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church_n bishop_n ordination_n presbyter_n 9,874 5 10.5221 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A74979 Excommunicatio excommunicata, or, A censure of the Presbyterian censures and proceedings in the Classis at Manchester wherein is modestly examined what ecclesiastical or civil function [sic] they pretend for their new and usurped power : in a discourse betwixt the ministers of that Classis, and some dissenting Christians. Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.; Allen, Isaac, 17th cent.; Heyrick, Richard, 1600-1667. 1658 (1658) Wing A1026A; ESTC R42720 45,307 67

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in_o those_o very_a term_n covenant_v against_o that_o the_o liberty_n that_o be_v grant_v to_o some_o be_v not_o extend_v to_o popery_n and_o prelacy_n and_o therefore_o if_o any_o diocesan_n bishop_n shall_v exercise_v his_o jurisdiction_n and_o excommunicate_v any_o person_n within_o this_o land_n wherein_o by_o authority_n as_o you_o may_v see_v afterward_o there_o be_v also_o a_o appointment_n of_o another_o government_n we_o leave_v it_o to_o those_o that_o be_v learn_v in_o the_o law_n to_o determine_v whether_o such_o diocesan_n bishop_n will_v not_o run_v themselves_o into_o a_o praemunire_n but_o if_o you_o do_v not_o restrain_v lawful_a pastor_n to_o these_o only_a our_o doubt_n yet_o be_v whether_o you_o mean_v not_o only_o such_o minister_n as_o be_v ordain_v by_o diocesan_n bishop_n exclude_v those_o out_o of_o the_o number_n that_o since_o their_o be_v take_v away_o have_v be_v ordain_v by_o presbyter_n only_o if_o this_o be_v your_o sense_n we_o shall_v only_o at_o present_a mind_n you_o of_o what_o be_v publish_v to_o be_v the_o judgement_n of_o dr_n vsher_n late_a primate_n of_o ireland_n in_o a_o book_n late_o put_v forth_o by_o dr_n bernard_n preacher_n to_o the_o honourable_a society_n of_o grays-inn_n and_o who_o though_o a_o stranger_n to_o we_o and_o one_o of_o a_o different_a judgement_n from_o we_o in_o the_o point_n of_o episcopacy_n yet_o we_o reverence_v for_o his_o moderation_n and_o profession_n of_o his_o desire_n for_o peace_n wish_v that_o such_o as_o do_v consent_n in_o substantial_o for_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n will_v consider_v of_o some_o conjunction_n in_o point_n of_o discipline_n that_o private_a interest_n and_o circumstantial_o may_v not_o keep_v they_o thus_o far_o asunder_o book_n asunder_o see_v pag._n 14●_n of_o his_o last_o book_n in_o which_o wish_n as_o we_o do_v cordial_o join_v ourselves_o so_o we_o hearty_o desire_v that_o all_o godly_a and_o moderate_a spirit_a man_n throughout_o the_o land_n will_v also_o close_o but_o the_o book_n which_o the_o say_a doctor_n have_v late_o publish_v be_v entitle_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o late_a archbishop_n of_o armagh_n and_o primate_n of_o ireland_n etc._n etc._n in_o this_o book_n this_o doctor_n tell_v we_o that_o the_o late_a primate_n in_o answer_n to_o a_o letter_n of_o his_o send_v to_o he_o as_o it_o shall_v seem_v for_o that_o purpose_n declare_v his_o judgement_n touch_v the_o ordination_n of_o the_o ministry_n in_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o france_n and_o holland_n there_o he_o say_v that_o episcopus_fw-la &_o presbyter_n gradu_fw-la tantum_fw-la differunt_fw-la non_fw-la ordine_fw-la and_o consequent_o that_o in_o place_n where_o bishop_n can_v be_v have_v the_o ordination_n by_o presbyter_n stand_v valid_a and_o in_o the_o close_a of_o his_o answer_n about_o this_o point_n he_o say_v that_o for_o the_o testifiy_n of_o his_o communion_n with_o the_o church_n of_o the_o low-countrye_n of_o who_o he_o have_v speak_v immediate_o before_o and_o which_o he_o there_o profess_v he_o do_v love_n and_o honour_n as_o true_a member_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n notwithstanding_o the_o difference_n that_o be_v betwixt_o he_o and_o they_o about_o the_o point_n of_o episcopacy_n he_o do_v profess_v that_o with_o like_a affection_n he_o shall_v receive_v the_o bless_a sacrament_n at_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o dutch_a minister_n if_o he_o be_v in_o holland_n as_o he_o shall_v do_v at_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o french_a minister_n if_o he_o be_v in_o charenton_n see_v pag._n 125._o and_o 126._o hence_o you_o may_v perceive_v that_o the_o judgement_n of_o dr_n usher_n be_v that_o the_o ordination_n of_o presbyter_n where_o bishop_n can_v be_v have_v stand_v valid_a and_o consequent_o if_o you_o be_v of_o his_o opinion_n and_o you_o must_v have_v strong_a reason_n than_o ever_o yet_o we_o have_v see_v to_o bear_v you_o out_o therein_o if_o you_o judge_v otherwise_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v