much more owghte the bishops election which hath so manie bankes both off ignorance and euill conscience to put him from the waie of a good election be susteined by the iudgement off others And yt ys vntrwe that it is plaine that the church was heere shut forth For althowgh yt was nether in the ministers powre nor the peoples to chaunge this election yet the faste there mentioned beinge generall and the accoumpte off their embassage and successe therof beinge afterwarde made vnto the churche yt is not vnlike but in the approbation which that election coulde admit the church also had her parte That which is heere added owte off Beza vvhich the D. woulde haue so diligently noted is but to vvaste paper For vvee holde that it is moste conueniente the people shoulde haue the ministers and elders goe before and directe them in their elections But yt is moste directly againste the D. For therby appeareth that Beza is off that minde that althowgh the people be ignorant and vntractable yet they owght not to be cut of from ecclesiasticall electiōs but directed and called to some moderation Off that which remaineth in this diuision the canons called the Apostels that off Antioche Eusebius and others which speake off ordeining make nothing to this question which is off election consideringe that yt hath bene shewed not onely that ordinacion differeth from election but also that the councells from time to time haue confirmed the election by the churches So that iff there haue bene any elections made by the Bishopes alone they haue bene directly contrary to the tenure of the councelles In the councell off Nice althowgh his boldnes be greater then in the other canons hauing chaunged the wordes off the councell and in steede off ordinacion put election yet hath he no more warrant off the wordes off that canon then off the others And albeit the generall answer is more then sufficient to resiste suche naked assertions yet euen in this councell it is manifestly to beshewed that that canō is to be vnderstāded of ordinacion as it is distinguished from election For in the letters which the Synode off Constantinople wrote vnto the councell holden at Rome yt is thus written Touching the care off the gouernement off euery church yovv knovv that the oulde decree and appointement of the fathers off the Nicene councell hath preuailed from time to time that the inhabitants in euery prouince taking to them if they vvill and if yt be profitable those vvhich are next adioining should make the elections According to the tenure vvherof vnderstand yovv that the residue of the churches vvith vs are gouerned VVherupon vve haue in our generall councell set our bishopp off Constantinople Nectarius in the sight off the Emperour Theodosius and clergy off that citie the vvhole citie giuing theyr voices therunto And so goeth forward with the election off the bishop off Antioche and confirmacion off the bishop off Ierusalem Where yt appeareth manifestly not onely that the ordinacion gyuen by that canon to the bishop did not shut owt the election off the people but that yt implied necessarily an election by the people and clergy ioined with yt For the Synode saith that those elections vvhich vvere made by consent of the church vvere made according to the decree off the Nicene councell And if it should be as the D. pretendeth that the councell off Nice ment to gyue the whole interest off election vnto the bishops and to take yt from the church then coulde not that councell haue saied that they made the Nicene councell the squire off their elections when they admitted the suffrages off the people And that there be no doubt heroff I will set downe the wordes off the councell off Nice which are these Let the people chuse and the bishop approue and seale vp the election vvith them For Gratians distincions vvith his glosse first them selues gyue me defense enough against all the force wherwith they assaile this cause as when he saith that the other priestes vnder degree off a bishop may be ordeined off their ovvne bishop so that both the citisens and the rest off the priestes gyue their assent And the glosse vpon the second canon off that distinction saying the Bishop alone may gyue the degree vnto priestes addeth alone that is to say vvithovvt other bishopps Then I coulde oppose the authoritie off Illyricus which sheweth plainly that the wordes cited owt off the 63. distinction by the D. be a mere lie off Gratian. Howbeit I will not gyue ether Gratian or his glosse that honour as once to vouchesafe hym off any answer in the church of god And that thow maiest know good reader what maner of man he was of vvhom the D. plunged seeketh helpe vvith commendation also of his interpretation euen where it is condemned off protestantes writers off our time as heere thow seest and further shall appeare I will in a word aduertise the. That whether he vvere the brother off Lombard tharchepiller of Antichristes seat borne with a third brother of a strompet as they write vvhich couer the shame of his birth or Lombardes bastard conceined by a Nun which by reuelation accompanied her selfe vvith Lombard vvhether so euer I saie he vvere off thes this is certeine that in gatheringe the canons off the councelles he endeuored by mighte and maine to make them agree vvith the Patrone off the adulterous church off Rome Therfore in goynge aboute to reconcile thee gouernemente off the elder churches off Christe vvith that vpstarte Synagogue off Antechriste as yt vvere to make accorde between the owle and the rauen there is no kinde of false dealinge nether in addinge changinge dimynishinge false interpretinge nor other corruptions and that contrarie to the cleare lighte off wordes controrolmente off recordes extante to confute him wherin he hath not caried awaie the bel of vnshamfastnes from all that euer wrote before him or in his time Off thes corruptions there are almoste as many both vvitnesses and gath erers off our owne cotrey men and of others as haue at any time bene exercised in this fielde off confutation off the popishe religion As for his glossers as the Popes hyred seruantes such as flattered for a cruste off breade sayinge yea to his yea and nay to his nay they shall goe to gether with their maister And let euen this place of the D. befor a sey off the glosses impudencie in expounding Leos wordes For where Leo speakinge of electiō setteth forth the intereste of the churches with all thes wordes that the minister ovvghte to be chosen by the consente off the people by the voices off the people by their good vvilles and that none be ordeined vvhich they desyre not vvhich they vvishe not for vvhich they require not all thes wordes this good glosse bringeth me vnto this that the people shoulde onely gyue testimonie off his good behauiour vvhich is before confuted And if he saie here
I will God willing shew in place how the Nicene and Antiochen Metrapolitane haue beside the name almost nothing in commen with our Archbishops Here will be no confession yt was not enowghe for the Answ before to alledge thes forged canons withowt correction yea with commendation but euen now also detected rather then he will yeald to the trwth the commeÌ„ ennemy must haue the aduantage He will not forsooth greatly sticke in the defense of thes canons then he will not giue them quite ouer There is no smale controuersie he saith abowte the number of canons of this councell and a litle after there is great difference in writers for the number of the canons Let him name one Papistes excepted that euer moued controuersie abowte this number of 70 and 80. canons which he talketh off Athanasius in an Epistle that he as some thincke writeth c. what some are those Pighius Hosius Harding and their likes and they doo but say yt for that they did thincke so there being nether coulor nor shadow off trwth in that so kold a deuise yt is hardly to be thowght He saith after he hath doone nothing straunge in alledging thes canons I graunte for he hath those spoken of before to kepe him companie And in the next diui to make vp the matter he alledged not those canons as the vndowbted canons of the councell off Nice but as probable Is it in deed probable that there was such filthe in the church in the time of the Nicene councell as those canons you alledged make mencion of The reasons wherby he would bring some credit vnto thes canons are to light For where he reckeneth vp certeine thinges found in other writers not conteined in those canons he should haue knowen that there might be other thinges handled in that councell which vvere not browght into canons For example that which he reciteth owte off Ambrose towching the second mariage off the clerckes was talked on in the councell as I haue shewed before but yet there was no canon made off yt as may appeare by the stories before alledged For yt was browght in not as a thing wherof they would consult but alledged as a reason by Paphnutius to bar that which they would otherwise haue decreed As for the councell off Arles yt speaketh not off the councell off Nice but onely off a great Synode and to restreigne that to that councell is but a frierly note which the gatherer off the councels maketh to get some credite to those 70. canons which the Ans would thruste vppon vs There were thinges alledged in the councell which those nigh the times wherin yt was holden might come to the knowledge off by reporte off those present at the councell which make nothing for profe off a greater number off canons â–ª For it is not like that the Canons of the Nicene councell wheroff euery Bishop throwgh the world as the Bishop off Salisbury proueth had a copie were loste And if there were suche a nomber as he woulde haue vs belieue yet when the auncient writers which folowe so nere the councell or liued in that time could not come to the knowledge off them ys it like that this vpstarte not led vvith any desyre off searche off antiquitie but as appeareth with a deuelishe appetite of aduancing the seate off Antechriste should discouer suche a hoord of Canons But if this new recorder seeme vnto you to haue browghte the other canons to light then belike he hath those yow cite owt off the Councell off Arles off Ierome and Ambrose if not wherin I refer the reader vnto the Canons not hauing the booke then yt might haue bene argumente that those canons came not owt of any store howse off learned monumentes but owt of his one forge Yow saie yow agree with the bishop off Salisbury in his reply againste Harding touching the canon he alledgeth The trwth is that you haue done the beste yow can to ouerthrowt the whole defense off the bishop in that behalfe vvhich standeth in profe that those be counter faicte and that there were no other canons off the Nicene councell then are commonly extant And where yow say Hardinges canon muste needes be counterfaict becawse yt is contrary to the canons off that councell but that which you haue alledged and in those poinctes which you haue alledged them to be of the same substance the. 6. and 7. firste those newe canons being off one litter yf you giue credite to one yow can not take yt away altogether from the rest Secondly all those canons vvhich are not contrary to any thing determined in the councell off Nice haue by this answer gotten that credit which the autoritie and name of the Nicene councell can giue them So that a nomber off wicked thinges which the Councell off Nice spake not againste conteined vvithin thes canons are commenced by the Ans for decrees off the great Nicene Councell which were long after decreed in the Popes kitchin Thirdly where he saith the 25. 26. 27. differ from the 6. and 7. but in number and not in substance beside that he taketh still for graunted vvhich he should proue he imagineth all those learned fathers of that Councell desâ—â—â—ute of iudgement and commen sense which in setting downe one and the self same canon fowre times might worthely haue bene esteemed as bablyng dyuines as Batâ—us a Pocte And if the Councell had bene so grosly ouerseen yet how cometh yt to passe that that escaped the abridgers Which are said for shortnes sake to haue browghte the 80 Canons into 70. Laste of al to make this aÌ„swer good the reader must belieue 〈◊〉 onely that some of thes canoÌ„s which this forger hath added be true and some false but for as much as in the CanoÌ„s alledged the D. nowe seeth that all in them coÌ„teined can not befathered of the Nicene councell that in the same canon one peece is trwly and another falsly fathered As if we should not onely not take theÌ„ for bretherne which were begotten of one father but in one and the same child to esteme that the head and the foote is base and the armes and legges with the reste off the body begotten in lawfull matrimony Thus yt cometh to passe that as the deformitie off the visadge is not helped but made worse by peinting so the D. faulte which mighte haue had some excuse in that he was abused by this vaine defence is inexcusable Where vppon I will leaue to the reader which foloweth in the nexte diuisi whether vppon lighte credit vnto some dissembling papistes he receiued thes thinges with owte examination and vvhether in avoiding that he maketh him selfe giltie off a greater faulte Where haue I refused ambrose for an historicall witnes perteineth this to the story whether an Archbishop be profitable for the church or no whether he were or no perteineth but whether meet or vnmeet is vvithowt the boundes off story Yow had set downe that Ambrose alowed
as in other places hath seduced yow For this was taken owt off Pighius and obiected off Harding againste the bishop off Salisbury vnto whom alledging for the proofe therof the Epistles off Pope Gregorie the bishop answereth he could not refuse that vvhich vvas neuer offered him And the trwth is that not onely there is no such offer to be founde in that Councell but thinges plainly repugnant For yt saith expressely the bishop off Constantinople shall haue equall preuiledges vvith Rome And the same Councell gyueth the same honor throwghowt vnto the bishop off Constantinople which yt gaue the bishop off Rome sauing that becawse yt was the firste seate off the Empire yt is content that yt shall haue the firste place The same also may appeare by the second prouinciall Councell off Constantinople where this is repeated owt off the Calcedon Councell Now seing this councell made the Bishop of Constantinople equall in priuiledges and honor with the Bishop off Rome yt muste needes be a meere fable off Pope Gregory the Papistes and our D. that this Councell offred vnto the Bishop off Constantinople the title off vniuersall Bishop Thus with my vnskilfullnes I am constrained to make vp the gap the D. laieth open vnto the Papistes Where he saith Constantinople required nothing but according to the 6. canon off the Councell of Nice he greatly erreth For firste the priuiledges of the church of Antioche in that councel were cleane dashed and the whole state off the church being deuided into the rule off fowre that is the bishop off Rome Constantinople Alexandria and Ierusalem the churches were browght into myserable seruitude which may appeare by the Councell off Constantinople which decreeing this afterward autoriseth the canon off that matter by the councell off Calcedon Secondly wheras the Councell of Nice reserued to euery prouince her priuiledges and honor wherof this was parte as appearethe by other decrees that the bishops of euery prouince should choose their metrapolitane he off Constantinople toke a way thes priuileges from the greateste parte off the churches throw owght the whole worlde cōsidering that he had by this councell th appointing of the Metrapolitans off parte of Europe and of all Asia sauing a litle corner vvherin they had pinned vp the bishop off Ierusalem Thirdly yt is cleare that not onely at the time of the Nicene Councell he had no suche large domynion but his Iurisdiction long after was shut vp vvithin the bandes off Thracia onely withowt hauing any thing to doo ether in Pontus or Asia as appeareth clearly both by Socrates and by a former councell off Constantinople Thus may the Answ great skill for the shew wherof he hath thus ranged from the cawse easely appeare Now let yt be considered what is answered vnto the argument wherby vppon the wordes of the councell off Carthage the bishop of the fyrste seat should not be called the cheife off the Preistes or the high preiste or any such thing I concluded the title off the Archhishop forbidden He saith that was made agaynste the bishop off Rome and the meaning off that Councell was that no bishop should be called by the name off vniuersall bishop which is firste directly againste that he hath said before off the title off the vniuersall bishop offred in the Councell off Calcedon vnto the bishop of Rome For if Rome desired not that title yea refused it offered then there was no such cause off the decree off the African Councells to bridle it in the title off vniuersall bishop Secondly this exposition bringeth manifeste force to the councells wordes For if the name of an Archbishop be not sufficiently forbidden by thes wordes Prince off the preistes which in the councells language confounding preiste and bishop is all one with the name off an Archbishop yet it is forbidden by those wordes which folow no bishop shall be called by any such name And if that be not sufficient 10 stop the waie againste suche trifling cauils as thes yet the wordes that follow he shall onely be called the bishop of the firste seate are so plaine that he muste haue a very hard forhead that will goe abowte to owtface them Moreouer Gratian addeth as a parte off this canon but vniuersall bishop let not the bishop off Rome himselfe be called Wherby is manifest how vaine the D. shifte is For onles he had in the former wordes mente all other bishops there can be no place for thes no not the bishop off Rome and onles the councell had ment some other thing then vniuersall bishop by thes wordes cheife preiste ther is no place for thes vniuersall bishop For if wee should folow the D. exposition wee should make the councell speak after this sorte the bishop off Rome shall not be called vniuersall bishop but vniuersall bishop no not the bishop off Rome him selfe shal be called Which when yt ys absurd wee muste needee hold that this Councell prouided not onely againste the ambitiō of the bishop off Rome but off all other and not againste the puffe of the name of vniuersall bishop onely but againste the smokeie title off Archbishop Patriarch c. Furthermore in another councell which confirmeth the canons off this it appeareth plainly that that canon was made especially for the African churches for the prouinces off Numidia Mauritania and Tripolis For Aurelius and Musonius presidents off that Councell in their Epistle to the Bishop off those prouinces charge them that they had not kept those canons and shew how some couered them selues by ignorance off them And not onely the councell off Carthage holden somewhat more then 400. yeares after Christe forbiddeth thes loftie titles but the councell off Carthage wherat Cyprian was within 200. and od years after Christe is found off the same iudgement vvith this that no bishop should be called bishop of bishops So that to auoid this argument the Answ muste be compelled to say that the bishop of Rome claimed the title off vniuersall bishop within about 200. and 50. yeares after Christe which althowghe he dare much I thincke he dare not answer Againe he may vnderstande that he hath the bishop for partie For he alledging owt off Origine that the mynisters in the very time off persequution vvhileste he liued passed the owtrage off worldly Princes addeth that for that cawse this canon of the Councell of Carthage vvhich I haue set downe was made Gyuing plainly to vnderstand that it was to kill the yche off ambition in the whole order off ministerie not as he beareth vs in hand onely in respecte off one person And if there be any credit to be gyuen vnto Gregory there were nighe 600. yeares at the leaste run owt or euer the bishop there made claime vnto this title For he saith no bishop off Rome vntill his time had taken to him self that title off singularitie or vvould euer consent to be called by so prophane a name off vniuersall
