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church_n bishop_n paul_n timothy_n 3,899 5 10.7094 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A20303 A sparing restraint, of many lauishe vntruthes, which M. Doctor Harding do the chalenge, in the first article of my Lorde of Sarisburies replie. By Edward Dering student in Diuinitie. With an answere vnto that long, and vncourteous epistle, entituled to M. Juel, and set before M. Hardings Reioinder Dering, Edward, 1540?-1576. 1568 (1568) STC 6725; ESTC S108150 240,683 364

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continuance_n &_o more_o travail_v in_o the_o world_n yet_o not_o wear_v with_o his_o year_n nor_o wary_v with_o his_o labour_n he_o be_v as_o good_a as_o moses_n 34.7_o his_o eye_n be_v not_o dim_v nor_o his_o natural_a force_n abate_v he_o be_v like_a unto_o caleb_n as_o strong_a now_o as_o when_o his_o moses_n first_o send_v he_o as_o strong_a as_o he_o be_v then_o 14.11_o even_o so_o strong_a be_v he_o now_o for_o war_n or_o government_n a_o companion_n of_o s._n paul_n journey_n who_o praise_n be_v in_o the_o gospel_n throughout_o all_o church_n who_o salute_v the_o collossians_n who_o only_o be_v with_o paul_n at_o rome_n the_o xiii_o year_n of_o the_o reign_n of_o nero_n 4.11_o though_o you_o say_v peter_n be_v then_o bishop_n a_o excellent_a physician_n and_o one_o that_o can_v cure_v the_o very_a hardness_n of_o your_o hart_n if_o you_o care_v not_o for_o his_o commendation_n yet_o regard_v his_o name_n i_o do_v mean_a s._n luke_n the_o holy_a evangelist_n let_v we_o stand_v 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first_o how_o unwares_o he_o speak_v contrary_a to_o himself_o he_o confess_v flat_o that_o this_o negative_a of_o s._n gregory_n wherein_o he_o deni_v any_o aught_o to_o be_v universal_a bishop_n be_v in_o defence_n of_o the_o truth_n yet_o master_n harding_n in_o the_o four_o article_n go_v about_o to_o prove_v that_o the_o pope_n be_v universal_a b._n so_o by_o his_o own_o confession_n he_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v a_o lie_n secondare_o he_o confess_v at_o the_o last_o that_o master_n cranmer_n be_v a_o bishop_n and_o master_n juell_n with_o other_o his_o fellow_n be_v bishop_n yet_o at_o other_o time_n he_o and_o his_o fellow_n will_v in_o no_o case_n grant_v it_o three_o he_o say_v no_o b._n of_o sarisburie_n be_v a_o caluinist_n before_o master_n juell_n and_o that_o be_v a_o manifest_a lie_n four_o that_o no_o bishop_n of_o canterbury_n be_v marry_v before_o cranmer_n and_o that_o be_v a_o otherlie_a so_o in_o all_o this_o former_a piece_n either_o he_o speak_v nothing_o but_o 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other_o thing_n abroad_o after_o this_o usual_a invention_n he_o frame_v a_o little_a philosophy_n of_o his_o own_o and_o then_o further_v it_o on_o epicure_n wherewith_o he_o feign_v his_o comparison_n now_o let_v the_o indifferent_a reader_n judge_v which_o of_o these_o be_v the_o waver_a man_n master_n juell_n that_o in_o his_o life_n have_v go_v not_o one_o hour_n back_o or_o master_n harding_n that_o many_o year_n have_v preach_v contrary_a doctrine_n doubtless_o have_v he_o live_v in_o severus_n time_n notwithstanding_o this_o long_a apology_n 13._o his_o armour_n shall_v have_v be_v pull_v off_o and_o he_o leave_v naked_a in_o token_n of_o a_o apostata_fw-la and_o his_o adversary_n commend_v that_o in_o all_o his_o life_n