do than to mount upon to Heaven with the Wings of true Devotion and offer her Requests in these Words at the Throne of Grace Was it any Amendment instead of praying From Fornication Goood Lord deliver us to say with a Dissenter Lord Unlust us To leave out our admirable Collects for the peaceable and orderly Government of the Church and instead of these to blaspheme the Almighty by telling him If he did not finish the good Work which he had begun in the Reformation of the Church he wou'd shew himself to be a God of Confusion and such an one as by cunning Stratagems had contriv'd the Destruction of his own Children That God wou'd bless the King and mollifie his hard Heart that delights in Blood For that he was fall'n from Faith in God and become an Enemy to his Church Let thy Hand we pray thee O Lord our God be upon him and upon his Father's House But not upon thy People that they should be plagu'd O God! O God! many are the Hands lift up against us But there is one God it is thou thy self O Father who dost us more mischief than they all We know O Lord that Abraham made a Covenant Moses and David made a Covenant and our Saviour made a Covenant But thy Parliament-Covenant is greater than all Covenants with abundance of such intolerable stuff as this I cou'd name Places Time and Persons but I forbear Judge Have you any more to say upon this Head concerning Worship for the Dissenters Dess Advoc. My Lord 'T is the Way they have been us'd to and 't will be hard to persuade them to try any other Judge If that be all go on to the Third Head about Discipline or Church-Government I am willing to hear all out Diss Advoc. We thank your Lordship and the Court we have not much to say in This But New Lords New Laws we are for Change and rather than not have some Amendment in those things we have so long preach'd against nay if all that old Discipline is not laid aside we 'll venture the losing of all the Religion we have rather than submit to the Church Ch. Advoc. I 'm sorry you have no better Argument than Obstinacy When People cannot but acknowledge the Doctrine and Worship of a Church to be according to Truth 't is a Weakness an Absurdity to find fault with its Discipline which was appointed for the better Performance of Religion And the parting from that which is well establish'd the dis-setling of that which is well fixt is not the way to greater Purity and Perfection but to the Corruption and Decay of Religion unless you can shew that the Church was so much over-seen as to constitute Canons and Orders inconsistent with or destructive of the Establish'd Religion Wou'd the Church be so careful to Reform from Popery and to deliver a Pure Religion down to Posterity and not likewise take care of such a Discipline as might preserve the Esteem and Practice of that holy Religion Prove any Order of our Church sinful or not correspondent with Religion that Order that Usage shall immediately be discontinu'd This I am sure you and all the Dissenters in England cannot prove The single and plain Question then is Whether the Government of the Church or That among Dissenters is to be chosen by any Wise Man Look back upon the Changes made in Church-matters by Dissenters in the late Sanctified Times Those Changes those Alterations were not so conducive in their Nature for the Edifying and Well-governing of the Church as those things which they illegally remov'd As for Instance The Ordination by a Bishop accompanied with Presbyters was more certain and satisfactory than that by Presbyters without a Bishop Was it not better to have Forms of well-compos'd Prayers than to petition or rather affront the Almighty with Noise and Nonsense Was it not better to repeat the Creed standing than to leave it quite out of the Directory Was it an Advantage to Christian Piety to change the Gesture of Kneeling in the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper when the Sacred Elements are given together with Prayer for that less-reverent one of Sitting of Sitting especially with the Hat on as the most uncomely Practice of some was and is The People being taught to cover the Head while the Minister was to remain bare among them Was the Alteration of giving the Elements an Amendment Read the Directory for Publick Worship in the time when the Dissenters did their best to excell the Church Take ye eat ye This is the Body of Christ which is broken for you This City is the New-Testament in the Blood of Christ which is shed for the Remission of the Sins of may The Words denoting Christ's present Crucifixion and either actually or in the future certainty of it give countenance to the Romish Sacrifice of the Mass Nor was the Civil Pledge of the Ring in Marriage better'd by the Invention of some Pastors who took a Ring of their Women-converts upon admittance into their Church