Suppose our Religion did but begin then why must people be always in an Error Must they never reform when they have done amiss if there were monstrous Errors in the Church of Rome which the aforesaid Persons saw would be the Death of Christianity and which they could not subscribe to without debauching their Reason or wronging both their own and other Mens Consciences was it not rational they should protest against such things to give their fellow Christians warning When the House is on fire would you have no body awake to alarm the Neighbours to look to themselves did they see so many thousand Men ready to be drown'd and would you have had them hold their Tongues and barbarously suffered them all to be drown'd Did they see the Christian Religion like to be swallow'd up by Darkness and Ignorance and was it not time to rouze the slumbering World But however that these Men were the first broachers of our Religion is notoriously false First because long before them there were Men that lived in the external Communion of the Church of Rome but dislik'd the Errors as they crept in and grew dangerous and though they were over-aw'd and silenc'd many times by the higher Powers of the Roman Court yet they both detested those Corruptions and as they had opportunity protested against them as were an easie matter to prove from age to age if it had not been done already over and over by Divines of our Church so that though these Men that lived long before Luther and whom God still rais'd to vindicate his Truth as it grew more and more polluted were not call'd Protestants by the People yet in effect they were so and consequently there were Protestants many years before Luther and Zwinglius And though they were not suffered by the Ignorant and imperious Ecclesiastical Powers to meet and assemble themselves in publick yet they made a Church as much as the followers of Holy Athanasius did when the whole World was turned Arian as much as Elijah and those seven thousand the Oracle mentioned made a Church when the whole Country was over-run with Idolaters These seven thousand we read lay hid and durst not appear in publick being oppress'd by the Idolatrous powers that sat at the Stern and thought there was no good fishing but in troubled waters And indeed in this manner our Church was dispers'd long before Luther among the greater multitude of the followers of the corrupted Roman Church as a handful of wheat lies scatter'd in a bushel of Chaff and though it it did not appear in Pomp and Grandeur yet that external Splendour is not essential to the truth of a Church your own men may be convinced by the aforementioned examples Secondly if your Champions speak strictly of the Religion which we profess in the Church of England they are under a mistake when they make Luther or Zwinglius the Authors of it for our Reformation began some time after and was both begun and carried on with great deliberation and consideration under Edward the 6th by publick Authority whose proper province it is to take notice of what is amiss in a Kingdom or Commonwealth whether it be in Church or State and to reform and mend it It 's no great matter when a Reformation begins so the Reformation be but just and if such a Reformation had begun but yesterday that would not have made it unlawful and that our Reformation was just and necessary hath been prov'd by our Divines beyond all reasonable contradiction and how could it but be just when the Decrees of the Church of Rome controll'd the Word of the Living God and vyed with the Oracles of the Gospel How and when the several Errors crept into that Church is not material to determine it 's enough we found them there and it was God's mercy not to give all the learned Men of that age over to believe a lye But it 's pretty to hear your Church-men talk of the novelty of our Religion when it is evident to all the understanding World that our first Reformers began no new Religion but desired only to keep to the Old All their endeavour was to keep to the Religion of the Bible and to cut off all superfluities and things prejudicial to Salvation and was there any hurt in that They saw that many things then in use in the Church of Rome were diametically opposite to the Doctrines and practises of the Primitive Church and they justly thought it their Duty to reduce the Church to the antient Pattern the prouder Clergy of the Roman Church would not yield to it but would have all their new fangles and all their additions to the antient Symbols received as Articles of Faith though all perish'd and the coat of Christ were rent into a thousand pieces the more humble and more moderate of the Clergy saw the pride and insolence of the other and trembled and thus we and they parted we kept to the old Religion and your Men chose the new and much good it may do you with it and pray Judge by this which is the Schismatick Church we or they we that would have healed Israel or they that would not be healed so that it is not our Religion that began so lately as 150 years ago about Luthers time but it 's yours that commenced then for you then embraced the new additions to the antient Catholick Creeds with greater greediness and were resolv'd to maintain that by Bravado's which you were not able to defend with Arguments It 's a very ordinary thing for people who once incline to the Communion of the Roman Church to demand of us before they go over whither a person may be saved in that Church The Charity and moderation our Divines usually express in their answer to this Query I am sensible hath done our Church some harm whereas the Roman Priests being bold in their uncharitableness and damning all that are out of their Communion make some weak people believe that they must be in the right because they are more daring in their Asseverations We have far greater reason to be peremptory in excluding the Members of the Church of Rome from Salvation than they have to exclude us for if that Church be guilty of Idolatry as I see your Divines find it a very hard task to answer the Arguments of our learned Men that prove it Those that are guilty of this Crime may soon be resolved by the Apostle what their lot is like to be in another World for No Idolater saith St. Paul meaning one that lives and dies so shall inherit the Kingdom of God 1 Cor. 6. 9. yet we are modest and whatever the principles of that Church may lead Men to we hope there may be many in that Church that either while they live in the Communion of that Church have an aversion from the dangerous and Idolatrous practices of it or sometimes before they die do heartily repent of the absurd and unreasonable
