and which he hath set downe in malitious Articles and interrogatories shall be answered neither doe I meane therein to omit any speach that shall seeme any way pertinent to purpose being loth he should say he was not answered Wherein if you see no colour or shew of reason for this newfound platformes or proofe of his accusation consider then I pray you first what indignitie hath ben offered by this libellor to the Church of God to her Maiestie and her lawes to the Ecclesiasticall state and such as liue in obedience of lawes and secondly what they deserue that haue offered this indignitie vnto so many and honorable persons and brought this scandale into the Church of God the common 1 Rescius iâ— ministromach aduersarie maketh profite of those shameles slaunders which those vnciuil and vnlettered authors of the Admonition haue vttered against the Church the aduersarie triumpheth to see this contention disordered companions take occasion of contumacie and rebellion when will the gouernors vse like diligence to represse them If then you loue religion her Maiestie and the state you will not suffer such notorious reuellors at lawes and gouernors if you be desirous of trueth you will no more be abused with vaine gloses H. Nicholas hath painted his booke with quotations as full as T.C. he vseth the same stile and seemeth to haue the same erronious spirit He saith as well as T.C. that for Sions sake 2 In euangel regni he will not holde his peace and yet nether of both speaketh to purpose nor to the edifying but rather the pulling downe of Gods Church and therefore seing both the authors and their dealings haue bene tried let them be both dealt with all and esteemed according to their deserts It may be these felowes looked for answere of her Maiestie and to say sooth the Magistrate were most fitte to shape aunsweres for such disordered petitions but in the meane while it may please them to accept of my answere they are no such high persons but meaner men then her Maiestie may answere them reason it is seing they put their petition in print they should also receiue a printed answere and seing they chalenge me they should heare my answere And let them not thinke but that howsoeuer their malice is repressed by lawe their fond assertions and cauils shal be refuted by reason That trueth may appeare I haue done my endeuour God is my witnesse I seeke for nothing but trueth and peace there rosteth then nothing but that trueth be embraced and lawe maintained for little auaileth it to knowe either if by faction mutinie lawes may be broken trueth oppressed to make trueth and Iustice knowen it belonged to vs to defend the same belongeth to Magistrates to wish the same to all reade therefore and iudge and seeke the maintenance of Iustice and trueth without which neither Church nor state can be well gouerned AN ANSWERE TO A CERtaine calumnious Petition and also to certaine Articles and Questions of the Consistorian faction CAP. I. Wherein is declared that the authoritie and state of Bishops as it is vsed in England is lawfull and the Petitioners cauils brought to the contrary answered ALmightie God when he gaue Magistrates and Lawes vnto his Church appoynted first and next vnder the soueraigne Magistrate one high Priest to haue the 1 Deut. 17. leuit 13. exod 28. nom 3. 4. superintendence of the affaires of the church and vnder him 2 1. Chron. 24. 25. diuers heads of their diuisions that things might be done in order And lest wee might suppose that this was but a ceremoniall constitution vnder the Law of nature the chieftie of the Priesthoode ouer all his was first in Noe then in Sem then in Abraham then in Isac and Iacob afterward in the 12 Patriarkes which for many yeres gouerned their whole families both in matters diuine and humane If equalitie of ministers had bene so profitable no doubt God would haue vsed that order in his Church The Lawe ceremoniall ceasing our Sauiour ruled his Church as soueraigne Bishop of our soules he adioyned no fellowe aldermen to himselfe Departing this worlde he gaue commission to his disciples within those places where they remayned to gouerne the church So we reade that they did excommunicate alone that they did ordeine ministers alone yea and did by superiour authoritie order both the affayres and goods of the church Paul did excommunicate 3 1. Timoth. 1. Alexander and Hymenaeus Peter as Beza confesseth by the swoorde of excommunication strooke Ananias and Saphyra alone Beza aduers Erast Paul ordeined Timothy and Titus and Timothy and Titus ordeined other ministers The Apostle Paul prescribeth orders and lawes to Timothy and Titus and their churches the populer gouernement which our platformers commend was not so much as in time of persecution vsed This was the practise of the Apostles successors likewise Saint Iohn writeth to the bishop of Ephesus to the bishop of Smyrna and likewise to the seuerall Bishoppes of other Churches to them hee giueth directions them he reprehendeth for bearing with the wicked which if they had had no authoritie aboue other Ministers had bene very vnfitting All Ecclesiasticall stories writing of that argument giue witnesse that seuerall Bishops succeeded the Apostles at Rome Constantinople Alexandria Ierusalem Antioche other famous Churches Saint Ierome and diuers other ancient writers testifie that Marke ruled Alexandria as Bishop which happened in Saint Iohns time All counsels giue preheminence to Bishops ouer other Ministers and to the counsels the fathers subscribe by infinite testimonies whereof it may appeare that excommunication ordination and the gouernement of the Church next vnder the prince did belong to Bishops the wordes I haue set downe heretofore in my English booke written against this counterfeite newe discipline Saint Ierome hath a most pregnant place for excommunication Ieronym aduers vigilant where hee wondereth that no one Bishop could bee found to excommunicate Vigilantius and if all the gouernement of the Church was committed to Bishops no doubt but that they disposed of these matters also When in our times religion began to be reformed the chiefe learned men that then liued and tooke paines therein In histor Apologia confess August protested in their publike writinges to the entent that all posteritie should knowe it that if Bishops would embrace religion they would most willingly submit themselues to their episcopall iurisdiction accompting in most godly and expedient for the Church Melancthon vseth many speeches to that purpose fearing that if the authoritie of bishops were reiected a greater tyranny would succede and Caluine likewise to Sadolete protesteth that he misliketh not Episcopal authoritie Neither can any thing bee deuised more absurd then that equalitie of ministers which is brought in to ouerthrow Bishoppes for no gouernement can be without superioritie neither can any thing bee well ordered where there is no speciall care in some one it
nor with his general purpose hauing made this absurd entrance he proceedeth more absurdly his arguments are all drawen from authoritie of late writers a weake kind of reasoning and good for nothing yet as if hee had sayde very much stoutely doth he reuell at Bishoppes Iudges lawes and quarrelth against the state afterward hee gathereth certaine notes of his owne discipline which vnlesse you receiue of his bare word you stop all his glorious proceeding last of all he layeth downe certaine articles and interrogatories It should seeme he hath bene eyther a pettie fogger in law or a clerke in some office or hath bene furnished with these matters by some odde clerke or petie fogger nothing is more simple nor clerkely nor worse beseeming men of learning there is in his writing no good course of words no good frame of sentences no sufficient proofes no order nor sequence of parts His arguments yet are worse then his stile to proue the consistorie and his new conceits of discipline he alledgeth first that the gouernment of Byshops is not so exquisite but that somewhat may bee amended as if it followed because men doo not their dueties or because there are imperfections in men and in proceedings or want of some lawe that the state were to be ouerturned and a newe vncouth and vnruly gouernement by Churchaldermen to be imbraced or els as if a man should say we were to be gouerned by the lawes of Turkes or Iewes because of the faultes of the common lawes nay rather let lawes stand and such Turkish and barbarous conceites of generall innouation bee corrected and faultes of lawes amended Secondly he bringeth in a packe of authorities against Romish bishops as if eyther the ancient Bishops of Rome or the late Bishoppes that preach the Gospell were to be measured by the wickednesse and tyranny of the late Romish Byshops or gouernment were to be taken away because it hath bene abused thirdly he produceth the opinions of Caluin Beza and a packe of others most of them vnlearned and vnknowen as if it were reason to follow them against all antiquitie or as if the gouernement of the Church stood vpon opinion not vpon scripture and ancient lawes and customes Before times these fellowes told vs of a discipline commanded in scriptures this fellow telleth vs of certaine fancies of Caluin Beza and certaine obscure authors newly brought out of corners into light and yet can he not shewe that any of these whome he hath alledged doe in all poynts consent with our platformers to prooue that his partisans offend not against law he alledgeth diuers of their opinions as if it were an excuse for heretikes to say they beleeue well in some few poyntes what punishment then do they deserue that offend both in the opinions alledged and diuers others concealed finally to prooue that his fellowes offending against lawe are not to be punished he sheweth that Bishops also offend against Lawe as if the offence of one were to be an excuse for another or as if a man offend in any small point of law and that not of malice it were lawfull for these fellowes to ouerthrow all lawes and that of selfewill and malicious purpose There is no decorum obserued in the whole discourse the petition is supposed to bee made by the author kneeling before her Maiestie yet doth he often speake to others and quarrell and dispute with those that are absent as if a man making his petition to her Maiestie should suddenly rise vp and quarrell with by standers which not onely is a poynt of absurditie but of the authors old frensie Secondly what is more vnseemely then before the chiefe gouernour to plead as doth the petitioner that all his gouernment is leud antichristian and that his lawes are deuoyde of reason and that iudgementes giuen are vniust and ought to be reuersed and most odiously to raile on the state and gouernours Thirdly seeing this petition is directed to her Maiestie to what ende is the same put in print belike the mans purpose is that so much as the Queene by wisedome shall denie the people by force and furie shall establish which in deede is his drift for the same was neuer presented to her Maiestie but onely to the people Fourthly nothing is more absurde then to handle matters of controuersie by way of supplication seeing he disputeth he should rather haue come in schooles then in court and before lawyers then courtiers Lastly a very vndecent thing it seemeth to me that a man not conuersant in studie of diuinitie should teach diuines that a disordered companion should controllgouernors and lawes that a man lately distracted of his wit should teach law and order neither knowing order nor lawe which course if it may be suffered it is but folly to studie diuinitie or lawe or to maintaine gouernement and a bad incouragement for iudges to do iustice seeing euery ignorant disordered companion shal take on him to control them and to teach lawe to gouerne as it were by reuelation inspiration and fancie what should be the cause that this base fellow should come forth I know not vnlesse this be it that all that were wise foreseeing and eschewing the danger this bedlem writer that neyther foresawe nor sawe any thing being armed with diuers collections of others should say something if for nothing els yet to make shew that they can say somewhat The treatise answereth not to the title for where hee promiseth therein to deliuer a meanes how to compound matters in the whole treatise he doth with all his force endeuour to enkindle warres he rayleth on goueruours and lawes controlleth iudges and goeth about to reuerse iudgements and would if he could ouerthrow all the ecclesiasticall state which sauoureth rather of a humour to fight then to compound and yet is not he the man that must bee the leader of these consistoriall warriours being but a ragazzo fit for nothing but to cary baggage In this his booke hee fighteth no more against vs then against himselfe he sayth hee will neither speake to ouerthrow Bishops nor to erect consistories yet doth he his vttermost malice against Bishops and speaketh what hee can for Consistories and yet nothing to purpose hee professeth hee knoweth not whether part hath better grounde wherein like a simple fellow he not onely confesseth he speaketh of matters he vnderstandeth not but also contrarieth himselfe in denying that hee professeth in the very first entrance he saith that all her Maiesties louing subiectes that loue religion honour her Maiestie and doe desire the good of the Realme doe heartily bewayle the contention of our Church wherin hee pronounceth sentence against himselfe and his consortes as neyther louing ber Maiestie religion nor the state for seeking to enflame this contention by scurrilous libels and interrogatories how can it bee surmised that they doe bewayle this contention do men bewayle that which they doe or doe men seeke peace that against good men throw out their
bolts euen bitter and slanderous words Besides the former the libeller hath also these faultes most fouly hee abuseth scriptures most shamefully hee alledgeth authors most ignorantly hee talketh of lawe and maliciously reuelleth at the ecclesiasticall state in the first page hee abuseth three places of scripture the 1 Prouerb 31. wise man sayth open thy mouth for the dumbe c. by this place he would iustifie his babbling in this treatise but nothing is more impertinent to his purpose then this sentence for the wise man would haue innocents that cannot speake for themselues defended by order and iustice by such as can speake neyther may wee thinke that it was his meaning that euery seditious person shoulde gape and rayle against Lawes and Gouernours for doing iustice or that malefactours shoulde bee defended against lawe and iudges how can then this place agree to his purpose seeing those men whome the libeller defendeth are not innocentes for they were condemned for felonie and tryed according to the lawes of England neyther were they mute when they reuelled against gouernours nor was Iohn Vdall condemned but for speaking too much nor is this busie behauiour of this companion any way allowed nor sedition or libelling priutledged The Prophet sayth further Psal 115. that because hee beleeued therefore he spake which the libeller turneth answere and woulde drawe to this his treatise but it fitteth not for this petition is no answere but rather a rayling libell or challenge neyther proceedeth it of faith but of a foolish disordered conceite of a distempered brayne not yet well seasoned since the authors last bedlem fits and if this bee his beliefe then is his faith built vpon fancie and vpon that which himselfe confesseth he knoweth not Neyther doth it appertayne to his purpose that the Prophet sayth that for Sions sake he will not hold his peace for it is not the cause of Sion Isai 62. nor any good cause but sedition faction fancie conceit and opinion that by him is here defended that to the great scandale of all the watchmen of Sion yea of althat pray for the peace of Ierusalem in the end of his articles against Bishops as if hee were rauished in an ecstasie hee exclameth how long Lord holy and true and saith come Lord Iesu which sentences make much against him for all good men desire that God would trie the cause and that he in iudgement would visite the perturbers of this Church which if once it shal please him to determine to doe then shall hee and such vipers as hee that fret the bowels of the Church which nourisheth them be discouered punished rooted out these may serue you for a tast the rest of his forgeries and forcing of authors shal be touched as they shall offer themselues in their place Neyther may wee thinke that he that maketh so litle conscience to abuse or dally with the scriptures of God hath vsed more religion in handling the writings of men for example to prooue the aldermen of his Church their proceedings he hath alledged Luther Zuinglius Melancthon and many others that are contrarie to these men in their discipline and neuer knewe such aldermen as he speaketh of neyther doth Caluin nor Beza ioyne with him in his seuerall poynts of discipline therefore doth he alledge them in grosse and abuseth his readers with a shew of names the like abuse shall appeare in his quotations of lawe which he by forging and lying maketh to speake contrary to lawe Little doth hee vnderstand of lawe hee neyther knoweth what proceeding of office meaneth nor what is lawe in ministring of othes against which hee argueth neyther any one poynt of common ciuill or Canon lawe of which hee so much standeth but whatsoeuer his knowledge is in lawe his malice in rayling against the state is singuler all which poyntes as they are touched here in a generalitie so hereafter shall bee more particularly layde open and most of his misallegations falsifications malicious slaunders weake proofes and proceedings answered not that eyther the author whose insufficiencie is notorious nor the discourse the weakenesse whereof is too too pitifull deserueth any answere but least that the simplicitie of the ignorant who is easily misled with these great shewes might be abused or iustice be by opinions controlled herein also all men may vnderstand the weakenes of the cause of the Consistorie the boldnesse malice and fashood of the Consistorians and such as contend for it and how fit it were that such as are altogether vncapable of reason should be gouerned if not enforced by lawes The author whatsoeuer he pretendeth for colour proposeth to himselfe to proue diuerse thinges First that the Ecclesiasticall gouernement of the Church of England is to be changed for that doth he meane by reformed Secondly That an Eldership should be established among vs as being a gouernement vsed in the ancient Church and commaunded to be continued in all ages and to the end that his reasons may be weighed he craueth disputation by aduised writing Thirdly he mainteineth that the disciplinarian faction hath not offended against the statute of 23. Eliz. c. 2 and that Iohn Vdal was vniustly condemned Fourthly he would declare That the consistoriall patrons are vniustly slaundered with desire of innouation and their doctrine with disloyaltie or disorder and endeuoreth to excuse himselfe for not declaring himselfe nor setting his name to his petition Lastly by diuers Articles and questions he goeth about to bring the Ecclesiasticall state into enuie and hatred That while men are busie in examining their faultes his clients of the new disguised discipline may escape in the darke and without danger vndermine the estate To meete therfore with his malice and to encounter him in al his turnes I doe purpose by Gods grace to shewe First that the gouernement of the Church of England is most conformable to the practise of the gouernment both vnder the lawe and the gospell and hath testimonie of scriptures confirmation of antiquitie and was neuer gainesaid but of late dayes when factious companions and clouters and tinkers and marchants and men of occcupatiō aspired to Church gouernement and that the cauils and proofes brought by the petitioner against it are fond and foolish Secondly that the noueltie vanitie iniustice and inconueniences of the new gouernement are such as cannot stand with any good or well ordered state wherein also the insufficient pleading of the petitioner for the Consistorie shall be refuted thirdly that Iohn Vdall was iustly condemned and that the platformers are iustly charged not onely with breach of diuers lawes very penall but also with sedition and faction and therefore are most mercifully dealt withall that they are nether in greater number nor in other qualitie punished the vaine glosses that are set vpon their factes and opinions shall be there also wiped away in the last part of this treatise such accusations as the libellor hath brought to disgrace the Ecclesiasticall gouernement
is against all lawe all practise yea against all reason Therefore euen the malcontent disciplinarians that take away the name giue notwithstanding the authoritie of Bishops to their rulers of Synodes in whome if the same were as they say vnlawfull no reason it should bee continued any little time And further vpon the wordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 denying superioritie to Bishops ouer ministers they doe notwithstanding giue an vnbrideled and absolute authoritie to the Consistories These arguments and others which I haue set downe stand vnanswered that which is sayd against bishops may be most easily and hath often bene answered neither doth this vnlettered fellow bring either new arguments or confirme the olde nay he leaueth all arguments which his fellowes haue brought out of scriptures therein shewing good iudgement for in deede it is absurd to thinke that bishops may be ouerthrowen by scriptures vpon which their authoritie is built I wonder with what face after so many proofes brought in this cause hee durst goe about without arguments to ouerthrowe that which hath such grounde vpon scriptures lawes reasons onely for a shewe he hath brought a number of names of * Pag. 10. 11. counsels fathers Churches and late writers but when the matter shall come to triall it shall be found that they doe all forsake him in this cause and that both they and infinite more then these speake against him I answere therefore first generally that it is no good argument that in this cause is drawen from Daneau Tauergues Perot Chauneton Carpentier or other of their faction Secondly that these counsels and fathers and Churches and learned men which he quoteth haue not oppugned Bishops or their gouernement The canons of the Apostles are placed in forefront of this aray against Bishops Can. 6. c. 80. not that they speake against thē but for that it pleaseth the petitioner to make some shewe in the entrance of his matter of apostolicall authoritie in the sixt Canon there is no mention made of Episcopall iurisdiction so that it may appeare that he looked not on the place It may be he meant the seuenth Canon for there both Bishops Priestes and Deacons are forbidden to meddle with worldly affaires and in the 80 Canon Bishops Priestes are charged not to intrude themselues into publike charges But neither place maketh one word against the superioritie of Bishops ouer Ministers nor their authoritie in ordination excommunication and other Ecclesiastical matters for which they are alledged nay contrariwise they giue ordination 1 Can. 2. 36 of Ministers to Bishops and plainely distinguish 2 c. 1. 2. 40. Bishops and priestes giuing to Bishops both superioritie ouer priests and also the 3 c. 40. 41. disposing of the affaires of the Church that Bishops in the primitiue Church were excluded from ciuil charges the reason was for that the Emperors were yet heathen and therefore without danger of impietie none could deale in office vnder them and in those times the offices about collection of the Emperors rentes were 4 ff de decurionib burdensome and dishonorable and therefore no maruaile if Bishops might not beare them last of all they were subiect to accomptes yet howsoeuer it was the Canons forbid not Bishops to susteine a charge imposed vpon them but ambitiously to seeke such charges generally seculer matters were not forbidden Bishops as may appeare in the same Canons 5 c. 41. so that neither doe these places make against our bishops vnder Christian princes in common wealthes wherein they are subiectes as wel as others and by their authoritie helpe their calling yea and the whole ministerie vnder them and no way hurt it neither doe they fit the petitionners purpose For Bishops by their episcopall office doe claime no ciuil authoritie nor doeth it folowe because Bishops may not beare certeine ciuil offices that therefore they are not to exercise episcopall authoritie as the petitionner doeth insinuate Next to the Apostles Canons as they are called hee citeth the 6 counsell of Carthage 19. c. but there do not appeare any Canons to haue beene made in that counsell so wide is the man from his marke commonly his fellowes vse to alledge the 4 counsell and 18 and 19 Canon yet doe not these canons fit their turne for nothing is there spoken against the office of Bishops either in ordination or contentious iurisdiction onely Bishoppes are forbidden to take on them the execution of testaments which notwithstanding hath 1 Concil Chalced. c. 3. exceptions and to bee common quarrellers in lawe which no man thinketh conuenient neyther canon maketh any thing to the purpose were not this man without discretion he would neuer alledge this counsell against Bishops that so 2 c. 3.27 31.55.68 diuersly confirmeth the authoritie of them and condemneth such 3 c. 57 67. libellers and raylors as the authors of this petition Neyther doth the counsell of Chalcedon decree any thing against the state of Bishoppes the Canons alledged onely forbid them as the puritane Ministers whereof some are grasiers some fermers some malsters doe vse to doe to hire grounds which payd rent and tribute to the Emperor or to deale in ciuil affaires or warfare least therby they should neglect their ministerie a pregnant place against diuers of these counterfeit hypocrites that shaking of their Ministerie and disdeining the base accompt of it trade in vsurie marchandise fermes and other such like occupations giuing ouer themselues to serue mammon This counsel maketh nothing for the cause of Puritans for it establisheth the authoritie of Bishops and Archbishops and condemneth such malitious and factious persons as they are that by 1 c. 17. calumnious accusations conspire the hurt or disgrace of their bishops The Petitioner doth also alledge the 6 counsell of Constantinople yet doe we not in the bookes of counsels finde any of that number nor in any counsell holden at Constantinople any thing against the authoritie or dignitie of bishops it may be he mistooke the 6 counsell of Constantinople for the 6 synode yet doeth not that speake against bishops but rather enacteth diuers 2 Synod 6. ca. 9. 10. cannons against vsurie a practise which Th. Cartw. and W. Ch. and others might doe well not to vse and for the dignitie of bishops many 3 Synod 6. c. 31. 36. 37. places To let vs further vnderstand his ignorance hee quoteth the 3 counsell of Turon whereas there were neuer but two there in neither of them any word sounding against the authoritie of bishops perhaps he meant by names of coūsels to face downe simple men or thinketh it no sinne for the glory of the consistorie to lye I beseech him to shewe vs where this 3 counsel of Turon may be found and then he shall haue further answere Beside the new third counsel of Turon he hath deuised a new counsell also of Macra which course if he hold on I
