Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	build_v	peter_n	rock_n	30,238	5	9.7701	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A39574	Rusticus ad academicos in exercitationibus expostulatoriis, apologeticis quatuor The rustick's alarm to the rabbies, or, The country correcting the university and clergy, and ... contesting for the truth ... : in four apologeticall and expostulatory exercitations : wherein is contained, as well a general account to all enquirers, as a general answer to all opposers of the most truly catholike and most truly Christ-like Chistians [sic] called Quakers, and of the true divinity of their doctrine : by way of entire entercourse held in special with four of the clergies chieftanes, viz, John Owen ... Tho. Danson ... John Tombes ... Rich. Baxter ... by Samuel Fisher ...	Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665.; Owen, John, 1616-1683.; Danson, Thomas, d. 1694.; Tombes, John, 1603?-1676.; Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.	1660 (1660)	Wing F1056; Wing F1050_PARTIAL; Wing F1046_PARTIAL; ESTC R16970	1,147,274	931

by it while it sits in supream Authourity on the Bench as the most perfect infallible Touch stone Lydius lapis and standing Rule for no lesse but much more thou wouldest have it even Light Rule of Trial Iudge Witnesse and all to which all Spirits even Gods own that gave it out as well as all false ones must stand or rather stoop and submit to be judged by and the foundation which the Church or World in the World or Wheel in a Wheel must stand or else fall and fail for ever for as there was a time wherein the Church which is but one from Abel till now can have but one and the same Rule bottom and foundation for ever and one Rock on which its built which is neither Peter nor Paul nor any of their Writings nor of any Prophets that wrote afore them but Christ the Light to the Nations and the Rock of Ages and Generations was without it and not placed upon it so there was a time of thousands of years together wherein it had no place nor use at all in the Church nor so much as any being in the World and as for such high place as thou in thy own will now alowest it as it s own as wise and quick-sighted as thou art to know and see non Entities and things that never were at all I know no such Place that God ever set it in nor time when he so super-eminently exalted it and though I acknowledge and am not ignorant as thou art that meer men and blind builders as seeing as thyself have Canonized it into the Head of the Corner laying him aside whom God hath made so yet I am to learn and so art thou for all thy hasty teaching it as Truth to others where ever the bare Letter or Scripture which is all one was created into such a Lord as thou lookest on it to be over his inward Light Spirit in the heart and authorized so infinitely as thou imaginest over all things by the Lord God of Heaven and Earth the only Author and Creator of all things J.O. Not only to detrade the Scripture from its place but also that by that one only device of denying to the Scripture that glorious Title of the Word of God the Quakers aim and endeavour to divest Christ himself of his Personality and divine Being Reply Was ever man left of God to shew his own Folly by more palpable apparent absurdities then thou here utterest who by that very thing whereby we seek to invest Christ with the proper and peculiar Right both in Name and Nature whereof your selves rob him belyest us so as to say we thereby seek to divest him of it Is not the Word of God not only the proper Name Ioh. 1. Rev. 19. but also the proper Nature and divine Being of Christ which he had before he was made flesh from the very beginning before the Scripture was that declares of him before World it self was which was made by him and all things in it so that without him nothing was made that was made And because that we will not take this glorious Title of his to whom only of Right it belongeth viz. the Word of God who hath no corruptible Word that I know but only one that 's incorruptible and liveth and abideth for ever and is both essentialiter and effective and enunciative too the Word of God and invest such a corruptible thing herewith as the mouldring Letter a Writing with mens hands which Worms may eat and mens Hands blot out deface and destroy and because we will not attribute that everlasting Name of his to that which in Nature is not everlasting as ye do but decaying dost thou say we divest him of his divine Being Dost thou not beget this bastardly businesse of divesting Christ himself of his divine Name and Nature Excellency and Existence in thy own brain by ascribing these to the Scriptures and giving the glory thereof to another under that high Prerogative Title of the Word of God due only and alone to him and not to any Letter that man