used as a means to get Money 5. By these Indulgences men are hindred from a true Repentance for they pretend to release Men by them both from Sin and Punishment at least the People are suffer'd to think so if they do but say so many Prayers or go in Pilgrimage to such a place or fast so many days from some kinds of Meats or give a large sum of Money for the building of a Church or go to War against Infidels c. Quest. 15. Why do not you think Auricular Confession to a Priest necessary to Salvation Here you must Note That we are not against Confession in the Church of England nay our Church presses it both publick and private to God and Confession to a pious and able Minister if the Conscience be burden'd and upon a Death-bed but we dare not say as they do in the Church of Rome that a Man cannot be pardon'd or saved except he Confesses to a Priest 1. We allow not of it in the sense of the Church of Rome Because there is nothing in the Word of God that makes the neglect of it Damnable 2. The Confession used in the Primitive Church was made by scandalous Sinners publickly in the Congregation and therefore is not the same with that practis'd in the Church of Rome which commands the Confessing all mortal Sins with their Circumstances into the ear of a Priest at set times and before the receiving of the Sacrament 3. Since it is not of Divine but Ecclesiastical Institution it cannot be absolutely necessary to Salvation 4. It cannot be a Sacrament as they make it in the Chuch of Rome because it wants Christ's Institution 5. This Confession to a Priest as it is managed in the Church of Rome is no Check but rather an Encouragement to Sin Quest. 16. UUhy do not you believe that the Church of Rome is the only Catholick Church and the Mistriss of all other Churches Answ. I can never believe that the Church of Rome is the only Catholick Church 1. Because there are vast multitudes of Christians in the World which are not in actual Communion with the Church of Rome and yet are Members of the Catholick or which is the same of Christ's universal Church dispersed all the World over 2. To say That the Church of Rome is the Catholick Church is to say That a part is the whole or that a House is a whole City or that one Member is the whole Body 3. The Primitive Christians did not take the Church of Rome for the only Catholick Church 4. God hath no where in Scripture declared so much 5. To say the Church of Rome is the only Catholick Church is a most uncharitable Doctrine and to Damn the greater part of the Christian World 6. All Churches that do hold the ancient Faith contain'd in the three Creeds are Members of the Catholick Church 7. The Church of Rome is so far from being the only Catholick Church that her strange Doctrines make her at the best but a very unsound Member of the Catholick Church I do not believe That the Church of Rome is the Mistress of all other Churches in the World 1. Because there is no such Authority given her in the word of God 2. The Superiority she Claims is nothing but Usurpation 3. The Asian and African Churches heretofore rejected her Authority 4. The Eastern Churches at this day despise her Pride and pretended Authority 5. The Church of England was a free Church from the beginning and therefore justly maintains her Freedom and how should that Church be Mistress of all other Churches that takes Liberty to change Christ's Institutions and Commands and contradicts the Word of God Quest. 17. Doth the Church of Rome differ from the Church of England in any other Points Answ. Yes for she holds 1. That Extreme Unction is a Sacrament necessary to Salvation 2. That it is unlawful for Priests to Marry 3. That she is infallible 4. That the Scripture is not to be read in a vulgar Language by the common People 5. That the Books call'd Apocrypha are Canonical Scripture 6. That the Church of England had no Power to Reform her self All which we deny as contrary to Scripture and Reason Quest. 18. Why do not you believe that Extreme Unction is a Sacrament necessary to Salvation Ans. 1. Because that Unction or anointing sick Persons Jam. 5. 14 15. was a miraculous Gift and therefore not necessary to be continued 2. Christ did never institute this miraculous Unction as a Sacrament 3. The Unction they use in the Church of Rome hath no miraculous effects 4. The Apostles an̄ointed sick Persons that they might recover In the Church of Rome they anoint dying Persons who are past Recovery 5. In that place of St. James the saving of the sick Person is ascribed to the Prayer of Faith not to the anointing 6. The Sacrament of the Lords Supper is sufficient to comfort the dying Man Quest. 19. Why do you look upon their forbidding Priests to marry as unlawful Answ. 1. Because St. Paul permits a Bishop and indeed all Clergy-men to marry 1 Tim. 3. 2. 8. 11. Tit. 1. 6. 2. The same Apostle saith to all Men in general It is better to marry than to burn 1 Cor. 7. 9. 3. The same Apostle calls forbidding to marry a Doctrine of Devils 1 Tim. 4. 1. 3. 4. St. Peter himself an Apostle and a Priest was a married Man 5. Several of the Bishops in the Primitive Church were married Men such as Spiridion Chaereman Phileas Gregory Nyssen Gregory Nazianzen both Father and Son Hilary and others 6. It was Pope Hildebrand or Gregory VII the same that first presumed to depose Soveraign Princes that made the Clergy renounce their Wives contrary to Scripture a Man guilty of the greatest Crimes imaginable Quest. 20. Why do not you believe the Church of Rome infallible Answ. 1. Because it is only a Pretence founded neither in Scripture nor Antiquity 2. It is a Church that hath err'd both in Doctrine and the Worship of God most notoriously 3. God hath no where promis'd to make any one Church infallible 4. Themselves are not agreed where this Infallibility lies whether in the Pope or in a general Council or in the diffusive body of Christians 5. The Word of God is the only infallible Rule to walk by 6. There is no need of a visible infallible Judge for deciding of Controversies For 1st Controversies may be decided without such a Judge as they were in the Primitive Church the Bishops meeting in Council and arguing against Hereticks from the Word of God 2d A meek humble peaceable and charitable Temper would decide Controversies better than all the pretended infallible Judges in the World 3d. We do not find that when there were infallible Judges here on Earth such as Christ and his Apostles that all Controversies did cease Notwithstanding their presence there were Schisms and Heresies even among the Christians 1 Cor. 11. 19.
