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A20714 Duplyes of the ministers & professors of Aberdene to second answeres of some reverend brethren, concerning the late covenant. Forbes, John, 1593-1648. 1638 (1638) STC 71; ESTC S100398 79,306 136

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Lawes there-anent The lyke wee may see in the 76 Canon of the fourth Councell of Carthage See Balsamon also vpon the 20 Canon of the Councell of Carthage where speaking of dying persons hee sayeth That the LORD'S Supper should bee carefullie administred vnto them and Baptisme if they bee not baptized Hence Bishop Jewell in his Dispute agaynst Hurdings PAG. 32. sayeth That certayne godlie persons both Men and Women in tyme of persecution or of sicknesse or of other necessitie receaved the Sacrament in their houses it is not denyed The Ancient Fathers also call this Sacrament viaticum or a provision for our journey So the Fathers in the fourth Councell of Carthage speake Canon 78. So Gaudentius in his second Treatise on Exodus So in Saynct Basill his Liturgie wee finde this PRAYER that the participation of these sacred things may bee the viaticum of eternall lyfe So Concil Vas 1. Can. 2. So Paulinus in vita Ambrosii Whence Causabon in his answere to the Epistle of Cardinall Perron● PAG. 49 sayeth The Church of England not onlie distributeth the mysticall bread to the faythfull in the publicke Congregation but also administrateth to dying persons this viaticum as the Fathers of the Councell of Nice and all Antiquitie call it 64. Learned Calvine was of this mynde Manie and weyghtie reasons sayeth hee Epist. 361. moue mee to thinke that the Communion should not bee denyed to sicke Persons ZEPPERVS in his first Booke of Ecclesiasticall policie and 12 Chapter hath these words of this matter One thing remayneth yet to bee resolved to wit concerning the Communion of sicke persons Albeit some thinke otherwyse yet it seemeth that the holie Supper may not nor ought not to bee denyed to them that seeke it For if it was appoynted for the confirming of our fayth and increase of our Communion with CHRIST if wee ought by the vse of it to testifie our fayth and studie of repentance why should they bee depryved of so great a good who fight with long d●seases or are in danger of their lyfe When doeth Satan labour more stronglie to shake and brangle our fayth than when wee are exercysed with bodilie diseases When doe our consciences tremble more and stand in neede of the most ample corroboration of fayth than when wee finde that death is knocking at the doore and that wee are called to compeare before the Tribunall of God HIERONYMVS ZANCHIVS is of the same mind Thus he wryteth in an Epistle of his to John Crato Physician to the Emperour I haue nothing to say of the question proponed by you but that I subscrybe to your judgement provyding this bee done when necessitie requyreth and it bee administred to them who through sicknesse cannot come foorth with others in publicke For since CHRIST denyeth this to none of his Disciples how can wee refuse it to sicke persons who desire it before they depart hence and that not out of anie Superstition but that their myndes may bee the more comforted and raysed vp MARTINE BVCER in the 22 Chapter of his fore mentioned censure considering that part of the LITVRG●E where-in the administrating of the Communion to sicke persons is set downe sayeth Thinges heere commanded are agreeable anough to holie Scripture for it avayleth not a little to the comforting of troubled Soules to receaue the Communion of the LORD Yea hee hath written a particular and most devote Treatise directing Pastors how to administer the Communion to sicke persons and yet wee trust yee will not call him a Papist since hee was so hatefull to Papists that after hee was dead they raysed vp his bones and burnt them PETER MARTYR wryting vpon the tenth Chapter of the first Epistle to the CORINTH speaking of the LORD'S Supper hath these wordes They say it must bee given to sicke persons I confesse sayeth hee but the mysterie may bee celebrated before the sicke persons It is to bee remarked also that often-tymes it falleth out that some persons are affixed to their beds by sicknesse for the space of fiue or sixe yea ten yeares or more And how can we denye the comfort of this holie Sacrament to those all that space especiallie when they earnestlie long for it 65. This doctrine and practise of ours tendeth not to the contempt of the Sacraments as yee would beare vpon it it is playne contrarie for by this practise wee show how much wee reverence the Commandement of GOD and how highlie wee esteeme of his ordinances which wee so earnestlie seeke after whereas on the