of discipline these are not to be required in a persecuted Church Some were proper for a time and then ceased as working of miracles and diuers other functions of the spirite Some are neuer necessary in the Church as succession of Bishops vniformitie in ceremonies c. But of all these notes there is not one that is proper to the Church of Rome for she hath not alwaies practised open preaching and neuer preached the worde of truth she hath conuerted but few nations to her Religion from Gentilitie and them rather by warre than by preaching she neuer had sence she first arose the ministring of sacraments according to Christ his institutiō she hath hard matters in controuersie not for furtherance of Iustice but for loue of money Her iudiciarie power may be dispensed withall for money She hath had no orderly succession of Bishops except an hore be an orderly Bishop of the Church of Rome And except so many schismes as they write of be orderly successions she hath not vniformitie in all ceremonies for diuerse nations and diuerse Churches in these nations haue diuers ceremonies as Sarum Yorke Bangor c. in England she hath not vnitie in faith for it is not yet determined of one of the greatest articles of Popish faith whether the Pope be aboue the church she hath no holy functions of God his spirite but prophane vsages of mens inuentions she hath no true miracles but the power of Antichrist in lying signes and wonders She hath nothing lesse then the true sense of God his worde which submitteth the same to her owne corrupt and changeable iudgement She is not bewtified with estates commended in Scripture as Apostles Euangelists Prophets Pastors and Teachers but with Popes Cardinalls Monkes Chanons Fryers c. In steede of virgines she hath filthy strumpets her Nunnes or else such foolish virgines as bring no oyle in their lampes she hath no Martyrs but obstinate traytors as Becket Fisher More c. she hath no confessors of trueth though she haue ten thousand mainteyners of salshood and lyes Wherfore if these be the notes of the Catholike Church the Church of Rome can in no wise be that same 3 Proue vnto me that this is not the true Church or that we be not bound to obey this Church and no other in all controuersies and doubtes raysed either by the difficultie of the Scripture or by the vayne contention pride of heresie and I recant I Haue proued euen immediatly before that not one of those notes which you count to be markes of the true Church is proper to your Church And therefore it is not the truth neither ought it to be obeyed in any thing And as for doubtes that arise by difficultie of Scripture or contention of heresie must be resolued and determined as it is abundantly declared before onely by the Scriptures for the hard places of the Scripture must be opened by easie places and heretikes must be confuted by the Scriptures for there is neuer heresie but there is as great doubt of the Church as of the matter in question onely the Scripture is the stay of a Christian mans conscience which I woulde wish that you would truely embrace and recant The 27. article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 Moreouer let any man proue vnto me that the true onely Church of God may at any time be voyd of God his spirite THe true and onely Church of Christ can neuer be voyd of God his spirite and yet she may erre from the truth and be deceiued in some thinges euen as there is no true Christian man that is voyd of God his spirite for he that hath not the spirite of Christ is none of his Rom. 8. yet may euery true Christian erre and be deceaued in some things according to the saying of the Scripture euery man is a lyar Wherefore the whole Church militant consisting of men which are all lyars may erre all togither as euery part thereof although neither the whole Church nor any true member thereof be voyd of God his spirite 2 Or falsely interprete any sentence of holy Scripture THis gentle offer must needes be taken I will proue vnto you that the church of Rome hath falsely interpreted diuers sentences of scripture and therefore by that which she hath done it cannot be doubted but that she may do it S. Augustine was in this error that he thought Infantes must receiue the sacrament of the body and bloude of Christ vnder paine of damnation and was deceiued by false interpretation of this scripture Except ye eate the fleshe of the Sonne of man and drinke his bloude c. Ioan. 6. This error and false interpretation he affirmeth to be common to all the Westerne church to Pope Innocent him selfe Contra duas epist. Pelag. ad Bonifacium lib. 2. cap. 4. cōtra Iulianum lib. 1. cap. 2. Furthermore the second Councell of Nice how many textes of scripture doth it falsely interprete which it were to tedious to repete yet for examples sake I will reherse some of them God made man to his owne image Gen. 1. therefore we must haue images in the church No man lighteth a candle and setteth it vnder a bushell Math. 5. therefore images must be set vpon the altars As we haue heard so we haue seene in the City of our God Psal. 48. that is God must not be knowen by onely hearing of his worde but also by sight of images If these be not true interpretations I reporte me to you Beside these I will bring you a sentence of holy Scripture not onely falsely interpreted in sence but also falsified in wordes and concerning not a small matter but euen one of the cheefe articles of our Faith. It is