thus for I wil be brief The Councel of Laodicea though a prouinciall Councell Constant in Trullo Can. 2. yet allowed by a generall Councel of Constantinople did set down the same Canon of the Scriptures which both the old church had and our church doth holde and commandeth Ne aliqui praeterea legantur in auctoritatem recipiantur That none besides be read and receiued into authoritie Canon 47. Sess 3. The third Councel of Carthage which therin the Councel of Trent subscribeth to did adde the bookes of the Maccabees and the rest of the Apocrypha to the olde Canon contrary to the sayd Councels of Laodicea and Constantinople Can. 6. The Councel of Nice appointed boundes and limits aswell for the Bishop of Romes iurisdiction as for other Bishops contrary to which the Councell of Lateran gaue the Souereignty of ordinary power Can. 5. apud Innocent 3. to the church of Rome Conc. Conâ—tant as it is extant Nice 2. Act. 6. Tom. 6. ouer all Churches The Councel of Constantinople condemned the setting vp of Images contrary to which The Councell of Nice Aen. Sylu. de Conc. Basil contr Flor. Perrar Conc. Constant Sess 4. 5. accurseth those that worship not holy images I will inlarge this part no further though I could shewe that some Councels haue decréed That the Councell is aboue the Pope some that the Pope is aboue the Councel The next is thus prooued First this is an infallible rule That Councels decréeing things contrary as is instanced in these few examples before It must of necessitie follow that the one of them must erre yet wil I prooue it by some more particulars The second Councel of Nice decréed Act. 5. That Angels and mens soules are bodily circumscriptible and yet this Councel notwithstanding this grosse error was confirmed by the Councell held at Constantinople which Pope Agatho hath allowed for a generall Councel In the Councell of Neocesaria confirmed by Leo the 4. second mariage is forbidden Canon 7. The Canon saith he is commanded to enioyne penance for second mariage The Councel of Toletan saith Tolet. 1. Can. 17. He that hath not a wife but in stead of his wife a concubine is not for this cause to be repelled the communion This Councell was confirmed by Leo â—s it may appeare Canon 21. In the sixt generall Councel Can. 72. the mariages betwixt Catholikes and Heretikes are iudged to be voide Now whether these be grosse and manifest errors I referre it to the censure of any indifferent Reader But these absurdities they are forced to giue way to or else to ouerthrowe that maine pillar of Popery That the Church cannot erre The last part which I promised to shewe is That Councels are reiected by the Papists This is prooued for that many things are reiected by them in both the said Exceptions But I will instance some few more Andradius the defender of the Tridentine Councell in his first booke reiecteth the Councell of Chalcedon one of those first foure Councels which Gregorie professeth to receiue as the holy Gospels saying This Councell erred in that it did rashly and without reason ordaine That the Church of Constantinople should be aboue the Church of Alexandria and Antioch Conc. Chal. de Laicis ca. 20. Praefat. in li de pont Bellarmine saith That in the Councell of Chalcedon there is somthing good and something euill and that we may receiue the one and refuse the other And in another place he dispenseth with himselfe to reproue in the samâ— manner the Councell of Constantinople for hauing attempted somewhat that did not â—lease the Church of Rome Bellar. de Conc. eccles li 10. ca. 60.70 Pighi Hier. eccles li. 6. cap. 4. 5. 7. And he reiecteth wholly seuen general Councels Reade likewise what Pighius hath written of purpose â—o discredit the sixt and seuenth Synodes And â—e impugneth the Councel of Constance and Basil Now though we haue prooued the thrée parâ—icularities proposed wherein our lawful and â—â—st ExceptioÌ„s against Councels are euident â—et let vs sée whether our assertioÌ„ in this point â—e iustified both by the Fathers and chiefe and â—earned Papists Saint Augustine sayth That generall Councels are often amended the former by â—he later and if our aduersaries obiect That â—hey are amended but not from errors What â—éede amending where no fault is The conâ—itions which S. Augustine repeateth in the â—â—rst indureth to the last Si quid fortè à veritaâ—e deuiatum est If in ought they swarne from â—he trueth And it is manifest by the drift of â—he place writing against the Donatists Epist 7◠〈◊〉 Iubai that maintained the authority of the Councel holâ—en by S. Cyprian against the trueth that hée speaketh manifestly of Correction of errors â—nd not of things indifferent as the Papists â—lose to maintaine their error That generall Councels cannot erre In Epist ad procopi The Arrians preuailed so by Councels that it made Gregorie Nazianzen to despaire that euer any good would bee done by Councels Saint Augustine rehearsing two Episcopall iudgements Epist 16.7 