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church_n	build_v	peter_n	rock_n	30,238	5	9.7701	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A42146	The searchers for schism search'd, or, Their pretended questions for conscience sake answered wherein is proved that those baptized congregations under laying on of hands are not guilty of schism in separating from them : shewing, in opposition to their threeforld hypothesis, that their church constitution is not true, separation from them proved lawful, the truth and authority of the doctrine about which they separate, vindicated / humbly presented to all concerned [by] J. Griffith ...	Griffith, John, 1622?-1700.	1669 (1669)	Wing G2003; ESTC R41670	59,153	128

the Church of Pergamos is by the Spirit commanded to repent of this evil the command backed with a commination which proves that such must be put out of the Church that so hold much more such which so do 7. But laying on of Hands we do indeed make Essential to Church Communion because it is a Principle of the Doctrine of Christ as hath been proved now and heretofore and never was disproved by you except asking questions be refutation Quest 5. We demand whether there was not a Church of Christ in the world before his Ascention and whether any other qualification was then pre-requisite to Church Membership than Confession of Sins and Faith in Christ for the remission of them together with a being Baptized into his Name and walking in a holy life and conversation if you say any thing else was then required and practised as Essential to Church Membership shew us what that was and where it was so required and practised And if you say nothing else was then required and practised we demand whether the Church of Christ was wanting of any thing then that was Essential to its being whatever it might want as to its well-being If you say it wanted nothing then that was Essential to its being then we further demand how this People so continuing in Faith Baptism and Holiness of life could cease to be a Church of Christ after his Ascention though they might not come up to some of those others Truths that were afterward revealed when the Spirit was made manifest c. Answer 1. We do not find that Christ before his Ascension doth give the Name or Title of a Church to any but onely calls his Followers Disciples as we might enumerate a multitude of places in the Evangelists 2. We find that our Lord Jesus when Peter confessed that he was the Christ the Son of the Living God answered Peter and said Upon this Rock will I build my Church He doth not say I have built my Church upon this Rock but I will c. speaking in the future tense Hereafter when I do build it not that he had then built his Church but was about the work making all things ready as materials both for the Foundation and Building 3. Nor is what we say destitute of good reason for his Disciples might then confess and believe him to be the Christ but could not believe him dead risen ascended and that the Comforter was come upon which as upon ● Rock or sure Foundation Christ would build hi● Church and hath since his last Will and Testament is in force by his Death Heb. 9.16 17 for his Church now is founded upon these Basi● Christ is come and died for our Sins according to the Scriptures believing that we in dut● ought to be baptised in his Name for the Remission of them Act. 2.38 22.16 and pray with laying on of hands for the gift of the Spirit which now is come since Christ is ascended to the Father according to his promise John 16.7 to guide us into all Truth and to be with us for ever John 14.16 17. as his alone Vicar on Earth John 16.13 14 15. by which Spirit we are baptised into one body 1 Cor. 12.13 believing that as he is risen from the dead he will also raise us up at the last day John 6.40 and will come the second time sitting upon the Throne of his Glory to Judgement and to render to every man as his work shall be On all which as on a Rock or Foundation the Disciples could not be built in the time of Christs life not till after his Ascension because they were not then laid nor could not till Christ was dead risen and ascended to the Father Yet in the time of his Life as his Disciples he was diligent to instruct teach and inform them of all these things as such which should be done and accomplished in their due and appointed time viz. after he had suffered was risen and ascended to the Father But it may be objected That Christ saith Mat. 18.17 If he shall neglect to hear them tell it to the Church there Christ calls them a Church That doth not follow those being words of direction and instruction which Christ gives them by which they might be guided when they had received power from on high to proceed as a Church to censure unholy and disorderly Walkers not that they before they were endowed with that power from on high were to act as a Church to censure the impenitent no● did they as we read You may further object That Christ did break Bread with them and therefore they we● then a Church It is true Christ did before his Passion institute the Supper he brake the Bread and gave it to his Disciples but it was onely with the Twelve the rest of the Disciples being absent then doth it not follow that the Disciples we● in the capacity of a Church because the Twelve are singled out from the rest of the Disciples which shews excepting him that