Geneua at the least that of all likelyhood as diuers housholdes by his owne rule do concurre together to make one conuenient parish So diuerse parishes in one citie suburbes and territorie thereof may be vnited and rightlye beare the name of the church Except wee shall thinke that Christ referring as they suppose his Apostles to the imitation of the Iewes church gouernment they were so negligent workemen as there being at that time 400. Synagogues in that one citie they had erected in all their times but one congregation christian church or parish answerable to one Synagoge it being lawfull for them by the square of that platforme to haue erected if they had could 400. But let this passe as a thing impertinent and to returne to the maimed pining Parishes at Geneua You will say did not Cartwright know the ecclesiasticall gouernment of that citie when he writ his bookes or shall we once conceaue that he thought to condemne that regiment which in other places hee doth so greatly extoll certainly for mine owne part although I do not greatly respect what he will saie that hee either knoweth or thinketh yet I suppose he will neuer for shame denie it but that he misliketh that forme of church regiment For first besides the premises being vrged with Caluins authoritie who thought the church of Geneua with all her sayde Parishes to make but one body of a church his answere to that point in effect is this Admit Caluin so thought I am of opinion that if Caluin had not soe thought hee would neuer haue erected vp such an Eldership And if Beza did not thinke so still I iudge hee would alter it Secondly also vppon another occasion he resembleth the order of certaine reformed churches which in this sence must be necessarily either of Scotland Flaunders or Geneua vnto the custome in S. Ieromes time when Bishops besides their one onely church had certaine other congregations belonging to their ouersight c. and in mislike thereof sayth for parte of his answere to this pointe being pressed by his aduersary against him I appeale to the institution of God and vse of the purer times after the Apostles But amongst other qualifications which he maketh least we should thinke that where such reformations are made as haue diuers parishes belonging to one Eldership there the old Diocesse and Bishops are in effect not abrogated but a little altered he sayth that one in such Eldership is aboue the rest but for a time as Caluin was chosen thereunto euery two yeares and not during his ministerie Which authority ouer many parishes but for a time although he will not plainly condemne it in the reformed churches which hee fauoreth yet speaking against the order of the church of England both he his companions doe make it a steppe whereby Sathan did aduaunce the kingdome of Antichrist Lastly as hitherto you haue found M. Cartwright with his friendes opposite in this matter vnto Geneua and Scotland differing also much from the churches in the Low countries so he seemeth to mee to crosse himselfe For in his second booke hee sayth that particular churches are nowe in steed of Synagogues and that their Synagogues were the same that our particular churches are And in his third booke he writeth thus For my part I confesse that there commeth not to my minde whereby I could precislie conclude out of the olde testament that there was an eldershippe amongst the Iewes in euery of their Synagogues If that can not then be shewed out of Moses who was so faythfull in setting downe all that was committed to his charge and that Christ commaunded no new thing but such as Moses instituted how hath hee vrged so mightely that we must haue his Elderships in euery Parish We shall see peraduenture that in shorte time M. Cartwright will giue ouer this holde and betake himselfe to the citie consistories framing new Diocesses to bee subiect vnto them as in other countries you haue heard they are Well I would wishe that before their Elderships were graunted vnto them they should agree together where they ought to place them But nowe to the seuerall partes of euery Eldership CHAP. 8. Of Bishops generally of the pretended equalitie of Pastors or new parish Bishops and how the chiefe impugners of Bishops beginne to relent IN the olde testament the high Priest besides that he was a figure of Christ had also vnder Moses Iosua the Iudges and Kinges for the better ordering and gouernment of the church authoritie and iurisdiction ecclesiasticall within that countrie of Canaan vnder whom for the same purpose were other Priests at least 24. that were called Principes Sacerdotum Princes of the Priestes all of them inferior to the high Priest but superior to the rest In the new testament our Sauiour Christ whilst hee liued on the earth had his Apostles and in degree vnder them his 70. Disciples After his ascentiō the same inequality of the ministery of the word continued in the Church by all mens confession as long at the least as the Apostles liued In the Apostles times Saint Marke was Bishop of Alexandria Saint Iames was Bishop of Ierusalem Timothy was Bishop of Ephesus and Titus was Bishop of Crete if the ancient fathers and Ecclesiastical histories be of any credite The Apostles hauing receaued the promise of the holy Ghost after a short time dispersed themselues by aduise into diuerse regions And there by painefull preaching and labouring in the Lords haruest they planted no doubt very many Churches As the number of Christians grew and had their particular assemblies and meetings in many Cities and countries within euery one of their circuites they placed pastors in euery congregation they ordained certaine Apostolicall men to bee chiefe assisters vnto them whom they placed some one in this particular countrey another in that and some others in sondry Cities to haue the rule and ouersight vnder them of the Churches there and to redresse and supply such wantes as were needefull And they themselues after a while and as they grewe in age and escaped the crueltie of tyrantes remained for the most part in some head Citty within their compasse to ouersee them all both Churches Pastors and Bishops or Superintendents and to giue their directions as occasions required and as they thought it conuenient When any either of these Apostolicall assistantes or of the Apostles themselues dyed there were euer some worthy men chosen and appointed to succeede them in those Cities and Countries where they had remained For wee may not idlely dreame that when they dyed the authoritie which was giuen vnto them ceased no more then we may that the authoritie of Aaron of his naturall sons expired and ended with them Besides it is manifest by all Ecclesiasticall hystories that many Churches were planted after theyr deathes And furthermore it coulde not be but that some Churches especially vnder those Apostles that were soonest put to
Zanchius reporteth of Archbishops and Bishops into new and worse Latine names of superintendentes and generall superintendentes Erneste the Duke of Brunswick presently after the assembly of Augusta procured Vrbanus Regius to go home with him ecclesiarum in toto Ducatu Episcoparum ipsius gubernationi permisit and coÌ„mitted vnto his gouernment the Bishopricke or superintendencie of all the Churches within his Dukedome One Sydonius being thrust as it seemeth from the Bishopricke of Mersenburge as cleauing wholly to Popery was afterwardes vppon his leauing of the Pope and vpon promise made to maintaine the reformation of religion made in his absence restored to his bishopricke And after him succeeded as I take it in that bishopricke George the Prince Anhalt before mentioned being chosen thereunto as hee saith himselfe vniuerso capitali consensu by the consent of the whole chapter He had been brought vp in learning and was at the time of the saide election a Priest or Cannon in the Cathedrall Church of Mersenburge Of whom being bishop Henricus Stenius saith règebat ecclesias in Mersenburgensi diocaesi hee ruled the Churches in the dioces of Mersenburge And againe praesuit ecclesijs vniuersae ditionis Mysorum he gouerned the Churches of all the dominion of Mysya Agreeable aswell to these examples as to the saying of Zanchius before specified is that which Ia Haerbrandus a verie learned man and in his time Diuinitie reader of Tubinge writeth in his common places Debent gradus esse c. There ought to be degrees amongest Ministers c. as with vs in the Duchy of Wirtenberge there are subdeacons Deacons Pastors special superintendentes and ouer them generall superintendentes And in another place the same Haerbrand shewing his iudgement generally Saluberrimum esset c. It were a most profitable order for the welfare of the Church if euery particular prouince had her Bishoppes and the Bishops their Archbishop And Iacobus Andreas hee is muche of the same opinion as certaine Ministers of Heidelberge doe reporte vz where hee saith that it is a difficult matter to defend the peaceable estate of Churches except there be some chiefe ruler and Byshop amongest them to whome rerum summa deferatur the full ordering of matters may be referred To this purpose in like sorte Osiander writeth euen as though he had spoken of the Church of England Although in the Primitiue church when she flourished with myracles there were diuers degrees and orders of Ministers some Apostles some Prophets some Euangelistes and some Pastors and Doctors yet as now the state of the Church is the Ministers may be deuided into three orders or degrees vz Deacons Pastors and Superintendentes c. To the Pastors particular Churches are committed Nec dubitatur c. and it is not doubted but that euery one of them may rule the Church committed vnto him sine collegae concilio without the Councell of any fellow Those pastors we call superintendents who are so set ouer other pastors that they may visite the state of their Churches and punish both the Pastors and the people if any thing be done amisse or if any thing fall out that they cannot correct then they referre it vnto a higher court consisting of deuines and politick men who by the ciuile Magistrates authoritie or approbation doe amend such defects c. Hemingius also affirmeth that there are dispares dignitatis gradus in the ministery that partly by the law of Cod partly by the approbation of the Church that as Christ ascending into heauen gaue gifts vnto men Apostles Prophets Euangelists doctors and pastors so he gaue to the Church authoritie for edification that the Church by vertue of that power ordained ministers for her profite that the purer churches following the Apostles times ordained some Patriarchs some Bishops c. some Pastors and some Catechists c. That the reformed Churches haue their Bishops doctors Pastors and vnder them chaplains we call them curâ—tes as I thinke That the Churches in Denmarke doe acknowledge degrees of dignitie amongst Ministers that they iudge it meet that other Ministers should obey their Bishops in althings which tend to the edification of the church according to the word of God the profitable gouernment of the Church and that they iudge Bb s. to haue authoritie ouer other Ministers of the church ius non despoticum sed patrium Ieremia Hombergus a worthy man in the Churches of God about Styria Carinthia and Carniola but now remoued thence through the persecution which the Iesuits haue kindled in those parts affirmeth in his commoÌ„ places of diuinitie reuiewed allowed at Ratisbone with very direct termes that God himselfe hath appointed degrees of ministers in the church euen amongest those which haue a mediate calling vt concordia inter ministros coÌ„seruetur c. that concord amongst ministers might be preserued the workes of their ministery performed more easily and more decently And after he hath specified the common duties both of Bishops and ministers he setteth down those which he thinketh are peculiar to Bishops and to bee executed by them vz excommunication ordination and confirmation And with him agreeth the Diuinitie reader at Lauinge Phill. Haylbronner writing vpon the first Epistle of S. Paul to Timothy Where he sheweth that the Apostle appointed Timothy to be Bishop of Ephesus that accordingly there are and ought to be degrees and orders of ministers of the Church hauing described the common duties likewise of all ministers generally he saith thus Episcopus c. Besides the said common offices to Bishops was commended the publicke ouersight and gouernment so as it belonged to them to appoint fit ministers for the churches neere them also to heare the accusations and complaints which are made against the Pastors of theyr churches and to decide them c. Sic enim Paulus scribit Timotheo Ephesorum Episcopo for so Paul writeth to the Bishop of Ephesus lay thy hands rashly vppon no man and against a Priest admit not an accusation c. Of the same iudgement in like sort is Egidius Hunius the diuinitie professor at Marpurge in his commentarie vpon S. Pauls Epistle to Titus He affirmeth that the Apostle appointed Titus the generall superintendent for the gouernement ouer the Churches of that large and noble Iland of Crete that his dutie was to ordaine Pastors in euery parish and likewise to make Bishops that the Bishop or superintendent hath his dioces the Pastor his parishe or church as Paule commaunded Titus to place priestes in euery parish That thereby it appeareth God doth require that there should bee orders and degrees amongest Ministers vt alij praesint alij subsint that some may rule and some obey that this order is not newly deuised but receaued in the church from the Apostles times and that God himselfe made a distinction betweene Ministers and appointed degrees according to that hee gaue some Apostles
name to all ministers of the vvord and sacraments vvithout distinguishing thereby any one of them from another or vvas it not euer vvithin the time limited taken and vsed only in the said distribution for one amongst the ministers of the vvord and sacraments that gouerned the rest both of the ministers and people vvithin their circuits limited vnto them This question with the rest was sent to maister doctor Raynolds in Oxford to the intent he might returne his opinion of them which he forbare at that time to do in respect of certain other businesse that he had in hand Howbeit maister doctor Robinson his especial most familiar friend being acquainted as it seemeth with the sayd questions hath written in this sort vpon another occasion not dissenting therein as I take it from maister doctor Reynolds I haue sayth he mainteined it in the pulpit that the titles of honour vvhich vve giue to bishops are no more repugnant to the vvord of God then it is for vs to bee called vvardens presidents prouosts of colleges And in my iudgement they may vvith as good conscience be gouernours of their diocesse as vve being ministers may be gouernours of colleges of ministers Neither do I thinke that this vvas a late deuised policie For I am persuaded that the angell of the church of Ephesus to vvhom S. Iohn vvriteth vvas one minister set ouer the rest For seeing there vvere many pastors there vvhy should S. Iohn vvrite to the angell of the church of Ephesus and not rather to the angels if there had bene no difference amongst them And if this presidencie had had that fault vvhich is reprooued in Diotrephes as S. Ierome proueth that the Ievves had not corrupted the originall text before Christ his comming Quod nunquam dominus Apostoli qui caetera crimina arguunt in Scribis Phariseis de hoc crimine quod erat maximum reticuissent So I may say neither vvould our sauiour vvho by his seruant reproueth those disorders vvhich he found in the seuen churches haue passed ouer this great fault in silence Therefore as Titus vvas left to reforme the churches throughout the vvbole Iland of Crete so I am persuaded that in other places some of that order of pastors and teachers vvhich is perpetuall in the church euen in the time of the Apostles had a prelacie amongst their bretheren and that this preheminencie is approoued by our sauiour And if vve come any lovver though the vvord Episcopus signifie that care vvhich is required of all in scripture be applied to all that haue charge of soules yet I do not remember any one ecclesiasticall vvriter that I haue read vvherein that vvord doth not import a greater dignitie then is common to all ministers Neither do I thinke that any old vvriter did vnder the name of Bishop meane the pastor of euery parish VVhen the emperors vvere persecutors vve read of seueral elders but neuer of more then one bishop at once in Rome the like is to be sayd of other great cities and the churches neere adioining And to meet vvith that offence vvhich is taken at the name of Archbishop because that name is so appropriated to Christ in scripture that it is no vvhere giuen to any other I take it that there is no substantiall difference betvveene archbishop and archbuilder Either therfore the Apostle offended in taking too svvelling a title vvhen hee called himselfe an archbuilder or cheefe builder or it must be graunted that this title may in some degree be giuen to men vvithout derogation to Christ. And thus farre doctor Robinson with whom if maister doctor Reinolds do agree I see not whither the factioners will turne them for as I take it they will not reiect his opinion They haue bragged much of him indeed and of his iudgement in sundrie of their writings as though he were wholy on their side and that they held nothing but he would iustifie it Howbeit they haue done him therin I doubt not exceeding great iniurie For requitall wherof I would wish him neuer to seeke any other reuenge but to turne them to his booke against Hart where hee hath written his mind as touching this point now in hand In the Church of Ephesus sayth he though it had sundrie elders and pastors he vseth these two words in one signification as by the sentence going before it is manifest to guide it yet amongst those sundrie vvas there one cheefe vvhom our sauiour calleth the angell of the church and vvriteth that to him vvhich by him the rest shâ—uld â—novv And this is he vvhom aftervvards in the primitiue church the Fathers called bishop For c. the name of Bishop common before to all elders and pastors of the church vvas then by the vsuall language of the Fathers appropriated to him vvho had the presidentship ouer elders Thus are certain elders reproued by Ciprian Bishop of Carthage for receiuing to the communion them vvho had fallen in time of persecution before the bishop had aduised of it vvith them and others Here then you haue two for Oxford touching the language of the ancient fathers when they speake of bishops Now you shal haue a Cambridge mans opinion no moe but of one I tell you at this time marry he shall be such a one as the brotherhood if they bee of the painters mind before mentioned in the chapter may well bee compared with the other two seeing his iudgement is layd in equall ballance there both with Caluins and Bezaes and that without any disparagement vnto them you know whom I mean it is maister doctor Fulke who in his confutation of the Rhemish notes vpon the new testameÌ„t writeth thus Amongst the clergie for order and seemly gouernment there was alwaies one principall to vvhoÌ„ by long vse of the church the name of Bishop or superintendent hath bene applied vvhich roome Titus exercised in Creta Timothie in Ephesus others in other places Therfore although in the scripture a bishop and an elder is of one order and authoritie in preaching the vvord and administration of the sacraments as Hierome doth often confesse yet in gouernmeÌ„t by ancient vse of speech hee is onely called a Bishop vvhich is in the scriptures called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ro. 12. 8. 1. Tim. 5. 17. Heb. 13.17 that is cheefe in gouernment to vvhom the ordination or consecration by imposition of bands vvas alvvaies principally coÌ„mitted c. VVhich most ancient forme of gouernment vvhen Adrius vvould take avvay it vvas noted amongst his other errors Hitherto doctor Fulke so as hereby I trust it may appeare to maister Cartvvrights reproch and to all their shames that shall pretend any authoritie froÌ„ the ancient fathers to impugne the right honorable lawful calling of Bishops not parsons in euery parish but Bishops in their diocesse and prouinces appointed in the Apostlestimes for the right order and gouernment of
death were when they dyed in the same case that Crete was when Titus was sent thither and had therefore as much neede of a Titus as euer Crete had Furthermore who can bee accompted to be well in his wittes that will imagine that Christ should ordaine such an authoritie but for some threescore yeares especially the same causes continuing why it was first instituted that were before Nay I may boldly say that there was greater neede for the continuance of it afterward For the Apostles hauing so great power to worke myracles and by their praiers to procure from God such straunge executions of his pleasure vpon the contemptuous as did fall vpon Ananias and his wife and I doubt not but in like cases sometimes vpon some others their ruling and commaunding authoritie was not so necessarie then as it was afterwards when that power to worke myracles ceased But what should I neede to vse many wordes in a matter so apparant After the death of the apostles and of their assistants vz the Bishops placed by them as is mentioned the Ecclesiasticall hystories and the auncient fathers haue kept the register of their names that succeeded sundry of them and ruled the Churches after them as they before had ruled them Whereupon they were called from all antiquitie the Apostles and Apostolicall mens successors This inequalitie in the Ministery of the worde hath been approued and honoured by all the auncient fathers none excepted by all the generall Councelles that euer were held in Christendome and by all other men of learning that euer I heard of for many hundred yeares after the Apostles time sauing that Aerius the hereticke an ambitious person growing into great rage for that hee missed of a Bishopricke which he sued for first broached the opinion which is nowe so currant amongest his Schollers that there ought to bee no difference betweene a Bishoppe and a Priest Whereby he tooke vppon him to be equall with the Byshop that preuailed in the said suite against him chalenged to haue as great authoritie he being but a Priest as the other had being a Bishop In this latter age of the worlde when after a long darkenesse it pleased almightie God to restore vnto vs the light of his Gospell the chiefe instruments that God then vsed and adorned with most singular giftes for such a mightie worke were very farre from that conceite â—and rashe presumption which afterwardes possessed certaine persons of Aerius humour and yet doth boyle in many of theyr followers breastes It is true that many thinges are to bee found in their writings which at the first shew do make very greatly against Bishops But diuerse persons in these dayes not well considering the circumstances of those times doe greatly abuse the world in extending them further then they meant them It was farre from their intent that those thinges which they had written against Popish Bishops the ennemies of the Gospell should euer haue bene vrged against such Bishops as did willingly embrace it I will acquaint you a little with the proceedings of those times and then leaue this point to your wise consideration When the said learned men beganne to seeke the reformation of Religion in Germany it is not vnknowen vnto you into what subiection the Pope had brought all Christian Princes and states The Bishops as his vassals did then wholly depend vppon him They held their Bishoprickes by his authoritie and nothing coulde be done especially in Church matters but by the Pope and them So as when Luther and the rest beganne to disclose the enormities of Popery and desired some godly reformation of them you may easily conceiue the Pope and his Bishops being the chiefe maintainers of that corruption what little incouragement they found at their handes It is euident in their writinges howe earnestly and humbly at the first they dealth both with the Pope and with many other of the chiefest Bishops that they would be content and pleased to reforme such thinges as they found to bee amisse in the Church But all their indeuours to that purpose were in vain The Pope and his Clergy stood too much vpon their reputation If they should haue yealded they imagined the world would haue condemned them in that they had not in time of themselues preuented or redressed so notable abuses Whereupon Luther those learned men that ioyned with him were driuen to flie vnto the Ciuil magistrates to aduertise them of their dueties prouing it vnto them most plentifully out of the scriptures that in such an obstinate defection amongst the priests it appertained vnto theÌ„ euery one within their owne free states and territories to reforme religion themselues as the godly kings in the old testameÌ„t had done in the like cases And the rather to moue them thereunto they laboured by al the means they could to make the Popish Clergy most odious vnto them They inueighed against their pride against their superfluities against their tyranny and against their corruptions After much paines taking to these and the like effectes it pleased God to moue the hearts of many of the ciuile magistrates to thinke better of their duties plainly to perceiue how the Pope and his Bishops had formerly abused them The godly kings and magistrates in the scriptures wheÌ„ they reformed religion were euer most carefull that the liuinges appointed by God for the Priests might be throughly preserued If any by abuse had bin alienated they caused them to be restored againe And so I suppose the ciuile magistrates should haue done in this latter age But it hath faln out otherwise and all the other godly learned men in christendome do mislike it The perswasions to Princes that the Bishops and Abbots had too much was very plausible The free Cities notwithstanding their freedom in respect of the Emperor yet they were subiect all of them vnto Bishops were not discontented that so good an occasion was offred vnto theÌ„ to procure their greater liberty Luther and the rest of those learned men regarding nothing but that the light of the gospel might be restored were content to yeald much to beare against their minds with many vnequall conditions So as at the last by their wisdome and diligence they preuailed God moued the hearts of diuers ciuile magistrates to begin a reformation The Pope the Bishops and the chiefest of the Cleargy impugned it by all the meanes they could possibly Whereupon there being no other remedie their authoritie imployed to hinder those proceedinges was reiected and the most of their liuings which they had in any of those territories were seazed into the hands of the ciuile gouernors there vpon these many such like occasions great trobles did arise The bishops thoght theÌ„selues greatly iniuried Diuers great princes took their parts so did the Emperor They misliked the reformatioÌ„ which was proceeded in after that sort the authoritye of Bb s. was greatly insisted vpon Insomuch as notwithstaÌ„ding that the sayd learned
their setting vppe of their short plat of discipline bannished the cittie The causes before mentioned of this their bannishment were giuen out thus in generall termes Tyranni esse voluerunt in liberam ciuitatem voluerunt nouum pontificatum reuocare They would haue beene tyrants ouer a free cittie they would haue recalled a new papacy And here beganne the Consistorian humor which raigneth nowe amongst the factious sorte in England to shew it selfe but yet in a more secrete sorte by their priuate letters one to an other Their fauourers and partakers whome they lefte behinde them at Geneua presently after their departure entered into faction and refused to receiue the communion with vnleauened bread as it had beene ordered they should doe by the said Synode at Lausanna The ministers that remained in the cittie after them were greatly disgraced For in that they continued their ministery there without the newe Discipline they were said to hold otiosam functionem an idle function The Senate of two hundred that expelled the said three preachers was termed by Caluin tumultuos a perditorum hominum factio a tumultuoas faction of rakehells castaway es Beza saith that in that councell the greater part ouercame the better But then by the way they were not all of them such manner of men as Caluin reporteth The chiefest magistrates of the cittie euen the Syndickes were termed factionum et discordiarum duces the ringleaders of factions and dissentions They were resembled to Nabucadnezar and the exiles to Daniell And generally they gaue it out against all their backe frendes that they went about to ouerthrowe the Church and that they had obdurated themselues against the Lord Iesus Christ. These and such like speaches you must thinke were giuen out then secretly but since they are published in printe for other ministers instructions which may hereafter receiue any checke about that kinde of discipline Hetherto for ought I finde the pretended discipline had no great successe I must therfore proceede on forward These three preachers being thus banished their friendes at Geneua were maruailous earnest to haue them thither againe Many letters were procured from certaine churches and learned men to the magistrates in that behalfe as you shall partly perceaue by diuerse epistles set out vnder the title or together with Caluins epistles Euery one likewise in the Cittie that held for the discipline did his best with the people But Maister Caluin was the man whom they all of them most desired for the rest being else where placed they cared not much Vnto these endeuours may be added some very wise courses taken by Maister Caluin in the time that he discontinued from Geneua Cardinall Sadolet hauing written to the Geneuians in dislike of the alteration both of their state and of the Romish religion admonishing them to returne to their olde byace Maister Caluin aunswered him and iustified as he thought meete their proceedinges therein to their very good contentment Also where some that of his owne friends had greatly laboured to discredite the ministers of that cittie which were lefte to the griefe of the magistrates endeuoured to haue brought them vtterly into contempt for executing their ministerie without the pretended Discipline c. Maister Caluin staied that course by writing vnto them that he doubted not but that their ministers deliuered vnto them the chiefe heads of Christian religion which were necessary to saluation and that also they ioyned thereunto the right vse of the Sacramentes And then saith he where those two pointes are performed illic substantia ministery viget there is the substance of the ministerie and a lawfull honour and obedience is to be giuen to that Ministery Lastly the mutinie mentioned which was about refusall to communicate with vnleauened bread he likewise appeased by perswading the authours of it that it was a matter of indifferencie for the which they ought not to disquiet the peace of the Church By which occasions together with the former sutes mentioned the Citie as I iudge hauing conceaued a better opinion of maister Caluin then they had before and supposing that if he came againe amongst them he would vse a great deale more mildnesse and moderation in his proceedinges then hee had earst done they were at the last contented after two yeares bannishment and more to recall him vnto them vz in the yeare 1541. Whilest his friendes were labouring for him as you haue heard he himselfe perceiuing that hee shoulde returne thither was still harping to his friendes vppon this string how he might haue the Citie so bound to the forme of Discipline which he had in his head as that afterwardes they might not when they list start from it And therefore as soone as he was come thither hee imployed his studie that way especially At the first offering of his paines to the Senate he told him that the Church there could not possibly continue except there were same certaine forme of Church gouernement established Whereupon the Senate ordered at his request that he and fiue other of the Ministers should conferre together about such a forme as they thought meet and that hauing so done they should offer the same to the consideration of the said Senate Here then you shall see the strength of maister Caluins wit He wisely saw that notwithstanding the Bishops ecclesiasticall authoritie had been vtterly disgraced and was thereupon reiected as being forsooth Popish and tyrannicall yet it was not good for the Church that the ministers should bate the citie one ace of an ecclesiasticall authoritie aequiualent at the least to that which their Bishops formerly had enioyed amongest them Howbeit he well perceiued withall that for the bringing of this matter about there must be verie good pollicie and circumspection vsed or else that it would be a thing impossible to bring a people hauing gotten their libertie into the like or a worse seruitude then they were in before His plot therefore as I take it was as followeth He laboured to perswade the people and the Magistrates that as there was a ciuile Senate for the gouernement of the Citie and the territories thereof in ciuile causes so by the word of God there should be an ecclesiasticall Senate for the gouernment of the same Citie and territories conteining aboue twentie parishes in causes ecclesiasticall And to this purpose he wanted not I warrant you very many probable reasons The persons that should beare authoritie in this Senate I nothing doubt but that he could haue been very well contented they should haue been all of them ministers euen as the ciuile gouernment did then wholly consist of ciuile persons But by reason of the great authoritie that the preachers had before intituled the ciuile magistrates vnto for the bannishment of their Bishop for their dealing in Church causes wherewithall they were in some sorte possessed hee very wisely considered with Farellus and Viretus that if they tooke that course
matter that much offended any for ought I find Marry the other deuise of making fiftie Frenchmen Citizens at a clappe did wonderfully trouble many It caused a present mutinie in the Citie and a great vprore the sparks whereof were neuer quenched as long as maister Caluin liued And thus you haue the birth and confirmation of the Consistoriall discipline with a deuise for the continuance of it collected for the most part out of such Epistles as Beza hath thought meete to publish for maister Caluins commendation If I should haue set them both downe as some others haue done who are no Papistes you should haue heard another manner of history But I like not to take thinges at the worst hand The trueth was it I sought for And I would not haue done that neither in this point but because certaine persons of the consistoriall humour doe daily vpon euery occasion still dash vs in the teeth with the orders of Geneua the discipline at Geneua and the Consistorie in Geneua as though that forme of discipline had come lately from heauen with an embassage from God that all the Churches in the worlde must frame and conforme themselues to the fashion of Geneua Which gaue me iust occasion in mine opinion to search as you haue heard into the secrets of that manner of Discipline to knowe indeede from whence it came whether it would who deuised it when and how it was planted at Geneua the first place that hatched and receaued it CHAP. III. By whose instigation and how the pretended Discipline of Geneua hath enlarged her iurisdiction IT was not long after that M. Caluin had obtained his desire as you haue heard in the former Chapter for the planting of the platforme of his pretended Discipline in Geneua when for the better backing of himselfe he procured maister Beza his especiall friend a man whom he knew to be of a very great courage wise learned and one wholly addicted to applaude to all manner of his procedinges to be likewise placed with him there And then being both together two such excellent men amongest a company of Artizans and Marchaunts what might they not compasse and bring to effect Frō the time that maister Caluin came first to Geneua 1536. and had gotten the allowance of his first draught of Discipline vz. 1537. hee grew daily more and more into liking with it especially after the fuller inlargement thereof 1541. when hee was restored againe to his place at Geneua But most of all when about the yeare 1554. hee hadde triumphed as it were the third time by the greater part of the voices of the ignorāt multitude and had also gotten maister Beza his applauder into his company then we may not maruaile if that his platforme so trauailed for seemed glorious vnto him In those daies when maister Caluin did first shew himselfe in his writinges against the Papists he was the onely man of especiall account of all the French nation Insomuch as all the rest of his countrey men that began more freely to professe the Gospell did principally in a manner depend vppon him especially after he had possession of his great authority in the Presbytery at Geneua For then by reason of the quiet estate of that Citty the free accesse and entertainement of such French-men as fledde thither for religion the want of sufficient men in other places of their owne countrey to giue aduise and Councell what was to be done in such distresses of the Church as then were vsuall and by reason of the fame ability learning and pollicy both of himselfe and of his assistant Maister Beza and likewise of their willingnesse or rather desire to intertaine all occasions of busying themselues the Citty of Geneua became in short time for their sakes to bee of great estimation in Fraunce He that shall read maister Caluins and maister Bezaes two bookes of Epistles and likewise the Commentaries of Fraunce with diuerse other discourses about those affaires and should withall giue any credit either to Heshusius Baldwinus Carpentarius or others mē learned all of them and some of them knowen Protestants would certainly maruaile to vnderstand into what actions and dealinges they thrust themselues of warre of peace of subiection how farre it extended of reformation without staying for the Magistrates of leagues of impositions and what not They writte their Letters to this state and that state to this Prince and that Duke to this king and that Emperour what their desire was should be done in such and such a matter Not like the persons either of Newington or Hitchin that I may vse Cartwrights examples of such Episcopall Seas as he alloweth of but rather like two Patriarches at the lest Generally for Church-matters they had ingrossed the whole managing of them into their handes And then you may easely gesse what fauour the pretended presbyteriall discipline was like to finde with them it being the onely pretence for all that their authoritie or whatsoeuer else they tooke vpon them to deale in And marke howe the oportunitie serued them The number of zealous professors in Fraunce daily increased who exempted themselues from the tyrannous commandementes of their Romish Bishops They had then no order or certain forme of Church gouernment how to proceede and behaue themselues in their religious assemblies And to haue framed it to any forraine platformes woulde haue stirred vp coales amongest them Nay it was not possible to haue been compassed Maister Caluin and Maister Beza sitting at their sterne So that it came no sooner in question what maner of ecclesiasticall regiment was meetest for those Churches but the forme of discipline vsed at Geneua was presently agreed vpon From which time you shall finde that the reformation of religion in Fraunce did wholly proceede after the rules of that kinde of discipline It was not sufficient to haue the exercise of religion but the Churches must vindicari in plenam libertatem be restored to her full libertie Synodes were held lawes were made and decrees were put in execution What orders then in request what ceremonies what manner of seruice what kinde of subiection what way to reforme religion but after the fashion of Geneua Which course of proceedinges together with the rules thereof diuerse well affected in religion did greatly mislike Maister Ramus had written a booke against it if Carpentarius say truely and I take him to be an authenticall authour because the late petitioner alledgeth him for the gouernement of his Elders tearming the fountaine thereof or the platforme of such a discipline Thalmud Sabaudicum the Sauoyan Thalmud and greatly reproouing the obtruding of it vppon the Churches of Fraunce Much more might heere be added and that out of their owne authentike writers of this disciplinarian canker how and by what meanes it spred it self in Fraunce and in some other Countries But I will passe that ouer and come to acquaint you how the same infection hath been transported from those coastes to