as moved by him writes of him and then lay it at the door of the Quakers Art not thou the man that appropriatest that Name and Nature which is proper to Christ alone to the Scripture by disputing as to Name and Thing in esse reasi cognoscibili that it is the Word of God that glorious Title is its proper Name and is not this what in you lyes to dethrone Christ who only is so and place another ever him as the only most perfect Light Foundation Touchstone by which his Spirit must be tryed and yet accusest thou the Quakers of displacing him Doth not the Scripture say that Christ is the Light which the Church Ministerially is to hold out bear witness to Ioh. 1 in all her Preachings Administrations and Walkings and the Scripture is written out for the sake and Instruction and profit or use and service of the Church 2 Tim 3.15 16. 1 Cor. 10. yet settest not thou the Letter above the Church and Christ too saying Page 76. The Scripture is Light it is the duty of every Church to hold it up almost the whole of its duty and this Duty it performs Ministerially not Authoritatively A Church may bear up that Light it is not the Light it bears Witnesse to it but kindles not one divine beam to further its discovery All the Preaching that is in any Church its Administration of Ordinances all its walking in the Truth hold up this Light Thus magnifying the Letter above all and making it the main businesse of the Church to magnifie and hold it up much what as the Iewes do whose Work in their Synagogues is to lift up the Letter while they loath the Law and the Light it came from and is but the meer Letter or Writing of J. O. The whole Truth of the Words of God is as to Name and Thing opposed by the poor Fanatical Quakers Satan in these dayes assaults the sacred Truth of the Word of God in the poor deluded Fanatical Souls among us commonly called Quakers Reply It was none but Satan himself that is a Lyar the Father of it who told thee so and in thee tells it out for Truth to the whole World For 1. The whole Word of God which is but of one not of many kinds that I know of as thou wouldest make it as if God had one Living one Dead one Fallible another Infallible one Corruptible another Incorruptible one Eternal one Temporal Word one that 's only Letter another that 's Spirit and Life one Written and another Unwritten one within men and another that 's not the same in Nature without men that one and the same Individual Word of God I say which is the same whether within or without Written or Unwritten neither of which the bare Writing is as to both Name and Thing we own and honour as that which from

their feet are swift to shed blood that wasting and misery are in their wayes and the way to true peace they know not yet this one thing I must say too and of our Vniversity Scriblers pro Scripturis that as there are no men in the world more up to the ears in strife about the Scripture and their own Fancies on it as to matter and letter than the Scribes are so there is no one thing that the Scribes are striving scuffling and scolding at each other more about than about their Scriptures That light or word within and not the letter is the Foundation First I shall take account of what thou falsely assertest concerning the Scriptures being a Foundation Thou affirmest the Scriptures to be the Foundation of the Prophets and Apostles spoken of Eph. 2.20 pag 33. saying of them that men may quietly repose their souls upon them in beleeving and obedience and of your selves thus are we built 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. on the Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets and calling them Page 48. The Foundation of that world which he hath set up in this world as a Wheel within a Wheel his Church And page 154. The Foundation of faith hope and obedience And page 155. The Foundation of all that faith and obedience which he requires at our hands And page 316. The great and blessed Foundation of Truth All this I own to be very true of the Word of God of which the Scripture speaks but it is utterly false as uttered by thee of the Scriptures The falsehood of which appears plainly by this Argument 1. Argument That which is the great and blessed Foundation of all that truth faith hope and obedience that God requires at mens hands and of the Church and of the Apostles and Prophets must be something which was in being before any of these things were for the Foundation on which these are built must have a being before they can be built thereupon every Foundation being before the building can stand upon it But though the Word of God be so yet the Scripture is not before but long after that truth faith hope and obedience which God requires at mens hands and long after the Church and long after the Apostles and Prophets were yea after those Apostles and Prophets were