have_v be_v find_v so_o constant_a harding_n ¶_o what_o fault_n so_o ever_o you_o find_v with_o my_o change_n certain_a it_o be_v all_o chaung_n be_v not_o reprovable_a he_o change_v well_o that_o change_v from_o evil_a to_o good_a it_o be_v a_o happy_a 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deni_v that_o council_n to_o be_v general_a because_o there_o be_v not_o gather_v together_o i_o know_v not_o how_o many_o bishop_n out_o of_o christendom_n but_o if_o m._n harding_n have_v mark_v it_o better_o he_o shall_v have_v know_v it_o well_o enough_o that_o general_n may_v be_v apply_v only_o to_o those_o twelve_o which_o he_o saithe_v be_v there_o gather_v together_o if_o they_o do_v all_o well_o agree_v sure_o that_o council_n be_v more_o general_a than_o their_o chapter_n of_o trident._n if_o he_o will_v force_v the_o word_n ecumenical_a there_o be_v no_o counsel_n that_o ever_o be_v so_o general_a if_o he_o will_v any_o thing_n restrain_v it_o why_o may_v he_o not_o bring_v it_o down_o yea_o even_o to_o twelve_o this_o untruthe_n be_v but_o a_o cavil_v and_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v yet_o be_v m._n harding_n never_o the_o near_o his_o private_a mass_n but_o because_o he_o say_v so_o constant_o that_o that_o counsel_n be_v but_o of_o twelve_o bishop_n in_o spain_n as_o peter_n 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well_o good_a reader_n and_o for_o m._n harding_n pleasure_n look_v again_o do_v he_o not_o say_v it_o be_v not_o bread_n how_o be_v this_o then_o untrue_a now_o must_v i_o desire_v thou_o again_o to_o look_v diligent_o and_o if_o thou_o mark_v well_o thou_o shall_v now_o hear_v of_o such_o a_o distinction_n as_o in_o all_o this_o book_n of_o distinction_n there_o be_v none_o such_o i_o say_v saithe_n master_n harding_n 163._o it_o be_v not_o bread_n i_o say_v not_o it_o be_v no_o bread_n there_o be_v great_a difference_n between_o not_o bread_n and_o no_o bread_n sure_o if_o thou_o look_v not_o marvelous_a narow_o thou_o will_v never_o understand_v this_o distinction_n for_o my_o part_n i_o will_v sure_o have_v say_v it_o that_o which_o be_v not_o bread_n have_v be_v no_o bread_n and_o that_o which_o be_v no_o bread_n have_v sure_o be_v not_o bread_n and_o if_o it_o be_v not_o bread_n it_o can_v not_o be_v any_o bread_n and_o if_o it_o be_v some_o bread_n then_o be_v it_o not_o no_o bread_n but_o let_v not_o bread_n be_v some_o bread_n and_o no_o bread_n be_v not_o bread_n and_o nothing_o be_v not_o any_o thing_n and_o not_o any_o thing_n be_v some_o thing_n as_o touch_v master_n juell_n that_o good_a simple_a bishop_n i_o dare_v swear_v for_o he_o he_o never_o know_v of_o this_o distinction_n and_o so_o he_o be_v wrongful_o charge_v with_o this_o untruthe_n yet_o lest_o master_n harding_n shall_v please_v himself_o too_o well_o i_o must_v forewarn_v he_o that_o i_o can_v not_o allow_v well_o of_o this_o distinction_n if_o he_o be_v well_o advise_v this_o be_v a_o logic_n rule_v aientia_fw-la &_o negantia_fw-la acerrime_fw-la inter_fw-la se_fw-la pugnant_fw-la no_o thing_n be_v so_o contrary_a as_o the_o affirm_v and_o denial_n of_o the_o same_o thing_n but_o panis_fw-la non_fw-la panis_fw-la bread_n not_o bread_n be_v contradictory_n not_o panis_fw-la nullus_fw-la panis_fw-la bread_n no_o bread_n therefore_o master_v harding_n say_v that_o no_o bread_n do_v signify_v more_o than_o not_o bread_n may_v seem_v to_o have_v no_o logic_n