oute any wythout good cause that then the Magistrates shoulde compell the churches to doe their duetye In deede the byshop of Rome gaue the election then into the Emperoure hys handes because of the lyghtnesse of the people as Platina maketh mention but that is not the matter for I do nothing else heere but shew that the elections of the ministers by the Church were vsed in the times of the Emperoures and by their consentes and seeing that Otho confessed it pertayned not vnto him it is to be doubted whether he tooke it at the Bishop his handes And if the Emperoures permitted the election of the byshop to that Citie where it made most for their suertie to haue one of their owne appoyntment as was Rome which with their byshoppes dyd often tymes put the good Emperoures to trouble it is to be thought that in other places both Cities townes they dyd not deny the elections of the ministers to the people Besides that certayne of those constitutions are not of Rome but of any citie whatsoeuer And these Emperoures were and lyued betweene 500. and odde yeares vntill the very poynt of a thousande yeares after Christ so that hyther to thys lyberty was not gone out of the Church albeit the Pope which brought in all tyranny and went about to take all libertie from the churches was now on horse backe had placed hym selfe in that Antichristian seate To the next section in the 45. THose that write the Centuries suspect thys Canon and doubt whether it be a bastarde or no considering the practise of the church But heere or euer you were aware you haue striken at your selfe For before you sayde that thys order of chusing the minister by voyces of the church was but in the Apostles tyme and duryng the time of persecution And the first time you can alledge thys libertie to be taken awaye was in the 334. yeare of our Lorde which was at the least 31. yeares after that Constantine the great began to raigne I say at the least because there be good authors that say that thys Councell of Laodicea was holden Anno. 338. after the death of Iouinian the Emperoure and so there is 35. yeares betweene the beginning of Constantines raigne and thys councel Now I thinke you will not say that the Church was vnder persecution in Cōstantines tyme And therfore you see you are greatly deceiued in your accoumpt And if it be as lawfull for vs to vse maister Caluins authoritie which both by example and wrytings hath alwayes defended our cause as it is for you to wryng him and his wordes to things which he neuer meant and the contrary wherof he continually practised then thys authoritie of youres is dashed For maister Caluin sayth where as it is sayd in that councel that the election should not be permitted to the people it meaneth nothing else but that they should make no election without hauing some ministers or men of iudgement to direct them in their election and to gather their voyces and prouyde that nothing be done tumultuously euen as Paule and Barnabas were cheefe in the election of the churches And euen the same order woulde we haue kepte in elections continually for auoyding of confusion for as we would haue the libertie of the Church preserued which Christ hath bought so dearely from all tyranny so do we agayne condemne and vtterly abhorre all barbarous confusion and disorder But if councelles be of so great authoritie to decide thys controuersy then the most famous councell of Nice will strike a great stroke with you which in an Epistle that it wryteth vnto the Church of Egipt as Theodoret maketh mention speaketh thus It is meete that you should haue power both to chuse any man and to geue their names which are worthy to be amongst the clergye and to doe all things absolutely according to the law and decrees of the churche And if it happen any to dye in the churche then those which were last taken are to be promoted to the honor of him that is dead with thys condition if they be worthy and the people chuse them and the bishop of the citie of Alexandria together geuing his consent and appoynting them An other of the famousest councelles called the councell of Constantinople which was gathered vnder Theodosius the great as it is witnessed by the * Tripartite storie in an Epistle which it wrote to Damasus the pope and Ambrose and others sayth thus We haue ordayned Nectarius the byshoppe of Constantinople with the whole consent of the counsell in the sight of the Emperour Theodosius beloued of God the whole Citie together decreeing the same Likewise he sayth that Flauian was appoynted by that synode byshop of Antioche the whole people appoynting him Likewise in the councell of Carthage where Augustine was holden about anno domini 400. in the first canon of the councell it is sayde when hee hath bene examyned in all these and founde fully instructed then let hym be ordayned Byshop by the common consent of the clarkes and the lay people and the Byshoppes of the prouince and especially eyther by the authoritie or presence of the metropolitane And in the Toletane councell as it appeareth in the 51. distinction it was thus ordayned Let not hym be counted a priest of the Churche for so they speake whome neyther the clergye nor people of that citie where he is a priest doth chuse nor the consent of the metropolitane other priests in that prouince hath sought after Moreouer concilium Cabilonense which was holden anno domini 650. in the tenth Canon hath thys If any Bishop after the death of hys predecessor be chosen of any but of the byshops in the same prouince and of the cleargie citizens let an other be chosen and if it be otherwise let that ordination be accompted of none effect All which councelles proue manifestly that as the people in their elections had the ministers rounde about or synodes counceiles directing them so there was none came to be ouer the people but by their voyces or consentes To the next section in the 45. page Thys alteration c. IN deede if you put such darke coleures vpon the Apostles church as thys is it is no maruell if it ought not to be a patrone to vs of framing and fashioning our church after it But O Lord who can paciently heare thys horrible disorder ascribed to the Apostles church which heere you attribute vnto it that euery one hand ouer head preached baptised and expounded the Scriptures VVhat a window nay what a gate is opened heere to Anabaptistes to confirme their fantasticall opynion wherin they holde that euery man whome the spirite moueth may come euen from the ploughe taile to the pulpit to preache the worde of god If you say it is Ambrose saying and not youres I answere vnlesse you allow it why bring you it and that to proue the difference betwene the Apostles times and these
one chaine of ignorance and want of the knowledge of god he layeth a thousand traps for them to snare them with So that the continuall danger that the church is in dothe as it were speake vnto the pastor in the common prouerbe Sparten hen claches kosma that is looke diligently to that charge whych thou haste receiued For if the watchman shoulde forsake the Citie wherevnto he is appoynted and goe and watche in an other where he is not called althoughe he saue that if he lose the other he shall not therefore escape the punishment of betraying the other citie where he was placed watchman Touching the behalfe of God his glory if any man will say that they can not pearish which once haue beleued and therfore those may be left and others attempted I can say of those that are in ignorance and blindnes that they cānot pearish that be elected although they neuer haue the gospel preached And therfore we muste walke in those wayes that God hathe appoynted to bring them to saluation whych is to feede them continually and watche ouer them so long as they are in danger of hunger in danger of wolues in danger of the ennemyes within and without which is so long as the church is heere vpon the earth Vpon all whych things I conclude that the residence of the pastor is necessary and to dout whether the pastor ought to be resident amongst his flocke is to doubt whether the watchman should be in hys tower the eye shoulde be in the head or the soule in the body or the shepheard amongst his flocke especially where the sheepe are continually in danger of wolues as in the lande of Iewrie from whence thys similitude or manner of speache was taken where they watched their flockes night and day as I obserued before out of S. Luke If any man will herevpon conclude that they haue no space geuen them to slepe to eat to drink c. they are cauils which I wil not vouchsafe to answer Againe if he wil say that then they may not goe for the of the towne to doe their necessary busines for their families I desire them in the name of God that they abuse not his graces in deuising cloakes to couer their disorders but that they would set before them the loue of Christ whych shall be found to be so much as they shall shew themselues diligent in continuall feeding their flockes to feare the iudgement of God before whome no fained or coloured excuse will stande and so I trust they will make no longer absences then must needes And if vpon any occasion at any time they