Respectively who were the Respective pen-men thereof Therefore the Scripture the Writing the Letter the Greek and Hebrew Text is not the Foundation of any of these things The first Proposition is so true that it were no less then disparagement to I. O's wisdom to suppose him to be mentis inops to go about to prove it to him sith as he builds Castles in the air as easily thrown down as erected upon no better Foundation then his own fancy thoughts conjectures and imaginations yet he cannot be so senceless as to think that that Foundation be it what it will firm or brittle on which any thing is built must be before the building can stand thereon And as for the minor in every part thereof it 's as undeniably true to any save such as having once turn'd their backs upon the Truth are resolved to render themselves devoid of eithet Sense or Reason in their Reasonings against it then to own it For none else can deny but the Church and the Truth Faith Hope and Obedience of it and the Messengers Apostles Prophets Preachers of Righteousnesse such as were Enoch Noah Abraham Lot and others were in the Truth Faith Hope Obedience of the Gospel and also built upon Christ the Light the Word of God the Rock of Ages before Moses dayes who is unversally supposed at our Vniversities to have been the first Pen-man of the Scriptures The grand Master-place of Scripture that is us'd in proof hereof that the Scriptures are the Foundation is Ephes. 2.20 where it 's said by Paul to the Ephesians Ye are built on the Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ himself being the chief Corner-Stone Hence it is strenuously stickled for and as confidently as cloudily concluded by our doting Doctors and dreaming Divines that the Church of God as to all her Faith Hope Obedience Knowledge of the Truth is built upon the Apostles and Prophets Writings as that which is there called the Foundaeion whereas were they but at leisure from that lesser and lower literature wherein they are lost from the Lord and the Light and Life of God and the Letter also which issued forth from thence to look into the Light and by it into the Letter it self they more blindly labour for then truly learn by they would soon see that the Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets there spoken of is not the Apostles and Prophets themselves much less uncertain transcribed Copies of those few Fragments of their Letters and some other honest mens true stories of what was done in their times good instructions memorandums and litteral recommendations of wholsome Laws and Statutes most of which as laid down in the Letter saving that they remain in the truth and substance whereof they were the types figures and shadows are above 1600-years since cancelled and abolished Promises Prophesies Psalms Proverbs Parables occasional Letters Epistles and other Writings which such as fell into a foolish following and falling down before outward Images and from the infallible Spirit it self that their Scriptures were written to keepe men to found and fardelled together and fram'd in their own fancies into a Foundation of the Faith and of all the whole Fabrick of Religion to be for ever framed and founded upon But Christ Iesus himself who is there also called the chief Corner-stone and 1 Pet. 2.4 that living Stone disallowed indeed of men but chosen of God and precious on whom the Saints even all together with the Apostles and Prophets and the whole Houshold of God as Fellow-Citizens and lively Stones are built up a spiritual House to offer spiritual sacrifices yea all into one holy Temple or Habitation of God through the spirit This is the true and sole Foundation of all the matters before mentioned Christ Iesus the Rock of Ages on whom whoever believes shall not be ashamed Christ the living Word of God that also quickneth whose words are spirit and life to the hearers of his voice whose words uttered in the heart do good to those that walk uprightly this is the Stone that you Babel-builders refuse which God hath made the very head stone in the Corner Psal. 118.22 Matt 21.42 This verbum lumen internum Christ the eternal internal Word in the heart and Light of the World given a Light to the Nations and as such Gods salvation to the ends of the earth and the precious sanctuary to such as believe in his light is that stone of stumbling and Rock of offence to such as thee I.O. that stumble at the Word in their wrestlings for the Letter being disobedient unto both whereunto also they are appointed and a Gin and a Snare to the

