Nay I may truly say that even we Roman Catholicks are much concerned in it and therefore I may be pardoned if I insist upon it because unless this question be resolved all our disputes with Protestants are likely to prove meer beating of the air contentions utterly wandring from the purpose Therefore I may be excused if I take the trouble upon me to resolve it and this I must do not upon Catholick grounds or notions of the phrase being members of a Church but only the notions which Protestants and generally all Sects divided from the Catholicks have entertained of that phrase For Catholicks do not esteem any one a member of the Roman Catholick Church that doth not profess all Doctrines without exception taught by it to be true and submits not to all the Lawes and Ordinances of it There is no distinction to be made as to this matter between Doctrines in themselves Fundamental or non-Fundamental between Lawes in themselves necessary or not because a refusal to accept any one of those Lawes or Doctrines does vertually destroy the Authority of the Church of how little concernment so ever such a Doctrine or Ordinance be in it self There may be differences and even dissentions among Catholicks about points of far greater moment in themselves and yet neither of the parties be in danger of being excluded from the Title of Catholiks or members of the Roman Catholick Church because the Churches Authority has not interposed it self in those disputes either way and therefore is untouched by either 11. But generally all Congregations divided from the Catholick have a quite different conceit of the Phrase being Members of a Church And this conceit is either general or more special According to the general conception of that phrase they acknowledge all to be members of their Church or rather co-members of the Church of Christ that do not teach doctrines or make ordinances excluding all right and interest in the common salvation and thus English protestants esteem themselves members of the Catholick Church and Lutherans of the Calvinists Church and you Presbyterians Independents c. of the English protestant Church because they do not deny a possibility of salvation to one another notwithstanding the differences among them 12. The second and more special notion of the phrase being Members of a Church entertained by all particular Congregations not Catholick does import an external conformity in all Doctrines without exception and all practises determined by each congregation respectively a renunciation of any excluding the refusers from an external communion and participation of the priviledges of that Congregation who notwithstanding may be acknowledged to be almost in as good a condition as to salvation as those are which exclude them from their external Communion Thus Lutherans are not Calvinists though they believe Calvinists may meet them in heaven because they will not admit them to their communion Thus you Presbyterians and Independents c. are no English protestants as long as you are Non-Conformists Let the differences between you be never so small as wearing a Surplice Kneeling at Communion c. if these Ceremonies be established by Lawes Ecclesiastical or Civil the non-submission to them is a manifest dividing from that Church and the less considerable the quarrels are the greater is the guilt of those that publickly dispute or write against that Church of which they desire to be thought members True it is you would seem to have some reason to complain against the English Church if for such trifling differencies only they should pronounce you excommunicated from Christs Mystical Body though they must give me leave to say That by not doing so but acknowledging your Congregations to be members of the Church they do manifestly conclude themselves guilty of Schisme by such a communication with you whom they cannot deny to be Schismaticks But it would be ridiculous in you to accuse them of Tyranny for excluding you from their External Communion when you your selves will not embrace it They do not pretend to an Authority to oblige you in conscience to believe that their Doctrines are true and their Ordinances just but they would be no Church they would renounce all Order if they did not maintain the laws and customes with so great deliberation and after so many disputes with you framed and renewed Where there is no Uniformity even in external matters there is no Church but a Babel If at Communion some should sit others stand others lye along as our Lord did and others kneel if some should be bare-headed others with their hats on would it looke like an assembly of men that served God Therefore complain not but rather thank God and them if they force not your consciences but permit you to abstain from things you do not like and to practice among your selves things you like better But to expect to be acknowledged members of a Church whilst you refuse to submit to the authority of that Church in things of themselves not evil much more whilst you write publickly against them is to desire them not to pretend to the name of a Church Therefore I conclude that you Mr. Bagshaw are no more a member of the English Church then I am and my proofe is this very Preface of your Book that I now write against Your saying that Episcopacy is lawful or your being ordained by Bishops signifies nothing as long as you disobey them you are none of their subjects 13. However I cannot blame you if in despight of English protestants themselves you will needs be called English protestants For if being as really you are no true members of the English Church you were treated as such that is excluded from a participation of the emoluments of it and obliged to a separated exercise of your ill-natur'd Religion two great incommodities would ensue to you and withal two as proportionably great benefits to them and the whole Nation 14. For First What pittiful Congregations would you in a short time appear to be At present your numbers especially in Cities and Towns are not unconsiderable Whereas if being no members of the English Church you were excluded from participating Tithes Benefices and other preferments not at all due to you and had no other maintenance but the Voluntary contributions of your own party you would quickly find that Party weary of you and become rather content to hear a sermon in the Church and wholesome prayers in a Surplice then to pay so much overplus for far worse stuffe in a parlour from a short cloak and no cassack 15. The Second Mortification thence flowing would be yet more intolerable Hitherto the facility of Bishops giving you leave to call your selves English protestants and members of their Church enables you to defile their Churches by doing your own businesse in them to their great prejudice and danger In their pulpits you cry down Ceremonies you preach against their government you sow sedition in the hearts of their flock
preserved the Antient faith and Discipline we shall necessarily be obliged to a Communion with that Church because a separation from it will be a manifest Apostacy and Schism from the most certainly one true Catholick Church and consequently from Christ himself 22. Now that the present Roman Church does at this day profess the very same Doctrines and is governed by the same Laws that were in force in St. Gregories dayes will as seems to us evidently appear both from his Writings the Ecelesiastical Writers since and the Antient English Councils as likewise by the acknowledgment of several learned Protestants To this purpose Doctor Humphreys Humphr Jesuitis in par 2. rat 5. p. 5. 627. writes thus In Ecclesiam verò quid invexerunt Gregorius Augustinus Onus ceraemoniarum c. that is But now what have Gregory and Austin brought into the Church A burden of Ceremonies c. the Archiepiscopal Pall to be used at Solemn Mass Purgatory c. the Oblation of the Holy Host and prayers for the Dead c. Relicks c. Transubstantiation c. new Consecrations of Churches c. To these particulars Carion a Chronologist Carion Chron. l. 4. p. 567. adds the publick Rite of Invocation of Saints a false perswasion concerning a Monastical profession works devised without any precept of God satisfactions vowes c. And whereas saith he Gregory himself did tragically declaim and profess his abhorring the Title of Universal Bishop yet in reality he declared that himself did vehemently desire the thing signified by that Title since he took upon him a commanding power over other Churches To these may be added the Centuriators of Magdeburg Bale c. who mention these and other particular Doctrines as Novelties introduced by St. Gregory 23. Hence if our Adversaries speak truth it will evidently follow that since there are now differences between the Eastern and Western Churches all the alterations and innovations have been made by the Greek Church only 24. Do you not now see Mr Bagshaw what Religion that is the professours whereof you as far as your vote extends expose to the Butchery whence is apparent that if you had been a leader of a party able to execute your cruel intentions in S. Gregories dayes you would like a very Antichrist have laid wast the whole Church of Christ and murdred all that were called by his name There wants only this to crown your zeal that you should cry out Their blood be upon us and upon our children Thus would you have treated S. Augustin and his fellow Monks you I say that the less Charity you have esteem your selves the more perfect Christians and Saints you would have condemn'd to Gallowses quartering of members and burning of bowels those innocent persons that exposed themselves to all incommodities for the salvation of our Country when as our Pagan Ancestors though Slaves of Devils yet treated them with all humanity Take heed they do not rise in judgment against you I am sure in that great Judgment you shall not rise to condemn them for this sin 1. THus Sir I have performed as much as I promised in the beginning and truly I promised more then your Book deserved In which I found so very small a proportion of Reason employed that I may perhaps incur censure for mispending time about a Discourse that would not indanger the misleading of any I must therefore plainly tell the Reader that it was only your passion Your cruelly malicious suggestions that I intended to oppose That is your proper Engin to do mischief with to prevent which a Christian compassion to thousands of innocent peaceable souls whose destruction your passion designes does require all honest mens endeavours and care You acknowledge enlightned reason for your only Principle but I find that which You call by such a name to be nothing else but a restless fancy swelling with self opinion and inflamed with almost all sorts of inordinate passions sharpned against all moderate persons both Protestants and Catholicks that is against all that have any sence of Duty to the King or love of peace among Christians 2. Now as among Protestants You thought fit to single out only two Doctour Gunning and Mr. Thorndike through whose sides You would wound all that are not as furious against peace as your self So among Catholicks likewise there are two my Lord the Earle of Earle of Bristow Fiat Lux Bristow and the Authour of Fiat Lux against whom you have thrust forth a forked sting armed with poyson enough but wanting strength to make that poyson enter I hope his Lordship will pardon a stranger yet an admirer of his most eminent abilities and vertues for taking notice without order from him of your malicious reflexions upon him which might be prejudicial to his Honour were it not that it comes from a person that I am assured he will never dignify with answering 3. You reckon his Lordship in the Catalogue of those who have shewed the vanity and uselessness of