would have been found out by the comparing of ancient and modern Copies He then asked again what we counted the Rule of Faith I told him the Scripture He asked whether with a true Interpretation or without it I told him the Scripture with true Interpretation He then replied how we should know the true Interpretation I told him things necessary to Salvation needed no great Interpretation and the words are deliver'd so plainly that any one that runs may Read it He then asked whether every Man was a true Interpreter of Scripture I said every Man had a Judgment of Discretion but there was no Question there were several Persons that might mis-interpret it but if a Man went this way to work read the Scripture pray for Illumination and go to it with a pure Intention he might understand things necessary and he could not err damnably and in things more difficult consult by his Guides He said this would establish every Man in his Religion and a Mahometan ought to be directed by his Guide and why must we follow the Guides of our Church and not the Guides of the Roman Church I told him that People bred and born and baptized in this Church had greater reason to consult their own Guides than others because they had greater Obligations to them Still he urged no Man could be ascertain'd of the true Interpretation of the Scripture without some Judge I desired him to name that Judge over and over but could not bring him to it I know not how the Discourse came in here about different Interpretations and I said the Writers of their Church differ'd in their Interpretation He said none of their Writers differ'd from one another in the Interpretation of places relating to Articles of Faith I asked him what he thought of Extreme Unction He said it was an Article of Faith Very well said I then I 'll prove that Cajetan interprets that place of St. James of another Unction and saith contrary to the Council of Trent that Extreme Unction cannot be proved from that place He said the Council of Trent did not denounce Anathema to him that should interpret that place of St. James of another Unction I then fetcht him down out of my Study the Council of Trent and shew'd him that Sess. 14. it did denounce Anathema to them that should not believe So then he said they laid not the strain upon that place but St. Peter and St. Paul had spoken of it too I challeng'd him to shew me any place in St. Paul or Peter that had spoken of this Unction He then turn'd it off and said he did not mean it of any express mention but only that the Apostles did not use to contradict themselves After this either the Jesuit or Mr. Stephens moved it that there might be another Meeting and that we should write down all I told him I agreed to it and accordingly we appointed Wednesday next the 4 th of January at Four a Clock in the Afternoon and so they departed the Jesuit and Mr. Lamb The Bookbinder and Mr. Chamberlain and his Mother and another young Woman And the Bookbinder and Mr. Stephens and my self and Chamb. and his Mother staid a while when I fell in discourse about Invocation of Saints and fetcht him down the Office of the Virgin Mary The Contempt of the Glories of the Virgin Mary and shew'd him that they did not only pray to Saints to pray for them but begg'd the same Blessings of them they did of God The Bookbinder said the Contemplations of the Glory of the Blessed Virgin was not allow'd of in their Church He said if they did more than pray to Saints to pray for them he did not righly understand his Church The End A DISSWASIVE FROM POPERY BEING A LETTER TO A LADY TO Preserve her from Apostacy from the Communion of the Church of ENGLAND LONDON Printed for W. Hinchman S. Keble and D. Brown 1697. A DISSWASIVE from Popery being a Letter to a Lady to preserve her from Apostacy from the Communion of the Church of England Madam AND are you indeed got into the only Catholick Church And are you sure the Men you have lately believed have not deceived you as you fancy we have done for tho' you may be so charitable as to think that we have not intentionally cozened you yet since you cannot suppose us to be both in the Right you must necessarily conclude that we have at least ignorantly abused and imposed upon you and did you ever rightly consider what a truly Catholick Church does mean Men of Sense and Reason always believed that a Church which holds the truly Catholick Faith is a true and sound Member of the Catholick Church and dares Malice it self say that we do not hold the Apostles the Nicene and Athanasius's Creed The Church of Rome her self confesses that these Creeds contain the truly Catholick Faith And most certainly when the Nicene Council was celebrated and in Athanasius's time that Church was counted a sound Member of the Catholick Church that held that Catholick Faith which is expressed in those Creeds and do we not hold that Faith Do we not stand up at it to express our Readiness to defend it And what have we done that we must not be counted a Catholick Church Is it because we will not receive things which the Church of Rome hath since added to the Catholick Faith Is it because we will not admit of the Doctrines which that Church was first induced to believe by the Darkness and Ignorance of the Ages it lived in and at last loath to part withal for fear they should be thought to have been so long in an Error Is it because we will not yield to things which we apprehend to be directly against the Word of God and destructive to that Catholick Faith the Christian World hath professed in all Ages Is it because we will not deceive the People of the Cup in the Blessed Sacrament which Christ intended as a mighty comfort to them Is it because we will not believe the Miracle of Transubstantiation against four of our Senses and Reason and Scripture to boot Is it because we will not suffer the Worship of God or that which is very like it to be given to Creatures because of the very appearance of the evil of Idolatry which we are commanded to shun as much as Idolatry it self Is it because we will not believe a Purgatory Fire which cleanseth little but Peoples Purses of their Money Is it because we will not indulge the Pride and Arrogance of a Man at Rome who having first wheedled the Christian Princes out of their Means and Power hath at last made that Power and Riches hereditary to his Successors under a pretence of a Legacy from Christ Is it because we will not believe contrary to the Apostles Rule that publick Prayers which are intended for the benefit and understanding of the Multitude must be said in a Tongue unknown to the
