a doubt but wil willingly submyt himself to her iudgemeÌ„t Nether doth it make agaiÌ„st vs that the church was afore the word For it is most certain that the word which afterwards was put in writing is much more auncient For by it was the church coÌ„ceued born bred But this saying of Austine is not to bee obâ—…ected that he wuld not beleue the scripture vnlesse the autoritie of the scripture moued him therto But we must vnderstand yâ— in that place Austine spake of himself as of a Maniche w e whose erroure he was once seduced I pray you if ther rise ani doubt of the truth of any writing to whoÌ„ go we to trie it but to yâ— coÌ„moÌ„ notary to whose custody al writiÌ„gs monumeÌ„ts are coÌ„mitted Neyther therfore doth it folow that the autority of the writyng depeÌ„deth on the witnes of the notarye For of it self it is true though no mortal maÌ„ beare witnesse hereof So truely must we answer theÌ„ which thynk yâ— the authoritie of the holy scripture dependeth vpoÌ„ the coÌ„stitutioÌ„s decrees of the church The decrees of of that couÌ„cels are manye tymes coÌ„trary in this question But all these things shal be more fullye opened in disputation consereÌ„ce I wil shewe only reason confirmed with the autority of certayn auncient allowed fathers Christ himself gaue so much authority to the doctrine of the prophets whom he had sent afore that by theyr witnesse he would confirme his doctrine Paul also suffred the ThessaloniaÌ„s so to do willed theÌ„ to searche the scriptures to know whether he had taught theÌ„ truly Ac. xvii c. xi Peter allowed that selfesame reason ii Peter ii d. xix They therfore which boast theÌ„selnes to be the vicars of Christ the successors of Peter Paule ought not to refuse yesame coÌ„ditioÌ„ Ca. ix li. ii Truely Ierome vpoÌ„ Hieremy sayth that nether the error of the fathers nor of our auncesters by the authority of the Scriptures is to be folowed ChrisoftoÌ„ vpon the .xxiiii. Chapter of Mathew the 49. Homelye erpounding thys place Those that be in Iury let them flye to the mouÌ„taynes sayeth that is those that be Christians let theÌ„ flye to the Scriptures And again Wherefore doth he in this tyme wil al Christians to fly to the Scriptures Bicause in thys tyme since heresy inuaded the churche there can be no other proofe of true Christendome neither any other refuge for Christians minding to knowe the true fayth but the diuine Scriptures For afore it appeared by many signes which was the church of Christ and whiche it of the Gentiles But now whosoeuer wil seke it can by no other meanes discerne which is the true church of Christe but onely by the Scriptures Also he saieth further If a maÌ„ therfore be wylling to knowe the true church of Christ howe should he know it in so great coÌ„fusyon but only by the Scriptures Yet further therfore the lord knowiÌ„g that ther shuld be so great coÌ„fusioÌ„ in the latter dayes therfore doth Christ coÌ„mauÌ„d the those that be in christianitye such as be willing to streÌ„gtheÌ„ theÌ„selues in 〈◊〉 faith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…o other thing but the Scriptures Otherwise if they â—…pâ—…e any other changes they shal likely â—… 〈◊〉 â—…sh not vnderstaÌ„ding which is the true châ—…rch and so shal they faâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of defolatioÌ„ which 〈◊〉 yâ— holy places of the churche 〈◊〉 in his moralls writeth thus If whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne as the Apostle â—…ayth and faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the worde of God whatsoeuer is besides Scripture inspired of God is â—…n Also in the Sermon of the confession of faith If God be faithful in al his words and hys commaundementes â—…me and stable for euer done in truth iustice to reiect any thing that is written or to bring in any thing not written is a sweruing from fayth manifest pride Thus much was spoken of the churche her signes authority and succession afore the Lordes and Bishops and diuerse other which heard thesame very attentiuely But bicause hys oration had bin already somewhat loÌ„g it semed good then to entreate nothing of the supper Wherfore Beza medestly excusyng hymself declaryng also that we wer ready to shew a reason of that article and as much as lay in vs to satisfy theÌ„ if they would commaund vs forthwith to doe it When Beza had ended the Cardynal beckned to Spensa to speak and to answere our reasons He protestyng with many woordes that he had long wyshed for this coÌ„ference disputatioÌ„ that he neuer lyked alwaies contrary to those cruel punishmeÌ„ts which had loÌ„g tymes bene vsed toward them answered that those thinges were true which we had sayd of the churche her sygnes and succession If we had so taught and spoken at the first we should neuer haue neded to haue come to this controuersy But whereas we spake of the callyng into the churche he muche maruelled by whose authoritye or by what callyng we entred into the churche and toke vpon vs to teache Forasmuch as we wer not instituted by any ordinaryes neyther they at any tyme had layd theyr handes vpon vs. And hereof he gathered yâ— we wer no good pastors For by ordinary meanes quoth he you wer not called and muche lesse by extraordinary For extraordinarye vocation must bee proued eyther by miracles as the callyng of Moses was who was raysed vp of God to delyuer his people or els by the witnesse of the scripture as the callyng of Iohn whose vocation is plainlye proued by a terte of Malachye you want bothe Whereof it foloweth that youre ministerye is vnlawfull But as concernyng tradytions and the interpretyng of the scryptures yf there ryse any controuersye we ought to referre it quothe he to the ordinary successours as those to whoÌ„ the holy ghost is promised and are appoynted of God for the same cause He brought foorth the exaumples of the olde Priestes and Leuites whiche in tymes paste in doubtful matters gaue the people couÌ„cel to whose iudgemente the people were so bounde to stande that from theyr decree it was not lawfull for them to swarue neyther on the ryghte hande neyther yet on the left And that we had many thinges by tradition whiche no manne doubtes of no not we oure selues As yâ— the father is without beginnyng the son equall in substance to him also that yong children ought to be Baptised that Mary was a virgin after her deliuerance such lyke So he affirmed that those thinges which are descended vnto vs from the auncient fathers albeit they bee not written yet are certainelye to be beleued and no lesse to be allowed than if they were confirmed by the authority of the Scriptures That whatsoeuer is decreed by generall councels is certain and that they can not erre in doctrine But as to that which is cyted out of Austine that the first counsels ar amended by the later that he said neuer
all agreed it best to abstayne frō force But neuetthelesse they meant to prouyde that their feare patience should not encrease the furye and insolence of their foes First of al therfore wheras their number was so great that the cōgregation could not assemble wythin their priuate howsen they determined to come together openly and to haue their sermons and readinges in the open congregations Partly bicause necessitie enforced them therto and partly to cleare themselues of such slaunderous reports as already their impudēt aduersaries had raysed of them For it was openly bruted that most haynous and detestable crimes were committed in their assemblies Therefore they came into the yardes and open places some in their priuate howsen and some in the opē cities Few toke the churches For least any thing should be rashly or vnaduisedly done or leasr their aduersaryes myght haue any couloure to accuse them of rebellion the ministers pastours of euery Churche as much as they myght kept the multitude in awe and order yet neuerthelesse hereof rose sondry tumultes and facrions of their aduersaryes Which notwithstanding could not staye or hynder their open metinges Hereof rose sondry troubles and great suspition and feare of rebellion And thys caused at the last that by the commaundement of the kyng and hys councell it was openly proclaimed that none shuld iniury or molest other for any matter of religiō After thys also was published an other whereby as wel the Bishops as other nobles of the realme were commaunded to repayre to Poyssye to deliberate