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count_v partem_fw-la donat_n &_o ep_v 165._o beside_o saint_n augu._n do_v not_o bring_v this_o exposition_n to_o derogate_v from_o saint_n peter_n primacy_n which_o he_o confess_v in_o 20._o place_n as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n and_o where_o for_o proof_n thereof_o he_o use_v the_o very_a word_n petra_n which_o here_o he_o distinguish_v from_o petrus_n call_v the_o seat_n of_o peter_n this_o rook_n numerate_v sacerdotes_fw-la ab_fw-la ipsa_fw-la sede_fw-la petri_n ipsa_fw-la est_fw-la petra_fw-la quam_fw-la non_fw-la vincunt_fw-la superbae_fw-la inferorum_fw-la porte_fw-fr reckon_v say_v he_o to_o the_o donatist_n the_o priest_n from_o even_o the_o seat_n of_o peter_n that_o be_v the_o rock_n which_o the_o proud_a gate_n of_o hell_n do_v not_o overcome_v how_o then_o do_v he_o deny_v s._n peter_n primacy_n and_o perpetuity_n of_o his_o sea_n again_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o may_v find_v other_o answer_n for_o saint_n augu._n himself_o in_o his_o retractation_n put_v both_o 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donatist_n who_o justify_v themselves_o as_o you_o sir_n knight_n justify_v your_o church_n much_o more_o of_o this_o may_v be_v say_v but_o this_o may_v serve_v to_o show_v you_o not_o to_o be_v in_o your_o right_a wit_n that_o brag_v of_o that_o which_o you_o ought_v most_o to_o be_v ashamed_a of_o and_o account_n that_o to_o make_v for_o you_o which_o make_v most_o against_o you_o 9_o for_o that_o which_o you_o talk_v of_o go_v out_o of_o egypt_n and_o babylon_n which_o you_o will_v have_v man_n understand_v the_o catholic_a church_n as_o if_o you_o be_v command_v to_o go_v out_o from_o she_o do_v but_o once_o show_v we_o that_o egypt_n and_o babylon_n which_o the_o sripture_n speak_v of_o be_v ever_o the_o true_a church_n and_o then_o you_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v say_v some_o what_o for_o your_o church_n departure_n from_o the_o roman_a which_o impudence_n itself_o can_v deny_v to_o have_v be_v once_o the_o true_a church_n you_o be_v bold_a indeed_o to_o say_v that_o babylon_n 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we_o and_o yet_o reformation_n deny_v by_o the_o pope_n both_o which_o be_v easy_o answer_v first_o by_o ask_v what_o all_o this_o be_v to_o his_o purpose_n suppose_v it_o be_v true_a do_v this_o show_n his_o church_n to_o have_v be_v always_o visible_a or_o we_o to_o have_v be_v at_o any_o time_n not_o visible_a he_o be_v not_o to_o stand_v upon_o matter_n of_o contention_n who_o be_v cause_n or_o not_o cause_v thereof_o or_o who_o will_v have_v mend_v who_o not_o for_o the_o error_n in_o faith_n which_o he_o seem_v to_o tax_v â—s_n withal_o in_o his_o three_o section_n if_o he_o can_v prove_v they_o he_o say_v somewhat_o indeed_o though_o yet_o not_o so_o full_o to_o his_o purpose_n for_o though_o he_o prove_v we_o to_o have_v have_v some_o error_n it_o do_v not_o so_o present_o follow_v that_o they_o of_o his_o side_n have_v have_v none_o or_o that_o therefore_o their_o church_n have_v be_v ever_o visible_a there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o require_v to_o it_o then_o so_o and_o though_o he_o shall_v prove_v some_o error_n to_o have_v be_v teach_v by_o some_o particular_a man_n or_o even_o in_o some_o country_n profess_v the_o catholic_a faith_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v fail_v in_o faith_n or_o cease_v to_o be_v visible_a 2._o second_o i_o answer_v to_o his_o second_o section_n which_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o contention_n proceed_v from_o we_o which_o he_o undertake_v to_o prove_v by_o our_o own_o confession_n that_o in_o all_o this_o section_n he_o bring_v but_o four_o authority_n to_o wit_n cassander_n a_o canon_n of_o his_o english_a church_n out_o of_o the_o praeface_n to_o jewel_n work_n camden_n cite_v s._n bede_n plessy_n morney_n cite_v michael_n caesenas_n of_o all_o which_o only_a s._n bede_n be_v a_o catholic_a and_o even_o cite_v by_o the_o protestant_a camden_n and_o only_o for_o a_o story_n which_o he_o tell_v of_o one_o redwalde_a king_n of_o the_o east_n saxon_n who_o be_v first_o convert_v to_o 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acknowledge_v inhaerent_a justification_n which_o caluin_n deni_v though_o in_o this_o he_o err_v that_o he_o think_v that_o inhaerent_a justify_n form_n to_o be_v imperfect_a and_o insufficient_a of_o itself_o to_o make_v man_n