Doctrines and Worship they have too long asserted and complied with and of such we cannot but entertain a very favourable opinion and indeed I could name you some very famous Men both in France and Italy who though they have continued in the Communion of that Church i. e. have not joyn'd themselves to any particular publick Protestant Church yet have not approv'd of such things in the Roman Church as manifestly obstructs Mens Salvation and though like Nicodemus they have not dared openly to avow their dislike of such Errors for fear of danger yet in their hearts they have abhorr'd them and declared so much to their Friends and intimate Acquaintance And though their seeming Communion with a Church so Erroneous cannot be totally excused because it looks like a tacite approbation of her Errors yet since we read of Joseph that he was a Disciple of Christ secretly and notwithstanding his not confessing Christ publickly accepted of God we hope such Mens continuing in the external Communion of the Roman Church is not a willful Error but rather a pardonable Infirmity a timorousness which hath nothing of malice in it and therefore will not hinder them from Salvation We know not what mercy God may shew to many poor people in that Church who are invincibly Ignorant and never saw a Bible from whence they might rectifie their mistakes and do live honestly in this present World but we must withal confess that the Servant who hath known his Masters will and hath not done it shall be beaten with many stripes and whether those that have been enlightened in our Church and have tasted the good Word of God and cannot but see our Agreement with the Gospel and after all this embrace the Errors of the Roman Church whether these will be excusable at the last day we justly doubt of to live in great Errors is to live in Sin but where that living in Errors is joyn'd with resistance of great light and knowledge there the Sin becomes all Crimson which was but of a faint red before and if this be the Character of Christ's Friends to do whatsoever he commands us then the inference is very easie that those cannot be Christ's Friends nor reign with in Heaven that willfully leave undone what they know he hath commanded and set up a new Worship which he hath no where commanded Madam had you never seen such a thing as the Scripture your going over to that Church might have deserved some Apology but when you were surrounded with the beams of that light which shines in darkness as St. Peter calls the Word with all those rayes about you to shut your eyes and desperately to venture upon the Church which enjoyns Men to live against some of Gods Laws as against Exod. 20. 5 6. and Matth. 26. 27. c. and consequently obliges them to prepare for God's displeasure this I confess is an Action which as it savours of great willfulness so I question if you die in 't without serious repentance whether the Joys you hope for will ever fall to your share If your Church-men do mean honestly and do truly aim at the Peace of Christendom and in good earnest design the Union of Men that profess the Name of Christ why will not they part with those Doctrines that are so great an offence not only to all Protestants but to Jews and Mahometans too If that worshipping of Saints and Images be not necessary but only useful why will not they quit that Worship which by their own pretences is needless especially when they might do so much good by it If the Cup was formerly given to the Laity why will not they to effect the aforesaid Union restore it to the Laity If the substance of the Sacrament and the comfort arising from it may remain entire without obliging Men to believe a Transubstantiation or Adoration of the consecrated Wafer why will not they for peace sake lay aside such Doctrines which neither themselves nor any Creature understands If Heaven and Hell are sufficient motives to a Holy Life why will not they for quietness sake renounce their Doctrine of Purgatory which by their own confession hath no ground in Scripture Madam I have that charitable opinion of you that if you had but taken a view of the Worship of the Church of Rome as it is practic'd beyond Sea in places where there is no fear of contradiction from any Hereticks where they may freely and securely act according to their principles had you seen the mode of worshipping the Virgin Mary at Rome or in Spain or Italy the sight of it would have certainly discourag'd you from embracing that Religion which now you seem to be mainly delighted with for indeed the Religion of the Church of Rome at this time if a Man were to guess from that which hath the greatest outward Veneration is little else than a Worship of the Virgin Mary The very Beggers beyond-Sea in begging of Alms beg more for the Virgin Mary's sake than for Christ's sake This Madam I know to be true who am no stranger to Foreign parts and I will assure you that in those Cities or Towns where both Papists and Protestants have the free exercise of their Religion you shall live Twenty years in a Town before you hear that any Protestant is turned Papist so few charms are there in the Exercise of their Religion beyond Sea but you shall not be above a year or two in such a Town before you hear that several Papists are turned Protestants such a force hath truth The Religion of the Church of Rome as it is practis'd in England looks harmless Now and then upon some great Festival they shew you a Picture of the Virgin Mary or of some other Saint and the honest Priest qualifies every Doctrine makes the Errors soft and plausible and they dare not living in a Protestant Country serve the Host of Heaven I mean Saints and Angels with all their Appertenances as they do in places where there are no Protestants to watch them Here their Religion seems to be without a sting and is clad in the fleece of Sheep but if you could but make a Voyage into Spain or Italy I doubt not but you would see the Venome of it and avoid it and the only way not to be of the Church of Rome would be to go to Rome provided you do not go without your Bible In good truth that Church hath turn'd Christianity into a meer outward Pomp and Splendor which ravishes the eye but can never content a Man's reason The glistering Gold in their Temples the curious Images of Saints and Angels the numerous and stately Altars the mighty Silver Statues the rich and glorious Vestments you see up and down in their Churches strike the Senses into a kind of extasie and it must be Sense only for a considerate mind that searches the inside of things as well as the outside cannot be so easily gull'd and deceiv'd and
