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A78612 A pretended voice from heaven, proved to bee the voice of man, and not of God. Or, An answer to a treatise, called A voice from heaven, written by Mr. Gualter Postlethwait, an unordained preacher, taking upon him to exercise the pastoral charge, in a congregation at Lewis in Sussex. Wherein, his weakness, in undertaking to prove all protestant churches to bee antichristian, and to bee separated from, as no true churches of Christ, is discovered; and the sinfulness of such a separation evinced. Together with, a brief answer inserted, to the arguments for popular ordination, brought by the answerers of Jus Divinum Ministerii Evangelici, in their book called The preacher sent. By Ezekiel Charke, M.A. and rector of Waldron in Sussex. Imprimatur, Edmond Calamy. Charke, Ezekiel. 1658 (1658) Wing C2069; Thomason E959_5; ESTC R207673 108,343 141

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the ground 2 Because they are Harlots and will intice and draw away to their lewd Courses p. 67 68. Babylon hath golden pretences for her abominable idolatries The prevention of Schisms and Heresies for a Catholick Church visible Reverence to the womb that bare us and the paps that gave us suck for Metropolitan National Diocesan Parish-Churches c. And shee is stubborn shee will not return to you Gods people would have cured her but shee is not cured None that would have thorough reformation dare take the whole Parish along with them to the work Why should they bee washed at the same laver at least their children that may not eat at the same Table Let us take the Prophets Counsel forsake wee Babylon and go every one to his own Country Let us wash our hands of her and expect what God hath determined of her as Du plessis once said of the Roman Church Babylon and the best reformed Churches in the Christian World that are not of his way are all one with this modest Theologue Rome renounceth abhorreth anathematizeth them and they have separated from renounce and abhor Rome's Doctrin and Worship and yet this peece of subtilty finds them to bee one and the same Babylon Surely should the Pope understand what service this Separatist's book tends to do him in proclaiming the Protestant Churches to be Harlots and the Babylon to bee separated from hee would account himself endebted to him for it They are Harlots saies hee they have leud courses abominable Idolatries and what are they A Catholick Church visible and National and Parish Churches these are abominable Idolatries in Mr. P's Atheological Divinity Of the two latter I have spoken enough before to vindicate them from this charge I shall now adde something to what hath been said for the former A Catholick visible Church hath been alwaies generally acknowledged among Christians in all ages So that Mr. P. laies abominable Idolatry to the charge of all the Christian Churches that have been unto this last age yea of some of those writers that have appeared on the side of the congregational way Dr. Ames saith that the Church never ceaseth to bee visible which cannot bee understood of any paticular Church for that may fail and that Particular Congregations are as similar parts of the Catholike Church and so participate of its name and nature and those that by profession onely are beleevers whilst they remain in a society are members of that Church as also of the Catholick Church in respect of its External estate And in Bell. Enerv. Wee acknowledge the Militant Church to bee visible as to its outward and accidental form in its parts both separated and conjoyned What can bee more plain But let us briefly consider what Scripture saies to it Act. 8.3 speaks of a visible Church else it could not have been persecuted and yet not of a particular Church for the persecution was in Jerusalem Damascus in every Synagogue in strange Cities yea against all of that way therefore it speaks of the Catholick visible Church 1 Cor. 10.2 must needs bee understood of it also 1 Cor. 12.28 is too clearly for it to bee denyed with any likely reason for 1 The Church here spoken of is an Organical Church 2 It cannot bee understood of a particular Church Apostles and Prophets being Catholick-Officers 3 It must therefore bee understood collectively of all that were within the bounds of the Apostles Commission the Church in the whole world Indeed this whole Chapter treats of the Catholick visible Church All the members of Christ mystical are one body vers 12. 20. Jews and Gentiles are baptized into one body vers 13. and they are one Church vers 28. Eph. 3.10 cannot mean otherwise nor Eph. 3.21 What Church can the Church of all ages mean but the Catholick Visible Church Which though some particular Churches may and have failed hath continued and shall continue in all ages Matth. 16.18 proves this and the point in hand for it may not bee understood of any particular Church and it cannot bee understood of the Invisible Church as distinct from the visible for the invisible Church is not built upon a visible profession as Peters was and the Church here spoken of is such whereof the Keyes are given to Peter and every Minister of Christ to let in members and eject scandalous sinners Now how a member of the invisible Church as such can by a censure bee cast out of the Church invisible who can see but out of the Church visible hee may bee cast therefore this Text speaks clearly of the Catholike Church Visible against which the gates of hell shall not prevail Adde to this that all the Metaphors that set out the Church in Scripture shews the unity of the Catholike Church as visible Shee is a Woman Rev. 12.1 One sheepfold John 10.16 One body Rom. 12.5 The House Temple City of God 1 Tim. 3.15 Eph. 2.19 Heb. 12.22 Rev. 3.12 c. Therefore Mt. P's eyes were bloud-shotten when hee wrote that a Catholike visible Church is an Abominable Idolatry But hee is angry it seems at the pretence too and makes it a peece of Babylons golden cup to wit the prevention of Schisms and Heresies what hee insinuates thereby that Protestant Churches have but this pretence for it and no ground in the Word is untrue and unworthy Surely wee may think that Mr. P. sees that the opposing of Schisms strikes at his Democracy and separation and that therefore hee is not well pleased with the prevention of Schisms if they bee let alone his Schism will escape among them But Protestant Churches have not so learn't Christ knowing that they are injoyned to take the Foxes and the little Foxes that spoil the vines Cant. 2.15 and to mark them that cause divisions and offences and avoid them Rom. 16.17 and to have no divisions among them 1 Cor. 1.10 and that when single Churches cannot effect this they must labour to do it united so fully as the case will require Act. 15. What hee addds to prove the stubbornnesse of Protestant Churches which his dialect terms Babylon that Gods People would have cured her but shee is not cured is an impudent unreasonable and false speech Wonderfull impudence it is especially in such a Theologaster as hee that needs to be taught what a Church is to charge all reformed Churches with stubbornnesse in evil Stubbornnesse is a sinning against light and conviction and what audaciousnesse is it in this aeccuser of the brethren to publish in print that all the reformed Churches sin against conviction in cleaving to their Church-state and way of government Unreasonable also it is for him to say that Gods people would have cured Protestant Churches for thereby hee seems to confine Gods people to those of his way and those of his way have not I am sure put forth requisite indeavours to cure our Churches supposing them to bee sick of Romish diseases unlesse reviling of