both for the leauyeng of a tribute to discharge the kynges dettes to foren Princes but chefely for the reforming of the estate of religion Therby also the kinges peace and safecondwite was graunted to all suche as woulde come thither freely to propose whatsoeuer perteined to true religion and the establishing of cōcord And it was commaunded vnder payne of death that no mā should trouble thē cōming together assembled or departing but that quietly and freely they myght mete together without trouble or veracion Shortly after by an Act of parliamēt in that which the Bishops and other nobles of the realme wer not only parties but rulers it was decreed vnder paine of death that hereafter none should make any assemblies eyther for preaching or for ministring of the Sacramentes or for mariage other where than in the Churches or after any other sorte than the olde and accustomed maner And furthermore that wythin a certayne space the mynisters that professed the Ghospell should departe the realme of Fraunce Hereof rose gret trouble Bicause now their liberty of comming together takē away it was likely to be greatly preiudicial to the tryall of the whole matter After thys the nobles met at Poyssye Shortly after the ministers of the Gospel came to the court to the king which then lay at Saynt Germans nye to Poyssye Thither somwhat afore were come certayne chosen men sent by the refourmed churches out of the .xii. prouinces to aduaunce religiō These deliberating with the others determined to offer vp to the king a boke in maner of a supplication wherby they woulde uponsome meanes to disputation and conference Therewithal also was geuen vp the cōfession of that faith which they professed thēselues ready to maintayne and defende Of that boke the thiefe poyntes were fowre First that no Bishops nor others of the ecclesiasticall orders should vsurpe the authoriti of Iudges ouer vs. Forasmuch as it behoueth rather that they themselues shoulde pleade their owne cause and stande in triall of reformation Secondly that the king Queene and nobilitie should rule the whole doinges leaste any trouble might arsie So that without contention and strif all matters myght be handeled and decreed Thirdly that al controuersies might be tryed by the worde of god whereupō onely all our fayth and religion ought to be grounded Fourthly that certayne notaryes and Scribes should be chosē of eyther part which might faithfully register whatsoeuer wer done or decreed Whose notes should be of no credite vnlesse they were allowed and confessed of either part These requestes no man misliked And the kyng answered that he would take thaduise of his councell and by his Chauncelour shortly make them an answere yet thesame was long deferred Bicause the matter was cōmunicated with the Bishops without whose councel or knowledge to do any thing it semed not mete For not only for thys matter of religion had the kyng assembled them but also for the leauyeng of mony to discharge hys dettes They waxing proude wyth thys confydence that the kyng semed to nede their aide assured themselues of the obtayning of any thyng agaynste vs nothyng doutyng the assured conquest of Ladye money Furthermore they tryfled and prolonged the tyme seeking al occasions to auoide our conference and disputation For they sayd we were already condemned and that they might not dispute with heretykes These and such other like their accustomed stayes they began to blase whiche neuerthelesse afterwardes they denied Boasting that they wer ready to he are vs. For they were ashamed openly to refuse our conference sith by their own consent we were sent for thither But they fully perswaded themselues that our courage or constancy would not be such as to hasard our lyues for that speach of our wordes Duryng this tyme oure nūber increased For out of euery prouince not in Fraunce onely but also from al the realmes adioyning as many as might without the hynderaunce of their churches drew thither Wherfore at the last we chose certayne to the nūber of .xii. whose names wer these Augustine Malorat Fraūces of Paulon Iohn Remonde Merlin Iohn Mallet Fraūces Morel Nicolas Tolye Theodore Beza Claudius Bessierus Iohn Bodwine Iohn Virell Iohn a Tures Nicolas Gallasius To these Iohn Soma adioyned himself which openly renounced papacy and subscribed to the doctrine Discipline of our Churches Afterwardes came also the reuerende father in God Peter Martir sent for from Tigur Whose comming was scarsely acceptable to our aduersaryes aswell for his singular learning as also for the maiesty and authority which both his Godlinesse and reuerende age haue gotten hym What in thys meane tyme was don of the Bishops whiche were assembled at Poyssye I thynke not good to ouerpasse For least any man should thynke they were ydle I wyl shew wyth what grauer matters they were letted so that they could not presētly heare vs. These questions they disputed amōges themselues What ought to be prescribed vnto Bishops Of the dignities of cathedral churches Of the Canonicalls their exemptions Of Curates their institutiō either by presentation or ordinary collatiē Of assigning them a Canonicall portion Of the lesser that is to wyt the ignoraunt chaplens and their vnreasonable number Of the reformation of monasteryes What should be done of cōmendes Of the number of benefices and their incompatibility What waye hereafter they myght prouide for churches and Monasteryes in time of vacation Whether there myght be any
Church is it which is euery where knowen and of all meÌ„ To the authority of yâ— church he sayd al interpretation of Scriptures and making of traditions ought to bee referred Saying that the succession as well of that Church as of the pastours therof was perpetual but of the Lordes Supper he so entreated the touching nothing at al of the chauÌ„ge of the natures of the elements he came very nye to their opinion which ioyne the body bloud of Christ with the elementes And say that they be both vnder them and in them Which afterwardes we vnderstode was done for a polecy partly to procure their fauoure whom he had so kindly clawed and partly to make vs the more hatefull to them Neither yet did he plainly agree with them but shewed that in thys respect he did willingly ioyne with them that they myghte ioyntly warre against vs. The ende of his oration was to this effect That the kyng and his counsell leauing our opinion should folow the steppes of theyr for fathers and not leaue their accustomed vsage When he had ended we desired that presently whiles the memory therof was yet fresh we might satisfye his obiections and refute his argumeÌ„tes For we feared least after thys the Cardinals answere we should scarcely haue leasure or liberty afterwardes to speake Bicause the day afore many bragged that we shuld loke for nothing els thaÌ„ condemnation the thuÌ„derbolt of excomunication Neyther wer we ignorant therof The Queene taking the aduise of her couÌ„cel coÌ„maunded vs to depart saying that we should answere it an other tyme that she would appoint vs a day wheÌ„ we shuld be preseÌ„t again And surely meruaile had it ben if the byshops which wer of that couÌ„cel would haue geueÌ„ any other councel The next day againe we desired that we might be preseÌ„tly heard and the tyme no longer proloÌ„ged But we could obtayne nothing neither wer we heard before the eight day In the meane time false rumors were spred abrode that we wer ouercome put to sileÌ„ce had nothyng to say Whereas we were ready to haue answered their oration presently And how false such tales be here by men may sufficiently gesse that the Bishops did what they could to breake of the coÌ„ference so that at the last by their importunity they obteined of the Queene that the matter shuld not be opeÌ„ly heard afore the king but in a more secret place afore few Therfore it was deferred til the .xxiiii. day of that moneth at the whiche coÌ„maunded to returne to Poyssye we came before the Quene the king Queen of Nauarre the rest of the Lordes and counsallours there were present also â—… Cardinalles and many Byshops and diuynes of al sortes we the mynisters were admitted only to the number of xij Those being seuered which wer seÌ„t froÌ„ other Churches which afore were ioyned with vs. For now the matter was heard both in narower place in lesse companye than before the Cardynals of lorayne