Antioch is first vnfaithfully translated after vntruly gathered vpon For where the Councell saith that the Bishop praesident in the Metropolitan citie should haue care of the Prouince because all men vvhich haue busines vse to come from all places to the Metropolitane cytie he hath pag. 332. turned the wordes off the Councell vpside downe putting in steed off because all men c. wherfore all men c. making that the effect which it maketh the cause and the cause which it maketh theffect The Coūcels meaning is that forsomuche as men doo vsually for other busines resort to the Metropolitane cytie therfore the bishop of it was most fit to whom controuersies should be browgt He translateth also for parish dioces and so in steed that the councell supposeth the bishop to haue vnder his charge often times beside those in the towne he dwelleth in certein villages which resort vnto his churche as in Hitchin and diuers other places with vs he to be sure to put in enowghe supposeth by his translation that the bishops had a diocese and their places beside If by diocese he meane suche as ours I would gladly knowe what those places were which the bishops had beside their dioceses when as in the largeste spred of bishops they were notwithstanding tethered within the compas off other dioceses Yf by it he meane a parishe suche as euery minister with vs is assigned vnto why vseth he diocese to deceiue the reader especially when the Councells wordes pulled him to the worde off paris he Yf he will excuse this later faulte and laie yt vpon the translatour of the Councels which turneth Parish Dioces he confirmeth at vnawares that which I saide that at the first a diocese and parishe were often confounded Howbeit that the Councels wordes can not beare that significacion as we take Dioces is before declared Vpon thes wordes he gathereth the hishops are subiecte vnto the metropolitane and that the councell willeth them to be so which is very vntrue for there is no worde in that canon that proueth subiection muche lesse expresseth As for the honor which they should giue him I haue shewed what it is owte off the Councell off Nice the care for other churches in the Prouince cometh after to be considered For the bringing off matters vnto him which they coulde not ende at home yt appeareth by diuers places that they were not browght to him to determin but onely to make relation off vnto the prouinciall councell and that he coulde ende no matter but which aduise off other Bishops in the same Prouince In the Africane Coūcell yt was decreed that if a bishop striuing vvith an other about the territories entred into them vvithovvt hauing resolutiō of the other bishops althovvgh he had the peoples consent and Metropolitanes letres he should leese his cause In the Councell of Sardis abowt the same time with that off Antioch the bishops call their Metropolitane brother and fellovv bishop What Lordship and dominion can be gathered off thes thinges I know not And that this was the first institution off Metropolitanes which I haue alledged and that I haue herin not straied from the meaning of the Councels may appeare by the testimonies off others which haue spoken off this matter Caluin saith they vvere instituted for preseruatiō onely of the policie and what that was he sheweth by the bishop the same in his owne churche which the Metropolitane in the Prouince That yt was as the office off a President in a Councell to propound matters togather the voices c and to put that in execution vvhich vvas decreed by the rest denying flatly that he had any dominion ouer the Elders off the same churche and affirming that he him self vvas subiect to the companie of the elders The same therfore by his iudgement must be the state off the Metropolitane towardes other Bishops Bucer saith there vvere certe in bishops assigned to the cheif seates vvheroff they had a singular care vvhich did not be haue themselues as bishops ouer the bishops off those dioceses but if any of them faulted admonished him as one brother doth an other as one fellovv and companion in office doth an other And if the bishop admonished ether did not or could not amend the fault he made relation of the vvhole matter vnto the Synode After he sheweth that at the first the excellencie and preeminence off the bishop off Rome Constantinople and Alexandria c. vvas not off povver and iurisdiction but of knovvledge zeale care and help of others vvhich those cheif bishops did so yeald vnto the churches that they left the vvhole right off the bishops office equall vvith that they thē selues executed vnto euery bishop Bullinger after he had proued all dominion primacie and maioritie forbidden by our Sauiour Christ vnto the minister saith From the beginning the Apostels and ministers off the churches vvhich folovved the rule off the Apostels gouerned their churches equally vvithovvte that one vvas preferred before an other which he offereth to proue by manie testimonies and aboute the councell off Nice and a litle before Metropolitanes by mans ordinance not to be contemned vvere receiued vvhich should as it vvere be presidentes vnto the reste or rather serue all the reste in calling Synodes And yt vvas very vvarely prouided that he should not be called the primate leste any man shoulde thinke that he vvas superior vnto other in povver but in order onely Wherin almoste all the poinctes off the Archbishop and Metropolitane debated betweene the Answ and vs are conteined For firste he denieth that there was any preferment of one minister aboue an other in the Apostles times Secondly he saith the office off the Metropolitane came in a litle before the Councell off Nice Thirdly that it was not lawfull for that metropolitane to be called primate Fourthly that he had no power ouer the reste but serued onely for keping of order in meetinges All which thinges we affirme and the D. denieth and that not withowte a triumphe As for that he saith this institution of man is not to be dispised it appeareth that he ment not to commend it but onely to signifie that if yt had remained in that simplicitie it might haue bene the easlier borne especially considering they haue no such order off Metropolitanes with them The B. off Salisbury vnto Harding obiecting that the primates had autoritie ouer inferior bishops answereth they had it by agreemēt and coustome but nether by Christ nor by Peter nor Paul nor by any right off Gods vvord Wherby not onely ys confirmed that whiche I propounded off my not variyng from the godly writers but also falleth the D. dreame that they were instituted by the Apostles Yea further appeareth that their institution with autoritie ouer other was vnlawfull as that which hath no manner warrant owt off the word off God. Hauing answered the Councells I returne vnto Ieromes place as yt is
autoritie but also for that they had felowlike autoritie in the deciding off controuersies which rose in their seuerall churches accordinge vnto the lawes After where I quoted certeine places oute off the decrees and other Canons to proue the contention for thes offices the Ans acknowledgeth nothing there that carieth any sounde that waies Albeit the sound was cleare enowghe if he had not bene deafe of that eare For to what ende both in the Nycene Councell where the Metropolitanes are first hard of and when they were yet in the cradell and in many other holden more then 200. yeares after are there founde so many canons for the acknowledging off the autoritie off one Metropolitane in euery Prouince For the honor vvhich he shoulde haue the name he should be called by for the place where they should sytte at their meatinges for the boundes of their circuite doo not all thes declare that there were which were ennemies to that autoritie and that those which were lyfted vp into yt had continuall warre one with an other who should be the first who the greatest who of largeste spreade What meaneth yt also that they changed the seates so often so that the second or third at one Councel was fourth at an other and none at the third and contrariwise he that was none before was cheif afterward What also that the teritoiries appointed by one Councell were abbridged by an other enlarged againe by a third Ys there any man of so smale conceite which doth not hereby vnderstande that this lifting vp of one aboue the reste was a bone caste of the deuill to cause the ministers fall owt one with an other wherby place was made to heresies of all sortes to the vtter vndoing of the church aÌ„d quenching off the gospell And if the D. had bene off so narrowe vnderstanding that vppon so often and so diuers decrees in this behalfe he could not conceiue the contentions which this did breed yet expresse wordes off histories which testifie generally of the coÌ„tentions for those preeminences of Councells as it may appeare by the canons off the Aphrican councel which I haue alledged of the Tauritan which sheweth that the FreÌ„she bishops stroue which church should haue the MetropolitaÌ„ship and how the bishop of Arles and VienÌ„a fell owt for the same were redy to haue informed hiÌ„ of the trwth in this behalfe Yea in the discourse of the Councell of Nice wheron the cheife credit off the Metrapolitane dependeth he might haue redd how almost all the Bishops assembled there had quarels one with an other Which when they were not as doth appeare for diuersitie off iudgement in religion yt is easie to vnderstand that they were for the causes aboue rehersed And if he could be ignorante of all thes yet our stories at home which specifie the combates and going together by the â—ares for thes causes offred vnto him a plentifull proofe off all thes thinges Whherby yt appeareth that this Metropolitaneship was the very apple off contentioÌ„ in schambling for which the church was miserably haled in peaces Therfore forasmuche as the Apostle sheweth that the trwth is kepte by the bonde of vnitie and yt being moste manifeste that thes smokie titles off honor were cawse off contention yt followeth that so farr they are from that pretended off being bulwerckes againste heresies and schismes that they were the principall hookes that pulled them in The Papistes saie that there maie be a bishop of all the whole church because there may be of a prouince I that there can be nether off one nor other They would establishe the Pope by the Archbishop and I ouerthrowe the Archbishop by the Pope This is great ioining with the Papistes If I woulde take the aduantage off your owne wordes firste that there is the same reason of one ouer a diocese and ouer a Prouince and a gaine that forsomuch as one was ouer 12. therfore one maye be ouer a whole prouince I need not seeke for further defense as I haue there declared But againste this M. Caluin and M. Nowell be browght which saie there is not the same reason off one ouer the whole churche and ouer a prouince let yt be so For the one is a more prowder title then the other breaketh in further into the the prerogatiue of Christe then the other And if the church muste needes be accombred ether with Pope or Archbishop let vs graunte so muche to the archbishop that to avoide the Popes iron furnaies wee would be content to grinde in his myll and to a voide the scourge off the one passe by the whip off the other yet heroff foloweth not but that yt ys true I haue set downe For althowghe they are not in all pointes a like nor euery reason which concludeth the one concludeth the other yt hindreth not but ther are certeine reasons which conclude bothe a like That this pointe off keping peace in the church is one off those which requireth as well a Pope ouer all the Archbishops as an archbishop ouer all the bishops in a realme I will goe no further then to the causes your selfe haue assigned For where I shewe that vnitie maie be kepte vvithoute an Archbishop yow assigne two causes for which in keping vnitie yt is meete to haue an Archbishop the one to call the bishops together when there is variance the other to put them in minde of their dewties And if an Archbishop be necessarie for calling of a prouinciall councell when ther is cause off assemblie and when the bishops are deuided yt is necessarie there be also a Pope which maie call the generall Councell when ther is diuision betwene the Archbishops an other cause of generall Councell For wheÌ„ the churches of one Prouince be deuided from other and the archbishops are at variance as yow aske me so I aske yow who shall assemble them together who shall admonishe them off their dewties when they are assembled If you can finde a waie how this maie be doone withowt a Pope the waie is also founde wherby the church is disbourdened off the Archbishop Of the autorities yow alledge nether affirme that the gouernement of an Arbishop ouer a Prouince is conuenient onely they affirme that there is more likelihoode in the one then in the other and that there were archbishops in the churche when ther were no Popes yf one should conclude that becawse a man maie touche the moone with his haÌ„d therfore he maie touche the sonÌ„e and yt be said for answer that althowghe yt be possible to touche the moone yet it foloweth not so of the sonÌ„e who is there of so litle iudgemeÌ„t vvhich vvould gather of this answer that one maye touche the moone vvith his hand And as this proueth that one may ouerthrowe one impossible thing by an other withowt teaching ether off them possible so that I haue alledged 467. pag. perteining to this matter off one vvhich against him that vvould
the lord hath giuen The Prince with his power the minister with his conforte and instruction the priuate man with the wealthe God hath blessed him withe at the least with his praier the communion off sainctes and fellowfeeling in the members off one bodie requiring this Hereoff we haue example in Aurelius which saith he had care off all churches Bouins a Popishe friar or Monke I well remembre not whether tawght in this point in the same schole with the D. in esteming that care off churches implied rule least the bishop off Rome should be hurte by that speache expoundeth all churches all in Affricke Our D. h alledging this place because in taking care in his sence for rule with authoritie he should in trauailing with the Archbishop haue browght vs forth a Pope in steede off all churches putteth many churches so that he wil neuer want for if his places be to streite for his Archbishops measure he settethe them vpon the teinter hookes if to wide he laiethe them in water and shrinkethe them But what shoulde I stand in confuting this seing yt is so farr off that care prouethe rule and dominion that it is sene not onely in one equall ouer an other but euen in seruantes ouer their masters As for that that is said Chrysostomes care restreined here to certeine places can not be vnderstanded off suche a generall care as comprehendeth all churches I answer that the care off his owne churche being properly commended vnto him it is mete that as the churches next doo most affecte his bettering it commonly yf they be good making yt worse if they be nawght so in that generall care ouer the rest ther should be suche dispensation as to haue a greater care ouer those then ouer the rest as we see in wise Princes more carefull off the borderers then off those further remoued from them In which degre yt is not vnproperlie spoken that he had the care off suche churches rather then off all His foure notes owt off Theodoret depend vpon these wodes the same care so that yf yt fall owt that Chrysostome had not the same rule ouer Thracia Asia c. which he had ouer Constantinople then those wordes spoken off the gouernement he had in that citie are idle to proue the same in Thracia c. But first the D. crieth owt of corruption crafte and either ignorance or malice good wordes Maister D. I pray yow For ignorance yt is no greate matter I am content yow say that I borowed two greeke wordes off my neighbours But why corruption c did I not set downe wordes sufficient to confute your vntrew dealing which in stede of care put downe rule was I bownd to set downe more in greke then yow surmised in Englishe yea could I haue set downe the worde yow require with any sence vnto the reader vnles I had set downe as yow now the whole story and so haue giuen your cause greater coulour then your selfe knew of then I helpe yow diuerse times with argumentes which yow make much of but will yow binde me to do so alwaies I haue more coulour to crie out of yow which to proue Chrysostome gouernour of these places voluntarily cite Socrates trippinglie vvinding vp in thes wordes et caetera vvhich is your ruine and which manifestly confuteth the largenes yow suppose off the bishop off Consiantinoples metropolitaneship Therfore seing this bitternes must be vented yow at least should haue waited some better opportunitie now let vs see vvhether these wordes he had the same care ouer Thracia c that he had ouer the churche off Constantinople vvill intitle Chrisostome lawfully to as great authoritie ouer one as ouer the other For the discussing vvheroff I must by thy good leaue gentle reader fetche this matter somewhat higher The Councell off Nice bounding and butting the metropolitaneships decreed that the bishop of Constantinople vvhich it calleth the greate citie should be metropolitane ouer Thracia certeine other ouer Pontus others ouer Asia to the nombre off ten metropolitaneships This order was confirmed by other councels off Constantinople and Ephesus as they are obserued and continued vntill the councell off Calcedon vvhich moste confusedly and disorderedly throwghe extreme Ambition off the bishop off Constantinople drowned almoste all these ten in his one onlie sea Where also yt was ordeined by the same Councell of Nice that the Metropolitanes shoulde be off equall power and not one vnder an other this Councel made one Metropolitane ouer a nombre Where further it was ordeined by diuerse Councells as hath partely before and partely may appeare by c Theodoret that the Metropolitane off euerye Prouince shoulde be chosen by the bishops theroff this Councell maketh the bishop of Constantinople to haue the appointement off all metropolitaneships within the compas alledged by the D. Moreouer where the same Nicene Councell with sundrie others ordeined that the bishops of the Prouince at the least three should be at the ordinacion off euerie bishop this Councell giue the yt in the bishops off the Barbarians meaning as I suppose Scithians vnto him off Constantinople Now if the D. will make Chrysostome accessary vnto this famous robberie if giltie off all this confusion and disorder off the breache off so many Canons off the Nicene and other Councels and finally if he will make him a Pope he dothe him that iniurie which I would be lothe For where vnto me alledging that if he vvere Archbishop off all thes churches he vvas off moe then euer the Pope in his greatest pride he answereth that I am greatly deceiued for that Phocas the Emperour made all these churches and all other subiecte to the Pope and appointed him head off all I answere that he is greatly deceiued Considering that the Empire being deuided into the east and weast Empire more then 250. yeares before Phocas made Boniface the third Pope Phocas coulde not hauing his Empire for the most part in the easte where the churches were most ruined make all or halfe the churches subiecte vnto Boniface So that yt ys manifest that Chrysostome by his saying metropolitane off all Asia and a good parte off Europe must needes haue moe vnder him then Pope Boniface What the Pope claimed is nothing to that I set downe which spake precisely off that he was and not off that he claimed to be Therfore if he build vpon Chrysostomes supposed metropolitaneship he doth manifestly allow a larger circuite vnto a bishop then euer any Pope had Yf I would haue sought to haue discredited Chrysostome I might haue answered that yt was no meruaile thowghe he exercised suche dominion considering that bothe Socrates and Camerarius after him which commende diuerse vertues off his affirme him to haue bene a proud man But considering that him selfe opposeth the Emperours large dominion to a bishops charge in one cytie I chose that sence which I setdowne Neither are there any wordes either in Theodoret or the Centuries
For althowghe he saie so immediatly after he addethe Excepte peraduenture nevve elders vvere appoincted to the parishes for then the multitude off the place muste namely consente And after he saith Althovvghe in the elders alvvaies the consente off the cytisens vvas required Hytherto appeareth that all the elections were made by consente off the people if otherwise by their curteousie or as maister Caluin in an other place note the negligence Where the D. addeth And some times onelie the minister did firste choose and then offer those whome he had choosen to the magistrate who ratyfied the election if he liked it if not chose other c In deede here is an election withowte the consente off the people but what is that caetera belike some straunger which perteineth not to this matter Marke then againe good reader that if this were his owne doinge there was neuer suche a clypper off koine as he of the writinges off Godly men For yt followeth euen in the same sentence wherin the whole weighte off the cause dooth consiste Then the matter vvas brovvghte to the multitude vvhich althovvghe it vvere not bouÌ„de vnto those foreiudgemeÌ„ts yet therby vvas hable to make the les tumulte or if the people did beginne that vvas onelie to knovve vvhom they did moste desyre And vvhen the peoples voices vvere hearde then in the ende the clergie chose So that nether the clerkes coulde set in the ministerie vvhoÌ„ they listed nor it vvas not necessarie to obeie the folishe desires off the people Coulde there be anie plainer wordes then that the people was not bounde by that bothe the elders and the magistrate had doone but were yet at their choise if they liked not the chosen After Maister Caluin saithe that this manner off election by the ministers magistrates and people vvas in force in pope Gregories time and like to haue continued longe after Off yowr Canons heere alledged one onely excepted which maketh nothinge for yow the reste make directly againste yow For the canon attributed to the Apostels yt is there saide that if a bishop chosen vnto a churche doo not receiue yt he shall bee seperated from the communion vntill he take yt But yf it be throvvghe the naughtines off the people vvhich vvill not receiue him then he shall remaine bishop still and the clergie shall be seperated from the coÌ„munion because they tavvght their people no better to obeie Where appearethe that the bishoppe coulde not enter onles the people were willinge And where the canoÌ„ woulde haue him bishop still yt meaneth that he should reteine the name of a bishop because he was put by withowte his faulte Whiche thinge was grauÌ„ted to Miletius to vvhoÌ„ the Councel of Nice in the Synodall Epistle gaue the naked name of a bishop In the Ancyran Councell whiche yow alledge there is the same sauinge onely that yt is more directly againste yow For there the Councell willethe the bishopp appoincted vnto a churche yf it will not receiue him to retourne vnto his olde place of eldershipp where he was before The selfe same dothe the Canon Which yow alledge owte off the Councell of Antioche confirme So that thes three Canons can tel the bishop apoincted by other bishopps off the prouince no other remedy if he be refused off the people but to quiete him selfe and retourne to his oulde place off Eldershipp And that yow maie knowe howe contrarie alwaies maister Calu. is vnto the Ans obserue that off the same Councell off Antioche and no dowbte of the same Canon whiche the D. gathereth that the churche hathe nothinge to doo in the election Maister Caluin gathereth that the Councell ordeined that none shoulde be thruste vpon the people againste their will. The 12. Canon off the Councell of Laodicea in sayinge that a bishop ovvghte not to be appoincted to the gouermente off the churche beside the iudgement off the Metropolytan and other bishopps harde by gyuethe to vnderstande that as they had a stroke in that election so ther were other that had to doo beside them For otherwise yt woulde not haue spoken so koldly off yt For it saithe not that the Metrapolitaine and other Bishoppes shoulde onely appoincte a bishoppe no not so much as that they should appoint but onely that the Bishoppe shoulde not be appointed vvithout them The 13. Canon which prouideth that it shoulde not be permitted vnto the people to make election off the minister agrethe well with the 16. Canon off the Councell off Antioche Which as it vvoulde not haue a bishopp put vppon the churches otherwise frowarde without their consente as hathe bene shewed so vvill it not that those which the churches had chosen without the iudgemen off the bishoppes rounde abowte shoulde stande in force And if either Maister Caluin or Maister Beza haue any credite vvith yow yow haue their interpretatioÌ„ that the meaninge off the Councell was not to shutte owte the consente off the church but onely to prouide that the ministers and elders shoulde haue direction as beste hable to iudge off the fitnes of him that shoulde be chosen If they haue no credit with yow yet vvhether ye wâ—lâ— or no yt may manifestly be shewed that the canons meaning was not to shutte owte the people by other Councels off Nice off Constantinople off Toled off Cartage alleadged in the former booke Wheroff some goinge before and some comminge harde after with suche cleare testimonie off the peoples consente in the electioÌ„ decleare sufficiently that the Councell of Laodicea cannot be thowghte to haue had any suche meaninge as yow suppose but that there be no coÌ„trouersie I wil add to theÌ„ the testimony off suche wherby shall appeare not onelie what the iudgmente off those Councels are but what was bothe the customeÌ„ off the churches and the iudgement off other Councels from time to tyme in this behalfe In the Councell off Paris yt was thus decreed And because in certeine thinges the oulde custome is neglected and the decrees off the Canons are broken yt is our decree that accordinge to the olde custome the Canons off the decrees be obserued Let none be ordeined bishop againste the vvill off the cytisens but he vvhom the election off the people and off the clerkes vvith moste full consente hath required Nether by the commaundement off the prince nether by any other condition let hym be thruste in againste the vvill off the Metrapolitane and other the bishoppes of the same prouince In an other Councel Let yt not be lavvfull to get any bishopricke by revvardes or by other procurement but by the vvill off the kinge accordinge to the election off the clergie and off the people as it is conteined in the auncient canons that the bishop shoulde be ordeined by consente of the clergie and of the metrapolitaÌ„ or him that he vvill appoincte together vvith the bishops of the same prouince And after Besides this accordinge as the olde canons haue decreed no bishopp maie be
