth vvith them so nerely as the Anabaptists Donatists Let it be set downe vvhat maketh a true Minister of Christ and then if that be not found in manie Ministers in England let them be condemned Antichristian It is the part of euerie godly christian man to haue the matter throughly tried before he pronounce sentence if it were but against one man he should sinne grieuouslie to doo otherwise much more when the sentence is against the whole Church HERE you say is no reason rendred by vs vvhie yt is a false and Antichristian Ministrie which is imposed But if you had better vveighed these two former Transgressions vvherwith we charge you or dulie considered of your owne answere before you had put penne to paper you might haue gayned this labour you haue taken the shame you are like to suffer by theis your friuolous indirect answers Or if you had consulted with your learned bretheren vpon the matter to whome this promise which you haue intercepted more nerely by many rightes apperteined they would haue couÌ„selled you to haue vsed your discretion rather in the pulpit as they doo where you may say what you list without controlement theÌ„ thus bewray your follie in writing which lyeth subiect to the censure of all men in all ages They consider that an euill and corrupt matter ought rather to be couered then raked in lest yt become more odious Now we were perswaded by the word of God that the true Minister of Christ could not be a Minister of idolatrous false worship Such in our first cause of our comming out from emong you we proued the worship in your assemblies to be Then we were perswaded by y e word of God that a true Pastor could not stand a heard to the Lords goates and swyne blessing them with the blessing of the faithfull and deliuering them the holy things of God as the Sacraments c. Such in our second cause we proued both you and your people as they generally stand in your Parishes to be And now in this third cause your self by but repeating part of our words doo giue a strong sufficient reason Namely that your Ministrie is thrust imposed vpoÌ„ your Churches not freely chosen by the Lords faithful people according to Christ his ordinance in his TestameÌ„t You know our Sauiour Christ his iudgmeÌ„t of such as come into the shepefolde by inâ—rusion or ascend vp anie other way So then wee seeke not that you should credit vs or hold vs for Prophetts But if this wee speake be that vvhich God by them hath vttered then you deride not vs so much as them nor them so much as the Spirit of God that spake in them But the Prophetts of God lied not in anie thing but euerie man may see that wee haue in the former Article lied The Deuill is the author of lies sclaunders false accusations against the Saincts c and therof hath his name All that make or loue lies are his childreÌ„ and shalbe shut off the Citie of God This chardge wee haue repelled in the 2. Transgression where wee proued all receiued into your Church by Baptisme and are reteined in your Churches because you haue not the powre of Christ to excommunicat anie Thus still you fall into the pitte you make for vs by Gods iust iudgmeÌ„ts and shall by the same receiue the reward of a liar a false vvitnesse a false Prophet if God giue you not grace to repent which wee shall more ioye in then in your confusion Of the great store of reasons you haue to proue your Ministrie to be of Christ your selues faithfull you might haue bestowed one of your store either for pitie or for loue vpon vs who you see are fully perswaded that ther is not one such Minister among you all at least for sauing your self from the blame you layde vpon vs one reason vvould haue done vvel But chiefly for confirming your Ministerie to be of Christ one at the least had bene more then necessarie For otherwise wee may not belieue your bare affirmation before Christs negatiue In whose Testament wee finde neither the names you carie the Offices you beare the maner of your entrance of your administration neither of your support maintenance Your discent and pedegree is within few degrees deriued from the Pope you being the children of your Antichristian Bishops which are the creatures of the Pope who is the eldest sonne of Sathan and his Vicar gennerall in earth whose image marke powre and life you
Pastâ—rs and there al are admitted he that admitteth them being the worst in the companie These assemblies as openlie guiltie of this confusion sacriledge wilful prophanatioÌ„ of the holie things of God he would not then defend But now vpon better aduise the world being greatly changed with the reforming Priests since that tyme and no hope left for that sect to preuaile aganst the Bisshops he hath changed his copie quite building againe those Romish abhominatioÌ„s he had before destroyed as in the Transgression aboue handled appeareth And nowe in this Transgression as one greatly greiued that such large wordes had escaped him he seeketh to retract them in the best maner he may and to salue al againe by saying That the Church of England doth neither approue such admission of prophane men to the Sacrament nor yet suffer it in practize wholie howsoeuer they are admitted through the negligence of the Ministers c. Where this high sacriledge is wittingly wilfully committed by the most of the Ministers seene and suffred by al the Gouernours of the Church who haue made and doe maineteine such wicked Ministers where most of the people of the land consent ioyne in this sinne where that lesser part of Ministers people he speaketh of that doe not the like haue made no separatioÌ„ froÌ„ these wicked Gouernours Ministers and People that thus wilfully contynue in this presâ—mptuous sinne sacriledge but ioyne vnto them in the communioÌ„ of their prayers Sacramens Here we would knowe whether the Church of England may not iustly be reproued for suffring approuing this sinne Ells th'Apostle faulted for reprouing the whole Church of Corinth for suffring not casting out th'incestuous person although no doubt there were in the Church of Corinth that vtterly disliked condemned the offence That all the Gouernours of your Church thus approue mainetaine these wicked Ministers whoÌ„ they haue made is manifest in that they doe not censure theÌ„ for their heinous offences That these Ministers coÌ„mit this sacriledge your self hath in your former answere coÌ„fessed terming them vngodlie and iudging them the worst of the companie Where by the waye not to hinder the matter in hand we must advertise you that you haue highly broken the rules of christian order and charitie towards these your bretheren fellowe Ministers thus to publish and condemne them and that to such as you hold hereticks and schismaticks from your Church before your Church had censured them or you for the Churches wilful default had forsaken either the Church or theÌ„ If they be to be esteamed the true Ministers of CHRIST which office they professe to beare in your Church then great is your sinne thus disorderlie to blaspheme iudge and publish them If they be not to be esteamed the true Ministers of CHRIST theÌ„ as great is your sinne in ioyning vnto them in communion of prayers and Sacraments c and in not separating from them and from that Church which thus presumptuouslie doth make impose and mainetaine such an antichristian vngodly Ministerie Thus your disorderlie and vnchristian behauiour towardes your bretheren yea the Ministers of your Church wherof your self by profession standeth as yet a Minister and member might be greatly agrauate and more iustly charged with those faults you lay vpon vs of accusing condemning whole assemblies of Christ of rending and tearing vp the tender plants in most desperate and sauage maner And al this before the Church of England hath censured these Ministers and assemblies If we would be so friuolous we could throughly wound you with your owne weapons But we remitt you to the iudgment and vengeance of the Lord for all your blasphemie and cursed speaking stil witnessing against the sinnes of your Church prouing if God at anie tyme wil giue you repentance FVrder in your former answeare you affirmed that you knewe manie Congregations in England where the Pastor repelled th'vnworthie from the Sacraments c. We replyed That euen in those special Congregations all the prophane and their seede were at the first receyued as in all your other Congregations And that this Suspention of the Pastor wherbie he repelled was popish and Antichristian euen the instrument of that idol shephearde rebated without edge or poynte of no value or power c and therfore this could be no separation seing the suspended stil remayned of and in your Church That al without exception were receiued in these Congregations we proued because all without exception of anie were baptized That none were or could be there put out we proued because the Parson and his whole flocke or al these special Pastors or flockes together haue not that power which our Lorde IESVS CHRIST hath giuen vnto his Church vnto the worldes end to caste out the wicked by excoÌ„municatioÌ„ and the other Congregations by his owne confession did not caste them out All this notwithstanding Mr. Giffard before he hath either proued the orderly gathering communioÌ„ of these Congregations at the restoring from apostasy or that they nowe had the power of Christ amongst them to excommunicate the wicked wil needes by this idol popish Suspension iustifie these Congregations and convince vs of falle accusation And thus euerie where he administreth weapons vnto vs to wound beate himself with his owne wordes according to the prouerbe in the mouth of the foole the staffe of pride BVt at length to reconcile himself againe with those most part of CoÌ„gregations Ministers which he before coÌ„demned he hath changed peruerted and subtilely sullected our reason which we brought against those speciall assemblies which he endenoured to iustifie and turned yt against the whole Church of England thus Where all are receaued in by Baptisme and no povver to cast forth anie by excommunicatioÌ„ there all the prophane multitudes are without exception of anie one person receiued into retained in the bozome bodie of the Church But in the Church of ENGLAND all are receiued in by baptisme aud there is no povver to â—ast forth anie by excommunication Therfore in the Church of ENGLAND all the prophane multitudes without the exception of anie one person are receiued into and reteined in the bozome and bodie of the Church THus after he hath manifestly falsified our wordes and changed our whole reason framing yt in his owne coÌ„ceipt as he might best deale withall he then procedeth with all might mayne to refute this Argument and to convince vs. Which being donne he followeth the chace so whotely spending opening his mouth freely into all maner blasphemie as he driueth vs into sondrie heresies c. But now if we might be so bolde to awaken the man out of his cholerick dreame and to call him backe againe to our former reason after all this conflicte pursute and triumph he shalbe founde to haue skirmished all this while but with his owne shadowe and neuer to haue comen neare our Argument and so all his reproches and heresies must
be fayne to returne back againe into his owne heart where they were forged and whence they proceded Our former Argument being reduced into forme was to this effect Into what Congregations all are receiued as members and the said Congregations haue not the power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST to caste out anie by excommunication there al the prophane multitudes without th'exceptioÌ„ of any one person are receiued into retayned in the bozome and bodie of that Church or of those Churches But in those special Congregations he spake of where the Pastor doth repell from the Sacrament al are receiued as members and the Parson whole parish Or all those Pastors and their flockâ—s haue not the power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST to cast forth anie by excommunication Therfore euen in those speciall parishes where the Priest by their seruice-booke repelleth from their Sacrament are all the prophane multitudes without th'exceptioÌ„ of any one person receiued into reteined in the bozome bodie c. Here Mr. GIFFARD finding the Maior or first Proposition irrefragable The Minor thus proued vnto him because al in these parishes are baptized and the Parsons suspention is not CHRISTS excommunication hath sought to escape by changing falsifijng our reason which otherwise he was neuer able to answeare He hath quite chaunged yt by putting in a newe Minor Proposition Namely for these peculiar CongregatioÌ„s wherof he made instance he hath put the whole Church of England as they staÌ„d one bodie altogether And is now driueÌ„ to mingle these his select CoÌ„gregations with the other Most parte of Churches Ministers whom erewhile he condemned graunted guiltie of this transgression and also to praye in ayde appeale vnto the popish excommunication of that antichristian Hierarchie of their Church Gouernours And this by furder falsifijng our wordes in both his propositions vizt Where we said haue not CHRISTES power to cast forth anie by excommunication he saith haue no power to cast forth anie by excommunication We neuer doubted but the Church of England as also her mother of ROME hath a false kinde of excommunication exercised in the power of the Dragon of the Beaste but we stil denie that they haue that true ExcoÌ„munication which is exercised in the name power of CHRIST which only belongeth to the Church of CHRIST Thus if the man had takeÌ„ his worcke before him and proued as he had gonne happely his triumphant conclusions would not so sast haue followed Then should he haue had lesse to feare and more to reioyce of his doings wheras now his reckonyng iudgment are yet behinde But if Mr. GIFFARD would vouchsalf to take his aduersaries into the field with him before the fight and giue them leaue to bring and vse their owne vveapons then seing he vvill needes haue the question now generall of the whole Church of England and our argument after a scholastical maner let yt be thus touching this Second Transgression Where all the prophane and vngodly are receiued into and reteined in the Church as members therof there cannot be said the true established Church of CHRIST But in the Church of ENGLAND all the prophane multitudes vngodly of the land were receiued into are reteined in their Church as members therof Therfore the Church of ENGLAND in this estate cannot be saide the true established Church of CHRIST THe first Proposition is coÌ„firmed through the whole Bible from the beginning to the end The Church of God hauing alwaies consisted of a select peculiar people caled separated from the prophane of the worlde None entring into CHRISTS Church but by a voluntarie profession of their true faith and obedience Or standing longer there then they keepe the same faith obedience The second Proposition may be proued by way of argument thus Where all were receyued into the Church without any separation at the first gathering therof and they haue not the power of CHRIST to caste forth any by orderly excoÌ„munication there all the prophane multitudes may iustly be said to be receiued into and reteined in the bozome and bodie of the Church But in the Church of England al the prophane multitudes of the land were together without difference or separation receiued into the Church neither haue they the power of CHRIST orderly to cast forth any by true excommunication Therfore al the prophane multitudes are truly said to be receiued into and to be reteined in the bozome and bodie of their Church This aucthor his two exceptions to the first Proposition of the repelled from the Sacraments and such is depart of them-selues no waye diminish the truth or hynder the course therof For the suspended they still remaine members of their Church For such Papists Hereticks Schismaticks as depart of themselues though they ought also to be cast out by orderly Excommunication yet are they not nor can be in this their Church so cast out howe infectious and wicked soeuer they be because they haue not the power and excommunication of CHRIST amongst them So that nowe all the controuersie wil be about the second Proposition whether the Church of England haue receaued in al the prophane whether yt haue the power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST to cast forth any by true excommunication Thus far forth it is manifest cannot be denyed That the whole land eueÌ„ al the Queenes subiects at the beginning of ouer Queene ELISABETHES reigne were all at one instant receyued as members into this Church this Ministrie Worship Sacraments Ordinance c set ouer them indifferently Since al their seede without exception of any whether Papiste Heretick Atheist Witch Coniurer c are baptized in this their Church What then should let vs to affirme and conclude That all the prophane of the lande are receyued into the bodie of bozome of this Church if so be that there then were at the beginning of her Maiesties reigne or now are anie prophane in the land Wherfore he must either mainetayne that there haue not beene since this our Queenes reigne and now presently are not any prophane open vngodly in the land Or ells coÌ„fesse his Church guiltie of this Transgression for receyuing in al the wicked prophaâ—e into their Church Neither wil all the Deuils sophistrie his raâ—ling accusing blaspheming of Christs faithful seruantes witnesses of heresie intrusion into Gods iudgmeÌ„t seate sauadge and desperate rending vp the Lordes tender plantes yea of whole christian assemblies help the matter excuse him or chardge vs. We hold al such prophane as either are not yet come to the true faith obedience of Christ by outward profession or are departed from the true faith and obedience of CHRIST remayning obstinate and hardned in transgression or error And this second sort although the Church should neglect or refuse to cast them out by excommunication We hold that only such as voluntarily make a true profession of faith and vowe of their obedience and
Lorde then hath their Churche of England also occasion to reioyce But if the Prophets euerie where haue denownced the fearefull iudgments of God against them then will not their false Prophets vntempered plaisters and lying diuinations of peace help them in that daye BVt nowe Mr. GIFFARD procedeth to the second part of th'assumption which he first forged and now refuteth in our name Wherin he wil needs make vs to say though it neuer entred into our thought That their Church of England hath no power to caste forth anie by excommunication and herein he saith we speake verie falslie For the Church of England hath some power to excommunicate We haue alreadie shewed how he hath chaunged and falsified our reason leauing out altering what he liste and taking no more of yt then he thought himself able to deale withal But if he had made his answere to our wordes as he receaued them then he should haue proued that the Church of England especially those select congregations whose Pastors vsed to repel the vnworthy from the Sacraments had the power of our Lord Iesus Christ to caste forth by true excommunication before he had chardged vs with lyes or absurdities FOr vs we neuer doubted or denied that their Church of England had power to excoÌ„municate eueÌ„ that power throne and great authority which the Dragon gaue the Beast We take their excommunication to be the self same which was vsualy exercised in this land in the tyme of Poperie doÌ„ne by the same Officers Courtes as the Bishop the Arch-Deacon or Commissarie In latine in maner of a write in the Bishops sole name and that not for anie offence transgression of Gods lawe or heresie how pernitious damnable and detestable soeuer but only for contumacye or contempt of their Courts As for not appearing or not paying such mulctes and exactions as those Birdes with â—ingers enioyne exact Vnto al this busines is neither the parish-Priest Questmen SidemeÌ„ or anie of the parish caled yt nothing concerneth them The Priest he must of force pronownce yt and the parish allowe of yt how vniust soeuer yt be or disorderly donne This is the only excommunication of the Church of England other then this they haue not THis Popish thunderbolt canot be defended or mistakeÌ„ for that holie reuerend Excommunication giuen by God vnto and vsed in the Church of CHRIST against euerie obstinate offender vnpartially orderly according to the rules thervnto prescribed the whole Church with one consent in the name power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST giuing vp such a one vnto SATHAN for the destructioÌ„ of the flesh that the spirit might be saued in y e daye of the Lord and this publiquely in the opeÌ„ church when the whole CongregatioÌ„ is gathered together Neither may such excommunicat be receaued againe but of the whole Congregation vpon his publique repentance in the assemblie IT were needles to demonstrate the moÌ„strous abuses of this their popish excoÌ„munication in perticular and how contrarie yt is in euery pointe vnto the ordinance of CHRIST seing this may readily be donne of the reader by comparing their descriptions together especially seing this aduersarie himself dare not vndertake the defence therof But saith that though their excommunication doth not binde in heauen yet yt is of force to remoue from the societie of their assemblies which proueth our accusation false because we reason about this outward remouinge Verie good but may this outward remouing or casting out of the Church be without the power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST or by any other power Or are not such as are caste out by the power of CHRIST bownde in heauen Can any other power in heauen or in hel separate any of God his childeren from the loue of CHRIST and cut off any of CHRISTS members from his bodie Or may the Church be subiect touching these spirituall iudgmentes aud censures to anie other power or voyce then vnto the power and voyce of CHRIST execute or confirme anie other iudgments then thâ— indgmentes of Christ Or may any mortal man thus presume into the verie throne and office of CHRIST Doe not al the Elders in the Church of God caste downe their crownes before the throne of the Lambe Do not all the Sainctes execute ratifie all the iudgments of God that are written How then dare these Lucifers these POPES rather then popish Bishopps thus presume to bring in this popish excommunication in place of Christes and thereby in their owne romish courtes name and power without due order or cause without the consent or priuity of the Congregation or anie of the Congregation to cut off and caste out of the Church at their pleasure Or how dare these wicked priestes pronownce these accursed antichristian excommunications and expel from their publique exercises prayers and sacraments such excommunicate Or the parrish thus receaue and ratifie this diuelish proceding Is it to be thought that that man which either taketh this for Christs or christian excommunication knoweth what christian excommunication is and what it is to cut off anie member of Christ Or thincketh he to hide the horrible tyrannie and blasphemie of the Bishops or his owne fellowe Priests perfidâ—e and treason in yeilding his flocke vnto these greiuous wolues or the miserable seruitude spiritual bondage of their whole Church that thus are held wittingly stand vnder Antichrists yoke by caling yt an outward remouing Is it not all the exommunicatioÌ„ their Church hath Doth it not remoue from the publique exercises prayers SacrameÌ„ts of their Church c And would he make vs belieue that this is but an outwarde remouing hath the Church of Christ anie other or furder power theÌ„ outwardly to remoue from their fellowâ—hip and communion Or may their Church outwardly remoue anie by publique censure from their prayers sacraments c and yet the partie excommunicate be in this estate esteemed a member of Christ or they haue anie communion with him Then this excommunication of theirs being founde a meere popish forgerie and presumptuous blasphemie directlie contrarie in euerie poynte to the rules and institution of Christ cannot be saide to binde in heauen because God ratifieth nothing there whether it be donne by maÌ„ or Angel but what he here coÌ„maundeth and we doe according to the rules of his worde This then being so contrarie to the worde of God cannot be ratified in heauen and so it is apparant not to be donne in the power of our Lorde IESVS CHRIST but in the power of Antichrist Sathan Their Church therfore hauing none other excommunication then this cannot be said to haue the power of Christ to caste out anie by true orderly excommunication And seing they do exercise this popish blasphemous excommunication which is not donne in the power of Christ we may iustlie conclude that their Church doth caste forth Sathan in the power of Sathan to which power their whole Ministerie and people stand and contynue