Allegations Preface of Authorities of Fathers and Councils c. And because say you it is possible that the example of that Honourable Person may be urged against me since his present practise doth contradict his former principles I will only add this that since his book is not yet answered by himself I hope he thinks it unanswerable and will not long continue in communion with that Church whose foundations he hath so well overthrown An Admirable passage this is fit for no pen but Mr. Bagshaws 4. That his Lordship has not yet publish'd an Answer to a Writing of his own sufficiently confuted by his practise I should rather think you might have imputed to such as your self These are not times for any of his Lordships present perswasion in matters of Religion to multiply unnecessary controversies of that Nature And however your self and your party afford such as his Lordship is business enough to exercise all their abilities prudence and skill in opposing your secret workings and open calumnies by demonstrating that a change in his perswasion about points of faith doth make no change at all in his Fidelity And thus much his Lordship in the name of all Catholicks to your great grief has performed with that sincerity candour and energy that I am confident there is not a Protestant that shall read your infamous aspersions cast upon Catholick Religion touching the matter of Loyalty but will look upon them as the last effects of the desperate rage of one that takes pleasure in mere calumniating without any expectation to be believ'd 5. And truly Sir if you had taken to task the making the World believe that in your Sect Christian Charity is esteemed a mortal sin you could not have better effected your design then by saying as you have done I hope his Lordship thinks his Book unanswerable c. For shame change this phrase I hope c. It would have been an impudence not to
set pen to Paper to answer you since if you be never so evidently confuted you are excused from yielding by saying you have said a very little but could have said more and Catholicks are forbidden to yield since they have a world of proofs to demonstrat the Infallibility of the Church far more efficacious then these one or two Texts of Scripture called out by you for your best advantage And even these Texts as they are produced and made use of by Catholicks are unanswerable especially to those that think it reasonable to admit that to be the sence of Scripture which all antiquity has given which all protestants and all reasonable men do They could not foresee that there could arise a Disputant so void of reason as Mr. Bagshaw to whom the whole consent of all Ages of the Church all Councils and Fathers appeared light and inconsiderable if compared with his single reason Therefore till you have proved that Ground demonstratively that is turned sand into a Rock you are not in a capacity either to object or answer 6. And to the end you may set upon such a work to some purpose I pray please to enquire out a Book called Exomologesis or Motives of the Conversion c. where your great Lanista Mr. Chillingworths reasons for such a position are pretended to be answered and in an Appendix to that Book You will find an Examination of the Fundamental Grounds of my Lord Faulklands Discourse on that Subject These are the men you brag of in Your Preface as your great Patrons that is indeed such Protestants as you are that lay such grounds as utterly demolish the whole structure of the English church denying that any Authority upon Earth can oblige any man And this very thing I mean the destruction of the Church of England you Preface your self confesse in your Preface to have Preface been the Design of your small Treatise though written against Papists adding that Nothing can be more unreasonable ib. then this that those Churches or Church-Rulers should Lord it over the Faith or conscientious perswasion of other men who are not certain but they may err and be deceived themselves For that would be to take the Pope's Chair and succeed into his room 7. This therefore having been by your self acknowledged your Design I must repeat what I have already said That the English Bishops and Clergy are far more interessed in your Book for all the Title be only against Catholicks then Catholicks are But as to this horrible position of Yours which utterly destroys all Order and peace Let me tell You that to particular Churches and Church-Rulers if they be members of the Catholick Church infallibility is not at all necessary to make their Doctrines or Orders obliging even in conscience Because all their subjects whilest they remain so are bound I do not say to believe internally but not to contradict their declared Doctrines and to submit to their Orders the refusing of either perhaps not damning but certainly excluding the refusers from an outward communion with that Church So that here you plainly exerto Capite tell the World you are no English protestant though perhaps you would fain have an English Benefice and preach against order in English pulpits 8. Now as for that Great Question of the Infallibility of the Church which You consider only as the conceit of some few Catholicks if You have a mind to write any thing to the purpose to prevent Your mistaking if that be a possible thing give a well-wishing friend leave to informe you in general That there is extant no formal Decision of the Church touching her own infallibility Notwithstanding all Catholicks are bound to acknowledge her to be infallible by a necessary consequence of an essential Article of the Creed Which consequence You may conceive to be thus deduced viz. 9. First it is an Article of our Creed Credo unam Sanctam Catholicam Apostolicam Ecclesiam that is I believe one and but One holy Catholick and Apostolick Church By which Article sincerely professed the person declaring himself a Christian signifies a necessity of his being truly a member in Communion with that One Church and consequently renounces all other Congregations and all Ecclesiastical Communion with persons divided from that One Church 10. In the Second Place Your only Guide common sence and reason tells us that a multitude cannot be called One Society except they be joyned and linked together by a Government and Lawes common to all And therefore the whole Catholick Church being indeed one Body as St. Paul sayes and one General Congregation it must necessarily have both general Rulers and Common lawes universally obliging which does not at all hinder but that under and within that general Congregation there may be many distinct Societies enjoying particular Lawes Priviledges and Rulers upon condition they do not contradict nor refuse to submit to the said general Laws Tribunals and Governours 11. Thirdly our Lord having expressly promised to preserve and continue this Church as one Society to the end of the World so as that the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against it it followes undeniably that he has provided sufficient and efficacious means to preserve this unity for otherwise one Article of the Creed might happen to fail 12. In the fourth place since universal Experience both in Humane and Divine matters testifies that never any Writing Law or Science could yet be so expressed but that being left to the wits enlightned Reason and interests of particular men to descant upon them there would follow differences of sences and interpretations and consequently Divisions and separated interests destructive to unity to provide against which the only possible remedy hath alwaies been acknowledged to be the constituting of an External lasting Authority of Judges and Magistrates Hence it is that the Supreme Tribunal of a General Council has evermore hitherto been confessed by all Christians to be the only preservative against a breach in the universal Church and because it cannot alwaies be possible to summon such an Assembly therefore by way of provision the supreme Pastour of the Church hath alwaies exercised in matters that concern the common Faith and Discipline an Authority if not to decide at least to compose and silence all differences in Opinions c. and to put in Execution the Ordinances of precedent Councils 13. Now if You will discourse to any purpose in opposition to this as I know You have a great Tooth against it You must either demonstrate that there is no need at all that controversies should be composed and Schismes healed Or if You cannot do this You must contradict the Experience of all mankind by shewing that Judges are not necessary to end Law-suites that writings alone with enlightned reason will do the business and especially that above all Lawes and Sciences the Holy Scriptures that are in some places infinitely obscure and in plain places compiled in
a popular stile far from that studied exactness of Lawes and Sciences are most proper to have their sence agreed in This must be your task and to make it good it will be expected that You should do one miracle more which is to produce but one Example during sixteen hundred years and upwards taking in the Apostles times if You please to shew that differences in Religion have been prevented or composed and separations of divided Churches re-united by disputing out of Scriptures alone without submission to a common Tribunal On the contrary side we Catholicks will be obliged to shew you that all Heresies hitherto appearing have been so far destroyed by General Councils that the Church has been preserved in Unity and we are confident will be so for ever notwithstanding even so formidable an Adversaries opposition as you are 14. In the fifth place This great Tribunal of a General Council is of an Authority so authentick that no Appeal from it must be admitted Yea moreover it has influence not on the outward actions or professions only but even the judgments and hearts of all particular Catholick persons and Churches This appears not only by the universal agreement of all Fathers and Ecclesiastical Writers past and present but by the solemn stile of the Decrees made by all such Councils in which Anathema's have been denounced against all Hereticks and Schismaticks and they separated from the Mystical Body of Christ to which alone Salvation is promised 15. In the last place therefore the Church being one and to keep it so Authority having been communicated to it by our Lord which Authority for that purpose must needs under penalty of an Eternal separation from Christ oblige all Christians to submit even their minds to it it seems to us that it followes necessarily and inevitably that the Church is infallible Unless we would say that our Lord has commanded us to hear such a Church and Guide as might lead us to Hell To prevent all suspicion of which he has expresly promised to lead not the Apostles only as you fancy but his Church into all Truth with whom he said he would be present to the end of the world thousands of years after the Apostles were dead 16. These you may suppose Mr. Bag. to be the true grounds of the Churches Infallibility It is Infallible because it is One but it is such an One from which as Separation is damnable So that if you a Presbyterian or Independent c. have a minde to assault these grounds then 1. You must first destroy that Article of our Creed I believe one Catholick Church 2. Next you must prove out of express Scripture not only that Scripture is our only Rule but that we have no other Guide to find out the sence of it but only our private reason or spirit and what these joyn'd together conclude upon will infallibly serve our turn whether it be true or false 3. That all the Antient Church and all Protestants too are mistaken when they say that Schism to you the most innocent thing in the World is a Sin a great exterminating sin for