of_o pray_v to_o saint_n and_o angel_n must_v be_v a_o abomination_n for_o god_n will_v allow_v of_o nothing_o in_o his_o service_n and_o worship_n but_o what_o he_o himself_o have_v institute_v therefore_o all_o protestant_a divine_n have_v with_o one_o consent_n agree_v that_o all_o necessary_a part_n of_o religious_a worship_n do_v so_o depend_v upon_o the_o will_n of_o god_n reveal_v in_o his_o word_n that_o whatsoever_o be_v not_o found_v on_o his_o word_n be_v contrary_a to_o his_o will._n therefore_o sir_n hear_v what_o the_o great_a doctor_n of_o the_o church_n st._n augustine_n say_v de_fw-fr consens_fw-la evangel_n deum_fw-la sic_fw-la colere_fw-la open_v rtet_fw-la quo_fw-la modo_fw-la seipsum_fw-la colendum_fw-la esse_fw-la praecepit_fw-la we_o ought_v so_o to_o worship_n god_n as_o he_o have_v appoint_v himself_o to_o be_v worship_v be_v please_v to_o remember_v what_o the_o scripture_n say_v deut._n 12._o last_o verse_n the_o israelite_n be_v dehort_v from_o use_v the_o 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the_o bishop_n of_o constantia_n in_o the_o second_o nicene_n council_n be_v so_o zealous_a for_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n that_o he_o lay_v aside_o this_o distinction_n of_o latria_n and_o dulia_n and_o very_o roundly_o in_o libro_fw-la carole_n magni_fw-la tell_v you_o his_o thought_n of_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n ego_fw-la imaginibus_fw-la cultum_fw-la honoris_fw-la exhibeo_fw-la eundem_fw-la qui_fw-la debetur_fw-la individuae_fw-la trinitati_fw-la &_o si_fw-la quis_fw-la nolit_fw-la idem_fw-la facere_fw-la eum_fw-la anathematizo_fw-la ut_fw-la martionem_fw-la &_o manichaeum_fw-la i_o for_o my_o part_n yield_v unto_o image_n the_o same_o adoration_n of_o honour_n that_o be_v due_a to_o the_o holy_a trinity_n and_o if_o any_o man_n refuse_v to_o do_v the_o same_o i_o accurse_v he_o as_o i_o do_v the_o heretic_n martion_n and_o maenicheus_n now_o sir_n this_o distinction_n of_o your_o churchman_n fall_v to_o the_o ground_n if_o the_o authority_n of_o this_o doctor_n and_o bishop_n of_o your_o church_n may_v pass_v for_o currant_n but_o lest_o you_o shall_v wave_v the_o authority_n of_o this_o bishop_n i_o pray_v consider_v the_o determination_n of_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a where_o it_o be_v determine_v thus_o non_fw-la sunt_fw-la dvae_fw-la adorationes_fw-la sed_fw-la una_fw-la adoratio_fw-la imaginis_fw-la &_o primi_fw-la exemplaris_fw-la cujus_fw-la est_fw-la imago_fw-la there_o be_v not_o two_o sort_n of_o worship_n or_o adoration_n the_o one_o call_v latria_n the_o other_o dulia_n as_o your_o divine_n divide_v they_o but_o one_o only_a adoration_n both_o of_o the_o image_n and_o also_o of_o the_o pattern_n whereof_o the_o image_n be_v likewise_o your_o great_a doctor_n thomas_n of_o aquine_n after_o a_o long_a debate_n upon_o the_o point_n of_o the_o worship_v of_o image_n and_o show_v with_o what_o worship_n they_o ought_v to_o be_v worship_v the_o image_n say_v he_o and_o the_o thing_n thereby_o represent_v must_v be_v worship_v with_o one_o and_o the_o same_o adoration_n tho._n 3_o senten_n dist_n 2._o and_o for_o example_n say_v the_o cross_n or_o image_n of_o christ_n must_v be_v worship_v with_o latria_n that_o be_v with_o godly_a honour_n because_o christ_n himself_o be_v so_o honour_a and_o the_o image_n of_o our_o lady_n with_o dulia_n because_o that_o honour_n as_o he_o say_v be_v due_a unto_o our_o lady_n but_o this_o determination_n be_v reprove_v by_o holcot_n in_o his_o readins_n upon_o the_o book_n of_o wisdom_n read_v 158_o and_o his_o reason_n be_v this_o latria_n or_o godly_a honour_n be_v due_a only_a unto_o god_n but_o the_o image_n of_o god_n be_v not_o god_n therefore_o latria_n or_o godly_a