so were it againe a most monstruous confusion high rebellion on the other side if the people should thus expulse and shut out their gouernours and guides those most fit members that God hath giuen them to these actions from amongst them and then decide and determine causes by pluralitye of voyces What can be deuised more barbarous and vnworthie the Church of CHRIST then this Were not this as if the bodie should offer violence vnto or laye aside the eyes and then diuide yt self into factions and partes for the busines yt hath to doe This balloting by suffrage or plurality of voyces might well be a custome amongst the heathen in their popular gouernmentes but yt is vnhearde of and vnsufferable in the Church of CHRIST whatsoeuer some dreame vnto themselues therof There all from the highest to the lowest in all actions enquire the will of God which being knowen they all then walke by the same rule and with one consent doe the will of God accordingly There is no diuision in that bodie neither anie thing donne according to the will of man but according to the will of God only all hauing receiued of and being guided by one and the same spirit euen as God is one and CHâ—IST not yea and naye Now though all the members haue receiued of this spirit of God yet haue not all receiued in like measure Though all the bodie be light yet is not all the bodie an eye But God that hath made the bodie to consist of diuers members hath distributed diuers giftes in diuers measure vnto them Some he hath giuen Pastors some Teachers c for the helpe and seruice of the whole which members the whole bodie vseth according to their gifts office and function The whole bodie asketh instruction of their Teachers councel of their Elders c. The people are commanded to obey their leaders and to submit to acknowledge to honoâ— them and to haue them in super-aboundant loue These are of God set ouer the flocke to watche to instruct admonish exhort rebuke c yet not to plucke awaye the power liberty of the whole Church or to translate and assume the publicke actions of the whole Church into their owne handes alone They are men and may erre They themselues euen for al their doctrines and actions are subiect to the censure of the Church or of the least members of the Church if in any thing they be founde to erre or transgresse Yea if they remaine obstinate that Congregation wherof they remaine Ministers members is to procede against them to excoÌ„municate them as any other member For as it hath bene said the iudgments of the Church are not the iudgments of men but of God to which al the members of the Church must alike be subiect Which iudgmentes as they are committed to the whole Church with perfect rules for their maner of proceding in euerie circumstance so is the Church herevnto to vse such members as God hath giueÌ„ made most fit For Paule Apollo and Cephas are theirs And this doth no way diminish the power interest of the Church in this action Or translate these publick affaires froÌ„ the whole vnto these Elders whose couÌ„cel directioÌ„ and seruice the Church vseth herein no more then a Prince or State may be said not to doe those thinges wherevnto they vse the aduise seruice of their Councel By the Church then here we vnderstand euerie perticular Congregation subsisting of al the members Euerie of which Congregations hath equall interest in the worde promises iudgments and power of Christ. CHRIST hath giueÌ„ vnto al Churches the same testament ministrie lawes and ordinances with like chardge aucthoritie to obserue the same He hath giuen them the same order and communion in all places one and the same rule to walke by towardes them within the faith as also to auoide cast out such as depart from the faith or walke inordinaâ—ly Neither hath CHRIST giuen vnto anie one Church more power or prerogatiue then vnto al other Or set one Church aboue ouer an other otherwise then to wish seke the good each of other of al to admonish exhort stirr vp each other as occasioÌ„ requireth And vnto this euerie member of Christ is also bounde in his caling but not to intrude encroach vpon the publicke actions duties of the whole Church or the perticular functions offices of others As to Pastors Elders their office extendeth but vnto those flockes wherof the holy Ghost hath set theÌ„ Ouerseers and not vnto all Churches in this maner to which their ministrie neither doth nor can extend Agayne ExcoÌ„munication is no part of their ministrie Neither hath God tyed it vnto the office of any but left it a publick dutie of the whole Congregation to be donne of al with one coÌ„sent How presumptuous then is he y t vsurpeth this power ouer yea of other CongregatioÌ„s to excoÌ„municate absolue elect depose c for them yea that thus plucketh froÌ„ them that power chardge which Christ hath giuen vnto them But how monstruous intollerable were the pride of that Consistory which consisting but of a few perticular members shal assume the power duties of so many Churches into their owne handes We are of minde that the best and learnedst of them shall finde their owne perticular offices in their owne perticular flockes as much as they can well performe and dischardge though they should not thus encroach vpon and assume the publick duties of the whole Church much lesse of mâ—nie Churches And sure if this Consistory should duely intend all the seueral occasions complaintes and matters of offence that howrely arise in so manie sondrie Congregations especially where all the multitudes are receiued in as members they should doe nothing ells through their whole life but sit in this Consistory yea their whole liues would not suffice to a litle part of this chardge where al th'offences of these multitudes both publick and priuate were duly admonished and prosecuted according to the commandement of God And so should these Pastors Elders neuer be able to exercise their owne ministri officers in those peculiar CongregatioÌ„s where they are chosen to serue Againe if euerie Congregation should be thus posted ouer and sent to this Consistory for the censuring of euerie peâ—ticular offence offender howe manifest soeuer c manifold inconveniences and mischieues would thervpon ensue As that they must be driuen oft-tymes to receaue and ioyne vnto the most wicked abhominable in their prayers sacraments yea if the Pastor himself should fal into some sinne heresie they must of force suffer him to administer vntill this Consistory had caste him out Many were the reasons more the inconveniences that might be alleadged against this presumptious irregular Consistory which hath no grownde in the worde of God but vtterly
administration of prohibition from the Sacraments The vanitie and follie of this idole suspension most plainely appeareth vnto al men by the litle good it doth in anie of these Parrishes where al prophanenes and iniquitie stil aboundeth The Bishop his Chauncelor or Commissary may with one worde of their mouth heale the greatest wounde the Parrish-Priest can make with this Suspension whatsoeuer Mr. Parson saye They haue power to absolue anie that he bindeth and how cheape their absolutions are is not vnknowē to anie whore master in al the Parrish The Bishop hath power to make and to depose Ministers at his pleasure he hath power ouer the whole ministration he prescribeth howe whē to whom they shal administer What truth then is in these wordes that the Bishop cannot take away that power which their seruice-booke giueth them when he may absolue the partie disanul the suspension depose the Minister c. In that he saith the Bishop is but a Minister and no Lord ouer their faith and conscience The same will euerie Popish Priest say of their soveraigne Lorde the POPE to preserue the dignitie of their ministerie The POPE writeth himself but the seruant of the seruants of God What Lordlie authoritie the Bishop hath exerciseth and in what seruile subiection the Priestes all the Parishes stand vnto their Courtes iurisdiction shal hereafter more appeare when we come to the discussing of those poyntes In the meane while we willingly assent vnto Mr. GIFFARD that the christian reader shall iudge whether their seruice-booke be not a fit Portesse for such Priestes and this suspension a fit toole for such worckmen Still affirming euen with wonder that if the iudgmentes of God were not vpon their right eye and vpon their right arme they might perceaue how their Lordes the Bishops dresse them and how this weapon they allowe them wanteth both edge and poynte c. Thus hauing finished his answeare to our assumption he procedeth to a former answeare where he denied the Consequence That where wicked prophane men are receiued into reteyned in the bozome of the Church there the couenant is disanulled with them and they are no longer Godes people but a false antichristian Sinagogue To disproue this he alleadged that there were but fewe true worshippers that frequented the Temple amongst multitudes of prophane vngodly men To this he now addeth the examples of the Church at Corinth and of the seuen Churches in Asia c. We before answeared stil answeare that there is no comparison betwixt or Argument to be drawen from those Churches which were rightly gathered established and these confused Bibilonish Synagogues of theirs The Israelites were a peculiar separated people vnto the Lorde from the worlde The people of these other Churches were wonne caled and gathered vnto CHRIST by the preaching of the Gospel euery one entred into the Church by the voluntarie professiō of his owne faith No vncircumcised or Gentile might enter into the Temple to offer any gift there All nor yet the greater part of the Citie of Corinth nor of these other parts of Asia were not receiued into the Church as members But here in their Church of England al the whole land is receiued in and that immediatly from open idolatrie without any voluntarie professiō of their owne faith by the people in perticular yea without the preaching of the Gospel going before to call them vnto the faith Therfore in these reasons he but beggeth the questiō and assumeth that which he ought to proue Namely That these multitudes of all the prophane al sorts of wicked persons were sometymes rightly gathered vnto and entred couenant with the Lorde hauing the true ministrie gouernement of CHRIST set ouer them and nowe being fallen into some sinnes are not cast out but stil retayned in their Church This if he had donne then had there bene some cause y ◠he might haue brought against vs th'examples of these Churches Then should not we haue needed to haue shewed him his follie twise Yet this if he had donne the contrarie wherof is manifest to al that remember the beginning of her Maiesties raigne or but behold the present estate in the same or rather in more confusion sinne being more encreased Yet then we should easily haue put difference betwixt those Churhes that amēded at the Apostles admonition and these which reiect all the rules ordinances ecclesiastical of CHRISTS Testament as pernitious and intollerable to th'estate of this land and persecute al such as admonish them of and will not partake with them in their idolatrie sacriledge WE also in our former writing shewed him how the faithfull seruants of God in the idolatrous dayes of Kinge ACHAS MENASSE AMON IEHOIAKIM c refrayned from the Temple being so polluted and defiled and mixed not themselues with the wicked in idolatrous worship This Mr. GIFFARD confesseth to be true and that it was theire duetie so to doe But he saith we do not argue whether the godly did ioyne with the wicked in idolatrie but whether the wicked were suffred and did ioyne with the godlie in true worship To the question we haue aboue spoken Only this by the waye we drawe from his owne confession That if the godly in those dayes did wel in separating from not cōmunicating with the wicked in those times of publick idolatrie then cānot we be blamed which separate withdrawe our selues from these prophane assemblies where such abhominable idolatrie and sacriledge is publickly vsed and enforced as we haue aboue proued and thus are we by him cleared and iustified Againe we convince him of his owne mouth thus If the faithfull did well in those tymes to withdraw and separate themselues from the wicked in their idolatrie which then was publickly set vp Then was not the publick estate of the Iewes in those tymes of vs to be held the true Church of God For the godly maie at no tyme separate from the true Church of God nor repayre vnto the false Church And thus by himself is an end put at once to all his cauils wherbie he hath endeuored to prooue the Iewes in these most corrupt tymes to be the true outwarde church of God and to accuse vs of heresie that affirme where such heynous transgressions are obstinatly defended persisted in by the whole Church there the Couenant vnto the iudgmēt of the faithful is disanulled there the faithful may not communicate And verie ignorant is Mr. Giffard if he thinck that the wicked and prophane may either be receiued into the Church or retayned in the Church as members The wicked prophane which were neuer entred into the Church may ought to be caled to heare the ministrie of the worde of God in the Church as the meanes wherbie they may be caled vnto the faith and so vpon their profession be receiued as members into the fellowship cōmunion of the Church But vntil they make open voluntarie
thought that all the communicantes at the Lordes Table had bene ioyned commingled together into one spiritual body euen into CHRIST as manie grapes are there bruzed into one cup manie graynes into one loafe Furder we had thought y t no obstinate offender whose sinne is publicklie knowen might haue beene admitted to that holie Table without wilful sacriledge and high prophanation of those holie mysteries both in all the Communicantes and in the Minister Wee reade in the lawe plentifullie That the leprous or polluted person defiled whatsoeuer touched him whether person vessel holie or ciuile c and that such person on vessel c remayned vnholie therebie vntil they were clensed according to the lawe The Prophet Haggai confirmeth the same and saith that whatsoeuer holie thing bread wyne or oyle a polluted person toucheth yt is made therbie vncleane The Apostle also sheweth in expresse wordes That as a litle leauen leaueneth the whole lumpe so one open vnworthie receiued to the supper of the Lorde maketh all the communicantes guiltie and their reioycing or feast not good before the Lord likening the whole Church to the lumpe the wicked person and sinnes kept amongst them to the leauen their reioycing to the eating of the Paschal c Which most direct place this ignorant sacrilegious Priest would put away and falsifie by likening this reioycing here spoken of to a glorying in the sinne of th' incestuous as though the Church of Corinth had euer bene so beastlie And by endevouring to separate the elements of the breade and wyne in this Sacrament from their mystical sense the communicantes that receiue the same together from their spirituall communion they haue one with an other the whole Church from the preparation and care they ought to haue both generally and perticularly in administring and receiuing the Sacraments And hauing thus royled the pure fountaynes he confowndeth the sense and distinct doctrines of the Apostle by bringing in certaine instances where the wife seruant passenger vpon some especial dueties and necessities may be occasion eate ordinarie bread with th' excommunicate Whervpon he concludeth that the faithful also may vpon necessitie as if the Church wil not caste out the open wicked and impenitent communicate with them in the supper of the Lorde And if so be these faithful mourne and are grieued for this wilful sacriledge of the Minister and the rest of the Church then they touche not their sinne but the holie thinges of God and are cleare Ezechell 9. because the separation from the wicked cannot alwaies be in bodie as in the cases by him alleadged of eating common breade with them But let this cauiller knowe that there is no comparison much-lesse anie consequence betwixt the eating common breade and the eating of the Supper of the Lorde with the open wicked and impenitent There is no such spiritual mysterie communion or commixture in the first as in the second Common bread is not forbidden the wicked but these holie pledges vtterlie are they ought not to be caste to hogges and dogges Neither are we forbidden al ciuile conversation so absolutelie with them as we are all spirituall communion In the one vve see prouision and exception made for duetie and necessitie In the other there is no such duetie or necessitie neither anie such prouision and exception mentioned in the Scripture vntil these Priestes to defend their port-sale and open sacriledge deuised these shiftes The scripture vtterlie forbiddeth and repulseth the open wicked impenitent from this holie banquet by more then the Cherubins shaking the edge of a sworde So far are the open wicked from being admitted to this feaste as they are to be caste out to be deliuered vnto Sathan so far are they to bee kept from all communion with CHRIST and with his Church But none are to be admitted to this Sacrament but such as outwardly stand in the faith and therby vnto the iudgment of the Church haue fellowship with CHRIST and his members The verie action or Symbole yt self sheweth this communion vvith CHRIST and one vvith an other 1. Corinth 10. 16. and 12. 13. No sophistrie can disioyne the mysterie or signification from the outward elements and action neither the communion from the participation in this action so far as vve may iudge As the vnworthie receiuers are guiltie of the bodie and bloode of the Lorde so the Church in admitting administring vnto and communicating vvith them is guiltie of most high sacriledge and prophanation of the holie thinges of God especially they doing it wilfullie and wittinglie Now then if they all communicate in this action and this action deliuered in this maner be sacriledge how should they not all be guiltie Can anie man here say that anie of the Communicantes in this case toucheth not the sinne but the holie thinges of God vvhen first in this action they are all spirituallie commingled and ioyned together then the verie action vvhich they all doe as they doe it is most highe sacriledge not a touching but an open if not a vvilfull prophanation of the holie thinges of God Can th' aucthoritie of the Church excuse them before God Or vvil it here excuse them to say they cannot doe vvith it because the power of the discipline is not in their handes We haue aboue shewed that euerie member hath interest in the power of the Church And that the power to receiue in and to caste out belongeth to the vvhole Church and not to the Presbiterie or anie perticular member of the Church onlie Neither yet these matters referred to the wil or choise of the Church but rules prescribed thē whom and vvhen to receiue whom and vvhen to caste out As vpon publick profession of faith and obedience with desire of ioyning the Church cannot refuse but must receiue so vpon publicke sinne and obstinacie ioyned to the same the Church must then caste out and cānot retaine without sinne Which sinne becommeth so much the more heynous whē they doe it wittinglie willinglie but most of al whē obstinacie is added whē the Church wil not be admonished neither amēd Though euerie private member cānot excommunicate or reforme the publicke actions of the Church which are donne contrarie to the worde yet euerie priuate member may ought to refraine such publick actions as they see to be contrary to the worde and to admonish the Church c. And in so doing they depart not from the Church neither withdrawe from the Communion so much as preserue the Church the communion Our fellowship must alwaies be in the faith out of the faith we maie haue no communion with man or Angel in knowen sinne They that depart from the faith depart from the Church and breake the cōmuniō We may not followe a multitude or the mighty in euil It behoueth euerie christian that receiueth to knowe what the action is he doeth to knowe what he receiueth and howe he receiueth to knowe by