by them of old time and so far as God hath said it it is a Law unalterable Murder is a truly crying Sin for the Voice of thy Brother's Blood crys unto me from the ground saith God Gen. IV. 10. This is a Crime which Nature it self trembles at and yet we see there are Wretches and Monsters who can steel and harden their Consciences against the Horror of it But God thunders against it from Heaven and because the Crime is so great he hath made a Law and given it to all Mankind That whoso sheds Mans Blood by Man i. e. by the Magistrates shall his Blood be shed Gen. IX 6. Nay if a wild Beast tears a Man who is going about his lawful Occasions in pieces though an irrational Creature God will strike that Beast dead because it kill'd Sanctius his Animal a nobler and more sacred Fabrick So tender is God of the Life of Man nor would he suffer his Tabernacle or Sanctuary to be a refuge for such a barbarous Wretch The Horns of the Altar could not save the Offender and from the very Temple he was to be dragg'd to the Gallows or place of execution The whole Country comes to be defiled by the horrid Crime where it goes unpunish'd and that Magistrate makes his Soul black with guilt that connives at the inhumane Action or out of respect to Greatness or Rank or Quality pardons the intollerable Extravagance Where this remains unpunish'd when known a Nation falls under the Curse of God and whatever Judgments befal them an ounce of the unpunish'd Murder as the Jews say of the Sin of the Golden Calf may be said to be an Ingredient of their Calamity We have a Distinction in our Law betwixt Mans Slaughter and Murder A Distinction which I wish did not too often cover that Bloody Crime which ought to be avenged by publick Justice The Word of God knows no such Distinction and tho' it provides for Chance-medly and gives pardon to the Man that unawares and without any intent to kill proves the occasion of another's Death yet this is nothing to that Act which Wrath and Anger whether sudden or premeditate doth produce to the Horror of the Creation Neither doth the Law of the Gospel nor the Law of Moses in this case before us reverse the Law of Nature and God is so resolute that the Magistrate shall punish such Offenders with Death that where they do not himself sometimes takes the Sword in hand and executes the presumptuous Destroyer of his Image Nay many times makes the Wretch that did the Fact and escapes the Magistrates Sword his own Executioner Alphonsus Diazius a Spaniard and a Roman Catholick having kill'd his own Natural Brother for turning Protestant for which he receiv'd the Praises and Applauses of considerable Men in the Church of Rome haunted and hunted at last by the Furies of his own Conscience desperately hang'd himself at Trent de callo Mulae suae saith the Historian upon the Neck of his own Mule It 's true there are those who guilty of such Crimes do yet escape the revenging Arm of God and Man here but the more terrible will be their Cup of trembling hereafter and God lets some like stall'd Oxen grow fat on this side the Grave that with greater Terrour they may fall a Sacrifice when they die to hellish Furies Nor can Duels and single Combats upon an Affront receiv'd and Challenging one another to fight be excused from sharing in the Heinousness of this Guilt for whatever fine Names and plausible Descriptions the Law of Honour may have made of such Actions he that kills another in a Duel though he gets a Pardon of his Prince will be Arraign'd in the last day among the Murtherers who shall have their Portion in the Lake which burns with Fire and Brimstone I do not deny but that in the dark times of Popery such Combats have been allow'd of and publick Prayers have been said for Success in such Duels but what Credit can a Cause receive from Ages in which to understand Greek was a Crime and Hebrew next to Heresie We need not wonder that Babylon the Mother of Harlots should permit such things whose Garments have been died Red with the Blood of the Saints of God and which hath Tricks and Ways to Canonize Assassins to consecrate Murther and to Christen Massacres Services of Religon To call upon you to take heed of having a hand in Blood were to discourage you from drowning or poisoning your selves or running a Sword into your own Bowels for indeed this is no better and whatever varnish may be put upon it it is precipitating your selves headlong into the Gulf of Perdition There is in this Sin all that can aggravate a Deed it is to raise a Hell in your Bosom and the thing it self speaks so much abomination that to name the Sin is to give you a thousand Arguments against it But then that ye may not be under any temptation to this Sin let bitterness and wrath and anger be put away from you with all Malice which leads me to the third Proposition III. That Wrath and Anger without a just cause have their Degrees and according to them the Punishment in the next Life will be proportionable For whosoever shall be angry with his Brother without a cause shall be in danger of the Judgment and whosoever shall say to his Brother Raca shall be in danger of the Councel but whosoever shall say thou Fool shall be in danger of Hell-fire That some Anger is lawful is evident from hence because Christ himself was angry and very angry sometimes and so were the Apostles and we are permitted to be so but with this Caution be angry and sin not i. e. so as not to Sin Eph. IV. 26. So that all anger is not a mark of Damnation But then when the Author and Captain of our Salvation Christ Jesus and his Holy Apostles were angry it was only against Sin and out of a Zeal to Vertue and when Men were obstinate and would not be perswaded to do their Duty and a Sense of God's Glory kindled the fire of their Passion in which Case to be angry is a Perfection and to be passionate a Christian accomplishment provided still that the bounds of that Anger be observed and it's heat do not turn into Wild-fire that it be not attended with unseemly Expressions nor accompanied with furious Gestures and Actions I do not deny but a Man may be angry with his Servant a Father with his Children and a Master with his Schollars and proceed even to Correction but then it must be because they neglect their Duty or will not hearken to wholsome Admonitions and when gentler Addresses will do no good and the Anger must be more upon the account of their Sin than out of any Desire to revenge and it must be an Anger mingled with Pitty and Compassion and which ends in Prayer for the Offenders and it must be free from