be somewhat longer that the same be not without the leaue of their churches whose they are and which they for the Lord hys sake serue and then also that in such rare and necessary absence they prouide them of some able man to teach in the meane season which the church by her gouernoures will allow of And heereupon also is ended an other question that the answerer maketh whether one may haue many flockes which is whether one shepheard may bee many shepheards one watcheman many watchmen For if his residence be necessary in one place then he ought to content him selfe with one And whereas you would haue men charitably iudge of those which take many lyuinges surely if so be that he taketh many flockes not to the intent to haue more lyuing to mayntaine an ambitious pompe or to satisfie a greedy desire of hauing more then enough but to thys end y he may bring in a more plentifull harnest vnto the Lorde it were good that he would be content to take but that lyuing of all hys flockes which he now hath of one especially where one is able to keepe and maintayne hym and hys family honestly Else let hym heare what councels others haue thought of those which haue more benefices then one In the. 15. Canon of the councell of Nice it is cōmaunded that no clearke should be placed in two Churches and he addeth the reasons whereof the first is that it is a poynt of marchaundise and of filthy gayne The seconde that no man can serue two maisters The thirde that euery one ought to * tary in that calling wherein he is called And in the seconde Tome of the Councelles Damasus in hys fourth Epistle lykeneth those that set ouer their charges vnto other vnto harlots whiche assone as they haue brought forth their children by and by geue them to be nourished of others to the intent that they might the soner fulfill their inordynare lustes Whether it were better y one dyligent pastoure should haue many flockes then a neglygent and vnskilfull pastor one is not the question for we say neither is lawfull nor ought to be done Doe you beleeue that which you sette down of Denys the monke Pope that he deuised and deuided parishes If you doe not why would you haue vs beeleeue it If the law doth condemne hym that turneth a blynde man out of the way or layeth a blocke before hym what doth it hym which would put out the eyes of them that see their way already I haue shewed and the matter is playne that the Lorde deuyded nationall churches into parishes and congregations so that if S. Paule haue not the word of parishe yet hee hath the thing And those that haue redde storyes know that dioiceris which we call a Diocese and which contayneth with vs numbers of parishes was at the first taken to be the same that parishe is and vsed a great while before Denys was borne or monkery begotten And as for Coemeteria or Churchyardes if you meane those places that lye nexte rounde about the churches as they came in with the monke they mighte well haue gone out with him for any profite eyther to the church or common wealth cometh by them But if you meane as the Greeke word which is there vsed signifieth a fitte place where the bodyes of men sleepe and are buried attending the tyme of their rising vp agayne in the last and generall day of iudgement then these churchyardes were in the time of the law and in the primitiue church and at all times when there was any outwarde pollicie of the churche and especially when the church had quietnesse and peace that it might without daunger * bury their deade in some certen conuenient place thereunto appoynted which was for feare of the infection commonly as it may be gathered in the field and out of the towne vnto the which vse custome if it myght be done conueniently it were well that we were restored both because it is more safe for the preseruation of the townes and cities in their health as also for that through the superstition whiche hath beene of being buryed rather in the church then in the churche yarde in the chauncell rather then in the church nearer the high altare then further of the remnantes whereof are in a great
must depose that the name of an archbyshop is not antychristian of whome as of Clement that went before and Anicetus which followeth after the common prouerbe may be verifyed Aske my fellow if I be a theefe And although the answerer be ashamed of hym and sayth therefore he will omit him yet euen very neede dryueth hym to bring hym in and to make hym speake the vttermost hee can And thys honest man sayth that Iames was the first archbyshop of Ierusalem But Eusebius sayth Iames was byshop not archbyshop of Ierusalem and appoynted by the apostles And in an other place he sayth that the apostles dyd appoynt after hys death Simeon the sonne of Cleophas byshop of Ierusalem And Ireneus sayeth that the apostles in all places appoynted byshops vnto the churches whereby it may appeare what an idle dreame it is of Clement Volusianus and Anacletus eyther that Peter dyd thys by his owne authoritie or that the primitiue churche was euer staynes wyth these ambytious tytles of patriarche prymate metropolytane or archbyshoppe when as the storyes make mention that thoroughe out euery churche not chery prouince not by Peter or Paule but by apostles a byshop not an archbyshop was appoynted And heere you put me in remembraunce of an other argument agaynst the archbyshop which I will frame after thys sorte If there shoulde be any archbyshop many place the same shoulde be eyther in respect of the persone or minister and hys excellencie or in respecte of the magnificence of the place but the most excellent mynisters that euer were in the most famous places were no archbyshops but byshops only therefore there is no cause why there shoulde be any archbyshop For if there were euer mynister of a congregation worthy that was Iames if there were euer any citte that ought to haue thys honor as that the mynister of it should haue a more honorable title then the mynisters of other cities and townes that was Ierusalem where the sonne of God preached and from whence the gospell issued out vnto all places And afterwarde that Ierusalem decayed and the church there Antioche was a place where the notablest men were that euer haue bene since which also deserued great honoure for that there the * disciples were first called christians but neyther was that called the first and cheefest church neyther the mynisters of it called the Arche or principal byshoppes And Eusebius to declare that thys order was firme and durable sheweth that S. Iohn the Apostle which ouer lyued the residue of the Apostles ordayned byshops in euery church These two Anacletus and Anicetus you say are suspected why do you say suspected when as they haue bene conuinced and condemned and stande vppon the pillery with the cause of forgerie written in great letters that he which runneth may reade Some of the papistes them selues haue suspected them but those which mayntayne the truth haue condemned them as full of popery full of blasphemy and as those in whome was the very spirit of contradiction to the Apostles and their doctryne And do you marke what you say when you say that these are but suspected Thus much you say that it is suspected or in doubt whether the whole body of poperie and antichristianitie were in the Apostles time or sone after or no for Clement was in the Apostles time and their scholer and so you leaue it in dout whether the apostles appoynted and were the authors of popery or no. I thinke if euer you had red the Epistles you woulde neuer haue cited their authorities nor haue spoken so fauourably of them as you doe You come after to the councel of Nice wherin I wil not sticke with you that you say it was holden the CCC xxx yeare of the Lorde when as it maye appeare by Eusebius hys Computation that it was holden Anno Domini CCC xx and heere you take so greate a leape that it is enoughe to breake the archbishoppes necke to skippe at once CCC yeares that is from the tyme of the apostles vntill the time of the councell of Nice wythout any testimony of any either father or storie of faithe and credite whych maketh once mention of an archbishop What no mention of hym in Theophilus byshop of Antioche none in Ignatius none in Clemens Alexandrinus none in Iustin Martyr in Ireneus in Tertullian in Origine in Cyprian none in all those olde Historiographers out of the whych Eusebius gathereth hys story Was it for his basenes and smalnes that he could not be seene amongst the byshops elders and deacons being the cheefe and principall of them all can the Ceder of Lebanon be hid amongst the boxe trees Aristotle in his Rhethorike ad Theodecten sayeth that it is a token of contempt to forget the name of an other belike therefore if there were any archbishop he had no chaire in the church but was as it semeth digging at the metalles For otherwise they that haue filled their bookes wyth the often mentioning of bishops would haue no doubt remembred him But let vs heare what the councell of Nice hath for these titles In the. 6. canon mention is made of a metropolitane bishop what is that to the metropolitane whych is now either to the name or to the office of the office it shal appeare afterwards In the name I thinke there is a great differēce betwene a metropolitane bishop metropolitane of England or of al England A Metropolitane bishop was nothing els but a bishop of that place which it pleased the Emperor or magistrate to make the chefe citie of the diocese or shire and as for thys name it maketh no more difference betwene bishop and bishop then when I say a minister of London and a minister of Nuington There is no man that is well aduised whych will gather of thys saying that there is as great difference in preheminence betweene those two ministers as is betweene London and Nuington for his office and preheminence we shall see hereafter There are alledged to proue the names of archbyshops patriarkes archdeacons the. 13. 