whom and with whom he receiueth We say not now as some in the idlenes of their conceipt coniecture that we ought to examine and iudge euerie one that communicateth No it sufficeth vs if they by outward profession stand stil members and remaine not conuict and impenitent in anie open sinne knoweÌ„ to them and to the congrâ—gation They must knowe that the Minister that deliuereth is according to the outwarde rules so far as they maie iudge a lawful Minister of the Gospel and that the communicantes by outward professioÌ„ so far as they can iudge stand in the faith Ells can they not discerne what the communion of the Church or the action they doe is It wil not suffice or excuse them to saye they mourne and are grieued for the sinnes of the wicked with whom they communicate and for the sinne of them that should put them from the Sacrament yea caste them out of the Church and deliuer them ouer vnto Sathan for the humbling their flesh and the preservation of others from the contagion of their sinne yea of the whole Church from the wrath of God How should they be said to mourne for the sinne of these wicked with whom they feast and reioyce in this heauenly banquet From whence al sorrowe and grief and feare despaire or doubt are banished al teares wiped from their eyes they being by this Symbole receiued to the communioÌ„ of Christes bodie and of al the ioyes which he possesseth hath prepared reserued for al those for whom he died c against whom layeth no accusation no condemnation no imputation of sinne Againe the mourners he speaketh of which were marcked by the Angel Ezech. 9. did not onlie mourne but crye out against the sinne of the tyme yea they refrayned the publick worship the Temple which was so wholy polluted and prophaned as is described in the 8. Chapter of the same prophâ—cie the fierce wrath of God powred forth vpon the whole Citie and Sanctuarie Chap. 9. The glorie of God vtterlie departed from the Temple and Citie Chap. 11. But how should these that communicate are commingled with these open wicked and vnworthie and participate and ioyne in the sinne and sacriledge of the ministrie which they see and acknowledge be said of those marcked mouâ—ners which refrayned cryed out against the abhominations of the tyme Or how should these eâ—kape the vengeance of the destroyer The seale of God wherwith al CHRISTES servants are marcked and knowen is That they that name the name GOD depart from iniquitie 2. Timoth. 2. 19. Reuel 14. They may not coÌ„municate with the sinnes of others nor be draweÌ„ into the transgression of any of GODS commaundements by an Angel from heauen Gal. 1. No traditional writings of any man whosoeuer can defend these errors which tend to the open wilful prophanatioÌ„ of the holy things of God to the most dangerous contagion and infection of the whole Church and to the high prouocation of Gods wrath against them all What then hath this great clarck gayned by this traditional diuinitie saue bewrayed his corrupt iudgment great ignorance of the truth of God yea even of those principal actions wherof he professeth himself a Minister What hath he obtayned or endeuoured by al this discourse to prooue if not that all these prophane multitudes and rowtes of all sortes of wicked may be receiued into and nourished in the Church as members even with the holie pledges of CHRISTES bodie bloode by this idolatrous and sacrilegious ministrie for so hauing alreadie proued them we may pronownce them made by themselues labouring to iustifie approue their Church ministrie and ministration in this estate and most seuerely to censure blaspheme and condemne all such as by the word of God reproue them and for their obstinacie forsake them for the same thus opening a wide doore to all Atheâ—sme wickednes impietie sacriledge and bloodie persecution as by his next argument which he bringeth for a conclusion of this discourse appeareth Which before we come vnto this for conclusion we insert rest vpoÌ„ That our Sauiour CHRIST hath instituted that of necessitie there must be at the celebration of his last Supper a lawful Minister of the gospel according to the rules of CHRISTES Testament to deliuer a faithful people by outward professioÌ„ to receiue the pure elementes coÌ„manded vsed and that forme of administration which he and his Apostles prescribed That except al these concur there is not the sacrament rightly deliuered neither maie any christian coÌ„municate where he seeth any of these rules broken So then if Mr. GIFFARD had thus approued his Ministerie people ministration by the rules of CHRISTES Testament and by the euidence of Gods worde he should more haue persuaded convinced vs then by al this opprobrie blasphemie and rage which he breatheth forth out of the mouth of that DRAGON al which nowe add vnto his owne and not vnto our iudgments that feare not the curse causeles neither yet the false Prophets threates whose custome it is to curse them that God blesseth and to blesse them that God curseth to iustifie the wicked and to condemne the iust Therfore shall he be an abhomination both to God an men as the Lorde himself hath spoken As to his bloodie Argument drawen from th'executioÌ„ of certaine of SAVL his progenie because Kinge SAVL in his hypocritish and bloodie zeale murdered the Gibeonites which were yeilded and made slaues vnto them contrarie to the will and commandement of God Ihosh 8. Deutronomie 20. 10. Our innocencie shalbe our defence and his refutation If we haue committed or when we shall commit or consent vnto any such crime we refuse not the like iudgment In the meane time let all men iudge with what equitie or conscience this Cainiâ—e could thus applie enforce this example against vs And for conclusion let anie man by the worde of God iudge whether we that reprooue these their confuse parish assemblies consisting of all sortes of ignorant prophane vngodlie people worshipping God after an idolatrous maner and liuing in al disorder vngodlines c Or this mercenarie sacrilegious Priest that standeth a Minister to all these wicked deliuering the sacraments vnto them and blessing them with the peace of God c doe destroy murder their soules The scripture is plentiful in this poinct THE THIRD PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION OR CAVSE OF OVR SEPARATION FROM their assemblies is FOR that they haue a false antichristian ministrie imposed vpon them retained with them and maintained by them AS we haue already shewed y t the house of God which is his church cannot be built or consiste of any other then such chosen pretious liuing stones as God hath thervnto caled separated appointed namely such faithfull obedient willing people as come vnder CHRISTS conduct and willingly submit to his gouernment and cannot consiste of prophane wicked vngodly headstrong disobedieÌ„t multitudes whereon the Whore is said to
they haue left as an absolute patterne for al actions of the Church vnto the worlds end and to hold them accursed men or Angels that teach any thing besides that or to varie from the same Neither what signes or miracles soeuer they shall doe may we hold them Propheâ—s seing they persuade yea enforce to idolatrie apostasie as by their publick worship appeareth And as to Euangelistes that office is too meane base for these fellowes The Euangelistes toke their caling sending and whole directioÌ„ from the Apostles neither swarued from the same in any thing but faithfully deliuered to the Churches those rules they receiued and assisted theÌ„ in the practize therof These men in that they haue no such caling to their office neither doe so execute yt not caling the Church vnto or helping them in but drawing them from vtterly forbidding them the practize of those rules ordinances the Apostles left teaching bringing in setting vp and inforcing their owne or other humane deuises ordinances vpoÌ„ y e church in stead therof and that in such high waightie matters as the bringing in a new strange Ministrie Ministration Worship and Gouernement For all which causes reasons many other which might be drawen from the rules of CHRISTS Testament and their whole worke and doings which in nothing accordeth to the true patterne we must hold them false Apostles and Prophets counterfeite Euangelistes deceiptful worckmen builders Neither yet if we but as fleightly examine them by compare them vnto the rules of Christes Testament shall we finde them to execute any of the ordinarie permanent offices of the Bishops belonging vnto Christes Church as the Pastors Teachers Elders office A true christian Pastor ought to be chosen of some one peculiar flocke where after due proofe he is to be publickly ordeined receiued Vnto which peculiar flocke he is bownde by couenaÌ„t to administer attend Neither doth his Pastorall dutie ministrie and chardge extend to more flockes or Churches at one tyme then that one wherof he is chosen Pastor Neither may a true Pastor aduance himself either in titles or power aboue or ouer other christian Pastors his fellowe bretheren howsoeuer he haue receiued a greater measure of giftes by so much he ought to behaue himself the more lowly and to apply himself the more carefully diligently to serue the Lord with the same according to his pleasure appoinctment within the limites of his caling wherin if he behaue himself faithfully he receiueth praise if not reproofe censure of the whole flock accordingly But now these Arch and Lord Bishops neither haue any certaine ministrie ouer or in any one peculiar flocke neither anie such 〈…〉 by or in any one Congregation but are elected either by the 〈◊〉 Colledge of the Deane Chapter or ells by the Prince consecrate invested inthronised or instawled with I know not how manie popish rites trincketes ceremonies belonging thervnto whose verie ordinarie attire is so popish ridiculous and fâ—nde as they passe not in the streates without the wonderment skorne of young and olde Their ministerie also is not limited and tyed to one certaine office or to one certaine flocke but as they exercise sondrie offices so doe they it ouer in sondrie Churches preaching administring the Sacraments where and when they liste of their pontifical aucthoritie and ceasing againe from preaching c. at their owne pleasures when how longe they list Againe some of them exerciseth absolute aucthoritie ouer al no one of them but ouer many hindreth Churches Ministers ouer all causes and doctrines to cite sommon suspend silence excommunicate absolue emprison â—equester conâ—iscate at their pleasure whom and wherfore they liste without accompt or controlement no not by the Princes royall Writts and Courtes to which euery soule ought to be subiect They impose vpon all Churches and Ministers their owne deuises for the publicke worship administration stinting and limiting the Pastor what wordes to reade and say what scriptures to reade on this and that daye through the yeere They limite and restraine the doctrine of the Pastor from speaking against anie thing by publick aucthoritie commanded They determine and dispose of all the doctrines and causes of all Churches at their owne will no man so hardie to gaiâ—e say or to cal in question anie thing they affirme or to denie anie thing they commande or forbid There is nothing iudged error in the Church of ENGLAND but what they iudge to be error be yt neuer so grosse popish blasphemouse nor anie thing compted truth which they pronounce error be yt neuer so holy sounde and warranted by Gods worde The whole ministrie doctrine publick administration causes and censures of the Church of ENGLAND are wholie in their handes to commande restraine or execute vpon al persons and they themselues subiect to no reproofe liable to no censure Now let any iudge that knoweth what belongeth to the office entrance and administratioÌ„ of the Pastors office whether these Bishops possesse this office be rightly caled and entered to the same and faithfully administer execute the same The teachers office for the reasons aboue-said they cannot hold or chalendge both in regarde of the fastuous titles inordinate power and aucthoritie which they vsurpe exercise ouer all the ministerie euen such as they cal Pastors and ouer all Churches causes censures c which can at no hand be ioyned or agree vnto the christiaÌ„ Teachers office As also for that they their ministrie and office belongeth not to any one peculiar Congregation The like reasons maie be drawen from their Popish entrance and administration seing they take vpon them to deliuer the Sacraments and attend not vnto doctrine only or diligently giuing ouer ceasing to preach wheÌ„ they list neither submit the doctrines they teach to the ceÌ„sure tryal of other Prophets by the Scriptures For al which reasons and sondrie other they cannot be said to haue or exercise the christian Teachers office Last of al the office of gouerning Elders they haue not for all the same reasons In that they are not chosen of belong not vnto any perticular Congregation to which they should be bownde by duetie to attend Neither euer did we reade in al Christes Testament of any Bishops or Ministers setting aside those temporarie offices of Apostles Prophets Euangelists that where chosen did attend or minister vnto diuers or more then one Congregation or office at one time Certaine rules being there giuen for their election ordination and administration of in one Congregation with manifold admonitions exhortatioÌ„s to sture them vp vnto diligeÌ„ce labour and watchfulnes in that office place they are caled vnto as a worke enough for him that thinketh himself most able to dischardge it And sure most monstruous impossible it were for one man faithfully to attend diuers Congregations Except they can also
sometime of an other minde you must thincke it was before he had so neere friendship with or was imployed in such trustie seruices by his Lord of Londō Who as also his Lords grace must not be driuen to proue euerie thing they affirme that were enough to put young diuines vnto their pontifical mouth is sufficient warrant to all the Churches in England Yet I would of their curtesie they would giue vs their Schismatiks that cannot be so satisfied leaue to doubt though we wil not contēd whether their Caling Consecration and this their Power first came not from the Pope For albeit we haue heard that the offices of Prouincial Bishops Arch Bishops Metropolitanes where almost when this general defection from the gospel so much foretold of began to breake out and appeare longe before the Pope obtayned his Supremacie ouer al other Churches and Ministers Yet might it be that this maner of their caling solemne consecration and lardge irregular power of his Lords Grace Lord Bishops sprong from their vnholie Father the Pope Who when he was inthronized by Sathan had receiued the Dragons high commission to be his Vicare general in earth could not of his fatherhoode but prouide for these his natural childrē and bestowe them in his garrison Cities as his Tetrarches Lieutenants Tribunes with magnificent titles priuiledges power and authoritie to rule in his name and absence euen as his owne engrauen image ouer all Realmes Countries Territories within their Fathers dominiōs For as we haue also crediblie hearde there was neuer a Lorde Arch-Bishop or Lorde Bishop with such titles priuiledges power hearde of before the Pope created them Notwithstanding because wee haue these thinges but bie hearesay and would be lothe to affirme of things so vnsure we wil content our selues to haue proued and shewed the Arch Lord Bisshops to be no true Ministers of the gospel and Church of CHRIST and therfore of themselues antichristian from whom or howsoeuer they rise it skilleth vs not Neither shall it auaile them though they haue broken their faith and schismed from the Pope cast off his yoke renownced his vsurped power and tyrannie when they themselues are rounde to vsurpe retaine and exercise if not the same yet as antichristian enormous a power as the Pope retayning the same Courts Officers Cannons constitutions priuileges ouer all Churches Ministers causes doctrines censures they themselues not being subiect to the censure of anie Church exercising their aucthoritie and commandementes contrarie vnto and aboue all lawes both of God and of their Prince whose Royall Courts and writts are not of power to baile anie one committed by the leaste of their hierarchie assuming vnto themselues both the swordes exercising together and at once both ciuile and ecclesiasticall offices c. How well they aduance the Gospel of CHRIST that blaspheme the same and pronounce the rules ordinances and ministrie therof intollerable and persecute all such as either speake against them or for yt Let the tyrannous hauocke they make in the common wealth of poore christians in the prisons of the land shewe How wel by the liuelie worde they cut downe all idolatrie heresies and popish abhominations let the seruice-booke and publick worship of their Churche shewe Which whilest with a stronge hande they obtrude vpon euerie conscience as also impose vpon the Church is not this to tyrannize and exercise a Lordship ouer the faith and conscience Or to speake as he doth is this nothing but to execute the external discipline to make and impose a newe Leitourgie for the whole administration of the Church Or is it likelie that this marcked Minister of ANTICHRIST knewe what the outward gouernment of CHRIST in his Church meaneth that saith yt concerneth not the conscience Is there anie more dreadful or reuerend action on earth amongst men then the iudgmentes of CHRIST in his Church which are al most holie and true Or doe not these concerne the conscience Doth not euerie action of which there are such certaine lawes set by CHRIST himself nearelie concerne the conscience to doe it according to the same when the least abuse neglect or swaruing from the rule euen in the least circumstance that is enioyned in the least censure doth so deface the action is so offensiue preiudicial do not those actions which are donne for the saluation of soules that are said to binde in heauen not concerne the conscience Or doe not those rules which are giuen for the direction and preseruation of the publick communion of the whole Church and priuate conuersation of euerie member therof without the obseruation of which rules there can be no order no dutie either publick or priuate no holie walking in anie caling kept concerne the conscience Except Mr. Giffard can imagine such a Congregation and such members therof as either neuer sinne and so need no watching ouer admonition reproof Or ells such a Church and members therof as make no conscience of anie thing as when they sinne will not amend wil not heare admonition or suffer reproof which is the meanes giuen of God to bring them to amendement Yet Mr. Giffard maketh this holie outward gouernment of CHRIST ouer and in his Church not to concerne the conscience the myserable diuines of this age not to be of necessitie to the beeing and preseruation of a Church the blasphemous Bisshops of this land not to be a thing tollerable with manie other reprochfull blasphemies of the same which are not of anie christian almost to be hearde or repeated much lesse pronounced and defended These husbandmen are they that caste the Sonne and heyre out of the vineyarde that wil not haue him reigne ouer them but take the regiment into their owne hands deuising and erecting a newe forme of gouernement vnto the Church as these their popish Courtes Cannons Customes Officers declare and persecuting with al hostility and tyranny all such as pleade for Christes gouernement and wil not subiect their bodies and soules vnto their antichristian yoke But yet for all this they exercise no Lordship ouer the faith and conscience though they vsurpe exercise and impose this strange ministrie ministration and gouernement in and ouer the Church All this saith Mr. Giffard is but th'administration of exernall discipline and concerneth not the conscience especiallie if it be seared with a whote Iron as Mr. Giffard is Wherfore we doe impudentlie and wickedlie sclander when wee therfore conclude that the Bishops be antichristian and whosoeuer is ordayned by them hath his ministrie from Antichrist and from the Deuil What kinde of ministrie your Lord Bishops exercise and aucthoritie they vsurpe by that which is alreadie written the reader may iudge or at leaste hath a direct way shewed furder to examine What kinde of rule they keepe or as you call it discipline they execute remaineth to be tryed in the fourth principal transgression Where if you make not a better defence for it then you haue donne for their