he hath off one vvhen that one is able to mainteine him and his familie honestly he answereth not yet was it necessary to be answered considering that therby the peinting of that Zeale vnder pretence whereoff they spred their nettes ouer so many churches is washed away Where he accuseth me whotly other of deceiuing or being deceiued in that the Councell off Nice is put withowt the addition off Second wherby yt might be seuered from the purer Councell off Nice I can not precisely say whether the leauing owt off Second were my fault or the fault off some other but that I meant to deceiue none there be which can witnes by that that in the second edition howsoeuer yt was omitted I gaue a note wherby that should be corrected His reasō wherwith he would proue that I ment to abuse the reader for that I set it before Damasus is to friuolous considering that that conterfeict Damasus mentioned in the first Tome off councels was not before this second Councell and yt is not vnwonted to put the iudgemēt off a councell before that off a particular person As for the corruption off the Councell I haue shewed how that maketh more against the D. then if the testimonie had been fetched from the first Councell And where he saith the Councell ment that one should not haue permitted vnto him moe great cyties then one yt is a shameles corruption off the minde off the Councell Considering that the drift theroff is that one should not haue more to liue one then is needfull to mainteine him self competently and therfore is cōtent as it were to wincke at those which are placed in poore churches not able to mainteine their Pastor albeit it inclineth rather to this that he should supply that which is wanting by some honest occupation That he addeth that Gratian him self doth so expound it all men vnderstand how vnsauourly yt is spoken As yf it were any meruaile that Gratian so expounded yt which is knowen to be an open corrupter off the Councels and manifestly in this point off hauing many benefices not onely in this councell but in that off Calcedon For where the Councell decreed that no man might be ordeined in tvvo cyties he doth impudently dally with it saying he may be notvvithstanding Archebishop of one cytie and bishop of an other prouided that he enioy the one as intituled to yt and the other by vvay off commendation Which is but a toy to mock an ape As if a man should say that yt were not lawfull to haue two wiues at ones but yet he might haue two weomen one vnder the title off a wife an other of a lem̄end This interpretation off the Councell is yet made worse by the D. for he addeth that a Pastor may not be ordeined in moe great cities then one as thoug the Councell would permit one to be ouer diuers small cyties The proofe browght by the Councell that euery one ovvght to tary in that vocation vvherin he is called is fit The reason against yt that the Apostle speaketh off the kinde off vocation and not off the place is fonde as thowgh yt were not a mannes calling to doo that he hath to doo in one certein place or as thowgh yf the soldier or embassadour commaunded to serue in one place serue in an other he offended not against this rule off the Apostle Where fault is found that I set downe councels in the plurall numbre alledging but one he dealeth very streightly which will not suffer me to speake as other doo but that there may be councels let him learne that the same was decreed in the councell off Toledo Wherunto I ioyne Maister Hopers iudgement which saith that no man off vvhat giftes soeuer may haue tvvo liuinges and therfore he is not so much a shepherd which hath many flockes as the D. saith as a theef seing not able to doo the office of a Pastor towardes them he pilleth them Towching Damasus that his pourpose was nothing les then to condemne idle bishops him selfe idlest off all shal be seen in an other place when yt shall appeare that he had no good meaning in thes wordes Notwithstanding the comparison which likeneth the Pastors that put ouer their charge vnto harlots that gyue their children to other to nourse that they may sooner gyue them selues to lust being apt I tooke as a good stone set in an euill place In the next diu the first part that it is better that one should haue diuers flockes then any be vntawght is answered in that yt is both better that one church be sufficiently fed then all insufficiently and it is alledged before and after how the want off preachers is in part becawse they are not sought after in part because they are driuē owt which were placed The other part is also answered All the Answer witnesses browght in to proue that Denis the Monkish pope fyrst deuided parishes and Dioceses are suspected Polidore whom he hath chosen to speake in the name off the rest doth as the D. hym selfe hath doon falsifie the wordes off the Monke Considering that he saith not that he appointed dioceses but parishes and churche yardes onely making no mention off dioceses Wherupon the Canonistes them selues say that boundes off bishoprickes were deuided long before Both which opinions shall appeare more at large to be false where I shall shewe God willing by what practises the bishoppes stretched owt their armes so far Afterward the man in going abowt to shew mine proclaimeth his owne ignorance For where he saith ther was no limitation off place in the Apostles tyme he is greatly deceyned For beside that there is almoste in euery story before the Apostles often mention off prouinces wherinto the gouernementes were deuided Cicero maketh mention off the diuision off prouinces into dioceses The Romans likewise before the Apostles had their Curias the same with the greeke word wherof our word parish is taken Also towching the very word parish by that Eusebius reciteth owt off Apolonius a Senator off Rome who liued about the yeare off our Lord 180. of Montanus vvhich could not be receiued not so much as of his ovvne parish vvhence he vvas yt appeareth that it was both in vse and in the same signification that we take yt long before Denis off whom the D. would father this diuision off Parishes was bishop So yt is manifest thes diuisions were before the Monkes tyme yea before the Apostles time And where he saith all men may know that limitation off Parishes and dioceses could not be made but off men in authoritie and theruppon concludeth that it could not be made by the Apostles yt is very true towching the precise limitacion but how is he so blinded that he can not also therby see that yt is an idle dreame that he so greatly stryueth for that Denis limited dioceses parishes c considering that the Denis he supposeth lyuing
after the councell had saied that the gospels with other scriptures should be red on Sabboth daies yt addeth vve must not read bookes vvhich are ovvt off the canon but the canonicall bookes off the old and novv testament alone And where he would cōfirme his interpretatiō by the 47. canon off the third councell off Carthage he is againe indebted vnto Harding which against Maister Iewell alledging the councell off Carthage to proue that it commaunded nothing should be red in Christes congregation but the Canonicall scriptures answereth with the same wordes the D. doth charging him with falsehood To whom as now also to the D. the bishop answereth that the meaning off the councell vvas that nothing els shoulde be red which he proueth by the councell off Hippo an abridgement off that off Carthage whene it is thus written The scriptures canonicall vvhich are to be red in the church and beside vvhich nothing may be red and so goeth forward alledging other testimonies affirming partly that nothing owght partly that nothing was wont to be red in the church beside holy scripture His answer to the councell off Colen is too childish The councels wordes in the sixt Canon are these vvhere in times past yt vvas ordeined off the most holy fathers that the holy scriptures alone shoulde be red in the church vve knovve not by vvhat carelesnes other not to be compared vvith them are come into their place Wherby appeareth that it condemneth not onely reading off sainctes liues wheroff it speaketh after but generally the breach of the councels decree that nothing should be red in the church but holy scripture Where he museth how we can say that reading off homilies were meanes to instle the bible into corners seing we will haue the reading of scriptures giue place to preaching I haue shewed how grosse and intollerable ignorance it is where I proued the excellency of preaching before simple reading off scriptures but especially before homilies The obiection which I made off praier is answered the answer is not ones moued as for that the necessity off chaunging the wordes off scripture in praier is as strong against sermons preaching as homilies reading I haue shewed how false it is when as that chaunge is autorised by precise commaundement off God which can not be shewed for reading homilies His reason that the Apocrypha may be red in the church becawse the councell off Carthage decreing onely the reading off canonicall scripture tooke them in that nomber adding that they be aswell red in the church as counted portions off the ould and new testament is absurd For seing it is vtterly vnlawfull for them to take them as portions off the ould and new testament yt followeth by his owne reason that it is vtterly vnlawfull for them to be openly red Where he saith there is nothing in them contrary to the rest off the scripture accounting them as a part althowgh the reason be nothing worth considering that so a booke gathered owt off Cato Theognes and Cebes tables c. may be red in the churche yet I answer that there be many places partly plainly contrary to the holy scripture partly friuolous and vnworthy to be red For Esoras Apocrypha I will refer the reader partly vnto Caluins censure of them the treatise I doo not precisely remember sauing that it is like to be in one of those against the Anabaptists or Libertines whose gospell those bookes be and partly to the manifest contradiction with the holy scripture which referring the genealogy off Esra vnto Eleazar to whom the priesthood belonged is by the Apocrypha referred vnto Ely and consequently vnto Ithamar to whom yt did not apperteine Off some off the other I will gyue a few examples Where the holy gost condemneth the fact off Simeon and Levy towardes the Sichemites Iudith in propounding it for example and to strenghthen her faith in the cutting off off Holofernus head alloweth yt If it be saied but the booke doth not allow it The scripture neuer propoundeth a faultie praier withowt condemning off it especially so long The sonne off Syrach affirming that the true Samuell prophecyed after his death leaueth the disquieting off the iust in the courteousie off coniurers which is vngodly doctrine and contrary to that peace the scripture saith they be in where Daniell sheweth that the fire bourned after the three young men were throwen into it to the commendation of the power of God which kept them from suffring in any part off it the counterfait Daniell affirming that the Angell smote the flame off the fire owt of the fournace and cawsed as it were a moist hissing winde in the middest c. partly falsifieth partly discrediteth Daniel as one that lefte owt such weightie thinges as he there supposeth I passe by how vnworthy yt is that he that hath ouereaten him selff is bidden to rise and goe vomit and after get him self to rest which are preceptes fitter for the kitchin then for the church Likewise the Iewish fable of the fire takē to be hidden and other such toies and of commending him that slue him self off demaunding pardon off the reader a language vnmeet for the holy gost Thes few off a nomber which come to minde shall suffise for a tast And be cause the D. tasteth nothing but autoritie off men he hath Ierome of this minde which writing to a woman biddeth her take heed off all the Apocrypha affirming that they are not theirs vvhose names they beare that there are many faulty thinges mingled and that it requireth vvisdome to seeke for gold in durt The hymne also off the three children he runneth throwgh where Erasmus iestingly saith it is merueill that Ierome putteth this song vpō the spit meaning condemneth it seing it is both red and soung in churches euery vvhere as if it vvere some speciall holy thing Wherby it is not vnlike but that he speaketh in another place off the reading off Apocrypha to edyfying off the people not to confirmation off the doctrine is spoken rather story wise in telling what was doon in that time thē what he allowed for if it be daungerous for one to read them priuately howe must it needes be more to read them openly onles it be with exposition which is yet more absurd Except paraduenture to reconcile Ierome one had rather interprete those wordes the church reades off the priuate reading of euery one off the church wheroff there are examples Now I must put the D. also in minde that nether in his first nor later booke he hath answered the Adm. reason towching priuate reading onely of the Apocrypha because their name vvhich signifieth secret or hid doth speake as much If he will say they are so called because the writers of thē are vnknowen he can not so escape cōsidering that this name doth put a difference betwene them and canonicall which it could not if that
away the infamy of this nether can it of that and if the auncieÌ„t traditioÌ„ of the church doo not autorise the one nether can auncieÌ„t coustome autorise the other The Ans before for one onely error touching rebaptising casteth away the vvhole councell of Carthage I will not deale so rowghly with the councell off Nice onely I desire that their autoritie be lifted vp no higher then yt hath state off the vvord off god Howbeit it must not be let goo in this canon off Nice vvhich is the ouerthrowe of all that the Ans hath said before that saying this vvas oulde coustome it confesseth therby that it vvas no ordinance of God vvheras if it came from S. Peter Paule c. they vvould haue said according to the institution off the Apostles it is also vvorthy to be obserued that the iurisdiction the Metrapolitanès had in their prouinces was before onely voluntary and vncoÌ„strained for that this was the firste time that any lawe passed of yt which noted off me in an other place is here well confirmed so that thes wordes the old coustome which the D. putteth so great affaince in if he make his accoÌ„pts well shall be found to haue bene a reed of Egypte vnto him wherupon he leaning is not staied but pricked To proue that the name off archbishop was not before the councell off Nice nor within three hundred yeares after the ascension off our Sauiour I shewe that there is no mention off him in Theophilus Ignatius Clemens Alexandrinus Iustine Martyr Ireneus Tertullian Origine Cyprian in the histories owt off which Eusebius gathereth his storie nor in Eusebius nor in a word in no alowed writer nether greeke nor latin within that space The D. asketh whether the councell off Nice Antioche Epiphanius c. be not as good all which are bothe later writers then those I alledged and after the 300. years before assigned So that to proue the antiquitie off the name off Archbishop and Metrapolitane he saith in effect yt is all one to alledge the stories and writers which came after as those which wente before and to proue that thes names were with in 300. yeares after Christ he alledgeth stories and other writers which testyfie thes titles to haue bene after 300. yeares which how absurde yt ys all men vnderstand And what likelihoode off trwth yt hath that thes names were within 300. yeares and od when as not one onely writer hauing so often occasion to speake off them doth once name them it may be considered partly of that the bishop writeth For as he asked Harding vvas there no man in the vvorld for the space off 600. yeares hable to expresse the name off vniuersall bishop So I aske the D. was there none in the world by the space off 300. yeares and od hable to expresse the metrapolitans name no man for the space almost of 400. yeares hable to expresse the archbishops name partly also I leaue yt to be considered off that I haue saied before Then he must vnderstand that as those stories and writers he alledgeth make nothing to proue that antiquitie which he supposeth so they being further from the Apostles times and nearer vnto the time off Antichrist are not off so good credit to proue the lawfullnes off that ether office or name as if they had had testimonie of the purer times moreouer off thes sixe autors which he maketh mention off two wroote after 400. yeares all the rest wrote from abowte 350. yeares vnto the prick off 400. And althowgh he hath browght owt so smale a number yet he must be faine to cut off halfe off them as those which make no mencion off the archbishop for nether Chrysostome nor Ierome no not Ambrose as shall appeare in their so great workes make any mencion off him Where I shewed that as the cedâ—â— off Liban can not be hydden amongeste the Box trees so the archbishop coulde not haue bene hydden in the ancient vvritinges amongest the other Mynisters and further that if he vvere he vvas contemned off them vvhich once vvoulde not defyle their pen by vvriting off him the Answ as thowghe thes perteined not to the matter vnder coulor of calling them frumpes passeth by them wheras a few such frumpes vvill breake the archbishops backe if they be not better looked vnto The Ans can neuer be holden in the railes off any lawfull forme off disputacion All men see that vvhatsoeuer he heapeth vp toucheth not my reply For he owght to improue the signification vvhich I haue set downe off the word Metrapolitan bishop which is to be nothing els then bishop of that cytie vvhich yt pleaseth the Emperour or Prince to make cheife and therfore that â—f the office swell no more then the name there is great differeÌ„ce betwene his and tharchbishops name This becawse he could not doo the signification being so cleare he starteth a syde and goeth abowte to proue that Metropolitane and Archbishop are taken for the same when the question is not here how they are taken but what the wordes signifie If he had shewed that the word metrapolitane bishop is as loftie in signification as the word archbishop then he had spoken to the pourpose Beside this in a matter that is in controuersie amongest writers he maketh his profes by bare autorities the controuersie being not onely betwene the Ciuiliâ—â—s and Canonistes but also betwene others off our tyme. Likewise it is to be obserued how cuill he hath peeced thes together bringing in M Caluin contrary vnto Maister Fox in that the one maketh a Metrapolitane and Archbishop to differ from a Patriarck the other maketh them all one M. Fox also to differ from himselfe which in the second place alledged out off him maketh difference betwene a metrapolitane and primate in the third maketh them all one Beside that also he is beside the forowgh off his cawse he gaineth not that vvhich he goeth abowght For let vs admit that a metrapolitane and Archbishop are taken for the same yet therof foloweth not that the name off an archbishop was in the church as soone as the name of Metrapolitane For althowgh a Prophet and a seer be all one astranger and an ennemie in war betokened one thing yet nether haue the wordes the same signification nether were they all at one time but came one after another For I would gladly know whether yt seeme vnto him that all thes titles Metrapolitane Archbishop Primat and Patriarch came in at a clap if there be no likehoode in this yt foloweth that his autors meaning is not that thes names were all at the councell off Nice but after they crepte into the church were attributed vnto one and the same office off metrapolitanship specified in that councell For the autoritie ouer other bishops which is gone abowte by this Nicene councell to be proued like to that of our archbishops that I make not vvith the Answ a confusion off all
