to the last Conference where our Author reasons to this effect THE Protestants imagine they excuse themselves from Schism by alledging that they left a Corrupt part of the Church meaning the Roman and Reform'd themselves That the Schism is theirs who caus'd it that they are united to all Churches in Charity and in the unity of the Catholick Church being with them in all things in which they are obliged to be with them And in the rest they are hindred from external Communion by the sinful Conditions which a particular Church puts upon them The Socinians say the same thing for themselves with reference to other Communions besides the Roman therefore the Protestant justifies the Plea of the Socinian in Relation to Schism The same Answer serves for the same Objection Socinians say as Protestants do but the reason is on the side of the latter and not on the former And our Author himself with respect to his Instance of the Divinity of the Son of God will by no means say that the Sociâ—…ians who make that Article where impos'd a sinful condition of Communion can by saying so excuse themselves from Schism whilst they any where refuse external Communion upon the pretence of that Article as not Christian. A Romanist cannot say that it is not sufficiently propos'd to the Socinians and that it was never in their power to be convinc'd If they will turn this upon us with reference to our not separating from them but standing where we were after having in Christian and Legal manner also thrown off the Corruptions which were unagreeable to the Primitive Christianity we will try it over again with them by Scripture Antiquity and Reason and the Impartial World shall judge if it pleases Whether the Additional Articles in the Creed of Pope Pius are of God or Men. For this point of Schism as here manag'd the reasoning of this Fifth Conference was long ago confuted by Mr. Chillingworth But our Author did not condescend to take notice of it though he cites many other Words of Mr. Chillingworth not far from these But a Cunning Marks-Man will not put that into his Gun which may make it Recoil However I shall be bold to produce the Words which he in all probability did studiously omit Whereas D. Potter says there is a great difference between a Schism from them and a Reformation of ourselves This you say is a quaint Subtilty by which all Schism and Sin may be as well excused It seems then in your Judgment that Thieves and Adulterers and Murtherers and Traytors may say with as much probability as Protestants that they do no hurt to others but only Reform themselves But then methinks it is very strange that all Protestants should agree with one consent in this defence of themselves from the imputation of Schism And that to this day never any Thief or Murtherer should have been heard of to make use of this Apology And then for Schismatiques I would know whether Victor Bishop of Rome who Excommunicated the Churches of Asia for not conforming to his Church in keeping Easter whether Novatian that divided from Cornelius upon pretence that himself was elected Bishop of Rome when indeed he was not whether Felicissimus and his Crew that went out of the Church of Carthage and set up Altar against Altar because having fallen in persecution they might not be restored to the Peace of the Church presently upon the Intercession of the Confessors whether the Donatists who divided from and damned all the World because all the World would not Excommunicate them who were accused only and not convicted to have been Traditors of the Sacred Books whether they which for the slips and infirmities of others which they might and ought to Tolerate or upon some difference in matters of Order and Ceremony or for some Error in Doctrine neither pernicious nor hurtful to Faith or Piety separate themselves from others or others from themselves or lastly whether they that put themselves out of the Churches Unity and Obedience because their Opinions are not approved there but reprehended and confuted or because being of impious Conversation they are impatient of their Churches Censure I would know I say whether all or any of these may with any Face or without extream Impudency put in this Plea of Protestants and pretend with as much likelyhood as they that they did not separate from others but only reform themselves But suppose they were so impudent as to say so in their own Defence falsly doth it follow by any good Logick that therefore this Apology is not to employ'd by Protestants who may say so truly We make say they no Schism from you but only a Reformation of ourselves This you reply is no good justification because it may be pretended by any Schismatique Very true any Schismatique that can speak may say the same Words as