Ministrie and ministration they are all like to proue as wee haue affirmed them strange false forged antichristian such as belong not vnto and cannot be exercised in anie christian Church and then let Mr. Giffard see whether that grieuous conclusion will follow and fal vpon the men vpon whom the marcke of the Beast is â—ownde that ministrie which is ordayned by proceded from and standeth vnder the throne of these antichristian Bishops In the meane while let vs in a verie few wordes consider of the rest of the ministerie in the Church of England in their order WE would gladly learne of him what office in the Church of God Chancelors and Commissaries may be said to exercise for we confesse that in Christes Testament we neuer read of their names or offices they are strangers there and we in all the worlde knowe not from whence they came or who brought them into the Church if not their Father the Pope or durste there retaine them but these his children successors the Bishopps A lardge power they haue and exercise ouer all parrish Churches their Ministers and Members to keepe a iudiciall Courte to cite coÌ„uent trie punish by muâ— ct iudge imprison absolue purge not only for ecclesiastical causes as the neglect of their ceremonies and trinckets and for not duelie reading and obseruing their iniunctions seruice-booke but also for ciuile causes yea criminatory and iudicial causes such as by the lawe of God deserue death and only belong to the Princes royall aucthoritie to whom therfore God hath committed his sworde Whose iudgment seate aucthoritie for anie priuate person to vsurpe is iudged rebellion both by the lawe of God and of this land For all that take the sworde shall dye in the sworde Math. 26. 52. Againe these Chauncelors and Commissaries are Ciuilians laye men as they cal them not Priestes therfore we meruaile how they came to exercise such an high ministrie ouer and in the Church The same we say of their other delegate ciuile Doctors of their Courtes trayne of Aduocates Proctors Registers c. We finde in the TestameÌ„t of Christ no mention in the Church of Christ no vse of such Offices Officers Courtes to decide their coÌ„trouersies to execute their censures iudgments These handle both ecclesiastical and ciuile causes mixtlie after a most corrupt and litigious maner amongst whom al things are venal in their Courtes c wherof in due place sufficeth it here to finde them in name office and vse counterfeit forged false without mention or warrant in Gods worde such as not Christ but Antichrist deuised brought in As to the persons in their high commission they are of two sortes chieflie ecclesiastical and partlie for countenance and fashion sake ciuile Of the ecclesiastical we haue aboue entreated Neither finde wee that anie ciuile person may exercise anie ecclesiastical office or function as to ouer-see so manie Churches to decide and determine ecclesiastical causes or to execute the censures of the Church as by way of office or by vertue of anie humane commission especially after that vngodlie maner which is in al things so contrarie to the order Christ hath instituted so contrary to the faith power and libertie of Christes Church as were not hard to shewe if we should examine their procedings by the rules of Gods worde And great ruth it is that so noble and honorable personages should be so highly abused by these wicked Bishops The Lorde in mercie shew them their deceipts the error and daunger of their wayes Yet of this gouerning ministrie remayneth the Arch head Deacon of the Church of England to be considered of who is no smale officer of this Church hauing and keeping his solemne iudiciall Court Synode and procedings in such ecclesiastical causes as fal within his consideration with absolute power in his owne name also to cite sommon iudge and punish all such parish Churches with their Parsons and Ministers as fal within his limites To impose taskes vpon Pastors what scriptures to reade priuately euerie daye what to conne by heart and to take accompt of them at his Synodes accordingly This Arch-Deacon also if such be his learning that he can may administer the worde and Sacramentes and haue a benefice or two for neede Howsoeuer he may pleade and boaste of his antiquitie aswell as the Arch-Bishop and of the great cause of his erection and necessarie vse of his office c. Yet seing we finde no mention of his name or vse of his office in all the Testament of CHRIST seing we finde there no such Heade Arch-Deacons with such stately Courtes and absolute iutisdiction and that not ouer many Deacons but manie of their Pastors yea manie whole Churches we must or rather the Lorde hath giuen the same sentence of them that is giuen of their fellowes aboue-said That they are not the ordinance or ministrie of CHRIST but of Antichrist euen the heades and limbes of that Beaste that wilbe held within no limites or boundes in no order or callings but breake corrupt and confounde all lawes boundes order and offices as they luste CHRIST himself is the only heade of all his Ministers whether Pastors Teachers Deacons c and they againe his members of their part The christian Deacon is to attend to the faithful collection and distribution of the benâ—uolence of the Sainctes and not to such Court-keeping ouer the Church ministrie and Sainctes He is to attend in his function to that peculiar flocke wherof he is chosen a Deacon and not in this maner to intrude and incroach vpon manie Churches A christian Deacon is to kepe himself within the boundes of his owne office in sobrietie and not to intermeddle with the Pastors office also with the ministration of the worde and sacramentes yea to exalt himself and vsurpe power and iurisdiction ouer his superiors not only ouer many Pastors but ouer manie whole Churches Thus haue we taken a superficiall veiwe or rather as yt were a sodaine blush of the reigning Ministerie of the Church of England leauing the furder inuestigation and demonstration of the manifold deformities therof to their furder diligence to whom God hath giuen greater knowledge and opportunitie leauing place also vnto Mr. GIFFARD or anie of that false hierarchie to make defence and iustification of these poyntes wherin they are here chardged by the worde of God Which if they can doe then let them be held excused and vs iustly chardged with impudent and wicked sclander In the meane while I haste to the second sort of their Ministrie THe next sorte of the ministrie of the Church of England is the Collegiat or idle Ministrie which may be diuided or rather distinguished because sometimes they are mixed ioyned one man being a master of a College and a Deane a fellowe of a house a Prebend and each of them haue a Parsonage or two for a neede into these two kindes Academical and Cathedral The third sort
conscience botchers these Preachers of the Gospell to winne and keepe credite with the world How zealous in some place tyme auditorie where they may be wel backed they wil seeme against some triffles as though they were of most precise and vnstayned conscience And againe how luke-warme colde and backward they wilbe in the same poyntes at an other tyme place and auditorie How strange to the poore that shal desire their iudgmeÌ„t of some poynctes especially of these But cheiflie if any haue espied more light then they would they should and doe but make question of their ministrie worship Church c with what exquisite sleights they will seeke to drawe them backe as ruÌ„ning too farre too fast before their guides with what poysoned cauills to quench their zeale and spirite to pleade for and defend their sinne and apostasie These thinges to dicusse or but to shew in perticular with their due circumstances would require a longe and lardge discourse yea no booke were able to containe all their diuelish deuises and delusions which euen fill that flying volume the Prophet speaketh of Sathan hauing his fordge of all mischeife continually going amongst them Al which their dealings euidently shew what kinde of ministers and preachers of the Gospel they are Which drawe the people vnto and with their preaching keepe them in this defection apostasie from the Gospell which keep the people from and will not leade them to the sinceare practize of the Gospell but with their schole learning drawe a veale before CHRISTS face that the people might not see to the end of his ministrie neither discerne what CHRISTES will is for any action of the Church or to examine by the rules of CHRISTES Testament any thing by publick auâ—thoritie established Yea we see and haue shewed how they drawe the people vnto and themselues administer by an other Leiâ—ourgie then Christâ— Testament which prescribeth an other kinde of administration both to themselues and to the whole Church in all thinges then CHRIST hath prescribed We see haue shewed how they hold all the people vnder this more then Babilonish yoke of these antichristian Prelates their Courtes c and stand themselues the marcked Ministers sworne subiects and bond seruantes of these their Lordes haue fetched their ministrie licence to preach and their whole administratioÌ„ from them how they are prescribed stinted limited censured silenced deposed by them how they haue submitted and betrayed themselues Church Gospell Christ to these enemies Also what merchandize they make of their prayers Gospel preaching sacramentes selling all and themselues to for money What trafique they make of their benefices how they come by them and part from them how they haue in all thinges gonne astray forsaking the right waye hauing followed the waye of Balaam of Bâ—sor that loued the hire of vnrighteousnes and are in all thinges so throughly corrupted as they are the most bitter pestilent enemies of the kingdome of CHRIST and of the sinceare practize of the Gospel Deuising to themselues their miserable followers daily new errors bye pathes as faste as the old wherin they haue walked are discouered as any that will take the paynes to examine by the rules of the Scriptures their bookes of discipline and new formes of reformation or rather those antient primatiue defections which they seeke againe to reuiue shall perceiue For mie part I am euen irâ—ked to raue in this bottomlesse abysme of their iniquities which the more they are looked into still offer more matter of reproofe euen without end Wherfore I eueÌ„ with wearines here cease furder to speake of their corrupt administration hoping that by this alreadie said at the least vpon due examination therof it may appeare to al men that this their whole administration and preaching of the worde is altogether as corrupt and in all poynctes rightly fitteth vnto their antichâ—istian office entrance It now remayneth that we hast to and ouer their maintenance THE maintenance of the ministri of the Church of ENGLAND is of these fower sortes 1. Either by lordly reuenues with their royal rightes ciuill iurisdiction Courtes baron tenancies c belonging thervnto 2. Or by fees and pollages taysed rauened in their spiritual Courtes for iudging pleading solliciting writing fetching vp sommoning 3. Or by gleabes and tithes 4. Or ells by annual set stipendes The first forte of these we haue alreadie shewed to belong to Princes to ciuile Lordes and persons and to be vtterly vnlawful and forbidden to the ministrie of CHRIST Mr. Gâ—F his liberall maintenance or the ordinance of the Church cannot mainteine them Neither will that worde Philoxenos which they so lardgly stretch interpreat carrie half this pompe To the second sort we affirme these Courtes Officers Iudges Aduocates Proctors Registers Purseuantes Sommoners together with all their functions the orders of their Courtes maner of iurisdictioÌ„ pleading c where all thinges are pleadable if not vendible for money where al causes euen the most foule finde their aduocates colours defence delayes for mony c Al these spiritual Courtes officers iudgments pleadings customes we finde diuelish antichristian and not to appertaine to the Church kingdome of CHRIST but to belong to the kingdome throne of Antichrist and of the Beaste And therfore may conclude that they are the reuenues of sinne not to belong to the ministrie of CHRIST The third kinde these tithes we finde merely ceremoniall to haue bene ordayned for and belonged vnto the Leuiticall ministerie vnder the lawe We finde them an inheritance of the Leuites An offering of the people Therfore they cannot in this maner by lawe by tyed to the ministrie of CHRIST be made an inheritance vnto them an offring of the people vnto them For if there be a chandge of the Priest-hoode theâ— of necessitie must there be a chandge of the Lawe No part of the ceremoniall lawe or of those shadowes can be ioyned vnto the Gospell ministrie of CHRIST they or any part of them caÌ„not now be reuiued or retayned without the denial losse of CHRIST And how is the ceremoniall lawe abrogate whilest these tithes are in this maner allotted by lawe vnto the ministrie of the Gospell as an inheritance to them as an oblation of the people eueÌ„ as in former tyme vnto the Leuites The Princes coÌ„mandement or the Churches decree cannot alter the nature of these tithes to make them either ciuile or lawfull God was the aucthor of this law he made it ecclesiastical Man can neither chandge the propertie or y e end therof to make that ciuile that God hath make ecclesiastical Kinge EZECHIA coÌ„manded reuiued this lawe it became not therbie ciuile A godly Prince coÌ„mandeth al the lawes of the first Table all the ordinances of Christs Testament shall they therbie be made ciuile and no longer ecclesiastical or Gods lawes The decree of the Church also alleadged by Mr. G. sheweth it ecclesiastical for the Church
me the keper of the vineyardes mie vineyarde that to me I kept not The true interpretation whereof it here booteth not to stande vpon sufficeth that no antichristian yoke or bondage can from this place or from anie one worde therof be drawen and inforced But yet Mr. G. doth herein presse vs vvith these places of the songe in that the faithfull did not here separate themselues from vnder these euil pastors and gouernours as herestickes and schismatickes doe And this he againe proueth by th' example of our Sauiour and his Disciples who did not separate themselues from the high Priestes Scribes and Pharasies so long as the vineyarde was not takeÌ„ from them c. To which proof he hath in the SECOND TRANSGRESSION his ful answere To these places In the first the Church hath an absolute and direct commandemeÌ„t from God himself To goe foorth not to staye in the steps of that flocke to feed her kids aboue the tabernacles of those sheepheardes In the second we can but wonder to see Mr. G. so insensate grosse to imagine that these persecuting watchmen were Ministers or members of the true Church Especiallie seing the two Churches so liuelie in that place described The one malignant persecuting the other the true Church and persecuted Betweene which I weene there is as great a separation as betwixt light and darcknes betwixt hel and heauen Neither did the Church there staye with or was stayed by those watchmen but went to the Daughters of Ierusalem to seek and enquire for Christ much-lesse as this man doteth stayed in their fould in their tentes Or remayned vnder the gouernment and bondage of those persecuting watchmen that openlie opposed against Christ and could not endure that the Church should seek him Neither can anie thing be imagined more false or contrary to the argument of that heauenlie songe then that the Church of Christ may at anie hand beare or stand in anie bondage to the yoke of Antichrist Whose necke Christ adornes with chaynes and she againe her doore postes with garlandes for him Song 1. 9. 6. 13. Vnder whose heade CHRITES left hand alwaies is and his right hande embraceth her Song 2. 6. Song 3. Shee layethe holde of CHRIST and bringethe him into her Mothers house into the chamber of her that conceiued her There also is his bedde set vp muche more glorious then the marriage bedde of Salomon about which bedd sixtie valiant men of the mightie men of Israel are said to stand and guarde all of them handling the sworde expert in warre with his sworde vpon his thinge from the feare by might Song 4. The necke of the Church is likned to the tower of Daniel built for the armorie where a thowsand shieldes doe hange al the targetts of the stronge men And Song 8. Christ saith his vineyard is allwaies wholly before him he chalendgeth and gathereth al the revenues therof himself he diuideth them not nor imparteth thâ—m to anie other as Salomon or other earthlie Princes are constrayned to doe What part or right then what honor or homage especiallie what bondage is left here to Antichrist But thus they are broken that thus wilfullie of set purpose stumble at the worde as this man doeth YEt procedeth this graceles man furder And is not afraide to affirme That the Church euerie member therof is in some spiritual bondage to sinne and draweth an argument from this position That therfore much more may yt be in some outward bondage to Antichrist This execrable position and argument the holie Bishops and learned Priestes of England are coÌ„tent to let publiquelie passe from their viewe and correction because yt pleadeth for the antichristian vsurpation of the one and the seruile bondage of the other But when this argument shal neuer so litle by the worde of God be skanned yt shalbe found most heretical and blasphemouse For verilie if after our faith in Christ wee be now left in anie bondage to sinne then doth sinne stil liue and raigne in vs and we stil bounde vnto and with yt then hath not Christ fullie freed vs from the curse of the law Death and Hel. TheÌ„ was not Christes death a sufficient ransome for neither exteÌ„ded to al our sinnes neither hath he subdued or set vs free from al our enimies neither haue we as yet anie perfect peace or reconciliation with God And then was his comming vayne then can no flesh be saued therbie then must wee looke for an other redeemer or ells looke for him to come againe to dye for our sinnes that remaine and raigne in vs. For the rewarde of the least sinne is death being a transgression of Gods lawe And if wee be in bondage to sinne then are we not Kinges and Priestes vnto God Is not this a meete Minister of the Gospel that knoweth not yet the worck of our redemption the benefite of Christes death the priueledge of the Sainctes that cannot and will not learne to put difference betwixt the frailtie or pronenes to commit sinne which is in this mortal flesh of all the faithful and that bondage and subiection to sinne which is neuer founde in anie of the faithfull after they haue once trulie acknowledged and embraced Christ Howsoeuer the ministrie of the Church of England may allowe publish these doctrines yet are they most odious execrable to the soule and conscience of all that knowe feare or loue the Lorde IESVS CHRIST NOwe at length we are come to the second proposition of our argument or rather to the fourth TRANSGRESSION wherewith their Church of England is chardged vzt That their Churches are ruled by and wilfully remaine in subiection vnto an antichristian and vngodly gouernment contrarie to the institution of our Sauiour CHRIST This wee shewed in our first writing by the publicke and present estate of the Church of England in their whole ministrie worship administration ordinances ceremonies censures cannons customes Courtes to be antichristian euen the same yoke and gouernment that the Pope sometimes exercised by those his naturall children and vnfaithful seruants the Bishopps who nowe haue gotten this power into their owne handes Most of these if not all haue bene alreadie in this present treatise declared and proued to be idolatrous popish blasphemous false and antichristian wholly swarued from the rules of Christes Testament Anie of these howe M r. G. hath by the worde of God approued let the vnpartial reader iudge This their ecclesiasticall gouernment which nowe is in question he faith is the same in matter though yt varie in forme fâ—om CHRISTES gouernment Wherof nowe is arisen a great question in their Church Whether that Apostolicke forme of discipline which they prescribed to the Churches should be perpetuall or variable The Reformistes that hold yt perpetuall sue and complaine to the Parliaments for the same Apostolicke forme to be established and to haue this present gouernment of these Bishopps and their false hierarchie with their Courtes and offices