that passed against the Donatists in the Councels at Rome and Arle he sheweth how Councels might bind vs But saith he let these be counted the iudgements of men and let it be said They might either deceiue or be deceiued and perhaps corrupted Saint Augustine hauing shewed that thâ— Councell of Ariminum being deceiued by the subtilty of a fewe decréed against the Councel of Nice which had decréed against the Arrian Heretikes Cont. Maxi. li. 3. ca. 14. concludeth thus against Maximinus But now neither ought I to producâ— the Councell of Nice nor you the Councell oâ— Ariminum for a preiudice for neither am I bound to the authoritie of this nor you to thâ— authoritie of that Thus you sée he confesseth that his aduersarie was not tied to the authoritie of the great Nicen Councel comparablâ— to the which no Councel was euer yet Yea S Hillarie was nothing afraid to be condemneâ— in many Councels Hillar cont Auxent Arrian Now let him gather whaâ— Councels he will against me saith he and openly proscribe me for an Heretike as he had often done The Arrians in 26 yéers Euseb li. 7. cap. 5. gathered framed sundry Councels for their purpose at Tyrus Ierusalem Philippi Sirmium Ariminum Sozom. li. 4. ca. 9. Selucia Constantinople and two at Antiochia In the Councell of Millan aboue thrée hundred of the West Bishops consented that Athanasius should bee thrust from his Bishopricke There was but fiue against thrée hundred that openly and plainely withstood it And Leo writeth of the famous Councell of Chalcedon Tanquam refutari nequeat quod illicitè voluerit multitudo In Epist 52. ad Anatholium As though that might not be refuted which a multitude hath vnlawfully decreed Yea Panor de Elect electi potestate c. significasti your owne men haue béen of the
obiections of the errors of Popes and Councels refuted So can I whensoeuer you shall instance any such particular refutation which may ease you of some paines if it be so sufficiently performed referre you to some of the authors of our side where the same reasons haue been with no lesse sufficiencie handled and replied to assuring my selfe That neither any of you haue or can make any obiections against the doctrine we professe that hath not beene already obiected and likewise by vs answered And if any will shew me the contrary I will be beholding to him neither will I shut mine eyes against the trueth If this which I haue sayd may any whit preuaile with you to make shew of that great learning whereof in your Letter you haue boasted by your liberall vndertaking to proue so many particulars which hitherto as great Clerkes as your selfe haue failed in I shall be ready and willing to performe whatsoeuer I haue herein promised Otherwise I pray you returne the booke as you receiued it and you shall see that some such course shal be taken as shal make you blush to haue censured so rashly Your friend in Christianity and Charitie T. V. A briefe view of the weaknesse of the Grounds of Popish Religion as is euident by these seuerall Obiections and Answeres following Protestant 1WHereupon doe you ground your Religion Papist Vpon the word of God interpreted by the Church which cannot erre Protestant 2 What do you vnderstand by the Word of God Papist The Scriptures and Traditions Protestant 3 What doe you vnderstand by the Church Papist Stapl. princi doct l. 7 ca. 10. l. 11 ca. 5 Hervaeus de potest pap R. Cupers Petrus de Palude de potest papae Aâ— 4. The Church is sometimes taken for the auncient Fathers sometimes for generall Councels Sometimes we preferre the head of the Church the Pope before both Protestant 4 Well that we may procéede orderly in the handling of these particulars Doe you receiue all the bookes of the Old and Newe Testaments with equall authoritie Papist No but following the Tradition of the Church we distinguish betweene the Canonicall and the Apocrypha Protestant 5 Which are the Bookes which you call Apocrypha Papist Wee hold as Apocrypha The prayer of Manasses the third and fourth booke of Esdras Also others that are not vsuall in your English Bibles as an Appendix to the booke of Iob The 151. Psalme A preface to the Lamentations of Ieremie The third and fourth booke of Maccabees Protestant 6 Well we agrée with you in the reiection of these Bookes And we likewise consent with you That all the bookes of the New Testament as they stand are to be receiued of all for Canonicall Scripture What are then the Bookes that are in question betwéene vs Papist There be 7. Chapters of Hester certaine Stories annexed to Daniel as Of Bel and the DragoÌ„ Of Susanna Of the three childreÌ„ Also the Epistle of Baruch ioyned to Ieremie Then the books of Tobie Iudeth The Wisedom of Salomon Ecclesiasticus Two bookes of the Maccabees These we repute as Canonical both by the testimony of the Fathers and by the authoritie of the Church Protestant 7 Well Since I shall haue cause hereafter to speake of the Church I wil but briefly giue a touch to the reason