the_o adoptive_a child_n of_o god_n without_o the_o imputative_a justice_n of_o christ_n which_o alsoe_o be_v not_o so_o much_o caluinisme_n as_o lutheranisme_n but_o be_v it_o what_o it_o will_v bellarmine_n excuse_v pighius_fw-la in_o another_o respect_n to_o wit_n because_o he_o do_v not_o obstinate_o defend_v the_o error_n as_o caluin_n or_o luther_n do_v which_o be_v the_o main_a difference_n for_o it_o be_v not_o the_o error_n but_o the_o obstinacy_n that_o make_v a_o haeretique_n and_o so_o you_o see_v sir_n knight_n you_o have_v not_o one_o true_a word_n in_o all_o this_o section_n but_o let_v we_o now_o see_v your_o next_o 5._o chap._n 5._o the_o knight_n 5._o section_n wherein_o he_o undertake_v to_o show_v how_o worldly_a policy_n and_o profitt_a hinder_v the_o reformation_n of_o such_o thing_n as_o be_v unexcusable_a in_o themselves_o chapter_n v._n 1._o of_o this_o section_n there_o be_v not_o much_o to_o be_v say_v for_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o it_o but_o a_o little_a of_o the_o knight_n own_o rave_v for_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o now_o he_o see_v trental_n mass_n diriges_fw-la requiem_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a indulgence_n purgatory_n etc._n etc._n make_v article_n of_o faith_n he_o despayr_v of_o reformation_n to_o which_o i_o need_v make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o good_a sign_n that_o he_o find_v at_o last_o the_o strength_n of_o the_o church_n so_o build_v upon_o a_o rock_n as_o no_o tempest_n or_o wind_n can_v shake_v it_o but_o rather_o that_o by_o storm_n and_o tempest_n it_o grow_v strong_a the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v strengthen_v against_o all_o haeretique_n by_o the_o great_a authority_n on_o earth_n to_o wit_n a_o general_a council_n confirm_v by_o the_o see_v apostolic_a again_o he_o despair_n when_o he_o see_v maldonat_n say_v as_o he_o tell_v we_o practise_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n against_o his_o church_n and_o doctrine_n to_o wit_n he_o that_o be_v maldonate_fw-it interpret_n a_o place_n of_o s._n john_n allow_v s._n augustin_n explication_n as_o most_o probable_a though_o he_o rather_o approve_v another_o of_o his_o own_o because_o it_o more_o cross_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o caluinist_n this_o be_v it_o that_o drive_v he_o in_o to_o despair_v alas_o poor_a sir_n humphrey_n be_v all_o your_o bravery_n come_v to_o this_o what_o your_o hart_n fail_v you_o so_o in_o the_o beginning_n but_o it_o be_v no_o wonder_n such_o a_o cause_n may_v well_o make_v you_o despair_n and_o by_o your_o despair_n you_o show_v your_o doctrine_n to_o be_v false_a for_o true_a doctrine_n lose_v nothing_o by_o be_v impugn_a but_o rather_o gain_v as_o experience_n show_v in_o the_o catholic_a faith_n of_o which_o be_v verify_v the_o say_n of_o the_o prophest_n 11.7_o psal_n 11.7_o eloquia_fw-la domini_fw-la eloquia_fw-la casta_fw-la argentum_fw-la igne_fw-la examinatum_fw-la probatum_fw-la terrae_fw-la purgatum_fw-la septuplum_fw-la word_n of_o our_o lord_n be_v chaste_a word_n silver_n examine_v by_o fire_n try_v of_o the_o earth_n purge_v seven_o fold_n fire_n try_v but_o consume_v not_o gold_n but_o dross_n it_o show_v to_o be_v dross_n by_o consume_v it_o for_o maldonat_n he_o approve_v and_o commend_v s._n augustin_n explication_n but_o add_v another_o of_o his_o own_o not_o contrary_a nor_o disagree_v though_o different_a from_o it_o he_o prefer_v it_o because_o it_o be_v more_o against_o a_o haeretique_n so_o it_o be_v like_o s._n aug._n himself_o will_v also_o have_v do_v if_o he_o have_v be_v alive_a in_o these_o time_n for_o it_o be_v well_o know_v how_o in_o expound_v of_o scripture_n he_o still_o have_v regard_n to_o the_o confutation_n of_o these_o heresy_n which_o then_o reign_v and_o in_o one_o place_n he_o 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to_o wit_n how_o a_o ignorant_a man_n that_o be_v one_o that_o want_v knowledge_n or_o understanding_n shall_v pray_v with_o understanding_n and_o so_o i_o leave_v he_o of_o the_o 6._o section_n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o 6._o chap._n 6._o the_o common_a pretence_n of_o our_o adversary_n refuse_v reformation_n because_o we_o can_v assign_v the_o praecise_a time_n when_o error_n come_v in_o refute_v chapter_n vi._n 1._o here_o the_o knight_n be_v up_o again_o with_o his_o reformation_n and_o complain_v that_o we_o will_v not_o admit_v thereof_o nor_o acknowledge_v our_o