esteem_v lawful_a pastor_n to_o who_o you_o grant_v the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n bishop_n be_v now_o take_v away_o and_o may_v not_o therefore_o ordain_v according_a to_o the_o present_a law_n of_o the_o land_n the_o say_v dr_n bernard_n have_v some_o animadvertisement_n upon_o that_o letter_n in_o which_o dr_n usher_n do_v deliver_v his_o judgement_n as_o above_o say_v and_o there_o show_v that_o he_o be_v not_o in_o this_o judgement_n of_o his_o singular_a he_o allege_v dr_n davenant_n that_o pious_a and_o learned_a bishop_n of_o sarisbury_n as_o consent_v with_o he_o in_o it_o in_o his_o determination_n quaest_n 42._o and_o produce_v the_o principal_a of_o the_o schooleman_n gulielmus_fw-la parisiensis_fw-la gerson_n durand_n etc._n etc._n and_o declare_v it_o to_o be_v the_o general_n opinion_n of_o the_o schoolman_n episcopatum_fw-la ut_fw-la distinguitur_fw-la à_fw-la simplici_fw-la sacerdotio_fw-la non_fw-la esse_fw-la alium_fw-la ordinem_fw-la etc._n etc._n see_v pag._n 130._o of_o the_o aforenamed_a book_n as_o also_o pag._n 131.132_o where_o the_o concurrence_n of_o dr_n davenant_n with_o dr_n usher_n in_o his_o judgement_n about_o this_o matter_n be_v declare_v more_o full_o he_o add_v also_o other_o as_o in_o special_a dr_n richard_z field_n in_o his_o learned_a book_n of_o the_o church_n lib._n 3._o cap._n 39_o and_o lib._n 5._o cap._n 27._o and_o also_o that_o book_n entitle_v a_o defence_n of_o the_o ordination_n of_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n beyond_o the_o sea_n maintain_v by_o archdeacon_n mason_n against_o the_o romanist_n and_o further_o he_o say_v he_o have_v be_v assure_v it_o be_v not_o only_o the_o judgement_n of_o bishop_n overall_n but_o that_o he_o have_v a_o principal_a hand_n in_o it_o he_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o forementioned_a author_n produce_v many_o testimony_n the_o mr_n of_o the_o sentence_n and_o most_o of_o the_o schoolman_n bonaventure_n thomas_n aquinas_n durand_n dominicus_n soto_n richardus_fw-la armachanus_fw-la tostatus_n alphonsus_n a_o castro_n gerson_n petrus_n canisius_n to_o have_v affirm_v the_o same_o and_o at_o last_o quote_v medina_n a_o principal_a bishop_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n who_o affirm_v that_o jerome_n ambrose_n augustine_n sedulius_n primasius_n chrysostome_n theodoret_n theophylact_fw-mi be_v of_o the_o same_o judgement_n also_o but_o you_o may_v see_v these_o thing_n yourselves_o in_o dr_n bernard_n pag._n 132_o 133_o 134._o we_o have_v be_v only_o at_o the_o pain_n to_o transcribe_v they_o we_o can_v allege_v many_o more_o testimony_n to_o prove_v this_o but_o we_o count_v these_o sufficient_a and_o do_v allege_v these_o the_o rather_o because_o bring_v by_o one_o that_o be_v of_o the_o same_o judgement_n with_o you_o as_o we_o suppose_v but_o have_v declare_v how_o far_o you_o accord_n with_o we_o in_o judgement_n touch_v the_o way_n of_o inform_v the_o ignorant_a and_o reform_v the_o wicked_a person_n and_o schismatical_a etc._n etc._n you_o tell_v we_o that_o you_o 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church_n our_o faith_n be_v hereupon_o resolve_v into_o a_o most_o uncertain_a ground_n and_o so_o make_v fallible_a and_o turn_v into_o opinion_n for_o what_o monument_n of_o antiquity_n beside_o the_o scripture_n can_v assure_v we_o touch_v the_o matter_n of_o fact_n therein_o contain_v that_o they_o be_v such_o indeed_o as_o they_o be_v there_o report_v to_o be_v the_o author_n of_o they_o themselves_o being_n man_n that_o be_v not_o infallible_o guide_v by_o the_o spirit_n but_o yet_o suppose_v we_o can_v be_v infallible_o assure_v which_o yet_o never_o can_v be_v what_o be_v the_o universal_a and_o constant_a practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n how_o shall_v that_o be_v a_o rule_n to_o assure_v we_o what_o be_v most_o consonant_a to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n when_o as_o we_o see_v not_o especial_o in_o such_o matter_n as_o be_v not_o absolute_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n errrour_n even_o as_o a_o general_n council_n itself_o be_v subject_a to_o errrour_n but_o that_o the_o universal_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n may_v in_o some_o thing_n be_v dissonant_n to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n reveal_v in_o scripture_n and_o so_o the_o universal_a practice_n of_o primitive_a church_n can_v be_v no_o certain_a rule_n to_o judge_v by_o what_o church_n government_n be_v most_o consonant_a to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n reveal_v in_o his_o word_n we_o know_v there_o be_v corruption_n in_o the_o best_a of_o man_n there_o be_v such_o hot_a contention_n betwixt_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n 2._o