of which their allobrogicall food so much as concerneth this poynt of the disciplinarian reformation that I may omitt their desperate poyntes of deposinge of Princes and of putting them to death in diuerse cases of resistance against reformation was this that if the soueraine magistrates refused to admitt it the ministers the inferior magistrates the people c. might set it on foote themselues Of these and such like arguments diuerse bookes were allowed of by the ministers of Geneua to bee then printed there in English and to be published for Englande and Scotland as conteyning such doctrine in them wherof the worlde might take notice that as they had practised some parte of it themselues so they would be ready vpon all occasions to iustifie it I haue heard many greately commende the intertainement that was giuen in Queene Maries time to Englishmen at Geneua And surely the citizens there are in mine opinion to be greatly commended and assisted for it as occasions shall require But yet to speake what I thinke it had beene better for this Iland that neither Englishman nor Scottishman had euer beene harbored or acquainted there in respect of such disciplinarian new lessons consistoriall practises as they haue brought with them from thence If euer you meete with the historie of the Church of Scotland penned by maister Knox printed by Vautrouillier reade the pages quoted here in the margent likewise peruse the English Chronicles of Scotland as they stand corrected by some men of good experience and credite appointed for that purpose in the places also noted but especially procure for your perfect instruction the Acts of the Parliament helde in Scotland 1584. as they are printed and are abroad in many mens hands and then tell me whether you be not of my minde for the fruict of maister Knox his being at Geneua I could referre you to some other Bookes but those shall suffice For there you shall finde that the whole course which hath been held in that country concerning the points I speake of was complotted at Geneua amongst the ministers there and Caluin is named There you shall finde the forme of the Consistoriall pretended Discipline being sette vp without publicke consent ouerthrowen by Act of Parliament and afterward restored againe you may see how As soone as this saide pretended discipline began to get a head in that Countrey then againe as amongest certaine of the Frenche Ministers no forme of Seruice or of the administration of the Sacramentes no orders nor any thing else but all must be done as it was at Geneua As any doubts did arise amongest them concerning any Church-causes though they were but very simple such as a student of meane capacity and iudgement might very easely haue satisfied yet no man but maister Caluin for his time and afterwards maister Beza as though they had beene such Peters for the Protestants as the Bishop of Rome pretendeth himselfe to be for all Papists was accounted of sufficiency or able to dissolue them when they had ouerthrowen the auncient state of theyr Bishops and set vp the Geneua minion by such means as you haue heard and had so farre preuailed therein as that now they began to please themselues exceedingly See how Beza being informed thereof doth allow of their dealings incourageth them to goe forewarde in such their obedient right Consistorian courses He tearmeth their reformation after the Geneua mould if I vnderstand him Caelum in terris situm a Heauen placed in the earth or at the least he compareth the force which had beene vsed about that matter to the power of God He saith that no nation in so few yeares had abidden more assaultes of Sathan to haue hindered the saide pretended Discipline and thanketh God that Knox is theyr Pilotte to guide that ship He exhorteth the said Pilot and his fellow marriners that seeing they had both pure Religion and pure Discipline now amongest them they should keepe them both together and neuer suffer as though they had beene all of them Princes the authority of Bishops in any wise to be restored againe Afterwarde there being some new attempt made as it seemeth in the behalfe of the Bishops and as I perceiue defeated by the pretended reformers vppon information thereof giuen by one Lawson a minister to Beza he returneth him an aunswere beginning in this sorte though he were then sicke Beastime you haue made me an happy man The same yeare also he writte the discourse of his three kinde of Bishops vz. of God of men and of the Diuell and sent it vnto a man of great state in that countrey It hath since beene translated into English by Field as I take it for our instruction in England Wherein Beza dealeth I wil not say like what kinde of Bishop but rather like some new start-vp Oracle and dissolueth questions Pellmell vz. that all Bishops other then such as haue an equality amōgst them and such as he alloweth and requireth that euery minister should be must of necessity be packing that the chiefe Elders should be admitted to be present in their Parliaments as the Bishops were to deale in Church-causes and to aunswere in place of God if any other matters fell out wherein the Lordes would be resolued that Papistes may not to be excommunicated what sinne soeuer they committe and that it is Sacriledge for any lay person and such a sinne as God will reuenge to staine his handes with the goodes of the Church He further prescribeth the whole course of the church gouernment for that kingdome to be fashioned after the platforme of Geneua taking much more vppon him therein then Eleutherius the Bishop of Rome would doe hauing a farre better occasion offered him by the king of Britaine Lucius Who after hee had newly receaued the Gospell mouing the saide Bishop in respect of his great fame by his Embassadors to prescribe vnto him some orders for the Churches within his Realme he returned vnto him this aunswere in effect that the King being Christes Vicar and hauing the Scriptures he the saide Bishop would not presume to prescribe any thing vnto him but leaue him to be directed by them Such an answer as this had beene more fitte for a man of Bezaes place then in such a pope-like manner to forbid and prescribe lawes to such a kingdome But I will leaue these and such like Geneuian dealinges in that part of this Iland because peraduenture they are desired to be continued there still and come vnto the Geneuating for the selfe same platforme of discipline here at home amongest our selues As soone as her maiesty whom Almighty God longe preserue to raigne ouer vs was come to the Crown word was sent into this Realme from Geneua in a Booke printed there 1559. that those Princes that would liue without the yoke of Discipline meaning that Geneuian forme were to be reputed for Gods ennemies and therefore vnworthy to
raigne aboue his people About the same time Goodman Whittingham Gilby and some others returned from Geneua into England What violēt and seditious doctrine they brought home with them at the least they three that are mentioned I leaue to some other oportunity But for the Geneuian discipline all their desires were in that point insatiable They had seene how Caluin and Beza did raign at Geneua and thought scorne thereuppon to be subiect vnto any It seemed vnto them a notable matter If euery one of them might by and by haue obtained an absolute autority where they should haue beene placed Comming from Geneua they thought they should haue beene admired But finding themselues therein deceaued and that their Geneuian motions were little regarded it wrought in them a very great discontentment and made them so wilfull that nothing would please them which was not practised in Geneua So as thereby great contentions were presently stirred vp by thē Their first assault was made against the Communion Book with the orders ceremonies that are therein prescribed In the which quarrels perceiuing themselues in many respectes as I take it to be ouermatched what was their refuge but forsooth they must complaine to maister Beza Which complaint receaued he writte his Letter in their behalfe vnto Doctor Grindall 1566. then Bishop of London I wish a man would read the Epistles of Leo sometimes Bishop of Rome and conferre them with this of Bezaes to consider whether tooke more vppon him Leo where he might commaund or Beza where there was no reason he should at all haue intermedled But let him goe on He findeth faults with the manner of apparell appointed for our Ministers with the Crosse in Baptisme with kneeling at the holy Communion with all ceremonies that carrie with them any signification and withall the ancient Fathers applying himselfe altogether to strengthen and incourage his factious old acquaintance in their froward and peruerse obstinacie And because his course taken therein should not bee vnknowen with the same minde that he writte this letter now you see hee hath printed it The yeare after 1567. when the sayd malecontents perceiued that notwithstanding Bezaes letter there was no place giuen vnto their giddie fancies but that euery daye they were withstood more and more and that with such sufficient reasons as for mine owne part I thinke that all the Bezaes in Christendome will neuer be able sufficiently to confute they beganne to stagger and knew not what they should do They could finde no directions in the scriptures how they might behaue themselues and therfore they were constrayned to fly againe to Beza Obserue well I pray you what he himselfe writeth hereof Saepe multumque c. Being oft and greatly desired of my deerest beloued Brethren of the Churches of England that in their miserable state Consilium illis aliquod suggereremus in quo acquiescere ipsorum conscientiae possent I would giue them some councell whereupon their consciences might rest diuerse men houlding diuers opinions c. A long time I differred for diuers waighty reasons so to do and I professe that most willingly I would yet haue beene silent but that I thinke I should greatlye offende if I should still reiect their so many petitions and most pitifull mournings Wee in England may thinke wee haue had great iewels of these disturbers and that for all their pretences of great learning and grauitie they were indeed of a very shallow iudgement that could finde nothing to stay their consciences vppon but what should bee sent to them from M. Beza It was a fond part for them to write so vnto him and a very insolent parte for him to take so much vpon him but in that hee hath published so much to the world in print their childishnes his owne pride I may terme it but I want a word to expresse my conceit Hereby it should seeme that if Beza had taken such a course as might well haue beseemed him it lay greatly in his power to haue very much quieted all those present troubles But that minde was farre from him and yet it would haue tended a great deale more to his owne credit For he giueth his sayd deerest beloued Brethren very vnwise vnlearned and vngodly councell although euer since that time according to their promise they haue very grauely builded their consciences vpon it And it was this in effect that if they could not enioy their ministerie without giuing their consents to the manner of making of our Ministers by the Bishops without the voyces of such a Presbiterie as he and his Schollers do dreame of without giuing their consents to the vse of the Cap and Surplise and to the manner of excommunication in the Church of England c. They should then giue place manifestae violentiae to manifest violence and liue as priuate men Let any man that list read ouer that Epistle also and then iudge indifferently by what light aduise this peeuish opposition hath beene continued amongst vs. After some time spent in these brables then they bethought them to fall more directly in hand with the Geneuian Discipline To this purpose certaine persons assembled themselues priuately together in London as I haue beene enformed namely Gilbye Sampson Leuer Field Wilcox and I wot not who besides And then it was agreed-vpon as it seemeth that an admonition which the now L. Archbishop of Canterburie did afterwards confute should be compiled and offred vnto the Parliament approching Anno. 1572. Against which time it was also prouided that Beza should write his letterr to a great man in this Land for and in the behalfe of the chiefe contents therof vz. for the admitting in England of the sayd Allobrogicall Discipline Which office you may be sure he performed very willingly Vnderstanding sayth he of an assembly of the Estate of England wherein there would bee dealing with matters of Religion I could not chose but write vnto you of that matter And so he proceedeth shewing that all men doe allow of our doctrine but not of our Discipline That except where there is pure doctrine there be also pure discipline meaning his own Geneuian Darling the Churches are litle the better and that therefore her Maiestie and her faythfull Councellors should procure the setting vp of this pure Discipline notwithstanding any difficulties whatsoeuer that might hinder it The same yeare also 1572. hee writ to the Queenes Maiestie an Epistle dedicatory before his annotations vpon the new Testament In the which although he doth confesse that her Highnes hath restored to this Lande the true worship of God yet he insinuateth that wee want a full instauration of Ecclesiasticall Discipline that our Temples are not fully repurged that some high places remayne as yet not abolished and wisheth that those wantes and blemishes might be supplyed and reformed meaning as I thinke hee would confesse if he were deposed that her Maiestie should conforme the present Apostolicall and most
Booke of Discipline were corrected altered and amended and there they did not onely perfect the said Booke but also did then and there as the examinate remembred voluntarily agree amongest thēselues that so many as would should subscribe to the saide Booke of Discipline after that time Well then at the last I trust we haue found out what they are agreede vppon and what they will stand vnto You see there hath beene much plotting amongest them and it is time a man would thinke that after such stirres meetinges conferences and Synods made in that behalfe they should be resolued at the last of the things they desire But now I come to my wonder before mentioned for so I esteeme of it Cartwright and the chiefest of those that haue beene lately in prison in one of their foresaide examinations in the Starre-chamber doe plainely auouch it vppon their oathes and so I belieue them that there are some thinges in theyr saide draught of Discipline wherein as yet they were neuer resolued What Is neither Geneua Fraunce nor Scotland able to satisfie them Haue they sought vnto them for theyr opinions and doe they disdaine to make them any aunswere Or else thinke they scorne to aske councell of any men but had rather then they woulde so much discredite themselues dwell still in their doubts Surely I would be very glad to know what doubts these were wherein as yet they were neuer resolued I haue desired diuerse to haue told me of them but they would not Notwithstanding I will tell you what I gesse they were not at randon as they say but vppon some good probability I met by chaunce with a paper of no mean mans among them wherein as I take it some of them at the least are expressed and they are these following Whether there ought to be Doctors in euery Church Whether the Doctors may administer the sacraments Whether there ought to be women Deacons in euery reformed Church Whether the Presbitery be not described too generally obscurely and very imperfectly Whether suspension may be proued by the worde of God Whether suspension can be proued to be a censure of the Church Whether the Elders ought not to be perpetuall as the Pastors are Whether men must stand to the sentence of the greater part of the Consistorie Whether mariages and spousals and things concerning them doe belong to the ministers Whether there should be sureties in Baptisme Whether there ought to be no abstaining from or noting of such a one as for disobedience to the Consistories admonition is in the way of excommunication Vnto these quaerees I could adde some other if I list What if Beza himselfe beginne to doubt as concerning his Discipline or at the least beginne to finde some defectes in it What if he desire to be caput Episcoporum the head of all Bishops within his prouince what if hee would haue the presidentship of euery Synode to be a continuall office But hereof afterwardes in the chapter In the meane while I could wishe with all my heart that those who are wise would throughly consider howe this Church of England and the state of the whole Realme her Maiestie the high Court of Parliament the present forme of our Ecclesiasticall gouernement with the lawes and orders thereunto appertaining and generally all her highnesse dutifull and louing subiects haue been vsed by these so distracted so presumptuous and so notorious rash-pates in that after so many admonitions supplications petitions deprauations inuections humble motions draughts platformes demonstrations and what not which haue bred alreadie a million of great inconueniences and mischiefes Now being pressed vpon their othes they are constrained to acknowledge that as yet they are not resolued in all pointes what they woulde haue If the state had been as rashe in their grauntes as they haue been shamelesse in their demaunds peraduenture the Realme and Church of England by this time might haue been in some such like case as if sondry reportes be true there be some in the world It may be heere obiected peraduenture that supposing the testimony alleadged for the doubtes mentioned were sufficient yet they are but about matters of small importance whereas in points of substance they doe all concurre and are agreed together Whether the doubts which I shewed vnto you be of any importance or not I leaue it to your consideration Indeede if a man may say the truth without their offence there is nothing which they holde concerning this Allobrogicall deuise wherein we do withstand them that is of any good importance of substance But for any agreement or resolution in any of the partes of their platforme whether of substance almost or not of substance you shall not finde it I assure you amongst them as in the processe following it wil appeare And I am of opinion that they will disagree euery day more and more vntil by triall of their former rashnesse they shalbe contented to embrace the present forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement in England and from the bottome of their heartes thanke almightie God for it CHAP. V. With what distraction vncertaintie diuersitie of iudgementes pretence is made that the Geneua Discipline is of very great antiquitie AS I haue said in the second chapter if my life lay vppon it I could not finde that there was euer in the world anie such platforme of Discipline as is now vrged by the patrones and defenders of it before maister Caluin deuised it and with much trouble set it vp at the last in Geneua I know it is said nowe a dayes that it is of a farre greater antiquitie And if I were not otherwise by reading setled I might peraduenture be ouercarried that way with their pretences The Herroldes at armes they say can do verie much in a mans pedigree Though peraduenture his Gentilitie be not of fiftie yeares standing yet if neede require William Conquerours time is nothing they will fetch it from Adam You shall haue the first finder out Bathes in England so gentilized And euen suche a like course is taken for the Geneua Discipline She must needes be a Lady of an auncient stocke And therefore her feed Herroldes do take great paines in her behalfe Such chopping and changing such clayming and disclaiming of kinreds such coating intercoating quartering of her armes with this great personage in that countrey and with another as great in this countrey you shall rarely finde I am verely perswaded in all the auncient recordes and rules of Herrauldry To leape ouer a thousand and fiue hundred yeares at the first skippe ouer almost two thousand yeares at the next and in a manner to Noahs Arke at the third is but a small matter with them There was neuer poore gentlewomans credite more sought to be set foorth with the smoakie images of her worm-aten auncestors then hers is The Geneua platforme to be reckoned so late a deuise as that maister Caluin should be the first author of it they cannot abide it
long they account it since it was in any good reparation saith plainely not as Cartwright affirmeth that it flourished most in Constantines time but thus we must needs confesse in deede that this gouernement of the Church fell to decaye long before the Councell of Nice But yet one step further after maister Cartwrights dubling where speaking in his second booke of the corruption as he tearmeth it that one Bishop had a preheminēce giuen him aboue other ministers which he cannot deny to haue been an ordinance in Alexandria from Saint Marks time c. he saith from the first day wherein this deuise was established corruption grew in the Church c. And the first resistance by any setled Church against that corruption was by those that abolished that deuise of man and receaued the order in the Apostles times touchinge the equality of Ministers as the Bohemians Merindols the Churches in Germany and Geneua See what carieers are here From Geneua to the Apostles times and thence backe againe to Geneua at a leape From Saint Markes time till the time here limited the pretended Presbitery with all the complements thereof as nowe it is vrged hath lyen alla-mort No one setled Church that is in Cartwrightes language no one particular parish in all the world for a 1500. yeares did euer account it vnlawfull for a Bishop to haue authority aboue other Ministers Or thus there hath not bin vpō the face of the earth within the space of a thou sand fiue hundred yeares so much as in any one parish such an equality amongest the Ministers of the worde of God as is now pretended to be in the Presbitery at Geneua and so consequently in all that tyme not suche a Presbitery Or thus within the compasse of the Heauens there hath not beene one Church for aboue 1500 yeares that euer dealt so with Bishops as of late they haue beene dealt withall especially in Geneua and in some other such places as haue followed therein the example of that Citty Well hitherto then you see that since we came from Geneua vz the yeare 1541. the men themselues that talke so much of their Geneua platforme cannot finde it flourishing in the daies of all the auncient fathers nor in all the world for the space of aboue 1500. yeares The fathers alas some of them were but simple men some were ambitious and some were ignoraunt They poore men had small experience and lesse pollicie They wanted iudgement and zeale either to discerne or to keepe in her virginitie this gallaunt Dalila They chopped and chaunged the institution of Christ at their pleasure Any examples that shall be fet from them are very dangerous They were but men But if you will leape ouer all them and come to Geneua there you shall finde wise men learned men humble men zealous men nay rather Angelles then men there you shall see the glorious rankes of Elders sitting vppon their thrones the worshipfull company of Deacons attending vpon the contributions the well Disciplined multitude bringing in the price of their lands and goods and powring all downe at the Deacons feete there Christ carrieth hys owne scepter in Bezaes hand there this pretended holy Discipline so disgraced by the fathers so corrupted and so defaced there she raigneth there shee flourisheth and there she is magnified The Church of Geneua saith a good fellow is the purest reformed Church forsooth in Christendome Againe Geneua is the chiefest place of true comfort in Earth Now what is here said of Geneua and her Ministers except you extend it to all other Churches and Ministers that follow the Geneua platforme they will be angry with you and thinke themselues as I suppose to be very greatly disgraced But I will leaue them clawing one of another and come to the Apostles times to see if the Geneua Church-gouernment may be found out amongest them For either there or no where The Apostle Saint Iohn liued much longer then any of the rest of the Apostles did Saint Ierome saith that he liued after Christes passion threescore eight yeares So as the Apostles times after the largest accompt are not further to be extended Now as Baronius collecteth out of Eusebius Saint Marke was Bishop of Alexandria about 19. yeares and died about the thirtith yeare after Christes ascention So as Saint Iohn out-liued Saint Marke some 38. yeares After this reckoning if the Church of Alexandria should haue departed from Christes institution and so cleane haue disgraced the glory of this fained Eldership when there was a Bishop made there according to Cartwrightes assertion then before wee can finde the Geneua platforme in such perfection as it is in that Citie we must cut of the said 19. yeares wherein Saint Marke had departed so grossely from Christes ordinance from the before mentioned 68. yeares the full extent of the apostles time which being done you haue but eleuen yeares wherein there is any hope for the pretended puritie and practise of the Geneua Discipline to shadow or shrowd her selfe Yea but where Saint Ierome saith that there were Bishops in Alexandria from Saint Markes time c. Cartwright hath this shift vz that the wordes from Saint Marks time may be taken exclusiuely to shut out Saint Marke Whereby to saue Saint Markes credite that an Euangelist should not be thought to haue broken the necke of Christes gouernement he woulde haue this great defection to haue been presently after Saint Markes time and so hee excludeth Saint Marke after the Geneua fashion quite and cleane out of his Bishopricke and will needes suppose that hee was neuer Bishop contrary to Saint Ieromes expresse wordes in sondrie places and contrarie to the full consent and agreement of all the auncient fathers and of all the ecclesiasticall histories But be it as hee would haue it yet let the reckoning be newly cast vp againe and it falleth out that this supposed departing from Christes institution was about thirtie and eight yeares before S. Iohn died Which standeth hardly with the reputation of the Apostles times in my opinion But that is no great matter We know saith the authour of the foresaide booke that was sent vs from Scotland Diotrephes to haue been in the Church euen in the Apostles times and we are assured he could neuer be gotten out of it since the first houre that he set his footing therein And therefore we cannot greatly maruaile though euen in their time there had been a diuerse gouernment from this of the Lordes appointment which we labour for For euen in the Apostles times the mistery of iniquitte beganne to worke And what will they say of Saint Iohn the Apostle and of all the rest of them that out-liued Saint Marke as they haue done of all the auncient fathers was there so small intelligence amongst those most prouident and wise holy men that there could be so notorious a defection in Alexandria so famous a Citie and they neuer to heare of it Or
men had offered in the beginning to the Bishops to performe al due obedience vnto them if they would be content to reforme religion they were now againe constrained to make the same knowen more generally both to the Emperour and to all the sayd Princes still offering for their parts as much as they had done before and that if they would but cease to impose vppon them their intollerable burdens of single life of mens vnlawfull and wicked traditions which they did further specifie and to forbidde them to doe those things which God commaunded they should doe that then they would with all their hearts most willingly yeeld vnto their Episcopall iurisdiction and to the restoring of the same where it had beene abolished Vouchsafe I pray you to heare their owne testimonies to this purpose You shall thereby well perceaue that if they were now aliue in England and should finde their names so vsed as they are against the gouernment of our Bishops they would take it in very ill part and be heartily sory for it Thus the authors of the Augustane confession and all the learned men that haue subscribed thereunto in which nūber Caluin is cōprehended haue professed touching this matter The Bishops might easily retain the obedience due vnto them if they vrged vs not to keepe those traditions which wee cannot keepe with a good Conscience They impose a single life and will receaue none that will not swear neuer to teach the pure doctrine of the Gospell Againe we haue ofte protested that we doe greatly approoue the Ecclesiastical pollicy and degrees in the Church as much as lieth in vs doe desire to conserue them We doe not mislike the authoritie of Bishops so that they would not compell vs to doe against Gods commaundement Furthermore we doe here protest and wee would haue it so recorded that we would willingly preserue the Ecclesiasticall and Canonicall pollicy if the Bishops would cease to tyrannise ouer our Churches This our minde or desire shall excuse vs with all posterity both before God and all nations that it may not be imputed vnto vs that the authority of Bishops is ouerthrowen by vs. Besides I would to God saith Melanchthon I woulde to God it lay in me to restore the gouernment of Bishops For I see what a manner of Church we shall haue the Ecclesiasticall pollicy being dissolued Video postea multo intolerabiliorem futuram tyrannidem quà m antea vnquam fuit I doe see that hereafter will grow vp a greater tiranny in the Church then euer there was before Moreouer mira dissipatio erit Ecclesiarum ad posteritatem c. There will be a wonderfull confusion of Churches left to our posterity except they may now bee ioyned together againe and haue certain Bishops who may be enforced to gouerne the church and looke vnto them more diligently then in times past they haue beene looked vnto Againe by what right or law may we dissolve the Ecclesiasticall pollicy if the Bishops will grant vs that that in reason they ought to graunt Et vt liceat certe non expedit And if it were lawfull for vs so to doe yet surely it were not expedient Luther was euer of this opinion whom many for no other cause I see doe loue but for that they thinke they haue cast off their Bishops by means of him and haue obtained a liberty minimè vtilem ad posteritatem which will not be profitable for our posterity For tell me what estate will the Churches be in hereafter if all the olde orders be abolished and that there bee no certaine rulers ordained To the same effect also saith George Prince Anhalt Earle of Ascaine Lord of Sewest and Brewburge vtinam c. I would to God that those which carry the names and titles of Bishops would shew themselues to be Bishops in deede I wishe they would teach nothing that is disagreeable to the Gospell but rule their Churches thereby O quam libenter c. Oh how willingly and with what ioy of hart would we receaue them for our Bishops reuerence them obay them and yeeld vnto them their iurisdiction and ordination c. Id quod nos semper Dominus Lutherus etiam c which we alwaies and Maister Luther both in words and in his writings very often haue professed And Caluin himselfe writing to Cardinal Sadolet concerning the course that had beene held at Geneua as touching the reformation of Religion and in excuse thereof against his challenge doth shew himselfe to be of the same minde he was of when he subscribed to the said confession of Augusta professing that for his part he could haue beene well content that the Bishop there should haue kept his authority and iurisdiction still so that he woulde haue yeelded to the bannishment of Poperye For thus hee writeth Talem nobis Hierarchiam si exhibeant c. If they bring vnto vs such an Hierarchy or Priestly gouernment wherin the Bishops shall so rule as that they refuse not to submit themselues to Christ that they so depend vppon him as theyr only head and be content to referre themselues to him in which Priestlye gouernment let them so keepe brotherly society amongest themselues that they be knitte together by no other rule then by the truth then surely if there shall be any that shall not submitte themselues to that Hierarchy or Priestly gouernment reuerently and with the greatest obedience that may be I confesse there is no kinde of Anathema or curse or casting to the diuell whereof they are not worthy And againe in the same Epistle he vseth these wordes following tending to the great commendation of the authority of Bishops Statue quaeso c. Sette before your eyes I pray you the ancient face of the church as it was amongest the Grecians in Chrys. and Basils times and as it was amongest the Latinists when Cyprian Ambrose and Augustine liued and then behold the ruins of that face as now they are retained in the Church of Rome And there will appeare as great difference betweene them as the Prophets describe vnto vs betweene the excellent estate of the Church that flourished vnder Dauid and Salomon and that Church which in Zedechia and Ioachims dates was fallen into all kinde of superstition and had defiled altogether the purity of the worship of God This Epistle was written by Caluin to the Cardinal 1539. at such time as being remoued from Geneua he remayned at Strasburgh where hauing great acquaintance with Melanchthon Bucer and diuerse other learned men hee carried himselfe in such sort as was greatly to their likings Insomuch as whilest he remained at Strasburgh the Colloquies at Wormes and Ratisbone being appointed by the Emperour for the compounding of controuersies in Religion the learned men that were sent thither for the Protestants reckonned Caluin a meete man to take thither with them Which I thought good to obserue because hereby it will further
appeare what minde and iudgement Caluin still carried concerning Bishops so as they would admit the reformation of Religion contrary to Cartwrights shameles assertion that Caluin would haue shakē at the name of an Archbishop and haue trembled at the office of a Bishop For in the articles agreede vppon at that time by the saide learned men Caluin being amongest them for a reconciliation in the behalfe of the Protestants thus they declared theyr iudgements of this matter Vt omnia ordine fierent in Ecclesia c. That all things might be done orderly in the Church according to S. Pauls rule c. For the auiding of Schismes there was a profitable ordination that a Bishop should be chosen out of many Priests who should rule the Church by teaching the Gospel and by retaining the Discipline qui praeesset ipsis Presbyteris and who should gouerne the Priestes themselues Afterward also there were degrees made of Archbishops aboue them of Patriarches c. These ordinations if those that gouerne do theyr duty as preach ouersee the doctrine and manners of their Churches correct errors and vice practise Ecclesiasticall censures c. are profitable to preserue the vnity of the Church And againe in their additions to the sayde Articles As concerning ordination we especially approoue the auncient custome of the Church that those that are to be ordained should first bee tried instructed and vppon the publicke testimony of some godly and learned men c. admitted into the Ministery This difficult and necessary charge for the Church it is to bee wished reformatiō being made that the Bishops would take vpon them And we heare that our learned men haue expressely so yeelded ordination vnto those Bishops si praecedat reformatio if first there may be a reformation Likewise also in another treatise that was then made by Maister Bucer with the aduise of the said learned men and offered to the Emperour it is thus written Annitendum est c. We must indeuour that that forme and distribution of Ecclesiasticall gouernement which the Cannons doe prescribe to Bishops and Metropolitanes be restored and kept And after in the same Treatise Concerning names and titles and all those things wherewithall that externall power and dignity ought to be adorned and established and the lawfull obedience of such as be vnder them confirmed it will easily be agreed vpon Much more passed in those Colloquies and treatises to this purpose Caluin himselfe as it hath beene sayd being then present and in company whith those learned men And the reasons that moued them so to offer agree and protest at that time in this behalfe I thinke besides the former reasons mentioned were these and such like which Bucer a principall man then amongest them hath else-where sette down When speaking of Bishops and Metropolitanes and of their authoritye ouer the Churches and ministers within their Dioces and Prouinces hee saith thus Hoc consentiebat legi Christs fiebatque ex iure corporis Christi This was agreeable to the law of Christ and was done by the authority of the body of Christ. And in another place I am ex perpetua c. Now by the perpetuall obsexuation of all Churches euen from the Apostles times we doe see that it seemed good to the holy Ghost that amongest Priests to whom the procuration of Churches was chiefly cōmitted there should be one that should haue the care or charge of diuerse Churches and the whole Ministery committed vnto him and by reason of that charge he was aboue the rest and therfore the name of Bishop was attributed peculiarly vnto these chief rulers of Churches Nay he goeth further and sayth that in the Apostles times one of the Priests or Pastors was chosen and ordained to be the Captaine and Prelate ouer the rest who went before the rest and had the cure of Soules and the administration of the Episcopall office especially in the highest degree And this he proueth by the example of S. Iames Act 15. after concludeth in this sort The like ordination hath beene perpetually obserued in other Churches likewise as farre as we may learne out of all the Ecclesiasticall histories and the most auncient Fathers as Tertullian Cyprian Irenaeus Eusebius and others Hereby then it may appear vnto you what was thought of Bishops of their authority by the learned men of those times who sought as narrowly into that calling what was lawfull and what was vnlawfull and were aswell able to iudge thereof I may speake it I trust without offence as either Carwright or all his complices There were some busie bodies indeede a little before or about the time of the Colloquies mētioned who were very angry with the sayd learned men especially with Melanchthon for yeelding so much concerning Bishops Of whom he himselfe writeth in this sort Hoc malè habet scilicet quosdam immoderatiores c. This forsooth doth anger some immoder at men that the iurisdiction and pollicy Ecclesiastical is restored interpreting the same to be the restitution of the Romish souerainty And thus also to Luther you do not belieue into what hatred I am growen with them of Noricum and with certain others for the restitution of iurisdiction vnto Bishops Ita de regno suo non de Euangelio dimicant socij nostri Our fellowes doe so fight for their own kingdome and not for the Gospell Camerarius to the same purpose in like maner maketh this report Audiui quosdā c. I haue heard some accuse Phillip in that respect inhumanissimè most barbarously when one of them said that if he had beene hired with a great summe of money by the Romane faction to haue defended their state he could not in his opinion haue dealt more effectually for them then he did in maintaining of Bishops and that Phillip was not to be accounted a Patrone of his owne part but of his aduersaries and that a chiefe and a singular Patrone c. These things diuers other more slanderous they vttered without shame quorum magnopere postea paenituit puduit plaerosque Whereof many afterwards repented and were ashamed of them But notwithstanding all these and such like slaunderous hare-braines the grauer sort the best learned the godliest and the wisest men amongest the Protestants that then liued did follow and proceede as Phillip had begun euen accordingly as before I haue mentioned And since that time for any thing I can find to the contrary although the bishops still cleauing to the Pope and opposing themselues against all kinde of reformation further then it pleased them were thereupon euen of necessitie reiected as before I haue signified yet as soone as the saide learned men grewe to be able to establish their churches in any reasonable maner they ordained amongest themselues the very same offices in effect throughout the most of the reformed Churches in Germanie chaunging onely the old Greeke names as
