to_o we_o or_o ever_o say_v word_n in_o proof_n that_o the_o case_n be_v the_o same_o i_o may_v with_o as_o much_o reason_n out_o of_o this_o story_n of_o redwalde_n say_v as_o much_o of_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v that_o he_o and_o his_o protestant_n have_v build_v a_o new_a church_n a_o new_a faith_n erect_v a_o altar_n against_o a_o altar_n etc._n etc._n 3._o but_o as_o i_o be_v say_v of_o his_o author_n they_o be_v not_o many_o as_o you_o see_v much_o less_o have_v they_o any_o part_n among_o catholic_n for_o cassander_n michael_n de_fw-fr caesenas_n and_o philip_n morney_n be_v in_o the_o index_n of_o forbid_a book_n camden_n and_o his_o english_a canon_n writer_n be_v protestant_n but_o which_o be_v more_o strange_a not_o a_o man_n of_o these_o such_o as_o they_o be_v that_o say_v any_o thing_n of_o that_o which_o he_o pretend_v in_o the_o title_n of_o his_o chapter_n but_o only_o cassander_n who_o after_o the_o fashion_n of_o haretique_n speak_v of_o the_o pomp_n and_o pride_n of_o the_o clergy_n and_o that_o they_o will_v not_o hearken_v to_o the_o admonition_n of_o some_o godly_a man_n advise_v reformation_n these_o godly_a man_n he_o mean_v such_o as_o himself_o that_o be_v haeretique_n or_o next_o door_n to_o they_o though_o sir_n humphrey_n please_v often_o to_o call_v he_o a_o learned_a romanist_n so_o that_o all_o the_o cause_n that_o even_o this_o man_n allege_v of_o the_o contention_n be_v because_o the_o ecclesiastical_a person_n will_v not_o yield_v themselves_o to_o haeretique_n and_o let_v they_o have_v the_o order_n and_o dispose_n of_o all_o thing_n at_o their_o pleasure_n therefore_o they_o break_v away_o and_o fall_v into_o contention_n with_o the_o church_n what_o cause_n do_v clergy_n man_n give_v of_o contention_n in_o not_o submit_v themselves_o to_o their_o inferior_n and_o to_o man_n that_o have_v no_o authority_n over_o they_o or_o even_o if_o the_o counsel_n of_o these_o people_n be_v good_a as_o it_o be_v not_o and_o that_o clergy_n man_n think_v not_o good_a to_o follow_v it_o must_v they_o therefore_o present_o fall_v to_o schism_n and_o haeresy_n tear_v and_o rent_v the_o church_n by_o what_o law_n be_v clergy_n man_n bind_v to_o obey_v such_o fellow_n if_o in_o a_o civil_a commonwealth_n some_o great_a man_n shall_v dislike_v the_o government_n either_o because_o his_o enemy_n have_v the_o manage_n of_o matter_n or_o that_o he_o thimk_v he_o can_v do_v it_o better_o than_o they_o and_o presume_v to_o give_v counsel_n to_o the_o prince_n and_o his_o counsel_n they_o shoull_n not_o follow_v it_o and_o that_o therefore_o he_o shall_v go_v from_o court_n make_v head_n and_o raise_v a_o rebellion_n in_o the_o common_a wealth_n who_o shall_v be_v count_v cause_n of_o this_o contention_n the_o prince_n and_o his_o counsel_n or_o he_o if_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v judge_n he_o must_v say_v the_o prince_n and_o his_o counsel_n if_o he_o will_v make_v good_a his_o man_n cassander_n discourse_n 4._o as_o for_o michael_n de_fw-fr caesena_n who_o the_o knight_n also_o call_v a_o learned_a friar_n it_o be_v true_a he_o be_v a_o friar_n and_o general_n of_o his_o order_n but_o for_o his_o learning_n i_o never_o hear_v any_o such_o commendation_n of_o it_o but_o we_o know_v why_o the_o knight_n praise_v he_o well_o be_v it_o so_o but_o the_o man_n be_v excommunicate_v and_o depose_v by_o the_o pope_n for_o his_o disobedience_n and_o rebellion_n he_o say_v that_o particular_a man_n which_o be_v john_n 22._o be_v a_o apostata_fw-la and_o a_o heretic_n and_o therefore_o no_o true_a pope_n but_o that_o he_o make_v two_o such_o church_n one_o of_o the_o wicked_a under_o the_o pope_n another_o of_o the_o good_a without_o any_o head_n as_o morney_n make_v he_o make_v and_o this_o knight_n out_o of_o he_o i_o find_v not_o in_o any_o good_a author_n but_o rather_o that_o he_o allow_v of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o he_o appeal_v from_o the_o pope_n sentence_n to_o it_o as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o coquus_fw-la his_o answer_n to_o morney_n mystery_n of_o iniquity_n pag._n 205._o to_o 2._o and_o in_o the_o table_n verbo_fw-la michael_n de_fw-fr coesena_n neither_o be_v he_o ever_o tax_v with_o any_o such_o haeresy_n 5._o his_o english_a church-canon_n command_v nothing_o to_o be_v teach_v as_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o what_o be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n and_o be_v collect_v out_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o catholic_a bishop_n but_o what_o be_v that_o to_o the_o purpose_n how_o do_v this_o prove_v we_o to_o give_v the_o cause_n of_o contention_n he_o will_v say_v this_o prove_v his_o man_n to_o give_v none_o i_o answer_v that_o if_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o their_o canon_n and_o proceed_n be_v answerable_a to_o the_o say_n of_o this_o canon_n there_o will_v perhaps_o be_v somewhat_o less_o to_o do_v though_o it_o be_v not_o any_o way_n conformable_a to_o the_o scripture_n and_o doctrine_n of_o father_n for_o lay_v authority_n to_o make_v canon_n for_o clergy_n man_n and_o therefore_o the_o practice_n show_v in_o this_o canon_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o word_n and_o so_o the_o 2._o section_n be_v answer_v 6._o the_o three_o section_n be_v of_o corruption_n both_o in_o faith_n and_o manner_n which_o the_o knight_n say_v we_o confess_v and_o yet_o deny_v to_o reform_v he_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o council_n of_o pisa_n where_o alexander_n the_o 5._o 20._o council_n pisan_n sess_v 20._o promise_v to_o attend_v to_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n and_o out_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n acknowledge_v many_o thing_n amiss_o in_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n mass_n etc._n etc._n to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o matter_n of_o manner_n we_o willing_o acknowledge_v reformation_n to_o be_v needful_a and_o such_o it_o be_v that_o these_o two_o counsel_n speak_v of_o and_o have_v perform_v as_o be_v to_o beseene_v by_o their_o decree_n though_o the_o former_a be_v not_o of_o any_o great_a authority_n reformat_fw-la council_n trident_n sess_v 22._o decret_n de_fw-fr reformat_fw-la and_o for_o the_o late_a it_o complain_v indeed_o with_o great_a reason_n of_o the_o avarice_n of_o such_o as_o have_v the_o gather_n of_o money_n give_v in_o alm_n by_o occasion_n of_o indulgence_n who_o the_o knight_n call_v the_o pope_n collector_n though_o the_o council_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o pope_n but_o he_o out_o of_o his_o love_n to_o the_o pope_n will_v fain_o bring_v he_o in_o upon_o all_o such_o occasion_n this_o be_v true_a but_o false_a it_o be_v which_o he_o say_v that_o the_o council_n complain_v of_o indulgence_n a_o article_n of_o the_o roman_a faith_n as_o his_o word_n be_v for_o as_o it_o reform_v the_o corruption_n of_o the_o officer_n so_o do_v it_o establish_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o doctrine_n as_o appear_v by_o a_o particular_a decree_n thereof_o which_o be_v also_o acknowledge_v and_o cite_v else_o where_o by_o this_o knight_n himself_o whereby_o he_o be_v convince_v of_o wilful_a corruption_n the_o same_o council_n likewise_o complain_v of_o many_o thing_n creep_v in_o in_o the_o celebration_n of_o mass_n by_o the_o fault_n of_o the_o time_n or_o carelessness_n and_o wickedness_n