doctrine_n erroneous_a unless_o he_o can_v assign_v the_o time_n and_o person_n when_o and_o by_o who_o the_o error_n come_v in_o which_o he_o seem_v to_o acknowledge_v he_o can_v do_v for_o he_o never_o go_v about_o it_o but_o only_o labour_v to_o disprove_v our_o exception_n against_o he_o by_o say_v that_o a_o man_n that_o be_v sick_a of_o a_o consumption_n ought_v not_o to_o refuse_v the_o help_n of_o the_o physician_n upon_o pretence_n that_o he_o can_v not_o tell_v the_o time_n and_o occasion_n when_o his_o body_n begin_v first_o to_o be_v distemper_v and_o out_o of_o s._n aug._n he_o say_v that_o when_o a_o man_n be_v fall_v into_o a_o pit_n and_o call_v to_o a_o passenger_n for_o help_n 19_o ep._n 19_o the_o passenger_n must_v not_o refuse_v to_o help_v he_o out_o upon_o pretence_n that_o he_o see_v not_o how_o he_o shall_v come_v to_o fall_v in_o he_o prove_v it_o also_o as_o he_o think_v out_o of_o scripture_n because_o in_o the_o parable_n of_o the_o cockle_n it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o enemy_n sow_v it_o when_o man_n be_v a_o sleep_n out_o of_o which_o he_o infer_v that_o they_o can_v not_o see_v or_o know_v he_o therefore_o he_o say_v that_o this_o defection_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o secret_a apostasy_n 13._o matth._n 13._o and_o therein_o he_o make_v the_o difference_n between_o haeresy_n and_o apostasy_n that_o haeresy_n be_v preach_v open_o so_o as_o the_o time_n and_o person_n may_v be_v name_v but_o not_o so_o this_o our_o secret_a apostasy_n haeresy_n work_v in_o the_o day_n apostasy_n in_o the_o night_n and_o then_o he_o reckon_v up_o some_o point_n as_o worship_v of_o image_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a the_o primacy_n of_o s._n peter_n and_o some_o other_o which_o he_o say_v be_v not_o so_o mean_v aâ—_n first_o as_o they_o be_v now_o practtize_v and_o believe_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n this_o be_v his_o jolly_a discourse_n frame_v in_o his_o own_o brain_n pan_n and_o sure_o ground_v as_o you_o shall_v find_v upon_o examination_n thereof_o which_o now_o i_o come_v unto_o 2._o he_o compare_v the_o creep_a in_o of_o error_n to_o the_o grow_v of_o a_o sickness_n in_o a_o man_n body_n and_o presume_v that_o because_o he_o say_v it_o we_o must_v therefore_o take_v those_o thing_n which_o he_o will_v have_v we_o for_o error_n he_o will_v present_o have_v we_o also_o fall_v to_o correct_v they_o without_o stand_v to_o examine_v far_o no_o more_o than_o a_o physician_n shall_v that_o come_v to_o a_o sick_a man_n but_o his_o comparison_n fail_v exceed_o for_o though_o there_o be_v some_o little_a likeness_n between_o the_o creep_a in_o of_o error_n and_o grow_v of_o a_o disease_n in_o a_o man_n body_n because_o both_o begin_v little_a and_o stel_o and_o increase_v by_o degree_n yet_o to_o our_o purpose_n none_o at_o all_o for_o the_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o we_o shall_v fall_v to_o cure_v the_o disease_n without_o examine_v the_o cause_n though_o by_o your_o good_a leave_n sir_n knight_n good_a physician_n use_v to_o inquire_v of_o the_o cause_n effect_n and_o other_o circumstance_n of_o the_o sickness_n which_o they_o come_v to_o cure_v but_o whether_o this_o that_o you_o say_v be_v a_o disease_n or_o sickness_n be_v so_o or_o no_o
obscure_o that_o posterity_n may_v rejoice_v at_o the_o clear_a knowledge_n of_o that_o which_o antiquity_n do_v reverence_n even_o before_o it_o come_v to_o be_v so_o know_v that_o in_o fine_a he_o must_v so_o theach_v which_o he_o have_v learned_a that_o though_o he_o deliver_v it_o in_o a_o new_a manner_n yet_o he_o deliver_v not_o any_o new_a matter_n and_o then_o ask_v a_o question_n by_o way_n of_o objection_n whether_o christian_a religion_n do_v not_o receive_v any_o increase_n or_o profit_n he_o answer_v yes_o very_o but_o in_o such_o manner_n as_o it_o may_v be_v true_o call_v increase_n not_o change_n for_o increase_n import_v a_o amplification_n or_o enlargement_n of_o a_o thing_n in_o itself_o change_n import_v a_o turn_n of_o one_o thing_n into_o a_o other_o and_o so_o he_o say_v the_o understanding_n knowledge_n and_o wisdom_n both_o of_o every_o man_n in_o particular_a and_o of_o the_o whole_a church_n in_o general_n may_v receive_v increase_n but_o so_o as_o to_o persist_v in_o same_o doctrine_n sense_n and_o judgement_n which_o he_o declare_v by_o the_o similitude_n of_o a_o man_n body_n which_o though_o it_o be_v great_a when_o he_o come_v to_o be_v a_o man_n