honour_n be_v not_o due_a to_o a_o image_n otherwise_o say_v he_o the_o creator_n and_o the_o creature_n will_v be_v worship_v or_o adore_v with_o one_o and_o the_o same_o honour_n and_o notwithstanding_o henricus_fw-la de_fw-la gandavo_fw-la petrus_n de_fw-fr aquila_n johannes_n de_fw-fr gui_n verra_n durandus_fw-la and_o other_o school-doctor_n of_o your_o communion_n agree_v with_o holcot_n and_o their_o judgement_n seem_v more_o agreeable_a to_o reason_n yet_o your_o author_n that_o write_v fortalitium_fw-la fidei_fw-la say_v the_o common_a opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o your_o church_n hold_v to_o the_o contrary_n and_o one_o jacobus_n payva_n a_o great_a stickler_n on_o that_o side_n with_o great_a assurance_n write_v thus_o non_fw-la tamen_fw-la inficiamur_fw-la hac_fw-la nos_fw-la latriae_fw-la adoratione_n christi_fw-la praeclarissimam_fw-la crucem_fw-la colere_fw-la &_o venerari_fw-la we_o deny_v not_o but_o we_o do_v worship_n and_o adore_v the_o most_o noble_a cross_n of_o christ_n even_o with_o this_o godly_a honour_n that_o we_o call_v latria_n sir_n be_v please_v to_o take_v notice_n that_o some_o of_o your_o divine_n the_o better_a to_o colour_v the_o absurdity_n of_o this_o way_n of_o adoration_n they_o will_v in_o all_o their_o write_n refer_v the_o adoration_n of_o the_o thing_n represent_v by_o the_o image_n yet_o i_o
divales_fw-la sacras_fw-la jussiones_fw-la de_fw-la veniendo_fw-la aut_fw-la mittendo_fw-la ad_fw-la concilium_fw-la recepit_fw-la the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n do_v not_o so_o depend_v upon_o he_o by_o who_o it_o be_v summon_v so_o that_o unless_o it_o be_v summon_v by_o the_o pope_n it_o can_v be_v no_o council_n for_o so_o we_o shall_v avoid_v the_o first_o eight_o general_n council_n for_o we_o read_v they_o be_v summon_v by_o the_o emperor_n and_o not_o by_o pope_n and_o the_o pope_n receive_v the_o emperor_n majesty_n commandment_n to_o come_v or_o send_v to_o council_n as_o other_o patriarch_n do_v and_o your_o own_o writer_n have_v own_v that_o the_o council_n of_o ephesus_n which_o be_v the_o three_o general_n council_n be_v hold_v under_o theodosius_n the_o young_a and_o by_o his_o order_n that_o holy_a father_n do_v preside_v and_o not_o from_o any_o legantine_n authority_n he_o receive_v from_o pope_n celestine_n here_o you_o fail_v in_o this_o particular_a and_o therefore_o we_o have_v just_a cause_n to_o question_v the_o whole_a but_o this_o shall_v suffice_v as_o to_o the_o first_o enquiry_n 2._o i_o pray_v how_o do_v you_o prove_v that_o cyril_n speak_v this_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o whole_a council_n for_o if_o that_o the_o whole_a council_n be_v not_o for_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n and_o angel_n he_o can_v not_o be_v say_v to_o speak_v in_o their_o name_n then_o how_o can_v he_o in_o their_o name_n make_v such_o a_o address_n to_o the_o virgin_n without_o be_v depute_v by_o they_o if_o it_o have_v be_v say_v by_o you_o that_o he_o do_v in_o the_o name_n of_o theodosius_n the_o emperor_n make_v this_o prayer_n you_o have_v say_v something_o for_o pray_v to_o saint_n be_v then_o scarce_o hear_v of_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god._n i_o confess_v towards_o the_o latter_a part_n of_o the_o four_o century_n it_o begin_v to_o creep_v into_o the_o church_n but_o be_v question_v again_o by_o the_o council_n of_o carthage_n and_o the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n both_o which_o council_n determine_v against_o the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n in_o the_o 35_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n it_o be_v thus_o determine_v that_o christian_n ought_v not_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o