of the refusall of these Bookes All Canonicall Scriptures in the old Testament were written by the Prophets We haue a sure word of the Prophets 2. Pet. 1.19 saith Saint Peter And Saint Paul calleth them The Scriptures of the Prophets Rom. 16 2â— But none of those Bookes afore named of Tobias of Iudeth and the rest were written by the Prophets Therefore none of those Bookes are Canonical All the Bookes of the olde Testament that were Canonicall were acknowledged of the Iewes and Hebrewes and written in Hebrew But the Iewes receiued none of these Books into the Canon of the Scriptures though to them were committed the Oracles of God as Saint Paul sayth neither were they in the Hebrew tongue Ergo they are not Canonicall But to the end you may sée how well the Church of which you boast agrées with the testimonies of the Fathers both ancient moderne Hier prol galeat Eâ—i ad Pauli in praefat â—i Reg in praefat in â—ro Salom. I wil giue you this taste briefly S. Hierom saith The Church readeth those bookes but receiueth them not amongst the Canonicall Scriptures The summe of all which is confirmed by these testimonies following whose particular spéeches to this purpose for breuitie sake I omit referring you to the places themselues as they are here following set down As Rufinus in his exposition vpon the Créede Cyril of Hierusalem in the 4. of his Catechisme Athanasius in Synop. Sacr. Scriptur Nazianzen in Carminis Epiphan li. de Mensur ponder Cyprian vpon the Créed Damasâ—en ca. 49. Hugo de Sanct. Victor de Sacram. in prol li. 1. ca. 7. Radulphus in Leuit. li. 14. c. 1. Lyra in prol in li. Apocry Hugo Cardina in prol Iosu All these contradict the opinion of the Papists in this controuersie yea Arias Montanus a chiefe Papist in his Hebrew Bible writeth in the forefront principal leafe of the booke There are added saith he in this Edition the bookes written in Gréek which the Catholike Church following the Canon of the Hebrews reckoneth amongst the Apocrypha The Councel of Laodicea Can. 59. Constantinop in Trul lo Can. 2. allured by a general Councel of Constantinople in Trullo did set downe the same Canon of the scriptures which both the old Church had our church doth hold commandeth Ne aliqui praeterea legantur in auctoritateÌ„ recipiaÌ„tur That none besides be read receiued into authority I omit many seueral contradictions in al or most of the books which we reiect they allow wherby they may be conuinced not to be written by the spirit of God which is alwaies one the same Sée the 4. Esdras 10.20 2. Maccab. 2.4 1. Mac. 1.6 8. touching Antiochus yea we wil confesse with Bellarmin Bellar. de ver Dei li. 1. cap. â— That the scriptures may be proued to be the Word of God by the constant perpetual truth of the Prophecies By the wonderful harmony consent of the holy writers of the Scriptures By the Spirit of God which is a principall witnes vnto vs By the scripture it selfe 2. Tim. 3. Lastly by the many great miracles wrought by the Prophets Apostles which do testifie for the truth thereof To the which touchstone if the Scriptures whith wee reiect were brought to the triall they would easily bee conuinced to bee but drosse and vnworthy to stand in the rankes of those that are Canonicall But how doe you knowe which are the Scriptures and in them which be Canonicall which be Apocrypha Papist I knowe by the testimonie of the Church which be the Scriptures and in them
rather to the whole Church consisting of the faithfull as the Protestants vnderstand it S. August saith Aug. in Psal 47. in prâ—ef We may not vnderstand the second of the Sabbath to be any other than the Church of Christ yet the Church of Christ in the Saints the church of Christ in those that are not ouercome with the tentations of this wicked world for they are worthy the name of firmament Therfore the church of Christ is called the firmament in those that are firme which is saith hee the Church of the liuing God the pillar and firmament of trueth Aug. de Bap li. 7. cap 3 Tom. 6. The like saying hath S. Augustine in many other places but specially where he writeth against the Donatists Saint Chrysostome expoundeth this place of the verity it selfe Chrys Hoâ— 11 in 1. Tim. 3. and not of the Pastors or Councels as the Papists do For sayth he the verity of the church is both the pillar and the firmament And if you will sée that the Fathers haue vnderstood the church as the Protestants do reade S. Augu. Enchirid. â— Laurent caâ— 56. expounding the Articles of the Créed where he saith that the Church is here to be taken for the whole not for that part onely which is a stranger vpon earth Aug. in Psal 137. Againe he saith There is a Church beneath there is a Church aboue the Church beneath in all the faithfull c. Ibid. Psal 90. Conc. 2. Likewise the whole church euery where diffused is the body of Christ and hee is the head of it Not onely the faithfull which are now but also they that were before vs from the beginning of the