was lost tha● they were taken apart from the other Disciples as those that were appointed by the Lord to b● Witnesses in a more eminent way and manne● than the rest of all those things he should suffer And those whom Jesus had chosen and give● commandment to not onely by his own mouth but through the Holy Ghost also Act. 1.2 wha● they should teach others to believe and observe Mat. 28.20 Breaking Bread then at this tim● might not be solemnized as Church-communion which ought to be when the whole Body comet● together to commemorate the Body and Blood of Christ the one as broken the other shed and to shew the Lords death till he come but rather was instituted then by Christ at the feast of the Passover to shew them what they should after he was ascended do also to teach others what they should do and observe when they were endowed with power from on high and thereby were en●ighted to all things relating to Church-Power and the administration of all Church-Ordinances which until they were so impowered they were onely to wait at Jerusalem Luk. 24.49 Act. 1.4 If otherwise why should the rest of the Disciples be excluded and not called to this last Supper of the Lord If they broke Bread as a Church the rest of the Disciples had as much right to that Communion as the Twelve or else the Twelve onely were the Church and the other Disciples no part of it And if a Church why must they wait for power at Jerusalem This we humbly and modestly offer to consideration And as for the rest of your Queries and Demands which you multiply in this Question they are either removed and answered or require none further But say you further if you shall say they wanted something while Christ was among them essential to Communion then we demand whether this doth not reflect a want of care in Christ who left them so and indeed want

of God be good if it be received with thanks-giving and such-like being an Error not essential to Church-communion to break Communion with a Church of Christ for some such single Error may be a wounding to the weak and a hardening to the wicked and may keep many out of the Church that would come in and give occasion of going out to many th●y are in and such Divisions from a true Church may be an in-let to Atheism and Infidelity and ought to be eschewed by all Christians as great reproaches to Christian Religion and all this Errors in Fundamentals c. will do The end of the Questions grounded upon the first Hypothesis the second follows with their Answers Quest 18. But if it shall be said as some of you have Preached and Printed that laying on of Hands is essential to Church-communion and that those that are not under it have not God and are not in Communion with God it is demanded where are the Scriptures that either prove it essential to Communion and that those that are not under it have not Communion with God Answer 1. We have not only said but still do say that laying on of Hands is essential to Church-communion and that those who transgress against Christs Doctrine of which Doctrine laying on of Hands is a Principle as hath been confessed by you to be in these words viz. One of the first Rudiments of Christianity hath not Communion with God as his Church hath especially you who have made such wicked and absurd opposition against it as you have done See our Answer to the 12th Question 2. Whereas you demand where the Scriptures are that prove laying on of Hands to be essential to communion we say they are in Heb. 6. Acts 8.19 But if you mean where are the Scriptures that in terminis will say so we demand where are the Scriptures that in so many words will prove Baptism of Water the Resurrection of the Dead eternal Judgment to be essential to Communion every one of which you make an essential thereof if you deceive us not and if they why not laying on of Hands which is as truly as either of them a Foundation Principle of Christs Doctrine 3. And since you demand where are the Scriptures that prove those that are not under laying on of Hands have not Communion with God we tell you once again that the Scriptures proving such transgressors as you have been who have both blasphemed and prophaned that sacred Appointment of the Lords which is a Foundation Principle of his Doctrine have not Communion with God as his Church are in 2 Joh. 9. Joh. 14.24 Acts 3.22 23. with many more in the New Testament Quest 19. If it shall be said as some of you have Printed and said That they that are not under laying on of Hands have not God because they transgress and not abide in the Doctrine of Christ according to 2 Joh. 9. We demand whether this be not vain Philosophy and whether by the same reason we may not unchurch all the Churches that ever were in the world Might it not be said of the Church of the Hebrews that they had not God because they had not an acquaintance with and so consequently did not abide in all the Doctrine of Christ relating to his Priestly Office and whether those many things that the Author had to say concerning Christs high Priesthood where the Doctrine of Christ and Christs Oracles or the Authors own inventions if they were Christs Oracles or sayings which they could not receive because they were dull of hearing then they did transgress them or why doth the Author find fault with them And if they did transgress his sayings and Oracles and yet were a Church and still in communion and are call'd