then_o when_o he_o be_v a_o chile_n yet_o all_o the_o part_n and_o limb_n be_v the_o same_o so_o as_o though_o it_o receive_v increase_v yet_o no_o change_n the_o same_o he_o declare_v by_o another_o similitude_n of_o a_o grain_n of_o wheat_n cast_v into_o the_o ground_n which_o though_o it_o multiply_v in_o the_o growth_n yet_o it_o multiply_v only_o in_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o grain_n whereupon_o he_o conclude_v that_o the_o church_n be_v a_o diligent_a and_o wary_a keeper_n of_o the_o doctrine_n commit_v to_o her_o custody_n do_v not_o add_v diminish_v or_o any_o way_n change_n do_v not_o cut_v of_o what_o be_v necessary_a nor_o add_v any_o thing_n superfluous_a but_o with_o all_o industry_n so_o handle_v all_o ancient_a doctrine_n as_o if_o any_o have_v not_o receive_v their_o 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new_a so_o long_o as_o those_o it_o follow_v that_o he_o that_o deni_v the_o explication_n do_v deny_v the_o article_n and_o consequent_o frame_v unto_o himself_o a_o new_a belief_n 12._o and_o that_o the_o absurdity_n of_o sir_n humphrey_n argument_n may_v yet_o appear_v more_o manifest_o i_o add_v that_o any_o haeretique_n that_o ever_o be_v may_v by_o the_o very_a same_o manner_n of_o argument_n challenge_v antiquity_n to_o himself_o and_o accuse_v we_o of_o novelty_n for_o he_o may_v say_v such_o a_o thing_n be_v not_o the_o fide_fw-la before_o such_o a_o council_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v new_a and_o that_o he_o believe_v only_o that_o which_o be_v believe_v before_o that_o council_n ergo_fw-la he_o believe_v the_o ancient_a faith_n which_o argument_n if_o it_o be_v good_a in_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v good_a in_o they_o and_o consequent_o he_o must_v disallow_v the_o decree_n of_o all_o counsel_n as_o novelty_n and_o approve_v all_o heresy_n for_o the_o ancient_a belief_n which_o be_v so_o great_a and_o manifest_a a_o absurdity_n he_o will_v not_o sure_a for_o shame_n admit_v and_o consequent_o must_v allow_v of_o vincentiu_n his_o authority_n and_o the_o answer_n out_o of_o he_o to_o wit_n that_o counsel_n in_o define_v matter_n of_o faith_n do_v not_o coin_v a_o new_a faith_n but_o declare_v explicate_v and_o define_v the_o old_a which_o that_o sir_n humphrey_n may_v the_o better_a conceive_v i_o shall_v here_o in_o a_o word_n urge_v he_o with_o a_o example_n of_o his_o own_o church_n thus_o the_o church_n of_o england_n admit_v of_o diverse_a book_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o canonical_a whereof_o there_o be_v doubt_n for_o three_o or_o four_o hundred_o year_n together_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n as_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o hebrew_n the_o second_o epistle_n of_o s._n peter_n the_o ep._n of_o s._n jude_n the_o apocalypse_n of_o s._n john_n and_o some_o other_o which_o be_v after_o admit_v for_o canonical_a now_o i_o will_v know_v of_o he_o whether_o upon_o the_o admittance_n of_o they_o there_o be_v any_o change_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o church_n or_o whether_o even_o those_o book_n have_v receive_v any_o change_n in_o themselves_o he_o can_v say_v they_o do_v and_o there_o by_o he_o may_v answer_v himself_o and_o see_v plain_o that_o the_o change_n which_o seem_v to_o be_v be_v not_o in_o the_o thing_n to_o be_v believe_v but_o in_o we_o that_o be_v to_o believe_v they_o because_o upon_o such_o definition_n or_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n we_o be_v oblige_v to_o believe_v they_o which_o it_o may_v be_v we_o be_v not_o before_o and_o this_o may_v suffice_v for_o this_o matter_n of_o new_a article_n of_o belief_n which_o sir_n humphrey_n will_v feign_v father_n upon_o us._n 13._o another_o thing_n which_o he_o much_o build_v upon_o and_o whereby_o he_o think_v to_o prevail_v against_o we_o in_o the_o authority_n of_o some_o particular_a doctor_n or_o schoolman_n of_o the_o church_n differ_v among_o themselves_o in_o some_o point_v not_o define_v by_o the_o church_n at_o such_o time_n as_o they_o do_v dispute_v thereof_o though_o afterward_o they_o be_v but_o any_o man_n of_o judgement_n will_v present_o see_v that_o this_o be_v but_o to_o delude_v the_o simple_a sort_n of_o people_n of_o his_o own_o side_n who_o he_o think_v to_o make_v believe_v any_o thing_n for_o who_o do_v not_o know_v that_o catholic_n bind_v themselves_o only_o to_o defend_v the_o catholic_a faith_n which_o neither_o do_v nor_o can_v