perceiue we shall haue a new booke of counsels to frame a new consistory withall to put the blame from himselfe he putteth it on Illyricus as true a quoter of textes almost as euer was Th. Cartwr his scholler but suppose that which 1 Catal. test veritat pag. 121. Illyricus hath of this counsell were true yet can not the wordes of the counsell be interpreted against bishops for suppose that a bishop may not be a King or Prince and that the callings be distinct yet may hee haue episcopall iurisdiction against which that counsell is alledged To helpe his aray of counsels hee bringeth in a supply of Fathers but very vnlike it is that they should speake against counsels being diuers of them chiefe doers in diuers counsels and therefore let him take heede least while hee mustereth the names of Fathers against bishops the men themselues doe not all fight against him That Cyprian is contrary to his allegation it is notorious for he establisheth the dignitie of bishops and vtterly ruinateth the cause of the new come gentlemen called Church-aldermen Hee subiecteth the whole 2 Lib. 1. ep 3. brotherhoode to the bishop and sayth that the same obedience is according to the commaundements of God The same authoritie is confirmed by the letters of the clergie of Rome to Cyprian Post Fabiani 3 Lib. 2. ep 7. excessum say they non est constitutus à nobis episcopus qui omnia ista moderetur He giueth to bishops the 4 Lib. 3. ep 9. succession of the Apostles and from no 5 Lib. 4. ep 9. lib. 1. ep 3. other roote doeth hee suppose heresies and schismes to spring then from contempt of the authoritie of Bishoppes So shamelesse is this Libeller to alledge Cyprian against bishops that in the places aboue named yea and in the 6 Lib. 3. ep 10. places by him quoted doth confirme their authoritie For albeit Cyprian doeth say that from his first entrance into his charge hee had determined to doe nothing but by the consent of the people and counsell of his Clergie yet doeth it not make against his superioritie nay it confirmeth it rather For with vs Bishops may doe nothing without lawe which is a most certaine consent nay good Princes rule by counsell and Lawes and yet they will not denie but that Princes in all places and Bishops with vs haue a superiour aucthoritie ouer those that are committed to them And Cyprian in that selfe same Epistle writing to the priestes and Deacons vseth these woordes I 1 Hortor mando exhorte and commaund yea further hee prescribed what was to bee done both concerning the poore and confessors and 2 Vice mea fungamini circagerenda quae religiosa administratio deposcit made a deputation to others that were to gouerne in his absence as much or rather more then bishops may with vs take vpon them to doe Likewise in the 14 Epistle of his thirde booke alledged also against bishops there are found manifest argumentes for their authoritie For hee reprehendeth the presumption of certaine Ministers too rash in reconciling those that had fallen and declareth vnto them that the Bishop is 3 Ep. 14. episcopus ipsis praepositus set ouer them and that their place is vnder the bishop of which 4 Loci sui immemores they were vnmindfull that the bishops duetie was to 5 Vt instructi à praepositis faciant omnia instruct them and their dutie to obey him It is euident that this author was not much acquainted with Cyprian that alledgeth him thus cōtrary to his meaning which is most childish and absurd quoteth the 27 epistle of Cyprians 3 booke where there are onely 15 epistles there In 6 Lib. 1. ep 9. another place Cyprian reprehendeth a certaine minister being apointed gardein to orphans executor of a testament but how the same may be drawen to make against the estate of bishops I vnderstand not for bishops among vs desire no such matter as that which Cyprian cōdemneth neither came it euer in Cyprians meaning to condemne the authoritie of Bishops as it is vsed in this Realme If hee speake against any it is especially against T. C. for albeit he be a Minister as he sayth himselfe yet refused he not the execution of his brother Stubbes his will no nor refuseth the gouernment of his Hospitall and therefore this fellowe seemeth vnwise thus deepely to lanch his deare brother T.C. whose purchases and purloynings hee hath taken on him to defend where in the meane while the state of Bishops for any thing Cyprian sayth standeth inviolable nay in the same place their iurisdiction is confirmed for Cyprian being a Bishop taketh on him to reforme Ministers and giueth bishops 1 Episcopi antecessores nostri censuerunt c. sacerdotum decretum authoritie to make ecclesiasticall lawes which pearceth the Church-aldermen that long for superioritie to the very heart Finally he taketh on him to punish disorders then which authoritie what can be greater 2 Dist 10. c. quoniā idem Gratian also extolleth Bishops aboue Princes so farre is hee from speaking against Bishoppes or their authoritie so that to alledge Gratian for proofe is as much as to vse corrosiues for pleasant medicines Neither doth it take away or diminish the authoritie and state of Bishoppes that by the Canons they may not encroche vpon the Princes authoritie in Ciuill causes for wee say that the vocation of Magistracie and ministerie is distinct and that Bishoppes in England doe not in respect they are ministers meddle with Ciuil causes but as they are subiects and are commanded Wherein they doe not shewe themselues busie in encrochments in taking on them charges imposed but shoulde shewe themselues disloyall persons at least no good subiects if they shoulde refuse them the consistoriall faction contrariwise doeth encroche both vpon Ecclesiasticall and Ciuill gouernours hauing authoritie from neither and intrude themselues where no man sendeth for them or admitteth them After Cyprian Tertullians 3 De ieiunio booke of fasting is by force drawen in by the imperious Consistorials for euidence against Bishops which I cannot but wonder at seeing they condemne both fasting in Lent other fasts which he alloweth and the degree state of bishops which he commendeth in his booke 1 Lib. de baptism of baptisme where hee giueth the chiefetie and praerogatiue of Priesthoode to Bishoppes expelling out the impudent Aldermen that nowe are crept in I knowe not by what strange concetie into Churchgouerment In the booke of fasting there is not so much as the office of bishoppes mentioned much lesse any speach against them there is order taken for their allowance which the sacrilegious consistorials that haue ruinated the Church in all places where they come doe denie them In the same place Tertullian doth construe the place 1. Timoth. 5.17 against these men for hee onely vnderstandeth by Elders that rule
well Bishops and Priestes and not these newe Aldermen which albeit they bee mute in pulpits yet are they mouthy inough in Consistories The opinion of Augustine concerning the estate of bishops is sufficiently knowen for hee thrusteth them among heretickes that deny their superioritie In which croude let this Libeller and his fellowe T. C. goe packe out of the Church together with Aerius their ringleader and an olde master of an hospitall and a famous hereticke himselfe was also a bishop and gouerned his clergie and church with as great power as nowe doe our byshops neither doeth he in eyther of the places 2 De opere monach c. 16. de ciuit der lib. 19. c. 19. quoted say any thing against them Hee condemneth not the state of bishops but their worldlinesse and not the dignitie of bishops but such as sought honour and would not endure labour which negligence wee doe not defend in any neither was hee so scrupulous in distinguishing ciuill and ecclesiastiall causes as these seeme to be for in his booke de opere Monachorum alledged by this Petitioner he doth declare that hee dealt himselfe in ciuill causes notwithstanding he was a bishop and that he hoped God woulde reward him for it Neither is there in 3 In Tit. ad Ocean Hieroms whole workes any worde sounding to the disgrace of bishoppes Hierome maketh the termes of Bishops and Priestes common in the Apostles time but that bishops and priestes should nowe be equall in power and dignitie hee neuer concluded nay hee saith that the superioritie of bishops is an Apostolicall 1 Ep. 85. tradition and borrowed of the analogie betwixt the Lawe and the Gospell and confesseth that it began in the Apostles time accordingly hee vseth Damasus Bishop of Rome and all bishops with great respect The authoritie and credite of Ambrose both with the Emperour and people and his iurisdiction in ecclesiasticall causes was farre greater then that which our Bishops haue Is it then thinke you likely that a bishop woulde speake against Bishops nay he is sayde himselfe to haue exercised the Church censures against the Emperour and giueth ordination to Bishops and calleth them the Apostles successors The place of Ambrose commonly alledged 2 Ep. 33. against Bishops ciuill iurisdiction maketh nothing against the state of Bishops for in England no Bishop hath ciuill iurisdiction as hee is a Bishop but as hee hath it by commission which to refuse were not onely a weakening but a deniall of loyaltie neither doth Ambrose forbid any to take ciuill iurisdiction but to followe worldly cares and to giue ouer their ministerie and as diuers of this faction haue done to throwe off the robes of the ministerie and to runne in their lether Ierkins after worldly gaine and pleasure That Ambrose esteemed highly the office of bishops is apparant for hee 3 In eph 4. saith that those that are nowe called bishops succeede in the charge and place of gouernment of the Apostles Chrysostome taketh to himselfe the power of excommunication yeeldeth to bishops the power of ordeining 4 In 1. Tim 4. epist Paul ad Philip. homil ad pop Antioch ministers ouer whom he giueth them authoritie himselfe was a bishop of great power and authoritie hee condemneth certaine heretikes which would not yeelde the due titles to bishops but called them onely 5 In Psal 13. reuerentia tua dignitas tua and such like termes condemned by Chrysostome reuerend and worshipfull euen like to the platformers what shame then haue these fellowes that blush not to make either so holy a bishop contrary to himselfe or manifestly to belye him and slaunder him wherefore let the words of Chrysostem against bishops be brought forth if hee bring them not Hom. 2. in epist ad Phil. euery man will take him for a plaine false coyner of authorities which nowe is in part apparant he saith that the names of bishops and priests were all one but that all bishops and priests should haue equall authoritie he saith not nor euer thought That Gregory the great is alledged against bishops is a matter most miraculous for in his time the bishoppes of Rome were come to extraordinarie greatnes incroched not only vpon their neighbors but also vpō most christian Churches so far was he frō condēning the state of bishops in the preface to his dialogues if they be his as is most vnlike he reprehendeth those that waxed old in worldly desires which neither in bishops nor other is to be alowed against episcopal authoritie he saith nothing the power of bishops ouer priests euery wherein his epistles he commendeth The quotation out of Hillary maketh nothing to the purpole hee reprehendeth Constantius the Emperor for aduancing bishops aboue the degree of bishops but that maketh for bishops and not against them for hee disaloweth not the state but the Emperors too much forwardnesse in giuing Arrian bishops too much honour and credite The Libeller hath a strange sight in 1 Ep. 67. Synesius if he thinke that he spake any thing against bishops percase he had on his 2 Those dreames that passe through horny doores as Homer feigneth are vntrue for horne is not trans parent horne spectacles when hee read them without such sight nothing is to be found in Synesius against our cause If he would haue made any conclusion out of him he would haue acknowledged so much him selfe He alledgeth with like iudgment Nazianzen his oration aduersus Maximum yet in all his works is there not any such oration found there is an oration of such matters as Gregory did against Maximus but concerning the superioritie of bishops there is nothing therein least of all any thing against bishops neither is it like he would speake against bishops himself being a bishop alowing the state of bishops he gouerned with authoritie his 1 Cum auctoritate hic praesidemus haec multis ex vobis tamquam lege sancimus Nazianz. in orat de modest in disputat seruanda words were obserued as lawes in the church he saith 2 Ibidem there is order while bishops commaund and others are ruled of such as these felowes are that wil neither obserue order nor rule he complaineth and commendeth that which they despise only he speaketh against ambitious seeking the greatest bishopricks and highest places wishing that the principality should be remoued rather then such incōueniences admitted Origene 3 In Esaiam hom 6. giueth most ample titles authority to bishops euen in the same place where he is supposed to speake against thē onely he would not haue them insult nor tyrannise ouer the people which the bishops of England neither doe nor can doe according to lawes but the Aldemen of the consistorie whose word is proofe and will law and against whose wrongs there is no sufficient remedie by appeale they do properly tyrannife yea oligarchize and therefore against such cruell tyrants Origen declaymeth and we
haue good cause to speake Bernarde 4 De consid ad Eugen. lib. 2. speaketh against the Pope for clayming soueraintie in both swordes which no bishop in England claymeth neither doth any bishop by his episcopall authoritie exercise the materiall swordes as the Pope doeth and therefore as Bernards reasons are good against the Pope so are they not to be vsed against our bishops neither was it euer Bernards meaning to condemne the prerogatiue of bishops allowing the same in so many of his epistles and writings and commending so highly the bishop of Rome notwithstanding his infinite abuses he 5 Serm. 66. in Cantic non est mirum si ordinibus ecclesie deirahunt si mandatis non obediunt bitterly inueigheth against those heretickes which for their apish imitation of the Apostles called themselues Apostolickes because they condemned prelacy and therefore calleth them Stultissimos obstinatissimos Thus the man or at least his partakers haue sought euery corner of the Fathers and yet finde nothing against the prerogatiue of bishops therfore is hee glad to flye to the practise of late churches late writers but the conclusion which he draweth from them is most weake for admit that in Geneua in France Flaunders and other churches they haue not bishops of such quality in all respects as wee haue no more haue other churches such Elders as they of Geneua haue it is sufficient that we haue such bishops as in time past they had at Ierusalem Constantinople Alexandria Antioch Carthage Seuil throughout the world before that the cornercreeping Aldermē crept out of the slime of fond mens inuention that the bishops in reformed churches of Almayne haue episcopal authoritie ouer other ministers in ordination of ministers correction of maners so that they are to be blamed that digresse from all antiquitie yea and later churches not we that agree with al former times and the Almayns for both they the Danes albeit some of them mislike the names and most of them haue taken away the liuings of bishops yet reteine still their authoritie and office in their superintendents generall superintendēts and had done better if also they had reteined the liuings rewards of learning stipends of ministers wherefore let the libeller cease to obiect vnto vs the Heluetian and Dutch and Danish churches for they differ farther from the Geneuians then from vs and the petitioner himselfe 1 Pag. 10. confesseth that they haue authoritie though not so much Of late writers I know none of name that hath condemned our bishops euen the chiefe authors of this innouatiō Caluin and Beza as may appeare by their letters which are to be shewen speake euery where honourably of them Zanchus greatly extolleth that order onely Beza as some say hath written a foolish 2 Entituled The iudgement of a learned man beyond the sea pelting discourse wherein he would proue our bishops to proceed of men as if himselfe were a bishoppe of God and Daneau in that poynt consenteth with him taking himselfe also to be a bishoppe of God and yet the Geneuians when through weakenesse of body sicknesse and age hee coulde not execute the ministerie shut this bishop of God from his liuing and forced him through want to depart out of their Citie Bullinger and Gualter and diuerse learned men of Suitzerland and Germanie haue by letters and writings allowed our bishops yea 1 Histori confess August Melancthon Camerarius Sturmius wished to God they had such in their Countreys neyther did any of these that are named by the libeller euer speake against other then papisticall bishops let the worlde then iudge what honestie or shame was in this companion that alledgeth Luther Melancthon Bucer Caluin Beza Bullinger Zanchus Erastus Gualter and Mounster against our bishops whereof some neuer spake of them others neuer spake of them but with reuerence and none against them and 2 In diuers of his letters to be shewed Beza complaineth of some that drewe his wordes vttered against popish bishops against our bishops If therefore the libeller do not bring forth some other places then these hee hath quoted there is no cause but that euery man shoulde take him for a forger of false writings and an abuser of his reader But suppose Beza or Daneau or some other of that sort shoulde write their pleasures in priuate letters or in their imperious paltrie pamphlets who would not be ashamed to oppose these two or all their headie followers to Ignatius Dionysius Chrysostome Augustine Ambrose Hierome and all antiquitie yea to most writers of late times And if these men that patronise the consistorie which cannot stand with bishops for in deede there is no agreement in gouernement betwixt the rusticall fauni and the muses betweene learned men and men of occupation betweene clownes and schollers if these I say doe not speake against bishops wee may not thinke that bishop Iewell orbishop Elmar or bishop Bollingham or others that haue written in defence of the state haue vttered any thing that soundeth to their disgrace 1 In his Apologie Bishop Iewell expressely defendeth the degree of bishops aboue priestes and good reason for it is the publike doctrine of this Church and those that goe against it make this Church to reuoke a part of their publike confession and doe more harme by their secret trechery then euer did Harding by his open enmitie neyther can there be a greater scandale or dishonour offred to religion or the state then that we should now alter the publike confession of faith made by our Church Iewell saith that the office of prince and bishop is distinct and no man denieth it for no man by the office of bishop challengeth as doth the pope soueraigntie of both swords but if any conclude because bishops ciuil officers are distinct that a bishop shal doe no ciuil office he wil conclude that hee may not looke to his house nor do the office of a subiect nor fight for his country which is a nice point of puritanisme and little better then trechery and by the same reason should ministers be excluded both from gouernement of colledges and hospitals and al offices in the vniuersities whereto our puritanes ambitiously aspire are as great canuasers as any notwithstanding their ministerie or puritanisme Neither can master Nowels words be stretched against bishops for what if Christ would not receiue riches or dominion of the deuil may not a minister receiue a benefit of a Prince or because Christ forbade them to rule as Princes may they do no offices of good subiectes but liue like traitors or like puritanes that liue in open contēpt of lawes if then the petitioner had any conscience he would not alledge Mr. Nowel against bishops whose authority he mainteineth against Dorman and whose resolution for this present gouernement is sufficiently knowen Master Bilson distinguisheth betwixt apostolicall gouernement and princely gouernment but hee
taketh not thereby away apostolical superiority ouer ministers as these manglers of scriptures doe that to build vp one seate of the consistorie haue hewen diuerse scriptures in pieces and racked mens wordes against their meaning neyther in word nor conceit did he euer oppugne the present gouernment Bishop Elmar sometime before hee came abroad into the world supposed the liuings of bishops to bee too great hee knew not then the malice of men nor the state of things now he confesseth therein his ouersight is it not lawfull for him to amend his error especially seeing some men thinke it lawful from knowledge to fall into puritanisme and from a right course to run into error yet do we not vse the benefit of their doubling let them double as much as they wil so they double not with God The like is to be said of bishop Bollingham who if hee erred in speaking against bishops Rochets for against the state I see not where he speaketh yet did hee the same away by repentance but we stand not on mens opinions nor pamphlets nor priuate writings we would once the names of Caluin and Beza and others were laid aside and the cause were examined by scripture and antiquitie which is not partial this T. Cartw. did once professe but now he hath forgotten himselfe would he come backe againe to his old hint he should soone see his owne error if he striue against himselfe no maruell it is if hee striue with others but if he come abroad he must come better furnished with scriptures and reasons Not content to alledge some the libeller ere he passe will needes belye others and among them 1 in his defence of the princes supremacie Doctor Bridges it may bee the consistorie hath giuen him a dispensation to lye for he saith that Doctor Bridges doth iustifie Aerius opinion whereas contrariwise hee saith that albeit Hierome and others did hold that a bishop and priest was one yet was no Aerian whereby it appeareth that hee confesseth Aerius to bee an heretike and denieth others to be Aerians He shamefully likewise belyeth my lorde of Canterburie 2 Pag. 654. lin 54. whom he falsely quoteth maketh to confesse elders for such elders as these men would haue neuer entred into his cōceit only he confesseth that there were ministers in the beginning of the Church that liued in community with bishops which now that the number of Christians is so encreased were not requisite for then should there be infinite nonresidents that he neuer imagined there ought to be elders of the Geneuian making his reasons brought against them doe declare Neyther did the author of the admonition made against the drunken surfet of Martins puritanisme set downe any wordes that import that there was an Eldership vnder the lawe as the libeller affirmeth the wordes are contrary why then should hee imagine that the authors meaning was contrary to his wordes it was saith hee first so set downe admit it were must all compositers errors bee allowed for text I perceiue these fellowes are angrie when a man woulde correct a fault and therefore I feare hee will not amende his fault in lying but I haue heard saith hee that that booke was subscribed by the bishop of Canterburie Lincolne and London as if any thing were more common then vntrueth in the mouthes of puritanes and therefore no maruell if hee haue heard a leasing The author of the remonstrance without any supposall saith plainely Pag. 166. that there neuer were any Church consistorie and therefore what fondnesse is it to suppose him to say that which hee denieth but admitte hee shoulde say if it were in the lawe and Gospell that it were to bee continued yet doth it not followe that it was in the lawe or after for of supposals no direct assertion can bee made vnlesse that which is supposed bee graunted neyther can any man enforce any such conclusion as the libeller imagineth nay hee shall sooner presse the little wit hee hath out of his braynes then gayne such a conclusion for the assumption viz. that the Geneuian Aldermanshippe began vnder the lawe and was practised vnder thè Gospell is but a franticke conceyte in this discrasied mans brayne neyther my lorde of Canterburie sayth it nor any of our side that I knowe Why doeth not the man therefore proue it the reason is euident for that vntrueth cannot be proued let him therefore presse what he can out of the assertions aforesaid he shal sooner wring vergis out of a flint then wring his Consistorie out of scriptures But saith he one Mathew Sutcliffe controlleth both whereunto if he durst haue set to his name I might haue answered that one W. St. and his promptors are deceiued Now I must answere that one certaine worthlesse libeller mistaketh for neither is it true which he auoweth That I protest there was neuer any such gouernement by elders vnder the Gospel yea and such arguments haue I set downe that Th. Cartwr and all the faction haue taken terme to answere neither doe I controwle others that haue trauailed before me in the same argument for all of vs agree that there was neuer any Geneuian Eldership in the world before the erection of it at Geneua and that the Eldership that was in time past was composed of Bishops or of Priestes assistant to the Bishops which were Ministers of the word and sacraments and such as in part in our cathedrall Churches yet continue The third vntrueth is That he saith I suppose if there were Elders vnder the Gospel they were not now necessarie Pag. 213. which the author of the remonstrance affirmeth For I doe not speake of Elders but generally of gouernement conclude most strongly against the platformers That they may not haue their discipline and why forsooth because first it was neuer found in scriptures nor practise and secondly because diuers orders are founde in scripture for externall gouernement which now are out of vse so that both the antecedent being false and consequent nought it is not possible the conclusion should be good but what should I talke of antecedent and consequent with this companion that vnderstandeth neither Logicke nor termes of reason The fourth lye is that I deface forreine Churches writing against the Eldership in Latine make the rent of our Church deeper For I speake in the defence of the state to salue those wounds which these fellowes haue made to pece the rents of our church I neuer speake of forreine churches but honorably neither am I curious in other mens states neither doe I deale with Beza but as with a graue and learned man in this point mistaken destitute in this cause both of wisedomect learning although I haue bene badly requited at his hands againe which course if Beza others would haue taken these contentions that haue troubled our Church woulde neuer haue growen to this height but they would be writing talking against vs yea censuring
must be ruinated and al lawes abolished that the confusion of the Consistorie barbarisme of this new discipline may triumph ouer the church In France and Scotland they want much of that discipline they desire nay the Ministers want meanes pore men to mainteine thēselues and their families yea the Church wanteth sufficient and learned ministers and is glad to vse the ministerie of boyes and vnlearned youthes wanting all thinges saue boldnes yet they will not say that for these disorders or want of their desires it is reason that the ministerie and their aldermen should be changed and all ouerthrowen The 2 1. Eliz. 2. Statutes giue power to her Maiestie and her ecclesiasticall commissioners to appoint orders for the ornaments of the Church doth it therefore follow that surplesses and other ceremonies are to be abolished By like reason a man may couclude that all lawes are entended to be taken away because the prince and parliament haue authoritie so to doe a reason well beseeming such sencelesse felowes as vnderstand no reason for nether is the consequent good a posse adesse nor if the conclusion were granted would this man obtaine his desire concerning his consistorial discipline for albeit alteration be made in the ministers apparel yet may the same be made the state standing and the consistorie falling to dust so that if he looke for no other alteration then that which is entended by our lawes he his consistorie may goe and consider vpon some better reasons In the meane while hee saith that some of our chiefe defendors of religion against the papists confesse That diuers abuses in ceremonies and discipline were tollerated among vs the church yeelding to the infirmitie of the weake which were to be altered when people grewe to riper knowledge Wherein as in other things he dealeth falsely for neither is it true that 1 Fulke retent pag. 98. Doctor Fulke saith That our ceremonies or discipline is to be altered nor is he though a most learned man one of our chiefe defendors But suppose it were granted that he then thought that some alteration in ceremonies and discipline were to be admitted doth it therefore followe that the church must be spoyled bishops and ecclesiastical persons put frō their charges and a sort of hungrie cormorants brought into gouernement againe suppose this one man in his youth were of some strange conceite cōcerning the euerlasting blessed consistorie yet doth not one make a number where then be the rest forsooth in the intention of the libeller that is now hatching of newe heresies Can. 20. and fooleries But saith hee the bishops confesse in their canons that non residencie is a filthie thing and diuers confesse that lay men should not meddle with excommunication and that diuers lewde and vnlearned Ministers haue entered into the Church which were it supposed to be true yet addeth nothing to the cause of the consistorie for we deny not that men be men that there be faults in the execution of lawes therefore such as offend are to be punished not as this discrasied disputor would cōclude al lawes to be abolished a new gouernmēt to be erected in the law we denie that there is eyther impietie or abuse in men we doe not deny nay wee wish that such as giue scandale were remoued that by their defaults the commō cause might not be hurt if the consistorial faction could cleare themseluelues of impietie abuse in their gouernmēt it would be better for thē but they must thinke that there are faultes among them aswel as among others that they are no angels but men yea and many very odde men and men made of very strange humors Master D. Cosin confesseth that the punishment of adulterie is too milde and others be of his opinion for we do not say that euery point of lawe is so perfect or that things can be so stable that there can be nothing added or detracted if they should say so of their consistorie as some men douteth not they should but make a great leasing as is euident by the particulers of their gouernment what then will the libeller conclude of this our opinion doth he thinke that his consistorial discipline must come in place if he do he is abused for the imperfections impieties iniustice thereof is to to notorious That in the consecratiō of bishops the pastoral staffe laying on of the bible is cōmanded by law to be vsed is one of the libellers lewd vntrueths for no such thing is foūd in the booke of ordeining of ministers neither doth any other lawe commande any such matter but suppose it were cōmanded the same were omitted were it reason as this libeller auoweth because the archbishop vnto whose discretion many things are referred by lawe omitteth some ceremonie that therefore euery contentious companion should breake all orders let this be put among the cōclusiōs of discipline or rather disorder for such in deed is this discipline a scholler would rather haue cōcluded that he ought to be forced to obserue law thē that others because he breaketh law in one point should take occasion to breake law in all to cōclude his vnsauery tale against the ecclesiastical gouernment he saith that a 1 Aduertisement to the Church of England c. lerned man friend to the bishops noteth as abuses their vrging of subscriptiō their othes ex officio their excōmunicatiō for trifles and easie silencing of ministers wherein he saith not amisse concerning the gentlemans learning for in deed he is both graue learned now vnderstandeth and hath learned that neither in subscription nor examination of parties vpon their othes ecclesiasticall iudges doe any thing against either lawes of God or men or reason nor that any is excommunicate for trifles or minister silenced but for good cause and by his owne default nor that subscription is a new deuise being vsed in most ancient counsels and with great rigour exacted at Geneua and in all France which I would also haue the libeller to learne and also to speake the trueth and to deale honestly for no man is excommunicate in ecclesiastical courts but for 1 Quo minor culpa co maior contumacia Beza aduers Erast contumacie neither is any put to silence but such as shew themselues rebellious but what if some abuse were would not reason require that the abuse should rather be taken away then that there should be made a dangerous innouation in state these things considered I referre to euery mans iudgement what maner of disputor this felow is that either speaketh no trueth or els alledgeth such matters as make not to the purpose that the fathers or counsels yea or late writers of name speake against such Bishops as we haue is vntrue that some malcontents haue declaymed against the state is not denied that there are abuses in execution of lawe therefore our lawes to be abolished and the consistorie to be