world and they that shall be after vs to the ende of the world doe all pertaine to this bodie The church is the bodie of Christ not the church which is here or there but which is here and euery where thorowout the world c. And often times in his writings he affirmeth the Catholike church to consist of all the predestinate De ciuitat Dei li. 21. ca. 25. de Bapt. â—i 6. ca. 3. In Iohn Tract 45. which are the members of Christs mysticall bodie and that no wicked men perteine vnto it but only the good holy and iust But to conclude this point with one whom you haue euer reputed your owne Anselmus super hunc locum saith The house in which God dwelleth is the whole congregation of the faithfull who are to be taught diuersly and the same Church is in the perfect a pillar that is sublime streight inconcussible supporting and lifting vp the yonger sort and in the same perfect it is the firmament of trueth because both by words and examples it confirmeth in the hearts of the weake the veritie of faith and Gods commandements Thus you sée the Church is by these testimonies vnderstood to be the congregation of the faithfull and not generall Councels or Pope And it is truely gathered out of these words of Anselmus which are to be taught that the church consisteth aswell of the Laity as the Cleargie Now if you will see how the church may be knowen Chrysostome saith Hom. in Mat. 49 Before it might be shewed many waies which was the church of Christ But nowe it is no way to be knowen but onely by the Scriptures S. Augustine saith as we may truely say of the Papists Let the Donatists saith he shew their church De vnitat eccles ca. 16. not in the rumors and speaches of the men of Africa nor in the Councels of their Bishops nor in their discourses of any writer whosoeuer nor in signes and miracles that may be forged but in the prescript of the law in the predictions of the Prophets in the verses of the Psalmes in the voices of the shepheard himselfe in the preachings and workes of the Euangelist that is in all the Canonicall authorities of the sacred Scriptures And binding himselfe to the same condition he addeth But whether they hold the Church Ibidem let them shew no otherwise than by the Canonical books of the holy scriptures because wee our selues doe not say wee must therefore bee beléeued for that wee are in the church of Christ or else for that Optatus Ambrose and infinite other Bishops of our communion haue commended the church which we hold or because our Church hath béen published in the Councels of our Collegues Chrysost in Mat. Hom. 16. Chrysostome sayth Euen so touching this new Ierusalem which is the Church they that were spiritual Christian men leauing the bodily church which the wicked by violence had inuaded departed out froÌ„ them Or as S. Iohn expoundeth it they rather departed out froÌ„ vs for hee séemeth not indeed to depart from the church that bodily departeth but he that spiritually leaueth the foundations of the Ecclesiastical truth We haue departed froÌ„ them in body they haue departed from vs in mind we from them in place they from vs by faith we haue left with them the foundations of the wals they with vs the foundations of the scriptures we are departed froÌ„ them in the sight of man they are departed froÌ„ vs in the iudgement of God But now after that the spirituall church is come forth the bodily church is left forsaken that is to say froÌ„ the people that séemed to be a christian people was not this people is gone forth that séemed not outwardly but was so indéed notwithstanding as we haue said before they are rather departed from vs than we from them Now let the indifferent Reader iudge by Chrysostomes iudgement whether the Papists or we by this description may be truliest reputed the true church for I thinke it is euident to all that they haue the foundations of the wals and we the foundations of the Scriptures which they so blasphemously speak of we are departed froÌ„ them in the sight of man but they froÌ„ vs in the sight of God who they were that séemed to be a christian people and were not let that be tried by the Scriptures And if you wil know what authority the Fathers giue to the church S. Aug. saith Cont. Crescâ— li. 2. ca. 21. Idem oper imperf in Mat. Ho. 49 The church may not preferre her selfe before Christ neither may we beleeue the true churches themselues vnles they say do those things that are consonant to the scriptures The church may not preferre her self before Christ Idem contrâ— Crescon li 2 cap. 21. for so much as hee alwaies iudgeth rightly ecclesiastical Iudges as being but men are often deceiued Many be the testimonies that might be brought to this purpose but to procéed we make the same iust exceptions against general Councels that we did against the Fathers First we will prooue that they are contrary one to another Secondly that they haue erred And lastly that they are reiected by the Papists Canon 59. The first Exception I prooue