shewed in few wordes that this assemblye was to this end that if we would obiecte any thing agaynst that which he had sayde eyght dayes before we might freely speake shuld be herd Then Beza in the name of vs al said That he would haue wished that immediatlye he might haue aunswered the Cardynalls oration whyles the same was fresh in memorye or at the least that he might haue had som copye therof that he might auÌ„swere certaynly perfectly to euery poynt but forasmuch as he coulde not obtayne that he woulde aunswere so much as he coulde call to mynde Fyrste there fore as concerning the article of the Churche which the Cardinall fyrste handled he deuided it into thre partes First what it is Then what are the marks therof Thirdly what and how great is the authoritie therof It is wel knoweÌ„ quoth he that this name Ecclesia which signifieth the church is deriued from the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifyeth to call froÌ„ on place to another Of calling we find .ii. sorts in the scriptures the one coÌ„ioyned with the working of the holy ghost wherof Paul to the Romains writeth whom he called them he iustified Rom. viii c. xxviii The other althoughe in outward shew It be al one with the first yet is altogether vnprofitable to saluation And that only through the fault of man beyng deaffe at the calling of God Of this calling spake the Lorde when he sayde That many wer called but fewe choseÌ„ Mat. xxii b. xiiii Hereof it happens that the name of the church which signifyeth the congregacion of those that are assembled by the word of god is taken .ii. wayes For generally it contayneth al those which outwardly professe to folowe the calling of god Neyther is it to be doubted but manye hypocrites and reprobate persons are within this nuÌ„ber Neither we thanks be to god therefore haue at any tyme Either written or taught otherwise for asmuch as both the scripture and also common experience doth plainly proue the same but takyng this name of the churche proprely and streyghtlye as manye tymes we doe we then say that it comprehendeth onlye the electe and chosen of god And that al men may know that we be not the authours of this maner of speache or of this doctrine when it is written that the church is the body of Christ bones of his bones fleshe of his fleshe yea when the name of Christ it selfe is geuen vnto it Eph. ii g. xxx as Paule wrytyng to the Corinthians ioyning the members with the heade calleth her Christ i. Cor. xii b. xii xvii how could in the number be contayned the reprobate in as muche as they are the members of the deuill For it cannot bee that we shoulde be members bothe of Christ and of the deuil which Austine writyng agaynste Cresconius well noteth in his seconde booke and xxiiii Chapter He also writyng on the .lxiiii. psalme vsed this distinction of the churche saying yâ— that church whiche is signifyed by IerusaleÌ„ toke her begynnyng of Abel and Babilon of Eain And afterwardes in his fyrst booke of baptysme agaynst the Donatistes the seconde Chapter wheras he taketh the name of the church more largely he saieth that he that begot Abell Enoch Noe Abraham the reste of the Prophetes begot also Cayn Ismaell Dathan and suche lyke Therefore to conclude we muste take that whiche Austine hymselfe wrote in the seuenth boke of the same booke the. 51. chapter whiche is also rehearsed .xxiiii. ix i. a. ca. All thyngs consydred it is said that there are two kynde of men in the churche Some of them sayeth he bee the members of Christe and of the house of God yea the house of GOD it self Other some bee in the house but not of the house For they bee as chaffe with the corne tyll suche tyme as they bee seuered Hereof ryseth a questyon whether the Churche bee inuisible Whiche I thynke good to affyrme and
to conclude that onely God knowes his elect chosē Yet neuerthelesse we beleue that ther is a holy church whiche is conceiued imagined and beleued not seene For if we shuld otherwise saie thereof would ensue that whiche is most repugnaunt to reason For if the churche be vnknowen vnto vs to what flock shal we stickto be pertakers of saluation when to the Church only Christ extendeth his power saluatiō we say therfore that althoughe that Churche can not be discerned by sight yet when we seeke to what flocke and companye we ought to assocyate oure selues ther be certayne notes wherby we may know discerne yesame namely the pure worde of god and the syncere administration of the sacraments These be the cleare and euident marks thereof neither is there any doute but whatsoeuer these be ther is also the true Church of god Furthermore we say That al those that professe true religiō are charitablye to be counted amonge the number of the faythful vnlesse the lorde do playnely detest their hipocrisy and dessemblynge Whereof Paule giueth vs a manifest president callinge the Corinthians and Galathians faithfull i. Cor. ii a and applying to them the general name of the churche albeit in thē there was great imperfection aswel of learning as life whiche in diuers places he himselfe complaineth For all those that haue any foundation doe not alwaies builde on the same golde siluer and pretious stones onely but also oftentimes hey chaffe and sedge i. Cor. ii c xii In this maner and sort therefore we vse to speake of the church least we should seme to appoint any fantasticall thing or that should consiste in imaginations onely or least we mighte geue any colour to ill disposed persones to deeme vs suche as were in times past y◠Canthares and Donatistes and in this our age are the Anabaptistes against whō we haue oftē reasoned about this question Nowe let vs come to the markes and signes of the true churche whiche is necessary to be discerned knowen sith out of her is no saluation And for that cause Sathan that olde enemye of man hath attempted by all meanes possible to disguise and counterfayte her to chaunge her auncient sygnes and fayne newe in their places Her vncertaine and vndoubted markes we haue sayde to be two that is to wēte the pure preachyng of the woorde and administration of the sacramentes Hereto doe some adioyne ecclesiastical discipline and fruites of fayth And trulye it is necessary that euery flock should haue some head and guyde whō they oughte to obey yf they mynde to liue in safetye but forasmuche as oure owne iniquities often tymes are the cause that we wāt the two last markes let vs content our selues with the fyrst Therefore that the worde of god is the certayne sygne of the churche herby it appeareth that bothe Christe and Peter compare the same to seede Mat. xiii a. iii iiii xi i. Pet. i. d. For the whiche cause also Paule sayth that he begat the Corinthians in Christ by preachyng the worde i. Cor. iiii c. xv Therefore in dyuerse places it is called one foode and nouryshemente this also Christe hymselfe witnesseth to pertayn to his shepe saying that they heare his voice and no others Iohn x. We adioyne hereto the Sacramentes also for that Christe woulde not onelye to oure eares but also to our eyes and the reste of oure bodylyesenses wytnesse his grace And therefore he ordeyned the Sacramentes to be certain and visible signes both of oure vnion with hym and also of charitye and loue among oure selues For that cause duryng the olde Testament it was sayde that they shoulde be banyshed the companye of the faythfull whiche had not the sygne of cyrcumcision And furthermore decreed that all householders shoulde thrice in the yere appeare before the Lorde at Ierusalem by common sacrifyce to testifye the vnitye of fayth and religion Exodus xxxiiii d. xxiii Afterwardes the Vyneyarde beyng spoyled the Gentyles grewe in one bodye with the Iewes not onely by preachyng the woorde but also by the Sacramentes of Baptysme and of the bodye and bloude of oure Lord. Yea and Christe commaunded his Apostles so to dooe saying goe ye and teache all nations Mat. xx ◠xix This is the doctryne of the woorde to the which he foorthwith adioyneth the Sacramentes saying Baptysing in the name of the Father the Sonne and the holy ghost For to baptisme also must we applye that which Paule writeth of the supper saying that what he receiued of the Lorde he deliuered to vs. i. Cor. xi c xxxii And thesame he testifieth in an other place also Namely that the Churche is founded vppon the foundation of the prophetes and the Apostles