some Prophets some Euangelistes some Pastors and Doctors for the repayring of the Saintes for the worke and the Ministerie and for the edification of the body of Christ. And againe vppon these wordes A Bishop must be vnreproueable c. hee meeteth with the common obiection for the equalitie of Ministers because euery Minister is called a Bishope sometimes in the Scriptures and sayth that the word Bishoppe notwithstanding it be oftentimes vsed by S. Paule for euery pastor of the church of God who haue a kinde of ouersight ouer theyr seuerall charges and so may suo modo after a sort bee called Superintendents and Bishops c. yet heere it signifieth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Primarios illos ecclesiarum pastores c. Those chiefe pastors to whom the ouersight of the liues and manners of the other ministers is committed whom according to the force of the Greeke appellation we in these dayes do call Superintendents Hitherto then it appeareth as I take it what is both the practise of the reformed Churches in Germany and the iudgemēt also of the chiefe learned men there since Melanchthon Bucers times concerning Bishops or Superintendents with their preheminence charge and authoritie Some there are indeed beyond the seas who followinge the immoderate proude and slaunderous humor that Melanchthon Camerarius spake of before haue vttered their great mislike of the Germaine Superintendents and that with lesse modestie a great deale then doth well become them In reproofe of one of them Gerlachius a learned man of Tubing writeth in this sort Licet titulos ordinum c. Although thou beholdest with disdaine as it were from aboue the titles of orders after the fashion of hypocrites and of the Anabaptistes yet with a vaine perswasion of knowledge foolish arrogancye whereby thou contemnest our countrymen in respect of thy selfe and dost chalenge especiall knowledge to thee and thy fellowes onely Plus turges quà m omnes Doctores et Superintendentes nostri Thou swellest more with pride then all our Doctors and Superintendents And what commeth into thy minde that thou shouldest cauill at the degrees of ministers as though it were not lawfull to ordayne such degrees for the building and gouernment of the Church Did not God himselfe in the old Testament appoint a chiefe Bishop Priests and Leuits And in the new Testament gaue hee not some Apostles some Prophets some Euangelists and some Pastors and Doctors Had not the primatiue church accordingly Bishops Priestes and Deacons And againe a little after in the same booke whilest thou a proude man girdest so often at the title of Superintendent I affirme that thou reprehendest the Apostle Paule himselfe who hath giuen this name to a distinct order of ministers of the church And our Auncestors following this Apostle haue thought it meete that for the edifying of the church and for orders sake there should be certaine Superintendentes that is ouerseers not onely of the flocke but of the nisters in like manner Thus farre Gerlachius who if hee were in England knewe into what an extremitie the like persons are growen vnto in the same case amongst vs It would peraduenture moue him For nowe there is no remedye with our ministers of that consorte but they must all bee equall They cannot endure it no the meanest of them to haue anye of their owne coate their Superior They are fallen into the contradiction of Chors and doe tell both Moyses and Aaron that they take to much vpon them All Pastores saye they are and ought to be of equall authoritie in their seuerall Parishes and no one to haue power ouer another Euery parish Priest with them must bee a Bishop and haue as full iurisdiction in his Parochiall dioces as it is lawful for any Bishop in the world either to haue or to execute For orders sake they are content that in their Classicall prouinciall or Nationall assemblies some one minister bee chosen from amongst thēselues to be the moderator for the propounding of matters gathering of voices c. But his office preheminence is to continew no longer then whilest those assemblies last Otherwise or for any further authoritie either of Bishops or Archbishops whether they haue abolished popery reformed religiō maintained the gospell abandoned superstitiō or whatsoeuer they haue done or yealded vnto they holde it altogether vnlawfull do raile against them all against their callings and against all that defend them and that with more then heathenish scurrilitie Cartwright is the chiefe man that began this course in Englande and you shall see howe pretily his schollers follow him Archbishops Bishops sayth he are new ministeries neuer ordayned by God The first step to this kind of Bishopricke beganne at Alexandria and not at Syon The name and office of an Archbishop is vnlawfull his function is of the earth and so can do no good but much harme in the church he is a knobbe or some lumpe of flesh which being no member of the body doth burthen it and disgrace it Whereupon foorth come his schollers crying out amaine that Archbishops Bishops are superfluous members of the body of Christ and that they mayme and deforme his body making it by that meanes a monster That they are vnlawfull false bastardly gouernors of the church That they are the ordinances of the Diuell That they are in respect of theyr places enemies of God that they are petye Popes pety Antichristes Bishops of the Diuell and incarnate Diuels that none euer defended this gouernmēt of our Bishops but Papists and such as were infected with Popish errours That the Lawes that mayntaine the Archbishops and Bishops are no more to bee accounted of then the Lawes that mayntaine Steves and that the true church of God ought to haue no more to do with them and their Synagogues then with the Synagogue of Sathan All which Consistorian and modest assertions aswell for the equalitie of Ministers as against the calling of Bishops being ioyned together are wholy opposite to all that which hitherto I haue writt̄e touching this matter Euen as though they should haue cast downe their gauntlets proclaymed an vtter defiance to all the Churches that euer were established in the world for much aboue three thousande yeares the Churches whilest the law continued the churches in Christs time the Churches in his Apostles times the Churches throughout all christendome for a thousand fiue hundred yeares against all the generall Councels all the auncient fathers all ecclesiasticall histories against al the chiefe reformers of religon in this latter age against all the learned mens iudgements before mentioned and against all the reformed churches whersoeuer in christ̄edome that eyther haue BB. or Superint̄edents God forgiue th̄e this great sin of pride presumption deliuer th̄e out of the number of those of wh̄o it is said that their mouthes speake proud things that they dispise gouernment that they
stand in their own c̄oceit that they feare not to speak euill of th̄e that are in dignitie authoritye likewise of those things that they know not that they vse swelling words of vanitie that they beguile vnstable soules that they seperate them selues from other and that they haue not the spirit It will not surely serue their turnes one day to saye that in such their wilfull opposing of themselues as it were against heauen in such their outragious rayling and bitternesse against so holy a calling they followed certaine of their bretheren the ministers in Scotland or in the lowe countries or in Geneua For in this vaine they haue exceeded them all especially them of the two countries last mentioned Maister Caluin although after his restitution to Geneua he might be thought to haue had some harder opinion of Bishopps then he had before yet if you compare him with these fellowes you would thinke him an especiall fauourer and defender of them He could well enough indure it◠to vse these honorable tearmes to Archbishop Cranmer Illustrissime domine clarissime presul et mihi ex animo reuerende commendinge his authoritie his wisdome and his integritie desiringe him to put them all in practise for the benefit of the Church And in his letter to the King of Polonia he sheweth himselfe to be far from Cartwrights minde vz. that the Popes authoritie is more necessary ouer all Churches then the authoritie of an Archbishopp ouer a prouince and that neither of them can discharge so great an office For there writinge against the pope he propoundeth to the Kinges consideration the auncient forme of church-gouernment by Archbishops tearminge it a moderate honor meaninge therby as I take it the preheminence and authoritie which Archbishops then had as beinge limited for the execution of it within the compasse of mans power wheras the Popes pretended authoritie beinge of so large an extent as comprehending the whole world could not possibly be executed by any man liuinge But yet I am short of M. Caluins moderatiō in this matter for discoursing of the state of the auncient churches before the time of popery of Bishops Archbishops and patriarches their authority and superiority in their circuites dioces and prouinces he vseth these modest speeches Although the Bishops of those times did set foorth many canons wherin they might be thought to expresse more then is expressed in the scriptures yet they framed their whole gouernement according to the onely rule of gods word with that caution vt facilè videas nihil fere hac parte habuisse a verbo Dei alienum that you may easily see there was nothing almost in this behalfe disagreeing from the word of God If there may be found any imperfection in the orders which they made yet they indeuoured with a sincere studie to keepe the institution of God from the which nō multum aberrarunt they swarued not much And a little after the elders that were ministers of the worde did choose one from amongst them-selues in euery Cittie vnto whom especially they gaue the title of Bishop Ne ex aequalitate vt fieri solet dissidia nascerentur least by aequalitie as it vsually happeneth dissentions should arise As touching the beginning of this order he agreeth with S. Ierome that it hath continued in the Church since S. Markes time And saith he that euery prouince had her Archbishop that also in the Nicene Councel Patriarches were appointed who were in order and degree aboue Archbishops Id ad disciplinae conseruationem pertinebat It did pertaine to the preseruation of discipline But his conclusion is yet more full and differeth but a little if it differ at all from that which the learneder sort in England doe now maintaine with all antiquitie For speaking of the forme of gouernment so framed as is said in the councel of Nice he vseth these wordes Si rem intuemur reperiemus veteres Episcopos non aliam regendae ecclesiae formam voluisse fingere ab ea quam Deus verbo suo praescripsit if we looke to the forme of gouernment it selfe we shall finds that the auncient Bishoppes would not deuise another forme of churchregiment differing from that which God hath prescribed in his word And thus you may perceaue what great difference there is betwixt our mens spirites and Maister Caluins their outrage and his modestie their pride and his humilitie their rashnes ignorance and giddines and his sobrietie learning and iudgment The forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment agreed vpon in the councell of Nice differeth not from that which God hath prescribed and who then but men that haue shamelesse foreheads dare so incounter it But it may peraduenture be sayd that howsoeuer Caluin did carrie himselfe in this cause yet Beza is of an other opinion Indeed he is so but it turneth more more dayly to his own discredit He succeeded Maister Caluin in place but neither in his learning nor in all his vertues And I do attribute it vnto his want of iudgment that he hath shewed himselfe such a busie body where he had nothing to doe It is chiefly he that hath set the pretended reformers in this whole land so much a gogge against Bishops by his secret letters and other disordered writinges of incouragement vnto them And yet forsooth he can write to other men and pretend the quite contrarie Consider the processe following and then if I be too blame thus to write of him tell me of it In one of his epistles dated 1570. he affirmeth that Archbishops Primates are a shadowe and image of the policy of Roome that they are petty tyrantes in respect of the Pope and that although the names be neuer soe auntient yet it ought to haue beene enquired whether it were lawful to bring them into the church c. It had beene a maruailous beneficiall matter to all posteritie that Beza had beene the commaunder at Geneua in the times of the Primitiue church that so the learend graue fathers of those ages might haue inquired this point of him knowen his pleasure In the yeare 1572. it seemed good vnto him as it hath beene said before to write his letter into this Iland to Knox the reformer in Scotland at what time the Bishops there had receaued the Gospell at the least many of them as I thinke though it woulde not serue their turne to keepe them in their places In which letter amongst many other good consistorian documents hee writeth thus But I would haue you and the other brethren to remember that which is before your eies as Bishops brought foorth the Papacy so false or counter set Bishops the reliques of Popery will bring in Epicurisme They that desire the churches good let them take heede of this pestilence And seeing you haue put that plague in Scotland to flight quaeso c. I hartily pray you that you neuer suffer it againe vnder any pretence or color of keepinge
of vnitie which pretence deceaued the auncient fathers euen many of the best of them But least any man shoulde imagine that I doe Beza iniury in applyinge his wordes to the purpose for the which I bring them and that he writ not thus against such Bishops as did imbrace and maintaine the true religion which we all professe but against Popish Bishops Cartwright him-selfe wil cleare both me and Bezaes meaning For he a man of the same spirit hath brought both those places and vrged them for Bezaes iudgment against our Bishops nowe in England Beza saith he is so farre from allowing Archbishops that our kind of Bishops he calleth counterset Bishoppes reliques of Poperie such as will bring in Epicurisme and soe he proceedeth on with the rest of Bezaes wordes to Knox as before they are set downe But I shall not needed to labour much vpon this point Beza will himselfe vouch safe you shall see to deliuer his mind as plainly as one would wish In his treatise that he writ into Scotland about the yere 1579. of three sortes of Bishops mentioned in the third Chapter vz. the Bishops of God of man and of the deuill He writeth thus by no good direction I am sure of that ancient and the most godly Councell that euer was helde since the Apostles times vz. the honourable councell of Nice The Nicene Councell pretending ancient custome confirmed the patriarchship and made a way for the horrible papacy of Rome sliding on and vnderlaid the seate for the harlot that sitteth vpon seauen hils And afterward where M. Caluin spake as you haue heard of the forme of Church gouernment which was then concluded vppon that it differed not from that which God had prescribed Beza is bold if Field his translator haue dealt well with him to call it a deuillish Oligarchie making the fathers of the said Councell to be the deuisers or at least the aduancers of the Bishops of the deuil Vnder which member of his diuision hee bringeth all the Bishops in Europe excepting his owne parochiall Bishops notwithstanding anie reformation of religion whatsoeuer And therefore aduiseth all godly Princes that at once they abolish them Neither is hee in effectanie thing more gratious or bountifull to his second sort of Bishops the Bishops of men But before you heare his censure of them you shall vnderstand how he describeth such a kinde of Bishop The Bishop of man sayth he brought into the Church by the alone wisedome of man besides the expresse word of God is a certaine power to one certaine pastor aboue his other fellowes yet limited with certaine orders or rules prouided against tyrannie They which did beare this office of Bishop are called Bishops in regard of their fellowe Elders and the whole Cleargie as watch-men set ouer the Cleargie And I maruell why the ministers after the Apostles time shoulde not haue as greate neede of such watch-men as they had when the Apostles themselues liued who were then their watch-men by all their confessions But nowe let vs see what Beza will doo with these kinde of Bishops Surely by his aduise down they must as wel as the former or to vse his translators phrase they must bee chased awaie And his chiefe reasons are these First because that vnlesse this roote also be plucked vp it wil come to passe that the same fruit will sprout and bud forth againe Secondly for that Christ as he falsely supposeth hath shut this superiority out of the church And thirdly because as hee saith Where the remnants of this gouernment by a few are not cleane taken awaie the word of the Lord is openly hindered Hee meaneth I thinke his counterfet platforme of discipline for the inordinate vrging whereof some few disordered persons haue beene put to silence But what hath he to do with that You see then the mans boldnesse and with what presumption hee aduanceth himselfe against all the learned Fathers against all the generall Councels against all the flourishing Churches that haue beene in the worlde since Christs time against the iudgementes of all the chiefe learned men almost of ourage that which is most with him euen against the iudgement of his superior master Caluin and you see also the pit and smoke from whence the Locustes amongest vs of late yeeres came that with their venemous libels and railing discourses haue infected the harts of many good men with a dislike of the holy calling of our Bishops That some haue been mis-lead heeretofore with the violent streame of this faction I wonder not But for mine owne parte I shall little pittie anie of them heereafter if when they shall see these things they will notwithstanding yeld ouer themselues to bee seduced by so grosse so palpable so childish illusions but especially if they shall heare Beza himselfe begin to alter his mind and to sing a new song I will not affirme much for his alteration but when hee hath opened himselfe a little further vnto you account of him as God shall moue your harts Surely he will not proue a man in my opinion for anie to build their faith vppon In his confessions he once affirmed that the constitutions of the auncient fathers concerning Bishops Metrapolitanes and Patriarches their seates limites and authoritie were made optimo zelo with the best zeale It was then I trust a zeale ioined with knowledge And hauing both such zeale and such knowledge did they agree in the Councell of Nice vppon such a deuillish Oligarchie Of late yeres he hath written two or three Letters to the now Lord Archbishop of Canterburie with an other manner of stile then I suppose hee woulde haue done if he had thought him to haue been the Bishop of the deuil For thus he indorsed them Reuerendissimo viro et in Christo patri Domino Archiepiscopo Caentuariensi serenissimae Reginae Conciliario et totius Angliae primati To the most reuerend man father in Christ the Lord Archbishop of Canterburie Councellor to the Queenes maiestie and primate of all England And one of them was thus subscribed Amplitudini tuae addictissimi in Christo Theodorus Beza A. Sadeel nomine totius nostri caetus nec non totius Ecclesiae Geneuensis Most addicted to your greatnes Th. B.A.S. in the name of our assembly and also of the whole Church of Geneua But it is of especial consideration that hee writeth in the other Letter It should seeme that the sayd now Lord Archbishop of Canterbury hath written somwhat vnto Beza as concerning his ouer-busying of himselfe about our Church without anie lawfull commission And in defence of himselfe he answereth thus Caeterum reuerende mi Domine But my reuerend Lorde in that you thought it meet to moue vs in your Letters that wee should thinke well of that kingdome and likewise of your Church and the gouernment thereof surely it troubled both mee and Sadeel in some sort as beeing greatly afraide least anie sinister rumours are brought to
you of vs or least those things which we haue written of Ecclesiasticall policie properly against that Antichristian tyrannie as necessitie required are taken by some in that sense as if euer we had meant to compel to our order those churches that thinke otherwise then we doo of it and the gouernors of them agreeing els with vs in the truth of doctrine agreeable to the word of God and that except they followed our order we accounted otherwise of them then their godlines and dignitie and mutuall brotherhood doth require c. Farre be this arrogancie from vs. Quis vllum nobis in vllam Ecclesiam imperium tribuit Who doth giue vs authority ouer anie church Far be it from vs that we should thinke so the substantiall matters be kept there ought nothing to be graunted to antiquitie nothing to custome nothing to the circumstances of places times and persons c. Againe in his booke against D. Sarauia hauing spoken of the tyrannie of Popish Bishops hee maketh this exception Neque tamen But wee doo not therefore accuse all Archbishops and Bishops now so called of tyranie For what arrogancie were that Nay so as they doo imitate the examples of the olde holy Bishops and indeuor as much as they can to reforme the house of God so miserably deformed according to the rule of Gods word why may we not acknowledge al of them now so called Archbishops and Bishops obey them and honor them with all reuerence So far we are from that which some obiect vnto vs most falsly and most impudently as though we tooke vppon vs to prescribe to anie Church in anie place our examples to be followed like vnto those vnwise men who account wel of nothing but of that which they doo themselues And to the same effect a little before If now the reformed Churches of England being vnderpropped with the authoritie of Bishoppes and Archbishops do continue as this hath happened to that Church in our memorie that she hath had men of that calling not onely most notable martyrs of God but also excellent pastors and doctors Fruatur sane ista singulari dei benificentia quae vtinam illi sit perpetua Let her truly inioy this singular blessing of God which I wish may be perpetuall vnto her Furthermore it should seeme that Zanchius as moderate and learned a man as euer fauoured the pretended Elderships was appointed some 12 or 16. yeres since to draw a confâ—ssion of religion for the Churches of France others as Melanchthon had done the Augustan confession for Germanie Accordingly hee drew it and in the same speaking of Bishops he vseth these wordes Non improbamius patres c. Wee doo not disalow the fathers in that after a diuers waie of dispensing the word and gouerning the Church they multiplied diuerse orders of Ministers seeing it was lawfull for them so to do as it is vnto vs and seeing it appeareth that they did it for honest causes appertaining at that time to the order decencie and edification of the Church And in the next article Hac ratione c. By this reason vz. that the nurseries of dissentions and of schismes may be taken away wee thinke that these thinges which were ordained before the Councell of Nice concerning Archbishops nay as touching the foure Patriarches may be excused and defended When this booke was perused and this clause found in it then forsoth a deuise was had for the staying of it vnder pretence that now it was thought more meete that there should be a harmonie made of all the confessions of diuers churches But Zanchius himselfe maketh this the chiefe cause if I vnderstand him why his booke dyd mislike some of them for that hee had written as before is mentioned of Bishops For so hee sayth Magnus quidam vir c. A certaine great man meaning Beza as it is supposed did write vnto mee of this matter as followeth Your confession was read by mee and N. others with great delight It is written most learnedly and in a most exquisite methode and if you except that which you adde towards the end touching Archbishops and the Hierarchie mihi summopere placuit it pleased mee exceedingly Vpon this occasion as it seemeth Zanchius printed his said confession with certaine annotations In the which annotations he sheweth three reasons for his allowance of Archbishops Bishops The first is grounded vpon the practise of the primitiue church presently after the Apostles times the second is for that hee thought it his dutie in the draught of his said booke to haue regard to those reformed churches which retaine both Bishops Archbishops and the third because all the reformed Churches generally although they haue chaunged the names yet in effect they doe keepe the authoritie as where they haue superintendents and generall superintendents Nay saith he where these new base Latine names are not admitted Ibi tamen solent esse aliquot primarij penes quos fere tota est authoritas yet there are in those places vsually certaine chiefemen that doe in a manner beare all the sway But I pray you be pleased that I may deliuer vnto you the maner of his setting down of his first reason and that in his owne words for they carry with them a notable condemnation of other mens great pride rashnes Cum haenc conscriberem fidei confessionem c. When I writ this confession of faith I writ all the thinges in it of a good conscience and as I beleeued so I freely spake the scriptures teaching men so to doe And my faith first of all and simply doth rely vpon the word of God then somewhat also vpon the common consent of the whole ancient Catholicke Church if the same bee not repugnant to the scriptures For I beleeue that what thinges were defined and receiued by the auncient Fathers assembled in the name of the Lord with a generall consent of them all and without any contradiction of the holy Scriptures the same surely although they be not of the same authoritie with holy Scriptures yet did they proceed from the holy Ghost Heereof it commeth to passe that those things which are of this nature neither would I neither dare I with a good conscience disallow them And what can be shewed more certainly out of histories out of the councels out of the writings of all the ancient fathers then that those orders of Ministers of the which we haue spoken haue bene ordained and receiued in the Church by the generall consent of all christian common-wealths And who then am I that should presume to reproue that which the whole Church hath approued This is true and religious humilitie Thus all graue and discreet godly men haue euerwritten Those that contemne all the learned Fathers that went before them doe open a windowe to their owne discredite by those that shall come after them That which this godly and great learned man ascribeth to the
holy Ghost and durst not with a safe conscience reprooue euerie sawcie Iacke with vs euerie ignoraunt dolt and euerie Bridewell rake-hell dare disdaine and condemne Tell them of Fathers and Councels they make but a mocke at it But as yet you know not the cause why I haue especially alleadged all these things out of Zanchius I will therefore now tell it you And it is this You haue heard how Beza and some others disliked of Zanchius confession and wherefore But now hee is come about and is grown to be fully of Zanchius iudgement if a man may beleeue him For wheras D. Sarauia had cited these places of Zanchius in the behalfe of Bishops and Archbishops M. Beza aunswered directly that neither he nor his brethren doe dissent therein from Zanchius à quo minimè certè dissentimus But I may not conceale this frō you that although Zanchius hath written so modestly of the callinges of Archbishops and Bishops as it hath beene shewed yet he rather fancied the new platform of Elderships which Beza omitteth not to put Sarauia in minde of when hauing yeelded to Zanchius his saide opinion of Bishops he addeth other places out of him for his allowance of the Eldership and then concludeth Si Zanchio assentiris qua de re contendimus If you agree with Zanchius where about contend wee Wherby I obserue into what a streight Beza is brought For notwithstanding any thing that hee hath written formerly against such Bishops Archbishops as professe the Gospell he can now bee content to reuoke it wholy so as they at Geneua may holde their Elderships He hath so farre ingaged his credit for that kind of gouernment as gladly he would preserue the reputation of it But he seeth I am perswaded it will not bee and that the equality they haue dreamed of tendeth to confusion therefore he beginneth to retire himself from that conceit as well as he may It is much his former proceedings considred that euer he could be brought to Zanchius moderation But yet hee commeth neerer vnto vs for although his Bishop of man found so small fauour with him before as that hee made him the roote of iniquitie and needs he must be plucked vp yet now he is much more fauorable vnto him if I vnderstande him and saith he calleth him the Bishop of man non simpliciter sed comparatè not simply but by way of comparison in respect he meaneth of his Bishop of God Now he acknowledgeth him to haue had place in the church euer since S. Marks time and that one was so chosen saith he certè reprehendi nec potest nec debet assuredly it neither can nor ought to be reprehended Nay hee affirmeth Iustis de causis fieri debuit That for iust causes it was necessarie Vt vnusquispiam e. presbyterio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 esset permaneret That some one should be the Prelate ouer the presbyterie not for a day or an action as Cartwright saith but to remaine and continue allowing well of S. Ieromes reason why such a choise ought to bee made vz. In remedium schismatis for the remedy of schismes But one thing remaineth which passeth all the rest You shall see that for all the former stormes Beza could be very well content at the length if he might to be in effect an Archbishop Doctor Sarauia amongst diuers other proofes for the calling and authoritie of Bishops bringes an order out of the Apostles Canons so called because of their antiquitie First you shall see it and then also heare Maister Bezas iudgement for the matter of it The Bishoppes of euery nation ought to knowe who is the chiefe amongst them and to account him as it were their heade without whose allowance they ought to doe nothing of any moment but euery one those things onely which belong to his owne parish and the villages which are vnder it Neither let himselfe doe any thing without the knowledge of all For so there shall bee concord and God shall be glorified through our Lord in his holy spirit Thus far the Canon whereof Beza writeth in this sort There is here mention made of him that was the chiefe amongst his fellow Bishops who was afterward called the Archbishop And a little after speaking of the same Canon Quid aliud hic statuitur quam ordo ille quem in omnibus locis ecclesiis restitutum cupimus What els is here appointed than that order which wee desire should bee restored to the Churches in all places And is not the spirituall gouernement of Geneua as yet in her perfection Haue they rashly ouerthrown there such Offices of the Church as nowe they would gladly should be restored againe Those Churches that haue followed Bezas humor in the abolishing of their Bishops and Archbishops may they not iustly wish he had neuer beene borne It is an easie matter to ouerthrow but he and they all shall find it a most difficult thing to build vp againe Haue they pleaded so long for an aequalitie amongst all Ministers that now they can be content to be as it were the heades chiefe ouer the Bishops within the same countries Well the conclusion is this Either Beza writ not the Epistles mentioned to Duditius and Knox though hee hath set them out in his owne name or what hee writ in them against Bishops Archbishops he meant should bee onely extended against popish Bishops and Archbishops then Cartwright hath done him great iniurie in affirming that hee meant our Bishoppes or he is not the author of the treatise of the three sortes of Bishops albeit he calleth it Scriptum meum my discourse and saith as much in effect in his annotations vpon the Epistle to the Philippians or he supposeth in that treatise that there were popish Bishops and Archbishops before and at the time that the Councell of Nice was helde when in all the world there was neither popery nor popish Bishop or hee was ignoraunt that Field had translated the saide treatise into English and that it was published amongst the brethren here and held for currant doctrine or by his agreeing with Zanchius by his writing as hee doth to the now L. Archbishop of Canterbury by his allowing the choise of one Minister to haue a permanent office of primacie ouer the rest by his wishing the restitution of the orders mentioned in the Apostles Canons by these thinges and the rest specified being throughly considered or as I said hee hath now altered his opinion whatsoeuer hee hath written els where to the contrary or els you must take him as you find him For my part I will thinke the best that he hath been formerly abused very greatly by slaunderous reportes which caused him to write as he hath done But howsoeuer this course against Bishops hath been carried on hitherto amongst them God bee thanked for some amendment And lette vs take holde of that which they haue granted You may be
bold to build vpon it for a truth that they are so constrained to yeeld vnto And then to ende this chapter Forasmuch as God himselfe appointed an inequalitie amongst the Priestes in the olde Testament Forasmuch as Christ though he calleth himselfe a Minister to minister vnto others was yet the Maister ouer his Apostles and Disciples Forasmuch as by Christs institution and in his owne time the Apostles were superior vnto the seuentie Disciples Forasmuch as the Apostles when the gospell began to spread it selfe appointed sundry Timothies Titus to gouerne the Churches in diuerse countries and territories Forasmuch as all the ecclesiasticall histories doe record the superioritie of Bishops and doe sette downe the Catalogues of many of them and which of the Apostles and Apostolicall Bishops and in what cities countries they succeeded Forasmuch as all the ancient generall Councels all the ancient and godly learned Fathers haue allowed of Bishops and of their superiority ouer the rest of the clergie Forasmuch as Bishops haue been accounted generally throughout the world to be the Apostles successors haue continued in the Church euer since the Apostles times Forasmuch as there was neuer any one of all the auncient Fathers nor any learned man for 1500. yeres but Aerius the heretike that euer held that there ought to bee no difference betwixt a Bishop a Priest I meane an ordinary Minister of the word and that his opinion was imputed vnto him 1200. yeeres since by Epiphanius and S. Augustine for an heresie Forasmuch as all the chiefe of the learned men that were the principall instruments vnder God in this latter age for the restitution of the Gospell allowed fullie of Bishoppes and of their authoritie and would not willingly haue submitted themselues to their obedience if they might haue bene receiued with anie tollerable conditions Forasmuch as all the reformed Churches in Germanie that doo imbrace the Augustane confession haue for the most part their superintendents and generall superintendents the same in effect with our Bishops Archbishops Forasmuch as the chiefest of the Germain writers now liuing do iustifie the calling offices of their superintendents and generall superintendents by the word of God Forasmuch as none of later times euer condemned the calling and authoritie of such Bishops and Archbishops as imbraced the Gospell for ought I finde but Beza and his schollers Forasmuch as Zanchius a fauorer of the Elderliship equalitie and now Beza himselfe ioyning with him do both of them confesse that the calling and authoritie of Bishops and Archbishops may be defended that they did proceed frō the holy Ghost and that there is nothing more manifest in all the Ecclesiasticall histories all the ancient councels and in the writings of all the ancient fathers then the allowance of them throughout all christendome Forasmuch as Beza for his own part hath written so honorably to the now L. Archbishop of Canterbury and so generally of all our Bishops now professing the Gospell condemning those of great arrogancie that shall presume to speak against them Forasmuch as you perceiue by Bezaes confession that there ought to be Bishops or Prelates such as were in the Church from S. Markes time for the auoiding and staying of contentions and schismes And forasmuch I saie as all these particular points are in sort as you haue heard the most of them confessed the rest by diuerse learned men proued to be true so still alwaies to be iustified with as ful consent and authoritie as may satisfie anie men either of learning or iudgement I see no reason why this Anabaptisticall dreame of equality amongst pastors should not be sent backe to the place frō whence it issued why the vrgers of it with such bitternesse ought to bee accounted otherwise off than hereby I trust you may see they deserue why Cartwright and his libelling generation against the present forme of our Church-gouernment should be anie longer indured or why any calling in the world next vnto the calling of euery Moses and soueraigne within their owne dominions should be more esteemed cherished reuerenced or honored by all true christians then the callings offices authoritie of Bishops and Archbishops hauing so generall continuall an allowance both of God himselfe and of all godly and rightly zealous men euer since there was any outward forme of church gouernment appointed CHAP. IX They disagree verie greatly concerning Doctors IT is now become to be a receiued opinion especially amongst those that desire to haue the kingdome of the pretended Elderships to raigne ouer them that S. Paul in the fourrh to the Ephesians doth make the Doctor a distinct office from the Pastor contrarie to the iudgement of S. Augustine Hierome Chrisostome Bullinger Musculus c. who make them but one office euen as feeding and teaching are all one Of this deuise for ought I do remember Caluin was the first author whose conceit Beza followeth And then it may not be meruailed though all the rest of that humor do faithfully imbrace it Of this office our reformers all of them ioyntly do carry this resolute opinion that it is a distinct ordinance of Christ to continue in the Church for euer that there ought to be a Doctor in euery Parish wheresoeuer there is a Pastor that the doctor is one of the members of the body of Christ that the doctor is one of those officers to whō the gouernment of the Church by Christs appointment is cōmitted that cōsequētly he hath by the same authoritie his place voice in the Consistorie as wel by as good right as either the pastor or Elder So as if there be anie reformed churches in the world where there are pastors that haue not these doctors which do not admit them to haue anie such authoritie nor giue thē either place or voice in their consistories then surely all those and many such like speeches following do euen as properly fall vpon them as they do vpon our church against the which they were first coined and vttered They refuse the ordinance of God They depriue the Church of the free gift of Christ they purpose not to haue the Church flourish in true knowledge They want some necessarie guifts which are tied necessarily to that office The knowledge of the son of God being necessarie to saluation The meanes thervnto are absolutely necessarie which is the hauing of pastors and doctors so long as men are subiect to ignorance The church is miserably destitute that wāteth the doctor They cānot take awaie those ministeries that God hath placed in his Church No christian Churches ought to swarue from the officers he nameth doctors that God hath appointed If they do they maime the Church they take away a member from the bodie of Christ they maime his bodie and deforme it Which after the manner of their amplifications is a matter of as great importance as the addition of anie new officers