and_o to_o speak_v not_o very_o wise_o and_o sure_o i_o muse_v how_o he_o can_v be_v overséene_a in_o this_o consider_v the_o substance_n of_o it_o be_v in_o supposition_n about_o which_o his_o friend_n have_v waste_v many_o good_a hour_n if_o he_o have_v forget_v their_o doctrine_n let_v he_o remember_v the_o verse_n particular_a prius_fw-la facit_fw-la o_fw-la generale_fw-mi secundum_fw-la but_o it_o may_v be_v that_o master_n harding_n and_o his_o friend_n as_o they_o have_v strange_a devise_n so_o they_o go_v about_o to_o make_v new_a logic_n no_o doubt_n they_o be_v at_o some_o conspiracy_n for_o master_n nicholas_n saunders_n who_o his_o friend_n think_v some_o body_n make_v this_o very_a distinction_n in_o his_o four_o book_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o with_o this_o common_a conceit_n of_o not_o bread_n and_o no_o bread_n will_v fain_o have_v a_o untruthe_n against_o master_n juell_n and_o be_v it_o possible_a that_o these_o man_n shall_v agree_v in_o so_o great_a a_o folye_a if_o they_o lay_v not_o their_o head_n together_o well_o god_n be_v thank_v their_o general_a counsel_n conclude_v very_o unwise_o now_o rest_v this_o other_o untruthe_n about_o tertullia_n word_n which_o as_o master_n harding_n say_v be_v falsify_v because_o bread_n be_v not_o in_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o the_o sentence_n as_o master_v juell_n do_v allege_v they_o tertullia_n word_n be_v these_o uxor_fw-la non_fw-la sciet_fw-la maritus_fw-la quid_fw-la secreto_fw-la ante_fw-la omnes_fw-la cibum_fw-la gust_n &_o si_fw-la scierit_fw-la panem_fw-la non_fw-la illum_fw-la credet_fw-la esse_fw-la qui_fw-la dicitur_fw-la here_o saithe_v master_n harding_n illum_fw-la must_v not_o be_v refer_v to_o panem_fw-la and_o thereupon_o he_o quote_v his_o untruthe_n even_o as_o he_o do_v before_o for_o want_v of_o logic_n so_o it_o may_v be_v think_v he_o do_v here_o through_o want_n of_o latin_a illu_z say_v he_o be_v not_o refer_v to_o panem_fw-la and_o yet_o the_o grammarian_n say_v the_o adiective_n must_v be_v always_o refer_v to_o a_o substantive_a except_o it_o be_v put_v substantive_o in_o the_o neutre_fw-fr gender_n now_o if_o master_n harding_n can_v not_o make_v illum_fw-la the_o neuter_n gender_n nor_o yet_o find_v any_o other_o substantive_a in_o the_o sentence_n than_o panem_fw-la than_o his_o grammar_n have_v as_o evil_a hap_n as_o his_o logic_n and_o this_o be_v no_o untruthe_n the_o b._n of_o saris._n the_o translate_n illum_fw-la he_o mean_v that_o it_o be_v the_o very_a person_n of_o a_o man_n which_o the_o woman_n have_v in_o her_o hand_n harding_n the_o .118_o untruthe_n it_o be_v the_o person_n of_o christ_n god_n and_o man_n dering_n what_o mean_v m._n harding_n to_o wrangle_v when_o m._n jewel_n saithe_v he_o mean_v the_o person_n of_o a_o man_n to_o be_v in_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n can_n m._n harding_n understand_v it_o of_o a_o mortal_a man_n or_o be_v the_o controversy_n between_o we_o whether_o in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v any_o earthly_a man_n body_n if_o m._n harding_n will_v have_v let_v escape_v this_o untruthe_n no_o man_n will_v have_v gather_v this_o absurd_a sense_n of_o m._n juel_n say_v and_o yet_o if_o we_o will_v examine_v it_o what_o manner_n of_o untruth_n be_v this_o where_o it_o be_v say_v it_o be_v a_o man_n body_n to_o note_v it_o as_o untrue_a and_o say_v it_o be_v christ_n body_n both_o god_n and_o man_n if_o it_o be_v so_o yet_o be_v it_o a_o man_n body_n unless_o we_o deny_v our_o saviour_n christ_n to_o be_v perfect_a man_n such_o untruth_n be_v soon_o answer_v the_o b._n of_o saris._n the_o story_n that_o s._n cyprian_n report_v as_o it_o show_v the_o manner_n of_o keep_v the_o sacrament_n so_o it_o seem_v also_o to_o show_v that_o