any Rebel that makes Conscience the Cloak of his impious Disobedience may say with S. Peter and S. Iohn We must obey God rather than Men But then the Question is whether any Schismatique may say so truly And to this Question you say just nothing But conclude because this defence may be abused by some it must be used by none As if you should have said S. Peter and S. Iohn did ill to make such an Answer as they made because impious Hypocrites might make use of the same to palliate their Disobedience and Rebellion against the Lawful Commands of Lawful Authority The Conclusion AFter all this causeless finding fault with the Plea of the Protestant what is it that the Romanists aim at and after what manner would they mend this Plea They will tell you This seems to be the Consequence of the late way taken up by many Protestants viz. That in stead of the Roman Church her setting up some Men the Church-Governors as Infallible in Necessaries here is set up by them every Christian if he will both Infallible in all Necessaries and certain that he is so They will endeavour to persuade you that the Great Ends they aim at are Truth and Peace And that these Blessed Ends are never to be universally attain'd without an Infallible Church to which all may submit their Judgments in Religion and by such submission preserve Unity They will continue their discourse and say Without such a Judge every Mans Reason is Reason and every Mans Scripture is Scripture and he is left to run wild after his own Imaginations And though a Man is not in the right he will not yield he is so till it is given against him by an Infallible Judge But Men must first be satisfi'd that there is such a Judge and who he is and where and how to be found and how far Men will follow him When there was such a Judge on Earth the most Infallible High-Priest the Blessed IESUS prejudic'd and perverse Men would neither be of One Faith nor of One Heart The Wisdom of God will
but rather have own'd his Church to have been a new one upon the whole Matter and granted a kind of Universal Apostacy the Protestant is brought in as in a manner deriding this Argument in his own Person or at least as contented with it as by a Socinian propos'd So then it seems we need fear no Schism from the Church Catholick till a part can divide from itself which can never be Whereas a Protestant would have first told them that there is just fear of a Schism in the Body of the Church Catholick though not from it And that they had made a Separation from the sound parts of it though not from the whole whilst the Protestants were both Members of the Universal Church and in Communion with all particular Churches so far as they are Christian. He would have added That Mr. Chillingworth's Words were proper in his own Case but not in the Case of a Socinian Church which is taken to be a Member in the Universal Church but unsound and out of its place Fourthly It may be noted that the Author of this Book is not the Inventer but the Borrower of this Argument call'd The Protestants Plea for a Socinian It has been used by Valerianus Magnus by the Author of the Brief Disquisition by Sir Kenelm Digby in his Discourse concerning the Infallibility of Religion if he be the genuine Author by the Iesuite who cavill'd against Dr. Potter's Book call'd Want of Charity Which Argument of the Iesuite was long ago answer'd by Mr. Chillingworth though this Author who was under Obligation by the very Nature of his Undertaking to have Reply'd is pleas'd to pass it over in silence Since that time Louis Maimbourg then a Iesuite wrote a Book Intituled A Treatise concerning the True Word of God Four Chapters of that little Book are spent in the managing of this Method And If you will take it upon his own Word he has come into the Field with Invincible Weapons About two years after this Protestants Plea is set to sale among us after the English manner in other knacks After the French comes the English Guide after the Foreign Expositor the English Misrepresenter We follow when the Mode declines elsewhere When others molt their Feathers we take them up and write with them Yet this is to be acknowledg'd that our Author both in his Judgment and Manners and closeness of Writing does much exceed that Monsieur Maimbourg though he may seem to have taken some Hints from him My Last Observation toucheth the design of this Book which looks as if it were particularly levell'd against the Established Church of England It is true the more general Name of Protestant is used but the Authors who are cited are not Luther or Calvin Calâ—…xtus or Daille Cartwright or Travers but Archb. Laud Archb. Bramhal Mr. Chillingworth Dr. Hammond Dr. Fâ—…rn and Dr. Stillingfleet Now it has been one of the later Stratagems