Reason why I went so far in a talk comparatively to the Truth of Toyes and Trifles and was so taedious to my self and such as look't long since for an end of this labour and wasted so much paper in a work so worthless as it may seem to some as is fitter for J. O's Iuniors to be busyed in at their Schooles where Pueri tam Puerilia tractant then for men cal'd Ministers to medle too much with whose wisdom lies more if not in forgetting yet at least in forgoing frivolosities that are so Remote to the Souls Redemption then to fight so fiercely and foolishly for them as J. Owen does whom neither For nor Against but About them only I have much to do with so that bear with me in it if it must be deem'd my Folly the Ground of which piece of Folly is as followes In His Threefold Thing I found J. O. 1st in the Theses of his Latine Thoughts Glorying not a little in being on behalf of the Collegians among whom he was then a Chieftane intru●ted as he talks with the Task of contending for the Text of Scripture not so much against the Foes as under that name against the Truest Friends of both the Text and Truth as the Word of God properly as to Name and Thing and not only consequently but most expresly also both there and in the 1st of his two English Treatises the only most perfect Rule of all Belief and Holy Life Stable Standard True Touch-stone for Triall of all Truth Doctrines Spirits Speeches yea it s own also and the Sole sure Foundation for all True Faith to stand on and be discerned by from Falsehood Fable and meer Fancy and not only so but also Tiring himself in his Taedious second Treatise to evince the Entireness and Integrity of the said Text to every Apex and Tittle as at first it was given out without Addition Ablation or Alteration in the least ●ota or Syllable p. 153. in the Trans-scripts of it in the Original Languages how ever confessed by him to be Corrupted and Egregiously Adulterated in all Translations and insisting so uncessantly eagerly and earnestly in proof of the said Integrity of the outward Text as for hast to outrun all his own Reason and to Reject also the Uncontrolable Reasons of All others to the contrary putting also so great a stresse upon that poor Punctilio of the Hebrew Punctation as from a self-conceived Imagination and dangerlesse Affrightment to stickle for its Antiquity again●t those that on better grounds Iudg it to be Novelty and not Coaevous with the Consonants with such stric●ness as to deem all Divine Saving Truth lyes at stake and is Eternally Liable and likely to be lost if it be not as he conceives in these particulars for as is seen at larg in the book ensuing he Trembles to think what will be the Is●ue how desperate will be the con●equences of such a conclusion that the Text-mens Hebrew and Greek Transcripts are by mistake Mis-transcrbed in a Tittle and that the Points Vowells and Accènts were added to the Hebrew Text by the Tyberian Mastorites A Firebrand is brought into the Churches Bread Corn quoth he All 's utterly undon for ever as to any true Distinct Sound Certain Saving Knowledge of God or understanding of his Mind Will without either Remedy or hope of Recovery 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ther 's No firm footing nor Foundation to stand on No abiding Bottom at all to build on No Right Rule for the Faith and Obedience of the Church to be Regulated by No Word of God remaining uncorrupted No more means to be seen of being delivered from utter uncertainty in and about all Sacred Truth Epi●t p. 25. Nay though it be yeilded by his Antagonists that howbeit the Copies are Corrupted Altered and found Various in their Lections as to the meer Letter nevertheless the saving Doctrine as to the Substance of it Remains Sound and Entire in the Copies of the Original and the Translations that remain yet this is no Satisfaction to him he deems that the Saving Doctrine can't continue entire and uncorrupt and that their is no Relief against the Absolute Perishing of All Truth one of the World without any Rule or Measure of Iudging and Determining any more of it or Principle of Discovery or Medium of its Rectification or Recovery if every Tittle and Iota be not Preserved Entire or on supposition of any Corruption to have befallen the outward Writing p. 17. 18 19. Yea upon such Supposition that we have not every Letter Tittle Point Iota Syllable Accent c. as 't was in the Beginning of its Writing without Alteration by Ablation of any Apex or Addition of the Hebrew Punctation Gods Promise Isa. 59.21 Mat 5.18 Fails his Care of his Word and Church Fails he leaves it in uncertainties about the things that are the Foundation of all that Faith and Obedience he requires at our Hands so that we know not where to lay ● Sure Foundation of Believing yea 't is impossible we should come to any certainty almost of any Individual Word or Expression whether it be of God or no p. 55. Yea p. 212. out of Jo. Isaac He that Reads the Scripture without Points and so must they Read it ●oho did Read it before Points were say I as they did before Ezraes dayes if the Points were not from Moses is like a man that Rides a Horse without a Bridle and p. 214. 