nor dispraised for euill doing neither is there any memoriall of their doings nor recorde of their names nor note of their succession nor being in the whole scriptures Nay not so much as the Rabbines or the histories of Philo or Iosep make any mention either of their names life acts death or any thing cōcerning thē which were wondrous strange if any such extrauagant cōmanders had bene for howsoeuer it fareth with others the acts of gouernours cannot lie hidden To be short nothing can be more absurd then that such odde companions as these aldermen are shoulde controll Princes and iudge of religion being most of them without the function of priesthoode or knowledge of diuinitie or good letters The same reasons may also perswade vs that there were no such church gouernours in the Apostles times or after There appeareth first no institution of them Secondly no lawes wherby they are to gouerne Thirdly no act of theirs Fourthly no commendation or reproofe of their persons or doings Fiftly their authoritie was inuested in the Apostles by our Sauiour to whom also the keyes were giuen and not to these false aldermen that come in rather like burners of houses then gouernours of Churches with counterfeite keyes Sixtly in the whole storie of the Acts of the Apostles there is not the least suspicion of them neyther doe they stand vpon any thing but false interpretations of 3 or 4 places of scripture Nor to conclude can any thing be more vnlikely then that our Sauiour Christ Iesus the wisedome of God hauing giuen the keyes of Iurisdiction and knowledge to his Apostles and their successors would take the same from them and hang them at the elbowes of men without authoritie knowledge or discretion such as the Church Aldermen are for the most part In the times succeeding next to the Apostles all histories counsels fathers giue witnesse to the gouernement by bishops in time of persecution and after the time of persecution by bishops vnder the soueraigne direction of Christian Princes Neyther for 1540 yeeres did euer this foolish conceit come in any mens heads that merchantes men of occupation musterd sellers and tinkers were men sufficient for the gouernement of Churches Then which nothing can be deuised more absurd nor inconuenient It is the high way to all heresies for when matters be decided by voyces of men that neuer knewe Scriptures Fathers nor tongues how is it possible that they should teach trueth or continue in trueth or meete with errours this is the principall cause of the multitude of heresies in the lowe Countries The same also would be a Seminarie for schisme for when all parishes and ministers and Consistories haue equall iurisdiction as these fellowes teach that they ought to haue who shall remedie contentions that fall out the synode a mere conceite for what neede they to care for the synode or the censures thereof that by no lawe are subiect to synodes All learning would decay for who should neede to studie if a Taylor comming warme from the shopboard be a man fit to gouerne the church or who can haue any courage to studie where this sacrilegious discipline that hath made hauock of all the reuenues of the church is placed and the stipends that are allotted to learded men shall bee arbitrary and may bee taken away at the discretion of a sort of ignorant marmarchants clownes and men of occupation Fourthly where there is no lawe prescribed how can the Iudges bee kept in temper euen now notwithstanding all lawes and penalties that may be deuised partialitie fauour hatred and other affectons beare sway How much would they sway more if the Consistorie should come in place which is ruled onely by will and pluralitie of voyces and not restrayned but by pretence of God worde which euery man vseth to construe to his owne profit Downe would the princes reuenues fall and the Realme be left without meanes of defence and made vnable to resist the enemie If any man thinke that the spoile of the church should come to the princes hands he abuseth himselfe The spoyles of other places do teach vs what would fall out yea our owne experience may herein sufficiently instruct vs. For albeit in the ouerthrow of Abbeys the Prince had some share yet are not now the Princes of this land able to mainteine that force that in time past they were when great nōbers of both horsemen footmen were maintained at the charge of religious houses the reuenues whereof now are wholy imployed yet scarce able percase to buy some one meane gentlewoman a verdugal so leudly are they spent so great is the pride waste of men the reason of it is this that what they spent thē in mainteining of men the same is now spent in veluets silkes glittering coates Suppose then that the church goods should come to spoyle do you thinke they would be better spent it should seeme no for all is now spent in surfet excesse that in time past was spent in mainteining of men And I knowe where in certaine manors taken from bishops thousands of men were mainteined the reuenues of all which do not now buy peticoates for my mistres the owners wife and her maydens not a man of al their tenāts scarce able to do her Maiestie seruice at his owne charge they are so fined skinned All those that liue by learning should be turned along to picke sallets whereby Poperie hauing no resistance would finde easie entrance and those that are best able being discouraged for want of meanes make least resistance Vnto all these points the Libeller saith but litle only vpon one point he stādeth that the hot pursuers of their pretended reformation haue some inducemēts to thinke that there hath bene in the world some such consistory as he imagineth but where or when he knoweth no certaintie nay he knoweth not what maner of beast the same is His proofes they be so weake that I marueile hee was not ashamed to make muster of them scriptures he bringeth none Aworld to see how those that in oppugning our state were so copious in allegations of scriptures to mainteine their Aldermen and Discipline doe not so much as endeuour to bring any scripture or by reason drawen thence to confirme their cause The Fathers as him selfe confesseth speake obscurely his chiefe helpe is in Caluin Iunius Beza Dancau yea and such obscure compagnions as Bertrand de loques Bastinge Charpentier du Pleurre Golart Iacomot Pollan and a rable of others not worth the naming But if the consent of halfe a score base writers and of bad alloy be so forcible as to perswade the good liking of the consistorie what reason haue wee to stand in defence of our gouernment by bishops which hath the consent of so many generall counsels so many Fathers so many ages yea so many learned men also of our time as these bee and as well learned and godly as the other diuers of whose pietie hath passed
fiery tryals and bene sealed with their blood namely Bishop Cranmer bishop Ridley bishop Latimer bishop Farrar master Philpot and master Bradford and many moe martyrs that liued in good liking of our state and defended bishops whereas few of these that are alleadged condemned our Bishops and none of the ancient Fathers allowe such an Eldership as these seeke for Adde hereunto the learned men now liuing in England comparable to the best and farre exceeding these Bastinges Loquians Golarts Perots and such obscure and vnlearned and vnwise authors Who will not I say rather giue credite to such consent then to a fewe ouerweening late writers especially seeing all the Fathers ioyne with vs against them Ignatius speaketh of an eldership of ministers of the word men subiect to the Bishop conuersant in the ministration of sacraments of these aldermē that albeit they meddle neither with worde nor sacramentes and are base begotten and mishapen creatures yet take on them to depose Princes throwe out their Bishops at pleasure hee neuer heard any ynkeling nor speaketh one worde of them To his Eldership 1 Epist ad Trallen Magnes Ignatius maketh the Bishop superiour these giue to the Consist orie power to depose the Minister yea and accordingly we vnderstand that in Fraunce they haue thrust out many poore men which either haue perished for want or lāguished for pouertie and all because they were so sencelesse as not to vnderstand that Clownes are euil Iudges of the merites of learned men and accorde not with schollers nor schooles They alledge also 1 Apol. c. 39. libr. de baptism Tertullian to the same purpose but his words fit not their turne for he talketh of elders that managed the word and fed with doctrine and meaneth a synode of bishops or assembly of the ministers of the worde for those are called presidents and such presidents as dealt with the administration of sacraments Of these new aldermen which starting from their occupations and stalles runne rashly into church gouernment in Tertullians time there was no newes heard That the Elders he talketh of were ministers of the worde administred the sacramēts of baptisme is apparant in his booke of baptisme so that alleadging that booke the Libeller doeth nothing but turne the poynt of Tertullian against his motley 2 Tertul. de baptis de coron milit and party-natured aldermen For in in him the worde Presbyteri signifieth alwayes ministers of the word subiect to the bishop neuer any men of trade or occupation vsurping Church-gouernment and chalenging equall power with bishops as in the places aboue mentioned is euident The places of Cyprian make no more for his purpose then those before alledged out of Tertullian Ignatius In the 5 epistle of his second booke he declareth how he and his Collegues had ordained Aurelius a reader but that by Collegues is meant bishops is apparant for that bishops did onely ordeine Secondly for that priests were not Collegues to bishops but subiect to them Thirdly for that priests of one church had not to do in another but bishops had Fourthly because hee neuer heard of nor knewe any temporary prophane churchaldermen which were not ministers of the worde and sacraments Lastly for that he writeth to the elders supposed to be aldermen of the new creation not to ioyne with him but to declare what he had done he would haue done otherwise if priests had bene his Collegues In another place he saith he purposeth to doe nothing without the counsell of his Cleargie and consent of his people but that maketh nothing for the consistorie for in all lawes with vs the consent of the people is adioyned yet haue we no aldermen 〈…〉 the Consistorie doeth things without consent of the people albeit the same consisteth of aldermen And Cyprian albeit he would not then do yet sometimes did and might doe things by his owne authoritie Thirdly it is one thing to haue the counsell of men another to be ioyned in commisson with them for the Prince hath a counsel but no ioynt nor equall gouernours Lastly these elders were ministers of the worde such as residing now in Cathedrall churches were then liuing in cities about bishops Vnto the wordes of Cyprian in his 18 and 22 epistle of his third booke we will then yeelde answere when we finde any of that nomber for there are but 15 epistles in that boooke But this is an ordinary fault of this fellow to quote counsels bookes orations and epistles that neuer were in the world He alledgeth also the 5 9 epistle of Cyprians fourth book but in the 5 there is nothing but the name of Elder without the thing in the 9 there is neither the name nor any note of the supposed elders but contrariwise diuers reasons to shew the gouernment of the church to haue ben alwayes committed to the bishop and the vnion of the same to bee placed in consent of bishops not in supposed consistories That Cyprian knew no elders but ministers of the word these reasons do declare First for that not onely Deacons which were vnder elders but Readers also did deale in the worde and were accompted among the cleargie which was not communicated to men of occupation Secondly for that such elders as hee speaketh of dealt in sacraments and in the word for he 1 Lib. 3. cp 10. reprehendeth certaine for administring the sacraments to certaine that had not declared sufficient signes of repentance Thirdly for that they had 2 Vt sportulis iisdem cum presbyteris honorentur lib. 4. epist 5. wages fourthly for that they were not deposed at pleasure nor were temporary which is a qualitie incident to the newfoundland aldermen Augustine neuer so much as dreamt of Lay or temporary 3 De verb. Domini in Mat. ser 19. or occupacion aldermen nay himselfe diligently obserueth the distinction of the ministers of the word conuersant about the word and sacraments into bishops Priests Deacons 1 De cor grat cap. 11. He calleth the censures of the Church 2 Lib. de paenit medic cap. 2. 3. Episcopale iudicium and affirment that the keyes were to be vsed by Prelats which can no way be drawen to be vnderstoode of Lay aldermen This being considered the libeller saith his Aldermen are in these authors mentioned but obscurely but he had said farre more truely if he had said neither obscurely nor in any sort for darkenesse is not more obscure then the steps of these surmised fellowes and nothing more cleare then that they are not there To illustrate the former Fathers obscuritie he bringeth others which as he supposeth speake clearely The first is Ambrose but nothing doth hee speake to the Libellers content For he speaketh of a counsell of Elders that were ministers of the word and assistant to the bishop whom hee also calleth vicarios Dei antistites which cannot be vnderstood of these base and vnlettered aldermen whose hands
with gaine and other vanities are polluted whose ignorance maketh them vncapable of ecclesiastical function Those elders which Ambrose speaketh of assisted the bishop with coūsell these are not counsellers but controllers gouerners with voyces equall to the bishop His elders were in cathedrall churches onely these are in euery 3 So our platformers would haue it albeit the Geneuians practise be farre diuers paltry village Those were men learned these are ignorant marchants artificers and clownes for the most part Nothing can be more repugnant thē Ambrose and the Disciplinarians Ambrose 4 Lib. 8. cp 64. sheweth that excommunication belonged to bishops these put the keyes into the hands of strange elders yet very yong in Gods church good for nothing but to oppresse the ministerie and learning such elders as Ambrose speaketh of were deriued from the Iewes but such Aldermen as these haue deuised the Iewes had none Ambrose his elders were not temporary nor all of counsell these are Ambrose complayneth that the Bishop and his Clerkes did not liue in common as in time 5 Inter Can. Syluestri past yet such was the griedinesse of bishops that it was necessary to diuide the church goods and such was the negligence of priests that they were sent out of cities to dwell in the countrey which now is obserued and that which Ambrose complayned of restored viz. that certaine of the chiefe of the ministery should be assistant to the bishop what then would these fellowes haue more would they haue all the ministers of a diocesse to liue in one citie and to ioyne in hearing of all matters This would be a beginning of singular non residence cause of great trouble cōfusion not a meanes to do iustice but to hinder iustice After Ambrose succeedeth Hierome a mā most vnfit to speak for the new eldership for if that be true which he saith that bishops elders in the primitiue church were all one then away goe the aldermen that are no bishops which reason did so sticke to Bezaes fingers 1 De presbyter aduers Erast Epist ad Heliod disputing against Erastus for the eldership that hee could no way lay it downe handsomely without the ruine of his cause Againe if in Hieroms time all Clerkes did feede with the worde much more did priests Neither doeth it make for these mens cause that he saith that as the Iewes so the Christians had a Counsell in euery cathedrall church for that is his meaning for that was of ministers and is obserued in our cathedrall churches and vtterly ouerthroweth the presumption of these vnlearned aldermen that with vnwashen feete tread in the sanctuary with filthy hands leaden heads handle matters of religiō faith churchgouernment wtout colour or title taking the keyes out of the successors of the apostles hands Possidonius 2 In vit August Socrates albeit they are said to speake of the consistorie and that plainely 3 Lib. 5. cap. 21. yet cleerely ouerthrowe the same for neither of them euer vnderstoode or heard of any temporary lay elders such as are lately raised from the dunghill to the highest tribunall of the church Nor do they speake of others then such as liued in cōmunity with the bishops in their cathedrall churches such as we haue in our church of which also the canon 4 Dist 95. c. ecce 15. q. 7. si quid law maketh mētion declaring their office to consist in preaching administring the sacraments so that I cannot but wonder with what visage that libeller could alleadge the colledges of ministers of the worde assistant to bishops in their Cathedrall churches to proue Elderships in euery village assistant to euery minister and consisting of prophane and vnlearned men and neither hauing salary nor salt of discretion nor continuance as the other had Of these allegations therefore this conclusion may bee drawen out that in counsels Fathers and antiquitie there is not any argument or coniecture found of all that Discipline which these newfangled platformers desire Nay there is not any proofe for the same in the new writers onely I except the Geneuians and their followers that haue shamefully applyed scriptures to their Disciplinarian dreames The churches of Saxony Wittenberg Nuremberg Strausborgh Ausburg Frankeforde Hamborgh and other places of Germany the county Palatine except likewise the churches of Zuricke Berne Basill other true christian churches in Zuitzerland Denmarke Sueueland Pomerany Poland and Hungary and all the learned men that gouerned those churches both in their doctrine and practise are against the discipline of the new Consistories Moreouer those that speake for the Consistories are not all of one opinion In the state of Geneua there is but one cōsistory there are not many that agree about the proofe parts office or lawes of it In Geneua they doe not allow their consistory power to make or disanull lawes In Fraunce they giue that power to synodes The consistoriall discipline in France was at first receiued of a fewe and that not for euidence of Scripture or proofe or reason but by suffrages of the Nobilitie and Gentry whereof some too well liked the sacrilegious doctrine and by the earnest labour of Beza desirous to conforme other churches to that of Geneua most of the learned ministers dissenting from him and disallowing his absurde discipline and not yeelding before the Princes to whome they serued constrayned them What reason then hath any to pleade for the consistoriall gouernment which is vnknowen to all antiquite and repugnant to Apostolicall practise and the most florishing Churches in Europe and was receiued with grudge of learned men and onely resteth vpon the conceite of Caluin Beza Daneau and some halfe score of blind writers as Iohn Baptista that ignorant Italian and Sneccan and Bertrand de Loques and Oleuian and Robert Stephen a better Printer then diuine and Perot and de Plurre and I knowe not whom neither of marke nor qualitie especially seeing so many pregnant reasons are brought against the translation of it from the Iewes and establishment of it among Christians as none haue answered and this libeller thinketh it most wisedome to passe ouer with silence If this be a good argument that Daneau Bertrand de Loques Bastingius Iunius Piscator Oleuian Caluin Beza Sneccan and Iohn Baptista d'Aureli thinke so how good will this reason be that all the fathers of all ages haue bene of a contrary iudgement and diuers godly Martyrs and learned men in our Church and other reformed Churches in Germany Zuitzerland Denmarke induced with better reasons haue thought otherwise Besides all this it shall appeare that those authors which the libeller alledgeth neuer beleeued that eyther in time past there was a consistorie of partie coluored Aldermen like to that this libeller desireth or that such a one now ought to be placed in euery Church That Zuinglius shoul de teach or beleeue that Christ did institute such Aldermen
in his Church as these doe fancie I can no where find Neyther is it likely that he should teach that abroad which hee neuer deliuered to his owne Citizens at home Aretius 1 In 1. Cor. 12 speaketh of certaine elders in his Commentaries but whatsoeuer they were hee thinketh that they ought to haue no vse vnder the Christian Magistrate And therefore by this testimonie these fellowes cānot win any vantage That they were not like the disciplinarian Aldermen it may appeare for that during the times of persecution they supplied the magistrates office and dealt in all causes of the first Christians as hee thinketh Of such elders as Aretius speaketh of it may be that Illyricus had some such like conceit But farre were they both from the opinion of them of Geneua concerning their lordly consistorie that climeth vp aboue princes Out of 1 In 1. Cor. 12. Hemingius there cannot any such fancie bee gathered as this of my yong masters the Church aldermen writing vpon the 1. Corinth 12. hee doeth interprete the worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ordinances of ecclesiasticall discipline which amounteth nothing to the account of these fellowes yea hee alloweth the 2 Syntagm Heming prerogatiue and authoritie of Bishops aboue other ministers which can beare no sway among these lordly commanders The place of 3 In 1. Cor. 12. Hyperius maketh not to purpose for albeit he be produced by the libeller as a witnesse for the eldership yet doth hee testifie against it for hee saith not that any such aldermen as these conceyue were ioyned with the Bishop in gouernement and equall authoritie but that Bishops vsed the aduise of ancient and graue men not these rough hewen aldermen that are neyther wise nor graue but rather grieuous to Gods Church But most of all doe I wonder what reason the libeller had to cite 4 De reformand abusib ad Imperatorem Bucer who in the place quoted doth not so much as mention any elders much lesse teach their office qualitie and continuance but contrariwise hee sheweth that if there were no other difference betwixt the Papists and him hee would easily yeelde to bishops their titles and dignities and wisheth that Metropolitanes and other bishops woulde returne to the obseruance of ancient Canons And so farre was Bullinger from fauoring any such new packe of aldermen as these woulde haue that hee 5 In libr. erast de excom in fine yeelded his approbation to the opinion of Erastus that denied both the presbytery and presbyteriall censures Zegedin another of this mans witnesses doth say much against him concerning the 6 Loc. Com. pag. 202. superioritie of bishops and newe deuice of doctors and other poynts But where hee speaketh any one worde for the consistorial gouernours the place cannot yet be found what should I stand long in tracing out the notorious falsehood of this forger of false quotations in euery paticuler By these already examined you may vnderstand how honestly hee dealeth in the rest and by this also that it is knowen that the Churches of 1 Onely in the Palsgraues dition they say there is some haunt of the eldership to be found Germanie Denmarke and Zuitzerland doe all repell the eldership yea when certaine factious companions comming from Geneua would haue made some stirre in the ecclesiasticall gouernement at Zuricke Gualter resisted them and the magistrates sent them out of their citie to place their consistories in some other quarter in remotis Likewise doth he report vntrueth concerning M. Nowel M. Fulke and M. Whytaker M. Nowell speaketh some what concerning elders but that he meant the tēporary aldermen that sprung vp first at Geneua and now vse to come from the marchants stall and workehouse into the Church to order matters of faith and doctrine it cannot be surmised Neither hath the libeller any reason to build his fancies vpon M. Fulkes opinions for in the confutation of the notes of the Rhemish Testament he doth defend the gouernement of the Church of England as now it is albeit he was somtime of other mind yet did he afterward retract his former sayings And when Iohn Field contrary to his mind did publish the pamphlet called the learned discourse hee was offended with him and if he had liued would haue confuted the same himselfe Neither do I beleeue that M. Raynolds being so well conuersant in counsels and fathers doth admit an eldership contrary to the sayings and practise of both M. Whitaker is a man of too great iudgement to beleeue the vnlettered improbable deuise of the consistorie And well is it kowen that hee hath taught both publikely and priuately against it Neyther is it likely that hee hath nowe greater reasons to moue him since he maried in the tribe of those that fauour these conceites then before so that when al is come to all the authors of this discipline are 20 or 30 foreine authors and halfe a score English perfumed with the smoke of Geneua and wel read in Caluins Institutions And the grounds of it are not scripture nor antiquitie nor reason but conceyte and foolish fancie and the authoritie of such as deserue no credite speaking in their owne cause If the libeller thinke otherwise let him or else because hee is but a man of a weake brayne and small learning let any of the faction drawfoorth Caluins and Bezaes reasons nay let either Beza himselfe or any of them answere that which hath bene set forth against their opinions already and confirme Caluins and Bezaes weake and euill shapen reasons and then will the vanitie of all the newe platforme and also of these allegations appeare To prooue the continuance of the gouernement by Elders he falsifieth also diuers authors as Zuinglius Oecolampadius Capito Melancthon Bullinger and maketh lyes vpon Fulke and Reynoldes for I thinke master Raynoldes holdeth no such fancy And I am assured that Fulke retracted his opinion so that his onelie reason also for the continuance of the Eldership is because Miconius Micronius and Caluin Beza Daneau and Calueton Colladon Tauergues Perot Iacomot Duple Golart Pollan Perille Henry others neuer heard of in this horisō beleeue the continuance of the consistorial gouernment that we must renounce scriptures fathers and al antiquity which is neither a good nor learned kind of reasoning yet for any thing I can see it is not onely the best but also the onely reason he vseth deny the new fācies that they haue deuised embraced at Geneua you marre the frame of their consistory why wee should credit them against scriptures fathers stories there can be alledged no cause Much lesse is there reason we should beleeue Peter Carpenter a knowen Apostata from religion or Bodin a man better conuersant in pollicy then in diuinity and whose religion was al poperie yet if we should I do not finde any thing in eyther that soundeth to the honor of the Aldermens cause For 1 Aduers Fr.