of evil Men to Misrepresent the Ministers of this Sound Church as favourers of the Doctrines of Socinus and at this very time this Art is in Practice Otherwise why dâ—…es the Paper just now scattered abroad style the Socinians the Brethren of Protestants by descent and iniquity To what other purpose serveth the beginning of the long Book just now appearing and call'd a Letter to the Bishop of Lincoln For the Author complains of the Arian History of Sandius as publish'd here at London though 't was set sorth in Holland and in England twice refuted and of that Bishops declining an Answer to it which surely he might reasonably do without any approbation of so ill a Book for every Man is not at leasure to do every thing in Learning which in the general is fit to be done The Title of this Book is Serviceable to the abovesaid design by way of Insinuation And who will assure us that it was not pick'd out of the Guide for this disingenuous end That it was gathered meerly as the choicest Flower contain'd in that Book and not as the fittest in this juncture for this calumniating purpose I do not believe that this was the principal design either of the Author or the Publishâ—…r But if a Man that goes about to fence himself from his Neighbour can both dig his Ditch and cast his durt upon him he may perhaps be so ill natur'd as to think he does well to dispatch two works at a time However it be with our present Author this is certain Socinus himself taking notice of it that England and Scotland were not favourable to his Doctrine and that it sprang out of Italy Sozzo the Uncle Blandrata Paruta Alciat were Italians and bred in the Roman Church Ochinus was of Siena and some say Confessor to the Pope and General of the Order of the Capucins Faustus Socinus the Nephew as well as Laelius the Uncle was of the same Siena and nearly related to Pius the Second and Third and to Paul the Fifth And of the First Chapter of the Second Book of the Reformation of the Church of Poland these are the Contents After what manner the Seeds of Divine Truth were carried out of Italy into Poland in the Year 1551 by Laelius Socinus And before his remove in the Year 1546 he had form'd a Socinian Cabal of Italians in the Territories of Venice and especially at Vicenza amounting to a considerable number And I find it said elsewhere that in the Year 1539 the burning of a Lady who had turn'd from the Church of Rome open'd the Eyes of Men in Poland and dispos'd them to inquiry into Truth I have seen some Applications of the Socinians to the Mahometans in which they shew what approaches they make towards them I have read of Conditions of Accommodation betwixt the Socinians and the Romanists But Fame it self I think has not invented any such project betwixt the Socinians and the English Church I do not offer this discourse as a proof of encouragement for Socinianism in the Church of Rome yet it is an Argument sufficient for the Silencing of those of that Communion who charge it upon Ours And for other Churches that which is said already may be a proof of the wonted Sincerity of Monsieur Maimbourg who tells his Readers with assurance that the Persons who after the interval of nigh 900 Years reviv'd Arianism were all of them either Lutherans or Calvinists before they became the Disciples of Socinus A Man ought to have been Master of their History before he had pronounc'd so freely of them But some have an extraordinary Talent in making History It is true the Author de Constantiâ Religionis Christianae was by Education a Lutheran but he was taken young into the School of the Iesuites And after having been Ten Years among them he turn'd Socinian as he himself relates his own Story And Men who consider the Nature of causes and effects are
THE DIFFERENCE Betwixt the PROTESTANT AND Socinian Methods In ANSWER to a BOOK Written by a ROMANIST and Intituled The Protestants Plea for a Socinian LICENSED Decemb. 14. 1686. Printed for Benjamin Tooke at the Sign of the Ship in St. Paul's Church-yard 1687. THE Introduction THE Author of a late little Book which bears the Title of Seek and you shall find does both in his own Name and in the Name of many Sincere Persons make open complaint of the Licentiousness of the Press If he means by those Persons such as are so Sincere in their Credulity that they mixt not one grain of reasonable Inquiry with it the Complaint will give no pain to judicious People unless it be by moving them to pity his Weakness And a Man would imagine that his â—…ort of Sincere People were so purely Credulous seeing the Justice of the complaint is on the side of the Reformed This lesser matter puts me in mind of a greater yet of a like Nature in the Circumcellions one of those Branches into which the Faction