other part the practise of others leadeth people to the contempt of the Sacraments because they are moved there-by to thinke that there is no such necessitie and efficacie in them as Scripture and the consent of Christians hath ascrybed there-vnto As for other abuses rehearsed by you as fruites of private Baptisme since you bring no proofe for what yee say in this wee oppone our just denyall to your bare and vnjust assertion 66. Lastlie yee advertise the Reader that yee thinke not the materiall Churches but the ordinarie meetinges necessarie to the lawfull administration of the Sacraments lest anie should conceaue that yee entertayne a Superstitious conceat of places Wee thinke yee might haue spared this advertisement for we finde that they who oppugne our doctrine and practise in this poynt are so farre from beeing in danger of the extremitie mentioned by you that on the contrarie they teach that the Church is a Place no more holie than anie other and that it may bee indifferentlie vsed to sacred or civill vses which in our judgment is not agreeable eyther to holie Scripture or to sound Antiquitie See Eusebius in his Ecclesiasticke Historie Lib. 10. Cap. 3. Chrysost homil 36. on the first Epistle to the CORINTHIANS S. Augustine in his first Booke of the citie of GOD Cap. 1. Codex Theodasianus Lib. 9. Titul 45. de his qui ad Ecclesias confugerunt Conc. Gangrens Can. 21. THE V. DVPLY THE indifferent Reader may perceaue by our former DVPLYE that your ANSWRE to our first exception taken from the obedience due to Authoritie and from our judgement concerning the administration of BAPTISME and the LORD'S Supper to dying persons in private places hath not given satisfaction 2. Wee asked of you in our fift DEMAND how wee can Subscrybe the Negatiue Confession as it is propounded by you without contradicting the Positiue Confession approved by Parliament holden Anno 1567 since the Positiue Confession CHAP. 21 declareth that Rites are changeable according to the exigencie of tyme and consequentlie that no perpetuall Law may or ought to bee made of them and the Negatiue Confession maketh a perpetuall Law concerning the externall Rites of the Church at least according to your judgement who vrge the Subscryving of this Covenant and Confession vpon vs Wee vrged farther in our Replye that the Late Covenant bindeth vs to the Olde Covenant made Anno 1581 for by your Late Covenant yee professe your selues bound
as wee declared in our former Replye to which yee haue not sufficientlie answered Neyther was it necessarie for removing of anie just Feares that his sacred Majestie should disallowe that Service-Booke as yee requyre but it was sufficient to discharge it in manner foresayde 3. Yee doe conclude your Answere vnto our thirde Replye with an vncouth and incredible Position whereof yee bring no proofe at all but onelie this bare Assertion Who-so-ever professe them-selues to bee perfectlie satisfied with the PROCLAMATION doe proclayme in the eares of all the Kingdome that they are better pleased with the Service-Booke and Canons than with the Religion as it hath beene professed in this Land since the Reformation This your Thesis is so evidentlie weake that we neede no more for the over-throwe there-of but to oppose there-vnto this our playne and vndenyable Antithesis Who professe them-selues to bee perfectlie satisfied with that PROCLAMATION where-by the Service-Booke is discharged the Religion professed in this Land since the Reformation is established doe proclayme in the eares of all the Kingdome that they are better pleased with the Religion professed in this Land since the Reformation than with the Service-Booke and Canons THE IV. DVPLY YEE alleadged a before and now agayne doe affirme that wee haue mistaken your Interpretation of the Olde Covenant as if it had beene given out Judiciallie by you and as if yee had intended to enforce it vpon others To free your selues of this imputation yee sayde in your first Answere that yee intended onlie To make knowne your owne meaning according to the mynde of our reformers and in charitie to recommend it to others Hence wee inferred in our REPLYE that yee ought not to obtrude your Interpretation vpon vs nor molest anie man for not receaving the same To this now yee say in your second Answere Altho you neyther vse threatnings nor obtrude your Interpretation vpon vs yet wee must pardon you if yee match vs not with the greatest part of this Kingdome in whose name by all fayre meanes yee recommend it to vs. Truelie Brethren wee are not offended with you for preferring the judgement of so manie to our judgement who are but few in number neyther neede yee to craue pardon of vs for this But concerning these fayre meanes