of_o man_n which_o be_v far_o from_o the_o dignity_n of_o so_o great_a a_o sacrifice_n the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n be_v right_o cite_v by_o he_o in_o latin_a in_o the_o margin_n perhaps_o to_o save_v his_o credit_n by_o sincerity_n so_o much_o promise_v in_o his_o epistle_n dedicatory_a but_o in_o the_o english_a which_o go_v in_o the_o text_n he_o foul_o corrupt_v they_o they_o be_v thus_o in_o latin_a cum_fw-la multa_fw-la irrepsisse_fw-la videantur_fw-la which_o in_o english_a be_v this_o see_v many_o thing_n seem_v to_o have_v creep_v in_o which_o the_o knight_n translate_v thus_o there_o be_v many_o error_n and_o corruption_n creep_v in_o to_o the_o mass_n which_o be_v a_o gross_a error_n and_o corruption_n in_o the_o knight_n the_o council_n speak_v only_o of_o abuse_n which_o be_v creep_v in_o not_o of_o error_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n the_o council_n likewise_o seem_v to_o acknowledge_v the_o avarice_n of_o priest_n make_v such_o bargain_n for_o the_o say_n of_o mass_n as_o be_v not_o far_o from_o simony_n or_o at_o least_o filthy_a lucre_n it_o speak_v of_o the_o use_n of_o music_n where_o with_o some_o wantonness_n be_v mix_v as_o alsoe_o of_o certain_a mass_n or_o candle_n use_v in_o certain_a number_n that_o number_n proceed_v rather_o from_o superstition_n then_o true_a religion_n this_o be_v true_a so_o far_o 7._o but_o that_o be_v not_o true_a which_o the_o knight_n say_v that_o we_o deny_v a_o reformation_n of_o these_o thing_n for_o to_o what_o other_o end_n be_v they_o recount_v there_o but_o to_o be_v reform_v nay_o they_o be_v not_o
see_v the_o man_n be_v abominable_a lie_v by_o this_o one_o thing_n may_v give_v a_o guess_n of_o the_o rest_n the_o council_n as_o he_o confess_v in_o the_o beginning_n accurse_v he_o and_o his_o doctrine_n and_o here_o he_o say_v it_o conclude_v with_o a_o well_o wish_v thereunto_o be_v it_o even_o so_o good_a sir_n your_o communion_n be_v allow_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n you_o tell_v we_o news_n i_o pray_v you_o what_o canon_n what_o chapter_n what_o session_n be_v your_o communion_n once_o name_v in_o there_o you_o will_v say_v where_o the_o council_n wish_v that_o the_o people_n that_o hear_v mass_n will_v communicate_v not_o only_o spiritual_o but_o also_o sacramental_o be_v this_o your_o communion_n what_o have_v you_o mass_n sir_n humphrey_n take_v heed_n it_o may_v cost_v you_o money_n a_o informer_n that_o shall_v hear_v this_o may_v catch_v you_o by_o the_o back_n and_o bring_v you_o in_o for_o so_o many_o hundred_o mark_n as_o you_o have_v receive_v bytt_n of_o bread_n in_o your_o church_n which_o true_o may_v prove_v a_o dear_a ordinary_a for_o you_o and_o this_o you_o must_v either_o confess_v or_o let_v alone_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n which_o acknowledge_v no_o communion_n without_o mass_n for_o if_o you_o deny_v your_o service_n to_o be_v mass_n we_o deny_v your_o communion_n to_o be_v communion_n for_o no_o mass_n no_o communion_n therefore_o bethink_v yourself_o whither_o you_o will_v be_v content_a to_o have_v a_o mass_n or_o no_o trent-communion_n and_o while_o you_o stand_v study_v of_o this_o i_o will_v put_v you_o another_o thing_n to_o consider_v of_o which_o be_v this_o that_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n for_o the_o council_n to_o wish_v that_o the_o people_n will_v communicate_v because_o to_o hear_v mass_n and_o receive_v withal_o will_v be_v more_o profitable_a another_o to_o say_v that_o if_o there_o be_v no_o body_n to_o communicate_v or_o that_o such_o mass_n be_v unlawful_a as_o haeretique_n say_v the_o priest_n must_v not_o say_v mass_n what_o think_v you_o sir_n be_v not_o these_o two_o thing_n study_v the_o matter_n a_o while_n and_o tell_v us._n do_v not_o you_o then_o speak_v wondrous_a witty_o when_o you_o say_v that_o there_o come_v blessing_n and_o curse_v out_o of_o the_o same_o mouth_n as_o if_o the_o council_n do_v approve_v and_o condemn_v the_o same_o thing_n when_o it_o commend_v sacramental_a communion_n of_o the_o people_n together_o with_o the_o priest_n and_o yet_o condemn_v not_o those_o mass_n as_o unlawful_a wherein_o the_o people_n do_v not_o communicate_v yea_o approve_v they_o the_o like_a wit_n and_o less_o honesty_n you_o show_v alsoe_o in_o that_o you_o say_v that_o from_o the_o confession_n of_o a_o general_a council_n your_o communion_n be_v conclude_v to_o be_v more_o fruitful_a what_o affinity_n between_o your_o empty_a communion_n which_o be_v but_o a_o morsel_n of_o bread_n and_o a_o sup_v of_o wine_n and_o the_o true_a real_a &_o substantial_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n jesus_n which_o the_o faithful_a catholic_a receive_v the_o council_n commend_v daily_o receive_v of_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n as_o more_o profitable_a therefore_o say_v you_o it_o commend_v your_o communion_n which_o you_o use_v once_o twice_o thrice_o or_o 4._o time_n a_o year_n it_o wish_v that_o the_o people_n will_v receive_v sacramental_o as_o the_o priest_n do_v you_o make_v it_o say_v no_o but_o that_o the_o priest_n must_v do_v as_o the_o people_n do_v that_o be_v not_o celebrate_v but_o when_o they_o be_v dispose_v to_o receive_v be_v it_o not_o mere_a madness_n for_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n thus_o plain_o to_o abuse_v the_o council_n so_o contrary_a to_o the_o plain_a meaning_n thereof_o 3._o like_o to_o this_o be_v your_o folly_n in_o allege_v so_o many_o authoritye_n in_o favour_n of_o your_o communion_n as_o you_o think_v which_o whither_o you_o cite_v they_o true_a or_o no_o i_o do_v not_o stand_v to_o examine_v for_o it_o make_v no_o matter_n they_o say_v it_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n to_o communicate_v every_o day_n with_o the_o priest_n i_o grant_v it_o what_o then_o therefore_o the_o priest_n now_o must_v say_v mass_n but_o once_o in_o two_o or_o three_o month_n or_o once_o in_o a_o twelve_o month_n or_o not_o once_o in_o seven_o year_n unless_o the_o people_n be_v so_o devout_a as_o to_o come_v &_o receive_v with_o he_o this_o follow_v of_o your_o doctrine_n be_v not_o this_o wise_a argue_v but_o to_o answer_n you_o another_o way_n sir_n humphrey_n you_o can_v be_v ignorant_a that_o there_o be_v not_o one_o of_o these_o author_n which_o you_o cite_v for_o the_o people_n daily_a communion_n that_o say_v that_o either_o it_o be_v or_o be_v of_o necessity_n so_o to_o do_v but_o only_o bear_v witness_n of_o the_o practice_n 5._o bell._n lib._n 2._o the_o miss_n cap._n 9_o &_o 10._o durant_n de_fw-fr ritib._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 4._o n._n 5._o whereas_o some_o of_o they_o as_o bellarmine_n and_o durantus_n do_v prove_v most_o manifest_o that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o necessity_n or_o dependency_n of_o the_o priest_n celebrate_v upon_o the_o people_n communicate_v that_o they_o may_v not_o celebrate_v unless_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v nay_o they_o prove_v clear_o that_o it_o be_v ordinary_a for_o priest_n to_o celebrate_v though_o no_o body_n do_v communicate_v do_v they_o not_o prove_v by_o manifest_a authority_n that_o in_o the_o eastern_a church_n in_o the_o time_n of_o s._n ambrose_n s._n aug._n &_o s._n chrisost_o the_o people_n do_v communicate_v but_o once_o a_o year_n and_o yet_o s._n chrysost_o even_o there_o where_o he_o complain_v of_o the_o people_n