which sprang from Donatus was divided They went about doing injury to the Christians from whom they had made a causeless Separation and when their Incivilities were by those whom they had provoked turn'd upon them they took the confidence to call themselves Martyrs But certainly those who are the illegal Aggressors deserve the Blame Those who send the Challenge are the Litentious rather than the modest Accepters And when Truth and Innocency are assaulted such as Honour them and have interest in them ought to do some just thing in their necessary defence and if need be draw their Pens in their Service Provided that it be done as I think by our Churchmen it has been generally done in a way consistent with decency of Manners and publick Peace If therefore there appear amongst the Romanists Misrepresenters and crafty Softners and Colourers of their own Doctrine True and Faithful Representers are not unreasonably Officious when they enter upon the Stage and take off the Disguise If Artificial Expositions are imposed and set to Sale in our own Language upon every Stall it is very proper for such as are Friends to Sincerity to take upon them the Office of True Expounders and to convince the World that such Sweetners of the Doctrines of the Synod of Trent have not declared what those Doctrines are but what in their Opinion they ought to be or by what turns of Wit they may be fenced against the Arguments of Reformed Catholiques If any Man thinks fit not only to Preach but to Publish in this Nation a Sermon of St. Peter and in that Sermon to reproach all Churches besides the Roman as New Trimmed Vessels Leaky at the Bottom and unable to carry those who Sail in them to the Haven it cannot be a Crime to set forth a Discourse on the same Subject without any reflexion either on such a Person or his Performance and to shew the true Sense of Thou art Peter and the safety of our Communion and the Soundness of our Bottom whilst some are in a Vessel which has suffer'd so many Alterations and Additions that it cannot be call'd the same Ship it was when St. Peter was in it Again if such Guides in Controversy offer themselves as lead Men out of the way and turn them round in an endless Circle the Direction of honest Guides is a debt which they owe to Truth and Charity If Men in Books in Pulpits in Conversation shall daily ask the question Where is the Protestant's Judge they ought to esteem it a Civility in others when they give them a full Answer about a Iudge in Controversy And if Men of like Perswasion revile this Church as the Schismatical party of Donatus it is out of decency and not want of ability that Men do not give them an Irene for their Lucilla In the mean time they have a Substantial Answer though not so sharp a Rebuke as their bold uncharitableness justly merited Last of all If a Romanist accuseth the Church of England as a Patroness of the Heresie of Socinus though not with a direct and downright charge yet from the consequence of her Methods common Duty to so Good and Venerable a Mother constraineth her Sons to appear in her Vindication and to shew that her Plea is very widely mistaken If she pleads for Arians Socinians or any other Faction of Men who have departed from the true Faith she does it no otherwise than in the Words of her Litany In that Pious Office she beseecheth God to bring into the way of Truth all such as have erred and are deceived And may God abundantly favour her Charitable Petition By such Considerations as these I have at last been moved to write an Answer to the Book which the Author is pleas'd to call The Protestants Plea for a Socinian and to make that Answer publick But I must acknowledge that upon other Accounts the Diversion which this Answer has given me has been very unwelcom As unwelcom as the trouble was to those of old time who when they were employ'd in offering Sacrifice were forc'd to turn aside and drive away from the Altar the greedy Fowls and the impertinent Flies Now in this Answer I shall for Order-sake and that I may proceed distinctly reduce what I purpose to say to certain Heads and they are these three which follow I. Observations touching the Book itself its Edition Character and design II. Considerations relating to the General Argument of it by which it may appear to be of no real force against the Plea of the Reformed III. Particular Answers to the Particular Parts of this pretended Protestants Plea as it stands divided in the Five Conferences of the Author The Difference betwixt the Protestant and Socinian Methods c. CHAP. I. Observations touching the Book itself its Edition Character and Design FOR the Book itself it may be noted in the First place That it is neither new nor entire It is the Fourth Discourse in the Second