Of Congregational Presbyterial Classical Churches and of the Church Catholick and Synods P. 25 26 WEe come now in the second place to interpret Antichristian Churches by Episcopal Churches that are the greater territories formed into Diocesan Provincial and Oecumenical Churches under the several orders of Bishops Episcopacy of the kind you mention being now discharged among us you might have spared your reader about this matter Let those that would see what is said for and against that Government read the treatises of learned men on that subject I shall onely here say to you in general that corruption in Church-Government is no sufficient cause for separation from a Church Wee must not say you p. 52. for respect to a right faith swallow a wrong order And wee must not say I because of some corruptions in the form of Church-Government forsake communion with a Church professing the true faith Your assertion in your sense stands onely upon your own authority Mine stands in the very light of the Scripture The Apostle John in his third Epistle mentions a great corruption in Church-Government but giveth not thereupon any precept for or encouragement to separation There were great corruptions crept into the form of Church-Government among the Jews in Christs time The Lord had appointed that there should bee onely one High-Priest at a time and hee was to continue in his office during life But there were then two High-Priests together that acted in the function each his year successively John 11.47 49. Besides the High Priesthood was at that time bought for mony procured by favour at the hands of the Romans Multitudes of corruptions there were also in the Priests actings c. Yet the Lord Christ gives no command or intimation to his Disciples to separate from them as from a false Church but onely bids them take heed of being leavened with their corrupt doctrines and drawn to an imitation of their wicked actions And the Lord himself held communion with them as a true Church in his life time Jesus Christ hath instituted no other visible integral Organical Church or Church with Officers P. 26. for the practice of his visible publick and solemn worship but one particular Congregation that may meet together ordinarily in the same place to worship in all the Ordinances of Gods house Such was the Church at Jerusalem there were added to it about three thousand Act. 2.41 They grew to five thousand more Chap. 4.4 yet they were all in Solomons porch Chap. 5.12 Multitudes were added Chap. 5.14 yet the Apostles call them together to them Chap. 6.2 5. And Chap. 15.4 Paul and Barnabas were received of the Church that is all the multitude verse 12. who were present at the disputation verse 6 7. Here indeed is the Hinge of the Controversies between us and our Reverend Brethren of the Congregational way in Old and New England who stand to their first professed principles owning our Congregations as true Churches but scrupling the Government of them by their Guides united confining all power of Government to a single Congregation and contending that it ought to bee so with all Gospel-Churches Had Mr. P. been such a one I should more gladly have entred the lists with him than I do But hee hath much out-grown his Brethren in Scruples and nothing will satisfie him concerning our Churches but what the Edomites wish'd against Jerusalem even the rasing of them to the foundation thereof For our parts wee beleeve that Gospel Churches may and commonly ought to consist of divers single Congregations united under and governed by their Elders in common and that wee have primitive examples for it and among them in the first and chief place that of the Church of Jerusalem in the Apostles times which is that that Mr. P. instanceth in to establish the contrary opinion Before I enter upon the dispute I desire it may bee considered that the enquiry is not of what number of members a Church consisted when it began first to bee planted But the inquiry is how it was with Churches when arrived to strength and maturity during the times in which the Apostles lived This premised I begin with the Church of Jerusalem and say that the Church of Jerusalem 1 Of the Church of Jerusalem when it grew numerous enough for it consisted of divers single Congregations as of so many parts making up one intire and compleat Church For proof whereof let it bee considered that 1 There was a Church at Jerusalem before the addition of the first three thousand Act. 2.41 And the members of the Church at that time cannot bee conceived to have been conteined within the limits of one single Congregation For the Ministery of Christ was exceeding successeful Mark 5.31 John 2.23 John 12.19 It is said of John Matth. 3.5 6. Jerusalem and all Judea and all the Region round about Jordan went out to him and were baptized of him And yet of Christ it is said hee made and baptized more disciples than John John 4.1 Visibly more so that the Pharisees could take notice of it Unto these converted by Johns and Christs Ministery add those brought in by the Ministery of the Apostles and seventy Disciples whom Christ endued with a power to work miracles that thereby they might gain faith to their doctrine Mark 6. Luk. 10. and yet still there is great want of labourers the Harvest was so great Luk. 10.2 and besides these more are found not without Christs approbation labouring in his Vineyard impowered also to work miracles to confirme Christs doctrine which they taught Mark 9.38 39. and of those there seem to have been many Matth. 7.22 Now seeing our Brethren will not grant that by Baptisme men are admitted into any other than a particular Church and there is no mention in Scripture of any other particular Church till long after this time but that of Jerusalem onely Let them from the premises judge whether the Church of Jerusalem even before the addition of the first three thousand must not needs consist of more Congregations than one But supposing that as yet there might bee but one Congregation in Jerusalem yet when wee consider from the Texts Mr. P. quotes the addition of the three thousand and of five thousand more and afterwards of multitudes and adde hereunto Act. 6.1.7 and 12.24 which speak of the farther prevailing of the Word and great increase of the number of the Disciples and together therewith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 reflect on that Act. 21.20 Thou seest how many ten thousands of the Jews there are which beleeve mee thinks reason should compel men to acknowledge that the Church of Jerusalem must needs in the Apostles time consist of divers single Congregations What is said against these Texts shall bee anon considered 2 There was a great number of labourers in the Church of Jerusalem There were at first the twelve Apostles and one hundred and eight Disciples and most likely 't is there