25. 26. and. 27. Canons of the councel of Nece For the. 25. 26. 27. there are no such canons of that councell and although there be a thirtenthe canon there is no worde of patriarke or archdeacon there contained And I maruell wyth what shame you can thruste vppon vs these counterfaite canons whych come out of the popes minte yea and whych are not to be found Theodoret sayeth that there are but twentie Canons of the councell of Neece and those twentie are in the tome of the councels and in those there is no mention of any patriarke archdeacon archbishop Ruffine also remembreth 22. Canons very little differing from those other twenty but in lengthe and in none of those are found any of these names of archbishop archdeacon patriarke And it is as lawfull for M. Harding to alledge the. 44. canon of the coūcell of Nece to proue the supremacie
there shoulde be diuers pastors elders or byshops in euery congregation Sathan wrought first that there should be but one in euery churche thys was no doubt the first step Afterwardes he pushed further and stirred vp diuers not to content them selues to be byshops of one church but to desire to be byshops of a diocese whervnto although it seemeth that there was resistance in that it is sayd that it was decreed often yet in the end this wicked attempt preuailed and thys was an other step Then were there archbishops of whole prouinces whych was the third stayer vnto the seat of antichriste Afterwards they were Patriarks of one of the .iiij. corners of the whole world the whole church being assigned to the iurisdiction of fower that is to saye of the Romaine Constantinopolitane Antiochene and Alexandrine byshops And these fower stayers being layd of Sathan there was but an easy stride for the B. of Rome into that chaire of pestilence wherin he nowe sitteth Hauing now showed howe thys Lordly estate of the byshop began and vpon what a rotten ground it is builded I come to shew how farre the byshops in our time are for their pompe and outward statelines degenerated from the byshops of elder times And heere I call to remembraunce that whych was spoken of the poore estate of Basile and Theodorete and if M. Doctor will say as he doth in deede in a certaine place that thē was a time of persecution and this is a time of peace it is easely answeared that although Basill were vnder persecution yet Theodorete liued vnder good emperors But that shall appeare better by the Canons whych were rules geuen for the byshops to frame them selues by In the. 4. councell of Carthage it is decreed that the byshops should haue a little house neare vnto the church what is thys compared wyth so many faire large houses and wyth the princely palace of a byshop And in the same councel it is decreed that he shoulde haue the furniture and stuffe of hys house after the commen sorte and that hys table and diet should be pore and that he should get him estimation by faithfulnes and good conuersation And in an other councell that the byshops shoulde not giue them selues to feastes but be content wyth a little meate Let these byshops be compared wyth oures whose chambers shine wyth gilt whose walles are hanged wyth clothes of Auris whose cupbordes are loden wyth plate whose tables and diets are furnished wyth multitude and diuersity of dishes whose daily dinners are feastes Let them I say be compared together and they shall be founde so vnlike that if those olde byshops were aliue they wold not know each other For they would thinke that oures were princes and oures woulde thinke that they were some hedge priests not worthy of their acquaintance or fellowshyp In the same councell of Carthage it was decreed that no byshop sitting in any place should suffer any minister or elder to stand Nowe I will report me to themselues how thys is kept and to the pore ministers whych haue to do with them and come before them The byshops in times past had no tayle nor trayne of men after them and thought it a slaunder to the gospell to haue a number of men before and behynde them And therefore is Paulus Sam of atenus noted as one that brought relygion into hatred and as one that seemed to take delight rather to be a captaine of two hundreth then a byshoppe because he had gotten him a sort of seruing men to waight on hym An other example not vnlyke and likewyse reprehended is in Ruffine of one Gregory a byshop Now in our dayes it is thought a commendation to the byshop a credite to the gospell if a byshop haue 30. 40. 60. or moe wayting of hym some before some behynde whereof three partes of them set apart the carying of a dishe vnto the table haue no honest or profitable calling to occupy themselues in two houres of the day to the filling of the church and commōwealth also with all kynde of disorders and greater incommodities then I minde to speake of because it is not my purpose And heere I will note an other cause which brought in this pompe and princely estate of byshoppes wherin although I will say more in a worde for the pompeous estate then M. Doctor hath done in all hys treatise yet I will shew that although it were more tollerable at the first now it is by no meanes to be borne with * In the ecclesiasticall story we read that the inscriptions of dyuers epystles sent vnto byshops were timiotatois kyriois We read also of aspasticon oicon house of salutations which Ambrose byshop of Millain had As for the title of most honorable Lordes it was not so great nor so stately as the name of a Lord or knight in our country for all those that know the maner of the speach of the Grecians do well vnderstand how they vsed to call euery one of any meane countenaunce in the common wealth where he lyued kyrion that is Lorde so we see also the Euangelistes vse the worde Kyrios to note a meane person as when Mary in the. 20. of Iohn thinking that our sauiour Christ had bene the keper of the garden calleth hym Kyrion So likewise in Fraunce they call euery one that is gentilman or hath any honest place Monseur and so they will say also fainng your honour Now we know thys word Lord in our countrey is vsed otherwise to note some great personage eyther by reason of birth or by reason of some high dignitie in the common wealth which he occupyeth and therfore those titles although they were somewhat excessiue yet were they nothing so swelling and stately as oures are And as touching Ambrose house albeit the word doth not employ so great gorgeousnes nor magnificence of an house as the palaces and other magnificall buildinges of our byshoppes yet the cause whereupon thys rose doth more excuse Ambrose who being taken from great wealth and gouernment in the common wealth geuing ouer hys office dyd retayne hys house and that which hee had gotten But our byshops doe maynteyne thys pompe and excesse of the charges of the church with whose goodes a great number of idle loytering seruing men are mayntayned which ought to be bestowed vpon the ministers which want necessary finding for their families and vpon the poore and mayntenance of the vniuersities As for these riotous expences of the church goodes when many other mynisters want and of making great dynners and entertayning great Lordes and maiestrates and of the answere to them that say they do helpe the church by thys meanes I will referre the reader to that which Ierome wryteth in a certayne place where thys is handled more at large By thys which I haue cyted it appeareth what was one cause of thys excesse and stately pompe of the byshops namely that