the Church committed So as then these parochiall Doctors were cleane out of request And is not this the lightnes and fleshly minde which the Apostle renounceth in that they come thus vnto vs with yea and nay But as yet you see not all the vncertainties follies iarres squaringes and contradictions which I finde about this matter Iunius saith that of doctors some were prophets some were doctors Beza he holdeth that S. Pauls meaning was to diuide Prophets into Pastors doctors Whose diuisions or opinions cannot both bee true if the rules of diuisiō be duly obserued For by the first euery prophet is a doctor and by the second euery doctor is a prophet Furthermore as Iunius very cunningly will draw both a prophet and a doctor out of a doctor as Beza wringeth the doctor out of the prophet so Trauerse he can fetch him out of a Bishop Of Bishops saith he some are pastors and some are doctors By whose extraction euery Geneua school-master that teacheth but petits is now become a Bishop And peraduenture I doe espie his pollicie in it A great while it went vnchecked amongst them for an Ecclesiastical canon as though the king of Persia had made it that a Doctor was inferior to the Pastor and to holde the second place But since it was better considered of wisely foreseene that Cartwright some others might more safely take vpon them the office of doctors thē of pastors who are tied more strictly to the obseruation of diuers ceremonies they seeme to mee to bee quite come about and to assigne the first place mentioned vnto the Doctor so no maruaile if they make him a Bishop The office of teaching saith the learned discourser is the chiefe principal office in the church And afterward The office of a Doctor is to teach With whom the godly Sermoner seemeth to agree when he saith Mans soule hath two parts vz. reason or the minde and the hart or the affection By the fall of Adam there is darknes in the mind and rebellion in the hart Now the Lord to cure these diseases hath giuen remedie to his Church First a Doctor to teach vs and then a Pastor to exhort vs c. And Fenner-likewise doth place the Doctor before the Pastor But of this matter I haue no great regard whether soeuer goeth first as proud commeth after And peraduenture they haue some way to shift it I will not therfore stand greatly vppon it especially hauing some other of their Doctoral points to aduertise you of which are of greater importaunce For as yet they are not agreed for any thing I can find whether their Doctors in that they are Doctors bee Ministers to take as wee commonly speake the cure and charge of soules vpon them in particular parishes or not In the whole treatise of the discipline of Fraunce the rules and orders sette downe for making of Ministers doe belong altogether vnto such as our men tearme Pastors And the same course is also held in the seruice booke of Scotland But most plaine it is in the generall Synode of Hage vz. that Doctors are not such Ministers where hauing set downe after the newest fashion the foure functions left vs as they say by Christ vz. Pastors Doctors Elders and Deacons it presently followeth in this manner Nemo sine legitima vocatione c. No man ought to take vpon him to preach or administer the sacraments without a lawfull calling although he be a Doctor an Elder or a Deacon Whereby it appeareth as I said that their Doctors in some places beyond the seas are no Ministers without some further calling And yet our English reformers are generally of another iudgement making Ministers of the worde to comprehend aswell Doctors as Pastors as it appeareth in all their seuerall treatises I will not quote any other places than their subscribed new draught of discipline and their Captaines resolution that the officers mentioned Ephes. 4. were all of them assuredly Ministers of the word Lastly if they should bee able in time to compasse this point that their Doctors by vertue of that calling might goe for such Ministers yet a new controuersie thereupon ariseth not inferiour to any of the rest vz. whether it appertaineth to these kinde of Ministers of the word to be Ministers also of the sacraments Caluin thinketh that this is a part of the difference betweene the Pastor and the Doctor Quod Doctores nec disciplinae nec sacramentorū administrationi praesunt That Doctors haue neither to deale with the discipline ' nor with the administration of sacraments But Cartwright little esteeming Caluins iudgement in this matter is most earnest to the contrary who grounding himself as he would seem vpon diuers reasons examples and authorities giueth out these Oracles The Ministers of the word sacraments cannot be pulled in sunder It is a perpetuall ordinance that the same should bee the Ministers of the worde and sacraments These wordes are plaine inough to expresse a mans mind But you may not giue any faith vnto him For as I suppose hee hath altered his iudgement And yet if you will peruse the place you shall not finde him more peremptorie in any one point throughout all his writings In the new draught of discipline wherunto he hath subscribed it is thus defined The Church-officers are first the Ministers of the worde c. And those are Pastors Qui doctrinam sacramenta administrant Who administer doctrine and the sacraments or Doctors Qui versantur in sana doctrina docenda conuincendis erroribus Who are occupied in teaching of wholesome doctrine and in confuting of errors And thus his second sort of Ministers of the word is quite debarred and cut off from the administration of the sacraments Not to gratifie I suppose either Caluin or the truth but because it concerneth most their owne present estate For as the Doctor for their sakes began to be aduanced a steppe higher than he was before so is hee now likewise as I imagine in the same respect disburdened of that base office They can finde in their harts to preach but vrge them to administer the sacraments and their common answere is this we haue nothing to doe with that duetie it belongeth to the Pastors and we are Doctors The matter is they will not obserue the orders of the Church in the administration of sacramentes whereupon it is now come to passe that there may bee certaine Ministers of the worde who haue not authoritie to administer the sacramentes But let them goe They haue not written truth in the tables of their harts and therefore she hath forsaken them CHAP. X. Their Aldermen must be men of good calling AS concerning the number of these pretended rulers there will bee a more fitte place to speake of that hereafter Now you shall first knowe what manner of men they must bee In most parishes of England no doubt but
of Bishops and so we may call them From whom Trauerse if he be the author of the defence of ecclesiasticall gouernment of the booke of ecclesiasticall discipline first dissenteth then secondly also frō himselfe For in his said defence hee is most peremptorie and bringeth diuerse reasons for it vz. That ruling Elders are not comprehended vnder the name of Bishop yet in his other booke he saith generally of all their Elders both Ministers and Rulers They are said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to gouern rule ouersee Now if their dutie set downe in the scriptures be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their office is surely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 must needes comprehend them aswell as the Ministers of the word But that I may omit their thwarting thus the streame runneth from Cartwright and Iunius fountaines The titles of Christs vicars and of good prelates do both agree saith Cartwright vnto the Elders which onely gouerne And Iunius thus in effect The scriptures do call both Ministers Elders indifferently sometimes Prophets as The spirites of the Prophets are subiect to the Prophets sometimes Episcopos id est inspectore◠Bishops that is ouer-seers as Take heed to your selues and to all the flocke whereof the holy Ghost hath made you ouer-feers to feed the Church of God c. sometimes rulers or laborers rulers as We beseech you brethren that you know them which labour among you and are ouer you in the Lord sometimes ductores seu duces leaders or captaines as Obey them that haue the ouer-sight of you and submit your selues for they watch for your soules as they that must giue account c. sometimes pastors as He therefore gaue some to be Apostles some Prophets and some Euangelists some Pastors and teachers sometime Elders as When they had ordained them Elders in euery Cittie c. sometimes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ministers as Where Paul saith thus of himselfe that I should bee a Minister of Iesus Christ toward the Gentiles ministring the Gospel of God c sometime 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ministers as I am Paule whom thou persecutest but arise and stand vpon thy feete for I haue appeared vnto thee for this purpose to appoint thee a Minister and a witnesse both of the things which thou hast seene and of the things in the which I wil appeare vnto thee sometime deacons that is Ministers as Who is Paule Who is Apollo But the Ministers by whome yee beleeued c. And againe the same Iunius in the booke before noted of both their kinds of Elders Sunt salterrae sunt lux mundi in sua ecclesia singuli They are the salte of the earth they are the light of the worlde euery one of them in their seuerall Churches If Augustine Ambrose Ierome Chrisostome and all the rest of the ancient Fathers were now aliue and should vnderstand to what purpose these scriptures were thus alledged would they not wonder that euer any men should lyue that durst with such boldnes and so little shew of truth so abuse the word of God themselues their readers and all the world Nay I am perswaded that if M. Caluin himself that first deuised these officers were now aliue he wold be greatly ashamed of this corruption so notorious an abuse But God hath dealt with them already according to his wonted custome in such a case For they are wonderfully diuided and doe confound themselues in their expositions of the seuerall places as when I come vnto that point it shall in some sort appeare But of all these confused number of names for their Elders if I were asked vpon which I gessed they would in time most properly insist I feare it wil proue to be that of Arch-synagogians or of Arch-rulers of their saide gouernment deduced as they confesse from the synagoge For saith the Counter-poison God hath ordained for the rulers of the synagogue Churchrulers or Elders Likewise Cartwright The chiefe of the synagogue are the same which wee call Elders ancients of the church And Beza also Archisynagogi dicuntur qui particularium ecclesiarum negotia administrabant propterea censētur ecclesiae nomine Mat. 18.17 They are called Arch-rulers of the synagogue who did manage the affaires of particular churches are therefore in Math. 18. tearmed by the name of the church But the said Cartwright passeth Their Synagogues saith he being the same that our churches in euery one of them beeing not one but many princes the vrging of that example bringeth diuers chiefe gouernors or Archbishops intocuerie particular church His meaning is as I take it that if they be vrged too farre so constrained to speake their consciences which peraduenture as yet they would bee loth to do they must thē of necessitie deale plainly with vs tell vs roundly that all the Elders which they looke for esteeme them as wee list that haue no such diuine insight into them they are indeed and must be our chiefe gouernors our Archbishops and our Princes Surely such artizans meane persons as should occupie these roomes in most parishes if they had their platforme might well haue been contented with his former titles giuen vnto them of Christs vicars Gods prelats though they had wanted these But it would be remembred that if such as are vnder the Ministers bee of this great honor what are we to think of the Ministers themselues that are so far aboue them I had forgotten to tell you how Cartwright affirmeth though falsly that the word priesthood is sometime taken in the ecclesiasticall writers for this kinde of Elders Whereby I coniecture that their graund pastors especially in such cities as haue many parishes vnder one consistorie must be if not summi sacerdotes the high priests yet at the least principes sacerdotum the princes of Elders or rather reges regum kings of kings But by what titles they will maintaine their owne greate preheminence aboue their Elders I do not greatly regard it This is strange that after so many disputations and libels against the names of our Archbishops to prooue them Antichristian or vnlawfull wee hauing but two of them in all England they would now if they might be suffred impose vpon vs seuen or eight Archbishops in euery parish What a wringing wresting is there of this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by Beza Cartwright and others as being for the imperiousnes of it vnmeet to agree with the Ministers of the Gospell And yet now their new deuised Elders worthy men for the most part I warrāt you may euery one of them lawfully be called an Archbishop I would gladly know for my learning why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ioined to this worde Bishop should be rather an vnlawfull name for some Minister than whē it is ioined to all their own Synagogians
their giftes and qualities shoulde bee chosen to such and such offices there ought euer especiall care to be had that none destitute of them as neer as might be should be admitted vnto them And if I haue been deceaued herein I maruaile howe it commeth to passe that many men vnfit for their giftes being vpon diuerse occasions more necessarie then can happen for the choyse of their Elders admitted into the ministery such wants haue not been so plentifully supplied and they sodainly become new men But the rule holdeth of likelihood only for their Elders Ah hee meaneth I suppose that God will take off the spirite that is in him and the rest of their Pastors and doctors and put it vppon them as he did from Moses for the 70. Numb 2. and this you may beleeue when you heare them all prophesie Surely for ought I can see they haue not any suche aboundant store of the giftes of Gods spirite that they can spare much to bee taken from them except they shall be left wholly destitute But it were good wee sent into Scotland and some other Countries to learne more certainly of this straunge metamorphosis before we be too light of credite For as I take it we may not looke for such extraordinary matters nowe And besides I feare if their Elders should receiue any portion of that spirite which is in some reformers it will be of that which offred himselfe to be a lying spirite in the mouthes of certaine Prophets and then it were better for vs they neuer prophesied CHAP. XIII Of their vncertaintie whether their Elders be ecclesiasticall men or lay men THere hath been an auncient distinction betwixt the Priests and the people the one sorte being tearmed the Cleargie and the other the laitie Which notwithstanding Beza misliketh Veteres patres cleri nomen ad collegium Ecclesiasticorum ministrorum transtulerunt The auncient fathers did transferre the name of Cleargie vnto the Colledge of Ecclesiasticall Ministers c. but they ought not to haue done so If they had been as wise as Beza is it is like they would not The pretence of this reproofe which is made by diuerse is saide to bee in respect of Gods people for that they are thereby iniuried And haue they deuised a way how to recompence them Surely they haue But it is as meane a one as euer you knew For they deuide all Christians into Church-Ministers or officers and into Idiots Christ saide not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the Idiotes that is vnto all the people whose sinnes yee remitte c. Sed ecclesiastica authoritate praeditis but to suche as are endewed with Ecclesiasticall authoritie sayth Beza Againe touching the same wordes Sunt iudicialia haec verba Ideoque ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est nullo publico munere in Ecclesia fungentes quos postea laicos vocarunt minimè pertinentia They are iudiciall phrases And therefore doe not appertayne vnto Idiots that is to those that haue no publicke office in the church whoÌ„ afterward they called Lay-men Laicis postea hos vocarunt quibus oppositi sunt Ecclesiastici After they called them Lay-men to whom the Ecclesiasticall were opposite And because hereof great abuse did growe they will now renew the former distinction So now as many as are neyther pastors Doctors Elders nor Deacons be they Kings Councellors Lawyers or whatsoeuer they must satisfie themselues with the names of Idiots And if you will knowe the verye nature of the worde Idiota mayster Beza will also tell you Idiots are quasi priuati as it were priuate men But more fully in another place By the name of Idiots propriè significantur plaebeij viles c. Iam veró quia eiusmodi homines sere indocti sunt rerum imperiti idcirco factum est vt Idiotae dicaÌ„tur qui minimè ingeniesi sunt aut intelligentes Plebeiall and base persons are properly signyfied Now therefore because such men are for the most part vnlearned and ignorant it is come to passe that they who are not ingenious or men of vnderstanding are called Idiots Wise men and Idiots And did S. Paule make this diuision well I feare that they themselues will proue the Idiots But in the meane time the state of the Lande that hath no place in your regiment is beholden vnto them for marshalling them so discreetly Besides this distribution they allow also of another wherein all the sayd Idiots are termed ciuile men and their wise gouernours ecclesiasticall persons A name as strange almost for Artizans and men of trade such as before are mentioned as the former of Bishops and Archbishops And yet it must needes bee so For sayth Cartwright For so much as they were Church officers and â—uer the people in matters pertayning to God such as watched ouer the soules of men though they were no pastors to preach the word yet they were no laymen as they terme theÌ„ but ecclesiasticall persons Which if anye man will deny let him denye also that two and two makes foure For sayth the Counterpoyson Whosoeuer is called with due examination and triall with the consent of those to whom it appertayneth and are with fasting and prayers or with prayers onely and with imposition of handes separated or put a part to that office they are ecclesiasticall persons and not Lay-men as they terme them But Beza as I take it is plaine in this poynt and to our men verie opposite For sayth hee in proofe of his Elders Certè nisi c. Surely except some men chosen out of the body of the whole assemblie should sit in that companye by whom the whole Church is gouerned The generall name of the church would scarsly agree to that company with which name notwithstanding it is adorned because through that meanes men being chosen out of all the partes of the whole Church they might represent the whole church By which wordes his meaning eyther must needes be that for the better representation of the whole church there must be Lay-men as wee call them aswell of the Eldership as Ministers or that their Elders ought to bee chosen out of the companie of men of euery trade and vocation which cannot in any wise agree to the practise of Geneua where men of the state and Councellors are onely chosen Now if vppon their choyse as being Idiots before they are become wise So of Lay-men they are presentlie made Ecclesiasticall persons then the representation of both the estates is drowned by which meanes theyr Eldershippe might loose the name of the Church or at the least scarsely continew it Heere commeth also further into my minde another opinion of Bezaes fitte for this place which in my iudgement doth mightely thwart not himselfe onely but all his abettors for erecting vp of their Eldershippe He sayth when Christ vsed these words Tell the church c. Math. 18. In discipulorum persona legitimum ecclesiae nomine consensum
congregatū intelligebat he vnderstood in the person of his Disciples a lawfull Senate or company assembled together in the name of the church And in his confessions hee also affirmeth that the keyes of the kingdome of heauen were giuen omnibus verè presbyteris to all true Elders including his only ruling Elders in persona Apostolorum in the person of the Apostles Which opinion of his first ouerthroweth his collection that there must needes be vnpriestly Elders for the sayd representation by him deuised For here wee see the Church represented sufficiently in his iudgement Math. 16.19 and 18. v. by Christs disciples and Apostles they being all of them ministers of the word and sacraments to whom Christ there spake Secondly if the Apostles in receauing the keyes sustayned the person of all true priests and if Peter when Christ saide vnto him vnto thee I will giue the keyes sustained the person of the Apostles It followeth that one man maye sustaine the person of all Bezaes true Elders or Eldership and so consequently it is not against the word of God if wee saye Tell the Churche that is tell the Bishops vz. one man But to leaue Beza to his owne pleasure both to saye and do what he list especially in his owne Consistory And yet truelie it were good reason if their Elders bee Christs vicars Gods prelates Bishops Archbishops they should be accounted ecclesiasticall persons and I am perswaded that the one is as true as the other CHAP. 14. Theyr disagreement concerning the continuance of theyr Elders in their office AT Geneua their Elders are simplye chosen but for a yeare In the French church in London they are elected as I heare for three yeares It was thus ordered in the Nationall Councell of the Belgicke churches at Hage 1586. Seniores et Diaconi duos annos inseruiant quotannis numerus dimidiatus commutabitur c. Let the Elders and Deacons serue two yeares and the halfe of them shall be chaunged euery yeare c. Scotland followeth the Geneua order if their booke bee true of the forme of their praiers printed 1584. and doth retayne them but for a yeare And then euerie man as hee was before A prelate Christes vicar a Bishop an Archbishop an ecclesiasticall man this yeare a plaine Dauber a Thatcher a Taylor a Cobler and a Tinker the next yeare and so by turnes backwarde and forward if any of the same persons shall be diuers times chosen as often as it falleth out amongst them What election and ordination by triall praiers fastings imposition of handes and all but for a yeare It maketh mee to remember a saying of Tertullian in the like case Ordinationes eorum temerariae leues inconstantes c. Theyr ordinations are rash light and inconstant c. Alius hodiè Episcopus alius cras c. Hodiè Diaconus qui eras lector hodiè presbyter qui cras laicus This day one is a Bishop and to morrow another c. To daye a Deacon and to morrow a Reader he that is a priest or an Elder to daye is the next day after become a Lay-man c Nowe if they will say that they haue some rules out of the scriptures for this their mutabilitie as I trust they will be ashamed to saie otherwise that as Cartwright sayth These Elders did not florish in Constantines time shall wee thinke that the Bishops in the Councell of Nice when they went about the matter that Paphnutius withstoode did euer intende that such an Elder or ecclesiasticall person becomming a layman againe after a yeare or two should vppon his choyse to that office frō thence foorth not companie with his wife which he had married before It maie peraduenture bee answered that Christes order for this annuall or bienniall change was through corruption altered before that Councell and growen to bee a continuall office Indeed they may bee bolde with those times to speake of them as they list But what will you thinke if nowe the matter beginne to be called in question whether Geneua first and then after whether other their reformed churches of the Lowe Countries and of Scotlande haue done well in making these Elders but temporall officers rather then Ministers of the worde Certainelye a Learned man of that humor tolde mee playnlie that both Geneua and the rest were thought by diuerse graue men to haue done amisse therein And peraduenture by degrees you shall see some alteration about that matter For the Bretheren of Englande in their subscribed Discipline do beginne to make some qualification that way as it seemeth vnto mee when they saye Presbyteri non sunt perpetui neque tamen facilè moueantur Let not the Elders bee perpetuall nor yet easilye remoued They must not bee perpetuall but yet no time is prescribed So as they may continew Elders by this rule through the strength of one ordination twentie yeares if the rest of their companie bee so pleased And Carolus Gallus in his booke of Discipline is already come to the poynt affirming directlie Presbytero Ecclesiae post biennium aut triennium stationem suam deserere non licere That it is not lawfull for an Elder of the Church after two or three yeares to giue ouer his charge but must contynue the same vsque admortem vntill his death Which assertion hee taketh vppon him to prooue after the manner of these men by many arguments such as they are both out of the olde and newe Testament with whome agreeth Bannosius alledging this old Cannon which prouideth Ne bis presbyter ordinetur et ne quispiam bis baptizetur That a Priest or Elder bee not twise ordayned nor any twise baptised For sayth hee Ordinatio est perpetuae functionis consecratio quemadmodum baptismus perpetui foederis cum Deo initi est testificatio Ordination is the consecration of a perpetuall function as baptisme is a contynuall testimony or witnesse of our League made with God This surelye draweth deeplie How it will be taken at his handes I knowe not I am perswaded that whilest Beza liueth it will neuer be admitted at Geneua For so if their twelue Elders did see their authoritie to bee of such continuance they might paraduenture hold the six ministers noses to the grindstone Whereas nowe they knowing their kingdome to bee of such small continuance euen as they please the ministers doe suffer them to raigne and doe what they list fearing what afterclapps might light vpon them the yeare after if they should doe otherwise Besides if they should be offices of such endurance those princes noblemen and gentlemen that would be content paraduenture for a yeare to become ecclesiasticall persons amongst them and execute their office forsooth in their owne persons would be twise aduised how they left their other affaires to attend vppon that worshipfull seruice So as what will be the issue amongst them herein god knoweth For my part I doe not and therefore I will leaue them
profitable duetiés doe appertaine but these our Elders therefore I thinke they are to bee referred to them I thinke Beholde hee is not certaine There are no other When shall that be proued by the coldnes of his conclusion considering the mans warm disposition it seemeth to me that if the same things might bee brought to passe without these Elders that they ascribe to their offices they would not much insist to vrge them any longer Which maketh mee to remember the notable Counsaile which Gualter gaue to the Bishops of England in a Letter of his to the Bishop of Ely Where prosecuting certaine points of more then popish tyranny practised by some of his neighbour Consistorians and commending those in Englande that did oppose themselues to the innouators here hee giueth this adui se. Ne tamen hi habeant plausibilem calumniandi occasionem c. But leaste your disturbers and vnquiete personnes may haue a plausible occasion of slaundering it is necessary to ordayne by the Magistrates authority a Christian meanes or Discipline for reformation of manners whereby the Ministers if theyr liues bee dissolute the too much libertye of great men and the corrupt behauiour of the common people may bee restrained Nam si id fiat non habebunt illi quod quiritentur nisi apertam Imperij affectationem profiteri velint For if that be done those persons shall haue no cause to complaine except they will publikely professe the affectation of the Empire It appeareth by diuers letters of Gualters that the present state of the Church of England is so depraued beyond the seas by these companions amongst vs as that it hath beene conceiued by godly men that wee had no lawes no good orders no discipline but that euery man might doe what he list which caused him to giue this aduise Whereas if he had knowne the trueth hee would rather haue vrged the Bishops to a more carefull regard then hetherto they haue had for the executinge of such lawes as wee haue made to our hands already then for the making any new For the best reformed churches in Europe may cast their caps as the saying is in this respect at England Which heapeth a greater iudgement vpon them that can not bee content to liue quietly vnder the present gouernement but do so frowardly so seditiously so fondly seek to disturbe the same and to bringe vnto vs they know not what a counterfeite Chimera without either top or toe proportionable to that which is pretended But this is by the way My purpose was to informe you that for the duties or offices before so largely ascribed vnto their Elders to bee seuerally by them executed in their particular tribes they haue no warrant in the woord of God but are driuen to silly shiftes their proculdubio their thinkinges and as you haue seene in effect to confesse as much So that by their owne diuinity those men that dare take vpon them such offices are in daunger to perish Now I will come to those offices which they affirme they are to execute with the Pastor and Doctor CHAP. XVI Of their Aldermens ioynt-office with the Ministers in the election abdication and ordination of Ministers and of their disagreement about the same THe Elders saith maister Cartwright are ioyntly to execute with the Ministers election or choyse and the abdication or putting out of Ecclesiasticall officers Tush why omitteth he ordinatioÌ„ Let it be added out of his demonstrator and others to go with the other for company Euery officer of the church saith the Demonst. he must be ordained by the laying on of the handes of the Eldership Indeed heere is now good fellowship The second is in excommunication of the stubborne or absolution of the repentant The third is the decision of all such matters as do rise in the church eyther touching corrupt manners or peruerse doctrine A man would haue thought these Elders had been sufficiently loaden before but here is a surcharge with a witnesse I trust their proofes for these thinges are very pregnant or else their presumption will be more then palpable You must not forget that whether these Rulers in Moses time did ioyne with the Priestes in the execution of any of their offices at all or not Beza though hee labour to seeke out their first institution and so to finde them when they were at the best yet he is driuen to his probabile est for that point and can go no further that way Besides will they say that in the old testament these their Elders had to doe in the electing or chosing of Priests so consequently in their deposition Lay it in them or in their voices to make new Leuites It is a mockery Besides what if their Elderships themselues haue no such authoritie shall it not in some sorte impaire the credite of their Aldermen Or if the Ministers the maisters of the game be cut short may not their attendantes be contented though they be somewhat abridged At Geneua in the election of their Ministers the councell of state hath in effect a negatiue voyce For after their Ministers vpon examination of the partie and hearing of him preach haue thought him a meete man for the ministery he must againe preach before some of the Councell and if the Councel like him not he cannot be chosen but is repelled And as the ciuile magistrate hath there his ordinary authoritie in the electing of ministers so hath he when any of them doe incurre the daunger of law the like authoritie to depose them againe from the Ministery This were a disgrace indeed if our graue Eldership should be thus ouerruled But for their Aldermen in all that action of both sortes vz election and abdication I doe not find them so much as once mentioned by those lawes except they be included in the name of ministers And then some of their ministers are dumbe dogges By the decrees of the nationall Synode at the Hage the election of ministers may not be by the Consistorie alone but the Deacons are also ioyned in commission with them and likewise the Classis or if there be none then two or three neighbour-ministers And for deposition of any from the ministerie that is Penes caetum Classicum belonging to the Classicall assembly It seemeth that the Elders being more in number in euerie Eldership then the ministers beganne to play false play and shewed some wilfulnesse so as nowe they must in this sorte be bridled with a pluralitie of more Priestly voyces By which meanes though they seeme to haue some interest in these affaires yet in effect it is none at all Furthermore it is ordered by the great Synode in Fraunce that a minister may not be chosen by one onely minister with his consistorie but by two or three ministers or if there be a colloquy by the collâ—quy with the consistorie or els by the prouinciall Synode if it may be But touching
coulde not depute it to the Apostle So as it remaineth that he did it by his owne authoritie or at the least in the name of the rest that were ministers of the word which will not agree with our mens platforme If here exception be taken to Caluin as that in some other of his writings he is of an other minde you must bee aduertised that he beginning to write betimes did in diuers thinges vpon better aduise change his opinion And therefore in one of his epistles desireth those that wil reade his workes that they would first take the paines to reade his institutions as conteininge in them for those things there set downe his verie mind and setled iudgment But what if Beza doe in sort agree herin with Caluin Surely if I vnderstand him he doth For vpon these wordes Cum impositione manuum presbyterij id est saith he ordinis presbyterorum qu◠nomine caetus omnis ille significatur qui in verbo laborabat in ea ecclesia that is the order of Priestes or Elders by which name all that company is signified which did laboure in the word in that Church Disburden then for shame your counterfet Aldermen of this ioint-dutie in your Eldership or at the leaste let them rest vntill you be better resolued amongst your selues howe to imploie them least yow bring them within the compasse of the punishment of Corah Dathan and Abiram as I haue said before CHAP. 17. Of their Aldermens ioynt office with the ministers in binding and loosing of sinnes and of their disagreement therin COncerning their pretended authoritie equall with their ministers for their procedings are by voyces in excommunication of the stubborne and absolution of the repentant will they trouble themselues thinke you with any testimonies out of the old testament Indeede they affirme that these censures were resembled there by the authority of discerning bettwene the cleane and the vncleane betwene the holy vnholy of shutting vp the leprous and releasinge them of purginge the vncleane of cursing resembling bindding of blessing resembling loosing c. And be it so But where is there mention in any such places that your pretēded Elders had any authoritie to intermeddle with these matters Are they not throughout the whole olde testament euermore ascribed to Aaron and his sonnes Nay might any that were of other tribes then of the tribe of Leui deale heerwithal Speake franckly truly might they so Beza could find no answere to this question but Probabile est it is probable they might whereas I am perswaded there are fewe assertions of greater absurditie or of lesse probabilitie For the Leuites themselues that were not of the sonnes of Aaron had nothinge to doe in these thinges Trauers defininge what suspension is saith it is a commaundement or prohibition of an Elder of abstaininge for a certaine time from the receauing of the Sacraments For the proofe wherof he groundeth himselfe vpon this shadow as hee termeth it That by the law the vncleane and vncircumcised were prohibited the celebrating of the Passeouer entrance into the Temple Which caused saith hee Ioiada the priest to appoynt certaine porters to the gates of the Temple By which testimonies what hee else proueth then that his Elders were of the number of these Porters I finde not And that surelye agreeth best with Bezaes opion mentioned Horum proculdubio partes erant c. It was out of doubt the dutye of the Arch-rulers of the Synagogues not to admitte excommunicated persons into the Synagogues With which offices if they of that consorte will bee content to infeoffe their Aldermen and goe no further I see no cause why any man should greatly enuie them that preferment But when from dore-keepers they must be so aduaunced as that they must bee abdicators and comforters as they terme them that is more then vpon such weake collections is fit to bee allowed of For where they giue them these iointe offices with the Minister of abdicating the stubborne and of consolation of the repentant if they would speake out it is as much as though they should saie that they haue equall authoritie with them of suspension and excommunication of bindinge and loosing of retaining and remitting of sinnes No no they maie sende them to Parishgarden to loose and bind beares for they are farre vnmeet to haue anie such authoritie ouer mens soules That those which were not Bishops or Priestes that is ministers of the word and sacraments should haue that authoritie which they speake of is a matter that was neuer heard of in the Church of God for a 1500. yeares Cartwright in handling this pointe was able to bring for his purpose but one pertinent authoritie in shew out of all the auncient Fathers vz. out of Tertullian of certaine Presidents that shut offenders from praiers in the Congregation which presidents as hee well knoweth the same Tertullian saith expresslie in an other place were Ministers of the worde and sacraments in these wordes speaking of the Lordes supper Nec de aliorum manu quà m presidentium sumimus neyther do wee receaue at the handes of any other but of the gouernours It is worthie the consideration to see into what extremities men do commonlie fall that will presume to builde the Church vppon the straw and stubble of their owne deuises All the world cannot perswade the papists but that the keies of the kingdome of heauen were onely giuen to Peter and so to his successors and that from him the rest of the Apostles were to receaue them and so must their successors from the Pope Against whom we insist with the auncient Fathers that what was saide to Peter appertained to them all as namelie for one reasō in that where the keyes were promised to Peter tibi dabo I will giue them to thee when this promise was performed Christ gaue them vnto all the Apostles alike and to their successors Whose sinnes yee remit they shall be remitted and whose sinnes ye retaine they shall bee retayned which is the true vse of the keyes Now who are to be termed the Apostles successors if wee will belieue the said auncient Fathers that were in my opinion as honest and learned men as those that oppose themselues against them wee must confesse that they were at the least Ministers of the worde and sacraments and so we haue pleaded in this cause against the papists But now on the other side the world is so come about that whereas the papistes doe giue the keies but to Peter only and so to the Pope where the auntient fathers doe giue them to all the Apostles equally and so to their successors ministers as I said at the leaste now these newe start-ups will needes thrust their aldermen into that number and they must be also the Apostles successors If men will be seduced wilfully by such falseteachers they maie What a ridiculous sayinge is this of Bezaes That In persona Apostolorum the keyes