and let us goe every one to his own Country c. It is no small aggravation of this mans sin in renouncing Protestant Churches and declaiming against them as Antichristian that he doth so grosly abuse in many places of his Pamphlet the exhortations and expressions of their Writers so as to out-strip therein in impudence the Papists themselves And yet he is so insensible of the evil of this miscarriage that hee dares to conclude his Treatise with it for though he marks but eight lines as Du Plessis his words his two last pages from the beginning of the words now mentioned to the end of his Book are verbatim the translated conclusion of Du Plessis his Book Now how highly unworthy this carriage of his is appears in that 1. He smooths and speaks honourably of this Lord whom the very drift of his Book casts disgrace upon he being a main assertor and defender of the Protestant Church-State calling his Speech that noble Speech of that noble Lord. VVherein he is exceeding like those Pharisees against whom Christ pronounceth a woe Mat. 23.29 2. He grosly wrests his exhortation which is to separation from Rome in pressing it for separation from Protestant Churches which never came into this Lords heart 3. He shamefully abuseth his exhortation which is to close with and get to that holy Mountain the little Zoar Gods Church how small and contemptible soever in the eyes of the world by which he meant Protestant Churches in managing it for joyning with separate Congregational Churches as distinct and separating from those Protestant Churches as Antichristian and setting up a Democratical Government contrary to theirs which Du Plessis would have abhorred the very thought of If he doth not as he saith p. 95. scornfully upbraid any explicitely yet surely he doth implicitely upbraid this Lord and all Protestant Churches with owning an Antichristian Church-state and withall foulely abuseth their admonitions to separate from Rome in urging them for separation from them as if they had condemned their own standing which they are sufficiently known to have throughly asserted as Christian The Lord give Mr. P. repentance to the acknowledging of the truth and deliver him and all others of his mind from their deluding apprehensions and sinful separation Amen FINIS A Catalogue of some Books sold and printed for Andrew Kembe at his Shop at St. Margarets Hill in Southwark DOctor Williams right way to the best Religion wherein at large is explained the principal head of the Gospel fol. Mr. Elton on 7 8 9. Romans fol. Mr. Paul Baynes on the Ephesians fol. A view of holy Scripture by Mr. Broughton fol. Antient Funeral Monuments within the united Monarchy of Great Britain Ireland and the Islands adjacent their Founders and what eminent Persons have been interred Paraeus upon all the Revelations fol. Luther on the Galathians and upon the Psalms of Degrees The Gospel-Covenant or the Covenant of Grace opened by Peter Buckly sometimes Fellow of Christs Colledge in Cambridge Gods holy mind in ten Words or ten Commands which hee himself uttered and taught his Disciples by Questions and Answers by the late learned and faithful Preacher Mr. Elton late Pastor of St. Mary Magdalen Bermondsy near London 4º Arraignment of Errour by Doct. Samuel Bolton late Master of Christs Colledge in Cambridge Bounds of Christian Freedom The Exposition of the five first Chapters of Ezekiel with the other three parts 4º All Mr. Henry Smiths Sermons gathered into one Volume with his Life and Picture Mr. Dod on the Commandements 4º Mr. Calamies Sermons 4º Military Discipline or the Young-mans Artillery wherein is shewn the posture both of Musket and Pike By Lieutenant Collonel Barriffe The Art of Dialing or Court of Arts by S. M. Mr. Slater on the fourth of the Romans 4º Also on the book of Malachie Dariotts Judgement of the Starres containing the whole Art of Astrologie Hudsons Vindication of the Church Catholick visible and the priority thereof in regard of particular Churches Also an Addition or Postscript to the Church Catholick visible Mr. Cradicots Sermon preached at the Spittle 4º The Guard to the Tree of Life by Dr. Samuel Belton late Master of Christs Colledge in Cambridge Octavoes Mr. Goodwin on the Sacrament On Family Duties On the Sabbath Mr. Ford of the singing of Psalms Bakers Arethmetick Mr. Tippin of Eternity Dr. Sibbs on Canticles Dr. Taylor on Circumspect Walking Amesius upon the whole Book of Psalms and the two Epistles of Peter 8o. Francis Spira School-Books Farnabies Phrases Farnabie on Seneca Farnabie on Juvenal and Persius Farnabie on Martial Farnabies Epigrams Greek and Latine Dux Grammaticus by Mr. Clark Macropedius de conscribendis Epistolis Vigerius Idiotism Graecae Linguae ERRATA PAge 3. line 18. r. him p. 83. l. 18. for three r. there p. 85 l. 33. for if r. of p. 102. l. 13. for scrupulo r. scrupulous l. 39. for perso r. person
of Asia spoken of Rev. 2. 3. chap. were Presbyterial Churches consisting of divers Congregations which appears because 1 The Cities in the which they were planted were great Cities Ephesus was the head of Ionia the greatest market of all Asia famous among the Heathen for the Temple of Diana and there the Apostle Paul spent his labours for three years together Act. 20.31 Laodicea was one of the greatest Cities in all Phrygia famous for traffick The rest were also famous Cities and of great command Therefore 't is not probable that there was but one single Congregation of Christians in each 2 There was a great number of Teachers in each of these Churches To the Angel of the Church write so begins every Epistle Now 't is apparent from several places in these Epistles that there was more than one Minister in each Church and therefore this Angel must mean either a Colledge of Pastors in each Church or a President over that ruling society as the leading man in all acts of publike concernment and Church-government The former seems most probable and is proved by Smectymunus from Rev. 2.24 But unto you I say and to the rest in Thyatira 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. where the Angel is bespoken in the Plural number as distinct from the members In Ephesus alone in Pauls time the Elders appear to have been so many as were more than needed for one single congregation Act. 20.25 36 37. Yee all shall see my face no more Hee prayed with them all They all wept sore these three all 's imply that they were very many And the Church is called all the flock vers 28. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which argues that there were several charges for them to attend upon So in Pergamos there were divers Pastors for there were divers erroneous teachers three some teaching the doctrine of Balaam Rev. 2.14 Some that of the Nicholaitans vers 15. and what more likely than that they did it in several Congregations and others holding fast Christs name who were so many that they are required to purge out those erroneous ones Therefore 't is not probable that they were all over one single congregation onely The like may bee said of the rest of those Churches that are exhorted to deal in a disciplinary way with false teachers There were very many Pastors in them and consequently several Congregations on which they attended 3 The Holy Ghost hints clearly that these Churches were Presbyterial consisting of divers Congregations when hee calleth each of them first a Church and then Churches Rev. 2.1 7. 