Ephe. ii d xx that is to wete vpon Iesus Christ who is the summe substaunce of all the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophetes So also must we vnderstande another texte of the same Apostle Where he sayeth that the Churche is a piller of the liuing God a bolster of truthe i. Timo. iii. d. xv Whiche meaneth that the woorde of God whiche is the truthe it selfe dothe staye and vpholde the church or els is placed in the church as in an open and sure fortresse for y◠in her god extendeth his power health to all beleuers Rom. i these are the true and visible signes of the churche Whiche therefore is called the mother of the faithfull for that they wer begotten in her by incorruptible seede and nouryshed and fed with the same fode If the preaching of the woorde and the true administration of the sacramentes be necessarily required in the churche thē muste there needes be pastours teachers to execute thesame As the holye scriptures sufficientely witnesse but chieflye Paule writyng to the Corinthians and Ephesians this was the cause that this thirde marke was adioyned hereto i. Cor. xii d. xxviii Ephe. iiii vi xi i. Timo. iii. a Ti◅ i. a vi Namely ordinary succession from the time of the Apostles Hereto we aunswer that such succession is muche to be esteemed if it be wel considered and applied after the example of the auncient fathers who groūded thereon against heretikes there newe opinions As Tertulian Ireneus and Austine againste the Maniches and Donatistes but because many lay the same against vs as though we had cōueyed into the churches new scismes and heresies it is necessarye that we should shew our minde herein We say therefore that there is one succession of doctrine an other of persōs Doctrine we graunt to be the true and vndoubted mark of the churche as it hath bene already saide For although the doctrine of the Gospell bee not therefore the more to be credited for that it is the auncientest of all other thoughe it happen many tymes for oure synnes that thesame seeme so new straunge to menne as it ought to bee familiar and vsuall yet neuerthelesse the witnesse of the continuall
L. Cardinal the rest of the lords reiect trāsubstātiatiō which now by y◠cōmon cōsent of al churches aswell in Germany as in other realmes is condemned If we be required to subscribe to any writing it is mete also that the Cardinal of Loraine in the name of al his should subscribe thesame also That the churches by whom we were sente may perceiue that we met not altogether vnprofitably about these matters If my Lord Cardinall wil constantlye perseuer in that mynde that he wil admit the whole confession of the Germaines we hope that we shall come nier and at the last to that point that we shal easely satisfy you And shewe a ready way to peace and concorde In the meane tyme we affirme that Christe is present in the vse of his Supper and there doth after geue and exhibite vnto vs his body and bloud by the power and operation of the holy ghost And if we do receiue eate drinke spiritually and by fayth the selfe same bodye that dyed for vs and the selfe same bloud y◠was shed for our saluation That we may be bones of his bones and flesh of his flesh And that we may be quickned thereby and receiue whatsoeuer is necessary to our saluation We desired also of the Queene if this satisfied her not bicause it is hard to entreate of so great a mystery with fewe words that we might speake therof in more large and ample sort And that we were ready to do it whensoeuer the Cardinall of Loraine would shew his authorities out of the olde doctours Moreouer we earnestly desired that there mighte bee some equall and tolerable order of conference or disputation taken suche as we desired euen from the beginning And we protest that therby it should appeare to all men that we came not thither to stirre contention but rather to finde meanes of concord in soūde doctriue For we desired nothing els but that those thinges restored to y◠Lordes Supper which were takē from it and taking away those thinges that were il added it might be restored to the olde perfection Which to compasse we decreed not to spare our liues but in so good a cause to yelde and render oure liues and heartes to God the king the nobles and the common quietnesse as well of this realme as of all Christendome With thys oration oure aduersaries were greatly amased but chiefly with the first parte thereof wherby they sawe the glory of their succession and callig stained For they could haue heard nothing more greuous or vnwelcome to them Therfore the Cardinall freatting much disquieted said we were now come to a good poynt y◠we were not content to inuade the dignine of Priestes But we muste also touche the kyngs maiestie For he priuyly wroughte to bring vs in hate as though we had accused the king for taking away the elections of Bishops Abbates as though the fault were in y◠kyng that none of them were chosen but as for themselues they sayd they were ordeined and instituted by the king to whom the people had geuen al their right and power therin Wherefore if we would disproue that we must speake to the kyng to whom it belonged to maintayne his lawes and ordinaunces And that we were ignoraunte how they were ordeined when all the people wer came together by the knolling of bells and therefore gessed of thinges that we knew not To conclude all hys talke was full of tauntes whereby he thought to kyndle the Queenes wrath towardes vs as though we accused the kyng of Tiranny But that slaunder was easely auoided For it was forthwith shewed that therby is the confusiō of the true ecclesiasticall order and state made muche more manifest For that kinges were fame to set to their handes to reforme that horrible disorder which ambition enuy contention and such like had lōgtyme bredde amonges the Canonicall Priestes Monkes and all the rest of y◠ecclesiasticall order And could by no other meanes remedy that sore than by taking from them the liberty of choyse which so long tyme they had shamefully and beastly abused And as to their common forme of ordaining Bishops and pastours it is right well knowen what a iest it is and therefore we wyll waste no time in speaking of it For we entred not into that matter to handle it at large but onely to shew that oure mynistery which in thys ruine and so great confusion of the church the Lord hath raysed is lawful and vnworthely mocked at You your selues began first to talke thereof quoth the Cardinall you first inuaded our flocke We came not into your garrisons but you into oures Neither would I wish you shuld thinke your selues as good as we nor talke as ye woulde to youre felowes Our estate is somewhat higher than yours Whē we saw him speake cruelly in this sort we thought good to prouoke him no longer least we mighte seme oure selues to haue hindered the disputation Then he began againe to be earnest on vs to know some reason why we would not subscribe to the cōfession of Augspurge We answered him againe y◠it was vnreasonable to require y◠of vs which do not allow it in al pointes But if they thēselues would first subscribe it would be the easier way to reconcile vs to thē And y◠we knowe not whether he of hys owne head or els by the cōsente of al the rest did put in that bill whiche he would haue subscribed I quoth the Cardinall am sworne to no man And therefore will I neither subscribe to the confession of Awgspurge neyther yet to you And yet I wil be ready to subscribe both to them and you if you thinke truely And y◠I offer nothing to you of mine own head these my brethrē that be present can witnesse Which when he sayd he turned his body towardes the reste of the Cardinals and Bishops Which neither graunted to his saying by word or gesture nor greatly withstode it Therfore for asmuche as they woulde not subscribe we sayd they coulde not require it of vs. This done and appeased the Cardinall entred into talke of the Lordes Supper and set his common doctors to vs. Master Spensa began to vrge the presence of the body of Christ in his Supper so that he enclosed the body within the bread And said it culd no otherwise be imagined but the body must nedes be ioyned with the bread and reproued vs as though we swarued from our master Caluine whose boke he had alleaged We sayd we differred frō hym in nothing and that we were ready to subscribe to all the contentes of that boke Then he vrged the name of substaunce whiche Caluine ◅seth We answered that we wont ◅o vse that terme least men should thinke that we fain either some new or ymaginary body or some phantastical receiuing therof but neuerthelesse that we are no otherwise made partakers of y◠body than by sayth and power of the holy ghost Hereto the right