which the Ans hathe alledged yf yt be weighed dothe sufficiently declare how farre Dionysius was front that antoritie euer the churches off Pentapolis which he imagineth For there ys shewed bow when he vnderstoode off certeine bishops there leauened with the heresie of Sabellius he sente messengers to them to call them backe from their heresie And when they wente yet forwarde more impudently what iurisdiction doothe he exercise againste them doothe he cause them to appeare before him send owt the sentence off excōmunication remoue them from their charges suspende them at the leaste vntill some triall off their amendement none off all thes but saith he vvas by this stubbernes off theirs compelled to vvrite againste them And yet if Dionysius might haue vsed this autoritie he woulde no dowbte and if he had Athanasius would by no meanes haue let it passe For if he could haue alledged that Dionysius had ether deposed suspended or excommunicated those Sabellian bishops yt had bene a singular meanes to haue stopped the mouthe off the Arrians which woulde haue borne men in hande that Dionysius fauored Sabellius heresie and consequently also theirs And towching the gouernement off his owne churche in Alexandria how farre yt was from that lordlie dominion the bishops and archbishop vse now maie appeare in that he calleth the elders off the churche off Alexandria his felovv elders After folowethe one Gregory which he auoucheth owte of Euseb 7. li. 24. to haue gouerned all the churches throwghe Pontus firste this word all is not founde there Secondly yt is vtterly vntrue that he saith he gouerned all the churches For Eusebius ioineth Athenodorus with him as his matche in all pointes So that if there were any archbishop there it was two headed contrary to the archbishops institution supposed of his patrons Thirdly yt appeareth in an other place where Eusebius speaketh of them againe that they were not bishops off all the churches of Pontus but had onely their parishes or churches in Pontus And the cause why Euseb made mention of those onely was as is there apparant because they were the moste famous amongeste the Bishopes in those partes and therfore by all likelihood chosen owte off the reste were sent vnto the Councell off Antioche gathered against the heresie of Sabellius Therforè he which is saide off the D. to haue bene ruler off all the churches off Pontus is founde to haue but one onely parishe in that circuite Peter Bishop off Alexandria foloweth which hauing regarde vnto the time wherin he died was onely aboute eight yeares before the Councell off Nice So that the Answ in saying he was 20. yeares before must be vnderstāded of the tyme he entred into his bishoprick Of him Epiphanius saithe he had the administracion of all the churches of Aegypte was archbishop What manner off archbishoprick and gouernement this was may be gathered by that that Epiphanius saithe Miletius vvas archbishop likevvise and had the gouernement together vvith him And not that onely but that Miletius occupied the seconde place in the archbishopricke vvith Peter Wherby Epiphanius gyueth to vnderstande that there was the third and fourth and consequently as many archbishops as there were bishops off name and estimacion amongest them which beside their owne procured the good off other churches rounde aboute This is further confirmed in that Epiphanius as rendring the cause why he calleth Miletius Archbishop and to haue the seconde place after Peter saithe Miletius seemed to excell the other bishops in Aegypte And where yt is saide that Miletius vvas vnder peter yt is to be vnderstanded that he was vnder him in honor and not subiecte vnto him as vnto a commaunder or as to one which had dominion ouer him as yt shall appeare by the Councell off Nice after and as the discourse of Epiphanius storie plainely shewethe For where as betwene Peter and his adherentes off the one parte and Meletius and his felowes off the other being shut in in prison for testimonie off the trwthe there fell a controuersie abowte receiuing those which had fallen in time off persequution Peter as Epiphanius reporteth desired and made supplication vnto Miletius and the rest saying let vs receiue them and appoint them a penance And when he coulde not gaine his cawse by praier and supplication he spred owte a vaile in the middaste off the prison and proclaimed by a deacon that as manie as vvere off his syde ▪ shoulde come vnto him and those vvhich vvere off Melitius parte shoulde goe to him Wherupon a fevv ioined them selfes vnto him the greater nomber remaining vvhith Melitius In which counte off Epiphanius there is nether any autoritie or dominion pretended by Peter ouer the reste nor any subiection acknowledged off the other but there is to be seene contrariwise all felowlike behauiour of one towardes an other And onles this be the propertie of an Archbishop to be autor off a horrible schisme and rente in the churche whereas yt ys vaunted off him that he compoundeth schismes made by other ther appeareth nothing in Peter in that whole action Archbishoplike If the Answ say the prison was no place where he could exercise his archiepiscopall autoritie the replie is easie that he might as well exercise yt there as owt off prison For yt being a time off persequution he coulde vse no where any other constreint then by the ecclesiasticall censures and those hauing as appeareth a company with him in prison he might as well vse there as being at libertie Hitherto I trust hath appeared that there hath bene not so much as any footing or kold sent ether off archbishop or metropolitan suche as ours yt followeth to examin that owt off the Nicene Councell which bringeth the first tydinges of the Metropolitanes Where we hauing confessed that there were Metropolitanes denied that they vvere like ours how truly resteth to be considered First that which the Answ can most pretend owt off this Councell for iurisdiction off Metropolitanes ouer Bishops off the same Prouince is the bishop off Alexandria ovvght to haue povver ouer the bishops in Egypt Lybia and Pentapolis Thes are the sounding wordes and which carie the greatest noyse off Metropolitane autoritie Yf therfore it fall owt that thes wordes to haue power bring more shew in the eie then weight in the balance then the Answ is greatly fallen from his hope which thincketh to reape of this peace dominion off the Metropolitan ouer other bishops The wordes which the D. turneth to haue gouernement signifie in that place nothing but to g haue cheif dignitie or honour Which is apparant for that the same thing being attributed vnto Rome Antioch and other metropolitane churches is vttered by the word honorable revvard the same that dignitie in the next canon where be speaketh off the bishop off Ierusalem as it is also noted off Villerius where he confirmeth this signification off the word preeminence owt off Plato This may be further vnderstanded
allegde Iacobs tvvo vviues to proue he might haue as many as he liste should ansvver that althovvgh he might haue tvvo yet yt folovveth not that he may haue as many as he liste proueth that one may ouerthrow one vnlawfull thing by an other withowt teaching ether off them lawfull which the D. calling yt a ieste answereth not And yet yt ys manifest that thes he his reasons both here and there which may in deede worthely be iested at albeit there is no worde in the example I browght that carieth the countenance off a ieste Vnto that I browght of greater necessitie off vnitie in the vvhole church then in ane Prouince there is nothing answered here he saith I am greatly deceiued considering that the Pope claimeth his temporalities by Constantine and his supremacie by Peter If he listed he might haue vnderstanded that diuers Papistes which handle that matter off supremacie alledge Constantines donacion for his temporalities onely I said not that the Pope maketh his claime onely by Constantine Althowgh yt may be shewed that Sozimus who yow say claimed the supremacie ouer all the church made his claime not by Peter nor by any autoritie off scripture but by the Councell off Nice confirmed by the Emperour Constantine Where he saith my supposition touching one Caesar ouer all the realmes which haue churches is but supposed I meruaile that he is ignorant that Constantine in the ende off his reigne had the Empire whole in his handes and that all the churches had rest vnder him that the Emperour off Rome is called lorde off all the earth Lord off all the vvorlde So that if he would haue appointed one bishop ouer all prouinces vnder him the bishop of his appointement should haue had more then double the iurisdiction that the Pope euer had when his kingdome was largeste the Pope him selfe making no further claime then ouer the churches which bare the name off Christe as Pighius him selfe confesseth Wherupon foloweth that his answer often alledged to put a difference betwene the archbishop and Pope the one taketh it to him selfe the other hath yt of the gifte of the Prince is not worthe a strawe Where I shew that the sufficientest mynister finding enovvghe to doo in one onely congregacion no man can be hable to vvelde the gouernement off all the churches in a Prouince he answereth that lacke off will or skill of some busie Pastors to dispatch controuersies which them selues be autors off letteth not but that bishops and archbish may be sufficient for their charges I make my argument off all and he answereth off some I of the moste fyt and sufficient pastors and he off vnfit If he haue any better answer wee will attend after yt if not then the archbishop is here againe taken by defaulte And when ether he must needes let his Archbishop fall to the ground or els denie that men off greatest giftes haue found enowgh to doe in the gouernement of one congregacion being both vnwilling to graunte the one and ashamed to denie the other yt is manifest he crept into this corner When I shew that as the patrons off the Archb. may alledge the supplie off Archdeacons Chauncelors c. in their absence so the popes aduocates may pretende his deputacion off Cardinalls c. he answereth that the office off bishop and Archbishop may be well excuted so farre as yt is conuenient for the estate of the church which ys that in question Where lykewise otherwhere I alledged to this pourpose that his bishop and Archbishop hauing their charge assigned by him the same vvith a commen pastor the gouernement onely excepted are therby bounde to pastorall preaching and ministring off sacramentes in all the parishes off their iurisdiction vvhich is impossible he staggereth to and fro saying the bishop hath to procure his diocese ys muche as in him lieth wheras he is charged for laying hand to more then he can gripe He addeth according to the lawes of the churche he is afraied to say off god that they preach where and when they see yt moste conuenient by that rule neuer also and no where yf in their sighte yt be conueniēt That yt foloweth not because the archbishop is bound to minister the word and Sacramentes therfore he muste doo yt in all the parishes of his prouince which followeth well For the bishop appointed by the holy ghoste is commaunded to feed the whole flocke committed vnto him euen with the same feading Saincte Paule fedd the Ephesians that is with preaching so plentifully that all might vnderstand the whole will off god Wheruppon followeth that his charge is not to feede where and when he seeth good but to feed and that to sufficiencie all the people off his charge as he that shall answer for the bloude off all which perish for wante of sufficient instructiō by his mouth And if there be as he saith the same deutie off the Archbishop towardes his charge as off the bishop towardes his the same foloweth in him for the charge off his Prouince being a lyke committed vnto him by the same reason he is bounde to preach in one parte he is bounde in all if not in all in none Now to returne where he saith preaching ordeining mynisters and suppressing herysies is not committed vnto the Archdeacon Chauncelor c. but such as by rules off the church are permitted them firste yt is his continuall faulte that he should proue by the lawe off God he proueth by the lawes of our church yea and by those which remained off the estate which was in poperie I mighte much better alledge the lawes off the reformed churches which haue abolished them And if he wil againste the reasons browghte oppose autoritie and binding me for my proofes within the compas off the worde off God vvander him selfe in the broade feilde off mens lawes in question yt is time to shuite vp the disputation which is mainteined by such grosse begginge Secondly how will he proue that he may sett ouer his charge vnto an other or that yt ys more lawfull to committ other thinges perteining vnto his office then those which he reserueth vnto him selfe Or if he may commit yt whether he may commit yt to tharchdeacon so farre vnder degree of the mynisterie off the Archbishop to whome those thinges belong or to Chauncelors c. which haue no entrance into the ministerie by any ecclesiasticall institution all which are shewed vnlawful in the booke of discipline lately set forth And why may not the Pope cōmmunicate his charge with his Cardinales as well as the archbishop with his Suffraganes c If he can shew no word why he may doo it but it be onely vpon constitution off the church that he casteth the ouerplus off his bourdē vpō the neck of his Chancelour c by the same reason the vniuersall bishop may discharge him self vpon his deputies Where he saith the vniuersall bishop can not ordeine
greatly in suspition off error It is sufficient that the prouer be off moo eies seinge better then one be trewe for the moste parte which is the nature off a prouerbe And in makinge off lawes the lawe giuer respecteth what is for the most parte expediēte and not that whiche maie be good some times For otherwise it might be saied the bishoppe shoulde not medle withe the election but his chapleine because yt may happen that he is more hable to medle in that matter then the bishoppe It is no smale owtrage yowe doe the churche off God to accounte off yt as off an ignorante multitude For onlesse yowe meane the churche when yowe saye then a thowsand other whiche be ignorant yowe speake beside the matter seing wee doe not permitte either examination or election off the ministers to euery multitude and blinde assemblie but vnto those onely whiche make an open and cleare profession off the trewthe Therefore yowre glorious and great speaches alwaies off the Bishoppes are affectioned and aspire somewhether For yf they preceded off the feare off God yt can not be but that feare of God and spirite of humilitie whiche taughte yowe to speake so of them woulde haue spoken muche more reuerently off the churche whose seruantes they owghte to be And when yow saie or that in suche matters be farr inferior to him yff yow meane ten thowsand off those whiche be off the churche the voice is straunge and needed some reasons to acquainte vs with yt especially seinge it touchethe as yowe thinke the cause But yowe wander still and the prouer be yowe confute not For let yt be that the bishope seeth more then 10000. off the churche whiche proportion beinge more vnequall then that betwene the sonne and the mone carieth withe yt a sente off the popishe insolencie admitte I saie that the bishopes eie be so good yet if the churche haue anie eie at all that beinge ioined with his will see better then his alone And that is the meaninge of the prouerbe not to compare one good eie with manie bad but to shewe that that whiche alone i◠hable to doe somewhat withe company and helpe is hable to doe it better And therfore oneles yowe will haue yowre bishoppe so full off sighte that he can leaue no thinge vnseene and to haue receiued the spirite withowt measure which is onely proper vnto our sauiour Christe yowe haue yet browghte nothinge to shewe why he owghte not to haue the assistaunce off others in the examination off the minister S. Paule refusethe not to learne of the churche off God in those thinges wherin he wente as farr beionde the bishope as any bishope can goe beionde the simplest of his diocese Apollos was instructed and tawghte of a powre handycraftes man and his wiffe In the counsell of Nice a simple man and one that knewe nothinge but Iesus Christe bothe ouerturned ād turned a Philosopher whome all the 318. Bishopes coulde not moue bothe S. Paule and Apollos and the 318. Bishopes were off Singuler knowledge in those thinges wherin they were aided and desired to be aided off those which were a great deale inferior vnto them What honie haue our bishoppes eaten off that they can see so clearly into the fitnes off a minister that the churche off God can not bothe see that whiche they see and that also whiche they haue ouerseene Belike yt is because our bishopes are more sharper of Sighte then euer any were and our churches more ignorante then any haue bene before And if the churches were tawghte of them wherein they are for the moste parte smalliest beholdinge vnto them as the plentifull knowledge of the churche shoulde haue bene a seale of their aboundance so what soeuer is saide off the ignorance argueth nowe the wante of their knowledge and in the ende retourneth to the weight of their condemnation Which yff it were well considered of him yt semeth that for the ialousie he hathe ouer the estate of a Lorde Bishope he woulde haue spoken more reuerently off the churche Wheras yowe say that offices off greatest charge are onely in the Princes choise Still yowe confute your shadowe for I speake off those elections wherin diuers haue interest sainge that yt seldome commeth to passe that vppon one mans reporte off his habilitie vvhich is to be chosen all the reste vvhich haue interest in that election vvill giue theyr voices What worde is here which giueth occasion to speake off the princes elections which are made by her selfe alone yowe haue therfore picked a quarel to speake off the welbestowing of offices onles yt shoulde be some profit vnto yowr selfe which yow imagined might come by sprinckling off thes faire wordes I see no ende of yt sure I am yt is no answere vnto that which yt pretendeth For my parte I will not contrary that yow speake of the good bestowing off the offices by the prince And I am well assured that some of them be bestowed of moste worthye men But yt is good for princes to haue as it were eares off horne againste suche sweete songes as these be and notwithstanding them to stire vpp them selues to greater warenes in the bestowing off their offices Therefore to let passe the offices off charge in the com̄on wealth for the Ecclesiasticall charges which her maiestie bestoweth althowghe they be off the greateste porte yet they will appeare not off the greatest charge vnlesse yow meane charge actiuely that is to saye great charge and vnprofitable burden vnto the churche not bearinge the churche but borne of yt euen almoste to the breakinge off her backe And those also as I thinke are not chosen off the prince alone but named onlie and chosen off the canons off that sea wheroff he is to be appointed bishoppe and confirmed off the Archbishoppe But lett yt be here obserued that Maister D. seemeth by affirmation off this thing although falsely without saying any thing against yt to gïue the election off the bishop onely vnto the Prince whiche if he maie doe in the bishopes whiche he taketh head ministers muche more maie he doe it in the other ecclesiasticall orders which he accounteth vnder the bishope here first I woulde knowe wether he will stande to this or no or whether hauing nothinge to answere he vsed this for a shifte Then whether the Bishopes will take in good parte this translatiō of the churche righte into the handes of the ciuil magistrate ād whether for there tēporalties as it wer for a messe of rise potage they will suffer the churches inheritaunce to be thus riotowsly alienated to be offered where yt is not asked to be geuen where it is not receiued And iff they be contente to parte from this iff need be that they maie kepe thother or be contente that maister D. forrewarde off his proctorshipp shoulde haue the disposing off it at his pleasure then I shall haue something more to saie in this behalfe The election off ministers committed
diocese will not holde owt the whether For although it might be therby gathered that there vvere seuerall Ceremonies in the elections off the dioceses yet it is plaine by his wordes that the elections vvere throvvgh ovvt made by the church vvhich is that vve desire Because yow busie yowr selfe so much to proue that this was not decreed by autoritie of the vvord of God althowgh yt be not that vvhich I tooke in hand to proue yet the wordes off that decree proue yt fully And albeyt he saied not according to the rules of the Apostles yet he saith that in effect For in saing that the church should vse that election in the name and authoritie off god what is yt els but that god hath so ordeined And in that he calleth yt the honor of the church which he giueth not him selfe but assenteth vnto he declareth yt incident to the church And what a reason is this Thēperour for bad that any man shoulde spoile the churches of their elections therfore it was in the Emperours powre to take awaie the election from the churches Which is in this diuision for feare of forgetting fowre times repeted ād vnworthy once to be cōfuted as I haue before declared And as that which the A. alledgeth off the rest of the decree maketh nothing to proue that the electiō off the church is in the Emperours powre so that which im̄ediatly foloweth vvhich he hydeth in c. doth manifestly proue that he helde yt for grounded of the vvord off God that the churches should haue the election off their mynisters For he addeth Because vve haue bene tavvght by the holie fathers that this thing that is to saie the taking awaie off the election from the church as the D. himselfe expoundeth yt is most greuous synne If therfore it be greuous synne to spoile the church of this honor and synne is defined the breach of the law off god yt followeth that the Emperour toke yt for a lawe of God that the church should chuse her minister And if I had bene bente vppon that poincte I could haue cited diuers testimonies which Illyricus vseth wherby this off the vnchangeable necessitie off the election by the church is confirmed As that Leo the firste affirmeth that no reason suffereth that he should be bishop vvhich is not chosen by the people alledged and pressed against the Papistes off Maister Caluin to the same pourpose Which place how violently and vnfaithfully yt is wrested off the D. in the end of this treatise shall be considered Also that he alledgeth off Leo the fourth and Celestine which confirmed the same ordinance vvith this testimonie it is not conuenient and yt is againste reason yt should be othervvise Likewise owt off the epistles off the Archbishop off Reines in Fraunce vvho diuers times vseth this saying he ovvght to be chosen of all vvhom all must gyue obedience vnto Last off all a whole treatise owt of the second booke of Cusanus vvhich proueth of diuers places out off the scripture Cyprian and canon Lawe that yt is no constitution off men but the lawe off God that the minister should be chosen off the church and that vvhosoeuer doth not enter into the church by that means entreth not in by the doore but is a these and a murtherer Thes I would haue browght at large if I had not contented my selfe with proofes owt of the scripture for the necessitie off yt which I here haue shortly set downe because I see the D. more afraied off the iudgemēt off the auncient church then of the scripture so that althowgh yt be a slender buckler to shild him selfe that the constitutions in that behalfe make no mention off any grownd owt off the word of god wheras he should rather haue shewed that they protested in their lawes off the indifferencie againste the necessitie off it yet euen that buckler also is by diuers Testymonies taken from him Yt is a poore falsifying off Platina vvhich is nothing but change of one worde for another without any gaine at al. For the Emperours cōmendacion serueth me as well to proue that the election of the church was alowed of and confirmed of the ciuill magistrate as if he had commaunded yt The second place off Platina proueth nothing les then that it was in the Emperours powre to change the election seinge that he nether made nor altered any forme off Election but onely off two Elections by the people mainteined that vvhich vvas lawfull Seinge also Platina supposeth no right off makinge the election in the Emperour but by the resignation off the Bishopp if that place proue any thing or thother after alledged owte off Bale and Barnes they proue that yt was in the Bishoppes hande to order yt at his pleasure Which howe vntrwe yt ys maie be considered off that vvhich hath bene before spoken againste the sole election off the Bishopp and off that vvhich is here confessed that the Bishopp of Rome began to vsurpe that which belonged not vnto hym For iff he encroched vppon the Emperours right no meruaile althowgh he brake in vppon the possession off the church Where he saith yt is to be noted that the libertie for the people to chuse was graunted by Charles the greate note also tha◠that note is worth nothing For where he would haue yt seeme that he was the firste that gaue that libertie he is confuted manifestly by the wordes off Charles a litle before alledged vvho speaketh of that election as of a thing accustomed of ould and doth not make any newe lawe therof but gyueth his assent vnto those which vvere made The vvordes yow ascribe to me that the electiō perteineth not to the Emperour I haue not I kepte the very wordes of Platina and nether added nor tooke awaie from them Where yow vvould seme to confirme owt of Platina in the life of Iohn the 13. by the worde creating that the Emperour chose Leo yt is but an abusing of the reader For Platina in the next chapter sauing one vvhere he speaketh of Leos election declareth that that creation vvas nothing els but a confirmacion of the election made by the people and clergie Therfore I saide the Emperours permitted the elections vnto the churches because by powre and violence they might haue taken them from them vvherfore yt followethe not that he mighte withowt breache off Gods lawe take them from the churche When yt is saide in the stories that the Emperous permitted vnto the churches the exercise off their religion maie yt therby be concluded that it was at their pleasure to haue without offence of God restrained them of that libertie verely I am ashamed to confute vvhich the D. is not ashamed to obiecte Yet the testimonies alledged make no mention of this word permission wherby this aduantage yf yt vvere anie should betaken Yow might easelie haue forgiuen me this fault where the iniurie which I doo is a gainst my selfe For where I might