gal._n 2._o as_o cause_v they_o to_o part_v asunder_o peter_n so_o fail_v in_o his_o practice_n as_o that_o though_o before_o some_o come_v from_o james_n he_o do_v eat_v with_o the_o gentile_n yet_o when_o they_o be_v come_v he_o withdraw_v himself_o fear_v they_o of_o the_o circumcision_n and_o hereupon_o not_o only_o other_o jew_n dissemble_v with_o he_o but_o barnabas_n also_o be_v carry_v away_o with_o their_o dissimulation_n whence_o it_o be_v clear_a that_o the_o 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domination_n be_v strive_v for_o among_o the_o pastor_n and_o bishop_n of_o the_o church_n till_o at_o length_n antichrist_n be_v get_v up_o into_o his_o seat_n unto_o which_o height_n yet_o he_o come_v not_o all_o at_o once_o but_o by_o step_n and_o degree_n beside_o it_o be_v of_o fresh_a remembrance_n that_o notwithstanding_o the_o reformation_n happy_o bring_v about_o in_o our_o own_o church_n in_o regard_n of_o doctrine_n and_o worship_n after_o those_o dismal_a marian_n time_n yet_o the_o corruption_n in_o regard_n of_o government_n continue_v such_o during_o the_o time_n of_o the_o late_a prelacy_n which_o yet_o be_v take_v away_o in_o other_o reform_a church_n that_o the_o pastor_n be_v deprive_v of_o that_o power_n of_o rule_n that_o our_o church_n acknowledge_v do_v belong_v to_o they_o of_o right_a and_o which_o do_v ancient_o belong_v to_o they_o however_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o do_v after_o grow_v into_o a_o long_a disuse_n as_o have_v be_v show_v before_o and_o 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excommunicatio_fw-la excommunicata_n or_o a_o censure_n of_o the_o presbyterian_a censure_n and_o proceed_n in_o the_o classis_fw-la at_o manchester_n wherein_o be_v modest_o examine_v what_o ecclesiastical_a or_o civil_a function_n they_o pretend_v for_o their_o new_a and_o usurp_a power_n in_o a_o discourse_n betwixt_o the_o minister_n of_o that_o classis_fw-la and_o some_o dissent_v christian_n london_n print_v for_o humphrey_n moseley_n at_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o prince_n arm_n in_o st._n paul_n churchyard_n 1658._o the_o preface_n in_o such_o a_o age_n as_o this_o when_o the_o heat_n of_o vain_a and_o unprofitable_a controversy_n have_v breed_v more_o scribbler_n plautus_n plautus_n than_o a_o hot_a summer_n in_o the_o comedian_n simile_n do_v fly_n it_o may_v seem_v more_o rational_a according_a to_o solomon_n rule_n for_o prudent_a man_n to_o keep_v silence_n then_o to_o vex_v themselves_o and_o disquiet_v other_o with_o such_o empty_a discourse_n as_o rather_o enlarge_v then_o compose_v the_o difference_n of_o god_n people_n it_o be_v a_o sad_a age_n that_o of_o domitian_n of_o which_o the_o historian_n affirm_v tacitus_n tacitus_n that_o then_o inertia_fw-la pro_fw-la sapientiâ_fw-la erat_fw-la ignorance_n be_v the_o best_a knowledge_n laziness_n and_o servility_n be_v the_o best_a diligence_n and_o we_o can_v wish_v this_o age_n do_v not_o too_o much_o resemble_v that_o but_o when_o we_o see_v every_o marsyas_n with_o a_o old_a pipe_n of_o minerva_n dare_v contend_v with_o apollo_n that_o man_n of_o low_a and_o cheap_a ability_n be_v too_o loud_a and_o too_o hard_o for_o man_n of_o the_o choice_a and_o best_a design_n certain_o inertia_fw-la pro_fw-la sapientia_fw-la erit_fw-la he_o be_v the_o best_a orator_n that_o dwell_v in_o silence_n and_o he_o be_v the_o wise_a man_n that_o keep_v the_o privacy_n and_o recluseness_n of_o his_o own_o ville_fw-fr appion_n appion_n hannibal_n once_o tell_v scipio_n that_o it_o have_v be_v better_a both_o for_o rome_n and_o carthage_n if_o both_o of_o they_o have_v be_v content_v within_o their_o own_o bound_n and_o possible_o it_o have_v be_v more_o honourable_a both_o for_o our_o brethren_n of_o the_o presbytery_n and_o ourselves_o have_v we_o make_v our_o list_n more_o private_a and_o play_v our_o prize_n only_o behind_o the_o curtain_n for_o so_o we_o have_v confine_v and_o determine_v our_o ignorance_n to_o our_o own_o sphere_n and_o our_o defect_n have_v be_v visible_a to_o no_o eye_n but_o our_o own_o plutarch_n plutarch_n but_o as_o antalcidas_n object_v to_o agesilan_n the_o spartan_n have_v make_v the_o theban_n fight_v whether_o they_o will_v or_o no_o the_o exasperation_n and_o bitterness_n of_o our_o brethren_n pliny_n pliny_n have_v lend_v coward_n courage_n and_o provoke_v we_o to_o combat_v whether_o we_o will_v or_o no_o miserum_fw-la est_fw-la pati_fw-la nec_fw-la licere_fw-la quert_v it_o be_v a_o hard_a case_n to_o be_v hurt_v and_o to_o have_v our_o mouth_n stop_v to_o suffer_v and_o to_o be_v oblige_v not_o to_o complain_v qui_fw-la unam_fw-la patitur_fw-la iujuriam_fw-la invitat_fw-la aliam_fw-la seneca_n seneca_n it_o be_v a_o certain_a rule_n with_o the_o man_n of_o this_o persuasion_n if_o