of_o heaven_n gate_n vrbanus_n say_v that_o the_o sentence_n of_o a_o bishop_n be_v great_o to_o be_v fear_v yea_o though_o he_o 〈◊〉_d wrongful_o and_o so_o consequent_o will_v mak●_n god_n a_o unrighteous_a judge_n that_o shall_v ratify_v a_o unjust_a sentence_n such_o wicked_a doctrine_n these_o epistle_n do_v contain_v so_o unlearned_o they_o be_v write_v so_o unwise_o the_o same_o word_n be_v father_v upon_o diverse_a man_n and_o which_o be_v a_o sure_a token_n that_o they_o be_v counterfeit_v they_o be_v not_o mention_v by_o any_o ancient_a writer_n yet_o say_v master_n harding_n these_o epistle_n be_v authentical_a but_o let_v he_o say_v so_o still_o rom._n as_o that_o say_n be_v untrue_a so_o this_o untruthe_n be_v impudent_a where_o he_o say_v that_o gracian_a do_v not_o witness_n that_o these_o epistle_n have_v be_v doubt_v on_o the_o b._n of_o saris._n the_o decretal_a epistle_n manifest_o deprave_v and_o abuse_v the_o scripture_n harding_n the_o .140_o untruthe_n they_o do_v not_o so_o dering_n now_o m._n harding_n be_v in_o his_o bias_n he_o make_v untruth_n at_o aventure_n and_o for_o want_v of_o good_a proof_n he_o fall_v to_o rail_n this_o pelf_n say_v he_o may_v serve_v for_o your_o pulpit_n when_o you_o want_v better_a stuff_n this_o to_o disprove_v y_z e_o decretal_a epistle_n be_v to_o minister_v like_a but_o thus_o to_o stand_v rail_v when_o one_o have_v no_o reason_n be_v to_o like_v a_o lovanist_n more_o modest_a behaviour_n in_o so_o mean_a learning_n will_v better_o stand_v with_o honesty_n this_o untruth_n be_v sufficient_o prove_v before_o the_o b._n of_o saris._n anacletus_fw-la command_v that_o all_o bishop_n once_o in_o the_o year_n do_v visit_v the_o entry_n of_o s._n peter_n church_n in_o rome_n which_o they_o call_v limina_fw-la petri._n harding_n the_o .141_o untruth_n he_o command_v no_o such_o thing_n concern_v peter_n church_n dering_n this_o untruth_n do_v rise_v upon_o these_o word_n limina_fw-la petri_n whether_o they_o signify_v peter_n church_n for_o master_n harding_n grant_v that_o now_o they_o signify_v the_o church_n but_o then_o they_o signify_v his_o grave_n here_o it_o be_v reason_n before_o we_o believe_v he_o he_o shall_v tell_v we_o how_o long_o limina_fw-la petri_n do_v signify_v the_o burial_n place_n and_o when_o it_o leave_v his_o grave_n and_o become_v the_o name_n of_o his_o church_n who_o give_v it_o to_o the_o grave_n and_o who_o take_v it_o from_o it_o undouted_a prove_n must_v be_v have_v for_o so_o incredible_a a_o matter_n it_o be_v a_o strange_a case_n for_o thing_n to_o lose_v their_o name_n and_o if_o it_o be_v do_v as_o sometime_o it_o chance_v it_o be_v by_o the_o consent_n of_o whole_a country_n register_v by_o diverse_a author_n if_o in_o this_o case_n we_o see_v like_o authority_n we_o will_v allow_v the_o better_a of_o m._n harding_n say_v graves_n as_o it_o may_v be_v think_v be_v never_o call_v so_o church_n have_v that_o name_n long_o before_o peter_n time_n religiosa_fw-la deorum_fw-la limina_fw-la say_v virgil_n the_o holy_a temple_n of_o the_o god_n &_o calixtus_n