depend_v upon_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o one_o private_a doctor_n how_o learned_a soever_o for_o neither_o be_v any_o thing_n count_v faith_n till_o it_o be_v teach_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n or_o common_a consent_n of_o doctor_n 4._o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 4._o for_o so_o say_v vincentius_n lerinensis_n express_o that_o we_o be_v to_o believe_v without_o doubt_v not_o what_o one_o or_o two_o master_n teach_v but_o what_o all_o with_o common_a consent_n hold_v write_v and_o teach_v plane_o frequent_o and_o perseverant_o 39_o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 39_o and_o this_o as_o he_o say_v else_o where_o non_fw-fr in_o omnibus_fw-la divinae_fw-la legis_fw-la questiunculis_fw-la sed_fw-la quidem_fw-la certe_fw-la praecipuè_fw-la in_o fidei_fw-la regula_fw-la not_o in_o all_o small_a question_n of_o the_o divine_a law_n but_o chief_o in_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n which_o sir_n humphrey_n can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o but_o only_o that_o he_o lift_v still_o to_o be_v limp_a and_o wilful_o dissemble_v the_o truth_n for_o if_o he_o have_v take_v notice_n of_o this_o he_o will_v have_v have_v less_o to_o say_v though_o he_o say_v not_o much_o even_o now_o with_o all_o the_o dissemble_n he_o can_v devise_v 14._o neither_o will_v it_o serve_v his_o turn_n to_o say_v that_o we_o urge_v he_o and_o his_o minister_n out_o of_o their_o
to_o we_o or_o ever_o say_v word_n in_o proof_n that_o the_o case_n be_v the_o same_o i_o may_v with_o as_o much_o reason_n out_o of_o this_o story_n of_o redwalde_n say_v as_o much_o of_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v that_o he_o and_o his_o protestant_n have_v build_v a_o new_a church_n a_o new_a faith_n erect_v a_o altar_n against_o a_o altar_n etc._n etc._n 3._o but_o as_o i_o be_v say_v of_o his_o author_n they_o be_v not_o many_o as_o you_o see_v much_o less_o have_v they_o any_o part_n among_o catholic_n for_o cassander_n michael_n de_fw-fr caesenas_n and_o philip_n morney_n be_v in_o the_o index_n of_o forbid_a book_n camden_n and_o his_o english_a canon_n writer_n be_v protestant_n but_o which_o be_v more_o strange_a not_o a_o man_n of_o these_o such_o as_o they_o be_v that_o say_v any_o thing_n of_o that_o which_o he_o pretend_v in_o the_o title_n of_o his_o chapter_n but_o only_o cassander_n who_o after_o the_o fashion_n of_o haretique_n speak_v of_o the_o pomp_n and_o pride_n of_o the_o clergy_n and_o that_o they_o will_v not_o hearken_v to_o the_o admonition_n of_o some_o godly_a man_n advise_v reformation_n these_o godly_a man_n he_o mean_v such_o as_o himself_o that_o be_v haeretique_n or_o next_o door_n to_o they_o though_o sir_n humphrey_n please_v often_o to_o call_v he_o a_o learned_a romanist_n so_o that_o all_o the_o cause_n that_o even_o this_o man_n allege_v of_o the_o contention_n be_v because_o the_o ecclesiastical_a person_n will_v not_o yield_v themselves_o to_o haeretique_n and_o let_v they_o have_v the_o order_n and_o dispose_n of_o all_o thing_n at_o their_o pleasure_n therefore_o they_o break_v away_o and_o fall_v into_o contention_n with_o the_o church_n what_o cause_n do_v clergy_n man_n give_v of_o contention_n in_o not_o submit_v themselves_o to_o their_o inferior_n and_o to_o man_n that_o have_v no_o authority_n over_o they_o or_o even_o if_o the_o counsel_n of_o these_o people_n be_v good_a as_o it_o be_v not_o and_o that_o clergy_n man_n think_v not_o good_a to_o follow_v it_o must_v they_o therefore_o present_o fall_v to_o schism_n and_o haeresy_n tear_v and_o rent_v the_o church_n by_o what_o law_n be_v clergy_n man_n bind_v to_o obey_v such_o fellow_n if_o in_o a_o civil_a commonwealth_n some_o great_a man_n shall_v dislike_v the_o government_n either_o because_o his_o enemy_n have_v the_o manage_n of_o matter_n or_o that_o he_o thimk_v he_o can_v do_v it_o better_o than_o they_o and_o presume_v to_o give_v counsel_n to_o the_o prince_n and_o his_o counsel_n they_o shoull_n not_o follow_v it_o and_o that_o therefore_o he_o shall_v go_v from_o court_n make_v head_n and_o raise_v a_o rebellion_n in_o the_o common_a wealth_n who_o shall_v be_v count_v cause_n of_o this_o contention_n the_o prince_n and_o his_o counsel_n or_o he_o if_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v judge_n he_o must_v say_v the_o prince_n and_o his_o counsel_n if_o he_o will_v make_v good_a his_o man_n cassander_n discourse_n 4._o as_o