Because they are not to be found in the Word of God 2. They are many of them contrary to the Word of God 3. No Church in the World hath Power to make New Articles of Faith Quest. 4. What are the New Articles of Faith the Church of Rome hath added to the Antient Creeds Answ. They are these following I. That the Traditions of the Church are to be received with the same Faith and Veneration we owe to the Holy Scriptures II. That there are seven Sacraments Baptism Confirmation the Eucharist Pennance Extreme Unction Orders and Marriage and that these confer Grace III. That among the Ceremonies used in the Roman Church the Publick Service in Latin or an unknown Tongue is a commendable Service IV. That in the Mass there is offered to God a true Propitiatory Sacrifice for the Living and the Dead V. That in the Sacrament of the Eucharist the Bread and Wine are changed into the very Substance of Christ's Body and Blood VI. That Laymen need not receive the Sacrament of the Eucharist in both kinds and that it 's sufficient for them to communicate in one VII That there is a Purgatory or a Place after Death where good Mens Souls are tormented for smaller Sins and relieved by the Alms and Prayers of the Living VIII That the Saints departed this Life may and must be pray'd to and invoked and that their Reliques must be worshipp'd IX That the Images of Jesus Christ and of the Virgin Mary and of other Saints may and ought to be worshipp'd X. That Indulgences or Dispensations of the redundant Merits of Saints are very useful things XI That Auricular Confession or Confession of all our mortal Sins with the Circumstances of them to a Priest is necessary to Salvation XII That the Church of Rome is the Catholick Church and Mistress of all other Churches Quest. 5. Why must not Traditions be received with the same Faith that is due to the written Word of God Answ. 1. Because the written Word of God is perfect containing all things necessary to Salvation And that does not direct us to Traditions but rather warns us against them 2. Because the Traditions of the Church of Rome many of them are false and many uncertain 3. Their Traditions are not Traditions which have been receiv'd in all Ages by all Churches and in all Places for such only are the true Apostolical Traditions 4. That they are not absolutely necessary their own Practice shews in that they reject Authentick Traditions and particularly that of Communicating Infants And here you may note The Reason why they fly to Tradition is because they cannot prove their New Doctrines by the Word of God Quest. 6. Why do not you believe seven Sacraments Answ. 1. The Holy Ghost in Scripture hath no where declared such a number 2. This precise number of Seven Sacraments was not heard of in the Christian Church till twelve hundred years after Christ. 3. There are but Two Sacraments mention'd in the New Testament I mean such as are true and proper Sacraments viz. Baptism and the Supper of the Lord. 4. The Council of Trent was the first that made this Number an Article of Faith Quest 7. Why do not you allow of Publick Service in Latin or in a Tongue not understood by the People Answ. 1. Because St. Paul writes a whole Chapter against it 1 Cor. 14. 2. Because the Publick Service ought to be for the Edification of the People and Service in an unknown Tongue cannot edifie 3. The Practice of the Primitive Church is against it 4. Some of the wiser Men in the Church of Rome themselves find fault with this Publick Service in an unknown Tongue 5. This Practice in the Church of Rome is only to serve some Worldly Ends. Quest. 8. Why do not you admit of the Sacrifice of the Mass Answ. 1. Because the Church of Rome tells us that they do sacrifice Christ every day in the Mass which is directly contrary to the 9th Chapter of the Epistle to the Hebrews Heb. 9. 25 26 27 28. 2. Because there can be no true and proper Sacrifice without Death and it founds dreadful to a Christian Ear that the Priest kills Christ every day or which is all one puts his God to Death 3. It destroys the end of a Sacrifice which is to testifie our Subjection to God but in this Sacrifice of the Mass the Offerer who is the Priest must be greater than the Offering 4. The Lord's Supper is only a Commemoration or Representation of Christ's Sacrifice and a Sacrifice of Thanksgiving but no proper or true Propitiatory Sacrifice Quest. 9. Why do not you believe a Transubstantiation in the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper Answ. 1. It is against all Sense for we may see and feel and hear and taste and smell that the Bread and Wine after Consecration are Bread and Wine still 2. It is against Reason that Christ's Body and Blood should be in a thousand places at once 3. It is against Scripture for Christ protests that his flesh profits nothing Joh. 6. 63. 4. It is against the Nature of a Sacrament which is an outward visible Sign of something Spiritual and Transubstantiation destroys the Sign 5. Christ himself explains what he means by saying This is my Body when he adds Do this in remembrance of me which remembrance supposes the absence of his Natural Body 6. It is against that Article of our Faith which saith That Christ is to continue in Heaven till the Restitution of all things And there is no necessity we should take the words literally any more than the words in Jo. 10. 7. I am the door c. 7. This is my Body is a Phrase or Form of Speech exactly like that of the Lamb in the Passover This Lamb is the Passeover i. e. the Memorial of it 8. These words This is my Body do not naturally infer a substantial change by the Confession of some Papists themselves 9. They themselves cannot be sure of this Change because they say it depends upon the Intention of the Priest 10. The Absurdities that flow from the Doctrine of Transubstantiation are innumerable for then Christ must have eaten himself the Disciples must have eaten up their Master Christ's Body may be lockt up in a Box for half a year together and longer c. Whereas the Doctrine of the Church of England that the Bread represents Christ's Body and upon that account is his Body hath no Inconveniency in it 11. Transubstantiation is against the Doctrine of the Primitive Church which calls the Bread the Figure of Christ's Body Quest. 10. Why do not you think it lawful for Laymen to receive the Communion in one kind only Answ. 1. Because Christ saith expresly to the Disciples Drink ye all of this 2. The Practice of the universal Church of Christ for a thousand years together is against it 3. The Council of Constance in the year 1416. was the first that durst venture