you_o take_v a_o blow_n from_o they_o on_o one_o cheek_n you_o can_v be_v christian_n in_o their_o calendar_n unless_o you_o turn_v the_o other_o also_o we_o have_v well_o hope_v that_o what_o tully_n note_v to_o be_v the_o eloquence_n of_o atticus_n respondere_fw-la sciat_fw-la i_o sibi_fw-la dum_fw-la taceo_fw-la our_o silence_n and_o our_o patience_n may_v have_v be_v good_a orator_n for_o we_o to_o have_v answer_v the_o pretension_n of_o their_o power_n the_o disguise_n of_o their_o popular_a discourse_n and_o the_o harsh_a proceed_n towards_o we_o but_o the_o more_o we_o suffer_v they_o triumph_v the_o more_o and_o because_o it_o be_v our_o judgement_n and_o choice_n to_o dwell_v in_o silence_n they_o think_v we_o either_o can_v not_o or_o dare_v not_o speak_v but_o nemo_fw-la nobis_fw-la amiciss_fw-la uti_fw-la potest_fw-la &_o adulatoribus_fw-la they_o shall_v find_v we_o be_v their_o friend_n but_o not_o their_o parasite_n we_o will_v speak_v that_o truth_n which_o we_o understand_v beseech_v the_o good_a spirit_n to_o lead_v they_o and_o we_o into_o all_o truth_n and_o in_o this_o mean_a and_o inconsiderable_a service_n we_o appeal_v to_o the_o 1000_o witness_n within_o we_o that_o we_o speak_v nothing_o out_o of_o pride_n or_o envy_n or_o with_o unchristian_a reflection_n upon_o our_o suffering_n but_o with_o a_o hearty_a desire_n of_o peace_n that_o they_o or_o we_o may_v be_v convince_v and_o at_o last_o meet_v by_o a_o unity_n of_o the_o spirit_n in_o the_o bond_n of_o peace_n we_o shall_v not_o present_v the_o room_n and_o model_n of_o the_o whole_a house_n in_o the_o porch_n yet_o we_o shall_v preface_n a_o recital_n of_o those_o grievance_n which_o make_v we_o open_v our_o mouth_n in_o this_o discourse_n ne_o extorqueretur_fw-la nobis_fw-la causa_fw-la lucii_n cottae_n patrocinio_fw-la lest_o we_o may_v seem_v to_o fear_v the_o giant_n of_o presbytery_n and_o to_o think_v it_o be_v only_o that_o palladium_n that_o will_v preserve_v the_o city_n of_o god_n about_o 7_o month_n since_o the_o classis_fw-la of_o manchester_n publish_v their_o breviate_n or_o censure_n against_o all_o that_o come_v not_o in_o to_o they_o for_o trial_n and_o examination_n wherein_o they_o go_v to_o the_o high_a way_n and_o compel_v all_o to_o come_v in_o and_o give_v submission_n to_o their_o government_n by_o subject_v themselves_o to_o examination_n by_o the_o minister_n and_o elder_n not_o only_o such_o as_o may_v be_v suspect_v to_o be_v ignorant_a or_o scandalous_a but_o all_o of_o all_o elevation_n of_o all_o judgement_n must_v come_v under_o the_o inquisition_n not_o so_o much_o we_o fear_v to_o fit_v they_o for_o the_o sacrament_n as_o to_o teach_v they_o obedience_n that_o they_o may_v know_v themselves_o tacitus_n tacitus_n as_o tiberius_n say_v of_o the_o senate_n that_o they_o be_v homines_fw-la ad_fw-la servitutem_fw-la nati_fw-la to_o owe_v a_o obedience_n to_o their_o new_a master_n which_o they_o must_v pay_v under_o the_o grand_a penalty_n of_o suspension_n and_o excommunication_n i_o answer_v to_o these_o bruta_n fulmina_fw-la we_o with_o all_o meekness_n and_o humility_n send_v they_o one_o single_a sheet_n of_o paper_n desire_v satisfaction_n in_o some_o thing_n wherein_o our_o reason_n and_o religion_n oblige_v we_o to_o be_v of_o a_o different_a judgement_n from_o they_o this_o one_o sheet_n they_o return_v in_o seven_o a_o answer_n long_o enough_o if_o it_o be_v sound_a enough_o to_o satisfy_v we_o in_o our_o scruple_n and_o in_o their_o proceed_n they_o pretend_v for_o what_o they_o do_v both_o a_o ecclesiastical_a and_o civil_a function_n a_o commission_n from_o christ_n and_o the_o state_n also_o but_o that_o maxim_n of_o the_o ancient_a will_v here_o be_v find_v true_a 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d our_o own_o law_n build_v upon_o passion_n and_o interest_n be_v common_o lawless_a it_o be_v apparent_a to_o we_o that_o their_o new_a light_n have_v no_o light_n from_o antiquity_n or_o primitive_a form_n that_o their_o new_a rule_n have_v no_o establishment_n either_o by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o christian_n church_n or_o the_o law_n of_o this_o land_n st._n jerom_n say_v of_o origen_n that_o ingenii_fw-la svi_fw-la acumina_fw-la putat_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la esse_fw-la sacramenta_fw-la a_o imagination_n sure_a of_o our_o presbyter_n that_o the_o placita_fw-la of_o their_o own_o will_n must_v pass_v for_o civil_a and_o divine_a constitution_n we_o wonder_v that_o man_n pretend_v to_o learning_n and_o religion_n shall_v not_o only_o call_v in_o the_o lord_n of_o truth_n to_o abett_v the_o fancy_n of_o man_n but_o shall_v also_o pretend_v to_o encouragement_n and_o commission_n from_o the_o state_n to_o second_v their_o prevarication_n it_o have_v please_v his_o