215. on this Hypothesis that the Points are added I know not saith J. O. how Bellarmines Inference can be avoided then which I know nothing in all his opposition to the Truth more Pernitiously spoken that partly by their Addition and partly by the Negligence and Ignorance of the Transcribers the Hebrew Scriptures which are not Uuniversally Corrupted by the Malitious Work of the Jewes are not yet so Wholly Pure and Entire but that Errours are Crept into them Yea they that are otherwise minded then those are who Maintain the Antiquity of the Vowels and Accents and with Radulph Cevallerius whose Opinion he sayes is his own that the Hebrew Language was written with them from the Beginning do not only make doubtfull the Authority of the Scriptures but even pluck it up by the Roots for without the Vowells and Notes of Distinction it hath nothing firm and certain p. 213. Yea so dangerous in the Consequence● of contending for Various Readings though not false nor pernitious that there 's nothing remaīning upon that account firm and unshaken p. 219. Without the owning of these Points to be of Divine Original we shall be left unto great uncertainty in all Translations and Expositions of the Scripture p. 292. Yea the distemper that there are cor●uptions befallen the Text Varieties from the first Copies is dreadfull and such as may well prove mortall to the Sacred Truth of the Scripture These Cuen multis aliis c. are the Extremities J. O. Asserts his Position in insomuch

his liberty to make his choice ex dieabus malis of those two evils seems to chuse the latter saying pag. 7. that as far as their personal concernments as Saints and beleevers lay in the Scriptures and in order to their saving knowledge of the truth they studied the Writings and Prophesies of one another I conclude then against I.O. that by that clause the Foundation of the Prophets and Apostles is not intended their Writings as if they laid their own Scriptures for the Foundation of the Church and her faith hope obedience but that which the Apostles themselves were built upon together with the whole Church or houshold of God which could not be nor was their own Writings but Christ the Light The Letter indeed is the foundation laid by I.O. and men of his mould of old for his Wheel in a Wheel as he speaks or his false Church whose works like his own run round on and are found to have in them Wheel within Wheel but as for the true Church of the living God which is the Wheel that will turn the worlds Wheels upside down it never did doth nor ever will acknowledge any fallible letter or meer transcribed Text or any other thing to be the true great and blessed foundation of Truth Faith Hope or Obedience then Christ Iesus the same yesterday and to day and for ever who was before it now is and ever will be when the letter shall be no more at all 2. Argument whatsoever the Scripture it self layes down and testifies to be the only true Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets and of the whole Church of God and of her Faith Hope and Obedience and of all Truth that is the only true foundation of all these things But the Scripture it self layes down and testifies Christ alone the Light the living Word and not it self to be the only true Foundation of the things aforesaid therefore Christ alone the Light Spirit and inward living Word that is nigh in the heart and not the Scripture it self is the only true Foundation of them The first and affirmative part of the minor is not denied by thee as the major cannot be and if thou deny the second part of the minor which is negative and denies the Scripture to testifie of it self in any place that its the Foundation then assign where the Scripture calls it self the Foundation or else own that it doth not and so that it is not the Foundation at all much less the truest or the only one as thou often intimatest either expresly or in terms equivalent it is Ep. p. 25 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not any means of standing out of utter uncertainty about all sacred truth if the Heb punctation be invention also p. 64 65. not a truer Foundation for for faith to repose it self upon 3. Argument if the Scripture be the foundation for the Church and all her Faith and Repentance to be founded and grounded upon then either there was no Foundation for it before the Scripture or else they who lived before the Scripture had one Foundation for their faith and we another and so consequently there hath been two Foundations for the one faith or the one Church or body of Christ but there was a Foundation before the Scripture and there are not two Foundations of faith one to that part of the body of Christ and of Gods building that was before the Scripture and another for that part that is built since the Scripture therefore the