The Forbidding the Observation of Christ's Nativity and other Holy-days did not add one Hairs-breadth to the Piety of the Nation but on the other Hand it took at least from the Common People one ready Means of fixing in their Memories the most useful History of the Christian Religion 'T is possible for meer Dwarfs in Understanding and Policy to contrive an Alteration in Government that may be pleasing to themselves for a time during their Passion and the Novelty of the Model in their own Fancy not yet disturb'd by some unforeseen Mischief or Inconvenience But 't is extreme difficult upon the whole matter to make a true and lasting Improvement fitted and fram'd to all Cases and Circumstances of Affairs in Religious Observances So that if we make a fair Comparison and let Experience and Reason rule in this Case we must say That the Government of the Church is Best still Diss Advoc. If we have got no Ground of the Establish'd Church in Matters of Doctrine Worship and Discipline I hope it may be granted we have the Advantage by much in the Purity of Life We are holier and less offensive than other Men. If you 'll not allow That we are certainly far more demure and private in our Vices more wary and cautious in letting 〈◊〉 Faults be seen by the World while the Church-men are most care 〈…〉 n that Point and seem far worse than they really are Ch. Advoc. 'T is worth our observation That no Argument has hitherto been offer'd in favour of the Dissenters but carries a sufficient Confutation along with it I have the Charity to think well of some Men who out of a true desire of pleasing God having no worldly Design at the bottom do in some Circumstances differ from us I am perswaded there are many well-meaning Dissenters who from their Hearts detest all known Wickedness And such only will rightly consider the Mischiefs of Separation which every one
those that are acquainted with St. Hierome's Writings well know that this Passage was intended to beat down the Usurpation of the Deacons at Rome who then began to out-top the Presbyters on this Account he was tempted to magnifie and extoll the Place and Dignity of Presbyters in the Church And though he said that Bishops and Presbyters are all one He yet in other places excepts the Office of Ordination and Government And does at other times plainly and frequently assert the Authority of Bishops over Presbyters and did himself constantly live in Communion with and Subjection to Bishops John Calvin could not advance himself at Geneva without the Bishop's Fall and yet had all things belonging to a Bishop but the Name As Old Noll had in the Monarchy but the bare Title of King The Geneva or Presbyterian Discipline was begotten in Rebellion born in Sedition and nurs'd up by Faction Aerius was one of the worst Friends you cou'd have produc'd he was vex'd to see himself slighted and not preferr'd to a Bishoprick as his Companion Eustathius was And this made the haughty Man start aside and talk extravagantly against Bishops â—â—at the Church branded and excommunicated him for an Heretick and Epiphanius represents him little better than a Mad-man distemper'd by Pride Emulation Envy Covetousness Ambition These were the Causes of his opposing Episcopal Government If you consult Blondell Salmatius and Daillé whose great Parts Learning and indefatigable Industry cou'd if any thing have made out the contrary you 'll see they have been forc'd to grant That Episcopacy obtain'd in the Church within a few Years after the Apostolick But our Church can safely carry it higher even to the Apostles themselves so much you urg'd me to speak concerning the Antiquity and Dignity of Bishops in the Church Dissent We all acknowledge we have had Freedom enough to speak for our selves we have but one thing more to plead and then we shall submit to your Lordship's Determination Our Separation from the Church must be allow'd because there are in it many wicked People scandalous ill Livers who for want of due Exercise of Discipline or by the Inadvertence or Connivence of its Governours do remain in it and so give us just occasion of Offence and Separation There are two Texts of Scripture for us in this Case 2 Cor. 6. 17. Wherefore come out from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord and touch not the unclean thing so Rev. 18. 