coldness_n say_v of_o himself_o that_o he_o celebrate_v every_o day_n though_o there_o be_v no_o body_n to_o participate_v with_o he_o but_o because_o these_o father_n live_v after_o the_o primitive_a church_n though_o not_o long_o and_o that_o your_o author_n speak_v most_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o even_o in_o that_o time_n the_o people_n do_v not_o still_o communicate_v every_o day_n as_o they_o have_v do_v in_o the_o begin_n for_o whereas_o people_n do_v communicate_v before_o without_o command_n only_o of_o their_o own_o devotion_n they_o be_v grow_v so_o cold_a by_o pope_n fabian_n time_n 3._o fab._n epi._n 3._o which_o be_v about_o the_o year_n 240._o be_v but_o the_o one_o &_o twentieth_o pope_n that_o he_o be_v fain_o to_o make_v a_o decree_n to_o compel_v the_o people_n to_o communicate_v at_o least_o thrice_o a_o year_n and_o this_o be_v almost_o one_o hundred_o year_n before_o the_o end_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n the_o like_a decree_n i_o may_v alsoe_o bring_v out_o of_o soter_n about_o the_o year_n 175._o which_o be_v 60._o year_n before_o fabian_n whereas_o notwithstanding_o then_o priest_n and_o bishop_n do_v celebrate_v every_o day_n as_o appear_v by_o s._n cypr._n ambr._n aug._n hierome_n 4._o lib._n 2._o cap._n 4._o etc._n etc._n cite_v by_o durantus_n and_o which_o be_v more_o those_o father_n s._n aug_n by_o name_n say_v he_o do_v neither_o commend_v nor_o discommend_v the_o daily_a communion_n of_o the_o people_n but_o wish_v that_o at_o least_o upon_o sunday_n they_o will_v communicate_v but_o with_o a_o mind_n free_a from_o desire_n of_o sin_v whereas_o he_o together_o with_o other_o father_n make_v frequent_a mention_n of_o daily_a sacrifice_n but_o what_o be_v all_o this_o to_o your_o purpose_n or_o to_o your_o communion_n as_o of_o all_o that_o be_v say_v by_o the_o father_n of_o the_o holy_a communion_n be_v mean_v of_o your_o sacrilegious_a communion_n 4._o now_o for_o your_o proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n as_o that_o that_o our_o saviour_n say_v to_o his_o disciple_n take_v you_o eat_v you_o i_o answer_v that_o as_o our_o saviour_n there_o speak_v to_o all_o his_o apostle_n who_o do_v all_o eat_n so_o out_o of_o this_o place_n a_o man_n may_v even_o as_o well_o say_v that_o all_o must_v communicate_v that_o be_v in_o the_o church_n at_o the_o same_o time_n and_o that_o the_o priest_n must_v not_o say_v mass_n unless_o not_o only_o one_o 2._o or_o 3._o communicate_v but_o all_o that_o be_v there_o which_o i_o do_v not_o believe_v you_o will_v grant_v for_o i_o do_v not_o think_v that_o when_o any_o one_o man_n among_o you_o receive_v your_o communion_n all_o receive_v it_o solve_n this_o objection_n then_o of_o i_o and_o you_o answer_v your_o own_o for_o s._n paul_n word_n where_o he_o invit_v christian_n to_o imitate_v he_o as_o he_o do_v imitate_v christ_n out_o of_o which_o you_o will_v gather_v that_o priest_n must_v not_o say_v mass_n unless_o there_o be_v some_o body_n to_o communicate_v if_o a_o man_n shall_v tell_v your_o minister_n and_o yourself_o too_o sir_n humphrey_n of_o many_o thing_n
you_o must_v do_v before_o your_o communion_n communion_n annotat._n after_o the_o order_n of_o administringe_n the_o communion_n neither_o will_v it_o serve_v the_o turn_n to_o have_v one_o or_o two_o to_o bear_v the_o minister_n company_n but_o there_o must_v be_v a_o competent_a number_n for_o example_n say_v your_o book_n if_o the_o parish_n consist_v of_o 20._o person_n there_o must_v be_v 3._o or_o 4._o at_o least_o otherwise_o the_o minister_n must_v not_o communion_n it_o and_o by_o this_o rule_n a_o man_n may_v say_v proportionable_o if_o the_o parish_n have_v twenty_o hundred_o or_o 20000._o there_o shall_v be_v 3._o or_o 4._o thousand_o to_o communicate_v at_o once_o and_o if_o a_o sick_a body_n will_v receive_v he_o may_v not_o receive_v alone_o but_o he_o must_v have_v some_o body_n to_o bear_v he_o company_n and_o not_o only_o one_o or_o two_o but_o many_o or_o a_o competent_a number_n as_o your_o book_n say_v which_o therefore_o be_v to_o be_v consider_v according_a to_o 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i_o will_v alsoe_o begin_v with_o without_o long_a preface_v with_o he_o he_o set_v down_o first_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n accurse_v whosoever_o shall_v say_v the_o seven_o sacrament_n of_o the_o new_a law_n be_v not_o institute_v by_o christ_n gen_fw-la sess_n 7._o caâ—_n 1._o de_fw-fr sacr._n in_o gen_fw-la or_o that_o there_o be_v more_o or_o few_o than_o seven_o or_o that_o any_o of_o they_o be_v not_o proper_o and_o true_o a_o sacrament_n which_o decree_n say_v bellarmine_n aught_o to_o suffice_v though_o we_o have_v no_o other_o for_o if_o we_o take_v away_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n and_o present_a council_n the_o decree_n of_o all_o other_o counsel_n and_o the_o whole_a christian_a faith_n may_v be_v bring_v into_o doubt_n which_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n and_o authority_n of_o bellarmine_n he_o cry_v out_o against_o and_o say_v it_o be_v a_o foundation_n of_o atheism_n for_o in_o his_o judgement_n the_o word_n of_o christ_n alone_o be_v sufficient_a for_o all_o christian_n which_o he_o prove_v by_o those_o word_n of_o s._n paul_n i_o have_v not_o shun_v to_o declare_v unto_o you_o all_o the_o counsel_n of_o god_n 20._o act._n 20._o and_o that_o we_o may_v know_v he_o speak_v of_o the_o write_a word_n he_o bring_v bellarmine_n authority_n say_v that_o those_o thing_n be_v write_v which_o be_v by_o the_o apostle_n preach_v general_o to_o all_o and_o he_o be_v so_o confident_a against_o this_o point_n of_o the_o seven_o sacrament_n that_o he_o be_v content_a the_o curse_n shall_v light_v upon_o he_o if_o any_o learned_a man_n shall_v show_v it_o out_o of_o any_o father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n or_o any_o know_a author_n for_o about_o a_o thousand_o year_n after_o christ_n this_o be_v his_o beginning_n whereat_o i_o will_v make_v a_o stay_n and_o answer_n not_o to_o take_v too_o much_o at_o once_o he_o think_v it_o then_o a_o foundation_n of_o atheism_n to_o say_v that_o if_o we_o take_v away_o the_o 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that_o there_o must_v be_v some_o certain_a mean_n to_o learn_v true_a faith_n and_o belief_n in_o god_n and_o that_o if_o there_o be_v none_o such_o there_o can_v be_v no_o certainty_n will_v a_o man_n think_v that_o it_o shall_v ever_o enter_v into_o any_o man_n mind_n to_o say_v that_o the_o affirm_v of_o this_o infallibility_n be_v the_o way_n to_o atheism_n whereas_o the_o denial_n thereof_o be_v the_o most_o direct_a way_n that_o can_v be_v imagine_v unto_o atheism_n for_o take_v this_o infallibility_n away_o and_o there_o be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n if_o no_o rule_n no_o faith_n if_o no_o faith_n no_o right_a belief_n in_o god_n which_o be_v the_o height_n of_o atheism_n 2._o but_o because_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v not_o capable_a of_o this_o discourse_n as_o evident_a and_o demonstrative_a as_o it_o be_v i_o will_v go_v about_o with_o you_o another_o way_n i_o will_v know_v of_o you_o whither_o if_o we_o shall_v take_v away_o the_o holy_a scripture_n or_o write_v word_n it_o will_v not_o follow_v in_o you_o judgement_n that_o the_o whole_a christian_a faith_n may_v be_v call_v in_o question_n i_o say_v in_o your_o judgement_n for_o