from al thinges that are fownd contrary to the same is no disobedience to Princes neither to withdrawe or derogate from their sacred power as this malignāt Clergie would persuade But they rather that encroch vpon openly impugne the Princes royal prerogatiue that so highly abuse their Prince and that trust she cōmitteth vnto them that break violate al y e publicke lawes charters of the lande that vsurpe y e ciuile sword aucthority and iurisdictiō which are vtterly prohibited thē by God that vsurpe place aboue al in aucthoritie vnder her Ma tie whoesoeuer to whom by the lawe of God they ought to be subiect that wil not submit their lawes doings persons to any ciuile tryal at the Princes royal iudgmēt seates but rather seek to withdrawe some of the most high and chief causes from her royall Courts and iudgment Seates into their owne Courtes that vsurpe the proper peculiar place titles preuileges power of Christ himself exercising absolute aucthoritie ouer al Churches doctrines causes persons to bring in or cast out erect or abrogate what lawes ordinances ministrie ministration gouernment they lust without controlement that wil not submit their publick ecclesiastical decrees procedings nor yet their priuate liues and conuersation to the tryall and censure of Christ in his Churche by the worde of God that make such barbarous hauocke mis-rule and confusion both in Churche and common wealth that seduce and deceiue their Soueraigne Prince their Nobles Maiestrates and the whole land leading them in the wayes of death destruction tourning them out of the straight waies of life peace that with their vtmost endeuour and skil oppose against the Testament kingdome of Christ that molest spoile and persecute in al hostile maner the Lords most faithful seruantes her Ma tis most loyall true hearted Subiects for refrayning from their idolatries and enormities so contrarie to the gospel of Christ which flowe from their antichristian gouernment and ministrie that nourish fauour and support the Lordes her Ma tis pernitious knowen enimies the Papistes those idolators those conspirators and traytors who they say are not such enimies to their pontifical estate and regiment as these faithfull christians are that are of nothing so iealouse vigilāt and careful not euē of their Soueraigne Princes life or of the peace prosperitie of the whole land as of their owne vsurped ruynous kingedome lest the light of the Gospel should break forth and discouer their apostaticall throne and antichristian procedings And therfore with al their might and may ne they striue to suppresse this light and to oppresse all such as in anie sinceritie and good conscience professe and practize the Gospel tollerating chearishing rather anie mischief anie vile flagitious and dissolute persons as by daylie experience is seene So that by these markes and fruicts let the Christian or but indifferent reader iudge Whether these Prelates and their antichristian Hierarchie be to be held troublers of the Church and state abridgers of the Princes power vsurpers of publick aucthoritie without lawful caling like Corath Dathan Abyram Or wee as this accuser this trompe of Sathan to bleamish our holie profession glorious suffringes shameth not to giue out of vs. Although they all hitherto haue not neither shal euer be able in the confidence of Gods grace and of a cleare conscience wee affirme yt iustlie to detect or so much as to suspect vs of anie such crime endeuoure or intēt We reuerence and are subiect to euerie humane creature for the Lorde whether vnto the Kinge as hauing aucthoritie ouer all or vnto rulers as sent by him for the reuenge of euil doers or for the praise of them that doe well That according to the wil of God by doing wel we might put to silēce the ignorance of vnwise men Yet hold wee not the offices Courtes and iurisdiction of these Prelates and their Hierarchie within the compasse of this Commandement or to be the ordināce of God But finde them that verie throne of Sathan that Anarchie of Antichrist opposite to the kingdome and Testament of CHRIST most pestilent pernitious both to the Church and common Wealthe And therfore may not by Princes be suffred in Churches or cōmon Wealth muchlesse by them be established ouer the Church and common Wealth without giuing their sacred power to the Beast Neither may anie faithfull Christian be brought in subiectiō to this their antichristian power yoke without bowing downe and worshipping the Beast To discusse or perticulate the seuerall innumerable errors faultes abuses corruptions enormities in the cānons constitutions customes procedings of the seuerall Courtes that belong to these Prelates antichristian regiment I am not as I haue said able neither were yt in this place expedient By this which hath bene here generally said of them their Courtes and proceedinges appeareth how contrarie they are to that gouernment and to those ordinances which CHRIST hath established and set ouer his Church for euer CHRISTS Scepter is an euerlasting Scepter a Scepter of righteousnes He hath set downe a most perfect absolute gouernment to his Church He hath perticularly and exactly prescribed what officers lawes ordinances he requireth in his Church He cannot be separate from his owne gouernment He ruleth not his Church by anie other officers or lawes then by his owne which he hath instituted These godlesse Prelates then that appoinct other officers and lawes vnto him ouer his Church wrest not only the Scepter but the Kingdome out of Christes handes And al such as stand vnder the antichristia gouernmēt of these presumptuous idol shepheardes stand not vnder Christes staffe amenitie vnder his Scepter of grace as the sheepe of his fould within his couenant protection but as the sheepe of destruction vnder his yron rodd wherwith they shalbe broken as a Potters vessel Here is our controuersie touching this fourth principal transgressiō fully decided determined by Gods owne mouth That all which stand vnder anie false ecclesiasticall gouernmēt stand not within the Couenant but vnder the wrath of God All the mitigations then reasons and delusions of the false Prophets shal neuer be able to make voide tourne away or diminish these iudgments otherwise then by their vnfaigned repentance speedie conuertion from their euil wayes HITHER TO hath M r. Gif brought vs not one reason or place of scripture to prooue the present gouernmēt of these Prelates and their hierarchie to be that heauenly gouernment which CHRIST hath instituted in his Church but hath grieuouslie peruerted manie scriptures to prooue that the Church might stand vnder some antichristian yoke although we in our first writing in this 4 PRINRIPAL TRANGRESSION blamed yt as false and antichristian In our second shewed yt to be such in the Officers Courtes Cannons procedings Now at length for a clusiue reason to prooue and determine all the poyncts at once and to shut vp his booke he hath
Martyres will not approue the antichristian offices gouernment of these Prelates nor yet iustifie the publick worship ministrie confusion sacriledge of the Church of England Mvchlesse wil these two lame propositions of M r. G. his final argument beare vpp his forged conclusion where he concludeth the Brownistes hereticks c Because they condemne a Church as quite deuorced separate from Christ For such imperfections corruptions in Gods worship as are not fundamental nor destroy the substance For that wicked men come with the godly to the publicke exercises of religion For some wantes in calling ordayning Ministers And for some wantes in ecclesiastical discipline If M r. GIF had taken the wise mans councel he should not haue answered a matter before he vnderstood it much-lesse would he if he had bene ledd by the spirit of God haue blasphemed the truth or cōdemned the innocent without cause But as he began his booke without councel cōtinued it without grace and ended it without truth so hath he herebie but purchased to himself shame and brought vpon his owne head the iudgments due to an accuser a blasphemer a false witnesse and iudge What opinion the Brownistes hold of the Church of England their worship people ministrie gouernment we neither knowe nor regard neither is there cause whie we should be chardged or condemned for their errors faultes For which themselues and this Church of ENGLAND that receiueth and nourisheth all sectories hereticks wicked and abhominable persons whatsoeuer shall accompt For vs whom it pleaseth M r. G. to terme Brownistes and whome he endeuoreth to confute in this treatise we neuer condemned any true Church for anie fault whatsoeuer knowing that where true faith is there is repentance where true faith and repentance are there is remission of all sinnes Far be it from vs to condemne anie whom CHRIST iustifieth 1. And for the Church of ENGLAND we neither did or doe condemne yt as this accuser suggesteth for such imperfections and corruptions in their worship as be not fundamentall or destroy the substance but we condemned the publick worship of their Church of ENGLAND presently inioyned receiued and vsed as deuised by men popish superstitious idolatrous abhominable not such as God commandeth requireth or accepteth and therfore not such as anie faithfull christian may offer vp vnto God be compelled or consent vnto This wee shewed in the first PRINCIPALL TRANSGRESSION this we haue proued in the first part of this treatise 2. Secondly wee condemne not the Church of England as separate from CHRIST for that wicked mē come with the godly to the publick exercises of religion But rather as neuer rightly gathered to CHRIST for that al the prophane and wicked ar receiued and retayned as members of their Churche Wee gladlie acknowledge that CHRIST came a light into the world to offer saluation vnto all men to haue built his Church vpon an hil there to be lifted vp by the preaching of the word as a standard to al people and passengers there to haue made a feast to al natiōs and thither to inuite them Neither were we euer so enuious of the saluation of others or of the glorie of God as hauing founde mercie and being entred our selues to shut the doore or stop the fountaine of Gods grace against others yea God is witnesse with what heartie desire we long after them all that they euen our greatest persecutors might be partakers of the same saluatiō ioy comfort happines with vs And howe wee intermit not much-lesse exclude anie meanes thervnto that God putteth in our power though it were with the hazarde of our owne lyues to bring them of the water of the wel at Bethelem But now though we affirme that al the vnbelieuing prophane not onlie may but ought to resort to the publick exercises of religion in the Church as the most excellent meanes to call them to the faith yet do we not therfore belieue or affirme that the prophane or vnbelieuing may be receiued or admitted as mēbers of the Church before they haue made voluntarie publick profession of their owne faith and obedience Or being entered by such profession be permitted longer to stand or remayne of the Church then they contynue orderlie to walke in the same faith and obedience And therfore we blamed these parish assemblies of England as consisting of a confuse multitude of al sortes of prophane and wicked people in differentlie where they are al receiued nourished and retayned as mēbers of y e Church though they were neuer called gathered by the power of the worde entered receiued by the profession of their owne faith neither walke orderlie in the faith or in anie duties either publick or priuate And so are al guiltie of most high sacriledge prophanatiō of the holy things of God No such assemblie or communion of Sainctes as Christes faithful seruantes ought to repaire or ioyne vnto This wee shewed in the second PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION This we haue lardgly proued in the secōd part of this treatise 3. Thirdly we condemne not the Church of England for some wantes in calling and ordayning Ministers But for hauing maintayning and retayning a false and antichristian ministrie imposed vpon them with a false antichristian calling ordination euen the self same that the Pope vsed left in this Realme which false offices and ministrie cannot be ioyned vnto or exercised in the true Church of CHRIST This wee shewed in the thirde PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION this we proued in the third part of this treatise And therfore with an euil and corrupt conscience hath Mr. G. sought to hide this transgression vnder some vvantes in the calling and ordaining Ministers and thus boldlie and falselie thervpon to accuse vs. Wee knowe there may be faultes either of ignorance or negligence in the calling ordination c yet these not to disanul the action much-lesse the Couenant so longe as they are not obstinatlie held and persisted in But our assertion and controuersie here is not of a faultie ministrie caling ordination c but of a false ministrie caling ordination c which we haue proued theirs to be and that no such belongeth vnto may be imposed receiued or retayned in the Church of CHRIST 4. Fourthly in like maner wee reason not of some wantes in the gouernment and order of their Church but of a false and antichristian gouernment set ouer the Church Neither condemne we the Church of ENGLAND for some faultes in a true ecclesiasticall gouernment but for hauing and standing vnder a false and antichristian gouernment euen the self same Hierarchie Officers Courtes Cannons Customes Priuileges Proceedings that the Pope vsed and left This wee also haue shewed in the 4 TRANSGRESSION and haue nowe in this fourth parte and through this booke fullie proued their present ecclesiastical gouernment to be To which fower principall transgressions a willfull obstinacie an open reiecting resisting the truth al reprofe a violent and most hostile
out though wee doubt not the Church did it by some one or moe of the Prophets or Elders and vnto the Church at their returne the Apostles declared the successe of their iourney In which iourney also the Apostles ordayning or rather helping the Churches to chose and ordaine Elders the word cheirotonesantes lifting vp handes whereby the whole action of chusing ordeyning is expressed doth clearly giue the propertie and right therof vnto the Churches and not vnto the Apostles only who as also the Euangelistes did but instruct direct help and assist the Church herein and not pluck away this power from the Churches Likewise the rules for the choice and ordination of Ministers in the Epistles to Timothie Titus and other places of y e scripture as Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 12. Eph. 4. are not perticularly directed or committed to the coÌ„sistorie of Elders as they cal yt sequestred withdrawen from the Church but vnto the Church consisting of al the members which is therevnto to vse as in all other publicke waighty causes such meet fit instruments as the Lorde affordeth and apoyncteth Neither is this action of approbation and acception or ordination of Ministers so seuered or disioyned from the election as these men dreame Or so tyed to the office or persons of the Elders as the Church might either not ordeyne or not ordeyne without Elders And aswel might y â— Elders take into their hands the elections excommunications c of the Church as the ordinatioÌ„ in this maner Againe if the ordination were thus of necessitie tyed to the handes office of Elders how theÌ„ should the Church after this general defection corruption vnder Antichrist where al the starres were fallen to the earth and the whole shape of the heauen departed away as a booke wrapped vp a new strange ministry brought out of the bottomlesse pit with him as wee reade euer recouer or haue anie true Ministrie againe in this world where should they haue true Elders to ordaine their Ministers In the false and papisticall Church there can be no true Elders or Ministers of Christ The true members of Christ can not be made the members of that Beaste the members of that Harlot The true Ministers of Christ cannot belong vnto neither can administer in the false Church but only belonge vnto and administer in the true stablished Church of Christ. But now in the tyme of this general apostasie and papistical corruption Mr. G. cannot shewe anie where anie true visible established Church vpon earth with the true ministrie gouernment worship sacraments ordinances of Christ howsoeuer in a singular conceipt of his owne he haue pleaded the Church of Rome and her daughters in their deipest apostasie to be in the true Church they and al theirs within the Couenant from antient discent to haue the true seale therof namelie baptisme there giuen vnto them all Yet here not being to be founde anie true christian Ministers or Elders who shal now ordaine their Ministers at their first comming out of popery departing from the Romish Church For nowe we wil transfer the case from our selues who are so odious in Mr. G. his eyes as no good thing wilbe allowed in or to vs vnto themselues When they first came out of poperie were they then Corah his companie an assembly of mutinous prentices Were they not all priuate men Or which of them was otherwise Ordinary or permanent Ministers they could not be because there was no true visible established Church vpon earth and for a thowsand reasons that might be drawen froÌ„ the forgery of their office administration c in y e popish Church Extraordinarie Ministers Apostles or Euangelistes the could not be because as we haue aboue proued they were ceased after y e foundatioÌ„ was once laide and y e work rightly erect according to the true paterne Neither finde we to any one established Church the offices of Apostles or Euangelistes perticularly giueÌ„ belonging or erected in anie of them as a ministri of contynuance Neither had these meÌ„ the caling due to Apostles Euangelistes Nor yet did they chalendge or execute anie such office as appeareth by their writings and profession where they would not haue bene ashamed of y e ministry God had caled them vnto to haue published themselues such as they were But if so be they had donne this yet their practize being so discrepant from the Apostolike paterne worke of the former Euangelistes we might not at any hand accept them for such Thus then at their first comming out of the false Church and gathering together they were but priuate men What then were they hereticks schismaticks for departing out of the false church were they coÌ„uenticlers sectories c for assembling together were they vsurpers and intruders without caling mutiners rebels against Princes and abridgers of their power aud withdrawers froÌ„ their obedience allegeaÌ„ce for dissuading the people froÌ„ the false Church the yoke of Antichrist al their detestable idolatrys and enormities for caling them to the communion of Sainctes to procede to the choice of Ministers and to the practize of Christes Testament as the Lorde shoulde reueale vnto them Al this they did or at the least professed endeuored to doe Yet I hope M r. G. that so buildeth their Tombes and garnisheth their sepulches wil not thus say of them howsoeuer he rayle on vs that doe and protest to doe no whit more If they were faithful ChristiaÌ„s such are we holding the same commune faith with them al Sainctes not as yet truly chardged or duly conuinced of any one error contrary to the faith They left the false Church so do we They assembled ioyned together in the faith of Christ so do we or at y e least would doe They were but priuate men and so are we They herein are not iudged to haue offended God or their Prince and why should wee for the same They herein did more then to come out of Babilon They did more then sweepe or repaire the house for they proceeded to the choice ordination of Miâ—â—sters to the building of the house c Or ells Mr. G. by his owne reasons must condemne them the Church and al the ministrie of the land yea of all Europe as wel as vs. IF he alleadge that though they left their popish administration and to administer in the popish Church yet they left not that ministerie they there had Wee answere as we haue answered that they receiued no better ministrie in the false Church then the false Church could did giue them neither could they bring anie better out theÌ„ they there receiued But the true ministerie belongeth not to the false Church neither caÌ„ the false Church ordaine true Ministers Againe whoseuer leaueth the publick administration of his Ministrie forsaketh his Ministrie But they left the publick administratioÌ„ of their ministrie The like argument may be drawen for leauing the