portum Carpenter the matter is euident for he most bitterly inueigheth against them of Geneua and not very doubtful in 1 Bodini methodus historiae c. 6. Bodin For the wordes alleadged out of Bodin his methode of histories concerne the Aldermen nothing He speaketh of the censure of Bishops and did neuer imagine nor could conceiue that the censures of the Church were put in the hands of prophane men Illa pontificum censura saith he nihil maius aut diuinius cogitari potuit Secondly he doeth not commend the men he speaketh of but the censures for that they were so strictly executed Which commendation if magistrates were as willing to execute the censures of ecclesiastical Iudges with vs as at Geneua they are would no doubt worke like effectes with vs as with them And if the magistrate should not fauour them they would doe litle good in any place Thirdly he commendeth the same censure not as the institution of Christ or as a necessarie pollicie for the Church but as a very good pollitike and ciuill order deuised by men to keepe the common sort in awe But what if Bodin should say somewhat of matters he vnderstoode not his authoritie is very weake in this case being neither good in diuinitie nor excellent in pollicie and neither vnderstanding the state of Geneua nor our countrie and therefore no fit man to make vs here in England new lawes In the Harmony of Confessions there are certaine wordes inserted sounding much to the commendation of the Eldership Neither is it to be marueiled if they of Geneua that collected thē together made the wordes to sound as fauourably as might be for their owne state and gouernement but that all the churches or most of thē yea or any saue the disciples of the Geneuian eldership consent in one harmony of prayses of that forme of discipline cannot be proued No although the authors with 2 See the notes in the latter ende of the harmonie notorious falsifications wresting and forgerie drawe the sentences of the confessions frō their purpose to speake for the presbyterial gouernment Wherefore vnlesse the petitioner can iustifie this kinde of practise there is not so much credit wonne by the vaine names of Carpenter Bodin and the confessions of Churches as there is lost by forgerie falsifications and grosse leasings To strengthen the weake ioynts of this discrasied reason drawen frō authority he saith Frist that the consistorial gouernment is also receiued of the Churches of Heluetia the low countries Millain Poland and Hungarie Secōdly that it is vnder the Turke among the papists wherein he sheweth either singuler malice in lying wilfully or presumptuous ignorance in speaking of matters he vnderstood not For it is wel knowen that the churches of Heluetia neither haue Geneuian elders nor excōmunication And that the churches of the lowe countries to speake nothing of France nor Scotland liue in great confusiō disorder a matter rather to moue vs to refuse the consistorie then to embrace it And likewise it is euident that in Millaine Hungarie there is no visible church but of those that professe poperie And albeit there be some fewe elders amōg the papists of France Germanie and Hungarie yet doe they not shew thēselues nor haue they any allowance or thankes for being there But what maner of conclusion is this That because among papistes and Turkes Elders are receiued that we must also receiue them There are also Anabaptists Arrians and I know not how many heresies among the Turkes papistes which no reason requireth vs to embrace Poperie likewise is professed vnder the Turke not onely this consistorial discipline So that nothing can be more absurde then to conclude that therefore we are to admitte the Consistorie because it is crept in in Turky and among the papistes Likewise it is a vaine bragge to say That in the Church of Geneua Scotland France there bee thousands and ten thousands of the best diuines of the worlde I would the number of them were greater and their learning more excellent then it is I doe not enuie their nombers nor excellēcie but the rewarde of learning taken away and the great decay that hath hapned of late time in those churches doeth both teach vs what is now and what we are to feare and that when the reckonnig of good diuines is made it will come farre short of thousands much shorter of tenne thousands The ignorance want of ministers in France other Consistoriall places is too too lamentable such is the blessing of this countrie that one corner of England is able to match them all eyther in nomber or qualitie of learned men albeit we doe not reason from our owne authoritie The conclusion therefore that this bedlem discourser maketh is too too foppish viz. that Caluin and Beza and Tauergues and Chauueton and Perot and I know not who are more likely to finde out the trueth then the author of the remonstrance and my selfe for no man standeth vpon the authoritie of vs two though the simpler of vs in this cause feareth not T. Cartw. nor W. Trau no nor Beza their patriarke nor all their brags Neither doe I desire any man to beleeue me because I say so this is onely the conclusion of the platformers that beside the authoritie of men can say nothing for themselues But seing the interpretations of the consistoriall faction are fond fantastical singuler and contrary to scriptures to the Iewes histories to all the fathers and counsels yea contrary to all reason good concluding agree badly among thēselues and finally stand vpon the fooleries of the Geneuians their stupide followers vpon their falshood forgerie false allegatiōs abusing of scriptures I do thinke and auow that neither diuinitie nor humaine reason wil permit any man any longer to be abused by them or to giue credit to those that vse them Wherefore cōsidering the weake groundes which the consistoriall gouernement standeth vpon and the forgerie falshood and impudencie whereby it is supported and the disorder and confusion it would worke in the church in learning in lawes in her Maiesties authoritie in her reuenues in euery mans priuate right beside if it were receiued and lastly the seditious lewd courses that some men haue taken to establish the same If some haue bin punished it cannot be denied but that they haue wel deserued it yea that they haue deserued more punishment and lesse fauour For neuer was matter preferred with worse course which I doe not speake for that I would haue either the disciplinarians faultes or penalties aggrauated for the faults are grieuous in ough already and the punishment I referre to our superiors but least any should surmise they are wronged or that the lawes are rigorous or that the proceedings of her Maiestie and officers against them are iniurious For further declaration whereof I haue thought good not onely to answere the vaine cauils of the petitioner against the proceedings of
some did which inueighed against popish bishops and affirmeth that they woulde write so much against their father if hee were a bishop or non resident matters most absurde and false for neyther haue these leude and loose companions such a commission as had the Prophetes nor is the ecclesiasticall state to be compared with the idolatrous and wicked priests or popish bishops Neither haue the same followed the steps of Prophets or any propheticall persons Gods Prophetes they speake nothing but truth these are still telling vs prodigious and false tales of their consistorie and counterfeit discipline The Prophets neuer ray led against authority nor gouernors these raile against ecclesiastical ciuil gouernors and al that withstand thē the prophets shewed not thēselues vnnaturall to their parents these professe vnkindnes they did not assemble in seditious sort nor go about to make new lawes for the Church as these did They neuer by wicked conspiracy went about to establsh any newe fancies as did Wigginton Hacket Coppinger Cartw. Vdall and all that were acquainted with that action They neuer declaymed against others being most guilty thēselues as these fellowes do which being most negligent and loose in laboring most vnlearned and ignorant full of newe fooleries doe notwithstanding inueigh against others so bitterly that as this wise felow professeth they wil not spare their father no nor mother and why forsooth because they are of those which S. Paul speaketh of and telleth vs that they are without 1 2. Tim. 3.3 naturall affection This defence therefore is vnsufficient first for that it is false for they doe otherwise then they professe And secondly for that they confesse in this treatise at vnawares that they diffame her Maiesties gouernment affirming the same to be full of enormious corruptions and to haue in it reliques of Idolatrie and impietie and to mainteine a wicked and vnsufficient 2 The ministery of England is better without comparison then that of France Scotland or Dutchland ministerie imitating therein as vnderhand they insinuate the wicked kings of Israel and cruell tyrants that persecuted the Church And lastly for that hee auoucheth that in those times no man was accounted a diffamer of princes that spake against the ecclesiasticall lawes and state which cannot be prooued To iustifie his companions doings he telleth vs further a long discourse how they pray for her Maiesty how they pay subsidy how they fought for her Maiesty when the Spanyards were here And how some whom England shall remēber while it is England ventured as farre as any which is no more thē the papists professe nor thē Iewes Pagans do which yeeld al duties to princes fight when as the Puritanes plaied the cowards few shewed themselues for I knowe diuerse that being there sawe very fewe puritanes armed to mainteine this bragge But so deinty and nice they are that they exclame if they be not highly rewarded for euery litle dutie yea for fighting for themselues their countrey and plainely professe that without their desires for discipline they meane to withdrawe all duetie And therefore this is but a vaine bragge of praying preaching foure times a day and I knowe not what for their tumultuous praying and prating in those times did rather discourage then encourage any and was rather the beginning of tumult then any encouragement and hee that preached foure times a day had much idle talke and made many vnsauorie discourses But suppose some fewe of these men shewed themselues loyall and were so ventrous as to come to Tilberie or rayle against the Spanyardes yet others as it may well be surmised were framing supplications and prouiding horse and armes to come to present them al in armes Then did Martin frame his seditious libelles then others preached seditious sermons all tending to the weakning of those that willingly offred themselues in that seruice And Martin senior professeth that when the enemie was readie to assayle vs abroad there were a hundred thousand handes readie to subscribe the supplication of puritanes at home which saith he in good pollicie we being in feare of outward force might not bee denied nor discouraged Then which there can bee no greater argument of their disloyall proceedings Where they are charged with rayling against the princes gouernement they excuse it saying that therein they meant no more malice to her Maiestie then the godly prophets that vnder Ezekiah and Iosiah reprooued the abuses of the Church which is a point which must bee read with great patience for who can else endure to heare them compare themselues to the prophets their doings to the doing of the prophets the comparison being so vnlike Gods prophets were humble meeke peaceable and possessed with Gods spirit These are proude disdainefull contentious and driuen with other spirits They neuer spake against the state nor condemned the calling of priests nor said that the lawes were antichristian and diuelish these stand especially on these points abuse the gouernors and rayle against lawes and this fellowe as malepertly as the best He would further make the worlde beleeue that his clyents seeke onely for reformation and doeth euery where dubbe them with names of seekers of reformation But great difference there is betwixt pretence and performance Iacke Strawe and Wat Tyler and Kett of Norffolke and all rebels pretend reformation as well as these but the courses and deedes of both tend to nothing but disorder confusion the prince they would abase the Church they would spoyle the ecclesiasticall state they seeke to abolish learning and rewardes in all places where they come they take away Moreouer hee goein about to prooue that bishops may be hated for their doctrine and first for that they impugne that which heretofore they haue taught but neither is his cōlequent good nor antecedēt true for albeit that bishop Elmar spake sometimes against the excesse of bishops liuings as he then imagined not knowing in what state they stood yet did he neuer condemne the degree and dignitie of bishops nor did bishop Bollingham as it should seeme speake against the manners of others then papisticall bishops assuredly against the degree of bishops he neuer spake Neither are the opiniōs of one or two to be ascribed to all but if they which speake contrary to themselues deserue hatred what doeth Tho. Cartw. deserue that in many things speaketh hee knoweth not what in some things contrary to himselselfe as in election of ministers power of the presbytery and diuers poynts And what doth the Libeller deserue that confesseth hee talketh he knoweth not what contrarying his whole discourse Another reason hee bringeth to prooue that bishops may iustly be hated and that is because they confesse saith he infinite abuses to be in the church But the ground of the reason is false for no bishop did euer confesse so much nor doth it follow because some one speaketh vntrueth that all the cleargie of England should be maligned and hated Thirdly he thinketh
some mē that deale modestly a cloake to couer seditious persōs that deale factiously maliciously The lawes canōs which he mētioneth are vtterly mistakē Behold I pray you the mās simple skil first saith he there is a 2 32. q.r.c. apud law that womē should not sue their husbāds for adultery But in the place he quoteth there is no such matter nay which is worse Gratiā whō he quoteth hath no authority of law In that place there is mētion made that the womā shal not accuse her husband for adultery to haue him put to death which this wisard vnderstood not but thought thē to be forbiddē to sue their husbands for adultery But the 1 Gloss ibid. glosse telleth him that the contrary of that is law and the practise of ecclesiasticall courtes is contrary and so hath alwayes bene and many at this day doe sue their husbands in causes of diuorce for adultery The 2. 2 24. q. 2. c. vlt. Canon which he citeth and affirmeth to be contrary to Gods lawe is that heretikes after their death shoulde bee excommunicate But first it doth not appeare that it is lawe with vs. for as I haue already told him Gratian is no law So that I cannot but wonder what blockish conceite came into this mans distempered braine to talke of canon law that knoweth not what is law Besides it doth not appeare that this was practised before the statute of 25. H. 8 19. lastly the same is not cōtrary to Gods word for to the memory of wicked heretikes such as Arrius Eutyches Nestorius Macedonius Paulus of Samosata we say Anathema And if the libeller say not so he is a looser companion then I tooke him for The 3. Canon that he 3 30. q. 3. c. pitatium affirmeth to be cōtrary to Gods law and not to ours is that spirituall kindred shal hinder mariage But both is the same direct cōtrary to our lawes that only respect the degrees of cōsanguinity affinity such like as are mentioned in Leuit. not to Gods law where they list to vse it we allow no degrees of kinred to hinder mariage but such as are noted in Leuiticus Nor is it an offence against Gods lawe for some ciuil or domestical cause other then degrees of kindred to forbid mariage for some time with some persons And therefore they of 4 Ordonances de Geneue Geneua albeit they account the mariage of cosins germaine lawful yet thinke them not conuenient He alledgeth also certain canons that enioyne Clearks to fast 7 whole weekes before Easter forbid them to fast on thursday But that they were vsually obserued in England before that statute he sheweth not Neither doth he rightly quote the places So that if these malecōtent disciplinariās meane to speake hereafter against ecclesiasticall lawes they must sende vs foorth some wiser man then this libeller to speake in their cause for hee is but a simple fellowe to dispute and vnderstandeth iust nothing in lawe and very little in honestie That in king Henry and king Edwardes dayes order was taken for the collection together of lawes in vse is granted but that they meant to correct lawes in vse which this libeller doeth insinuate or did confesse that there be infinite corruptions in ecclesiasticall lawes which he affirmeth cannot be proued I will not longer stand vpon this point for that I haue spoken of it already and the same is beside the libellers purpose which should proue that Vdall and his consortes offend not against the statute of Eliz. 23. aboue mentioned But his reasons are all too weake for eyther stand they vpon false groundes or else are they mis-shapen and euil featured That which he saith of Wickleffe Suinderby Tindall Hooper Barnes Latimer and others whom he chargeth with speaking against the state of the Church and common wealth is vtterly vntrue let the places be shewed and their wordes set downe For in these that already are brought forth there is no such matter conteined they doe not call our lawes antichristian nor disgrace the gouernement of the prince nor condemne the superioritie of bishops nor raile at the preachers of the Gospel and gouernors of Christes church they neuer framed libels nor inuectiues against the state nor euer sought to haue a new found gouernement established in the church and albeit they inueigh against the manners of men and corruptions of those times yet shall you not finde any that hath written in Martins satyrical and doogeon stile nor that sought to haue either Church or state turned vpside-downe or committed to the direction of the common sorte compare them with these late rimers libellers and firebrands of sedition you shall see a wonderfull difference Further saith he some finde fault with the forfeiture of traytors landes some with the short returne of writs others with pluralities of fermes and engrossing of Mannors others with racking of rents and diuers other lawes and customes admit they did yet is not the fact of one an excuse for the offence of others we liue by lawes not by examples But it cannot be shewed that any euer so raged with malice against lawes as the Martinists did and doe those percase spake against some one or two lawes and that modestly submitting themselues to the controlement of their superiors they railed not against gouernors nor lanced them with malicious libels nor sought innouation but redresse of things disordered to all these examples therefore of Wickleffe Suinderby Hooper Barnes Latimer and those that haue found fault with some abuses in lawe I answere first that it is one thing to desire the reformation of some one abuse and another to desire the subuersion both of all ecclesiastical gouernors and lawes which cannot be without a dangerous innouation of state secondly that the course of the proceeding of those that haue spoken against mens manners and some one lawe is farre different from these mens doings and writings that striue for the new kingdome of the Consistorie lastly that Wickleffe Suinderby Tyndal Barnes Hooper Latimer spake against the corruptions of papisticall Bishops both in doctrine and manners yet neuer did they seeke for a new consistorial gouernement nor did they libell against the gouernors the lawes the state This is but the Consistorian stile lately founde out and practised by lewde lozels and satyricall backebiters of good men for which if no other punishment be laid on them yet they shall surely answere at the last dreadfull day if they repent and amend not Further it is a shamefull course though greatly pleasing these mens humors to take that which good men spake against pompous and tyrannicall Bishops that gouerned at pleasure and gaue ouer preaching altogether and to apply the same against Pishops that neither so excell in wealth but that many base scriuanos and marchants yea shoemakers and taylors surpasse thē nor in power but that meane companions abuse them are not popish tyrants but preachers of the
wee must tell him that where hee talketh of fiue hundred traytors that maintaine the present ecclesiasticall gouernement hee is out of reason and account and doeth nothing but rayle as well beseemeth his libelling humour The state and iurisdiction of bishops nowe in England dependeth externally on the Prince to him they are subiect and from him they receiue lawe finally they thinke it vnlawfull to rebell against him condemning all rebellious practises to pull downe his authoritie and to bring them vnder but the proud and insolent Consistory claymeth power aboue princes and rendreth in Ecclesiasticall matters account to none but God as they professe the same acknowledgeth it felse subiect to none and prescribeth lawes to Princes yea teacheth and putteth in practise rebellion against them and therefore when there is speach of loyaltie and obedience let the Libeller henceforth take heede how he compareth the most factious and suspicious gouernment to Princes that euer was to our ecclesiasticall gouernours which in their doctrine and life cannot bee noted of any disloyaltie And finally let him holde his peace and thanke God for the princes clemencie For it is not the innocencie of his Clients nor the eloquence of the aduocate that can cleare the disciplinarians from faction In such bad causes repentance and submission is best defence the next is silence And therefore wisely did he passe ouer that offence for which Iohn Vdall was conuicted and condemned Onely this fault hee committeth herein that forgetting howe before hee had promised to answere for him now hee leaueth him to answere for himselfe and like a man that had lost both memorie and wit runneth out into an idle discourse of othes Ex Officio and an inuectiue against Iudges and furiously rayling at the State calleth such as speake in defence of it Traitors and Rebels To terrifie the Iudges hee cyteth certaine Textes of scriptures ill fitting his purpose For neither as hee sayeth are his consortes Saintes nor doe they suffer for holinesse nor are they put to death howsoeuer they deserue it That sentence of 1 Iames 1. Iames rather belongeth to them If any man deemeth himselfe to be religious and refaineth not his tongue but seduceth his hart his religion is in vayne or that rather Woe bee to 2 Matth. 23. you Scribes and Pharises ye hypocrites yee are like to whited sepulchres faire without and within full of bones of dead men and all filthinesse And albeit Iohn Vdall had the name vnwothy to be a Preacher yet neuer any worse deserued it being euery way vnsufficient nor tooke a more factious course This fellowe braggeth hee was no murtherer yet if hee had proceeded further I knowe what woulde haue followed So arrogant hee is that hee imagineth all fooles but such as like his fancies But if the 3 Pag. 49. Iudges haue so little skill in condemning such a Minister as Iohn Vdall why doth not this great Clarke shewe it this is impudencie to condemne such reuerend learned men of ignorance and to shewe no reason Besides this in lawe there ought to be no respect of persons Howe then can there bee such difference betwixt ministers and others if ministers offend as well as others Either this man meaneth to challenge immunitie or els hee meaneth if euer he bee a Iudge to respect persons Some haue painted Iustice blinde but this man woulde haue them iudge with spectacles His accusation against such as speake in defence of the state will neuer be prooued he racketh and teareth their sayings as a man lying without conscience and shame yet will they not reach to his purpose Concerning master Dalton whom he accuseth as the Bishops factor it is an easie matter to answere hee hath more honestie learning and lawe then is to be found in all the Puritanes distempered braynes The cause he defended was not the Bishops but of religion learning and the Church Hee chargeth the Bishops that they write in a certaine 1 Admon a g. M. M. p. 252. booke that it is not lawfull to bestowe such liuings vpon laye men as are appoynted by lawe to preachers of the word But neither doe the Bishops say it nor is that booke that is quoted the Bishops nor is it likely that so graue men had so litle to doe as to busie themselues with the answering of such a vaine Libell as Martin and Martins barking sonnes But whose-soeuer the saying is it is iustifiable for if the liuings bee appoynted by lawe to preachers what law is it to infringe law that the Queene doeth keepe the temporalties of Bishops in her hands during the vacation is by law not against law So likewise it is lawfull to holde some Ecclesiasticall liuings that be appropried As for Wiclefs words against the excesse of his times they are euill extended against the want of ours and are voyde of reason for what reason is it that for the default of one a succession should be spoyled as he would haue it But sayth hee who woulde not thinke the superfluities of Bishops liuing better bestowed vpon such a man as Sir Francis Walsingham that right honourable Chancellour and benefactor of the Church and Countrey then vpon any Bishop Wherein hee doeth wrong to the memory of that good knight and in needelesse discourse bringeth his name in question To his supposall I answere that there be very wise men that thinke the liuings of Bishops better as they are and I thinke hee would so say if hee were aliue and were asked the question for no man was more desirous then hee of true honor neyther is any thing more dishonourable then to rise by the spoyles of the Church that hee pretendeth to loue nor to take that to him selfe which was giuen to other vses Neyther doe wee reade of any that hath risen by the spoyles of the Church that hath long prospered or enioyed them nor haue the Papistes any thing to obiect against vs more then sacriledge and spoyle of the Church As for the superfluities of bishops there is order taken Take foure of the best bishops in England and there will bee found eight knights euery one whereof shall farre ouermatch them in reuenues Take eight bishops next in liuing to the greatest and there will bee found two hundreth esquires euery of which shall ouerpasse them diuers yeomen clownes and marchantes doe farre excell the rest Why then should any enuie to men of learning and qualitie the estate and liuing of knights esquires yeomen and clownes It will bee sayde these haue it by inheritance but why should it not as well be lawfull to haue it and winne it by industrie as by inheritance But I am glad I know why all this while the petitioner barketh so loude Hee woulde haue great men fall to spoyling that hee might light vpon some reuersion or like a dogge gather vp crummes vnder the table when men shall ryot with Churches rapines well for his good will when churches come to be spoyled let him out