for_o michael_n de_fw-fr caesena_n who_o the_o knight_n also_o call_v a_o learned_a friar_n it_o be_v true_a he_o be_v a_o friar_n and_o general_n of_o his_o order_n but_o for_o his_o learning_n i_o never_o hear_v any_o such_o commendation_n of_o it_o but_o we_o know_v why_o the_o knight_n praise_v he_o well_o be_v it_o so_o but_o the_o man_n be_v excommunicate_v and_o depose_v by_o the_o pope_n for_o his_o disobedience_n and_o rebellion_n he_o say_v that_o particular_a man_n which_o be_v john_n 22._o be_v a_o apostata_fw-la and_o a_o heretic_n and_o therefore_o no_o true_a pope_n but_o that_o he_o make_v two_o such_o church_n one_o of_o the_o wicked_a under_o the_o pope_n another_o of_o the_o good_a without_o any_o head_n as_o morney_n make_v he_o make_v and_o this_o knight_n out_o of_o he_o i_o find_v not_o in_o any_o good_a author_n but_o rather_o that_o he_o allow_v of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o he_o appeal_v from_o the_o pope_n sentence_n to_o it_o as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o coquus_fw-la his_o answer_n to_o morney_n mystery_n of_o iniquity_n pag._n 205._o to_o 2._o and_o in_o the_o table_n verbo_fw-la michael_n de_fw-fr coesena_n neither_o be_v he_o ever_o tax_v with_o any_o such_o haeresy_n 5._o his_o english_a church-canon_n command_v nothing_o to_o be_v teach_v as_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o what_o be_v agreeable_a to_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n and_o be_v collect_v out_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o catholic_a bishop_n but_o what_o be_v that_o to_o the_o purpose_n how_o do_v this_o prove_v we_o to_o give_v the_o cause_n of_o contention_n he_o will_v say_v this_o prove_v his_o man_n to_o give_v none_o i_o answer_v that_o if_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o their_o canon_n and_o proceed_n be_v answerable_a to_o the_o say_n of_o this_o canon_n there_o will_v perhaps_o be_v somewhat_o less_o to_o do_v though_o it_o be_v not_o any_o way_n conformable_a to_o the_o scripture_n and_o doctrine_n of_o father_n for_o lay_v authority_n to_o make_v canon_n for_o clergy_n man_n and_o therefore_o the_o practice_n show_v in_o this_o canon_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o word_n and_o so_o the_o 2._o section_n be_v answer_v 6._o the_o three_o section_n be_v of_o corruption_n both_o in_o faith_n and_o manner_n which_o the_o knight_n say_v we_o confess_v and_o yet_o deny_v to_o reform_v he_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o council_n of_o pisa_n where_o alexander_n the_o 5._o 20._o council_n pisan_n sess_v 20._o promise_v to_o attend_v to_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n and_o out_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n acknowledge_v many_o thing_n amiss_o in_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n mass_n etc._n etc._n to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o matter_n of_o manner_n we_o willing_o acknowledge_v reformation_n to_o be_v needful_a and_o such_o it_o be_v that_o these_o two_o counsel_n speak_v of_o and_o have_v perform_v as_o be_v to_o beseene_v by_o their_o decree_n though_o the_o former_a be_v not_o of_o any_o great_a authority_n 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wilful_a corruption_n the_o same_o council_n likewise_o complain_v of_o many_o thing_n creep_v in_o in_o the_o celebration_n of_o mass_n by_o the_o fault_n of_o the_o time_n or_o carelessness_n and_o wickedness_n of_o man_n which_o be_v far_o from_o the_o dignity_n of_o so_o great_a a_o sacrifice_n the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n be_v right_o cite_v by_o he_o in_o latin_a in_o the_o margin_n perhaps_o to_o save_v his_o credit_n by_o sincerity_n so_o much_o promise_v in_o his_o epistle_n dedicatory_a but_o in_o the_o english_a which_o go_v in_o the_o text_n he_o foul_o corrupt_v they_o they_o be_v thus_o in_o latin_a cum_fw-la multa_fw-la irrepsisse_fw-la videantur_fw-la which_o in_o english_a be_v this_o see_v many_o thing_n seem_v to_o have_v creep_v in_o which_o the_o knight_n translate_v thus_o there_o be_v many_o error_n and_o corruption_n creep_v in_o to_o the_o mass_n which_o be_v a_o gross_a error_n and_o corruption_n in_o the_o knight_n the_o council_n speak_v only_o of_o abuse_n which_o be_v creep_v in_o not_o of_o error_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n the_o council_n likewise_o seem_v to_o acknowledge_v the_o avarice_n of_o priest_n make_v such_o bargain_n for_o the_o say_n of_o mass_n as_o be_v not_o far_o from_o simony_n or_o at_o least_o filthy_a lucre_n it_o speak_v of_o the_o use_n of_o music_n where_o with_o some_o wantonness_n be_v mix_v as_o alsoe_o of_o certain_a mass_n or_o candle_n use_v in_o certain_a number_n that_o number_n proceed_v rather_o from_o superstition_n then_o true_a religion_n this_o be_v true_a so_o far_o 7._o but_o that_o be_v not_o true_a which_o the_o knight_n say_v that_o we_o deny_v a_o reformation_n of_o these_o thing_n for_o to_o what_o other_o end_n be_v they_o recount_v there_o but_o to_o be_v reform_v nay_o they_o be_v not_o