4. Come out of her my people that ye be not partakers of her sins and that ye receive not of her plagues Judge This I take to be none of the least Absurdities the Dissenters are guilty of Are there no such Mixtures no Offenders no ill Livers amongst you Are they all holy harmless and pure that come to your Congregations If not you have the same Reasons to separate to come out from among them as to withdraw from the Church for fear of Pollution and by the same Argument you must never join in any Communion while the World endures The want of Discipline we may thank you for You You Dissenters are the Cause that so many Immoralities are now tolerated That Excommunication and other necessary Censures of the Church which formerly kept People in good Order and preserv'd the Honor and Reputation of Religion are by your Encouragement of Disobedience both omitted and mock'd at And were you truly Men of tender Consciences this one Consideration would make your Hearts ake Look into the State of the Church under the Jewish Administration and you 'll find that the Sins of neither Priest nor People owning the True God became at any time the occasion of Separation to them What Sins could be greater than those of Eli's Sons And yet did not the People of God Elkanah and Hannah by Name refrain to join with them in the Publick Worship 1 Sam. 2. 17 24. In Ahab's time when all Israel halted betwixt God and Belial yet then did the Prophet Elijah summon all Israel to appear on Mount Carmel and held a Religious Communion with them in Preaching and Praying and Offering a Miraculous Sacrifice 1 King 18. All along when both Prince Priests and People were very much deprav'd and debauch'd in their Manners we don't find that the Prophets at any time exhorted the Faithful and Sincere to separate from the rest or that they themselves set up any separate Meetings but continu'd in Communion with the Church preaching to them and advising them to Repentance Look into the New Testament you 'll see in the Apostolick Churches of Corinth Galatia and the seven Churches of Asia many of the Members were grown very Bad and Scandalous yet we don't read the Example of any Good Man separating from the Church or any one Precept rightly understood from the Apostles so to do They don't tell them that the whole Body was polluted by those filthy Members and that if they would be safe themselves they must withdraw from their Communion but exhort 'em to use all Means to reclaim them And if neither private nor publick Admonitions and Reproofs wou'd do then to suspend them from the Communion of the Church till by Repentance and Amendment they render'd themselves capable of being restor'd to Peace and Pardon Our Blessed Saviour knew the Jewish Church to be a corrupt Church Priests and People lewd and vicious yet kept in Communion with it and commanded his Disciples so to do We read that the Scribes and Pharisees who rul'd the Ecclesiastical Chair at that time had perverted the Law corrupted the Worship of God were blind Guides devoured Widows houses were Hypocrites and such as only had a Form of Godliness yet did not our Saviour separate from their Communion but was made under the Law freely submitted himself to all the Rites and Ceremonies of it He was circumcis'd on the Eighth Day redeem'd by a certain Price being a Son and a First-born observ'd the Passover and other Feasts enjoin'd by their Law Yea and that of the Dedication too which was but of Human Institution was baptiz'd amongst them preach'd in their Temples and Synagogues reason'd with 'em about Religion exhorted his Disciples to hear their Doctrine though not to follow their Practices Now what greater Cause on the Account of Corruption and Manners could be given to separate from a Church than was there Yet how carefull was our Saviour both by his Example and Precept to forbid and discountenance it Consider the Representations of a Church given in Scripture and elsewhere to shew that it is a Mixture of Good and Bad 'T is call'd a Field in which Wheat and Tares grew up together a Net wherein are Fishes of all sorts a Barn wherein there is Corn and Chaff a Vine that has fruitful and barren Branches an House in which are Vessels of Gold and Silver and of lesser Value a Marriage-Feast at which were wise and foolish Virgins c. St. Hierome compares the Church to Noah's
Sects are more inclin'd to favour Popery whatever their Clamours may be to the contrary than to encourage the Church and vote for the Defence of it For my part I 'll try what Service I can do in pursuing this Method 1. Enquire out the Author 2. Discover the Errors of the Book 3. Bring our Cause to a fair Trial. 