Babes in Christ how dare you say they that abide not in all Christs sayings have not God Did not the Churches in Asia transgress and might it not be said of them that they did not abide in all Christs Doctrine when Ephesus left her first love when Pergamos retained those in communion that held the Doctrine of Balaam and the Nicholaitans and the Church of Sardis kept their communion with those that had defiled their garments and the Laodiceans are charged with Luke-warmness and with being self-conceited and so are the Church of Corinth in suffering the incestuous person for which they ought by Christs Doctrine to have been humbled we demand where the Scriptures do declare these to be no Churches or incommunicable though in many things they did transgress the sayings and did not continue or abide in all the Doctrines and Oracles of God but if for all these they were still owned as Churches how then dare you say of them or of any that should fail like them that they are no Churches and have not communion with God because they abide not in all his Doctrine May not we rather turn the edge of that Argument upon your selves thus They that God owns for Churches you sin in disowning but God owns those for Churches that fail and come short of many things that Christ taught them therefore you sin in disowning them Answer 1. We say again as some of us have Printed and said That you who have transgressed at such a rate as you have done and still do against the Doctrine of Christ have not God as his Church according to 2 Joh. 9. nor is this vain Philosophy as you vainly enquire but sound words and wholsome Doctrine which some of you will find to your sorrow in the day of account if you repent not 2. Nor can any Church rightly constituted be unchurched by this reason Because Churches rightly constituted do not transgress against the Doctrine of Christ but continue in it and have both the Father and the Son nor can it be said of the Hebrew Church that they had not God because they understood not all those things hard to be uttered relating to the Priestly Office of Christ because they had laid all the Principles of Christs Doctrine Heb. 5.12 and 6.1 2. which you have not and continued in them Act. 2.42 which you do not Their fault for which the Apostle blames them was their slack and slow growth for the time they had been a Church built upon the Rock Christ and the Foundation-Principles of his Doctrine by which neglect they became dull of hearing and were yet but as Babes unskilful in the Word of Righteousness and therefore he exhorts them to go on to perfection Heb. 6.1 that they might redeem their lost time and avoid the danger they stood in of falling away from what they were partakers of their danger being such that if they should still continue slothful and negligent and not go on to perfection they would at length fall from and not continue in the Doctrine of Christ on which they were built which if they did there was no renewing them by repentance 3. And indeed those things of which they were ignorant were

will allow us to use the Bread and Wine as the means to commemorate the Lords Body and Blood and not reject it and cast it off as useless So in like manner if laying on of hands be a figurative speech and understood for the Spirit that was given thereby we hope you must allow that laying on of hands ought to be used and practised as the means by which the Spirit was obtained and is given as well as you will the Cup and the Bread and Wine in your figurative instances and we desire no more 3. But we further say That laying on of hands is not figurative but is a plain practical Ordinance joyned with solemn and fervent Prayer to the most High in the Name of Christ for his holy Spirit that according to his faithful and never-failing promise them that believe and are baptised in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ might receive the Spirit by which as the means the Spirit was given to some of the Baptised in the primitive times in more than an ordinary manner and was necessary to the establishing Christian Churches than which extraordinary Gifts of the Spirit given then is a confirmation to us now that not onely the other Principles of the Doctrine of Christ are to be believed and practised but this in debate also as one Principle of the Foundation of Christianity God having confirmed them all to be the Word spoken and Foundation-Doctrine taught by the Lord bearing witness to them both with Signs and Wonders and divers Miracles and Gifts of the holy Ghost according to his own will and then how shall we escape if we neglect so great Salvation Heb. 2.3 4. Quest 27. If you shall say That simply the Act and Ceremony it self as you practise it is put for a Foundation Doctrine of Christ then we demand Whether the Apostles ever taught any thing for a Doctrine of Christ whereof we do not read Christ did either preach or practise before his Ascension And if you say That Christ did teach and practise laying on of hands upon all Disciples both Men and Women before his Ascension or any thing from which such a practice may be inferred pray shew it and we will believe it Answer 1. We say That Prayer and Laying on of hands as we practise is a Principle of the Doctrine of Christ one of the first Rudiments of Christianity But you demand Whether the Apostles ever taught any thing for a Doctrine of Christ whereof