Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	canon_n	council_n	nice_a	2,852	5	10.4936	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A30390	A modest and free conference betwixt a conformist and a non-conformist about the present distempers of Scotland now in seven dialogues / by a lover of peace.	Burnet, Gilbert, 1643-1715.	1669 (1669)	Wing B5834; ESTC R27816	70,730	152

than you will grant that all particulars must be determined since then as Moses determines the dayes of separation for a legal uncleannesse why doth not the Gospel determine the separation ●o● spiritual uncleannesse Nay further consider Moses instituted no Church-Government in the way we use it for that of the Tribe of Levi and house of Aaron was only Typical and to wait on the Temple and the Worship to be performed there Beside which they had Synagogues all the Land over and wherever they had Colonies in the World and in these they had their Rabbies their Scribes and their Rulers and their chief Ruler of their Synagogues which read their Law performed such Worship as was not tyed to the Temple at Ierusalem and they inflicted Discipline upon offenders and these might have been of any Tribe not only of that of Levi and yet our Saviour never challengeth this but went in to the rulers of their Synagogues the like you finde done by his Apostles and they never declame against it as an humane invention Whence it must follow that you must grant either what they did was founded on divine tradition which no Christian will grant or that a form of Government was devised by men and yet no unlawful thing And if the Jews had such liberty certainly the Christian Church is at least more free as to these externals And after all since Christ is the Head of the World as well as of the Church why did not he determine the order of the one as well as of the other N. The odds is very great for his Church is dearer to him than all the world C. Why then doth he not determine how his Church should be governed as to the civil matter since Justice is a part of his Law as well as devotion and the civil peace I hope you will grant is more necessary to the very being of the Church than is order in Discipline and so it was determined in the old Law but yet it is left at liberty in the new And though I should grant the Church as Church is dearer to Christ then as they are men a foolish and childish nicety Yet a King though he looks most to what is dearest to him he will have his authority acknowledged in all his dominions whence it will with the same parity of reason follow that since Christ is the King of the earth there should be no Offices in it but of his appointment N. I never loved this carnal reason it is an enemy to Religion Our Ministers bring us to the Bible for every thing they say but you come on with your reason C. Truly you have good cause to be against reason for it and you cannot both prevail If by carnal reason you mean a sober examining things by the dictates of Nature see that you condemn not that which is indeed the voice of God in us and therefor is to be received And if you make this contrary to Religion you bring as great a stain upon Religion as an Atheist could devise But if by reason you mean little pittiful nibling with some ill understood and worse applied distinctions out of Aristotle and Ramus as is very frequent among you that is justly called vain Philosophy And for Scripture do not think they build surest upon it who are ever quoting it fastest the Devil did that and so do all Sects And thus if you can rightly weigh things I have said enough to convince you that in matters of Government the Church is at liberty But if you will still go to Scripture I can positively say though in it nothing amounts to a demonstration There are fairer likelihoods for Bishops from that of the Angels of the Churches than ever you shall find in it for Presbytery but I will not say more of this Next let me tell you how soon this Government was in the Church N. I will not deny tares sprung very early in Gods Husbandry but that will never convince me To the Law and to the Testimony for from the beginning it was not so C. You do well to possess your self with a prejudice against these Churches but think soberly whether is it likelier that those who lived so nigh the sacred time understood the mind of the Apostles better then we do at the fagg end of an thousand and six hundred years As also whether is it liker that the Church then alwayes in the fire of persecution was purer then she is now God bless me from the pride of comparing my self with these worthies who were honoured to convert the world and to die for the truth N. But Bishops were not in the two first Centuries as our Ministers say C. They are grossly ignorant or disingenuous who say so all History being against them Ignatius Epistles are plain Language The Apostolical Canons a work of very venerable antiquity at least the first 50 of them though none of theirs perhaps all over shew the difference was then betwixt Bishops and Presbyters particularly the 40. Can. The Presbyters and Deacons shall finish nothing without the Bishop's sentence For he is intrusted with the people of God and shall be required to give account of their souls And the same thing was also enjoyn'd Syn. Azel Can. 19. And in Cyprian's time it is undenied that their power was then well regulate and settled For though that great Saint and Martyr tells lib. 3. Epist. 10. That he had decreed in the beginning of his Bishoprick to do nothing without the advice of his Presbyters yet Ep. 9. of that book to Rogatian a Bishop who had asked his advice concerning an affront he had received from a Deacon he sayes that by his Episcopal vigour and authority of his Chair he had power presently to punish him And towards the end of that Ep. he sayes these are the beginnings of Hereticks and the rise and designs of Shismaticks to please themselves and contemn their Bishop with insolent pride And it is clear Presbyters at that time even in the Vacancy of a See did not judge themselves sufficiently impowred for Ecclesiastical administration by what the Presbyters and Deacons of Rome write to Cypr. lib. 2. Ep. 7. saying That since a Bishop was not at that time chosen in place of the deceased Fabian there was none to moderate all things amongst them who might with authority and advice take account of matters Sure they thought little of Presbyters being equal in power to their Bishop who write so of a Church wherein the Episcopal power might seem devolved on them But I believe few of you know these Writings In the Council of Nice speaking of the power of Metropolitans which was an additional thing to that of Bishops over Presbyters The Canon sayes Let the ancient Customs be in force Now how this excressing power should have crept into the whole Church and no mention when it came in no temporal Princes nor universal Councils to introduce it and that at a time of