which there cannot possibly be a just cause or sufficient excuse 4. Lastly you must have the confidence befitting a Presbyterian to say that all Christians before you have been poor spirited sheepish deceived people that knew not what the Liberty of a Subject was and that all General Councils that presumed to denounce Anathema's against the private spirit or enlightned reason have been most abhorred conspiracies of Tyrants over Mens souls 17. Whereas if you were an English Protestant truly so called but the very supposition is unsufferable and therefore must be changed therefore I say whereas a true English Protestant would protest his readiness to submit both his tongue and soul to a lawful General Council and consequently would have no quarrel against the Infallibility of the Universal Church He would admit Tradition to be the best Interpreter of Scripture Only his Controversiehumour would spend it self against the Roman Churches pretention to the Title of Catholick and would maintain that the English State and Clergy had authority enough to reform themselves without consulting the Roman or any other Churches Indeed if the Eastern Church had still been in Union with the Roman the case then would be altered The English Church on such a supposition would have had a scruple to oppose both 18. Therefore since it is not in our power to oblige the Turk to permit the Eastern Bishops to meet in a General Council with the West for English Protestants sake not yours good Mr. Bagshaw I will take upon me a little more then your Book can require from me and that is to propose in the mean time a convenient mean and expedient towards the removing this scruple and that is as followeth 19. Since we cannot have speaking Judges that will please them they may I suppose do well to help themselves with Books and for that purpose pitch upon some well known time in which the Eastern and Western Churches were united and out of the Books and Monuments of that Age impartially collect the Doctrines then taught and the Church-government then in use through the whole Church For thereby it will evidently appear whether of the Churches Eastern or Western that now differ in both have deserted that which was anciently in both 20. Now I conceive a more proper time for this purpose cannot be imagined then the Age of the Church in St. Gregory the great 's time when England was converted from Paganisme by St. Augustin the Monk sent by him For it is evident that the whole Church was then in perfect Union the same Doctrines were taught and the same Government and Common laws in use all the Christian World over Besides there are extant more better and clearer Monuments both of the Doctrines and Discipline of that Age then in any other and especially in St. Gregories Epistles sent into all quarters of the World and in other of his works translated into the Greek tongue and freely embraced yea admired by the Greek Church we may find what Authority so learned and Holy a Pope exercised over other Churches according to the then received Ecclesiastical Canons Moreover besides S. Gregories Works our own Country both by wtitings of learned men Councils of Bishops and visible Marks in the foundation of Churches and Monasteries will most abundantly furnish us 21. Now when we have found what in that age was the Belief and practise of the whole Church uniformly Then we are to confront thereto the Doctrines and Discipline of the present Eastern and Western Churches Being assured that both of them have not deserted the Antient Belief and practise because if it were so there would not now be extant any Orthodox Church at all and consequently our Saviours promise of leading his Church into all Truth would have failed 21. Now when it shall appear unto us whether of these two great Churches hath
A NON EST INVENTVS Return'd to Mr. EDWARD BAGSHAW'S ENQUIRY AND Vainly boasted DISCOVERY Of weakness in the Grounds of the CHURCHES INFALLIBILITY ALSO His Seditious INVECTIVES Against the Moderate Sincerity of PROTESTANTS and savage Cruelty against ROMAN CATHOLICKS Repressed By a Catholick Gentleman PSALM LXIII v. VI. Scrutati sunt Iniquitates defecerunt Scrutinio They made an Enquiry after Iniquities but the Enquirers failed in the Enquiry Printed in the Year MDCLXII Mr. Edward Bagshaw THe Title of your Book is not immodest being called only An Enquiry into the Grounds of the Roman Churches Infallibility But by pronouncing in the conclusion those fatall words MENE TEKEL you confidently declare it cannot be answered The destruction of the Babilonian Monarchy was not more inevitable after the writing that Decretory sentence by an invisible Angels fingers than is the Roman Churches now You have compiled and published this your Book which you judge unanswerable and to deal ingenuously with you so may I too though I be as good a Catholick as the Pope himself What would you have more A reason for it Have but a little patience and you shall not fail of one better then you expect or have knowledge to foresee 2. Yet I conceive it concerns not Catholicks only but the whole Kingdom I mean all good Subjects in it that such a book though pretendedly against Roman Catholicks only yet full of pernicious invectives malicious complaints and seditious reflexions against the State should with a barefac'd impudence stalke abroad in the publick view as fearless of a censure Nor is the Book in it self so highly provoking as in respect of the abominable Preface that no honest subject Protestant or Catholick can read without indignation no reader justify or not mislike without declaring his Thirst after the publick ruine 3. The Apostles advice of redeeming the time forbids me to mispend it by replying line after line to what you have written That therefore which I have to say to you shall be to make good these positions in direct opposition to what you have written viz. 1. That it is against the welfare of English subjects both for body and soul that you and such as you should be permitted to call your selves Protestants and members of the English Church 2. That your instilling suspicions into the peoples minds as if English Divines c. had a design to introduce Popery again is a meer acting over the late Rebellion 3. That your attempt to render Roman Catholick subjects only in an incapacity of Toleration is more groundlesse and in your mouthes most maliciously ridiculous 4. That your whole discourse against the Churches Infallibility only proves that you have nothing to say to the purpose against it I. That it is a publick mischief that Mr. Bagshaw or any such as he should be permitted to call themselves English Protestants 1. IF common fame be true Mr. Bagshaw you are the same person that published so petulant and uncivil a Libel against my Lord Bishop of Worcester and not for that fault alone have been so deservedly Disciplined by Mr. l'Estrange and so smartly whip't that the whole Town has heard your cries How then comes it to pass that you can find leasure to seek out and defy to the combat other enemies But it may be the demolishing of the Roman Church is but an excursion in a Parenthesis whilst you are for your divertisement unbending your thoughts or taking breath awhile against a new combat with an Adversary that has a great deal more zeal sharpness honesty and courage then is for your purpose who hope not to be discern'd whilst in despight of the Act of Oblivion you will not suffer either the King or any of his faithfull Subjects to forget what they have suffered and must expect but still work and preach and print almost totidem Verbis as you did when the horrible Covenant was the only Religion and Gospel of the three Kingdoms 2. These practices Mr. L ' Estrange if he cannot interrupt yet he can call company and bid them take notice of them He will not permit you to Glory as if you could once more couzen the Kingdom into a new Rebellion Never hope to find so much as one English Protestant that will once more be cheated to look upon you as the Assertors of the Subjects Liberties or maintainers of pure Protestant Religion If the Civil Authority will for ever wink at your Caballs and the Ecclesiastick leave open the Pulpits to your Sermons of the old stile and the Presses to your Pamphlets against Bishops and indifferent Ceremonies If you expect Indemnity must be interpreted to regard the future also all that can be said will be Sani Sobrii vigiles perîmus We shall not as heretofore be surprised but we make a Covenant with destruction as if we were afraid it would escape us 3. As for your Pamphlet touching Infallibility though by the Title you pretend to attacque only Roman Catholicks and to demolish the Grounds of the Churches Faith yet in the whole Book there are not quite two small leaves wherein the Church is concern'd at all either in its Grounds or Superstructure Therefore I am confident and it may be Mr. L'Estrange who knows your wayes and Arts much better then I may in a far neater that is his own stile tell you your real Design was to write a Book with the Title against Catholicks meerly to have an opportunity to stuffe the Preface with malicious glances against Protestants too and incense vulgar minds as if Popery forsooth were ready to be introduced 4. Now though my self purely as a Catholick am little concern'd in that part of your book which you purposely wrote against Catholicks and not very much in those passages against Protestants except only in this consideration that you would fain make Catholick Religion your Engine to raise troubles yet as a faithfull Subject to his Majesty and a lover of my Countries peace I cannot but inwardly bewail and must take leave thus publickly to justifie the too reasonable cause of my grief when I see an English Subject openly professing his name and pretending to the Protection of an Honourable Counsellour of State renew the old seditious practise of inflaming the Peoples minds with rage against their Teachers and murmuring suspicions against their Governours A practise that above all others contributed to the raising of the late Rebellion and to the ruine and murder of our late Soveraign of happy memory and his best Subjects and Servants the late Archbishop of Canterbury Earl of Strafford c. Here are still among us God knowes how many Sects that if any Protestant Doctours shall presume to speak or write otherwise then according to what the furious zeal of Sectaries against Ecclesiasticall Unity and peace suggests they must presently be exposed to a general suspicion the Country must be raised upon them and upon the Bishops if they not discountenance them and upon the King unless