go_v and_o call_v upon_o angel_n and_o make_v meeting_n which_o be_v thing_n forbid_v let_v he_o be_v accurse_v because_o he_o have_v forsake_v the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n the_o son_n of_o god_n and_o apply_v himself_o to_o idolatry_n theodoret_n in_o his_o exposition_n upon_o the_o colossian_n do_v twice_o mention_v this_o canon_n and_o declare_v the_o sense_n of_o it_o upon_o col._n 3._o 17._o the_o apostle_n say_v he_o command_v we_o to_o adorn_v our_o word_n and_o deed_n with_o the_o commemoration_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n and_o to_o send_v up_o our_o thanksgiving_n unto_o god_n the_o father_n by_o he_o and_o not_o by_o angel_n the_o synod_n of_o laodicea_n follow_v also_o this_o rule_n and_o desire_v to_o heal_v this_o old_a disease_n viz._n angel-worship_n make_v a_o law_n that_o they_o shall_v not_o pray_v unto_o angel_n nor_o forsake_v our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n and_o on_o col._n 2._o he_o add_v that_o this_o vice_n continue_v long_o in_o phrygia_n and_o pisidia_n for_o which_o cause_n the_o synod_n assemble_v at_o laodicea_n the_o chief_a city_n of_o phrygia_n and_o forbid_v they_o by_o a_o law_n to_o pray_v unto_o angel_n can_v it_o then_o be_v suppose_v that_o the_o whole_a council_n of_o ephesus_n shall_v be_v agree_v in_o the_o point_n of_o pray_v to_o saint_n and_o angel_n since_o both_o these_o council_n have_v determine_v against_o it_o how_o then_o can_v st._n cyril_n do_v this_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o whole_a council_n for_o it_o be_v well_o know_v that_o there_o be_v yet_o never_o any_o general_n council_n that_o have_v determine_v for_o it_o 3._o let_v we_o know_v sir_n how_o you_o prove_v that_o ever_o st._n cyril_n do_v speak_v those_o word_n or_o make_v such_o a_o formal_a prayer_n as_o you_o pretend_v he_o make_v i_o have_v give_v myself_o the_o trouble_n of_o read_v the_o council_n of_o ephesus_n but_o i_o find_v nothing_o at_o all_o of_o the_o business_n and_o therefore_o you_o will_v do_v well_o to_o examine_v that_o council_n once_o more_o and_o let_v we_o have_v the_o prayer_n in_o greek_a without_o a_o etc._n etc._n but_o i_o will_v tell_v you_o i_o have_v great_a reason_n to_o suspect_v the_o truth_n of_o it_o because_o i_o perceive_v you_o take_v it_o upon_o the_o credit_n of_o baronius_n who_o be_v one_o of_o your_o own_o writer_n and_o therefore_o worthy_o suspect_v it_o for_o certain_o it_o be_v his_o design_n in_o all_o his_o history_n to_o promote_v the_o doctrine_n and_o interest_n of_o the_o church_n and_o see_v of_o rome_n if_o you_o will_v show_v we_o st._n cyril_n speech_n it_o will_v go_v a_o great_a way_n further_o as_o to_o its_o reputation_n yet_o sir_n consider_v your_o divine_n have_v falsify_v that_o council_n of_o ephesus_n and_o have_v represent_v that_o council_n to_o have_v determine_v against_o administer_a the_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n which_o be_v a_o mere_a falsehood_n because_o the_o cup_n be_v not_o deny_v to_o the_o laity_n for_o several_a hundred_o year_n after_o but_o if_o it_o be_v take_v away_o why_o be_v there_o no_o decree_n make_v thereupon_o that_o be_v extant_a in_o that_o council_n nor_o any_o mention_n of_o by_o any_o learned_a man_n within_o a_o great_a time_n after_o and_o those_o that_o lay_v first_o that_o doctrine_n upon_o the_o whole_a council_n may_v as_o easy_o make_v a_o speech_n for_o st._n cyril_n and_o a_o prayer_n for_o he_o too_o to_o the_o virgin_n mary_n the_o better_a to_o give_v countenance_n to_o that_o way_n of_o worship_n the_o next_o proof_n you_o bring_v forth_o be_v a_o prayer_n of_o st._n gregory_n nyssen_n unto_o st._n theodore_n in_o these_o word_n martyr_n use_v the_o liberty_n