of the belfray take a rope for his paynes Hee belyeth Doctor Bridges shamefully for hee maketh him to say that a Priest may haue a moderate lordly iurisdiction ouer all the Lordes allotment where in trueth hee doeth not so much as mention Lordly iurisdiction but superioritie and that ouer the Cleargie in seuerall Congregations and not in the whole Church Therefore let him make proofe how this superioritie or maintayning of Churchliuings in their proper state can bee drawen to prooue that such as defende the state diffame the Queene or seeeke to mooue insurrection If not let him remember that both hee forgeth and runneth from his purpose like a babbling discourser wandring in a sea of wordes without compasse of style or discretion Likewise hee fableth that Doctor Bancroft writeth that her Maiestie is a petie Pope which is a gracelesse or shamelesse assertion or both for who woulde not bee ashamed but these swelling mindes that thinke they may speake what they list to ascribe that to Master Bancroft that hee reprehendeth in Martin His wordes are playne his minor 1 Pag. 68. saith he meaning Martin viz. that her Maiestie is a pety Pope may thus bee prooued If the Libeller holde on this course of lying hee will prooue many strange and wonderous matters especially among the Disciplinarians whose consistories is built on lyes But if they diffame her Maiestie that holde her to be a pety Pope as the Libeller by many great wordes and vnnecessary proofes in a matter confessed auoweth then is Martin and his partakers felonious diffamers of her Maiestie for hee holdeth that whosoeuer taketh on him the authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall which the Pope had is a petie Pope as before is sayde But that authority the whole parliament giueth to her Maiestie May it therefore please the Libeller to barke against the Parliament or els against Martin Against Master Bancroft that neyther thought it nor wrote it nor spake it but reprehendeth it in the person of Martin there is no cause for him to declayme all this Libelling notwithstanding the petitioner calleth his consortes our brethren but if his brotherhood consist in such scurrilous rayling let him seeke other brethren The brotherhood and felloship of Christians is knowen by loue The badge of puritanisme is vnnaturall and vnkinde and vnbrotherly dealing And therefore I doubt whether they be brethren or no both considering their hereticall opinions and also their vncharitable and vnchristian rayling And yet I say notwitstanding all this vnnaturall dealing that the bishops so much as they might yea too too much haue dealt remissely against such contumatious and worthlesse disturbers of the Church And that not for any thing which appeareth in this accusers wtitings wherein they see nothing but velliacry and presumption and vanitie but in respect of their owne milde natures Christian affection and desire of peace which these fellowes scorned In the ende hee concludeth that considering the doubtfulnesse of these controuersies hee trusteth her Maiestie will take some good order for the peaceable debating of them hauing I say reuelde at full both against ecclesiasticall and ciuill iurisdiction and that before so mightie a prince whose presence he ought more to haue reuerenced hauing also at such time as hee was to speake to her Maiestie talked against all decorum with by standers yea with those that were absent nowe as it were before his death he commeth home to himselfe and prayeth her Maiestie to take some good course for the peaceable ordering of these controuersies as if all her former lawes all her care all her proceedings were not to bee valued in one haire And as if rayling and accusing deserued fauour or his dispute credite or his insolencie pardon I doubt not buther Maiestie of her wisedome seeth the impudencie of the man the weakenesse of the cause the wrong done to others but especially to her selfe her gouernement and her lawes-that others may see it I haue lightly framed this answere lest the foole should enter into conceipt of his wit and others be abused by his malice not in many words for what should I stand about that wherin is nothing but pride ignorance and choller Now because by alledging their opinions he would make the world beleeue that his clients are slandered I wil shew that he 1 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 smootheth some things that are hard and concealeth many things that are worse and therefore that he and his clients are to be taken as they are The words I haue set downe and by them my answere reade with iudgement iudge with equity shewe equity to trueth Obseruations vpon certaine opinions commonly holden by the puritanes and collected by the said author of the petition with answeres to their petitions and desires ioyned with the foresaid opinions The words of the petitioner TO the end it may appeare how vniustly the seekers of reformation are slandered by the bishops Petitioner and others I haue thought good briefly truly to deliuer the opinions of such as sue for reformation which I haue gathered out of their bookes and seene in their practise and heard in conference which I had with them Neither hath the man deliuered his consorts opinions truly Answere nor was it sufficient if hee had meant to cleare them from slander to deliuer some part of their opinions vnlesse he had also deliuered their whole doctrine concerning their consistoriall discipline for what excuse may it bee for an here-tike to beleeue well in some poyntes or for leude men to doe something well But this generall doctrine of theirs neyther doth he nor durst hee deliuer it was somewhat too hoat and sawcie The soueraigntie of the aldermen in making lawes iudging and excommunicating princes dissoluing the lawes of the land taking away her Maiesties prerogatiue in pardoning offences and depriuing her of the argument she hath to shewe her clemencie in in diminishing her reuenues hee concealeth Neither doth hee reueale vnto vs those mysticall rules whereby the consistoriall faction doth ouerthrowe the parliament the apologie and fayth of this Church the Vniuersities and many priuate mens interest Likewise hath he passed ouer in goodly glosing wordes and not once mentioned other dangerous poynts That therefore which hee wanteth to the intent that wee may haue a perfect draught of the alestond of this newe brewed discipline I purpose to set down and to declare vnto you both their doctrine and their practise So that you may perceiue that they are vainely tearmed seekers and sewers for reformation And that the cause wee defende is not the cause of bishops whom we leaue to defend their doings themselues but the cause of God of religion of our countrey of the prince of learning of the whole ministerie against factious mates and heretical schismatikes and enemies of the ministery learning that in these dangerous times go about to make an vproare in their countrey and a spoyle of the rewards of learning If then that which is best in
words of the commandement and declare what father euer so thought if he beleeue it and cannot bring forth any place but wrested he will be taken for a man building his faith on sand and shal be had forth for a forger and deuiser of strange nouelties and condemned in amendes for making leasings of his consistorie They professe and protest this reformation to be most agreeable to scriptures Petitioner to learned writers yea commanded by Christ and not preiudiciall to the state if they may be heard But we looke for proofe Answere not for protestations the vanitie whereof is too too apparant in the puritanes proofes must cary away the matters and not brags But proofes can they bring none for wee haue shewed that both scriptures and fathers are against them and nothing can they say to the contrary yet haue they bin heard to the wearinesse of al their readers scorne of their discipline and shame of their actions neither is it to be presumed that they can speake better then they haue written nor will performe more then they haue done or any part of that they haue promised they haue none that taketh part with them in this cause but the Geneuians and their followers whether these be to be heard against all antiquitie let all men iudge and therefore if they be wise let them take heed that their cause come not in hearing for then both the noueltie fondnesse and iniustice of it of euery reasonable man will be condemned This is the somme of their professed opinions and reformation Petitioner No reformatiō by your leaue neither any perfect somme Answere for there wanteth a good part of all for the chiefe poynt that they desire is that bishops liuings cathedral churches may come to diuision that these hungry hines that haue spēt their wits wealth in vanity may now be relieued with sacriledge Next to this they desire that certaine factious mates vnder the name of elders may haue the disposing of all ecclesiastical matters that when the first spoiles of churches are spent they may by their elderly wisdome command worke the sacke of the Nobility also They would also if they durst speake it craue that the Prince Parliament Counsel Iudges would giue ouer their charges in ecclesiastical matters that their synodes consistories people might either rule as they list or liue as they list A small point in these mens conceits may it therefore at these mens requests please her Maiestie and all officers to giue vp their estate that these new lords may rule Fourthly they desire that all lawes that make against them being abrogated their word may be accounted good law and that all law may proceed out of their diuine brests and good reason for like yong Popillions they say that they iudge in Christes seate and sit as Christes vicars and that their sentence is Christes sentence and yet is the same no more but the conceit of foure or siue beetleheaded Clownes or Marchants guided by one blinde man that neuer looked out of schooles called by them pastor president of the consistory Fiftly they seeke the ouerthrow of the state of religion of learning they would make the prince subiect to themselues and dispose of her reuenues and crowne Lastly they desire that all artes and studie of diuinitie ceasing only mē would professe discipline which is that diuine state as they thinke which Plato speaketh of in his vtopicall common wealth and these are their opinions for gouernmēt Their opinions for doctrine are also diuers very dangerous to the state hereticall in respect of christian faith as before I haue in part noted put both together there is no mā either wise or learned or loyall to the State that will eyther yeelde to graunt them their desires or els to heare thē motioned being so vnreasonable Neither is it true that hee saith that men doe intollerably slaunder his consorts their wordes beare witnesse their writings and doings conuince them neither shall they euer be able to cleare themselues I haue not alledged any thing without reason why then do they not cleare their deuises accused of falshood imperfection and notorious iniustice why did not this author if hee meant good dealing set his name to his booke how can he excuse himselfe either for his libelling or slaundering his excuse is most wicked marueile not saith he good reader that I doe not affixe my name to this my Treatise it is not knowen who was the writer of the epistle to the Hebrewes As if that epistle were to bee compared to this Libell or the author thereof to this raylor nothing is more contrary It is well knowen that that epistle was written by the spirite of God this dogrell treatise is knowen to be deuised by Satan the sower of contention and lewde opinions among brethrē The writer of that epistle is not knowen yet no man doubteth of the authoritie of it The writer of this Libel is wel knowen I would he so well knewe himselfe His bedlem fits also and helpers he had in his writing are knowen A childe may see that in the whole there is neither wit nor learning nor ought but friuolous rayling and libelling and slaundering and therefore no man giueth any credit or commendation to it But this it pleased him to alledge because Th. Cartwright alledgeth the same excuse for not putting his name to his first reply Let them therefore bee put both together for they are byrdes both of one plumage and qualitie and percase if they write bookes whereto they dare not affixe their names may haue their eares affixed where they would be ashamed He alledgeth further that no indifferent welwiller may scarcely be heard to speake the trueth charging her Maiestie and the gouernours not onely with notorious iniustice but also with resistance to the trueth and that most vntruely and disloyally for her Maiestie hath but too much heard them speake albeit against trueth yea against her dignitie and gouernment and suffred their Legendicall tales of their elderships of which if they were not ashamed they would not flie the light like owles nor walke abroade in libels in the night like night walkers other euil disposed persons nor would they send vs forth such frāticke lunatike persons as this author that barketh at euery shadowe yea at shadowes in moone-shine to speak for this glorious cause as they cal it nor would he desire men to hide him as Rahab did hide Gods seruāts wherein he doeth shamefully abuse this whole State comparing the same to Iericho and the Magistrates to the wicked Cananites accompting onely those that are of his faction for Gods seruāts Would we suffer such cōtumelious speeches yet all posterity will cry shame on these raylors I doubt not but the Magistrates wil consider of them In the meane while let him vnderstande that this example fitteth him not for Rahab did hide no libellers nor railers against
the state nor are the women he frequēteth so honest as Rahab nor is it a seemely matter for such a braue challenger to make a brag so to run away nor decency for him that preferreth a supplication to the Queene that kneeleth before her Maiestie to hide himselfe his name nor can it stand together that a man should kneele before her Maiestie and yet conceale his name and person He promiseth when his apparance shall be found more profitable then his concealement that he wil come forth and try himselfe a proper man but he had best come forth in time lest if as he saith he be in concealement some one or other begge him of the Queene for to her belong both concealements and the custodie of Ideots He braggeth that he williustifie his wordes in such maner and forme as he hath written them but goodman he neither vnderstandeth what he hath written nor hath furniture nor stuffe in him for so hard an encounter for hee holdeth more of Luna then Mars and is rather lunaticall then martiall It is not long since his Bedlem fits left him Of Logicke he hath no taste nor yet of Diuinitie why then should he like a desperate sotte or like a man without armes or order of warre venture into so dangerous a battell His good masters are quite fled out of the fielde and all their newe disciplinarian deuises are vanished away like cloudes and onely remaine in certaine idle mens braynes who may in time percase disgest them and therefore if this sentence nubecula est citò transibit please him let him write it vpon the doore of the consistory for like a cloude it hath bene lift vp and like a cloude it hath bene tossed with contrary opinions and like a cloude it is almost vanished away And thus much concerning the petition Now let vs consider his Articles and Questions not that they conteine any new matter for both his petition articles and interrogatories proceede from the same malice and tende to one ende and conteine the same odious accusations against the State but for that wee meane not to leaue vnto these men any shadow or pretence for their cause If the same things bee often repeated blame him that so often obiected the same not them that answere their calumnious and vayne obiections accusations are often odious defence of orders and lawes cannot but fauourably be esteemed WHEREIN IS CONTEINED AN ANSWERE TO CERTAINE Articles and Questions annexed to the foresayd Petition wherein the Libeller hath spread diuers slaunders against Ecclesiasticall gouernours and their proceedings The Title to the Articles CErtaine Articles wherein is discouered the negligence of the Bishops their Officials Fauourers and Followers in perfourmance of sundry Ecclesiasticall Statutes Lawes and Ordinances royall and Episcopall published for the gouernement of the Church of England Answere THE Libellers purpose was in pretence onely to defend but I perceiue albeit beside his purpose now he meaneth to strike and offend and that in treason and in the darke when no man can strike him againe A common tricke of Libellers that deuise what reproche they can against such as they hate and publish them then renounce them So this fellowe goeth about to bring bishops in disgrace then all those Ministers that liue in obedience of Lawes But he meaneth not to stand to the matter for he concealeth his name Well let vs see what he saith against Bishops and other Ministers and ecclesiasticall persons Much it should seeme he cannot say for he is ignorant what are Ecclesiasticall lawes and by what autthoritie they stand and calleth them Ordinances royall and Episcopall when it is euident that there is no lawe in England but Royall and that no bishop may make any ordinance or Lawe Article 1 By the statute 25. H. 8.14 it is accompted by the Parliament against equitie due order of iustice to bring any man in danger of his life name goods or landes by any intrapping Interrogatories without verdict witnes presentment or confession c. for making printing or dispersing of seditious bookes sundry other grieuous crimes c. Answere Neither is the statute truely reported nor is it proued that the bishops or their officers proceed cōtrary vnto it or other lawe concerning that poynt as this false accuser pretendeth For the first it is euident for that which the statute decreeth cōcerning heresie this accuser trāsferreth to printing writing seditious bookes as if it were to be presumed that as innocents by that statute were deliuered from trappes of heresie so such seditious offenders libellers were protected by law against law whereas there is no mētion nor intendment of any such matter in that statute The second appeareth for that the Accuser doth not once charge the high commissioners at which he aymeth with breach of this statute He knew very wel v t there is nothing in their proceedings contrary to this statute For they do not as this libeller surmiseth minister captious interrogatories Secondly they do proceed to punishment against none but conuicted by lawful witnesses euidence or confession neither otherwise then by warrant of their commission which I would gladly see the libeller whether he dare to oppugne That which is set in the side Of oath ex officio perteineth not to this matter for in this statute there is no word cōcerning any oth And therfore he that put the same there did like him stroke a faire blow but touched not his aduersary Article 2 All men are baylable that are not prohibited by law to be bayled 2. West c. 15. Answere These words are not found in the place quoted nor any of such nature no nor in any other place Percase the Libeller meaneth as wel to forge new lawes as new religion If he meaneth the statute made at West 1. Ed. 3. c. 15. yet is there no such matter for there we find rather who are not to be bailed then who are to be bayled which is to be gathered out of the statutes common lawes against which if he wil charge the honourable persons of the high commission to haue proceeded why doth he not note the fact and time other circumstances If hee thinke that either those that are taken by the writ de excommunicato capiendo or such as are committed by the high cōmissioners ecclesiastical for contempts are bayleable he neither vnderstandeth law nor statute for law auctoriseth both And if it should not then would penalties be frustratory and offenders be rather protected by law then by lawe punished Article 3 No officiall nor other officer should take any more thē three pence for the seale of a Citation els they forfeit double costes c. Answere Why doe you not sue them vpon the statute if they take more you might make a goodly gaine in promoting of matters against them but you will not your proofes are so sclender That Officials others do take more then they ought for seales of processes I
know not if they doe I defend them not But sure I am that no officers take lesse To let others passe I know certaine Pettifoggers and Scribes like the forgers of these articles that by taking are growen to wealth and a Scribe that for signing and sealing a letter hath had not three pence but three pounds and a good gelding for expedition neither is any thing more vsuall then the bribery extortion and coosinage of these companions that are most busie in watching and accusing of others Let them therefore take heede that they may be able to cleare themselues and for ecclesiasticall officers that haue taken more then ordinarie spare them not In this taking worlde it were good that takers of all sortes were looked vnto Article 4 No forreyn constitutions c. haue any force in our state 25. H. 8. cap. 19. yet the Bishops in their consistories practise Romish and Imperiall constitutions Answere In these few words many great faults are cōmitted first he iumbleth Romish Imperiall constitutions together as if the same were both one or as if the law of the Pandects were called Constitutiōs secondly he calleth her Maiesties lawes forrein lawes making this realme crowne to depend vpō forrein power which is derogatorie to her Highnesse auctoritie and contrary to practise of Lawe For whencesoeuer any lawe is deriued yet is it the lawe of that countrey where it is practised The lawes of the Romanes for the most part were borrowed of the Athenians and Spartans yet were it absurde to call the lawes of the twelue tables the Lawes of the Greekes Thirdly ignorantly he supposeth that the statute condemneth forreyn lawes yet doeth it not speake of any forreyn lawes but onely of the ecclesiasticall lawes of Englande the equitie whereof is so apparant that if twelue Consistories and so many Scribes and Proctors should all ioyne their heads together yet could they not deuise any one lawe so equall as the worst of these that are in vse and those that haue gone about to make other Lawes and correct the olde haue committed such errours as their friendes may bee greatly ashamed in their behalfe The Ordinances of Geneua and articles of French discipline and that pelfe that ours call Holy Discipline shall testifie this to bee true as by particulers I will shewe when neede is Lastly they charge the Bishops for putting in vre forreyn Constitutions and yet cannot name one 1 In their meetings at Warwike Cambridge Oxford especially when the new discipline was vpon forging But if the Bishops offende that execute her Maiesties Lawes howe will this Accuser answere for his Clyents that haue in secrete conuenticles enacted and also practised Canons and Lawes directly contrary to her Maiesties Lawes and Prerogatiue and therefore are to suffer imprisonment and pay fine at her Maiesties pleasure by the same statute they alledge against vs. Article 5 Such Canons and Constitutions onely as bee not repugnant to the Lawes Statutes and Customes of this Realme ought to be put in practise 25. H. 8. c. 19. But the bishops giue sentence in infinite matters which would be otherwise ruled by the Common Lawes Answere If the Bishops or other Ecclesiasticall officers should deale either contrary to Lawe or without warrant of Lawe they coulde not escape punishment hauing so many spitefull eyes to watch ouer them neyther if they should attemptit would the reuerend Iudges which are to grant prohibitions in that case permit it If they doe against the lawes of the Realme why are not the lawes named and men charged and the fact noted This silence of the babling accuser is their sufficient discharge and his vaine discourse voyd of reasons a condemnation of his babbling Article 6 The Bishops haue reckoned such men as haue bene ordeyned ministers in reformed Churches to be lay men Answere All haue not so reckoned them yet if they had they had not done it without cause for they thēselues say the bond is only mutual betwixt the minister that particular congregation whereof he is made minister and that one congregation cannot appoint ministers for another and our lawes allow none but made after our orders Why then do not new made ministers packe away to their makers Why doe they run away from their congregations like recreant souldiours from their stations Here they haue no calling Both popish priests and they alike may wel be accounted with vs to haue no calling being both by their owne doctrine and by the statute of 13. Eliz. c. 12. debarred from the ministerie and for their hatred to the Church most vnworthy of any ecclesiasticall function or to liue in the Church which with all their might and malice they haue oppugned Article 7 The law requireth a subscription to articles of religion onely that concerne the confession of true faith and doctrine of sacraments 13. Eliz. c. 12. The bishops vrge a subscription to the bookes of homilies and diuers ceremonial and transitory matters neyther concerning faith nor sacraments Answere The statute requireth subscriptiō to the booke of articles and euery article therein conteined among therest to the doctrine cōcerning our ecclesiastical regiment Homilies that is cleare by the words of the statute that mētioneth the booke and al the articles therin conteined and by interpretation of the most learned lawyers And if it were not so thē would it followe that a great part of that booke which the parliamēt meant to confirme is voyde which were to euert lawes by cauils as these doe not to interpret lawe Neither doth it helpe the platformers that the title of the booke is Articles concerning faith and sacraments For things are denominated of the greatest part and in our account matters of gouernment are directed by the word of God which is the ground of faith Neither woulde it bee taken if any papist should take exception to any article in that booke and not subscribe for that it apperteyneth not to faith nor sacraments Besides the allowance of lawes and statutes the Bishops for this subscription that is required vnto three articles haue sufficient warrant In vaine therefore woulde the articulators oppugne lawes by law and disloyally doe they spurne at her Maiesties authoritie yea in cases wherein they cannot take any iust exceptions bluntly subscribing to al the fond discipline of Geneua to the which wee can take so many sufficient exceptions But if it be such a fault to make men subscribe to lawes whereunto euery man is supposed to yeeld his consent in parliament and whereto euery one ought to obey what punishment doth T.C. and his bold companions deserue that subscribed to canons constitutions made in a corner directly ouerthrowing her Maiesties supremacy ecclesiastical lawes a great part of the lawes of the realm if they were receiued And if subscription bee so heynous a matter why is it required at Geneua in France to most simple orders not for gouernement but for the vtter debasing impouerishing and