4. Determine according to Truth 1. First For the Author 'T is hard to find out who this Friend Henry is whether Quaker or not If I own the Truth he was a wise and honest Man and were it not in hopes of securing Voices by People's Ignorance I cou'd heartily wish all English-men knew and consider'd so much as he has written O Interest Interest I cannot like any thing that crosses Thee Plain Dealing 's a Jewel but have a care of the latter part of that known Proverb Why should any Man create Enemies to himself Had he not medled with our Diana and the Crafts-men to expose them had not he defended Monarchy Episcopacy and the Whole Religion and Government of the Church of England at such a conjuncture in which we are contriving to subvert 'em I cou'd have more freely excus'd and pardon'd that Author Now we must wait long enough for a Republick we have been plagu'd with Bishops for above Sixteen hundred Years already and 't is to be doubted we shall ne'er get rid of 'em while the World endures We have blacken'd the Church with more than bare Suspicions of Popery and must never again use that Trick to deceive the People All the Dissenters in the Kingdom if they understand Sense and the force of Argument must confess that the Church of England is Orthodox and Apostolical and that no just Imputation of Popery can be fastned on her I desire the Author in his next Edition to abate something of his Virgin Modesty in concealing his Name and Residence The Hornets may buzz about but cannot sting him or if they do he has many Friends Men of Honour Art and Integrity to take care that the Venom may not prove Mortal The Danger is not worth naming when the Religion-Broker is so pleas'd with his Gainful Recipe that he offers Twenty Pounds in Requital Mr. Maggot seems concern'd that the Author wou'd not give him leave to be grateful Our Knight extravagantly promises a Full Bottle of the Best and to give him the Honour of seeing the Parliament for his Reward The Church-men are more oblig'd for those convincing Reasons on their side which require some Time and Skill to answer Porringer and Mouth may be excus'd for Charity 's grown cold among their quondam Benefactors If a Woman one of the Fair Sex as some say was the Author and is as lovely in Body as Mind our good Members earnestly desire to be most intimately acquainted with her If Law Divinity and Physick as most think were engag'd in this Composure w' are over-match'd by far All we can do besides This Trial is by way of Recrimination which will neither invalidate the Book nor extenuate our own Faults Truth will prevail We may endeavour to blemish their Reputations attempt to render these Gentlemen as immoral and vile as we are yet without all peradventure the Envy Hatred Malice Lying Spiritual-Pride Beastiality Deceit and Treachery too commonly approv'd and practis'd among Dissenters do by as many Grains out-weigh the smaller Infirmities and Failures of the Church of England as the solemn and deliberate Crimes of riper Years do the Extravagancies of inadverting Youth Whoever was the Composer we shall hardly dance after his Pipe He has set a fairer Copy than the Dissenters of Scydromedia will transcribe in one day In compliance with their Temper I 'll try if I can spoil the Musick blot and blur the Book to make it less valuable For though I cannot discover the Author I have found out 2. Secondly The Errours of the Book which I intend to bring in as Evidence against it I should begin at the wrong End a preposterous Method is most agreeable to all our Proceedings 'T is very true of Making Books there 's no End This is not the first time our choice Friends have been read in Print and cannot be the last I doubt not but we shall daily afford fresh Matter for ingenious Men or Women to try their Wits on Oh! If we had truly fear'd God and kept his Commandments we had never been troubled to answer this Untoward Book It may not be judg'd a Matter of Imprudence in entring first upon the Conclusion of it there being but here and there a little in the Body and substantial Part but what 's too firm and unanswerable However at present we 'll call it a silly vain scurrillous Pamphlet meriting not so much Regard as the bare reading it amounts to let the Church-men say what they will of the Validity of its Arguments of the Truth of its History That this Conference has done the Church of England Right and the Inhabitants of Scydromedia no Wrong there are yet some Errata's or Mistakes to be retracted or amended in the next Edition else by my Consent it shall never pass Muster amongst the Saints But for the better Satisfaction of the World and that Truth and Justice may take place the COURT has impanell'd a Jury of several Persuasions that the Book with the Persons and Matters therein represented may have fair Play The Jury indifferently chosen are Five Church-men Four Presbyterians Four Independents and Four Quakers Honest Men and True stand together and hear your Charge viz. Judge A late bold Pamphlet call'd The Best Choice for Religion and Government written in favour of Church and King questioning the Reputation of the Saints under the Names of Latitudinarians Presbyterians Independents Seekers c. who have here put themselves upon this Trial of Truth You are to enquire therefore without Favour or Malice Whether Guilty or not Guilty And to take special Care before Verdict given That you duly and impartially consider the Matters and Things urg'd on both Sides that