you_o enjoy_v speak_v for_o your_o fellow-servant_n you_o have_v conquer_v the_o world_n but_o you_o have_v not_o forget_v the_o passion_n and_o necessity_n our_o human_a condition_n be_v liable_a unto_o ask_v for_o peace_n that_o those_o public_a meeting_n may_v continue_v that_o the_o enrage_a and_o wicked_a barbarian_n may_v not_o plunder_v and_o destroy_v our_o church_n and_o altar_n that_o no_o impious_a man_n tread_v the_o holy_a thing_n underfoot_n for_o we_o that_o have_v be_v untouched_a and_o alive_a do_v own_o ourselves_o oblige_v to_o you_o for_o that_o blessing_n and_o will_v ask_v your_o protection_n and_o security_n for_o the_o future_a no_o doubt_n but_o st._n theodere_n may_v be_v a_o worthy_a saint_n and_o martyr_n of_o christ_n to_o who_o this_o st._n gregory_n may_v use_v a_o rhetorical_a apostrophe_n though_o he_o be_v not_o present_a in_o person_n yet_o he_o may_v be_v present_a by_o his_o picture_n or_o some_o monument_n that_o be_v set_v up_o in_o the_o honour_n of_o so_o great_a a_o saint_n but_o sir_n remember_v the_o psalmist_n he_o call_v upon_o angel_n to_o praise_n god_n and_o all_o the_o host_n of_o heaven_n the_o sun_n the_o moon_n and_o all_o the_o star_n of_o light_n he_o call_v upon_o dragon_n and_o all_o deep_n he_o call_v upon_o the_o fire_n haile_o snow_n and_o vapour_n to_o praise_n god_n not_o that_o the_o fire_n do_v hear_v he_o or_o the_o sun_n moon_n and_o star_n or_o mountain_n hill_n fruitful_a tree_n or_o cedar_n do_v hear_v he_o yet_o here_o be_v invocation_n but_o answer_v i_o plain_o be_v these_o word_n speak_v by_o way_n of_o adoration_n be_v this_o a_o formal_a prayer_n to_o st._n theodore_n or_o only_o a_o acknowledgement_n only_o that_o god_n for_o the_o sake_n of_o that_o saint_n have_v preserve_v the_o church_n you_o know_v that_o god_n do_v for_o the_o sake_n of_o abraham_n show_v many_o favour_n to_o the_o people_n israel_n and_o for_o the_o sake_n of_o st._n paul_n a_o whole_a ship_n company_n be_v preserve_v as_o you_o may_v see_v in_o act_n 27._o 24._o fear_v not_o paul_n thou_o must_v be_v bring_v before_o caesar_n and_o so_o god_n have_v give_v thou_o all_o they_o that_o sail_n with_o thou_o as_o in_o the_o same_o sense_n that_o the_o people_n that_o sail_v with_o paul_n be_v oblige_v to_o paul_n for_o their_o preservation_n in_o the_o same_o sense_n do_v this_o holy_a gregory_n tell_v st._n theodore_n that_o those_o who_o have_v escape_v the_o cruelty_n of_o the_o barbarian_n and_o be_v alive_a they_o be_v oblige_v to_o he_o for_o that_o mercy_n but_o you_o will_v say_v that_o st._n gregory_n say_v that_o we_o own_v ourselves_o oblige_v to_o you_o for_o this_o preservation_n and_o we_o will_v ask_v your_o protection_n for_o the_o future_a that_o be_v the_o same_o protection_n he_o do_v not_o pray_v to_o st._n theodore_n to_o
decree_n in_o the_o case_n i_o therefore_o judge_v that_o your_o cite_n the_o council_n be_v to_o little_a or_o no_o purpose_n the_o practice_n of_o a_o number_n of_o bishop_n be_v no_o warrant_n for_o any_o doctrine_n whatsoever_o unless_o approve_v allow_v and_o decree_v by_o a_o general_n council_n you_o have_v meet_v with_o sundry_a debate_n among_o learned_a man_n that_o have_v not_o be_v oppose_v by_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o council_n yet_o when_o the_o question_n have_v be_v put_v it_o have_v be_v carry_v against_o the_o debate_n though_o they_o have_v appear_v with_o a_o considerable_a party_n but_o i_o will_v consider_v your_o invocation_n here_o in_o the_o council_n of_o chalcedon_n the_o word_n of_o your_o invocation_n be_v these_o flavianus_n live_v after_o death_n let_v he_o pray_v for_o we_o i_o pray_v sir_n do_v but_o consider_v the_o occasion_n of_o the_o word_n there_o be_v two_o person_n that_o stand_v