Scripture is not the Foundation Argument 4. The Foundation of the faith must be something that is infallible firm fixt certain stable sure and inalterable as the light Spirit and Word within onely is and Gods Foundation 2 Tim. 2 19. the Foundation of God sure to a Tittle for Error minimus in principio for major in medio maximus in fine the least fault or errour and deviation in the principle or Foundation of any building grows greater toward the middle and is greatest at the top as it is seen in a very Tower if the bottome or basis stands never so little awry as is discernable it is discerned more in the middle and much more still as it ascends higher But the Scripture letter Hebrew and Greek Texts how ever I.O. pleads their integrity in every Apex point tittle and iota yet are as I have shewed above more at large in answer to his long Tattle about the Tittles and points and indentity of Lections of the letter by his own confession mistaken and mistranscribed in small things yea and in some matters of more moment and importance in the best transcribed Copies of the Original Text therefore the Text or letter of the Scripture cannot be a fit Foundation for the Churches faith but the spirit and Word within is onely so Psal. 75.3 The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved faith Christ the Word of God I bear up the Pillars of it and that is the reason why the earth is so shaken as it is and reels to and fro that it is removed as a cottage and all helpers and healers avail nothing because they reject the corner stone Christ the Word for if the Foundations be destroyed what can the righteous do Psal. 11.3 Isa. 24. 18 19. Each of which Arguments hold good against the letters being the Rule the light the witness of God the Gospel the power of God to salvation the only means or way of coming to the saving knowledge of God Word of God and what ever other high Titles I. O. intitles it by as appears in their order That the Light or Word within and not the Scriptures are the Rule or Canon Another thing thou assertest of the Scripture is that it is the only Rule of the faith and obedience of Gods Church p. 173. that it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that more sure word of Prophesie to be attended to 2 Pet. 1.18 19 20. not in its self for so it was as sure as sure could be but in its giving out its evidence to us then that great miracle of miracles greater than which the Apostles of Christ never did behold or hear viz. That voice which came from the most excellent glory This is my beloved Son which we have greater security from and by according to Peter then they had in and by that miraculous voice That Moses and the Prophets which who so will not hear will not be perswaded to repent though one arise to them from the dead Luke 16.31 That Word Law and Testimony mentioned Isa. 8.20 according to which who speaks not are said to be in the dark so that there is no light in them by which what every one sayes be it what or whom it will Church or person if it be in and about the things of God concerning his will or worship or our obedience to him is to be tried That which we are sent to that which is and is asserted to be the

and truly partaking of the Divine nature and begotten by the light and living Word of Truth from death and darkness into a real union with it self by receiving with meekness 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the innate ingrafted word ●am 1.21 by which they become incorporated and as it were transubstantiated into one seed with it self having the Image and glory of God seen upon them and shining in and through them before the world men before whom let your light shine faith Christ Mat. 5.16 Is. 60.1 2 3 c. 2 Cor. 2. ult I say if such men may be stiled the Light of the world as Iohn Baptist was stiled by Christ a burning and shining light Joh. 35 36 then whom yet Christ had a greater witnes● Wil I.O. therefore prefer the dea● copies of the writings of those living men who wrote from the life light and Spirit of God moving before or at least into an equality with the holy men who under God were the Authors of those writings as they were at first which now are but the fallible ●andyworks of by his own confession but meer fallible Transcribers or if he will will any wise men of God become so foolish with him I trow not in as much as the work-man is more glorious than the work that issues either originally from or but subordinately through his own hands the Writer more honourable than his meer writing as Heb. 3.3 4. Hee who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house for as every outward Writing or Letter yee now have the use of was written by some man as every such house is built by some man but he of whom are all things and he that originally built all things is God indeed Yet me thinks