the matter was not likely to passe as they wished Wherefore thoughe all oure demaundes were not graunted yet neuerthelesse bicause the aunswere of the Queene was tollerable we thoughte it good to take the occasion leaste we myghte seeme to detracte the conference The next day therefore whiche was the nynth of September we came to Poyssye to the cloyster of Nunnes where the king was with his brother the Duke of Orleaunce the Quene the king Queene of Nauarre and the rest of the nobles with the whole councel there were present also the Cardinalls and Bishops accompaynyed with a great number of ecclesiast call persons We ministers to the number of xii and .xx. of those whom other churches had sente came in afore them But least the people of the towne shoulde make any riot vpon vs the kinges garde brought vs from our lodginges to the Nunnery Assoone as we came to the kinges presence and wer commaunded to speake Theodore Beza which by the vniuersal cōsent was appoynted therto made an oratyon in the which thankyng God and the Kynge that nowe at the last our cause shuld he heard he shewed the causes for the which we had bin lōg before expelled and vniustly condēned Furthermore in what articles we agreed with our aduersaries in what others and how we did differ And what was the meane to appease all troubles and reforme religion Then in fewe wordes he shewed the doctrine of oure fayth and Sacramentes and bryefelye touched the chiefe errours that haue crept into religion whiche whyles he handeled grauely moderatly and wyth synguler eloquence he was heard very diligently of al men except when he treated of the presence of the body of Christ in his supper For when he shewed how we are made partakers of hym in hys Supper and taught thesame to be done by the power of the holy ghost which conioyneth knitteth thinges most farre distance in nature and that Christ could no otherwyse be receiued than by fayth and that he nedeth not to descende from heauen that we may communicate of hys body and that he is not enclosed in the bread but remayneth in heauen till he shall come to iudge the world or rather that as to that corporall presence he is as far absent from the bread as the hyest heauē is distant from the lowest earth these thinges I say Whiles he handeled sodenly the Bishops begā opēly to grudge and murmure Crying that he spake shameful blasphemy Some hissed some rose as though they would depart And the Cardinall of Turon opēly desired that either he might be licenced to depart or we put to silēce They wer sory that afore they could get no occasion to interrupte our oration And therfore it pricked them at the heartes that we were so attentiuely heard Neither is it to be doubted but ether they would haue departed or els violently haue runn vpon vs vnlesse the very presēce and authority of the king had represt their fury Silence commaunded a new Beza gently desired them that they woulde quietly heare what remained So it myghte happen that the matter ended they themselues mighte be satisfied So he had licence to conclude And not onely to declare the resydue of those thinges that pertayne to the fuller declaratyon of Chrystes presence in his supper but also all such thinges as concerne the Ecclesiasticall disciplyne and the dutye and authoritye of officers This oratyon ended the Cardinall of Turon perced with anger tremblyng and freating counsayled the king to geue no credite to our wordes nor swarue from the religion of his auncesters Wherein that he mighte obtaine his desire he prayed the gloryous virgine Marye and the blessed Saintes Then he desired to haue a copy of our oration and a daye appointed to aunswere it Saying that he hoped that oure argumentes and reasons shoulde bee so fully satisfied that if any parte thereof stucke in the kinges minde it shoulde thereby easely be rooted oute The Bishoppes tooke aduysemente with the deuines and Canonistes howe they mighte aunswere oure oration But then the Cardinall of Lorayne braste out into these wordes Would to God that eyther he had ben dumme or we deaffe The matter long weyed emōges them they concluded not to aunswere all the poyntes of our oration either bicause they would not or could not but .ii. only First that whiche we sayde of the Churche and then that which was spoken of the Lordes Supper Afterwards they desired that they might geue vp a common confessiō in wryting subscribed by euery of them Which if the ministers would not allow they myghte then procede with a solemne decree against them And so take away the disputation From the whych polecy the wysest and grauest men abhorring sharpely withstode their purpose In the meane tyme we determined to make supplication to the kyng that he woulde not suffer the conference thus to be broken of nor the Bishops to be iudges in their own cause Saying that we had not yet shewed the proofes of oure opynion but onely symplye and playnly hadde drawen the articles of oure fayth which afterwardes myght bee more largely handeled and proued with the testimonies of the Scripture if he did suffer the Bishops to proocede so at theyr owne wyll and decree their own cause it woulde come to passe that both he should be deceiued of hys good expectatiō and also no remedy hereafter founde for suche troubles as do dayly growe This supplication was geuen to the Chancelor who by his prudence prouided that the conference was not broken of and that the Bishops kept farre more moderate and quiet order than they had done before The eight day after which was the xvi of thesame moneth the Cardinal of Loraine answered our oratiō and protesting afore that he and his would alwayes submit themselues to the kinges rule and would be ready to obeye hys commaundement in al pointes yet neuerthelesse reserued place for theyr wonted immunitie and fredom wherby they are wont to quite themselues from all subiection and chalenge the chiefe authoritie And that he did so suttelly that he scarcely semed to touche that sore And pretending a coloure of concorde he protested that he would gladly receiue vs which had swarued from him if we would returne humble our selues to them To conclude that they would be as fathers towards vs. If we would shew our selues as children towardes them These such other like afore promised he sayd he would aunswere onely to the Articles of our oration Whereof the one concerned the Church the other the Lordes Supper He ymagined that we had so defyned y◠Church as though the name thereof had extended no farther thā to the elect and therfore largely reasoned agaynste it shewing out of the common similitudes of the gospel in the whiche it is cōpared to a plat of grounde and to a fyshers net that the name therof extended euen to ill and reprobate persons But he gaue it a meruaylous definitiō Saying that the Catholike