candidate_n for_o the_o bishopric_n of_o ephesus_n bassianius_fw-la and_o stephen_n who_o both_o contend_v for_o that_o bishopric_n bassianius_fw-la appear_v before_o that_o council_n and_o he_o have_v have_v this_o flavianus_n to_o communicate_v with_o he_o in_o his_o life-time_n and_o have_v be_v a_o great_a favourite_n with_o he_o he_o because_o of_o that_o intimacy_n engage_v the_o bishop_n of_o the_o obedience_n of_o constantinople_n who_o cry_v out_o in_o the_o council_n in_o the_o behalf_n of_o bassianius_fw-la flavianus_n the_o martyr_n live_v after_o death_n he_o shall_v pray_v for_o we_o which_o be_v no_o more_o than_o this_o he_o shall_v entreat_v you_o to_o do_v we_o this_o favour_n as_o to_o give_v the_o cause_n for_o bassianus_n and_o confirm_v he_o bishop_n of_o ephesus_n let_v he_o pray_v for_o we_o since_o he_o be_v a_o martyr_n for_o the_o faith_n let_v his_o martyrdom_n oblige_v you_o to_o appear_v for_o his_o friend_n these_o bishop_n do_v not_o say_v flavianus_n live_v after_o death_n he_o shall_v pray_v to_o god_n for_o we_o for_o you_o must_v understand_v these_o bishop_n have_v make_v the_o cause_n of_o bassianus_n their_o own_o but_o he_o shall_v pray_v or_o entreat_v this_o council_n for_o we_o this_o be_v a_o worthy_a proof_n for_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o pray_v to_o saint_n for_o do_v but_o consider_v if_o it_o be_v give_v for_o grant_v that_o the_o intention_n of_o those_o bishop_n be_v let_v flavianus_n pray_v to_o god_n for_o we_o what_o then_o do_v it_o say_v let_v we_o pray_v to_o flavianus_n here_o be_v not_o one_o word_n of_o that_o nor_o indeed_o of_o the_o other_o second_o you_o in_o the_o second_o place_n cite_v the_o council_n of_o gangrae_n can._n 20._o if_o any_o one_o through_o pride_n believe_v himself_o perfect_a accuse_v those_o meeting_n which_o be_v have_v at_o the_o place_n where_o holy_a martyr_n repose_v or_o in_o their_o church_n or_o believe_v that_o such_o oblation_n as_o be_v make_v there_o aught_o to_o be_v slight_v let_v they_o be_v accurse_v but_o i_o pray_v sir_n why_o do_v you_o put_v these_o word_n in_o that_o be_v need_v not_o the_o intercession_n of_o the_o saint_n that_o be_v the_o great_a folly_n that_o ever_o man_n can_v be_v guilty_a of_o what_o man_n of_o learning_n can_v ever_o give_v this_o explication_n of_o a_o canon_n which_o the_o thing_n will_v in_o no_o wise_a bear_n but_o sir_n i_o will_v forfeit_v all_o the_o skill_n i_o have_v if_o you_o can_v bring_v any_o of_o the_o doctor_n of_o sorbonne_n or_o any_o of_o the_o congregation_n de_fw-fr propaganda_fw-la fide_fw-la that_o will_v produce_v this_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o gangra_n to_o prove_v that_o pray_v to_o saint_n be_v enjoin_v by_o the_o catholic_n church_n nay_o i_o will_v appeal_v to_o any_o of_o the_o learned_a of_o your_o own_o society_n whether_o they_o in_o their_o conscience_n do_v believe_v that_o it_o look_v like_o a_o proof_n to_o justify_v that_o doctrine_n the_o canon_n be_v take_v as_o you_o have_v lay_v it_o down_o say_v no_o more_o that_o they_o be_v accurse_v who_o shall_v take_v down_o the_o monument_n of_o the_o martyr_n or_o shall_v believe_v that_o the_o oblation_n make_v in_o those_o holy_a place_n be_v to_o be_v slight_v or_o shall_v in_o any_o measure_n reflect_v on_o those_o that_o do_v frequent_v the_o meeting_n have_v and_o hold_v where_o the_o body_n of_o the_o martyr_n do_v repose_v here_o be_v not_o one_o word_n of_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n or_o of_o the_o saint_n make_v intercession_n for_o we_o three_o you_o produce_v the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n hold_v in_o the_o year_n 320_o as_o allow_v the_o worship_v of_o the_o true_a martyr_n of_o christ_n mention_v church_n