and I much fear You will never have the honesty to imitate them 3. Observe one thing I pray You in such Protestations and writings of Roman Catholicks They do not deprecate any former faults committed because they are guiltie of none they protest their clearness from those crimes of a few desperate unhappy monsters and writings of their traiterous Masters that occasioned the severity of Laws against all They do not mention their universal fidelitie to the King these last twentie Years as an obligation or merit for which they expect reward from men but as a necessary duty to which their Religion bound them and which if they had not performed they should have incurred a curse from God Yet all this perhaps will not satisfie You. But see our different Complexion for my part though there were not one of Your supposed Religion but were deeply ingaged in infidelity to the King yet if You would only acknowledg that a fault was committed is repented of and a promise made of Loyalty for the future I should hope well and wish You might be believed and confided in for the future 4. Next as to the Clergy Your accusation Preface is most heavy and punctual when You say I need not plead for the not persecuting of Poperie c. when some that yet professe themselves to be of our Church and those of good note too are not afraid to plead for somthing more then its Toleration Since by telling us in print that the Pope is not Master Thorndike in Weights and Measures Antichrist That Papists are not Idolaters nay by affirming That all are schismaticks who upon that score do refuse communion with them they not only blemish the vertue and piety of our first Reformers who all built upon that foundation but likewise shew how willing they are upon any termes how wretched and unworthie soever to returne into Egypt and bring us to our Brick and bondage again If this be not the interest of some I cannot imagine what means the crying up of that Great Diana of the Papists the Churches Authority and making that the sole Interpreter of Scripture The Dr. Gunning upon Math. 9. preaching up of Lent and other political Fish daies as Religious Fasts and of Apostolical Institution quite contrary M. Thorndike ut suprà both to express scripture and an Act of Parliament The insinuating that we may lawfully pray for the dead and likewise expect some benefit by their prayers which in time may easily be improved to our praying unto them These with some other opinions of the like nature so far degenerating from our primitive protestancy do shew that if the Age is willing to be deceived there are not wanting learned men who are willing enough to deceive them 5. This authority that You Mr. Bagshaw take upon You to proscribe all protestants that dare not profess such a detestation of Catholick Vnity as Your party does is alone sufficient to demonstrate how much the English Clergy does neglect their own preservation whilst they permit such as You to call your selves protestants and members of their Church your waies and interests being so directry opposed to theirs 6. All England almost has lately heard Archbishop of Canterbury laid to the charge of the late most unjustly murdered Archbishop of Canterbury as the most heavy point of his accusation that he had a desire of restoring England to Catholick unity Yet there was not produced any proof at all that for that end he deserted any necessarie and essential Doctrines of his own Church the mere desire of unity was his crime A crime that he willingly acknowledged and as he had reason joyfullie boasted of And certainly that Christian must needs be full of a Spirit not from heaven that hates unitie quatenus ipsam Now what my Lord Archbishop desired and died for I am perswaded there is scarce any true genuine English protestant but does commend in him and would not refuse occasion being given to imitate him in 7. If you read Bishop Andrews his works both English and Latine You Bishop Andrews will even in his Controversies against Catholicks find a wonderful caution not to aggravate or multiply differences great care to prevent misintelligence and an exactness in stating disputed points with a most studied impartiality very oft with condescendence Nay even in his sermons before the Court in which his heart only spoke as as an Embassadour for God what pangs may one perceive in his soul when he speaks upon this subject and reflects on the aversion that some who like You call themselves protestants have from Catholick peace and Unitie Hearken to this one passage in his first Sermon on Pentecost Who shall make us of one accord High shall his reward be in heaven and happy his remembrance on earth that shall be the means to restore this accord to the Church that once we may keep a true and perfect Pentecost like this here Erant omnes unanimiter It was a restoring of unity that he so much thirsted after which word shewes that he had a respect to the Catholick Church from which only a separation was made 8. And Doctour Steward likewise a person as replenished with learning prudence Doctour Steward and vertue as any of his time he so longed after this unitie that in his last Will he gave order it should be the argument of the Inscription on his Tombe And no doubt there is but such an Inscription would make it lighter that is render his future condition better 9. These wothy persons were indeed English protestants like those You now arraign They knew the true composition of their own Chuch A Church though I must needs say not firmly built yet however erected by advice of persons in Authority persons of honour and judgment not as Geneva Holland and Cromwels Independent Church by a rebellious Army of Tradesmen They knew that at the first framing of the English Church a way was not so wholly given to passion but that when certain interests of a few great persons were complied with and several too justly complained of Gravamina from the Roman Court remedied there might be a possibility of closing again with that Church which they then only so far deserted They knew there was never any intention so to forsake the Roman Church as if it were a Babel or seat of Antichrist but ever acknowledged it a true Church though not so well Reformed On the contrarie they knew and their successors do still to your hearts torment acknowledg that all the Ordination and spiritual Jurisdiction of the English Church is derived from the Roman which therefore must be a true Church if theirs be any 10. Upon such grounds as these no question my Lord Archbishop of Canterbury not only desired as all honest well minded Protestants do but also hoped that if by his authority and skill he could reduce the English church to that primitive State before your
Calvinistical dregs and poison were instilled into it he might upon warrantable terms procure a Re-union with the Catholick Church But how should this Re-union be made By giving up to Roman Catholicks all the points of English Doctrins and Discipline No such matter But this he knew That in Books of Controversy among ten Points disputed there are not two wherein either of the Churches are interested and that most of the few real Substantial differences might be qualified by a moderate interpretation and condescendence 11. But whensoever such a business as this is either agitated or talked of you Mr. Bagshaw and your party smile and deride us poor Roman Catholicks as if we vainly framed to our selves great hopes and advantages by such good Christian designes or Writings of Protestants But truly you are deceived We indeed as we ought are glad purely for their sakes that either designe or write sincerely and ingenuously in matters of Religion But such designs and Writings are harmeful to us in our present condition and the reason is plain because they being the works of particular persons without any publick commission of persons that have no sufficient influence upon the whole English Church and State they produce little effect On the contrary they give only an opportunity to such malicious tongues and pens as Yours to Alarme the whole Kingdome both against them and us 12. But if it would please his sacred Majestie or the Parliament to allow a modest Conference not Dispute between a certain number of sober learned English Protestants and Catholicks by means of which a clear view might be given what the peculiar Doctrines by Authority established on both sides are and what place may be allowed for moderate Interpretations and Condescensions in all probability the success could not but be most happy the whole Kingdome yea all Christendom would stand in a maze to see what an inestimable blessing has been so long wanting to England and how little cause there was it should be refused How would the Civil and Ecclesiastical State of these nations be established and united in interests with all the Christian world almost How free should we all be from the least danger of being infected with the venom of Sectaries and how secure from their designes For then they would to all eyes appear in their distinct bodies it would be seen who how many and how qualified they are and permission being allowed them for a private liberty of exercising their Religions respectively any succeeding tumults would be both easily repressed and their cause appear inexcusable In a word Religion as it might by common Advice be setled in this Kingdom would deserve to be the envy and pattern to all the world besides being easily freed from many abuses much complained of but hard to be rectified in other Catholick Countries 13. And whence comes the obstruction to so inconceivable and universal a blessing as this but meerly from such English Protestants as You and Your partie are permitted to call your selves From You it proceeds that the Ecclesiasticks of this Kingdom have not hitherto so much as endeavoured to convert us Roman Catholicks to their Religion They have been unwilling to be informed what the true Differences between us and themselves are As if true Reformed Religion did formally consist in a blind heady and voluntary breach of Unity with all Churches before them They have condescended to admit conferences with Sects whose peculiar complexion consisting in an incompossibility with their government renders them irreconcileable unless they yield up both their Faith and Estates Yea for such Enemies satisfaction if any thing could satisfie them they have submitted to alterations even in their Church office and Discipline Lastly to content such English Protestants as You they have connived at your defiling altering and destroying that which heretofore was called and by Law still is truly the English Protestant Religion As will appear even by what You are suffered here to write against eminent persons of their Church 14. You proscribe and expose to publick hatred Doctour Gunning and Master Doctour Gunning Thorndike as persons that would seduce English subjects to Popery And what are your Proofs Forsooth Doctour Gunning has preached before the King and since printed and beyond your skill to disprove has demonstrated that the Lent fast is an Apostolical Institution Where lies the Popery It is You say against express scripture But is it therefore popery Do no Sects contradict express Scripture but Roman Catholicks Behold the natural Logick of a Fanatick However let this express scripture be produc'd Non liquet either in your Text or Margin Well at least say You it is against an Act of Parliament Let me ask You and Your fellowes a Question Will You be content to stand to all Acts of Parliament both as to their Prefaces and Clauses as Declarations of Faith and this under the penalty of being esteemed Papists Then I here denounce You a Papist For has not the whole Liturgy and Discipline of the English Church been ratified by Acts of parliament But what will You say to an Act of Parliament that has declared and like a Heretick burnt Your Covenant as a damned trayterous conspiracie Take heed therefore You be not found your self a papist As for the Lent fast You know that by the Lawes of the Kingdom Bishops are appointed the exacters and dispensers of the Observance of Lent which shewes it to be esteemed an Ecclesiastical observance as well as Civil So that I believe Dr. Gunning is in little danger from your charge 15. God send Mr. Thorndike as good a deliverance For his Charge consists M. Thorndike of more then one or two or three points of Accusation and every one of them seems to have an air of popery Let them be examined First say you he tells us in print that the Pope is not Antichrist Item That Papists are not Idolaters Item by consequence that all are Schismaticks who upon that score do refuse Communion with them These are terrible points against good Mr. Thorndike Yet alas not all his popery neither 16. A time was when such as You Mr. Bagshaw could both undoe and destroy English subjects meerly upon an accusation of Popery without proofe God be thanked it is otherwise now Therefore You ought at least to have produced some proofes that these Assertions are direct popery But not having done it let me advise you what kind of proofes will be expected You must know therefore that it is a Law of the English Church that whatsoever is found in the Antient Canons and is not expressly revoked by Ecclesiastical Authority in England is to be esteemed still in force And common sence and reason will tell you that before you can by such allegations as these prove any one to have deserted the English Churches doctrine and be turned a papist you must produce some Authentick Declaration of this Church by which the Pope is decided to be Antichrist and