succession therof is of no small force to wynne it authoritye amonges menne As to the succession of persones we admitte it but so that it be conioyned wyth the succession of the Propheticall and Apostolyke doctryne in substance and the chiefe poyntes and groundes atleaste But we speake of the doctryne it selfe not of theyr maners For albeit it be required of true and faithfull pastours that in doctryne and lyfe they be sounde and pure yet for the ignoraunce of some thynges or for the diuersitie of opinions in doctrine so that it stretch not to the substaunce of our saluation or though ther life be not of the perfectest yet for these thynges we doe not reiect them but beare them So they kepe the grounde and foundation And that we ought so to doe Christ teacheth vs saying that whē the Scribes and Pharises sitting in Moyses chayre teache vs we oughte to folowe their doctryne and not their deedes Mat. xxiii a. ii iii. Whiche place Austine writing vppon Iohn sayeth ought to be vnderstande of suche hyerlyng pastours as keepe the sounde doctrine but not of false Prophetes of whom Christ contrarywyse sayde August tracta xlvi Beware of the leauen of the Pharisees Mat. xvi a. vi vi xi Whyle they sitte sayeth Austine in the chayre of Moyses they teache the lawe of God and so god teacheth by them But yf they teache theyr owne doctryne neyther heare theyr woordes neyther folowe their deedes That also the same author expresseth more at large in hys xlix Sermon of the woordes of the Lorde Forasmuche as therefore false Prophetes and wolues maye succede to true and faythfull pastours we dooe not onelye not admitte personall succession but euen condemne it vnlesse the successiō of doctrine be ioyned with all because it is a meete cloke for anye lye or errour Furthermore if personal succession of it self shoulde be taken for a certayn mark of the church ther ought to haue ben som promis of god shewed wherby he hath limited his grace to any certayn sea or countrey Whiche in the new Testament we shal not find In deede he promised that the churche shoulde be Catholike that is to were vniuersall whiche is so called for that the particuler members thereof are here and there dispersed throughoute the whole worlde Whersoeuer it pleaseth god to shewe his iudgementes eyther vpon those whō he vtterly cutteth of or whom he chasteneth for a tyme or in shewyng mercy to them whō he furthereth better and better or whom he calleth to his knowledge and saluation For in some places the Lord iustly reuenging himself so destroyeth the churche that he seemeth euen to roote it oute and not to leaue so muche as any signe therof as it hapned amonges the barbarous nations and in the most part of all the Easte Otherwhere as in Greece and other realmes more nie to vs he hath lefte some tokens of the churche Agayne sometyme the Lorde dothe cut and breake of onely the personall succession of pastours as it hapned at Antioche in the time of Samosatenus and at Alexandria after the banishment of Athanasius and in many other churches And that we neede to seeke no further the personall succession then at the least fayled in the Romaine churche when Honorius being bishop was condemned for the detestable heresie of the Eutichians And so likewise in the time of Iohn the. xxii of that name who was also cōdemned for heresie Vnlesse perhaps some man wyll mayntayne that those that are manifestly condemned of heresye be pastours Furthermore in what case this succession stoode vnder Iohn the shee Pope through the scismes and cōtentions of diuerse striuyng for the Popes sea the histories sufficientlye witnesse Wherfore we conclude that not respectyng the personall succession of pastours we must alwayes haue regarde to the purenesse of doctrine and the sincere administratiō of sacramēts so that they onely be to be counted successours of the Apostles whiche beyng lawfully called doe buylde vpon theyr foundation Whether they deriue their succession from them or whether thesame haue fayled And contrarywyse they that neyther buylde nor teache or preache theyr owne doctrine in stede of the Apostles although they were able to shewe neuer so many and continuall presidentes of their predecessors are not to be taken for pastours but to be shūned as wolues as Christ and his Apostles teach Some manne parhappes will obiecte Is it therfore lawfull for any man to teache and mynyster the Sacramentes no. For it behoueth as the Apostle sayeth that al thinges bee done in the house of God ryghtly and orderly i. Corint xiiii g. xi Who then shall bee taken for true pastours they whiche are lawfully called It remayneth then that we vnderstande what is a lawfull callyng And here I must craue attention For we saye that some callyng is ordynarye and some extraordinarye Ordinarye is it in the whiche is obserued the order appoynted by GOD in hys churche In that order these three thinges are chiefly requyred Firste the examination of his doctrine and lyfe that shal be ordayned thē a lawfull choyse and election And lastlye the laying of handes And these we all gathered out of diuers places of the scripture As oute of the Actes of the Apostles and the writinges of Paule to Timothe and Titus Ac. i. d. xii Ioh. vi a. vi i. Tim. ii a. ii et iii. d. xxii Titus i. a. vi This therefore is the ordinarye callyng Whereby we may well discerne whiche is it that we call extraordinarye Namely it that wāteth som one or other or al these cōditions and yet the same grounded vppon the authoritie of God and lawfull That god vsed suche extraordinary callyngs it plainly appeareth throughout the whole scripture For who laid handes vpon Moyses that he myght consecrate Aaron Who gaue the gyfte of Prophecye to Esay Danyeil Amos and the rest Exodus xxviii Esa vi b. xciii Dani. i. c. ◅vii Amos. vii xiiii Yea was not this geuen them when they that ordinarilye had the charge thereof abused it For then it was necessarye that god shoulde put to his hande extraordinarilye not to trouble or confounde the order of hys churche but to correcte them whiche vnder the pretence of ordinary succession dissordred all This well proue the writyngs of the Prophets which most of al pertain to y◠orders of the priestes Ps xxviii vi vii Iere. vii a. iiii et xxiii a. xi Ezec. xxii e. xxvi Soph. iii. a. iiii But if it be obiected that suche men gaue some certayntye of their vocation as either some miracle or some heauenly signe I graunt the same to be true in some but not in all Neither can any mā say otherwise vnlesse he wil plainly denye the truth Neither do Iwel know whether we shall find many prophetes of the stocke of Aaron or vpon whom after the ordinary maner hands were layde But yf any man will take this exceptiō that those prophets vsed only to rebuke
vice and wēt no farther but abstained frō sacrifice I aūswer that that is not true in all For Samuel which was not of the stock of Aarō sacrificed in Mispa And Elias of Galaad in y◠mount Carmelus i. Samu. vii c. ix i. Regum xviii f. xxvi Then is it not to be maruelled that the prophets of that time woulde extend theyr office so far as to circumcise sacrifice whereas that by enheritaunce appertayned onely to the tribe of Leuy But suche enheritaunce at this daye hath no place thus you see what we call the church what we think of her markes and of the callyng of pastours in her Which yf you please to applye to oure Churches or to oure selues we hope that by the helpe of god we shall shewe such profe and witnesse therof out of the holy scriptures as no man shall haue any occasion to doute thereof And that both according to the worde of god also to the writings of that godly man Austyne at the least in that treatyse which is reckned among his workes and intitled of 65. question the last question Now let vs speake of the authoritye of the churche By that which we haue alreadye spoken it appeareth that we derogate frō her none of those hye precious titles that the holy ghost doth geue her but say that she is the bodye of our lorde obtayning the same here only in part til such time as ioyned to her head she shall fullye and perfectly enioye the same Heb. xi c. xv i. Co. i. a. vii i Cor. xiiii vi v. Ep. iiii c. xv She is the house of god but suche as is daylye put of and increased She is ruled by the spirite of god but as yet she stri◅eth agaynst the flesh Gala. v. c. xvii She is clensed washed but so that by litle and litle she shal be brought to that perfect beautye in the which ther shal be no spott no wrinkle Ep. v. f. 25 i Co. 3. c. 4 She knowes god but only in part And in these our maners of speache we wish the Apostles wordes to be weyghed to conclude we graunt that there is no saluation without the church For ther is no saluation but in Christ Iesus i. Ihon. v. c. xi Iohn iii. c. xviii And Christ dothe no where extende his saluation but in those members whose congregation and communion is called the churche but it is doubted whether she maye erre in this worlde whether we bee subiecte to the scripture or els her authoritie excede thesame We aunswere that her seuerall members maye erre and dayly fall and fayle as well in doctrine as in lyfe accordyng to the saying of Paule In parte we knowe i. Cor. xiii c. ix Also Iohn saieth If we saye that we haue no sinne we deceue our selues and there is no truthe in vs. i. Iohn i. d. viii Wherfore if any man will goe aboute to excepte the doctours from this number lette him pardon vs that we beleue him not For we coulde easily shewe many authorityes wherein do appeare the manifest errours of the best learned moste auncient doctours Be