we do not read Christ did either preach or practise before his Ascension 2. What is it to the purpose when Christ taught laying on of hands whether before his Passion or after or before his Ascention or after by his Spirit It sufficeth he did teach it for it is one of the Principles of his Doctrine And can it be a Principle of his Doctrine and he not teach it We are certain it cannot And taught it was likewise by his Apostles for a Doctrine-Principle and an Oracle of God Heb. 5.12 6.1 and they did not only teach but practise it also Act. 8.17 19.6 And do you think they would both teach and practise it and never receive it from Christ but must invent it themselvs We cannot believe you do so think Then was it taught by Christ and taught and practised by his Apostles as a foundation-Principle And that sufficeth us and might you if you were willing and obedient See this answered before in Christs Doctrine p. 58. Quest 28. If laying on of hands upon all baptised Believers be to be practised in your sence as an indispensable Duty then we demand Why all the other Principles in Heb. 6. should be expresly and particularly commanded believed or practised in Christs time and not this as it is practised by you if there be that weight in it as you lay upon it c. Answer 1. If laying on of hands say you upon all baptised Believers be to be practised in our sence as an indispensable Duty then you demand Why all the other Principles Heb. 6. should be expresly commanded believed and practised in Christs time and not this as it is practised by us if there be that weight in it as we lay upon it We told you above that it matters not when Christ taught laying on of hands whether in the time of his Life or not And whereas you say That Faith and Repentance the Baptism of Water the Resurrection of the Dead and eternal Judgement were in Christs time plainly taught Pray where did Christ in the time of his Life before his Ascension or after it either so plainly command baptising with water Though we do not deny but there was both Faith Repentance the Resurrection and eternal Judgement plainly enough taught according to that Dispensation and so they were before Christs Incarnation by the Prophets of old nor do we deny but grant that there was Authority enough from Heaven for the Baptism of Water then practised and that there was them that did fore-tell that the holy Spirit should be afterwards given and so it was by the Prophet Joel all which were as preparatives to what afterward Christ should command and teach when he had suffered and was risen and all power in Heaven and Earth was given unto him Mat. 28.18 So John was sent to prepare the way and he taught the Baptism of Repentance saying They should believe on him that was to come so that between both the Faith and the Baptism then and that after Christ was come had suffered ascended and the holy Ghost was given there must needs be a vast difference therefore as you affirm Paul baptised the twelve Disciples he found at Ephesus again because they were onely baptised into John's Baptism who as was his Baptism so was his Doctrine of Faith and Repentance John verily baptised with the Baptism of Repentance saying to the People That they should believe on him which should come after him that is on Christ Jesus Act. 19.4 From whence or from which Dispensation we do not take the Authority of the Foundation-Doctrine of Christ no not of Repentance Faith Baptisms Laying on of hands Resurrection and eternal Judgement but from Christ dead risen and ascended to the Father from whom he sent his holy Spirit to confirm them all to be his Doctrine on which he hath built his Church Yet might these Principles be nay doubtless were left and commanded by Christ before his Ascension which they better understood and put in practice when they were endowed with power from on high Acts 2. by the Spirit of Truth which Christ sent to them to guide them into all Truth John 16.13 and of them whom Christ commanded by word of mouth to observe and teach these Principles have we received them as the Doctrine of the Lord Jesus of which Doctrine laying on of hands on baptised Believers ● such is one Principle taught also by the Apostles and by them practised Acts 8.17 19. ● And if we

Doctrine of Christ because we deny or rather doubt of laying on of hands on all Disciples Men and Women as you practise it Answer 1. To say the Truth is not to be uncharitable and when we say you oppose or deny laying on of hands as you have done more than twenty years is not to be we hope uncharitable For that laying on of hands we practise you do deny and oppose though you may colour your opposition under the pretence of doubts and questions and under the pretence of owning laying on of hands to heal the Sick or to set Men apart to Office in the Church though not on all baptised Men and Women that they might receive the Spirit Nor is your reason by which you would wipe off that blemish sufficient for we may not as well say that those people which believe not that Christ died for all do deny the Death of Christ because the● do believe he died and died for them and more too But you do not believe that layin● on of hands on baptised Believers as such t●● ●●ey might receive the Spirit is the duty of any 2. Neither can it be said that the Hebrew Church denied the Priestly Office of Christ because they were dull of hearing and could