4th For all the pretences of Infallibility in the Church of Rome they cannot decide the Controversies that are among their own Members 5th Both Popes and General Councils have contradicted one another and therefore neither of them can be infallible 6th The pretence of Infallibility in the Church of Rome is nothing but a device to uphold their Temporal Grandeur and Dominion Quest. 21. Why do you think the Church of Rome is in an Error in forbidding the reading of the Bible to the Common People Answ. 1. Because Christ commands all sorts of Men to read the Scriptures Joh. 5. 39. 2. The Berrhaeans are commended for searching the Scriptures Acts 17. 11. 3. The Fathers in the Primitive Church exhorted the People to the frequent reading of the Scriptures 4. St. Paul charges the Thessalonians to take care that his Epistle be read to all the holy Brethren 1 Thess. 5. 27. 5. In the Jewish Church every Family was to have the Law in their Houses and to teach it their Children diligently Deut. 6. 7. 6. The pretence of the Obscurity of the Scripture in many places is insignificant since the Scripture is plain enough in things necessary to Salvation 7. The Church of Rome in forbidding the Bible to the Laity discovers her fear and the weakness of her Cause least the People should see her Errors and forsake her Quest. 22. UUhy do not you believe that the Books call'd Apocrypha are Canonical Scripture Answ. 1. Because the Oracles of the Old Testament were delivered to the Jewish Church Rom. 3. 2. and these were not 2. The Christian Church receiv'd from the Jews no other Books of Canonical Scripture but what are own'd as such by the Church of England 3. The Apocrypha were not written by Men inspired by the Holy Ghost and what is Scripture must be by Inspiration 2 Tim. 3. 16. 4. Some of the Authors beg the Readers pardon for their Mistakes which is not the Language of the Holy Ghost 5. The Antient Councils have rejected these Apocrypha as not Canonical particularly the Council of Laodicea 6. In the Primitive Churches they read these Apocrypha only for the Instruction of Mens Manners but did not resolve their Faith into them no more do we Quest. 23. UUhy do you find fault with the Church of Rome for asserting that the Church of England once a Member of her Communion had no power to reform her self Answ. 1. Because every Church hath a natural right to shake off the Abuses and Corruptions which are contrary to the Word of God 2. It is God's Command to private Men not to suffer themselves to be deluded by the slight of Men and cunning Craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive and therefore much more is a National Church concern'd to do so 3. In vain was any Reformation hoped for from the Bishop and Clergy of the Roman Church 4. It 's the proper Office of the Bishops of a National Church to take notice what Errors creep into their Churches and oppose them 5. And that they have right to do so appears from the Examples the Church of Judah had in the times of Jehoshaphat or Hezekiah or Josiah 6. In throwing off the power of the Pope of Rome we did not throw off Obedience to a lawful Soveraign but Subjection to an Usurper 7. We did no more than what the Orthodox Churches did after the Arian Councils of Ariminum and Seleucia in setting up the Nicene Faith again which those powerful Councils had banish'd 8. We made no new Religion but restor'd the old and built no new House but only swept out of the old the Rubbish which made it unwholesom and uninhabitable The End An Account of the Conference betwixt a Jesuit of the Savoy and my Self the 2d of January Present Mr. Stephens on my side Mrs. Chamberlain and Mr. Chamberlain and the Book-binder about whom the Conference was held he having been six years of the Church of Rome but somewhat unsatisfied and Mr. Lamb. About Seven of the Clock at Night THE first thing Discoursed was about the Doctrine of Calvinists which the Jesuit said made God the Author of Sin I told him that there are several Expressions which if a favourable Construction be put upon them will appear to be otherwise Next he fell upon Luther who should say that no Man could be damned if he would but for his Infidelity I said it was true that God condemned no Man that professed himself a Christian but for his Infidelity The Jesuit asked whether if a Man committed Theft he may be call'd an Infidel I said he acted like an Infidel and in that Act was so because he acted contrary to his Belief Mr. Chamberlain putting in something about that place 1 Tim. 2. about one Mediator The Jesuit argued he wonderd we should talk of one Mediator when every Man that pray'd for the other was a Mediator I told him in a large Sense he might be called so but in the Controversie before us were meant Mediators which are religiously worshipped Here happened a great rambling Discourse about Faith As distinguished from all good Works but I told them that by Faith I did not mean the bare Assent to the Doctrine but a practical Belief as it takes in the whole Word of God and living according to it The Book-binder was gone to call Mrs. Chamberlain and coming again by this time The Jesuit said they were come to satisfie Persons under some Doubts and therefore must fall upon some more material Points and since we Protestants sent people to the Scripture it was necessary we should begin to talk of the Rule of Faith and therefore he desired to know how we knew the Scripture to be the Word of God and from whom we had received our Bible I told him we had received it from the Catholick Church whose Testimony was very considerable in this Case He ask'd hereupon when we went off from the Church From what Church we did immediately receive it I answered him both from the Western or Roman and from the Churches of the East However I told him I would fairly grant him that we had received it immediately from the Church of Rome and I desired him to make the best of it Here he asked how we could receive the true Bible from a corrupt Church I asked him whether I might not receive a Pearl from a Chimney Sweeper He said we looked upon them for Rogues and Rascals Whereupon I told him we give them no such Language However sinc he used these Names whether a Man might not receive a 100 l. in very good Money from Rogues and Rascals He then argued That we look'd upon the Church of Rome as a corrupt Church and how can we be sure that we have the true Bible since we cannot be sure that a corrupt Church had not corrupted it I told him that they confessed themselves they had not corrupted it and besides they could not corrupt it for the Cheat