written in the 10. chapter of the Gospell after S. Iohn the 29. verse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 My Father which gaue thē vnto me speaking of his sheep is greater than all This sentence hath the Councell of Laterane holden vnder Pope Innocent the 3. where were present 70. Metropolitanes 400. Bishops 12. Abbates and 800. Priors commentualles in all 1300. Prelats falsified in wordes after this maner Pater quod dedit mihi maius est omnibus that is That which the Father hath geuen me is greater than all This sentence they alleage to proue that God the Father begetting his Sonne from euerlasting gaue his owne substance vnto him the wordes be in the 2. Canon Pater enim ab aeterno filium generando suam substantiam ei dedit iuxta quod ipse testatur Pater quod dedit mihi maius est omnibus At dici non potest quod partem suae substantiae illi dederit partem retinuerit ipse sibi cum substantia Patris indiuisibilis sit c. that is to say For the Father begetting his sonne from euerlasting gaue him his owne substance according as he himselfe witnesseth that which the Father gaue me is greater than all But it can not be said that he gaue
him part of his substance and kept parte vnto him selfe when as the substance of the Father is indiuisible c. Goe your wayes now and perswade vs that your church can not interprete any sentence of the scripture falsely when the Laterane Councell which is your represented church hath thus both falsefied and falsely interpreted this scripture Perswade men that they may safely leane to the interpretation of your church when among a thousand and three hundred Prelates gathered canonically in a Councell not one was founde that coulde espie such grosse abusing of the worde of God but let it passe in a Canon vnder the name of the whole Councell Perswade men that in all controuersies condemning of errors they must be ruled by the determination of your Church When the Fathers of the Laterane Councell can not confute the error of Ioachim Abbot concerning the Diuinitie of Christ but by falsefying and false interpreting of scripture These few examples of an infinite numbre I haue set forth because they are sufficient both to satisfie your chalenge and to perswade the simple that the church of Rome may falsely interprete the scripture which you woulde beare them in hande were impossible 3 Or induce any error among the people THe true and onely church of God is so guided by God his spirite and directed by his worde that she can not induce any damnable error to continue Yet as it is declared before she hath no such priuilege graunted but that she may be deceiued in some thinges for her knowledge is vnperfect and her prophecying is vnperfect 1. Cor. 13. And it is true that S. Augustine sayeth euen the whole church is taught to saye Forgeue vs our trespasses And if generall Councells be the church represented as you Papistes doe teache S. Augustine plainely affirmeth that they may erre De Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. Quis autem nesciat sanctam scripturam Canonicam tam veteris quam noui Testamenti c. And who knoweth not that the holy Canonicall scripture as well of the olde as of the newe Testament is conteined within her certeine boundes and that it is so preferred before all later writinges of byshops that of it no man may in any wise doubt or dispute whether it be true or whether it be right what so euer is knowen to be written therin and that the writings of bishops which haue bene written or are now in writinge maye be reprehended if they haue gonne astraie any thing from the trueth both by the saying that is perhaps more wise of any man that is more skilfull in that matter and by the more graue authoritie and wisedom of other better learned bishops and also by Councells and that euen those Councells which are gathered in euery region or prouince ought to geue place without all doubt to the authoritie of the generall Councells which are gathered out of all the Christian worlde and that euen the very generall Councells may often be amended the former by the later when as by any triall of thinges that is opened which before was shut and that is knowen which before was hidden without any swelling of wicked pride without any stubbernesse of arrogance without any contention of peuishe enuie with holy Humility with Catholike peace with Christian charity Thus farre S. Augustine which cleerely affirmeth that generall Councells may often erre which maye often be amended but that the authority of God his worde is to be preferred before the writings of all Doctors and Decrees of all Councells and that it onely can not erre The Councell of Carthage the 3. ca. 23. determined that all prayers at the altar shoulde be directed onely to the Father and not to the Sonne or the holy Ghost whether this be an error to define that it is vnlawfull to pray to God the Sonne and God the holy Ghost let euery man iudge But you will except that this was a prouinciall Synode and not a generall Councell But I aunswere you it hath the authoritie of a generall Councell because it was confirmed in the sixt generall Councell holden at Constantinople in Trullo And as for the Popish church that it maye erre what neede we better proofe than the prayer which it maketh after the ending of euery generall Councell Precamur scilicet vt ignorantiae parcas errori indulgeas that is we praye truely that thou wouldest spare our ignorance pardō