whether_o it_o will_v or_o will_v not_o in_o i_o i_o do_v not_o say_v any_o thing_n here_o certain_o it_o will_v for_o some_o rule_n man_n must_v have_v and_o that_o be_v your_o only_a rule_n now_o again_o do_v not_o you_o know_v that_o s._n gregory_n the_o great_a do_v often_o say_v &_o write_v that_o he_o do_v hold_v the_o four_o first_o counsel_n in_o the_o same_o honour_n that_o he_o do_v the_o 4._o ghospel_n which_o be_v the_o same_o as_o to_o say_v they_o can_v as_o little_o err_v as_o the_o 4._o ghospel_n why_o may_v it_o not_o then_o follow_v that_o upon_o denial_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o those_o 4._o counsel_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o christian_a faith_n may_v be_v shake_v as_o well_o as_o by_o denial_n of_o the_o gospel_n 3._o v._o bâ—ll_n lib._n 2._o the_o council_n cap._n 3._o and_o this_o which_o i_o say_v of_o s._n gregory_n i_o may_v say_v of_o many_o other_o father_n in_o regard_n of_o all_o or_o some_o of_o those_o 4._o counsel_n and_o particular_o of_o that_o of_o nice_n which_o whosoever_o shall_v have_v deny_v be_v no_o less_o to_o have_v be_v count_v a_o haeretique_n then_o if_o he_o shall_v have_v deny_v the_o gospel_n 1_o 1._o eliz_n 1_o &_o you_o yourselves_o in_o your_o parliament_n law_n give_v great_a authority_n to_o those_o 4._o first_o counsel_n &_o even_o as_o much_o if_o you_o understand_v yourselves_o well_o &_o speak_v consequent_o as_o s._n gregory_n do_v for_o you_o be_v content_a to_o acknowledge_v for_o heresy_n whatsoever_o be_v condemn_v for_o such_o by_o any_o of_o they_o which_o be_v in_o other_o word_n to_o acknowledge_v they_o for_o a_o rule_n of_o faith_n &_o consequent_o of_o infallible_a authority_n you_o join_v they_o in_o the_o same_o rank_n with_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n you_o give_v also_o the_o like_a authority_n to_o other_o general_a counsel_n but_o with_o this_o lymitation_n that_o these_o late_a must_v have_v express_a scripture_n whereby_o to_o condemn_v a_o thing_n for_o heresy_n but_o which_o be_v most_o of_o all_o to_o be_v note_v in_o the_o same_o statute_n you_o give_v power_n to_o the_o court_n of_o parliament_n with_o the_o assent_n of_o the_o clergy_n in_o their_o convocation_n to_o adjudge_v or_o determine_v a_o matter_n to_o be_v heresy_n which_o be_v the_o very_a same_o as_o to_o give_v it_o power_n to_o declare_v faith_n or_o to_o be_v a_o rule_n thereof_o which_o if_o it_o may_v agree_v to_o such_o a_o assembly_n or_o court_n of_o a_o temporal_a prince_n and_o kingdom_n i_o see_v not_o why_o it_o may_v not_o agree_v to_o a_o
non_fw-la obstante_fw-la which_o you_o will_v join_v with_o christ_n institution_n in_o both_o kind_n as_o if_o the_o council_n do_v forbid_v it_o in_o both_o kind_n notwithstanding_o that_o christ_n do_v so_o institute_v be_v not_o so_o join_v by_o the_o council_n but_o otherwise_o thus_o though_o christ_n do_v institute_v this_o venerable_a sacrament_n after_o supper_n 13._o conc._n const_n sess_v 13._o and_o administer_v the_o same_o to_o his_o disciple_n under_o both_o kind_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n yet_o this_o notwithstanding_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o holy_a canon_n &_o approve_a custom_n of_o the_o church_n have_v observe_v and_o do_v observe_v that_o this_o sacrament_n be_v not_o to_o be_v consecrate_v after_o supper_n nor_o to_o be_v receive_v by_o the_o faithful_a but_o fast_v unless_o in_o case_n of_o infirmity_n or_o other_o necessity_n allow_v by_o the_o law_n or_o church_n these_o be_v the_o very_a word_n of_o the_o council_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o the_o council_n speak_v not_o in_o this_o place_n of_o the_o institution_n of_o this_o sacrament_n in_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n but_o only_o of_o the_o time_n of_o the_o institution_n thereof_o or_o manner_n to_o wit_n after_o supper_n or_o not_o fast_v and_o of_o the_o administration_n thereof_o to_o his_o disciple_n in_o both_o kind_n at_o the_o same_o tyme._n so_o as_o i_o see_v not_o how_o you_o can_v be_v excuse_v from_o a_o notable_a and_o wilful_a corruption_n in_o cite_v the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n often_o and_o upon_o several_a occasion_n thus_o though_o christ_n do_v institute_v in_o both_o kind_n the_o council_n have_v no_o such_o word_n and_o it_o be_v likewise_o note_v by_o bellarmine_n for_o a_o flat_a corruption_n in_o luther_n 26._o v_o bell_n de_fw-fr euch_fw-ge lib._n 4._o cap._n 26._o illyricus_n and_o cheâ—nitius_n though_o if_o the_o council_n have_v say_v so_o it_o have_v say_v true_o but_o nothing_o to_o your_o purpose_n for_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o say_v that_o christ_n do_v institute_v the_o bless_a sacrament_n under_o both_o kind_n and_o another_o to_o say_v that_o he_o do_v institute_v and_o command_v all_o shall_v receive_v under_o both_o kind_n for_o this_o late_a be_v a_o command_n against_o which_o no_o man_n may_v do_v the_o former_a be_v only_o the_o example_n of_o christ_n which_o every_o man_n be_v not_o always_o bind_v to_o follow_v and_o which_o even_o you_o yourselves_o do_v not_o follow_v in_o the_o time_n and_o manner_n of_o your_o receive_n 4._o now_o for_o we_o you_o must_v know_v this_o be_v no_o new_a thing_n begin_v by_o that_o council_n in_o which_o respect_n you_o may_v temper_v your_o choler_n against_o it_o but_o it_o be_v grow_v the_o general_a practice_n which_o from_o the_o beginning_n also_o be_v somewhat_o practise_v and_o certain_a haeretique_n arise_v and_o condemn_v the_o practice_n &_o belief_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n this_o council_n condemn_v they_o and_o command_v the_o former_a custom_n to_o be_v still_o retain_v this_o be_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o matter_n against_o which_o i_o do_v not_o see_v that_o you_o say_v a_o word_n but_o only_o chafe_v and_o say_v this_o council_n be_v approve_v for_o so_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o doctrine_n againct_n haeretique_n but_o not_o for_o that_o that_o pertain_v to_o the_o power_n of_o a_o council_n over_o a_o pope_n which_o be_v all_o against_o yourself_o and_o show_v you_o be_v in_o a_o vehement_a passion_n and_o know_v not_o what_o you_o say_v but_o since_o you_o be_v so_o out_o with_o this_o council_n which_o yet_o make_v as_o well_o for_o you_o as_o for_o we_o in_o the_o point_n of_o receive_v fast_v and_o not_o after_o supper_n as_o christ_n do_v no_o wonder_n if_o you_o be_v whole_o out_o with_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n which_o therefore_o you_o cite_v in_o a_o strange_a manner_n to_o disgrace_v it_o 5._o the_o sentence_n as_o you_o cite_v it_o be_v this_o although_o our_o saviour_n do_v exhibit_v in_o both_o kind_n yet_o if_o any_o shall_v say_v the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n be_v not_o induce_v for_o just_a cause_n to_o communicate_v the_o lay_v people_n and_o the_o non-conficient_a priest_n under_o one_o kind_n to_o wit_n of_o bread_n only_o and_o shall_v say_v they_o err_v in_o so_o do_v let_v he_o be_v accurse_v which_o sentence_n be_v peece_v out_o of_o two_o several_a place_n of_o the_o council_n the_o former_a part_n contain_v in_o these_o word_n althouhg_n our_o saviour_n do_v exhibit_v in_o both_o kind_n yet_o be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o 3._o chap._n of_o the_o 21._o sess_n the_o late_a part_n or_o rest_n be_v