People These must certainly be the Reasons why we cannot now pass with the Church of Rome for Members of the Catholick Church That these things were not in the Antient Catholick Creeds I hope you are convinced for you have read them over and found none of all these Additions in them And now I beg of you in the name and by the mercy of that Jesus in whom you believe to judge which is most likely to be the truly Catholick Church ours or theirs Ours that keeps to the truly antient Catholick Faith or theirs that hath added things contrary to Scripture and Reason and Antiquity And dare you continue in a Church where your very Communion with it is an Approbation of their Actions which are directly contrary to the command of Christ Can there be any thing more contrary to it than their denying the Cup to the Laity And when you receive the Sacrament but in one kind contrary to Christ's Command do not you sin and allow of the Sin of that Church you are in Is not your Disobedience to Christ's Command a Sin or can you imagine that you are more obliged to obey Men than Christ himself You confess you dare not live in any one Sin But how dare you live in this Sin You talk of the benefit of Confession and Absolution when that very Priest to whom you confess and who absolves you lives in that Sin you are guilty of and neither absolves himself nor you from it and you both continue in it as if the Blind had a mind to lead the Blind How dare you act thus against your Reason and Conscience Are you not afraid when you are going to confess that God will laugh at your Mock Confession since you neither confess that Sin of living contrary to Christ's Command about the Cup nor are willing to part with it Tell me not here that you drink the Blood of Christ in eating his Flesh if so to what purpose doth the Priest consecrate Wine for himself if he drinks the Blood of Christ in eating his Flesh But suppose the Bread were transubstantiated into the Flesh and Blood of Christ you know that the not giving the Cup of Blessing to those that come to the Lord's Supper is contrary to Christ's Institution who distinctly consecrated the Cup and gave that to his Disciples who were Representatives of all Believers as well as the Bread and peremptorily commanded Drink ye all of this and I hope you do not call eating the consecrated Wafer drinking the Wafer But let Us grant you your strange Doctrine that you do participate of the Blood of Christ in eating the consecrated Wafer who gave your Church Authority to alter Christ's Institution How can Men dispence with an express Law of God Can they annull what God would have Established and continue to the Worlds end And can you consent to so great a Sacriledge Doth not some horror seize on you when you seriously think that you approve of the Priests sinning against so notorious a Precept and which he that runs may read And pray Madam wherein have you bettered your self in going over to the Roman Church Is this your proficiency in Religion to forsake a Church where you felt the lively Oracles of Heaven coming warm upon your Soul and to joyn your self to a Church where you hear nothing but Latine Prayers and where the Priest if he be not a good man may as well Curse you as Bless you for any thing you understand of his Language or Devotion Is this Your proficiency in Religion to leave a Church where you were taught to Worship God in Spirit and in Truth and now to cleave to one where they teach your Prayers to go upon Crutches of Crucifixes Beads and Images Doth this look like that Noble Religion which Christ taught the World and whose design was to advance our Rational Souls by Contemplation and Meditation O Madam you are too Young to know the Tricks of that Church you live in they are more politick Heads than yours is that had the contriving of it Bold Men that had Learnt not to Blush at a Lye and then thought it their interest to Hector the World into a belief of it We that can Read Books as well as they and know the History of the Church as well as they can see through all these devices which they perceiving are angry with Us for discovering the Cheat. What was it Madam that you wanted in our Church to carry you to Heaven did you want that which the Apostles and the Primitive Christians never wanted I mean did you want more Articles of Faith than they subscribed and believed If you wanted that we Confess we could not supply you for we dare say nothing and believe nothing with Divine Faith but what Moses and the Prophets and Christ and his Apostles have taught us If the Scripture contains all things necessary to Salvation then we teach all that If the Church of ROME knows more Articles than Christ or his Apostles knew of we will admire her insolence but cannot satisfie her unreasonable desire Did you want strictness of Life in our Church If all the Commands of the Gospel can make you Holy We teach them all and press them upon the People and I presume you do not aim to be Holier than Christ and his Apostles would have you to be Hath the Church of ROME another Gospel to teach you than that we did instruct you in if they have much good it may do them We are not fond of the Apostle's Curse Should an Angel from Heaven bring another Gospel to you let him be accursed I know your common Plea that We Protestants cannot rightly interpret the Scripture because We pretend to no infallibility And do you blame Us for not being so impudent as the Church of ROME There is no Protestant but would be glad there were an infallible Interpreter of Scripture instituted by God and recommended to Mankind But where shall we find him Who is it that God hath imparted this Honour to If you say the Fathers you know not what you say for the Fathers differ many times as much in interpretation of the Scipture and are as contrary to one another as any Men. If you say the Church that 's a hard Word if you mean Christ's Universal Church dispersed all the World over you must tell us where it is that this Church hath left an infallible Comment upon the Bible and how is it possible for a man that will be resolved in a point to go to all Christian People in the World if you say the Church of ROME you must first shew Us her Commission for this infallible interpretation Secondly you must prove She hath infallibly interpreted the Scriptures and that those interpretations are infallible in all places Thirdly you must agree among your selves what part of your Church is infallible whether the Pope or an Universal Council or all Christian People or whether all these