afterwardes to confer of the faultes or defects which are found in the young preacher and to tell him of them that he may amend them Certainely if these men had beene suffered to haue runne on foreward I feare they would haue runne madde What speculations be these All their Elders must be such men as Sainct Paul requireth a Bishop to be they must be able to preach in their Consistories and priuately And now you must haue in euery parish diuerse young men such as are meet for the exercises of Diuinity before they be admitted And where will they haue all these It was precisely saide of Maister Cartwright vz. thus in effect Neuer let that trouble you set vp the Eldership choose your Elders c. God wil make them fit for their charges vpon a soddain It had been verie prouidentlie handled of him if he had likewise taught the people that they should neuer haue sticked for anie cost which they were to bestow for the maintenance of the said Church-officers though they should bee twise as many because in bestowing their goods after that sorte God will make them rich and fill their tubbes their oile bottles their barns and their purses vpon the soddaine It was but a simple suite made by the author of the complaint of the comminalty that as the Papistes builte Seminaries to aduaunce the kingdome of the Diuell so there might be more Colledges and Seminaries of true Religion erected For now you see it is appointed that there shalbe such a Seminarie in euery parish And how the coiners of this deuise did euer grow into anie such conceite I cannot certainelie gesse except it bee because there is such a kinde of Schoole or Seminarie in Geneua Indeed when the State there had seazed vppon the Church-liuinges they erected a Schoole with some small allowance according as our English prouerbe runneth of taking away a goose and sticking down a feather The profit which they haue by the one exceedeth far the charge of the other If now our men could inuent such a way for euery parish peraduenture they might bee heard They talke indeede of a matter how to haue their Elderships with all the appertenannces thereunto belonging and yet not greatly to ouercharge any parishes But it is not after the fashion of Geneua There the Magistrates fleeced the church but they would haue all themselues the Bishops liuinges Cathedrall Churches Impropriations and rather then faile all the Abbaie landes and such thinges as did belong to all the rest of the houses of Religion If any parish in England should aske my counsell whether I thought they might safely enter into such a present charge for the maintenance of so many Pastor Doctor Elders Deacons Widdowes Ministers wiues their children and poor Students of Diuinities in hope that all the saide Church-liuings should be bestowed for their ease vpon such their Church officers I should say vnto them if I spake my conscience that I my selfe am far from anie such cogitation No no for al the outcries that the Disciplinarians make as in the next chapter you shall perceiue that all the Church-liuings might bee emploide to the maintenaunce of them and their Elderships well they may procure in some other age the further impouerishing of the Church but they shall be sure to be little the better for it CHAP. XXI Of their desire that those thinges which haue beene taken by Sacriledge from the Church might be restored againe to the maintenance of their Elderships EXperience they say is not a foolishe mistres but a mistres of fooles In the beginning of the late reformation of Religion in most places of Europe diuers notable mē did gretly ouershoote themselues It is Aristotles rule that one waie to come to the meane is to proceed ab extremo in extremum from one extremity to another And it may holde in the example by him alledged of making a crooked sticke to be straight but it is not to be allowed of in anie sort in the course of Diuinitie There it is reckned a point of great weaknes and so it is also with the prophane writers to run from one extremitie to another Manie examples I could bring of this weakenes as how in manie places men haue leapt from auricular confession to the contempt of all priuate conference with their Pastor from pharifaicall long praiers vppon a paire of beades three or foure times said ouer by tale at one time to little praier at all two or three words if so manie and farewel agreable to mens consciences euen as the Prouerb faith A short horse is soone curried from most gros and palpable Idolatrie and superstition vnto verie great securitie and prophanation Manie other such examples I might alledge of running from one mischiefe to another but there is none fitter then of the course which hath beene held in this verie matter whereof I intreate In times past men thought they could not giue too much to the church but now many suppose they cānot take too much frō the Church In times past there was so much giuen to the church that the k. of England was fain to make a lawe for the staie of so great liberality as Moses did when there was sufficient prouision made for the building of the temple but now mens harts are grown to such a contrary extremitie and are so far from incurring any danger in breaking that law for restraining thē as notwithstanding her most excellent M. hath cōtinued made her self very many notable laws that the church might keepe that which other men hath giuen her and for the binding of mē to pay their duties to the Church yet euerie man seeth how vnder pretence of concealements and by many other meanes the Church-goods are thirsted after and how the poore ministers are most pittifully defrauded in the paiment of such duties as do belong vnto them Insomuch by report as now in sondrie places if they shal but seek or sue to haue their own either they are greatlie misliked or presentlie are indited for common Barators or if they escape that out flieth a prohibition from one place a sequestration frō another and I know not what else nor from whence And the cause of these many other such extremities I doe not impute so much vnto the laitie as to sundrie men of the Clergie whose proceedings haue ben greatly by extremities It was an extremitie when Wickliffe affirmed that tithes appointed by God himselfe were merae eleemosynae meere almes But of all extremities that passeth where some now a daies would haue all taken from the Church that so Ministers might liue as they did in the Apostles times that is onelie vppon voluntarie contributions And this they thinke to be a part of the Apostolicall reformatiō which they seek for Wherunto I for my part might peraduenture yeelde if the laitie would be sworne before they tooke that from vs which we haue alreadie to deale with vs indeed for
followeth Timendum est c. It is to be feared least wee seeme ridiculous to your magistrats in requiring that of them which as yet wee haue not obtained of our owne We shall teach what the right vse is of church goods and who are the lawfull Stewardes of them that by our authoritie wee maie vrge those of Neocome Cur non potius exordium a nobis facimus But first why do not we begin with our selues Take heede therefore least in attempting to do you good that we doe not rather hurt your cause How much more forceable would that be which is in the booke that I procured to be printed when I was at Strasburgh For there the Princes as many as imbrace the gospel do promise the restitution of all which they haue in their possessions if once there were any godly concord agreed vpon Your magistrates are to be admonished by the example of those Princes that at the least vntill that time they would keepe them all wholy together vndisposed of or distracted in their owne hands You will aske me why I cease or hold my peace if I see the same mischiefe in Geneua that vexeth you Ego verònō cesso c. I do not truly cease openly in my sermons as oft as oportunitie serueth therunto Contestor Deum homines graue nobis imminere iudicium I do with griefe praier call God and men to witnes that a heauie iudgement hangeth ouer our heades I haue also affirmed diuerse times asmuch in our Senate neither doe I thinke that as yet I haue discharged my dutie seing I haue nothing preuailed But I do follow Ambrose who retayning the doctrine and the place of a pastor so as in defence of them he was ready to haue spent his life agros tyrannidi Imperatoris Valentiniani sinebat hee permitted the possessions of the Church to the tiranny of Valentinian the Emperor For our magistrates do suspect that the strife is but of emulation as though our griefe onely were that they haue wrong those thinges out of our fingers which now they possesse excepte peraduenture they giue it so out not because they thinke so but for that they would thereby discredit our words in that behalfe But yet notwithstanding we must so auoyd suspition that we doe not winke at sacriledge And againe the same maister Caluin in another epistle to Viretus doth signifie vnto him how he dealt with the magistrates of Geneua at one especiall time when there was speach about certaine stipends When I sawe howe hard they were in that matter acriter aurem illis vellicaui c. I made their eares to burn saith he as concerning the administration of Church-goods how in time they were to thinke what account they should make both to God and men Papam fuisse furem et sacrilegum videndum ne simus successores that the Pope was a thiefe and a church robber and they were to looke to it that they proued not his successors I did vse a preface that might cause attention vz. That the woundes of a friend were better c. and that they should not seeke any Balaam qui illis in maledictione benediceret who in their cursed estate should blesse them Hitherto maister Caluin whose wordes I haue set down at large that you might the better vnderstand the estate of the most worthy Reformation of the church of Geneua and how the discipline being there in her full prime and brightnes it is not possible that anye grosse enormities should continue in that Citie Indeed it is much and I meruaile how it is endured that maister Caluin should resemble the magistrates of Geneua to such cruell tyrannouse and sacrilegious persons Valentinian the Emperor and the Pope of Rome But most of all I wonder that maister Beza would publish such letters in print Being but written to priuate men the matter could not be great Marry now they are thus offred to all posteritie the testimonie of such tyrannous sacrilege will be euer had in memorie For which kind of dealing they are much beholden to Beza It was indeed handled of him politickly Of likelyhood the sacrilege mentioned doth continue there still But he being a prouident man thought it better that maister Caluin being dead should tell them of it then he himselfe being aliue and therefore subiect vnto their displeasures For otherwise maister Beza for his parte is as earnest against sacrilege as euer maister Caluin was and it may be for ought I do know or remember to the contrarie that hee hath dealt himselfe as roundly with them But sure I am of his iudgement which doth appeare in his treatise of his three sortes of Bishops where this question being propounded vnto him vz. Whether these thinges which had beene once vowed to holy vses might afterwardes bee otherwise employed he maketh this answere Concerning the goodes of the Church first of all we suppose great heed ought to be taken that none doth staine himselfe with handling the church goods For if God hath taken reuenge of such sacrilege euen amongst the very Idolaters what trow we will his iudgement bee against them which haue spoyled his Church and haue prophaned the thinges which were set a part for his true worship Moreouer it is euident that this turneth greatly to the reproch of the name of God and of his holy gospell as though for sooth papistrie hath beene abandoned not for the loue of the truth but to robbe the Church of her goodes as though new theeues haue entred into the roomes of the olde c. Viretus in like manner for his earnestnes in this pointe is neither short of Caluin not Beza The lesse authoritie that the ministerye and ministers haue the greater libertie haue sacrilegers theeues extortioners and other wicked ones Againe I know many which liked the gospell well when in the beginning their preachers cryed against the abuse that they sayd was in the Romish church and in priests and monkes They liked well also that the goods of the Church should be taken from Priests and Monkes to haue the gouernment of them themselues vnder colour that the Priests and Monkes abused them and that they should be put to better vse but God knoweth how euill they are bestowed vppon manye and in many places The worst is that those which haue not done herein as they ought and which dayly forget themselues more more cannot now a dayes so much as suffer the preachers to admonish reproue them to stir thē vp to bestow it where they ought to bestow it according to the order discipline c. And in another place These fellowes that will not restore the church-liuings may be likened to those Diuils which cry why art thou come to torment vs before our time And the same fellowes also say Qui nostra tollit inimicus est hee that taketh awaye ours is our enemie They regard not whether they haue gotten the goods that they possesse
now that they perceaue the verie great falsehood which they find in their owne fellowship Certaine hypocriticall Bretheren of the Laytie haue clapped them as it seemeth vppon the shoulders followed their sermons set theÌ„ at the vpper ende of their tables and sought by all their strength to procure them credit fauour with the people not that they cared either for them or for ReligioÌ„ or for Christ himselfe but hopinge that by the violent course which they saw these men run into the Bishops the rest of the Cleargie would be groweÌ„ in short time to be so odious as it would be a very small matter to disposses theÌ„ of all their liuings wherof some portioÌ„ might come to their shares Which maÌ„ner of pollicy now you may perceiue these brethreÌ„ haue espied therfore they spare not as you haue hard to set forth such hipocrits in their plainest colors very liuelie in their opinioÌ„ truly God of his infinit mercie multiplie her M. daies that she maie raigne many and manie yeares still ouer vs. If it had not beene for her most princelie and most religious care of the Church the children of Edom had long before this time greatlie indaungered it But this I will say vnto theÌ„ that if euer they obtain their desires which I know they shal neuer do in her highnes time they shal not possesse a pennie worth of the church-goods which I am perswaded will not prooue vnto them to be like the gold of Tholossa wherof none had part that euer prospered afterward I could shew some reasons of this my perswasion but I am a man not verie grateful to that sort of reformers I will therefore spare that paines and the rather because their own maisters hauâ— dealt plainlie inough with them alreadie This onelie I will adde committing it to their discretions to be considered off at their leasures There was neuer anie nation so barbarous but it thought there was a God Againe there was neuer any nation that thought there was a God but it likewise acknoledged that the same God had his priests to teach the people his will Againe there were neuer as yet to my knowledge anie men in the world but belieuing there was a God and acknowledging his Priestes they haue alwaies either in truth or at the least in shew depeÌ„ded vpon their priests instructions as touching the wil seruice of God Which points being true I would gladlie know of anie Sacrilegious Disciplinarian what sort of Priests they are whose aduise he followeth Some he must needs follow except he will professe himselfe to be in the number of those that say in their harts there is no God Doth he follow the Priests of the heatheÌ„ why they euer thought that it was vnlawfull for anie man to spoil his God Doth he follow the Popish Priests There are no men surelie that crie out more earnestly against Sacriledge Doth he follow the councell of any Priestes which haue embraced the Gospell No Priest that feareth God will teach him so Some Priests in this latter age haue beene mistaken But if anie did euer teach so he may perceaue by that which I haue said that they haue repented them of it For nowe they tell all who will be their schollers that they may not indeuour to alienate the church-liuinges from the ministerie Or if they will needes vnder pretence of zeale and shewe of religion seeke to deuoure Christes patrimony then they doe vtterfly disclaime renounce them from being of their Disciples any loÌ„ger Then Zuickius assureth them that they are but hypocriticall christians Caluin compareth them be they the Magistrates of Geneua or of anie other countrie to cruel tyraunts and saith they are the Popes successors in theft and robberie Beza is resolute that God will be reuenged of such persons telleth theÌ„ they are new theeues that haue entred in place of the old theeues Viretus maketh them wors then friers monks resembleth them to white diuels Trauers saith in effect that they are christs mortall enemies and would crucifie him againe for his coate if they might laie their hands on him Cartwright calleth them cormorants and likeneth them to Iudas the Traitor certifying them that in spoiling of the Church they purchase to themselues a field of blood The whole comminaltie of England complaineth and crieth against theÌ„ that they hate Christ that they defraud God of his glorie that they are all the sort of them no better then Achan Nabuchadnezar Baltasar Ananias or Saphira that the punishment which did light vpon these church robbers shall light vppon them either in this life or in the world to come and that they are to be reckoned amongst those vniust persons that shall neuer enter into the kingdome of heauen So as this is the point which as I said I doe commit vnto the inward cogitations of all prophane Church-robbers vz. to thinke with themselues what God they serue and what Priests they are that teach them suche lewd doctrine or if none teach them so whether in taking so execrable a course of their own heads they condemne not themselues in their own consciences There is here no refuge for anie such persons that I knowe of or anie replie to be made against the premises Except they will saie that Barrowes God is their God that Greenwood is their Priest and that they are all of them deuoted to Greenwood and Barrow Greenwood is but a simple fellow Barrow is the man And will sacrilegious persons become Barrowists I easilie belieue it Like will to like When Barrow by roisting and gaming had wasted himselfe and was â—unne so far into manie a mans debt that he durst not shew his head abroad he bent his wits another waie to mischiefe and is now become a Iulianist deuising by all the meanes he can possiblie imagine his hypocrisie railing lying and all manner of falshood euen as Iulian the Apostata did how all the preferments which yet remaine for learning Benefices Tithes GlebelaÌ„d Cathedrall Churches Bishops liuings Colledges Vniuersities and all might be vtterlie spoiled and made a pray for Bancrouts Cormorants such like Atheists Well to conclude come the spoile of the church hereafter when for our sinnes it shall manie mischiefes and great confusion will follow it The Church-liuings will serue but a few mens turnes The particular parishes in England may whistle after their parts of that praie and so may our new maisterships Eldership There are examples in the world where al the Church-liuings are consumed by a few and the parishes stand burdened as they were before Mary if they should be then so ouerburdened with so manie new paimeÌ„ts as I spake of in the last chapter they would neuer be able to endure it And therfore it is verie high time that our zealous Disciplinarians should inueigh against Church-robbers and that the coÌ„mon people should likewise remember the points of Sacriledge and sacrilegious persons which they haue published to the world
their followers and that all men both Princes and others would be content to submitte their neckes vnder that yoke Which were to make Princes saith Erastus trulie quasi carniâ—ices as it were the executioners onely of their pleasures quemadmâ—dunâ— in Papatu factum videmus as we see it practised in the Papacy and in truth is nothing els but that I may vse their phrases to banish one Pope and admitte of thousands or to deliuer their Scepters from the tyrannie of the old Pope and to subiect them to the tyranny of these new Popes euen to excommunication as Cartwright with his English crue doe affirme and so consequently to depriuation or death as Buchanan the Scottishe Consistorian teacheth My purpose is only in this place to make it knowne from whence our brotherhood haue furnished themselues with their inuectiues against the authoritye of Princes in causes ecclesiasticall and that whatsoeuer they pretend in words yet they are of the same minde that Viretus is if they durst so plainly vtter it Or if they be not let them confes in print that the premisses cited out of his sayde dialogue are false and then for that pointe let them be credited But that I am perswaded they will neuer doe I am sure if they should that besides their opposition with Geneua they should also recant their owne assertions which directly exclude the ciuile magistrates from dealing in ecclesiasticall causes As for example The whole gouernment of the Church is to be committed to Ministers Elders Deacons The church is now to the worldes end to haue no other offices in it but of pastors Doctors Elders and Deacons They which are no Elders of the Church haue nothing to doe in the gouernment of the same They deuide the Church wherein anye Magistrate King or Emperor is a member into those which are to gouerne vz. Pastors Doctors and Elders and into such as are to obey vz. magistrates of all sortes the people Indeed Beza will haue the ciuile magistrate one of the Church-officers But Cartwright will not consent for his part to yeald them so much For saith he as Pastors cannot bee officers of the common wealth no more can the magistrate bee called properlye a church-officer And in truth what Beza graunteth it is in effect nothing sauing for a shew and to serue their own turnes forsooth vt tranquillitatem ecclesiae procurent â—t tueantur Their office is to procure and defend the peace of the Church whereas else where hee agreeth with Viretus yee may bee sure and in his Booke against Erastus peremptorily affirmeth That Princes haue no more to doe with matters of the Church then Ministers haue with the affayres of the common wealth Which by their doctrine generallie is none at all But saide I hee agreeth with Viretus I might saie rather with Cardinall Allen and Saunders if he bee the author of the Booke intituled Vindicie contra Tyrannos as it was reported For there hee saith that if anie Prince shall challenge to himselfe both Tributes that is authoritie aswell in Ecclesiasticall causes as ciuile as by the circumstances of the place it is euident hee doth as if hee would like the old Giaunts scale heauen and surprise it and is guiltie of treason and doth thereby forfeite his fee that hee holdeth no lesse than a subiect or vassall shall that vsurpeth the kinges royaltyes and in this respect such kinges are very often depriued thereof much more iustlye then a vassall or subiecte maye bee insomuch as there is some proportion of comparison betwixte a vassall or subiect and his Lorde but betwixt God and the king betwixt a wretched man and the Almightie there can bee no proportion at all Furthermore Cartwright and some others with him do affirme that Kings and princes do holde their kingdomes and dominions vnder Christ as hee is the sonne of God onlye before all worldes coequall with the father and not as hee is mediator the heade and gouernor of the Church Whereuppon they doe first builde that all Kinges aswell heathen as Christian receiuing but one commission and equall authoritie immediately from God haue no more to doe with the Church the one sorte then the other as being in no respect deputed for Church officers vnder Christ otherwise then if they bee good Kinges to maintaine and defende it And secondlye that as God hath appoynted all Kinges and Ciuile Magistrates his immediate Lieutenants for the gouernment of the worlde in temporall causes so Christ as hee is mediator and gouernour of his Church hath his immediate officers to rule in the Church vnder him and those they saie are no other then Pastors Doctors and Elders to whom they ascribe as large authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall And all this as I take it they haue learned of the Papists For whereas maister Harding saith that the office of a King in it selfe is all one euerie where not onely amongst the Christian Princes but also amonge the Heathen and thereuppon concludeth that a christian Prince hath no more to doe in the deciding of church-matters or in making ceremonies and orders for the Church then a Heathen Cartwright alloweth of his iudgement and doth expresly affirme that hee himselfe is of the same opinion professing his mislike of those who teach another right of a Christian and of a prophane magistrate Whereat Trauerse his scholler aymeth in like sorte when hee saith in effect that heathen princes being conuerted to the fayth receiue no further increase of theyr power whereby they maye deale in causes ecclesiasticall then they had before And lastly it is no lesse agreeable vnto their seconde assertion that whereas the Papists saye the Pope with his Cardinalls and Bishops are a true representation of the Catholicke Church of Christ vnder whom the Pope being Peters supposed Successor is the ministeriall and immediate chiefe gouernour of it here vppon earth now Cartwright and others doe affirme that euerye particular parish hauing such an Eldershippe in it as they desire is a liuelye patterne and representation of the whole and catholicke Church of Christe vnder whom saye they their Pastors Doctors and Elders are the ministeriall and immediate gouernours by right of euery such Catholicke parish-Church vppon earth And thus if I bee not deceiued that playnelye appeareth which was in the beginning of this Chapter propounded vz. that for all their protestations they derogate from Christian Princes and arrogate to their Elderships the supreame and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes ecclesiasticall CHAP. XXIII In the oppugning of Princes authoritye in causes Ecclesiasticall they ioyne with the Papists THere is nothing will lightlye anger our pretended Brotherhood more then if ti be tolde them that they denie in effect with the common aduersaries her Maisties lawefull stile and prerogatiue Royall in causes ecclesiasticall Oâ— saye they wee doe not wee are slaundered wee yealde vnto her Highnes
that for as much as Christ is neuer seuered from his body nor from any part of it and is able and dooth performe that vvherefore he is called head vnto all his Church therefore there is no need of any subordinate head ouer any particular Church or as he sayth there can be none As if a man should reason thus Christ is our sauiour our priest our prophet and our king Christ is our sheapheard our doctor and our archbishop Christ is neuer absent from his church nor euer will be and he is able to performe that wherefore he is called our sauiour our priest our prophet our pastor our doctor our bishop our archbishop our archfeeder therefore we need no priests pastors doctors bishops or archbishops neither ought there to be any such subordinate or ministeriall meanes allowed of or permitted for the sayd benefits of building teaching and gathering of the church The collections in my opinion are both alike Againe by the same phrase of speech that Christ as mediator is called by him els-where the head of euery particular church and in that respect euery particular church is tearmed his body So Christ as he is the sonne of God only to graunt him for a minute so much being the head of euery particular kingdome it may be said that euery particular kingdome is his body Now then whereas he reasoneth thus very grauely in his owne iudgement If the church be the body of Christ and of the ciuile magistrat it should haue tvvo heads vvhich vvere monstrous Why may not I in like sort make this inference if the common-wealth be the body of Christ and of the ciuile magistrat it should haue two heads which were mōstrous which collection being ridiculous by his own phrase offspeech his said argumēt is also ridiculous For my part certainly I do thinke that the word heard as it is yeelded to christiā princes signifying nothing els as I sayd but a cheefe ruler I see no cause then why it should be a more monstrous thing for thē to be subordinat rulers of the church vnder christ then to see princes thrust downe and six or seuen base persons a malster a brewer a baker a mason a smith a butcher a tinker and such like aduanced to that so high an authoritie Well as our prouerbe sayth Be it as it bee may and that is no banning If Princes will bee thus dallyed withall let them for me and they shall bee the first that will repent it But vvhat should they do when they heare their authoritie so substantially impugned by so worthie persons with such inuincible arguments such demonstrations such collections such concurrencie in their opinions such concord such notable agreement together in their grounds for that purpose Indeed you will say so when you shall see how after they haue foiled princes in such sort as it hath bene declared they intitle themselues and their wise and worshipfull Eldermen to their authoritie You cannot imagine mens bodies to be faster tied together with the strongest rope that euer was made of sand then their minds and iudgements are fast lincked and vnited in this matter As now it shall partly appeare after I haue layd before you three or foure of their new quircks very pertinent to this place some of them haue bene alreadie touched but you cannot heare a good thing too often They affirme if I can vnderstand them that euery wel ordered parish hauing an Eldership in it is the perfect bodie of Christ that Christ is properly to be called as well the head of euery such particular body or church as he is of the Catholicke church Against whome by the way I might oppose a chiefe diuine of New stadium a Consistorian towne in the Palsgraues countrie who sayth that as the Church is called the body of Christ it properly signifieth Solos electos the elect onely and that all particular churches as the members of the Catholike church do make but one body of Christ vvhereof hee is to bee called especially the head But I will not stand vpon these points onely I touch them that it might still appeare how well they agree together Then to proceed The same men likewise affirme that euery one of their mentioned well ordered parishes is a representation and as it vvere a liuely portraiture of the vvhole or Catholicke church and that singularum ecclesiarum idem est ius euery such parish Catholicke church hath equall authoritie no more one then another And now I draw nere to the pith of this matter For as touching the gouernment of euery one of these particular bodies of Christ or of euery one of these demie catholicke churches they hold that princes being iustly dispossessed their pastors doctors and aldermen are by right Christs immediat and subordinat lieutenants or vicars generall But now for as much as our sauiour Christ say some of them is a priest a prophet and a king and all in respect that he is both God and man our only mediator and redeemer Here beginneth a new skitmish from which of these his dignities they must deriue their interest whether their said vice-gerents are to challenge their soueraigntie from Christ as he is a priest from Christ as hee is a prophet or frō Christ as he is a king For as the great learned clearke that made the booke of ecclesiastical and ciuile policie affirmeth vvhosoeuer is to be called Christs vicar hee must be so tearmed either in respect of all those his three offices or of tvvo of them or of one at the least It hath bene commonly held heretofore that Christ taking vpon him the ministerie of the gospell to preach and teach the same did ordaine his Apostles and disciples to ioine with him in that part of his priestly office In regard whereof it hath also bene defended against the papists that euery lawfull minister is as much the vicar of Christ or his substitute to teach his people as the bishop of Rome and that they ought all of them equally when they preach the word pray for the people or administer the sacraments to be receiued heard and intertained as Christs embassadors Christs ministers euen as though Christ himself in his own person did presently here vpon earth execute these offices Besides it is vrged by the Counterpoizer many other that Christ hauing translated the Iewes Sanedrim into his church he hath appointed vnto vs for the Ievves priests our pastors and for their teaching Leuits our doctors c. Whereby it followeth that if the priests of the old law were Christs vicars as he was their priest the pastors ought so to be in the time of the gospel But the excellēt politian he vseth the matter in such sort as by no means the ministers of the word may haue any tenure of their offices vnder christ as he is priest Ne ipsi quidē pastores erunt Christi sacerdotis vicarij quod tamen falso
that question were resolued but that point standeth vppon an if Nay assure yourselues it is past peraduenture they would take it in great scorne that such a matter should rest vndecided Where it is held by the Churches of Heluetia that such Elderships as they of Geneua talke of are needlesse where there is a Christian magistrate and thereupon the now L. Archbishop of Canterbury for disputations sake reasoning that if there were any such Elders then yet it doth not followe they should bee receiued now Cartwright and his schollers are peremptorie that the offices of those Elderships are the rather to bee continued vnder a Christian magistrate And the learned Discourser sayth as confidently in the like case that the same authoritie which the Church had before there was a Christian Magistrate doth still continue when there is one or else as he addeth we would be glad to learne how this authoritie was translated from the Church in which it was once lawfully vsed vnto the ciuill Magistrate Agreeable to both which resolutions is that saying of Trauerse That Heathen Princes being become Christians doe receiue no further increase of their authoritie than they had before while they were in paganisme It is well By these rules then all is theirs They are Kings Princes the very immediate vicegerentes of Iesus Christ vppon earth And good reason they should then haue both the swords nay twenty swords if there were so many And besides seeing they haue to deale in all causes they must haue all lawes in the closets of their brestes at the least authoritate let scientia come by Cartwrights deuise vpon the suddaine into them how it may at leysure But hereof sufficiently Howsoeuer they crie our against our Bishoppes for intermedling with mo matters than they are able to discharge yet you see into what an infinite sea of affaires they would thrust their Elderships allowing generally that in themselues which formerly they haue condemned in others As by the next Chapter it will appeare more plainely vnto you CHAP. XXVI Those things they reprooue as vnlawfull in others they allow in themselues THere is nothing better knowne than with what contempt and bitternesse diuers amongst vs haue written against the authoritie of Bishoppes especially Archbishops and yet I perceiue that if they might attaine to such an authoritie it would bee well enough accepted For thus their Maister Beza writeth What was ordayned in times past concerning the appointing of prouinciall Synodes by the Metropolitane appeareth manifestly by the olde Canons Neither are we the men who if the ruines of Churches were repayred doo thinke eyther that order or some other like vnto it to be reiected So as these two things bee obserued That a tyrannie be not brought againe into the Church as though the holy Ghost were tyed to some certaine seate or person and that all thinges should be doone to edification c. Indeede hee is already the Primate Archbishop or Metropolitane in effect of all the prouince of Geneua or at the least hee easily foresaw that if anie such order should bee restored againe amongst them hee was the onely man for that great preferment When this worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the sixt Canon of the Councell of Nice is brought and vrged to proue the authoritie right and iurisdiction of the Bishop of Alexandria ouer the Churches in diuers countries there mentioned then it must signifie nothing in that place if wee shall beleeue Cartwright but onely a dignitie or preheminence in meetings to goe or sit before the rest But if you talke of the power authoritie and iurisdiction of their Eldershippes then sayth Danaeus Vox potestatis in hac disputatione significat 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the word of power signifieth as this Greeke worde doth properly import And what is that Forsooth Ius authoritatem alicuius gubernationis illi traditae id est alicuius reigerendae regendae Right and authoritie of some gouernment giuen vnto such a power that is of the gouernement and rule of some thing Nowe if this worde might haue beene so happie as to haue retained this signification in the sayde Councell of Nice where there is speach of Bishops Cartwright had beene put to his plunge and Bezaes annotation mentioned would not haue helped him a rush There is nothing more vsually obiected against the present estate superioritie and authoritie of Bishoppes than the place of Peter Neque vt dominantes in cleris Not as though yee were Lordes ouer the Clergie And that of Luke 22. Vos autem non sic But you shall not be so And it will not bee admitted in anie wise that wee should expound those places of ambitious affectation of tyrannous practise or of the abuse of such superioritie â—or iurisdiction But if you will speake of the right authoritie and iurisdiction of their Elderships the case is cleane altered There are some as it seemeth beyond the seas who seeing the pride of the consistorian gouernement doe affirme That the power of the Church is onely spirituall and not any external exercise practise and right of any authoritie power and gouernment With this opposition so much derogating from the dignitie of their Elderships Danaeus is mooued and answering that conceit sayth that although the power of the Church ad animarum salutem sit comparata be instituted for the health of soules yet notwithstanding it hath necessarily annexed vnto it an indissoluble band an externall exercise practise and vse iuris gubernationis of lawe and gouernment Against this aunswere replye as it seemeth is made with the same places mentioned that are vrged against our Bishops Whervpon Danaeus to make all thinges cleare addeth these wordes to his former aunswere and publisheth the same from Geneua Nam quod c. Whereas it may bee obiected out of Peter Non dominantes c. Not bearing rule c. And out of Luke Vos autem non sic but you shall not be so Facilè soluitur it is easily aunswered Damnatur enim partim abusus non vsus illius potestatis partim illius cum ciuili confusio for partly the abuse is condemned not the vse of that power and partly the confusion of it with the ciuill power Which is the verie aunswere that wee doe make and approoue beeing extorted from them by Gods good prouidence for the stopping of our mens mouthes who vppon pretence of those places haue opened them so wide against the lawfull authoritie of our Bishops It hath beene greatly grudged-at by these reformers that Bishoppes are allowed to bee of the vpper house of Parliament and saine they would haue them out if they knew how Notwithstanding for ought I can finde they haue enioyed that honourable prerogatiue euer since there was an high Court of Parliament in England And still the worde of God is made the pretence for whatsoeuer they desire so as euer you vnderstand that they