the_o 2._o canon_n of_o the_o same_o sess_n which_o canon_n as_o it_o be_v set_v down_o in_o the_o council_n have_v neither_o a_o yet_o in_o it_o nor_o a_o althought_v and_o the_o yet_o in_o the_o say_v 3._o chapter_n infer_v another_o thing_n thus_o though_o christ_n do_v institute_v and_o deliver_v the_o bl._n sacrament_n to_o his_o apostle_n in_o both_o kind_n in_o the_o last_o supper_n yet_o be_v christ_n contain_v whole_a and_o entire_a under_o one_o kind_n and_o a_o true_a sacrament_n receive_v which_o be_v another_o matter_n then_o that_o which_o be_v command_v in_o the_o canon_n for_o in_o this_o be_v only_o teach_v that_o christ_n be_v whole_o and_o entire_o contain_v under_o one_o kind_n in_o the_o canon_n there_o be_v a_o curse_n denounce_v against_o such_o as_o shall_v condemn_v the_o practice_n of_o communicate_v under_o one_o kind_n as_o want_v just_a cause_n or_o be_v erroneous_a where_o beside_o the_o difference_n in_o the_o matter_n there_o be_v great_a difference_n in_o the_o manner_n the_o one_o be_v a_o plain_a definition_n of_o a_o speculative_a truth_n the_o other_o be_v a_o command_n pertain_v to_o practice_v or_o a_o declaration_n of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o church_n practice_n condemn_v whosoever_o shall_v say_v against_o it_o so_o as_o here_o you_o piece_n two_o several_a matter_n out_o of_o the_o council_n together_o without_o any_o connexion_n just_a as_o you_o be_v wont_a to_o do_v in_o your_o own_o argument_n and_o discourse_n but_o in_o this_o a_o man_n may_v see_v your_o ill_a deal_n for_o you_o will_v fain_o make_v it_o seem_v as_o if_o the_o council_n do_v decree_v something_o in_o opposition_n to_o christ_n and_o accurse_v all_o such_o as_o shall_v do_v as_o he_o do_v but_o this_o device_n of_o you_o be_v as_o silly_a as_o it_o be_v malicious_a for_o it_o be_v plain_a to_o any_o man_n that_o shall_v but_o look_v in_o the_o council_n that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o matter_n intend_v or_o say_v but_o all_o the_o contrary_a for_o the_o council_n say_v but_o this_o in_o the_o one_o place_n that_o though_o christ_n do_v institute_v this_o sacrament_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o so_o give_v it_o in_o his_o last_o supper_n to_o his_o disciple_n that_o yet_o he_o be_v whole_a under_o each_o kind_n wherein_o i_o will_v fain_o see_v what_o opposition_n the_o subtlety_n of_o your_o wit_n can_v find_v what_o reason_n can_v you_o give_v why_o it_o may_v not_o stand_v with_o christ_n institution_n in_o both_o kind_n that_o he_o be_v whole_a under_o both_o and_o if_o whole_o why_o not_o also_o a_o true_a sacrament_n this_o be_v a_o point_n worthy_a of_o such_o a_o wit_n as_o your_o to_o work_v upon_o so_o as_o in_o this_o the_o council_n decree_v nothing_o against_o christ_n no_o nor_o in_o the_o other_o part_n neither_o it_o be_v only_o a_o defence_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n practice_n against_o haeretique_n without_o reference_n to_o christ_n institution_n or_o command_n which_o be_v neither_o for_o nor_o against_o that_o practice_n 6._o so_o as_o when_o i_o consider_v how_o in_o this_o place_n you_o first_o mention_n christ_n institution_n and_o then_o bring_v the_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n as_o it_o be_v contrary_a unto_o it_o i_o can_v but_o wonder_v what_o it_o be_v you_o mean_v or_o what_o absurdity_n it_o be_v that_o you_o will_v make_v the_o council_n guilty_a of_o thereby_o for_o though_o the_o council_n shall_v say_v thus_o as_o it_o do_v not_o though_o christ_n do_v institute_v in_o both_o kind_n yet_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o receive_v in_o one_o what_o absurdity_n be_v there_o in_o this_o so_o long_o as_o christ_n do_v not_o command_v we_o to_o receive_v in_o both_o as_o he_o do_v institute_v which_o you_o will_v never_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v for_o christ_n may_v institute_v a_o thing_n without_o command_v it_o for_o example_n he_o do_v institute_v marriage_n yet_o command_v not_o every_o man_n to_o marry_v so_o he_o may_v do_v also_o in_o his_o manner_n of_o institution_n and_o our_o manner_n of_o receive_v this_o sacrament_n but_o beside_o this_o your_o abuse_v the_o council_n by_o patch_v up_o one_o sentence_n out_o of_o
you_o and_o they_o be_v 10._o as_o for_o that_o which_o you_o say_v out_o of_o mr._n fisher_n that_o though_o there_o be_v no_o express_a practice_n or_o precept_n of_o worship_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n yet_o there_o be_v principle_n which_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n suppose_v convince_v adoration_n to_o be_v lawful_a it_o be_v as_o well_o and_o true_o say_v by_o he_o as_o that_o be_v false_o foolish_o &_o impertinent_o which_o you_o say_v thereupon_o that_o from_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o grace_n we_o be_v come_v to_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o to_o declare_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n by_o the_o light_n thereof_o mr._n fisher_n say_v the_o light_n of_o nature_n show_v it_o to_o be_v lawful_a which_o be_v true_a you_o say_v he_o declare_v it_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n from_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n which_o be_v false_a there_o be_v great_a difference_n between_o those_o two_o to_o be_v lawful_a and_o to_o be_v a_o article_n of_o faith_n the_o light_n of_o nature_n 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falsehood_n or_o impossibility_n and_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v the_o gift_n and_o law_n alsoe_o of_o god_n why_o then_o shall_v you_o speak_v so_o contemptible_o of_o it_o but_o only_o that_o you_o want_v it_o in_o great_a part_n and_o consequent_o know_v not_o the_o worth_n thereof_o 11._o but_o it_o be_v strange_a here_o to_o see_v how_o though_o you_o can_v find_v in_o your_o hart_n to_o allow_v the_o light_n of_o nature_n allege_v for_o adoration_n of_o image_n you_o can_v allege_v it_o against_o they_o but_o even_o as_o wise_o as_o you_o deny_v it_o for_o they_o you_o say_v varro_n a_o heathen_a philosopher_n by_o the_o instinct_n of_o nature_n profess_v the_o contrary_a by_o say_v the_o god_n be_v better_o serve_v without_o image_n the_o latin_a be_v castius_fw-la dij_fw-la obseruantur_fw-la sine_fw-la simulachris_fw-la 31._o aug._n 4._o de_fw-fr civit._n ca._n 31._o which_o say_v you_o tell_v we_o s._n aug._n comend_v and_o so_o he_o do_v indeed_o but_o understand_v he_o far_o otherwise_o than_o you_o do_v for_o he_o do_v take_v simulachrum_fw-la not_o for_o a_o image_n as_o you_o do_v false_o but_o for_o a_o idol_n as_o it_o be_v indeed_o and_o so_o commend_v varro_n for_o come_v near_o to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o true_a god_n and_o go_v far_o from_o idolatry_n in_o that_o he_o neither_o acknowledge_v any_o deity_n in_o those_o material_a idol_n nor_o that_o multiplicity_n of_o god_n but_o rather_o allow_v the_o opinion_n of_o they_o that_o hold_v that_o god_n be_v the_o soul_n of_o the_o world_n which_o though_o it_o be_v also_o a_o error_n in_o he_o yet_o s._n augustine_n say_v it_o come_v near_a to_o truth_n in_o that_o it_o teach_v but_o one_o god_n and_o he_o not_o a_o material_a or_o corporal_a but_o a_o spiritual_a and_o invisible_a substance_n for_o proof_n whereof_o varro_n allege_v that_o for_o above_o a_o hundred_o year_n the_o roman_n have_v worship_v their_o god_n without_o