and that force of reason whereby yee say yee recommend your Interpretation of the Olde Covenant to vs pardon vs if the experience wee haue both of your wrytings and proceedinges make vs to oppose this your assertion For in your wrytings wee expected indeede but haue not found that force of reason whereof yee speake and as for the proceedinges of those who haue subscrybed your Covenant wee of all men haue least reason to belieue that they vse no threatninges seeing wee heare daylie so much their threatnings agaynst our selues 2. Where-as for clearing of that which yee sayde before concerning the mynde of our Reformers yee affirme that The authoritatiue judgement of our Reformers is evident not onlie by the Confession of Fayth ratified in Parliament but also by the bookes of Discipline Acts of Generall Assemblies and by their owne writs First wee marvell how yee can say that the private writings of Master Knox and others who with him were instruments of that great worke of Reformation haue publicke authoritie to obliedge the Subjectes of this Kingdome The legislatiue and obligatorie power of the Church is onlie in Synods or conventions of Bishops and Presbyters and not in particular persons expressing their myndes apart Next this Church in the former age by abrogating the office of Superintendents established in the first booke of Discipline hath declared that the statutes ordinances contayned in those bookes are not of an authoritie perpetuallie obligatorie but may bee altered or abrogated by the Church according to the exigencie of tyme. The same lykewyse is manifest by the abrogation of summarie excommunication which this Church did abolish altho it was established in Generall Assemblies wherein Master Knox and other Reformers were present Wee neede not to insist much in this seeing so manie of you who are Subscribents mis-regarde the ordinances of our Reformers praefixed to the PSALME BOOKE concerning the office of Superintendentes or Bishopes Funerall Sermones and set formes of Prayer which they appoynted to bee publicklie read in the Church Hence the Reader may perceaue that ye haue no warrand for your Interpretation of the Olde Covenant from the authoritatiue and obligatorie judgement of the Reformers seeing yee can not ground it vpon the Confession of Fayth ratified in Parliament As for those other Meanes mentioned by vs to wit Scripture Antiquie and consent of the Reformed Churches that they truelie make for vs and agaynst you the vnpartiall Reader may perceaue by these our Disputes Whether or not Episcopacie and Pearth Articles bee abjured in the Late Covenant 3. As for the second Miss-taking mentioned by you in your Answere wee did showe in our Replye that in your Covenant Pearth Articles and Episcopacie are abjured And for proving of this wee asked of you what yee meaned by the recoverie and libertie of the Gospell as it was established and professed before the fore-sayde Novations and what is that period of tyme to which your wordes there haue reference that is Whether it bee that period of tyme when the Service-Booke and Booke of Canons were vrged vpon you or if it bee the tyme when Pearth Articles and Episcopacie were receaved in this Church But truelie your Answere to this is no-wayes satisfactorie nor hath so much as a showe of satisfaction For yee are afrayd to expresse that period of tyme lest yee bee forced to graunt that which wee before objected And yet your speach bewrayeth you For seeing yee answere onelie to that which wee sayde concerning the last of these two periods wee collect that by the recoverie of the libertie and puritie of the Gospell as it was established before the fore-sayd Novations yee meane the reducing of the Policie of this Church vnto that estate in which it was before Pearth Articles and Episcopacie were established And hence wee inferre as wee did before that in that part of your Covenant yee condemne and abjure Pearth Articles and Episcopacie as contrarie to the Puritie and Libertie of the GOSPELL 4. Yee seeme to answere that in that part of your Covenant yee condemne not PEARTH Articles and Episcopacie but those Abuses and Corruptions which haue accompanied them such as the Superstitious observing of dayes cessation from worke on those dayes Feasting Guysing and the grosse abuses which haue entered in the Sacrament vpon kneeling before the Elementes and that in respect of these Abuses wee who allow Pearth Articles and Episcopacie may sweare without prejudice of our cause to recover the Puritie and Libertie of the Gospell as it was established and professed before these Novations 5. But first let anie indifferent or vnpartiall man who knoweth the state of our CHVRCH judge whether or not it bee