all these thinges are ascribed I say by him vnto the exacting of the sayde subscription Howbeit yet Cartwright and his confederates could take vppon them in a seditious sort to require a secrete subscription amongst theyr fauourers vnto such a forme of newe Church gouernement as hee with the rest of that crue after many meetinges and alterations had deuised Wherein if theyr fancies might once take place subscriptions would not seeme so daintie as now they doe For there is subscription required vpon subscription No man is to bee chosen vnto anie ecclesiasticall office with them Nisi qui disciplinae subscripserit except he haue subscribed to theyr discipline Whosoeuer is to bee of any of their assemblyes eyther classicall prouinciall or nationall hee must first haue subscribed to their discipline And not thus content it is there also further ordred that none shalbe admitted to the holy Communion except they submit themselues vnto theyr discipline So as heereby euery temporall man of what calling soeuer is brought vnder theyr subiection Of likelyhood they thinke that no man can be a worthy receiuer of that holy Sacrament that is not well perswaded of their counterfait platform At Geneua whosoeuer is to be admitted into their schoole he must first subscribe to theyr discipline And not that onely but he is tyed to make a publike confession of that fayth wherein theyr forme of discipline is comprised for an Articlē And the like confession is also requyred of all them that will receyue the Communion there But what talke I of subscriptions or professions Maister Caluin when that discipline was first set vp procured a generall oath to bee taken throughout the Cittie for the approbation of it Whosoeuer also is made Minister there he sweareth to keepe theyr ecclesiasticall ordinances and consequently the discipline there practised All theyr Elders in like maner thogh one of them be one of the Syndicks doe take an oath to the same effect when they sweare to perfourme theyr office faythfully and to bring all thinges to the Consistorie which are worthie to bee brought before it As if the soueraigne heere should take an oath to bee a promoter But that which is moste of all they haue preuayled so much with the Magistrates and there is good cause why that it is made death for any man to lette or stoppe or cause to hinder the worde and seruice of God and his holy Gospell Within which compasse you maye bee sure theyr discipline is comprehended Our men as yet talke in their platforme but of subscriptions but if once they had gotten so much then forward must the rest or els they would bee angry How carelesly subscription is exacted in England I am ashamed to report Such is the retchlesnes of many of our Bishoppes on the one side and theyr desire to bee at ease and quietnes to thinke vppon their owne affayres and on the otherside such is the obstinacie and intollerable pride of that factious sorte as that betwixt both sides eyther subscription is not at all required or if it be the Bishops admit them so to quallifie it that it were better to bee omitted altogether If the best and the learnedst man in Christendome were in Geneua and shoulde oppose himselfe to any thing that the Church there holdeth if hee escaped with his life he might thanke God but hee shoulde bee sure not to continue as a Minister there There is no Church established in Christendome so remisse in this point as the Church of England For in effecte euery man vseth and refuseth what hee lifteth Some few of late haue beene restrained who had almost raysed the lande into an open sedition But else they followe theyr owne fancies and may not bee dealt withall forsooth for feare of disquietnes No man shall euer perswade mee but that the worde of God dooth giue as free libertie to the Church of England for the repressing of such scismaticks as eyther to Geneua or to any other Church whatsoeuer There is a kind of oath tearmed an oath ministred Ex officio which is and alwayes hath beene ministred in certayne causes in euery Court almost within the Realme but especially in the chiefest This kinde of oath beeing ministred also by her Maiesties Commissioners in causes ecclesiastical for these foar and thyrtie yeares is now especially greatly impugned and many exceptions are taken agaynst it As a man maye not bee driuen to confesse any thing against himselfe nor his godly brethren what you will charge vs with proue it You may not admit an accusation against an Elder vnder two or three witnesses If you haue witnesses why aske you vs And many such like obiections are made maintained Howbeit this opposition is altogether without consideration and by them that knowe not what they do For at Geneua this manner of oath is currant And I am sure the brotherhood heere would bee verie loth to oppose themselues against any point of doctrine that is allowed of there It fortuned vppon a time that certayne persons meeting together at one widdow Balthasars house in Geneua to be merrie did there daunce Maister Caluin hearing of this horrible sinne forsooth procured them all both dauncers and beholders to bee called before him and his Elders in the Consistorie When they appeared Caluin tooke vppon him to examine them and vsed as hee tearmeth them certaine holy obtestations that they should tell him truely whether there were any such dauncing or no where it was and who daunced c. They denied the matter wholy which he expresseth Apostlelike in these words Impudenter nobis Deo mentiti sunt They lyed impudently to God and vs Excandui I grewe pale with anger saith hee and inueighed eagerly against such theyr contempt of God But they continued in theyr contumacie Whereupon Caluin the matter as hee sayth being certainely knowne vnto him protested before God Poenas tantae perfidiae daturos That they should bee punished for such theyr falshood And because hee could not otherwise get the truth from them Censui vt iureiurando ad veri confessionem adigerentur I iudged it meete sayth hee that by oath they should bee compelled to confesse the truth It should seeme they made the like exceptions that our contumacious fellows do make And one Henriche a Minister as it seemeth who as I take it daunced not but did in some sorte by waye of supposition if any such dauncing had been take vppon him to defende it as not beeing a matter to keepe such a stirre about alleadged the verie same place that Cartwright did in the Consistorie at Paules and the which all the rest of that brotherhood doe commonly alleadge vz. Against an Elder receiue no accusation but vnder two or three witnesses But how was this allegation liked of Surely it was laughed at tearmed by Caluin Altercatio non illepida a pleasant ieast It seemeth also that besides the threatning speeches mentioned there
were other vsed in like manner which did more terrifie them For saith Caluin Tandem adieci c. At the length I added further that they must build themselues another Cittie and liue therein by themselues except they would bee contayned heere vnder the yoake of Christ hee meaneth theyr Consistorie and that as long as they liued in Geneua they did striue but in vaine not to obey the lawes there Well by what meanes they were drawne vnto their oath I will not stand vpon it but sworne they were and so confessed all Whereupon Omnes in carcerem coniecti They were all cast into prison Amongst the sayd dauncers besides the said Henriche who was depriued of his Ministerie and committed to prison for three dayes there was in that company one of the foure Syndickes or chiefe Magistrates of the Cittie and hee was remooued from his office vntill hee had giuen some testimonie of his repentance which vppon the admonition of the said Consistorie hee presently did as it seemeth and so escaped prison There was also an other in that meeting named Perrin the Captaine of the Cittie as I take it a man with whome Caluin had many quarrels Hee as it seenieth perceiuing by Caluins eagernes what would fall out about that sporte got himselfe to Lyons hoping before his returne Rem tacitè sepultam iri That the matter would bee deade and buryed But sayth Caluin of him after his returne Quicquid agat poenam non effugiet Doe what he can hee shall not escape vnpunished In this Perrins absence his wife Francisca hearing as I suppose that Caluin shold vtter some harde and angry wordes agaynst her husband rayled both against him and the rest of the Consistoriall associates But Caluin aunswered her Vt merebatur as shee deserued And this was the ende of that inquisition Perrin with his wife were committed to prison as the rest of his fellowes had been hee for dauncing and shee I thinke for rayling Whereof Maister Caluin wrote thus to his friend Perrinus cum vxore fremit in carcere Vidua prorsus insanit alij pudore confusi silent Perrin with his wife dooth frette in prison the widdowe Balthasar is quite madde other beeing ashamed doe holde theyr peace Heere was good Consistorian and round dealing It should appeare that Caluin tooke as much vppon him as some Bishoppes or Commissioners in England doe But why shoulde I stande so long vppon this example It maye bee sayde wee must not lyue by examples And it is true Heare therefore for the conclusion of this poynte a Canon of the reformed Churches in Fraunce The faythfull may bee constrayned by the Consistorie to say the truth so farre foorth as it derogateth nothing from the authoritie of the Magistrate Constrayned this may reach farre But the worde of God alloweth them there it should seeme what they lift In my opinion if such maner of proceeding be lawfull at Geneua and in Fraunce it may in some sorte be tolerated in England It is a thing too manifest with what libelling and rayling the forme of our seruice of our ceremonies of our ornamentes of our apparrell c. hath beene depraued and shamefully slaundered As That our Communion booke was culled out of the Popes Portuise this was abused in Poperie that is papisticall it were better to conforme our selues in outward thinges to the Turkes than to the Papistes These and those thinges were deuised by the Pope that Antichristian beast Whatsoeuer commeth from the Pope which is Antichrist commeth first from the deuill If of the egges of a Cockatrice can be made wholsome meate to feede with or of a spyders webbe any cloth to couer withall then maye also the thinges that come from the Pope and the Deuill bee good profitable and necessarie vnto the Church Against these and many such lyke speeches aunswere hath beene made that it is lawfull to trie all things and to holde that which is good That these thinges which are good were not so defiled by theyr beeing in the Popes portuise but that they might bee taken thence and vsed That we must distinguish betwixt the abuse of a thing and the lawfull vse of it That it is no good reason the Papists abused this therefore wee maye not vse it That as good men sometimes deuise that which is euill so euill men may sometimes deuise that which is profitable c. But all these aunsweres and a number more besides to the same effect are misliked denyed and condemned by these our factioners Howbeit vppon occasion the streame is turned and they themselues are driuen to make the verie same aunsweres for the iustifiyng of their owne proceedinges and for the maintenance of certaine particular matters which they doe vrge and allowe of It hath beene layde to their charge that for all theyr goodly pretences of reformation yet indeede the courâ—e they helde did smell most rankly of Anabaptisme Donatisme and of a newe kinde of Papisme As where tâ—ey disquiet the peace of the Churches already reformed rayle vppon our Ministers and theyr calling affirme that our Sacramentes are not sincerely ministred that there is no Church as it should bee but those that they like of that our ceremonies and orders are all vnlawfull that we haue no lawfull Ministers nor Bishoppes that Princes may not deale in causes ecclesiasticall c. These and manye such like poyntes beeing layde to theyr charge Cartwright as though hee had neuer dreamed of any thing to the contrary frameth this generall aunswere in the name of all his fraternitie If amongst the filth of their heresies vz. of Papistes Anabaptistes and Donatistes there may bee found any good thing as it were a grayne of good corne in a great deale of darnell that wee willingly receyue not as theyrs but as the Iewes did the holy Arke from the Philistines whereof they were vniust owners For heerein it is true that is said The sheepe must not laye downe her fell because shee seeth the Wolfe sometyme cloathed with it Yea it maye come to passe that the Synagogue of Sathan maye haue some one thing at some time with more conuenience than the true and Catholicke Church of Christ. Such was the ceremonie of powring water once onelye vppon the childe in Baptisme vsed with vs and in the moste reformed Churches which in some age was vsed by those of the Eunomian heresie Hitherto Cartwright Whose aunswere if it bee true dooth concurre with ours and may stay his owne and his fellowes gyddinesse heereafter Cartwright was purposed once to haue been Doctor of Diuinitie And thereof hee writeth in this sorte I had the aduise of more than a doozen learned Ministers who considering that I had the office of a Doctor in the Vniuersitie were of opinion that for the good they esteemed might bee doone thereby I might swallowe the fonde and idle ceremonies which accompany it To the request of which friendes I yeelded But when his
Bishoppes grounding themselues vppon one of Cartwrightes principles That any increase of authoritie being added to a Church-Minister dooth cleane chaunge his Ministerie and maketh it a new Ministerie Whervpon they conclude that Archbishoppes and Bishoppes hauing receyued an increase of theyr authorities by diuerse Councelles c. are become to bee of a newe Ministerie neuer ordayned by Christ nor his Apostles and so consequently vnlawfull and to bee abolished The follie of this collection hath beene shewed manie wayes both by reasons and by examples but yet they haue not beene satisfied But nowe you shall see they are put to silence for euer For Beza is peremptorie to the contrarie of that which they haue so inforced In his booke agaynst Doctor Sarauia speaking of a place of Ieromes how Bishoppes were ordayned for orders sake c. hee sayth in effecte That when they had such authoritie giuen then for orders sake Mutatio non suit in re ipsa id'est in ipso ordine sed tantùm in ordinis modo There was no chaunge made in the thinge it selfe that is in the order but in the manner or measure of the order And afterwards more plainely where hee setteth downe another manner of principle than Cartwrightes vz. That wee must distinguish betweene the nature of a thing and that which adhereth vnto it accidentally because Eo in aliud cōmutato vel sublato res ipsa permanet The accident beeing chaunged or taken away the thing it selfe remaineth Whereupon if I vnderstande him he groweth to this issue That the increase of any such authority as is before mentioned or the alteration of the manner or order is not of the essence of the Ministery but a thing that is accidentall and may be chaunged according to the circumstaunces of times and places And hee bringeth this example Accidentale fuit c. It was accidentall c. Vt vnusquispiam iudicio caeierorum compresbyterorum delectus presbyterio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 esset permaneret That one beeing chosen by the iudgement of the rest of his fellow-priests or Elders should be the President or the Prelate ouer the presbytery and so continue You will aske mee perhaps how this geare comes about that Beza is so opposite to Cartwright I will tell you my conceit I suppose that matters of their pretended Discipline are growen to greater ripenes in Geneua then they are thankes be to God in England and that therfore Beza is more franke to let vs see what they generallie shoote at then Cartwright dare bee as yet For howsoeuer Cartwright presumed to tell vs as it seemeth vntrulie that their moderator forsooth should be chosen but for one action only and that Caluin being chosen to that office for two yeares so as I take it from two yeares to two yeares misliked that small preheminence should so long remayne with one which in time might breede inconuenience and that Beza also misliked it for that cause Yet now you see that Beza is far from that base conceit thinketh that that office maie bee permanent and further saith that to ordaine it so now certè reprehendi nec potest nec debet it neyther can nor ought surely to bee reprehended And his reason is this for that it hath beene an order that one should bee so chosen to haue such a permanent preheminece in the Church euer since Saint Markes time Nay he is come to this that he is content to yeald in effect that the institution of an Archbishop is agreable to the word of God vz. ex illa generali et verissima Apostolica regula c. according to that generall true Apostolicall rule which appoynteth that all thinges should bee done orderly in the house of God Est igitur or do c. There is therefore saith hee an order in it selfe and by it selfe prescribed by God but the reason or vse of that order and the manner of it dependeth vppon the circumstances of times places and persons and is as men speake according to Lawes positiue Nowe if these thinges that Beza writteth bee true and that he himselfe peraduenture could bee well inough pleased to enioye such an office if the sayde circumstances of time and place might serue his turne to obtaine it then we perceaue that such additions of titles and preheminence so he and his fellowes may haue them do make no such alteration of the essence of the ministerie as with vs is pretended There is great barking against the church of England for that by Act of parliament some partes of the Canon Law are retained and to bee vsed by our Bishops for the better gouernment of the Church insomuch as the very name of the Canon law is become odious the commō sort of simple men of the factious crue verily supposing that the name of such a law rule or institution is popish vnlawfull and diuelish and therfore they crie out crucifie it crucifie it awaie with it wee will not be ruled by it we will none of it As though they shoúld saye we are lawlesse men for rules and orders we detest them whatsoeuer seemeth good in our own eyes that we will doe at the least if we euer yeald our obediēce to any churchlaw it shall bee surelie of our own making sie vppon all former Councels sie vppon all those decisions which the auncient fathers made sie vpon all old and auncient constitutions And thus in effect they write speake in their libels and ordinarie table-talke whereas notwithstanding if there be anie thing in the Canon-law that will serue their purposes they can be contēt to steale it thence to take to themselues thereby the commendation which is due to the true authors fathers of it Cartwright his fraternitie in their essentiall draught of discipline haue drawen more then seuen partes of eight of it out of the Canon-lawe and auncient constitutions Viretus perceiuing but too late what hindrance grew to the platforme of their new discipline by the vtter abolishing of the Canon-law at once and as it were in a furie which he supposed did wold still haue bridled princes if it had been retained and still in force sheweth his dislike of such rashnes in these wordes They thought it a goodly reformation in the Church to abolish all the Canons decrees with the good statutes which the auncient fathers and Doctors hadde ordayned to mayntaine the good discipline in the church The chiefe point indeed that grieued Viretus as there it appeareth at large was this because Princes by that meanes had drawen their necks frō vnder the yoke of discipline A matter so much misliked by them as that he is flatte of opinion that it had beene better for the Church to haue kept the old Pope still then by abrogating of the Canon law and in giuing to Princes so great authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall so to haue subiected her selfe to a new kind of papacie
mentem vobis veniebat amplissimus ille Nicenae c. Did you not remember the moste worthy assemblye of Nice of Ephesus of Calcedon quo nihil vn quā sanctius nihil augustius ab Apostolorum excessu sol vnquam aspexit The Sonne it selfe hath neuer beheld since the Apostles departure out of this world any thing that was more holy or more excellent then those assemblies were Thus I say both Beza Cartwright and the rest of the Disciplinarie humor doe write both of the auncient Fathers and of the olde Councels when they please them in any matter But otherwise let anie of them all naie iointlie al of them together impugne anie part of the new pretended Discipline or crosse them there Oh they touch the apple of euerie one of their eies they care not for their authorities they despise their decrees they cannot endure them as now it shall be shewed in the next Chapter following CHAP. XXVII How they deale with the auncient Fathers Ecclesiasticall Histories and generall councels when they are alledged against them WHen for the proofe of sundrie matters impugned by them they are vrged with the testimonies of the auncient Fathers and of the Ecclesiasticall Histories they either shift them off with their owne false gloses or if that serue not their turne they disgrace them as much as they can and so reiect them Where Ignatius ascribeth verie much to a Bishop as that nothinge should bee done in the Church without his consent and saith that hee hath a principality and power ouer all ascribing vnto him in that respect the title of Prince of Priestes they expound the word Priestes to signifie both Ministers of the word and ruling Elders the saide power ouer all to extend but onelie to the saide kindes of Priests in one parish and the name Prince to meane no more but as it were a moderator chosen out of those Ministers for one meeting onlie to propound such matters as were then to be handled to collect the voices and to moderat that action Which interpretation is onely framed according to the practise of Geneua and such great Churches as Cartwright tearmeth them which haue saith he diuerse Ministers and ruling Elders in them and is God knoweth as far from Ignatius meaning and words as falshoode is from the trueth And yet either thus he must speake or els if you presse them further then they shall well like of the poore old Father is straight way reiected as a counterfaite and a vaine man It being shewed according to Ireneus wordes vz. that the Apostles committed the Churches in euery place to the Bishops and that euerie one of the Apostles seuerally did appoint Bishops in those Churches which they had planted as S. Paul did at Ephesus and Creta Cartwright answereth thus For the explositiō of Ireneus which interpreteth They euery one seuerally if they seuerally ordained Bishops euery one in his circuit so it be vnderstood with the Churches consent as is before declared I am well content Are yee so Surely it is great ioy of you And what is before declared Forsooth Maister Beza in effect saith that the Apostles did not appoint any Bishops that is any Pastor Doctor or ruling Elder by their owne authority but the choise of euery Church-officer being first made by consent of the whole parishe Then any Apostle that was present did consecrat the saide partie so chosen vnto the Lorde by laying his handes vppon him nomine Presbyterij in the name of the Presbyterie This is then the issue that Ireneus must stande to Except hee will frame his speach after the newe cutte euen according to Bezaes pleasure Cartwright you see will not allowe him If he were now aliue hee might well thinke scorne to be thus vsed by either of them both contrarie to his owne meaning Iustinus Martyr being brought to witnes for Bishops and their authoritie in his time about the yeare 130. which was some nine yeares after Sainct Iohns death where he calleth euerie such B. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is prelate because the ruling of the Ministerie people within his circuit appertained chiefly to his charge Cartwright termeth this seeking into the fathers writings to find out the historical truth of this cause so much by him impugned a raking in Ditches and laboureth in this sort to rid his handes of him saying First this Prelate was but as a moderator to propound matters c. Secondly that he was Prelate of the people not of the Ministers which is contrarie to his first exception except he will say the people had then the gouernment of the Churche amongest whom he should be moderator Which being obserued as I thinke by Beza he alledgeth this place of Iustinus to prooue Timothy in Ephesino Presbyterio fuisse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id est Antistes vt vocat Iustinus to haue been Prelate in his pretended Eldershippe at Ephesus Cartwright hath also a thirde aunswere in his second Booke bee it graunted that Iustinus president had superioritye ouer the Ministers yet how fondlye is it concluded that it is lawfull because it was But his maine Barricado for defence is this in the daies that Iustine liued there began to peepe out in the Ministerye some thinges which went from the simplicitye of the Gospell as that the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which was common to the Elders with the Ministers of the word was as it seemeth appropriated vnto one For the proofe of the antiquitie of Bishops Ieromes testimonie is brought that at Alexandria from Saincte Marke the Euangelist there was a Bishop placed in a higher degree aboue Priestes as it were a Captaine ouer an Army About which wordes they busie themselues wonderfully First saie they thinges being ordered then by the suffrages of the Ministers and Elders it might as it falleth out oftentimes bee done without the approbation of Sainct Marke How it falleth out amongest them it is no great matter That they should euer agree were more to bee maruailed But to laie such an imputation vppon that church Sainct Marke himselfe being present I thinke it a lewd part and too full of presumption Besides Saincte Marke might haue appealed by their conceites vnto some Classis if hee had disliked that ordinaunce But if this shifte will not serue then they haue another that the wordes from Sainct Marke may be rather taken exclusiuely to shutte out Sainct Marke and the time wherein he liued then inclusiuely to shut him in the time wherein this distinctiō rose Wherein he sheweth his ignorance for Ierome calleth Saint Marke the Bishop of Alexandria In the ende he vseth this fond quirke It is to bee obserued that Sain ct Ierome saith it was so in Alexandria signifying thereby that in other Churches it was not so and we are rather to follow Ierusalem that kept Christes institution then Alexandria that departed from it
Haue you seene a Biâ—de in a lime-bushe But yet he plungeth and when all comes to all if these shiftes shall be thought insufficient this is the last both for this point and certain other of the profite which the Church receaueth by Bishops c corruption groweth in time as the times are so are men that liue in them there is not such sinceritye to bee looked for at Ieromes handes in his times as from others that went before him besides his other faultes he might in this matter haue spoken more soundly And Beza shameth not to giue him the lie in effect and to deride him For where Sainct Ierome saith that when some would needes holde of Paul some of Apollo and some of Cephas it was ordained for the auoidinge of Schisme totius orbis decreto by a decree of the whole worlde that one shoulde bee chosen by the Priestes to bee aboue the rest That is not so saith Beza And in another place quod tandem istud decretum quando a quibus factum what decree was this when and by whom was it made It is most apparaunt and cannot bee denied but that Ireneus Cyprian Tertullian Ambrose Ierome Augustine and diuerse other auncient writers doe call Bishops the Apostles successors In so much as some of them especially the authors of the Ecclesiasticall Histories doe drawe long Catalogues of the particular Bishops names that succeeded the Apostles and other Apostolical men whom they made Bishops Which Catalogues and manner of speach of the said fathers being vsed by them verie fitly against such Heretickes as did rise vp in their daies haue since in our time beene greatly abused by the Papistes Vnto whome the learned men that haue stoode for the trueth against them by writing haue continually aunswered That the fathers arguments drawen from the said personall succession by Bishops were verie effectuall so long as the succession of the Apostles doctrine did concurre therewithall and that the fathers in vrging of the first had euer an especial eie to the second some point of Doctrine being euer called in question by the saide Heretiques And this answere as it is in it selfe most true so it hath ben hitherto generally receiued Yet now another must be sought For whereas in our daies the verie calling it selfe of Bishops is so brought into question that men are enforced to seek their original amongst many reasons for the iustifying of it do bring the said fathers to testifie in this cause that the Apostles themselues appointed BB. that they were generallie accounted in their times to be the apostles successors Now Cartwright with his crue commeth forth amongst vs telleth vs that in all such places where the Fathers and Ecclesiasticall writers doe saie that the Bishops succeede the Apostles we must vnderstand them that by Bishops they mean euery Pastor in his own parishe whom he affirmeth to be onlie the Apostles BB. and that where they call them the successors of the Apostles that is to bee vnderstood because they propound the same doctrine that they did In this sence saith he in another place I grant it true that all Bishops that is Pastors succeed the Apostles So as then the said personall succession is here quite excluded And besides for his other successioÌ„ of doctrine Sadeil being verie desirous to make the said places of the fathers to seem as though they were greatly to be insisted vpon sticketh not much to grant to euery laie man that feareth God as great a priuiledge as Cartwright doth to his Pastors callinge them likewise the Apostles Successors quatenus Apostolorum doctrinam retinent et Apostilicis vestigiis insistunt as farre as they holde the Apostles doctrine and doe walke in their pathes And thus wee must expounde the Fathers euen as the Father of all such Expositions did that of the Psalme Angelis suis mandauit de te or else they will tell vs that they were but men that they speake as the times required wherein they liued that they writ vntruely and manye things to like purpose As if wee were to account no otherwise of them but as of time-seruers men-pleasers deceauers and ambitious persons Though Ierome being an earnest man for the abating of the Deacons pride at Rome in preferring of theÌ„selues before the order of Priestes whereof hee himselfe was one doth speake as much as he could deuise to suppres their insolencies and to aduance his own orders as that Priests were once called Bishops c. yet he was content in other places and vppon other occasions to confesse that Bishops are in respect of Priests as Aaron was in respect of his sonnes that Esay did foretel that Bishops should be chiefe gouernours of the church that the Priest was contayned in the name of Bishop 1. Tim. 3. as the lesse in the greater that Bishops did holde the places of the Apostles and euen in the verie heate of his said disputations against Deacons hee willingly and expresselye graunteth to Bishops one great prerogatiue vz. the ordination of Priestes which did not belong to his order Now it is not vnknowen what aduantage is taken against all Ieromes words which may be with any shew of trueth vrged against Bishops And it will not be admitted of in this case which in some other the best of them are enforced to admit vz. that such his wordes were vttered in heate of disputation and not dogmaticè But whatsoeuer hee hath written in anye place either in his commentaries vpon the scripture or in his letters when he had laid aside the person of a partie that had interest and stoode not vppon euerie thing that might giue anie aduantage as the maÌ„ner is in disputation all I saie whatsoeuer it must yeald and stoope to that which maie in any sorte impaire the credit of Bishops or else woe be to poore Ierome hee writeth contraries and I wot not what And there is one that hath sent vs worde in his booke from Rochell that he knoweth a knacke how Ierome may be expounded that hee shall not leaue to the Bishops so much as ordination Where we reade in Ierome Quid facit excepta ordinatione Episcopus quod non facit Presbyter What doth a Bishop excepting ordinatioÌ„ that a priest doth not Now saith this fellow vide candide Lector num legendum sit accepta ordinatione vt sensus sit ille qui ordinatus est a compresbyteris Episcopus nihil facit quod presbyter non facit Obserue gentle reader whether wee may not reade hauing receiued ordination that the sense may be He that is ordayned of his fellow-Elders a Bishop doth nothing that a priest maye not doe Which is too too childish To prooue the antiquitie and lawfulnes of the name of an Archbishop there being alledged the authorities of Clement Anacletus Anicetus Epiphanius Ambrose Sozomenus and thereuppon a conclusion inferred with a saying of Augustines that seing the name
is so auncient and that the originall thereof is not founde it should seeme to haue come from the Apostles They tearme the bringing-in of these authorities the mouing summoning of Hell they saye those tymes were not pure and virgine-like but departed from the Apostolicall simplicitie and doe treade them all vnder theyr feete with as great facilitie as may be Clement Anacletus and Anicetus are discharged for rogues and men branded in the foreheads Epiphanius wrote according to the time he liued in about 380. and though the name of Archbishop was in his time amongst Grecians yet it followeth not thereby that it was in vse amongst the Latines For Ambrose when Cartwright writte his first Booke and that they were not so throughlie angred as now they are hee onely gaue him this brande Ambrose holdeth other thinges corruptlye and then hee expoundeth him that of likelyhoode the Archbishop hee speaketh of was no other then he which for the time ruled the action when Bishops were ordayned and after the action ended hadde no more authoritie then the rest But since his choller increasing first hee beganne as he sayth in his second booke to suspect the place alledged out of his booke de dignitate Sacerdotum to be corrupted whereuppon within a short time after he grew to bee so hardened against him by finding some other things also in the saide booke which hee misliked that he hath bored him in the eare for a Roge likewise and sent him a rouing amongst his fellowes making the author of that booke a false Ambrose which is an vnlearned shift Sozomenus and Volusianus they writt not according to that which was but according to the custome and manner of the age wherein they wrotte As though he should saye they lied And as touching Augustine his sentence is approued say they vnaduisedly and that thereby a windowe is open to bring in all poperie Which is a lewde reproch For the antiquitie of the name of Archdeacon are alledged by D.W. the testimonies of Damasus Ierome Sixtus Sozemene Socrates To whose authorities their answere is two of them are counterfeits Damasus spake in the Dragons voice Amongst men the best ground beareth thistles those times were corrupt And yet Sixtus liued Bishop of Rome about the yeare 265. and was a godly martyr A number of authorities being cited which affirme that Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus as Eusebius Dorotheus Nicephorus Ierome Isidorus Dionysius Areopagita Epiphanius Ambrose Chrisostome Oecumenius Theodoret c. Their aunswere is They esteeme him a Bishop indeed and not an Euangelist But what then if they were for one a hundred they cannot counteruayle much lesse beare downe the testimony of the Apostle As though they euer purposed anye such matter But it goeth hard when for a matter of historie all these worthie Fathers can find no better credit If Timothy were Bishop of Ephesus I trust he will not say that the Apostle is ouerborne And that he was Bishop all these affirme it who liuing neerer to the Apostles times shold know aswell as Cartwright what was in fact then and being both as religious and as learned as he wold pretend to be could as easily haue espied what repugnāces there was betwixt that practise and the Apostles writings and would as earnestly haue reprooued it if there had beene any as hee Sainct Ciprian and Sainct Ierome are of opinion nay S. Ierome saith it was the opinion and the iudgement of the whole catholicke Church for so I interprete his words the whole worlde that for the auoyding of schismes and heresies it was necessarie that there should be one Bishop in euery Diocese as our learned writers haue thought of those places writing against the Papists to gouerne and ouer-rule the rest of the Priestes within their charge least otherwise as by experience it was found amongst the Corinthians there would be in short time as many schismes altars as there were priests and heades and that euery one might not carry his schollers after him and so following their own fancies teare in pieces the Church of Christ. With them in like manner all the godly generall Councels since that time haue agreed finding daily new mischiefs to arise which were not before hatched haue for the meeting with them increased accordinglye the authoritie of Bishops and so kept the church in good order at the least for aboue fiue hundred yeares Since which time although the Pope with extreme iniurie to all other Bishops hath lifted himselfe by a false title aboue not only thē but aboue al kings Emperors in like manner neuer ceasing till he hath set himselfe in the seate of the beast yet with many other points of Christianitie this also hath beene preserued that the gouernment of the church by Bishops in euery Kingdome prouince and Dioces is Apostolical and not only in that respect to be for euer continued but necessary also in regarde of the causes before mentioned But now all this is reckoned nothing There are some two or three that do take vpon them to prooue forsooth that all the said Fathers of the primatiue Church all Councells and all whosoeuer that haue liked that ordinaunce haue been deceaued in their iudgements in that they haue accounted the institution of Bishops their gouernment to be a means for the auoiding of schismes or for the maintenaunce of the peace of the Church But how they prooue it I will not stand now vppon that poynt It is forsooth in a worde by discourse of reason whereof Cartwright braggeth and for that as they saie there were great controuersies in the church notwithstanding their institution c. And now it is their Eldership must weare the Crowne and reforme all that is amisse Well what wee are to thinke of their Elderships we partly haue seene and yet shall heare more before I haue done In the meane time it is euident how they oppose their owne iudgement to all the world since Christs time Cyrillus for calling the Bishop 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 high priest as Ignatius hadde done in effect before the prince or chiefe of priests and Tertullian also Episcopus est summus Sacerdos the Bishop is the high priest is wonderfully censured Hee that bringeth in a priest into the church saith Cartwright goeth about to burye our Sauiour Christ. And as for him that bringeth in an high priest into the church hee goeth about to put our Sauiour Christ out of his office This that he affirmeth here toucheth not only Cyrill but the most I am sure of all the auncient Fathers who were as carefull for the office and prerogatiue of Christ and haue written as manye notable woorkes against such Hereticks as haue impugned his Soueraigntie in any respect as euer he or his Sectaries haue written or I thinke will doe But his breath maye well blast himselfe they I doubt not are in heauen and