highness_n in_o his_o wisdom_n and_o clemency_n to_o secure_v all_o godly_a and_o peaceable_a man_n profess_v jesus_n christ_n from_o those_o ordinance_n which_o the_o rigour_n of_o presbytery_n have_v mount_v against_o they_o but_o where_o he_o give_v the_o least_o encouragement_n for_o this_o power_n usurp_v by_o they_o we_o find_v not_o and_o therefore_o we_o think_v it_o be_v friendly_a advice_n that_o they_o take_v heed_n lest_o their_o unguided_a zeal_n or_o interest_n precipitate_v they_o into_o a_o praemunire_n since_o under_o colour_n of_o authority_n they_o have_v make_v law_n and_o canon_n and_o publish_v they_o open_o in_o the_o church_n for_o all_o to_o obey_v upon_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n not_o only_o against_o all_o the_o ancient_a know_a law_n of_o elder_a date_n but_o also_o contrary_a to_o the_o present_a establishment_n and_o the_o magistracy_n under_o which_o we_o now_o live_v it_o be_v a_o trouble_n to_o we_o to_o hear_v they_o cry_v out_o against_o prelacy_n and_o episcopacy_n as_o only_o a_o artificial_a and_o political_a device_n to_o
catechize_v public_o in_o the_o congregation_n but_o as_o for_o those_o that_o be_v conscious_a to_o themselves_o that_o they_o be_v very_o ignorant_a if_o these_o shall_v be_v call_v forth_o to_o public_a catechise_v it_o be_v more_o likely_a to_o drive_v they_o from_o the_o public_a assembly_n and_o so_o from_o the_o use_n of_o all_o mean_n for_o their_o information_n then_o be_v available_a to_o this_o end_n as_o touch_v what_o be_v propound_v by_o we_o in_o our_o paper_n as_o the_o way_n for_o their_o information_n though_o it_o be_v not_o intend_v for_o any_o such_o a_o purpose_n as_o to_o exclude_v public_a catechise_v it_o be_v do_v in_o way_n of_o condescension_n to_o the_o weak_a and_o to_o show_v our_o willingness_n to_o apply_v ourselves_o to_o any_o course_n so_o we_o may_v be_v instrumental_a to_o bring_v poor_a dark_a and_o blind_a soul_n to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o christ_n and_o which_o in_o our_o judgement_n be_v more_o likely_a to_o be_v attain_v in_o many_o as_o the_o case_n stand_v with_o they_o in_o a_o more_o private_a way_n of_o catechise_v in_o any_o of_o the_o way_n propound_v by_o we_o then_o if_o we_o shall_v catechise_v all_o the_o several_a family_n public_o before_o the_o whole_a congregation_n 2_o touch_v those_o that_o err_v so_o gross_o whether_o in_o doctrinal_n or_o point_n of_o discipline_n thereby_o rent_v from_o a_o true_a constitute_v church_n you_o say_v we_o speak_v nothing_o either_o of_o their_o sin_n or_o punishment_n yet_o you_o hope_v we_o with_o you_o do_v hold_v that_o the_o church_n lawful_a pastor_n have_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n commit_v to_o they_o to_o excommunicate_v such_o offender_n we_o have_v give_v you_o the_o reason_n already_o why_o we_o make_v not_o such_o express_a mention_n of_o these_o offender_n as_o of_o the_o former_a although_o as_o you_o will_v hereafter_o perceive_v we_o be_v not_o whole_o silent_a touch_n eirhe_a the_o sin_n or_o punishment_n of_o these_o only_o at_o present_a because_o you_o profess_v to_o allow_v of_o that_o previous_a course_n of_o admonition_n prescribe_v by_o christ_n in_o reference_n to_o the_o scandalous_a mat._n 18._o before_o they_o be_v excommunicate_v but_o here_o say_v nothing_o of_o any_o such_o course_n to_o be_v take_v with_o the_o heretical_a or_o schismatical_a though_o we_o hope_v also_o of_o you_o that_o you_o disallow_v it_o not_o we_o shall_v brief_o declare_v what_o course_n be_v to_o be_v hold_v by_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n before_o the_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n pass_v against_o these_o offender_n and_o whereof_o our_o paper_n be_v not_o silent_a this_o government_n however_o it_o give_v no_o toleration_n to_o any_o such_o error_n as_o subvert_v the_o faith_n or_o any_o other_o error_n which_o overthrow_n the_o power_n of_o godliness_n if_o the_o party_n who_o hold_v they_o spread_v they_o seek_v to_o draw_v other_o after_o he_o or_o to_o any_o such_o practice_n as_o in_o their_o own_o nature_n manifest_o subvert_v that_o order_n unity_n and_o peace_n which_o christ_n have_v establish_v in_o his_o church_n these_o be_v offence_n censure_v by_o this_o government_n and_o of_o which_o further_o afterward_o yet_o this_o government_n prescribe_v the_o exercise_n of_o patience_n and_o long_a suffering_n even_o towards_o those_o that_o do_v gross_o err_v in_o doctrine_n as_o well_o as_o towards_o those_o that_o be_v scandalous_a in_o life_n in_o the_o use_n of_o all_o mean_n for_o the_o convince_a they_o of_o their_o error_n by_o reason_v with_o they_o out_o of_o the_o scripture_n as_o we_o see_v be_v practise_v in_o the_o synod_n that_o be_v hold_v at_o