the Papists Idolaters But that is impossible for you to do You will perhaps to little purpose cite the names of certain Calvinistical Writers that as you hypocritically called themselves English Protestants but withall you will take notice that all very Protestants have laughed at them some have been angry and demonstrated the direct Negative If you were a live member of the English Church you would know that the English Church would be no Church if the Pope were Antichrist and the Papists Idolaters For would you acknowledg that to be a Church that enjoyes her whole Authority and Jurisdiction from Antichrist and Idolaters Is she not rather a member and abortive of Antichrist This is plain reason Mr. Bagshaw and consequently the inference is undeniable That all are schismaticks who upon that score do refuse communion with the Roman Church 17. You proceed against Mr. Thorndike He insinuates say you that we may lawfully pray for the Dead Your proof I told you that this is against Protestancy must be to shew where the English Church has repealed the Antient Canons commanding Prayer for the Dead That will be a hard task On the contrary You your selves object against the Common-Prayer-Book that there is a clause in it that not only insinuates it to be lawful but actually exercises prayer for the dead And you know that within the time of the four first General Counsels received in England above twelve hundred years ago your Progenitors were by the Universal Church declared Hereticks for denying it Yea moreover that there was never extant any Liturgy or Missal in the Church of Christ Eastern or Western wherein there were not prayers for the dead 18. You go on Mr. Thorndike against the Doctrine of the Church of England saies That we may expect some benefit by the prayers of souls departed I suppose holy soules are meant Where does the Church of England contradict this nay more except you will acknowledg your self to be a Socinian and deny that the souls of dead persons have any subsistence at all with perception and use of rational faculties you your self will not be so shameless as to deny what you here lay to Mr. Thorndikes charge For I know none that call themselves Christians except Socinians but acknowledg that the glorified Saints do pray at least in general for the Church Militant Now if they all do pray for us all will you not permit us to expect some benefit by their prayers Must we maintain that all their prayers are to no purpose O but you infer That this in time may easily be improved to our praying unto them As for this inference which is not your defendants but only your own give me leave to tell you That if you believe that the Saints pray for the Church in general it would be no hard matter by one Syllogisme to oblige you to acknowledge that we may pray to God that he would hear and grant their prayers making them beneficial to us And now search all the Solemn Offices and Missals of the Roman Church mark the prayers that occurrs every Saints Feast you will find no other formes but such as that The prayer is alwayes directed to God alone immediately and he is desired to grant us such and such blessings by the intercession of such Saints And if in less solemne Devotions as Litanies Antiphons c. we say Sancte Maria Sancte Michael Sancte Petre ora pro nobis we are by the Church obliged to no other meaning then as before and we imitate express Scripture Laudate Deum omnes Angeli ejus omnes Sancti ejus c. Cardinal Perron will assure you that our prayers to Saints is only prier pour prier a devout wishing that they would pray for us And truly for my part I do heartily wish all the Saints in heaven to intercede in their prayers with God that he would vouchsafe to give you and us all a sincere love both to truth and peace 19. I have reserved your most criminal charge till the last which you thus express If it be not the intent of some to returne into Aegypt I cannot imagine Preface what means the crying up of that great Diana of the Papists the Churches authority and making that the sole interpreter of Scripture What Religion can you possibly be of and talk thus You in your own person standing alone are not a Church If you be but one member of a Church what ever it be as long as you are so you are subject to it it must have Authority over you the Spirit of one Prophet must be subject to an assembly of Prophets are you an Independent much freedom is implyed in that Title yet I believe your Lay Church will think it has authority enough to oblige you not to interpret Scripture for the advantage of that court of Inquisition the Classes of the Presbytery Are you a Presbyterian Your private reason shall be yoaked and chained with bonds strong enough and heavy enough to keep it from stirring to the prejudice of the Holy brethren and Sisters But you will needs call your self an English Protestant and yet will dare to revile all the Authority in your Church boldly protesting that it shall not interpret Scripture for you Your private reason shall over-master it Unless it confesse it self to be no Church that is to have no Authority to oblige its members to receive the sence of scripture from her you will be revenged by bellowing aloud This is the crying up of the great Diana of the Papists Truly I must needs say the Church of England is a very patient Church if she suffer you to speak this Bedlam language and injoy a Benefice too 20. But you do well though you mean very ill when you call this the Diana of the Papists Since you imply that a true obliging Authority if any where can only be found in the Catholick Church As for Sects that have no Succession of Ordination for such to assume Authority and Jurisdiction in matters of Religion is ridiculous even to common sence for it implies that to be men which have an ordinary use of reason is a sufficient qualification to become Ecclesiastical Teachers and Governours The Clergy of England challenging a lawful Ordination have some pretension to a real Authority and if they could justify themselves free from the guilt of Schisme even we Roman Catholicks could not deny but their Authority would oblige in conscience and under the penaltie of damnation because then it would be an Authority participating that of the whole Catholick Church and acting in union with it But of this somewhat more in the last part of this Discourse 21. I do apprehend Mr. Bagshaw that if you make any reply to this you will instead of speaking to the purpose endeavour to aggravate the cause of Doctour Gunning and Mr. Thorndike by saying at adventure that there is a secret intelligence between the Papists and them and that they do
mutually maintain one anothers quarrells On the other side I am not without suspicion that some even of my own belief and Church will think that it did not become a Catholike to busy himself with justifying the writings of protestants especially when he endeavours to shew that such Writers are no Catholicks though the particular points taught by them be real Catholick verities 22. Now to both these I must say that I never had the happiness to know or see either Doctour Gunning or Mr. Thorndike never was there any message or intelligence between us But my only Motive to write as I have done was to comply with that precept of God Pacem veritatem diligite Love peace and Truth As a true faithful English subject I could not see so professed a disturber of peace without reproving him As a catholick I could never hope what I am bound to desire and aim at that both truth and peace would find admittance into England by any endeavours either of Protestants or Catholicks till it was apparent what the true grounds of our separation are and this never will be known till other Sects be made to blush when they impudently and perniciously both to the Church and State call themselves English protestants and pretend to be judges of what is to be esteemed in the English Church Catholick Doctrine 23. Therefore for a conclusion of this argument touching your charge against Dr. Gunning and Mr. Thorndike I will once more protest that unless either the Civil or Ecclesiastical Authority do in time provide against such writers as you the whole Kingdom in a very short space will be in iminent danger to become a mere Babel For if it shall be permitted to such men to defame any English Doctour or Writer that shall not conspire in all the furious positions of Presbyterians Independents c. against the Catholick Church there will not be a Bishop or sober Divine in England that will not be at your mercy both for his fame and subsistence nay his life also when you can either raise a tumult or which is more dreadful a new Tribunal of Justice III. That Mr. Bagshaws attempt to render only the Roman Catholick Subjects in an incapacity of Toleration is in it self most groundless and in his mouth most ridiculously malicious 1. WEE poor Roman Catholicks could not but be strangely surprised to see such a Protestant of the Church of England as you Mr. Bagshaw are to become our Advocat and to beg our pardon saying How ill an opinion soever I have both of the Papists Religion Preface and of the unchristian waies they take to propagate it yet far be it from me to wish that amongst us they may suffer the same hard measure which I know by their Principles they are alwaies ready to inflict For so much do I desire their conversion which can never be sincere unless it be voluntary and unconstrained and so little fear their power of seducing since their greatest strength lies in the ignorance of their followers rather then in the cunning of their guides that I heartily wish all penal Lawes against them were utterly taken away For I never yet saw any Argument that could clearly evince why any sort of men who would profess a peaceable subjection unto the Civil Government might not in all their Civil Rights be protected by it 2. What a kind wish is here and a reason for it truly unanswerable Indeed here is Charity a point too high to be believed sincere Therefore to the end your Charity may be rational do not deprecate the inflicting of all punishment upon any if you can indeed prove that by the Principles of their Religion they are obliged to inflict the like punishment on others As for our Principles we protest unto you they are very innocent in this point Laws indeed have oft been made in Catholick Countries very severe against those that the Church calls Hereticks But they are none of the Churches laws they were not enacted by Ecclesiasticks but by Civil Governours only You know that by the Canons of the Church ever in force the Clergy under penalty of Irregularity are forbidden to have any hand either by Counsel or otherwise in blood And whatsoever Laws have been or shall be made by Catholick Civil Governours especially such as reach to blood if the Motive of them hath been pure Opinions of the Understanding not prejudicial to Government or any thing except a prudent mean to prevent Sedition or Rebellions justly apprehended we assure you they are not made by the Principles of Catholick Religion but against them 3. You will object the Spanish Inquisition