it_o be_v so_o still_o for_o as_o hebrew_n greek_a and_o latin_a be_v then_o the_o most_o know_a tongue_n in_o which_o only_a the_o scripture_n be_v write_v and_o public_o read_v so_o the_o same_o language_n be_v still_o use_v partly_o because_o they_o be_v sacred_a and_o partly_o because_o they_o be_v most_o know_v what_o then_o make_v that_o against_o our_o latin_a mass_n or_o rather_o be_v it_o not_o a_o proof_n of_o our_o antiquity_n and_o disproof_n of_o his_o novelty_n against_o image-worship_n he_o talk_v of_o the_o 2._o commandment_n and_o the_o hate_n of_o the_o jew_n against_o image_n he_o bring_v the_o testimony_n of_o some_o haeretique_n against_o they_o and_o the_o say_n of_o some_o one_o divine_a of_o the_o manner_n of_o worship_n and_o the_o reprehension_n of_o other_o against_o the_o abuse_n commit_v in_o the_o adoration_n of_o they_o out_o of_o all_o which_o set_v the_o testimony_n of_o haeretique_n a_o part_n i_o ask_v what_o he_o will_v conclude_v or_o how_o he_o disprove_v our_o worship_n which_o we_o allow_v or_o how_o the_o reprehension_n of_o abuse_n in_o some_o of_o the_o simple_a sort_n of_o catholic_n suppose_v there_o be_v some_o such_o abuse_n prove_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o his_o image_n break_v or_o the_o truth_n and_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n though_o his_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n be_v but_o only_o the_o denial_n of_o we_o now_o we_o prove_v over_o and_o above_o out_o of_o ancient_a father_n and_o counsel_n the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o worship_v of_o saint_n and_o their_o picture_n last_o of_o indulgence_n he_o say_v out_o of_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n and_o father_n for_o the_o antiquity_n of_o they_o to_o which_o we_o answer_v that_o as_o this_o notwithstanding_o these_o very_a man_n do_v not_o deny_v the_o antiquity_n of_o indulgence_n for_o want_n of_o such_o proof_n so_o other_o also_o prove_v the_o ancient_a use_n of_o they_o even_o out_o of_o other_o most_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n howsoever_o the_o controversy_n among_o those_o divine_n be_v not_o of_o the_o indulgence_n themselves_o or_o doctrine_n but_o only_o of_o the_o use_n of_o they_o or_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o that_o one_o or_o two_o divine_n do_v think_v amiss_o of_o they_o do_v that_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n of_o his_o doctrine_n may_v not_o those_o very_a divine_n be_v against_o he_o in_o other_o thing_n what_o ancient_a author_n of_o authority_n have_v he_o bring_v to_o prove_v his_o doctrine_n not_o durand_n nor_o any_o man_n else_o whosoever_o be_v by_o he_o pretend_v to_o think_v hard_a of_o they_o &_o though_o he_o have_v durand_n whole_o for_o he_o how_o can_v his_o bare_a authority_n or_o say_n make_v the_o deny_v doctrine_n ancient_a be_v but_o 400._o year_n ago_o or_o universal_a be_v but_o one_o man_n and_o contradict_v by_o other_o 6._o and_o thus_o have_v make_v a_o review_v opposite_a to_o he_o i_o will_v fain_o see_v what_o any_o man_n can_v find_v shall_v move_v man_n much_o less_o angel_n to_o witness_v the_o antiquity_n or_o universality_n of_o his_o doctrine_n nay_o do_v not_o his_o manner_n of_o proof_n rather_o show_v the_o sleightnes_n and_o novelty_n thereof_o together_o with_o the_o strange_a vanity_n of_o a_o brave_a knight_n that_o brag_v his_o church_n before_o luther_n be_v in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n in_o the_o father_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n praetend_v right_o to_o the_o father_n apostle_n and_o christ_n without_o show_v any_o shadow_n of_o succession_n that_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n which_o he_o be_v to_o have_v do_v here_o and_o indeed_o the_o only_a proper_a proof_n for_o a_o man_n that_o will_v profess_v right_a