jerusalem_n and_o as_o we_o see_v the_o father_n of_o the_o nicene_n council_n do_v not_o disdain_v to_o reason_n and_o dispute_v with_o arrius_n though_o he_o deny_v the_o deity_n of_o christ_n before_o they_o condemn_v he_o and_o as_o also_o other_o father_n do_v with_o other_o heretic_n in_o the_o synod_n although_o oftentimes_o in_o vain_a that_o so_o none_o may_v have_v any_o just_a cause_n to_o complain_v that_o they_o be_v condemn_v before_o they_o be_v full_o hear_v and_o as_o touch_v such_o as_o run_v into_o such_o practice_n as_o in_o their_o own_o nature_n tend_v manifest_o to_o the_o subvert_v of_o that_o order_n and_o unity_n which_o christ_n have_v establish_v in_o the_o church_n it_o labour_v with_o these_o also_o in_o the_o use_n of_o all_o gentle_a mean_n to_o reclaim_v they_o and_o bring_v they_o back_o again_o to_o the_o church_n they_o have_v rend_v themselves_o from_o before_o it_o proceed_v to_o censure_v as_o it_o do_v also_o put_v a_o difference_n between_o the_o seducer_n and_o ringleader_n of_o a_o sect_n and_o those_o that_o be_v mislead_v have_v respect_n not_o only_o to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o offence_n but_o also_o to_o the_o quality_n of_o the_o offender_n and_o exercise_v patience_n and_o forbearance_n towards_o all_o so_o long_o as_o there_o be_v any_o hope_n of_o reduce_v they_o by_o mild_a correction_n be_v ever_o more_o desireous_a to_o heal_v then_o cut_v off_o any_o member_n and_o thus_o have_v declare_v ourselves_o in_o this_o we_o go_v a_o with_o you_o 3_o for_o you_o say_v for_o such_o as_o be_v scandalous_a and_o wicked_a in_o their_o life_n admonition_n private_a and_o public_a be_v to_o be_v observe_v according_a to_o christ_n rule_n mat._n 18._o but_o if_o they_o still_o continue_v and_o will_v not_o reform_v the_o church_n lawful_a pastor_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v such_o in_o this_o you_o full_o come_v up_o to_o what_o we_o hold_v as_o to_o the_o mean_n that_o be_v to_o be_v use_v for_o the_o reformation_n of_o these_o and_o we_o be_v glad_a there_o be_v a_o agreement_n in_o judgement_n betwixt_o you_o and_o we_o thus_o far_o neither_o can_v we_o see_v how_o upon_o this_o concession_n you_o can_v in_o reason_n find_v fault_n with_o our_o proceed_n if_o there_o shall_v be_v occasion_n for_o our_o censure_v any_o such_o person_n as_o for_o their_o notorious_a offence_n and_o their_o obstinacy_n therein_o may_v just_o merit_v the_o high_a censure_n for_o however_o perhaps_o you_o may_v say_v you_o stumble_v chief_o at_o this_o that_o our_o roll_a elder_n that_o in_o your_o judgement_n may_v be_v but_o mere_a layman_n do_v join_v in_o the_o government_n with_o we_o yet_o we_o see_v not_o how_o this_o can_v be_v any_o just_a ground_n of_o scruple_n to_o any_o of_o you_o who_o if_o we_o mistake_v not_o be_v all_o of_o you_o satisfy_v in_o your_o conscience_n touch_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o late_a government_n of_o episcopacy_n as_o it_o be_v then_o exercise_v at_o least_o as_o to_o submission_n to_o it_o and_o wherein_o high-commissioner_n chancellor_n and_o commissary_n that_o be_v as_o much_o layman_n then_o as_o rule_v elder_n can_v be_v in_o your_o judgement_n now_o have_v so_o great_a a_o share_n as_o to_o suspend_v minister_n from_o the_o exercise_n of_o their_o ministry_n upon_o such_o complaint_n as_o according_a to_o the_o order_n that_o be_v appoint_v in_o those_o day_n they_o may_v take_v cognizance_n of_o and_o so_o far_o as_o to_o decree_v the_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n against_o they_o and_o other_o as_o there_o be_v occasion_n for_o it_o but_o here_o we_o must_v yet_o further_o profess_v we_o do_v not_o know_v who_o you_o mean_v by_o lawful_a pastor_n to_o who_o you_o here_o grant_v the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n hammond_n dr_n hammond_n some_o we_o know_v there_o be_v that_o will_v make_v the_o diocesan_n bishop_n the_o only_a pastor_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o other_o minister_n do_v but_o officiate_v by_o deputation_n from_o they_o and_o under_o they_o we_o hope_v you_o be_v not_o of_o the_o mind_n of_o these_o for_o then_o as_o the_o dissent_n in_o judgement_n betwixt_o you_o and_o we_o will_v be_v far_o great_a then_o as_o yet_o we_o apprehend_v it_o be_v so_o hence_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o till_o prelacy_n shall_v be_v restore_v there_o must_v not_o if_o you_o will_v provide_v for_o the_o safety_n of_o the_o person_n and_o estate_n of_o they_o that_o shall_v manage_v the_o government_n be_v the_o dispence_n of_o any_o church_n censure_v at_o all_o for_o you_o may_v easy_o know_v that_o not_o only_o by_o act_n and_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n before_o make_v for_o the_o abolish_n of_o archbishop_n and_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n and_o which_o be_v confirm_v by_o the_o late_a humble_a advice_n assent_v unto_o by_o his_o highness_n sect_n 12._o the_o office_n and_o jurisdiction_n of_o diocesan_n bishop_n be_v take_v away_o but_o there_o be_v yet_o a_o further_a bar_n put_v in_o against_o prelacy_n in_o the_o 11._o sect_n of_o the_o aforesaid_a humble_a advice_n where_o it_o be_v express_o caution_v and_o we_o judge_v it_o be_v out_o of_o a_o conscientious_a mindfulness_n of_o what_o have_v be_v