8.11 12.17 18.29 So Rev. 3. Each of these bodies is called Churches as it was made up of divers congregations under their proper Pastors and yet but one Church as these congregations were combined and subjected together to the government of all the Elders in common These two Chapters well weighed would put an end to divers controversies among us about the Discipline of the Church For 1 Hence Christians might bee convinced that Church-power was never committed to the people but to Church-officers only The Angels only are censured for neglect and ill administration of Government in the Churches and praised for and exhorted to the due exercise of Discipline 2 Hence a combination of the Officers of divers congregations united to govern them in common may bee evinced The Elders in Pergamos sound in the faith must in a disciplinary way hinder the Balaamites and Nicholaitans from teaching their errors in the assemblies of Christians there 3 Hence appears that the spirit of the Prophets is not subject to the people but to the Prophets onely The Angel of each Church the Church-officers must try the Prophets and those that say they are Apostles Rev. 2.2 Let us now consider how Mr. P. proceeds p. 29 30 31 32 Classical Churches are put in the room of Episcopal Churches by the effectual working of the mystery of iniquity These are combinations of congregations united by subjection to one and the same Court of Elders chosen out of the whole to govern them These are pressed so far as to take away power of government and exercise of Ecclesiastical Discipline from the Congregations For they appropriate power of Government to the Eldership This agrees not with the institution Matth. 18.18 When Christ saies whatsoever yee binde on earth c. doth hee not include the offending brother Christ promised the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven unto Peter as unto a lively confessour of him and did not therein look on him otherwise I have already given in reasons to manifest Gospel Churches in Primitive times to have been Classical and more shall bee said to it upon your next paragraph The first branch of your charge against those that are for them I shall now consider which is that they appropriate the power of Government and exercise of Ecclesiastical discipline to the Eldership A sad crime beleeve it and as much to bee condemned as the appropriating of power of government in the Commonwealth to the Magistrate which by some passages in Mr. P's Book seems to bee in his judgement a crime too If the people can lay claim from Christs appointment to the power of the Keyes as to the Preaching of the Word administration of the Sacraments authoritative binding and loosing for the Keyes go together and were given to Peter together if these things belong to the Community in the Church wee shall confess our selves guilty in appropriating the power of government to the Eldership But though wee have looked much after it wee cannot discern any such grant and appointment of our Lord Christ the King of the Church And when I read such places as these Matth. 18.18 28.19 20. John 20.22 23. 21.16 Eph. 4.11 12. I cannot without offering violence to my reason imagine that they speak to and of the Community considering withall what express charges the Community have upon them from God to bee subject to those that are over them in the Lord as to their Governours Teachers Pastors Rulers c. But I will particularly consider the first of these Texts which is that Mr. P. urgeth for his cause and shew how little it makes for it That Mat. 18.17 18. speaks of the Church-Officers onely doth appear because it is spoken by Christ with reference firstly to the Jewish Church-governours than which there was then no other governing Church in being And this is the joint judgement of the Antients Ambrose Cyril Theodoret Gregory c. and of multitudes of later lights in the Church Melanchton Aretius Musculus Bucan Cartwright Parker c. and Mr. Fenner gives a reason of it from the words our Saviour useth viz. Publican Heathen and that otherwise the Apostles could not have understood Christ knowing then no other Church governing So that the Lord Christ manifestly alludes to the Jewish and gives from it a pattern to the Christian Church First the offending brother must bee dealt
of their evil carriage c. Here in some things you apprehend not our mind rightly and in others you overthrow your cause 1 Wee hold that the power of Government residing in the Eldership a particular Congregation may and ought to have an appropriate Eldership belonging to it 2 That a single Congregation having an appropriate Eldership is a true Church 3 That such single Congregations have equal power severally considered 4 That though a single Congregation bee a Church yet it is or ought to bee also when it may a part or member of a Presbyterial Church and hath not so much power as a Classical Church hath 5 That the Presbytery of a single Congregation have power to end differences among themselves in cases that are ordinary 6 That in cases weighty and extraordinary as excommunication The Presbytery or Eldership of consociated Congregations are concerned as well as the Presbytery of that single Congregation of which the offending Brother is Paul writeth not to the Eldership of that particular Congregation of which the incestuous person was more peculiarly a member but to the Presbytery of all the Congregations belonging to the Church of Corinth to cast him out 7 That there is no example in all the New Testament of excommunication by the particular Eldership of one single Congregation 8 That therefore a single Congregation ordinarily is not a compleat entire Church furnished with full power for all acts of Church-discipline 9 That wee finde in the New Testament Church-Discipline commonly executed in a Presbyterial Church consisting of divers Congregations Such was the Church of Ephesus and the Eldership of this Church as such did commonly exercise Church-Discipline tryed false Prophets and those that called themselves Apostles and convicted them as lyars Rev. 2. The like wee might say of other Churches 10 That in extraordinary cases wee have an example of appeal from one Presbyterial Church to an association of such Churches to guide us The Church of Antioch and probably also those of Syria and Silicia Act. 15.23 appeals to an assembly of the Apostles and Elders at Jerusalem and the Elders of that Church united probably also of the Elders of the Churches of Syria and Cilicia and the controversie which could not bee ended otherwise is ended in and by that Synod And thus larger Synods and Councils may bee necessary even an Oecumenical to heal publick and spreading evils If the Church saith Mr. Cotton where the offence lyeth Way p. 108 persisteth in the neglect of their duty and the counsel of their Brethren the matter would be referred to a Congregation of many or all the Churches together That is sure to the Elders of all the Churches for to them hee saies the power of rule or Government doth properly belong Hence you may rectifie your mistakes wee exclude not the Eldership of a single Congregation from power of Government but say it hath not ordinarily power for all acts of Church-Discipline And in that wee arise from a Congregational to a Classical Synodal and Oecumenical Eldership wee have respect to the need of the Church so requiring it and to the precedents given us of the two first in Scripture which are also a sufficient ground for the latter What you say of Jerusalem and Corinth helps you not for it hath been evinced that they were not single Congregations What you adde against higher Elderships or larger combinations of Churches than those of the first step from single Congregations from the consideration of the Churches of Asia doth you no service but è contra For 1 By granting the Churches of Asia to have been collective Churches you pull down what you had said