to_o such_o ancestor_n and_o this_o be_v indeed_o the_o proof_n which_o tertullian_n do_v exact_a at_o the_o hand_n of_o some_o haeretique_n who_o claim_v antiquity_n and_o will_v needs_o have_v their_o doctrine_n pass_v for_o apostolic_a because_o they_o be_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n 32._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 32._o edant_fw-la ergo_fw-la say_v he_o origines_fw-la ecclesiarum_fw-la suarum_fw-la evoluant_fw-la ordinem_fw-la episcoporum_fw-la suorum_fw-la ita_fw-la per_fw-la successiones_fw-la ab_fw-la initio_fw-la decurrentem_fw-la ut_fw-la primus_fw-la ille_fw-la episcopus_fw-la aliquem_fw-la ex_fw-la apostolis_n etc._n etc._n let_v they_o show_v the_o beginning_n of_o their_o church_n let_v they_o unroull_a or_o lay_v open_a the_o order_n or_o catalogue_n of_o their_o bishop_n so_o run_v by_o succession_n from_o the_o beginning_n that_o that_o first_o bishop_n have_v for_o author_n or_o praedessor_n some_o one_o of_o the_o apostle_n or_o apostolical_a man_n who_o yet_o have_v persevere_v with_o the_o apostle_n for_o in_o this_o manner_n the_o apostolic_a church_n draw_v down_o their_o pedigree_n as_o the_o church_n of_o smyrna_n recount_v polycarpe_n place_v by_o john_n the_o roman_a church_n clement_n ordain_v by_o peter_n &_o so_o other_o church_n show_v who_o they_o have_v have_v place_v bishop_n by_o the_o apostle_n as_o it_o be_v branch_n of_o the_o apostolical_a seed_n let_v the_o haeretique_n feign_v any_o such_o thing_n so_o he_o do_v you_o hear_v tertullian_n sir_n humphrey_n brag_v then_o if_o you_o think_v good_a still_o we_o give_v you_o leave_v that_o your_o church_n be_v ancient_o in_o christ_n in_o the_o apostle_n father_n and_o bosom_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n without_o show_v any_o such_o succession_n of_o bishop_n draw_v down_o from_o the_o apostle_n 7._o now_o than_o that_o you_o have_v speak_v so_o well_o of_o the_o certainty_n of_o your_o own_o belief_n let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o say_v of_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o we_o wherewith_o you_o begin_v thus_o that_o for_o far_a proof_n of_o your_o cause_n you_o will_v give_v another_o summons_n to_o the_o prime_a man_n even_o of_o our_o grand_a inquest_n who_o without_o partiality_n will_v testify_v on_o your_o behalf_n that_o your_o church_n be_v build_v upon_o a_o more_o stable_n and_o sure_a foundation_n than_o the_o now_o roman_a church_n and_o that_o your_o doctrine_n be_v more_o fruiteful_a and_o profitable_a and_o every_o way_n more_o safe_a and_o comfortable_a for_o the_o belief_n of_o every_o christian_a and_o salvation_n of_o the_o believer_n which_o you_o prove_v lay_v way_n for_o a_o ground_n what_o bellarmine_n say_v that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a by_o the_o certainty_n of_o faith_n that_o he_o do_v receive_v a_o true_a sacrament_n because_o that_o depend_v upon_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o minister_n whereof_o no_o man_n can_v be_v certain_a by_o which_o one_o tenet_n you_o say_v we_o overthrow_v all_o certainty_n of_o true_a faith_n which_o you_o exemplify_v in_o baptism_n wherein_o if_o there_o want_v the_o intention_n of_o the_o baptizer_n the_o baptise_a be_v still_o a_o heathen_a and_o in_o state_n of_o damnation_n so_o of_o order_n if_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o ordain_a fail_n it_o be_v no_o sacrament_n and_o consequenty_n if_o this_o intention_n be_v want_v in_o the_o ordination_n of_o pope_n all_o succeed_a ordination_n will_v be_v void_a so_o also_o of_o matrimony_n if_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o minister_n want_n it_o be_v but_o fornication_n etc._n etc._n thus_o you_o roll_v on_o sir_n humphrey_n in_o your_o discourse_n but_o you_o must_v give_v we_o leave_v to_o have_v a_o word_n or_o two_o with_o you_o before_o you_o go_v far_o you_o give_v another_o summons_n to_o the_o prime_a man_n of_o our_o grand_a inquest_n wherein_o notwithstanding_o i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o you_o observe_v any_o order_n or_o number_n of_o your_o jurour_n as_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v observe_v in_o a_o jury_n whereupon_o i_o begin_v to_o think_v that_o you_o use_v this_o phrase_n of_o summons_n and_o grand_a inquest_n for_o the_o ever_o honour_a memory_n of_o your_o dear_a decease_a father_n who_o be_v one_o of_o the_o most_o famous_a 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