bowes because the Paganes dyd vse so and that they should not rest from their laboures those dayes that the paganes dyd that they should not keepe the first day of euery moneth as they dyd * An other councell decreed that the christians should not celebrate feastes on the birth dayes of the Martyrs because it was the maner of the heathen whereby it appeareth that both of singulare men and of councels in making or abolyshing of Ceremonies heede hath beene taken that the Christians shoulde not be lyke vnto the Idolaters no not in those things which of them selues are most indifferent to be vsed or not vsed It were not harde to shewe the same considerations in the seuerall things which are mentioned of in thys admonition as for example in the ceremonies of prayer which is heere to bee handled wee reade that Tertullian would not haue the Christians sitte after they had prayed because the idolaters dyd so but hauing shewed thys in generall to be the pollicy of God first and of hys people afterwarde to put as muche difference as can be commodiously betwene the people of God and others whych are not I shal not neede to shewe the same in the particulares Furthermore as the wisedome of God hathe thoughte it the best way to keepe hys people from infection of idolatry to make them most vnlike the idolaters so hath the same wisedome of God thought good that to kepe hys people in the vnity of the truth there is no better way then that they should be moste like one to an other and that as much as possibly may be they shuld haue all the same ceremonies And therfore S. Paule to establishe this order in the church of Corinth that they shoulde make their gatherings for the pore vpon the firste day of the Saboth whych is our sunday alleageth thys for a reason that he had so ordained in other churches so that as children of one father and seruauntes of one family he will haue all the churches not only haue one diet in that they haue one word but also weare as it were one liuery in vsing the same ceremonies Thys rule did the great councell of Nice follow when it ordained y where certaine at the feast of Pentecost did pray kneeling that they should pray standing the reason wherof is added whych is that one custome oughte to be kepte throughout all the churches It is true that the diuersity of ceremonies ought not to cause the churches to dissent one wyth an other but yet it maketh much to the auoyding of dissention that there be amongst them an vnity not only in doctrine but also in Ceremonies Nowe we see plainely that as the forme of oure seruice and Leyturgie commeth to neare that of the papistes so it is farre different from that of other churches reformed and therfore in bothe these respectes to be amended An other faulte there is in the whole seruice or Lyturgie of Englande for that it maintaineth an vnpreaching ministery and so consequently an vnlawfull ministery I say it maintaineth not so muche in that it appoynteth a number of psalmes and other prayers and chapters to be red whych may occupye the time whych is to be spent in preaching wherin notwythstanding it ought to haue bene more wary considering that the deuil vnder this coloure of long prayer did thus in the kingdome of antichriste banish preaching I say not so much in that poynt as for that it requireth necessarily nothyng to be done by the minister whych a childe of ten yeare olde can not doe as well and as lawfully as that man wherewyth the boke contenteth it selfe Neyther can it be shifted in saying this is done for want of able men to be ministers for it may be easely answeared that first the want of sufficient ministers ought to be no cause for men to breake the vnchāgeable lawes of God whych be that none maye be made minister of the churche whych can not teache that none minister the sacraments whych do not preache For althoughe it might be graunted whych thing I woulde not denye no not when there are enough sufficient ministers that they may appoynt some godly graue man whych can do nothing else but reade to be a reader in the churche yet that may not be graunted that they maye make of one that can doe nothyng but reade a minister of the gospell or one whych may haue power to minister the sacramentes Besides that howe can they say that it is for want of sufficient ministers when as there be put out of the ministerye men that be able to serue God in that calling and those put in their roumes whych are not able when there are numbers also whych are fit to serue and neuer sought for nor once required to take any ministery vpon them If therfore it were lawfull to plead want of able ministers for this dumbe ministery whych is altogither vnlawfull yet woulde thys plea neuer be good vntill suche time as bothe those were restored whych are put out and all other sought forth and called vpon whych are fit for that purpose Againe it can not be sayde iustly that they haue taken these reading ministers vntill suche time as better may be gotten for if the church could procure able ministers and should desire that they mighte be ordained ouer them they can not obtaine that considering that these reading ministers haue a free hold and an estate for terme of their liues in those churches of the whych they are such ministers so that by thys meanes the sheepe are not only committed to an idoll shepheard I might say a wolfe and speake no otherwise then Aug. speaketh in that a not preaching minister hath entrance into the church but the dore also is shutte vpon him and sparred against any able minister that might haply be found oute There is a third fault whych likewise appeareth almost in the whole body of this seruice and Liturgie of England and that is that the profit whych might haue come by it vnto the people is not reaped Whereof the cause is for that he whych readeth is not in some places heard and in the most places not vnderstāded of the people through the distance of place betweene the people and the minister so that a great part of the people can not of knowledge tell whether he hathe curssed them or blessed them whether he hath red in Latine or in English all the whych riseth vpon the words of the boke of seruice whych are that the minister should stand in the accustomed place For therevpon the minister in saying morning and euening prayer sitteth in the chauncell wyth hys backe to the people as thoughe he had some secreate talke wyth God whych the people myghte not heare And herevpon it is likewise that after morning prayer for saying a nother number of prayers he climeth vp to the further end of the chauncel and runneth as farre from the people as the wall wil
they declare manifest tokens of vnrepentantnes and then as rotten members that doe not onlye no good nor seruice in the bodye but also corrupt and infect others cut them off And if they do profit in hearing then to be adioyned vnto that church whych is next the place of their dwelling To the fifte in the. 45. page If there be no churches established because there are no christian Magistrates then the churches of the Apostles were not established And it is absurd to say that the ministers nowe wyth the helpe of the magistrate can laye surer foundations of the church or build more cunningly or substancially then the Apostles could whych were the master builders of the church of god And as for the consummation of the body of the church and the beautie of it seeing it consisteth in Iesus Christe whych is the heade that is alwayes ioyned vnseperably in all times of the crosse and not the crosse wyth his body whych is the church I can not see why the churches vnder persecution should not be established hauing bothe the foundation and the nether most partes as also the toppe and hyest parte of the churche as well as those whych haue a christian magistrate If in deede the magistrate whom God hath sanctified to be a nurse vnto his churche were also the head of the same then the church could not be established wythout the magistrate but we learne that although the godly magistrate be the head of the common wealth and a great ornament vnto the church yet he is but a member of the same The churche maye be established wythoute the magistrate and so that all the world and all the Deuilles of hell can not shake it but it can not be in quiet in peace and in outwarde suretie wythout a godly magistrate And therefore the churche in that respecte and suche like praiseth God and prayeth for the magistrate by the whych it enioyeth so singulare benefites Therevppon you conclude that the church was then populare whych is as vntrue as the former parte For the churche is gouerned wyth that kinde of gouernment whych the Philosophers that wryte of the best common wealthes affirme to be the best For in respecte of Christe the heade it is a Monarchie and in respecte of the auncientes and pastoures that gouerne in common and wyth like authoritie amongste them selues it is an Aristocratie or the rule of the best men and in respecte that the people are not secluded but haue their interest in churche matters it is a Democratie or a populare estate An image whereof appeareth also in the pollicye of thys Realme for as in respecte of the Queene her maiestie it is a Monarchie so in respecte of the moste honourable Counsell it is an Aristocratie and hauing regard to the Parliament whych is assembled of al estates it is a Democratie But you should haue shewed howe this difference of hauing a christian magistrate hauing none ought to bryng in a diuersity in the choise of the pastoure by their churche It were not harde if one woulde spende hys time so vnprofitably to finde oute a hundred differences betweene a persecuted church and that whych is in peace but seeing you can shewe me no reason why the church may not chuse her minister as well vnder a godly magistrate as vnder a tyrante I will shewe you howe that if it were lawfull to breake the order of God it were meeter in the time of persecution that the election shoulde be in some other discreate and learned persons hands to be made without the consent