established church vizt such as are in captiuitie sicknes age or in such times place as they knowe not where to finde one day of the Sonne of man He might aswell conclude that because God is able doth saue some in the false Church Therfore priuate meÌ„ ought not to forsake the false Church God is able to saue some in dispertion out of the established Church Therfore priuate men ought not to seek the established Church THe last greatest matter is that we runne before the Princes commandement whose dutie it is to reforme Churches Priuate men might not so much as sweepe them much-lesse build them For this is to erect a state gouernmeÌ„t because the power of the Church is both publicke greate We haue aboue shewed that y e Church hath Gods coÌ„mandement authoritie alwaies to erect Christes ministri gouernment amongst them That the Church in this estate consisteth only of of priuate men neither are there anie true Ministers anie where to be found vpon the earth neither any extraordinarie Ministers to be looked for seing they are long since ceased Therfore the Church in this estate consisting only of priuate men ought to erect this ministerie and gouernment ells should they also cease and neuer be had againe vpon the earth and so should there neuer be any established Church ministrie Sacramentes c agayne in this world yet here must be noted by the way that Mr. G. runneth too much vpoÌ„ and wresteth too far these wordes priuate men when we speake of the Church consisting only of priuate men Now vnto his crimination the Church hauing this coÌ„mandement aucthoritie giuen of God vnto the worldes end we before shewed him that no Prince might take it away or without great wronge hinder them from the performance hereof yea that the seruantes of God ought not to be staied from doing the coÌ„mandements of God vpon anie restrainte or persecution of any mortall man whosoeuer For this we alleadged the examples and practize of the Apostles who then had bene guiltie of the same disobedience rebellion if Princes in this busines had bene to be stayed for or their restrainte had bene a sufficent let yea that persecution and the crosse of Christ were vtterly abolished if the Church and faithfull were not to proceede in their dueties vntill Princes giue leaue We shewed also that the obedience and practize of Gods will was no disobedience or preiâ—dize to the Prince That we attempted nothing beyonde our calling neither transgressed in our calling We medled not with the reformation of anie publick abuse either in the common wealth or in their Church otherwise then by prayers vnto God and godly exhortation We only according vnto Gods commandement refrained from their idolatrie and other publicke euils and assembled together in all holy and peaceable maner to worship the Lord our God and to ioyne our selues together in the faith vnto mutual duties This we shewed to be the duetie of euerie priuate man that would be saued to leaue the false Church and to seeke the true Church And being thus assembled ioyned in the faith we shewed it to be their dutie together to seeke that ministrie and gouernment which Christ hath left vnto his Church and for the Church to erect the same VNto the Apostles proceeding without the licence of Princes he maketh a double answere One in respect of the persons of the Apostles that they were furnished with a special coÌ„mission and authoritie from CHRIST himself to set vp his kingdome which commission and power the Pastors and Teachers successiuely receiued deliuered ouer to others so that priuate men may not haue this power The other in respect of those Princes in the Apostles tyme which were all heathen and therfore it had bene bootlesse to sue to them But where there is a christian Prince that holdeth the fundamentall poynctes of the christian faith though otherwise this christian Prince doe erre in some matters of doctrine or touching the rules of discipline euerie godly priuate man is to keepe a good conscience not breaking the vnitie and peace of the Church But not to take publicke authoritie to reforme THese instances of the persons of the Apostles and Princes as they are litle to the purpose so doe they him as litle good If the commandement of God were sufficient warrant to the Apostles to doe their worke though al the Princes of the world resisted then must the commandement of the same God be of the same effect to all other instrumentes whom it pleaseth the Lorde to vse in their callings to his seruice also though all the Princes in the world should withstand and forbid the same For neither dignitie of the persons that are vsed make the commandement of God of more authoritie or necessitie to be donne neither yet the greatnes or the goodnes of the persons that withstand this commandement of God make yt of lesse authoritie or necessitie Onlie let the seruantes of God be sure to haue the commaundement and calling of their God for that they doe and then they neede not feare the Powers that are placed of of God for the praise and not for the punishment of the good Our question then is not whether priuate men may doe that which is not their dutie to which they haue no commanndement as this accuser surmizeth to bring vs into danger and hatred But whether they may not doe that which God commanndeth them within the limites of their caling As to forâ—ake idolatrie and the false Church to seke the true worship of God in the true Church though all the Princes of the world whether belieuers or infidels should forbid the same And this we affirme to be the duetie of euerie perticular person whosoeuer forbid We say not now that priuate men may reforme the false Church abolish publick idolatrie or depose a false ministrie that the Kinge setteth vpp This were to breake the boundess of their calling to intrude vpon the Princes office and great cause had they then to feare for he beareth not the sworde in vayne Againe our question is not whether it is the office and dutie of Princes to see abuses reformed both in the Church and common Wealth which we thinck no man to be so ignorant or barbarous to denie except the Anabaptistes But vvhether the Church ought not now amongst themselues freely to practize CHRISTS Testament either in erecting his officers and ordinances or in reforming or correcting anie fault or abuse that ariseth amongst them vvithout staying for the Princes licence yea though the Prince should vpon the paynes of death forbid This we affirme to be the dutie of euerie perticular Congregation CHRIST hauing therfore giuen vnto each and all of them his sacred power and aucthoritie to binde and to loose in earth and to doe all thinges whatsoeuer he hath commaunded them vvith promise to be with them vnto the end of the world He hath giuen them the
and caling God hath placed them Yet is this no preiudize to the Christian libertie and power of the Church no impediment to anie member therof but rather a singular preseruation of all dueties and an excellent instigation of them all to doe the wil of God in their calings For in all this here is no power giuen the Prince to restraine anie iore of the libertie and power of the Church or to with-hold anie one person from doing the whole will of God in their caling Much-lesse is here anie power giue the Prince to drawe or compel the Church or any member therof to the least transgression or error yea when the Prince shall in anie thing be founde contrarie to God God is then to be obeyed rather then man And this is no disobedience to the Princes soueraigne and supreame power ouer al persons and causes ecclesiastical or ciuile is no preiudize or impediment to the Church or to anie member therof from doing the whole will of God in their calings So in like maner are not the proceedings of the Church according to CHRISTES Testament any derogation from or enchrochment of the royal power and prerogatiue of Princes as this false Prophet out of the mouth of Sathau woulde perswade but rather a singular preservation and most rare illustratiō therof Whose reignes are neuer so glorious as when or glorious but when God is worshipped and obeyed according to his reueiled worde and those most chearished and fauored that are most faithful therin In the Church of CHRIST are al duties most faithfullie taught and no knowen transgression of anie knowen duetie suffred either to God or man Howe then can Sathan himself say that the proceedings of the Church or rather or Christ in his Church are contrarie to or derogate from the royall power of Princes They cannot be of God that thus set at variance these blessed powers which God hath so conioyned and contempered for the mutual help each of other and the seruice of his glorie No it is the false Church and this antichristian hierarchie that are preiudicial vnto enchroch vpon and vsurp the Royall aucthoritie power iurisdiction titles honors prerogatiues lads palaces pompe c of Princes The true Church both knoweth howe to obey the Lorde and their Prince in the Lorde They vsurpe not the Princes office when they reforme anie publick fault in the worship administration gouernment ecclesiastical c but execute their owne office For this is not the Princes office to doe in person but to commande the Church to doe it by such instrumentes as God hath ther vnto ordayned This commandment of the Prince doth neither giue the Church more power or make the action more lawful Neither doth the prohibition of anie Prince take away this power of the Church that God hath giuen or make the action that God hath commanded more vnlawful How then doth the Church more sinne in doing these duties in reformation and correctiō of publick faultes and proceeding in the practize of Gods will which God hath commanded to be donne by his Church then anie priuate man sinneth when he correcteth anie fault in himself or in his family or beginneth to doe anie duetie which he before neglected without his Princes lycence Seing the Princes eye power and office extendeth aswell to ciuile as to ecclesiastical dueties aswell to priuate as to publick reformation yea the Princes licence in al Christian consideration extendeth to al godly duties honest actions euen to as many things either to be donne or to be left vndōne as the cōmandements of God extend vnto For he is the Minister of God for y e praise of them that do wel and for the punishment of them that doe euill when the Prince resisteth or suffreth not the worde of God to haue free passage he sinneth doth not his duety But this cā be no excuse for vs to cease to doe the wil of God or to intermit our duetie If he drawe the sword and smite vs for wel doing that but augmenteth his sinne and the blessing of God resteth vpon vs that suffer for righteousnes sake wee may not for feare of persecution or for the indignation of Princes leaue the commandements of God vndonne For that were with this false Prophet to mancipate the lawe of God to the wil of Princes and vtterly to abolish the crosse of Christ out of the world For Princes neuer punish mē for obeying but for breaking their hestes Beastly then hellish is the speach of this mā That saith the Church refuseth the peace of their Prince and prouoketh him to strike when they either reforme such faultes as are in the Church or proceed to doe such things as God hath commanded them though the Prince forbid and wil not giue licence But especiallie where the blasphemer is not afraid to say that the Church when it procedeth to the establishing and practize of Christes ordinances erecteth a state gouernment of their owne Doe they erect anie thing of themselues or that CHRIST himself hath not erected Is not this to accuse CHRIST of treason because he saith he is a Kinge And his seruants of sedition because they set vp his kingdome without the licence and against the will of Princes though it cost them their liues for the same Is not this man a faithful seruant of CHRIST a faithfull subiect to his Prince that so reprocheth CHRISTS heauenlie kingdom reiecteth his ordinances and commandments to make them depend vpon the wil of Princes that so seduceth his Prince and would drawe her into battell against God almighty and his Church Yea if to set vp Christes kingdome in a christiā estate without the leaue or licence of the Prince or state be rebellion and disobedience a derogation from their sacred power an intrusion into their high office how then will he excuse our Sauiour CHRIST himself who being borne in the flesh but in th' estate of a subiect and a priuate man hee neither being Minister of the Temple nor magistrate in the commō Wealth and that in a godly state vnder faithful magistrates as himself acknowledgeth did notwithstāding by al meanes in deuour to set vp his kingdome preached baptized caled al men vnto him although the whole state and gouernours earnestly sorbad and resisted him Those gouernours were to be obeyed and he himself was obedient in al things as became a true subiect If it be answered that he did it by the especial commission and commandment of God Wee readilie graunt that a sufficient warrant vnto him before God and men as also vnto all others that haue the commandement of the same God for that they doe But what is this to our question Whether the Church or such as haue aucthoritie from God ought to be stayed from doing the commandment of God by the inhibition of a christian Prince or state Wee graunte it high sinne and intollerable presumption for anie that haue not aucthoritie of God to enterprise to doe anie thing
in the Church whether with or without their Princes licence But if yt be vnlawful for the Church or such as haue aucthoritie of God without the licence of their christian Prince or gouernours Then verilie our Sauiour his Disciples offended herein who stayed not to doe the will of his heauenlie Father for the threates laying wayte of the Rulers Furder if it be vnlawfull derogatorie to a Christian Princes office aucthoritie for anie to doe Gods wil in their callings and for the Church to proceede in the practize of CHRISTES Testament though against his wil Then is it also vnlawfull vnder a heathen Prince For the christian and heathen Princes haue one and the same aucthoritie office duetie to see all thinges both in the Church and in the commune Wealth donne according to the wil of God There is the same reuerence and obedience though I say not the same bowells of loue due to the heathen that is due to the christian Prince in regarde of their office The heathen Prince shall answere aswell as the christian for the neglect of their duetie for the abuse of their power and place And thus also if M r. G. doctrines be sownd the Apostles likewise sinned against the aucthoritie of Princes in erecting CHRISTS kingdome and the Churches in proceeding to receiue the same and to doe the wil of God without their Princes licence and notwitstanding their prohibition Seing that the vnbeleeuing Princes haue the same place office and aucthoritie and ought to haue the same obediene in respect thereof that christian Princes haue or ought haue And sure most diuelish and detestable are these two published and generallie receiued opinions of these contrarie factions of our English Cleargie men The one giuing out that the forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment prescribed in CHRISTS Testament practized by the Apostles and primatiue Churches in the tymes of persecution is not nowe necessarie or tollerable vnder a Christian Prince The other giuing out that those ordinances and that gouernment which they acknowledge CHRIST to haue instituted and prescribed to his Church vnto the worldes end may not nowe vnder a christian Prince be put in practize by the Church if he forbid the same as they might ought and were vnder heathen Princes by the faithful in all ages With the one of these blasphemous positions the Prelates defend their outragious gouernment and all their antichristian proceedings with the other the tyme-seruers these counterfeite Reformistes colour and defend their perfidie not witnessing vnto and practizing the Gospell of Christ and their seruile subiection to the gouernment of Antichrist By which positions both sides most impiously abrogate the heauenlie gouernment and ordinances of Christ in his Church and intollerably seduce and abuse that most blessed and comfortable ordinance of the christian Magistracie Both of them hereby shut vp the kingdome of heauen against all men neither entring themselues nor suffring such as would but holding the whole land vnder the enormous gouernment of Antichrist in the wrath of God whose iudgment therfore sleepeth not YEt remayneth an other dangerous error which Mr. G. hath pickeâ— out of a certaine answere made by me HENRIE BARROVVE to three greate Bishops of this land where being demaunded whether the Queene may make lawes for the Church which are not contrarie to the worde of God I seeing wherat they aymed vzt to maintayne al these popish reliques deuises tromperies c wherwith their worship Church is pestered answered as I remember to this effect That no Prince neither al the meÌ„ of the world not the Church yt self could make any lawes for the Church other then CHRIST hath left in his worde But I thought it the dutie of euerie Prince especially of euerie christian Prince to enquire out renewe the lawes of God and to stir vp all their subiects vnto more diligent careful keeping of the same This answere M r. G. after his accustomed maner pronownceth Anabaptisticall deâ—ijng and cutting off a great part of the power God hath giuen vnto Princes and a great part of Discipline Proof of these chardges he maketh none except we must take these two assertions in way of proofe vntill he bring better The first is that CHRIST hath giuen general lawes or rules for matters of circumstance that be indifferent variable in the perticulars and so to be altered and abolished as the peace and edification of the Church shall require And therfore that Princes with the Church are to ordaine to establish such orders by those generall rules as may afterward for iust cause be altered M r. G. his antecedent here is so general extendent his conclusion so doubtful and indefinite taking such roome to himself in both to escape euade as except he drawe nearer and in his next booke take the paynes to set downe what he meaneth in his proposition by general lawes rules and by matters of circumstance And in his conclusion what kinde of orders those such orders are the Prince should ordeine establish he shalbe so far from distressing or convincing me as I shall neuer perceiue where he is or where about he goeth This when he shal doe then I shall knowe what to answere him In the meane tyme I confesse manie thinges of circumstance as the tyme place of assembling what scriptures to reade or to interprete how longe to continue in prayer or prophecie c to be left in libertie at the discretion of the Church to be wisely vsed according to their present occasions to edification order decencie Of these sondrie such like the Lord in wisedome sawe it not good to set downe positiue or permanent lawes for all Churches and tymes because the present estate and diuers occasions of all Churches yea of anie one Church are so diuers variable that prescript definitiue lawes could not be set of such things in perticular for the space of one moneth without manifold incoÌ„veniences great preiudize to the Church Of such things then as the Lord for these wise endes waighty causes hath left in the libertie discreation of the Church to be vsed and ordered according to the present estate and occations therof c may man make no prescript positiue lawes in perticular to enioyne therby this forme this tyme c vpon all or vpon anie one Church without restrayning that which God hath left at libertie yea without coÌ„trolling contrarijng the wisdome of God which no doubt is most excellently perfect euen in the least thinges and without manie other grieuous inconveniences intollerable preiudize to the Church of God Much better therfore should the Prince prouide for the Church to see them duly to obserue the lawes that God hath giueÌ„ and to vse their libertie aright Or where they transgresse in either of these to reprooue or to correct accordingly then to make and enioyne new lawes of his owne deuising so contrarie to the libertie yea euen to that order
therfore we suffer because wee wil not denie this faith But by his owne argument he hath turned himself and their whole Church and Priesthood out of the folde whiles they are not gathered vnto CHRIST alone by his doctrine only but maintaine Antichristes lawes orders his seruantes they are to whome they gyue themselues to obey To proue his former reason hee aledgeth the custome of the olde time in Gods Church and the scripture yt self Reuel 2. where the Nicolaitanes are meÌ„tioned Arians of Arius Montanistes of Montanus Nouatians of Nouatus Pelagians of Pelagius Donatistes of Donatus The doctrine we do graunt that wicked Heretikes Scismatikes may iustly be named of the aucthors and leaders But heresie and schisme we denye to be maintayned by vs And you hauing neuer conuinced vs of heresie neither can proue your Churche to be the true apparant established Church of Christ must gyue accompt for your malitious sclandering of vs and numbring vs among such hatefull heretickes as the Arians c. If wee be Christians then must you gyue accompt for this offence which is not only done to vs but to his truth and to himself You affirme in an other place that you had rather gyue accompt for to much charitie shewed to the wicked yea for iustifijng an euil man then for coÌ„demning the iust being iguoraÌ„t that the woe is pronounced against both But here you haue forgotteÌ„ your self herein and by sclandering the truth you know what danger you incurre Luke 17. 1. 2. Math. 18. 7. He draweth the original of Brownisme as he termeth yt from Donatus and sayth Browne was the cheife renewer therof yet afterward saith ther was a Church of them eighteene yeeres agoe in London wherin one Bolton was a cheife doer whose fearful end is not forgotteÌ„ For the original of our profession we fetch yt from Christ and his Apostles practize of the Church in the Apostles time as all the Martyres from time to time haue done according to the light they sawe For Donatus and Browne they must answere for themselues We are buylt vpon the foundation of the Apostles Prophetts IESVS CHRIST being the chief corner stone Other foundation then this can no man lay wee offer our workes to be tryed hereby It is Mr. Giffard himself that so wel may remember the fearfull end of Bolton for yt is true that as I haue heard he stood against your ministerie for Cappes Surplus Crosse with many other your Romish trynckets as I haue heard your self haue done after reuolting and become a conformable member of your Churche hanging himself yt is a remembrance for Apostates Donatisme saith he in old time about twelue hundreth yeeres past was condemned as approued detestable schisme heresie The Brownistes and Donatistes shal appeare to agree together as two peices of cloth that are of the same woll same threed colour working and bredth If this man had read with iudgment the holy scripture as concerning the general defection Apostasie with the encrease decrease of Antichristes kingdome hee would haue blushed to haue entred this comparison For the Donatistes wee haue not to deale yet if the right eye were not blinded hee might haue considered better the Donatistes causes of separation and ours and it woulde not haue seemed so like together the times causes persons from whome and maner of their separation must be better weighed which because he hath taken in hande to perticulate afterward I wil only shew one here wherin we make such a difference as al his other are but trifles The Donatistes held still the same worship gouernment offices officers entrance and the same administration of sacraments c that the other did from whome they did separate and as it seemeth receiued whole Cities and Contries to be the Church as before so that their separation was more like the sectes and schismes amonst your selues you from the Papists the Martinistes from you the forward Predicants as they are called from the Bishops then any such separation as we by the coÌ„mandemeÌ„t of God make from false Church false ministerie false Sacraments Antichristian gouernment c vnto the true ordinances of Christ Heretickes and Sectaries make schisme but this true conuertion from the euill to the good from the false to the true fewe finde yt although it be the plaine commandement of God Reue. 18. 4. and the way to saluation Acts. â— 40. For indeed it is not enough to forsake the false wayes but to seeke the antient wayes of the Lord and to walke in them that wee may finde rest to our soules Mr. Giffard his setting downe of the causes of the Donâ—â—istes separation bewrayeth himself to seeke onlie the defamation of the truth without shew of reason First he sayth that in the persecutions by the Romish Emperours manie being as they were then termed proditors and traditors of the Bookes of God the holy vessells their bretheren c there was a rumor that such offences had bâ—ne committed by some Nowe saith he there came certeine Bishops from Numidia to Carthage a famous Citie in Africa to ordeyne a Bishop and found Cecilianus alredye ordeined and placed in the seate c. Thus farre I trust it will be granted me his peeces of cloth are not both of a woll for the difference I refer to the obstinate heynouse traÌ„sgressions wherwith we haue chardged these parrish assemblies Further the Brownistes as he in the spirit of blasphemy termeth them approue of no such Bishop or Bishoprickes no such seate nor ordination as they came about Well the Bishops of Numidia were wroth that they could not ordeine In this poinct his threeds are not proportionable Wee thrust not our â—elues beyond our lyne in these actions neither do any thing in the high matters of God through ambition These things are all founde amongst your selues the kingdome through enuie diuided for al your chiefest strife hath bene whither a Sinode of parrish Priestes or a Lord Bishop should create your Priestes this being your principal contention the one side must needs be Donatistes He procedeth and saith thesâ— Bishops of Numidia ioyned together and layed a crime vpoÌ„ â—â—â—cilianus they say his Ordeyner delyuered the holy books was a Traditor wherevpon they would haue Caecilianus reputed no Minister of CHRIST but the sonne of a traditor In this M r. Giff. discerneth not colours The Brownistes separate not for anie one mans person through envie they shewe other causes whie they repute your whole ministerie to be a false and AntichristiaÌ„ ministerie and not the true ministerie of the Gospel they allowe not ordination by one man but proue the offices entrance and administratioÌ„ of your ministerie to be wholly Antichristian and herevpon wee repute them no true ministerie of Christ. For the triall of this matter saith hee there was no assemblie of learned Pastors to iudge in this case according to Christs ordinance but furor dolus tumultus did beare the swaie Here M r. Giffard