our error And againe Et quia conscientia remordente tabescimus ne aut ignorantia nos traxerit in errorem aut praeceps forsitan voluntas impulerit a Iustitia declinare ob hoc te poscimus te rogamus vt si quid offensionis in hac Concilij celebritate attraximus condonare remissibile facere digneris that is And because we are greued with remorce of conscience lest either ignorance haue drawen vs into error or perhaps rash will hath driuen vs to decline from Iustice therefore we praye thee we beseech thee that if we haue drawen vnto vs any offence in the celebration of this Councell thou wouldest vouche safe to pardon and to make it remissible c. If it be impossible for the generall Councell to erre what neede they pray to God to pardon their error and when their owne conscience condemneth them and compelleth them to confesse and that before God that they may erre what impudence is it in any man to contend that they can not erre Furthermore the second Councell of Nice determined that Angels and soules of men had bodies were visible and circumscriptible and therefore might be painted and this it affirmeth to be the iudgement of the Catholike church Con. Nice 2. Actione 5. If this be not to induce an error to make men beleue that Angells and spirites haue bodies visible and circumscriptible there was neuer anye error sence the worlde beganne Finally when they say the Pope can not erre they acknowledge that such generall Councells as condemned Popes for heretikes did erre as the sixt generall Councell of Constantinople in Trullo which condemned and accursed Pope Honorius for an heretike Actione 13. Euen as Pope Leo the 2. did also as appeareth in his epistle to the Emperour Constantine Also the Councell of Constance did erre which condemned Pope Iohn the 23. for denying the immortality of the soule and the resurrection of the body Session 11. which Councell Pope Iohn him selfe affirmed to be most holy and that it coulde not erre Session 12. And the Councell of Basile did erre which deposed Pope Eugenius the 4. Session 34. the same Councell being confirmed by Pope Nicolas the 5. Session 43. If you say these two last Councells did not erre in condemning and deposing these Popes Then the great generall and OEcumenicall Councell of Ferraria and Florence did erre in disallowing the determination of these Councells Thus it is manifest that the Romish church which they them selues confesse to be represented in a generall Councell may erre which hath so often
preserued vntil God should reueale Antichrist and bring her againe into open light which his holy name be praysed is now brought to passe in our dayes to our inestimable comfort and his euerlasting glory 3 And if it can be proued that either the Protestants Church or any other Church but ours hath mightely ouerthrowne these foresayd sectes and other of all sortes I recant IT hath bene already proued sufficiently that the true Catholike Church which is ledde onely by the worde of God as a most infallible rule hath ouerthrowne heresies of all sortes But the popish church which refuseth the only weapon by which heresies are cut downe to be sufficient for that purpose neuer was nor shall be strong enough to encounter with heretikes therefore she practiseth to vanquish those whom she counteth for heretikes not by authoritie of the Scriptures but by fire and sworde and cruell warre as appeareth by her dealing with the Waldenses Albigenses Bohemians and in our dayes with the true Christians But where her power of fire and sword could not preuayle there hath she not ouerthrowne such as she condemneth for heretikes namely the Grecians church all other churches of Asia and Aphrica which vnto this day will not acknowledge her doctrine to be Catholike nor her authoritie to be lawefull Wherefore seeing the Popish church neither hath confuted those that are heretikes in deed nor subdued those whom she counteth to be heretikes if you be as good as your worde you recant The fiueth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 Againe what Church is that which hath exercised by Christes appointement Discipline vpon offendors in all degrees ONely the Church of Christ by Christes appointement hath exercised true discipline vpon offendors Although by meanes of persecution she could not alwayes practise the same as she would 2 And for that purpose hath continually executed lawes and Canons Ecclesiasticall with Excommunication Degradation suspension and such like THe Church of Christ only hath had lawful authority to exercise discipline but as it is said before she hath not continually practised the same because she could not being hindered by persecution and dispersion Concerning excommunication she hath practised it according to the word of God and against such offendors as the scripture iudgeth worthy of that seuere punishment As for degradation and suspension it may be doubted what you meane by them if you vnderstand by degradation that such persons as the Church hath tried vnmeet either for doctrine or manners to execute the office of preaching and ministring the sacraments she hath displaced and reiected from that charge she hath also practised drgradation And if you meane by suspension that when the accusation of a mans doctrine or life was vncerteine that she hath willed him to cease from executing his office vntill his cause were tried either good or euill she hath also vsed suspension but if by degradation and