of the churche then in that time when there is a godly magistrate and that it is then most conuenient that he should be chosen by the church In the time of persecution a churche chuseth an vnlearned minister or one that is wicked in life howsoeuer it be he is vnfit the churches rounde about by their ministers or elders admonishe this church of her fault and moue to correct it the church will by no meanes be admonished what can nowe the other churches do in the time of persecution if they excommunicate the whole churche it is a hard matter yet if they may do that there is all they can do the euil is not remedied whych may be easely taken awaye where there is a godly magistrate and the churche as is before sayde compelled to a better choyse so you see that there are inconueniences in the chusing of the pastor and other the gouernors of the churche by the churche in the time of persecution whych are not in the time of peace vnder a christian magistrate Now I wil shew you which thinke that the consent of the church in their minister can not stand with the time of a christian magistrate that it hathe not only stode but hath bene cōfirmed in their times and by them In codice Iustiani it is thus wrytten following the doctrine of the holy Apostles c. we ordaine that as often as it shall fall out that the ministers place shall be voyde in any citie that voyces be geuen of the inhabiters of that city that he of three which for their right faith holines of life and other good things are most approued should be chosen to the Byshoprike whych is the moste meete of them Also Carolus Magnus whych was the first Germaine Emperoure in 63. distinct sacrorum canonum sayth being not ignorante of the holy Canons that the holy churche in the name of God should vse her honoure the freelyer we assent vnto the Ecclesiasticall order that the byshops be chosen by election of the cleargye and people according to the statutes of the canons of that diocesse In the. 63. distinction it appeareth that Ludouicus Carolus hys sonne decreed that he should be bishop of Rome whom all the people of Rome should cōsent to chuse Platina also in the life of pope Adrian 2. writeth that Ludouike the seconde by hys letters commaunded the Romaines that they shoulde chuse their owne bishop not loking for other mennes voyces whych being straūgers could not so well tell what was done in the common weale where they were straungers and that it appertained to the Citizens The same Platina witnesseth in the life of Pope Leo the. 8. that whē the people of Rome were earnest with the Emperoure Otho the first that he wold take awaye one Pope Iohn that liued very licentiously and riotously and place an other the same Emperoure answeared that it pertained to the cleargye and people to chuse one and willed them that they shoulde chuse and he woulde approue it and when they had chosen Leo and after put hym out wythout cause and chose one Pope Benet he compelled them to take Leo agayne Whereby appeareth that in those estates where Magistrates were Christian and where the estate was moste of all Monarchicall that is subiecte to ones gouernment that thys vse of the Churche remained and was confirmed by the Emperours and also when the churche put
and yet then there being no christian magistrate whych woulde punishe the disorders whych were committed of the christian byshops there was greatest neede that there shoulde haue bene some one whych might haue had the correction of the rest If therefore when there was moste neede of thys absolute authoritie there neyther was nor myght be anye suche it followeth that nowe we haue a Christian magistrate whych maye and oughte to punishe the disorders of all Ecclesiasticall persons and may and ought to call them to accoumpt for their faultes that there shoulde be no suche neede of an archbyshop The moderation of their authority in the auncient times may appeare first by a Canon whych is falsly geuen to the apostles being as it is like a Canon of the councell of Antioche wherin although it ordaineth one primate in euery nation ouer the rest and will not suffer any great matter to be done wythout him as also will not suffer him to do any thing wythout the rest yet euery B. might do that whych appertained vnto hys own parish wythout hym and he nothing to do wyth hym in it But as it seemeth the meaning of the Canon was that if there were any waighty matter to be concluded for all the churches in the natiō then the byshops of euery parish should not enterprise any thing without calling hym to counsell Now we see that the archb medleth with that whych euery byshop doth in hys owne diocese and hath hys visitations for that purpose will take any matter out of their hands concludeth also of diuers matters neuer making the byshops once priuy to hys doings Higinus or as some thincke Pelagius I speake heere as Platina reporteth not thincking that in Higinus time there was any Metropolitane ordained that no Metropolitane should condemne any byshop onles the matter were first bothe harde and discussed by the byshoppes of that prouince at what time and after a great while a bishop was the same we cal a minister Now the archbyshop will wythout any further assistance or discussion by others suspend hym and in the ende also throwe him oute of hys charge and if he haue the same authority ouer a byshop as a byshop ouer the minister as it is sayd he may do the like vnto hym also The councell of Antioche ordained that if the voyces of the byshops were euen and that if halfe did condemne hym and halfe cleare hym that then the metropolitane byshop shoulde call of the nexte prouince some other byshops whych should make an end of the controuersy Wherby appeareth that the Metropolitane had so small authority and power ouer and aboue the rest that he had not so much as the casting voyce when bothe sides were euen and therefore it appeareth that besides the names of metropolitane there was little or no resemblance betweene those that were then and those whych be now Now to consider how the byshops whych are now differ from the byshops whych were in times past I must call to thy remembrance gentle reader that whych I haue spoken before which was that then there was as appeareth out of Cyprian and Ierome and others one byshop in euery parishe or congregation nowe one is ouer a thousande then euery byshop had a seuerall church where he preached and ministred the sacraments nowe he hath none then he ruled that one churche as I shewed oute of Ierome in common wyth the Elders of the same nowe he ruleth a thousande by hym selfe shutting oute the ministers to whome the rule and gouernement belongeth then he ordained not any minister of the churche except he were first chosen by the presbiterie and approued by the people of that place wherevnto he was ordained nowe he ordaineth where there is no place voyde and of hys priuate authority wythout either choise or approbation of presbyterie or people then he excommunicated not nor receiued the excōmunicated but by sentences of the eldership and consent of the people as shall appeare afterward nowe he dothe bothe And thus you see that contrary to the woorde of God he hathe gotten into hys owne hande and pulled to him selfe bothe the preheminence of the other ministers and the liberties of the church whych God by his word had geuen And as for the offices wherein there is any laboure or trauaile those they haue turned vnto the other ministers as for example in times past it was not lawfull for hym that was then an elder to preache or minister the sacraments in the presence of the byshop because the bishop him selfe should do it and now those which they call elders may preach and minister the sacraments by the byshops good licence although he be present Now if you will also consider how much the Lordship pompe and statelines of the byshops in our dayes differ from the simplicity of them in times past I will geue you also a taste thereof if first of all I shewe the beginning or as it were the fountaine wherevpon the pompe grewe whych was when in steade of hauing a byshop in euery parishe and congregation they began to make a bishop of a whole diocese and of a thousand congregations In an epistle of ʒacharie vnto Pope Boniface it is thus wrytten it hath bene oftentimes decreed that there shoulde not be a byshop appoynted in euerye village or little citie least they should waxe vile through the multitude whereby it bothe appeareth that there was wonte to be a byshop in euery parishe and vpon howe corrupte and euill consideration one byshoppe was sette ouer a whole diocese No doubte those that were authoures of thys had learned too well our olde prouerb the fewer the better cheare but the more byshops the meryer it had bene wyth Gods people And they might wyth as good reason hinder the sunne from shining in al places the raine from falling vpon al grounds for feare they should not be set by being common as to bring in such a wicked decree wherby vnder pretence of deliuering the byshop from contempt they sought nothing else but an ambitious and stately Lordshyp ouer those whych had not that title of bishop that they had althoughe they did the office of a byshop better then they dyd And what intollerable presumption is thys to chaunge the institution of God as though he whych ordained not one only but some nomber more or les of byshops in euery church did not sufficiently foresee that the multitude and plentye of byshops coulde breede no contempt of the office And it may be as well ordained that the children of pore men shoulde not call them that begate them fathers and mothers but only the childrē of the rich and of noble least that if euery man that hathe children shoulde be called a father fathers should be sette nothyng by And heere let vs obserue by what degrees and staires Sathan lifted the childe of perdition vnto that proude title of vniuersall byshop First where the Lorde did ordaine that