I sent not only I.O. but T.D. also who is so a k●n to him that in most matters here hee prosecues the same point unless where he contradicts him and hobbles upon the same notions enthroning the Scriptures or outward Letter very high above the Church whose children it immediately was pend by the hands of and whose meer outward Engine the outward letter is insomuch that I.O. makes it not only dearer to God then the whole world besides p. 171. but also p. 76. the very Darling of God so that his Church whose servant the Letter is and for whose sake written is made by him but some subservant to hold out the honour of the Letter that it may bee the more conspicuous rather then to let her own light image grace glory which is that of God Isa. 10.1 2. shine out before man the duty t is quoth he almost the whole of the Church to hold up that some time and when wee say the Church is a Pillar and Ground of truth from 1 Tim. 3.15 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which words Pillar and Ground should not bee taken for the supporter or foundation nor inholder of truth in sensu Architectonico which T.D. denies ●e not dispute See p. 356. See p. 355. but grant him his sensum forensem or foreign sense of it in which I.O. also who sayes absurdly however that these words Pillar and Ground may in good coherence of speech refer to the words following viz. the mystery of godliness as well as to the Church will take it in and let them have it yet what follows that the Church is but the Ground and Pillar to set the Letter upon which I.O. calls the light and truth there and to hold forth only the outward literal publication as T.D. pleads p. 18 19. of his 2. Pamph. or the seat or place of residence for the Scripture as upon the Exchange in London are pillars and places upon which hang Tables and Proclamations in no wise surely for though the Pillars of the Exchange are for support as well as shew and so T.Ds. Simile doth not quadrare nor run on all four to bee sure yet to give them the sense of a pillar to hold up or hold out only yet that which the Church is the Pillar to hold up that is hold forth is the Truth whether by or without the Scripture of it between which Truth and the book they both sometimes do distinguish which truth or light is the Foundation or Pillar in sensu Architectonico on which the Church is built and not it on the Church as the letter is which under God the Church that gives no being to the truth or light nor kindles one beam thereof as I.O. sayes but only bears witness to it gives being to and so is in sensu Architonico the Pillar or Foundation of though in sensu forensi of the light and truth only for the Church is more honourable then the letter as the Builder or that which supports the house is more honourable then the house that receives being under God and preservation from it and its Prophets but its less honourable then the light and truth it lives by and hath its being from as a Church in respect of which light and truth t is confest it is not a pillar and ground in sensu Architectonico as it is of the letter but in sensu forensi only that is the seat place or pillar from whence it is held out and shines or as the Church is called Re● 1.20 Zach. 4.2 a golden Candlestick that serves to hold out in life and doctrine voice and writing the eternal Word of grace light truth and word of life conveyed in measure to her from the two Olive trees or anointed ones or sons of Oyl the living Word and Spirit that empty themselves into the golden Candlesticks feeding them therewith and from thence shining as God witnesses to the world which two witnesses shining and prophesying to the Church or Candlesticks and through them to the world in power and much patience and sufferings stand before the God of the whole earth Zach. 3. Rev. 11. And if the Saints born of the incorruptible seed the Word of God which liveth and abideth ever may bee stiled the Seed of God Will I.O. thence conclude that a corruptible Letter copied out by corrupt mens hands as the Scripture is at this day may be so stiled also The Word of God took upon him the nature and seed of Abraham but never took upon him however he is written of in it the proper nature of a dead Letter that was written with ink and pen by mens hands There was no time wherein the Word and Light by which all was made was made or born into the true nature of such a Letter but there is a time of its being made flesh and dwelling as their food in the Saints Joh. 1.14 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 natus est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Word was born flesh and dwelt in us Ioh. 6.51 to 64. the bread I give is my flesh c. howbeit all flesh is not the same flesh there is a flesh of Christ that if eaten with a carnal mouth would as so have profited nothing vers 63.