build_v in_o their_o honour_n over_o their_o monument_n whether_o the_o christian_n resort_v i_o perceive_v you_o be_v fainthearted_a and_o dare_v not_o say_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o council_n of_o laodicea_n see_v the_o 35_o canon_n where_o it_o be_v determine_v by_o that_o council_n that_o christian_n ought_v not_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n and_o go_v and_o call_v upon_o angel_n and_o make_v meeting_n which_o be_v thing_n forbid_v if_o any_o man_n therefore_o be_v find_v give_v himself_o to_o this_o secret_a idolatry_n let_v he_o be_v accurse_v because_o he_o have_v forsake_v the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n the_o son_n of_o god_n and_o have_v apply_v himself_o to_o idolatry_n theodoret_n in_o his_o exposition_n upon_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o colossian_n do_v twice_o mention_v this_o canon_n and_o declare_v the_o sense_n of_o it_o upon_o col._n 3._o 17._o the_o apostle_n say_v he_o command_v we_o to_o adorn_v our_o word_n and_o deed_n with_o the_o commemoration_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n and_o to_o send_v up_o thanks_o give_v to_o god_n and_o the_o father_n by_o he_o and_o not_o by_o angel_n the_o synod_n of_o laodicea_n follow_v also_o this_o rule_n and_o desire_v to_o heal_v this_o old_a disease_n viz._n angel-worship_n make_v a_o law_n that_o they_o shall_v not_o pray_v unto_o angel_n nor_o forsake_v our_o lord_n jesus_n christ._n and_o on_o col._n 2._o he_o add_v that_o this_o vice_n continue_v long_o in_o phrygia_n and_o pisidia_n for_o which_o cause_n the_o synod_n assemble_v in_o laodicea_n a_o chief_a city_n in_o phrygia_n forbid_v they_o by_o a_o law_n to_o pray_v unto_o angel_n oecumenius_n have_v much_o the_o same_o word_n upon_o the_o same_o place_n and_o here_o i_o be_o sure_a you_o find_v nothing_o of_o pray_v to_o saint_n but_o rather_o forbid_v for_o if_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o pray_v to_o the_o angel_n and_o that_o be_v idolatry_n than_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o pray_v to_o the_o saint_n for_o without_o doubt_v the_o latter_a be_v as_o lawful_a as_o the_o former_a in_o the_o six_o and_o thirty_o six_o canon_n of_o that_o council_n you_o say_v that_o the_o worship_v of_o martyr_n be_v as_o it_o be_v allow_v or_o that_o i_o may_v not_o be_v charge_v for_o a_o misrepresenter_n you_o say_v that_o you_o produce_v that_o council_n as_o allow_v the_o worship_v the_o true_a martyr_n with_o what_o face_n can_v you_o assert_v that_o when_o those_o canon_n speak_v nothing_o of_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o true_a martyr_n the_o council_n make_v mention_v indeed_o of_o the_o resort_n of_o the_o christian_n to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o martyr_n where_o they_o do_v use_v to_o pray_v but_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o that_o council_n that_o intimate_v any_o thing_n of_o the_o lawfulness_n or_o the_o necessity_n of_o pray_v to_o saint_n but_o rather_o forbid_v it_o four_o the_o last_o council_n you_o cite_v be_v the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n hold_v you_o say_v in_o the_o year_n 368_o not_o only_o authorise_v christiansto_n meet_v in_o church_n dedicate_v to_o martyr_n and_o even_o wherever_o any_o monument_n of_o a_o martyr_n shall_v be_v but_o command_v that_o all_o altar_n shall_v be_v demolish_v if_o there_o be_v not_o a_o evident_a certainty_n of_o the_o relic_n over_o which_o they_o be_v erect_v what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o the_o purpose_n the_o council_n of_o carthage_n say_v you_o authorize_v christian_n to_o meet_v in_o church_n dedicate_v to_o the_o martyr_n ergo_fw-la prayer_n to_o saint_n be_v