in hys Diocese hath the ordering of all matters within the circuite thereof and therfore the meaning of the Councell to bee that if there be any affaires that touche the whole Churche many lande that the Byshoppes shoulde doe nothing without making the Metropolitane priuy as also the Metropolitane myght doe nothing without making the other Byshops a counsell of that which he attempted which maister Doctor doth cleane leaue out And if thys authoritie which the councell geueth to the Metropolitane being nothing so excessiue as the authorytie of our Metropolitanes now had not bene ouer much or had bene iustifiable what needed men father thys Canon which was ordayned in thys councell of the Apostles for the seeking falsly of the name of the Apostles to geue creadite vnto thys Canon doth cary with it a note of euill and of shame which they woulde haue couered as it were with the garment of the Apostles authoritie And in the hundreth twentie and three page to that which Maister Bucer sayeth that in the Churches there hath bene one which hath beene cheefe ouer the rest of the mynisters if he meane one cheefe in euery particulare churche or one cheefe ouer the mynisters of dyuers churches meeting at one Synode and cheefe for the time and for such respectes as I haue before shewed then I am of that mynde which he is And if he meane any other cheefe or after any other sort I deny that any such cheefety was from the Apostles tymes or that any suche cheefetie pleaseth the holye ghoste whereof I haue before shewed the proufes And wheras M. Bucer seemeth to allow that the name of a byshop which the holy ghost expresly geueth to all the ministers of the word indifferently was appropriated to certen cheefe gouernoures of the church I haue before shewed by dyuers reasons how that was not done without great presumption and manifest daunger and in the end great hurt to the church And if M. Doctor delyght thus to oppose mens authoritie to the authoritie of the holy ghost and to the reasons which are grounded out of the scripture M. Caluin doth openly misselyke of the making of that name proper and peculiar to certayne which the holy ghost maketh common to moe And whereas of M. Caluines wordes which sayth that there be degrees of honor in the mynistery M. Doctor would gather an archbyshop if he had vnderstanded that an Apostle is aboue an Euangelist an Euangelist aboue a pastor a pastor aboue a doctor and he aboue an elder that ruleth only he needed neuer to haue gone to the popish Hierarchie to seeke hys dyuersities of degrees which he myght haue founde in S. Paule And whereas vpon M. Caluines words which sayeth that Paule was one of the cheefe amongst the Apostles he would seeme to conclude an archbyshop amongst the byshops he should haue remembred that S. Paules cheeftie amongst the Apostles consisted not in hauing any authoritie or domynion ouer the rest but in labouring and suffering more then the rest and in giftes more excellent then the rest Now where as hee sayeth that we desire to pull the rule from others that the rule myght be in oure handes and we myght doe what we list and that we seeke to wythdraw oure selues from controlement of Prince and Byshoppe and all Firste hee may learne if hee will that wee desire no other authoritie then that which is to the edifying of the church and which is grounded of the word of God which if any mynister shall abuse to hys gayne or ambytion then he ought to abyde not only the controlement of the other mynisters yea of the brethren but also further the punishment of the Magistrates according to the quantitie of the faulte And seeing you charge the brethren so sore you must be put in remembrance that thys vnreasonable authoritie ouer the rest of the mynisters and clergy came to the byshops and archbyshops when as the Pope dyd exempt hys shauelinges from the obedience subiection and iurisdiction of the Princes now therfore that we be ready to geue that subiection vnto the Prince and offer our selues to the Princes correction in things wherein we shall doe a misse doe you thincke it an vnreasonable thing that we desire to bee disburdened of the byshops and archbyshops yoke which the Pope hath layde vpon our neckes And in the. 207. page vnto the middest of the 214. page thys matter is agayne handled where first M. Doctor would draw the place of Galathians the second to proue an archbyshop and that by a false translation for hoi dokountes which is they that seemed or appeared he hath translated they the are the cheefe although the place of the Galathians may be thought of some not so pregnant nor so full agaynst the archbyshop yet all must needes confesse that it maketh more against him then for him For S. Paules purpose is to proue there that he was not inferioure to any of the Apostles bringeth one argument thereof that he had not his gospel from them but from Christ immediatly therfore if the apostles that were estemed most of and supposed by the Galathians others to be the cheefe had no superioritie ouer S. Paule but were equall wyth hym it followeth that there was none that had rule ouer the rest And if there needed no one of the Apostles to be ruler ouer the rest there seemeth to be no neede that one byshoppe should rule ouer the rest But that I run not backe to that I haue handled before I will not heere so much vrge the place as I will not doe also that of the Hebrues which followeth and yet the argument is stronger then that M. Doctor coulde answere For if the wryter to the Hebrues doe proue our sauiour Christes vocation to be iust and lawfull because hys calling was contayned in the scriptures as appeareth in the 5. and 6. verse then it followeth that the calling of the archbishop which is not comprehended there is neither iust nor lawfull For that no man sayth the apostle taketh that honour vnto hym selfe but he that is called of god c. But I say hauing before sufficiently spoken of the reasons which ouerthrow the archbyshoppe I will let passe these and other places answearing only that which M. Doctor bringeth for the establishment of them He sayth therefore afterwarde that although one man be not able to be byshop ouer all the church yet he may be byshop ouer a whole diocese or of a prouince Now if I wold say the one is as impossible as the other for proofe thereof alleage that which the Philosophers say that as there are no degrees in that which is infinite so that of thinges which are infinite one thing can not be more infinite then an other so there are no degrees in impossibilitie that of thinges which are impossible one thyng shoulde bee more impossible then an other If I shoulde thus reason I thincke I shoulde putte you to some payne
amendement And that this was the custome of the churches it may appeare by the. 9. of those canons whych are fathered of the apostles wher it is decreed that all the faithfull that entred into the congregation and heard the scriptures red and dyd not tary out the prayers the holy Communion should be as those whych were causers of disorders in the church seperated from the church or as it is translated of an other depriued of the Communion Also in the councell of Braccara it was decreed that if any entring into the church of God heard the Scriptures and afterward of wantonnes or losenes wythdrewe hym selfe from the communion of the sacrament and so brake the rule of discipline in the reuerende sacraments should be put out of the church till such time as he had by good frutes declared hys repentaunce But heere also may rise an other doubt of the former wordes of Moses in the boke of Numbers for seing that he maketh thys exception if they be cleane it may be sayd that those that depart do not fele themselues mete to receiue and therfore depart the other .iij. or .iiij. or moe feele themselues meete and disposed for that purpose whervpon it may seeme that it is neither reason to compell those to come which feele not themselues meete nor to reiect them that feele that good disposition and preparation in themselues For answer whervnto we must vnderstand that the vncleannes whych Moyses speaketh of was such as men could not easely auoid and whervnto they might fall sometimes by necessary duety as by handling their dead whych they were by the rule of charitye bound to burye sometimes by touching at vnwares a deade body or by sitting in the place where some