for the congregationalness of Churches Grant them collective Churches and the greatest part of your book is una litura 2 By saying that it appears not from Scripture that there are any larger combinations of Churches than those of this first form You look beside the Scripture and the state of the Question The state of the question because wee stand not for stated and fixed combinations of Churches beyond that first form but onely occasional ones and the Scripture because as hath been and shall bee shewed there was a higher Eldership and larger combination of Churches in the Synod at Jerusalem than those of the first step from single congregations the Elders of the Presbyterial Churches of Antioch and Jerusalem being there combined and in all probability those also of Syria and Cilicia as hath been said 3 If you will stand to what you say that the Churches of Asia do severally receive praise or dispraise each for her self without reflection on the rest I will compel you to grant positively and not onely suppositively that they were collective Churches For the Epistle to every one hath this close Hee that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the Churches If what Christ saies to one Church hee says to the Churches and yet the several Churches do each for her self restrainedly receive praise or dispraise It follows unavoidably that every one of the seven Churches was a collective Church and so you dispute against and confute your self 4 'T is not strange as you say it is that Christ should not speak of a combination of these seven Churches as an Ordinance of his for their remedie and blame them for the neglect of it For they were first to use and Christ directs them accordingly to the use of the first means the help of the Presbytery of each Church If this would do there was no need of carrying the cause higher if upon tryal it would not do they knew what course was next to bee used and had an example of it in the practice of the Church of Antioch To your question Whether it bee likely that go tell the Church should mean go tell the Elders of the combination I answer it is likely and it hath been proved to mean so yet not firstly as you seem to insinuate that wee hold but secondarily when the Eldership of the particular Church where the offence is given prevail not to remove it Here was no Synod Act. 15. that is an assembly of Officers resulting out of many inferiour Presbyteries P. 35. 10 p. 45 1 Because we read not of any such combination of the Churches there mentioned to become subject to the rule of one Superior Eldership 2 Because wee read of no forreigners that came to this Synod but those of Antioch who concurred not in the Decrees of it and are excluded from the decision of the controversy Act. 16.4 3 Here was no appeal from the censure of the Church at Antioch there passed no censure but onely had been a dissention and disputation and so the errand of the Messengers was to get satisfaction that the same doctrin was taught at Jerusalem as at Antioch 4 Here was no rule exercised over the Churches for it would argue a diminution of Pauls Apostolical Authority that the Decrees of the
I Answer no nor over their own Church neither But it is but supposed by him that the Brethren out of office concurred in making the Decrees They consented to the making of them or to them made and might use their power of Liberty as Mr. Cotton speaks but concurred not in the act of making them for if so they had been their Decrees but they are not so called but expresly otherwise Act. 16.4 Much lesse can wee conceive with Mr. P. that the Brethren concurred with the Elders in a way of the same nature assigning the difference to bee onely in the order of their concurrence For hence it follows that all in the Church are Rulers and guides and have the Key of Authority and binding power which is another absurd attainment wherein hee goes beyond many of his brethren and the vanity of which hath been already observed The whole Church here cannot hee saith mean the Synodical Church onely because the reason given for it the impossibility of the meeting of the Church of Jerusalem together in one place hath been refuted by him The Reader may look back and see what cause hee hath to boast and if his triumph bee but imaginary then hee hath brought in an argument against himself But you must not think that if he do shut out the Brethren from a concurrence of the same nature with the Elders hee hath not strength enough left him to prove that in this Assembly there was no Rule exercised and for that hee will but cast an interrogation at us Will they say that the Elders of a Classical Presbytery at Jerusalem did exercise Rule over all these Churches so far distant and not of their combination This being the Tail of his arguing a sting might bee feared in it but 't is quite unarmed Wee will not say so and yet hee gets not any thing by it for though wee say not that the Elders of the Church of Jerusalem singly considered did exercise Rule over the Churches concerned yet wee will say by his leave that these Elders and the Elders of the Churches concerned united in Synod and acting joyntly did exercise Rule over those Churches which appears both by the tenour and by the use of the Decrees Act. 16.4 So that Mr. P. is more bountiful than maketh for the profit of his cause in granting his adversaries to make the most of Act. 15.6 and Act. 16.4 For besides that in these wee finde not the Elders of the Churches concerned excluded but included and as one in the latter wee finde the Decrees imposed on some of the Churches concerned as ordained of the Apostles and the Elders which were at Jerusalem at the time of the making of them none excepted and therefore their joint-act of authority and rule Hee hath now but an answer to an Objection left him and therein hee comes off worst of all For to that which is said for the exercise of authority by this meeting over the Churches and accounted an unanswerable argument by most and which if hee remove not all his talk against that Synod is to no purpose that the 28th vers calleth the Apostles and Elders Decrees the laying a burden of necessary things upon the Churches Hee onely saies Let it bee considered whether there be not as much said of the assertion of the Pharisees vers 5. and 10. Which Gersom Bucer's answer in another case will suit well Quis adeo ineptire sustinuerit Who can chuse but wonder at his weakness to put forth such a reasoning as an argument and at his confidence to undertake a debate of that moment as is that which hee is upon whilst hee appears so much a stranger to the Laws of a true Syllogism and reasoning If some of the Sect of the Pharisees contending for the necessity of circumcision and keeping the Ceremonial Law are said thereby tempting God to put a yoak of Jewish bondage upon the neck of beleevers and this their imposition was not authoritatively binding Then when the Apostles and Elders say that they lay by their Decrees a burden of necessary things upon the Churches their Decrees are not to be accounted authoritatively binding But some of the Pharisees c. Ergo. This is his sad arguing of the deplorableness of which I need not any farther inform any intelligent Reader But there is nothing like a good courage and therefore hee concludes bee it how it may Thus you see how hard it will be to grant any more with Scripture warrant if we should grant Classical Elderships and combinations Which difficulty I suppose