it cannot touch them Wee vppon earth are to honor theyr memories and for all proude and wicked censure are to learne from them that such names not being giuen to anie minister in respect of anye office peculiarlie belonging to Christ may lawfullie bee retayned in the Church of God Whereas to approoue the lawfull vse of some holydaies allowed and appointed to bee kept in the Church of Englande amongst diuerse reasons this is one the continuance of them in the times of Ignatius Tertullian Ciprian Ierome Augustine and sondrie others together with theyr good lyking and approbation of them They complaine that trueth is measured by the crooked yarde of time and therefore doe appeale from these Examples vnto the Scriptures and to the Apostles times As though the saide auncient Fathers the churches in their times had not knowen the scriptures aswell as he or his Sectaries and that notwithstanding the fourth commaundement it was lawfull for the church to appoint obserue such daies which vpon that only ground contrarie to the practise of the whole church since the Apostles times he vtterly denieth to be lawful induced therunto no doubt because Geneua hath abolished theÌ„ vz. Christmas-day Easter-day Ascention-day Whitsontide with all the rest A fact that in the time of the ancient fathers would surely haue beene accounted a tricke of Paganisme Iustinus Irenaeus Tertullian Ciprian Ambrose Ierome Basile Augustine Socrates Sozimene the Counsell of Auricanum of Neocaesaria of Nice of Gangrene of Orleaunce being cited to prooue the churches authoritie in things of indifferencie and for the obseruation of many thinges accordingly not mentioned in the scriptures Cartwright first complaineth that he is so pestred with such kinde of authorities in steed of Esay Ieremy S. Paule S. Peter and then he shaketh theÌ„ off altogether because the things which they affirm are now called into questioÌ„ vz. by him his fellows So as wheÌ„ it pleaseth theÌ„ to call any thing into questioÌ„ that all the fathers held away they must there is no remedie Cirill affirming that the lawe of Moses for punishing adulterie by death is not now in force Cartwright answereth as for Cirill I can at no hande allow his opinion his sentence is corrupt Chrisostome Oecumenius doe vnderstand the place of Timothy for the imposition of handes there mentioned of Bishops not of Priests Cartwright therunto saith I aunswere at once that it seemeth violent Eusebiâ—s giuing Iosephus this great commendation that hee was Historicorum qui sunt apud Iudeos facilè Princeps the principall man amongst the Iewes for a writer of histories Maister Beza disgraceth him in this sort in his oration when he was first chosen to be Rector of the Schoole at Geneua Iosephum c. I doe reckon Iosephus not onelye amongst the prophane but also in the number of ridiculous and foolish writters And whereas Origene Chrisostome the Creeke scholiast Theodoret Theophilact Ambrose and Ierome doe expounde Rom. 12.8 He that distributeth let him doe it with simplicitie not of Deacons that giue other mens almes but of all christians generally such as do giue almes théselues Cartwright disliking this exposition determineth of them after this sort They often strayne the text to drawe them to the present vse of theyr churches by reason whereof in steed of milke they somtimes draw blood He measureth the Fathers by his own falsehood When they are told that the auncient histories are against theÌ„ concerning a point by them denied about the chosing of BB. in Ciprians time they confesse it that they are so indeed and thus they auoyd them that except it can be shewed out of some ecclesiasticall history of like auncientie with Ciprian it is nothing By which one blowe all the ecclesiasticall histories that are now extant of name since Christs time so far as I do presentlie remember except it be Philo Iudeus are quight cut off as insufficient witnesses of any thing before their own times that is of any thing for the space of 300 yeares at the least after Christ. There were Ecclesiasticall writers before as it may appeare in diuerse places of Eusebius out of whom both he and others after him borrowed much but now they are lost and we haue them not Where it was saide in the behalfe of the auncient Fathers and generall Councelles for the first 500. yeares being charged with corruption and I wotte not with what building working to make a way for Antichrist c that they laboured to keepe out Antichrist c they aunswere the Fathers imagined fondly of Antichrist they dealt like ignoraunt men they were ouer-mastered of their affections they had many errors c. And all this is spoken by a man much more fond ignoraunt affectionate and erroneous as I am perswaded then they were But yet heare the man and his maister a little further It is a daungerous thing to ground our order or pollicy of the Church vppon men Again Although the louuer of this Antichristian building was not then sette vp yet the foundation thereof being secretely laide in the Apostles times you might easily know that in those times the building was wonderfully aduaunced and growen verie high And Beza also The Fathers in the Councell of Nice vnderlaide the seate of the Harlot that sitteth vppon seauen mountaines Againe Maister Cartwright Those times were not pure nor virgin-like the Churches were then much departed from the singlenes wherein the Apostles had left them Lastlie Examples cannot be without great daunger set from those times And thus all but Caluin Beza and himselfe are men there is no good building but their owne nor anie purity to be found but in them their fauourers their deuises and platformes It is alleadged out of Theodoret that Sainct Chrisostom being Bishop of Constantinople had the care not onely of that Church but of the Churches also in Thracia in Asia and in Pontus and out of Sozemenus that he deposed thirteen Bishops for Simonie in selling of benefices Vnto which testimonies they aunswere First that this care was no other then such as euery godly Minister ought to haue ouer all the Churches in Christendome For example as Beza hath of the Churches in Fraunce and so Chrisostom was Bishop onely in the Church of Constantinople and hadde an eie and care to those other Churches Which aunswere proceedeth from grosse ignorance or malice Secondlye that if Chrisostome had charge ouer all those Churches he had as large a dominion as euer the Pope had Wherein also he sheweth his grosse ignorance in taking Asia there for the third part of the world Thirdly that if he hadde any such authority he was guilty of the breach of many Canons and Councels Fourthly that he could saie he was a prowde man Fifthlie that it might be aunswered that Chrisostom deposed the said Bishops not by his authority but by his
counsail Sixtly that it was Pope-like and vnlawfull to put in and put out of his absolute authority and lastly that it is dangerous to builde vppon the examples of those times And thus as a man in a maze he goeth backeward and foreward finding nothing to rest vppon but his own meere vngodly and slaunderous surmises A fit guide he is for giddie heads to follow Whereas for the antiquitye of Archbishops the first generall councell that was after the Apostles times vz. the Councell of Nice is alledged in these words Let the auncient custome be kept throughout Egipt Libia and Pentapolis that the Bishop of Alexandria may haue the gouernment of all these c. First saie they nothing was graunted by those words to the Bishop of Alexandria but onely to sit in the highest place at meetings which is most direct against the tenor of that Canon and is but a sottish shift grounded especiallie vppon this that Beza in his annotations vppon Iohn 1. doth expound this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which the Councell vseth to signifie dignitie or prerogatiue And secondly where it is said let the auncient custome preuaile The Bishops saith Cartwright comparing that decree with others made at that time and not before called that an ancient custome As if Ministers being assembled together to speak of a matter continued a score of Prouinciall Synodes and holden in the space of ten yeares should say in this sorte in suche and such thinges we will keepe our old custome Which they themselues might saie as well if they list concerning their bastardly Discipline that secretlie and seditiouslie eight or nine yeares since they haue agreed vppon after their fashion like dogges and cats in manie of their assemblies But if either he or anie other of the said Ministers should so saie they should certainelie in mine opinion speake verie foolishly and verie ignorauntlie And whether it is likelie that all the auncient Fathers assembled in that Councell would vse such a Sophistication in one of their Canons that iudge you or whether there was euer anie man before Cartwright so presumptuouslie impudent as to expound their words in this sort that I leaue to himselfe and his followers to consider of at their leasure But the Councell must speake according to his pleasure or otherwise marke how he commeth ouer it First he gibeth at these titles which are giuen vnto it to bee a notable and famous Councell secondlie he taketh vppon him to proue that the said Canon was not a good decree because as he saith some other decrees then made are not sound thirdly allowing the decision that was giuen by that Councell of the difference touching the perfect vnity of substance in Trinity For the rest he saith thus the most of the errors agreed vpon in that Councell were in the Discipline The most Belike there were some then in the Doctrine Those which he hath named for such great errors were not agreed vpon as matters of doctrine to my vnderstanding but were orders thoght meet in those daies for the pollicie of the Church I omit what reckning hath bin euer made of this Councell by al other Councels and fathers since that time Caluin is content to embrace the first foure generall Councels quantúm attinet ad fidei doctrinam so farre as they haue dealt with the doctrine of faith thogh Cartwright in the height of his pride do challenge the doctrine But euery man now will allow and disalow what he list The Arrians wil say as much of the doctrine as either Caluin or Cartwright do say of the discipline And so euerie Schismatick or Heretick look what serues their turne that is holie what they dislike that is erroneus About the choosing of Ministers much hath bin pretended for the peoples interest Against which conceit for the necessity of it amgst manie reasons prop oūded the Councell of Laodicea hath beene alledged where it was decreed about the yeare 338. that it ought not to bee permitted vnto the multitude to make election of them which should be preferred to the ministerie M. Caluin doth greatly allow of this canon which sheweth his liking of the peoples restraint and he affirmeth a sense vnto it as though that Coūcell had purposed to haue squared out the same platform for the erecting of Ministers that he hath deuised and established in Geneua Read the lawes of Geneua about the making of Ministers and you shall finde them whollie to agree with his words in this place Now if we can be content to receaue this exposition which Cartwright maketh being the verie marrow of Maister Caluins vz. the Canon meant not to haue the people secluded from the election but tendeth only to the directing of thē by the foreiudgement of the Elders he will bee content to let it passe without more adoe Otherwise notwithstanding Caluins commendation of it he can tell vs but vntrulie without anie warrant that this Canon is suspected whether it be a Bastard or no and that manie Councels are against it Maister Caluin confesseth that before the Councel of Nice there were first BB placed in their dioces aboue the Ministers then Archbishops ouer Bishops and lastlie in the saide Nicene Councell that there were Patriarchs appointed ouer Archbishops Now whereas the Councell of Antioch about some 15. yeares after saith It behoueth the Bishops in euery countrey to know their Metropolitane Bishop to haue care ouer the whole prouince propter quod for which cause all such as haue any busines must come to their Metropolitan city wherefore it pleaseth this Councell that he also excell in honor and that the other Bishops do nothing without him according to the ancient rule prescribed by our forefathers but those things only which pertaine to his own Dioces Cartwright deliuereth vs these gloses vpon it A Metropolitan Bishop saith he was nothing else but a Bishop of that place which was the chiefe citty of the Dioces or shire and as for the name it maketh no more difference betwixt Bishop and Bishop then when I say a Minister of London and a Minister of Newington Secondly there is no mentiō here that BB. are subiect to the Metropolitan Thirdly for the honor they should giue him I haue shewed it out of the Councel of Nice Fourthly the care for other Churches is but such as euery good Minister should haue of al churches Fiftlie the word Dioces should be parish For the Councell did not mean that the Bishops mentioned had Diocesses but euery one of them one town only hauing belonging vnto it certaine villages which did resort vnto his church as in Hitchin and diuers other places with vs. He should haue said Geneua but all this hee affirmeth most absurdly Besides this is his ordinary practise that because the word vsed amongest the Greeke writers ordinarily for a dioces doth likewise also signifie a parish he euer to falsifie such authors as are brought
against him doth traÌ„slate for dioces parish as in this place he doth it with a most brasen forehead The councell of Nice of Antioch of Carthage and of Sardis directly prouing that Bishops only had authority to excommunicate Cartwright giueth no other answere vnto them but this that Maister Caluin saith how Bishops in excommunicating after that manner dealt therein ambitiously Athanasius saith that Dionysius Bishop of Alexandria had the Churches of Pentapolis committed to his care Cartwright saith that care importeth not iurisdiction and so as to the Councell of Nice and of Antioch Cyprian saith the cause of heresies and schismes is this that Priests wil not obey their BB. Cartwright that answereth that is iu effect if his vnpreaching Aldermen will not obay their Pastors Epiphanius speaking of one Peter a Bishop of Alexandria saith this is the custome that the Bishop of Alexandria should haue the Ecclesiastiasticall gouernment of all Egipt Thebais Mariota Libia Ammonica Mariotes Pentapolis Whereupon Cartwright gloseth thus that is besides his own church he procured the good of other churches rouÌ„d about him Again Epiphanius of one Miletus an Archbishop that he was subiect or vnder the said Peter Archbishop of Alexandria Cartwright saith that euery Bishop of name was called an Archbishop And where it is said Miletus was vnder Peter that is vnder him in honour and not subiect vnto him saith Cartwright contrary to the manifest words and meaning of the author Theodoret Bishop of Cyprus saith of himself that he had the gouernment ouer 800. Churches Cartwright saith in effect that he lied that his words coÌ„cerning his care in gouerning those churches being spoken of himselfe want not suspition and that hee was condemned for writing against Cirill neuer mentioning how hee was wrongfully condemned in his absence and afterward restored I omit a number of their other shifts and presumptuous dealings with the fathers As of Epiphanius For him it is knowen of what authority he is c. it were better to laie his words against Aerius vpon some counterfaite and false Epiphanius to spare his credit Likewise of Ambrose Many errors corrupt expositions are found in his works in his exposition vpon the place to the Philippians a child may see how violently he forceth the Text. And also their reiecting of Councels by heaps c. wher they haue no coulor how they may peruert them But yet I may not let this escape my fingars that Cartwright whether for his owne glory or else that God would haue him to be the instrument of his owne shame is well content rather then he will want testimonies to encounter with the authority of Bishops to sort both himselfe all his followers in the number of those that euer since the Apostles times haue repined at that authority thereupon haue beene ouerruled by all the auncient Fâ—thers and Councels as busie bodies Schismaticks You shall heare his wordes and then iudge whether I haue mistaken them To what ende both in the Nicene councell and in many other holden more then two hundred yeares after are there found so manie canons for the acknowledging of the authority of one Metropolitane in euery Province for the honor which he should haue the name he should be called by for the place where hee should sit at their meetings for the bounds of their circuit Doe not all these declare that there were some which were ennemies to that authoritye c. To this I might adde his defence to Aerius and his confutation of Epiphanius not without some discredit to Sainct Augustine Lastlie whatsoeuer is saide or may be said hereafter out of all the auncient Fathers and Histories and out of all the generall Councels concerning the saide gouernment of the Church by Bishops Archbishops and Patriarches of their institution authority title circuites and prerogatiues Cartwright doth take vpon him most boldlie most falsly to prescribe vnto vs certain rules how we must vnderstaÌ„d them or otherwise there is not one of them that will be allowed of I blush in his behalfe I assure you to sette it downe and am ashamed that anie man bearing the name of a Christian shoulde deale so like an Impostor But this it is That it maye appeare saith he what the Fathers and Councelles doe mean when they giue more to the Bishop of anye one churche then to the Elder of the same church and that no man bee deceaued by the name of Gouernour or ruler ouer the rest to fancy any such authority and domination or Lordship as wee see vsed in our church it is to bee vnderstoode that amongest the Pastors Elders and Deacons of euery particular church and in the meetings and companies of the Ministers or Elders of diuerse churches there was one chosen by the voyces suffrages of them al or the most part which did propound the matters that were to be handled whether they were difficulties to be soluted or punishments censures to be decreed vppon those that had faulted or whether there were elections to be made or what other matter so euer occasion was giuen to intreate off the which also gathered the voyces reasons of those which had interest to speake in such causes which also did pronounce according to the number of the voyces which were giuen which was also the mouth of the rest to admonish or to comfort or to rebuke sharply such as were to receaue admonishment consolation or rebuke which in a worde did moderate that whole action which was done for that time they were assembled c. And must we thus vnderstande the Fathers generall Councels Hee might as truely saie that the present forme of our ecclesiasticall gouernment in England vnder her maiestie by Archbishops and Bishops is euen the very same maÌ„ner of church-gouernment that he his followers looke for the right platform of those Elderships which haue so mightely bewitched them Men that once haue passed the limits of modestie may afterwards saie write what they list The ancient Fathers haue deserued farre otherwise of the Church of Christ then that for the maintenaunce of such a forgery as the pretended form of discipline is they shold be vsed after any such manner I would wish all men that are of this proud presumptuous humor to peruse the books which S Augustine hath written against Iulianus the Pelagian There they shall find the very same contemptuous spirit in Iulianus that raigneth in theÌ„selues exalteth it selfe so greatly against the godly learned fathers as also on the other side they shall there see the fruites of Gods spirit vz. in what reuerend account verie high estimation S. Augustine had such worthy holy men by name as here you haue heard very contumeliously disgraced childishly neglected disdaynfully contemned and most proudlie reiected Ita intellexit Ambrosius ita Cyprianus ita Gregorius c. So Ambrose vnderstood such a place of the
scriptures So Cyprian so Gregory c. did carry some weight in S. Augustines opinion Those things which diuerse notable men haue alledged out of the auncient Fathers for the iustification of the present ecclesiasticall gouernment in the church of England ought not so lightly to bee regarded with euery princox What the Fathers haue written that agreeth not with our Phantasticall giddye headed fellowes pleasures they write it not of parciality either to grieue them or to gratifie vs but as trueth led theÌ„ Quod inuenerunt in ecclesia teneruÌ„t quod didiceruÌ„t docueruÌ„t quod a patribus acceperunt hoc filiis tradideruÌ„t that which they found in the church saith Augustine they held that which they had learned they taught that which they had receaued of theyr fathers they deliuered to theyr children Though Cartwright his companie do carrie so base a conceit of those times wherein the auncient fathers liued yet the Fathers themselues did not so thinke of theÌ„ Iulianus the heriticke did speake as it seemeth insuch a scornfull sorte of theÌ„ as our Sectaries do But S. Augustine laieth it to his reproch as an apparant argument of his great folly presumptioÌ„ thinking it a most absurd point for him so to vse them Vsque adeò permiscuit imis summa longus dies c. hath time so confounded all things saith Augustine is darknes growen to bee such light and is light it selfe turned into such darknes vt videant Pelagius Celestinus Iulianus et caeci sunt Hilarius Cpyrianus Ambrosius that Pelagius Celestinâ—s and Iulianus can see and Hilary Cyprian and Ambrose are become blind And surely I do not perceaue why I may not without offence applie the same wordes to those men in these daies which treade in the saide fellowes steppes concerning this their contempt pride Were there neuer learned men before you were taught the principles of the Geneua discipline was wisdom dead till you were borne Doe you know what was in the Apostles times better then they did who succeeded the Apostles were the auncient Fathers able to defende the greatest misteries of our saluation against so many pestilent heretiques and were they ignorant in the matters of the externall gouernment of the church Knew they the distinction of the three persons in the blessed Trinitie could they not find what difference Christ allowed off to be continued in his Church betwixt a Bishop and a priest Is the darknes which pride carieth with it groweÌ„ to be so light and is the light that shewed it selfe so many waies in the ancient fathers as in their singular learning great humilitie become such darknes that Cartwright Trauerse Fenner and such like but the shadows of learned men in respect should be thought so clearly sighted shall Ireneus Tertullian Cyprian Ambrose Hierome Chrysostome Augustine Gregory Hilarye and all the rest of those worthie men be reckoned blind Surely he is a bussard that thinketh so And therefore I will coÌ„clude this chapter with another saying of S. Augustines against such busie innouators as you are oportet vt populi christiani vestris prophanis nouitatibus anteponant c. It is meet that all christian people should preferre the auncient fathers before your nouelties eisque potius adherere quà m vobis rather sticke fast to their iudgements then to runne after your phansies CHAP. XXVIII Theyr dealing with all the new writers and many reformed churches when they make against them THis is a grounde layde downe by Cartwright that few men that are of any stayde or sounder iudgement in the scriptures and haue seene or read of the gouernment and order of other churches are against them in such matters as they haue broched vnto vs. And agreablie to this ground his answeres are framed when any thing is vrged against him out of anie of the new writers except Caluin and BeZa If either of them do happen to crosse him it is strange to see how he doubleth shifteth As for any other they are but a puffe with him hee careth not greatly howe hee handleth them Pellicane Bucer Bullinger Illyricus and Musculus affirming with all the auncient Fathers that Timothye was Bishop of Ephesus what then sayth Cartwright If they were for one a hundred they could not beare downe the Apostle As though they hadde euer ment it Luther expoundinge a place of Zacharie contrarie to his liking his exposition sayth Cartwright is out of season Musculus affirmeth that the places 20. of Sainct Mathew 10. of sainct Marke and 22. of sainct Luke vos autem non sic doe not condemne Superioritie but an ambitious desire and tyrannicall vsage of it but Caluin as learned as hee sayth Cartwright is of my iudgement Bucer holdeth that the sayde 20. of Mathew doth propound a generall rule to all magistrats and christians Where Cartwrights extenuating the authoritie of man braueth out Bucer with this that his iudgment hath counterpoise of other as learned Whereas Peter Martyr Bullinger and Gualter do bring diuerse reasons for the lawfull vse of the surplise and such other apparrell as is appointed with vs for Ministers Cartwright is so farre from being moued with their authoritie as that he aduentureth to confute their said reasons after his manner very sophistically affirming in effect but falsely that either they vnderstoode not auncient fathers alleadged by them for that purpose or that they peruerted their meaning Bishop Ridly and Maister Bucer approouing that where there are no preachers there should bee godly learned homilies read in those Churches Cartwright thus dismisseth Bishop Ridley being a partie in this cause hee ought to be no witnesse And for Maister Bucers wordes he saith they are not to be weighed insinuating that his booke concerning his iudgement in king Edwardes daies vppon the communion booke is counterfeited Againe of maister Bucer for his allowing of priuate baptisme and of the signe of the Crosse likewise of the ring in marriage and that the parties married should receiue the communion he saith Bucer hath other grosse absurdities to this authoritie I could oppose other men of as great authoritie sometimes Homer sleepeth his reasons are verie ridiculous verie slender and colde and sauour not of the learning and sharpnesse of the iudgement of maister Bucer Maister Fox in like sorte setting downe his full approbation of the present state ecclesiasticall that Archbishops should be in degree aboue Bishops and Bishops in degree aboue other Ministers and relying for this his iudgement partly vpon the scriptures and partly vppon the primatiue Church and concluding that this is to keepe an order duely and truely in the Church according to the true nature and definition of order by the authoritie of Augustine he is I say thus censured Maister Fox writing a storie doth take greater paine and looketh more diligently to declare what is done and in what time and by whome then howe iustly or vniustly how
at another time and when they haue forgotten themselues they will of purpose I feare it to abuse the worlde stand very much vppon the auncient fathers and bragge of their authoritie exceedingly As Cartwright doth in these words most vntruly We propound nothing saith he that the scriptures doe not teach the writers both olde and newe for the most part affirme and the examples of the primitiue Churches confirme Did euer any manne regard Cartwrightes credite who considering what hath beene noted out of his bookes in this whole processe doeth not pittie him with all his harte to heare him so farre to forget himselfe Hee is a manne of good learning which maketh mee to woonder at him It is surely great pittie that euer hee was so maried vnto his Eldershippe For it hath vtterly ouerthrowne all the good partes that bee in him The best lawyer that is when hee giueth himselfe to shiftes and to feed his clyentes with quirkes refusing not to brabble in anye cause be it neuer so false he looseth his estimation and with the grauer sort is little regarded Howe truely Maister Cartwright affirmeth that he and his fellows do propound nothing but that the old writers for the most parte doe affirme and the examples of the primitiue church confirme I trust it hath in part already appeared vnto you in sundry places but especially in the 5. as I saide and in the 27. Chapters I haue heard some Councellers at lawe vse the verye like course of speach when notwithstanding the cause hath falne out most directly against them yet they haue cried out Oh my Lord wee haue these and these olde euidences to shewe such and such depositions doe make for vs verye manifestly wee haue yet many witnesses to bee examined and thus they will proceed with many cracking wordes as though there had beene nothing which had made against them Is Cartwright able trowe you to finde his Parish Bishops and his counterfeit Lay-Elders which two pointes are in effecte all in all with him in the auncient fathers and primitiue Church Hee maye say as truely that the Sonne shines at midnight But yet hee sayth that Ignatius and Cyprians Bishops were but as our pastors or parsons arein euery parish For his vnministering Elders hee alledgeth the same Ignatius and Cyprian and for a surcharge hee bringeth in also Tertullian Hierome Possidonius and Socrates where they make mention of priests I was once purposed to haue set downe the places themselues which they so violently peruerte to bolster out such theyr apparaunt falshood and to haue aunswered them But then I remembred howe effectually that had beene done allready by diuers learned and woorthie menne and of late more fully and largely by two especiall persons whose books one of them is in printing and the other presently comming to the presse and therevpon I altered my mind in that point And yet something thereof agreeably to the course which hetherto I haue obserued that may peraduenture amaze some of them Vppon some occasion falling out maister Cartwright affirmeth that if the now Lord Arch-bishop of Canterbury had read the ecclesiasticall stories hee shoulde haue founde easiely the Eldership most florishing in Constantines time vz. in hauing then such Bishops and Elders as hee fancieth to himselfe For he must bee so vnderstood To whome replie being made that he should bring but one ecclesiasticall historie that affirmed so much after some three or fower yeares hee brought two vz. the historie of Magdeburge and Eusebius His testimony out of the first he setteth down in these words The centuries must needes haue told him that the same orders and functions of the church were in that time which were before And what would he inferre hereof Surely if hemeane honestly and doe not dally with the word before refering it further then the Centuries meant it which was but to the age that succeeded the Apostles he could not haue directed a man to any history now extant that doth more directly confound his assertion For there the authors of that history doe most plainely affirme that by and by after the Apostles death necessitas coegit personarum gradus aliquos constituere et conseruare necessity compelled the fathers then liuing to ordaine certaine degrees of persons in the church and to conserue them This is most directly against Cartwrights assertion although for mine own part to note it by the way I thinke the Apostles knowing the necessitie mentioned had taken that order before But to follow the said historie There were three degrees then ordained say the said authors vz. Episcopatus presbyterium Diaconatus the degree of Bishops of priesthood and of Deaconship For the proofe whereof they cite Ignatius Eusebius Theodoret c. and the very place of S. Ierome where he sheweth how for auoiding of schisme one was chosen amongst the ministers to haue preheminence ouer the rest and to whome the name of Bishop was peculiarly then attributed And as concerning the priests or Elders they doe shew it out of Eusebius Nicephorus Irenaeus Iustine c. that their office was to preach the Gospell and to administer the sacraments c. The Centuries thus we see will not serue M. Cartwrights turne to the iustifying of the florishing estate of his Eldership in Constantines daies I wil therfore come vnto his sec̄od authority which he bringeth out of Eusebius It is manifest saith he that the churches were gouerned vnder Constantine by Bishops Elders and Deacons by that which is recited of an infinit number of Elders and Deacons which came to the Councel of Nice with the 250. Bishops It is manifest indeede And it is also as manifeste that there were at that time both Archbishops and Patriarches But there were at that Councel both Bishops Elders and Deacons And what then I know that many men haue wrested many places directly contrarie to the authors meaninge but I doe not remember anie one place within the compasse of my small readinge that is more grosly peruerted then this place is For M. Cartwright running still his old biace would haue men to thinke that by Bishops Eusebius meant so many parishe-ministers and by priests or Elders his said counterfaite Aldermen And his authoritie is so greate amongest his sectaries who professe their Gleaninge after him that what-so-euer he bringeth they take it vpon his credit and so runne on with a conceite that not onely all other authorities brought by him out of the auntient Fathers mentioned are truely by him expounded and applyed but that also euen this place of Eusebius is to bee vnderstood as here he woulde haue it Wherein surely they are much to blame to depend so much vpon any mans credit If they them-selues had euer read either the Fathers or the ecclesiasticall histories they coulde neuer possibly haue beene miscarried so palpably A frinde of mine hauinge some talke not many yeares since with Maister Cartwright about this place of Eusebius
alledged and expounded by him as you haue heard vrged him verie earnestly that he woulde indeede tell him truely whether hee beeinge a man of learninge and so coulde not bee ignorant of Eusebius meaninge did not sinne euen against his owne conscience when he cited that place to such an ende and purpose as hee had done His aunswere was that hee did not and that hee was still of the same minde therein that hee was before Why Sir replyed my friende As Eusebius sayeth that there were an infinit number of Elders and Deacons which came to the Councell of Nice with the 250 Bishops So it is reported by Socrates that in the sayde Councell it had beene decreed by the Bishops c. but for Paphnutius that Bishops Elders Deacons shoulde haue companied no more with their wiues Quas cum erant laiui in matrimonium duxissent which they had married when they were lay-menne And now must wee expound Socrates in this place as you doe expounde Eusebius doth Socrates meane by priestes there your manner of lay Elders was the Councell bent to haue debarred such men from their wiues Speake your conscience truely I pray you Maister Cartwright aunswered againe that hee verily thought in his conscience that by priestes there Socrates vnderstood the saide Elders and that the Councell meant to haue seperated them from their wiues And this reason was because within a while after there was some question whether Subdeacons might marrie My sayde friende replied againe that hee was verie sory to heare his aunswere and that he verily thought the like interpretation of Socrates wordes was neuer made before nor would euer be made hee hoped by anie after him And so they parted Afterwardes my sayde friend findinge that when hee told some persons of great place how M. Cartwright did expounde the said words of Socrates they would hardly beleeue him but supposed rather that he had mistaken them did write a letter vnto him desiringe him most earnestly that if he c̄otinued in the same mind he left him he would be content to returne vnto him in writing some further reasons thereof then formerly he made at his being with him Maister Cartvvright hereupon writ backe againe vnto my friend I haue his letter in my custodie excusing himselfe that through want of bookes he could not satisfie his expectation so fully as he would But for the point I speake of thus he writ Touching that it seemeth strange vnto you that the gouerning elders should haue bene in danger to haue bene forbidden mariage in the councell of Neece I thought I had satisfied you in alleaging that not long after there vvas great hold amongst the councels vvhether Deacons yea Subdeacons should be married So as now that which before stood only vpon the credit of the relator is readie to be shewed vnder maister Cartvvrights hand as it hath alreadie bene to diuers of this disciplinarie disposition who as I haue bene informed and partly do know all of them haue vtterly signified their great dislike of that point And yet either he must of necessitie so interpret Socrates or els be driuen to giue ouer Eusebius and so both he and all his Aldermen to take their leaue of the Ecclesiasticall histories and bid them adieu But yet there is another thing in maister Cartvvrights sayd letter which is very fit for you to vnderstand that so you may see how he foileth himselfe One thing sayth hee vnto my sayd friend in your letter I thinke you mistake me in that you esteeme that I should hold a bishop and a minister of the vvord all one in the times of the Nicene councell For notvvithstanding that I hold that in the Apostles time and vvith S. Paule it is all one to be a bishop and to be a minister of the vvord yet it vvere a foule ignorance in me if I should not haue knovvne that long before the councell of Neece the name of bishop vvas for the most part appropriated to one in a church C̄osider I pray you how the man was mistaken If by elders Eusebius should haue meant his counteirfet laie rulers must he not then by his 250 bishops most necessarily haue meant so many parish ministers pastors or parsons except he will say that there was no such ministers there which were as new a paradox as the rest But how agreeth this of the difference he confesseth betwixt a bishop and a minister of the word long before the councell of Neece with some other of his sayings else-where in print such as there are The bishop that Ignatius speaketh of vvas but the minister of a particular congregation Againe Ciprians Bishop vvas nothing els but S. Pauls bishop that is one that had cure and charge of one flocke Again the bishop vvhich S. Ciprian speaketh of is nothing els but such as vve call pastor or as the common name with vs is Parson and his church vvherof he is bishop is neither diocesse nor prouince but a congregation vvhich meet together in one place and bee taught of one man Now ioine these things together and see what a Gallimawfrie ye haue May not a man misdoubt that maister Cartvvright is not yet resolued of his owne opinion Haue not his scholers great cause to reioyce in glaining after so constant an author What can he pretend to salue his credit withall Hee will neuer secke a refuge for shame out of these words vz. For the most part As though he should thus expound S. Ierome where he saith that when some began to hold of Peter some vpon Paule and some vpon Apollo which was as I take it in the Apostles times it was then decreed throughout all the world that for auoyding of schismes one minister who was called a bishop should haue authoritie and iurisdiction ouer all other ministers in his diocesse that is true should Cartvvright say throughout all the world except at Antioch and Carthage two little hamblets where Ignatius and S. Cyprian were but plaine parsons euen like the parsons of Hitchin and Newington Not many yeares since a friend of mine was commanded for a certaine purpose to contriue the cheese matters in controuersie about the pretended discipline into certain questions And it is pertinent to the matter I now speake of to acquaint you with two of them The first because of the pretence which is made as you haue heard of the ancient fathers was this VVhether can it bee shevved out of any ancient father out of any councell either generall or prouinciall or out of any ecclesiasticall historie for the space of 1500 and od yeares euen from the Apostles times till of late that in the ordinarie distribution of church-officers since that time euer vsed into Episcopos Presbyteros diaconos Bishops priests deacons vvhether can it I say be shevved that this vvord Episcopus that is Bishop vvas at any time taken there and vsed by the churches in any countrie for a common and vsuall