authority_n for_o regulate_v the_o outward_a worship_n of_o god_n and_o government_n of_o his_o church_n the_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n for_o these_o cause_n shall_v not_o be_v denounce_v against_o they_o these_o thing_n this_o classis_fw-la take_v into_o consideration_n together_o with_o the_o power_n they_o be_v betrust_v with_o by_o god_n and_o man_n for_o the_o dispence_a the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o case_n censurable_a by_o the_o rule_v here_o lay_v down_o and_o elsewhere_o in_o the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n and_o there_o have_v be_v in_o the_o provincial_n assembly_n several_a debate_n touch_v such_o person_n as_o in_o the_o several_a congregation_n be_v ignorant_a and_o scandalous_a who_o offer_v not_o themselves_o to_o the_o sacrament_n not_o to_o the_o eldership_n in_o order_n to_o their_o admission_n to_o it_o and_o they_o commend_v it_o to_o the_o several_a classical_a presbytery_n to_o be_v consider_v of_o whether_o some_o further_a course_n be_v not_o to_o be_v hold_v for_o the_o information_n of_o the_o one_o and_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o other_o then_o yet_o have_v be_v take_v notwithstanding_o their_o neglect_n and_o what_o they_o judge_v fit_a to_o be_v do_v for_o the_o attain_v those_o end_n and_o to_o represent_v their_o thought_n therein_o to_o the_o next_o assembly_n this_o classis_fw-la upon_o the_o whole_a conclude_v to_o represent_v their_o apprehension_n in_o the_o case_n as_o be_v express_v in_o the_o paper_n that_o be_v publish_v which_o be_v approve_v of_o before_o by_o the_o provincial_a assembly_n and_o which_o they_o judge_v be_v sufficient_o awarrant_v in_o regard_n of_o any_o thing_n therein_o contain_v by_o the_o rule_v express_v in_o the_o above_o mention_v form_n of_o church_n government_n we_o have_v thus_o far_o show_v what_o we_o have_v be_v and_o be_v awarrant_v to_o practice_n by_o the_o several_a ordinance_n above_o mention_v we_o shall_v now_o proceed_v further_a to_o declare_v that_o however_o we_o be_v no_o lawyer_n and_o therefore_o leave_v the_o determination_n of_o the_o case_n to_o the_o learned_a in_o the_o law_n to_o judge_v of_o to_o who_o it_o belong_v yet_o if_o it_o may_v be_v lawful_a for_o we_o to_o judge_v of_o a_o matter_n of_o this_o nature_n from_o the_o principle_n of_o reason_n it_o seem_v to_o we_o that_o the_o above_o mention_v ordinance_n about_o church_n government_n as_o well_o as_o other_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n be_v confirm_v in_o the_o humble_a advice_n assent_v unto_o by_o his_o highness_n in_o the_o 16._o section_n thereof_o where_o we_o find_v these_o word_n and_o that_o nothing_o contain_v in_o this_o petition_n and_o advice_n nor_o your_o highness_n consent_n thereunto_o shall_v be_v construe_v to_o extend_v to_o the_o repeal_n or_o make_v void_a of_o any_o act_n or_o ordinance_n which_o be_v not_o contrary_a hereunto_o or_o to_o the_o matter_n herein_o contain_v but_o that_o the_o say_v act_n and_o ordinance_n not_o contrary_a hereunto_o shall_v continue_v and_o remain_v in_o force_n in_o such_o manner_n as_o if_o this_o present_a petition_n and_o advice_n have_v not_o at_o all_o be_v have_v or_o make_v or_o your_o highness_n consent_n thereunto_o give_v whence_o we_o gather_v that_o if_o in_o the_o several_a ordinance_n for_o church_n government_n there_o be_v nothing_o contrary_a to_o the_o humble_a advice_n or_o to_o the_o matter_n therein_o contain_v they_o be_v not_o thereby_o any_o more_o than_o any_o other_o act_n or_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n repeal_v but_o left_a to_o remain_v in_o force_n at_o least_o there_o seem_v to_o we_o to_o be_v a_o plain_a intimation_n that_o they_o have_v a_o force_n in_o they_o which_o be_v not_o by_o this_o humble_a advice_n repeal_v and_o make_v void_a for_o it_o do_v not_o appear_v to_o we_o that_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n or_o any_o other_o ordinance_n of_o parliament_n about_o that_o matter_n that_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o humble_a advice_n or_o matter_n therein_o contain_v and_o whereas_o in_o the_o 11_o section_n there_o be_v mention_v make_v of_o some_o that_o differ_v in_o