the_o pope_n say_v ecclesiastica_fw-la limina_fw-la mean_v the_o church_n hereby_o it_o appear_v that_o limina_fw-la petri_n be_v peter_n church_n 19_o and_o nauclerus_fw-la write_v of_o totilas_n more_o than_o a_o thousand_o year_n ago_o say_v cum_fw-la ad_fw-la beati_fw-la petri_n limina_fw-la pervenisset_fw-la mean_v when_o he_o come_v to_o peter_n church_n now_o let_v master_n harding_n show_v that_o it_o signify_v the_o grave_n ere_o he_o require_v credit_n yet_o what_o if_o it_o do_v so_o be_v it_o not_o all_o one_o superstition_n to_o visit_v y_z e_o grave_n of_o godly_a man_n &_o to_o visit_v their_o temple_n be_v either_o of_o both_o command_v by_o the_o lord_n god_n in_o this_o untruth_n master_n harding_n show_v little_a matter_n against_o master_n jewel_n and_o less_o good_a divinity_n in_o himself_o the_o b._n of_o saris._n fabianus_n write_v of_o the_o come_n of_o novatus_fw-la into_o italy_n and_o it_o be_v clear_a by_o s._n cyprian_n and_o by_o eusebius_n that_o novatus_fw-la come_v first_o into_o italy_n in_o the_o time_n of_o cornelius_n which_o be_v next_o after_o he_o harding_n the_o .142_o untruth_n it_o be_v not_o clear_a dering_n to_o a_o owl_n eye_n the_o clear_a sun_n bring_v darkness_n to_o one_o that_o will_v not_o understand_v there_o be_v no_o sentence_n plain_a when_o god_n shall_v open_v master_n harding_n eye_n he_o will_v then_o see_v better_o 1._o these_o be_v cyprian_n word_n unto_o cornelius_n speak_v of_o novatus_fw-la a_o te_fw-la illinc_fw-la prohibitum_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la cum_fw-la venisset_fw-la etc._n etc._n of_o thou_o he_o be_v forbid_v the_o church_n when_o he_o come_v etc._n etc._n and_o it_o follow_v with_o such_o spirit_n as_o become_v a_o bishop_n whereby_o it_o appear_v he_o be_v then_o also_o bishop_n what_o can_v be_v say_v more_o plain_a it_o follow_v further_a cum_fw-la animaduertis●em_fw-la te_fw-la minis_fw-la atque_fw-la terroribus_fw-la eorum_fw-la qui_fw-la venerant_fw-la esse_fw-la commotum_fw-la etc._n etc._n when_o i_o perceive_v that_o thou_o be_v move_v with_o the_o fear_n and_o threaten_n of_o those_o that_o come_v with_o he_o then_o belike_o cornelius_n be_v there_o before_o and_o eusebius_n speak_v at_o the_o same_o time_n 33._o of_o cornelius_n and_o call_v he_o vrbis_fw-la romae_fw-la episcopus_fw-la the_o bishop_n of_o the_o city_n of_o rome_n and_o this_o also_o appear_v by_o sozomenus_n that_o the_o first_o conflict_n of_o novatus_fw-la 23._o be_v with_o cornelius_n therefore_o master_n harding_n may_v easy_o have_v see_v this_o have_v not_o either_o his_o eye_n be_v anoint_v or_o he_o dispose_v to_o wrangle_v the_o b_o ▪_o of_o saris._n neither_o s._n jerome_n nor_o gennadius_n nor_o damasus_n ever_o make_v any_o mention_n either_o of_o such_o epistle_n or_o of_o any_o such_o decree_n harding_n the_o .143_o untruth_n damasus_n make_v express_v mention_n of_o such_o decree_n dering_n this_o be_v a_o express_a untruth_n as_o many_o other_o be_v which_o master_n harding_n frame_v damasus_n do_v speak_v of_o certain_a decree_n which_o be_v make_v by_o these_o pope_n and_o that_o we_o may_v easy_o grant_v but_o that_o he_o mention_v these_o epistle_n or_o recite_v the_o decree_n in_o those_o word_n that_o be_v not_o show_v and_o it_o may_v easy_o be_v that_o he_o who_o make_v these_o epistle_n will_v gather_v some_o decree_n find_v in_o other_o book_n this_o be_v a_o small_a proufe_v against_o