vncleane body had sitten or by touching such things whych the law iudged vncleane which thing cannot be alleaged in those that are now of the church For as many as be of it and wythall of suche discretion as are able to proue and examine themselues can haue no excuse at all if they may be at the church to withdraw themselues from the holy supper of the lord For if they will say that they be not meete it may be answered vnto them that it is their owne fault and further if they be not meete to receiue the holy sacrament of the supper they are not meete to heare the woord of God they are not meete to be partakers of the prayers of the church and if they be for one they are also for the other For with that boldnes and wyth that duetye or lawfulnes I speake of those whych are of the church and of discretion to examine themselues I say wyth what lawfulnes they may offer themselues to the prayers and to the hearing of the word of God they may also offer themselues vnto the Lordes supper And to whomsoeuer of thē the Lord wil communicate himselfe by preaching the word vnto the same he wil not refuse to communicate himselfe by receiuing of the sacramēts For whosoeuer is of Gods housholde and familye he neede not be afraide to come to the Lords table nor dout but that the Lord will fede him there and whatsoeuer he be that is a membre of the body of Christ may be assured that he receiueth life frō Christ the head as well by the arteries condints of the supper of the Lord as by the preaching of the word of god So that it must needes folow that the not receiuing of those whych depart out of the church whē there is any communion celebrated procedeth either of vaine and superstitious feare growing of grose ignorance of themselues and of the holy sacraments or else of an intollerable negligence or rather contempt of the whych neither the one nor the other shuld be either borne wyth or nourished either by permitting .iij. or .iiij. to communicate alone or els in letting them whych depart go so easely away with so great a fault whych ought to be seuerely punished And vpon thys either contempt or superstitious feare drawne from the papists Lenton preparation of 40. dayes eareshrift displing c. it commeth to pas that men receyuing the supper of the Lord but seldome when they fall sicke must haue the supper ministred vnto them in their houses whych otherwise being once euery weke receiued before should not brede any such vnquietnes in thē when they can not come to receiue it Although as I haue before shewed if they had neuer receiued it before yet that priuate receiuing were not at any hand to be suffered And thus hauing declared what I thinke to be faulty in the communion boke in thys poynt and the reasons why and wyth all answeared to that whych eyther M. doctor alleageth in thys place of the. 80. and. 81. and likewise in the. 152. 185. pages touching thys matter I come now vnto that whych is called the Iewishe purifying by the admonition and by the seruice boke afore time the purification of women Now to the churching of women in the which title yet kept there seemeth to be hid a great part of the Iewish purification For lyke as in the old law shee that had brought forthe a childe was holden vncleane vntill suche time as shee came to the temple to shew her selfe after shee had brought forthe a man or a woman so thys terme of churching of her canseme to import nothing els thē a banishment as it were a certen excommunication from the church during the space that is betwene the time of her deliuery of her comming vnto y church For what doth els thys churching implie but a restoring her vnto y church whych cā not be without some bar or shutting forth presupposed It is also called the thanks giuing but the principall title whych is the directory of this part of the Liturgie placed in the top of the leafe as the whych the translator best liked of is churching of women To pas by the that it wil haue thē come as nigh the communion table as may be as they came before to y high altare because I had spoken once generally against such ceremonies y of all other is most Iewish approcheth nerest vnto the Iewish purification y she is commaūded to offer accustomed offrings Wherin besides that the very word offring caryeth with it a strong sent suspitiō of a sacrifice especially being vttered simply without any addition it can not be without danger that the boke maketh the custome of the popish church whych was so corrupt to be the rule measure of this offring And although the meaning of the boke is not the it shuld be any offring for sin yet this manner of speaking may be a stūbling stock in the way of y ignorant simple the wicked obstinate therby are confirmed hardned in their corruptions The best which can be answered in this case is the it is for the relief of the minister but thē it shuld be
to be dennes of loyterors and idle persones whylest there are nouryshed there some whych serue for no profitable vse in the church their offyces being suche as bryng no commoditye but rather hurte of whych numbre certen are whych the Admonition speaketh of in the. 224. page some other which hauing charges in other places vnder the coloure of their prebendes there absent them selues from them and that whych they spoyle and rauen in other places there they spend and make good cheare wyth and therfore not wythout good cause called dennes Finally there being nothyng there whych might not be much better applied and to the greater commodity of the churche whylest they myght be turned into colledges where yong men myght be brought vp in good learning made fitte for the seruice of the church and common wealthe the vniuersities being not able to receyue that numbre of scholers wherwyth their neede may be supplyed And where M. Doctor sayth that that whych is spoken of the Queenes maiestyes chappell is worthy rather to be punyshed then confuted if so be that these be abuses the example of them in her maiesties chappell can not be but most daungerous whych wyth all humble submission and reuerence I beseeche her maiesty duely to consider And as for the reasons which M. doctor bringeth to establishe them in the 225. page as that they are necessary whych he doth barely say and that s Aug. alloweth of a Deane and that the authors of the Admonition are instruments of those whych desire the spoile of them and that a man may as well speake against vniuersities colledges as against them I haue answeared before sauing that it is to be feared that colledges in vniuersities if M. doctor may worke y which he goeth about wil shortly be in little better case then those cathedral churches whych not only by hys own example but wyth might and maine and al endeuor possyble goeth about to fill and fraught them wyth Non residences and suche as haue charges of churches in other places whych do no good in the vniuersitye and partly are such as can do none only are pernicious examples of riotous feasting and making greate cheare wyth the prayes and spoyles whych they bryng out of the country to the great hurt of the vniuersity presently and vtter ruine of it hereafter onles spedy remedy be therfore prouided And wher he sayth it is not material although these deanes vicedeanes canons peticanōs prebēdaries c. come from the pope it is as if he shoulde saye that it skilleth not although they come out of the bottomles pit For whatsoeuer commeth from the Pope which is Antichrist commeth first from the deuill and where he addeth thys condition if it be good c. in deede if of the egges of a cockatrice can be made holesome meate to feede with or of a spiders webbe any cloth to couer with all then also may the things that come from the Pope and the Deuill be good profitable and necessary vnto the church And where he sayeth that collegiate churches are of great auncientie he proueth not the auncientie of the cathedrall churches onles he proue that cathedrall and collegiate be all one But I will not sticke wyth hym for so small a matter if our controuersy were of the names of these churches and not of the matter I could be content to graunt hys cause in this poynt as good as antiquitie without the word of God which is nothing but rottennes could make it But for so much as those auncient collegiate churches were no more lyke vnto these which we haue now then things most vnlyke our cathedrall churches haue not so much as thys olde worne cloke of antiquity to hide theyr nakednes and to keepe out the shoure For the collegiate churches in times past were a senate Ecclesiasticall standing of godly learned mynisters elders which gouerned and watched ouer that flocke which was in the citie or towne where suche churches were and for that in suche great cities and townes commonly there were the most learned pastors and auncientes therefore the townes and villages rounde about in hard and difficult causes came and had their resolutions of theyr doubtes at theyr handes euen as also the Lord commaunded in Deuteronomie that when there was any great matter in the countrey which the Leuites in matters pertayning to God and the Iudges in matters pertayning to the common wealth could not discusse that