Sentence may pass accordingly You Gentlemen of the Jury I am farther to inform you that the Matters in Question are Matters of Fact whereof You are the proper Judges Attend then First To the Evidence for the Saints drawn out of the Errours and Insufficiencies of that Book no less than Fourteen of ' em Mr. Mouth complains of the Book for Flattery and Untruth His Father was no Committee-Man in the late Blessed Times of Plunder and Rapine He was one of your honest Sequestrators one of those conscientious Men that first seiz'd and then took away the Goods of Church and Kingdom Religiously converting them to better and more holy Uses leaving a well-gotten Inheritance to his Children We have an English Proverb Bless'd is the Son whose Father goes to the Devil true enough of such Fathers who swell'd with Pride hardned with other Vices and given over to Invincible Prejudice Invincible Perverseness do seldom end with True
that truly fears God ought most carefully to avoid The Church of England loves Religion and Goodness in all Men and declares there 's nothing more Valuable in the World but cannot excuse the Body of Dissenters from being the Occasion of many Impieties in the Nation Their very Separation destroys the true Spirit of Religion which is Charity it le ts loose great Numbers who cannot govern themselves moving them to live Atheists or Idolaters to pour Contempt upon the whole Church of Christ confirms Men in their evil Courses and exposes the Church as a Prey to the Common Enemy Gentlemen give me leave to say That to propose Maintenance of Charity and all Virtue by overthrowing the Church is as improbable a Project as his who in Henry the Seventh's time propos'd a Rebellion without Breach of the Peace When the Government of King and Bishop was subverted there were presently as many Religions as Men monstrous Swarms of Errors and Heresies broke in upon us more than had been before known in the Church of God and upon this an Inundation of all sorts of Wickedness over-spread the Land So horrible was the Effect that one of their own Authors tells us That for many hundred Years there had not been a Party pretending Godliness Tenderness of Conscience Strictness above other Men as this Party did that has been guilty of so many Sins horrible Wickedness provoking Abominations as they are Hell seem'd to be broke loose to have invaded all Quarters in despite of their Covenant and all the little Schemes of their so-much-magnified Reformation That they have overpass'd the Deeds of the Prelates justified the Bishops in whose Time never so many nor so great Errors were heard of much less such Blasphemies and Confusions We have worse things amongst us more corrupt Doctrines and unheard-of Practices than ever were in all the Bishops days Our Reformation is become a Deformation We first put down the Common-Prayer and then some put down the very Scriptures slighting and blaspheming them Some cast down Bishops and their Officers others cast to the Ground all Ministers and all the Reformed Churches Some had cast out the Ceremonies in the Sacraments others had cast out the Sacraments themselves With abundance more too tedious to repeat Another of their Authors tells the Parliament in a Sermon That the Covenant cries God grant not against you for the Reformation of the Kingdom the Extirpation of Heresies Schisms Profaneness c. These Impieties abound as if we had taken a Covenant to maintain them since it was taken These Sins which we have Covenanted against have more abounded than in the space of ten times so many Years before Another makes this Remark That one of the Fruits of this Blessed Parliament and of those two Sectaries Presbyterians and Independents is That they have made more Jews and Atheists than are in all Europe besides Gentlemen of the Jury You may see by what means it was that this Nation came to be pester'd with Opinions and Practices beyond the Example of former Ages to the infinite Prejudice and dishonour of our Religion and Nation You may guess what a blessed Reformation we may expect from the Ruine of the Church The same Causes set on foot by the same Principles will eternally produce the same Effects And tho' Men at first may mean never so well yet Temptations will insensibly grow upon them and Accidents occur which in the Progress may carry them infinitely beyond the Line of their first Intention and engage them in such Courses out of which when they come to discern their Errour it may be too late for them to retire Diss Advoc. 