those_o material_a idol_n which_o whosoever_o bring_v in_o say_v he_o do_v take_v a_o way_n the_o fear_n and_o add_v or_o increase_v the_o error_n he_o mean_v that_o they_o that_o bring_v in_o those_o idol_n take_v away_o all_o fear_n of_o the_o god_n because_o man_n see_v those_o idol_n propose_v for_o god_n contemn_v they_o and_o this_o be_v that_o which_o he_o say_v castiùs_fw-la dij_fw-la obseruantur_fw-la sine_fw-la simulachris_fw-la the_o god_n be_v more_o chaste_o or_o pure_o observe_v or_o fear_v without_o those_o idol_n now_o what_o be_v this_o against_o us._n do_v not_o we_o say_v the_o same_o thing_n much_o more_o ample_o and_o more_o full_o i_o see_v not_o then_o why_o you_o shall_v bring_v it_o unless_o it_o be_v to_o usher_v in_o a_o thing_n which_o you_o have_v out_o of_o eusebius_n to_o give_v the_o reason_n as_o you_o say_v why_o these_o father_n condemn_v the_o worshipper_n of_o image_n for_o haeretique_n and_o idolater_n in_o these_o word_n because_o say_v eusebius_n the_o man_n of_o old_a of_o a_o heathenish_a custom_n be_v wont_v after_o that_o manner_n to_o honour_v such_o as_o they_o count_v saviour_n whereupon_o you_o say_v that_o after_o image_n have_v get_v foot_v among_o christian_n the_o bishop_n and_o emperor_n by_o counsel_n and_o command_n take_v special_a care_n to_o prevent_v both_o the_o make_n and_o worship_v they_o and_o thereto_o you_o bring_v a_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o eliberis_n that_o no_o picture_n shall_v be_v in_o church_n lest_o that_o which_o be_v worship_v shall_v be_v paint_v on_o the_o wall_n and_o a_o authority_n out_o of_o the_o civil_a law_n of_o a_o decree_n make_v against_o adoration_n of_o image_n which_o i_o shall_v cite_v when_o i_o come_v to_o answer_n it_o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n wherein_o you_o have_v give_v so_o sufficient_a testimony_n of_o notorious_a bad_a deal_n especial_o in_o the_o 2._o place_n of_o eusebius_n and_o of_o the_o civil_a law_n that_o if_o there_o be_v nothing_o else_o falsify_v or_o corrupt_v in_o your_o whole_a book_n this_o be_v enough_o utter_o to_o deface_v all_o memory_n of_o you_o from_o among_o honest_a man_n 12._o the_o matter_n be_v this_o have_v bring_v only_o s._n aug_n commend_v varro_n his_o say_n against_o idol_n you_o say_v in_o the_o plural_a number_n these_o father_n as_o if_o you_o have_v bring_v some_o great_a number_n of_o father_n and_o withal_o you_o say_v these_o father_n condemn_v the_o worhipper_n of_o image_n for_o haeretique_n and_o idolater_n what_o word_n have_v you_o bring_v out_o of_o any_o father_n one_o or_o other_o to_o this_o purpose_n from_o the_o very_a beginning_n of_o this_o §_o either_o condemn_v the_o woship_n of_o image_n in_o we_o christian_n or_o call_v we_o haeretique_n or_o idolater_n for_o it_o how_o then_o can_v you_o have_v the_o face_n to_o say_v it_o so_o bold_o but_o we_o must_v not_o ask_v you_o reason_n for_o any_o thing_n you_o say_v but_o take_v it_o as_o you_o say_v it_o well_o you_o tell_v we_o eusebius_n give_v the_o reason_n 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follow_v curiosity_n become_v christian_n confess_v their_o deed_n and_o burn_v their_o book_n so_o we_o see_v afterward_o the_o book_n of_o arius_n be_v command_v to_o be_v burn_v and_o man_n forbid_v to_o keep_v they_o under_o pain_n of_o death_n 6._o socrat._v hist_o lib._n 1._o cap._n 6._o and_o so_o of_o other_o which_o i_o will_v not_o here_o stand_v upon_o only_o content_v myself_o with_o one_o example_n of_o this_o kind_n which_o for_o the_o antiquity_n and_o authority_n may_v be_v both_o proof_n and_o warrant_n for_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n now_o at_o this_o time_n wherein_o the_o haeretique_n do_v so_o much_o cry_v out_o against_o the_o inquisition_n and_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la 2._o this_o example_n be_v that_o of_o gelasius_n 1_o pope_n about_o the_o year_n 490._o who_o in_o a_o council_n at_o rome_n gather_v for_o that_o end_n make_v a_o decree_n to_o declare_v what_o scripture_n be_v canonical_a what_o father_n and_o doctor_n may_v be_v safe_o 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not_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o invocate_v angel_n say_v withal_o that_o in_o the_o same_o council_n publish_v by_o merlin_n and_o crabbe_n by_o change_n of_o a_o letter_n angelos_n be_v turn_v into_o angulos_fw-la angel_n into_o angle_n and_o corner_n thus_o that_o we_o must_v not_o leave_v the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o have_v recourse_n to_o angle_n or_o corner_n and_o this_o say_v you_o lest_o so_o fair_a a_o evidence_n of_o a_o ancient_a council_n shall_v be_v produce_v against_o invocation_n of_o angel_n council_n v._o bin._n to_o 1._o council_n thus_o you_o sir_n humphrey_z wherein_o first_o be_v to_o be_v note_v your_o error_n in_o chronology_n concern_v the_o time_n of_o this_o council_n which_o you_o make_v to_o be_v the_o year_n 368._o which_o be_v 43._o 35._o con._n laodien_n can_v 35._o year_n after_o the_o 1._o council_n of_o nice_a whereas_o it_o be_v celebrate_v before_o that_o council_n second_o your_o corruption_n in_o the_o translation_n and_o cut_n of_o of_o the_o canon_n which_o be_v thus_o non_fw-la oportet_fw-la relicta_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la ad_fw-la angelos_n abominandae_fw-la idolatriae_fw-la congregrationes_fw-la facere_fw-la quicunque_fw-la autem_fw-la inventus_fw-la fuerit_fw-la occultae_fw-la huic_fw-la idololaetriae_fw-la vacans_fw-la anathema_n sit_fw-la quoniam_fw-la relinquens_fw-la dominum_fw-la jesum_fw-la christum_fw-la filium_fw-la dei_fw-la accessit_fw-la ad_fw-la idola_fw-la no_o man_n must_v leave_v the_o church_n of_o god_n make_v congregation_n to_o the_o angel_n of_o abominable_a idolatry_n and_o whosoever_o shall_v be_v find_v exercise_v this_o secret_a idolatry_n let_v he_o be_v anathema_n because_o leave_v jesus_n christ_n the_o son_n of_o god_n he_o have_v come_v to_o idol_n now_o where_o in_o this_o canon_n do_v you_o find_v the_o word_n invocation_n of_o angel_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n that_o you_o pretend_v to_o be_v forbid_v and_o much_o less_o do_v you_o find_v such_o invocation_n of_o angel_n as_o we_o use_v for_o in_o this_o canon_n be_v only_o forbid_v such_o idolatrical_a invocation_n as_o the_o simonian_n and_o other_o haeretique_n do_v use_v praefer_v the_o angel_n before_o christ_n and_o make_v they_o the_o creator_n of_o the_o world_n and_o the_o only_a or_o chief_a mediator_n without_o who_o help_n there_o be_v no_o access_n to_o be_v have_v to_o god_n which_o be_v the_o same_o wicked_a haeresy_n which_o saint_n paul_n speak_v against_o coloss_n 2._o as_o all_o interpreter_n understand_v he_o by_o who_o word_n it_o be_v plain_a that_o those_o haeretique_n leave_v christ_n and_o have_v recourse_n to_o angel_n in_o this_o sense_n nemo_fw-la vos_fw-la seducat_fw-la non_fw-la tenens_fw-la caput_fw-la etc._n etc._n let_v no_o man_n seduce_v you_o not_o hold_v the_o head_n that_o be_v not_o hold_v by_o christ_n now_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o we_o by_o invocation_n of_o angel_n forsake_v christ_n