worship_n and_o discipline_n from_o the_o public_a profession_n of_o these_o nation_n hold_v forth_o to_o who_o some_o indulgence_n be_v grant_v it_o seem_v to_o we_o there_o be_v a_o acknowledgement_n and_o own_n of_o what_o the_o late_a parliament_n hold_v forth_o in_o regard_n of_o these_o the_o directory_n for_o worship_n and_o form_n of_o church_n government_n which_o they_o pass_v as_o the_o public_a profession_n of_o these_o nation_n in_o regard_n of_o worship_n and_o discipline_n and_o in_o which_o apprehension_n we_o be_v the_o more_o confirm_v because_o here_o in_o this_o section_n mention_n be_v make_v of_o a_o confession_n of_o faith_n to_o be_v agree_v on_o by_o his_o highness_n and_o the_o parliament_n there_o have_v nothing_o in_o that_o kind_n pass_v the_o late_a parliament_n that_o establish_v the_o directory_n for_o worship_n and_o form_n of_o church_n government_n however_o there_o have_v be_v a_o confession_n of_o faith_n draw_v up_o by_o the_o late_a assembly_n of_o divine_n whence_o it_o seem_v to_o we_o clear_a that_o they_o own_o the_o directory_n for_o worship_n and_o the_o form_n of_o church_n government_n to_o be_v that_o which_o they_o hold_v forth_o as_o the_o public_a profession_n of_o the_o nation_n for_o worship_n and_o government_n to_o the_o same_o purpose_n we_o find_v in_o the_o government_n of_o the_o commonwealth_n of_o england_n scotland_n and_o ireland_n etc._n etc._n as_o it_o be_v public_o declare_v at_o westminster_n decemb._n 16._o 1653._o pag._n 43._o sect._n 37._o where_o also_o they_o express_v a_o worship_n and_o discipline_n public_o hold_v forth_o which_o must_v needs_o refer_v to_o the_o directory_n and_o form_n of_o church_n government_n by_o we_o recite_v there_o be_v no_o other_o worship_n or_o discipline_n that_o then_o have_v or_o now_o have_v the_o civil_a sanction_n in_o this_o nation_n we_o have_v be_v large_a in_o what_o we_o have_v here_o represent_v in_o the_o general_a before_o we_o come_v to_o speak_v more_o particular_o to_o the_o rest_n that_o now_o follow_v in_o your_o paper_n but_o our_o pain_n be_v great_a to_o make_v this_o full_a representation_n unto_o you_o than_o it_o will_v be_v for_o you_o to_o read_v it_o we_o must_v entreat_v you_o to_o excuse_v we_o consider_v it_o tend_v as_o well_o to_o rectify_v your_o mistake_n as_o to_o vindicate_v ourselves_o be_v also_o desirous_a not_o to_o be_v mistake_v any_o more_o as_o also_o because_o it_o lay_v a_o foundation_n for_o our_o brief_a and_o more_o particular_a answer_n unto_o what_o follow_v and_o to_o which_o these_o thing_n be_v thus_o premise_v we_o now_o come_v in_o the_o thing_n wherein_o you_o profess_v yourselves_o to_o dissent_v till_o further_o explicate_v and_o unfold_v by_o we_o 1_o the_o first_o thing_n we_o meet_v with_o here_o be_v that_o by_o the_o many_o person_n of_o all_o sort_n that_o be_v member_n of_o congregation_n and_o mention_v in_o our_o paper_n in_o your_o sense_n thereof_o we_o seem_v to_o hint_n that_o thereby_o we_o mean_v only_o such_o who_o have_v admit_v themselves_o member_n of_o some_o congregation_n within_o our_o association_n and_o yet_o live_v inordinate_o etc._n etc._n and_o that_o therefore_o you_o who_o never_o be_v any_o member_n or_o associate_n of_o we_o be_v not_o within_o the_o verge_n and_o compass_n of_o our_o presbyterian_a discipline_n etc._n etc._n unto_o which_o we_o say_v that_o we_o have_v constant_o profess_v against_o those_o of_o the_o separation_n that_o the_o several_a assembly_n of_o congregation_n within_o this_o land_n that_o make_v a_o profession_n of_o the_o true_a christian_a and_o apostolic_a faith_n be_v true_a church_n of_o jesus_n christ_n that_o the_o several_a member_n of_o these_o congregation_n be_v by_o their_o birth_n member_n as_o those_o that_o be_v bear_v in_o the_o jewish_a church_n be_v say_v to_o be_v by_o the_o apostle_n jew_n by_o nature_n gal._n 2._o that_o this_o their_o membership_n be_v seal_v to_o they_o in_o their_o baptism_n that_o do_v solemn_o admit_v they_o as_o into_o the_o universal_a church_n so_o into_o the_o particular_a wherein_o they_o be_v bear_v we_o have_v also_o constant_o maintain_v against_o the_o afore_o mention_v person_n that_o the_o minister_n of_o these_o church_n be_v true_a minister_n notwithstanding_o that_o exception_n of_o they_o against_o they_o that_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n who_o also_o themselves_o be_v true_a minister_n in_o our_o judgement_n though_o we_o can_v acknowledge_v that_o by_o divine_a right_n they_o be_v superior_a to_o their_o fellow_n brethren_n either_o in_o regard_n of_o order_n or_o jurisdiction_n and_o that_o therefore_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n the_o most_o essential_a mark_n of_o a_o true_a visible_a church_n according_a to_o the_o profess_a