as are made Ministers by gifts of God from above and not such as buy their gifts at University that they may fell them again to be both needful useful and profitable both to the turning people of the world to the Light Word within that thereby they may be begotten into Christs Nature and also to the edifying of the Saints in their faith in that Light till they come up into the measure of the fulness of Christs stature a state which ye deny to be so much as attainable in this life so far are ye from building any up into it neither as much as we are call'd to cry out against you as all the true Prophets ever did against the hireling Priests do we at all cry down such gifts or gifted men as God gives to his Church but wot you well that your selves are the men who are found fighters against such who making the Gospel a meer trade to live on ingross that trade wholly to your selves and make every man a Teacher that has been train'd up at University and can handle his tongue well to talk for the Priests and Tythes though never fitted for that holy calling by the gift of Gods Grace or good life witness the general blindness and bruitishn●ss of the Brittish Priesthood but own no men as true Teachers but Deluders and Fanatick that in their Ministry do but pretend to be immediately gifted and guided by Gods Infallible Spirit And whereas we say that Christ Iesus receives gifts for all men even for the rebellious also and that no less then this gift that the Lord God may dwell in them if they look to him in his Light in which he draws nigh unto every man yet contrary both to us and that Text out of which you talk which compar'd with that Paul alludes to Ps 68 18. betokens such gifts for the rebellious do you deny All men to have so much as the least measure of such light as however attended to can lead to God oe to witness Gods dwelling in them The eighteenth is from Eph. 1.17 where Paul prayes That God would give them the spirit of Wisdome and Revelation of the knowledge of him that the ●yes of their understandings might be enlightned The Opinion of the Qua. say they of each mans light in him a sufficient safe rule and guide in his way to God makes it unnecessary to pray for the Spirit to enlighten mens eyes in the knowledge of God therefore indeed it is impious Rep. Who would think men should be so blind unless they wilfully shut their own eyes having some grace some measure of light renders it needless it seems by these Seers to pray for more and praying for more and more of Gods Spirit Light and Grace supposes it seems that there 's yet none at all and so upon this account the Church of the Ephesians as yet had no illumination by the Spirit any more then the rest of men because there was prayer made that they might be enlightned and David had none of Gods Spirit because he prayes to be established more and more by it and the humble have none of that Grace of God at all which is sufficient because they may have and God promiseth to give them more What f●ivilosity is this for Divines to be found in The nineteenth is urged from Psa. 19.12 Who can understand his errors In brief to this effect No men understand their errors therefore each mans Light in him is not a sufficient and safe rule and guide to him in his way to God Rep. If the falmists Interrogation affirmative concludes negatively and exclusively of any mens having any sufficient Light then it concludes universally also against All mens having any such light and so upon this account the Saints themselves are excluded as having no such Light as well as other men sith according to R. B. and I. Ts. sense on that place they understand not all the errours of their lives but R. B. and I. T. will not deny but the Saints have some measure of such Light and therefore why others have not though they use it not that ignorance of all their errors notwithstanding is more then these two men can give any good reason for The twentieth from Act. 17.30 runs thus God commands all men every where to repent of their ignorant worship of him therefore each mans sight in him is not a sufficient guide for him to go by in Gods worship Rep. From which premises I contrariwise conclude thus viz. therefore all and each man every where though few heed it hath a sufficient Light in him from God as the Heathen had though they glorified and worshipped him not according to that Light and knowledge of him they had Rom. 1.19 c. to guide him aright in Gods Worship who commands no impossibilities nor injoyns any man to worship him otherwise then answerably to what of himself and of his Will is by his own light made manifest in him The 21. is from Prov. 3.5.6.7 Rom. 12.16 on this wise The Quakers Opinion concerning each mans own light in him makes men proud and lifted up and prudent in their own sight to which wo is Isa. 5.21 and to lean to their own understanding and not to depend on God for teaching them in his wayes therefore c. Rep. Cuius contrarium verum est If by own Light these men straggle so far from the Question in hand as to intend as they seem to do mans own wisdome churs●l thoughts conceits imaginations c. no men in the world call men more out of these things so plainly so earnestly so constantly as the Quakers do but if they be steady in their dispute as good Disputants ought to be ad Rem substratam to the matter debated which is some measure of the true Light of God and Christ●s the calling to this is so far from making men lean to their own understanding and Independent on Gods teachings that there 's no man in the world can be said truly to be low emptied of self mean in his own eyes to trust in the Lord with all his heart and in all his wayes to acknowledge him to leave leaning to his own understanding to stand in Gods Counsel which woe to him who does not Isa. 38.1 to learn of God and depend on him alone for teaching to hear his voice c. though he scrape with the Scribes daily in the Scriptures themselves Iob. 5.35 36. till he betake himself to attendance to that which God sayes and shews in him by the measure of that Light wherewith God shines into his conscience Wo therefore unto these men that call Gods counsel mans conceit they are wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight though in the sight of God and his Saints not yet weaned from their foolishness as they are also of that Generation that are pure in their own eyes though not yet washed nor believing that while they live here they can