when I added they were argumentes drawne off the nature off thinges wherunto the Ministers are likened and are for the moste part vsed by the holy gost himselfe I preuented that obiection wherunto the S. saithe nothing But if they proue nothing because they were similitudes then his answers to ouerthrowe them being bare similitudes and in thinges wherein they be compared moste vnlike are insufficient The rest off the second section off this diuision which is almoste a whole syde ys perteining to the question off Residence and off hauing twoo benefices Vnto thes argumentes which I vsed as hovve they should knovv his voice vvhen they can not heare yt acknovvledge him vvhen they can not knovv him follovve him vvhen they can not see him goe before or hovve he should heale their diseases vvhen he can not possibly knovve them he answereth not a worde That S. Paul in commaunding to appoint Elders throwghe euery citye ment euery companie off the faithfull rysing vnto a nombre cōuenient to meet in one assemblie yt is manifest by the place off Saint Luke where yt is saide that elders were ordeined thorowghout euery congregation Wherunto albeit the Ans could say nothing yet in pressing the word cytie he sheweth his good will. Vnto this yt may be added that the scripture vseth oftentimes for shortnes sake by a cytye to comprehend as well townes and villages as the great cities For where Saint Matthew hath citie or towne S. Luke hath citie onely and in diuerse places off the tenth of Saint Matth. 9 and 10. off Luke the precepts gyuen off the Apostels behauiour in the cities are necessarily vnderstanded off other places Likewise that both M. Beza and Erasmus reformed herein the ould translatour changing his translation off citie by citie as that which attained not fully to the meaninge off the Apostle into a more generall speach off tovvne by tovvne This shall yet better appeare in the 3. cha 8. Tract where it shal be shewed howe the institution off God is that a Bishop shoulde be not off a diocese such as ours or prouince but off a particular church Which treatise I would haue drawne hyther as vnto the proper place but that these places are so intangled with the question off the Dominion off the Bishop that I could not without too great trouble off the reader seuer yt Where he saithe that Saint Paul commaunding to appoint Ministers to certein places did not thereby forbid Titus to make Ministers hauing no certeine place he should vnderstand that S. Paul knewe he had to doo with one which had learned well that lesson off the lawe off God Thovv shalt onely doo that vvhich I cōmaund the. And it is shamefull iniurie doon to Titus once to thincke that he made kindes off Ministeries whereof he had no commission by the Apostle The rest is nothing but a manifest begging off that which is in question Where I alledged the councell off Calcedon that none shoulde be ordeined losely but vnto some speciall congregation the D. being at a bay and hauing no place to escape commeth vpon me vvith open mouth and will beare the reader in hand that I haue falsified the Councell and why forsooth becawse I haue left out these wordes Or in the place off Martyrs buriall or in monasterie I left them out in deed because we haue no vse off them Howbeit what syllable is there here which helpeth him or in all the canon which he hath set downe That the councell men◠not that a man must off necessity be ordeined to a certein place but that he should haue some stay off liuing is directly contrary to the councells wordes which expresseth the first plainly and off the later speaketh nor a word The reasons vsed haue not so much as any sense and are drawen first from the filthie puddle off Popish diuinity that there be eccesiasticall ministeries withowt cure and places not neding any pastorall charge wheras if those monasteries c. were lawfull assemblies euery ecclesiasticall ministery was as necessary for them as for other Afterward they are drawne from a shameles corruption off the councels wordes by sworne ennemies off all good order in the church which to ouerthrowe a plaine meaning haue interpreted vvithovvt hauing some title withowt hauing some possession or liuing And that I haue set downe the true meaning off this councell may easely appeare by an other which forbad this wandring from citie to citie For Theodoret reprehending Eusebius bishop off Nicomedia for leauing his owne church to be bishop in an other alledgeth a canon wherby yt was ordeined that none ether bishop or elder should goe frō citie to citie Wherby appeareth they had all certein places Yea the D. Denis shall giue testymony vnto vs in this behalf whose wordes be vve haue appoincted to euery elder his proper parish and church yeard and ordeine that euery one kepe his ovvne right so that none enter into the boundes off an other parish but euery one contēt him self vvith his ovven and so gouerne the church cōmitted vnto him that he may giue account c. But that this shameful facing off the D. may be manifest I will set downe Caluins iudgement off this canon wherby shall better appeare who hath vsed most faith herein he or I. Speaking against the Popish making off ministers he saith But it vvas ordeined in the councell off Calcedon that there should be no absolute ordeining off ministers that is to say onles there vvere a place assigned vvhere the ordeined might exercise his charge Here is the same sense and exposition off the councell which I haue followed as full in euery point now let vs heare owt off what schoole the D. exposition commeth He addeth a litle after But our Romish maisters vvhich thincke nothing to be cared for but the belly fyrst interprete a title a sufficient reuenue vvherby he may be able to liue vvhether left off his freindes or by some benefice Therfore ordeining a priest or Deacon if he able to liue they giue him the degree not regarding vvhere he should exercise his ministery But vvho vvill euer admit that the litle vvhich the councell requireth is a yerely reuenue to mainteine himselfe vvith And after shewing other fraudes wherby they haue deluded other councells which cōfirmed this he addeth is yt not alvvaies absurd to ordein an elder to vvhom there is no place appointed wherby appeareth not onely Calu. iudgement off this question but how impudent a corruption off the councell he estemeth this which the D. so greatly alloweth The councell off Vrbane owght to make the D. blush and the corruptions which he to so small pourpose chargeth his booke with cause it to speake so lowde that the very deafe eares owght to heare For this diuinity off the later popery which he mainteineth being condemned off the former hath therby a brand of corruptiō wherby it may be knowen Consydering that popery geue still from euill to
diligent reading where not daring as it semeth say planting he hath chaunged it wheroff the question was for tilling belike becawse he remembred he had saied before that yt is proper vnto the Apostles to plant Where againe his cawse receiueth an other wound For if planting be by preaching and not by reading then in this respect preaching is more effectuall then bare reading Then that he saith killing and watering may be applied to reading he should to mainteine his cause haue saied as well or as muche To that off the people perishing vvithovvt prophecy vvhich is not bare reading but expounding and applying off scriptures he answereth that the people muste needes decay in holines and knowledge where there be no preachers but why doth he say decay and not perish as Salomon speaketh where his cause falleth flat to the ground For if the people perish where be no preachers althowgh there be readers and cōtrariwise preaching withowt bare reading saueth engendreth faith and nourisheth yt yt is manifest that the word redd is not so effectuall as preached and that by bare reading ordinarily there is no saluation and therfore also no faith both which he before denied And if the people perish withowt preaching which haue already bene lightened by it how muche more except the Lord worcke extraordinarily must they perish that neuer had preaching Where he saith both preaching and bare reading be necessary in the church yf he meane publikely as yt is true in preaching so yt is vntrue in simple reading For although yt be very conuenient which is vsed in some churches where before preaching time the church assembled hath the scriptures redd in suche order that the whole Canon theroff is oftentimes in one yeare run thorough yet a nombre of churches which haue no such order of simple reading can not be in this point charged with breach of Gods commaundement which they might be if simple reading were necessary Considering especially that some off them beside their set sermons expounding euery day paraphrastically two chapters with the principall pointes theroff taken and applied vnto their auditors gaine that which the D. owt of Bucer presupposeth to come onely by simple reading that the scripture therby is made familiar vnto the people Where he saith they be moste profitable the wine off this error so fumeth into his head that it hath taken away the vse off his toung for two thinges to one and the same end can not but very vnproperly be saied most profitable For if preaching be moste profitable to worcke faith by then is not reading if reading thē is not preaching it is true that mē sometime speake so when the questiō is not of comparison betweene those thinges they speake off but otherwise it is altogether straunge Where he saith preaching is more apt for the ignorant and vnlearned and that he denieth not this the vntruth theroff is apparant For if preaching be more profitable to the vnlearned then reading and de at least as profitable to the learned then yt is false that he hath set downe with so great assurance that reading is as effectuall as preaching seing the effect we speake off is the profit off the hearers Yet as a man strawght off his wittes striketh him selfe he ouerthroweth this also in an other place for in asking why Iosia caused the lawe to be redd ▪ except it had as great force to perswade redd as preached he signifieth the contrary off that heere affirmed Considering that the greatest part was off the commen people and that grosse as those which newly came owt off filthy idolatry Further if preaching were as meet for the learned and meeter for the rude then his reason there which imagineth that Iosia would not otherwise haue caused the law to be redd onles there had bene as great fruict in reading as preaching falleth flat Considering that the D. confesseth that preaching is more effectuall to the people and I thincke dare not deny but it is as effectuall to the learned Therfore the reason why Iosias cawsed the law to be redd was not becawse reading was as effectuall as preaching but because being both redd and preached yt profiteth more then when yt is symply redd Where he saieth marry haue bene called by bare reading he saith yt againe and againe but withowt all proofe For where altogether owt off place his pourpose being to proue that reading edifieth more then preaching he faith God vsed reading at a meanes to call Augustine yt is vaine seing the question is whether he vsed that onely meanes for yt appeareth that August had greatly profited in godlines before that time wherin he heard the miraculous voice which sent him to reading Beside that the voice he telleth off going before his reading will not suffer that that reading onely may chalenge the whole meanes off conuersion Likewise that he affirmeth owt M. For off many browght to light off the gospell by reading onely he maketh not nor as I am perswaded could make yt appeare Although yt be confessed that that may be doone by the Lordes extraordinary worcking which feedeth sometime with quarles in the wildernes Yet yt is hard to shewe any time wherein there haue bene professors off the gospell and God hath not raised vp some ministers which haue ether openly or secretly as the time required preached the word considering that euen in those desolations of the church the Lord by his tvvo vvitnesses promiseth that the church shal not be destitute off true ministers Where confessing the vvord preached and red all one I shew notwithstanding that as the fyre stirred gyueth more heat so the vvord as yt vvere blovven by preaching flameth more in the hearers then vvhen it is redd he answereth that this is to ione with the Papistes in condemning the scriptures of obscurity but reason he can shew none and it is all one as if one should be charged to haue saide that the Sonne is darck for that he affirmeth yt lighter at noone daies then at the Sonne rising Then he muste vnderstand that we place not this difference of lightsomnes in the worde which is alwaies in it selfe most lightsom red and preached but partly in the ordinance off God before noted making that the speciall meanes partly in the darcknes of our vnderstanding which withowt the aide off preaching can not come to sufficient knowledge off yt Lastely he must learne that althowghe all thinges necessary to saluacion might by reading onely be vnderstanded yet yt followeth not that a man may by reading onely be saued For yt is one thinge to haue the scripture in his head another to haue it in his heart one thinge to vnderstād yt another to beleue yt which beleef being onely able to saue ys ordinarily onely ingendred by preaching Wherby also we haue a peece off remedy against another poison spit forthe in this diuis that to those which vnderstand the scriptures they are as whot and lightsome red as preached
an archbishop is a newe ministrie is declared Where he saith if no man appoint new offices but he which can gyue giftes to discharge them it should follow that no man might appoint offices if he vnderstand as he owght to doo ecclesiasticall offices it is that I mainteine if he leap ouer here as his coustome is to ciuill I haue shewed that the reason is not like Half this diuis is in the tenth off this chap. where yt hath answer My argument here a man may not ad to the ministeries because he may not take avvay is fyrst off thinges apparantly like as those vvhich are likewise forbidden likewise punished Then it hath this grownd that they being contrary fall into one subiect except one be naturally in it as heat in fire Which I am constreined to speake of because I haue to doo with such a trifler as would snatch at this exception although nothing to prurpose So that as he that hath autoritie to make lawes hath also to abrogate he which may absolue may condemne he that may binde may loose so he that hath power to ad hath also to deminish But marck vvhat the D. answereth The question is vvhether men may ad to the ministeries the meane and argument wherby I proue they can not because it is not lavvfull to deminish now when he answereth that men may ad doth he not gyue that for answer which is the question and take that for his proofe which is to be proued And as for that which followeth the added ministeries may be helpes to ministeries instituted off God yt is likewise in controuersie being as doubtfull as the rest And the Papistes may as well answer thus for the multiplying off their Sacramentes as the D. for encrease off the ministries But forsomuch as thes are yowr commen answers here is nothing new or to be wondred at Vnto the second proposition he saith men may take away offices off God which are temporall that is enduring for a time but not perpetuall Wherin he is greatly abused For nether any man nor all men in the world could haue put downe the temporall ministeries off Apostles Euangelistes c. which the Lord ordeined onles the Lord him self had withdrawen them and therfore they so long remained in the church vntill he by their death withowt raysing vp any seede vnto them by distribution of those giftes wherby those ministeries might be furnished declared that they had an end The Ans in defense of this forged Doctors is like vnto one which to defend him from the kolde couereth him self with a wet sacke For before his ignorance might haue in part excused him now by this maintenance off his answer he hath doubled his folie For first to make him self cleane he defileth as much as he can Maister Caluin and the Bishop off Salisburie both which he nether sheweth to haue vsed this Clement and if they doo yet their vse of him or such like is so farfroÌ„ lessening his fault that is maketh it more appeare For they vse them agaynst the Papistes which for the moste part attributing vnto them as great weight of autoritie as to the scriptures themselues are so set vp Which they doo also therby to driue from them that if they can not be browght from the confidence they haue in such becawse they are false at least they might be browght to mislike them becawse they make against them Likewise when they alledge them they gyue them such an eare marck that all may know them forged But the D. doth vse them against those which hunger for proofes at his handes owt off the worde off God in the matters debated which haue that estimacion that is meet should be had off such filth as that is which could not giue credit vnto this autoritie withowt renouncing the profession off the gospell which we haue in commen And in steed off giuing him his eare marck he putteth a night cap vppon him to hide it with for in steed off alledging off him owt off the epistles where he appeareth with his hornes and clawes plainly he maketh him come owt of Polidore as disguised owt off a straunge contrey and becawse Polidores wordes did not muffle him sufficiently in saying that this was conteined in a litle summarie off Christian religion he that Clement might goe the better vnknowen added in a booke intituled c. which I merueil with what face he citeth Polidore for as if there were no difference between his and Polidorcâ— wordes And he is not coÌ„tent onely to haue alledged the autority but as in a certein and vndoubted victorie he triumpheth and insulteth vpon his aduersarie sarie saying Peter was not Antichrist ergo the name off an Archbishop is not Antichristian In the second place he saith he vsed them not â—â— sure growndeâ— but as probable testimonies off antiquitie of the name Wherin his hand being with the Papistes is against not onely the manifest truth but all those godly writers which reiect those epistles as vpstartes and lately forged vnder a hedge For against them all the D. saith that it is very probable that they haue that antiquitie which they pretend Thirdly he compareth them vvith the Canons attributed vnto the Apostles wheroff albeit diuerse â—â—e falsely fathered yet those creeping in at sundrie times were â—â—â—wâ—â—standing some 100. yeares before this drosse came â—â—to the church Wheruppon also the corruptions in them although they â—aâ—ter the walles off the cytie off God yet they rase not the foundacions off it as this Clement doth nether are they alledged off me as he pretendeth but with atteint off the basenes off their birth And for my alledging off Higinus I refer me to the indgement off the reader what a cognisance I haue gyuen him there to be knowen by His last refuge is that yt is like Polidore ment some other booke not now extant For confutation off which vnshamefast speach to what end should I other alledge the latenes off the time wherin he wrote or vnfoundnes off his iudgmeÌ„t wherby he hauing not made half a turne from Poperie vnto the gospell might by all likelihood think that those were Clementes epistles The weakenes off his owne proofes doo betray him as those that make more against then for him For if he will make difference between a grosse epistle and a litle booke the precise distinction tendeth rather to proue a booke then an Epistle And for the lenght it is manifest considering that Tully calleth such long letters a volume and in two or three epistles drawen owt beyond the ordinary correcteth him self as breaking the bondes off an Epistle The same may be saied both off the matter handled and off the manner off handling Which being nether commen nor familiar if a man will speake as the Latines whom Polidore followeth vse they were fitter for a booke then an Epistle That Clement scarce knowing what difference there is between the nominatiue and accusatiue case yt was