But withall be pleased to consider that almost all the Catholick Kingdoms in Europe besides do abhorr the cruelty of that Inquisition and have often declared they will suffer the utmost extremities rather than admit it 4. This Charity of yours therefore was too excessive to be long-liv'd or deserving to be esteem'd sincere for you presently repent and revoke it whilst immediatly after you add I must confess there are two things which do much difference the case of the Papists from that of any other Religious Sect Preface this day in the World and which renders the Toleration of them very unsafe if not unwarrantable 5. How was it possible for one that wrote this cruel passage not presently to blot out what with the same ink he had written immediatly before The King and State are little beholding to you when you wish that may be done which is both very unsafe and unwarrantable and besides that may be done for Roman Catholicks which you say are the only Religous Sect in the World which it is both very unsafe and unwarrantable to tolerate you except not even the Fifth-Monarchists whose Religion forbids subjection to all Civil Governours whatsoever and commands by Fire and Sword to erect their new spiritual Kingdom of Christ which is to last a thousand years Let but Papists be excluded and all the monsters of Egypt are welcom to Mr. Bagshaw Yet he must know that if there had been no Papists in the World no other Sect among us had ever heard of Christ Behold the mercies of a Presbyterian or Independent I know not whether how cruel they are 6. And all this he writes to prevent the benignity of Protestants which he suspects may in some measure be extended as well to Roman Catholicks that suffered with them as to his own party that still grieve they had not swallowed up both He forgets what a converted criminal as if it were some honest Anabaptist or Quaker one that had been but now is no longer a murderer and seditious person said to his obdurat companion Dost thou not fear God since thou art in the same condemnation And we indeed justly But these Men what have they done But we should not much apprehend that his perswasion should prevail with persons that sure should now know us both were it not that
do him a mischief have all the means and opportunities imaginable The King of France esteems it a great priviledge granted him in a Concordate by the Pope that no particular Bishop should have power in any case to excommunicate him this power being reserved by the Pope alone 11. Thefore you do very well when for an escape to your selves You add but very ill when most calumniously to us You add That Catholicks depend upon and own such a power which according to the opinion of their teachers Preface can when he pleases dispense with them for and release them from their most sacred engagements So that a State can have no security but that when ever they have opportunity they will endeavour a change And their present peaceableness may justly be attributed merely to their want of strength which Bellarmine is not ashamed to say was the sole cause why the primitive Christians were content to suffer without resistance From which position what can follow but that it concerns the wisdome and policy of every State to keep those under whom as to Temporal Subjection it cannot confide in 12. Imperet tibi Dominus Here the world sees the charity of a Presbyterian c. in its natural colours The Christian charity so divinely commended by St. Paul has these qualities Non cogitat malum c. It thinks no ill It does not rejoyce in iniquitie but rejoyces 1 Cor. 13. with the truth It suffers all things it believes all things it hopes all things But this mans new fashioned charity thinks nothing but ill of all divided from his interests It rejoyces only when any of them fall into any defects and never rejoyces at their well doing It suffers nothing whatsoever good they promise it believes nothing it hopes nothing 13. But truly Mr. Bagshaw You have made choice of a most unseasonable time to vomit forth these most spightful untruthes against Catholicks with any hope they should be believed In the last age indeed when the criminous Writings and practises of four or five Catholicks of one peculiar Order had justly incensed the State and no way was afforded to all the rest publickly to defend themselves from an imputation of concurring with and holding the wicked principles of a few Traytours such a bloody accusation as this might perhaps find entrance into the minds of some few unwary persons But now when such practises and principles have been he artily disavowed by all sorts of Catholicks When the honourable Catholick Lords have in the name of the whole body of the Catholicks before a most glorious Tribunal made most confident protestations of an Eternal fidelity to the King and of renouncing all dependance on a forreign Authority that can any way be prejudicial to him When so many professions have been printed by several sorts of Catholicks declaring That no power upon earth can absolve them from their most necessary natural Allegiance nor so much as free them from the Obligation of any Promise or Engagement made to any private person When his Majesty himself has honoured his Catholick subjects with such a confidence in their Loyalty and sincerity as to trust his life into their hands when some Mr. Bagshaw knows who sought and hunted after that most pretious life Lastly when for the space of twenty years a fiery tryall has passed upon the fidelity of Catholicks and never could diminish it Now I say after all this to hear this accusation against them out of such a mouth as Mr. Bagshaws that they depend on a Power that can release them from their most sacred engagements is beyond all sufferance What name can be found out worthily to express such a shamelessness in a Presbyterian or Independent none of whose party ever assisted but rather used all their power and skill to ruine the King and after their Indemnity not one has appeared to make a publick promise of dealing better with him for the future Who can with patience hear such an one tell the State that it is concerned in wisdom and policy to keep Roman Catholicks under whom as to temporal subjection it cannot confide in when as not any one of them disserved the state but many thousands have lost their lives and far more almost all are ruined in their estates for their fidelity only and moreover to shew that this Fidelity was a Duty of their Religion have and ever will be ready to give all security of peaceable obedience and sincere integrity that Words or Actions can confirme What can You expect Mr. Bagshaw should be the fruit of such a passage as this in a Book of Yours but a guilty blushing in Your own party indignation in loyal Protestants to hear such as You become accusers in such a cause as this and joy in Roman Catholicks to see that none have of late taxed them as persons not to be confided in but such old confiding men as after oathes of Fidelity have taken the Covenant and Engagements worse then that and but for an Act of Oblivion c. would in Westminster-Hall hear and not be able to answer a far heavier accusation then this 14. There are but two Oaths by the State accounted tryals of an English subjects fidelity that of Supremacy and of Allegiance If the former were but so expressed as to require an acknowledgement of a Civil Supremacy in his Majesty only exclusively to the Pope And if the unfortunate word Heretical were left out of the other no honest Catholick would desire to be allowed the priviledge of a subject if he refused either And more then this not any one Protestant Presbyterian or whosoever he be that freely takes them can intend by them For not any of these will say that the Catholick Church of any Age has defind this Assertion to be Heretical That Princes excommunicated or deprived by the Pope may be deposed or murdered by their Subjects It being an assertion they never dream'd of Neither will any of those that make no scruples at either of the Oathes allow a spirituall power much less a Supremacy in that power to the King So that it is evident that Catholicks are exposed to the extremity of sufferings for not taking oaths in the full importance of whose sence they agree with all those by whom they are persecuted 15. But truly now fince the State has most graciously been pleased to give a publick hearing to the Catholicks speaking by the Tongues of the Catholick Lords c. who have against all possible objections maintained the innocence of our Religion in the point of Fidelity And since it has been a general asseveration of Magistrates and the State that they never had any intention to take away any mans life merely for his Religion and conscience as long as he was free from practising sedition Me thinks hereafter our Justitiae Sacerdotes the Reverend Judges should find a great difficulty to perswade their consciences to permit their tongues to pronounce a condemnation
as for treason against any English subject meerly for having a scruple in an Oath to bring forth the word Heretical he being at the same time ready to acknowledge as due to the King all the authority and right that the Judge himself does when he condemns him for a traytour 16. Therefore Mr. Bagshaw if You would perswade the State that it cannot confide in Catholicks You must study some other motives For we heartily renounce the acknowledgment of any power that can dispence with us or release us of our Engagements to his Majesty They are none of our teachers that hold such opinions And what Bellarmine saies That the sole cause why the Primitive Christians were content to suffer without resistance was their want of power we abhor as a speech blasphemous to the Holy Martyrs and scandalous to the Church Yet let me tell You this was a Doctrine that Bellarmine might have learnt from Your Fore-fathers the antient Puritans for out of them it is that Archbishop Bancroft quotes such unchristian sayings and words as this for one Paul commanding us to be subject and obedient to Bancroft in Dangerous Positions p. 17 Princes did write this in the infancie of the Church there were but few Christians then and not many of them rich or of ability so as they were not for such a purpose As if a man should write to such Christians as are under the Turk in substance poor in courage feeble in strength unarm'd in number few and generally subject to all kind of injuries would he not write as Paul did So as the Apostle did respect the men he wrote unto and his words are not to be extended to the body or people of a Common wealth or whole City For imagine that Paul were now alive c. and that there were such Kings as would have their becks stand for Laws as cared neither for God nor man c. what would he write of such to the Church Surely except he would dessent from himself he would say that he accounteth not such for Magistrates c he would leave them to their subjects to be punished c. 17. What think You of this Mr. Bagshaw Yet I will not accuse You of holding the same Nay more though I can demonstrate tuat there 's not a Country or City in Christendom into which Your Sect or Religion ever entred by any other waies but sedition and Rebellion witness France Geneva Holland several States in Germany Switzerland Scotland and for almost twenty Years space England yet if You would renounce that abominable principle That it is lawful to defend Religion by arms against a lawful Prince I should have a scruple to say that a State cannot safely or warrantably confide in you as You have most unjustly said against Roman Catholicks taking advantage from one or two Writers generally disallowed by us though You can not name any one City or Country in Christendom into which Catholick Religion ever entred but by suffering 18. Do