lawful_a that_o the_o council_n order_v the_o demolish_n of_o all_o altar_n if_o there_o be_v not_o a_o evident_a certainty_n of_o the_o relic_n over_o which_o they_o be_v erect_v ergo_fw-la the_o council_n do_v command_v pray_v to_o saint_n but_o if_o you_o will_v look_v into_o the_o three_o council_n of_o carthage_n you_o will_v find_v it_o against_o the_o pray_v to_o saint_n you_o be_v please_v to_o say_v that_o this_o be_v the_o most_o expressive_a method_n of_o authorise_a devotion_n to_o the_o bless_a saint_n the_o council_n authorize_v christian_n to_o meet_v in_o church_n dedicate_v to_o the_o martyr_n this_o be_v indeed_o a_o expressive_a method_n
dwell_v in_o the_o uttermost_a part_n of_o the_o sea_n even_o there_o shall_v thy_o hand_n lead_v i_o and_o thy_o right_a hand_n shall_v uphold_v i_o now_o sir_n if_o god_n be_v in_o heaven_n earth_n sea_n hell_n and_o fill_v all_o place_n with_o his_o presence_n this_o show_v he_o a_o omnipresent_v be_v now_o produce_v as_o much_o of_o the_o mother_n of_o jesus_n or_o of_o any_o of_o the_o saint_n and_o angel_n and_o we_o will_v join_v with_o you_o in_o make_v our_o address_n to_o they_o but_o this_o can_v be_v say_v of_o any_o saint_n or_o angel_n whatsoever_o therefore_o how_o can_v they_o hear_v how_o can_v they_o help_v and_o if_o they_o can_v neither_o hear_v nor_o help_v what_o reason_n have_v we_o to_o pray_v unto_o they_o 2._o as_o they_o be_v not_o omnipresent_v so_o they_o be_v not_o omniscient_a for_o suppose_v they_o can_v hear_v what_o man_n do_v or_o speak_v yet_o they_o can_v understand_v what_o they_o think_v if_o we_o can_v imagine_v that_o they_o can_v hear_v we_o 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do_v after_o their_o death_n their_o son_n may_v come_v to_o honour_n and_o they_o know_v it_o not_o and_o they_o be_v bring_v low_a and_o they_o perceive_v it_o not_o of_o they_o from_o all_o which_o you_o may_v easy_o conclude_v that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o man_n whether_o good_a or_o bad_a that_o can_v tell_v any_o thing_n of_o earthly_a transaction_n after_o they_o be_v depart_v this_o life_n this_o i_o may_v assert_v with_o the_o great_a assurance_n that_o the_o saint_n have_v no_o such_o knowledge_n as_o be_v necessary_a in_o this_o case_n they_o can_v neither_o know_v nor_o understand_v the_o prayer_n that_o man_n offer_v up_o to_o they_o nor_o which_o be_v also_o high_o necessary_a with_o what_o mind_n they_o offer_v their_o prayer_n whether_o in_o sincerity_n or_o in_o hypocrisy_n i_o pray_v call_v to_o mind_n what_o st._n augustine_n say_v mortui_fw-la nesciunt_fw-la etiam_fw-la sancti_fw-la quid_fw-la agant_fw-la vivi_n etiam_fw-la eorum_fw-la silij_fw-la this_o be_v the_o opinion_n of_o that_o great_a and_o learned_a doctor_n and_o bishop_n of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o it_o be_v so_o plain_a a_o truth_n that_o whatsoever_o shall_v be_v bring_v in_o to_o say_v in_o contradiction_n to_o it_o it_o will_v be_v scarce_o receive_v for_o a_o catholic_n verity_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god._n but_o sir_n how_o can_v we_o expect_v any_o satisfaction_n from_o you_o when_o your_o divine_n be_v to_o this_o day_n divide_v about_o that_o matter_n and_o can_v neither_o satisfy_v themselves_o nor_o one_o another_o how_o the_o glorify_a saint_n come_v to_o have_v knowledge_n of_o our_o supplication_n and_o prayer_n you_o know_v that_o many_o nice_a and_o curious_a question_n have_v be_v argue_v in_o our_o school_n among_o many_o learned_a man_n for_o at_o least_o six_o hundred_o year_n pro_n and_o con_n without_o any_o satisfactory_a determination_n as_o gratian_n gloss_n in_o 13._o qu._n de_fw-fr mortuis_fw-la and_o st._n augustine_n in_o his_o tract_n de_fw-fr cura_fw-la