so_o many_o manifest_a argument_n the_o b._n of_o saris._n by_o soters_n decree_n it_o be_v lawful_a to_o say_v mass_n have_v only_o two_o in_o his_o company_n harding_n the_o .144_o untruth_n this_o decree_n speak_v not_o of_o company_n present_a but_o of_o two_o to_o make_v answer_v dering_n there_o be_v belike_o some_o subtle_a distinction_n in_o this_o untruth_n for_o as_o the_o word_n lie_v they_o be_v somewhat_o obscure_a of_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a see_v master_n jewel_n say_v that_o soters_n decree_n require_v only_o the_o company_n of_o two_o and_o master_n harding_n say_v it_o require_v two_o to_o make_v answer_n if_o it_o may_v any_o way_n be_v prove_v that_o they_o that_o answer_v the_o priest_n be_v in_o his_o company_n than_o this_o untruth_n be_v soon_o discharge_v as_o touch_v soter_n own_o decree_n the_o word_n be_v plain_a that_o no_o man_n shall_v say_v mass_n without_o two_o person_n and_o to_o take_v away_o this_o cavil_n about_o two_o to_o answer_v and_o to_o verify_v master_n juel_n word_n the_o title_n of_o the_o decree_n be_v this_o etc._n except_o he_o have_v two_o present_a let_v no_o priest_n presume_v to_o say_v mass_n now_o what_o need_v this_o wrangle_n about_o the_o answer_v if_o there_o be_v two_o present_a they_o must_v needs_o answer_v the_o b._n of_o saris._n s._n augustine_n and_o s._n jerome_n have_v recover_v that_o that_o the_o people_n of_o rome_n even_o in_o their_o time_n use_v to_o receive_v the_o communion_n together_o every_o day_n harding_n the_o .145_o untruth_n saint_n augustine_n and_o saint_n jerome_n do_v not_o report_v so_o dering_n lo●ini_fw-la this_o untruth_n have_v be_v make_v now_o three_o time_n by_o master_n harding_n it_o be_v the_o .83_o the_o .133_o &_o this_o the_o three_o augustine_n say_v some_o receive_v every_o day_n some_o certain_a day_n jerome_n say_v the_o like_a read_v the_o place_n thou_o shall_v not_o be_v deceive_v read_v more_o of_o this_o untruth_n in_o the_o place_n allege_v the_o 83._o &_o .133_o untruth_n &_o .155_o untruth_n the_o b._n of_o saris._n this_o word_n solennia_fw-la which_o be_v here_o use_v seem_v to_o import_v a_o solemn_a company_n or_o resort_v of_o the_o people_n and_o yet_o this_o soter_n require_v to_o this_o action_n only_o the_o company_n of_o three_o person_n nevertheless_o call_v it_o missarum_fw-la solennia_fw-la harding_n the_o .146_o
no_o party_n which_o way_n so_o ever_o you_o interpret_v they_o declare_v a_o great_a want_n of_o good_a matter_n to_o prove_v the_o thing_n itself_o which_o lie_v in_o controversy_n if_o these_o word_n be_v not_o in_o the_o same_o place_n yet_o the_o very_a allegation_n of_o the_o gréeke_n text_n be_v a_o sufficient_a proof_n they_o be_v find_v in_o the_o author_n and_o therefore_o if_o false_a quote_v the_o place_n be_v the_o great_a fault_n let_v it_o go_v for_o i_o it_o be_v not_o worthy_a no_o answer_n the_o b._n of_o saris._n it_o be_v forbid_v by_o many_o decree_n to_o minister_v the_o sacrament_n in_o private_a house_n harding_n the_o .185_o untruthe_n it_o be_v not_o forbid_v dering_n untruth_n may_v well_o grow_v in_o number_n where_o one_o may_v be_v reckon_v so_o many_o time_n read_v the_o .176_o untruthe_n the_o b._n of_o saris._n m._n harding_n have_v violent_o and_o of_o purpose_n falsify_v the_o translation_n harding_n the_o .186_o untruthe_n my_o translation_n be_v 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