but in respecte off the persons gouerned nor the persons them selues but in respecte of their contentions and alteracion of disposition Then it shall appeare after that the tymes off persequution suche as those were the fittest for that office yf that had bene conuenient This Archbishop saied to be the officer off order confoundeth all order and changeth all an Euangelist into a bishop a bishop into an Archbishop an archbishop into an Apostel an Apostle into an Archbishop which folies are before confuted If S. Iohn were Archbishop or did an Archbishops office in those places where he abode then the other Apostle in their circuites did the like and were likewise Archbishops ouer them and the bishop there so it foloweth that ether there were no Archbishops in the Apostles tymes or if there were any they had nothing to doo their offices being not yet fallen but in the Apostles handes And if the Ans will needes haue S. Iohns antoritie the pose to measure owt the Archbishops autoritie yt muste folow that forasmuch as he had the care and ouersighte of all churches in the world the Archbishop must haue the same For the next section lett the reader iudge whether I haue delte syncerely and whether in saying Anaclete and Anicete are but suspected although he ad not without iuste cawse he leaue to them some credit For the next also of the yeare wherin the Nicene councell was houlden being not to pourpose althowghe I could mainteine the account I folowed I will leaue the Ans in his earnest disputation whose practise is to handle trifles earnestly and earnest thinges triflingly The leape is as great as I haue saied and consequently as dauÌ„gerous to tharchbishops neck For yt falleth still forth that for the space off 300. yeares from the time off the Apostles there is no syllable in any one approued autor off any ether archbishop or Metrapolitane for as for the Canons attributed vnto the Apostles those onely excepted vvhich are to be found in their writinges being as is agreed amongest men off any iudgement gathered off diuers councels in sondry times that which is here alledged off the Ans was by all likelihood drawen owt off the councell off Antioch hauing almost the very vvordes theroff sauing as yt cometh to pas yt being somewhat later is somewhat vvorse The councell of Antioch a good while after that of Nice can not make the fall off tharchbishop les daungerous As for the fable off Archbishops in Englande in Euleutherius tyme yt is before confuted So that if a Metrapolitane were all one with an Archbishop yet he is destitute of the testimonie off the purest and best tymes Where the D. thincketh those wordes off the councell off Nice Let the auncient custome be kepte will saue his necke and his body from harme he is deceiued For this word auncient being in nomber off those which haue relation and depend of others signifieth a greater or smaller time according to the thinges vvherwith it is coÌ„pared or hath relatioÌ„ vnto so that that maie be and often is called auncient which is but of very fewe yeares and vvhich other sometime can not be so called withowt a greater nomber The bishops therfore comparing that decree with other made at that tyme and not before called that an auncient custome And yt can be no straunge kinde off speach for the ministers being assembled together to speake off a matter continued a score off prouinciall Synodes and houlden in the space off 10. yeares after this sorte In suche and such thinges vvee vvill kepe our old coustome And that yt could not be long before the councell off Nice beside no testimony to the contrary â–ª Aeneas Syâ—uius gyueth this for vs before the Nicene councell euery bishop lyued vnto him self and smale regard vvas had to the bishops of home But admit yt had bene so before the councell off Nice 20. yea 30. yeares yet by yowr owne counte there is no mention off him all that time which I haue affirmed which is 300. yeares after our Sauiour Christes ascension Now therfore that the auncientie off the Metrapolitane appeareth not by this councell to be other then I alledged Let vs see what credite yt owghte to haue to proue that this decree off theirs was good For therunto the D. regardeth when he saith the notable and famous councell off Nice muste be off all wise and learned men nexte vnto the scriptures reuerenced c. It is sure that hauing regard to the decision off the different touching the perfect vnitie off substance of our Sauiour Christ with God the Father it giuing sentence vppon the vnfallible word off God is worthy to be reuerenced But if the D. will haue their soundnes in that poincte autorise the rest and that our reuerence to yt should close vp our mouthes from demaunding from whence the other canons come what ground they haue yt is that which we can by no meanes consent vnto And that yt may appeare how iustly we call this canon off the councell vnto the towch stone of the word off God let it be considered what is ordeined off them in the 12. and 23. Canons after Ruffin where they prescribe seuen yeares vnto one fallen in to Idolatrie all which tyme althowgh very repentante they forbid him the supper off the lord where also yt kepeth owte one which coming from the warr retourneth thether againe by the space off thirtene years c. which seueritie to let pas the rest as yt is againste the rule of S. Paule so yt could not but put a halter in the deuiles hand to snare a noÌ„ber of soules with all what corruption there was further at that time ether by ignorance or ambition may appeare by that if one Paphenutius had not beene they had all concluded against the honorable societie off bishops elders and Deacons vvith their lawfull wiues Yf the Ans say thes errors were but the errors off those bishops onely but the canon off a Metrapolitane hath beside their allowance the approbation off the former times also so that althowgh their single autoritie be not hable to waie yt downe yet helped vvith the auncient coustome before yt will carie yt away I answer that in the same councell appeareth that to those chosen vnto the ministrie vnmaried yt was not lawfull to take any wife afterwardes onely being maried before entrance into the mynistrie it was lawfull for them to vse the benefite of that mariadge And Paphenutius sheweth that not onely this was before that councell but was an auncieÌ„t tradition of the churche vvhich both him selfe and the reste off the councell rested in what soeuer credit therfore in any respecte cometh vnto the Metrapolitane by this sixt canoÌ„ the same in euery point cometh to this so great a corruptioÌ„ that nether single ministers might mary nor those which entred maried might after death of their wiues mary againe Yf the fame of the councell can not wipe
M. Knox which had put them to flight should take heede that he suffred them not to come in againe althovvgh it pretend to haue great force to kepe vnitie vnder vvhich pretence it deceiued the auncient Fathers Thus yt appeareth what Bezaes iudgement is both off thes names and offices Now I retourne to the places alledged off the D. Where he is saied to affirme that archbishops c. are called in scriptures by one commen name off Pastors and Bishops his wordes can not be referred vnto the name or office of Archbishop For considering there is no mention off them in scripture the scripture can not call them Pastors and Bishops especially seing he sheweth how they are Pastors in respect off administration off the word and Sacramentes not in that they rule ouer Bishops in which regard onely it is confessed that they were called Archbishops c. Where he affirmeth him to call the names holy the names which he calleth holy are the names of Apostles and bishops not of archbishops c. which may appeare by that following and therfore they glory off the succession off the Apostles and true Bishops For seing they conuey them selues vnto the succession off the Apostles and Bishops vnder the cloke off names what names are so fiâ— to disguise them that they might be so taken as those And where he saith he reckeneth vp archdeacons Canons Seniors Deanes subdeacons clearkes amongest degrees taken owt off the word off God and from the Primitiue church fyrst he hath not they were taken but they seeme to haue taken c. Then if the auncient church be taken for that almost 400. yeares after Christ as yt may be compared with that â—00 yeares after Christ we deny not but thes names were in the Primitiue church Moreouer the Ans to help the Dean hath falsified Beza translating for Deacon Deane which haue no more kindred then a mat and a mattock Last off all if he could haue brought this testimonie owt off Beza for allowance off names yet he should haue bene afraied to haue vsed this aduantage seing that place ministreth moe weapons to beate then to defend him For there he condemneth flatly as a rable and filthy assemble of monsters vnheard off in the auncient church the degrees of Suffraganes Officials Proctors Vicares Chapleines c none off which I suppose the D. may well spare in vpholding that estate which he phansieth so good I appele not vnto the Apostles times onely but vnto the doctrine and order established where we are sure there is light withowt darcknes truth withowt daunger off errors And if we leauing thapostles should take a patron off gouernement off men which may be deceiued yt owght rather to be drawen from the Apostles times then from those 500. yeares after those being so much purer as they were neerer the incomparable brightnes of the gospell which shyned then and further from those mistie times off Antichrist wherwith after the whole earth was ouercast For if this man off sin being in the eg in thappostles time receyned by litle and litle continuall increase vntill he came to his full growght I see not why there was not as great oddes betwene the purenes off the church in thapostles time and that 500. yeares after as betwene this and that 1000. yeare after the Apostels And if there were no remedie against the corruptions off those purest times but in taking heed to the light which the Lord had set vp in the doctrine and gouernement off thapostles how muche more for remedie against such palpable darcknes as couered the face off the earth in our times owght we to haue resorted vnto that perfect and vnmedled light not vnto them whose both heauens vvere darker and sight dimmer and which beside greater night within them selues by reason off their infirmitie had lesse day withowt by reason of the glowmie times To that alledged and confirmed that thes dignities off Metrapolitanes archbishops c. were as the handes that pulled the feet vvhich brovvght the shoulders that lifted vp the Pope into his seat vvhich othervvise he could neuer haue atteined vnto the Ans saith onely that sectes and heresies gaue strenght vnto Antichrist which is nothing to pourpose as thowgh both thes coulde not stand well together Where he saith the writers and Councells off 500. yeares laboured to kepe owt Antichrist and therfore thinges taken from them can not iustly be suspected I merueill he vnderstandeth not first that diuers off that auncientie he speaketh off and off the cheifest of them knew not what Antichrist was but imagined fnodly of him as of one singular person and that he should starte vp soudenly c. that Elias should come to destroie him that he should be borne of the Iewes that he should raigne in Ierusalem and diuers other suche fables Secondly that he remembreth not the ignorance off men to be such that they often times make him a bridge against whom they thinke to stop the passage Thirdly that being oftentimes ouermastred off their affections with hinderance off the truthe they giue somewhat to them Further that errors and heresies as he saithe strengthening Antechriste he coulde forgette the manifolde errors which are to be founde in the fathers of the time he prescribeth Laste off all if he coulde be ignorante off thes thinges yet examples off our daies might haue tawght him that euen now there be which knowing Antichriste and detesting him cease not to mainteine thinges wherby that kingdome partly standeth Where he saith no man of modesty and learning will condemne orders of that time withowte manifeste proofe especially in gouernement I would gladly knowe of him why he should add especially in gouernement what reason can he shewe why we shoulde not call their gouernement to as narrow a searche and as streight a trial as their doctrine When as yt can not be but where the Doctrine is attainted the infection theroff muste nedes come vnto the discipline especially when the Mynisters which sitte at the sierne off gouernement be seased with that euill And the discipline of the churche being the wall wherwith the doctrine ys kept safe as in a citie the wall is that which feeleth the firste assaulte and is battered before the citie can lie open to the violence off the artillery so in the siege off the churche by spirituall ennemies the discipline and gouernement is that wherinto the firste breache is made So that hauinge good cawse to holde for suspecte whatsoeuer either in doctrine or in gouernement those times lefte vnto vs not confirmed by substanciall proofes owte of the worde we haue yet better cawse to mistruste their gouernement as that which hauing abidden the greatest brunte hathe more neede off reparacions This appeareth in the firste Councell of Nice where the moste off errors decreed vppon were in the discipline and not so much in the doctrine beside the vngodly coustome which may appeare to haue occupied almost all the churches towching
prophanacion yt was of the giftes of God no man of any iudgement in the worde of God can be ignorante For semeth it a meete thing that for the blessing off God gyuen vnto their preaching they shoulde be made rulers off all those peoples which they gained And what differeth this from symonie but that as one selleth the giftes off the holy goste for monie so this made march andrise off them for honor and money both And verely hauing before a competente stocke in this poincte they did not so much get disciples vnto Christe as to them selues nor so much enlarge his kingdome as their owne not doo thoffice of pastors as of hirelinges and stâ—pendarie souldiers bente vpon the spoile Another cause off this scarcitie was that as they prouided that there should be no bishops where were none before so they decred that in dioceses where there were if after the deathe of the bishop the people of that church had rather yelde them selues subiecte vnto another bishop then chuse a newe that it shoulde be lawfull for them so to doo And theruppon yt is very like that diuers churches when good bishops beganne to be rarer then wedges of golde seing any one which behaued him selfe more tolerably yelded them selues vnto him Not muche vnlike those times off the Lordes indignacion which the Prophete speaketh of wherin a nomber of weomen laide holde off one man Beside that it is not vnlike but the stately pompe off bishops hauinge taken deepe roote the people did not vnwillingly quite the estate of a bishop and as off an euill neighbor and one which laie to heauy vpon them were glad to be rid off him yt might be also the peoples faulte which as our experience teachethe to muche rather then they woulde beat the charge of mainteining a sufficiente mynistrie off their owne were contente to yelde vp their priuiledge off hauing a bishop to receiue with abatement off their charges a mynistrie they cared not what Laste of all when Sathan had lifted vp the sonne of perdition into his feare and had made a full conqueste off all synceritie off religion yt was flatly decreed that yt should not be lawfull to ordeine any Bishop ether in villages or small cytie leste throwghe the multitude bishops should waxe vile as I haue alledged in the former booke Wherupon cometh here to be considered what ys answered that I be not coÌ„pelled there to renewe this question againe His answer is that I haue falstfied the place that I haue not redd the Epistle that yf I had hauing anie modestie I would neuer haue so written To let the reste goo and withal his vnworthy reproche so often repeated for saying Boniface to Zacharie in steade off Zachary to Boniface seing the quotation in the margent is right I say to let thes goe consider wherin I haue vsed falshoode Yâ— ys firste assigned in that where the wordes off the Epistle are leste the name off a Bishop shoulde vvax vile I saide leste they shoulde vvaxe vile throvvghe the multitude If I haue falsified in adding throvvgh the multitude what truth or faithe hathe the Answerer vsed in adding becawse the contemptiblenes off the place often tymes bringeth contempte off the person This addicion off wordes ys greater then mine and no more founde in the Epistle then mine whose interpretacion is more aggreable vnto the minde off the writer his that the daunger off contempte was conceiued by reason off the place ormine that it was by reason off the multitude let the reader iudge Which that he may he may the easelier doo let it be considered what Ierome writeth where speaking off the pride off the Deacons he assigneth the cawse that they were so much set by to haue bene their fewnes and the cawse why the Elders were so light made of becawse they were moe in nomber For the aboundance of any commoditie doth so commenly bring downe the price of it that there is no nation I thinck where it is not in prouerb that rare thinges are greatly esteemed as contrariwise thinges off excellent and necessarie vse are throwgh their multitude called vile Which is declared there by example of Poley a commen and vile herb in those countreis and yet for the rarenes more esteemed in India then pepper Of the other side where he saith they were not placed in villages â–ª or small cities because the smallnes of the place doth make the person often times contemned in steed that it is meet the bishop should be reuerenced by that reason there should be no minister of the word in those places at all For it behoueth that the minister also haue the reuerence of his people which becommeth the embassadour and steward off Christ and if the bishop looke for more he pricketh at a further marck then euer the word off God set vp But how cometh it to passe that the bishop off Canturbery is more esteemed then the bishop off London and he off Winchester then he off Norwich if the place cawse the estimacion of the Bishop When gentlemen and noblemen build their howses more commenly in small townes and more solitary places doth the Ans thinck that they lose any of their estimacion therby Also by this reason it owght to be forbidden that Iustices off Peace and Quorum shoulde dwell in countrey townes and commaunded to dwell onely in great townes lest they be contemned off the people But beside that it is contrary to the wisdome of God in the scripture the Paganes which neuer saw that light could tell that the places doo not make men honorable but men the places And Ierome saith the bishop off an obscure citie hath as much autoritie as he off the most famous If the D. aÌ„swer that it owght to be so but it is not throwgh the folie off certein yf that were graunted yet yt is vnmeet that the ministrie should be according to the euill disposition off certein for then forsomuch as yowth is subiect to contempt it shoulde be vnmeet to choose a young man of what giftes soeuer vnto the ministerie Thother falshoode the Ans chargeth me with is for that I gather off this canon that in times paste there were bishops in seuerall parishes and small townes when there was no bishop before off anie parishe yt semeth that his vnderstanding can not be so simple but that he maie perceiue if there were no other proofe that those canones made so often for the forbidding of ordeining of bishops in villages and small cities proceeded theroff that the churches in villages and small cyties had their bishops as other places had For to what pourpose doo they defende yt but that yt was vsed And wherfore was that lawe so often renewed vnles there had bene resistance and vnles the churches refused to subiecte themselues to suche a wicked order yf men make not lawes but vpoÌ„ erperience of thinges which they mislike how muche les doo they renew them againe and againe