'T is in vain to plead against Matters of Fact but I would have you know our Dissenters are more for Spirit and Truth more modest and peaceable than those of that Time we are more conformable to the Laws less turbulent and offensive to Government and generally speaking did we believe that our Schism or Separation from the Church was a Sin or the Occasion of Sin we should no longer remain in the Practice of it but presently join with the Church and never more forsake her Communion Ch. Advoc. You may guess at the Spirit and Temper of the Dissenters by their obstinate and indefatigable Stiffness in Opposing the Church Let the World judge let themselves be Judges in this Case When the Church requires no Popish no Antichristian Terms of Communion when the Dissenters can offer no Argument that has not been abundantly answer'd they entrench themselves within their strongest Holds of Stiffness and Resolution never never to yield tho' they are sufficiently convinc'd and baffl'd If the Dissenters have any thing more of Moderation and Peace than appear'd in the late Times of Anarchy and Confusion we are oblig'd to the Church the Pillar and Ground of Truth and to the Civil and Ecclesiastical Laws that lay some restraint upon them But once remove This Church or quite let loose the Reins of Government and we shall soon find what manner of Spirit does influence these Men. The first Race of Dissenters were far more for Unity and Peace than these are they meddl'd not with Things out of their Line nor mixt themselves with Matters of State All they desir'd was to have no Violence offer'd to their Consciences When they could not conform as Ministers they did as Private Christians Men that were most eminent amongst 'em for Learning Piety Preaching Writing Experience and Fame have done more towards the Unity of the Church than our Modern Dissenters do at this day They have own'd our Communion lawful they have receiv'd the Communion kneeling they have bred up their Children to the Ministry of the Church they have join'd in the Liturgy they have been married according to the Form of it The ancient Nonconformists would not separate tho' they feared to subscribe But now the Government has been so kind to settle Liberty of Conscience by a Law our Conscionable Men turn their Backs upon the Church and make no scruple tho' by causeless Separation to cut themselves off from its Communion not considering that nothing next to the Glory of God shou'd be more heartily desir'd and endeavour'd by all Men than the Unity and Peace of the Church and consequently there 's scarce a greater Sin than Schism is that rends and divides it A Sin if you believe the ancient Fathers that shuts Men out of Heaven a Sin that cannot be expiated by the Blood of Martyrdom This is the Sense which the best and most pious Christians that ever liv'd had of it That 't is better to suffer any thing than that the Church of God shou'd be rent asunder That 't is every whit as glorious and a far greater Martyrdom to die for not dividing the Church than for refusing to sacrifice to Idols That a Person going from Church to Schismaticks tho' in that capacity he should die for Christ yet can he not receive the
be Impiety because 't is prosperous and permitted that is not hinder'd by Force and Violence inconsistent with a free Moral Agent then the Great Sultan and the Great Cham and the Great Mogull as well as the Great Bishop of Rome are by an equal Sound-Consequence the greatest Favourites of Heaven And then the Argument of Symmachus had been unanswerably conclusive against the Primitive Christians who for 300 Years and upwards lay groaning under the Yoke of the Heathens Tyranny or Lastly If Permission were still a Mark of Approbation then Dionysius or Diagoras had argu'd logically well when having robb'd the Delphick Temple and immediately after escap'd a Shipwrack He gave it out that the Gods had approv'd his Sacrilege Not at all that he believ'd but laugh'd at Providence Riches and Prosperity are not always Blessings to the Enjoyers of them but very often bestow'd on the worst of Men to their hurt The Divine Wisdom reserving a better Reward for his dearest Servants in the World Presb. and Indep My Lord We are not satisfi'd that our dividing and separating from the Church of England deserves so bad a Name as that of Schism if it does we must expect a very severe Sentence and the Court must be justifi'd in its Proceedings against us Judge You have had enough offer'd before by the Church's Advocate but to leave the Matter more clear take the Judgment of your Principal Men who when time was reason'd thus against those that subdivided from them If we be a Church of Christ and Christ hold Communion with us why do you separate from us If we be the Body of Christ do not they that separate from the Body separate from the Head also If the Apostle calls those Divisions of the Church of Corinth wherein Christians did not separate into divers formed Congregations in the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper Schisms 1 Cor. 1. 