suspension you meane those foolish and wicked ceremonies which the popish church now vseth and so termeth I deny that euer the true Church of Christ had to do with such degradations and suspensions 3 Proue me this geere to procede from Protestants or from any other Church than the Catholike and I recant IT is proued before that true discipline belongeth to the true Church wherof we are a part which Church is sufficiently proued to be the spouse of Christ because she is ruled in all thinges by his onely voice And therefore all congregations of heretikes which departe from the true worde of God though they take vpon them to exercise discipline by excommunication or otherwise it is not to be regarded and lest of all the Popish church where remaineth nothing of discipline and excommunication but the very names for what call you popish discipline is not that it which they vse in Lent whisking men on the heades and women on the handes with white roddes which they them selues call discipline Or is it the seuere punishment that they vse against offendors by excommunication suspension interdighting c. First it is manifest they haue no excommunication by Christes appointment for neither it is executed by the persons appointed by Gods worde nor against such offendors only as God his word appointeth for wheras our Sauiour Christ appointeth the order of that discipline to the Congregation of such as are wise godly and carefull of mens health which first shal labor by fatherly admonition and wholesome exhortation to bring the offendors to repentance whome if they refuse to heare they are to be reputed for hethens and publicanes the Pope contrariwise referreth the same to profane and vnreligious officers which are more desirous to gaine the fees of absolution than by bringing the party to repentance to saue him from excommunication Moreouer whereas by Gods worde excommunication is the last and most greuous punishment that the Church can enioyne against any of whom there is any hope of saluation and therefore ought not to be practised but for haynous offences the Popish church maketh it serue for euery trifling matter yea for pettie debts and all then commeth in interdightings suspensions of places as churches and townes yea whole realmes for one mans faulte what likelinesse hath this vnto the discipline of Christes church set forth in the scriptures and practised by the fathers with what face can you Papistes affirme they haue discipline in their Church whē all penaunces for most horrible offences may be bought out for money and an open market thereof set vp at Rome with the prices rated what men must pay for euery thing that they buye as absolution for him that hath killed his father or mother brother sister or wife Turones 4. Ducat 1. Ca. line 5.8 For an heretike before he haue abiured 36. Turones and 9. ducates For a witche 6. Turones 2. ducates For a priest that is a Sodomite or hath lyen with brute beastes 36. Turones 9. ducates For a nonne that hath bene a common whore both within and without her Abby with dispensation that she may be able to receiue any dignitie in her order yea to be Abbesse 36. Turones 9. ducates And so for all other offences with dispensations inhibitions rehabilities licences relaxations commutations confirmation perinde Valeres Marcamas and the deuill and all for money wherefore except you be to impudent to acknowledge this to be Christian discipline be as good as your promise and recant The sixth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 Againe from what Church did all the solemne ceremonies and obseruations all festiuall dayes all fastes all distinctions and varieties of seruice by diuersities of seasons and times of the yeare proceede FIrst you must vnderstande that we detest and abhorre all your beggarly ceremonies which you counte holy and solemne obseruations for we know that God is not to be worshipped with such thinges but that the true worshippers must worship him in spirit veritie Iohn 4. And seeing we know God or rather are knowen of him we will not regarde the
succession according to persons or places you are neuer able to proue that any such thing was promised to the Church that we should shew you the performance there of in our Church Otherwise we doubt not but God hath alway stirred vp some faithfull teachers that haue instructed his Church in the necessarie poinctes of Christian Religion Although the worlde and the church of Antichrist did not alwayes see them 2 And is able to name you by the histories of all ages the notable personnes of all the forsaide states in their gouernment and ministerie A Gaine I answere you that you are not able to name me any text of scripture by which you can proue that al these offices must haue perpetual cōtinuance in the church of Christ nor yet that any of them should kepe an ordinarie succession of place or persons But contrariwise seeing it was prophecied that the church should flie into the wildernes that is be driuen out of the sight and knowledge of the wicked and be so narrowly persecuted of the Romish Antichrist for a longe season it were a token our church were not the true church if we could name such notable persons as you speake of in all ages florishing in their gouernment and ministerie And it is a good argument that the Popish church is not the church of Christe because it was neuer hidden sence it first sprang vp in so much that you can name all the notable persons