thapostels times at Philippos where Paul expresly saluteth diuers bishops at Ephesus froÌ„ wheÌ„ce certein bishops sent for came to MiletuÌ„ Likewise in the church off Thessalonica there were diuers Presidentes the same by the D. diuinitie that Bishop or Archbishop And as it was in those churches so yt ys like to haue bene in other off greate resorte to heare the worde off God and habilitie to enterteine a more plentifull ministery Nether let him as he is wont oppose vnto the manifest wordes off the scripture Ambroses exposition vpon the place to the Philippians nor that which goeth vnder Ieromes name vpon the same For as for Ambrose a childe may see how violently he forceth the texte and what inconuenience he runnethe into to make yt agree with the coustome off his times wherin this order was for the moste parte worne owt And as for the other he is a couÌ„terfaicte and so marked not onely because he contrarieth that which Ierome did plainly teache but also for that the forme off writing is farre off another complexion Yt can not be denied but that this order of God was strickeÌ„ at by diuers canons off Councels and that as this was the firste attempte which the deuill gaue to abridge the nomber off Bishops in the churche so yt was more aunciente then that other off robbing the villages and small Cyties off their bishops Vpon what rotten groundes this abuse crepte in cometh afterward to be considered here yt is to be noted that this corruption was not so generall but that often times yt admitted exception And notwithstanding bothe custome and Canons in that behalfe good men vpon occasion made no conscience to ordeine twoo bishops of one citie Euseb maketh mention of Narcissus and Alexander Bishops at ones in one parishe and if yt be true which he reporteth that the same was by reuelation from heauen yt ys a good argumente that this voice was as yt were a repeale off that custome which had bene browght in contrarie to the firste institution off god Yt is writteÌ„ off Augustine that he was made bishop off Hippo bothe by the instante requeste off Valerius then another bishop there and by the consente off the Metra politane Bishop off Carthage And albeit in consideration off the canons made to the contrarie Augustine was lothe to take the charge yet instantly required he accepted yt Augustine him selfe also was off aduise that in those places where was a Donatiste Bishop and a catholike if the Donatiste returned vnto the vnitie of the churche then he should be receiued into the felowship off the bishops office with the catholike bishop Where he putteth onely thes exceptions if the people vvill suffer yt yf becavvse yt is not accoustomed the people vvill beare it Wherby is cleare that notwithstanding it was forbiddeÌ„ by canons yet he thowght yt not vnmeet to haue two bishops in one church if the people would beare it and if he were of this aduise notwithstanding the couÌ„cels to the coÌ„trary how much more would he haue thought it meet if the church had required aÌ„d made sute for it Also it is not to be forgotten that although this corruption off gyuing the name bishop to one in a church from the rest to whom it did off right belong be auncient yet godly men misliked it and by all likelihood broke it of Which Ieromes wordes do apparantly import this coustome vvas in the church off Alexandria from S. Mark vntill Heraclas and Dionysius For onles there were some change then why would he not rather haue saied from S. Mark vntill his time considering that all that time there was continuall succession of church and bishops Therfore belike those godly men seing the mischeif like to ensue of that coustome and vnderstanding that thinges owght to be called to the apostolick institution changed that coustome Furthermore it is diligently to be considered that this order off hauing one onely in euery church to haue the name of Bishop ouerspred not the church soudenly and at a clap but entred by litle and litle so that it is like there were diuers ages past or euer this had a generall passage thorowgh all the churches in the world By all which it may appeare how the Ans is abused in saying it can not be shewed from Christes time that euer there were two bishops in one church Thes thinges being thus laied let vs now come to Cyprians Testimonies Caput 3. VNto the firste diuision I haue answered In the second to proue that Cyprian speakethe off an Archbishop the D. concludeth thus yt is the principall office of the archbishop to prouide that peace and vnitie be kept in the churche c. but the office off him whom Cyprian describeth is to keepe peace in the churche therfore Cyprian speaketh of an archbishop This argumente is caste in the same moulde that those which he hathe vntrwly compared my reason vnto before and yt hathe almost more faultes then wordes But that the simplest maye see his dealing yt is to be vnderstanded that as the pretence off institucion off the Archbishop was to keepe peace and suppresse scismes so the onely pretence off translating the name off bishop from manie in one churche vnto one onely was the same as appeareth by the place off Ierome after discussed To let passe therfore that I haue proued and will after more appeare that there was then nether Archbishop nor Metropolitane and for disputacion sake to imagin Archbishops then yet when bothe the name and office Cyprian speaketh of agree vnto him which gouerneth in euerie churche or to speake as the D. speaketh diocese and the office onely withowte the name agreethe to the Archbishop yt must needes be meeter â—o refer Cypcians wordes to the Bishop then to the Archbishop seing that there be more cordes off reasons to pull them that waies then the other At the leaste yt is cleare that the Argument off the A. is faultie seing yt was not onely the principall office off the Archbishop to prouide for peace c. but the same also was the principall office off the Bishop as that vnder pretence wherof that kinde off Bishop was instituted Where he cometh to his oulde hole that althowghe the name be not there yet the office is I refere my selfe vnto that written before in that be halfe Howbeit here yt appeareth how he spake withowt booke saying all writers before the Nicene Councell make mention bothe off their names and offices when as Cyprian one off them hathe no worde off them Where he saithe Cypr. speaketh off Cornelius who had gouernement off all the prouince that is the question which becawse he coulde not proue he taketh graunted Where he addeth Cyprian had the charge and ouersight off all churches in Aphrica and for proofe alledgeth the 4. booke 8. Epistle he is abused for Cyprian dothe saie no suche thing He speaking there off himselfe and
priest and bishop for the same Howbeit because the autor him selfe ys aliue and knoweth best what he meaneth I am well content the meaning off his wordes be such as him self shall beste like off Out off M Fox he can not finde so much as a fig leafe and therfore telleth vs how he saith Rome vvas a patriarchall church and therfofore not vnlike but Carthage was also how by a dioces is ment a Prouince and forsomuch as he allowed an archbishop yt is like he expounded Cyprians place of an archbishop The onely rehersall is too long a confutation In the end are recited at large the wordes of M. Philpot. which attributing vnto Cyprian a dioces declareth that he esteemed him a bishop not an archbishop For that he calleth him the Nouatians cheif Bishop yt is far from the estate of an archbishop He might well call him so in respect of his singular learning and pietie or in that he was bishop off the cheifest place in Afrik And the same may be saied off Cornelius being Patriarch For otherwise in autoritie he could not be seing him self confesseth that patriarches were appointed at the councell off Nice about 150. years after Albeit the truth is that the appointement of those 4. patriarchall seates was not by the Councell off Nice but off Calcedon Nether doth it follow that if Cornelius were a Pairiarch therfore he was Prince off many bishops onles he will say that becawse Tertullian calleth Philosophers Patriarches off Heretikes and Ierome Tacianus the Patriarch of Encratites therfore Philosophers and Tacianus bore dominion ouer the Heretikes or Encratites He might be so called in that he was cheif father of the church off Rome where he executed his office as Ierome witnesseth off the Iewes Rabbines to haue bene called Patriarches yet they had no gouernmēt or rule but in the seuerall Synagogues where they taught Now it appeareth the Ans can not bring so much as one seely testimony to proue this place of Cyprian vnderstood of tharchbishops or metropolitanes autoritie besides that alledged of Muscu flatly denying that Cyp. thowght of any Archbis or Metrop but onely of euery Bishop in his owne church I will ad the testimony of Bucer who affirmeth the very same that I. Shewing against the Pope that Christ onely is vniuersall bishop he assigneth this reason For he is present vvith his sheepe and vvith euery of them and feedeth thē vntill the end of the vvorlde and for this cavvse putteth ministers in his place and that to euery church her seuerall minister For he did not onely gyue Apostles Prophetes Euangelistes and ministers off many churches once but gyueth also daily vnto euery church off his her ministers Pastors and Doctors and both instructeth and leadeth them vvith his spirit that they may serue their ministries him self onely gyuing increase vnto their planting and vvatering For vnto euery one off them he hath appointed a proper portion off the flock as S. Cyprian testified by vvarrant off tradition off Christ and his Apostles and that vvith this condition and povver that euery one together vvith his presbyterie and Clergie should rule his vvhole flock as one vvhich should make account off his ovvne act not vnto the Pope off Rome but to the lord vvhich is the Prince of Pastors Amōgest vvhō no man might appoint him self bishop of bishops or iudge an other or be iudged of an other vvherupon the iudgemēt of the bishop belonged vnto Synodes not vnto one bishop as long as the policie off the church gyuen by thapostels stoode Therfore bishops vvere equall not onely in povver of the keies by vvhich fable Latomus vvould elude the place of Cyprian but also in vse and degree off povver and iurisdiction In the end shutting vp all that he had saied off the metropolitanes he saith This is the sentence off the catholike church concerning the povver of bishopes as vvell off Rome as others grounded on the vvord off God approued by canons obserued off all true bishops Wherin Bucer affirmeth that this portion off the flock which Cyprian speaketh off is the charge off euery minister in his seuerall church and that by institution off Christ and his Apostels no minister or bishop can haue an other bishop to iudge him but that if there be a fault in him it is to be iudged by Synodes Thus I leaue to the readers iudgement how it was more easie for the Ans to say the godliest and learnedest writers expound the place of Cyprian of an archbishop then to shew it when it cometh to proofe And althowgh he fall flat vnder the bourden vndertaken in his first booke yet as thowgh he had not half his lode he hath charged him self a fresh For where before he saied the godliest and learnedest expound this of an archbishop now he saith all learned writers expound it as he doth It were well there were some reasonable proportion betwene the toung and the hand for it can not be but a fowle fault to be so long tounged and so short handed Before I come to Ieromes testimonie the order off tymes for the better vnderstanding off this cause requireth that those bothe autorities and examples be answered which the Answerer hath alledged bothe before owte off the Councell off Nice and Antioche and after pa. 470. c. The nexte to the times off Cyprian is Dionysius Alexandrinus which saith he had vnder his iurisdictiō all the churches in Pentapolis as Athanasius testifieth in a certeine epistle Apolog 2. First there ys no suche thinge in all that booke nor in no epistle conteined therin The place he meaneth of is in an epistle he wrote concerning Dionysius iudgement againste the Arian heresie Then yt ys not saide as he reporteth that all the churches of Pentapolis were vnder his iurisdiction but onely that he had care of those churches or as the translators words be the care of those churches apperteined vnto him Which what litle or no weighte they haue to proue archiepiscopall iurisdictiō shall be seene when we come to the place where the sense of this to haue care ys discussed In the meane time yt is to be obserued for better triall of this matter which I haue before noted owte of Eusebius that he succeded in the bishoprick off Alexandria vnto his predecessor withowte attributing vnto hym any further charge And when as Euseb declareth that he writing vnto the churches in Egipte wrote vnto them by the bare name of the brethren vvhich vvere in Aegypte withowte any title betokening anie bonde or knot off mynisterie towardes them and off the other parte writing vnto the churches in Alexandria intitleth that writing an exhortation vnto his flocke he declareth euidently that he estemed Alexandria his proper charge and that sauing that bothe in respecte Aegypte was his contrey and the peace of his owne churche was folded vp in the welfare of yt his care for Aegipte was generall as for other churches And the very testimonie
by that Beza writeth vpon thes wordes he gaue all these vvhich belieued in him this dignitie or prerogatiue that they should be called the children off God. Now what this dignitie and preeminence was may easely be seen by that the bishop of Rome hauing preeminence or dignitie ouer the bishop off Constantinopel Alexandria c. had nothing therby more then they sauing onely the first place in their meetinges Seing therfore thes wordes translated to haue power signifie nothing but to haue honour which consisted onely in hauing the highest place by thes wordes off the Councell groweth nothing to the Metropolitan but onely to sit in the highest place at meetinges This may also appeare by the same h Councell where yt is said that if there rise disorder in any churche vvhich is not compounded it ovvght to be decided at the prouinciall Councell which was therfore to be houlden twife euery yeare in which faultes vvere to be corrected not by the Metropolitane but by the bishops together And becawse the Councell here referreth vs to that accoustomed before yt is to be considered what that was so far as we haue testimonie The bishops assembled at Nice browght their quarrels one against an other and offred them to the Emperour which they would not haue doon at least so generally if there had bene any such order taken off referring their debates to the Metropolitan The Emperour likewise receiuing their bils and answering that it perteined not vnto him to decide those matters sendeth them not to their Metropolitanes to be iudged but adiourneth them to the iudgement off god Yet yf there had bene any suche autoritie ecclesiasticall off the Metropolitanes the Emperour as he was very religious in those obseruations would not by all likelihood haue failed in that Likewise writing ioyntly to Alexander bishop and Arius Elder off Alexandria amongeste other thinges he saith it vvas not meet they should rule so great a people being deuided amōge them selues Where it is to be obserued that howsoeuer thes wordes so great a people be taken whether for the churche off Alexandria or for all Agipt c. the Bishop gouerned not alone but by cōsent and aduise of the Elders of that church Then if the Ans will refer this gouernement to the whole countreis off Aegypt Lybia c. and take it in that signification he doth for bearing dominion and commaunding the rest not the bishop onely but euery Elder off Alexandria had commaundement not onely ouer the Elders but ouer the bishops them selues off other churches Which if it be absurd that whereoff it followeth must be likewise This is all that I finde the Nicene Councell gyueth to the Metropolitan aboue the rest how litle it is and how small a part off that the Answ presumeth let the reader iudge That he owght to be no bishop which is made withowt consent off his Metropolitan is a very seely prerogatiue seing yt was the order of the church in those times that all the bishops off the Prouince shoulde be at the making off a Bishop And as the election off the people was voide if the Metropolitane were not at it so was it also if there were not three bishops at the least present Let vs see now whether the practise of the Metropolitanship will fall owt any more fanourable for this pretended iurisdiction Athanasius foloweth on whom the D. woulde fasten this archbishopricke firste because Ischaras submitted him selfe vnto him by lettres As if euery one which hath offended an other doothe by his submission acknowledge him an archbishop whom he hathe offended and as if Ischaras owght not to haue doone as muche vnto any bishop in the Prouince yf he had belonged vnto his parishe as he did vnto that of Athanasius Secondly becawse Arsenius and those off his diocese wrote lettres off submission vnto Athanasius The print off the diocese is so deeply set in the D. heade that what soeuer he meeteth with he turnethe into yt For there is there no mention off diocese but off a citie As for the submission he maketh yt is not to Athanasius but vnto the ecclesiastisticall canons onely he acknowledgeth him Metropolitane and that withowt his sentence he will make no Ecclesiasticall decree perteining vnto the churche which we denie not For we confesse that there were then Metropolitanes and as Arsenius coulde not make anie decree to wching the whole churche in the prouince no more coulde Athanasius withowte Arsenius as hath bene before owt off the former booke declared But that he was subiecte vnto Athanasius there ys not a worde the cleane contrary is to be plainly seene For Arsenius in his fare well writeth thus vve and those vvith vs salute the vvhole companie off sacred men vvhich are in thy iurisdiction by which wordes he manifestly exempteth him selfe frō the iurisdiction off Athanasius Wherupon yt muste folowe that the office off Metropolitaneship in those daies implied no subiection nor autoritie to commaunde ouer other bishops in his prouince And Athanasius in calling the bishops there his fellovv ministres often times declareth in what place he had them not as subiects but as his fellowes And that the A. escape not with that Popishe shifte that Athanasius therby did declare his humilitie yt is to be seene in that booke that the other bishops doo more then half a dosen times call him their felovve mynister barely withowte other title Now if Athanasins not off right but off his greate humilitie called him self their felowe mynister yet the other bishops in so calling him when they were subiecte vnto him and at his commaundement are to be charged not only as voide off Christian humilitie but also as forgetfull euen off all commen ciuilitie and good manners That added off Athanasius visiting off Mariotes and the Prouinces there as they are called perteineth nothing vnto this question for there were no bishops in that place and what he did in that behalfe did not as Archbishop but as Bishop that territory belonging vnto Alexandria And not onely Archbishops but bishops yea Elders visited the parishes off other bishops As for that the parishes in the territory off Mariotes had neuer◠bishop but belonged vnto Athanasius beside that I haue shewed that corruptions had greatly preuailed at that time it is to be obserued that it is there put as a strange thing and vnwonted that one bishop should haue so large grownd For vnles that be the autors ende there was no cause why he shoulde haue vsed that kinde off speach Which may better appeare forsomuche as Socrates speaking off this storie interlaceth the same sentence when as speaking off the places off bishops els where he neuer mentioneth any such thing The canons off Arles Councell off that attributed vnto the Apostles and of Antioch follow The first hath nothing not graunted and serueth for filling onely The second supposed of the Apostles ys the same with that of Antioch That off
councell as appeareth by his precise denying off it to be in that canon vvhere otherwise he would haue saied in that Councell it appeareth that he vseth lesse synceritie in thes holy matters then the Heathen â—n their prophane For Alexander counseilled to set vpon Darius in the night answered that he vvould not steale the victorie but the D. concealeth from his reader euen that which he knew my answer must needes discouer Where he saith our metropolitan calleth Synodes althowgh not prouinciall and propoundeth the matters first is nothing to the purpose for calling onely diocesan Synodes he doth nothing which a simple bishop may not aswell as he â–ª and therfore no cause vvhy there should be an archbishop in this respect Secondly all know that those Synodes he speaketh off are houlden for the moste pate by deputies at his appointement So that vvhich the D. vtterly condemneth in the Discipline vve propounde touching the chusing off a president euery Synod is doen here and that at the plrasure off one man not by consente off the mynisters yea by appointement off one for the moste parte no Ecclesiasticall person in matters perteining to the ministrie Thirdly I would know by what right the archbishop may call his diocesan Synodes â–ª yf by Ecclesiasticall then vvhy not also the Prouinciall considering that they are of one kinde ether both Ecclesiasticall or both cyuill Yf he do yt by ciuill autoritie vvhy doth he not aswel vvaite for the magistrates commandement in one as in the other He saith the archishops office consisting in sondry other thinges besides calling Synodes propounding matters ouerseing the limites owght not to ceasse althowgh he doo none off these Yt being manifeste that these were the cheife cawses vnder pretence wheroff he was browght in and especially to thend that controuersies and contentions amongest the mynistrie by Synodes called and ordered by him might he ended yt must follow that if wee may spare him for these we may easely be with owt him for the rest and so this is not for the amendement but for the ouerthrow off his surisoiction Because wee agree in the matter and I haue before shewed that the metropolitanes were appointed to ouersee that none passed his boundes I omit the iniury he dothe in supposing that I send him to the ninth Canon for that matter when as the word there by all indifferency owght rather to be referred to the councell in the text then to the canon in the margent Where I say that this ouersight off limites may be withowt an archbishop he sayth yt may be beste by him whereoff let the reader vpon the former allegations off both Sydes iudge where he affirmeth yt no good argument againste the archbishop that he doth not kepe the olde Canons owt off vse with vs seing our archbishop houldeth off those in times past and hath for his cheifest defense that there where archbishops in times paste all see if there be not the same causes off them now that were then how at the least this hould is throwne downe Where I shew that our archbishop in giuing licences to preach in a dousen dioceses at the leaste breaketh the same order for the keping vvheroff he vvas ordeined he answereth yt is profitable Where beside the vntruth before shewed he condemneth that order off the Councell off Constantinople that decreed against that wandring and ouerthroweth one off the cawses wheruppon the metropolitans office standeth That parte off the difference of the metropolitan from other bishops rose off the commoditie off the citie and for that yt vvas honoured vvith the Emperours courte is manifest by the encrease and decrease lifting vp and throwing downe off the authoritie off the Patriarch all seates That the Emperour might make the metropolitan seate which he would I well vnderstood seing I set it downe before but the question to where yt is meetest the Archbishop should be if there must be one And my reason was forsomuche as the place moste fyttest hath well and happely wanted him therfore our churche may be well without him His trifling in the two translations argueth that to fill vp he careth not if his reader peele strawes for nothing â—ether off them is againste that I setdowne The cauil against my order becawse I come from the councel of Antioche backe to Cyprian is too simple For yt is not as his for one matter but for diuers beside that I reprehended him for that yt skilleth much to obserue the order off times when question was off the time and antiquitie of tharchbishop Whether Cyprians wordes do flatly forbid any one bishop to haue autoritie ouer an other muche les ouer all I leaue yt be iudged off that before likewise how honeste an exception yt is againste this sentence that yt was spoken in a Councell where an error was decreed also in what sense I called Cyprian metropolitan further how vntrwe yt is that he which denieth the autoritie of one bishop ouer an other exempteth the ministers either from cyuill or ecclesiasticall subiection or punishement Lastly what a cauil yt is that when the correction of the disorders in the ministrie is gyuen to the cyuill magistrat the prince therby is ouercharged Now if the reader finde vpon the discourse before that the churche well gouerned in Cyprians time had no archbishop nor metrapolitane that had autoritie ouer others when there was moste neede considering there was then no christian bishops Then yt is manifeste that there is now les cawse when wee haue a Christian magistrate which alledged here by me the D. him selfe althowgh he had good will to bite at durst not come neere His cauill that I alledged this canon falsely attributed vnto the Apostels is answered beside that I shew that yt being falsely assigned to them is notwithstanding the true canon off the Councell off Antioche The Canon is as I haue alledged nothing nether added nor diminished which might disaduaÌ„tage the D. cause any â—ote whether the bishop according to that canon may doo that which apperteineth vnto his owne parish without the archbishop whether the archishop taketh matters owt off their handes concludeth them not making the bishops prime contrary to the tenure off that canon which the D. denieth I leaue to the readers iudgement his especially which hath seene the marchandise and trafique off his courtes And it may partly appeare by the boke off the 7â— archbishops where Canterbury is made the head off all our churches all bishops svvorne to canonicall obedience off that archbishop and defense off all Priuiledges and liberties of that seate â–ª Where the bishop off London is his deane to cal synodes to publishe his decrees to make retourne off th execution VVinchester his Chauncelour Lincolne his vice chancelour Salisburie his chanter VVorcester his chaplaine Rochester his cros bearer when that bagage was Wher his autoritie is said to haue no certeine boundes but almost as