persecution when the Church was least to be suspected of pride no Secular consideration being to flatter this power nay on the contrary they alwayes bore the first brunt of the Persecution and how none opposed it if this was not introduced by Apostles or Apostolical men passeth my divination Neither can any thing be alledged against this but some few or disjoynted places of some Authors which at most prove that they judged not the origine of Bishops to be Divine But none except Aerius branded upon that account with Heresie both by Augustine and Epiphanius ●id ever speak against the difference was betwixt Bishops and Presbyters And for the few places they alledge should I reckon up all that from these same Authors may be brought for it I should grow too tedious Ierom is he for whom they triumph but upon very small ground for beside that he being but a Presbyter might have exalted his own dignity to the height and his fervent I had almost said fiery spirit drives him along in every thing to an excesse as may appear from not only his ingadgements with Iovin Vigilan and Ruffin but even with the incomparable St. Austine all can be drawen from his words is that the difference betwixt Bishop and Presbyter was only of degree and not of office and that the difference was not of Divine but Ecclesiastical authority but even he expresly confesseth that Presbyters did not ordain and that the origine of the exercising power was in the dayes of the Apostles to prevent Schisms for he sayes that from the dayes of St. Mark till Denis and Heraclas there were constantly Bishops in Alexandria and he compares the Bishop Presbyters and Deacons in the Church to Aaron the High-priest his sons the Priests and the Levites in the Temple and sayes that it was decreed through the whole World that one Presbyter should be set over the rest and to root out the seeds of difference the whole care was laid upon one for all this see Ier. ad Euag. and upon Titus and from this you may see how little shew of ground there is from him or any other Church-writter to reject the Episcopal authority N. But these Bishops were not such as ours are C. I confess they were better men than either Bishops or Presbyters alive are But he knows little Church-story who knows not that the Presbyters did nothing without them and that particularly Presbyters could never ordain without a Bishop N. Well then as it was good then so it may be ill now and there is our present case C. I say still it is a rational just and a most necessary thing that the Senior and most approven Church-men be peculiarly incharged as well with the trial of Intrants as with the inspection of the Clergy since no order of men needs so much to be regulated as that of Church-men And therefore unless they be all equal in gifts and parts they ought not to be equal in power and authority If the power of Bishops be at any time abused it is but that to which all humane things are lyable nor can Presbytery be freed of that but let the common maxime in such cases be applyed to this remove the abuse but retain the use DIALOGUE IV. N YOu have said I confess a great many things that I cannot well answer yet my conscience still tells me that Episcopacy is no good Government and I cannot act against my Conscience C. You must remember this is the Plea of all Hereticks who still pretend Conscience I confess there is nothing in the world wherein I desire to be more tender than in offering the least violence to Conscience there not being a wider step to Atheism than to do any thing against the conviction of Conscience But see it be not humour and wilfulness that you scorn to change your opinion or love to your party whom you dare not displease or vanity that you may be noticed or faction Or simple and blind following of your Leaders without clear convictions in your own mind all which for most part are the true reasons of schisms though Conscience be ever pretended And remember that God will not hold them guiltless that take his Name in vain so you shall not pass unpunished if you pretend Conscience and be not acted by it N. How then must I examine any perswasion to know if it be conscience or not C. If you find in your heart a serious desire to please God in all things together with a desire of obeying the Laws of the Kingdom and of complying with the Church in what you judge lawfull but out of grounds which appear to you founded upon the will of God you are led to a perswasion this is Conscience provided there be joined with it a modest distrust of your self with a charitable opinion of those that differ from you And such as are of this temper were their judgements never so bemisted I reverence and love Weigh the matter therefore in just scales and I doubt you shall see that at best you are led by a blind and implicite obedience for I will not uncharitably censure you as guilty of worse N. You are so proudly blown up with an opinion of your self that you think all who are not of your mind are ●lind and ignorant at best whether is not this arrogance in you C. Consider my grounds ere you give a judgement against me I say then private persons have nothing to do with matters of Government your business is to submit in these things and not to judge For whether think you God in the great day will call you to answer at his Tribunal if you were Episcopal or Presbyterian As also since the great design of the Gospel is to purify the heart these things which have no tendency to the purifying or blotting of the Soul are not matters of Conscience And these are two easie Rules whereby private persons might well examine their Consciences N. But if we think you are wrong can we joyn with you C. First I say you can have no rational ground to think us wrong in matters of Religion And since it is not a matter of Religion and Salvation you cannot without being Schismatical separate from us But further even every errour in Religion ought not to unty the bond of the unity of the Catholick Church unless the errour be of greater importance than the Communion of Saints is a consideration which you never seem to weigh How did the Apostle St. Paul become a Iew to the Iews though he tells us to do these things out of an opinion of necessity in them was to antiquat the crosse of Christ. And let all men judge whether to circumcise and purify in the Temple were not greater compliances in matters more justly to be scrupled than what we contend about Nay the free spirit of Christianity made St. Paul see well that these externals were of themselves nothing so that either doing or forbearing in them might