10. may not your Secession from us and professing you cannot join with us as Members and setting up Congregations of another Communion be more properly call'd Schism You gather Churches together out of your Churches and set up Churches in an opposite Way to our Churches and all this you do voluntarily and unwarrantably not having any sufficient Cause for it In the same Book they tell us of a Twofold Schism Negative and Positive Negative when Men do peaceably and quietly withdraw from Communion with a Church from which they are departed The other is when Persons withdrawing do consociate and withdraw themselves into a distinct and opposite Body setting up a Church against a Church which say they Camero calls a Schism by way of Eminence And farther tells us there are Four Causes that make a Separation from a Church lawful 1. When they that separate are grievously and intolerably persecuted 2. When the Church they separate from is Heretical 3. When 't is Idolatrous 4. When 't is the Seat of Antichrist And where none of these Four are found there the Separation is insufficient and Schism Now we are fully assur'd that none of these Four Causes can be charg'd upon our Congregations Therefore you must not be displeas'd with us if we blame you as guilty of positive Schism All which is as true now as it was then and as applicable to us and them and it was to them and their Dissenters The Presbyterians and Independents are indeed more guilty of Schism in separating from the truly Apostolical Church of England than they could be in dividing from each other Seekers But we think there are some things in the Constitution of that Church might be contriv'd to better Purposes and we would find out a Church that needs no Amendment no Alteration Judge Then you must be of no Church on this side Heaven you seek in vain because such Perfection is not in this World yet as great a Degree of it in the Church of England as in any Church or Congregation on Earth and for ought yet appears much greater But that every suppos'd Corruption in a Church is not a sufficient Ground of Separation or Warrant enough to rend and tear the Church in pieces Let Mr. Calvin judge between us who says That where-ever the Word of God is duly preach'd and reverently attended to and the true Use of the Sacraments kept up there is the plain Appearance of a True Church whose Authority no Man may safely despise or reject its Admonitions or resist its Counsel or set at nought its Discipline much less separate from it and violate its Unity For that our Lord has so great a Regard to the Communion of his Church That he accounts him an Apostate from his Religion who obstinately separates from any Christian Society which keeps up the true Ministry of the Word and Sacraments That such a Separation is a Denial of God and of Christ And that 't is a dangerous and pernicious Temptation so much as to think of separating from such a Church the Communion whereof is never to be rejected so long as it continues in the true use of the Word and Sacraments Though otherwise it be overrun with many Blemishes and Corruptions Which is as plain and full a Determination of the Case as if he particularly design'd it against the Doctrine and Practice of the Modern Dissenters from our Church Quak. I hope the Nation will yet believe us to be very honest harmless Men who deal fairly and kindly with all Persons never oppressing griping or defrauding any Man we are at a Word avoid abundance of that vain unnecessary Talk which others use in Trading and therefore I humbly desire that the Court would acquit us Judge You have forfeited much of that good Opinion that the Nation once had of you and all the Riches you boasted of were gotten by Peoples Credulity trusting you too much before they try'd you All your Religion is now dwindled into a bare Pretence of Honesty which at best is not equal to that of the more Ancient Heathens Your YEA or NAY your Single Word shall bite as much as a Thousand a Lye may soon be told and if the World complains of you for any Dishonesty in over-reaching or deceiving your Neighbours all is put off with your Spiritual Distinction 'T is not say you downright Cheating of Men but a sanctifi'd Out-witting 'em which is own'd and practised amongst you Presbyt My Lord We have two or three Gentlemen to produce in our Vindication Judge Who are they Presbyt St. Hierome Aerius and Honest John Calvin The first says That Bishop and Presbyter are all one The second That they differ nothing in Order Dignity and Power And the last was so offended with Episcopacy That he threw out the Bishop of Geneva and turn'd the Name of Bishop into that of Superintendent and under that Title He and his Godly Successours have there about one hundred Years govern'd that Church Judge Hierome must be a Saint now for letting fall one single Sentence in favour of the Presbyterians But