the circumstance of time and countrie Euen as he hath heard godly men in in times paste forbidding this stately pompe and wealth off bishops in other ages so he might haue red yt forbiddē of those of our age M. Caluin writeth thus hovv the bishops in times paste rioted not in superfluous vvealth that one voice of the Synod off Aquileia VVhere Ambrose vvas president the pouertie of the lords mynisters is glorious doth sufficiētly declare Verely the bishops had then riches vvhervvith they might haue made the church to haue a Sightly porte yf they had thovvght that that had bene their trvve ornament But vvhen they knevve that nothing is more contrary to the office of a pastor then to shine and svvell in dayintie fare costly apparel many seruantes princely palaces they folovved and embraced humilitie and modestie yea pouertie yt selfe vvhich Christ consecrated amongeste his ministers And after vvas yt meete that they should folovv the magnificence off Princes in the number off vvaiting men brauerie of houses costlines of fare and apparel vvhose life ovvght to haue bene a singular example off frugalitie modestie continencie and humilitie hovv muche did this abhor from their office vvhom the eternall decre off God forbiddeth to desire fylthy lucre and to be content vvith a simple kind off liuing alledging to that purpose the canons off the Carthage Councel which I haue set downe and ther to calling the bishops of these times which notwithstanding the D. saith were for those times He might also haue red off the godly learned with vs which condemne yt flatly in our both countrie and age For the knowledge wheroff let the reader resorte vnto the seuenth Article off Maister Barnes Likewise to that Maister Hooper saith that the fourth parte of the bishoprike vvere enovvgh for the bishop and that the magistrates vvhich suffre suche abuse off those goodes be culpable off the fault Further to that an other calleth them to the tenth parte off their bishopricke when he biddeth them come dovvne from their thovvsandes and take thē to their hundredes And if it be so as M. Hooper saith yt ys so farre from that this aboundance is commodious vnto the common wealth and honour to Prince as he other where saith that it draweth the wrath of God vpō the Prince and consequently vpon the common wealth Beside that the D. can shewe no one pointe wherin yt is honorable to the Prince but onely barely affirmeth yt And yt is manifeste that yt being incommodious vnto the church yt muste needes be damagable vnto the state the good and Godly wealth wheroff is the Princes honour Where he saith riches faire houses and costly furniture be no hinderances to a godly man to doo his dewtie oneles he say a bishop and by reason off his ministrie he speaketh not to purpose yf so then yt is before confuted and more at large purswed off the forsaide book off discipline That Hypocrisie and pride lieth hyd vnder the name off pouertie ys from the matter not onely because the pouertie which the Councell speaketh of is none such that had not sufficiēt and honest maintenance as may appeare in Augustines maner off liuing which was at the making off the Carthage Canons but also because they spake not off a pretended pouertie but off that which meete for the estate off a bishop should be no further in shew then in deed Althowgh yt were better for the church that this pride laie hid then to haue so many witnesses off yt in their howses hanged Their tables and cupbordes spred their garmentes died with it and their manner off life both at home and abrode proclaiming yt He saith also that bishops were wealthy then becawse feasting was forbidden them In deede they were welthy stewardes but poore lordes great Baylifes but small proprietaries This he might wel haue gathered which is trw that euen then ther were which not content with an honest meintenance aspired to further magnificēce in their howses houshould stuf and fare then was sitting for bishops and that vnder colour off getting estimacion to their office which appeareth both in the for said canons made for that purpose and in Ierome Where he saith that the doctrine off the Gospell is muche more purely professed by ours then it was by the oulde Bishops and for proofe alledgeth here thes Councells and g otherwhere that almoste all the moste auncient fathers yea the moste off the auncientest bishops beleued an abode vpon earth a thowsand yeares after the rising againe that almoste all the Greke bothe bishops and writers and the moste parte off the Latines were spotte with free will merites inuocation off Sainctes c. Where first let yt be obserued how rowgh as in other places before be is with the old writers when it serueth for his purpose and what equitie there is in this mā which crieth owt if I doo but treade as yt where off one off their heeles when he at one stroke almoste all at once by condemning them off error in the matter off iustification the foundation off religion and off free will which he h saith is likewise stricketh them deadly in the head Secondly obserue that he dothe yt vntrewly For beside that he is not hable to shewe the moste parte off both Greke and Latine moste auncient writers after Papias infected with that error off a 1000. yeares to say that the moste parte off the moste auncient bishops were so is a notable slaunder And seing that the writers speak doubtfuly of merites inuocatiō off Sainctes and free will sometime for and sometime againste them likwise seing that diuers thinges vnder ther names are none off theires but heritiks which partly corrupted their bokes partly set forth other vnder their credit they deserued to be somewhat more gently handled And yet these are they forsothe whose autoritie is the beste argument in diuinitie and from which althowgh wee appeale to the scriptures and in appealing crie in the D. eares yet he is deafe and will not heare But I thincke from henceforth wee shall heare no more off Tertullian saith yt c. onles reason be annexed and that owt off the worde off God. Thirdly yt is to be obserued how vnequally the comparison is made for in steed that he should haue compared the corruptions off the bishops off one prouince with the corruptions off oures to make our bishops Sonne to shyne he matcheth yt with the cioudes off errors assembled owt off all the worlde and that by the space off 450. yeares as is to be seene To this cosideration doth pertein the erors off some before noted the vnsincere preaching of some others partly by allegories wherin they are as fonde as the fondest off the aunciente partly by vaine pompe and ostentatiō that was not in them which althowgh they were studied in all good letters yet in their homilies to the people behaued them selues as if they had knowen nothing
Athanasius when he was but deacon or elder at the most writeth To Athanasius Lord and beloued sonÌ„e So that if Dominus must needes be a Lord then my Lord bishop muste by the same reason that he would be called Lord call the elders or Deacons Lordes likewise So there shall be Lord Bishop Lord Elder Lord Deacon vvhich as it is ridiculous so it tuneth not with the bishops note off honour which the D. fighteth for And this is also answer to my Lord Paulinus beside that Lord is not referred vnto the pronoune yovvres as if the councell had said Athanasius was the elders Lord. And if it were yet if he vvill therupon conclude any superioritie of him aboue thelders off his church he must by the same reason say that one simple bishop had superioritie ouer an other seing Eusebius bishop calleth Paulinus his fellow bishop his Lord which is absurd and condemned off him self Now I haue shewed him how bishopes were called most honorable Lordes he hath gotten two or three places where are found titles to the same effect which is idle seing that was confessed To my answer that Lorde vvith them vvas no other title then might be gyuen to a man off meane degree he saith most honorable Lord was onely gyuen to those in great autoritie which is onely said and may easely be confuted in that Alexander bishop off Alexandria the Metropolitane citie vvriting to all the church ministers not bishops onely called them most honorable fellovv ministers That he saith it was not grudged at then that bishops were called by the same titles that Princes ys very plaine language and needeth no commentarie to shew the meaning sauing that he durst not vtter all For if he would haue applied his place he shoulde haue saide yt was not grudged at then that bishops vvere called by more loftie titles then th Emperours seing the title he presseth for the bishops is most precious Lordes and the Emperour as he saith vvas onely called Lord. That the house off salutations was within the boundes off the churche appeareth not in Theodoret. His reason because the houses perteining to the bishoprick were nere the churche is weake For althowgh all howses perteining to the bishoprik were neere yet there might be some neere not perteining therto Hâ—â—beit if it were belonging to the church in that vvord there is no such note off excellency wherby yt deserueth to be the porters lodge of our bishops palaces To that off the bishops bestovving the church goods vpon loitering seruing men vvhich shoulde be bestovved vpon the vniuersities and poore bothe ministers and other he saith and onely saith that their number off seruing men tendeth to the defense off the realme honour off the prince and their owne good education off the princes honour yt is answered strenght to the realme they can not be seing the men should be althowghe they were not nourished by the bishop especially seing the bishops howse is an vnfit schole to traine vp to vvarfare And if the former necessities were helped aÌ„d yt thowght meet that the church goods should serue the realm that vvay all see that yt would rise to more profit if some were nourished off them in profession off a Souldiour then that in waiting vpon the white Rochet they should rather become vvhite liuered then fashioned for that seruice Beside that the bishops countenaÌ„ce being so profitable as yt is made and placed a greate parte in this suite off men it is manifest that his pompe houlding diuers at home which otherwise might be in the field weakeneth rather then strenghneth the realme For the education they get vnder them the corrupte religion of some the wante of Catechising others ignorant in the principles of religion the leudnes of diuers the idlenes off the most parte which is in the eies of all giue to plentifull a confutation off that parte wherin let the reader obserue how vnmeet they be to gouern dioceses and Prouinces which haue their proper houses so euil ordered especially seing the Apostel vvill not truste him vvith one parishe vvhich ruleth not his owne howse vvel And the trwth ys that the church mynistery is of that trauaill and care that yt vvill not suffer the bishops gyftes be they neuer so greate to be spente in the houshoulding and masterlike charge off suche a nomber vvhich vvas no doubt one cause why bothe the scripture and the olde Canons shut owt the bishops from this pompe Where he saith the vniuersities ministers and poore may otherwise be prouided for when that ys browght to pas and in suche sorte as a sufficient nomber â—f learned men may be nourced vp to fournish bothe the churche off ther ministers and coÌ„men wealth off her magistrates the ouerplus may as M. Hoopers counsail is goo to maintenance off Souldiours or other necessary vses aduised off by the common vvealthe That the canons browght against the bishops pomp reache to vniuersitie colledges forasmuch as there were none such then as we haue now ys vntrwe considering that with other vniuersities euery bishops howse vvas as hathe bene shewed a colledge off Students in diuinitie and yt ys otherwise vnsufficient For I reason not againste their pompe because yt was not vsed in times paste but because yt was forbidden And if he can shew the reuenews off Colledges forbidden by the Godly councels then yt had heue somewhat he saith Ad also that if the pompe and ryot off Colledges werelike the bishops yt were likewise worthie to be spoken against Ierome cited against the pompe of bishops receiueth answer that he spake agaynste the abuse and not thuse Ieromes wordes be these let the readeriudge off his meanig yt is a foule shame that before the gates off pore and crucified Christe VVho also eate of other mens meate the Consuls Sergeantes and Gard shoulde vvaite and that the ruler off the Prouince shoulde dine better at thy hovvse then in the palace But if thovv pretend to do these thinges to th ende to beg for the poore the Secular iudge vvill giue more to a churche man vvhich kepethe measure and is frugall then to one vvhich is riche and reuerence more thy holines then thy riches Or if the ruler be suche that he vvill not hearken to the churchmen ctauing for the poores reliefe but vvhen he is amongest the cupps I vvill gladly vvant suche a benefit and beg off Christ in stede off the iudge vvho is better and soner able to helpe then the iudge I omit that he inueighethe against a church maÌ„ which poore before becometh riche by the church aÌ„d liuing very homely before after vsethe delicate fare with other thinges to that ende Whether this were one cause off the bishops stately pompe that certeine noble and riche men receâ—â—ed to the mynistery and liuing somvvhat like their former estates others assaied to be like vnto them whether an other cause were for that it being amongest the heathen priests
the parable of the sower in the 13. of Sainct Mathew forsomuch as according to his saying for one in the church which heareth profitablie three doo the contrarie yt muste follow that euen in the persequuted churche there muste be thrise as manie euill as good Onles peraduenture he will saie that our S. Christe spake that off the estate off the church in time off the ciuill magistrate which was spoken off the whole estate off the churche vnto the worldes end and especially to that present churche which was vnder the crosse Ys it trewe vvhich yow heere affirme can yt not be otherwise in the time off persequution but that churche offices muste be chosen by common consent Howe cometh then to passe that yow denie the election Actes 1. and 14. to haue bene made with the consent off the churche How happeneth yt that yow affirme that Timothe and Titus off their owne authorities withowt the consente ether off eldershipp or people appoincted ministers vnto the churches in Ephesus and Creata that in Cyprians times which were times of persequution the electiō vvas made in some places vvithowt the people verily he had need be a verie kun̄ing ioiner which should set the◠together for the impossibilitie which yow imagine yt is not such but that if the commoditie of the churche and the institution off God had so suffred the churches woulde haue submitted them selues and their voices in their elections vnto the order of one And besides that christian humilitie and loue off aduancing the trwth for which they had forsaken all woulde haue let them to that submission there was Ecclesiasticall discipline to driue them vnto it Onles they woulde rather quittethe church which lightnes doothe not agree with the zeale which yow for yowr aduantage ascribe vnto a persequuted church HEere he denieth that he hath saide that the consent off the churche in the choise off the minister can not stand with the time off the Christian magistrate All the reasons vvhich he alledged are to proue that the election vnder a Christian magistrate can nor be safelye and conuenientlie committed vnto the churche and euē here he saith it is in thes times pernicious and hurtfull But that which can not be safely and cōueniently doone owghte not be doone muche les that vvhich is pernicious and hurtfull Therfore if yow thinke as yow speake yow think as I haue saide that the churches election can not stand with the time of A Christian magistrat And your salue wherwith yow woulde plaster yt that the ciuill magistrate maie ordeine so if he liste is nothing worth For if it be daungerous if yt be inconuenient as yow say to committe the election to the churche he owgte not althowge he woulde giue it into her handes Where yow conclude that yt was in powre off the ciuill magistrate to order that matter because the Emperours made lawes off the election which they woulde not haue doone yff yt had bene ordered by the worde off God yow are to farre wyde For wee reade that Aza made a lawe that who soeuer did not seeke the Lord should die And there are lawes made with vs that men shall heare the worde off God and receiue the sacramentes and yet thes thinges are commaunded of God and vnchangable nether is yt at the pleasure off any magistrate to order them otherwise Yf the reasons vvhich Musc bringeth for conformacion off the election off the churche can be answered then I will leaue them and followe his authoritie otherwise I accounte that althowghe he wrastel with it vvith his lefte hand yet he vpholdeth yt with his righte T. C. concealed nothing subtilely in leauing owt that the ministers ovvght to be blameles he lefte owte that which made nothing ether for or againste the pourpose If the A. had considered what I proue owt of this place ether he should haue omitted this or spoken yt againste his consciēce For I propounded onelye that the election off the churche was both in the times of the Christiā magistrate and cōfirmed by them and the D. can not denie but this place proueth that fully whether it be according to the doctrine of the Apostles or no I shewed before Therfore this disputation is with your selfe and with nothing which I set downe And if I had so set it downe whether the decree off the Emperour would haue borne yt owt considering that the sentence which I lefte owghte to be shut in a parenthesis I leaue yt vnto the iudgement of the reader As for the reasons vvhich are vsed for that pourpose the one that he would haue said decre◠and not wee decree is answered before Thother of propounding three owt of which one should be knowen not practised at any tyme by the Apostles is not sufficient to proue that the Emperour did not set before him their example seing that in the principall poinctes and causes off the election amongest which the chusers are the efficient he kepte him selffe vnto the election of the Apostles Yea if it be well considered yt shall be easely perceiued that he stucke too curiously and precisely vnto the election Actes 1. whilest as there were two sett vp of which one should be taken so in a grater multitude he would haue three out of which he would drawe one And althowgh the imitacion of the doctrine off the Apostles were onely as yow would haue yt that the moste pure should be taken yet yow can not denie but the Emperour tooke this to be the best way to haue most incorrupt ministers that the election should be made by the inhabitantes off the citie Howbeit because I propounded onely to proue that elections by the church haue bene confirmed by Emperours I will not striue with him in this point because I will stop vp the holes as muche as may be wherat he breaketh owt alwaies from that which is in question Yt were an euill interpretation to expound the inhabitantes off the cytie the cheife off the citie especially considering that the decree of other Emperours vvhich followed ordeined that the minister should be chosen by all the people And considering that the Nouelles in latin are corrupte in many places yt is vnreasonable to expound the Code and other lawes by them especially with such open violence And yt may be that the translator in steed off the heades of families put the heades off the citie but for this also I will not striue What ether against my cause or for yowres conclude yow off that the Metropolitan ordeined one off the three which were chosen after that sort Likewise what gaine yow if which is vntrue or very doutefull as that which hath autoritie off bothe sides a man should accord yow that Charles the great was Emperour of the French and not off the Duch Thes are nothing but baites to draw from the cause which yow would so faine shifte yowr handes of The shelter also yow seke in those wordes according to the canons off that