is offended with not singing which he affirmeth to be no small peccadillio So neither singing nor saying pleaseth them What then is best for them Forsooth silence That any doeth offend in this point when hee is put to it he will not be able to iustifie Article 18 The names of the Communicants before they receiue should be signified to the Curate yet this is not regarded in most places Answere That is not the Curats fault but rather of those that should signifie it if any be Let the Communicants therfore signifie their names The curates to please his maship shall be alwayes readie to open their eares which notwithstanding will not make for the libellers aduantage for if his name be brought hee will be vndoubtedly repelled for an vncharitable person vnsit to communicate among Christians Article 19 Notorious lewd persons be admitted to the Communion yet should the Curate repell such Answere If they doe repell such as it is notorious then is this libeller a notorious lyer yea a lyar and slaunderer in print But hee percase counteth those men notorious offenders which any one suspecteth Which if it were true then are most putitans notorious lewde persons that are commonly suspected for such and not without cause For further answere I say that such as by sentence of the Iudge are pronounced culpable which are in deede notorious offenders are repelled and that to repell others were a course full of disorder and iniustice And lastly that hereafter such notorious rayling puritans as doe slaunder religion shall bee better looked vnto and be repelled both from the Communion and all honest mens societie being enemies of learning and scandales of religion Article 20 The Minister shoulde vse the ornaments appointed by King Edwarde Answere And doeth he not so If any doe otherwise it is of the factious sorte that deserueth punishment But saith the libeller the Clarke doeth also weare a surplice As if it followed because the Clarke weareth a surplice that the Minister doeth not All like as if a man should conclude because Giles Wiggington hath some little witte that this libeller hath none The meaning of the lawe is that such ornaments shall be vsed as were appointed by king Edward where other order should not be takē For later lawes abridge the former If then the accuser can shewe that lawes are not herein obserued he shall doe vs great fauour to name the offenders Article 21 In Cathedrall Churches the Communion should be ministredeuery Sunday at the least Answere If often Communions be commendable then is our Church to be preferred before that of Geneua that communicates onely quarterly Better therefore it were for malice to keepe silence then to say that which is nothing Let him if he can detect those that are culpable Article 22 The Godfathers doe not their duetie neither doe Bishops vrge them Answere Let him shewe that Bishops may doe it by lawe and then reproue them for not doing their duetie If it be left to the conscience of Godfathers to doe their dueties why should the Bishops be charged with other mens faultes Forsooth this libeller meaneth to lay all faultes on the Bishops backes I would to God for my part there were no faults but in Bishops so farre am I from enuying any mans puritie But this puritie I feare is but hypocrisie For many puritans mislike Godfathers and are very impure in life and conuersation Article 23 Bishops are commanded to confirme children yet fewe doe it Answere The puritans commonly deride Confirmation albeit a most auncient and Christian ceremonie This fellowe chargeth Bishops with a great fault for omitting it How will these agree Nay how will this companion verifie his assertion being most vntrue But if any bishops doe not confirme children it is because certaine factious persons haue perswaded the people to refuse it and that verie wickedlie not onely fantastically Article 24 Curates doe not instruct seruants and youth vpon holydayes Answere Causeles doeth this accuser barke against Curates seeing he cannot charge any particuler If he can let him call him before his superiors The exercise is good and godly neither doeth any account it tyrannie to instruct the ignorant But sure great presumption it is for yong puritans publiquely to examine graue and discreete men that know more then themselues and indiscretion to vse examination as the disciplinarians would haue it vsed Article 25 None should be admitted to the Communion that cannot say the Catechisme Therefore Curates should examine communicants and seelude them that be wanting in knowledge Answere Can you shewe any Curates that haue not done their dutie herein If you can carrie them before the Ordinarie they craue no fauour In the meane while learne this lesson of me Shewe not your cancred malice against good Ministers There is none but liueth as well as puritans nor any so base that may of a Pettifogger or Scriuano be contemned nor any that is more ignorant in their Catechisme then puritans that neuer enter deeper then the paraphrase of their Creede and pater noster Article 26 Banes should be asked three seueral Sundayes in the open Church yet the Bishops dispence with banes Answere In the booke it is Sundayes and Holy dayes this is therefore his first error The second is that he misliketh dispensations for both by law and customes of this Church and for good causes are they granted Neither doeth the affirmatiue without the negatiue in any lawe take away a custome that may stand with the lawe as in this case The lawe will haue banes three seuerall dayes proclaymed That no dispensation be graunted the lawe hath not Wherefore seeing dispensations are confirmed by lawe and not taken away by this Rubricke let the accuser holde his peace and cease to proclaime his owne follie and to worke the bane of his cause and finally while he would shewe skil in lawe to proue himselfe deuoyde of lawe and reason Article 27 The partie presented to the Bishop should weare a plaine Albe yet this garment is not vsed Answere In the booke of ordering Ministers there is no such garment appointed And if it were yet were it no such disorder as this charitable man maketh it that would haue the bishops thrust out of their liuings yea out of the Church for committing it But suppose Deacons should weare an Albe how is the neglect of it ascribed to Bishops and not rather to the partie that knoweth not his duetie or of new curiositie that can abide none apparell but of the Geneuian fashion would this libeller were a yellow cote it would become him better then an Albe Article 28 The Deacon by part of his office ought to search for the poore sicke and impotent of the parish and intimate their estates to the Curate But now the office is accompted mere spirituall Answere He ought onelie to doe it where he is so appointed which clause this accuser meaning no good trueth cautelously left out That he should only attend the poore and
sicke cannot bee prooued eyther by scriptures or fathers In Geneua the Deaconship is turned into a vaine office of Proctorship for the poore managed by men of base trades Why then doth he accuse others that is guilty himselfe Article 29 The Deacon must reade the Gospell in the day of his ordination putting on a tunicle but this vesture is scarcely knowen at this day Answere The booke of ordeyning of ministers printed Anno 1559. and confirmed by parliament hath no such matter And therfore vnlesse hee can shewe his author for his tunicle let him weare the tunicle together with his foure elbowed iacket himselfe But admit some piece of apparell were omitted in deacons yet is the fault not great nor to bee ascribed to any but to those that commit the same Article 30 The bishops at the ordination of ministers do tell them the weight of their charges and what labour they ought to take yet most of them are neuer resident Answere If they labour not as they shoulde doe let them bee punished If they bee absent for lawfull causes and at times why are they more blamed then the skittish puritanes that notwithstanding their charge are like malecontent and mutinous persons still wandring vp and downe to places where they haue nought to doe rather to trouble the state then to edifie the Church and rather hinder others labours by spreading of false doctrine and nouelties then helpe by teaching faith and maners Article 31 The lawe woulde haue them giue themselues to their function yet many attend ciuill and worldly affaires Answere If ciuill and ecclesiasticall causes bee so repugnant as is pretended why doe ministers gouerne their families or colledges or what hath T. Cartw. to meddle with the charge of his hospitall a matter meere ciuill and wherein he hath done more good then in ecclesiasticall causes For he hath bestirred himselfe so that what by rewardes what by auailes of his hospitall and pinching those that are committed to his charge and what by buying and selling the man is growen fatte and rich Of his ministery wee see no fruit but contention and trouble Percase hee will say hee is no minister But why then doth hee meddle with the ministers office like to him are his followers men verie stirring and busie in all matters of state howsoeuer this man misliketh them therin Contrariwise for subiectes to execute the commaundementes of the prince and to see their ministerie also discharged is commendable and not onely allowable The lawes of God and the lande allowe it Wherefore then shoulde hee maliciously condemne that which hee cannot disprooue Article 32 Bishops only excommunicate and suspend yet by the booke of ordering ministers euery one is to administer the discipline of Christ And Christ hath giuen the keyes equally Answere The lawe is misreported and misinterpreted For the words are that ministers shoulde minister discipline as this Church hath receiued it and so they doe And by discipline is admonition publicke and priuate and preaching and executing the ordinaries sentence vnderstoode That euery minister by law shoulde excommunicate or suspend others equally cannot bee prooued the keyes were giuen to the Church yet euery one doth not vse them equally the priests of the lawe were all partakers of the priesthoode yet might not all doe all things All were not Iudges nor gouernours nor looked to all things But these fellowes would haue an Anabaptistical equallity brought in that such as haue no merite to mount higher may bring downe others lower make them equall to themselues Both the wordes and practise of the lawe make against the libeller besides all this it woulde bee infinitely inconuenient and absurde if such armes as the Church censures were put in euery cockebrayned fellowes handling and such odde fellowes as the puritanes are made gouernours of the Church equall with the best Article 33 The Bishops Chapplaynes and Doctors vse not priuate admonition in their Cures Answere Many things the libeller affirmeth and prooueth nothing So that it should seeme he taketh pleasure in talking and calumniating But suppose they did not folow the course of puritanes in priuate and parlour admonitions paraphrases is not the office of the minister publike not priuate must he as these puritanes do creepe into womens closets or must he put his feete vnder euery marchant mans table their shriue them such admonitions as the office of ministers and lawes require they do vse The course of puritanes in their priuate exercises and paraphrases they take neither to be commaunded by law nor to bee suffred in reason for the manifold abuses of it and much more credite were it for the puritanes if they had neuer begunne their table sermons nor secrete conference and catechizations of other mens wiues and daughters Article 34 The bishops admit not preachers to preach without licence and make vnpreaching ministers and ordeine ministers without Cure and preach out of Apocrypha against law Answere Neither doe they herein against lawe nor reason For albeit ministers haue by their ordination power to announce the worde by reading yet is it not fitte that euery one should expond it but such as haue learning that is knowen by long experience and must bee testified by writing And good it were that many that take vpon them to preach were turned backe to read For they marre and abuse many good texts of scripture fill the peoples eares with nouelties and want discretion to profit them either in faith or maners Secondly they make none vnpreaching ministers but giue euerie one licence to announce the worde by reading and priuate admonition albeit not by publique exposition Neyther if they shoulde make ministers such onely as can breake the worde aright and are answerable to Saint Paules rules should they finde many such among the conceited sort that preach not Gods word but their owne conceits Thirdly it is not vnfit nor against lawe that men learned should be made ministers though presently they haue no cures nor doth the booke of making ministers condemne it For albeit the word congregation bee vsed yet nameth it no speciall congregation Finally it is not vsuall for any to chuse textes out of the Apocryphall Scriptures yet if any do so the offence is not great seeing for maners they are to bee read and hauing confirmation of Canonicall scriptures are to be receiued That which he saith of bishops that they take away letters of orders vpon euery supposed misdemeanour is vntrue For neither doe they offer it nor may they doe it by lawe Article 35 Seldome doe bishops at the time of their consecration vse Coapes and neuer vse they pastorall staues yet both required by law Answere Neyther Coapes nor pastorall staues are by lawe enioyned to bee vsed The booke of ordering ministers printed Anno 1559. shall witnesse with mee that I say trueth yet in mine opinion it were not amisse to vse pastorall staues if for none other cause yet to beate such
barking curres as this which without reason baull at lawes and antiquitie and if they had might would bite also Article 36 There be many Churches in England that haue scarce had 12. sermons in 12. yeeres Answere The cause why in some places there are so fewe sermons preached is for that the liuing is appropried and that such as haue it haue no care of mens soules let the articulator therefore article against them and not impute their faultes to the cleargie that cannot doe withall if among the cleargie hee knoweth any that doe not their duetie or that preach not their sermons why doth he not name them that order may be taken that sermons may be had according to lawe If he can name none why doth he mention many And if there be any default herein why doth hee deface the state and not rather blame those greedie persons that by taking away the liuings of Churches are cause of this disorder Wherefore to answere him let him this vnderstand that there are mo learned Preachers and Sermons preached in England proportion for proportion then eyther in Fraunce or Scotland howsoeuer the same seeme to him to be refourmed Article 37 Erasmus paraphrasis should be had in all Churches Answere Accuse them that haue it not There is none more guilty then the brother-hoode of Puritans that condemne all good learning and care for none other bookes then the Geneua Bible Caluins institutions and Bezaes Comments excepting alwayes Caluins Commentaries on Iob and Martyrs common places in English Nor haue other cause to like of Erasmus paraphrasis but that now all their exercises bee nothing but light and fantasticall paraphrases except alwayes some heauie and malicious inuectiues Article 38 Ecclesiasticall persons shoulde not play at unlawfull games as Cardes Dice c. but they offende more then any other that pretend conformitie Answere I tolde you that this Reuellors purpose was rather to rayle then amend any matter Why doth he not name these gamesters and vnlawfull games and proue that such games as are vsed are vnlawfull nay when he hath proued what hee can I doe thinke that honest recreations that some ministers vse are more commendable then the sabothes exercises of most puritans Article 39 Non residents should distribute the 40. part of their liuing to the poore of the parish which they doe not Likewise they should mayntayne schollers Answere I knowe none more hard-hearted then the Puritans nor more bountifull then the Clergie to the poore As for Pettifoggers and Scribes they do skinne the poore and helpe them not Nothing therefore could bee more vnseasonable then this accusation For albeit the Ministerie by the spoyles of Patrons and griedie Gulles and wicked vexations of Puritans are almost now the poorest of the parish yet are they not sparing to giue euery man according to his facultie And as for some bishops it shal be prooued that they are as ready to maintayne and preferre learned schollers as the Puritans to impouerish them and spoyle them the rest let them answere for themselues Blush therefore you sacrilegious Church-robbing Puritans the ruinors of all churches and shame to talke of liberalitie and maynetenance of schollers For by your barking and by your spoyles and by your crying out against the reward of learning and by that pouertie and contempt you haue brought the ministerie into you haue almost ouerthrowen the ministery in Scotland religion in France would ouerthrow both in England And what should we els looke for at their hands seeing in racking of Rents exteremitie of dealing vsurie and vnlawfull practises of gaine and Turkish and inhumane crueltie diuers of these zelatours of puritanisme passe both Turkes and Heathen Article 40 The Queenes Iniunctions are not read quarterly as they should be Answere They are read as oft as neede is and if any negligence bee committed it is by the Puritans that bring all lawes into contempt sure they are contemned more by them then any for they openly impugne them not onely neglect them But admit they should be read very often yet would not the Puritans heare them nor obey them For they neyther respect her Maiestie nor her lawes but in despite of both seeke to establish a new gouernment and newe Iniunctions for which if they doe not shortly reforme themselues there will bee such penance inioyned them that they will better remember Iniunctions all their life long Article 41 Holy-dayes should bee spent in godly exercises Bishops bestowe them prophanely in playing at Bowles hearing Comedies and Tragedies Answere Very vnlikely it is that such fellowes as this should teach Bishops how to bestowe their time seeing there is none bestoweth these dayes worse then the hypocriticall secte of Puritans that in slaundering factious declayming against lawes and gouernours in chambring and chambring exercises yea and in worse matters doe bestowe their time in corners doing things which you may conceiue I may not vtter and therefore these are prophane and wicked hypocrites As for honest exercises why may they not be vsed vpon holy dayes so it be not in times of seruing God Wherefore vnlesse the Libeller can shew both better law and reason against bowles and other exercises well vsed and shewe cause why Tragedies may not be heard his accusation will rather seeme to proceede from malice then other cause and hee will bee taken for a prophane sencelesse hypocrite that is offended with bowling and exercises of learning and yet thinketh it lawfull to make an occupation of lying slaundering and defacing of good men and alloweth the secrete and parlour conferences of his fellowe Puritans and many other bad practises whereof some are comicall others tragicall and most of their discipline fabulous or a comicall fable Article 42 The Bishops be not without superstitious paintings in their chambers and diuers Churches haue them not abolished Article 22 To condemne the historicall and ciuill vse of painting is vnciuill and sauoureth of Turcisme Other vses of painting bishops haue none neyther is there now any superstitious vse of payntings in church wyndowes but those that are if they displease the Libeller he may haue downe at pleasure when hee will set newe glasse in their place The paintings that doe more harme are in apparell ruffes yea womens faces and their furniture wherein I would the Puritans did not commit both Idolatrie and other follie Wherefore seeing he is in the way as hee pretendeth of Reformation let these abuses of pricking pride painting be remoued also let him take heede that superstitiously he doe not make an idole of his discipline that both out of church and common wealth is to be abolished Article 43 The wiues of Ministers and Deacons should bee allowed by the Ordinary and two Iustices of peace But many forward Chapleyns regarde not this Answere In disdaine this scorneful wretch calleth learned Ministers Chapleins sparing neyther his aduersaries nor friends the Puritans that are for the most part trencher Chapleins nor others But what such lewde
Schooles what they can yea sparing neyther friende nor other men of wonderfull large conscience Article 52 Many are absent from their cures without lawfull cause Answere Shewe that and thou mayest haue remedie against them yet take heede thou dealest not too curiously in this matter for feare thou offendest thy deare brethren of the fraternitie of deformation for none doe more willingly discontinue from their charge nor haue lesse or more vnsufficient cause Others haue lawfull businesse these to alter Lawes to stirre the people and mayntayne faction wander about and neyther regarde flocke nor Lawe Article 53 Ecclesiasticall persons doe not weare in iourneying clokes with sleeues Answere The reason of this is the contempt of Puritans and scorne offered by them to those that obey lawes for while they breake lawes themselues and scorne obedience in others these poynts haue bene slackely obserued of diuers yet is not the matter capitall for when ministers go most vndecently yet do they not come neere the flatcapped short cloked russet clothed and lether breeched broode of Puritans Article 54 The housholde seruants of Bishops bee not of so good life as they should bee Answere No more is this Libeller but in what house can you finde them more orderly nay can you finde them in any Puritans house so orderly this I dare auowe that the lewdest man they keepe is more honest and discreete then this Libeller or his compagnions and hath more gouernment of his tongue and actions Article 55 Bishops make blinde Porters and outworne seruitors Ministers Answere They that did it are therefore greatly too blame and therefore spare them not but let their names bee knowen more blinde and absurde fellowes then the Disciplinarian sort I knowe none they are also both outworne and forlorne for all the stuffe they had deuised in seruice of the consistorie is now past and spent and T. C. liueth now all by speculatiō except always some litle gaine he hath by interest Article 56 Bishops should not as they doe graunt Presentations and Aduowsons of liuings before they be voyde Answere The man towardes his ende speaketh ouer Hee sayth Bishops graunt Presentations yet was it neuer heard that a bishop as ordinary did graunt a presentation for that is the office of the patron to the bishop not the bishop to the clearke neyther doe bishops graunt aduousons of Churches for they are nought in law if they graunt them I would to God that all men did so'well bestowe their liuings as some bishops doe and I thinke that the worst bishop doth bestow them better then many of the best lay patrons if they did their dutie herein there would not bee such buying and selling as there is and so many learned men destitute of liuing it is not the bishops but the wicked generation of sacrilegious Churchrobbers that sell aduowsons yea and woulde sell both Church and soyle if they might and next to these such petit incornifistibulat pettifoggers and scriuanoes as the chiefe authors of this libel that must haue bribes vnder hand to helpe to procure the patrons fauour Article 57 The booke of Martyrs shoulde bee in Cathedrall Churches and in Deanes and in prehendaries houses but is not Answere How knowe you that it is not were you euer there if you were it shoulde seeme you came thither for a spie most vnworthie to treade in their houses or Cathedrall Churches which you woulde so willingly spoyle but were you there or not first it is false that by lawe the booke of Martyrs shoulde bee in such houses for the Canons are not law next that they are not there lastly that they shoulde bee in Churches Article 58 Chancellors Commissaries and Officials should be learned in the ecclesiasticall lawe but are vtterly ignorant Answere I knowe none but may put both thee and thy consorts to schoole howsoeuer you take your selues to bee learned but if any vnlearned Officiall come in place without merite I will giue thee leaue to sease vpon him and take him out of his place to bee thy companion two fellowes vtterly ignorant together Article 59 Vnpreaching Prelates shoulde teach children to write c. but yet the parishioners are burthened to finde schoolemasters for these matters Answere The office of inferiour curates which hee aymeth at God wot is a simple prelacie such prelacie God send to this libeller and his companions and yet woulde it bee too good for him being neither so honest nor learned as most of them the fault he noteth in them is that they teach not children yet are none bound to teach without wages neyther can hee charge any for not teaching that hath competent wages allowed what wise man then was he to alledge that for law wherein is neyther law nor trueth Article 60 The election of Church wardens by the ministers and people and the admonitions which they should vse to offenders are omitted and accounted seditious and schismaticall Answere All this is false for the election continueth I doubt not But they do admonish vnruly persons I knowe none that accounteth it seditious or schismatical but if you suppose to proue your populer election of bishops ministers your supposed aldermen their office by the election of church-wardens you are wide as farre east and west the church-wardens deale with small matters these iniambe vpon the prince and treade downe his authoritie those are vnder the minister these controll both ministers and princes and therefore to elect such would bee seditious and schismaticall of which he that sheweth himselfe a patron is both a schismaticall and seditious person Article 61 The bishops keepe non residents about them though by lawe confessed to be odious and spoken against in parliament Answere Many things haue bene spoken of against in parliament which haue bene there reiected as ridiculous among other things the new puritane communion booke consistoriall discipline as for nonresidence there is no reason it should be spoken against seeing no man defendeth it and lawes alreadie made condemne it for nonresidence is simplie condemned and onely for certaine causes allowed for the priestes of the law had their turnes and the bishops of old time had their times of absence and the disciplinarians dispense also with long absence of their ministers why shoulde they then bee so rigorous to other being so liberall to themselues or why doe they accuse bishops for mayntayning nonresidence that maintaine it not liking it in themselues that offende in it Article 62 No man shoulde haue aboue two benefices at once not distant aboue 26. miles yet many haue 3 or 4 scattered an hundred miles one from another Answere First that is false in the Queenes chapplaines for they may haue more then two if it please her Maiestie to bestow them vpon them neyther doe I require any greater argument of the libellers disloyaltie towarde her her Maiestie then this that he is still pinching at her prerogatiue secondly it is not to bee prooued that others