donatist_n who_o justify_v themselves_o as_o you_o sir_n knight_n justify_v your_o church_n much_o more_o of_o this_o may_v be_v say_v but_o this_o may_v serve_v to_o show_v you_o not_o to_o be_v in_o your_o right_a wit_n that_o brag_v of_o that_o which_o you_o ought_v most_o to_o be_v ashamed_a of_o and_o account_n that_o to_o make_v for_o you_o which_o make_v most_o against_o you_o 9_o for_o that_o which_o you_o talk_v of_o go_v out_o of_o egypt_n and_o babylon_n which_o you_o will_v have_v man_n understand_v the_o catholic_a church_n as_o if_o you_o be_v command_v to_o go_v out_o from_o she_o do_v but_o once_o show_v we_o that_o egypt_n and_o babylon_n which_o the_o sripture_n speak_v of_o be_v ever_o the_o true_a church_n and_o then_o you_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v say_v some_o what_o for_o your_o church_n departure_n from_o the_o roman_a which_o impudence_n itself_o can_v deny_v to_o have_v be_v once_o the_o true_a church_n you_o be_v bold_a indeed_o to_o say_v that_o babylon_n be_v a_o true_a church_n wherewith_o sometime_o the_o faithful_a do_v communicate_v but_o that_o after_o it_o be_v more_o deprave_a the_o faithful_a be_v command_v to_o go_v out_o of_o it_o but_o i_o may_v ask_v you_o where_o you_o read_v this_o what_o father_n what_o doctor_n what_o man_n ever_o take_v babylon_n in_o scripture_n to_o be_v use_v for_o the_o name_n of_o the_o true_a church_n s._n peter_n in_o one_o of_o his_o epistle_n speak_v of_o rome_n by_o the_o name_n of_o babylon_n out_o of_o which_o a_o multitude_n of_o father_n and_o doctor_n prove_v that_o saint_n peter_n be_v at_o rome_n and_o now_o you_o forsooth_o bring_v some_o of_o they_o cite_v by_o our_o author_n to_o that_o purpose_n to_o prove_v that_o by_o babylon_n be_v understand_v the_o true_a church_n abuse_v all_o those_o father_n most_o egregious_o among_o all_o who_o never_o one_o mean_v any_o such_o matter_n but_o only_o by_o babylon_n understand_v the_o temporal_a state_n and_o government_n of_o the_o city_n of_o rome_n as_o it_o be_v subject_a to_o those_o pagan_a tyrannize_a emperor_n which_o persecute_v the_o church_n and_o people_n of_o god_n wherein_o it_o do_v resemble_v that_o other_o ancient_a and_o true_a babylon_n which_o detain_v the_o jew_n than_o the_o true_a church_n and_o people_n of_o god_n in_o captivity_n and_o oppression_n which_o also_o s._n peter_n own_o word_n do_v sufficient_o show_v distinguish_v most_o plain_o babylon_n from_o the_o true_a church_n for_o he_o say_v thus_o 5.13_o 1._o pet._n 5.13_o ecclesia_fw-la quae_fw-la est_fw-la in_o babylone_a coëlecta_fw-la the_o church_n which_o be_v in_o babylon_n coelect_a salute_v you_o not_o that_o babylon_n be_v a_o true_a church_n as_o your_o word_n be_v sir_n humphrey_n 10._o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o when_o she_o be_v deprave_a the_o faithful_a be_v will_v to_o go_v out_o of_o she_o that_o be_v out_o of_o she_o that_o be_v once_o the_o true_a church_n you_o be_v extreme_o mistake_v for_o if_o you_o mean_v any_o true_a babylon_n as_o that_o city_n of_o chaldaea_n or_o that_o other_o of_o egypt_n or_o babylon_n by_o similitude_n and_o likeness_n as_o be_v rome_n in_o time_n of_o the_o heathen_a emperor_n and_o as_o many_o interpreter_n think_v towards_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n in_o time_n of_o antichrist_n the_o city_n or_o temporal_a government_n thereof_o shall_v again_o become_v of_o which_o time_n that_o of_o the_o apocalypse_n be_v mean_v that_o the_o faithful_a shall_v fly_v for_o avoid_v of_o the_o cruelty_n and_o tyranny_n of_o the_o persecutor_n which_o shall_v then_o be_v more_o cruel_a than_o ever_o or_o if_o by_o babylon_n you_o mean_v the_o whole_a company_n of_o wicked_a man_n from_o the_o begin_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n as_o s._n aug._n take_v it_o throughout_o his_o great_a work_n de_fw-fr civet_n dei_fw-la and_o other_o father_n and_o doctor_n and_o many_o interpreter_n understand_v that_o place_n of_o the_o apocalypse_n 18._o if_o i_o say_v you_o mean_v it_o any_o of_o these_o way_n as_o no_o man_n of_o understand_v ever_o mean_v or_o understand_v it_o otherwise_o then_o be_v it_o never_o any_o true_a church_n and_o so_o the_o child_n and_o people_n of_o god_n may_v well_o be_v will_v to_o get_v out_o of_o it_o either_o local_o by_o motion_n of_o the_o body_n or_o spiritual_o by_o avoid_v the_o manner_n of_o the_o people_n not_o have_v any_o thing_n with_o they_o in_o their_o wicked_a way_n but_o if_o you_o mean_v as_o you_o express_v yourself_o that_o by_o babylon_n be_v understand_v the_o true_a church_n and_o that_o it_o may_v be_v deprave_a that_o be_v that_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n notwithstanding_o all_o his_o promise_n for_o the_o perpetuity_n thereof_o as_o that_o he_o will_v be_v with_o it_o to_o the_o world_n end_n that_o it_o be_v build_v upon_o a_o rock_n that_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o it_o that_o he_o will_v send_v the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o be_v with_o it_o for_o ever_o notwithstanding_o that_o the_o church_n be_v his_o kingdom_n his_o inheritance_n his_o mystical_a body_n his_o spouse_n that_o notwithstanding_o all_o this_o i_o say_v it_o shall_v fail_v it_o shoull_a be_v deprave_a it_o shall_v be_v wiolate_v i_o know_v not_o what_o to_o say_v but_o to_o stop_n my_o ear_n against_o that_o mouth_n of_o blasphemy_n of_o you_o and_o herewith_o end_v this_o section_n the_o rest_n thereof_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o bitter_a froth_n of_o a_o distemper_a stomach_n and_o unworthy_a of_o answer_n 3._o chap._n 3._o the_o examination_n of_o sir_n humphrey_n second_n and_o three_o section_n chapter_n iii_o 1._o in_o the_o second_o section_n sir_n humphrey_n labour_v to_o prove_v the_o contention_n betwixt_o the_o church_n as_o he_o call_v they_o to_o proceed_v original_o from_o we_o and_o this_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o our_o own_o the_o three_o section_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o corruption_n both_o in_o faith_n and_o manner_n confess_v by_o some_o of_o we_o and_o yet_o reformation_n deny_v by_o the_o pope_n both_o which_o be_v easy_o answer_v first_o by_o ask_v what_o all_o this_o be_v to_o his_o purpose_n suppose_v it_o be_v true_a do_v this_o show_n his_o church_n to_o have_v be_v always_o visible_a or_o we_o to_o have_v be_v at_o any_o time_n not_o visible_a he_o be_v not_o to_o stand_v upon_o matter_n of_o contention_n who_o be_v cause_n or_o not_o cause_v thereof_o or_o who_o will_v have_v mend_v who_o not_o for_o the_o error_n in_o faith_n which_o he_o seem_v to_o tax_v â—s_n withal_o in_o his_o three_o section_n if_o he_o can_v prove_v they_o he_o say_v somewhat_o indeed_o though_o yet_o not_o so_o full_o to_o his_o purpose_n for_o though_o he_o prove_v we_o to_o have_v have_v some_o error_n it_o do_v not_o so_o present_o follow_v that_o they_o of_o his_o side_n have_v have_v none_o or_o that_o therefore_o their_o church_n have_v be_v ever_o visible_a there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o require_v to_o it_o then_o so_o and_o though_o he_o shall_v prove_v some_o error_n to_o have_v be_v teach_v by_o some_o particular_a man_n or_o even_o in_o some_o country_n profess_v the_o catholic_a faith_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v fail_v in_o faith_n or_o cease_v to_o be_v visible_a 2._o second_o i_o answer_v to_o his_o second_o section_n which_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o contention_n proceed_v from_o we_o which_o he_o undertake_v to_o prove_v by_o our_o own_o confession_n that_o in_o all_o this_o section_n he_o bring_v but_o four_o authority_n to_o wit_n cassander_n