not therefore endeavour to make all Catholicks answerable for the wicked assertions of a few Authors when you know they have been condemned by whole Kingdoms You have eyes sharp enough to spy even in the Catholick Church our sort of Presbyterians and Independents Yea even Quakers too If any such be in England the State may easily convert them However God be thanked their teachings are out of fashion and I would to God they displeased You as much as they do us You know we can lay to your charge ten seditious Authours for one and which is mainly indeed only considerable You are not able to produce one of your party that has condemned their horribly Rebellious principles And as to the point of defending Religion by Arms if by a Reply You will summon me to produce the particular passages I will at large informe You that during the reign of the last King of France there was by his order proposed to an Assembly of Catholick Bishops this Question or problem If it were supposed that the King of France became Mahumetan and by his power endeavoured to force his subjects to that infidelity Whether they might lawfully according to the principles of Christianity by arms against their Soveraign resist such an attempt of his To which Question the unanimous answer of the Bishops was That such a resistance would be unlawful since Christian Religion allowed no other way of maintaining the faith against lawful Soveraigns but prayers tears and suffering When will England be so happy as to see such a resolution to proceed from a Synod of Presbyterians c. It would be some comfort to see but one Mr. Bagshaw publish a little book to that purpose Never certainly was there a more seasonable time then now That would be a powerful expedient to imprint the Act of Oblivion in the very hearts of all English subjects And till some such thing be done Quis Caelum terris non misceat to read from such an one as Mr. Bagshaw's pen a Lecture of Fidelity to the King and a warning given to the State who the only persons are not fit to be confided in 19. You add Mr. Bagshaw But could our Papists in England give sufficient evidence of their hearty disowning such an irreligious Tenet yet there is another thing Preface c. What say You Sir Could the Papists Why have they not Is their an ear in England that can perceive sence and has not heard what a profession was made by the Catholick Lords in the House of Peers Is there an eye that can read and has not seen their printed Declarations in which that irreligious Tenet was confidently clearly and heartily Disavowed They have do and will protest that if they be not ready to give all possible security of disavowing that and all other Principles prejudicial to Authority Justice and Peace it would neither be prudence in his Majesty nor a just care of his Kingdomes welfare to tolerate them among his Subjects What would you require more 20. If You think or however if You be resolved to say though You do not think so that we lye when we both make such protestations and withall offer to confirme them by Oathes You will put us into some puzzle how to give You satisfaction Yet in order thereto even to You that perhaps are unwilling to be satisfied we tell You this You cannot but know that Catholick Religion utterly forbids all lying and above all Perjury If therefore You will judge that neither the Protestations nor Oaths of Catholicks are to be credited you will condemn the State of want of prudence in contriving Oathes for tryals of their Fidelity and moreover you must needs esteem us the most impertident Lyars in the World that is such as only lye when it is for our disadvantage If we durst lye we would much rather chuse to lye by taking the Oathes in the formes as they are expressed then make voluntary false protestations of the same
Religious you will quarrel as derogating from God Let us therefore call it a sacred veneration or honour For since all things that are appointed on purpose to mind us of God of heaven and the salvation of our souls we call them sacred this name may well be applyed to such a picture But moreover because there are not invented such variety of names as there are things and there are far fewer sorts of outward postures of our Bodies denoting respect then there are Names or Words Hence it comes to pass that when we would express a Civil and a Sacred yea a Religious respect we are forced to use the same outward behaviour of bowing kneeling c. to Fathers and Magistrates that we do to God himself Yea we find in the Scripture Kings adored and a prostration of bodies paid to them Yet for all this no man will suspect that thereby any dishonour was intended to God or the Honour due only to him was paid to creatures 29. In the next place let reason and common sence give judgment of the distinction between the respect that may be paid to the picture of St. Peter and that which ought to be paid to himself in case he appeared to us glorified as he is A Divine respect we pay to neither though sometimes we use such postures as we do when we pray or worship God It is then a sacred veneration only but yet there are some expressions of respect that we would use to the person that would be ridiculous to the picture as reverently to speak to him to beg his prayers to God for us to ask a Question c. 30. Our last Enquiry shall be into the difference of regard if any there be to our Saviours picture and S. Peters the former representing to us him that is both God and man the latter meerly man However we shall find that the regard to both the pictures is of the same species and nature that is only sacred because a picture we never look upon but as an instrument to put us in mind or to call to our memories an object and therefore it being of our own frameing is not capable of any respect beyond that which is due to so material inferiour a thing what ever the object represented by it be True it is that the internal affections and thoughts occasionally raised in our minds will be infinitely different for we shall think upon Christ with Adoration Love Resignation and Obedience due to God only not so of St. Peter but the pictures themselves will be treated by us as sacred pictures only that deserve a respect proportionable And since it is evident they are capable of a sinful disrespect consequently a due respect may be paid to them I say may be not alwaies ought to be for then it would never be fit to put on ones hat c. in a room where there hangs a crucifix 31. To summe up briefly our meaning in this whole matter We find our minds too apt to be distracted from meditating on Divine things therefore we help our selves by such things as will call to our memories and fix our thoughts upon Objects good for our souls to be thought upon Such are holy pictures both in times of prayer and out we find this benefit by them Being such sacred things we must renounce our reason if we deny a respect may be due to them but by honouring with an outward regard a picture we intend only to give a testimony what respect we bear to the person or holy thing represented And though for want of variety of postures we shew some part of the same outward Reverence to the pictures of St. Peter and our Lord yet that signifies we only venerate St. Peter as a glorious Saint yet a creature but that we adore Christ as God And no man that sees or knows us can think otherwise So that unless it be a sin to shew outwardly what we are oblig'd to think inwardly there is not the least fault committed 32. And now Mr. Bagshaw give me leave to acquaint You with Your mistakes First this respect called by the Church Honour and Veneration which We affirme may be paid to sacred Images you call Worshipping of Images meerly to make us odious to your ignorant Proselytes For Worship is commonly taken to be that Honour which is due only to God and which we abhor to give to Images But Secondly you give it another name more abominable calling it Idolatry such as God punished in the worst of Pagans Once at least in your life speak your conscience Do you think or only suspect that we Roman Catholicks do worship false Gods and true Devils Do we consider our Images as they did their Idols to which by Magical conjurations they annexed an evil Spirit to do wonders and to extort Divine worship from the seduced people Take heed Sir how you persist in so unjust a blasphemy against Gods Church A time will come that You will be called to a strict account for it it concerns you therefore to make some reparation 33. But after all this take notice that the Catholick Church though it declare that such a veneration may fitly be given to Holy Images as common Reason and Humane nature cannot choose but allow Yet it commands none to afford them but even so much You may be a Roman Catholick all your life and yet never be obliged to performe any external respect to an Image There is not in Catholick countries a Groom or Kitchin-maid so ignorant but would rather burn an Image then afford it any honour due to God only And shall those that think thus and do only what humane reason generally approves and cannot hinder be esteemed and published by you the only Christians in the World fit to be thrust out of all Christian Kingdomes and executed as traytours though otherwise they be acknowledged most faithful peaceable men and obedient Subjects Are you not afraid of In quo judicio judicaveritis judicabimini 34. You see Sir how since you will not admit of Authorities to justify the Beliefe and Practice of Roman Catholicks but only common sence and reason I have complyed with you And now in one word tell you that You must never hope to make any sober man believe that Roman Catholicks are Idolaters or even faulty in the matter of Images till You can demonstrate 1. That it is unlawful to make use of our Seeing faculty to put us in mind of God 2. That he dishonours the King that shall with reverence bareheaded and in a kneeling posture receive a Letter or Mandate that comes from him 3. That it is a contempt of God to go through a Church with ones head uncovered 4. And that it is unlawful and irreligious to make a scruple of using a leaf of the Bible in the house of Office 35. For a farewel I will conclude this point with a Story the truth whereof several Gentlemen Protestants too in this Town are able