haue more benefices then two with cure if they haue all but those they can keepe doe fall voyde lastly all this which hee draweth out of the Canons is to no purpose for they haue no strength of lawe Article 63 The bishops say that excommunication is a ciuill discommuning and company with excommunicate persons and if our Prelates were examined then were they excommunicate and worse then publicanes and heathen Answere Marke I pray you the intemperate furie of this base companion the honourable Prelates of this land reuerend for their learning yeeres grauitie place this crablouse swaine and paltrie parasite scornefully calleth iolly prelates and in changing scorne into rayling calleth them excommunicate persons yea worse then publicanes and heathen into such a streine of madnes is he entred looke Allen Stapleton other traytors discourses yet shall you find no such scornefull nor spitefull speaches and wherefore doth hee so reuile them forsooth because he supposeth they offend against canons yet neyther doth he prooue any fault nor can he shew that those canons are lawe nor can hee excuse his consorts that notoriously contemne all excommunications nor finally can hee disproue the common distinction of excommunication that one sort is ecclesiasticall the other ciuill and therefore as a furious for rayling without learning or wit against men of so high place hee is rather to bee corrected in Bedlem then refuted with long discourse I doubt not but the consistorie it selfe will bee ashamed of such kinde of dealing and all other reasonable men condemne it why the disciplinarians should talke of excommunication there is no reason forthey commit the same into prophane mens hands and are therein worse then heathen that neuer committed such holy things into so base mens hands This is the summe of all those articles that he hath gathered against the ecclesiasticall state a playne iustification of all their doings for if he could haue said more against them he would not haue spared and charging them with matters eyther tryfling or else vtterly vntrue declareth them to bee innocent himselfe to bee malicious and furious for the summe of all is nothing but a packe of vnruly wordes as Chapplaines Priestes iolly Prelates hangbyes excommunicate persons worse then heathen and publicanes licentious preachers extortioners bribers and such like I could requite him with better and as bitter tearmes but to answere his articles I will onely returne him but these few articles following A BRIEFE COLLECTION OF DIVERS haereticall and strange opinions lewde practises and fond fancies and deuices which certaine factious and light headed persons haue lately coloured and aduanced with glorious titles of discipline and reformation set downe in forme of Articles TH. Cartw. doth call the rules of his new discipline the 1 In the Epistbefore Fenners new diuinitie Axiomes or irrefragable principles of heauenly Canaan whereby he would in sinuate that they are without doubt to be receiued and yet can he not shewe that euer the eldership or the strange gouernement thereof was practised in Canaan vnlesse it were of the Cananites and enemies of Gods Church to the rooting out of Gods people and ouerthrow of the Ministerie 2 The disciplinarians holde that the gouernement of the Eldership is Christes kingdome and that they that withstand the same are enemies to Christ to religion and to Christes kingome and apply these wordes of the Gospel 2 Th. Cartw. in a certeine table Those mine enemies that would not haue me to reigne ouer them bring them and slay them before me Aplaine euidence that if with entreatie they cannot they meane by warres and bloodshed to set vp their kingdome and yet William Hacket their first king was crowned in Cheapeside with an hempen coronet or diademe and his garde and followers dipersed 3 They teach That the Church is onely to be gouerned by Christes lawes And yet are they not able to bring forth one worde for proofe of their consistorie or the partes of it or the office of euery seueral part of it or any part of their gouernment and seeme to rest onely vpon mens bare conceites and fancies contrarie both to scriptures equitie and reason 4 They professe great loyaltie in termes yet doubt not to say that the simplest Consistorie they haue may giue the prince to Satan 5 They take from the magistrate power to make ecclesiasticall lawes for the gouernment of the Church and yet at Geneua they haue no ecclesiasticall lawes but made by the magistrates 6 That authoritie which statutes giue to princes In calling and assembling of Synodes and appointing ecclesiasticall commissioners to heare and determine Ecclesiasticall matters and appointing delegates to represse wrongs offered in Ecclesiasticall courtes they take away and deny the supremacie of the prince very presumptuously 7 They ouerthrowe her Maiesties reuennues and dissolue the office of first fruites and tenthes 8 They deny her all authoritie to nominate Bishops or other officers of the Church and vtterly take away her right of patronage in all ecclesiasticall liuings 9 They dissolue all ecclesiasticall lawes and all those statutes that concerne Bishops or other Ministers or other ecclesiastical liuings person or cause 10 They deny that her Maiestie may pardon and graunt life to any offender Fenneri Theologia whome Moses lawe commandeth to be put to death and binde her to the obseruance of Moses iudiciall lawes 11 They seeke the ruine and ouerthrowe of the whole ecclesiasticall estate by abasing the Ministers of the Church beneath all others and laying infinite burthens vpon them and taking away all rewardes of learning a point which you my masters of the vniuersitie are to looke vnto 12 By ouerthrowing of the Ecclesiasticall state they doe depriue her Maiestie of many thowsands of able and most willing men to doe her seruice and make way to inward faction and forreine inuasion and all manner of heresies and disorders 13 They teach Th Cartw. reply that all magistrates are to licke the dust of the feete of the Eldership 14 They goe about to bring in forreine lawes and forreine and vncouth gouernors 15 They teach that in euery common wealth well gouerned Fenners holy diuinitie there ought some magistrates to be appointed to depose and ouerrule princes if they doe not their dueties like the Spartain Ephori 16 They teach that the prince may not determine any weightie matter Ibidem without the assemblie of the estates 17 They depraue the ecclesiasticall gouernement Martin and religion of this Church and call it antichristian and diuelish 18 They traduce the publike iustice of this land Martin and Epist before reformat no enemie and rayle against the parliament the lordes the Iudges the lawes and whatsoeuer misliketh them 19 They haue confederated themselues together That is euident by theit subscriptions for the ouer throwing of the ecclesiasticall lawes and state and haue subscribed certeine articles for the establishment of new lawes and gouernement 20 Cartwright and
Egerton seeme to haue had intelligence with Copinger one of Hackets prophets as for Wigginton it is apparant that he was a chiefe slirrer in that action 21 Being cōuented for diuers misdemeanors they refuse the ordinarie trials of lawe 22 In the Vniuersities by bringing in the studie of Ramus writinges a man ignorant in Logicke and artes and fantasticall in all actions they haue almost ouerthrowen all good learning by studying of naked comments all sound diuinitie 23 In liuing lewdly themselues Rescij in ministromach Sanderus de schismate Rosseus and by infamous libels disgracing the Ministerie they haue giuen aduantage to the enemie and brought religion into contempt 24 They are but made instruments by some persons to worke the spoile of the Church whereof they are like to haue small part 25 In all places where this discipline is setled they haue ouerthrowen the authoritie of the Magistrate the state of the Church and vniuersities 26 Nay by diuers strange positions they goe about to bring in diuers heresies 27 They haue in their lewde 1 In their new Communion booke paraphrase vpon the Creede taken out two Articles out of the Creede viz. that of Christes buriall and of his descending into hell and haue added a new Article of their discipline 28 They affirme that hatred as it is an attribute in God 2 Fenner Theolog lib. 1. is the essence of God and teach very badly of the essence and persons 29 Penrie holdeth that Christ Iesus is the worde preached 30 They doe generally beleeue that the worde read is but a dead letter and no ordinarie meanes to engender faith which is the opinion of the 3 Bozius in libr. de signis ecclesiae papistes 31 Martin doeth scoffe at the holy virgine Saint Mary and Saint Peter and calleth them Sir Peter and Sir Mary in scorne and maketh a scoffe both at gouernement and religion 32 In leauing the studie of fathers and ancient writers and schoole learning all the puritans are become verbal diuines without soundmatter 33 To prooue their deuises they haue offered great violence to the holy scriptures expounding them contrary both to ancient fathers and histories and common reason as namely their common places alledged out of the 18. of Matthew 1. Timothie 5. Romains 12.1 Corinthians 12. Ephesians 4. vpon the false interpretation of nine or ten places all their deuises doe stand 34 Themselues doe not agree either in the exposition of these places or in their rules concerning the presbyterie 35 Some interprete the wordes If thy brother offend against thee of priuate offences others of publike offences others of both 36 The Elders that are mentioned in the 14 of the Actes some expound Ministers of the word others churchaldermen 37 The wordes Dic Ecclesiae some expound of the Consistorie others of the Synode others of the conferences 38 Themselues confesse that they are not resolued in many pointes I haue set downe otherwhere infinite matters which they can neuer resolue 39 Themselues doe many wayes contrary to their discipline they condemne the reading of Apocrypha in the Church yet doe they allowe verball sermons wherein often times fall out strange doctrines and many vncharitable discourses which no man is so sencelesse I thinke as to preferre before the Apocryphall scriptures that are read in the Church They interprete Caluins Catechisme and other such like bookes which they cannot shewe to be canonicall 40 They teach that he that beareth not the Church is to be accounted a heathen and publican yet doe they not so accept him when the Synode iudgeth contrarie to the Consistorie 41 They say that euery Church hath equall right yet the parishes about Geneua haue no Consistories nor doctors nor execution of discipline but depend vpon them of the citie of Geneua 42 They say no man may enter the ministerie without lawfull calling yet haue Th. C. and Wat. Tr. and diuers of this sort here taken vpon them the ministerie without lawfull calling and intruded into others charges to the great disturbance of Gods Church 43 In Bishops and other ministers of this Church they condemne the mingling of matters ciuill and ecclesiasticall and account the same vnlawful yet doe none meddle with matters of state more then this faction yea diuers of them doe deale in base trades 44 Here they condemne ciuil honours in ecclesiastical persons yet is Beza one of the chiefe men both for reuenues and honor in the kingdome of Geneua and our puritanes receiue his letters like Apolloes Oracles 45 At Geneua and in all this newe gouernement lay men intrude into church gouernment and are made aldermen and Deacons 46 They condemne the authoritie of Bishops here yet doe they giue their consistories twise so large authoritie for here Bishops can doe nothing but according to lawe there as oft as it shall please the Consistorie without lawe or colour they may turne out all their Ministers and pastors to seeke pasture other where 47 Here they teach that Doctors and pastors are distinct officers yet at Geneua Beza is both pastor and doctor and others haue susteined both offices 48 All of them doe holde Fruitefull sermon that widowes and deacons are members of Christes bodie as they sticke not to auowe and yet in no churches haue they widowes nor ecclesiasticall deacons but onely certeine counterfet almesgatherers that are good for nothing but to stand with a boxe at the Church doore wherein the liuing and hope of many poore pastors in diuers places consisteth 49 In the disciplinarian kingdome the Ministers commonly liue in extreme contempt and pouertie so that fewe of worth take on them the calling which if order be not taken will be the ruine of religion 50 By the ordinances of Geneua onely the Ministers life in their visitations is looked vnto and no article set downe for enquirie of others conuersation so that it appeareth that this discipline is nothing but a deuise for the abasing and ouerthrowe and treading under feete of the Ministerie of the Gospell 51 There is no meanes giuen to the ministers to mainteine themselues much lesse their wiues and children awake therefore you my masters of the Church your enemies seeke your ruine 52 All matters wherein is breach of charitie the Consistories do take vpon them to order and to moderate rigorous dealing in lawe this toucheth your freehold my masters that studie the cōmon lawes 53 They take on them to moderate likewise all rigorous dealing in priuate contractes which concerneth all marchants and men of trade verie neerely 54 They take vpon them to apoint what rewardes shall be giuen to learning and how long they shall enioy them and yet you my masters of the Vniuersitie doe fauour these conceites which are the ruine of your selues and your succession 55 They giue the managing of Church goods into the hands of men of occupation and make the Ministers to depend on their deuotion a matter not to encourage but to discourage
frameth an articulat infamous libell A second fault it is that such leude and shamefull practises are notwithstanding sayd to be drawen by a fauourer of reformation as if there were no difference betwixt slandering and reforming A third fault hee committeth in affirming these questions to be annexed by the Printer But the greatest fault is that such shamefull libels are commonly solde and the authors passed ouer without punishment Quaere first whether Iustice Wray did not affirme Putcase Quaest 1. that men should incurre no penaltie for opinions which they helde doubtingly and whether a man may not without breach of lawe make Quaerees and doubtes whether I may not be a Putcase I haue enquired of those Answere that were present at the time when these wordes are pretended to bee spoken and they doe assure me that hee neuer vttered any such words which I haue no reason to doubt of for it is not probable that so reuerend and learned a Iudge shoulde mayntaine or deliuer so strange an assertion for in matters fundamentall of faith to doubt is haeresie as all diuines doe agree And in externall matters the Apostle saith that whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne And who woulde not detest him that would make a doubt whether these disciplinarians be impious and flagitious fellowes that affirme it to be lawfull to make doubts and questions in those cases The very Paganes were farre more reasonable then this impious Putcase For the Athenians banished 1 Cie de natur Deor. Protagoras for doubting whether there were a God or no. As for matters of state I doubt not but whosoeuer shall doubt and make a question and not categorically affirme that her Maiestie hath right to her crowne and is supreme Gouernour within her dominions in all causes and ouer all persons is a ranke traytor Let therefore Pierce Putcase looke to it a little better and cleare himselfe of doubting and questioning least hee bee taken for a traytor out of doubt To come to the matter in question it is also euident that whosoeuer doth make questions to the diffamation eyther of the gouernment or gouernours or of priuate persons liuing in obedience of lawes he is to be punished as a libeller And therfore I would wish the man to shut vp himselfe in a case to take heed that he be not taken abroad For he wil be in a very bad case for his libelling and putting of cases if euer his reuelling against her Maiestie her ecclesiasticall lawes her officers and many other good men shal come in scanning Quaere Putcase Quaest 2. whether the forme of prayers administratiō of sacramēts attyre of ministers other ceremonies in England do more agree to the Apostolicall and primitiue order or to the vse of the Romish church whether popish orders be more seemely thē the Apostolike The questioner supposeth that I will answere that Answere which maketh for his purpose not doubting but to cut vs downe with the next blow But in vaine doth he feed himself with his owne conceit For I answere and will shewe that our liturgie and ceremonies agree neerer to the liturgie and ceremonies of the primitiue Church then to the popish orders And that is apparent first in quality for that wee haue purged out all idolatrie superstition false doctrine in which the papists do most differ from the ancient Church Secondly in forme For as the Iewes had readings of the law certaine hymnes and prayers interposed so no doubt the Apostles kept the reading of scriptures with prayers interposed which forme we keepe the papists keepe not The papists reade no scriptures and haue other formes of prayers Thirdly in the language for as in anciēt time so now we vse our mother tōgue Nay further we come neerer in our formes to the primitiue church then the consistorial orders For they haue no set reading of scrptures nor forme of liturgie as they had in the times of the first fathers and are so vnlike them that they haue abolished al the orders of the ancient Church They haue no set praiers but leaue al to the discretion of their speaker as they cal him who cōceiueth prayers either so confused that they are not vnderstood or so vncharitable that a true Christian may not say Amen Contrariwise ancient counsels decreed that no praiers should bee said in the church but such as first should by cōmon authority be allowed And albeit apparel is a matter indifferent yet in publike liturgie wee come neerer to the Apostolike Church whereas the puritanes haue abolished al Apostolike orders as they haue abolished al Apostolike gouernement To the last part of the question whether popish ceremonies bee more decent then Apostolicall I answere that where they are contrarie there the Apostolike is more decent But I denie that eyther the newe consistoriall gouernement or the ceremonies by the same appointed are Apostolicall or that our ceremonies are papisticall Nay I say that their newe orders are not Apostolicall but fantasticall and that our gouernement is Apostolicall neyther shall they euer be able to prooue the contrary Quaere Putcase Quaest 3. whether our rites and ceremonies doe not giue offence to the papists and whether indifferent things causing offence ought not by Pauls doctrine to be remooued out of the Church Whether they giue offence to the papistes or no Answere wee are not to respect nor to omit ancient and Apostolike orders to please them To good men the vse of our ceremonies cannot giue iust offence Nay rather the confusion of the newe gouernment and absurditie in the newe liturgie giueth offence for it confirmeth the papists in their opinion and offendeth all that are comming forward to ioyne with vs. For they see not how that can be the Church that refuseth all ancient gouernement and ceremonies and is nothing but a bundell of nouelties And therefore in vaine is the latter part of the question propounded whether matters that giue offence be by S. Pauls doctrine to be remooued for wee denie that our ceremonies doe giue offence Quaere Putcase Quaest 4. whether the square cappe surplesse c. condemned in generall by the Queenes Iniunctions bishops articles and doctrine of England and other Churches misliked by Bullinger Alasco Bucer Pilkington Bale and other learned men be decent and comely for a preacher and being vncomely whether they should not be abolished out of the Church First it is denied Answere that the attyre of ministers in England now is condemned by the Queenes iniunctions or bishops articles or doctrine of England A shamelesse man was he that affirmed it so impudently and so to bee credited accordingly for the contrary is euident both by doctrine of the Church and law of the realme And neuer shall this bold bayardlike Putcase prooue them either to be monumentes of poperie or defiled with idolatrie let him begin when he wil. What other Churches mislike in themselues we do not
by Fitzherbert For otherwise that writte should be contrarie to infinite other lawes Vpon this error what maruell is it if Crompton a man of no iudgement hath bene deceaued seeing Fitzherbert hath also mistaken such matters Neither is it maruell that lawyers speaking for their clyents doe speake otherwise then lawe For neuer before this time was it heard that the pleading of lawyers shoulde be accounted to be lawe further then they bring lawe and reason out of lawe To make a somme therefore of these matters Master Cooke who now for his manifolde good partes is made her maiesties Solicitor shall yeelde no thankes to this Libeller for bringing his name in question to bee a fauourer of malcontentes and an enemie to the Ecclesiasticall state Neither shall any credite you hereafter for this your notorious belying the Iudges For it is well knowen that the Iudges haue resolutely both condemned the disloyall practises of this sorte of men and also allowed the proceedings of the Ecclesiasticall courtes Nor shall any allowe your malice that with false reportes goe about to enkindle a dislyking among Iudges And therefore vnlesse you set downe the state of the controuersie better and reason more sufficiently both your selfe as an ignorant Put-case and your cause as repugnant to lawe will be condemned Quaere Putcase Quaest 26. if the high Commissioners for Ecclesiasticall causes may cite men Ex officio to accuse themselues in matters neither Testamentarie nor Matrimoniall and may committe the Queenes subiectes to prison especially for refusing to take the othe And whether they ought not to take bayle and whether the writte De homine replegiando doeth not lye in that case Item what satisfaction Doctor Coosin Doctor Stanhoppe and Doctor Bancrofte will make to those that are so wrongfully imprisoned Item whether for that matter they may keepe men in prison without calling them to answere and finally whether they deserue not like punishment therefore themselues Here is great noyse Answere little wooll many wordes little witte much malice little or no reason For the high Commissioners they bee many of them men of great honor and such as will doe no wrong to any nor will proceede without sufficient warrant If they haue passed the limites of their Commission why is not remedie of lawe sought For satisfaction to these doughtie demaundes I aunswere First that no man is called to accuse himselfe but to aunswere accusations obiected by others Secondly that they haue power to call offenders before them and to examine them and that their iurisdiction were vaine if they might not punish the contumacious Thirdly that if such as are committed to prison for contempt might be bayled there were then no meanes to punish a contempt and that offenders put in prison for contempt are not baylable Fourthly that the writte De homine replegiando is not in this case grauntable as all lawyers can tell him Fiftly that they may deale in many causes besides Matrimoniall and Testamentarie Sixtly that the learned men there mentioned haue great wrong to bee thus contumeliously abused by this libeller they hauing done wrong to no man Seuenthly that men committed for disobedience are not to bee released but vpon their conformitie And finally that such libellers as take vpon them to raile at Iudges and to oppugne lawful proceedings are to haue their mouthes muzzeled vp and their malice repressed Quaere Whether any Ecclesiasticall Iudge hath conuented Putcase Quest 27. examined and committed any for matters felonious touching the Queenes crowne and dignitie And whether these practises doe not instanter instantius and instantissimè craue the Praemunire That his companions are in case of Praemunire Answere it is out of question for that they haue contrarie to the prerogatiue of the crowne brought in forreine lawes and forreine iurisdiction of more then papall Elders and made diuers Ecclesiasticall constitutions contrarie to the lawes of the realme Nay it were to be wished that they had onely offended against the statute of Prouisors But their deniall of the supremacie is a further point What then doeth that craue Let him speake in his Proctors stile It craueth consideration and the perturbers of the state craue a wiser Proctor As for Ecclesiasticall Iudges it is well knowen that they doe not deale in matters of felonie their actes are cleare if any man doubt they will refolue him Quaere Putcase Quest 28. whether any may bee imprisoned without warrant of law c. Can this libeller shew any warrant Answere he hath to accuse men vniustly If not why doeth he proceede in accusing and is so slowe in prouing If any be imprisoned vnlawfully the lawe is open Neither needeth he to tell vs of Sir Iohn Markeham in this case For that which Sir Iohn Markeham saith we acknowledge for it maketh nothing for the libellers cause Quaere Putcase Quest 29. whether it be not lesse danger to blaspheme the name of God then to speake against a Lord Bishop And whether moe Ministers haue not bene depriued within this seuen yeeres for ceremonies of men then for dronkennesse whoredome c. If it were so dangerous to speake against bishops Answere as this fellow pretendeth they would not be so reuiled nor reuelled at by such reuellers as this The cōparison which he maketh is odious Moe be punished for abusing the Consistorie then for abusing the name of God more doe these consistorials striue about the authoritie of their seate then about Gods honor But what then because some of them offend will they haue all Consistories abolished And therefore let him cease to talke of Bishops and looke bakeward home to the Consistorie that it be well swept and garnished To the second I answere that none are depriued for ceremonies but such as be rebellious against lawes and with no admonitions will be reformed which contumacie is a most odious crime and further I say that the offences which come to the cognition of ecclesiasticall Iudges are as strictlie there dealt withall as in any other of her Maiesties courtes Quaere Putcase Quest 30. why the Ministers may not refuse to weare a Surplesse as a Bishop to vse a Pastorall staffe Because the one is commaunded by Lawe Answere the other is not The Rubrike whereby they would proue the Pastorall staffe concerneth onely orders and ornaments to bee vsed in Sacraments and seruice of the Church and none other matters but suppose both were commaunded yet is it no plea for offenders to say because Iudges offende in some things that they may offende in others which is the course of these men Belike these are the times wherein offenders cal Iudges to answere and felons giue sentence against their superiours Quaere whether seekers of reformation suffer for religion Putcase Quest 31. and conscience in matters of discipline seeing their life is offered them by bishops if they will recant their opinion And whether the Popishbishops persecuted any that differed