those that have considered what hath been said do not see at all But lest men should take his Supposition of Classical Elderships for a grant hee now returns to renounce them and tells us 1 That hee hath proved the most numerous Churches to have been congregational To which I answer I have disproved it 2 That they are called severally by the name of Church in the singular that is alwaies or else hee saies nothing Witness say I the seven Churches of Asia concerning each of which his words have been made to grant that it is said without reference to or reflection upon the rest hear what the Spirit saith unto the Churches 3 That the numerous Church of Corinth in particular was congregational To which I say witness 1 Cor. 14.34 Let your Women keep silence in the Churches What hee subjoyns that the body of that Church did exercise the power of the Keyes and that the Apostle 1 Cor. 5. wraps up Elders and People together with a concurrence of the like nature is gratis dictum as hath been shewed I shall adde Though the Apostle there mention no express limitation of the power of the Keyes to the Eldership it follows not that it is not to be understood for to whom should acts of rule be appropriated but to the Rulers A concurrence with them may be granted to the community in the use of their power of liberty as they speak but a concurrence with them in the thing of the like nature with the power and acts of the Elders hee will never prove till hee hath proved that all are Rulers in the Church and have a power of Office which hee will do ad Graecas calendas And if the Apostles silence there concerning the appropriation of the power of exercising Discipline to the Eldership bee an argument for the communities like power then the sole mention of the Angels of the Churches Rev. chap. 2. and 3. who are commended for blamed upon the neglect of and exhorted to exercise Church-Discipline is an argument against the communities like power therein and a far stronger argument against it than the other is for it in regard that here the Holy Ghost appropriateth the power and there hee doth not and so by this place the other is to bee expounded Neither hath any known Writer of note in the Church for these sixteen hundred years past until some of the late risen
looked upon as Churches in point of salvation another to bee looked upon as Churches in respect of outward constitution c. For if they are not to bee looked upon as Churches in respect of outward constitution they are not to bee looked upon as Churches at all unless hee can make it appear that beleevers out of Church-order make up Churches and that there are many mystical Churches And if reformed Churches are to be looked upon as Churches in point of salvation they looking to no other way of salvation but by the bloud of the Lamb and he can give the right hand of fellowship to them on that account hee thereby asserts their Churchstate and separates practically from them therefore without sufficient ground For if they are Churches in point of salvation they have the essentials of Church-order and are not to bee separated from The Protestants would not have separated from the Church of Rome if they could have looked upon her especially after the Sanctions of the Trent Council as a Church in point of Salvation looking to no other way of salvation but by the blood of the Lamb. So that notwithstanding his distinctions Mr. P's doctrine doth absolutely null all the Reformed Churches and all Churches that have disowned Papal Rome from the rise of Antichrist to this last age And thereby denyeth that there hath been a true Ministery and a true Church-state during many hundreds of years since Christ in the world Directly contrary to Matth. 28.19 20. Eph. 4.11 12 13. Rev. 11.1 2. Rev. 14.1 8. Eph. 3.21 To the instances which hee brings of Churches of his way ushering them in with a boast of their setting up Christs order in the face and to the teeth of the beast though in danger to bee slain for it I Answer that surely the Congregational Brethren of our daies have not waded through such great dangers in contending for and setting up their popular government They have had and have as much countenance from the Civil Powers as they can desire On which account many have struck in with Independency to bee of the rising side Surely there are some whom they know that have out-gone them in sufferings for cleaving to their principles and whilst the Powers did oppose their way heretofore flying to New-England and Holland was not a setting up of the order which they deemed to bee Christ's in the face and to the teeth of the Beast But to his instances I suppose that Congregation in Queen Marie's daies to have consisted of holy persons but cannot from the relation that History gives us of it see upon what grounds hee presumes them to have been a party of his own way in point of order and government Mr. Bentham their last Minister is there said to have been soon after Bishop of Coventry and Litchfield and therefore in all probability no Independent As to the hundred persons in Queen Elizabeths daies which Mr. Cotton mentions I should have liked their witnessing against the corruptions in the Church so far forth as their call would bear them out but if they separated from the Congregations in England in general as no true Churches no man is able to prove their separation lawful by the word of God and the words of the same Mr. Cotton pag. 14. of that book will condemn them where hee saith Mr. Robinsons denial of the Parishional Congregations in England to bee true Churches was never received into any heart from thence to infer a nullity of their Church-state Neither was our departure from them even in those evil times a separation from them as no Churches So that grant these two companies to have been Independent Churches yet if they separated from the Churches of England as no true Churches they were in Mr. Cottons judgement so farre in an errour and much more is Mr. P. for nulling all the reformed Churches in the world whereby he maketh his Independentism to become Donatism Hee addeth to justify himself Wee must not for respect to a right faith swallow a wrong Order hath not the letting go the right Order p. 52. let in a wrong faith Yes it hath indeed by those of your way most evidently For whereas the word of God placeth most evidently the power of Church-government in the Officers of the Church as hath been above proved your letting go this Gospel Order and bringing in the room of it a phantastick Democratical government strange to the word of God hath let in a wrong faith with a witnesse for at this back door have entered all the rabble of Sectaries Anabaptists now generally at least semi-Papists Seekers Quakers and Fifth-Monarchy-men of the last edition enemies to Magistratical and Ministerial power as their seditious Pamphlets Sermons and practices tending to imbrew the State in blood and Church in confusion do witness Object 2 It will be said this laies a ground to question all the Ordinances that have been administered in any other way P. 52. to 55 than that which you press for whether they are to be counted null and void Answ Some Ordinances have been corrupted in the essentials of them as the Lords Supper in the Popish-Churches and when so they become no Ordinances and of no efficacy Others were circumstantially corrupted onely as Baptism and when so though wee have cause to be humbled yet wee cannot reject the Ordinance When 't is promised