not receive those great Mysteries thereof that were hard to be uttered Heb. 5.11 And though you pretend you are ignorant yet we think you would not take it well should we set you down for such And as for what you may say say your pleasure and say if you will many of us if you say true deny Christ took flesh of the Virgin Mary We can say and say truth that many of you deny Christ and have not God because you deny him to be God of one Substance with the Father and say that he is a created being and took his beginning in the Womb of the Virgin besides your denying laying on of Hands on all Disciples Men and Women as we practise Quest 34. Did you ever come to us or send any to us to lay Hands upon us and we rejected you why then ●●ould you reject us Answer When we first received laying on of Hands we were with you and continued reasoning ●●d perswading you to receive the truth but 〈◊〉 then opposed us and it yea and at length ●e hardned and believed not but spake evil of the way and then we departed and separated from you and know no reason we have to come or send to you to lay Hands on you except you repent and receive the truth candidly in the love of it until then we have reason to reject you Quest 35. Do we not practise laying on of hands upon Officers and are not many willing to submit to it a Members for peace and accommodation sake and together with you wait upon God for further light in this matter why then should you impose believing of it on us as a Command upon all Disciples both Men and Women I and such a Command as is essential to Communion and Church-membership when you have no such Command nor Example in all the Scriptures either that it was practised upon Men and Women that were Baptized or that it was judged essential to Communion or that it was ever practised but on the account of the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit or that it was ever administred on any if they had received the gifts of the Spirit before Till these sober Scruples are removed and the Duty of Laying on of Hands proved essential to Communion what ground have you to refuse Communion with us Answer We know not whether you practise laying on of Hands upon Officers or no but if you do what Command have you for it Nor are those terms for peace and accommodation sake sufficient Christ hath no need to be beholding to you Where do you read that any were received to or practised any Gospel Ordinance upon those terms We must therefore if you receive it from us impose it upon you as a Command upon all Disciples both Men and Women because it is so as appears Acts 8. for the Apostles practised no more in Holy and Divine Adoration and Invocation than what they were taught and commanded by their Lord and Master Christ to do yea and such a Command or rather Duty it is that is essential to Communion and Church-membership we having both Command and Example in the Scripture as we have shewed and it would ●e but reiteration to shew it here again nor was it practised upon the account of the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit the Scripture no where assigning them as the end thereof 2. And if the Scripture be silent in the ●ase of Laying on of Hands on Cornelius and his House it doth not follow but that he did receive laying on of Hands after he had received the Spirit as well as his being Baptised ●n Water after he had received the Spirit ●here being the same weighty and pressing rea●ons for both viz. Christ's Doctrine and Command We do not know when you will say your sober Scruples are removed for Laying on of Hands is proved to be essential to Communion therefore we have ground to refuse Communion with you Quest 36. Are you not divided among your selves in this matter have not some of you said Laying on of Hands was for Confirmation Others that it was for the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit Others that it was for the Spirit in any measure Answer We know not any that saith That Laying on of Hands was for the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit but you and others of your mind and if some do say that Laying on of Hands is for the receiving the Spirit in any measure and others will say it was for Confirmation there is not much difference between them we say then we are not divided among our selves about laying on of Hands Quest 37. Have not others of you both Printed and Preached that Laying on of Hands is one of the sever Pillars that Wisdom builded her house upon Prov. 9.1 and may not the Church of Rome as wel● prove her seven Sacraments from hence as you prove Laying on of Hands Besides do you 〈◊〉 by thus expounding the Word of God create sever Principles instead of six you talk of and may y●● not as well say that because the New Jerusalem Wall had twelve Foundations that therefore the Church must have twelve Fundamentals without which she cannot be a Church communicable Is not this making the Word of God like the Lesbian Rule who having built crooked and irregular so as the Work was not conformable to the Rule went and made their Rule conformable to their Work Answer 1. What if some of us have from those Pillars Wisdom builded her house upon Prov. 9.1 alluded to the Foundation Doctrine of Christ Heb. 6.1 2. and of the Apostles Eph. 2.20 But if you shall say that Heb. 6.1 2. makes mention but of six Principles and Prov. 9.1 mentions seven Pillars we hope you