from them in externall forme and ceremonies As Papists doe make treason religion so it may bee Answere that these schismatikes for their misdemeanours woulde bee accounted religious Otherwise it is euident that neither Papists nor Puritanes suffer for religion in England And therefore euil doeth it seeme that they seeke reformation or deserue to be called seekers of reformation and wel doth it appeare that they haue a bad religion and conscience that colour their lewdnesse with religion and lye without conscience As for persecution it is a terme ill applied to the proceedings of our Bishops and lewdly are they compared with traiterous papists against whom they stand in cōtinuall warfare For neither doe they conuent any but for transgressing the lawes nor do they impose punishments but vpon the rebellious those very easie punishmēts which in time of popery were death euen for denial of the least ceremony which this Putcase not vnderstanding he sheweth himself to babble of matters that he vnderstandeth not That bishops did offer life to Vdal for I knowe none but him and Hacket and a traytor in Suffolke condemned about these matters it is absurd to affirme For not they but others condemned him Neither is it in their power to graunt life nor in their wisedome to offer that which they cannot graunt And if they should bee so remisse as to bee meanes to her Maiestie for them yet would it argue their elemencie in going about to procure their liues that seeke the bishops ouerthrowe nay that most factiously goe about to ouerthrowe the Church the state and the rewards of learned men Quaere Putcase Quaest 33. whether he that publisheth bookes with long premeditation doth publish the same with a malicious intent True Answere if they be malicious bookes such as this libel is and such as the Demonstration of discipline and Martins ribauldrie was Neither is the case alike of a Sergeant arguing against the trueth in his Clients cause and of these that with out fee argue against both trueth and state For it is well knowen hee doth it for his fee and taketh heede howe hee offendeth against lawe but these leauing the case doe argue or rather rayle against the person yea against lawe and honestie Quaere Putcase Quaest 33. whether ecclesiasticall Iudges doe not giue sentence contrary to the common lawes and statutes of the realme and whether prohibitions doe not lye in such cases No doubt Answere there lyeth a prohibition if they proceed contrary to law But men learned will take heed they do not and especially seeing they haue such Canarian birdes as this looking vpon their doings and watching for the spoyle But let them take heede for in warres the spoyler is often spoyled and those that digge pits for the innocent fall into them themselues Quaere Putcase Quaest 34. whether hishops are not in praemunire or at least desere to be imprisoned and fined for practising popish and ciuill lawes in their courts seeing all forreine authoritie is banished and those canons and constitutions prouinciall and synodall onely authorized that haue bene made in England Litle doth this dolt knowe Answere what the praemunire meaneth If he did he would not so often flourish with the sword and doe no hurt Those incurre the praemunire which drawe the Queenes Subiects into forreine courtes out of the Queenes courts seeke to defeate iudgements giuen in the Queenes courts Likewise he is ignorant what lawes are practised in the ecclesiasticall courts For there are no lawes practised there but the Queenes lawes viz. such canons as were practised in England before the making of the Act. 25. Hen. 8. ca. 19 and not as this fondling saith such canons as were made in England Good it were therefore that some of his company would eyther admonish him or premonish him hereafter to leaue babbling of matters which hee knoweth not For it is either plaine impudencie or lunacie so to wrangle Quaere whether the bishops or the consistorie Putcase Quaest 35. encroch more vpon the ciuill magistrate That is a matter most easily answered For the bishops Answere albeit they deale in testamentarie causes tithes mariages and haue Baronies and sometimes deale as Iustices of peace yet all this authoritie they haue vnder the prince and from him they deriue it Contrariwise the consistorie draweth no authoritie from the prince but contendeth with the prince about supreme authoritie It giueth lawe to the prince it doth chastise and iudge the prince vnder colour of the breach of Gods lawe it doth encroch vpon all causes and controlleth all that are subiects to Gods lawe whereof the same doth take it selfe to be iudge It chooseth and deposeth all officers of the Church nay it deposeth princes if the fautors of it say true These therefore bee the fellowes that encroch nay that treade downe princes and as Th. Cartwright sayeth make princes to licke the dust of their feete As for that which this Putcase alledgeth that the Archbishop giueth the prince dispensations vnder his hand and seale it is a fable Let him shewe any of these licences so graunted But sayeth hee the lawe saith hee may well then let him quarrell with the lawe and not with the Archbishop who challengeth nothing as these doe but by the princes grant Besides that lawe was made to exclude all forreyne iurisdiction which these men woulde gladly bring in That which the libeller sayth of excommunication for mony is a leud calumniation long since answered Forwel it is knowen that no man is excommunicated for money but for disobedience to the Iudges decree and sentence And as those that will not yeelde to the ciuill Iudges sentence euen in the smallest matters are compelled by imprisoment so those that refuse to obey the ecclesiasticall Iudge are compelled by ecclesiasticall censures For they themselues doe interprete these wordes He that will not heare the Church c. to bee vnderstood both of great and small matters Quaere Putcase Quaest 37. if Moses vnder the law and Timothee and others vnder the Gospell needed to haue a forme of gouernment of the Church prescribed to them by the Lord whether it bee likely that the Lorde woulde commit the Church to M. Whitg M. Cooper M. Bancroft and others to frame a gouernement for it at their pleasures The Lord doth not commit his Church to bee gouerned by any at their pleasures Answere least of all to the aldermen and new consistories things like toodestooles the last night risen out of the ground and ruling al things without reine or restraint of reason It might haue pleased this libeller in naming these men to vse other names if not for authoritie they beare yet for common ciuilities sake but he will perchance shewe that he neyther respecteth authoritie nor ciuilitie but meaneth to reuell at all that resist his fancie and that iniuriously for neyther these excellent men nor others doe hold it lawfull to frame a fond
crowne and for a contumacious and rebellious person that maketh question whether hee ought to obey such lawes as her Maiestie and the whole parliament and wisest men of England haue thought to bee godly and conuenient and lastly in what case the Putcase and his fellowes are that in broade speeches openly and in printed bookes directly oppugne them and by calumnious questions pinch at them 2 Quaere whether those that woulde ouerthrowe not onely the priuiledges and liberties of the Church of England but also the whole ecclesiasticall state their iurisdiction and liuings seeke not the ouerthrowe of Magna charta and infinite statutes and of a great part of the common lawes of this Realiue and seeke the dishonour of her Maiestie and the state by requiring at her handes things that tende to the violating of her oathe taken at the time of her coronation and the ouerthrowe of the rewardes of learning and whether such as are chiefe doers in these causes are longer to bee suffered to proce do in their presumption 3 And because the Putcase maketh mention of that reuerende Iudge Sir Christopher Wray late lorde chiefe Iustice of England let him also answere whether hee did nor both in his opinion as a iudge and in bitter reâ—mes as a man in vtter dislike of these mens obstinacie coudemne those that obstinately refused before ecclesiastical iudges to take their othes or to declare being examined mattens concerning themselues or others so farre as then concerned had life or member and whether the reuerend learned iudge and lawyers of England haue not resolued the proceedings of ecclestasticall courts to be lawfull and disallowed the notorious contumacie of those men that refused notwithstanding vpon their owne vaine conceipts to answere 4. Quaere whether the booke of Fenner that is intituled sacra Theologia and came forth with the Pythagoricall allowance of T. C. conteine not strange diuinitie and whether it be likely that the resolutions of the consistorie shoulde bemore learned then the positions of two such omniscient diuines 5 Quaere whether it bee not reason to make T.C. recant those dangerous opinions he hath published in that booke and whether those that made the newe communion booke are not to be called in question for publishing of new confessions offaith and new doctrine 6 Let also great inquiry be made by what law or title the churchaldermen do clayme so large authority both in ecclesiasticall and domesticall matters as lately they haue taken vpon them in some churches k Quaere what is become of the actes and memorials of the consistorie that is supposed to haue beene both in the Church of God vnder the lawe and vnder the Gospell and what may bee the reason that so famous men should neither haue their names nor doings mentioned in any historie holy or prophane or other writing Quaere whether such as suffer their children to die without baptisme because the time of the assembly of the congregation commeth not betweene their birth and death are not guilty of contempt of baptisme and whether they that teach this doctrine bee found christians that rather then they will breake a consistorial rule will suffer christians children to depart without the badge and marke of christianitie 9 Quaere whether they that cal those scriptures which are commonly called Apocryphall lyes and fables doe therein declare themselues to haue the iudgement of learned men or modestie of ciuill persons seeing the fathers of olde time and diuers learned men of our times also doe honor them next after the Canonicall scriptures 1 Zanch. confess and whether T.C. would not take it in euill part to haue his voluminous replies called lyes and fables which notwithstanding are farre inferior to the worst part of the Apocryphal scriptures 10 Quaere whether the consistoriall constitutions doe not bring into vse the iudiciall lawes of Moses as for example that of retaliation of capitall punishments of adulterie and blasphemie and whether felonies that were by Moses lawe punished ciuilly may not be punished with death and whether that the Consistoriall faction doeth not deny her Maiestie power to pardon offenders that by Moses iudiciall lawes are to be punished with death 11 Quaere how it happeneth that the disciplinarians shame not to speake against Bishops which themselues deny not to haue bene euer in the Church since the Apostles times and which we offer to proue to haue authoritie by the word of God seeing they commend a fond and new found gouernement that hath neither authoritie of lawe nor confirmation by ancient practise the lawes whereof are most absurde and vnreasonable 12 Quaere by what authoritie they interpre the wordes Dic Ecclesiae and presbyteriqui bene praesunt c. and the wordes of the Apostle 1. Cor. 12.28 Ephes 4.10 Rom. 12. contratrarie to all the ancient fathers to histories to themselues yea contrarie to the text it selfe and common reason 13. Quaere why Ministersshould not be forced as well to subscribe to the gouernmeÌ„t of the church of England as the ministers of France to the French discipline they of Geneua to the ordinances of Geneua these being so lately inuented and established and hauing so notorious exceptions against them and being no way to be compared to the orders of our Church for authoritie antiquitie or other good condition or qualitie 14 Quaere whether the Consistorie decreeing and proceeding contrarie to the discipline of France and Geneua and their new Zion is to be allowed or obeyed and whether euery acte of the Consistorie be lawe to binde the rest of that congregation and if it be then what certeintie can be in that gouernement and whether that gouernement be not worse then papall seeing the Popes proceede according to their owne lawes these fellowes will not be bounde by any lawes either of their owne or others 15 Quaere if the Consistories sentence be the sentence of the Church whereunto euery one is to obey and he that obeyeth not to be holden as a heathen and publican how it chanceth that the Synode sometimes is so bolde as to reuerse the Consistories sentence and not to holde the disobedient as a publican and sinner 16 Quaere if by the wordes It shall not be so with you all power of ordination iudgement making and executing of orders deposing of ministers and such like authoritie be taken from Bishops by what reason the ministers of the new discipline in their new Consistories and Synodes take on them so peremptorily to put in and out and to make lawes and to determine most absolutely and imperiously 17 Quaere what time of the yeere and vnder what signe the resolutions of the Consistorie are most ripe viz. whether when the sunne entereth into Aries or Capricorne or in haruest time or midsommer moone and whether a madman that hath Lucida interualla as one of the authors of the petition hath bee a sound man to make a piller of the Consistorie and what order is to be taken
for such men when Luna is praedominant in their heades 18 Quaere whether it be a matter tolerable and beseeming wise gouerners that clownes and men of occupatiō should determine matters of religion or that ideots should iudge of lawe and gouerne all matters ecclesiasticall and by what rule of diuinitie it may be surmised that an ignorant man being chosen an Elder shoulde sodenly be endued with new graces and as Th. Cartw. the great disciplinarian patriarke faith become a new man as if he were new perboyled in Peleus his tubbe 19 When the Consistorie consisteth of 13 good men and true whereof sixe looke one way and seuen another Quaere why the odde voyce should make the sentence of seuen to be the determination of the Church and whether this be not an odde discipline where one odde man maketh a determination to be called the Churches determination 20 Quaere by what lawe Doctors Pastors and Deacons make one corporation seeing in no place of scripture they are mentioned together nor by any authoritie or commission are linked together 21 Quaere by what authoritie the Ministers of forreine churches take on them to prescribe formes of discipline and new lawes vnto our Church seeing they teach that all churches haue equall power and whether this be not a foundation to a new popedome 22 Quaere whether all the errours of Barrowisme doe not folowe and may be concluded of Th. Cartw. Wat. Tr. and Dud. Fenners positions and whether this sort of men is fit to deale with those sectaries and ought not rather to be driuen to make a publike recantation of their foule opinions 23 Quaere in case a musterd seller or chandeller should be chosen a churchalderman and thought worthie to iudge of the highest matters of religion who should all that while furnish the common wealth with musterd and candels and whether that their sentences would not sauour ranke of musterd and tallowe and how many candlesellers or men of occupation they finde to haue bene present in Synodes of olde time at the debating of pointes of religion 24 Quaere whether the disciplinarians doe not flatly deny the principall pointes of her Maiesties supremacie and take from her power to ordeine rites and orders for the church to nominate Bishops to appoint Ecclesiasticall commissioners and to delegate learned men to heare the last appeale from the Ecclesiasticall courtes to call Synodes and other authoritie giuen to the prince by the lawes of England and endeuour to bring in forreine lawes and iurisdiction repugnant to the statutes of supremacie and her maiesties prerogatiue and the lawes and liberties both of the Church and all her maiesties subiectes 25 Quaere if the establishment of the consistoriall discipline in the Church of England would not ouerthrowe infinite statutes most of the Common lawes diuers courtes of Iustice the two Vniuersities and innes of court and finallie the whole state and whether the Vniuersities in places where this discipline is entred be not decayed and the state shaken notwithstanding that the power thereof by diuers lawes contrarie to the rules of discipline is abridged 26 Quaere how many sound diuines or learned men there are that haue bene bredde in the places where this discipline is receiued and whether they haue not parted the Church goods among themselues where they were masters as the soldiors parted Christes coate giuing some little portion backe againe of the whole least they should liue all together without religion 27 Quaere whether it be likelie for the vaine hope of a hundred poundes pention depending on the vncerteine pleasures of marchants men of occupation and husbandmen that yong men of towardnes will giue themselues to the studie of diuinitie and what braue youthes are made ministers within the disciplinarians iurisdiction 28 Quaere how the spoyles of the Church which these men haue made in all places where they rule are bestowed and what portion thereof is come to the maintenance of learned men or learning 29 Quaere what commodities her maiestie doth receiue now by renthes subsidies first fruites patronages lapses custodies of bishops temporalities and how much the same amounteth vnto likewise what seruices she hath now by the Ecclesiasticall state and their followers and whether shee should not loose both great reuenues and make many faithfull seruitors vnable to serue her if this inkepot discipline shoulde come in place and if any man say that the same should be bestowed vpon noblemen and knightes and gentlemen that should succeede in the place of others let inquire be made whether some puritane dame doe not spend in apparell more then the reuenues of diuers cathedral churches and whether it would fall out that the reuenues of the Church would bee wasted vainely which now mainetaine manie able men to doe the prince seruice 30 Quaere whether in all places where the factious disciplinarians haue set foote in this Church they haue not set the people against their pastors and deuided the people among themselues and hardened mens heartes and made them without naturall affection and lifted vp their followers in pride and vanitie and made the people farre worse then before and sought nothing but their owne profite and aduancement 31 Quaere whether it be not a dangerous point to this Church and state that we are so much vrged by some to imitate the course helde for reformation by them of Geneua and Scotland heretofore considering the dangerousnes of their plattes and the effectes that followed vpon them and the vnsounde diuinitie whereupon they are grounded 32 Quaere by what point of discipline they of Geneua expulsed their Bishop and liege Lorde and right Countie of Geneua and what reuenues of the Church they seased into their handes and what portion they allowed backe againe to the poore ministerie and whether it bee not capitall in that state to speake for the estate of Bishops which pointes cleared it will appeare what reason they had first at Geneua to inueigh and declaime against the state of Bishops Quaere whether the peremptorie dealings of the ministers of Geneua and some others adhearing vnto them and the greedie sacrilege of their abbettors and followers and the vtter subuersion of the ecclesiasticall state which this antischolasticall and fantasticall discipline doeth euery where worke haue not greatly hindered the reformation of religion in France and other places and is not still likely to hinder the same vnlesse the same be newly recocted and reformed 34 Quaere whether the disciplinarians doe not deliuer doctrine as dangerous to princes as Rosse Sanders Allen and other papistes namely concerning excommunication deposing and murdering of princes that withstand the religion and reformation which eache of them respectiuely desireth 35 Quaere whether 1 History of the Church of Scotland pag. 213. Knoxe saide truely of Caluin and certeine other Ministers then residing at Geneua and if hee reporte their doctrine truely whether they holde a sounde point of doctrine teaching That it is lawfull for
his manifolde lewde demeanours and trecheries 73 Item because the Petitioner standeth so much vpon Vdals innocency refusing presumptuously as it should seeme any maner of fauour let him also answere whether the sayd Iohn Vdall was not acquainted with Hackets Copingers and Arthingtons conspiracy seeing that Copinger a litle before his outrage writ vnto him that now the Lorde had inabled him to fight to vanquish and ouercome that there was a Fast towardes in regarde of the afflicted Saintes in generall that hee assured himselfe that God would blesse the actors in that cause that there were diuers out of prison lying hid that in this great worke were hammering their heads c. that the same persons hoped in short time to bee brought forth into the sight of Vdals brethren and their owne enemies that their presence would daunt the enemies that God would vse base men in this worke lest men should boast in the arme of flesh that Vdall and his fellowes in prison should cheare vp their hearts for that the day of their redemption was at hand and that Vdall and his fellowe prisoners should pray that the hande of the Lorde might bee strengthened in them whom hee had appoynted to take parte with them quaere I say whether Iohn Vdall bee a loyall subiect that neuer reueiled this practise and bee not guiltie of farre more then euer was layd to his charge 74 Quaere whether the Petitioner hath not greatly hurt the cause of his clyent Vdall in giuing occasion to mention matters forgotten and almost forgiuen and whether taking parte with such fellowes himselfe is not an abettor of felonie 75 Quaere whether Th. Cartwr and master Eg. did not receiue letters from the conspirators concerning their designements and did not also conceale the same and whether the sayde master Eg. did not will the sayd Copinger to take heede that hee did not by his extraordinary calling hinder the great cause in hande and say that himselfe being an ordinary minister could not iudge of Copingers extraordinany calling and therefore would be lothe to quenche the spirit in him and whether these paraphrases of discipline stand with loyaltie and good diuinitie 76 Quaere whether T. C. and other disciplinarian teachers did not allowe the scornefull and wicked Libels of Martin and also certaine seditious dialogues and inuectiues against the State and whether their disciplinarian rules will beare them out in it 77 Quaere whether any is receiued or suffered to continue in the Ministerie at Geneua or other places gouerned like Geneua that make any scruple to subscribe or that speake against the orders of the church and whether certaine were not banished for speaking against wafer cakes there vsed in the Communion and against Vsurie and why factious persons should be more tolerated here then there 78 Quaere whether it bee a good course to suffer such as doe giue probable suspicions of discontentment with the present gouernment to continue gouernours of houses in Vniuersities and to teach schooles and to liue in the church which like vipers they seeke to ruinate 79 Quaere whether to procure a learned ministerie it be a good course to take away the rewardes of learning or at least to hazard them 80 Quaere howe many of the ministers of the reformed churches haue bene able to leaue so much to their wiues as to maintaine them from beggery and whether any man of worth can endure that indignitie and whether diuers for want of maintenance haue not fled the countrey of their habitation 81 Quaere of Pierce Putcase whether a pretended godly brother as you woulde say W. St. who is a piece of the putcase himselfe may by the lawes of this new kingdome like a thiefe or murtherer lye in wait by the high way side with a caliuer ready charged to kill his owne naturall brother for that he is not sufficiently reformed and whether this bee a sanctified course to win a brother to this melancholike reformation 82 Let also this question bee asked of the same man whether a disciplinarian brother whose wiues misgouernement made the poore man runne horne woode may notwithstanding bee choosen an alderman considering that Daneau a noble founder of this kingdome doth in his Isagogicall instructions holde that all the preceptes that Saint Paul giueth of bishops 1. Tim. 3. doe belong to the Church aldermen also and that it is required that such bishops bee chosen as can gouerne their house well and whether it is likely that he that hath no good head in gouerning his own house shoulde haue a good iudgement in gouerning of the Church 83 Item Quaere because he asketh me certaine questions of Th. Cartw. by what mysterie or science a man may sell a coate and 3 or 4 acres of land and purchase therewith 3 or 4 good lordships and yet maintaine a great familie and fare well and keepe a pedant to teach his daughters Hebrewe 84 Quaere also whether a learned sister that vnderstandeth some Greeke and Hebrewe may not in a parlour at a tables end paraphrase vpon a text of scripture according to the puritane stile and whether it bee not time for schollers to turne their bookes when such paraphrastes take on them to abuse scriptures 85 Quaere whether a trencher paraphrast I meane these that degorge discipline at full tables and vpon full stomacks at their benefactours tables are among those callings that saint Paul mentioneth Ephes 4. and not being how they dare presume to handle Gods word or rather to abuse holy scriptures in that sort 86 Item whether certaine sanctified brethren attained vnto 24 carrats of perfection in discipline may notwithstanding practise the Iewes trade and take 10. in the hundred or more if they can get it 87 Quaere whether a man may growe to that extremitie of burning zeale that euery spring and fall hee shall renewe like a serpent that casts her skinne as it happened to a certaine holy brother at Ipswich not many yeeres since and whether such a fellowe bee a fit man for a president of a consistorie 88 Quaere whether as in Italie and other places of poperie desperate wicked men runne into the order of Theatins or Capussins so certaine desperate bankeruptes and loose liuers as Bar. Fl. and others haue not suddenly runne into puritanisme and whether this alteration be not ab extremo in extremum by such men as will neuer come into medium 89 Quaere why it shoulde bee more lawfull for ignorant men of base trades and occupations to take vpon them the decision of matters of religion and gouernement of the Church then it is for Giles Wig. to become a malster and others of this sect to become grasiers and wiredrawers and such like 90 Quaere whether a godly brother rather then by selling his liuing he shoulde ouerthrowe his house 1 The doubt of Th. Sa. of Yorkeshire may not by the lawes of discipline breake bond and promise and suffer his sureties to lye by it and in