a_o canon_n of_o his_o english_a church_n out_o of_o the_o praeface_n to_o jewel_n work_n camden_n cite_v s._n bede_n plessy_n morney_n cite_v michael_n caesenas_n of_o all_o which_o only_a s._n bede_n be_v a_o catholic_a and_o even_o cite_v by_o the_o protestant_a camden_n and_o only_o for_o a_o story_n which_o he_o tell_v of_o one_o redwalde_a king_n of_o the_o east_n saxon_n who_o be_v first_o convert_v to_o christianity_n and_o after_o seduce_v by_o his_o wife_n have_v in_o the_o same_o church_n two_o altar_n one_o for_o christ_n religion_n another_o for_o the_o devil_n out_o of_o which_o this_o knight_n frame_v to_o himself_o a_o pretty_a fancy_n be_v desirous_a hereby_o to_o make_v man_n believe_v that_o the_o like_v happen_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o that_o some_o adore_a god_n only_o other_o fall_v to_o adore_v saint_n and_o image_n and_o the_o like_a which_o fond_a conceit_n what_o answer_n can_v it_o deserve_v for_o it_o be_v but_o the_o bare_a say_n of_o one_o that_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o he_o say_v for_o otherwise_o how_o can_v he_o possible_o say_v such_o a_o thing_n of_o himself_o without_o say_v when_o where_o or_o how_o that_o happen_v
not_o much_o short_a of_o idolatry_n for_o tertull_n doubt_v not_o to_o aequal_a they_o nec_fw-la dubitare_fw-la quis_fw-la debet_fw-la neque_fw-la ab_fw-la idolatria_fw-la distare_fw-la haereses_fw-la 40._o tertul._n de_fw-fr praeser_fw-ge cap._n 40._o quum_fw-la &_o auctoris_fw-la &_o operis_fw-la eiusdem_fw-la sint_fw-la cvius_fw-la &_o idolatria_fw-la neither_o ought_v any_o man_n to_o doubt_n that_o heresy_n do_v not_o differ_v from_o idolatry_n since_o their_o author_n and_o work_n be_v the_o same_o which_o idolatry_n nay_o in_o some_o respect_v haeresy_n go_v beyond_o idolatry_n as_o s._n thomas_n well_o show_v and_o s._n hierome_n say_v absolute_o and_o without_o limitation_n esai_n 2.2_o q._n lib._n 7._o in_o esai_n nemo_fw-la tam_fw-la impius_fw-la est_fw-la quem_fw-la haereticus_fw-la impietate_fw-la non_fw-la uincat_fw-la there_o be_v no_o man_n so_o impious_a who_o a_o heretic_n do_v not_o surpass_v in_o impiety_n therefore_o your_o comfort_n be_v vanity_n since_o your_o profession_n be_v impiety_n and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o matter_n 16._o now_o if_o any_o man_n will_v but_o lend_v a_o ear_n he_o shall_v hear_v a_o fine_a conceit_n of_o you_o whereby_o to_o prove_v your_o faith_n ancient_a universal_a and_o what_o not_o that_o be_v by_o answer_v our_o question_n where_o your_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n in_o this_o manner_n of_o the_o four_o creed_n to_o wit_n of_o the_o apostle_n of_o nice_a of_o athanasius_n and_o pius_n 4._o you_o believe_v 3._o which_o be_v believe_v before_o luther_n of_o the_o 7._o sacrament_n you_o believe_v 2._o which_o we_o confess_v also_o to_o have_v be_v institute_v by_o christ_n of_o scripture_n you_o acknowledge_v 22._o book_n for_o canonical_a which_o we_o allow_v &_o which_o be_v so_o believe_v before_o luther_n tyme._n 19_o why_o rather_o 7._o counsel_n then_o 17._o or_o 19_o of_o the_o 7._o general_a counsel_n 4._o be_v confirm_v by_o parliament_n in_o england_n not_o call_v by_o luther_n the_o tradition_n universal_o receive_v and_o which_o we_o confess_v to_o be_v apostolical_a be_v derive_v from_o the_o apostle_n to_o you_o as_o you_o say_v not_o from_o luther_n the_o prayer_n in_o your_o common_a prayer_n book_n be_v the_o same_o say_v you_o in_o substance_n with_o our_o ancient_a liturgy_n not_o broach_v by_o luther_n the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n be_v from_o the_o apostle_n not_o from_o luther_n if_o therefore_o say_v you_o the_o 3._o creed_n the_o two_o principal_a sacrament_n the_o 22._o book_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n the_o four_o first_o general_n counsel_n the_o apostolic_a tradition_n the_o ancient_a liturgy_n the_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n be_v ancient_o &_o universal_o receive_v in_o all_o age_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n even_o by_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n be_v it_o not_o a_o silly_a and_o senseless_a question_n to_o demand_v where_o our_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n all_o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n knight_n and_o most_o part_n your_o very_a word_n wherein_o you_o seem_v to_o think_v you_o have_v so_o satisfy_v our_o question_n that_o in_o your_o judgement_n it_o be_v silly_a and_o senseless_a to_o demand_v it_o any_o more_o but_o it_o will_v easy_o appear_v on_o the_o contrary_a side_n what_o a_o silly_a &_o senseless_a thing_n it_o be_v for_o you_o to_o frame_v such_o a_o discourse_n to_o yourself_o and_o much_o more_o so_o to_o publish_v it_o to_o other_o man_n as_o if_o any_o body_n else_o have_v so_o little_a wit_n as_o to_o be_v please_v therewith_o for_o be_v it_o so_o that_o these_o point_n of_o doctrine_n be_v ancient_o teach_v as_o they_o be_v now_o teach_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n what_o follow_v that_o you_o have_v a_o church_n before_o luther_n nothing_o less_o for_o a_o church_n consist_v not_o of_o point_n of_o doctrine_n or_o faith_n only_o but_o much_o more_o of_o man_n profess_v such_o and_o such_o sacrament_n &_o rite_n such_o a_o faith_n &_o religion_n if_o therefore_o you_o will_v show_v we_o a_o church_n you_o must_v show_v we_o such_o a_o company_n of_o man_n which_o till_o you_o can_v show_v the_o question_n remain_v unanswear_v if_o you_o say_v they_o be_v the_o same_o man_n of_o which_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v then_o consist_v which_o you_o seem_v to_o say_v in_o that_o you_o tell_v we_o your_o church_n be_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n i_o answer_v that_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o as_o now_o since_o luther_n time_n you_o be_v a_o distinct_a company_n make_v a_o church_n such_o as_o it_o be_v by_o yourselves_o so_o you_o must_v show_v a_o company_n of_o man_n in_o like_a manner_n distinct_a in_o former_a time_n from_o we_o and_o your_o antiquity_n be_v only_o to_o begin_v from_o such_o a_o time_n as_o you_o begin_v to_o be_v a_o distinct_a company_n from_o we_o you_o must_v not_o think_v to_o stand_v and_o contend_v with_o we_o for_o antiquity_n and_o then_o pretend_v our_o antiquity_n to_o be_v you_o but_o you_o must_v show_v a_o distinct_a succession_n of_o bishop_n a_o distinct_a common_a wealth_n or_o people_n profess_v that_o faith_n only_o which_o you_o believe_v &_o practise_v those_o rite_n ceremony_n and_o sacrament_n only_a which_o you_o have_v when_o you_o have_v do_v this_o you_o may_v better_o demand_v what_o a_o silly_a &_o senseless_a question_n it_o be_v to_o ask_v where_o your_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n 17._o but_o because_o you_o mention_v your_o be_v in_o former_a age_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n not_o only_o here_o but_o else_o where_o often_o in_o this_o your_o treatise_n as_o if_o thereby_o you_o will_v make_v your_o church_n seem_v one_o and_o the_o same_o with_o we_o or_o at_o least_o to_o descend_v from_o we_o 36._o tertull._n de_fw-fr praesâ—r_fw-fr cap._n 36._o and_o so_o to_o participate_v of_o our_o visibility_n and_o universality_n i_o will_v allege_v you_o a_o say_n of_o tertullians_n which_o do_v so_o full_o answer_v 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