pro_fw-la mortuis_fw-la they_o have_v all_o leave_v the_o matter_n in_o doubt_n as_o whether_o the_o soul_n of_o those_o to_o who_o they_o pray_v be_v present_a or_o absent_a if_o they_o be_v present_a whether_o they_o be_v present_v actual_o or_o virtual_o if_o they_o be_v absent_a and_o have_v information_n from_o other_o then_o whether_o it_o be_v from_o the_o angel_n or_o from_o god_n himself_o and_o if_o it_o be_v from_o god_n then_o whether_o it_o be_v by_o particular_a revelation_n from_o he_o or_o by_o the_o beatifical_a vision_n of_o he_o thus_o sir_n you_o know_v it_o have_v be_v inquire_v into_o and_o debate_v among_o your_o own_o doctor_n one_o have_v determine_v one_o way_n and_o another_o have_v determine_v another_o way_n and_o there_o be_v not_o yet_o to_o this_o day_n any_o catholic_n determination_n make_v of_o any_o of_o those_o question_n it_o be_v true_a they_o all_o agree_v that_o they_o be_v make_v acquaint_v with_o the_o prayer_n or_o else_o in_o vain_a they_o will_v be_v invocate_v but_o how_o they_o come_v by_o this_o knowledge_n non_fw-la convenit_fw-la inter_fw-la omnes_fw-la say_v your_o pinello_n all_o be_v not_o agree_v about_o it_o some_o of_o your_o divine_n that_o have_v be_v very_o fanciful_a have_v be_v take_v with_o the_o notion_n of_o a_o looking-glass_n in_o the_o face_n of_o god_n wherein_o those_o bless_a spirit_n have_v a_o exact_a and_o full_a view_n of_o all_o thing_n past_a present_a and_o to_o come_v the_o notion_n be_v pleasant_a and_o it_o be_v pity_n you_o have_v not_o have_v the_o good_a fortune_n to_o beget_v a_o firm_a belief_n among_o those_o of_o your_o own_o church_n of_o this_o point_n for_o since_o this_o looking-glass_n be_v break_v in_o piece_n even_o in_o your_o own_o church_n there_o have_v be_v some_o of_o your_o own_o doctor_n who_o can_v see_v nothing_o in_o it_o but_o the_o folly_n and_o rashness_n of_o those_o who_o first_o invent_v it_o without_o any_o warrant_n from_o the_o word_n of_o god_n cajetan_n gabriel_n durandus_fw-la scotus_n occam_n and_o many_o other_o great_a name_n think_v themselves_o no_o whit_n oblige_v to_o this_o imaginary_a glass_n for_o they_o be_v then_o satisfy_v of_o the_o vanity_n of_o that_o imagination_n nor_o will_v the_o text_n in_o thy_o light_n we_o shall_v see_v light_a nor_o will_v that_o say_v qui_fw-la videt_fw-la videntem_fw-la omne_fw-la be_v videt_fw-la omne_fw-la he_o see_v all_o thing_n that_o see_v he_o who_o see_v all_o thing_n establish_v the_o belief_n of_o it_o for_o sir_n if_o it_o be_v so_o he_o that_o see_v god_n see_v whatsoever_o be_v in_o god_n and_o whatsoever_o god_n see_v then_o the_o angel_n that_o always_o behold_v his_o face_n and_o look_v up_o to_o this_o glass_n will_v have_v never_o stoop_v down_o to_o pry_v as_o they_o do_v into_o the_o mystery_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o need_v not_o be_v inform_v by_o the_o church_n about_o the_o manifold_a wisdom_n of_o god_n then_o will_v they_o not_o be_v to_o seek_v concern_v any_o future_a event_n no_o nor_o be_v ignorant_a of_o the_o day_n and_o hour_n of_o the_o last_o judgement_n i_o shall_v conclude_v this_o with_o the_o say_v of_o st._n augustine_n in_o his_o discourse_n de_fw-fr cura_fw-la pro_fw-la mortuis_fw-la if_o say_v that_o father_n so_o great_a and_o famous_a patriarch_n as_o abraham_n and_o jacob_n do_v not_o understand_v how_o the_o world_n go_v with_o their_o posterity_n how_o then_o can_v it_o be_v that_o the_o dead_a shall_v at_o all_o take_v notice_n of_o the_o live_n or_o intermeddle_v with_o assist_v they_o that_o be_v they_o neither_o know_v their_o want_n nor_o can_v they_o give_v they_o any_o assistance_n why_o then_o we_o shall_v make_v our_o prayer_n to_o they_o i_o hope_v sir_n you_o will_v give_v a_o reason_n for_o