in all ages in their gouernment and ministerie and especially the succession of Popes you can reherse in order vpon your fingers in which beadroole neuerthelesse you must name many tyrants many traytors one whore many whoremongers many Sodomites many murtherers many poysenors many sorcerers and Necromancers and from Boniface the third all blasphemous heretikes and Antichristes But our church which hath not had so many registers chroniclers and remembrancers hath perhaps fewer but yet honester men to name we can name Peter Paule Mathew Iohn c. Marke Luke Timothe Agabus Epaphras c. Instinus Irenaeus Cyprianus Athanasius Hylarius Ambrosius Augustinus c. Gyldas Bertramus Marsilius de Padua Ioan. de Ganduno Bruno Andagauensis VVickleue Iohn Hus Hierome of Prage c. With the first namely Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets we consent wholly in all pointes of doctrine with the rest in the cheefe and most substantiall articles of faith alwayes agreeing with any man so farre as he agreeth with the worde of God. 3 And if he can proue vnto me that their Church hath neuer lacked the same appointed officers or that any Church or Congregatiō but ours hath kept that charge thē I recant FOr some of those officers I haue twise aunswered before that they were not ordeined to continue alwaies with the church wherefore they are not to be exacted of vs but such officers as are necessary for the conseruation of God his people in the vnitie of faith and the knowledge of Christ our Church hath neuer lacked although in time of the great defection and Apostasie whereof S. Paule doth prophesie 2. thess. 2. there were but few as there were but fewe members of Christ his Church notwithstanding that through iniurie of the time the remembraunce of all their names is not come vnto vs And although we could rehearse in order as many successions in our Church as the papistes boast of in theirs yet were that nothing to proue it to be the Church of Christ which must be tried onely by the Scriptures as S. Augustine sayth in his booke de vnitate Ecclesiae against the Donatistes cap. 16. Sed vtrum ipsi Ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum Scripturarum canonicis libris ostendant quia nec nos propterea dicimus nobis credere oportere quod Ecclesiae sumus quia ipsam quam tenemus commendauit Mileuitanus Optatus vel Mediolanensis Ambrosius vel alij innumerabiles nostrae communionis Episcopi c. But whether they holde the Church or no let them shew none otherwise but by the canonicall bookes of holy Scripture for we our selues doe not therefore say that men must beleeue vs that we are in the Church because we hold the same Churche which Optatus of Mileuitum hath commended or Ambrose of Millayn or innumerable Bishops of our communion Euen so we require at the Papistes handes that shewe them selues to holde the Church not by succession of Bishops or rehearsing of their names but onely by the Scriptures for although we did rehearse innumerable names of Bishops in orderly succession on our side we would not require men to beleue vs but onely because we proue the doctrine of our Church by the authoritie of the Scriptures But as for the popish church neyther hath nor euer had any of those officers which S. Paule speaketh of for Apostles Euangelistes and Prophets she can chalenge by no reason seing she refuseth to be tried by their doctrine vttered in their writings in steede of pastors reachers she hath wolues dūme dogges or false prophets which either teach not at all or else teach the doctrine of deuills the dreames of men And further I would desire none other place in all the Scripture to ouerthrow the popish Hierarchie which is the greatest glory of their Church then this place of Paule Ephes 4. he speaketh of Apostles Euangelists Prophets Pastors and teachers But where are Popes Cardinalls popish archbishops Bishops Preestes Deacōs Subdeacons Exorcistes Cantors Acolyts Ostiares Monkes Friars Chanōs Nunnes c. Wherfore I cōclude that all these popish orders are no offices in the Church of Christ And especially seeing the Apostle both in this place Eph. 4. and 1. Cor. 12. by these offices proueth the vnitie of minde he acknowledgeth no Pope as one supreme head in earth which might be very profitable as the Papists say to mainteine this vnity for if there had bene any such office appoynted of God S. Paule in no wise woulde haue omitted it especially when it made so notably for the confirmation of his purpose which was vnitie To conclude if it be sufficient or any thing worth to rehearse the names of them that haue orderly succeded in all ages in the bishops sees in an outwarde face of the Church the Greeke Church is able to name as many as the Latine Church and in as orderly succession Wherefore if you be as ready to performe as to promise you recant The nynth article may be deuided into nyne demaundes 1 And for the necessary vse and execution of the foresayd offices they must further be asked what Sacramentes the Protestants ministred for the space of a thousand yeares togither in which they confesse their congregations to haue bene neare or else wholy hidden THey ministred those Sacramentes which Christ did institute namely the Sacrament of baptisme and the Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ at such times as the cruell tyrannie of you Papistes did not hinder them to come togither for such purposes 2 VVhat correction they kept and discipline