that the Woman should be nourished in the Wilderness Rev. 12.6 it must needs imply that there should be some Ordinances preserved from corruption in their essentials and that Gods people should be accepted in the use of them Yet that is no argument against coming out of the Wilderness no more is the validness of Ordinances in the Episcopal Classical Parochial Churches against separating from them And this separation doth not require rebaptization for 1 The Scripture speaks nothing of it 2 Wee must either own our Baptism received in the Catholick visible Church of Rome the Mother or in the Diocesan or National Churches the Harlot Daughters or else wee must conclude that the Churches owned of God during the four and twenty months of Antichrist of which Rev. 11.4 shall want utterly the initiatory seal of the New Testament and of this wee finde no president or hint in Scripture Or else there must be an extraordinary way of reviving the lost Ordinance of Baptism in these Churches and of this I know neither promise nor experience for these hundreds of years since there have been such Churches Therefore the first must be granted for from the Churches rest till the Wilderness began to set up particular visible Churches by the Waldenses and Albigenses 't is rare to finde a man that would acknowledge any other Church than the Beast and his Images that would acknowledge a particuliar visible Church Answ It is hard for Mr. P. to manage an argument that doth not fall back upon his cause In answering this second Objection hee overthrows what hee had said and
words clearly import to any man that will read there that the cause was not onely clear unto them whom hee endeavours to interest in carrying on the work of reformation but clear in it self and not as to its matter dubious and obscure being such as all the Churches on earth but the Romish would own For shame leave off your abusing of Authors at which work I have caught you more than once or twice in this Treatise Again your Parenthesis is full fraught with all seeds of Rebellion against the State as well as of confusion in the Church of God For if men may freely follow the apprehensions of their own misguided judgements and deluded fancies against the mind of the Magistrate and consent of the Church of God How shall our Religion or Liberties Persons Estates or Lives bee secured to us Probably the late fift-Monarchy-Traitours had read your Treatise I find a harmony between their remonstrance and your book in many passages and I am sure they will assert the cause they undertook was clear to them and then your parenthesis bears them out they needed not to expect any consent You now conclude notwithstanding all Objections Let those whose hearts God hath raised up go up and build his house Get wee our brethren p. 64. if we can along with us but let us not delay our duty Indeed reformation-work is blessed work but people had need to have better guides than you in it lest they mistake their way and whilst they think they are flying from Babylon they fly indeed into it for thither your way drives though I suppose you perceive it not Babylon and you are farther agreed than all men are aware of 1 The Pope cries down all Churches as Antichristian and heretical but his own especially Protestant Churches Mr. P. proclaimes all Churches that are not of his way to bee Antichristian and especially the Western reformed Churches called Protestants to bee Babylon-Harlots c. 2 Mr. P. is an earnest contender for Democratical and against Presbyterial Government The Pope hee hates a Scripture Presbytery at his heart but favours by his agents Democratical government hoping to work out his own designes by it And therefore his disguised Agents insinuate into Independent congregations and strengthen them in their way of independency and separation as that which best helps on their work and gives them the greatest advantage for the sowing of their bad seed Hence have proceeded from such Congregations Anabaptists c. with Popish doctrines and arguments in their mouths Therefore let Mr. P. beware lest a blind zeal betray him and that instead of a Reformer hee prove a Deformer leading men to Rome whilst hee calls upon them to come out of it for men of his understanding spirit and confidence are usually in danger to prove such in the end Consider wee now his reasons for separation from our Churches The Reasons of the point are 1 Because Antichrists Churches are sin The great Beast spoken of Rev. 13 1 2. is the Vniversal visible Church of Rome It cannot bee meant of the Roman Pagan nor Christian Empire nor of Antichrist which is the other beast vers 11. hee is one of the heads but not the Beast it self Antichrist causeth an image to be made to the first Beast vers 14. that is to set a Church in every Nation c. that may have the likenesse of the Roman Church viz. Metropolitan National Diocesan Cathedral and Provincial Churches as Mr. Cotton shews on Rev. 13. and these are the living Characters of the first Beast the Catholick visible Church of Rome and so the image and the Parishes are but reliques of them Protestant Churches are it seems Antichrist his Churches and SIN in the abstract if Mr. P. may bee judge If hee can prove them to bee so they are no doubt to bee separated from but hitherto hee hath not come neer it Here hee seems to summe up his grounds of so bold an assertion which arise from an interpretation of Rev. 13. This Chapter hath alwaies much perplext Interpreters to make out what is meant by these two Beasts both because of what is said of them and because they seem to bee spoken of as but one Beast vers 18. and chap. 17. Some will have the first Beast to bee the Roman Pagan Empire the second the Pope But the stream of Interpreters generally understand them to bee one and the same beast the Pope of Rome under a double notion and Bellarmine himself Per unam exprimitur Antichristus ratione Regiae potestatis tyrannidis per alteram ratione magicae artis qua callidè homines seducet judgeth that the same Antichrist is meant by both indifferent respects But however it be it may easily bee made to appear that the first beast cannot mean as Mr. Cotton and Mr. P. from him would have it the Catholick visible Church of Rome 1 Because such a Church supposeth an Vniversal visible head for these are relates But there was no universal visible head untill long after the time of the wound which Mr. Cotton mentions the year 415 For Phocas conferred the universal headship on Boniface the third in the year 606. and not long before that Gregory disclaimeth such a title and power 2 Because the setting of Diocesan c. See the end of Sect. 5. Churches in every nation cannot bee a making of an Image to the Catholick visible Church of Rome Since these as Papal are parts of that Church and help to make it up And that the Image will then bee more perfect than the Original or pattern For the Catholick visible Church of Rome was never such in that manner and measure before as after the wound Yea the Visible Catholickness of the Church of Rome hath little or no appearance at all in Historie before that time of the wound 3 Because the things predicated of this first Beast vers 2. are no way applicable to the Catholick visible Church of Rome especially before that time of the wound The power of a Bear and of a Lyon and of the Dragon giving it his seat and great authority cannot bee found in History to have been possessed and exercised by the Catholick Visible Church of Rome before that time And a man must speak meer dreams that will undertake to make what is said of the first Beast unto the rise of the second vers 11. to suit to the universal Visible Church of Rome before that rising of the second 4 Because the Text expresly distinguisheth between the Beast that exerciseth Soveraign rule and authority and those that are under his rule and Government Hee is set forth vers 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. Those under his rule are set forth by their admiring of him and worshipping and subjecting to him vers 3 4 7 8. and these make up the Roman Catholick Visible Church Mr. P's foundation therefore is found to bee null and so consequently his inferences from it fall to