to justify In the year 1651. a devout Italian Friar being appointed to preach in the Great Dome at Padua the Archbishop present and having been informed that among his Auditors there were some English Protestants that in discourse had earnestly objected as you do Idolatry to Catholicks He therefore that he might occur to such a scandal made choice of the Doctrine concerning Images for the subject of a great part of his sermon And when he came to that point holding in his hand a Crucifix he told his hearers That that Image did in one glance lively represent even to the most ignorant beholder our Lord Jesus God and Man and almost all the circumstances of his most bitter and accursed death so patiently and willingly suffered for us Thereupon with great passion and Rhetorick he magnified the Love of our Lord hanging on the Cross earnestly pressing his hearers to return a proportionable Love and Duty to him And during this discourse he often with great reverence and tenderness of affection embraced and devoutly kissed the Crucifix Having said much to this purpose after a little pause he pursued his Discourse telling them he could not believe or suspect that any one that had heard and seen what he had said and done could reasonably imagine that he had any intention to dishonour our Lord by that which he had done to the Crucifix which represented him much less that he adored it as if he thought it a kind of God that he put his trust in it as expecting any good from it as if he knew not what Divinity Vertue or Sanctity was in that carved piece of wood Notwithstanding because he had heard that such a scandalous imputation was by some misperswaded persons laid on the Church he would then and there undeceive them Thereupon he spit upon the Crucifix threw it scornfully to the ground and trampled it under his feet 36. You see Mr. Bagshaw what kind of Idolaters the Papists are Against this Idolatry let us see what express Scripture you can produce This is the great crime for which there can be no expiation but oppressions emprisonments and Gallowses Now if what hath been here said give you no satisfaction in case you have a mind to reply do not practice your old way of snatching a phrase or expression out of a single Authour a Schoolman or Controvertist and making the whole Church answerable for one mans indescretion But search what the Church her self has declared in the Council of Trent and dispute against that as well as you can and be assured you shall either be answered or else told that you are unconquerable IV. VI. That Mr. Bagshaw's whole Discourse against the Churches Infallibility is nothing to the purpose 1. HItherto of your Preface Now I come to your book which truly will afford very little businesse And in grosse concerning your grave Discourse I must tell you That if you would be as merciful to our Estates and our Lives as You are to this our fundamental Doctrine we should find You a a very commodious Adversary For notwithstanding all your blustring You have not given this Doctrine one blow that smarts at all But God bless us from Your Swords and Your Sermons 2. The Title of your book is The great Question about the Infallibility of the Pope and Church of Rome This Question you undertake to determine We are likely to have good stuff in a Book that mistakes the subject to be discoursed on You should not have said The great Question about c. but Two Questions the one a great one about the Infallibility of the Roman Catholick Church which if it be disproved destroys the foundation of that Church the other a very little question about the Popes personal infallibility in which the Church it self is not concerned at all but only Cardinal Bellarmine and a few Writers zealous for that Court. And when you had said this in all reason having a design to triumph over Roman Catholicks you ought not to have said a word about this little trifling unconcerning Question but have bent all your forces against that Great one which was only to the purpose 3. But You very wisely have spent your whole book upon it only though a subject that You your self in your Preface confess is not yet decided in the Schools amongst learned men which is as much as to say no Catholick is obliged to maintain and consequently no Protestant needs trouble himself about it Nay moreover you say the two Councils of Basil and Constance and in your Book the sixth General Council have vertually decided the contrary having preferred the Authority of a Council above the Pope which therefore may reverse his decisions and actually condemned a Pope of Heresie you might have added the seventh and eighth General Councils which ratifyed the same condemnation and to them You might have joyned Pope Agathon the successour of Pope Honorius that was condemned and his Successours Pope Leo the second and the rest till Pope Adrian the second who lived in the time of the eighth Council 4. Why do You write Books Mr. Bagshaw so confessedly to no purpose at all And why do you trouble your self about a subject that the Authour whom you pretend to confute cannot himself believe what ever opinion or suspition he may have of it For no Catholick can be said to believe any thing as a Christian Verity merely upon discourse of Reason or probable deduction from Scripture but only when such a verity appears either expressly contained in the Bible or is formally decided by a General Council or received by unquestionable Tradition of the Church Now it is apparent even out of Bellarmine himself that none of these wayes the Popes Infallibility has been confirmed Nay more Never yet has any Pope declared that himself is Infallible But you are wise in the midst of folly You write out of all danger of being confuted because no body thinks himself touched so that you have an easie and cheap triumph of it Notwithstanding by your own example I do much doubt your Honourable patron by whose command You say You wrote finds not Epist Dedic his expectation answered if he did expect any great matter and I am sure being very knowing and wise he will not believe that as you brag you have killed the Enemy having left no Argument unanswered since evidently you have mistaken your enemies person through your whole book excepting only the two last leaves where obiter and in answer to an Objection supposed to be made by moderate and ingenuous Papists you make an offer to speak de tribus capellis that is the Pope's being infallible not in himself but in and with a Councill which though it be the only matter in question you call only a Conceit of which you will speak a little and you keep your word you say very little and that little to no purpose at all 5. Therefore to what purpose should any Catholick
be pardon'd had you only said I fear or I suspect this But sure there is not any Christian except Mr. Bagshaw whose Religion would allow him to say I hope his Lordship thinks his Book unanswerable that is in effect I hope in God that his Lordship is both an Atheistical Hypocrite professing a Religion contrary to his conscience and withall that his Hypocrisie against the nature of that sin is sencelesly void of all worldly pretentions since he counterfeits a Religion that he knowes is ruinous to his fortunes Is this your Theological vertue of Hope Truly it becomes you well Your Faith Hope and Charity I see are all of a piece 6. It may be you knew some Great Men that for some ends you could permit to strain their consciences so far as to profess a Religion that themselves are able to confute But sure they will be no losers by it whatever becomes of ther souls care shall be taken that their worldly Estate shall thrive by it They will declare for a Sect where money abounds and where power and Offices may be shared That is of all Religions in England they will take heed of the Catholick 7. Indeed if you understood what Catholick Religion is you would never say so much as I suspect c. and if you knew what Christian Religion is you would never have said I hope such an abominable so unreasonable a thing In your Sect I conceive such an Hypocrisie may be practised at a cheaper rate But in Catholick Religion no Man can commit that sin alone it must necessarily be attended with most horrible sacriledge and a solemn profanation of two Sacraments Pennance and the Holy Eucharist Therefore I hope that you have been bold to bely your self when you said I hope his Lordship thinks his Book unanswerable I have a better opinion of you then you desire I should 8. As for the Author of Fiat Lux complained Fiat Lux Epist Deâ—â—â—â—â— of by you to your Honourable Patron in the Epistle Dedicatory where you lay to his charge Blasphemies that you good man tremble to mention If you had sincerely related those passages and were they considered not as standing alone but with the dependance on what is delivered before they will be so far from deserving to be called Blasphemies that no sober charitable Reader will deny them to be simple unstrain'd Truths And if you think good to reply to these papers I here undertake to justifie those passages in the proper true sence that the Author apparently meant them Which that it is no hard matter to do I will shew you presently His first passage related by you is this In my judgment saith he Christ our Lord hath no less shewn his Divinity and power in the Pope then in himself And all things considered I may truly say that Christ in the Pope and Church is more miraculous then in his own person My reason to demonstrate the truth of this which is the Authors too is this because the preservation of the Church in Unity and Truth under the Government of supream Pastours without interruption for sixteen hundred years and more amongst so many tryals and oppositions is a greater effect of a Divine power in Christ then he shew'd in prolonging his own personal life for about thirty three years 9. And as to the second passage viz. That the first great Fundamental of Christian Religion which is the truth and Divinity of Christ had it not been for the Pope had failed long ago in the World So that I may truly say that Christ is the Popes God For if the Pope had not been or had not been so vigilant a Pastor as he is Christ had not been taken now for any such person as he is believed this day Consult your books and the whole Series of Ecclesiastical Story will inform you that the Pope by means of Councels of the Western Church assembled by his Authority was he alone that instrumentally destroy'd Arianisme and other Heresies denying the Divinity of Christ which for some ages had in a manner poyson'd all the East 10. And lastly without much boasting I may with him conclude This I may boldly say and am assured of that if the Pope be not an unerring Guide in affairs of Religion that way I mean that I have shewn him in all ages to have exercised his Guidance by General Councils all is lost For this is no other then what with all Catholicks I have asserted and will positively justifie that the authority of the Church in her supream Tribunals is the only assured means of preserving the Church in Unity as being an Authority from which no Appeals must be admitted that is being Infallible These therefore you see are no such Blasphemies as to put you into a fit of trembling 11. I do now expect Sir unless God inspire more charity into your heart that you will make loud complaints of the presumption of your Roman Catholick adversary for daring to defend his Religion against your evident mistakes and the cause of all his profession from the trayterous imputation of a Dependence on a forreign authority most unjustly by you laid to their charge like the ancient Gladiatour you will accuse us for avoyding your blows and thrusts and because we do not recipere totum gladium But this Confidence is the effect of our Innocence only which as the Scripture says Gives the boldnesse of a lyon Nay it is for your sake if you please however it is for our Countreys sake that we beg no more innocent blood may be laid to its charge But if it must still be spilt we had rather you should be our Executioners than any other We give Almighty God and the Parliament most humble thanks that we have been permitted to wipe off the scandal of Infidelity from our Religion This we triumph in Hereafter if we suffer we call God to witness and the whole Kingdom I mean English Protestants that it will be purely our Conscience our Religion our love of Peace and Unity that we suffer for for all manner of security we have and ever will give of being faithfull quiet good Subjects all Oaths expressing only our obligation to Fidelity or acknowledgment of the Kings temporal Supreamacy we will take Does it not become then such Sufferers to be confident Does it not become such lovers of their Countrey to wish that no more guilt may lye upon it True it is we look upon your party as our Murderers you give us up into their hands you kill us with their swords They are inclin'd to mercy being satisfyed of our Innocency but you threaten to set the Kingdom on fire with your crying out Popery if they spare us We do not expect from his Majesty that for our sakes though his most loyal Subjects he should take upon himself the envy that you would raise against him We beseech him he would not indeed he ought not to do it considering the mischief that