no such doctrine but all that God gyâ—eth grace to returne by repentance ought to be receiued though no Apostate â—uer to beare office in the Church yet such we take to be wholly purged in the blood of CHRIST by repentance which your parish assemblies neuer did But this setting their persons aside we take to be an vndoubted truth of God that where no separation is made from Idolatrous prophane Atheistes Heretickes tyrannicall persecutors nor no couenant entred by the faithfull vnto the obedience and orderly practize of CHRISTES ordinances but a generall commixture with the world in sacriledge in false worship vnder a false ministerie such assemblies are no true Churches orderly gathered or established Now looke saith he vpon the Donatistes of England Antichrist hath bene exalted according to the prophesie of Paule he hath sat in the Temple of God c. This man by his whole former discourse present Argument it semeth herein chiefly compareth vs to the Donatistes that as they made all their quarrell for Caecilianus his vnmeetnes for his office so we make our quarrell for that Antichrist reigned or doth reigne as hâ— after expoundeth it in the Church of God wherein he affirmeth that they which submitted or stand still in subiection vnto his decrees iurisdictioÌ„ ordinances ministerie are yet notwithstanding the true apparant Church of God First we answere that we take not the word Antichrist to be vnderstood of one mans peâ—son but of all the falsly called Fathers of the Sea of ROME and more generally of all that exalt themselues aboue the ordinances of CHRIST and his Church establishing their owne deuises in place thereof or giue life vnto the image of the Beast for if the same markes of pride blasphemie and tyrannie erection of a strange ministerie lifting vp themselues aboue CHRISTS Testament ordinances and worship be sound emongst your spirituall Lords in England we see not but Antichrist spoken of by Paul may be also found amongst you Now if M r. GIFFARD had considered Caecilianus his estate who at the hardest was but vncapable of that lawfull office and to that lawfull administration as it was on both sides supposed and concerning the outward order or maner lawfully ordeyned there can be no comparison betwene him and Antichrist And for Antichristes sitting in the Temple of God M r. GIFFARD must know that manie times the Church is called the Church not because yt remayneth still vnder the outward couenant but because yt sometimes did so yea and at the first creeping vp of that man of sinne while the iniquitie wrought in a mysterie yt was the Church out of which he sprang and in which he sometimes sat The holy Ghost giueth vs then hereby to vnderstand that this Antichrist who should change the holy ordinances should be an Apostata he should be neither Turke nor Pagan but the bottomlesse pit should be opened by him in more subtile and strange delusions out of which smoke all your ministerie is proceeded But when he had changed the ordinances destroyed euery greene thing caused all high and low rich and poore to receiue his marke in their hande or foreheade and suffred none to buye and sell which would not fall downe and worship him the sunne now couered with sackcloth the Moone turned into blood the starrs fallen from heauen the true worshippers murthered if any one stood vp Gods curses threatned to all that worshipped the Beast or his image or receiued his marke in their hand or foreheade we hope this man will not say yt was now the apparant Church of God lest he coÌ„demne not only the scriptures but al whome God commanded to come out of her calling her the mother of fornications the harlot that sitteth vpon many waters hold of all vncleane spirits cage of all vncleane and hatefull birdes confused Babell c. So that if M r. GIFFARD had anie salt of grace he would better pervse the booke of Reuelations which with all the prophesies of the Prophets of CHRIST himself and of his Apostles make manifest this generall Apostasie and defection vnder Antichrist and not now tell vs a tale of Caecilianus Doth he not see in the whole Booke the false Church true lyuely described the one worshipping the Beast the other following the Lambe the one persecuted the other persecuting in most bloody murder of the Sainctes Well saith he but Antichrist is disclosed by the glorious light of the Gospel his damnable doctrine cursed idolâ—trie and vsurped tyrannie are cast forth of this land the true doctrine of faith is published c. First we must here demaunde whether these assemblies were then the true Church when they were ledd by those damnable doctrines and lyued in that cursed idolatrie bowing downe to the Beast and persecuting the Sainctes Secondly as we are not vnthankfull for the abandoning of the POPES person supremacie with much of his damnable wares we demaund of you what you thinke of those persons which set opeÌ„ his shoppes againe keepe his Courtes and exercise like vsurped power and tyrannie that was before But to answere directly Antichrist is not discouered in your assemblies his daÌ„nable doctrines cursed idolatries vsurped tyrannie are not cast forth the doctrine of faith is not sincerely published Againe what is al this to the prouing of a true Church a lawfull ministerie true worship and holy gouernment of CHRIST Your parish assemblies were receiued from the Popes hand without anie conuersion by repentance or orderly gathering by doctrine into any communion the Popes ministerie set ouer them the worship though a litle changed out of latine into english some of theirs left out but al y t remayneth either takeÌ„ froÌ„ his Portesse or mens deuises these assemblies still gouerned by those Courtes Officers and Canons that before What place hath now Christes Testament amongst you how is Antichrist discouered or his damnable wares cast forth Is it not made subiect to these Antichristian ordinances ministerie worship gouernment It is not limited stinted and aportioned no further to be opened then to vphold these execrable orders idolatries sacrileges yea is not only the bare name therof vsed as a stale and doctrine therof peruerted to the deceiuing of the people in this estate Moses law was read euerie Sabboth day in their Synagogs when they crucified CHRIST But you should haue proued you had such assemblies such a ministeri such a worship such a gouernmeÌ„t as the Gospel prescribeth Being then the same assemblies contynuing in false worship vnder the same ministerie gouernment al the Atheistes Papistes Hereticks Antichristian officers c in one coÌ„mixture that the POPE left we may wel affirme you to remaine stil the marcked seruantes of Antichrist not speaking here how many Antichristes are here exalted leauing the damnable doctrines cursed idolatrie false preaching of the Gospell to our lardger discourse in due place But now M r. GIFFARD beholding these things that they haue made no separation nor draweÌ„ the people vnto the ordinances
of the Gospel is compelled to runne backe againe to iustifie the Church of ROME and to maintaine that these assemblies were the true Churches of Christ in the deepest defection vnder Antichrist The Apostasie hauing invaded the Church yt contynued euen then the TeÌ„ple of God in which Antichrist did sit and that the very Idolators were sealed with the seale of Baptisme professed CHRIST in some poinctes rightly their childreÌ„ from antient discent within the Couenant the ministeri so far remayning as yt was the authentick seale delyuered by them the Brownistes not vnderstanding the scripture thus in mad furie lyke blynde hypocrites condemne c. Let vs reason a litle more coolely rage will not serue to carie the matter We will here take it granted that your parishes ministerie c cannot now be proued the Church and ministerie of Christ except they were so in the time of poperie We see further how wel the Gospel is opened or Antichrist discouered with you wheÌ„ such a famous Prophet hath not learned to reade the mysterie writté in that Womans forehead which the holy Ghost recordeth to be this greaâ—e Babilon the Mother of whoredomes and abhominations of the earth Reuel 17. Againe the scripture saith Cap. 14. If any man worship the Beast his image and receiue a marke in his forehead or on his hand the same shall drincke of the wine of the wrath of God Who wil M r. Giffard make this Woman if not the Church of Rome sitting vpoÌ„ the people tongues and nations that were seduced or are seduced in this Apostasie And howe hath he read the scriptures that saith the seales of the Couenant belong to open blasphemous Idolators their seede God saith hee will punish the transgression vnto the third and fourth generation He saith nay though they be the childreÌ„ of Idolators and contynue in their Fathers steppes they ought to haue the seals of the Couenant Againe if he say the seale of Baptisme in the false Church belongeth vnto that adulterous seede howe wil he denie that blasphemous sacrifice and bread God against which so manie witnesses haue gyueÌ„ their lyues which is plainely denijng of Christ to be come in the flesh and imagining him a fantastical body to be in euery place How can M r. Giffard yeild them one SacrameÌ„t and not the other Fuâ—ther how ignorantly he speaketh of the Couenant and of a SacrameÌ„t made by that ministerie it were too long to discusse Wel in al this he hath forgotten his comparison betwene the Donatistes and vs they had no such controuersie with Caecilianus but now pervse one of Mr. Giffards The Church of papacie in the deepest defectioÌ„ was the visible Temple of God hauing the true seales of the Couenant I then reason thus The Church of of Geâ—eua Scotland lowe Contries France c. haue separated from the Church of Rome which is the apparant Church of God for none haue the true ministerie the true authentick seales of the Couenant but the true Churche Therefore they are Schismaticks Donatistes Brownists Hereticks Againe Geneua Scotland c condemne the Church of Rome by separating from yt therefore they do also condemne the Church of England which approueth of and communicateth with the Papistes Moreouer howe wil he answere this Her Ma â—ie hath expelled the Pope his ministerie his doctrine and idolatrous worship therfore she hath expelled the ministerie and worship of the true Church And what followeth by Mr. Giffard his collections think you they that reiect the ministerie of Christ reiect Christ himself But these Brownisâ—es condemne the reformation by Magistrates c. No it is a false sclander We only put difference betwene the reformation by the Magistrates sworde and the reformation by doctrine and he is a false Prophet that either goeth about to set these at variance or confoundeth them The Magistrat suppresseth the euill within the Church without the Church in their Dominions by bodily punishmeÌ„ts in equitie and defendeth the godly The ministerie of the word gatherâ—th guydeth ordereth c a people vnto and vnder the true ordinances of Christ by the Word and Spirit The Prince may and ought suppresse all false vvorship false ministerie idolatrous assemblies and proclaime and commaund true worship orderly assemblies true ministerie c. But the workmanship hereof is spiritual by doctrine c to be accomplished in due order according to the rule of the word Stil wee vrge you therfore to shewe vs this gathering ordering and gouerning of a true Church in these parrish assemblies by the word of God In the meane time you bestowe but your oyle meale and your whole ministerie and guystes to dawbe vpp Idolatrie confusion sacrilegde Neither doth the word reformaâ—ion agree to your Church for cursed is he that buyldeth the walles of Iericho not one stone of Babel wil serue for a foundation What comparison is there then betwene your reformation and the reformation by Iosâ—as shew the perticulars we wil answere Ells it shall suffice that he sacrificed the Priestes of BAAL vpon the Altar reduced the people to the true ministerie and ordinances of the Temple If the Priestes did not this according to Gods worde then they were guyltie and to be punashed by his sword So that these false Prophets Inchanters counterfeit time-seruers which extol her Ma tiâ— for hauing graÌ„ted the freedome of the Gospel true ministerie true worship gouernment c and yet themselues do misleade the people in a false way to peâ—dition shall not only lye open to the Magistrates sworde when God shall put in their heart to execute his wil but answere before the Lord for al this confusion sacriledge Idolatrie and filthines maintained by their deceitful tongues I do not pleade to haue them put to death because they neuer knew or profâ—ssed the truth but to haue their false offices abolished and they compelled to some lawfull calling in the Church or common wealth as they should be therevnto founde meete and be lawfully called Wee are not deceiued then in imagining that you woulde make vs belieue the Princes did compell them to be a Churche which were no Church before without any orderly gathering guyding and ordering of them by Christes lawes worship ministerie and ordinances for wee deny y t your parrish assemblies were in time of popery true Churches or haue nowe forsaken all false worship Proue your asseitions and what discipline belongeth to the false Church iudge you Of the pollution by communicating with open sinners WHere hee maketh the cause of our separation and as hee calleth it our accusing of these parrish assemblies to be vtterly fallen from the Couenant of God to be for that they are polluted with communicating with open sinners he mistaketh and I feare purposly falâ—ifieth our minde writings for we haue added to this an obstinate wilful retayning of al sortes of prophane as members of your Church gyuing them the Sacraments c. But as I haue donne before so must
discipline to execute neither belong CHRISTS ordinances to your Antichristian ministerie Babilonish assemblies which we denie to hold the head CHRIST in this their subiection to Antichristes ministerie ordinances worship It is but then your ignorance to make comparison betwene the Donatistes and vs. To the Worship THat the Donatistes did separat themselues from as corrupted a worship as the Brownistes doe Mr. GIFFARD wil stand to affirme Saith he there were prayers oblations for the dead then significatiue ceremonies superstitious signing of themselues with the signe of the Crosse c. To which we answere that Mr. GIFFARD affirmed in the 6. page of his booke that the Donatistes departed disorderly out of the Church condemning yt not for any poinct of doctrine for therein the other Churches they did agree Now here he would make comparison betwene them vs in disalowing the worship But it seemeth Mr. GIFFARD holdeth not anie doctrine to be contayned in the worship which indeed ought to coÌ„teine nothing els and sure it is a strang worship that is not grounded vpon doctrine The second thing in this place we will note is the time of these corruptions in the worship namely as he reckoneth within two hundreth yeares after CHRIST If their worship were then as corrupted as ours is now we merueil how you will defend the platforme of your Church gouernment from that tyme that was so corrupt calling yt the primatiue Church Your fellow Priests Argumentes from the primatiue Church as thy falslie call those times will be of small weight if you make their worship as corrupt as this deriued from Antichrist In the 44 page he graunteth as much of the gouernment that it was then thus corrupt when our tyme-seruers will only cleaue to that paterne and neither he nor they to the Testament of CHRIST Thirdly he hath forgotten his scope Argument He should by his promise haue prooued that the Doâ—â—tistes we were of one iudgment in this poinct and that they made the false worship one principal cause of their separation as we do so that he hath forgotten himself in this place as a man not knowing where to make shew of somthing Next where Mr. GIFFARD grantes that in those assemblies where the worship is idolatrous it is lawfull to separat a mans self he contrary to those expositions of the 2 Corinth 6. and other places to that effect now granteth a separation in body and minde both I will not rebuke him nor charge him of inconstancie because I perceiue him to contradict his holy Pastors of these tymes where he seeth them to erre But he by and by returneth to his vomit againe thus Ther are many great corruptions in the worship before it come to that where certeine fundamental poincts of doctrine are holden the worship cannot be idolatrous but in the deepest defection in poperie ther were certeine fundamentall poincts holden as he faith in an other place wherby they were stil in the Church and vnder the Conenant therfore ther is no idolatrous or blasphemous worship that may in the Papistes Church be separated from Mr. GIFFARD may be a good subiect but sure his groundes of doctrine are popish and pernitious We here demaund of Mr. GIF whither such corruptions errours as he speaketh of might be of the godly that knew them such be offered vp by themselues or communicated with in the Church And Mr. GIF must giue vs leaue to say it cannot be their worship was so corrupt as yours consisting of so manie patched deuises of your learned Popes so long hatched and by so manie heades as haue out of that fordge of Sathans minting howse contriued yt euen out of Antichristes treasurie of deceites As for errours that haue no good foundation we may shew him twentie for one Hitherto then Mr. GIFFARD his bretheren that haue separated from the Church of ROME as they would pretend yet retayning still that worship are bretheren with the Donatistes as he pleaseth to deride that holy name of bretheren To the Ministerie THe Donatistes cried out that the Churches from which they separated had no true Ministers but that they were all false Prophets Iudasses persecutors of the iust generations of vipers because they said they had their ordination from them that were such The Brownistes lift vp their voyces with all their might call vs Baalls Priestes the marked seruantes of Antichrist false Prophets seducers and such lyke because as they say we are ordeyned by Antichristian Bishops therfore we be Donatistes Mr. GIFF. his Argument is denyed Ieremie our Sauiour Christ and diuers of the Prophets against Israell did in this maner pull off the visardes of the false Prophets disclosing their wickednes to y e people were they therfore Donatistes or Schismatickes Calvine all of you cry out against the Popes ministerie at ROME are you therfore Donatistes and Schismatickes The matter then must be considered for which they so called them The Donatistes for no other cause then for that some of them were ordeyned by Iudasses and traytours the Brownistes for that these are ordeyned by Antichristian Bishopps which exercise an other spirituall gouernment then CHRISTS Wherein if you had eyes to see there is no comparison betwene their cause ours First the person that did ordeine satâ— in a lawful office as the Donatistes supposed did also ordeine as they thought in maner according to the rule of the word the partie that was ordeined meete for the ministerie the office to which he was called lawfull the administration wherein he was to administer holy and good for anie thing they sawe The contrarie of all which we finde in your ministerie and the thing wherein you would haue vs likened together was neuer our reason which is the wickednes of the mans person that doth of his sole authoritie ordeine for manie Churches which we neither approoue in the Donatistes or you Our exceptions in this case I say hath neuer bene against the person of your Ordinarie although we might iustly Take next time your matter together and looke whose kingdome you administer in what calling office Leitourgie flock and be ashamed of your comparison by so much as your ministeri is more wicked Again you here put the cause of our casting of the Bishops their traine into the lake to be for that they exercise an other discipline then CHRISTES as though this were some small matter which if you put the word gouernment of the Church you shall finde it the denial of CHRIST to reigne in his kingdome a suppression of at his lawes ordinances euen the whole Testament and erection and practising of an other Let him that readeth consider what state all stand in that remaine in this kingdome erected against Christ and what ministerie the seducers in this foraigne priesthoode exercise of God or of the Deuill for CHRIST hath but one ministerie one Gospell one gouernment ouer his Church Now seeing ther is no comparison