either not at all Ordained or are ordained only by the People when they might have been and might be ordained by a Presbytery of preaching Elders either they are no Ministers at all or their Ministry is more liable to the charge of Antichristianism than the Ministry of any of the Protestant Churches For proof hereof let it be considered that as Ordination is by the Word rendered necessary when it may be had for the constituting of a Gospel-Ministry so there is no rule for any other way of Ordination of Ministers left us in the Word of God neither by command nor yet by example but only by a Presbytery of preaching Elders either extraordinary or ordinary or mixt By a Presbytery of preaching Elders was Ordination always conferred in Primitive times on the Officers of the Church All the texts that speak of Ordination will bear witness to this truth Acts 6.6 Acts 13.1 2 3. Acts 14.23 1 Tim. 4.14 5.22 2 Tim. 1.6 Tit. 1.5 Church-officers extraordinary or ordinary are the persons ordaining in all these places There cannot be one text of Scripture produced so much as for the concurrence of private Beleevers with Officers extraordinary or ordinary in the act of ordaining any though the lowest Officer in the Church Therefore the London Ministers assertion holds good Ordination of Ministers by the People is a perverting of the Ordinance of God and of no more force than Baptism administred by a Midwife or the consecration of the Elements in the Lords Supper by a person out of office And since Ordination of Ministers by Ministers of the Gospel is the only way of ordination warranted in the Word as the former texts prove then Ordination of Ministers by the People must needs be an Antichristian way of Ordination because it wholly crosseth Christs rules for Ordination given us in the New Testament What is pleaded for unordained persons assuming the holy Office of the Ministry may be easily answered 1 Many of them are gifted for the Ministry Ans 1. But who hath made trial of their abilities That they should be their own Judges in this case is unreasonable that People ordinarily are not able to judge of their gifts is certain Who so meet to judge of their fitness as Ministers and is not this work appropriated to them 1 Tim. 3.2 8 9 10 14 15. compared 5.22 Ans 2. Suppose their gifts and qualifications for the Ministry were proved and approved yet Ordination is necessary ordinarily to invest them into office The Apostles were endowed with choyce abilities for the work of the Ministry yet they take not upon them to be Preachers of the Gospel until they are invested into office by Jesus Christ Mark 6.7 to 14. So also the seventy Disciples preach not the Gospel until they have a special Commission from Christ Luk. 10.1 to 12. Timothy and Titus must have sufficient proof of mens abilities and qualifications for the Ministry and then such persons must be invested with Office by imposition of the hands of the Presbytery This is Gods way and in it those that would serve him should desire to bee found Wheresoever saith Calvin there is a Church of God In Jer. 23.21 it hath its Laws and certain Rules of Government and there no man ought to thrust himself into the work of the Ministry although he should equal all the Angels in holiness How God hath born witness against such persons as have boldly thrust themselves into this holy Office without a lawful call and investiture as he did against Uzziah 2 Chro 26.19 20 who though many of them were before reputed sober and Orthodox Christians yet soon after have been given up to beleeve a lye and are become instruments to draw off others into the erroneous and crooked paths of Socinianism Arminianism Papism Quakism Atheism is most sad to consider From such Prophets as these is profaneness gone forth into the Land 2 They are not only gifted but they find in themselves a strong inclination and desire to preach the Gospel that they may win souls to God Therefore they may take upon them the Ministry Ans What Anabaptist Arminian Quaker may not thus plead And indeed in the Schools of Arminians and Anabaptists was this Doctrin tending to confusion and all errour hatched The Remonstrants judge it lawful for any one to preach the Word Episcop Thes privat Disp 26. Thes 5. Zanch. in Praecept 4. if he be fit to teach and the People desire it and the Anabaptists in Zanchy's time thought it lawful for any man to take upon him the Ministry if he thought hee had the call of the Spirit Those that desire to win Souls to God ought to desire if they are fit for it to be invested with office in the way of Christ by a lawful Ordination by a Presbytery of preaching Elders What is pleaded for Popular Ordination comes now to bee considered The Answerers of Jus Div. Min. Evangelici lay down this proposition In a Church that hath no Officers in it some Beleevers may lawfully and warrantably Ordain without Officers The Preacher sent p. 323. to p. 330 This they endeavour to prove by six Arguments Arg. 1. To hold that some Beleevers may not lawfully and warrantably ordain Officers in a Church that hath none in it would necessarily and unavoidably inferre Ordination to be in such a case unattainable therefore it is contrary to sound Doctrin and not to be asserted For the Antecedent they say There are no Officers on earth authorized or appointed by Christ to Ordain in case a Church hath no Officers in it any more than Beleevers without Officers In regard the special rules and examples left in the Gosp●l about Ordination give no more warrant to Officers to ordain in such a Church than Beleevers without them For either they were extraordinary Officers that ordained or had an extraordinary Call to ordain There is no precept for or example of any ordinary Officer acting in Ordination out of the particular Church he is over upon any ordinary call in any one text Ans This Argument is built upon a false Hypothesis That the Churches of the Gospel are Congregational only which I have disproved before VVere our Churches generally conformed to the Gospel-pattern divers single Congregatious being united in one compleat Church after the constitution of the Church of Jerusalem Corinth Rome the Churches of Asia c. this case would hardly fall out that is mentioned For though the Officers of a single Congregation might fail yet there would still be a sufficient Presbytery left in that Presbyterial Church to Ordain others in their room But take the case as it is these Brethren fall short of proving their Argument for 1 Suppose that all the Officers mentioned as Ordainers in other Churches in the New Testament were as to their Office or Call extraordinary yet how in-consequent must it needs be that therefore the People may ordain All the precepts and examples hold