Edition of the Guide in Controversies set out in the Year 1673. If this Tract was published before that time to me it was not for then and not before it came to my knowledge But this is not the thing which gives our Ecclesiasticks offence for whether the Men of Controversie bring into the Field either their Old or their New Artillery of Arguments this Apostolical Church is proof against them The Book of which this Plea is a part is believed by many of the same way to be of very great Strength and Solidity And when a Question is moved concerning their Faith they think it enough to say The Guide is unanswered If that be a good Method a Protestant upon the like occasion may take leave to say The Book against the Popes Supremacy written by the learned and humble Dr. Barrow is unanswerable And after all this the Guide is actually answered though not in the Formality of Word for
By which each Romanist who owns what his Church does the Catholick sense of St. Iohn's first Chapter can understand no other Article than that of Nice that Christ is God of God. Thirdly Though the Socinians do pretend that the Writings of St. Iohn are to them as clear as to any Protestant and that they cannot discern in them the Divinity of Christ yet Confidence in saying a thing is not clear is not an Argument that it is not The House is not naturally made dark because the Blind will excuse their Infirmity upon it Men will say Doctrines are obscure even when they are secretly convinc'd of their evidence For Pride and Prejudice are not very yeilding My Adversary here says a Learned and Good Man seems to object as elsewhere that some who seem to follow the Letter of the Scriptures deny this that is the Divinity of Jesus Christ as do the Socinians What then This is not for want of Evidence in Scripture but from making or devising ways to avoid this Evidence Will this Author say that there was no Evidence of there being Angels and Spirits amongst the Jews because the Sadduces who had opportunity of observing all such Evidence beleived neither Angel nor Spirit And will he say that there was no clear Evidence from the Word of Christ and his Miracles that they were from God because the Pharises and other unbeleiving Jews who conversed with him and saw his Miracles and heard his Word did not acknowledge him for God I suppose not Fourthly It does not become the Author who is a Romanist to say of the Protestant pleading Scripture that in so doing he justifies the Plea of the Socinian For that supposes that the one has as much reason on his side as the other Whereas a Romanist is oblig'd to own that the Protestant so far as it is oppos'd to the Socinian Creed is the true Catholick Faith and that the Nicene Creed which is common to us and them is founded on the Scripture though the bottom on which it stands is by the Church to be discover'd whilst his Church condemns the Doctrines of Socinus as Haeretical and therefore as such as cannot at all either plainly or obscurely be contain'd in the Holy Canon Fifthly This Author seems to magnifie the Industry of the Socinians saying That none have us'd more diligence in the search of the Scriptures as appears by their Writings This is true in part and but in part for somtimes they have been in haste enough Slichtingius made quick dispatch writing many Commentaries in a few Months and doing this amidst the Heats and Interruptions of War. But I will allow Socinus himself to have been very industrious and Crellius also Some of the rest have been industrious rather as Scriveners than Commentators transcribing the sense and in part the words of those who went before them But if Men are ingag'd in new Conceits they are under a necessity of being diligent A Text cannot be wrung and squeez'd with a dead Hand and there is more study requir'd for the perverting of Truth than for the declaring of it For the true Interpretation of Scripture much more is requir'd than Industry and Study The Protestant therefore in this Author speaks of a due Industry void of Pride Passion and other Interest and such Industry has not been always acknowledg'd either in the Arians or Socinians For the Arians the Antients look'd upon them not so much as idle and ignorant as mad and impious The Fathers of the Sixth Synod were gathered together against Arius the Distracted Presbyter And the Latins call'd his Doctrine the Arian Frenzie Vincentius Lirinensis calls that Heresie the Poyson of the Arians as if it was some venemous and enchanted Liquor And the Leudness of the Arian Manners discover'd the Evil of their Temper and there was Fierceness in it as well as Leudness A Disposition more fierce than that of their Adversary Nicholas who they say gave Arius a Box on the Ear in the midst of the Council