then they should come to Ierusalem where there was a great numbre of Priestes Leuites and learned Iudges of whome they should haue their questions dissolued and thys was the first vse of collegiate churches Afterward the honor which the smaller churches gaue vnto them in asking them counsell they tooke vnto them selues and that which they had by the curtesy and good will proceeding of a reuerent estimation of them they dyd not only take vnto them of right but also possessed them of all authority of hearing and determyning any matters at all And in the ende they came to thys which they are now which is a company that haue strange names and strange offyces vnhearde of of all the purer churches of whome the greatest good that wee can hope of is that they doe no harme For although there be dyuers which doe good yet in respect that they bee Deanes Prebendaries Canons Petycanons c. for my part I see no profite but hurte come to the church by them And where hee sayeth they are rewardes of learning in deede then they should be if they were conuerted vnto the mayntenance and bringing vp of scholers where now for the most part they serue for fat morsels to fill if it might be the gredy appetites of those which otherwyse haue enough to lyue with and for holes and dennes to keepe them in which eyther are vnworthy to be kept at the charge of the church or else whose presence is necessary and duetifull in other places and for the most part vnprofitable there Last of all whereas M. Doctor sayeth that we haue not to follow other churches but rather other churches to follow vs I haue answeared before thys only I adde y they were not counted only false Prophets which taught corrupt doctryne but those which made the people of God beleeue that they were happy when they were not and that their estate was very good when it was corrupt Of the which kynde of false prophecie Ieremy especially doth complayne And therefore onles M. Doctor amend hys speach leaue thys crying peace peace all is wel when there are so many things out of order and that not by the iudgement of the admonition fauorers therof only but euē of al which are not willingly blind I say if he do not amend these speches the crime of false prophesy will sit closer vnto him thē he shal be euer able to shake of in the terrible day of the lord The next section I haue answeared in the treatise
But it is true that he that is once ouer the shoes sticketh not to run ouer hys bootes And last of all to proue that byshoppes may haue prisons hee citeth Peter which punyshed Ananias and Saphira with death M. Doctor must vnderstand that thys was Ecclesiasticall power and was done by vertue of that function which S. Paule calleth dynamin which is one of those functions that the Lord placed in hys church for a tyme But is thys a good argument because S. Peter punished with the word therefore the mynister may punyshe with the sworde And because S. Peter dyd so once therefore the byshop may doe so alway because S. Peter dyd that which appertayneth to no ciuill magistrate and which no ciuill magistrate by any meanes may or can doe therefore the mynister may doe that which appertayneth vnto the ciuill magistrate For if there had bene a ciuill magistrate the same could not haue punyshed thys fault of dissimulation which was not knowen nor declared it selfe by any outwarde action So that if thys example proue any thing it proueth that the mynister may doe that no man may doe but the Lord only which is to punysh faultes that are hyd and vnknowne If thys be ignoraunce it is very grosse if it be agaynst knowledge it is more daungerous I haue determyned with my selfe to leaue vnto M. Doctor hys outcries and declamations and if I should haue vsed them as often as he geueth occasion there would be no end of wryting The Lord geue M. Doctor eyther better knowledge or better conscience Vnto M. Doctor asking where it appeareth that pope Eugenius brought in prysons into the church as also vnto three or foure such like demaunds which hee maketh in thys booke the authors of the Admonition answeare at once that thys and the other are sounde in Pantaleon and M. Bales Chronicles Heere I will take in that whych the byshop of Salesbury hath in the last page of hys halfe sheete touching thys matter And first of all I wel agree that he sayth that to geue vnto sathan which is to excommunicate and to correct an Ecclesiasticall person by reprehensyon or putting hym out of the ministerye if the case so require is meere ecclesiasticall and not ciuill and that those thyngs ought to be done of the offycers of the church Thys only I deny that the ministers ought to meddle wyth ciuill offyces For proofe whereof the B. alledgeth the example of Augustine whych as Possidonius wryteth was troubled wyth the hearing determinyng of causes Wherin Possidonius sayeth nothyng but that I willingly agree vnto For the minister wyth the elders ought bothe to heare and determine of causes but of suche causes as pertaine vnto their knowledge whereof I haue spoken before And that Possidonius ment such causes as belonged vnto Augustin as he was a minister and not of ciuill affaires it appeareth by that whych he wryteth immediatly after where he sayth Being also consulted of by certen in their worldly affaires he wrote epistles to diuers but he accompted of thys as of compulsyon and restraint from hys better busynesses whereby it appeareth that S. Augustine medled not wyth those worldly affaires further then by waye of giuing counsell whych is not vnlawful for a minister to do as one friend vnto an other so that hys mynisterye be not thereby hindered And for the truthe of thys matter that ministers ought not to meddle wyth ciuill affaires I will appeale to no other then to the byshop hym selfe who dothe affirme plainly the same that the admonition heere affirmeth And therfore I conclude that for so much as bothe the holy scriptures doe teache that ministers oughte not to meddle wyth ciuill offyces and reason and the practise of the church doe confirme it that they ought to kepe thēselues within the limites of the ministerye and Ecclesiasticall functions least whilest they breake forthe into the calling of a magistrate in steade of shewing themselues episcopous that is ouerseers they be found to declare themselues * allotriopiscopous that is busy bodyes medling in thyngs whych belong not vnto them And thus putting them in remembrance of that whych they knowe well enoughe that they ought cosman sparten hen elachon that is to say studye to adorne that charge whych they take in hande and doe professe I leaue to speake any further of thys matter Vnto the two next sections I haue spoken in that whych hathe bene sayde touchyng excommunication canons and prebendaries c. and vnto that whych is contained in the. 226. and. 227. I answere that I can not excuse couetous patrones of benefices but couetous parsons and vicars be a great plague vnto this church and one of the principall causes of rude and ignorant people Lykewise vnto the two next sectiōs I haue answeared before in speaking against the spirituall courts whych are now vsed and vnto the next after that in speaking of the ordayning of ministers And vnto that whych is contained in the later ende of the. 234. and the beginning of the. 235. I say that the church shall iudge of the aptnes or vnaptnes of our reasons and albeit we do finde fault with diuers thyngs in the booke yet we neyther oppugne as enemyes nor are by the grace of God eyther Papists Anabaptists Atheists or Puretanes as it pleaseth M. Doctor to call vs And to the prayer agaynst disturbers of the churche I say wyth all my heart Amen Vnto the next section I haue answeared in the treatise of the apparell And vnto the next after in the treatise whych declareth to whome it doth appertaine to make ceremonyes and orders of the church And vnto the section contained in the. 243. page I say that M. Doctor being asked of Oynions answeareth of garlike For the authors of the admonition desyring that it myght be as lawful for them to publishe by Printe their mindes or to be heard dispute or that theyr minde put in wryting myghte be openly debated maister D. answeareth wyth Augustines sentence whych he hath made the foote of hys song nothing to the purpose of that whych they said the performance of which promise we wil notwythstanding wayte for Vnto the section contayned in the. 245. and. 246. pages HEre maister Doctor contrary to the protestation of the authors of the Admonition whych declare that for the abuses and corruptions they dare not simply subscribe sayth that therfore they will not subscribe because they are required by lawfull authoritye Whych howe bothe presumptuous and vncharitable a iudgement it is let all men iudge especially vpon this matter whych hath bene declared And where maister Doctor wold vpon the marginall note proue that we haue good discipline because we haue good doctrine and thervpon doth wonderfully tryumphe he playeth as he of whome it is sayde meden labon cratei carteros that is hauyng gotten nothyng holdeth it fast For can M. doctor be so ignorant that thys manner of speach doctrine and discipline