betwene the Donatistes cause ours I would if he would forbeare to conclude me a Donatist for this poinct demaund this question in their cause if their accusation had bene true Namely whether one that hath professed the faith and after so foully apostatat as to accuse his bretheren denie the faith persecute the truth he sometimes professed may without repentance be receiued into the Church againe Then whether though he repent and be receiued he be euer capable of the ministerie or no. Then whether he alone may ordaine an other Minister or no if hee do whether the other be a lawful Minister or no. But in such cases in the Churche I could like well to here some man to perswade to repentance or to cast out the obstinat by due order and neither Augustine nor Angell from heauē to plead for a tolleration of open transgression which pleading for sinne maketh vs suspect the matter verie deeply iustifijng neither Their similitudes the riuer from the fountaine the members the head the stock and the plant in their application wee approue not but hold the doctrine erronious that they thought anie thing could be ordeyned from the person of the man in that sort But your discent from Antichrist and pedegree in that kingedome is an other thing if you would please to conceiue it namely that your office names liuinges entrāce administration c is of the Pope of Satan and that whē his kingdome shalbe abolished your office name entrance Vicarage leitourgie and all shalbe cast with the great milstone vpon them with all such trafique into the bottome of the sea Herevpon it is we say your discent is from the Pope within few degrees being the childrē of these Antichristian Bishops which are the creatures of the Pope who is the eldest sonne of Sathā and his vicar generall vpon earth whose image marke power and life you beare and together with him lyue reigne stand and fall as the branches with the tree for when the power decrees gouernment offices worship c of Antichrist is gone all your ministerie is vanished for euer The Lorde therfore put in her Ma ties heart to extirpate the same and to aduāce CHRISTS lawes ordinances ministerie worship c as he is worthie that euery knee may bowe vnto him But Mr. Giffard affirmeth we shal not be able to proue our accusation of their Ministerie that yt is by discent from Antichrist his reason is ther is no Minister in England by the Pope c. We shal not here need to seek out a Pope in England If hee will learne to distinguish betwene the Popes person and his decrees Canons orders after the Popes orders of priesthood he must be driuen to confesse their whole ministerie office entrance c to be drawen by discent and wee thinck Mr. Giff. will not hang the life and vertue of holy thinges vpon mens persons but vpon the ordinances of God lest he be a Donatist Hee further affirmeth the ministerie of publishing the Gospel delyvering the sacramentes is not the deuise of man but Christs ordinance Do you thinke Mr. Giff. can begg the question to affirme a Ministerie whose office entrance c is of Antichrist doth publish the Gospel Againe that they receiue yt as Christs Ministery when it is from point to point wholly found to be after the orders of Antichrist And when no shift wil help him out he is faine to affirme valiantly that the ministery was not vtterly destroyed in popery for there remained the Sacrament of Baptisme See here how he hath plunged himself into the sea of poperie and ouertumbled y e doctrines of his learned Fathers T. Co. saith from Malachie that the ministerie is not tyed to the succession of mens persons but to the law ordinances and what ministery the Popes is reade Reuel 9. c. You charge her Ma tie verie far to haue cast out y e true ministeri out of the lād for putting our Pope Cardinal shauē crowned Priest Fryer Monke Abbot And if y e Baptisme could not be a true Sacramēt without a lawful Minister then your ministerie being vnlawful ther is no seale w t promise no true church c. Seeing then the holy Ghost hath described that Church to be the Harlot sitting vpon many waters the mother of fornications confused Babel murderesse of the Saintes an holde of vncleane spirits and a cage of euerie vncleane and hatefull birde neither ministerie Sacramentes worship or anie thing remayneth there according to Gods ordinance and at the best you make your self this whole land Scismaticks from the true Church Ministeri Sacramentes if it so stand with the Church of Rome ministeri therof and of necessitie you are al Donatistes by your reasoning though my purpose is not to defend and proue in this discourse but to call a fewe notes to your memorie I will conclude this point that you are driuen to the Popes ministerie for your orders now desiring you to satisfie vs next time concerning the Popes damnable masse or Sacrament of the Altar if they be true Ministers whether the Church cā haue one Sacrament good and in other euil one with promise the other damnable blasphemous and accursed for I take it they cannot be true Ministers at the Font and sacriledgious massmongers at the Altar Weigh these things more cōsideratly before you publish such doctrines in England againe To the Sacramentes THe Donatistes did hold that the Sacramentes or efficacie of them depend vpon the worthines and holynes of the mā that administreth But the Brownistes are not of that minde To this obiection hee verie charitablie answereth that in this great ranke point of donatisme hee can finde no difference at all Let the wordes and meaning of both be skanned and it shall appeare manifestly that they hold the self same thing neither more nor lesse but like euen bretheren or ells Mr. Giffard wil be found a common lyer and sclanderer This mā may not be suspected of anie malitious practise to deface the truth yet is found to make his comparison by his false sclanders and not of anie direct sentence of ours What sinne hee is fallen into that so often dirideth the word bretheren let the godly consider The Donatistes held that if the man being a lawful Minister were a sinner the Sacrament delyuered by him was no true Sacramēt Mr. Giffard confesseth we hold no such thing where is then the consimilitude The Donatistes held that the faith or conscience of the gyuer did giue faith vnto purge make cleane the conscience of the receiuer and so of the contrarie the guyltines which doctrine we holde to be blasphemous it is only y e holy Ghost that worketh faith and purgeth from an euil conscience The Donatistes held that if he which did administer were an open sinner he was no Minister and so no Sacrament We do not hold that euery opē sinne maketh the Minister no Minister seing the high Priest manie times sinned vnder
ROME and yet keepe their gouernment worship therfore the Church of England are Schismamatickes and Donatistes and an other poinct that ther can be no true Sacramentes no true Church vnder a false gouernment And Mr. GIFFARD is yet further out of his way To the Argument of manie Churches HE granting that we herein differ from the Donatistes in that they condemne all Churches in the world we do not will needes notwithstanding haue vs Donatistes in this poinct also For saith he though they shoote not their arrowes at them yet their arrowes strike them their Argumentes vpon consequence will reach so far yea runne thorough the sides of all Churches This we answere you must first cleare your selues of those thinges wherwith you are chardged and pressed and trouble not your self with other mens matters seing you make this but a cloke for your wickendnes to shrowde your self vnder other meÌ„s persons with whome we haue not to deale We vtterly refuse to enter into this controuersie of the estate of other Contries we know the word of God is neere vs thankes be to God by which if your cause be good suffer it to be tryed As for the consequence of our Argumentes they are but your owne collections to passe ouer your owne sinnes and sett the strife betwene vs and other Churches which we wil not be drawen vnto And all men may here behold this sower of wordes and strife maker will counterfeit not only consequence but Argumentes of his owne head to raise quarrell In all which he hath forgotten his promise to compare our writinges and theirs together and flyeth to his owne collection In this part of his stage-play he beginneth thus The Church of ENGLAND is esteemed reuerenced emongst the Churches as a sister and so coÌ„municated with yet they all know what her faultes be in her assemblies in her worship in her ministerie gouernment in asmuch as they are apparant Vnto the first we suppose your worship ministerie Church gouernment are not so apparant vnto them as you gyue out Secondly we doubt yea I may say it is vntrue that they iustifie your ministerie worship or gouernment Thirdly admit they should thus sinne either of ignorance negligence or infirmitie standing otherwise orderly gathered to the practize of CHRISTES ordinances they are not for this sinne till after due convincement and admonition they remaine obstinat to be presently iudged no Churches But what I thinke of their estate you shall here pardon me I wil not intermedle till I be called As for your harmonie of Confessions if it be not the harmonie of the Prophets CHRIST and his Apostles it skilleth nothing vs what coÌ„sent you make Againe it is not an accord in certeine general Articles that can satisfie this matter when in the perticulars you discent to the ouerthrow of al Such an harmonie you may very wel make with your mother Church of ROME and a great deale more large Neither do their Confessions agree with you in the estate of the ministeri Church gouernment nor worship Scotland Geneua France c haue an other ministerie offices choise ordination and ministration an other gouernment worship but it were too large to discusse And now hold to your Argument and see what wil follow The Church of ROME haue the same confession of faith which you call your Apostolick Crede that you haue yea the Lordes prayer as you cal it Athanasius Crede c therfore they and you agreeing in this harmonie of confession are one body one Church Againe these Churches you say hold you the Church of God and you hold the Church of ROME to be the Church of God therfore you are one body al and then you al the Churches Schismatickes from your mother Church If the Church of ENGLAND be Antichristian idolatrous and worship the Beast c then the Churches which perfectly know the same and yet acknowledg her a sister are partakers of her sinne and so to be condemned with her The same Argument we thus returne you If the Church of ROME be Antichristian idolatrous worship the Beast theÌ„ the Church of ENGLAND which perfectly knoweth the same yet acknowledgeth her a sister as Mr. GIFFARD doth say is partaker with her sinnes and so to be condemned with her Al those Churches saith he which know the Church of ENGLAND in this estate do yet reuerence her as a true Church of CHRIST do coÌ„dempne those as heretical Schismatickes which cal yt Antichristian separat themselues from yt We answere that all those Churches he speaketh of do not approue the church of ENGLAND in this estate neither condempne vs in the thinges we withstand therein and receiue it againe thus At the first coÌ„ming out of papacie all the Churches in the world did approue the Church of ROME and condempne those as heretical Schismatickes which caled it AntichristiaÌ„ separated from yt Let Mr. Giffard put to what conclusioÌ„ he wil. I take it Mr. Giff. must now leaue the bare title of Church ministerie c and flee to the proofe of their profession orderly walking by the word of God which if he do not yet do we buyld therevpon as vpon a most sure foundation As to Mr. CALVINE we refer you to his confession of faith printed in the latter end of his owne Catechisme and if he be coÌ„trarie to himself in his other writinges look you vnto it we do not for the holynes of the man iustifie anie of his errours as no man is without neither for his errors reiect any truth he held knowing of the one God hath had mercy as we hope and for the other Gods word approueth it so that we beleiue not any thing because such a man said so but because by the word Spirit we heare CHRIST himself speak And you do greatly abuse his writinges in vsing them after your owne â—ense in his name contrarie to his minde and purpose and by your leaue wrasting them to your owne iudgment deceiuing others therby In his confession he affirmeth ther is no true Sacrament with promise as I do remember but where the Minister hath a lawfull office and outward calling to administer so that all his Argumentes must be vnderstood of such a Church as haue a lawful ministerie in office entrance and administration and cannot be applyed to yours Moreouer he reasoned against the Anabaptistes and such as held an integritie and perfection in the Church and separated for euerie sinne coÌ„mitted without due seeking of redresse And if he erred in these or anie other doctrines we do not therfore hold them presently to be no Church in which he was Minister or which did in like ignorance receiue the said doctrines it is obstinacie in error that only deserueth casting off and that by due order As for most of your places expouÌ„ded by his mouth now receiued by you to maintaine open sinne to coÌ„municate with the open knowne transgressours they are so coÌ„mon
vvrship to bynde the conscience to seeke righteousnes forgeuenes of sinne merit in them or against such rules of gouernment as God hath set to be perpetuall This is true but this is not all for the lawe is generall against all inventions traditions constitutions vvhatsoeuer God hath not commanded as the second Commandment doth also teach Thou shalt not make to thy self so y t God hath left nothing to be layde vpon his Church by coÌ„mandement which he hath not coÌ„manded And therfore that place of the Apostle to the Gal. 3. 15. must be better pervsed If it be but a mans Testament vvhen yt is confirmed no man doth abrogate yt or superordeine anie thing to yt CHRISTS Testament then being much more perfect his vvhole minde for the ordering of his house manifested therin it is wicked presumption to alter the ordinances thereof or to holde them vnmeete or vnsufficient for anie age or estate Well Mr. GIFF. coulde nowe bee content thus far to limit the povver of the Church namelie to haue her subiect and obedient to his voice but that he supposeth there may be lawes ecclesiastical made of things in themselues indifferent that where the scripture hath commanded such things to be vsed at our libertie for order for comelynes edification and glorye of God as matters of place time and such circumstance But hee here mistaketh his text for the Lorde commandeth by the Apostle in that place 1 Corint 14. that those publique busines and exercises of the assemblies shoulde be done in order in comlynes to edifijng and doth not leaue somthing to bee commanded vvhich the maister buylders hath not prescribed For to binde those thinges by lawe vvhich God hath not bound in his worship wee are to add new traditious to bring vs into bondage of the creatures vvhich the same Apostle denyeth euer to bee brought into bondage vnto 1 Corint 6. 12. in his owne person teaching vs so to walke the Lord see in his wisdome cause to leaue them in our libertie knowing there vvoulde bee no end of such perticular lawes especially if he had left it to mans wyt to make and vnmake lawes therin For the orders you speake of then meaning circumstances of time place kneeling sitting standing c there can be no further lawes of them then the Apostle hath set and as the Minister of CHRIST prescribed that al be donne to edifying in comlynes order c. Of theis to set perticular lawes vvere to break these general lawes of God whereby he teacheth vs the true vse of them and leaueth them in the Churches libertie as need requireth to vse them or not vse them Neither can all assemblies bee bound in these thinges to the same in perticular that being needfull and decent in one that is not in an other And in that you woulde haue them no further commanded then they bee needfull convenient decent c you condiscend that there can bee no setled lawe in perticular layde vpon the Church in them For to vse them so far as they bee convenient necessarie and to edifijng is the lawe and commandement of God and to vse them further at anie mans commandement were both a breach of Gods lawe and making the creatures stumbling blockes Idolles bondages and euerie way sinnefull And when the Church commandeth them so far to be vsed as they are commanded of God the Churche doth but ratifye and see Gods lawe executed so that you haue lost your selfe whiles you shoulde haue proued your bold assertion That the Church hath power to ordeyne lawes for to create or make lawes which you see the folly of being nowe driuen to another shift that in the perticular thinges vvhereof God hath giuen generall lawes wee may make setled lawes and yet but for the tyme they be convenient Wheras in deed Gods lawe is the same and nothing ells But because they bee necessarye in one place that bee not in another at one tyme that bee not at another of some persons that bee not to other ther can bee no lawe sett in the perticular one daye for all assemblies in such thinges Neither shall anye disagreement bee such amongst the seueral Churches as need anye contention for them vvhiles euerie assemblye doe that vvich is to themselues most meet most convenient and necessary in such things for the present tyme. The Pastor and Elders vvere of small discretion if they might not haue these thinges in their libertie and euen these doctrines and examples are in this point against your selfe vvhich you haue alledged from other Churches But my purpose is not to contend about mens writings nor to be draweÌ„ into coÌ„trouersie with other Churches wheÌ„ I am to deale with your present sinne for the auoiding wherof you thus rage If your cause be good plead it by y e scriptures and I wilbe so farre from casting out darts against al Churches as I wil not deale with their estate till I be further occasioned the rather may I omitt this labour for that you haue alledged one place of scripture which you suppose wil beare â—p all your matter If yt helpe you not I see not how you wil deâ—end your assertion In the 15. of the Acts where it is said the Apostles Elders and brethren at Ierusalem met about the question of Circumcision and other Ceremonies of Moses lawe which some would haue burdened the Gentiles with we see there saith he that the Apostles themselues did decree some thing for y e time which afterward were to be altered when the occasion vvas taken away namelie that the Gentiles should absteyne from blood and from strangled for auoiding offence to the weak Iues. First let vs see what the decree was and then it will appeare how litle yt serueth Mr. Giff. his purpose these be the wordes Act. 15. 28. 29. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to vs to lay no more burden vpon you then that vvihich is necessary of these thinges to absteyne from Idolothytes and from blood and from strangled and from forâ—iâ—â—tion froâ— vvhich keeping your selues yee doe vvell For one of these which is fornicatioÌ„ we haue here no question it being by the moral lawe alwayes forbiden For the other Mr. Giffard would thus reason The Apostles themselues did decree them for the tyme therfore the Church hath power to make and ordeyne lawes in things of themselues indifferent about the worship of God and publick exercises For our answere wee vvould haue Mr. Giff. first learne that he in saying y e Apostles themselues did this by the direction of the holy Ghost hath ouerthroweÌ„ himselfe for these were the Maister builders appointed of God to be law makers for the whole Leitourgie and vvorship of CHRIST to all posterities euen all the lawes and ordinances of the newe Testament confirmed by miracles from heauen deliuered by their ministery vnto vs It vvill not follow then if the Apostles had made and ordeyned some lawe here that therefore euerie Synode or anie Synode