the church of Christ. The second question before mentioned being as concerning priests or elders was as it followeth VVhether can it be shevved out of any ancient father out of any councell either generall or prouincial or out of any ecclesiastical historie for the space of 1500 od yeares euen frō the Apostles times till of late that in the sayd ordinarie distribution since that time euer vsed of church-officers into episcopos Presbiteros Diaconos Bishops priests and deacons whether I say can it be shevved that the vvord presbyter priest or elder vvas at any time taken and vsed for certain meere lay men as craftsmen husbandmen citizens gentlemen or noblemen such as should be chosen for a yeare or tvvo to be assistants vnto the ministers of the vvord for the better gouernment of the church as to haue authoritie vvith others to ordaine and impose their hands vpon a minister of the vvord and sacraments to bind and lose sinnes c. vsing in the meane time their seuerall vocations as they did before and ceasing after the said one or tvvo yeres vvithout any offence cōmitted by thē to be any longer presbyteri Or vvas it not euer vvithin the time limited taken vsed only in the said distribution for the ministers of the vvord and sacraments Vnto this questiō one hath made this answer The vvord Presbiteri vvas neuer othervvise takē since the Apostles times in that distribution but for the ministers of the vvord and sacramēts as it is most euidēt to any that shal peruse the ecclesiasticall histories or vvill take any paines to read the vvritings of the ancient fathers But of this point before it be long you shall heare more by one who as he hath done euery thing he dealeth with so hath hee handled this very notably Now in the meane while according to the order which hitherto I haue kept it shall be sufficient for me that the three sayd doctors men well accounted of with maister Cartvvright and his adherents and such as will not bee thought to speake any thing partially may deliuer their opinions as touching this matter For to my vnderstanding they are as direct in this point what the word Presbyteri should signifie in the ancient fathers as they were before in the other of Bishops If in the sayd ancient Fathers the name of Bishop be appropriated to one that had a greater dignitie than was common to all ministers and that by the name of Bishops they neuer vnderstood the pastors of euery parish as doctor Robinson sayth If in the primitiue church and in the Fathers language they were called Bishops that were the cheefe and presidents ouer the rest of the priests or elders euen such as our Sauiour himselfe by the holy Euangelist S. Iohn doth call angels as doctor Reynolds affirmeth If by ancient vse of speech he was onely called a Bishop which in the scriptures is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If the elders that were subiect to these gouernours were of one order and authoritie with them in preaching the word and administration of the sacraments as doctor Fulke hath written against the Iesuits doth it not follow most necessarily that all the Clergie being deduced into three degrees vz. of Bishops priests or elders and deacons that by priests the ancient fathers must needs vnderstand the rest of the ministers of the word and sacraments that were no bishops except any will be so impudent as to say that they were none of the clergie He that will doubt hereof let him doubt for me whether the sunne be vp at noone Besides doctor Raynolds sheweth that Ciprians elders did administer the sacraments And for doctor Fulke after he had once incountred with the papists and amongst many other points was come to this whereof I speake concerning the name of priests as it is a distinct degree vnder bishops though before and peraduenture then also hee had a great fancie to the consistoriall Aldermen yet then that hee was driuen to deale directly and truly consider how he was inforced to alter his disciplinarie stile Those priests or ministers that are made among vs are the same elders that the scriptures in Greeke calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and in the bishops letters of orders they call them by the name presbiteri vvhich tearme though in English you sound it priests elders ancient seniors or ministers it is the same office which is described by the holy ghost Tit. 1. and in other places of scripture Againe VVe refuse not the name priest as it commeth of presbiter c. it is odious to some that knovv not the true Etimologie thereof Againe The name priest as it is deriued of the Greeke vve do not refuse it Again It appeareth by many places of VVicklifs vvorks and namely in his homilie vpon Phil. 1 that hee acknovvledgeth the destinction of bishops and priests for order and gouernment although for doctrine and administration of sacraments they are all one Againe In the fathers Episcopus and Presbiter Bishop and Priest are tvvo distinct degrees And againe In the fathers the vvord Presbiter is one degree only that is subiect to the Bishop Whereas therefore maister Cartvvright with his followers do pretend that they propound nothing which the writers both old and new for the most part do not affirme and the examples of the primitiue churches confirme As that where the ancient fathers and ecclesiasticall histories make mention of bishops and priests they vnderstand by bishops his parish parsons and by priests his counterfeit Aldermen beleeue both him all that glaine after him therein as they deserue and as by the premisses you shall iudge there is cause CAP. XXXI Hovv and vvith vvhat disagreement they vvrest and misconster the scriptures in the behalfe of their pretended discipline ABout the yeare 420 there fell a great contention betwixt the bishops of Affrike and Zosimus the bishop of Rome The point in question was this whether it was lawfull for them of Affrike to appeale from the proceedings of their owne bishops to the bishop of Rome Vpon which occasion partly there was a councel held in Affrike tearmed the sixt councell of Carthage wherein S. Augustine was present The bishop of Rome hearing of this councell and that it was assembled especially about that matter sent thither his factors Faustinus bishop of Potentia with other two priests of Rome Philippus and Asellus In this councell when the sayd question began to be debated the bishop of Romes factors being for their wit and learning three of the especiallest men that Zosimus could find out for such a purpose did deale most expresly against the bishop of Affrike for the prerogatiue and iurisdiction of the see of Rome In all the which contention notwithstanding the sayd factors were such excellēt men vsed the strēgth of al the wit and learning that was in them yet they could not find any one argument in all the
Certainly he might haue emploied his wit to better purposes then he hath done God will one day require an account both of him and of all the rest of that packe that take vpon them so presumpteouslie not onely to peruert the words and meaning of men but of the holie Ghost in like manner By the Angels mentioned in the Apocalips we must not vnderstand the Bishops of those 7. churches that are there named But whom I pray you and what Vnto the Angell of the church of Ephesus that is saith Carolus Gallus vnto the pastor vnto the Angel of the church of Ephesus c. that is saith Iunius vnto the pastors of the church of Ephesus vnto the Angel of the church of Ephesus that is saith Beza 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is vnto the prelate or presidēt of the presbiterie Lastly ynto the Angel c. that is saith I.B. vnto the presbiterie To the presbiterie with a mischief Oh good words yea to the presbiterie How so sane 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Angelus dici potuit Surely the presbiterie may be called corporally an Angell It is goodly newes Of likelyhod he relieth vpon the Apostles words where speaking of the diuinitie of our Sauiour Saint Paul saith that in him dvvelleth all the fulnes of the godhead 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 corporally or bodilie that is the diuinitie of Christ and his humanitie are knit together substantiallie and essentiallie And must we say in like sort set vp the pretended discipline in euerie perish and then the Elderships so placed in them and the Angels in heauen will be out of hand essentiallie tied and incorporated as it were together What a thing is it that Saint Iohn in one word should haue so manie and so misticall meanings Their discipline would blush if she had anie modestie in her to see the word of God for her sake thus vsed The only place in the new testament which they do relie most vpon and from whence they set all their roiall authoritie to excommunicat Princes and to deale with all matters at their pleasures is that of S. Mathevv where it is thus written If thy brother trespasse against thee go tell him of his fault betvvene him and thee alone if he hear thee thou hast vvonne thy brother but if he heare thee not take yet vvith thee one or tvvo c. And if he refuse to heare them tell the Church c. Now as concerning the exposition of these words a man would blesse himselfe to consider how they are incombred You see there is mention made of some thing that is amisse and that is done against some bodie Likewise it is plaine that the thing which is here mentioned is to be done either priuately or publikely and that certaine witnesses are to be vsed But if you aske them what things these are against whom they are committed whether they must be priuate or publicke trespasses what kind of witnesses are ment here by our Sauiour euerie one of these pointes being of the verie essence of their pretended discipline they will tell you their minds when they know what to thinke of all these points themselues Si peccauerit in te If thy brother sinne against thee Nay that is not well translated You must say If thy brother trespasse against thee But it were better to translate it If thy brother offend or scandalize thee c. The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to sinne in this place being referred to men doth not signifie to sinne sayth Beza but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to offend The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hath in this place his proper signification that is to sinne sayth Snecanus Beza All sinnes or offensions are not here meant but those only that are called offendiculae that is stumbling blocks to mens consciences Snecanus All sinnes are here meant as vvell against God as man hovvsoeuer they be committed eyther by violence or by deceit in vvords or deeds of purpose or vnaduisedly Againe Snecanus Christ speaketh here of iniuries committed Beza Christ doth not speake here of any iniuries committed Gallasius Christ doth speake here of common faults and not of those vvhich are more hainous vz. such as tend to the ouerthrovv either of religion or of the common state Caluin Christ speaketh here of all sorts of sinnes as vvell small as great not only of such as are delicta little offences but scelera velflagitia euen the greatest of al. Nay sayth Beza Christ speaketh here of no sinnes neither great nor small sauing of the greatest sinne of all sinnes vvhich is contumacia aduersus ecclesiam contumacie against the church that is the presbiteri Againe Beza Christ speaketh not here of any offence ob priuatum damnum for priuate losse but of an offense that Gods commandement is broken But Snecanus sayth that Christ speaketh of iniuries vvhether vve are hurt or sustaine losse Si peccauerit in te If thy brother sinne against thee Caluin They are deceiued vvho thinke that Christ in this place doth not speake de secretis delictis of secret sinnes Beza They are deceiued vvho thinke that Christ in this place doth speake de priuatis delictis of priuat sinnes Gallasius Facessere debet quaestio c. the question of publike and manifest sinnes which may otherwise bee punished away with it For Christ speaketh here de secretis peccatis of secret sinnes Snecanus Christ speaketh heere of all sinnes aswell publicke as priuate And Cartwright Christ speaketh here of priuate sinnes and then a maiori of publicke Hereunto also do appertaine the other two pointes vz. against whom any of these sinnes whether priuate or publicke are saide to be committed and of the witnesses Against thee That is saith Beza against another te conscio thou knowing of it One committeth an vnlawfull act against some other man thou knowest it and art thereuppon offended because in committing the sayde act hee hath broken Gods commaundement Against thee That is sayth Gallasius against thee who art iniured In te laeso against thee that art hurte saith Snecanus And maister Caluin doth likewise if I vnderstand him so expounde that place against thee reckoning them contentious men that say otherwise But now concerning the witnesses being a part also of this point in hand Since her Maiesties raigne which the Lorde for his Christs sake cōtinue long ouer vs there was a great contention betweene two Ministers of the French church in London N. Gallasius and one P. Alexander about this verie matter And as it should seeme there was partes taking Maister Caluins opinion is with Gallasius and maister Bezaes with Alexander Caluin and Gallasius as you haue heard do thinke that Christ in this place whē he saith against thee and betweene him and thee alone and if hee heare not thee c. doth speake of such
of our seruice of God and all our lawes orders ceremonies and priuileges thervnto appertaining to haue had the Geneua discipline established in place thereof may greatly reioice at their good discretion considering that if then they had preuailed we had admitted of that forme of church-gouernment which the very cheefe supplicators instigators of them at that time do now themselues condemne as you haue heard into the pit of hell and so they might haue bene as readie to haue set forward this second deuise as they were for the former But men I hope will be more carefull hereafter then to be carried away with euery noueltie if it haue but any shew of reasonable probabilitie And maister Cartwright with the rest of his chiefe adherents might certainly do God and the church great seruice if without any longer standing vpon the maintainance of their own credits they would be content to confesse their former ouersights in laying downe those false principles wherevpon the new hereticks do build and acknowledge the truth vz. that the present gouernment of the church of England as both holy and Apostolicall and that the reformation of religion already made by her maiesties most princely care and heauenly direction is such a reformation abuses there may be and it were heresie to dreame of any puritie as euery good Christian ought to praise God for it from the bottome of his heart and not onely to allow of it but to maintayne and defend it both with his goods and life Maister Cartvvright began well in his epistle against Harrison but he should do better if hee would so continue and proceede forward One extremitie is best discerned by the other Barrovves folly may teach him wisedome The consequence doth often shew the grossenesse of the Antecedent And many learned men haue bene brought by the importunitie of such kind of aduersaries to see their own mistakings and so to grow vnto a farre better moderation As euen in the chapter following and in this very cause of discipline it will appeare I trust vnto you CAP. XXXIIII Of their disagreement concerning the necessitie of the Consistoriall gouernment IT were very hard if the fauourers of the Geneua platforme should vrge the same vvith any pretence of necessitie They talke of pastors doctors elders deacons widdowes and of many things els but as yet besides their obstinacie to continue in the course which they haue begun for the maintenance of their credits they are not throughly agreed almost in any thing To tell vs therfore of a matter that should be necessarie and withall to confesse in effect that they know not what it is should argue in my opinion some very great rashnesse and follie When maister Caluin dealt with maister Bullinger and others for their good fauour and friendship towards the continuance of his new deuised platforme in Geneua as you haue heard at large in the second chapter there was not a word you may sweare it of any necessitie that all oother churches should be enforced to submit thēselues to that deuise M. Caluin himselfe at that time as I am persuaded did not so much as dreame of any such matter A very graue and learned man of the French nation hath faythfully reported that when the forme of the Geneua discipline was first admitted of by the ministers of France in one of their cheefest synods which hath bene kept there of late yeares about the Church affaires it was not then receaued by them in that assemblie as a necessary order prescribed by Christ that ought alwaies to be continued but as a forme of discipline conuenient and fit for the afflicted estate of their churches in those times which might afterwards bee altered and changed as occasions should require And because you might not doubt of the certayntie of this report You shall vnderstand that the author of it was himselfe present in the sayd assemblie and not a man of the meanest account amongst them With whom also another great person of that countrie a man of state and great learning agreed when hee affirmed to one of very good place in England as the same partie hath told me that the forme of discipline which is now receaued by the French ministers was neuer meant by them to be otherwise admitted of then for an interim till things might be better considered of and ordered These testimonies I vrge no further then as reports neyther would I haue you to giue any further credit vnto them then as you shall thinke meet vpon this my bare relation Howbeit whether the persons specified did make any such report or not it seemeth to mee that the thing it selfe is true which they are sayd to haue reported For thus I find it set downe in the end of the forme of Ecclesiasticall discipline agreed vpon by the resolution not of one but of fiue generall Synods of the reformed Churches of the realme of Fraunce These articles say they vvhich are here contayned touching discipline are not so decreed vpon amongst vs but if the profite of the church shall require they may bee chaunged But it shall not bee in the povver of one priuate man to do it vvithout the aduise and consent of a generall councell In all maister Caluins time for ought I find the necessitie which now is pretended for the consistoriall discipline was no where insisted vpon A church in those daies might haue had all the true notes of the church of Christ although it had wanted that platforme of Geneua Maister Caluin in his Institutions could find but tvvo necessary Simbola ecclesiae dignoscendae verbi predicationem sacramentorum obseruationem signes of discerning the church the preaching of the vvord and the obseruation of the sacraments Bertrand de Loque in like sort he was able to bring forth no other substantiall notes of the Church but those tvvo No more was Philip of Mornay the lord of Plessis He maketh mention indeed of a third marke vz. the lawfull vocation of pastors but hee sayth that it is not a marke of substance In the great assemblie at Poictiers in France 1561 vvhere Peter Martir A Marlorat N. Galatius and diuers other ministers of the reformed churches were present maister Beza being there also and hauing his turne to speake before the king of Fraunce the queene of Nauarre the cardinall of Lorraine and sundrie other bishops hee durst not insist vpon any other firme and certaine notes of the visible Church of Christ but the two notes mentioned purum dei verbum sincera sacramentorum administratio the pure vvord of God and the sincere administration of the sacraments There are sayth hee some that do adde ecclesiasticall discipline and the fruits of preaching sed c. duabus illis erimus contenti but c. vve vvill bee content vvith these tvvo first Agreeably to this doctrine that there are but two necessarie and substantiall marks of the church the cheefest learned men in Christendome both
Christiā whosoeuer to separat himselfe either from their assemblies or from the receiuing of the Lords supper with them But if any so did he assigneth him his place amongst certain old hereticks Olim duae fuerunt haereticorum sectae c. In times past there vvere sayth he tvvo sorts of hereticks vvhich troubled the Church greatly The one sort of them vvere called Puritans the other Donatists And both of them vvere in the same error that these dreamers are in seeking for a Church vvherein there should vvant nothing that might be desired Therefore they diuided themselues from the vniuersall society of Christians least they should be defiled vvith other mens impurities But vvhat came of it Dominus eos cum tam arroganticoepto dissipauit The Lord himselfe scattered them vvith that their proud attempt Where by the way it is meet to be obserued that a man may sticke so fast to the Geneua discipline as he may prooue himselfe to bee either a puritane or a Donatist or both Maister Beza in like maner by reason of some opposition which hath bene made against the Sauoyan platforme is growne as it seemeth to some kind of moderation For speaking of the pretended necessitie of it hee sayth that the doctrine onely vz. vvhat vve are to beleeue is absolutely necessarie and also further addeth that seeing a man sometimes may be saued vvithout the participation of the sacraments the same may bee sayd much more of the vvant of ecclesiasticall discipline Now verely we are to thanke him he hath done much for vs. We may be saued though the memorie of this discipline were vtterly buried But the point which I chiefely note is this that there is great difference in maister Bezaes iudgement betwixt the necessitie of the first two notes of the church and this third of his own deuise And therein he giueth in effect the flat lye to maister Cartvvright for charging him to hold that all the said 3 notes as they are notes were equally necessarie And Trauers also is checked by his good maister in that he wil needs make as it hath bene said the censures of his cōsistories to be in the same absolute degree of necessity both with the word and sacraments But I wil follow M. Beza whilest I haue him in his good mood The vvhole church vvanted circūcision in the vvildernes saith he vvhilest they vvere in Babylon they neither had temple nor sacrifices and yet neuerthelesse they ceassed not to be the people of God And the same may then be said much more of the ecclesiastical discipline vz. Ecclesias vt illa careant tamen ecclesias verè pias Christianas esse posse si doctrinam praecipuorū dogmatum purā ac sincerā habuerint That the churches that vvant that discipline may notvvithstanding bee indeed godly and Christian churches if they retaine the doctrine of the cheefest grounds pure and sincere Now if Beza will giue this testimonie of a church that wanteth both his discipline and the sacraments hauing but only the principall grounds of religiō what should he say of those churches which haue not onely a better discipline then that which hee vrgeth but also the said sincere grounds with the doctrine true vse of both the holy sacramēts in as great reuerence at the least as they haue them at Geneua You shall heare him what he is driuen to say of the present estate of the church of England The places haue bene cited in the eight chapter to another purpose He must be pardoned to come in with his If because any thing from him that soundeth not after the Geneua tune is very much But if the churches of England sayth he being vnderpropped vvith the authoritie of Bishops and Archbishops do firmely abide as this hath happened in our memorie to that church that shee hath had men of that order not onely vvorthie Martyrs of God but most singular pastors and doctors fruatur sane ista singulari Dei beneficentia quae vtinam illi sit perpetua Let her enioy this singular goodnesse of God vvhich I pray shee may so do for euer And in another place speaking likewise vvith some good tearmes of the Church of England and of our Archbishops and Bishops he turneth himselfe cleane about and sayth that they of Geneua do not prescribe to any church to follovv their peculiar example like vnto ignorant men vvho thinke nothing vvell but that they do themselues Againe also the same maister Beza in his booke which Erastus confuted not in that which Beza hath since published but in the written and true copie of it he speaketh in this sort Nomine ecclesia Geneuensis in the name of the church of Geneua to those that account the Geneuian Eldership to be but humanum commentum a humane deuise Petimus vt quemadmodum patienter ferimus ipsos a nobis c. dissentire VVe desire of them that as vve suffer them patiently to dissent from vs c. so they vvould heare vs modestly refelling their arguments nullo cum ecclesiarum preiudicio quas sibi credit as administrant VVithout any preiudice to those churches that they haue taken the charge of For vvhere some do obiect that vve account those churches that vvant either excommunication or such an eldership to be no churches it is obiected immerito Deus testis est vndeseruedly on our parts God is our vvitnesse and it is much more a slander vvhere it is giuen out that vve do bring a nevv tyrannie into the church nostra velle reliquis obtrudere and endeuor to obtrude our forme of discipline vnto the rest of the reformed churches Non est ita fratres It is not so brethren Furthermore in like manner in the same place afterward Quicunque vero hanc disciplinam in suis ecclesiis non modo inutilem verumetiam noxiam fore iudicant fruantur sane suo sensu c. VVhosoeuer do iudge this discipline not only vnprofitable but hurtfull to their churches let them enioy their ovvn sense They vndoubtedly do see vvhat their flocks will indure neither doubt vve but that men of so great learning and of so great antiquitie our reuerend bretheren in the Lord haue their reasons Et quis nos constituit alieni gregis iudices And vvho hath made vs iudges of other mens flocks He seldome hath vttered a truer speech But how these sayings do agree with that which he hath sayd before in the third chapter you may not curiously scanne it Indeed he should seeme to be farre now from his former opinion when he sayd in effect That it vvas to little purpose for any church to admit of the gospell and to reiect his discipline But he writeth in mine opinion as it hath bene sayd of old time some courtiers in the world do vse to speake that is for the most part as the present occasion serueth their turnes Such companie they may fal into as they wil commend him to the skies whom
Iustice. By this the wealth and honour of the Realme woulde be encreased and contentions brawles and vnnecessary pleas would be preuented idle men of all sortes might be sette in order and the poore men greatly comforted The nobility and comminalty might haue their right Men would not grudge at triflinge charges for Warre Souldiers woulde bee made obedient to their Captaines patient and couragious It woulde bring strength and victorie and keepe out of Kinges Dominions ignoraunt wicked and flattering men Here out of the defence of Ecclesiasticall gouernement Pag. 121. 122. 123. 127. 134. Whereof commeth it that Arrians Valentinians and Anabaptistes with other detestable Heretiques are so rise in many places in this land is it not thereof that there is no Eldership Whereof commeth it that horrible blaspheming the holye and most reuerend name of God quarrelling and fighting dronkennes filthy speaking fornication adultery slaundering and such like runne ouer almost in euery place Is it not hereof that there is no Eldership Whereof commeth it that in so many excellent lawes prouided against rogues and beggers there are yet such numbers is it not hereof that the office of Deacons is abolished These are singular commodities indeede which these Elderships woulde bring with them if these men might be trusted But haue they brought forth these fruicts and effectes in those countries where they are established or are they but vaine wordes of ambitious men that by such godly pretences doe little else but seeke their owne glory Consider I pray you what very learned and graue men haue written in other countries of these and such like men as these and their fellowes are together with the estate of some of those countreis wher they haue their Elderships Maister Bullinger writing to a Bishop in England of our English innouators saith thus They imitate in mine opinion those seditious Tribunes of Rome who by vertue of the Agrarian Lawe bestowed the publicke goods that they might priuately inritch themselues that is that you meaning the Bishops being ouerthrowen they might succeede in your places c. But they goe about to erect a Church which they shall neuer aduaunce as they desire neither if they shoulde can they euer be able to continue it And after in the same Letter I woulde to God there were not in the Authors of this Presbytery libido dominandi an ambitious desire of rule and principality Nay I thinke it ought especially to be prouided for that there be not any high authoritye giuen to this Presbytery c. Whereof manie thinges might bee saide but time will reueale many thinges which yet lie hidde Maister Gualter in like sorte writeth thus to the Bishop of London for the time being Many doe vrge in these daies vnder a plausible name of Ecclesiasticall Discipline I know not what a platforme without the which they denie that any Churches can continue But I doe greatly feare least they bringe vs in an Aristocratie which will shortly degenerate into an Oligarchie and become the beginning of a newe Papacie For their onely labour is to sette vs vp a Presbyterie whereinto certaine honest men are indeede admitted but yet so as the Ministers will doe in a manner what they list It was of late decreed by the Ministers at Heidelberge that no man should bee admitted to the Lords Supper except he first offered himselfe to the Pastor For Paules rule is not helde sufficient there vz. that euerie man should trie himselfe The Elders did not agree to this decree but yet notwithstading it is vrged in the name of the Presbytery nay of the whole Church c. But there was not long since suche an example of a new tyrannie there as may iustlie feare anie that careth for the liberty of the Church There is there an Heluetian the Gouernour of the Colledge of Saint Denis as innocent and godly a man as liueth Howbeit Oleuianus the Pastor warned him by the crier of the Presbyterie in the name of all the Elders that he should not come to the Lordes Supper adding this cause that he could not admit him absque animi sui offensione without the offence of his minde The party tooke this dealing as it was reason in euill part and defireth to know what he hath committed that deserued such a punishment But they answered him not otherwise then that they continued in the same minde Whereuppon he offered a Supplication vnto the prince Elector that he would compell them to shewe the fault if there were any that he had committed But vntill this daie he coulde extort nothing else in effect from them This is their goodly order this is their Discipline Quare video nobis seriò vigilandum esse ne ex Romanae hydrae vix domitae vulneribus noua capita pullulent wherefore I see we are to be vigilant least new heads doe budde out of the woundes of the Romish hydra scarsely yet subdued And in another letter to the Bishop of Ely of the same matter he addeth that the Prince Elector vppon the said parties complaint did moue the Elders to shew what hee had committed that they dealt so with him Sed ne hoc ab illis impetrare potuit but he could not preuaile so much Marry at the last saith Maister Gualter being many waies more earnestly vrged thereunto they fell to coining of lies and perswaded the Prince that he abstained from the Lords supper of his own accord and now of that his voluntary forbearing woulde knowe the cause of them Many such things are done which it woulde be too long to rehearse Seeing they beginne in this sorte hauing not as yet any full possession of their new kingdom what shall we thinke they will doe si merum imperium obtineant if they obtaine an absolute authority By this letter also it seemeth that long since by Oecolampadius meanes notwithstandinge Zwinglius withstood it there was such a like forme of regiment erected in Basill but shortly after saieth Maister Gualter he was compelled to giue it ouer againe learning by experience that he had attempted a matter of greater discommodity then profite I cannot therefore dislike of them that oppose themselues to these endeuours who so busily in these daies pleade this for matter c. There are in Germanie and in another certaine plâ—â—e hee meaneth I thinke Geneua that denie the kingdome of Christ canne continue except the Discipline which they haue deuised be receaued in euery place I doc containe my selfe that I may not bee saide to haue begonne the fight Sin illi Classicum cecinerint but if they sound vp the Alarum I cannot choose but defend the doctrine of truth and the libertie of the Church not doubting but that many will ioyne with mee herein The same Gualter also again in another letter to the said Bishop of Ely I shall not neede to vse many wordes what I thinke of your innouators sith I haue done it in my last
Letters And surely I am greatlie confirmed in my former opinion by the examples which such like innouators in Germany doe bring forth Video enim illis hominibus nihil ambitiosius nihil insolentius nihil ineptius fingi posse For whereas there are many thinges most wickedly done by them daily yet they are not ashamed to pretende the zeale of God in excuse of those thinges which contrarie to the worde of God they deuise both wickedly and maliciouslie against the seruauntes of Christ. But as farre as I canne coniecture many by whose counsaile and assistaunce the frame of this Discipline was chiefely erected are nowe ashamed of them But that which Maister Gualter writte the same yeare to Bishop Sands is most pertinent I vnderstand that the strife amongest you procured by certain turbulent innouators doth wax hotte and that they are gone so farre that vnder the plausible title of good order and Discipline they desire the whole gouernement and pollicy of the Church of England to be vtterly ouerthrowen Surely I should meruaile at the immodesty and wilfull desire of contention in these men but that I see the same in practise else-where especiallie in all those places where the authority of the bretheren of Geneua is so greatly esteemed that Geneua is accounted the Oracle of all Christendome God hath indeed adorned that Church with diuerse excellent gifts and the Ministers thereof amongest whom Maister Beza I haue alwaies reuerenced and loued and doe so still But yet I would wish them modestiùs humiliùs sapere and not seeke to draw their shooe vppon euery mans foote c. What hath beene done in the Palsegraues Countrey I writte vnto you before Surely the state there as touching Discipline and the gouernement of the Church all men that come thence doe say it is worse then it was before and it is sure that many doe repent that they euer admitted these mens counsaile But yet the Geneuians doc still endeuour to thrust that their Discipline vppon all Churches And if they shall deny this they may bee sufficiently conuinced by the Booke of Theologicall examples that Beza published this other yeare that they suggest their arguments and councels not onelye to you Englishmen but in like sorte to the Germans Phrisians Polonians and Hungarians whereby amongest those that agreede well together before rixae turbae enascuntur brawlings and quarrels doe arise c. And so hauing signified what troubles the innouators beyond the seas as well as in England doe procure to the Church he moueth the Bishop to doe as he and Maister Bullinger did that is to moderat such busie wittes as they might for a time For saith he spero aedificium hoc nouae Disciplinae breui propria mole ruiturum quando satis constat iam eius pertaesos esse qui priús illud admirabantur I hope the frame of this new Discipline will in short time fall of it selfe considering that many are nowe become wearie of it that had it before in admiration An other likewise a Gantois a very graue and learned man as well acquainted with this Discipline as Maister Cartwright is being desired to write his opinion whether it had brought forth such effectes in Holland as is before pretended it would doe in England for aunswere saieth Is any man able to repeate the monstrous Heresies and errors that Holland doth nourishe c. vnder the shadowe of reformed religion this is aimed at vz. that the turpitude of all blasphemies being couered with this cloake may lie hid and that it may be lawfull without controlement if anie list to recall the old Paganisme or to professe Mahomets Religion or what worse is if there be anie thing worse Againe the Magistrates haue inuaded the Church-goods The Ministers haue little allowaunce There is no respect of the study of Diuinitie The Magistrates doe suspect the forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement first becāuse they feare least it will degenerate into a worse tyrannie then the Spanishe Inquisition Secondly for that they see a new Senat of Elders in their Townes to exercise with the Ministers a censure of manners without lawes but such as they make themselues and without anie lawfull forme of Iustice. The olde Canon law is abrogated and the Magistrates will allow no new For they feare that the new would prooue worse then the olde Besides they will not committe the fame of themselues and theirs to the arbitrement of ignoraunt men such as for the most parte their Elders are who may abuse their authority rashly and laie such an infamy of adulterie or other grieuous offence vpon a mans backe as hee shall not afterwards easily cast from him The Ministers desire that the Magistrates would punish those that disobey their commaundements which they will neuer doe except they may first by due course of law heare the cause they of that Consistory being either actors or accusers and that the Ministers and Elders refuse to doe c. Besides some of the Ministers themselues that professe the Gospell are not free from those swarmes of Heresie which doe make their hiues there c. And in an other letter speakinge of the generall euent of that kinde of discipline Vereor ne exemplum Geneuensis ecclesiae et quarundam aliarum ecclesiarū quae eam secutae sunt maiorem quà m vulgo creditur perniciem ecclesiae adferat I feare least the example of the church of Geneua and some other Churches that followe her may bring greater mischiefe to the Church then is commonly beleeued One William Hart a minister the preacher not long since at Emden notwithstandinge all their goodly reformation in those partes yet writ in this sort therof vnto his secret friend M. Field Corruption by custome is so strong that none can abide the yoake and wonder you would if you sawe what grosse thinges the best ministers doe cleane deuoure and those of the middle sort doe earnestly stande and pleade for If you did see the confused state of the Churches of these countries you would say that England howe badde soeuer were a paradise in comparison and yet I haue not forgotten the blots and wantes thereof The trueth which he speaketh of the Church of England is to bee imbraced for the rest you may ascribe it vnto his factious humors Furthermore also there are some other countries not yet mentioned where the pretended discipline is in practise and yet there are noe such fruites founde thereof as are ascribed vnto the intertainement of it Be pleased to heare what an espetiall man of some one countrie a minister a gentleman greatly descended a person of chiefe aestimation hath published to the worlde in print Cum priuilegio Regali and procured to be sent abroade into other countries in certaine of his seruauntes names The prophane multitude of this kingdom they disdain the word spitefully There are two sins ioyned in the prophane multitude glottony and bloud They go forward in all course of sin the