it spoken wyth their leaue and fauour whom as well for their singuler learnyng as also for their passing pitie we doe muche reuerence Neither truely my L. Cardinal if I wel vnderstoode him doth admy◅ thē without iudgement This therfore is our opinion of y◠mēbers of y◠church seuerally whose inperfection is not so material but that the church may cōsist of thē For by litle litle they daily profit encrease aswel in amending of their liues as encreasīg their learning But now cōsidering y◠parts of the Churche more generally as deuiding it into seueral diocesses prouinces shal we say that they may erre That they bothe may erre also haue erred my L. Cardinal if Iwel remēber hath alredy graūted And the same is also cōfirmed with so great long experience that no wise man maie wel doubt therof It remaineth therefore to consider the whole vnyuersall churche But first we must see in what sort For if we consider it as it is represented by som general counsel assuredly we must not thinke that the whole power that the holy gost extēdeth to that church is restrained to any certain nūber of bishops which oftētimes are neither the best learned nor best liuers For howe oft hapneth it y◠some one priuate man passeth the best lerned yea somtimes the whole coūsel in wit knowledge For this cause lōg since it hath bine writen that better credyte is to be geuen to any pryuate mā groūding a better reason thā either to any coūcelor or pope glo in ca. significasti de elect i ibi pauo And hereof their is a notable example in the councell of nyce For what stayed that the prohibition of mariage Which hath bred so much filthynes in that church had not then bine stablished decreed only paphumtius as the history recordes with stode it Or what conuocation of any generall councel hitherto hath bene so larg but that a greate number of holye and learned men yea of the worthyest bishops hath bene ouerpassed therin And who will affirme that nothing more is reueled to those that are absente than to those that are present at the coūcell Furthermore you are not ignorante what horrible confusiō ther hath bene and is at this present in the church and chiefly amonges those that sitt in hyest comes So that the Church of god euen there wher it should be most pure and perfect doth appeare most confuse and desolate And long time hath this wretched case continued there yet remaine so many greuous leude complaintes of good bishops on the same that the soūde of thē semeth euē now presētli to pea◅re ◅yne eares What in his time Be◅a had wrote in his bokes de consideratione et sermone 33 ch ▪ vppon the Lan◅a Lan◅corum ▪ also in hys sermō of the cōuersiō of Paul it is no lesse cōmon than true Alas alas o lord god they are chefe in perse◅īg that ▪ which seme to be chefest in thy church to beare the greatest rule therein They haue take the castell of Sion they haue wonne y◠m◅nicions now frely by cōmaundemente they ◅ōsume with fyer the whole citye ▪ These things we speake not in reproch of any ◅ā but to shew that for as much as that chef callīg in the church are cōfounded gone astray it can not be proued that ◅ vn◅uersal coūsels which haue bin assēbled many times of a multitude of mē most vnfit therfore are so guided with y◠grace of y◠holi gost that they may not erre The old priest of whom I would make no mētion but y◠his example is cōmonly aledged for that profe hereof although he were vitious wicked did prophēcye ◅◅r◅tel that it was necessari that on mā shuld die for y◠people least the whole nation
Sacramentes And we againe aske of hym by whom he was chosen and institute Whether by the voices of the elders of his church whether he were desyred of the people whether there wer any inquisitiō made of his life doctrine He woulde soone say yea But he wuld soone be proued alter Whereof we desier no other witnes thā their own cōsciece which heare vs know that whole matter perfectly If he would obsect against vs that we are no ministers because we wante the laying on of hands we would reply again that he is no bishop because in institutions of hym those things wer not obserued which are appointed for the chief substantiall poyutes by the law of god And when our talke wer more whether perhappes we would goe farther and say in this sort You boaste of the laying on of handes which whosoeuer lacketh you thynk no perfect minister what if you wante the two other points which are the chiefest Namely inquisition of lyfe learning the election of the elders of your church may ye not then much lesse thā we bragge of the name of a pastor It was decreed by the councel of Chalcedon that the ordynation of the bishop or prtest shoulde bee frustrate of no force which is not specially appointed to some one churche And forasmuche as they would haue it doyde to the iniury of hym that ordayneth it much more may we obiect thesame agaynst the bishop that thus reasoneth with vs inasmuch he is destitute of the two chiefest conditions prescribed by the apostle i. Tim. iii a. Titus i Another thyng also may bee added hereto which we speak vnwilling neuerthelesse we are enforced therto the euery man maye perceiue that this disputation of our vocation may not be touched with out great peril If we should ask of that same bishop who layde their hādes on him or whether he bought it not with money what would he aunswer He would deny that he bought it and he would say that those bishops layd hāds on him which had autority therto of the church Again if we should enquire how much his authoritie cost hym he would say he bought it not but yet he woulde confesse that he gaue some thousandes of crownes As though he shoulde saye I boughte not the bread but the corne wher with the bread was made This reasonyng if it should be parted by the autority of the coūcels canōs of the churches woulde shame a greate many byshops pastours And sure we would not enter therein least any man should be offēded therby Neyther wyll we yet touche it or sek◅ to reuenge oure selues only we mynde to shew y◠we dyd of late purposely answere shortly briefly to those thyngs y◠wer layd agaynst vs for that we woulde haue all gently and myldly handled But as for the Lords supper we spake more sparely therof bearyng with the infirmitte of some whiche not accustomed to that doctrine are wont to be offended assoone as they heare anye thing y◠is strange or vnwōted to thē And truly we had rather that thei thēselues shuld learne thesame out of the aunciēt writings of the Doctors of the church th◅ by vs which we hoped should haue com to passe if my lord Cardinal had kepte his promisse For he promised opēly to instruct vs chiefly in this article of the lords supper out of their writings whiche wrote therof with in .v. C. yeres after Christ so that we would now agree to receyue the light if it appered that thesame was hitherto hiddē frō vs. To satisfye this our expectatiō or rather the expectatiō of an infinite nūber of mē he seperated this article frō others verye necessary gaue it to vs alone And required vs to subscribe to it saying y◠otherwise the conference would be brokē of yf we should plead our cause in prison you woulde scarce vse suche talke towardes vs as to saye subscribe hereto or els we condemne you Certainly this is no part of your charge For that office which ye now professe requyreth y◠if we walk in error you should reduce vs beyng once cōuict therof into the way and exhort vs with wholesom doctrine And chiefly those which offer thēselues to yelde an accompt of theyr fayth by the scriptures And truly if thys kinde of condemnation be straunge certainly muche more straunge is the way and meanes wherby you procede to yesame We came together here chieflye for .ii. causes First to render an accompte to god to you to the whole worlde of oure fayth Not to trauel for gods cause the kings the whole kingdom to fynde some way and meanes wherby the troubles late stirred in religion may be appeased Now if we bee reiected or dysmissed wtout leaue or liberty to dispute whatsoeuer shal be done vnto vs shal be declared to all Christendome the olde tumultes shal be nothyng appeased as thei know right wel which go about to preuēt it If the matter did only belōg to vs that are here present truly at your plesure with out peril as farre as mā may iudge you might dayly with vs. But you must cōsider that we stand here in the name of al those that professe