Arius exercis'd the Office of an Expounder of Scripture in the Church of Alexandria But his Fundamental prejudice is well understood that is be falsly imagin'd that Alexander was teaching the Doctrine of Sabellius who confounded the Three Persons and made them but One and he ran headily from thence and fell into his own extream It is true the Temper of the Socinians especially that of their Master Socinus and of Crellius and Ruarus seems much more Virtuous than the Disposition of the Arians less sensual less fierce and bloody For they were almost always bred in the School of Affliction whilst the Arians were sometimes an Imperial Party Notwithstanding which all Romanists have not allow'd the Socinians to be very well qualifi'd for the reading of the Scriptures Vujeâ—…us chargeth them with beginning at the Alcoran before they came at the Holy Bible though I believe that Charge has a grain of the Misrepresenter in it Cichovius the Jesuit has spoken as severely as Vujekus accusing the Secinians of making such a progress in blaspheming the Son of God as to seem to have fallen from a desire either of speaking or thinking rightly of Divine Things Let a Romanist consider of the Qualifications of a Protestant and a Socinian by the effect of their Labours in Matters of Christian Faith and if he be not blinded with very gross Partiality he will acknowledge a difference The Protestant finds in the Scripture the Divinity of Christ and the Holy Ghost and the Merit of Christ's Sacrifice the Socinian pretends the contrary If the Protestant and Socinian were equally dispos'd how comes the One to Interpret as a Catholick the Other as a Heretick And how can a Romanist believe that God gives an equal Blessing to the Industry of the Protestants and Socinians whilst the latter do not so much as pray for Grace to the Spirit of God nor apply themselves to God the Father through the Meritorious Sacrifice of his blessed Son nor to Christ himself as God but as to the highest of Creatures Cichovius therefore has accus'd the Socinians as making Christ an Idol Socinus thinks those unfit to make such an Objection who add to the end of the Books they write Praise be to God and the Holy Virgin. And Moscorovius mentions a Polish Mâ—…ssal in which Prayer to the Holy Ghost was exprelly forbidden And before the Conference betwixt a Carmelite and Stoienski a Minister of Lublin the One prays for success first to the Virgin and then to Christ as God the Other to Christ though not as the only God. But let those Parties look to this matter whom it so particularly concerns The Question I here ask is this Whether these following Doctrines proceed from an industrious search of the Scriptures by a Mind humble and free from Prejudice Passion and Worldly Interest As ex gr That Christ was not at all till he
was conceiv'd in the Body of the Virgin That the Question Whether Christ was before the World or after it is of no moment That his Blood is not a proper Sacrifice That the Holy Spirit is not any Person at all either Divine or Created That those who are not Ordained by others may step forth and preach the Gospel and administer the Sacraments That although Officers are generally employ'd in those Functions yet other Christians are not under Obligation to forbear the performance of them That Baptism is none of Christ's perpetual Precepts in his Church That it may be used in admitting those of riper years into a Church but not as a necessary Christian Rite That to hold it to be such is to add to the Scriptures That it is an indifferent Ceremony and if to be us'd it is to be us'd in the admission of those who come from some other Religion to Christianity That in the words of Christ This Cup is the New Covenant in my Blood which is shed for you there is a Solaecism or false Grammar and that there are many such Incongruities in the New Testament That it is an abuse of the Lords Supper to believe that it confers any benefit upon us conveighs any Grace from God or give us any further assurance of his favour That it is Idolatry to kneel at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper and that it may be Celebrated with the Head cover'd If these Doctrines be the results of due Industry in searching the Scriptures Prejudâ—…ce and Negligence may likewise put in their Plea as Preparatives to true Interpretation But farther in the very manner of Socinian Exposition there is apparent failure For though the Holy Writers express the same thing very differently and without respect to nicety of Words as is evident from the several forms of Words us'd in representing Christs Institution of the Lords Supper yet the Socinians make Interpretations of places which relate to the great Articles of Christian Faith to turn upon