the gospel not onely in this realme but euen in Swicerlād Poole Germany England and Scotland whiche all looke for som certayne happy end of this assēbly What may they thinke when in stede of disputatiō conference which was promised vs they shall vnderstande that the tenth part of one article was offred to vs wyth this addition Subscribe to this or els go no further And yf we doe subscrybe what shall you be the better They that sente vs wyll desyre to knowe whether we were compelled therto by force or els conuict by good sure argumente So what els shall happen of this order which you now begin to take thā gret offence and grudge wee beseche the Queene therfore that she wyll not suffer this holy purpose to be brokē of but cōmaund that certain learned mete men be chosen out that will wyllynglye conferrs with vs. Neuerthelesse least we should seme to answer nothyng to those thynges that haue ben obiected agaynst vs whatsoeuer M. Spēsa gaue vs writen out of Caluins booke we receyue allowe But as to the article whyche my Lord Cardinal offred vs take or rather gelded out of the cōfessiō of Awgspurge we say there are many thynges therin to be considred First that the whole confession should haue ben offred vnto vs. For it is agaynst reason to proffer vs one article without the reste Then we woulde knowe whether of theyr owne heads priuately whiche we are lothe to think neuerthelesse we woulde gladlye knowe the truth therof or elles in the name of all the Lords they offer vs the confusion of Augspurge that al doutes taken away we may more freely conferre For so it would come to passe the thanks shuld generally be geuē to god for y◠my
yet we counted it better to for beare than to be counted lyke to suche trouble some talkers At this alteration the Cardynall stepped in and as though this question had ben sufficiently debated made an end therof Or rather wheÌ„ he coulde no longer beare the proud insoleÌ„t talke of XaÌ„tus he brake of his talk Hereof neuerthelesse the Sorhonists as if the mater had ben coÌ„cluded or seÌ„tence geuen on theyr side w e vain arrogaÌ„ce peâ—…waded theÌ„selues that they had won the victorye Neither is it any marueyle for neither could we answer many of theyr reasoÌ„s which they spake all at once so that we could not vnderstand theÌ„ nether would we interrupt the Cardinal in his talke But he taking on him the part of a iudge dyd closelye conclude that whatsoeuer is written ought to be referred to the authoritie of the charch that her tradytions wer in all pointes to be obserued Afterwardes he turned his talke to the Lordes supper affirming protestyng that he woulde goe no farther tyll we agreed of that article For this sayd he is the controuersye that troubles most men And sayd further that we had necessarily coÌ„pelled him to talke therof For yâ— in our fyrst metyng we had plainlye fhewed our mynde therof which nowe filled al Fraunce with diuers daungerous rumour and farther was imprinted and sette abrode He obiected vnto vs the confession of Awgspurge asked whether we wold subscribe ther to We asked agayne whether they woulde bee contente to allowe it in all pointes then they beganne to trifle Furthermore they obiected other opinioÌ„s of certain ministers of the Germans which they said wer seÌ„t vnto theÌ„ neither wer they ashamed to desyre intreate vs to subscribe vnto theÌ„ But that was done for a pollicy to thintente that if we denied so to do he might set vs at strife with the Germans and make vs to be hated of them And if we did agre then they as conquerours shoulde tryumph ouer vs and make a commoÌ„ iest of vs as of light and vndiscrete persoÌ„s and so coÌ„demne our opinion To auoid this doubt we answered that we came thither to defende the confession of oure faith and had no other commauÌ„demeÌ„t or authoritie of our churches â–ª Therfore we required that we might folowe the order of our confession and that euerye article might be seuerally and distinctly weyed so that it mighte plainlye appeare wherein we agree and wherein we disagree For bothe the order of nature and also the waye to concorde requireth that those thinges whiche be playnest and easiest should first be haÌ„dled â–ª Furthermore forasmuch as the sacramentes depend vpon the doctrine It is most necessary first to reason of it With al this we nothing preuailed For the Cardinal continued in his purpose We saw also that he attempted this that we with inequall hande might departe the conferre that yesame might seeme to be broken of by our stubbornesse Which we thought good by al meanes to preueÌ„t Therfore we desired to haue their writing to the which they would haue vs subscribe that we might deliberate therof Ther with all they brought forth a copie of the article of the lordes supper takeÌ„ as they said out of the confession of Awgspurge But differing neuerthe lesse much therfrom as it may wel appeare by the reading thereof For this it was with a stedfast faith we coÌ„fesse that in the most reuerend sacrament of the Lordes body and bloud truly really and sacramentally the true bodye bloude of Christ is offred to the coÌ„municantes and receiued by them Herto they added the confession of certayne ministers of Wittenberge set forth 〈…〉 the yere of our of our lord god 1559. So we departed for that day and the matter was deferred till the morowe Wherfore when we perceiued that by this requeste they minded to driue vs to this inconuentence that eyther we should denie our own confession or els breake of the conference returnyng at the last and calling on the name of god we determined rather to take the most vnequall and bniust conditions that could be offred than to geue any occasyon wherby it might seme that we fled the conference Therfore the nexte day we prepared our selues to aunswere waytyng alwayes when we should be commaunded to come when it was sygnyfyed to vs from the Queene that thesame was deferred for twoo dayes In the meane tyme diuers tales were spred of vs as that we were ouercome and could not proue our ministery lawfully and our aduersaries reioyced as conquerors as though our hearts fainted to be short thei criuÌ„phed afore the victory But this theyr myrth coÌ„tinued not loÌ„g For ii daies after at oure returne we brought forth an aÌ„swer more at large more perfect to those things which afore wer ouer passed vsed such meanes as we could to auoid the pollicy of oure aduersaries It Beza rehersed in wrytig The effect of it was this That we greatly maruelled yâ— wheras of late we had so aboundantly shewed what is the church what be her marks how great her autority that any reasonable manne might be satisfied ther wt. Yet neuer the lesse nothing was saide against it but onely demaunded of vs by what power we do administer the worde of GOD sacrameÌ„ts And yet nothing ouerpassed yâ— might make our cause odious hateful For to what purpose it was spoken we could not as yet wel perceue bicause we came not thither to administer the word or sacraments But if an accompt shal be demauÌ„ded of vs of those thinges which her to fore we haue don thei must understaÌ„d the emoÌ„ges vs there are two sorts of ministers One of those that teach in foren couÌ„treys in the which theyr calling is allowed And of those it cannot iustly be demauÌ„ded here wherfore they be ministers Another sort is of theÌ„ whiche teach the gospel in this realm whom we thought not to be seÌ„t for hyther to geue an accompt of their callig but only to coÌ„fer dispute of doctrine Otherwise they might seme to bee sent for to plead their cause as for som crime Which we cannot think that the Queene or nobles in any wise minded And yf the same be required vnder the colour of coÌ„ference reasoning it is verye far froÌ„ the meanes of coÌ„cord reconcilement For we cannot enter into such questions demaundes with out the greate offence of the bishops other the Lords of spiritualtie But none of vs all at anye time minded it but purposed onelye to prosecute this holy purpose I pray you if two parties agree to conferre afterwardes the one demaunde of the other By what nower do you this must it not needes ensue that by suche questions they shal fall at bariance As for example setting a part the bishops and other the spiritualtie of this realm whoÌ„ we are lothe to offende let vs admytte that some straunge byshop enquireth of vs by what authoritye we minister the woorde and