subtleties of Grammatical construction For Example sake they perplex the most comfortable Doctrine of Christs satisfaction with curious observations about the Particle For Whereas our Churchmen make the Old Testament the Key of the New and finding plainly that the Sacrifices of Attonement under the Law were the Types of the Offering the Blood of Jesus upon the Cross they conclude that God with respect to Christs Death in the quality of the great Expiation did admit the guilty World into a reconcileable Estate I might add that by coming to particulars the Socinian Prejudice and insincere Artifice in expounding such places of Holy Writ as concern their Scheme will appear to all unbyassed Readers I will instance in the Interpretation of that place in S. Iohn No Man hath Ascended up to Heaven but he that came down from Heaven even the Son of Man which is in Heaven Socinus for the avoiding a twofold nature in Christ by which he might be both in Heaven and in Earth and exist before he was born of a Virgin sets down a twofold Evasion in the place of an Explication First he interprets Ascending into Heaven by seeking after Heavenly things and Descending from Heaven by having Learned such Celestial things And to make all sure he takes the hardiness to say in the Second Place that as S. Paul was snatch'd up into the third Heavens and let down again so the Man Christ Jesus was taken up into Heaven somewhile before his Death and made some stay there And by his coming down again he explaineth his going forth from the Father his Ascending into Heaven his being in Heaven If this be Interpreting what is Perverting Sixthly Whereas in the end of this first-Conference the Author himself speaks as a third Person and a Romanist and raises a doubt about the certainty any Man can arrive at in having rightly used his Industry I would only ask him Whether a Man cannot be as sure of his industry in consulting his Reason and the Scriptures as in attending on Councils Fathers Decrees of Popes and the Method of the Major part of Church-Governors in the Universal Church of all Ages For the Argument of the Second Conference this is the Substance of it THE Socinians Plead that they ought not to receive the Article of the Divinity of Christ from the Major part of Church-Governors That it was not originally in the Creed That no Article ought to be receiv'd from Church-Authority till Men are convinc'd that it is grounded on the Scripture which Conviction they want Now unless the Church were Infallible in all she determin'd or at least in distinguishing those necessaries in which she cannot err from Points which are not of such necessity she cannot justifie her self in putting her Definitions into a Creed Protestants not withstanding they own the Article of Christs Divinity and urge the whole Creed into which it is put do yet argue after the manner of the Socinians against Church-Authority and plead the Scripture as their Ground and a necessity of Conviction therefore whilst they continue this kind of Plea they cannot by Church-Authority either justifie themselves or confute their Adversaries All this reasoning may be confuted by these distinct Answers 1. We have no need of confuting Arians and Socinians by Church-Authority seeing we can do it more effectually out of the Scriptures and if they say that the Scriptures are on their side their saying so does not alter the Nature of Truth And the Romanists allow that they say not true and they may be confuted when they are not silenc'd Protestants decline not a disputation with Socinians by the Rule of Primitive Church-Authority But if they undervalue this rule it is discretion in Protestants to debate the matter with them in a way which they themselves best like of seeing that is also a more certain as well as a more speedy way to Victory 2. Protestants do not well understand what Romanists mean by Church-Authority for some of their Doctors can by a new figure of their own make a part and the whole of the Church to be the same They do not think that the present Major part of Church-Governors throughout the Church can be their Rule because the People cannot always know which is that Part or that it ought to be their Rule because in some Ages the Minor part is the wiser and better Let not the Roman Church be griev'd at this as said from me Vincentius Lirinensis said it long ago that in the Arian times there was a general darkness even over the face of the Latin Church In the mean time they are made to suppose by this Author what they do not suppose that the judgment of the Catholick Church is not Infallible in judging what points are necessary what are not For though this or that Church or party of Christians may fail yet all cannot at once for then the Church